Military Review

Near-technical arguments on military topics

140
Near-technical arguments on military topics



foreword


This work can be regarded as freethinking or fantasy and not taken close to heart. The opinions expressed can be biased, erroneous, far-fetched and even harmful. Ideas are unrealizable in practice. There are a number of important assumptions in the text.

Assumptions


- Women do not give birth to new ones. In urban conditions, a child is quite an expensive pleasure. It is problematic to meet barefoot children living in dugouts in the villages. If a child is gifted and with a good education, then the state must make efforts so that he does not fall down. In general, such an attitude towards our women is unpleasant;

There are no bad soldiers, there are bad commanders. Proven by Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane and some football coaches. They say that Makhno had the talent of a commander. But all this is not accurate;

- in his fantastic opus under "generals" I will have in mind not specific titles and their holders, but a collective image that has developed in the public mind. Even a humanitarian with the habits of a pacifist, who has never served in the army, can fit under this definition. weapons only kept historical replicas or in computer games;

- the same conditional "generals" not ready for the last war. Many in their dreams see Napoleonic battles with cavalry, mercilessly smoking cannons and marching soldiers in haute couture uniforms with obligatory golden epaulettes, or sea battles on sailing frigates the size of a five-masted brig and obligatory boarding;

- again those very conditional "generals". They love reconnaissance in combat. We prefer to walk. This is their blood and flesh, the whole whole essence and nature. Other tactics are unacceptable and do not deserve any attention;

- An ordinary soldier is, first of all, a man of flesh and blood. It has natural biological needs that are vital. Due to the characteristics of the organism, it can exist in certain environmental conditions. He also has relatives, friends, social connections and affections. This is not a terminator from a favorite movie and not a superhero;

- there will be many letters, compound and complex sentences;

- perhaps "captainship";

- the expressed advice and rationalization proposals can be safely treated as harmful with a certain degree of irony;

- it may seem that much is divorced from reality, fantasy and not realizable.

So, the sofa is spread out, the cat is fed, the Internet is on.

1. Armored trucks


In the event of armed conflicts, fighting subunits constantly need to deliver ammunition, weapons, food, new equipment, and new people. You also need to pick up faulty weapons and equipment for repair, people or what is left of them. All this is not happening in a friendly and favorable environment. No gas stations with polite staff in uniform and a snack shop, no illuminated highways, no hotels where you can sleep, wash, eat, change clothes. Instead of roads - directions, so often shot through and mined. Your CO.

I drew attention to one feature. On civilian vehicles, to protect against getting into various emergencies and troubles, they usually hang or install various religious objects. Parprise icons, crosses on the rearview mirror, talismans and amulets. The military hang bulletproof vests on the windows. And they run as fast as possible. Truly, trust in God, but do not make a mistake yourself.

The practice with curtained side windows is probably as old as bulletproof vests. About forty years to be exact. The question remains, what were the manufacturers of cargo military equipment thinking about all this time? About progress in the production of bulletproof vests or progress in the reproduction of new drivers? Obviously nothing about the protection of the driver is not thought out. Or only occasionally.

In addition to the cabin with a driver and a passenger, there is a body with personnel. Again your KO. If in the warm offices of the design bureau (hereinafter referred to as design bureau) they inadvertently believe that the awning tarpaulin is able to withstand any bad weather, fragments and small-caliber bullets, I will disappoint. Might not survive meeting with a branch. And it is easily removed with a branch along with the frame. I answer legitimate questions about a sudden branch and where the driver was looking.

The driver was watering at 60 km/h in the likeness of a dirt road in the hope of slipping through and did not steer a little. This moment, most likely, was also not remembered by the manufacturers of army trucks. A member of the KamAZ-Master racing team will not always be behind the wheel. Often there are guys with the rights of the category "Itand initial driving experience.

What else? Sometimes the column moves for a day or two, so you have to sleep right in the cabin along the seats, cook grub there and store a bunch of belongings under and behind the seat. Radio station? It's good if they release it. Regular is not provided, from the word at all. A separate song about a tin tank and exhaust volume. Such an impression aesthetes of a loud, juicy bass exhaust work at KamAZ and they specially designed such a muffler. "Urals" in this regard are similar.

I also understand why people like to ride armored personnel carriers, and not in the back of a truck. The armored personnel carrier goes softer over bumps. Especially BTR-80. Smooth and quiet compared to conventional sprung-type trucks. At the same time, the BTR-80 power plant is similar to the KAMAZ one. So, in the armored personnel carrier they managed to place the tanks under the armor, in the same place the engine, the cooling radiator and the clearance of almost half a meter were made.

It turns out that it is possible to release a kind of truck with an armored cab, personnel protection, protected engine and tank, low profile and noise, independent suspension, high ground clearance and a winch. Only this is called an armored personnel carrier and, unfortunately, it is not suitable for modern realities in terms of the level of protection.

There is one interesting observation between an armored personnel carrier with a flat bottom and independent suspension and a truck with a rigid dependent suspension. It is easier to pull out an armored personnel carrier when it has sat on its belly than a truck that has sat down on bridges. When loading an armored personnel carrier onto a train, it is not so important whether there are sides between the platform cars and what they are made of. An interesting 8x8 scheme came from our designers. They just did not begin to develop further, despite the great potential for development. However, as always it was customary with us. Even in football.

What would you like to see in the military? A fully armored hood-type truck with a mass of 20 tons, a carrying capacity of 10 tons and the ability to withstand 12,7 mm caliber bullets and a mine explosion. No, I'm not crazy, not in a terminal state and not delirious with such Wishlist. I can perfectly imagine from the inside how the process of developing technology takes place. That's why I'm raising the bar.

