The T-90M does not have a gun from the "Armata", and it is unlikely that it will

205
Source: life.ru

Our latest Tanks T-90M and before quite often shone in the news, but with the start of a special military operation in Ukraine, they began to be mentioned in the media with enviable regularity. Either they talk about combat effectiveness, or they talk about new batches of vehicles transferred to the troops. Sometimes, however, tanks become heroes of sad news - for example, when one of the T-90Ms was abandoned during the September events. News is news. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. As a matter of fact, it's not really about them.

The bottom line is that almost every second or third message repeats the same mantra about the fact that the T-90M is equipped with a 125-mm 2A82-1M smoothbore gun from the T-14 Armata tank. It is difficult to say where this topic originally came from, and it is not necessary. We can only note that this information should not be trusted - the gun on the machine is quite standard 2A46M-5, which, for example, is installed on the T-72B3 mod. 2016. Those who are interested in some of the reasons why the new "smoothbore" on the tank will not be registered, as well as what this gun was intended for - you are welcome to read this material.

T-90 was supposed to get a new gun


As you know, tanks evolve not only from generation to generation, but also within the same platform. They adopted the tank, painted its life cycle and other predictable things, put it into mass production. And then, after a while, follows a thorny path for its modernization, which over and over again increases its combat effectiveness and performance - development, in short.

This concerns not only such obvious parameters as armor, engines, sights, etc., but also guns. They also become obsolete and require modernization over time, although the need for it is not as acute as with new shells. As we know, all our main tanks are equipped with a 125 mm D-81 (2A46) cannon of various modifications. However, modifications are modifications, but the basis is one, the Soviet one.

The gun is solid, good, and today its entire resource has not yet been exhausted. But proposals for its replacement or a radical improvement in ballistic characteristics were put forward back in the USSR, since the growth in the booking of promising NATO tanks caused a number of concerns.

In modern Russia, the idea to increase the firepower of tanks was not abandoned, so back in the 90s, Design Bureau No. 9 in Yekaterinburg launched a program to create two new guns of 125-mm and 152-mm caliber. Why just two? The answer is quite simple: the 152-mm cannon, which received the index 2A83, was planned to be installed in the promising Object 195 tank (also known as the T-95), which we usually call the “progenitor of the Armata” and other epithets in the spirit of “what We lost".

Polygon installation with a 2A82 gun. Source: Zen channel Gur Khan Attaks
Landfill installation with a gun 2A82. Source: Gur Khan Attacks Zen Channel

But the 125-mm gun under the index 2A82 was already intended for existing tanks such as the T-80 and T-72. Unlike the standard 2A46, this gun with an auto-bonded and partially chrome-plated barrel provided higher muzzle energy: 15,3 MJ versus 10,2 MJ for the standard one. You can find information that high ballistic performance is achieved solely due to the increased barrel length, but this, of course, is not so. Pipe 2A82 is only 15 centimeters longer than that of 2A46 - 6,15 meters versus 6 meters, respectively.

In fact, a large role in this is played by the volume of the chamber increased to 13,2 liters, which allows the use of powder propellant charges weighted by 3 kilograms. At the same time, the chamber did not become wider in the “caliber” - it was simply lengthened by inserting a conical section. Therefore, the 2A82 can be fired with both regular and specially designed ammunition for it, including feathered Vacuum sub-caliber projectiles with a length of up to 900 mm.



Comparison of 2A82 with analogues, including the standard 2A46M. Source: alternathistory.com
Comparison of 2A82 with analogues, including standard 2A46M. Source: alternathistory.com

During the creation of this gun, the developers had to solve a lot of problems, including setting up the production of high-quality durable steel for the new barrel and breech, working out technologies for auto-fastening the barrel and chrome-plating its internal surfaces. The quality control of the products has also been significantly strengthened, since chrome plating literally requires a perfectly flat and clean surface, and the huge pressure when firing can damage the barrel if there are any defects in it.

In 1995, the 2A82 gun was recommended for installation on T-90 tanks, but the test of this gun was scheduled only for 2003, for which one 2A82 mock-up and several spare barrels were made for it. Then the arsenal of testers was replenished with two more experimental guns of this type. By the fall of 2006, the trio had fired about 2 shots. In general, the gun has proven itself to be a reliable and quite suitable system for replacing regular 000A2s in existing tanks.

T-14 "Armata" - so far the only serial carrier 2A82. Source: warfiles.ru
T-14 "Armata" - so far the only conditionally serial carrier 2A82. Source: warfiles.ru

However, in 2010 priorities changed. The Ministry of Defense abandoned the Object 195 tank, and work on the Armata tracked platform, and in particular on the T-14 tank, became a promising area. He became the owner of the 2A82 gun instead of the originally planned T-72, T-80 and T-90. At the same time, the gun had to be modified: it was adapted for a new automatic loader and an uninhabited fighting compartment, after which it received the index 2A82-1M.

2A82 on the T-90M is unlikely to see - too expensive


Indeed, even before the start of mass production of the T-90M, there were reports that a cannon from the Armata could be put on this tank, they say, the car had already been adapted for it, and the production facilities were ready. But the fact remained a fact - the "ninetieth" 2A82 was never registered. There are several reasons for this. Naturally, we do not have access to the secrets of the Ministry of Defense, but we can discuss some facts, since the change of priorities on the T-14 is far from everything.

Installing 2A82 on a tank is, first of all, the possibility of using new, more powerful shells, without which this gun, in general, is not needed. Basically, we are talking about feathered armor-piercing sub-caliber projectiles, the length of which, using increased propellant charges, was brought to 900 mm. Such long "crowbars" cannot fit into a regular T-90M automatic loader. Its refinement is required, which, by the way, has already been carried out at one time when installed on T-90A and T-72B3 tanks. Only then did the loading system have to be upgraded for lead-type projectiles with a length of up to 740 mm.

In this case, it is required to find another 160 extra millimeters. And it's not just about changes in the conveyor ("drum") of the automatic loader, where the projectiles, along with propellant charges, are in a horizontal position. You need to somehow load this long projectile into the cannon.

Source: Gur Khan Attacks Zen Channel

The initial version of the automatic loader involves the vertical lifting of cassettes with shells and propellant charges (sleeves) to the level of the gun, followed by their sending into the breech. But a long projectile, when lifting, just hits this breech. To prevent this from happening, Tagil engineers proposed a new version of the bracket for the cassette lifting mechanism of a peculiar “concave” shape, as a result of which the projectile, as it were, goes around the breech of the gun when it is lifted.

The changes also affected the ramming mechanism, and the loading angle, to which the gun automatically switches after a shot, was increased to 12 degrees. Here, of course, it is not entirely clear whether they began to make improvements to the catcher of spent pallets (metal cups based on cardboard shells), since the design of the gun’s automation provides for the shutter to open only after rolling, so that the crew does not suffocate from gases as a result of using increased propellant charges of gunpowder . But the scope of innovation is clear.

In appearance, these are trifles, but in terms of finances - extra expenses, and not entirely insignificant. Rebuilding of production lines, expanded range of spare parts and structural elements. All this costs money.

But the automatic loader is not the only element that needs to be converted to fit the 2A82. The hull of the tank should also undergo changes. And here again, the increased length of the shells is to blame.

It is quite possible to fit new shells into the tank, as we said above, which was done on single copies of these combat vehicles. The question is different: how now to fit the automatic loader itself into the tank? Due to the long shells and the correspondingly increased diameter of the conveyor, although it is called both a “drum”, and sometimes a “carousel”, in which these same shells are laid, the contours of the automatic loader sweep have increased. This whole structure literally rests on the sides of the tank hull and does not fit into it.

Sweeping contours of standard and modernized automatic loader. Source: Gur Khan Attacks Zen Channel
Sweeping contours of standard and modernized automatic loader. Source: Gur Khan Attacks Zen Channel

In fact, the only way out of this situation are cutouts in the sides of the tank hull. Yes, yes, in the most literal sense - rectangular holes, thanks to which this entire design of the automatic loader can be placed inside the case. Out of bounds, so to speak. Of course, there will be nothing sticking out there, since the elements of the conveyor in the worst case will not reach the outer surface of the side armor. It was planned to cover this vulnerability with steel "patches" - armor strips that were welded over these cutouts.

This decision does not look like a "collective farm", and in principle it does not worsen the security of the sides, but this, again, leads to a change in the technological process of tank production. Extra movements - extra money, you can’t say better here.

But, perhaps, the most important deterrent that influenced the refusal to install 2A82 on the T-90M is the cost and the very possibility of mass production of this gun. According to the plans of the Ministry of Defense, the T-90M tanks should become the basis of the armored forces of Russia, which means that all this "booze" will not do with a conditionally small batch of produced units. Especially now, when the special operation in Ukraine is in full swing.

And this is hundreds of guns, as well as hundreds of additional barrels for replacement. And here, of course, there will be an extremely exaggerated example, but on the whole the situation is very characterizing. In production, regular 2A46, well, let's say 2A46M-5, which is installed on the T-90M, looks like a water pipe compared to 2A82. The novelty is expensive. Very expensive.

A barrel with chrome-plated inner surfaces, high-quality and hard steel for its manufacture, auto-bonding and other technological moments make the gun far from a mass-produced “Kalashnikov assault rifle”, but rather an elite rifle for an equally elite user. The gun in many ways surpasses even the most advanced solution from the German Rheinmetall in the face of the L55 gun for the modernized Leopards-2.

Of course, years later, 2A82 will become an analogue of 2A46 in mass production - all technological moments will be settled, materials for manufacturing will appear in the right amount. But for now, this weapon is distributed according to the elitist principle, the priority of which is just the T-14.

As for the T-90M, the installation of 2A46M-5 guns on these machines looks more appropriate.

Firstly, it will be cheaper in today's realities, and there will be no problems with the mass production of cars.

Secondly, the full potential of regular guns has not yet been used up.

Yes, then we will still come to 2A82, but for now, as they say, we are content with a tit in our hands.
205 comments
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  1. +33
    15 October 2022 05: 48
    I'll write anything on the gun. Not an expert, and the topic is not mine.
    But about the tanks themselves.
    The author, clearly understanding the topic, repeats with a refrain that the main tank of our army was planned and planned to be the T90-M.
    The question arises, what is the future of Almaty?
    Years (and many) have passed since this car was announced and presented as a fact.
    But even now, when the topic of tanks has acquired a "new relevance", they do not write about Armata at all in terms of its actual appearance in the troops and on the theater of operations. They write about the tank for comparison, for "for example", as about a certain standard, but no more than that.
    At this time, the question is: will not Armata repeat the fate of the Buran ship, the AN-225 aircraft, the ekranoplan Eaglet?
    Like, it was created, demonstrated unusually outstanding characteristics, had no analogues, was placed in a museum.
    1. +31
      15 October 2022 05: 59
      well, if an order came in for the modernization of 800 t-62 tanks in 3 years
      I doubt that the current armata has a future, the MO is betting on cheap and in large quantities.
      At best, several experimental samples will be periodically upgraded to keep up with trends and have a base in which case
      1. +2
        15 October 2022 13: 16
        do not confuse warm and soft, due to the NWO and the need to get a large reserve of equipment and modernize what is there. At one time, Hitler played with prodigies, instead of producing the T-4 and Panthers with the first Tigers ... Now the plans for the production of T -14 are being carried out, production is being deployed, BUT the tank is new, the tank is expensive, you need to train not only the crews, but also the service staff, prepare logistics for them. Therefore, the process itself will be lengthy. So ideally, the T-14 will become the main one only in the 30s, together with T-90M
        1. +2
          15 October 2022 14: 11
          what is the new one? t-14 since 2012 already in metal, 10 years, how will you saturate the front there? . 800 pieces of t-62 in 3 years, KARL in 3 YEARS, and not in a month or two, and yes, even with all the upgrades, at best, its protection keeps the RPG-7 out of the tandem version, if it is hung with contact 1 in normal and not empty zones in 50% as we do
          1. -10
            15 October 2022 15: 51
            Well, show me a saucepan, a new tank in the west? Please do not write such nonsense anymore, otherwise you might think that something is wrong with your head.
          2. -8
            15 October 2022 17: 31
            maybe enough nonsense to write about "800 t-62 in 3 years", not to mention the fact that "showed in 2012" does not mean a tank completely ready for production and tested.
            1. -1
              16 October 2022 09: 00
              Before you write nonsense yourself, from the beginning I recommend highlighting the phrase and clicking find and you will understand that you are acting extremely stupid.
              1. +1
                16 October 2022 10: 28
                maybe before commenting, first find out where the phrase about 800 t-62 came from and understand that it is a bit of nonsense?
                1. +1
                  16 October 2022 11: 54
                  "Deputy of the State Duma Andrei Gurulev visited the 103rd armored repair plant in the Trans-Baikal Territory. He said that the enterprise would have to return 800 T-62 tanks to the Russian army from military equipment storage bases."
                  So the liar here is YOU!
                  1. +2
                    16 October 2022 14: 55
                    the main thing is when you are trying to attach a supposedly proof, do not forget to indicate the link. He did NOT mention that we were talking about 800 T-62 tanks, he cited the T-62 as an example, and then announced a contract for 800 tanks. ://vk.com/video-164483734_456254075?t=164483734m456254086s]

