Fall of Republican Africa

175
Fall of Republican Africa

Losing to Caesar battle of Pharsalus (August 9, 48 BC), Pompey went to Egypt. Here, according to the will of King Ptolemy XII, his 13-year-old son and 18-year-old daughter ruled. According to the custom of this country, they entered into a marriage, which, however, due to the difference in age, was still purely nominal. The boy ascended the throne under the name of Ptolemy XIII, his sister and wife was the famous Cleopatra.

Caesar is wasting time


At the beginning of October 48 BC. e. Caesar appeared in Alexandria, to whom the advisers of the young king presented the head of Pompey. According to historians, Caesar was not at all happy with such a gift. This is how Legnani depicted this episode in his painting in 1793:




However, it is very likely that the dictator simply skillfully played out his sadness over the death of his former son-in-law.

Meanwhile, the situation in Egypt was tense to the limit, since the tutor of the new king, Potin, decided to get rid of the overly ambitious Cleopatra and marry his ward to his other sister, Arsinoe.


Ptolemy XIII and Pothinus in the film "Cleopatra", 1963. In fact, Ptolemy was a full-blooded and probably fair-haired Macedonian, and Pothinus was a Greek

Another Greek, Apollodorus, Cleopatra's tutor, organized her flight, and then the famous meeting with Caesar, to whose chambers the young queen, according to Plutarch, was delivered in a laundry bag. This seemed to the writers too prosaic and boring (indeed: the great queen - and suddenly some kind of bag with dirty laundry!), And therefore a spectacular scene of the appearance of the queen from a rolled carpet was invented.


Frame from the film "Cleopatra", 1963

Taking advantage of the will of Ptolemy XII, who appointed Rome as the guarantor of the fulfillment of his will, Caesar intervened in Egyptian affairs, which led to a war that lasted 8 months and a fire that destroyed the famous Library of Alexandria. In the meantime, Caesar easily suppressed the rebellion of Pharnak, the son of the king of Pontus Mithridates, in Asia Minor, giving rise to the famous aphorism "I came, I saw, I conquered." He also traveled along the Nile, enjoying the luxury, divine honors and caresses of the grateful and far-sighted Cleopatra.

Republicans in Africa


Meanwhile, the Republicans were preparing for a new war with him - this time in the province of Africa, which Publius Attius Var managed to defend, having entered into an alliance with the Numidian king Yuba. Thirsty for revenge opponents of Caesar gathered here. Among them were very famous and talented people. For example, Mark Porcius Cato the Younger is a Stoic philosopher who previously held the positions of military tribune and popular tribune, quaestor, propraetor and praetor. Few people had such high authority in Rome.


Denarius of Cato, 47-46 years. BC e.

Titus Labienus is a former associate of Caesar, and one of the most talented, who twice replaced him as commander in Britain and Gaul. Labien joined Pompey after Caesar crossed the Rubicon. Participated in the Battle of Pharsalus, where he commanded the cavalry.

Lucius Aphranius previously ruled the province of Near Hispania.

Mark Petreus - former praetor, was governor of Lusitania.

Among the republicans was Faustus Cornelius Sulla, the son of the famous dictator. And many other people, lesser known and famous.

The new head of the Republican Party was Metellus Scipio, a former consul, father of the last wife of Pompey the Great.


Coin with the inscription "Scipio Emperor"

There were also the sons of Pompey, the eldest of whom, however, soon went to raise Spain against Caesar. In Africa, even the Senate met - there were 300 senators.

The Pompeians were building up their forces. Attia Varus already had three legions. Now, from the Roman colonists, refugees from Spain, Greece, Sicily, Sardinia, freedmen and local residents, four more were recruited (according to other sources - five). There was a heavy cavalry of Gauls, Germans - about 1600 people. The light cavalry was recruited from Libya. The troops of the Numidian king Yuba, allied to the republicans, numbered up to 30 thousand heavily armed infantrymen, about 20 thousand horsemen, many lightly armed soldiers and shooters. There were also 120 war elephants in it. Scipio was especially happy with the elephants, he even found time for personal participation in their preparation and training. The anonymous author of the work "African War" reports that the commander imitated an attack on elephants by "enemy" slingers, while "their" soldiers standing behind them also fired at them, preventing them from turning around and chasing the enemy.

The Numidian army was formed on the Roman model, and the king voluntarily ceded the supreme command to Metellus Scipio. Yuba himself was second in command.


Denarius of the king of Yuba with his image

In total, the army of Caesar's opponents reached 14 legions. The forces in Africa were very serious, the commanders of the Pompeians were experienced people and at the same time - the principled opponents of Caesar, who fought not for power, money and positions, but for ideas.

Caesar starts - and almost loses


At the beginning of December 47 BC. e. Caesar finally arrived in Sicily to lead the preparation of troops for war in Africa. For a new military campaign, he intended to use 10 legions. Without waiting for all of them to gather in Lilybaeum, Caesar crossed to Africa on December 25 with six legions and 2 thousand horsemen. Some of his ships were scattered over the sea, so that only 3 thousand infantrymen and 150 horsemen landed with him, with whom he occupied Ruspina (Monastir) and Leptis (Lemta). The rest of the ships with troops arrived here over the next three days. They say that, going ashore, Caesar fell, but, lying on the ground, exclaimed, addressing the soldiers, frozen by such an unkind sign:

"You are in my hands, Africa!"

Meanwhile, the very next day after Caesar's landing, Ruspina was approached by his old comrade-in-arms - Titus Labienus, and not alone, but at the head of a fairly large cavalry and light infantry. In the ensuing battle, some of Caesar's soldiers fled. They say that Caesar, who personally stopped the fugitives, took one of them by the neck, in whose hands was the Roman "eagle", and turned it 180 degrees with the words:

"There are enemies over there!"

Unfortunately for the Republicans, a horse was wounded near Labienus and threw him off his saddle. Labienus was carried away from the battlefield, and Petreus, who remained instead of him, being in euphoria, unexpectedly ordered an end to the pursuit, stating:

"We will not take away the victory from our general Scipio."

And Caesar managed to lead his soldiers to the camp.

Then his troops began to be greatly disturbed by Yuba's cavalry.

In general, Caesar, occupying only a narrow coastal strip, was in an extremely difficult situation, aggravated by the fact that his soldiers were short of supplies. His army received everything necessary only by sea from Sicily, but in insufficient quantities. Moreover, the Republicans had a strong fleet, which often intercepted Caesarian ships. The situation was especially difficult with horse food. Plutarch claims they were fed

"sea moss (algae?), washing off sea salt from it and adding a little grass as a seasoning."

In mid-January, the main enemy forces gathered at Ruspina. Metellus Scipio approached here with the main army, and the XIII and XIV legions arrived by sea to Caesar, and then another IX and X. Thus, the size of his army reached the planned one. In addition, Caesar managed to negotiate with the Moorish king Bokh, who attacked the possessions of Yuba and forced him to send most of the army to protect his lands. This greatly weakened his allies.

