Marlin vs Winchester

74
Marlin vs Winchester
A modern shooter with a modern marlin. Photo fieldandstream.com


Lubricate both colts properly
Winchester properly lubricate
And go on the road, because
Crazy got into your head...
“Was not…”

Y. Kim, music. G. Gladkov, "The Man from the Capuchin Boulevard"

stories about weapons. Everyone knows Winchester. Vaughn even inserted the name of this rifle into the song. Which is not surprising if we remember the role played by the "Yellow Guy" in the development of the Wild West. Why "yellow"? Yes, because the Winchester rifle of the 1873 model of the year had a brass receiver, that is, yellow. On me in his time story made such a strong impression that I even wrote a novel about him "People and Weapons" (and they say that he "turned out"). However, later I learned that not every "Winchester", that is, a gun with a bracket at the bottom, is a "Winchester", even if these guns look like two drops of water, that there was another gun with a lever reloading system popular in the USA, and even more perfect than ... "the hard drive itself." This carbine was called "Marlin", also in honor of the founder of the company, and today our story will go about it ...




Goiko Mitich - "the main Indian of all times and peoples", is simply unthinkable without a hard drive in his hands ... Frame from the 1965 film "Sons of the Big Dipper"

Let's start by remembering that the first "Winchester" (namely, the Winchester of Oliver Winchester, and not the "Henry rifle") appeared in 1866. Caliber .44 (10,9 mm). Then came the famous model M1873, and a decade later - M1886, produced until 1933 and produced in the amount of approximately 160 copies. It was developed by John Moses Browning, and his design turned out to be cheaper and easier to produce than the M000 (or M1873).


"Marlin" M1881. View from the left. Photo littlegun.be


"Marlin" M1881. Right view. Photo littlegun.be

Meanwhile, John M. Marlin founded the Marlin Firearms & Co. in Connecticut in 1870 and, following the Winchester firm, also began manufacturing rifled and smooth-bore weapons, as well as ammunition for them. In the 1880s, it was Marlin that became the main competitor of Winchester in the production of lever carbines. Their desperate and fierce struggle for the market served as a good incentive to further improve the design of rifles with a lever-operated reloading mechanism.


"Marlin" M1887. Right view. Photo littlegun.be


"Marlin" M1887. View from the left. Photo littlegun.be

And at first, "Marlin" only copied the "Winchesters", paying main attention to quality, so the "Marlin" carbines differ from the "Winchester" ones only in small things. But over time, the company's designers have gained the necessary experience ...


"Marlin" M1889. Right view. Caliber .38-40 "Winchester" (10,2 mm). Photo littlegun.be


"Marlin" M1889. View from the left. Caliber .38. Photo littlegun.be

In addition, "Marlin" was very lucky in that the designer of the enterprise was Lewis L. Hepburn, who was not only a talented engineer, but also a champion-level target shooter.


Bolt box "Marlin" M1889. Right view. The shutter plate and the cover of the magazine charging socket are clearly visible. Photo littlegun.be


Butt "Marlin" M1889. It is a pleasure to cling to such a cheek. Photo littlegun.be

As a result, the company launched models of carbines 1881, 1888, 1889, 1891, 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895 and 1897 on the market. However, the first models were a copy of the traditional "hard drive". Although the famous Annie Oakley most of all trusted the Marlin of 1891, believing that he was more reliable than others. So, for example, the 1881 model of the year was chambered in calibers .32-40 Winchester Center Fire (VTsB), .38-55 (VTsB), .40-60 Marlin, .45-70 Government or .45 -85 "Marlin", and also had an underbarrel tubular magazine and a standard octagonal barrel 28 inches (71 cm) long. But… even the Sun has spots. And all the same Lewis Hepburn decided to improve the "Winchester" and once again prove that there is no limit to perfection. And he proved it by inventing his own, somewhat different shutter mechanism!


The work of the shutter "Marlin" M1889. Caliber .38. Photo littlegun.be

In 1888, his first rifle appeared with a side-mounted bolt window, which almost completely eliminated the ingress of dirt into the receiver from above. Then came the 1889 and 1893 models. similar design.