                    As you can see, the T-62 is under repair and the T-80 and infantry fighting vehicles and armored vehicles
          3. +14
            15 October 2022 18: 37
            800 tanks in three years, this was not given to some industrial giant. And 103 BTRZ, which ate made ends meet. In addition, it is erroneous information that they will upgrade only 62s. Raise panic because of all the good news. People got jobs and money, this plant is a town-planning plant. And the tanks they modernized will perfectly replenish the reserve and perhaps even not the richest countries will buy them
            1. +3
              16 October 2022 10: 29
              it’s hard for people to even watch the original source of news in the form of a news video. where next to the t-62 they calmly stand under the capital t-80BV
          4. +1
            17 October 2022 06: 58
            Quote: Graz
            . 800pcs t-62 in 3 years, KARL in 3 YEARS, and not in a month or two,

            It's in the same factory, Carl.
            In one factory!
            And on the other, the T-72 is being upgraded to B3 \ B3M (300 units per year).
            Both production from scratch and the modernization of early versions of the T-90 to M.
            And the modernization of the T-80 at two factories at once (Omsk, St. Petersburg).
            And it was decided to return the T-62 to service because another, previously unused, repair plant was able to do this. Because such a modernization is cheaper, easier in terms of the technical process (there is no automatic loader), and there are a lot of these tanks at the bases, as well as a lot of ammunition and spare parts for them.
            Now everything that can be in time and useful in this war is being used. And the quantity and pace of delivery are important.
            And in auxiliary areas, at checkpoints and for controlling territories, such tanks are quite suitable.
            The Sumerians from Eastern Europe will soon get T-55s in general ... or M-60s.
        2. +6
          15 October 2022 14: 56
          .
          Now plans for the production of T-14 are being implemented, production is being deployed,

          Wow .... fantasies played out. Can you confirm something?
          1. +5
            16 October 2022 00: 13
            well, for example, here two days ago the article was about "why are mobs put on the t-14", but in fact there was a video from the Kazan tank, where tankers are trained on the t-14 ... if the t-14 is not produced, then why Are they being taught? It’s a banal problem that everyone thinks that if they weren’t personally told and shown, then this doesn’t exist
      2. -10
        15 October 2022 14: 32
        Can you confirm this order? Although what for I communicate with the Khokhlotroll?
      3. -10
        15 October 2022 15: 54
        First, find out why the T62 is being upgraded! And then write. In Syria, it was even very well used, where the t90 or t72 was needed. So it is in the Salo Reich. And not because there are not enough tanks in Russia.
        1. 0
          16 October 2022 10: 32
          First, find out why the T62 is being upgraded! And then write

          Can you tell me where I can find out about this? I also do not understand why they are modernizing? Are the T-72 and T-80 all suitable for modernization over?
          And what can these machines do and on what theater?
          In Syria, it is even ..

          In Syria, a lot of things were used against the barmai, which we don’t see in Ukraine. Take at least aviation.
      4. +3
        16 October 2022 20: 59
        T14 is an element, and one of the key, sitecentric (hell you pronounce wassat ) war, and units ready for such a war in the NWO are somehow not observed feel what is the point of driving a crocodile-skin shoe into a swamp instead of boots? Therefore, they bet on. Practiced tactics and technique respectively soldier maybe for the assault on Kyiv they will prepare a network-centric brigade of the 21st century, at least to see how it works in general! And does it work at all? laughing
    2. +22
      15 October 2022 06: 32
      Quote: U-58
      The question arises, what is the future of Almaty?

      I also conscientiously read the article and realized that the author has a very indirect relationship with tanks.
      Let me draw some conclusions about Armata and other weapons.
      The Soviet era of creating different types of weapons relied on fans, enthusiasts in their field. It was their craving for non-standard thinking that made it possible to create "analogues in the world".
      Today, this activity in the defense industry is similar to masturbation. They are trying to erect walls on the Soviet foundation, regardless of their height and width. That is why the so-called modernization is going on in the country, which does not at all meet the requirements of modern combat.
      What and who was not satisfied with the "Coalition-SV"? What such a high price stopped the production of "Armat" and other armored vehicles? What prevented the riveting of the Su-57 and the sculpting of strategic aviation? Is it really those 300 dollars stored for a "rainy day"?
      By the way, the modernization of many samples only smooths out the sharp corners of the shortcomings, without giving them new characteristics (often).
      This kind of activity, when equipment is created for parades and for export, is posturing. It appears from the poor technical awareness of the design bureau. They act completely differently where the country's defense capability comes first.
      *****
      Tell me, how did those 200 Forbes billionaires from Russia come in handy for the country? But 200 Su-57s could come in handy, or what other Admirals Kuznetsovs ...
      Modernization is, of course, good when it is not an end in itself.
      It is only worth remembering that we do not need “good”, we need “perfect”.
      hi
      1. Eug
        +22
        15 October 2022 07: 17
        I will add - the development of "analogues in the world" in the current realities is also a way of "packaging" budgetary (basically) funds into the right pockets ...
      2. -6
        15 October 2022 13: 18
        how much they wrote ... a simple question, but why did you decide that they stopped producing the Coalition, Armata, Su-57? and yes ... we just need a lot and good than little, but flawlessly.
        1. -3
          15 October 2022 14: 38
          Quote: Barberry25
          a simple question, why did you decide that the Coalition, Armata, Su-57 were no longer produced

          According to the results of the use in the war ...
          Quote: Barberry25
          and yes ... we just need a lot and good than little, but flawlessly.

          A similar theme was raised in Sparta. And they proved to the world that one warrior is better than a thousand disguised and armed artisans and plowmen...
          *****
          I remember that getting involved in a discussion with you is fraught.
          Here are just self-propelled systems that shoot at 70 km, which:
          are designed to destroy tactical nuclear weapons, artillery and mortar batteries, tanks and other armored vehicles, anti-tank weapons, manpower, air defense and missile defense systems, command posts, as well as to destroy field fortifications and obstruct maneuvers of enemy reserves in the depths of his defense.

          Much better than those that shoot at 40 km ...
          Let there be 10 of them, but they will not be able to hit a target at a distance of more than 40 km ...
          By the way, the inconspicuous Su-57, which is armed with Kh-58s and not only:
          Cannon: 30 mm built-in gun 9A1-4071K (modernized GSh-30-1, rate of fire and recoil energy preserved)
          Combat load: 1310-16 000 kg
          for air combat, in the main weapons compartments:
          8 × RVV-SD
          2 × RVV-MD
          6 × RVV-BD R-37M[103][104]
          against ground targets, in the main weapon bays:
          special aerial bomb developed by VNIITF[105]
          8 × CAB-500
          4 × X-38
          4 × Kh-58UShK
          CAB-1500
          CAB-250
          4 or 2 × Kh-59MK2
          Suspension points:
          internal: 10 (2 in side cargo compartments and 8 in 2 main cargo compartments)
          external: 8 or 6; installation of double pylons is possible.

          would make a rustle much more than the same ...
          1. -10
            15 October 2022 17: 28
            1) ingenious logic about "according to the results of application" ... I don’t even want to comment on this
          2. +2
            15 October 2022 18: 18
            Quote: yuriy55

            A similar theme was raised in Sparta. And they proved to the world that one warrior is better than a thousand disguised and armed artisans and plowmen...
            *****
            would make a rustle much more than the same ...
            And where State of Sparta...
            The capital of Hellas is Athens...
            The practice of wars shows - the personnel army is knocked out in the first months of the war - further to the front are sent "armed artisans and plowmen" ...
            In the United States (which everyone looks up to or puts as an example ...) there is a "professional army" and there is National guard - and in all the wars of the United States (Iraq or Afghanistan), the National Guard took part along with the regular army.
            hi
            1. +6
              15 October 2022 18: 33
              Quote: cat Rusich
              National guard - and in all the wars of the United States (Iraq or Afghanistan), the National Guard took part along with the regular army.

              You don’t understand a little what the National Guard is, they are an integral part of the Army and the Air Force, they are formed only from soldiers and officers who served, they regularly (several times a year) conduct exercises. There are only 2 differences:
              1. Dual subordination to the federal authorities and the governor of the state
              2. Less regular exercises.
              Go further reservists, these are civilians who have already served, but they are also called up for exercises, service (at least 39 days of military service per year) and wars, then storerooms and civilians.

              The National Guard consists of:

              Army National Guard
              Air National Guard

              Regular reserves consist of:

              Army Reserve
              Navy Reserve
              Marine Corps Reserve
              Air Force Reserve
              Coast Guard Reserve
          3. -1
            16 October 2022 15: 05
            Quote: yuriy55
            Quote: Barberry25
            a simple question, why did you decide that the Coalition, Armata, Su-57 were no longer produced

            According to the results of the use in the war ...
            Quote: Barberry25
            and yes ... we just need a lot and good than little, but flawlessly.

            A similar theme was raised in Sparta. And they proved to the world that one warrior is better than a thousand disguised and armed artisans and plowmen...
            *****
            I remember that getting involved in a discussion with you is fraught.
            Here are just self-propelled systems that shoot at 70 km, which:
            are designed to destroy tactical nuclear weapons, artillery and mortar batteries, tanks and other armored vehicles, anti-tank weapons, manpower, air defense and missile defense systems, command posts, as well as to destroy field fortifications and obstruct maneuvers of enemy reserves in the depths of his defense.

            Much better than those that shoot at 40 km ...
            Let there be 10 of them, but they will not be able to hit a target at a distance of more than 40 km ...
            By the way, the inconspicuous Su-57, which is armed with Kh-58s and not only:
            Cannon: 30 mm built-in gun 9A1-4071K (modernized GSh-30-1, rate of fire and recoil energy preserved)
            Combat load: 1310-16 000 kg
            for air combat, in the main weapons compartments:
            8 × RVV-SD
            2 × RVV-MD
            6 × RVV-BD R-37M[103][104]
            against ground targets, in the main weapon bays:
            special aerial bomb developed by VNIITF[105]
            8 × CAB-500
            4 × X-38
            4 × Kh-58UShK
            CAB-1500
            CAB-250
            4 or 2 × Kh-59MK2
            Suspension points:
            internal: 10 (2 in side cargo compartments and 8 in 2 main cargo compartments)
            external: 8 or 6; installation of double pylons is possible.

            would make a rustle much more than the same ...

            And how did Sparta end? I do not dispute what you said, but the quantity also matters. And the fighting in Ukraine proved it.
            Otherwise, why carry out partial mobilization.
            But undoubtedly the use of the Su-57 and the Coalition in Ukraine is justified. What's the point of making them if you don't use them.
            Including other funds that, for example, Khodakovsky spoke about and which gather dust in warehouses.
      3. -10
        15 October 2022 15: 57
        How do you imagine clipart new technique? What do you think, he fixed the plane with a new one and that's it! And you do not take into account the logistics, it is not worth anything. That's why
        for a start, they prepare logistics, and then clipart planes, and not like in the usa6, not knowing what to do with them now with f35, they fall and do not have time to repair, but they riveted.
    3. +9
      15 October 2022 07: 01
      Quote: U-58
      The question arises, what is the future of Almaty?

      Judging by the caption to the photo of Almaty, the author is not only a specialist, but also an optimist
      T-14 "Armata" - so far the only serial carrier 2A82. Source: warfiles.ru
    4. +11
      15 October 2022 08: 27
      the main tank of our army


      It won't, objectively it won't.

      The main MBT T-72A / B from canned food, T-80 of all versions and 800 T-62M.

      How many T-90M? A total of 160 vehicles have been contracted. And the pace of the battalion level per year. You can also contract 100500, but this will prevent a rather expensive and complex tank from appearing en masse. There is also another question about real import substitution (I remind you of one T-90M captured by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and probably already by senior comrades from NATO, they will reveal gray imports with sanctions). And one more question about money, again for 23 years everyone will squeeze the Wishlist under the kicks of Mishustin and Siluanov.
      1. -5
        15 October 2022 13: 19
        and since when did the BTRZ begin to make the T-90? not to mention the fact that it was a contract for 800 tanks, and not specifically the T-62M ...
        1. +8
          15 October 2022 16: 32
          UVZ makes them, but the same UVZ was loaded with thoroughly more pressing concerns.