The developer will not howl so croaking at the beginning he will beg to change the mass of the machine to 25 tons, and lower the load capacity to 5-7 tons. There will be plenty of reasons. Starting from the laws of physics and mathematics, ending with the paradoxes of philosophy and cultural customs. Then this process will go on knurled. Therefore, as a result, a chimera will appear weighing more than 30 tons, with a carrying capacity of about 3-4 tons, it will withstand hits by 12,7 mm caliber bullets, but under certain conditions and not everywhere, with mines - as lucky. Usually, when a customer wants High-Tech, he gets something in the “hi-so” style and wishes not to show off.

Still, I do not consider the declared figures to be fiction, and this is quite possible with the current level of scientific and technological progress (hereinafter referred to as STP). I'll explain now.

In the helicopter industry, armor is used that can withstand a 12,7 mm caliber shot. It is a layer of steel armor and an aluminum alloy layer behind it to absorb shell fragments and armor. Apparently aviation steel for armor and aviation aluminum are very cheap, so they are used there. And for ground vehicles, everything is very expensive and not technologically advanced. At the same time, the world of passive protection does not revolve only around armored steels and aircraft-grade aluminum.

Different versions of ceramics, materials based on carbides and nitrides are used, there are strong polymeric materials. Humanity has come up with a lot of composite materials. Not satisfied with aluminum - there is titanium. The ninth most abundant element in the earth's crust. Carbon is less common than titanium. If a manufacturer of military equipment is not able to protect the personnel of the Ministry of Defense from modern factors of destruction, why does the Ministry of Defense need such a manufacturer?

I wrote earlier that a convoy of trucks can move for several days. There are cases - the column arrived, brought everything you need, even unloaded in a day. Then he waits for his fate. It can immediately set off or wait a few days for the commanders to decide what to do. It doesn't matter what the drivers are doing all this time, as long as they don't get in the way. Is it important where they sleep and rest after the road? It's good if there are places in the barracks or a tent camp. And when not? We arrived in an open field, unloaded, and then the legend or the weather changed dramatically. Where is the fighter to spend the night? There are not always free places for a dear guest.

On the other hand, the sleeping bag does not take up much space in the cabin. A simple single without all the frills that have long become the norm in civilian trucks. There's not much armor steel needed to lengthen the cabin. Just think with your head and understand that a machine can be driven by a living person who can get tired, and sleep is vital for him. A tired, sleepy person driving a multi-ton colossus with ammunition or personnel is more dangerous than a tipsy reckless driver. Slowly blink a couple of times - and remember your name. Just do not offer a semblance of a hammock as in the GAZ-66.

Probably, many readers of these lines had to both observe and participate in rescuing stuck equipment. Any all-terrain vehicle gets stuck. Even Tanks. Your CO. But now it's not about them. Again, I don’t understand why the manufacturers of equipment, which is destined to knead the roads of varying degrees of mud, did not bother to equip it with a winch. This is a technologically simple product and does not require high-tech solutions, rare earth metals and precision CNC machines.

It is usually located in front of the radiator grille and serves as additional protection for the engine from possible arrivals. Designed to save a lot of time and effort when rescuing a stuck car. Maybe someone thinks otherwise, only on a military truck the winch should be a standard device.

Let me summarize my writing. Freight transport in the army is like a circulatory system. A vessel was pressed somewhere, and part of the body was left without blood supply. It's good to have a bypass route. Otherwise, tissue necrosis will occur. Equipment to ensure the continuous supply of troops in combat conditions must be ready not only for current realities, but also for the challenges of the future. One can say about the current fleet of trucks - it is absolutely not ready, let alone for the current state of affairs, even for the conditions of 30 years ago.
Now attention. The funny and frivolous part of the story begins, relax and turn off the inner bore. The development of such trucks, I believe, should be entrusted to the Kamov development team. The same manufacturer of helicopters.

Calm down, I'll explain why. The developers of this company have real decades of experience in the production of military equipment for such armor. As it is now fashionable to say, they have a corresponding case of developments and ready-made prototypes. Automakers don't have this. What they whip up in a hurry will be terrible. Because they will do as they see fit, and they do not care about the experience of others.

The developers of Kamov understand what the convenience and ergonomics of controls are, they are not afraid of electronics and innovations. In addition to the communication system, they put diagnostic systems, navigation systems and much more on their equipment. At the Ural, they still cannot remove the gear lever from between the passenger's legs, they also did not bother to make a simple gear shift algorithm. I'm not talking about the automatic transmission at all.

Kamov's company has colossal experience, great scientific potential, highly qualified specialists and production culture. Most importantly, they worked to improve their products. Technique changed, evolved to the requirements of combat operations. People generally care about the protection of the crew and the survivability of the vehicle even at the development stage, and not in the hope of armor on the windows and a home-made steel shield in front of the radiator. I will leave aside the claim that Kamov's development did not proceed as quickly and not as qualitatively as I wanted. Work was underway. What can not be said about the manufacturers of army trucks.

KamAZ remained a mining dump truck with minor modifications. It seems that they have one drawing board and a T-square for the entire enterprise since the construction of the plant. At times they lengthen the frame, remove the dump truck body to make it look like a truck tractor, change the name of the model. But the cabover mining dump truck remains. Karma cannot be deceived by any newfangled colorful presentations.

At the "Ural" there was a transition from a gasoline engine to a diesel one. That's all. Unless now they have Ural and Kamaz on their cabs. Very serious and timely improvements.

Ready for reproaches that just recently, at another show, our legendary army truck manufacturers demonstrated a prototype of an armored truck. True, five meters or more high, of incredible length and mass, even at a price that outweighs a charged sports car of hand-made piece production. What did they do before that, what did their design bureaus do?

Why are they moving only now? Prior to this, the alignment, when, when a mine was blown up, everyone who was in the car went to Valhalla - did it suit you? Losses and characteristics of losses during the hostilities in Afghanistan and the Caucasus did not say anything at all? No, this is a complete disqualification and loss of confidence.