Battle of Thapsa


April 3, 46 B.C. e. Caesar led his army to Tapsu (now Ras Dimas), where the enemy's food depots were located. Scipio moved his troops there, on April 6 he set about setting up a camp between the sea and the salt marsh. The battle began unexpectedly for both him and Caesar, since the Roman soldiers went on the attack without permission. The first to go into battle was the 52th Legion of the Larks, formed by Caesar in Gaul in XNUMX BC. e. (at first he was not recognized by the Senate, and at first Caesar kept him at his own expense). Some believe that the name does not mean larks (Alaudae), but foreigners (from the Cimbrian allaid). In this case, the V legion will be "foreign". He was indeed the first legion not recruited from Roman citizens. But we digress, back to the battle of Tapsa. So, on the right flank of the V, the legion went into battle without permission, and it is claimed that the centurions, awaiting Caesar's order, even unsuccessfully tried to stop their subordinates. This came as a complete surprise to Scipio, and only part of the republican army managed to line up in battle formations. The "Larks" put the elephants to flight, which in battles can be equally dangerous for both foreign troops and their own army. And since then, the elephant has become the symbol of the V Legion.


Denarius of Mark Anthony, minted in honor of the legion "Larks"

The attack of the V Legion was supported by the troops of the center and the left flank. The Republican army fled, its camp captured with little or no resistance.


Battle of Thapsa, XNUMXth century engraving

Pompeians are said to have lost 10 men. Approximately the same number surrendered. The Caesarians captured 64 elephants.

The defeat of Caesar's opponents was complete. Lucius Aphranius and Faustus Cornelius Sulla, retreating, stumbled upon a detachment of Publius Sittius, were captured and executed. Cato, who led the Utica garrison, committed suicide. The Numidian king Yuba retreated to the pre-fortified city of Zama, where his family was located, and a treasury was also placed. Moreover, he prepared in advance in the central square of this city everything necessary for a huge fire, on which, in case of defeat, he intended to burn himself and burn his family and treasures. But here's the bad luck: the inhabitants of the city, who learned about the defeat of Yuba and his allies, refused to let him in. Apparently, they decided that it was extremely inexpedient to burn the accumulated wealth, and they could find another, more reasonable use. They even refused to give Yuba his wives, children and family members. After wandering around the country a little, Yuba decided to try to die beautifully and begged the Pompeian commander Mark Petreus, who was with him, to join him in a sword fight. Petreus easily defeated the king, after which he tried to pierce his chest with the same sword. However, he either did not dare, or he could not deal a strong enough blow to himself. I had to ask for the murder of a slave who was nearby.

Caesar annexed the "ownerless" possessions of Yuba to the Roman province of Africa (in fact, why should the good disappear?).

Metellus Scipio, who was trying to reach Spain, died by throwing himself overboard when his ship was overtaken by enemy ships. According to another version, Scipio committed suicide and his corpse was thrown overboard. More fortunate were Publius Attius Varus, Titus Labienus and Sextus Pompey, who managed to get to Spain. Varus and Labienus died in another battle with Caesar - at Munda, March 17, 45 BC. e.

Sextus Pompey became the head of the garrison of Korduba, after the defeat and death of his older brother, he led the resistance to Caesar's legates. Then, having captured Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica, for some time he very successfully resisted the second triumvirs - Octavian, Mark Antony and Lepidus. This will be discussed in a separate article.

And Caesar, returning to Rome, on September 21, 47 BC. e. celebrated four triumphs in a row: in honor of the victories over the Gauls, Egyptians, Pharnaces and Yuba. As you can see, he prudently did not celebrate the victories over the Roman citizens - Pompey and his associates. Among the noble captives who followed the dictator's chariot was Cleopatra's rival, her sister Arsinoe. And Cleopatra herself arrived in Rome in November of the same 46 BC. e.


Caesar waiting for Cleopatra. Another shot from the famous 1963 film.

Her appointment with Caesar turned out to be short-lived: already in December he went to Spain, which was captured by the eldest son of Pompey the Great and his full namesake, Gnaeus Pompey the Younger. Here Caesar will once again meet with his principal opponents, the last of the survivors - Publius Attius Varus and Titus Labienus. But we will talk about this in the next article.
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  1. +11
    17 October 2022 05: 28
    Good morning friends! smile

    ... on the right flank of the V, the legion went into battle without permission, and it is claimed that the centurions, who were waiting for Caesar's order, even unsuccessfully tried to stop their subordinates. This came as a complete surprise to Scipio...


    It was not for nothing that Peter the Great wrote in his "Articles": "Do not adhere to the rules, like a blind wall, because there the orders are written, but there are no times and cases."

    So the "Larks" did just that and won, and if they followed the charter and rules, it is still not known how the matter would end there and how the fate of people would have developed.

    Thank you, Valery! good

    1. +6
      17 October 2022 08: 36
      Once upon a time it is not necessary.
      Under Amphipolis, the unauthorized start of the battle ended in disaster.
      The legions of veterans won after all. Caesar's opponents had more than half of the troops in the second league.
      1. +6
        17 October 2022 09: 02
        Adrianople, not Amphipolis. Correcting belatedly
    2. +6
      17 October 2022 11: 37
      All the good days!
      For almost a dozen centuries of antiquity, elephants were a kind of "prodigy" commanders. Starting from the Indians in the company against Alexander the Great, they started and lost to their mother infantry, deceiving the expectations of their masters!
      1. +6
        17 October 2022 12: 32
        Battle of Ipsus, "Battle of the Elephants", Battle of Tunisia, Battle of Heraclea. The value of elephants from very large to decisive
        1. +4
          17 October 2022 19: 31
          Good evening, in fact, there was a "control" on the elephants: they threw boards with nails under their feet, the elephants wounded their legs and could not go forward. They arranged fiery streaks and or fired arrows with burning tow, frightened elephants rushed back and trampled on their infantry.
          Of course, not everyone could resist the salons like that, but only the most courageous and trained. In the army, such people were respected. It's like in the Second World War anti-tank gunners.
          1. +4
            17 October 2022 20: 09
            There were also pigs set on fire, rushing at elephants. Described by Polybius.
            Disciplined infantry killed elephants. This is the surest way.
            Ammian writes what a shock the elephants produced even on experienced soldiers during the retreat of the Russian army after the death of Julian. But gradually they got used to it and managed to kill a couple and frightened others with this.
            And so in the treatises it was advised to cut the trunk, give it to the eyes, etc.
            1. +2
              17 October 2022 20: 14
              I would like to know how to make such pigs manageable so that they would rush to the elephants)
              1. +1
                17 October 2022 20: 18
                No way. just a sleeve. And then they move forward. Or not quite forward. Polybius wrote that this was used once by the rebellious Carthaginian mercenaries and with success. From there he got into the novel Salammbò.
                There was something else like that in Asia, but I don’t remember the details
                The most unique cases. Maybe even fabulous, but Polybius is an authority.
                1. +3
                  17 October 2022 20: 30
                  I can hardly imagine building one on the battlefield during or immediately before the battle, the distance that the poor animal can run and another 100500 moments. Apart from the fact that the war elephant was probably accustomed to squeals, the roar of battles, various rushing animals (the same horses) ... and to fire, too, for sure.