          Well, money will count every penny in the next 3-5 years for sure.
          1. -5
            15 October 2022 17: 33
            I don’t know what exactly they loaded UVZ with, otherwise they’ll give 10 years as a gift, but that all armored factories loaded the order is a fact. It seems that we have about 8 armored personnel carriers, it can be assumed that 150-170 vehicles will be shipped per month in general.
          2. 0
            16 October 2022 15: 38
            Quote: donavi49
            UVZ makes them, but the same UVZ was loaded with thoroughly more pressing concerns.

            Well, money will count every penny in the next 3-5 years for sure.

            And that means making an urgent decision on the progressive scale of personal income tax, on the state monopoly on alcohol, which Zhirinovsky also proposed, and to deal with corruption and theft in a tough way.
            We walked and it’s good, it’s time to put things in order, otherwise there won’t be enough money.
      2. +9
        15 October 2022 17: 53
        Quote: donavi49
        How many T-90M?
        Let's remember history. The newest T-90MS was first presented at the Russian Expo Arms exhibition in 2011, since then over two thousand T-90 units of various modifications have been produced, of which more than 1 have been exported.

        In 2020, Dmitry Shugaev, director of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, said on July 6 that Moscow intended to export the latest Armata T-14 tanks as well. Later, they changed their minds, in August 2021, a reservation appeared that the Russian army should receive the tank first.

        How many new tanks do we have? In any case, there could be more of them if the army was initially equipped according to the principle - "first think about the Motherland, and then about yourself." The credo of our capitalism is profit, currency. Especially at the sale of natural resources and the Soviet military heritage. Therefore, there are few new tanks, a shoemaker without boots, and, it’s not about the high cost, our tank (T-90M) is six times cheaper than Western models.

        By the way, billions flowed over the hill from Russia every month, and for 300 billion squandered under sanctions, no one punished Nabiullina, our Central Bank is still headed by an IMF agent.

        About "comrades from NATO", our secrets, for example, Turkish "comrades" from NATO were sold S-400s, what to worry about tanks.
        In such a trade, it's better to have a pie in the sky than a duck under the bed.
        1. +3
          16 October 2022 10: 11
          About "comrades from NATO", our secrets, so for example


          It's not about secrets, but about components. They identify the manufacturer, give a cap, like the French Sofradir was given a cap for circumventing sanctions, or they establish a leak and give the importer a cap. Well, etc.
          1. +2
            16 October 2022 17: 11
            Quote: donavi49
            It's not about secrets, but about components.
            It seems to be related. How long have they boasted that the T-90 has become a "world bestseller". The number of tanks exported - including vehicle kits for production under license - is in the thousands, as UVZ representatives told TASS at the MILEX 2021 arms exhibition in Minsk. Why sell licenses for the production of the latest tank at all, to whom we were given a hat for this?

            Here the author of the article writes, right in the title, - "The T-90M does not have a gun from the Armata, and it is unlikely to have one." On the T-95 (object 195), 152 mm 2A83 was installed, for the sake of this the whole garden was fenced, but is it possible at all to put a 14 mm cannon, such as 152A2, on the T-83, or here, as with the T-90 on the 2A82 gun, so will there be problems with the dimensions of the case?

            Second, wasn't it too expensive and risky to create a "platform" on a very expensive, complex, and, most importantly, crude base (Armata)?
            Who will be responsible for burying an almost finished tank with a 152 mm gun and starting to create this "set", which has no analogues. They really don’t exist, because the time-tested, technological equipment mastered by the industry, which has proven itself well in the troops, and not a pig in a poke, has always become a platform.
            Much depends on such decisions whether we will have order in the tank units.
    5. +4
      15 October 2022 08: 48
      Eduard, a question of this kind - we have a T80 of the same dimensions as the T72 / T90, but a 80mm caliber gun was installed on the T152. How did they push it in there, how did they place the ammunition load, how did they solve the problem with loading? The A282 gun is placed in the T72 turret, this is not the biggest problem, but the problem with the placement of "new", including elongated bops, which can be solved, the main thing, as they say, is to want to do it and not interfere with people's work.
      1. +1
        15 October 2022 11: 29
        the problem with the placement of "new", including elongated bops, which can be solved, the main thing, as they say, is to want to do it and not interfere with people's work.

        The problem is solved by installing another AZ in the rear of the tower during the modernization. Moreover, it is necessary to load only BOPS into it, since they are less prone to detonation in the event of being hit by roof-piercing shells.
        1. +1
          15 October 2022 15: 00
          The problem is solved by installing another AZ in the rear of the tower during the modernization. Moreover, it is necessary to load only BOPS into it, since they are less prone to detonation in the event of being hit by roof-piercing shells.

          There and the usual mortar mine in the teeth.
          1. -1
            15 October 2022 15: 15
            Quote: Konnick
            There and the usual mortar mine in the teeth.
            Well, a mine will fall into an armored box. which is attached to the tower, the charges may burn out, so what?
            1. +3
              15 October 2022 15: 27
              Well, a mine will fall into an armored box. which is attached to the tower, the charges may burn out, so what?

              But nothing .... just the tank will become incapacitated.
              1. -2
                15 October 2022 15: 32
                Quote: Konnick
                But nothing .... just the tank will become incapacitated.
                Justify.
              2. +6
                15 October 2022 15: 55
                Quote: Konnick
                But nothing .... just the tank will become incapacitated.

                This arrangement of ammunition is used in many Western tanks: in the Abrams, in the Leclerc, in the Japanese Type 90. The goal is to take the ammunition out of the habitable compartment in order to save the lives of the crew. The tank will not be combat-ready, but subject to restoration. Especially if there are BOPS in this ammunition rack, which are less prone to detonation. Powder charges will burn out, but there are no explosives in them.
                There and the usual mortar mine in the teeth.

                A mortar mine can also hit the engine compartment and disable the tank and what ....? No. Tanks no longer relevant?
                1. 0
                  15 October 2022 21: 41
                  Quote: Askold65
                  The goal is to take the ammunition out of the habitable compartment in order to save the lives of the crew. The tank will not be combat-ready, but subject to restoration.


                  Unlike Abrams, the T-90M's external ammo rack has no communication with the interior of the tank and is located outside the armored turret.
                  This is an additional portable ammunition that the military insisted on. Undermining it will not lead to anything fatal.
    6. +9
      15 October 2022 08: 53
      The Ministry of Defense does not allocate money for the normal modernization of tanks, what is presented as "modernization" (T-72B3 / 80BVM) was relevant for the mid-90s. There definitely won’t be enough funds for Armata, and the tank is very controversial, I won’t be surprised at the appearance of devastating articles about it from structures affiliated with the Ministry of Defense.
      There were interesting options for the development of the T-72/80 line, but they were slaughtered. 2A82 would have stood there, there is AZ in the rear of the tower. Yes, it is more expensive than the T-90M, but in any case they are cheaper than the Armata and the T-90M project is clearly outdated by 10-20 years before the M1A2S and 2A7 + looks extremely faded.


      PS For all these projects, the MO has money directly. Only they are spent in a sabotage way, on projects that have no combat value, are not effectively spent on the purchase and maintenance of the same type but different equipment and outright theft.
      1. -4
        15 October 2022 09: 35
        Only they are spent in a sabotage way, on projects that have no combat value, are not effectively spent on the purchase and maintenance of the same type but different equipment and outright theft

        Same with this gun. And placing shells behind the tower is just a delicacy for roofers, even for an ordinary mortar.
      2. -1
        15 October 2022 09: 55
        What a pity that you are not the Minister of Mechanical Engineering and not the Minister of Defense in one glass. You know exactly what tanks are needed and in what quantity, and you also know 100% exactly how to organize the production of the required vehicles. And you can probably also combine the Minister of Finance, Nabiullina obviously does not know where to find money for all the Wishlist.

        By the way, I'm curious to know about wrecking projects, I really love conspiracy theories.
      3. 0
        24 October 2022 20: 02
        2A7 Leopolds are even smaller than Armat ... T-90 is a fairly massive tank. Even M-k is already decently riveted. There is not even an order for 2A7 ... It is very expensive, but in fact it will not give any advantage. Arte doesn’t care at all about the T-90, armata or Leopold is driving, with a direct hit - there is no chance. Minam doesn't care either. And to suppress a machine-gun point or smoke out a sniper at the end of the street, 2A7 will perform no better than some T72b3 thread. That's the whole story.
        In a tank duel, yes, at a long distance, yes on a flat surface, and so that it’s not the Arctic and minus 50, yes, 2A7 will probably win against t72b3 ... And somewhere on the streets of the city, colliding nose to nose, whoever shoots first will win. ..
        The new equipment will go after the CBO, because now the factories are inundated with other orders. Moreover, less production, and more removal from storage and modernization of tanks, of which we have thousands of pieces.
    7. +4
      15 October 2022 11: 56
      Quote: U-58
      The question arises, what is the future of Almaty?

      The future of Almaty is the brightest and most festive. Destiny and destiny - to shine in parades.
      And why, in fact, not? The military has a dress uniform, but there is a field one. And now they have, respectively, field and parade tanks.
    8. 0
      15 October 2022 21: 42
      The fate of the armata in the form in which it exists is debatable even without a monetary issue. Kaz does not allow protecting the upper hemisphere, all hope is for a smoke screen ... The thin-walled casing poorly protects very expensive electronics (sights, radar). The survivability of the crew is great, but the vehicle must also be not only survivable, but also combat-ready, especially if we are talking about a tank - a front-line weapon. I will be very surprised if in this form the armature will be adopted.
      1. 0
        15 October 2022 21: 57
        Quote: Timur_kz
        Kaz does not allow to protect the upper hemisphere, all hope for a smoke screen ...
        The upper hemisphere was also covered by KAZ "Arena-M" (links to an interview with the director of the enterprise that produces this KAZ, and I gave his story about its capabilities on VO twice already). And "Afghanit" is an even more advanced version of KAZ.
        Quote: Timur_kz
        The thin-walled casing poorly protects very expensive electronics (sights, radar).
        And how are they protected by other tanks? Here, for comparison, the T-14 and Abrams, with approximately the same tricks on the tower:
        1. 0
          15 October 2022 22: 55
          You can see where the shock mortars are located - under the tower. From strikes from above, the Afghanite shoots a multi-spectral veil. They say that it is cheaper than its counterparts (radar is simpler), and even intercepts bops. But this is from the wiki. No one saw the Afghan test, unlike the arena, and then, one RPG interception and that's it. I have not heard that they put the arena on the armature, they put it on the t90m. again, if the designers say that afghanite is cheaper and more efficient than analogues, then where is it in series, at least in the form of an experimental batch?

          As for the casing, the photo just shows that the forehead of the abrashka will absorb the main energy. But a blow to the armata tower will demolish all superstructures on the left or right (where it will fly), because there is nothing behind the casing, there is a gun carriage.
          1. 0
            16 October 2022 00: 18
            Quote: Timur_kz
            You can see where the shock mortars are located - under the tower.

            A submunition is fired from a mortar from which an impact core is fired sideways. I don’t know for sure, but firing an impact core upwards, with such a design, is not a problem.
    9. 0
      15 October 2022 22: 21
      The state does not have money for the serial production of Almaty, everyone went to yachts and palaces
      1. -2
        16 October 2022 15: 48
        Quote: OLEG CZIGANOV
        The state does not have money for the serial production of Almaty, everyone went to yachts and palaces

        Here and there I say all the time that chickens do not peck money in Russia, only they are in the wrong pockets.
    10. 0
      16 October 2022 11: 44
      A small party in the troops already. Even in an operation like one tank begins to participate (or maybe more than one).
      There are a lot of new products in the tank and it’s not worth letting it into the mix right away. All the same, it is better to run it in conditions, as they say, close to combat. To reveal in business its opportunities and shortcomings.
      And the equipment that is fighting, such as the T-90 and T-72, is not very bad. And along the way, only issues of additional protection are being resolved. This is somewhat faster in terms of capabilities, there are many of these types of tanks, and also cheaper.
    11. 0
      17 October 2022 09: 59
      Excuse me, dear, firstly, the armata is a very expensive tank, and secondly, in the USSR there were ten times the production capacity, however, how much was t72 in 1974? (T72 was adopted in 1973, T14 in 2021, according to the wiki, and I don’t see any reason not to believe them). An example of t72, because t72 was a new platform at that time. In 50 years, tens of thousands of tanks will also be made on the basis of armata, but not a year after the start of operation!
    12. 0
      17 October 2022 13: 15
      It seems that all this "unparalleled" equipment on the Armata platform will remain parade and exhibition ... The Moscow Region does not like it for various reasons.
      And the troops continue to "use" the Soviet military legacy, and the Ministry of Defense seems to be happy with this ...
    13. TIR
      0
      17 October 2022 22: 06
      It was planned, as I understand it, at the first stage of rearmament to use the T-14 as a command tank. In the concept of network-centricity, he had to detect targets and give target designations for them for the T-72B3 and T-90M. Then, with the full development of the production of the T-14, gradually withdraw the T-72B3 and leave the T-90M with the Armata in conjunction. This is the second stage. The third was already a complete transition to the Armata platform and heavy infantry fighting vehicles based on it
      1. 0
        24 October 2022 19: 51
        No, the battalions will be immediately re-equipped on the T-14. He will not go like a command tank. And it was never meant to be. Mixing technology in one unit, and even so different, is stupidity. Not even a variety of components and ammunition, although this is also, but the main issue of the personnel ... In battles, there are losses, armature was knocked out, the gunner survived, but he needs to be retrained on the t-72, because there is a completely different fire control and fire control system. And then the fighting and no time to learn. Therefore, 1000% will not interfere.
    14. 0
      19 October 2022 07: 38
      Quote: U-58

      The question arises, what is the future of Almaty?