If someone says that this is complete nonsense - entrust the development of an army armored truck to a helicopter manufacturer. Then what is the name of sending a convoy of ammunition trucks, with absolutely no protection, into territory where an ambush is possible, in the hope that it will blow? I know perfectly well that such columns move under the cover of armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles, sometimes even a helicopter gets.

Only they are usually surprised in the first place in the form of a mine or a rocket-propelled grenade.

Then comes the unhurried massacre of the unarmed column. In modern realities, in a good way, even a column with armored trucks and the cover of an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle must be equipped with at least two attack drones. One ahead for reconnaissance, the second above the column for cover from above. I will leave this wishlist without comment. About drones will be in the next part.

2. Armored non-trucks


It turns out that the troops still need more than just trucks to transport personnel. We need cars and also armored vehicles. Bobby are good for fishing, trips out of town and for parades. That's all.

In this weight category, there seems to be slight progress, and it’s not worth hitting Mil’s developers with a forehead for now. Apparently, our beloved ones have seen enough of the Hammers "generals" and wanted the same machine. It just got better. There is armor, mine protection and even a winch. Who went as a driver or a passenger - tell us about your impressions. How does it compare to an armored personnel carrier and a truck?

What needs to be improved, what to add and what to remove? From myself I will add wishes for further development.

The transition in the next incarnation to a universal platform, when a wide range of vehicles can be produced on the basis of the chassis. Increasing the level of booking. PCT is often used for a long time and in many places. You should not hope that you will have to face an enemy armed with AKMSU-74 and 12-gauge rifles.

3. Maintainability


The next Wishlist is maintainability.

This is a fundamental requirement, and it remains to be seen what is more important: high protection against 12,7 caliber or maintainability. Those who are familiar with the analytics of the victory of the Soviet troops on the Kursk Bulge noticed that one of the victory factors was the high maintainability of our tanks. It was easier to repair in the field. And this served as one of the guarantors of victory in that battle.

I often heard references to the mothers of the Urals developers from drivers who had the good fortune to repair a car in the field. About the convenience of access to the nodes, the originality of the design, about ... On KamAZ, of course, you need to bow to the cabin, otherwise there is no way. But if it rains, he climbed up with a tent or a piece of cellophane, and there is more access to the knots.

There are charms in a raised cab than riding on the hood. But maintainability should be initially considered and laid down with the expectation of adverse field conditions, low qualification of personnel and the absence of a wide list of spare parts.

How does the acceptance of military equipment look like for us (and not only)? Manufacturers arrived at the test site with samples of their equipment, showed what it was capable of or unable to do, then, perhaps, a decision would be made to adopt or refuse. Compliance with the specified parameters and characteristics does not cover the entire life cycle of the equipment. It tends to break or it will break, the latter is more likely.

Therefore, in an amicable way, it is necessary to add the requirement of maintainability. If a developer, in a creative impulse, believes that his equipment will always be serviced in sealed heated boxes with lifts, hoists and auxiliary equipment, the deputy technician will always have a full range of all kinds of hardware and repair kits in his pockets, and certified mechanics with two-meter hands and a grip of fingers will repair, like a vice.

Let him continue to think so, and nothing more. When, with all the compliance with the given parameters, the equipment is not designed for repair and restoration in the field by incompetent personnel with minimal repair opportunities, it has nothing more to do than prototypes.

What can be suggested to reduce the time for troubleshooting and troubleshooting? I do not consider transferring the experience of finding and eliminating the cause, depending on the sounds produced and characteristic symptoms, from the older experienced generation to the new one with the help of magic pendles and slaps. Equipment should be repaired and put into operation as soon as possible, and not sort things out and make assumptions.

At the same time, many middle-class passenger cars have diagnostic systems that include an on-board computer and a universal bus for connecting sensors. And they did not appear yesterday, on some models - at the beginning of the century. Here I do not advocate installing a mountain of sensors and entangling the car with a CAN bus, when the car will not start if the sensor fails.

This happens on some cars. I'm talking about a diagnostic system that will allow you to identify a malfunction without disassembling the units, listening to the engine and dancing with a tambourine. It is very interesting to find out in the comments why they are so afraid or hate electronics on domestic ground vehicles? "Generals" expect that it will be operated directly at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion?

How else to explain the absence of not only the semblance of a navigator for the driver, but even a walkie-talkie? I am generally silent about the system for diagnosing the state of machine components.

4. Living conditions


Sometimes it happens that armored vehicles are installed at the post behind a pile of boxes, reinforced concrete blocks or in a caponier. Day and night, soldiers guard the enemy in it. This is the guard post. Only without the parting and changing of the guard. If it is warm during the day, the armor tends to warm up well in the sun, at night there can be a full dubak.

The dimensions of the BMP do not allow to warm up, to warm up the frozen, swollen parts of the body, as is possible at the post on guard. Sometimes the weather does not allow much to lean out on the street. Rain, snow is poured in such a way that, well, it’s in FIG. I didn’t have to meet working stoves, and they plant a battery well, because these are military stoves. Start engine to warm up salon, is not always possible.

They may simply not understand or fire at. We do not provide options with two engines in principle, when one is “marching”, the second with a power of 5–10 hp. With. - for charging batteries, powering electronics and electric drives, as well as heating, cooling, ventilation. Our industry simply does not produce anything like this.

From what comes to mind - engines for "Minsk", "Izhey", "Urals" and squalor for "Oka". Therefore, the fighters, in order not to completely die, go to various tricks. Friends made fires inside the equipment. They warmed themselves in a black way, at the same time they prepared seagulls. In order not to burn, they opened hatches or loopholes. In the summer, in the sun, of course, all the hatches wide open and poured water on myself. You sit in a lump, you dry out. If ventilation, then natural in the form of a breeze in open hatches. Tankers, respond, who really has the ventilation of the powder gases of the shot? In armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, I have not seen such a chip in the factory configuration.