                  And in general ... it is doubtful that the elephants were launched into the attack just like that in the first line without the cover of light infantry. All these tricks with attacks on elephants in various ways were probably well known to everyone and no one threw such valuable animals into battle without cover. There was a certain tactic no doubt ... well, something like now a tank under the cover of infantry)
                  1. +2
                    17 October 2022 20: 49
                    No need to build. Just a portable wattle fence.
                    About the elephants in the first line. It seems that they were in the very first place when they were replaced. Look too lazy. With Tunisia, it is also possible.
                  2. +3
                    17 October 2022 21: 52
                    And in general ... it is doubtful that the elephants were launched into the attack just like that in the first line without the cover of light infantry. All these tricks with attacks on elephants in various ways were probably well known to everyone and no one threw such valuable animals into battle without cover. There was a certain tactic no doubt ... well, something like now a tank under the cover of infantry)

                    Oh, the heroes of antiquity did not guess to breed fighting mice, and why not a weapon against elephants!
                    Now seriously, war elephants are primarily a psychological weapon.
        2. +3
          17 October 2022 21: 45
          Quote: Engineer
          Battle of Ipsus, "Battle of the Elephants", Battle of Tunisia, Battle of Heraclea. The value of elephants from very large to decisive

          I do not argue "elephants" - these are tanks of the ancient era! However, the elephants were also the King of the Feast, when he won his pyrope victory over Rome.
          In this battle, the first mention that the legionnaires used planks with nails against the elephants. The phalanx of Alexander the Great in the battle of the Indus chopped the trunks of elephants.
          So, with all the sea and fearlessness, elephants did not always bring victory to their masters.
      2. +4
        17 October 2022 12: 50
        I read with great interest how elephants were trained:

        The anonymous author of the work "African War" reports that the commander imitated an attack on elephants by "enemy" slingers, while "their" soldiers standing behind them also fired at them, preventing them from turning around and chasing the enemy.


        This has always been a mystery to me - how to make an elephant go where it is in danger, and it looks like it.
        I remember the magnificent attack of elephants in one of the episodes of "The Lord of the Rings". But there are elephants, of course, of fantastic size.
  2. +7
    17 October 2022 06: 54
    Violated the sequence of laying out articles. But the "Encyclopedia of World History" can be read from any page.

    Thank you, Valery!
    1. +11
      17 October 2022 08: 40
      Hello, Sergey! smile

      I found a whole bunch of Cleopatras here and, along the way, decided to lay it out. For every taste. wink



      1. VLR
        +11
        17 October 2022 09: 15
        The most interesting thing is that the first collage was made by me personally for the article "Last of the Ptolemies".


        This is the "cover" (or "splash screen") of this article. Performers of the role of Cleopatra: far left - Claudette Colbert, 1934, then - Vivien Leigh, 1945, Elizabeth Taylor, 1963, Monica Bellucci, 2002, Leonor Varela, 1999
        1. +7
          17 October 2022 10: 37
          The most interesting thing is that the first collage was made by me personally for the article "The Last of the Ptolemies"
          it means you have impudently taken away a great idea (copy-pasted) feel
          https://kulturologia.ru/blogs/021118/41145/
          1. VLR
            +11
            17 October 2022 10: 40
            Yes, the picture went for a walk on the Internet. Like many articles that go on some sites even without specifying the author.
            1. +5
              17 October 2022 10: 42
              It is old (2018), and they type signed the pictures of the sources (dismissed).
              And ideas ... well, the alphabet is from the same letters, that's a coincidence laughing
              1. +6
                17 October 2022 11: 20
                Quote: Deadush
                It is old (2018), and they type signed the pictures of the sources (dismissed).
                And ideas ... well, the alphabet is from the same letters, that's a coincidence laughing

                Composers are thinner - they only have 7 notes! laughing
                Thank you Valery!
                1. +7
                  17 October 2022 12: 59
                  Composers are worse - they only have 7 notes!

                  Two music students are talking:
                  - Why so thoughtful?
                  Yes, I can't write...
                  - Come on, take Bach, rewrite the notes on the contrary and that's it!
                  - Tried. My professor's tokats are obtained ...
            2. +1
              17 October 2022 21: 37
              Quote: VlR
              the picture went for a walk on the Internet. Like many articles that go on some sites even without specifying the author.

              Let them go better than any nonsense ...
        2. +6
          17 October 2022 10: 42
          Quote: VlR
          cover

          Greetings to you Valery!
          I will add a little. hi

        3. +7
          17 October 2022 13: 25
          I'm glad I accidentally reminded you. smile The collage, of course, is incomplete, there were several more "Cleopatras" and among them a very funny Theda Bara

          1. +5
            17 October 2022 13: 41
            Quote: Sea Cat
            funny

            Hello my friend!
            Funny today. Can you remember Vera Kholodnaya? Well, the criteria for beauty have shifted for more than a hundred years, they have shifted. fellow
            1. +4
              17 October 2022 14: 00
              Seryozha, hi! smile

              Yes, I'm more about the naivety that emanates from the characters and plots of the films of that time, there is something childishly touching in this. Don't you find? Yes
              1. +3
                17 October 2022 14: 12
                Quote: Sea Cat
                . Don't you find?

                Of course. These are the first steps of cinema. Some legacy of the theater.
          2. +4
            17 October 2022 19: 09
            Cleopatra of Decadence. On an esoteric craving.
            Was the movie silent? So it was required to portray with a glance.
            1. +2
              17 October 2022 19: 33
              No, I understand everything, but why scare people like that! laughing
              1. +5
                17 October 2022 19: 59
                Who knew that the descendants would be so shy.
                1. +4
                  17 October 2022 20: 13
                  "Maybe I was afraid of Chamberlain" (c) recourse
                  1. +4
                    17 October 2022 20: 29
                    “If Nikanor Ivanovich’s lips were to be put to Ivan Kuzmich’s nose, and if I could take some of the swagger that Baltazar Baltazarych has, and, perhaps, add Ivan Pavlovich’s corpulence to this, then I would immediately decide” (c).
                    1. 0
                      18 October 2022 14: 39
                      She's to blame, she's to blame for everything.
                      You still want to justify yourself.
                      So why, why on this dark night
                      Did you let yourself be kissed?
                      So why, why on this dark night
                      Did you let yourself be kissed?
        4. +4
          17 October 2022 14: 26
          Beluchi has a pensive look
          I may be biased, but Colbert has something lustful in her face.
          I don't like them, :potential rival
      2. +5
        17 October 2022 10: 15
        Konstantin, which one do you like?
        I liked the central (black and white) she has a beautiful figure.
        Vera and I once said that beauty contests, the jury should also include women: we are very picky about the appearance of other women.
        Vera, I read somewhere that in Saudi Arabia, they hold a beauty contest, but the jury is made up of only women.
        It seems that the condition: the jury members must be older than the participants
        1. +7
          17 October 2022 10: 46
          Quote from lisikat2
          Vera and I once said that beauty contests, the jury should also include women: we are very picky about the appearance of other women.

          And this is where it starts!!! bully bully bully
          1. +7
            17 October 2022 11: 43
            And this is where it starts!!! bully bully bully

            Yeah, by direct, secret voting, it was decided to expel the winners of the beauty contest 2020 from the village!
            Or…
            Ladies from the jury, they chose a miss from their composition. Only five, according to the number of members of the commission!!!
            I can still give my dad options, but I'm afraid they will send me to the ban.
            1. +5
              17 October 2022 12: 57
              but I'm afraid they will send me to the ban.

              And what is there!
              Such competitions, which you are talking about, are quite official, though not with us.
              This is me about the bad, about what the Carthaginian priestesses hunted in ancient times wassat )))
          2. +8
            17 October 2022 13: 30
            And this is where it starts!!! bully bully bully


            Yeah, women's "matinee"! laughing laughing laughing

          3. +5
            17 October 2022 19: 39
            Sergei, hi. Don't talk there just from the looks, the fire will start.
            PS. I remember how our "Amazons" exchanged "courtesies", and now. So blessed that the soul sings
        2. +7
          17 October 2022 12: 11
          Quote from lisikat2
          Vera, I read somewhere that in Saudi Arabia, they hold a beauty contest, but the jury is made up of only women.