      Unfortunately, the saddest thing The uninhabited tower carries a significant number of video cameras and sensors along the perimeter. With a close detonation of anything, all this electronics can fail, and the crew remains practically blind. Yes, the driver has triplexes, but the rest?
      And one more nuance: like any tank / infantry fighting vehicle / etc., it will be necessary to maintain and repair. Who's going to be messing around with all that electronics in parts?
      Most likely, Armata will die over time, the main tank will be the good old t-90 (t-72) in its next modernized version.
    15. 0
      24 October 2022 19: 45
      Everything is simple. Horses are not changed at the crossing. That is why during the Second World War the production of SVT and ABC was curtailed, although these were really the best rifles of that time and the same Germans used the captured ones with pleasure, but instead of them they began to produce mosquitoes, although by that time they had already become obsolete.
      Because they can be produced a lot, and the personnel know them well (and the axis called on many people who went through 1 world and civil wars).
      It is the same here, from the Armat battalion, nothing will radically change. 152/155 mm projectile doesn’t care what kind of tank it is, aroma or Leopard or Abrams. Minam doesn’t care either ... But there are no stocks of spare parts for them. For at least 25-30% of equipment failure, this is not enemy damage, but wear of parts and mechanisms.
      Therefore, it is stupid to wait until the end of the NWO state order for fittings. Tank factories are inundated with orders not even for production, but for repairs and modernization. We have thousands of T-80s and T-72s, but even those that are in conservation need modernization. And those that just stand on the street at the sites need thorough repairs and modernization. The whole vnutryanka is put from scratch. But such tanks can be prepared in hundreds, per month. It could have been thousands, but we don’t have so many tankers, plus we also need to repair and remove from conservation both artillery and infantry fighting vehicles. And this is a top priority.
      After the SVO, it is logical to assume that they will begin to introduce new equipment into the troops, but not before that.
  2. +12
    15 October 2022 05: 55
    A very sensible presentation! The author clearly dotted "all i"! But I, at one time, "bought" for the 2A82-1M gun for the T-90! request So ... do not be capricious ... eat what they give!
    1. +13
      15 October 2022 07: 04
      Bought in vain. The installation of a new gun in the T-90 has been worked out.

      The gun is not in the series for the same reason why the T-72B3 is still being produced. There are not enough workers. Yes, and the budget is not rubber, but in the Russian Federation not all parts are yet, although the T-72B3.

      People love to throw slogans off the couch, like give the country 1000 armats, 300 Su-57s, 50 super pots. But how a state with 150 million people with almost complete autarky will produce all this, they have no idea.
      In the Russian Federation, there is one plant left that can fully produce tanks. And he is loaded to the very ears. And Omsk is loaded with modernization. And everything that they produce also needs tank guns. Not prodigies a teaspoon per hour, but a lot now. Otherwise, the conveyor will stop.
      1. +6
        15 October 2022 08: 06
        Quote: demiurg
        And Omsk is loaded with modernization

        The fact that "Omsk is loaded with modernization" is, one might say, a "miracle of the Great Manitou"! I had to somehow read a report by a journalist who visited the Omsk plant, somewhere, in the late 90s and early 2000s ... He described how the plant survived ... renting out premises, in industrial premises (former! ) -tans for breeding trout!
        1. 0
          15 October 2022 13: 35
          Quote: demiurg
          The gun is not in the series for the same reason why the T-72B3 is still being produced.
          Everywhere they write about the modernization of old tanks to the level of T-72B3. If you have other information (release of new T-72B3), give a link to the source of information.

          Quote: demiurg
          In the Russian Federation, there is one plant left that can fully produce tanks. And he is loaded to the very ears. And Omsk is loaded with modernization. And everything that they produce also needs tank guns.
          "Omsk Transport Engineering Plant" and "Plant No. 9", which makes, among other things, tank barrels, are part of UVZ
      2. 0
        15 October 2022 08: 19
        In the Russian Federation, there is one plant left that can fully produce tanks.

        If you are talking about UVZ, then this is not a full-fledged plant, but an assembly plant. The engine, weapons, optoelectronic equipment are all produced by other factories. He absorbed some, such as Omsktransmash, and even took advantage of their developments. And the automatic loader of the Kharkov development.
        1. +10
          15 October 2022 09: 24
          Quote: Konnick
          And the automatic loader of the Kharkov development.

          In fact, the T-64 and T-80 were equipped with "loading mechanisms" - MZ (MZA). Yes, they come from Kharkov. T-72 and T-90 be equipped with their native (Ural) "automatic loaders" (AZ). Even the way they work is different. The first is hydraulic, the second is electromechanical.
          1. -2
            15 October 2022 09: 45
            Even the way they work is different. The first is hydraulic, the second is electromechanical

            The difference is in the drive, but not in the design, but they changed the location of the sleeve, but this is not ice. Yes, and the name was changed, there was a "loading mechanism" became an "automatic loader".
            1. +5
              15 October 2022 11: 06
              Quote: Konnick
              Even the way they work is different. The first is hydraulic, the second is electromechanical

              The difference is in the drive, but not in the design, but they changed the location of the sleeve, but this is not ice. Yes, and the name was changed, there was a "loading mechanism" became an "automatic loader".

              Well, for us neophytes, perhaps “the same eggs, only in profile”, but the designers say something else - fundamentally separating the Nizhny Tagil unit from the Kharkov one.
              By the way, a structurally similar automatic loader was also offered by Tagil T-62! But the car with an additional roller, automatic loader and a new engine was refused production. We decided to "take" the T-64! Due to the short-sightedness of the leadership of the USSR, Omsk riveted "55-k" until the beginning of the 80s.
        2. +6
          15 October 2022 09: 34
          Quote: Konnick
          And the automatic loader of the Kharkov development.

          There was a whiff of the thin-hooked baron. Sorry if that.

          There have never been full-cycle tank factories on the entire planet. Even during the Second World War, guns and engines for Tankograd were produced by other factories.
          1. -1
            15 October 2022 10: 04
            Even during the Second World War, guns and an engine for Tankograd

            Actually, Tankograd is Chelyabinsk, not Nizhny Tagil. Yes, the guns are foreign, everything else is ours. And the engine is now Chelyabinsk.
        3. 0
          16 October 2022 12: 03
          A decision was made to create and funding was allocated for 2 more tank repair plants. I think that not only for repair but also for the production of new products.
          1. -1
            16 October 2022 15: 57
            Quote: svoroponov
            A decision was made to create and funding was allocated for 2 more tank repair plants. I think that not only for repair but also for the production of new products.

            There was no need to bankrupt the old ones. There was an article about this here on V.O.
            We do not have enough capacity everywhere, both in the aircraft and shipbuilding industries.
      3. +9
        15 October 2022 11: 49
        Quote: demiurg
        There are not enough workers. And the budget is not rubber,

        The hypothetical budget for these products is safely spent on all kinds of sports and other shows and cuts. And the $300 billion frozen in Western financial institutions will go to the budgets of other countries. There was money, but it was squandered.
        The problem of workers stems from the same reason - underfunding hits the wage fund, on which material incentives for "workers" depend.
        Quote: demiurg
        But how a state with 150 million people with almost complete autarky will produce all this, they have no idea

        And how the Republic of Korea (South) produces almost EVERYTHING! with its 51 million people? That is, we see that the population is not quite a determining criterion. The main problem is the adequacy of the leadership of the ruling "elite" of our country.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. -4
          15 October 2022 16: 51
          Quote: Askold65
          And how the Republic of Korea (South) produces almost EVERYTHING! with its 51 million people? That is, we see that the population is not quite a determining criterion. The main problem is the adequacy of the leadership of the ruling "elite" of our country

          You still see Singapore as an example ....
          1. +5
            15 October 2022 19: 36
            Quote: Alexey Sedykin
            You still see Singapore as an example

            I have not heard that Singapore ranks first in the world in the construction of ships, that it is one of the leading manufacturers of household electrical appliances and cars. I have not heard about Singaporean processors or the ability of this country to produce 5th generation fighter jets, etc. In this matter, South Korea can only be put on a par with France, in terms of the ratio of population to the technological capabilities of the economy.
        3. 0
          16 October 2022 16: 00
          Quote: Askold65
          Quote: demiurg
          There are not enough workers. And the budget is not rubber,

          The hypothetical budget for these products is safely spent on all kinds of sports and other shows and cuts. And the $300 billion frozen in Western financial institutions will go to the budgets of other countries. There was money, but it was squandered.
          The problem of workers stems from the same reason - underfunding hits the wage fund, on which material incentives for "workers" depend.
          Quote: demiurg
          But how a state with 150 million people with almost complete autarky will produce all this, they have no idea

          And how the Republic of Korea (South) produces almost EVERYTHING! with its 51 million people? That is, we see that the population is not quite a determining criterion. The main problem is the adequacy of the leadership of the ruling "elite" of our country.

          And South Korea also produces guns and cars and electronics and ships ... including tankers and gas carriers
          And they have a navy at the level.
          Maybe they steal less and management is more efficient.
          1. -1
            16 October 2022 16: 01
            Quote: Ulan.1812
            Quote: Askold65
            Quote: demiurg
            There are not enough workers. And the budget is not rubber,

            The hypothetical budget for these products is safely spent on all kinds of sports and other shows and cuts. And the $300 billion frozen in Western financial institutions will go to the budgets of other countries. There was money, but it was squandered.
            The problem of workers stems from the same reason - underfunding hits the wage fund, on which material incentives for "workers" depend.
            Quote: demiurg
            But how a state with 150 million people with almost complete autarky will produce all this, they have no idea

            And how the Republic of Korea (South) produces almost EVERYTHING! with its 51 million people? That is, we see that the population is not quite a determining criterion. The main problem is the adequacy of the leadership of the ruling "elite" of our country.

            And South Korea also produces guns and cars and electronics and ships ... including tankers and gas carriers
            And they have a navy at the level.
            Maybe they steal less and management is more efficient.

            Tanks of course.
          2. +1
            17 October 2022 16: 26
            Quote: Ulan.1812
            Maybe they steal less and management is more efficient.

            I don’t know how it is with theft, but the fact that almost every prime minister after the term of “premiership” is sent to prison for corruption is a well-known fact. laughing
            1. 0
              17 October 2022 18: 06
              Quote: Askold65
              Quote: Ulan.1812
              Maybe they steal less and management is more efficient.

              I don’t know how it is with theft, but the fact that almost every prime minister after the term of “premiership” is sent to prison for corruption is a well-known fact. laughing

              However, a good tradition.
        4. 0
          17 October 2022 03: 43
          The Republic of North Korea has China behind it.
          In general, to judge how people live there, you have to go there. And reality will not please you.
          1. +1
            17 October 2022 16: 19
            Quote: svoroponov
            The Republic of North Korea has China behind it.

            You didn't read my post carefully. I pointed to the Republic of Korea (the one that is South), and not the DPRK (North Korea).
            From North Korea, the Russian Federation buys machine tools, which not so long ago they produced themselves and transferred the technologies for their production to the North Koreans. In the Russian Federation, the machine tool industry was practically ruined by "effective managers" and now ...
  3. 0
    15 October 2022 06: 21
    A barrel with chrome-plated inner surfaces, high-quality and hard steel for its manufacture, auto-bonding and other technological moments make the gun far from a mass-produced “Kalashnikov assault rifle”, but rather an elite rifle for an equally elite user.

    The AK also has a chrome barrel ... what
    1. +3
      15 October 2022 07: 03
      Quote: Maxim G
      The AK also has a chrome barrel ...

      I'll tell you a state secret... My shotgun is also chrome-plated wassat laughing lol
      1. +4
        15 October 2022 07: 06
        My Vepr-12 smoothbore carbine also has elite rifles, and we are elite users)).
      2. +3
        15 October 2022 11: 47
        Quote: NDR-791
        My shotgun is chromed too

        Does the wife know? recourse
    2. Eug
      0
      15 October 2022 07: 20
      I know about the chamber, the barrel seemed to be going, but again, because of the high cost, they refused.
      1. 0
        15 October 2022 07: 26
        Chrome plated for a long time.
        My Vepr-12, based on the RPK, also has a fully chromed barrel.
    3. +1
      15 October 2022 18: 05
      Can you imagine the difference between chrome plating on an automatic and cannon barrel? The principle "everything is the same, but the detail is larger" does not work here.
      1. 0
        18 October 2022 10: 23
        Well, a bigger bath, the principle is the same. Small parts inside are even more difficult to chrome - you have to insert a knitting needle, insert it even exactly in the center.
        1. -1
          19 October 2022 11: 44
          Quote from SincerityX
          Well, a bigger bath, the principle is the same.