I know a story about a soldier's overcoat. That it was invented by the best Soviet scientists. In summer it is not hot because it is unlined, in winter it is not cold because it is woolen. Some were lucky to walk around in it and test the beauty of the bike for themselves. Therefore, I do not propose to trim the insides of military vehicles with an overcoat.

I suggest that the developers in the design bureau think about the fact that people can stay in the equipment for a long time and be on combat duty. Although it is believed that a modern tank lives 15-20 minutes on the battlefield, only in this tank sometimes you have to live for months. And to maintain acceptable conditions, there is usually nothing but a steel floor on which to build a fire.
Author:
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 13 October 2022 03: 45
    +22
    this article, you need Putin, with Misharin, (and a hedgehog with them) to be forced to re-read a hundred times. brought the country, instead of "jerk".
    1. Asad
      Asad 13 October 2022 03: 51
      +20
      I don’t know about Misharin, but I completely agree. The author deserves a plus.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 13 October 2022 07: 45
        +8
        Quote: ASAD
        The author is a well-deserved plus.

        I agree.
        There are problems described by the author, there have been for a long time, I would like to see attempts to solve them ... But isn’t it better to start with combat armored vehicles - armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles, there is also a lot of work there ...
        1. lucul
          lucul 13 October 2022 08: 40
          +10
          There are problems described by the author, there are for a long time, I would like to see attempts to solve them ...

          The capabilities of a technique are determined by its motor (excess power). The greater the variety of motors, the more opportunities for technology. And we have a small selection of engines for trucks, one or two and miscalculated. Therefore, the first thing to do is R & D for new lines of engines, from 1 liter to huge ship diesels.
          1. Civil
            Civil 13 October 2022 08: 50
            +4
            The author is right - I strongly upvote the article. Everything is clear, I agree with every word. I would add a mate, but I can't.
          2. lis-ik
            lis-ik 13 October 2022 19: 11
            +1
            Quote: lucul
            And we have a small selection of engines for trucks, one or two and miscalculated. Therefore, the first thing to do is R&D for new lines of engines, from 1 liter to huge ship diesels

            With engines (serial), as well as with electronics, we have always had problems, since the days of the USSR, historically.
          3. Ilgizl
            Ilgizl 14 October 2022 23: 31
            +3
            in our country, the automotive industry is at the mercy of foreign companies and, apart from projects, has not really developed for more than 30 years. Everyone is trying to take foreign cars, construction and agricultural equipment is also foreign ... But it starts small and ascending.
    2. Mikhail Drabkin
      Mikhail Drabkin 13 October 2022 04: 15
      +6
      Deadcastold:
      with Misharin

      is the geometric mean between Mishustin and Mizintsev :)?
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 13 October 2022 04: 46
        0
        Quote: Michael Drabkin
        Deadcastold:
        with Misharin

        is the geometric mean between Mishustin and Mizintsev :)?

        if you like.
    3. 2112vda
      2112vda 13 October 2022 08: 01
      +15
      The article should be read, first of all, in Rostec and the Ministry of Industry and Trade. The article is awesome. The most disgusting thing is that the questions and problems raised in this article can be attributed to technology, or rather its absence, in all branches of the military. Our military theorists screwed up with their concept of a "compact professional army". Now let's see if there will be organizational conclusions for responsible generals in the army and "generals" from production. I think not, Putin does not give up "his" people.
      1. dauria
        dauria 13 October 2022 10: 27
        +4
        The most disgusting thing is that the questions and problems raised in this article can be attributed to technology, or rather its absence, in all branches of the military

        The Mi-8 had a KO-50 stove. Excellent kerosene unit. Outside on the starboard side. At least even when working outside, it was possible to run in to warm up in the cabin. And on the 24th it's already dreary. Only MPshka rescued - an autonomous kerosene stove with a gasoline motor-fan. The air was chasing around the stove and further along the canvas sleeve into the cabin (or wherever you put it, at least into a beam).
        But there were only a couple of them per squadron, and even they were borrowed by infantrymen of the MSD to heat the general's hotel. Transbaikalia, missing electricity and cool batteries are the norm.
        1. your1970
          your1970 14 October 2022 12: 44
          0
          Quote: dauria
          But there were only a couple of them per squadron, and even those were borrowed by MSD infantrymen

          It's extremely rich.
          MP-40 is assigned 1 per Mi-8 squadron and 2 in the TEC. No more.
          If the squadrons are MI-24, then 1 MP-40 and one reserve. Togo 3 MP for 2 squadrons of 24-k.
          Everything else is exclusively "serpent gorynych" / "dragon" / "warm"
        2. Barberry25
          Barberry25 14 October 2022 12: 54
          -2
          just don’t tell the author that the White Eagle is on the t-90m and t-72b2 APU ... for him it will be a shock
          1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
            Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 October 2022 21: 38
            +1
            In the BMP, there is unexpectedly a hood, exactly what powder gases are. And there is a system for creating excess pressure for operations in conditions of radioactive contamination.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 17 October 2022 21: 56
              0
              the author is very far removed from reality
      2. ramzay21
        ramzay21 16 October 2022 20: 18
        0
        The article should be read, first of all, in Rostec and the Ministry of Industry and Trade.

        Investigators should work in Rostec and the Ministry of Industry and Trade using the methods of the NKVD of 1937. And they don’t give a damn about articles like common thoughts, they live well and everything suits them.
    4. Million
      Million 13 October 2022 08: 29
      +10
      Do you think they will understand something? Boys in such matters "do not rummage." They can only give money and say: make it "beautiful."
    5. your1970
      your1970 14 October 2022 12: 38
      +2
      Quote: Dead Day
      this article, you need Putin, with Misharin, (and a hedgehog with them) to be forced to re-read a hundred times. brought the country, instead of "jerk".