"Marlin" M1889. Caliber .44 (10,9 × 32,5 R mm). Calibers .38, .25-20 (VTsB) (very rare), .32-20 (VTsB), .38-40 or .44-40 (VTsB). Octagonal barrel 609 or 700 mm long, side ejection with strong top frame, blued finish with hardened trigger, lever and butt plate. Received the nickname "The Whistleblower". Photo littlegun.be


"Marlin" M1889. Caliber .30-30 (7,62x51mm R). Photo littlegun.be

In 1894, the M1894 model appeared, patented on August 1, 1893. Well, a year later, the M1895 model, which became the classic rifle of the “Marlin system”.


"Winchester" M1886. View from the left. Photo littlegun.be


"Winchester" M1886. Right view. Photo littlegun.be


Receiver "Winchester" M1886. The differences with the Marlin box are clearly visible. Photo littlegun.be

In fact, it became the company's response to the M1886 "Winchester", which was produced under the caliber .45-70, which was popular in those years. The .1887-38 Winchester cartridge was then introduced in 56 and was immediately used in the 1886 and 1887 models. and in "marlin" 1895


Carbine "Winchester" M1895 chambered for .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen. Photo littlegun.be


Bolt box "Winchester" M1895 chambered for .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen. Loading with a clip, as you can see, has not yet been provided. Photo littlegun.be


View of the closed shutter of the Winchester M1895 chambered for .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen. The disadvantage of such a shutter is obvious - it is the impossibility of installing an optical sight on a rifle. Photo littlegun.be

It immediately became clear that the M1895 has a number of undeniable advantages over the "hard drive". Unlike the Model 1886, it ejected shells from the side rather than up. Its closed receiver was more durable, with separate openings for the shutter and loading, and therefore it turned out to be much more rigid and durable than the Winchester. In addition, the "marlin" mechanism was simpler, and it had a trigger that could be adjusted to the desired force. The original service life of the Model 1895 was 22 years, but relatively few new carbines were sold - only about 18 copies. It was only later that this model became history, and its price rose to sky-high heights.


The first model of the carbine "Marlin" 1895 Photo 1895gunner.com

The first Model 1895 Marlin rifles were made in 1896 and included in that year's company catalog. The lowest serial number of the 1895 model was 131 - and it is known that it was produced on November 180, 27. The first rifles were chambered in .1895-38, .56-40, .65-40, .82-45 and .70-45. In 90, the .1897-1895 (VTsB) cartridge was added to the list of calibers of the 40 model, and in 70, the .1912 (VTsB) cartridge. The rifle was available as a carbine, rifle with a round, semi-octagonal, or full octagonal barrel. Samples were produced with a straight stock neck and a pistol grip. Weight ranged from 33 to 2,8 kg. The magazine capacity was 3,7 rounds.

In response, the Winchester company developed the M1895 rifle with a middle magazine. This is Browning's latest lever-action weapon. The rifle was produced in many calibers: 7,62x54R, .303 British, .30-03, .30 Army, .30-06, .35 Winchester, .40-72 Winchester, .405 "Winchester". It was produced in fairly large volumes and even came into service with the Russian imperial army, but it still could not compare with the "marlin" M1895. Especially when Marlin also developed its own .444 cartridge, which was an elongated .44 Magnum, and, accordingly, released another carbine under it.


Cartridge .458 "Winchester magnum". Photo memo-randum.net

In 1912, Marlin introduced its first rifle chambered in high-capacity .33 caliber smokeless powder. All the barrels of these new rifles were so marked with a special stamp on the left side. They cost $18,5 or $22 depending on build. The last model M1895 was produced in 1917. After that, it was not produced until 1972, when the rifle began to be re-released under the name "New Model 1895". At the same time, the first models of 1972 were sold in the United States at a price of $185. In 1948, the company developed a carbine called the Model 336 (an adaptation of the 1892 Winchester model). It was a huge success, with more than 5 million copies known to have been sold to date.


Model 1936. Photo 1895gunner.com

Model 1895S was produced from 1981 to 1984, it included a pistol grip stock with a rounded lever. And the 1895SS, a further development, was available from 1984 to 1988.