          No, not the same. On a large part and a smooth trunk, the uniformity of the layer thickness and tolerances are an order of magnitude higher. The thickness and coverage itself is greater. Plus, substrates made of other materials are required to hold sooooo high pressure. Chromium is not oh how it falls on alloy steels. It's like comparing AK and Iskander.
  4. -3
    15 October 2022 06: 41
    Everything is logical, the capabilities of the 2A46 are now enough for the eyes, the gun is good and reliable, but over time, in a year and a half or two, when Ukrainians will not only be massively supplied with Western Leopards and Leclercs with Abrams, but the crews of Ukrainians in the west will be massively trained, they can there will be problems of armor penetration of the frontal parts of Western tanks. With the current course of the war, this is a matter of a couple of years and it will arise, since in the same couple of years the air defense of Ukrainians will surpass the Russian air defense in the same couple of years, which will automatically land not many of the remaining planes and helicopters and deprive us of the possibility of anti-tank combat from the air. Therefore, the 2A82 gun must be slowly launched into series.
    1. -4
      15 October 2022 11: 55
      Quote: barbiturate
      there may be problems with armor penetration of the frontal parts of Western tanks

      This can be dealt with more effectively by saturating the front edge with cheaper anti-tank systems, and then the shortage of 2A82 tank guns will decrease significantly because
      2A46 capabilities are now enough for the eyes, the gun is good and reliable
      1. +2
        15 October 2022 13: 05
        Quote: Prosha
        This can be dealt with more effectively by saturating the front edge with cheaper anti-tank systems, and then the shortage of 2A82 tank guns will decrease significantly because


        Maybe, but there is just the same risk as with the 2A46 gun, namely: we still don’t have the 3rd generation ATGM of the “fire-and-forget” type and the ATGM crew is very vulnerable to return fire, especially modern Western tanks that have excellent SLA and independent observation channels for the gunner and commander + UAVs that are becoming more and more widespread for reconnaissance.
        Also, ATGMs and RPGs are not yet visible, which would hit the tank in the roof of the tower, in the cannon, in the MTO, etc. generally on top. That is, with the proper use of tanks (and NATO will teach and prompt Ukrainians, and they themselves are not fools), we will hammer into the same muzzle of the car and it’s not a fact that we will break through, especially considering another extremely alarming factor - mass equipment with active protection systems Western tanks, in addition, with their industry, they can do this very quickly and any low-speed target simply will not reach and the consumption will be up to a dozen ATGMs and RPGs per tank, and even without much success.
    2. -4
      15 October 2022 13: 22
      Well, as it were, the T-72b3 can quite easily hit Leopards and Abrams ... or do you believe that they will be given the latest versions? leo 2a4 maximum and Abdolbanus head against the wall with a 105 mm gun
      1. +1
        15 October 2022 14: 32
        Quote: Barberry25
        well, as it were, the T-72b3 can quite easily hit both Leopards and Abrams

        Well, I wouldn’t be so sure, I didn’t see the data of executions of the frontal parts of modern Western tanks by our BPS from 2A46.
        Quote: Barberry25
        or do you believe that they will be given the latest versions?

        and what is there to believe or not believe, because NATO gives Khokhols the most modern means of communication, reconnaissance, surveillance, MLRS, small arms and anti-tank systems (RPGs), drones and so far light armored vehicles, the latest self-propelled guns and a bunch of the latest guided missiles ... the case remains small, especially now NATO also wants to supply the most modern air defense systems, so it’s easy to start supplying tanks soon, it’s just that ours haven’t had much success so far and we’re stuck, or we’re retreating, or the front has stopped in one place, that’s all.
        Ours hit the rear and modern air defense systems have already gone to Ukraine, and if there is success in the attack from our side, using armored vehicles, of course, then we will immediately hear NATO statements that it is necessary to supply modern tanks, think not?
        1. -2
          15 October 2022 17: 29
          one thing is an ATGM that needs to be tested, and another thing is a tank that is exported and which will be lost with a guarantee
          1. +1
            15 October 2022 18: 48
            NATO has already supplied weapons worth tens of billions of dollars, sponsored Ukraine for the same amount, so that it would have something to live on and feed the soldiers, what is so great about supplying tanks? Lost or not, what's wrong with that? there's already a lot that's been lost
            1. 0
              15 October 2022 23: 55
              the fact that the conditional M60 tank costs a maximum of 600-700 thousand dollars from conservation, and modern Leopards have a price tag of 5 million euros per unit, excluding shells and logistics .. I do not exclude that they will eventually supply something modern, but delay this the process will be very long since the task is to delay the process and weaken Europe and Russia
    3. -4
      15 October 2022 16: 53
      Are you so sure that Europe with hardened will hold out for so long?
      1. +5
        15 October 2022 18: 50
        and what is wrong with them? while they are recapturing territories, the mob potential in people in Ukraine has not yet been even close to being used up, and they will give more weapons and money than Russia can produce, the possibilities of the economy of the golden billion are much higher than ours.
        1. -3
          16 October 2022 09: 52
          You see, you don’t follow European affairs at all ... you made me laugh at the European economy.
          1. -1
            19 October 2022 11: 50
            Quote: Alexey Sedykin
            You don't seem to follow European affairs at all ..

            Let's start with the fact that no one there transfers the workshops for the production of armeyka to the production of trout. They are either canned with the possibility of returning within a month, or they are slaughtered with new, more technologically advanced equipment.
            The Czech Tesla was sold to Siemens, but the workshops for the production of "critical" electronics were clogged with oil and no one was allowed to go there.
            1. -2
              19 October 2022 16: 40
              What, do you think a miracle will happen and by the new year energy prices will drop sharply in Europe?
              1. -1
                19 October 2022 17: 51
                Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                Do you think a miracle will happen and by the new year energy prices will drop sharply in Europe?

                When it comes to weapons or national security, no one thinks about the price of energy. And this equipment does not work on gas. Yes, and the essence of the problem is a little misunderstood to you. In Europe, many social sectors were geared towards gas, not military ones, not critical ones. And these are electrical. They have surplus electricity (there was an article on VO about this with a lack of understanding that, for example, the same Chechen Republic sells half of its electrics. Now they are transferring everything they can to electricity, and these are costs. People and the state pay equally with offices. Energy may not become cheaper because gas is still the cheapest source, but it will not rise much above today's price.
  5. +7
    15 October 2022 06: 43
    Until a turret MZ appears on the T-90, which can accommodate new elongated BOPS, by the way, which can then be made unitary, which will slightly reduce the total length of the artillery shot, there is simply no point in installing a new gun
    1. 0
      15 October 2022 08: 39
      hi Losses of tanks in the NMD zone are large, T-72B3 and T-80BVM, with such saturation of the enemy with anti-tank weapons, are quickly consumed. I have thoughts about whether the T-90M will be able to replace these modifications in the army in the 20s. If there seems to be stocks of T-80BV for modernization, then for the T-72B they write that everything is already there. Of course, I saw in the photographs near Kyiv the destroyed T-72s of the early series of our army, it is clear that 70% of the new equipment is not objectively confirmed. But the price of upgrading the T-72B to the level of the T-72B3M was significantly less than the cost of the new T-90M. Therefore, there are doubts about a large series for 1000 pieces of T-90M.
      1. +5
        15 October 2022 11: 03
        hi
        Quote: Alexander_Snegirev
        then according to the T-72B they write that everything is already

        I look at the neighboring storage base, it has only recently begun to move, and there are a lot of T-72B
        Quote: Alexander_Snegirev
        But the price of upgrading the T-72B to the level of the T-72B3M was significantly less than the cost of the new T-90M.

        Yes, but there is also the concept of combat value.
        1. +3
          15 October 2022 11: 46
          I wonder if they will be able to produce a couple of hundred T-90Ms a year or not. By the way, export T-90S began to be transferred to the army, Indian or Algerian is not clear.
          1. 0
            16 October 2022 19: 46
            In the frame you provided, just the T-72B3 tank ...
            1. 0
              16 October 2022 20: 59
              hi The trapezoidal block of dynamic protection on the tower is a sign of the T-90.
              1. 0
                21 October 2022 09: 06
                Just T-72B3. The T-90 has "headlights" for jamming laser guidance in place of extra remote sensing modules around the gun mask ...
                1. -1
                  21 October 2022 16: 42
                  Quote: uwzek
                  The T-90 has "headlights" for jamming laser guidance in place of extra remote sensing modules around the gun mask ...

                  In my photo, the export version of the T-90S without "headlights", or rather the Shtora optical-electronic suppression system, which has now entered the RF Armed Forces. And the tower is welded at the corner, and not round like the T-72B3. Moreover, dynamic protection of the relic is not installed on the forehead of the T-72B3 tower.
      2. -12
        15 October 2022 11: 06
        In the next 3 years, the T-62 will become the main tank of the army. The T-72/80s in storage are practically over, given the current and future losses among the troops in 23, there will be less than 1000. The production of the T-90M is too slow, I expect a simplified version of the T-90 closer to the T-72B3 / 90A to appear in the series. I see no other option to make up for catastrophic losses.
        1. +11
          15 October 2022 11: 57
          Quote from cold wind
          T-72/80 in storage are almost over,

          It's funny to read this, seeing hundreds of them standing behind the fence ...
          1. -7
            15 October 2022 12: 19
            Quote: svp67

            It's funny to read this, seeing hundreds of them standing behind the fence ...

            You can only see the hulls and towers, there can really be thousands of them. Problems begin when you need to make this body go, and fire from the tower. These thousands of tanks in storage turn into hundreds of tanks in the army. Do not forget the Russian Federation for 31 years, these tanks were sold and handed over to the allies, modernized for their troops, destroyed in wars, processed into scrap metal, stole components, just rotten. We in Ukraine suffered huge losses in tanks (only on the oryx photo ~ 1200 T-72/80/90) and continue to bear them, it has already become the norm at the front to see T-72B and T-62 in our army.
            1. +6
              15 October 2022 12: 50
              Quote from cold wind
              (only on oryx photo ~1200 T-72/80/90)

              Why not 2200? And how many of them are Polish or Czech, and how many T-64s? Ukrainians VERY often pass off their lost tanks as ours and a non-specialist will never see
              Quote from cold wind
              Problems begin when you need to make this body go, and fire from the tower.
              The tower should fire????? I always thought it was a sinful thing that a cannon and a machine gun do it, but it’s like that ... Seriously
              1. 0
                18 October 2022 10: 46
                Why are you conducting a dialogue with an employee of the CIPSO? Check the date of registration.
            2. -4
              15 October 2022 12: 53
              The T-80 seemed to have a gas turbine engine made on the basis of a helicopter.
              They removed it on the T-90, replaced it with a diesel one.
              They say modern modifications of the T-72 tanks performed poorly and suffered heavy losses.
              And we didn't have many T-90s.
              ALL of them are Soviet-designed equipment, even modifications of the T-90M.
              It turned out that the main battle tank we had was 30-35 years old in development,
              now it will be 55-60 years of development.
              In the case of using them in Ukraine, this is just a limited-range self-propelled gun, nothing more.
              Thousands of modern anti-tank weapons have been put there.
              1. +5
                15 October 2022 13: 42
                Quote: Osipov9391
                The T-80 seemed to have a gas turbine engine made on the basis of a helicopter.

                Well, in terms of what Klimov Design Bureau did. And it doesn’t bother anyone that tank diesels of the V-2 family have aviation roots, like the TD families
                Quote: Osipov9391
                They removed it on the T-90, replaced it with a diesel one.

                Did they put him there? Actually, the T-90 is a direct development of the T-72 with a diesel engine
                Quote: Osipov9391
                ALL of them are Soviet-designed equipment, even modifications of the T-90M.

                No, the T-90M is no longer Soviet
                Quote: Osipov9391
                Thousands of modern anti-tank weapons have been put there.