      Author-.............!
      First, it requires an automatic transmission and sensors in trucks and immediately requires field maintainability. He does not understand that field maintainability is possible in the only case - when there is a lorry engine, and not a modern diesel engine (with minimal tolerances) - which not everyone undertakes to repair even under normal garage conditions. You can’t replace the crankshaft liners with a soldier’s leather belt.
      And for the company, the author also offers to book - to further complicate access to the units ....
      So the choice here is either a conditional lorry repaired on the knee with the help of boards, a sledgehammer and a mat, or a modern truck, which is not repairable for the field in principle.

      He sings songs about helicopter armor and does not understand that more cars are needed by orders of magnitude. Forgetting about the required number of helicopters in 2-3 000 and which cars should be extremely numerous, at least 10 times
    6. Barberry25
      Barberry25 14 October 2022 12: 52
      +3
      if instead of a laxative, then yes, you can even 200 times ... but in fact, nonsense .. with the same success, you can ask Lobaev to make tanks. And Almaz is drones.
    7. Munhausen
      15 October 2022 01: 59
      +1
      It's like they're trying to take the country out. They do a lot of amazing things. Here are just so many traitors and pests that you can’t accelerate much.
      It was a great surprise and revelation for me to learn about the behavior and amount of betrayal among famous media personalities during the beginning of the SVO. And they have a serious influence even on minds grown up and taught by life.
  2. Mikhail Drabkin
    Mikhail Drabkin 13 October 2022 04: 05
    +4
    —-Thanks to Eugene for the topic and sharpened headings!!!

    - Living conditions and life support in the “not in combat” phase is a voluminous conversation. In the Army, the traditions of real attention to the needs of the triggers are historically completely yesterday in the centuries-old history of the Russian Armed Forces ... unfortunately. A big thank you for this!!
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 13 October 2022 05: 40
      +15
      All this machinery is sharpened in order to: "To endure all the hardships and hardships of military service." soldier
      1. novel66
        novel66 13 October 2022 10: 49
        +6
        exactly exactly, comfort? toilet paper?? no, not about us, only overcoming!
        Volodya, healthy hi
  3. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 13 October 2022 05: 17
    -10
    Not satisfied with aluminum - there is titanium. The ninth most abundant element in the earth's crust.
    Phrase level shows! And metallic hydrogen is perhaps the most durable material in the universe, the only thing is to compress it to such a state that it is not used? (sarcasm).
    The author did not remember at all a single sample of armored cabs for trucks, that KAMAZs and Urals, did not give a damn about light armored vehicles, which are being produced more and more. The level of the article from this has generally grown, negatively.
    1. 2112vda
      2112vda 13 October 2022 08: 11
      +12
      About the titan. Russia is one of the largest producers of titanium rolled products and titanium castings. The fact that all this is "chasing" abroad is not a question for the author, but for our powers that be. Currently, a technology is being developed to extract titanium from ores with a high content of silicates. We have a huge raw material base for titanium, and here we need desire, investment, and coercion for the widespread use of titanium. Potatoes in Russia were also introduced through coercion, now the second bread. So the level of knowledge of the author is normal. And then there are scandium, zirconium, niobium and a host of other interesting alloying elements. The processing industry needs to be developed, and not to drive rolled products and blanks abroad. Well, now about the most durable material in the universe. It's not exotic metallic hydrogen that no one has seen, it's ordinary sand or silicon dioxide.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 13 October 2022 08: 17
        -1
        Quote: 2112vda
        We have a huge raw material base for titanium, and here we need desire, investment, and coercion for the widespread use of titanium.

        And hydrogen reserves are not exhaustible at all ..
        .
        Quote: 2112vda
        So the level of knowledge of the author is normal.
        It’s a pity that he doesn’t allow the author, like you, to understand the cost of producing individual parts, the difficulty in welding / assembling them, and don’t understand what the prospects for field repairs are.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 13 October 2022 10: 26
          +7
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          It’s a pity that he doesn’t allow the author, like you, to understand the cost of producing individual parts, the difficulty in welding / assembling them, and don’t understand what the prospects for field repairs are.

          So a wise owl is a strategist, and questions of tactics are not his level. smile
          Just think, welding under argon or helium, and even better - in protective chambers. Yes, and the welders themselves of such qualifications are lying around under any fence.

          I immediately recall how the Germans during the war were forced to abandon cemented armor in mass tanks. An excellent thing - durable, with equal resistance, it has a smaller thickness and weight, but the trouble is that field repairs with the preservation of properties are practically impossible.
      2. Barberry25
        Barberry25 14 October 2022 12: 56
        +2
        only one moment - we have several thousand combat helicopters at the most, each costs hundreds of million rubles, but trucks will need to be purchased TENS of thousands, and if each of them costs 30 million rubles, then we will have problems with the purchase of other equipment .. The principle of choosing 2 out of 3 "fast, high quality, cheap" has not gone away ... it is especially touching that we begin to suffer such nonsense during the NWO period .. really people have nothing to do
        1. Munhausen
          16 October 2022 23: 18
          +1
          Quote: Barberry25
          only one moment - we have several thousand combat helicopters, each costs hundreds of million rubles

          Let's write down the cost of nodes in a modern combat helicopter. The most expensive part there is electronics. He is crammed with it from top to bottom and without it, he won’t fly in. It won't even start. Then there are engines and a ton of gears between them - the same gearbox lol
          Inflatable blades, a swashplate, a system for supplying air to the blades, a suspension capable of withstanding a helicopter fall from a height of 2 meters, all this is not so expensive and not so heavy compared to the gearbox, which seems to be all made of light alloys, but weighs a ton.
          You don't need to put any of the above on the truck. Only adapt the cockpit reservation system for ground vehicles. Do you think this is an unsolvable engineering problem? If so, then next time you should not be sad that everything is so bad with us.

          Quote: Barberry25
          if each of them costs 30 million rubles, then we will have problems with the purchase of other equipment ...