Cartridge .45-70 (11,63 mm) "Government". Photo memo-randum.net

In 1972, another smart person in the company came up with the idea to resurrect the production of a large-caliber shotgun similar to the original M1895. It was only necessary to enlarge the action of the Model 336 to be chambered in .444 Marlin and .45-70 stamped Model 1895.


Cartridge .45-90-300 "Speed ​​Winchester". Photo memo-randum.net

The company offered its "1895" in several versions, but the most popular among them was the "Patrol Gun" model of 1998. It had a 47 cm barrel, a walnut stock with a straight neck butt, and weighed just under 3,2 kg.


Model "Marlin" M336. Right view. Photo 1895gunner.com

In 2005, Hornady introduced the new Lever Evaluation ammunition, which allowed rifles with tubular underbarrel magazines to use plastic spitzer-tipped bullets, adding another 90 meters to the practical range of the .45-70 cartridge. Then companies such as Garrett and Buffalo Bo seriously improved the .45-70 caliber cartridges, began to complete them with high-quality powder charges and cast hard-alloy bullets that could “flatten” almost any target.

As a result, the 1895 model became fashionable. But in June 2011, the facility was closed, all 265 employees laid off, and the North Haven, Connecticut facility and equipment were sold to Remington, which was already on the brink of bankruptcy. The obsolete machines that made the marlins were moved to Ilion, New York, but all the people who knew how to work them were fired. For several years, the new owners tried to make World War I machines work instead of investing in modern CNC equipment, and the result was quite expected: Remington had to declare bankruptcy and sell off its assets in order to pay off debts on loans. .

As a result, what was left of Marlin was bought in 2020 by a company founded by William B. Ruger and Alexander McCormick Sturm back in 1949. And the first model that Ruger decided to bring back to the market was the 1895. Ruger called it the 1895 SBL. This is now an all-stainless steel rifle in .45-70 caliber with a gray laminated wood stock, oversized lever, Picatinny rail and perhaps the most top-notch scopes ever offered for a lever-action rifle.


"Marlin" M1895 GBL ("with a lever with a large loop") manufactured by Ruger. Photo 1895gunner.com

It is now manufactured at the company's facility in Mayodan, North Carolina, and is produced using the most modern technologies: the barrel is cold forged, the surface is treated so that it does not give glare. Models 1895G, 1895GBL and 1895SBL have a 47 cm blued barrel chambered in .45-70 Government.


"Marlin" M1895 - "dark rifle with an enlarged bracket." Right view. Photo 1895gunner.com
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74 comments
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  1. +3
    16 October 2022 06: 16
    Good morning!
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you have already written about Marline. I wonder what prompted you to return to this topic?
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. +8
      16 October 2022 07: 30
      Good morning! You see, there is a lot of new information. You can compare both materials and you will see that the differences are very noticeable. And the text is brand new. Checked before shipping - 90% new without an epigraph. So I think it could very well be. And then there are many new readers on the site ...
      1. +3
        16 October 2022 08: 28
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, it was interesting to read today's material, I did not even dispute it! I just thought you had other (more intriguing) motives for the above posted work!
        1. +4
          16 October 2022 08: 39
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          I just thought you had other (more intriguing) motives for the above posted work!

          There were other motives as well. This is only the first part. There will be a second one about many companies that have produced and are producing rifles with a lever. It turned out there were a lot of them. And a lot of interesting photos. I had to give an introduction...
  2. +5
    16 October 2022 06: 31
    As Comrade Mao aptly remarked:

    The rifle gives rise to power.
    1. +9
      16 October 2022 06: 54
      The rifle gives rise to power.


      Yes, but a machine gun is better. wink

      Hello Sergey! drinks
      1. +4
        16 October 2022 07: 01
        Good morning, Constantine!

        You know that human ingenuity was not limited to a machine gun.
        1. +7
          16 October 2022 07: 19
          You know that human ingenuity was not limited to a machine gun.