          The idea itself is not a bad idea, especially for Saudis who practice polygamy.
          In our reality, I would form the jury as follows: the jury consists of married couples, and for each couple there is only one vote for two. Only couples who have been married for at least ten years can participate. That will be objective! laughing
          1. +7
            17 October 2022 13: 34
            That will be objective!


            Yes, it's just natural sadism! laughing
            1. +6
              17 October 2022 14: 06
              Fine, Uncle Kostya. smile The spouses' discussion of the merits of the contestants is a separate show for which the people will pay. laughing
              1. +6
                17 October 2022 18: 36
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Fine, Uncle Kostya. smile The spouses' discussion of the merits of the contestants is a separate show for which the people will pay. laughing

                Entrance with rolling pins is prohibited!!!
                1. +1
                  17 October 2022 19: 15
                  Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Fine, Uncle Kostya. smile The spouses' discussion of the merits of the contestants is a separate show for which the people will pay. laughing

                  Entrance with rolling pins is prohibited!!!

                  The discussion of the article smoothly shifted to a discussion of items that beauty contest jury members can use to defend their candidacy. lol
          2. +5
            17 October 2022 13: 44
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            The jury consists of married couples, and for each couple there is only one vote for two.

            There is no guarantee that they will come to a consensus. Everything will depend on * who is in charge in the house ??? *. In a word, not an option. bully
            Good day Michael!
            1. +6
              17 October 2022 14: 04
              And if they do not come to a consensus, we will fine. Ruble. This issue is well resolved. smile
          3. +4
            17 October 2022 18: 34
            Only couples who have been married for at least ten years can participate. That will be objective! laughing

            Uh-huh, in a similar situation, I would start to worry about my little eyes, hairs and beard from participation in such a holiday!
        3. +8
          17 October 2022 12: 25
          Good afternoon, Katya! love

          I liked the central (black and white) she has a beautiful figure.


          This is Sophia Loren, good, of course, but too sexy. laughing
          1. +3
            17 October 2022 12: 37
            Konstantin, but you did not say: which one do you like
            1. +4
              17 October 2022 13: 16
              Konstantin, but you did not say: which one do you like


              I like my Masha. love
              1. +3
                17 October 2022 14: 14
                However, you are a sly one. As Vera says: "It's nice for me, as a woman"
                1. +5
                  17 October 2022 14: 27
                  However, you are smart


                  No, just when you love cunning is no longer necessary. smile
          2. +3
            18 October 2022 20: 40
            This is Sophia Loren, good, of course, but too sexy. laughing
            Can there be a measure of sexuality? It is too early to talk about this until a unit of measurement has been introduced. I say this as a representative of the department of measuring equipment and metrology. For starters - sophie
            1. +3
              18 October 2022 20: 43
              Can there be a measure of sexuality?


              I meant what is commonly referred to as a "sex bomb", in the señora it overflows. wink drinks
              1. +3
                18 October 2022 21: 15
                Quote: Sea Cat
                senora, it overflows.

                And if you imagine her in the role of the wife of an ordinary Soviet person? Somehow in the sixty-fifth year? Yes, dragging two shopping bags with groceries from the store? And even if her faithful ordinary Soviet person, after receiving an advance on the horns, crawled home? Yes, the son again from school has a diary with three Did you bring him * in twos? Yes, his classy Mary Petrovna on Friday, poor and unhappy, but damn sexy Sophia want to see? Solid surrealism. laughing
                1. +2
                  18 October 2022 21: 37
                  And if you imagine her as the wife of an ordinary Soviet man?

                  This is not even a fantasy, but something from the transcendent reality. No, let her remain who she is and where she is.

                  I'll come, put the soup,
                  I'll wipe the linoleum
                  I'll make Vaska wash,
                  Katya snot in the morning.
                  The husband comes to darkness sullen,
                  Carrying the belly in front
                  In a tracksuit
                  Goes to TV.


                  She wouldn't even have a nightmare like that. And it is not necessary.
                  1. +3
                    19 October 2022 06: 44
                    She cooked soup for ten years, she washed clothes for ten years,
                    Ten years in the queues I got the sausage,
                    For ten years I taught top-secret something,
                    For ten years I sat at the window at work,
                    Grinding the heart into blood, for ten years the child raised -
                    What's left for love? A year and a half from strength.
                    1. +2
                      19 October 2022 06: 50
                      The city is captured. Such is fate.
                      But I will come to you in a dream. Bare-haired.
                      There is one reason, but forever:
                      Didn't like it, no more questions?
                2. +2
                  18 October 2022 21: 42
                  And if you imagine her as the wife of an ordinary Soviet man?
                  I remembered the dialogue that my supervisor told me. It was in those same 60s. The block for the product did not want to fit into the allotted dimensions, to which the leader of this development began to demand a change in dimensions. The general weightily stated: “I may also want Sophia Loren in my bed, but I proceed from the existing realities. So you proceed from what is, and you will dream later when you do the work.”
                3. Fat
                  0
                  20 October 2022 15: 21
                  wassat It's very good, put it on the chest of drawers...
              2. +3
                18 October 2022 21: 33
                in the señora it overflows.
                That's what I'm talking about. Suitable for primary standard. To her Paris, to the Chamber of Weights and Measures! Although there is a competitor there - Bardo, they will find out who is more standard.
      3. +7
        17 October 2022 12: 05
        Hi Konstantin! Is this the Best Cleopatra contest? Who is on the jury?
        1. +6
          17 October 2022 13: 18
          Is this the Best Cleopatra contest? Who is on the jury?


          Mark Antony and Julius Caesar. There may be others that we don't know about. laughing
          1. +4
            17 October 2022 14: 59
            Ah, it turns out, on what basis they are selected in the jury. You can't argue with practice.
            1. +5
              17 October 2022 15: 10
              So this is the truest principle - until you try it yourself, you will not know anything.
              Practice is great! wink laughing

              1. Fat
                +4
                17 October 2022 15: 30
                hi Greetings Konstantin. Picked up pictures from Assassin's Creed "Origins"



                On this last one, from left to right, Appolodorus, Caesar, and Cleopatra VII Philopator

                And here is also Ptolemy XIII Philopator and "initiates" in masks smile
                1. +4
                  17 October 2022 15: 56
                  Hi Andrew! smile

                  Picked up pictures from Assassin's Creed "Origins"


                  Haven't played and probably won't, not mine. smile



                  And the girl's face is rough. request

                  PS I tried to upload a picture twice, both times they wrote to me that I was expressing myself unacceptably. wassat He went berserk and renamed the abracadabra that was in "tyutyu", loaded into a half kick. You can rush! laughing
                  1. Fat
                    +2
                    17 October 2022 16: 27
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    Haven't played and probably won't, not mine.

                    It's clear. It was interesting because the game has great reconstructions (as it turned out, the locations can be visited without enemies). God forbid repeat it in the coming years (It took me over 150 hours to complete the game). laughing
                    1. +4
                      17 October 2022 16: 34
                      (It took me over 150 hours to complete the game).