          Look at the cost of the army Urals that just left the assembly line. The same ancient one that is still being riveted without a twinge of conscience. It's not that far off the number you quoted. It’s interesting for yourself why ferrous metal on wheels is so expensive and what such production costs are associated with.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 16 October 2022 23: 39
            0
            Well, since you decide to write an article, then be kind enough to at least calculate the cost of your idea
            1. Munhausen
              19 October 2022 01: 33
              0
              How much will a living and unharmed person return from the front cost for some enterprises? For the state, this person is priceless, otherwise it would not have been waiting for him back. Because he is the foundation of the state. So that our dear and beloved ones would not sing to us that the whole country rests on their fragile female shoulders lol
              Since you went to talk like that, how much do you think a man of military age with a secondary education, an average income, with a wife, a child and a domestic cat costs? How? Write a number. Maybe you really shouldn't bother with all this? Do it the old fashioned way, throw it into a wagon and clear the fields on foot to the front.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 19 October 2022 10: 54
                -1
                I asked you a specific question, how much does your craft cost, where to produce it, what engine will it be, what brand of armor will it be, how much will it carry and how far .. If you cannot answer these questions, just write nonsense about "well helicopters, that is, have armor!" ... then I see no reason to talk with a stupid person who wastes my time
                1. marswell
                  marswell 19 October 2022 21: 18
                  -1
                  in general, you’re just being rude and besides, you’re wasting your time on rudeness and answers yourself - just shut up and that’s it - no, you need to stink
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 19 October 2022 23: 18
                    -1
                    if the author wrote nonsense, then it’s easier to say about it right away than to joyfully applaud as others do. musketeer.
                    1. Munhausen
                      26 October 2022 22: 31
                      -1
                      The author's Wishlist is quite simple and complex at the same time. So that the difference between those who went to war and those who returned was minimal. And the state of health before and after, too. I don’t know about the rest, I think it’s not crazy at all. Sorry if your understanding is different. I do not know what scheme is needed and why. Phase space of events, graph of decision making?
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 27 October 2022 09: 23
                        +1
                        those. the author has no idea what he wants and how to do it? with the same success you can assemble an armored car for 3 rubles in your garage on Saturdays for a month, which you want to demand for supplies.
                      2. Munhausen
                        31 October 2022 00: 21
                        0
                        The funny thing is that these garage crafts are at least a little bit closer to the real requirements of life. And what does our non-garage industry produce? What do you have?
                      3. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 31 October 2022 18: 22
                        +1
                        the problem in your case is that there are not even garage crafts, not even drawings, even plans for drawings on pipifax ...
                2. Munhausen
                  26 October 2022 22: 22
                  0
                  What is the point even in approximate numbers? They won't give anything and you won't do anything. You and I simply do not have any opportunities for that. Alas, we can only write comments.
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 27 October 2022 09: 24
                    0
                    meaning in numbers, that instead of wasting time on "I'm for all the good and against all the bad" you will try to at least understand how to implement it, and don't waste paper on all sorts of nonsense, if you can't even clearly state what you want, then your article does not make sense and was written only for the sake of hype
                    1. Munhausen
                      31 October 2022 00: 12
                      0
                      I ask you to calm down, do not worry about the paper. Even if electronic wink And refer to the preface to the article. It’s just practically written word for word, something that you’ve been gently trying to convey to me for a week now. Please calm down and give me a minus. I will be pleased good
      3. Munhausen
        16 October 2022 23: 22
        -1
        Even in the Kherson region, we got a plant for the production of titanium, which brought down prices in its time and competed well with our plants. It seems that there are deposits of titanium ores in the same regions.
    2. Munhausen
      15 October 2022 02: 07
      -1
      Metallic hydrogen is far from being a strong material, especially under normal earth conditions.

      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The author did not remember at all a single sample of armored cabs for trucks, that KAMAZs and Urals, did not give a damn about light armored vehicles, which are being produced more and more.

      The author walked quite gently through the foolishness that is trying to degenerate the auto industry. The most important thing is that you won’t be alive with one armored cabin. A truck can contain extremely explosive cargo and non-sizable personnel.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 17 October 2022 15: 31
        0
        there are armored capsules for this, and yes. Will there be a specific proposal with a project and a price? Otherwise, in fact, as an author, you are engaged in direct wrecking, not even with the project, but with thoughts about the project
        1. Munhausen
          19 October 2022 01: 17
          -1
          Where are these armored capsules? Show how equipment built on armored capsules is now helping our military in denazification. It is very interesting to look at a column of trucks with armored capsules for drivers who are carrying fuel for armored vehicles in areas that are under fire. Where are they all? On papers with proposals and projects, do they consider the estimate? From what is seen and heard, only how the country helps with money and things in approaching victory.
          Now the state pays half a million rubles for the birth of a child. Then there are child benefits. The kindergarten and school are also paid from the treasury. And then you have to pay another million rubles for the deceased. Plus huge moral costs, because the deceased is often the breadwinner in the family. And his loss does not go unnoticed by the family. We have a lack of male population without any wars.
          After all this, some of our producers are not pests? Those who cannot do anything for decades to protect personnel. New drivers for antediluvian equipment and fighters in the back are not their problem, but the concern of the military registration and enlistment office?
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 19 October 2022 10: 52
            0
            Have you been banned in Google or Yandex? Can’t you enter an armored Kamaz, an armored Ural into the search? to form a project, but they "gave birth" to a bunch of text in the style of all that is good and more, so in this case you are even worse than a pest
            1. Munhausen
              26 October 2022 22: 39
              -2
              While writing the article, I carefully studied the state of affairs with cargo vehicles in the US armed forces. After that, I don’t even want to drive in search engines about attempts to hastily book off-road trucks of domestic production.
              The question also remains open, where was this semblance of booking 30, 20, 10 years ago? For example, in the helicopter industry they thought about it and put it into practice.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 27 October 2022 09: 25
                0
                you didn’t study anything, because apart from “let’s do it like in helicopters, let’s have air conditioning” you didn’t write anything
  4. faiver
    faiver 13 October 2022 05: 42
    -16
    A set of fantastic Wishlist - nothing ....
    withstand 12,7 m bullets
    - why exactly 12,7mm? Come on, a 25mm projectile right away, why waste time on trifles, and immediately attack on armored trucks ....
    Maintainability .... - author, show me at least one car that the driver or mechanic / mechanic who repairs it would not use.
    Habitat conditions ... people during the Second World War somehow drove "one-and-a-half" and "zakhara", and these trucks are somehow very far from the current Kamaz and Urals in terms of living conditions, maybe the question is not in cars, but in people? - We snickered .... a little more and we won’t be able to fight without toilet paper ....
    1. SOBA4TACTICMOSCOW
      SOBA4TACTICMOSCOW 13 October 2022 07: 37
      +12
      Dear, we are talking about preserving the health and life of drugs, and you snickered right away ..
      1. faiver
        faiver 13 October 2022 08: 12
        -6
        most of the equipment in any army in the world is unarmored, since this equipment must work in the rear. If the command cannot ensure security in its rear, then it doesn’t matter if there are armored trucks there or not, the enemy will disrupt transportation if he wants to ...
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 13 October 2022 09: 44
          +5
          most of the equipment in any army in the world is unarmored, since this equipment must work in the rear. If the command cannot provide security in its rear,