          Yes, TV has been invented. wassat

          1. +4
            16 October 2022 08: 02
            And not only Freken Bok gets into it.
            1. +6
              16 October 2022 08: 18
              ... Well, then, at Kanatchikovaya dacha,
              Where, unfortunately, obsessive service,
              I watched the programs in my delirium,
              All stood up for Angela Davis.
              I hear: do not cry - everything is in order in the taiga,
              Won the USSR-FRG match,
              One hundred villains captured
              And Magomayev sings in KVN.
              1. +4
                16 October 2022 09: 08
                All the flowers froze, the winds went crazy,
                Everyone who had a house hid in houses,
                Ants are dragging straws everywhere...
                And we, unfit for work and struggle,
                We can only ask: "Let me go to you!" -
                And proudly die when we are not allowed.
                1. +3
                  16 October 2022 09: 15
                  [quote] [Bouncer Dragonfly
                  Summer red sang;
                  I did not have time to look back
                  As winter rolls in my eyes.
                  A pure field has died;
                  There are no days of those bright Bole
                  Like under each leaf
                  Both the table and the house were ready./quote]
                  1. +3
                    16 October 2022 11: 42
                    “The longer I sit, the more I catch.
                    The more I catch, the more satisfying I eat.
                    The more fish I eat, the better I will sleep.
                    The more I sleep, the healthier I will be
                    And I will win everyone, and I will win everyone!” (With).
                    1. +4
                      16 October 2022 11: 52
                      The knights sleep
                      Their swords are rusting.
                      Only rarely, rarely
                      Which one will wake up
                      And to the people from the grave will knock
                      1. +4
                        16 October 2022 14: 58
                        At twelve o'clock at night
                        The drummer rises from the coffin;
                        And he walks back and forth
                        And he beats the alarm promptly.
                        And in the dark coffins a drum
                        Mighty wakes the infantry;
                        Well done huntsmen get up,
                        The old grenadiers get up,
                        They rise from under the Russian snows,
                        From the luxurious Italian fields,
                        They rise from the African steppes,
                        From the combustible sands of Palestine.
                      2. +1
                        16 October 2022 21: 32
                        Two grenadiers to France
                        They wandered from Russian captivity
                        And both were depressed soul,
                        Reaching German land.

                        They will have to - hear - see
                        Shame on his native country ...
                        And the brave army is broken
                        And the emperor himself is in captivity!
                      3. +1
                        16 October 2022 22: 38
                        Foolish heart, don't beat
                        Think fast in unison!
                        There in France, near Reims,
                        Hidden city of Mourmelon,
                        Where for honor, not for a reward, -
                        Slander, stay away forever -
                        Russian brigades fought
                        For the province of Champagne.
                      4. +2
                        16 October 2022 23: 16
                        We enter the era twice,
                        We tear the remnants of the veins,
                        To say in front of everyone once -
                        “My ancestor served the king!”
                        "Not the king!" someone will notice
                        Should we forgive arrogance?
                        There is a soldier's work -
                        Russia-Russia to defend!
                        Agree! Thought is from God
                        They have been given insight.
                        After all, there are no number of kings! A lot of,
                        And the Fatherland is one!
              2. +2
                17 October 2022 11: 40
                Forty souls howl in shifts
                White-hot -
                In how much bother
                Triangular affairs!
                Everyone's almost crazy crazy
                Even who was insane
                And then the head doctor Margulis
                TV banned.
          2. +5
            16 October 2022 08: 37
            Quote from Korsar4
            Good morning, Constantine!

            You know that human ingenuity was not limited to a machine gun.

            Quote: Sea Cat
            You know that human ingenuity was not limited to a machine gun.


            Yes, TV has been invented. wassat



            Recently, I don’t even know if the availability of information is a blessing or a disaster!
            Humanity is rapidly losing its bonds with nature. In fact, today we are already so dependent on our “creations” that any collapse or failure will drive us into the Stone Age. The question is, having practically no basic competencies, how many people will survive without "central heating", "electricity" and "tik-tok"?
            I personally saw how 35-year-old men could not light a barbecue in the forest and a stove in a bathhouse !!!
            1. +4
              16 October 2022 08: 45
              To the ground. In the forest. Hands and feet need work.

              Another thing is that too much determines the need to fill the stomach.
            2. +4
              16 October 2022 09: 02
              how 35-year-old men could not light a barbecue in the forest and a stove in a bathhouse !!!