                      Well you have patience... smile drinks
                      1. Fat
                        +1
                        20 October 2022 15: 36
                        Here you go. Having shown "patience" Well, no! Went and took... laughing
              2. +5
                17 October 2022 19: 13
                Even the chief physician of the hospital
                Loves Olya, the right word,
                For the fifth year already, as he loves,
                Just don't get married.
                1. +4
                  17 October 2022 19: 32
                  I'm good, good, but badly dressed.
                  Nobody marries a girl for that.
                  1. +4
                    17 October 2022 19: 58
                    Hooligan, so hooligan.

                    Don't marry girls, it's no good
                    1. +4
                      17 October 2022 20: 24
                      Honey before the wedding and then
                      Radish with horseradish and kvass.
                      Like a driven horse
                      And with a twisted tail.
                      1. +4
                        17 October 2022 20: 32
                        "On the floor were people and skins,
                        They sang songs, drank honey - and then
                        Troubadours blew their trumpets in the palace,
                        Grab the arrow! - and dragged to the palace "(c).
                      2. +1
                        18 October 2022 14: 35
                        Rash, harmonica! Rash, my frequent!
                        Drink, otter! Drink!
                        I'd rather be that busty one over there
                        She's dumber.
                      3. +1
                        18 October 2022 20: 24
                        Well, let's suppose, Mr. Feldkurat, you answered - you need a blonde, long-legged, widow, without education. In ten minutes she will be in your bed with a birth certificate.
                      4. +1
                        18 October 2022 20: 41
                        - What have I done? Did I do something? I wasn't
                        drunk!
                        - To the position of the riza, - answered Schweik, - to smithereens,
                        mister feldkurat, to the green serpent

                      5. +1
                        18 October 2022 21: 21
                        Wine has virtues, they say, healing
                        I decided to try - I took the bottle, opened it ...
                        Suddenly something obscene got out:
                        Maybe a green serpent, or maybe a crocodile!
                      6. +1
                        18 October 2022 21: 31
                        And I’m being treated by the Stolichnaya personally,
                        So I don’t get mad:
                        The source said that "Metropolitan"
                        Very good for strontium!


                        If you believe anyone, then only the stoker. laughing drinks
          2. +4
            17 October 2022 18: 37
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Is this the Best Cleopatra contest? Who is on the jury?


            Mark Antony and Julius Caesar. There may be others that we don't know about. laughing

            By the way, they both lost!
            1. +6
              17 October 2022 19: 06
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Is this the Best Cleopatra contest? Who is on the jury?


              Mark Antony and Julius Caesar. There may be others that we don't know about. laughing


              By the way, they both lost!


      4. +2
        18 October 2022 18: 15
        But Cleopatra Sophia Loren is a standard and a classic, like Sherlock Holmes Livanova)
        1. +2
          18 October 2022 18: 31
          Cleopatra Sophia Loren is a standard and a classic

          Perhaps I somehow didn’t think about it, but the film, in my opinion, is evaluated as a whole, and the work of the director and cameraman in the first place, although the choice of the performer for the main role is of great importance.
          1. +3
            18 October 2022 18: 41
            but the film, in my opinion, is evaluated in its entirety,
            In my opinion, the film is primarily evaluated as a spectacle.
            1. +1
              18 October 2022 19: 35
              I'm saying the whole thing. And no matter how "serious" the film is, it is in any case a spectacle. But sometimes designed for very different audiences.
              1. +1
                18 October 2022 19: 45
                I have a very precise attitude towards cinematography. If I liked a film as a spectacle, I watch it many times, evaluating the work of the director, actors, cameraman and other miners, up to the "picture director" - this is the most responsible person in the project.
                1. +2
                  18 October 2022 19: 51
                  up to the "picture director" - this is the most responsible person in the project.

                  And almost always with a very interesting surname... laughing

                  1. +1
                    18 October 2022 19: 56
                    "I knew you were a racist!")))
                    1. +2
                      18 October 2022 20: 08
                      "I knew you were a racist!")))


                      1. +2
                        18 October 2022 20: 14
                        Yeah, these are also "ethnic critics"
                      2. +2
                        18 October 2022 20: 34
                        Well, just let it go...



                        But there were times...

  3. Fat
    +5
    17 October 2022 07: 30
    hi Valeri.
    Caesar, returning to Rome, September 21, 47 BC. e. celebrated four triumphs in a row: in honor of the victories over the Gauls, Egyptians, Pharnaces and Yuba.
    .Somewhat strange it would be to arrange a triumph before victory, don't you think?
    Thanks, Valery. I read it with great pleasure, especially since the action of Assassin's Creed "Origins" takes place at this particular time. The episode with Cleopatra in the carpet in the game is very colorful. smile
    1. +8
      17 October 2022 10: 50
      Quote: Thick
      It would be somewhat strange to arrange a triumph before victory, don't you think?

      Greetings Borisych!
      The history of our rulers teaches nothing. I mean the recent rally-concert in the capital. bully
      1. Fat
        +6
        17 October 2022 11: 00
        Greetings, Sergey. As for Valery's article, he simply made a mistake on the number. And let's just not discuss the rally with a concert - perhaps for the inhabitants of the new regions of Russia it was very important, although IMHO it is premature.
        1. +4
          17 October 2022 12: 37
          Quote: Thick
          we won't discuss

          Yes, of course not. Not the time, and not the place. It is so, as an example, that history lessons are not a decree for anyone. Just. hi
      2. +4
        17 October 2022 12: 56
        Sergey, (?) Archi Phil: "History is the best teacher. Who has the worst students" (M. Gandhi)
        1. +4
          17 October 2022 13: 18
          Quote from lisikat2
          Sergey, (?)

          Sergey,(!) laughing
          Quote from lisikat2
          history is the best teacher. Who has the worst students "(M. Gandhi)

          Gandhi's opinion can and should be heeded. hi
  4. +7
    17 October 2022 07: 35
    You are in my hands, Africa!
    Having fallen, Julius, grabbed handfuls of sand, in fact
  5. +4
    17 October 2022 07: 39
    Good morning everyone.
    "it seemed too prosaic and boring to the bilirists," or maybe they reasoned like this: what the hell is a bag for dirty laundry, is Caesar's bedroom a laundry room? Expensive carpet, in Caesar's bedroom, is more appropriate ...
    By the way, why did they bring it.
    And the legs go weak?
    1. +6
      17 October 2022 07: 49
      And the legs go weak?
      And there, there was access control, by QR code, but she didn’t have it. smile
      1. +3
        17 October 2022 08: 25
        Wow it's like. So Caesar invented the kiar code?
        1. +6
          17 October 2022 08: 33
          So Caesar invented the kiar code
          Nothing new under the sun smile
    2. +4
      17 October 2022 09: 08
      “I didn’t go in with my legs,” apparently because the palace face control didn’t let her through to Caesar.
    3. +7
      17 October 2022 10: 52
      Quote from lisikat2
      And the legs go weak?