                And they should have destroyed our entire tank fleet a long time ago, as the Americans promised, and they keep sending and sending their anti-tank systems, and in the last batch of deliveries, only the United States promises 500 of them
      3. -2
        15 October 2022 13: 37
        wrong statement of the question .. it’s not about the price. it’s about time, now it’s by itself more profitable to modernize the t-72/80 at factories while UVZ is making t-90m, but in the future it will be necessary to raise the issue of modernizing the t-72b3m again, install the APU , put a panorama, put an anti-aircraft DUM, change the DZ and here it turns out that the difference is no longer so critical, not to mention that it is not much more expensive to produce a new T-90M, and the t-72b3m will be gradually put into reserve status
        1. 0
          15 October 2022 13: 47
          Quote: Barberry25
          in the future, it will be necessary to raise the issue of modernizing the t-72b3m again, install the APU, install a panorama, install an anti-aircraft missile system, change the remote sensing, and here it turns out that the difference is no longer so critical, not to mention the fact that it is not possible to produce a new T-90M much more expensive

          I have the opinion that such a deep modernization of the T-72B3M does not make sense, there is not enough space in the tower anyway. The non-brothers write that the ergonomics on the captured T-72B3 are worse than in the T-64BV. The T-90M has a new turret, more modern dynamic protection and better ergonomics inside.
          1. +1
            15 October 2022 17: 26
            well, the APU is hung on the hull from behind, and the rest will fit anyway, but you're right, it's easier a new tank with better basic protection
    2. 0
      15 October 2022 13: 31
      well, no one will do unitaries for the sake of one type of tank, but I thought about the same thing - make a conveyor in a turret niche and place enough ammo there, and place the rest in the AZ under the gun.
      1. +2
        15 October 2022 14: 00
        Quote: Barberry25
        make a conveyor in a turret niche and place a sufficient ammo there, and place the remains in the AZ under the gun. Moreover, for the HE, the length, in fact, remained the same
        ROC "Burlak" (his photo was published a little higher) and had 2 automatic loaders, and two ammunition racks (one is regularly located, the other in the tower)
        1. +1
          15 October 2022 17: 27
          like Burlak, although the placement of the DZ itself is rather strange
          1. 0
            15 October 2022 21: 20
            Well, this is for the driver to get out. with the current roofbreakers, of course, it’s not relevant anymore
  6. +2
    15 October 2022 07: 05
    In addition, they wrote that our industry cannot yet produce blanks with the required quality for trunks. Alloys and technologies new.....
    And questions about getting sick of a long BOPS and relevant and 2a46. The potential of this tool is not fully realized. So what would I do with a new long BOPS and AZ for it
  7. Eug
    +3
    15 October 2022 07: 07
    The question, as for me, is whether the 2A46 with any modernization can effectively and reliably hit tanks (and promising ones too) of potential "partners". For 20 years now, there has been talk that the shells of tank guns used in the USSR are inferior to "partner" shells in terms of a set of parameters, and the main reason for this is the impossibility of increasing the length of the shell due to the use of a carousel based mechanism (or automatic) loader. The conclusion is either to change the loading scheme (taking into account the prospects for further development), or to make technological changes in the production process (perhaps complex, relating not only to the issue under consideration), because now this can be done on a planned basis, at lower cost and better than later, when the bird will peck (I have no doubt that it will peck).
    1. +1
      15 October 2022 12: 31
      if there is a noticeably longer core, then why not "turn" 3-4 loading trays in the carousel "past the center" so that the long cores converge "overlap", and when raised to the loading line, they align
      1. +3
        15 October 2022 12: 55
        Quote: prodi
        if there is a noticeably longer core, then why not "turn" 3-4 loading trays in the carousel "past the center" so that the long cores converge "overlap", and when raised to the loading line, they align
        In the same article, it is written that the current AZ cannot load an elongated bops into a cannon, since the breech of the cannon prevents it from being raised. Therefore, a new AZ is needed, with a different loading principle (with a rounding of the gun breech). And where there is a completely new AZ, then making cuts in the sides, for a longer BOPS, is not a problem.
        1. 0
          15 October 2022 14: 20
          Yes, there, it seems, the main problem is precisely in the introduction of a long head of the projectile into the breech (and the T-90, it seems, is wider than the T-72)
          1. +1
            15 October 2022 15: 27
            Quote: prodi
            and the T-90, it seems, is wider than the T-72
            The same (it can be wider only due to the thickness of the bulwark). Compared to the T-72, it mainly differs in electronic filling, frontal armor (according to the information that 2 titanium sheets were added in the net), the shape and protection of the tower has changed several times, the tracks have changed (the first T-90s had simple RMSH), the working stroke of the road wheels (it also differed decently on modifications of the T-72), the engine is now installed on both the T-72B3 and the T-90M the same - 1130l / forces (on the biathlon T-72B3 with this the engine accelerated to 82 km / h).
  8. 0
    15 October 2022 07: 25
    Or maybe common sense will prevail? An endless attempt to measure the length of the barrel and the thickness of the armor .... And the ATGM has much better accuracy, besides, it is possible to increase the speed of the turret, and this is very important in close combat.
    Those. we need a tower with a protected missile launcher that allows missiles to be launched at close range, as well as with the ability to install a quick-firing 57-mm cannon, which can quite cope with the KAZ, followed by finishing off the tank with a guided missile. And the confrontation between the ATGM and the TV gun was shown by the battle of the Shturm-S installation with a tank and three infantry fighting vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    By the way, cheap unguided rockets can also be used for urban battles.
    1. +4
      15 October 2022 09: 41
      Missile tanks passed stage. The idea didn't take off.
      1. -1
        15 October 2022 10: 02
        Missile tanks passed stage. The idea didn't take off.

        Then there were other missiles.
    2. +2
      15 October 2022 12: 04
      Quote: Konnick
      And the ATGM has much better accuracy, ... And the confrontation between the ATGM and the tank gun was shown by the battle of the Shturm-S installation with a tank and three infantry fighting vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ..

      I once expressed the idea that it would be nice to develop an anti-tank system based on the installation and missiles of the Tor air defense system. Vertical launch from behind cover and missile control (via TV or radio channel) with the defeat of the BT in the upper hemisphere.
      1. +1
        15 October 2022 21: 24
        Quiet ... the Ukrainians already think that we are using the S300 on ground targets, and here they still have Torahs tomorrow they will knock out tanks ...
  9. -4
    15 October 2022 09: 21
    With the production of 2A46 trunks, there have been big problems for a long time. Not to mention 82 and 88.
    The attitude to this problem for many years was, to put it mildly, strange. Playing in the owners. Little has changed in recent times. Unless they began to shout louder: Come on, come on! Pounce! Tighten up! The war is on!
    We do it on our knees. Relatively speaking, a miner's shovel and file. On equipment half a century old. All these years it was believed that we had a lot of tanks, especially old ones in storage, they say we don’t have enough tankers for them. Therefore, why make new tanks, why make guns for them. We will still fight with missiles, and mostly nuclear ones. They say tanks are not needed.
    And now the decommissioned peonies have been taken out of storage and thrown into battle. Well, a little began to shamanize their stuffing, to update. Do not upgrade, but simply put new parts on them, or repair old ones. And now no one can make a new trunk for them ...
    This is how we prepared for war...
    And no one was asked for it. All strategists are in their places. Almost...
    Rogozin commanded the defense industry, was exiled to Roskosmos, then expelled from there.
    Borisov commanded the defense industry, was exiled to Roskosmos.
    Now Manturov is in command of the defense industry, we are waiting for a transfer to Roscosmos ...
    1. -2
      15 October 2022 13: 03
      Quote: Oleg Ogorod
      We do it on our knees. Relatively speaking, a miner's shovel and file. On equipment half a century old.

      1. 0
        15 October 2022 15: 34
        The basis of the foundations, the blanking of the tank barrel, is not made by the factory 9. It is generally not made in Yekaterinburg. And this is the main problem of tank and self-propelled guns. Cast or forge a stem blank.
        But how do you know...
        After all, it’s easier to watch a video on YouTube and you are already an advanced expert...
        1. -2
          15 October 2022 17: 08
          Quote: Oleg Ogorod
          The basis of the foundations, the blanking of the tank barrel, is not made by the factory 9. It is generally not made in Yekaterinburg.
          Who and where?

          Quote: Oleg Ogorod
          But how do you know...
          Will there be links to confirm your words or is it just empty chatter?
          1. +1
            15 October 2022 18: 12
            Barrel blanks were made by three factories. One was completely dead, in Yugra, he was killed. Remained Perm and Volgograd. And both plants have been extremely problematic all these years in the constant change of ownership and in bankruptcy.
            Well, okay, it's not a secret, a motovilikha and a former part of the barricades, which suddenly became red October in 2008. And then after a series of continuous bankruptcies. The history of such persons as Oleg Sienko and Dima Gerasimenko is connected with red. The first was the head of the UVZ corporation, the second was his protege at Red October (however, the personality is quite interesting, from a family of Soviet metallurgists, later associated with Ukraine, he himself loved basketball, it was his passion). When Oleg was thrown in the government, removed from his post, and UVZ took Rostec, Dima threw Oleg and his friends in the property of Red October. And Red October not only poured special steel, made cannon blanks on the former barricades, but also made tank armor ...
            Dima is now hiding in distant shores, the factories squeezed him out (as he squeezed them out in his time), but the games with the owners of these factories continue to this day.
            Noticeably the same story with the Perm motovilikha.
            Did I answer the question in detail?
            1. 0
              15 October 2022 19: 34
              God forgive me, all-knowing children of the Internet, the main argument, but will there be links? ...
              1. 0
                15 October 2022 21: 18
                Quote: Oleg Ogorod
                Did I answer the question in detail?
                It is quite

                Quote: Oleg Ogorod
                the main argument, and the links will be?...
                And what, it was necessary to be satisfied with an instructive statement:
                Quote: Oleg Ogorod
                But how do you know...

                This is what this forum is for:
                to exchange views and obtain additional information.
                There were enough wise men with teachings here without you.
              2. 0
                18 October 2022 11: 23
                Counterclaim. And considering that this you you say about "big problems" with the production, in fact, of pipes 2a46, then "proofs" from you are obligatory.
            2. +1
              15 October 2022 19: 41
              . And the same difficulty with the trunks of the Coalitions ..
  10. +6
    15 October 2022 09: 59
    A barrel with chrome-plated inner surfaces, high-quality and hard steel for its manufacture, auto-bonding and other technological moments make the gun far from a mass-produced “Kalashnikov assault rifle”, but rather an elite rifle for an equally elite user. The gun in many ways surpasses even the most advanced solution from the German Rheinmetall in the face of the L55 gun for the modernized Leopards-2.

    With all the "blah blah blah" - Yekaterinburg is ready to mass-produce this weapon. Yes, it will be necessary to invest in production and work out mass production, but this is necessary. Why? No one can exclude the possibility of Leopards, Abrams, Leclercs and Arietas of the latest modifications appearing today or tomorrow in the theater of operations. Nosebleeds must be prepared for this.
    The same goes for the hulls of the new T-90M. Do you think that UVZ, which for 20 years of the USSR "riveted" 30 "000" will not be able to increase production to 72 combat vehicles per year? Don't make fun of my slippers! UVZ was built to increase the mobilization potential of the T-1000 in wartime. The production cycle and facilities make it possible to increase the production of 72 tanks per year. By the word "plant" - Maybe even - he wants to. Only nobody needs this in MO.
    Does the author complain about the lack of workers? Only one district of Tagil "Vagonka", where UVZ stands, is inhabited by 150 people. 000 people live in Tagil itself. Create conditions, give a salary of 350-000 thousand in the hands of a worker, and not an effective manager - the Plant will give - tanks !!!
    In serial production, it is possible to progressively engage in the modernization of the hull forms of the "90s" (so that without tie-ins and blotches), refinement and running-in of automatic loaders. Even if it's risky!
    Next to Tagil, stands (almost in the truest sense of the word) the largest metallurgical complex in the world, Uralmash, which, following UVZ, can cook from armored steel new hulls and turrets for the T-90 with a new gun from scratch. Human resources - a city of a million people - Yekaterinburg (competencies 330 thousand). For information, the plant is larger than Nizhny Tagil.
    You can go on and on. However, the main thing is different, the trouble of modern people in power is not the ability to see "tomorrow".
    Good day to all.
    1. +1
      15 October 2022 12: 28
      Create conditions, give a salary of 150-200 thousand in the hands of a worker, and not an effective manager - the Plant will give - tanks !!!

      And you will find someone to put in these tanks? Maybe the workers themselves?
      Yes, and salaries famously scatter. If these tanks were needed, they would have been for a long time. And so neither tanks nor aviation showed themselves, only rocket troops, artillery, including self-propelled artillery, and air defense were in demand.
      1. +2
        15 October 2022 13: 36
        I answer in order.
        There will be equipment, there will be crews. With high-quality equipment, people are more likely not only to survive, but also to win.
        By wages. A cutter (and if you know what kind of specialty) receives an average of 80-100 thousand rubles, a carousel turner - 150-200. The salary of a worker at a defense enterprise should be even higher. The best people should work in such factories.
        Third. The armed forces must be balanced.
        Fourth. Who showed what, it is too early to say. Today you can only answer for yourself.
        1. +1
          15 October 2022 14: 08
          By wages. A cutter (and if you know what kind of specialty) receives an average of 80-100 thousand rubles, a carousel turner - 150-200.