              These are not men, but a by-product of urbanization. negative
            3. +4
              16 October 2022 12: 37
              Vladislav! Read Alexander Mirer's novel Nine Lives. It's wonderfully written about it.
              1. +4
                16 October 2022 13: 14
                Quote: kalibr
                Vladislav! Read Alexander Mirer's novel Nine Lives. It's wonderfully written about it.

                Thanks Vyacheslav Rlegovich!
            4. +4
              16 October 2022 15: 04
              They also couldn’t light the torch in the light room?
              How about cutting hay and collecting stacks?
              Carve a dugout boat with a stone ax?
              They only know how to "shake" "Windows 10/11" in incomprehensible boxes and measure water flows in iron pipes with ultrasound!
            5. +1
              17 October 2022 15: 20
              And what's so bad about that? The development of technology entails the complication and deepening of the social division of labor.
              With banal examples - in the conditions of an agrarian tribal community of the Late Stone Age (Neolithic), within each family they knew how to do everything at that technical level that people of that time needed for life - they themselves sowed and grew crops, and made stone tools themselves, and clothes, and dishes.
              But already in the Middle Ages there were city dwellers - artisans and merchants who absolutely did not have to be able to personally conduct agriculture. They bought products in exchange for their goods and services.
              In the modern world, even more so - a farmer does not need to know programming for his work, a programmer - to be able to sew his own clothes, a garment factory worker - to know programming.
              In fact, we are already today dependent on our “creations” to such an extent.

              Technological progress, yes, replaces people's dependence on nature with their dependence on other people. But there is one caveat - you can negotiate with other people. With natural conditions - you can not agree in any way.
              The question is, having practically no basic competencies, how many people will survive without "central heating", "electricity" and "tik-tok"?

              The number of people that lives on our planet Earth now is just the result of the development of modern technologies. Which made it possible to overcome food shortages and infant / child supermortality, which, alas, was a great misfortune of mankind for most of our history ...
              1. +2
                17 October 2022 18: 29
                The problem is different.
                With the development of society, or rather progress, humanity is losing the basic skills of survival in the natural environment.
                So, today, left one on one, perhaps one in five will survive, tomorrow - ......
                1. +1
                  19 October 2022 13: 39
                  Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                  The problem is different.
                  With the development of society, or rather progress, humanity is losing the basic skills of survival in the natural environment.
                  So, today, left one on one, perhaps one in five will survive, tomorrow - ......

                  Humanity does not lose. No way. We live just in the natural environment, and transform it for ourselves through advanced technologies.
                  The separate average person yes - loses. But there is really no problem here. From the word "absolutely".
  3. +10
    16 October 2022 06: 39
    Good morning everyone, thanks to Vyacheslav for the new article! hi

    the famous Annie Oakley most of all trusted the Marlin of 1891,


    Annie Oakley


    Model 1891 designed by Lewis Hepburn - the first small-caliber "lever-action", loaded through the side hatch of the receiver, and not by pulling the spring with the feeder from the barrel magazine.




    Model 1891 retained the interest of buyers. Especially after in 1893 the notorious Annie Oakley from this rifle in 27 seconds put 25 bullets "hole in a hole" (well, or "hole in a hole", as you like).
    1. +4
      16 October 2022 08: 43
      Annie Oakley from this rifle in 27 seconds put 25 bullets "hole in a hole" (well, or "hole in a hole", as you like).

      Probably hit the target with 25 bullets in 27 seconds, of which 24 hit the bullet hole from the first!
      Cool, very cool. Did the store fit 25 rounds?
      1. +6
        16 October 2022 09: 12
        The magazine of this model is designed for 20 short, 16 long or 15 long .22 rifle cartridges. I reloaded the other five manually, but still, very quickly.
  4. +5
    16 October 2022 07: 09
    Vyacheslav hi in fact, Marlin was just a copy of Winchester, and then, so to speak, "illegitimate, and only later did the new models of Marlin make her both an image and a place in the arms market! For the article, as always, from me ++++++! hi
    1. +5
      16 October 2022 07: 32
      Quote: Thrifty
      in essence, Marlin was only a copy of Winchester, and then, so to speak, "illegitimate, and only subsequently did the new models of Marlin make her an image

      Exactly! But the law was not broken.
    2. +1
      16 October 2022 11: 39
      in fact, Marlin was just a copy of Winchester, and then, so to speak, "illegitimate

      He was neither a copy, nor, moreover, illegitimate.
  5. +5
    16 October 2022 09: 17
    And at first, "Marlin" only copied the "Winchesters", paying main attention to quality, so the "Marlin" carbines differ from the "Winchester" ones only in small things. But over time, the company's designers have gained the necessary experience ...