      Do you remember the song from the repertoire of *Golden Ring*?
      * .... How can I get home. * (c) laughing laughing laughing
      1. +6
        17 October 2022 12: 08
        Where did cherry orchards come from in Egypt?
        Is that some version of the Gardens of Babylon.
        1. Fat
          +4
          17 October 2022 13: 45
          In Cyrenaica, if not cherry, then cherry orchards could well be ... A suitable climate.
          Ptolemy Apion, having died without heirs in 96 BC, bequeathed Cyrenaica to the Roman Republic.
          Praetorian Prefecture of the East, and Diocese of Egypt
          The Latin name Cyrenaica (or Cyrenica) refers to the first century BC. The eastern part of the province, which did not have large settlements, was called Marmarica, the more important western part was known as Pentapolis, since it included five cities: Cyrene with its port of Apollonia, Arsinoe or Taucheira, Evesperides or Berenice, Balagrae and Barsa.
          Partly this region is located in the northeast of Libya, partly - the northwest of modern Egypt
          1. +4
            17 October 2022 15: 02
            I heard that Ancient Rome took taxes (tribute) from Cyrene with a plant of sylphs. This is one type of ferula. So they completely wiped out the population. But the image of Sylphus on the coins remained. It was believed that almost everything heals.
            1. Fat
              +4
              17 October 2022 15: 17
              Yes, I've heard it, and that's what I remember. In Cyrenaica, a lot of things, in a mild Mediterranean climate, grew from oil palms to apple trees ... And of course, almost legendary silphium, which the Romans who came in large numbers exhausted Yes
              1. +5
                17 October 2022 15: 22
                Exhausted. It's even interesting - how miraculous was it?
                1. Fat
                  +6
                  17 October 2022 15: 40
                  It is not known for certain. The Romans considered it a powerful aphrodisiac ... Most likely something with a psychotropic effect, but this is not a fact, of course ...
                  1. +2
                    17 October 2022 15: 48
                    Quote: Thick
                    The Romans considered it a powerful aphrodisiac.

                    The Romans generally used it as an abortion drug and not as an aphrodisiac.
                    1. Fat
                      +4
                      17 October 2022 16: 01
                      The ancient Romans used silphium in medicine, its juice was used to treat sore throats, fevers, indigestion, epilepsy, and also as a remedy for poisoning. But the most important thing, for which silphium and the extract of its juice, called laser, fell in love with the Romans - the effect of an aphrodisiac and at the same time a contraceptive.
                      It was believed that it was enough for a woman to drink laser once a month so as not to be afraid of a sudden pregnancy. And in the early stages - cause a miscarriage of the fetus. Because of this, sylphium became extremely popular in Greece, Egypt, and later in Rome. It turned out that silphium does not grow in other countries, and it was not possible to start a plantation or two of this wonderful herb somewhere else, except for Cyrenaica - obviously, only the local soil and climate suited the silphium.
                      1. +1
                        17 October 2022 16: 27
                        Choose your sources carefully
                        No ancient author mentions such a property in a plant.
                2. +3
                  17 October 2022 15: 52
                  Quote from Korsar4
                  Izveli

                  They didn’t. According to modern research, what was then called silphium is nothing more than what is now scientifically called Drudean Ferula
                  1. Fat
                    +5
                    17 October 2022 16: 13
                    hi It looks like it, but probably not the same kind.

                    Btonnik Mahmut Miski, who found the plant you mentioned in Turkey already 40 years ago, is most likely wishful thinking.
                    Ionia and the Peloponnese are not so badly disposed in relation to the sun and the seasons, so that there is a lack of sun for the growth of plants, however, despite many attempts, it was impossible to grow in Ionia and the Peloponnese the sylphion, which itself grows in Libya
                    Hippocrates.
                    1. +2
                      17 October 2022 16: 35
                      Quote: Thick
                      It looks like

                      )))

                      Do you have an accurate scientific description of ancient sulfium that would refute a well-known biologist, whose point of view is accepted as reliable in scientific circles?
                      1. +4
                        17 October 2022 16: 53
                        And which botanist believes that sylphium is exactly Ferula drudeana?
                    2. +1
                      17 October 2022 16: 38
                      Quote: Thick
                      who found the plant you mentioned in Turkey already 40 years ago

                      It was by no means he who found this plant, and by no means 40 years ago. In his study, by the way, there is also a significant "Russian trace"
                  2. +4
                    17 October 2022 16: 51
                    This is one of the versions. But there are a lot of ferrules. I had to deal with some in natural conditions.
  6. +6
    17 October 2022 08: 03
    Good morning everyone. Regarding the battle of Zela and the defeat of Farnaka, I once read an article, I can hardly find it, it was about 12 years ago, and it seemed to me quite convincing that Caesar was cunning by sending a report about the victory to the famous September. The victory was beyond any doubt, but on the subject of an easy walk, it was still not quite so.
    The fact that Caesar was a master of PR, no doubt, as well as the fact that Farnak was a little late with his speech, or vice versa, he hurried, but he could not know about the future African campaign. Apparently, while he was gathering troops, the battle of Pharsal took place, but he nevertheless decided to invade and the battle turned out to be very tough.
    It's funny that Farnak himself rebelled against daddy when he was preparing his fourth war against Rome, and he himself took his path. that Farnak was killed, the intriguer Asander did not let him return to the Crimea and sit there calmly, which Farnak incited to speak either against Mithridates or against Rome, and he himself became king, though Asander was not allowed to rule calmly. Poisoned in the end tired of fighting with competitors.
  7. +7
    17 October 2022 09: 11
    Little known story. Usually they write literally 2-3 words about this: they say, Caesar floated to Africa, "hung" everyone there - and quickly home. And the opponents are serious, it turns out, were. And, if not for the horse that threw Labien, perhaps everything turned out differently.
    1. +4
      17 October 2022 13: 40
      if not for the horse that threw Labien, perhaps everything turned out differently.


      So, there were switchmen then, only they were called differently. laughing

      Hi Aleksey! drinks
  8. +4
    17 October 2022 09: 36
    Valery, what is the fate of Aresenoi?
    However, there were morals: brother and sister - husband and wife.
    I couldn't do it with my brother.
    Although, I know the real story: half-brother and sister (different mothers) live happily and the child is completely healthy.
    1. VLR
      +7
      17 October 2022 09: 40
      All relatives and relatives of Cleopatra died (not without outside help, of course).
      1. +2
        17 October 2022 12: 25
        I don't know why, but I feel sorry for Arsenoy
        Perhaps, if not for Potin, the fate of her relatives would have been different?
        But that's out of the realm of conjecture.
      2. +5
        17 October 2022 13: 43
        All relatives and relatives of Cleopatra died




        Such a sad story. belay
    2. +6
      17 October 2022 12: 10
      That was the way it was at the time.
      In the name of Ptolemy Philadelphus, in my opinion, there is also a reference to brotherly love.
      1. +4
        17 October 2022 13: 09
        Sergey, they just didn’t want to let strangers on the throne. It was the same in ancient Egypt. Hence the pharaohs became degenerates in the physical plane. The same Tutankhamen. The very first Ptolemy understood, apparently, the importance of tradition as a way of protecting the dynasty.
        1. +5
          17 October 2022 14: 57
          As for the history of Ptolemy Philadelphus himself, it is necessary to take into account the very factor of his sister-wife Arsinoe. Especially since she was older.
          1. +2
            17 October 2022 15: 18
            Which of the Ptolemies do you mean? Son of Ptolemy I Soter and Berenice I? Did it all start from this?
            What am I confused about Ptolemies)))
            1. +4
              17 October 2022 15: 25
              Yes. Himself. It is in honor of him that the mock orange was named in Latin, they say.
              1. +4
                17 October 2022 17: 45
                Mock orange (lat. Philadélphus) is a genus of shrubs from the Hydrangeaceae family. In Russia, this shrub is often incorrectly called jasmine...