          The concept of the rear is now conditional. Means of destruction can work to the entire depth of the formation of troops, not to mention the army rear. Moreover, there is no continuous front line, and the enemy in the form of raid or reconnaissance detachments, DRGs, can be found everywhere.
          Not preparing for this is criminal.
          1. faiver
            faiver 13 October 2022 10: 08
            -4
            Means of destruction can work to the entire depth of the formation of troops, not to mention the army rear
            - these weapons of 12,7mm caliber? no, it means you need to book from 155mm?
            the enemy in the form of raid or reconnaissance detachments, DRGs, can be found everywhere.
            - not everywhere, but where they click the face ..
            Not preparing for this is criminal.
            - the creation of an armored truck will not solve the problem, and it is not realistic in terms of the economic component ...
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 13 October 2022 11: 31
              +5
              are these weapons of caliber 12,7mm? no, it means you need to book from 155mm?

              undoubtedly. The armor should protect against fragments of 155 mm.
              not everywhere, but where they click the face ..

              personnel moving in the rear should not depend on beak-clicking (human factor)
              the creation of an armored truck will not solve the problem, and it is not realistic in terms of the economic component

              Creating an armored truck solves the problem. Therefore, they created a lot. In Chechnya they used armored urals, good equipment. Saved during explosions and shelling of columns, saved people's lives.
              It is economically expensive to build, but if you count the whole chain: saving lives - the ability to complete the task - deliver the goods on time - get out of the fire - win, then the benefit is clear.
              For transport vehicles, only the cabin can be booked. I don’t think that 6 square meters of metal per car will ruin the country.
            2. Lex_is
              Lex_is 13 October 2022 13: 18
              -1
              It is real and has been done for a long time.
              It is called the levels of modular booking.
              Designed to enhance protection if necessary.

              Army trucks spend most of their lives not on the battlefields, and constantly carrying a couple of tons of armor is very expensive in terms of fuel and resource. Therefore, in the west, equipment in the PPD goes without armor, and when sent to the database zone, armor modules are hung on it according to the expected threats.
        2. Munhausen
          15 October 2022 02: 14
          0
          Quote: faiver
          most of the equipment in any army in the world is unarmored, since this equipment must work in the rear.

          Should this be the starting point? In many countries of the golden billion, the LGBT movement is very widespread. Would you like to change the color? wink

          Quote: faiver
          If the command cannot ensure security in its rear, then it doesn’t matter if there are armored trucks there or not, the enemy will disrupt transportation if he wants to ...

          Sometimes command proposes, but the enemy disposes. If there is an opportunity to complicate this task for the enemy, why not use it? Maybe it's enough to clean the guns with a brick?
          1. faiver
            faiver 15 October 2022 03: 36
            +1
            Let's start small - we cannot produce ordinary modern trucks, we have the same Urals and Kamaz trucks from the 60s ....
            1. Munhausen
              19 October 2022 01: 39
              +1
              Traveled, I know. I agree with everything said. It's a similar problem with cars. And with football.
              1. faiver
                faiver 19 October 2022 07: 57
                0
                Cars have a similar problem. And with football.
                Let's not talk about sad...
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 13 October 2022 09: 35
      +2
      Habitat conditions ... during the Second World War, people somehow drove "one-and-a-half" and "zakhara", and these trucks are somehow very far in terms of living conditions to the current Kamaz and Urals,

      The issue of living conditions is more relevant than ever. If earlier tents were set up in the rear, where the personnel lived. But now such tents, with a potbelly stove installed, are a lucrative goal for which it’s not a pity to gasp with a khimars, not to mention the 777 shell. How are people now placed in the near rear, fed, washed in a bathhouse? How to live at a checkpoint?
    3. bk0010
      bk0010 13 October 2022 20: 12
      +3
      Quote: faiver
      why exactly 12,7mm?
      This is the maximum wearable caliber for a rifleman (all sorts of barrettes). Anything larger is much harder to smuggle into an ambush. It is more difficult to hit from grenade launchers, and ATGMs are heavy and expensive - it will not be in any ambush either. So the caliber is chosen correctly, but can such an armored truck drive?
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 October 2022 22: 31
        +1
        Is it really the right caliber, is it the caliber of a heavy machine gun? It will be very difficult to defend against 12,7. And in an ambush, they will not be waiting for you with 12,7-mm, you will get tired of bringing this, they will be waiting just with grenade launchers and multiply charged grenade launchers, while the grenade launchers will soon be with cumulative grenades. And armor designed for 12,7 mm will be unthinkably heavy for a truck, and it will not protect at all from a grenade launcher or grenade launcher with a cumulative grenade.
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 18 October 2022 00: 22
          0
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          And in an ambush they will not be waiting for you with 12,7 mm, you will get tired of bringing this
          The Barrett rifle, for example. 12.7
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          while grenade launchers will soon be with cumulative grenades
          They will not: there is not enough space for the funnel. Yes, and getting out of them is not easy, in the same place it will be necessary not to put a grenade within a radius of 10 m, but to get into a moving car, into a vulnerable spot.
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          And armor designed for 12,7 mm will be unthinkably heavy for a truck
          Yes, and I write about it. But for MCI - that's it.
          1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
            Sergey Aleksandrovich 18 October 2022 08: 53
            +1
            At the moment, NATO mercenaries in Ukraine are running around with something like this.