    Let me intercede for John Marlin. He did not copy the "Winchesters", and the "Marlin" carbine was very different from the "Winchester", although outwardly they are similar. In addition to the patents of Marlin himself, the patents of Burgess, Wheeler, Toppervine, acquired by Marlin, were used in it.

    This is a list of patents that were used in the "Marlin Repeater", which was the name of the carbine. The name 1881 Marlin appeared in 1888.
    1. +2
      16 October 2022 12: 43
      Outwardly, the first models are very similar. The shutter opens up, the lever is down, the charging hole is on the side. Many patents were obtained for purely private changes in details that did not play a fundamental role. For example, the 1873 Winchester and the 94 differ greatly in design. But outwardly it is only a cosmetic design. Same with marlin. It makes no sense to go into the depths and count the rivets and screws on the receivers. Outwardly, it is a "hard drive", and the details are not even known to all specialists due to the complete uselessness of such information.
      1. +3
        16 October 2022 13: 31
        Here again you write nonsense with aplomb. Stg-44 and AK are also very similar in appearance. Lee-Enfield and "Mosin" too. But that doesn't mean anything in terms of design. The "stuffing" of the "Marlin Repeater" and Winchester is different, moreover, so different that Winchester never had any questions about patent infringement to Marlin.
        1. +2
          16 October 2022 13: 59
          Everything is written in the article. What, when, from what year ... And yes, the latest models have a greater difference in design than the first. But for manual-operated designs, similarity in external design matters more than in automatic devices. And I wrote - "the law was not violated." So the difference was significant. What else do you need?
          1. +3
            16 October 2022 14: 11
            Everything is written in the article.

            What else do you need?

            The article says:
            And at first, "Marlin" only copied the "Winchesters", paying main attention to quality, so the "Marlin" carbines differ from the "Winchester" ones only in small things.

            In fact, Marlin never copied Winchester. That is, "it is necessary" not to write gag with the air of a great specialist in the field of small arms. That is sheer nonsense. We need to pay less attention to the glorification of your glories, which accompany each of your publications with thunderous applause due to the lack of an alternative, and pay more attention to completely constructive criticism. If you were not too lazy to at least check the publications that you copyright, the quality of your articles would rise by an order of magnitude. But "it will do" for 80 percent, right? And at 20 percent, you can put the device.
            1. +1
              16 October 2022 15: 09
              Quote from Nephilim
              at least a little check those publications that you copyright, the quality of your articles would rise by an order of magnitude.

              What for? If this is how they write in the USA, in their homeland, so to speak, people from the societies of hard drive and marlin lovers write, who have the flag in their hands, so is it worth raising the quality by an order of magnitude? It won't pay for itself! There is such a criterion - cost-effectiveness. Do you propose to increase efficiency? OK! Will you also pay the difference in price? They say who offers, he pays!
        2. +2
          16 October 2022 16: 57
          Maybe leave the old Stg-44 "alone" and compare the Czechoslovak Sa vz.58 with the Soviet AKs.
          It looks more like an AK than a "German relative"!
          1. +1
            16 October 2022 17: 08
            I agree with you, it’s obvious here that inertia let me down - the first thing that came to my mind was an example that set my teeth on edge.
            1. +2
              16 October 2022 17: 35
              And with the "three-ruler" outwardly, the Lee-Metford rifle looks more like, and not the Lee-Enfield.
              And quite "close" Mauser 1988!
              Similar in appearance to "Maxim", but differing in internal content, I hope you already know ...
          2. +1
            16 October 2022 18: 27
            Quote: hohol95
            Stg-xnumx

            I'll get my hands on it soon...
            1. +1
              16 October 2022 19: 08

              With ammo? For personal shooting...
              Then Sa vz.58 "demand"!
              For comparison with the AK family.
              1. +1
                16 October 2022 19: 18
                Quote: hohol95
                With ammo?