                So this is what a zealous lady, who called herself a house manager, cut down under the windows of the first entrance of my Khrushchev. She brought hard workers, and a huge flowering bush disappeared as if it had not been. And there was no limit to the excitement of the residents. Then they found an explanation: the roof went to the old woman ...
                And look how long the story drags on. Echoes of antiquity - in everyday life. Next to me was the fleur of Ptolemy. But now, he disappeared.
                1. +6
                  17 October 2022 18: 12
                  So this is what a zealous lady, who called herself a house manager, cut down under the windows of the first entrance of my Khrushchev. She brought hard workers, and a huge flowering bush disappeared as if it had not been. And there was no limit to the excitement of the residents.
                  "Sasha cried as the forest was cut down." (FROM)
                2. +4
                  17 October 2022 19: 02
                  The end of May - June will come, and Chubushnika will bloom again. I know a place where there are a lot of them. Some even smell like strawberries.
                  1. +4
                    17 October 2022 21: 57
                    There is such a place where Belle L'Etoile of French selection smells of strawberries, and white strawberries, on the contrary, with the aroma of pineapple, and the ground cover Manto D'Armin (ermine mantle), fragrant creeps underfoot ..
                    1. +4
                      17 October 2022 22: 13
                      Nicely laid out.
                      But there is also a species - small-leaved mock orange, and varieties based on it.
  9. +4
    17 October 2022 10: 11
    Rome is great, and only because of its great citizens. The most dramatic time was the "republic". It was possible to keep both rich and ordinary citizens from sliding into an animal existence by "expansion". Roman citizens, Latin citizens, etc. - all in importance. It was a beautiful time, then a person realized and respected his state
  10. +6
    17 October 2022 10: 18
    The film of 63 impressed me a lot as a child, and maybe introduced adjustments into my addictions: only brunettes with big eyes! I have been happily living with one of these for over 32 years.
    It's a pity Liz Taylor drank herself, it happens, of course, with the stars even more often than with ordinary people.
    Well, the "larks" were apparently fans of Wotan (or Odin) - they saw the enemy, got furious right there and went to chop!" Dried mushrooms are well stored, especially in the African climate. That is, the complex concept of "discipline" they fit into a dilemma: run forward it is possible and necessary, it is impossible to go back!
    And the art of Caesar, as a commander in this case, was not to be angry for the violation of his plans for the battle, but to instantly redraw the plan of this very battle according to the circumstances. Not a dogmatist, but a doer, with the help of intelligence and determination, he is able to turn any circumstances to his advantage. And the subsequent awards and medals to the legion, which, in fact, violated everything that is possible ... it's all familiar to us "Winners are not judged!"
    1. +5
      17 October 2022 12: 33
      Quote: faterdom
      It's a pity Liz Taylor drank herself, it happens

      This is really a very sad story. In this she was very *helped* by a handsome alcoholic and part-time husband Richard Burton. He loved, drank, beat and presented with diamonds.
      1. +5
        17 October 2022 13: 54
        In this she was very *helped* by a handsome alcoholic and part-time husband Richard Burton. He loved, drank, beat and presented with diamonds.


        But it was wrong to contact the mercenary. bully

        1. +4
          17 October 2022 14: 08
          Quote: Sea Cat
          mercenary

          This is a photo from "Wild Geese"? That's how he served in the Air Force. bully No, no. Not in SAS.
          1. +4
            17 October 2022 14: 20
            Of course, from "Geese", after this film I don't perceive other kins about mercenaries. Is it only "Flesh + Blood", but this is generally a hymn to mercenarism and its indestructibility in this life. wink
            Who served in the Air Force - Barton?
            1. +4
              17 October 2022 14: 55
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Who served in the Air Force - Barton?

              That's right. In the US Air Force. Right up to 1947.
              1. +3
                17 October 2022 15: 05
                Well, well done, not some rookie. Fought?
              2. +4
                17 October 2022 18: 09
                United States Air Force
                Why the US if Burton is British?
                Hello, Sergey!
                1. +4
                  17 October 2022 18: 59
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  Why the US if Burton is British?

                  Good evening Anton!
                  More precisely, Richard is from Wales. You yourself are interested in how it happened, but if you remember that these are still the war and post-war years, then perhaps * decided to join the ranks *? But in all the sources that I looked at it is written that Namely * US Air Force *.
                  1. +4
                    17 October 2022 19: 11
                    More specifically, Richard is from Wales.
                    "Ponty is more expensive than money!" (FROM)
                    "Welsh" refers to the crown princes of Britain.
                    1. +4
                      17 October 2022 19: 21
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Welsh

                      Valian. Countryman of the lovely Catherine Zeta-Jones. bully
                      1. +4
                        17 October 2022 19: 33
                        lovely Catherine Zeta-Jones.
                        Not ideal, of course, but impressive.
                      2. +1
                        18 October 2022 17: 49
                        Valian. Countryman of the lovely Catherine Zeta-Jones.


                        Did he get to her too? wink



                        Hi, Seryozha. smile
                      3. +2
                        18 October 2022 18: 25
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Did he get to her too?

                        Hello my friend!
                        No, he didn’t get to her. In 1984, he died, and she was only fifteen years old. So, I think without options. A womanizer and a drunkard, but not a pedophile. bully
                      4. +2
                        18 October 2022 18: 35
                        Well, if the girl is fifteen years old, then what the hell is pedophilia. laughing
                      5. +2
                        18 October 2022 18: 47
                        Well, if the girl is fifteen years old, then what the hell is pedophilia
                        Approximately this is how the dates of birth of medieval noblewomen are calculated.
                      6. +2
                        18 October 2022 19: 45
                        Approximately this is how the dates of birth of medieval noblewomen are calculated.


                        How was this in India? smile

                      7. +1
                        18 October 2022 19: 48
                        "And what, comrade with a lean mug,
                        Do you think about the taste of "Rama"? " (FROM)
                      8. +2
                        18 October 2022 19: 52
                        "And what, comrade with a lean mug,


                        Look at yourself! laughing
                      9. +1
                        18 October 2022 20: 01
                        No, well, if you don't like the work of Timur Shaov, I can quote "Michael" Naumenko.
                      10. +2
                        18 October 2022 20: 11
                        I am not familiar with the work of Timur, but which of the Michaels do you mean?
                      11. +1
                        18 October 2022 20: 19
                        1. Sorry.
                        2. Mikhail Naumenko, leader of the Zoo group.
                      12. +2
                        18 October 2022 20: 23
                        Maybe I heard something, but it didn't stick in my memory. In my time there were other bards and other songs, not all of them were good, but... what I remember, I remember. smile
                      13. +2
                        18 October 2022 18: 52
                        Yeah. Right now. And what does the law say? The law is harsh, but it is the law. bully
                      14. +2
                        18 October 2022 19: 48
                        It all depends on the specific country and local customs.

                        And the law, what a drawbar ... laughing

                      15. +1
                        18 October 2022 21: 02
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        It all depends on the specific country and local customs.

                        So yes, of course. But we are talking about the hypothetical love of a 58-year-old man of imperfect behavior for a 15-year-old young lady? And yes, you will love the love of evil and the heavy-drinking Richard Burton. laughing
                      16. +1
                        18 October 2022 21: 14
                        But we are talking about the hypothetical love of a 58-year-old man of imperfect behavior for a 15-year-old young lady


                        Love for all ages;
                        But to young, virgin hearts
                        Her impulses are beneficial
                        Like spring storms to fields:
                        In the rain of passions they freshen up,
                        And they are renewed, and they ripen -
                        And a mighty life gives
                        And lush color and sweet fruit.
                2. +4
                  17 October 2022 19: 11
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  British?