          When I received 300 rubles, cutters at my plant 500, and carousels and borers maximum 300. Now cutters at that plant receive 50.
        2. +2
          15 October 2022 15: 46
          The problem is that these are fairy tales on paper. Of course, there are those who receive relatively well, but for some reason the machine operators are leaving the defense industry. So not everything is like in a fairy tale.
          But only one howitzer shot costs a stolnik. A tank shot is probably cheaper, but not by much. However, a tricky shot is probably much more expensive, even many times more expensive.
          War is costly.
          And tens of thousands of tanks will quickly shoot the country's budget.
          Therefore, it is not necessary to compare the Second World War with the present time, that is, the Great Patriotic War, when they worked at the plant for food cards, and when everything is for the front, everything is for victory. Mostly the elderly, women and children worked.
          God forgive me, how many dreamers we have ....
          1. +1
            16 October 2022 10: 14
            A tank shot is much more expensive than a howitzer.
        3. -5
          15 October 2022 17: 07
          Even in the States, which have much more money than we do, workers in military enterprises receive about the same as in ours. Where will you get more money?
          1. -1
            19 October 2022 12: 07
            Quote: Alexey Sedykin
            Where will you get more money?

            And where can you get machine tools and equipment for precise control for the production of new tools. The article clearly describes these problems.
            1. -2
              19 October 2022 16: 44
              Quote: haron
              where you can get machine tools and precision control equipment for the production of new tools. The article clearly describes these issues.

              I have a question about salaries ... what does the machines and equipment have to do with it? If you want to discuss them, then this is not for me ...
              1. 0
                19 October 2022 17: 14
                Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                I'm talking about salaries..

                Very much to do with it. For even the availability of money will not solve the issue of producing a high-tech product. The main thing is on what and who will do it.
                1. -2
                  19 October 2022 17: 41
                  I'm talking about the fact that our salaries at military enterprises and in the states are almost equal ... about equipment, this is not for me ... if you want to discuss this topic, look for those who understand.
                  1. -1
                    19 October 2022 18: 08
                    Quote: Alexey Sedykin
                    I'm talking about the fact that our salaries at military enterprises and in the states are practically

                    And I'm talking about the fact that the production of such a product is a complex problem of four components, or even five. Development, mass production technology, equipment of the required quality, personnel who can work on it with high quality and what you are talking about is money. But they are considered after working through everything that lies ahead.
  11. +1
    15 October 2022 10: 35
    Quote: Maxim G
    My Vepr-12 smoothbore carbine also has elite rifles, and we are elite users)).

    No need to stick around - the gun has a "partially chrome-plated barrel". In some places, it means - we chrome it there, here we polish it with sandpaper or sharpen it with a rasp. Feng shui.
    So fully chromed crowbars drilled from elite ones - cross out laughing .
    Only partially chrome-plated (like my Benelli MP1) can immodestly stand on a par with this gun, and their owners will be ranked among the elite. Don't go to a fortune teller.
  12. -7
    15 October 2022 10: 44
    The passion for "analogues" has once again played a cruel joke on us. The old types of tanks are hopelessly outdated, and the new type has not been tested in battles and is generally ambiguous in concept.

    My humble IMHO: at the turn of the millennium, when the obsolescence of the T-72 platform became obvious, it was necessary not to invent prodigies, but to stupidly copy Abrams. Not literally copy, but make a tank of the same layout and size. The only question is the choice of engine - diesel or gas turbine. Over everything else, one could no longer break one's head - there is a sample. Seven-wheel chassis, 1500 l / s engine, spacious turret, ammunition in the turret niche, crew of 4 people.

    Such a tank could be created in five years and put into production around 2005-2007. Making 100 pieces a year, by now it would be possible to have about 1500 new powerful tanks, moreover, with a good modernization potential - the platform allows you to install both new guns and new equipment, including KAZ.
    1. +1
      15 October 2022 11: 40
      Of course, the concept of Abrams and Leopard 2 is 15+ years younger than the T-64/72/80, but they are also approaching the end of their life cycle, it is too late to copy. If the USSR had not collapsed, a new tank to replace the T-64/72/80 appeared in the series in the 90s, there were several prototypes, but alas ..
      1. 0
        15 October 2022 11: 58
        Quote from cold wind
        but they are also approaching the end of their life cycle

        Is not a fact. Recently there was news - an option for modernizing Abrams was proposed, so far just a concept. Unmanned tower, AZ, crew in the hull. The "irony of fate" may turn out so that the Americans will receive their "Armata" faster than we do. on the old platform.
        1. +4
          15 October 2022 13: 02
          There, from Abrams, the hull and chassis remained, in fact this is a new car. AbramsX is just a concept from the manufacturer, something else may go into the series.
          The most up-to-date and ready-to-series "new" tank is the EMBT.
          Hull from Leopard 2, heavily redesigned turret from Leclerc.
          Immediately the ability to put a 120 mm or 140 mm gun, tested on Leclerc, respectively, under 130 mm needs to be completed. It costs AZ, but added 4 crew members, an operator of on-board systems (UAVs, turrets with a 30mm cannon, and other reconnaissance equipment). KAZ naturally exists.
          Extremely high firepower.
          Main caliber - 120/140 mm gun
          Optional - 30mm autocannon on separate turret
          Coaxial with the main gun 12,7 mm machine gun
          Coaxial 7,62 mm machine gun with a panoramic sight.
          Three pairs of eyes can conduct reconnaissance and independently fire.
          Almost everything is in mass production, only modernization is needed.
          1. +1
            15 October 2022 14: 03
            Quote from cold wind
            There, from Abrams, there was a hull and chassis

            Well, that is a platform, albeit partially. And the tower is not the fact that it will be completely new.

            Quote from cold wind
            AbramsX is just a concept from the manufacturer, something else may go into the series.

            I think that it is the modernization of existing tanks that is being proposed, and not the manufacture of brand new ones. After all, Abramsov has been pretty well done, about 10 thousand, most of them are in storage somewhere.
            1. +3
              15 October 2022 14: 16
              Quote: DenVB

              I think that it is the modernization of existing tanks that is being proposed, and not the manufacture of brand new ones. After all, Abramsov has been pretty well done, about 10 thousand, most of them are in storage somewhere.

              In the army (the ILC was decommissioned) there are now about 1400 M1A2S / M1A2 SEPv2, 300-400 M1A2 v2 in training / reserve, 4000+ different M1A1 / M1A2 are in storage. In total, under 6000 M1A1 / M1A2.

              They have a new "light" tank, it can be improved. Just he would have looked good in a crewless version.
              It all depends on the strategy of using the ground forces, they have a new military doctrine, they can reconsider the development of the army. The ILC completely abandoned heavy equipment, they rely on UAVs and missile weapons, but they are a very specific type of troops. So there may be surprises with the army.
              1. +1
                15 October 2022 14: 22
                Quote from cold wind
                So there may be surprises with the army.

                For the army to abandon heavy equipment - "no, son, this is fantastic."
            2. -1
              15 October 2022 18: 18
              The tower is new. There, the body has been sawn so much that it is easier to make a new one.
    2. -2
      15 October 2022 17: 10
      Quote: DenVB
      The old types of tanks are hopelessly outdated, and the new type has not been tested in battles and is generally ambiguous in concept

      Tell that to the Americans about their abrashka. laughing
    3. 0
      18 October 2022 11: 40
      Do you propose to do IS-2022? Do you have a design drawing ready? What about technology and technical map?
  13. +3
    15 October 2022 11: 44
    There is no need to look for blame among the leaders of industry, or complain about weak engineers and poor education. Even pests are not so guilty, although there are such, and the blame cannot be removed from them.
    The problem is in the tax system, in property taxes. Of course, it can be objected that depreciation deductions existed in the USSR, but then they were directed to the same industry, because the state itself acted as the owner. Now, the tax system created in the 90s and then improved is literally destroying the industry. Production capacities cannot be accumulated, kept in reserve. Everything back is taxed, sucks from live production. And the manufacturer is forced to get rid of the property. Reserve and spare equipment have to be sold, cut into scrap metal, and workshops have to be leveled with a bulldozer.
    Hence the concentration of industry on eating money for R&D and making exhibition samples. If there are no permanent orders, and there are none when there is no war, then it is impossible to keep reserve capacities, they will ruin anyone.
    The problem is simple to primitiveness.
    All engineers probably know that the highest quality steel was smelted in open-hearth furnaces. Where are they now? They were declared non-environmentally friendly, stopped, and in order not to pay taxes on them, they were dismantled.
    1. +2
      15 October 2022 14: 32
      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
      The problem is in the tax system, in property taxes.

      Not only in property taxes. Our entire fiscal system, including VAT, income tax, pension contributions, customs duties, and so on, is built in such a way that it is profitable to trade and speculate, but not to produce, especially technically complex products.
    2. +1
      15 October 2022 17: 47
      As for high-quality steel in open-hearth furnaces, this is of course tin.
      As I remember now, in my time Klim Lugansky with a mustachioed Buda convinced Joseph that the main thing in the army is cavalry, it will bring victory in any modern war. Tanks suck. She will find a horse everywhere, but a tank ...
      The same thing happened in my old age. They also convinced the supreme that everything would be fine with the modernized Soviet weapons. And not only modernized. They say we have a sea spilled with formidable equipment in storage. And the warehouses are filled with shells.
      What is storage, there were many pictures from the outskirts, where the fields of tanks are. Were standing. They can't do anything but stand for a long time.
      Our situation is about the same, we are one people for many centuries.
      Military metallurgy has long been systematically destroyed and destroyed. Therefore, we went "scraping around the bottom of the barrel."
      The tank should now have several drones hanging permanently on the tank, which will track the javelin operators by their huge reflective optics. Snipers with rifles are tracked by the complexes. And here the optics are much larger.
      And track the launch of missiles with their trajectory. To inform the tank's defense system.
      Do we have it? But like military metallurgy, the Soviet electronics industry, although rather backward, was also practically destroyed by the Americans in the 90s. And later it was practically not revived.
      But here they call for pouring armor for new tanks in megatons.
      We can’t produce (cast and forge) a modern pancake tank barrel, since it was simply abandoned and did not develop for half a century.
      1. 0
        16 October 2022 10: 23
        You can’t forge a tank barrel, but Russia can’t!
      2. 0
        16 October 2022 16: 32
        Quote: Oleg Ogorod
        As for high-quality steel in open-hearth furnaces, this is of course tin.
        As I remember now, in my time Klim Lugansky with a mustachioed Buda convinced Joseph that the main thing in the army is cavalry, it will bring victory in any modern war. Tanks suck. She will find a horse everywhere, but a tank ...
        The same thing happened in my old age. They also convinced the supreme that everything would be fine with the modernized Soviet weapons. And not only modernized. They say we have a sea spilled with formidable equipment in storage. And the warehouses are filled with shells.
        What is storage, there were many pictures from the outskirts, where the fields of tanks are. Were standing. They can't do anything but stand for a long time.
        Our situation is about the same, we are one people for many centuries.
        Military metallurgy has long been systematically destroyed and destroyed. Therefore, we went "scraping around the bottom of the barrel."
        The tank should now have several drones hanging permanently on the tank, which will track the javelin operators by their huge reflective optics. Snipers with rifles are tracked by the complexes. And here the optics are much larger.
        And track the launch of missiles with their trajectory. To inform the tank's defense system.
        Do we have it? But like military metallurgy, the Soviet electronics industry, although rather backward, was also practically destroyed by the Americans in the 90s. And later it was practically not revived.
        But here they call for pouring armor for new tanks in megatons.
        We can’t produce (cast and forge) a modern pancake tank barrel, since it was simply abandoned and did not develop for half a century.