                What are you, no, of course not. AK - yes, for comparison.
                1. +1
                  16 October 2022 19: 23
                  Without cartridges - "no ice" ...
                  Pure "visual and throttle response" to the shoulder ...
                  It's a pity! crying
                  1. +1
                    16 October 2022 19: 49
                    Alexei! I'm happy about that, I don't know how...
                    1. +2
                      16 October 2022 19: 55
                      Just a "groan"...
                      Not a combatant wagon officer - that is, they won’t give me such a thing !!!
                      hi hi hi
          3. NAP
            0
            22 October 2022 21: 29
            The Czechoslovak Sa VZ.58 has almost nothing in common with the AK. Here in general. The Czechoslovakian didn’t even have interchangeable stores, it looks more like an SKS than an AK, so the AK doesn’t look like either a German or a Czechoslovak.
            1. +1
              22 October 2022 22: 30
              The point is not in their internal difference and the difference in the principle of action.
              They are visually similar!
              In the film "Full Metal Jacket" there is an episode - a Vietnamese woman with SAvz58 runs in a burning building.
              But how many saw it?
              I think almost all viewers are firmly convinced that this character in the film is armed with an AK!!!
        3. +1
          17 October 2022 15: 32
          You write nonsense with aplomb. Stg-44 and AK are also very similar in appearance. Lee-Enfield and Mosin too.

          Why nonsense. The principle of using a characteristic lever to actuate the shutter is the same here and there. The appearance of the product is also similar.
          But it normal. More than normal. Modern cars, for example, are similar in general appearance, regardless of the manufacturer. Smartphones are similar.
          In the case of the StG44 and AK/AKM, they do have quite a lot in common. Both designs have automation based on the removal of powder gases with a long stroke of the gas piston, both here and there - powered from a detachable box magazine, and the applied trigger mechanism is of the trigger type. It's just that neither one nor the other, nor the third was invented by H. Schmeisser. He took it from the previously existing designs.
          that Winchester never had any questions about patent infringement with Marlin

          Any patent for any invention or utility model has a strictly limited duration. Not more than 20 years old. Then the invention or utility model goes into the public domain.
          For example, many gun manufacturing companies make replicas of the M1911 Browning pistol, and most bolt action hunting/sporting rifles use the Mauser action. Neither the Colt nor the Mauser prevent this in any way and cannot prevent it (and this is good, right and necessary for the good of mankind. Hands off the public domain!). The patents have long since expired.
          1. -2
            17 October 2022 15: 46
            Sorry for the question - what did you want to tell me about?
  6. +8
    16 October 2022 11: 59
    These are not men, but a by-product of urbanization.
    Oh, these "soilers" to me! Just writes every comment, breaking away from the plow for a minute!)))
    1. +2
      16 October 2022 15: 02
      It's time to enter the coefficient of time spent on the ground.
      And do not come off above the 2nd floor.

      As for the cities, try not to become a proletarian. After all, not everyone has their own production.
      1. +5
        16 October 2022 15: 11
        It's just not clear to me why, for example, a programmer needs the ability to make a fire with one match.
        I know how to cut glass, but in the world of plastic windows, this skill takes on a negative value.
        1. +2
          16 October 2022 15: 22
          One may or may not be necessary. Let the box handle it. And there are no guarantees that you will not have to leave your habitat.

          I try to do what works for me. Comes out more efficiently.
        2. +3
          16 October 2022 15: 36
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          It's just not clear to me why, for example, a programmer needs the ability to make a fire with one match.
          I know how to cut glass, but in the world of plastic windows, this skill takes on a negative value.

          We Anton write about the conditional time "H". The ability to light a fire with a match is nothing, in a situation where the number of boxes of matches is limited !!!
          In fact, I am writing about something else - a man of a century ago did not know “absolutely nothing” about computers, but had practical skills that we can only guess at! By the way, I'm sure that the average person had the same amount of information on average, only it was different!
          1. +2
            16 October 2022 16: 13
            but had practical skills we can only guess at!
            Read the Handicraft Book.
        3. +5
          16 October 2022 16: 51
          It's just not clear to me why, for example, a programmer needs the ability to make a fire with one match.