                  I searched and nevertheless found other information! So, it turns out that he served in the 499th squadron of the Royal Air Force! That is, he still served in the British army! fellow
                  in ground services.
                  1. +3
                    17 October 2022 19: 17
                    Here you go! But in general, an extraordinary man, to marry the same woman twice, given that this is Elizabeth Taylor, you must be able to do this !!!
                    1. +1
                      18 October 2022 14: 33
                      to marry the same woman twice, given the fact that this is Elizabeth Taylor, you must be able to do this !!!

                      And both times were successful. wassat How did he do it?! belay
                      Although, they say the truth - you can’t drink away talent. laughing
  11. -1
    17 October 2022 12: 55
    All this is similar to the capture of land by waves.
    Here Pompey fought for Rome, walked around the outskirts, recruited an army from whom he got, and he himself turned into a barbarian. Also here. The army walked along the outskirts of the borders and themselves became barbarians for Rome. In principle, the tactics of cannibalism, not to be confused with Hanibal, is typical for Rome.
  12. +6
    17 October 2022 13: 02
    I chose this fragment of the article for verification.
    Unfortunately for the Republicans, a horse was wounded near Labienus and threw him off his saddle. Labienus was carried away from the battlefield, and Petreus, who remained instead of him, being in euphoria, unexpectedly ordered an end to the pursuit, stating:
    "We will not take away the victory from our general Scipio."

    Once again I was convinced that just like that the author cannot be trusted - only after a thorough check. smile
    If you believe an anonymous source, referred to in science as "pseudo-Caesar", and Valery believes him, since he speaks below about the unauthorized attack of the Fifth Legion in the Battle of Taps, then the picture is somewhat different. Let's start with the fact that the wound of the horse was by no means accidental:
    Labien rode bareheaded along the first line; he encouraged his own, and sometimes turned to Caesar's legionnaires with the following words: What are you doing there, recruit? Are you so perky? Did he even fool you with his speeches? To tell the truth, he pushed you into a great danger. I pity you. Then a soldier said to him: I, Labienus, am not a recruit, but a veteran of the 10th Legion. Then Labien says: I don't see the banners of the 10th Legion here. Then the soldier answered: Now you will know who I am. With these words, he threw off his helmet and, throwing with all his might the spear, which he aimed at Labien, severely wounded his horse in the chest and added: Labien, know that it is a soldier of the 10th Legion who is aiming at you.

    But the most interesting is further.
    Meanwhile, Caesar understood the intentions of the enemies and ordered the front to be stretched as much as possible, and made every second cohort turn and stand so that one cohort was in front of the banners and the other behind. With this maneuver, he broke through the right and left flanks of the enemy ring and, cutting off one part from the other, attacked the enemy cavalry and infantry from the inside and, throwing shells, put them to flight. However, not carried away by the pursuit and fearing an ambush, he retreated back to his own: the other part of his infantry and cavalry did the same. Having driven the enemy far away and inflicted heavy losses on them with the wounded, Caesar after this battle began to retreat to his camp in full order of battle.

    That is, so far there is no talk of any defeat. Further.
    Meanwhile, M. Petrey and Gn. Piso with a thousand six hundred selected Numidian horsemen and with a rather numerous Numidian infantry to help their own, straight from the campaign. Then the enemy recovered from their panic, regained their courage, forced their cavalry to turn back and began to attack the rear guard of our retreating infantry, preventing it from returning to the camp.

    Petreus, it turns out, arrived on the battlefield after the start of the battle and behaved very actively and not at all
    in euphoria, suddenly ordered to stop the persecution
    as written by the author. On the contrary, he put the battered troops in order and organized another attack.
    Further we read:
    Noticing this, Caesar ordered the cohorts to turn around and resume the battle in the middle of the field. The enemy fought in the same way as before, avoiding hand-to-hand combat; and among Caesar's horsemen, the horses were exhausted from a recent race, thirst, fatigue, wounds, so that they could not quickly pursue the enemy and continue to gallop; Besides, the day was coming to an end. Then Caesar rode around the cohorts and cavalry and, encouraging them, asked them to make one last effort and not reduce their energy until they drove the enemies behind the distant hills and captured them. When the signal was then given and the enemies were already listlessly and carelessly throwing their shells, he suddenly threw his cohorts and squadrons at them. In an instant, the enemies were driven from the field without any difficulty, then driven down the hill, and ours, having stayed there for some time, slowly returned to their fortifications in full battle order. But the opponents, having met with a bad reception, now, at last, rushed to their camp.
    When, thus, the battle was interrupted, many people fled from the enemy to Caesar, and, in addition, many enemy horsemen and foot soldiers were captured.

    That is, having repelled the attacks of the enemy, Caesar's army launched a counterattack, captured the heights dominating the area, and returned to the camp, and even captured the prisoners.
    There is nothing in this source about the words of Petreus, they say, "we will not take away the victory from our commander," this can only be read from Appian. Plutarch also lacks this moment. I fully admit that such a phrase could be uttered, but how and under what circumstances is a very difficult question. Considering that Scipio's authority in the troops was very low, the indicated phrase could have a meaning literally opposite to what Valery put into it, namely ironic and evil. A long battle, the troops were exhausted to the extreme, heavy losses, but despite a significant numerical superiority, significant success could not be achieved - the enemy managed to break out of the encirclement, push back the Republican troops and return to the fortified camp.
    In such circumstances, a small continuation suggests itself to the indicated phrase:
    - We will not take away the victory from our commander Scipio - loudly, so that the legionnaires standing in the ranks could hear, Petreus, gray from dust and fatigue, said. And he quietly added to himself - Let him, if he wants, come and try to take it himself.
    smile
    1. +4
      17 October 2022 13: 57
      Let him, if he wants, come and try to take it himself.


      Almost according to Leonid - "Come and take it." Yes

      Hi Michael! drinks
    2. Fat
      +4
      17 October 2022 15: 01
      hi Wow! Thank you Michael! As they say, in a different light, the “canvas” sparkled with new colors and previously unnoticed details became visible. smile
      1. +6
        17 October 2022 15: 46
        The fact is that the testimonies of Appian, Plutarch and the anonymous author sometimes contradict one another. At the same time, it is believed that the anonymous author described what he saw with his own eyes, that is, he was a direct participant in the events in the army, of course, Caesar. When you read it, it really begins to seem that he himself was in the ranks of legionnaires, directly participating in the battle.
        Appian and Plutarch are late historians, they lived much later than the events they describe.
        If we are talking about the attack of the fifth legion without an order - this is the testimony of an anonymous author. According to Appian, for example, the battle of Taps was extremely stubborn, according to Plutarch - Caesar's masterful detour with a real defeat of the Republicans with Caesar's losses of fifty people, according to an anonymous author - everything was decided by a spontaneous attack, after which the resistance of the Republicans was broken.
        As for the first battle, allegedly lost by Caesar, only Appian writes about a frank loss, saying that Caesar was lucky.
        But you can’t do this: take several sources and choose from each one that you like best. Valery liked it about a spontaneous attack - we read anonymous, he wanted to "defeat" Caesar at least once - we turn to Appian, and we will take some juicy detail from Plutarch. And all this without any explanation or explanation from the author.