        In fact, mass mechanization and motorization of the Red Army began precisely under People's Commissar Voroshilov. And the cavalry did not show itself badly in the Second World War.
        So this alleged conversation is like gossip.
    3. 0
      21 October 2022 23: 00
      As an industry expert, I can say that:
      Armor steel and gun steel are made using different technologies.
      The welded tower is stronger than the cast one.
      The highest quality steel is made by electro-slag, vacuum-arc remelting with further out-of-furnace processing. Martins are a long time ago.
      Capacities and their reserves are laid down at the stage of the technical project. So that's how much they laid down and if it's all in working condition, that's how much it will be.
      Separately, the state exempted the power from the property tax, and even the truth pays a penny extra for what they are.
      "Hence the concentration of industry on eating money for R&D and making exhibition samples." - Excuse me, what is the opinion based on?
      1. 0
        21 October 2022 23: 05
        Dear industry expert, has anyone mentioned or argued about welded and cast towers? What is this for? This alone casts doubt on the adequacy of the approach.
        Has anyone referred open-hearth furnaces to power capacities and taken measures to preserve them? Is there anything compared to the quality of steel smelting, except for fictions about yesterday?
        1. 0
          22 October 2022 19: 28
          Dear Sergey Alexandrovich!
          On the issue of steel quality and the fact that since the times of the USSR, high-quality armored steel was made by ESR, see the article of the leading research institute in the country
          https://www.niistali.ru/about-company/stati-nashikh-avtorov/bronevye-materialy/
          In terms of power and open-hearth furnaces. Mob power referencing criteria see
          Regulations on the procedure for economic stimulation of the mobilization preparation of the economy "(approved by the Ministry of Economic Development of the Russian Federation N GG-181, the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation N 13-6-5 / 9564, the Ministry of Taxes of the Russian Federation N BG-18-01 / 3 02.12.2002). Property tax on mob The reserve is not paid by organizations, but the size of the mobile reserve is already a question of the state - how much it is willing to pay for the capacity to stand idle until X hour.
          1. 0
            22 October 2022 20: 10
            It's actually in the article about tank guns, and not towers and armor plates. For some reason, you get pulled away every time.
            And where and when were open-hearth furnaces allowed to be attributed to the mobile reserve? Be so kind as to give examples.
            And about the quality of the smelted steel. I was taught that open hearth furnaces can produce unsurpassed quality due to the ability to intervene in the smelting process, while electric arc furnaces have limited ability to interfere. If something has changed since then, give examples.
            According to information from the open press, open-hearth furnaces have been stopped throughout the country not because they are bad, but under pressure from international organizations, under the pretext of their low environmental friendliness.
  14. +5
    15 October 2022 14: 18
    Yesterday I watched on YouTube an analysis of a tank battle between a Russian T-80 and a Ukrainian T-64.
    Surprisingly, the distance of fire contact turned out to be pistol, so what kind of gun was there? In any case, the frontal armor of the T-64 could not withstand the hit.
    Well, the fact that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, as usual in our traditions, is relying on mass cheap is no longer a secret to anyone. all the promises of a seto-centric war when we technologically outnumber the enemy, and immediately rush with NATO atomic bombs, remained promises.
    Therefore, again, quantitative superiority due to the stress of the economy and most likely a deterioration in the standard of living of the people. It is even surprising how the same thing happens over and over again in the pre-war period, the army enjoys great privileges, it is fed, watered benefits to the military, large salaries.
    1. +1
      15 October 2022 14: 28
      Quote: certero
      And like a war, get up again, a huge country

      And when the war is over, it will again be "I didn't send you there" and "no one owes you anything." The wheel of Russian samsara.
  15. 0
    15 October 2022 16: 19
    Well, a small remark to dreamers tank builders. From Yekaterinburg.
    A tank is a huge amount of various kits from all over the country and beyond. And it's not easy for her right now.
    Not all manufacturers are state-owned. Oh, not all...
    And now, in order to put a soldier in a tank, you need to tear him away from the machine that makes the tank, engine, cannon, kit for it, hydraulics, electronics, a fur headset ...
  16. +1
    15 October 2022 16: 59
    I wonder if it is possible to imagine the cost of construction and maintenance of the Yeltsin Center in "Armaty"?
    And changing the curb stone on the scale of Russian cities is how many thousands of Armats?
    1. +2
      15 October 2022 17: 20
      Of course, you will be surprised when you find out that the Yeltsin Center is a large shopping center, a shop in which the Yeltsin Museum is located in the corner. Well, at the entrance to the store (inside) there is Yeltsin's old member truck. And outside the statue of Yeltsin, guarded from the townspeople by a security guard.
      Under the guise of a Yeltsin museum, a shopping center was built, although not the most popular as a store. There are more offices. But a hall with an American dimension. And enough in the center on a very expensive place.
  17. -1
    15 October 2022 18: 18
    I think that in the current realities, the decision to rely on well-tested technology and established production looks quite justified. New items that require serious material and time costs can be left for later.
  18. 0
    15 October 2022 20: 13
    Tank gun 2A82 is great! She asks for installation in a tank t 90 m. The cost of work does not matter. (especially after the government gave the enemy $320 billion, and 100 state-owned companies paid dividends of 1.1 trillion rubles). The question is the number of 2A82 products that can be produced in 1 month and the amount of ammunition for them. Tank T 14, if all comments and design defects are eliminated, also in the series. The cost doesn't matter. If you "put in the basement" of the liberals, it can easily be reduced many times over.
    1. -1
      16 October 2022 15: 26
      A progressive scale of personal income tax as throughout the world and a state monopoly on alcohol.
      Not to mention total corruption and theft. And enough money for everything. Even on a flight to Mars.
  19. +1
    15 October 2022 20: 14
    Quote: DenVB
    Quote: certero
    And like a war, get up again, a huge country

    And when the war is over, it will again be "I didn't send you there" and "no one owes you anything." The wheel of Russian samsara.

    Afghanistan was not a nationwide war, Well, the attitude towards veterans coincided with the collapse of the Union, which had a strong effect.
    But no one said this to Chechen veterans
  20. +2
    15 October 2022 21: 50
    I hate all this talk about money. KAZ is expensive, changing AZ is expensive, a new barrel is expensive ... Well, it would be about North Korea. But here, the entire periodic table, a huge resource base...trillions of dollars stupidly pissed away over 20 years...Putin himself is not dumb about this? He understands that after him, the new authorities will most likely launch something like a new industrialization, because without it there is no way ... which means that his entire reign will go down in the history books as a waste of white elephants and rampant corruption.
    1. +1
      16 October 2022 15: 22
      Quote: Timur_kz
      I hate all this talk about money. KAZ is expensive, changing AZ is expensive, a new barrel is expensive ... Well, it would be about North Korea. But here, the entire periodic table, a huge resource base...trillions of dollars stupidly pissed away over 20 years...Putin himself is not dumb about this? He understands that after him, the new authorities will most likely launch something like a new industrialization, because without it there is no way ... which means that his entire reign will go down in the history books as a waste of white elephants and rampant corruption.

      In Russia, money is like a fool's shag. As the people say.
      One of the richest countries in the world.
      Only the money is in the wrong pockets. Private, not public
      Until now, they do not want to introduce a progressive personal income tax scale.
      Or, for example, the state monopoly on alcohol.
      And in the USSR, income from alcohol in the state budget was up to 20%. Therefore, aircraft carriers could build thousands of tanks and much more. Until Gorby introduced his idiotic anti-alcohol campaign.
      And so in the USSR there were problems with income, and here such a strong blow to the budget. And then everything went to private owners - vodka kings, who are getting fat and through lobbyists are preventing the nationalization of the industry.
      By the way, there is another side
      effect, people will be poisoned less by a surrogate.
      So I am also enraged by the talk that there is "no money" in Russia.
  21. +4
    15 October 2022 22: 06
    An unusually competent article for a "late" VO. And of course interesting! smile
  22. +3
    15 October 2022 22: 50
    Good comments on a good article, but I want to say, no matter how hard our scientists, engineers, specialists try, everything ultimately comes down to finances. Do you remember why Nikolai lost to the Japanese, not the army, but Nikolai, why the revolution happened and why we are fighting with Soviet weapons, but there is no new, modern one. So about Nikolai, it’s because of his and his family’s greed and stupidity, the state made ends meet, and his court lived in luxury and now little has changed, his Majesty’s court has yachts, palaces, billions in foreign accounts .... and we blame the Soviet government, we work and fight on Soviet technologies, but there is no money for new modern ones, as always.
  23. +2
    16 October 2022 08: 55
    There is no money for Armata, and no money for the T-90M either. But there is enough money to leave ukram to hell abandoned equipment during the NWO-O. At this rate, the BT-7 will come to the reopening. Any technique is effective on the battlefield only in the hands of a specialist. And an amateur from military affairs can pump everything in a second. And who then will need all these super-new tanks? ..
  24. -4
    16 October 2022 11: 08
    If not for the bankruptcy of several tank factories, now, in the conditions of war, Russia could simultaneously produce both the T-90M with 2A46 and a certain T-90M2 with 2A82. And not only to produce, but also to repair equipment.
    1. 0
      16 October 2022 21: 35
      Quote: RussianPatriot
      If not for the bankruptcy of several tank factories,

      After UVZ got out of ceasing to exist as a tank plant at the beginning of the XNUMXs (without any special participation of the state, by the way) and bought out the shares of the Omsk plant with the restoration of tank production on it, all Russian tank plants seem to work and even without any special stops. They also manufacture and repair equipment.
      But this is all done within the framework of the state defense order. Another thing is that the order given before the war was not very large (or extremely small). And the factories had no need to ensure the expansion of production.
      Now the war has come, tanks are needed, but there is no iron ...
      It's too early to panic. Nothing special has come up yet. It’s rotten that the responsibility for the long-term destruction of the technological chains of military production, impeccably carried out by our state, is, as always, the responsibility of Russian soldiers ...
      Yes, and nowhere except for UVZ, no T-90MX can be executed. It will be very expensive...
  25. 0
    16 October 2022 12: 58
    And how much is expensive? War is an expensive business.

    Tank rises in price by 10%, by 20? What is the problem?
  26. +1
    16 October 2022 20: 35
    Quote: Oleg Ogorod
    And now, in order to put a fighter in a tank, you need to tear him away from the machine that makes the tank, the engine,

    In addition to the categories of potential fighters you mentioned, there are millions of actors, directors, managers, and just clerks. All are male. Almost any of them can be replaced by a woman, a pensioner, a teenager, a disabled person...
  27. 0
    17 October 2022 01: 34
    Raise the tower using the "ring" - a kind of "barbet", have you tried? ..
  28. 0
    17 October 2022 12: 36
    "Danced"))) guns are conditionally determined by the ability of its ammunition to penetrate the armor of enemy tanks head-on at a distance equal to or greater than enemy tanks can do (well, if the Ministry of Defense still believes that tanks are designed to fight tanks, and not to race on public amusement). If not a single projectile that exists, or that can be created using the most advanced achievements of science and industry in a reasonable time, can do this, then it’s time for such a gun to landfill. Can modern BOPS penetrate NATO MBTs in the forehead? No? so what is the article talking about, what is the potential for modernization? How many BOPS from L-55 penetrate? Suddenly, they can even flash the tower in the forehead for many T-shek variants? So what's next?
  29. 0
    17 October 2022 13: 36
    The question is different: how now to fit the automatic loader itself into the tank? Due to the long shells and the correspondingly increased diameter of the conveyor, although it is called both a “drum”, and sometimes a “carousel”, in which these same shells are laid, the contours of the automatic loader sweep have increased. This whole structure literally rests on the sides of the tank hull and does not fit into it.


    For long (900 mm) sub-caliber finned shells, it would be more logical to make a horizontal storage cassette and place it in an additional niche that should be placed in the rear of the turret.
    There is also the simplest automatic loader that will push the sub-caliber projectile from the cassette directly into the gun in a straight line.
    This is the minimum and probably the most budget modification that will allow the use of all types of shells.
    The old "short shells" are fired from a standard autoloader, and in tank duels, a second autoloader works, which fires sub-caliber shells.
  30. 0
    19 October 2022 00: 43
    The question is that Russia needs a tank capable of fighting against the Abrams tank. Collision with these tanks is a matter of time. They may soon appear in the hands of Ukrainians or mercenaries. Is the 2A46 cannon capable of fighting the latest or penultimate Abrams modifications? As far as I know, no, the relics of a short projectile are few and you can’t take Abrams armor in the forehead with them. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if this gun cannot penetrate either the turret or the enemy's hull head-on from any distance, then we will lose the tank duel.
    Can the 2A82 gun penetrate the Abrams armor in the forehead? Yes maybe! Correct me if I'm wrong!
    Long Projectile Vacuum Capable!
    Do we have a 2A82 cannon on the Ukrainian front??? NO!
    What to do?
    Armata is a tank for arming elite brigades! It is possible to strengthen the offensive in decisive areas where success is needed, but in the mass it is too expensive and complicated.
    There is only one way out, it is necessary to arm the T90 M with them and refute the arguments of the author of the article. How? Change the tower by increasing it from behind, which is already being done, as far as I know. Problems with autoloader?? If they are, load manually by introducing a strong guy into the crew! Americans are not shy about this, why are we worse?
    As a result, there will be a tank capable of hitting a promising enemy with good mobility, security and not too expensive! Analogue of T34-85 in 1944.
  31. -2
    19 October 2022 18: 30
    Quote: haron
    And this equipment does not work on gas. Yes, and the essence of the problem is a little misunderstood to you. In Europe, many social sectors were geared towards gas, not military ones, not critical ones. And these are electrical. They have too much electricity.

    Yeah, but they take the electrician out of thin air... lol
  32. 0
    21 October 2022 22: 48
    Topic covered beautifully. Without exaggeration professional.