          As experience shows, a programmer can almost instantly be transferred to conditions where the ability to make a fire is vital.
          1. +1
            16 October 2022 18: 29
            Quote from Nephilim
            programmer almost instantly

            Not everyone either ... There are such stupid ones ... As well as stupid kins ...
            1. +2
              16 October 2022 19: 39
              I meant the case when nothing depends on the intellect of the programmer. Force majeure, so to speak.
        4. +1
          22 October 2022 20: 34
          The ability to cut glass can give you a lot of extra money by creating, for example, lampshades in the "tiffany" technique, since the import of finished ones from Italy has closed.
    2. +3
      16 October 2022 15: 27
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      These are not men, but a by-product of urbanization.
      Oh, these "soilers" to me! Just writes every comment, breaking away from the plow for a minute!)))

      Anton, my friend, the problem is different. If the time “H” comes, you will not be left without a piece of bread with your profession, and I’ll have to live from the ground (more precisely, from the garden). Why? Yes, my competencies nafig who will need.
      1. +5
        16 October 2022 16: 10
        If the time “H” comes, you will not be left without a piece of bread with your profession
        Uh-huh, I'll make euromonts in dugouts ...
        And for a man who built a house with his own hands, you are too modest, Vlad.
        1. +2
          16 October 2022 18: 15
          Anton, it's one thing to just do it, it's another thing to do it beautifully and with high quality.
          1. +3
            16 October 2022 19: 03
            "Beautiful" - the taste and color of all felt-tip pens are different!
            Best the enemy of the good!
            If, after "lacing" the floor of the school, "cormorants fly" from the Ventilation with sledgehammers and ...
            Even plasterers are ready to LYNCH them ...
  7. Fat
    +1
    16 October 2022 17: 18
    hi Vyacheslav Olegovich. Got a question.
    The disadvantage of such a shutter is obvious - it is the impossibility of installing an optical sight on a rifle.

    Among the hard drives M 1885 there are single-shot (possibly sports) high wall and low wall. Successfully equipped with optics.

    In addition, M 1885 with optics from the "standard" so to speak

    It seems that the ejection of the spent cartridge case upwards is not a very big obstacle to the installation of optics. Apparently this is a completely solvable problem. request
    1. +1
      16 October 2022 18: 32
      Quote: Thick
      It seems that the ejection of the spent cartridge case upwards is not a very big obstacle to the installation of optics. Apparently this is a completely solvable problem.

      It was you who found the old sight for me. And yes, it's all right, not too much. But... a sequel will follow. There you will see a hard drive with a modern sight and see where it is located. I did not like. I'm sure you won't like it either. Wait for the release of the material. It's already in moderation...
    2. 0
      16 October 2022 19: 51
      In these rifles, the ejector can be adjusted so that the cartridge case is ejected to the side.
  8. +1
    16 October 2022 21: 54
    And there is also such a "Marlin" which is a fish:
    Okay, off topic... winked
  9. +2
    16 October 2022 22: 27
    Terminator (and others) with Winchester Model 1887
  10. +2
    16 October 2022 23: 47
    How appetizing.
    And I remember this thing from Django:


    The Henry 1860 rifle is a breech-loading (front-loading magazine) lever action rifle. This came about as an improvement on the design of the ill-fated Volcanic Repeater. The first 400 of the 14 rifles produced were produced with an iron frame instead of the commonly used brass frame. Brass was added at the end of 000 as production increased. Henry rifles were too expensive ($1862 to $45 each) to be produced in large numbers during the Civil War (by comparison, a regular Enfield rifle cost $65), but many Union soldiers used their paychecks to buy them themselves. . Confederate Colonel John Mosby called the "Henry" "that damned Yankee rifle that can be loaded on a Sunday and fired all week."

    www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:DjangoU_15.jpg
  11. 0
    13 January 2023 10: 03
    For Russia, only a longitudinally sliding shutter or straight-line, the rest is in the furnace, here is a conversion of the SVD into a straight-line, would solve the situation with accuracy!

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