            But 12,7 mm was somehow not observed.
          2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
            Sergey Aleksandrovich 22 October 2022 22: 53
            0
            Today a photo has already appeared with a captured 12,7-mm Barrett. Forced to correct.
    4. Barberry25
      Barberry25 14 October 2022 13: 00
      +1
      so it’s not for the author to develop them and seek funds for production .. even Razvedos swears at all the Kulibins, who have now climbed out and began to offer not even products, but as the author of "projects" ..
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 13 October 2022 05: 43
    +4
    Our industry simply does not produce anything like this.
    What for? Products will become more expensive, who will take it? When, anyway, for the products of the domestic automobile industry, there is no queue. Foreign cars, the yards are full.
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 13 October 2022 07: 06
    -6
    This composition can be seen as freethinking or fantasy
    And the author will not die of modesty starting his article with such a definition. But according to the conditions of living in a tank, an armored personnel carrier, an infantry fighting vehicle, I want to remind the author of an example of the WWII period - when our tankers received American tanks, the first thing they did was stripped of the comfortable interior lining in the fighting compartment. Burns well.
    1. insafufa
      insafufa 13 October 2022 09: 16
      +6
      So now, not in the 40s of the 20th century, there are modern non-combustible materials for so long BTR 82 A are equipped with anti-fragmentation screens made of Kevlar. The presence of an auxiliary engine that helps save the resource of the main engine is not a whim, but a vital necessity allows you to significantly reduce fuel consumption and improve living inside the combat vehicle. You don’t need expensive turbines that eat like crazy, but a diesel two-stroke or four-stroke engine that generates electricity heats antifreeze and oil through a heat exchanger and charges the batteries. there are too many devices that consume a lot of energy and without which it will not be possible to fight effectively. Times are different now, and the enemy with a thermal imager and a ballistic computer from the first shot puts his crowbar in your ass, while you, like our grandfathers, look closely, illuminating the direction of the shot from the searchlight and aim and make corrections manually.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 13 October 2022 10: 58
        +5
        Quote: insafufa
        The presence of an auxiliary engine that helps save the resource of the main engine is not a whim, but a vital necessity allows you to significantly reduce fuel consumption and improve living inside the combat vehicle.

        Another big plus of Sherman was recharging the batteries. On our thirty-four, to charge the battery, it was necessary to drive the engine at full power, all 500 horses. In Sherman's fighting compartment, there was a charging gasoline walk-behind tractor, small, like a motorcycle. Started it - and he charged your battery. For us it was a great thing!
        © Vine
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 13 October 2022 09: 50
      -1
      our tankers, upon receiving American tanks, the first thing they did was peel off the comfortable inner lining in the fighting compartment. Burns well.

      after hitting the vehicle, if it didn’t kill you right away, you have 2-3 seconds to jump out. Otherwise, either burn up with the iron, or scatter along with the b / c.
      You can even upholster with dermantine, it will not affect survival.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 13 October 2022 10: 57
        +2
        Quote: glory1974
        after hitting the vehicle, if it didn’t kill you right away, you have 2-3 seconds to jump out. Otherwise, either burn up with the iron, or scatter along with the b / c.

        By the way, Loza mentioned that on Lend-Lease tanks, BC did not explode during a fire - unlike domestic ones:
        If the T-34 caught fire, we tried to run away from it, although this was forbidden. The ammunition exploded. For some time, about a month and a half, I fought on the T-34, near Smolensk. They knocked out the commander of one of the companies of our battalion. The crew jumped out of the tank and the Germans pinned them down with machine-gun fire. They lay down there, in buckwheat, and at that time the tank exploded. In the evening, when the battle died down, we approached them. I look, the commander is lying, and a piece of armor crushed his head. But when Sherman burned down, the shells did not explode. Why is that?

        Once in Ukraine there was such a case. I was temporarily assigned to the post of head of the artillery supply of the battalion. They knocked out our tank. We jumped out of it, and the Germans squeezed us with dense mortar fire. We climbed under the tank, and it caught fire. Here we are, with nowhere to go. And where to? In field? There, the Germans on a high-rise shoot everything from machine guns and mortars. We are lying. Already in the back the heat bakes. The tank is on fire. We think that's it, now it will boom and there will be a mass grave. We hear in the tower boom-boom-boom! Yeah, these are armor-piercing knocks out of the shells: they were unitary. Now the fire will reach the fragmentation ones and how it will gasp! But nothing happened.
        1. forty-eighth
          forty-eighth 13 October 2022 14: 13
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          on Lend-Lease tanks, BC did not explode in a fire

          The so-called "wet" ammunition
        2. DenVB
          DenVB 14 October 2022 01: 35
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          By the way, Loza mentioned that on Lend-Lease tanks, BC did not explode during a fire - unlike domestic

          And it is still not clear - what was the secret of the non-detonating BC? Either the explosives are more inert, or the design of the fuses is more thoughtful. Perhaps that secret would not hurt us even now.
    3. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 October 2022 10: 33
      -1
      Quote: rotmistr60
      our tankers, upon receiving American tanks, the first thing they did was peel off the comfortable inner lining in the fighting compartment. Burns well.

      The Shermans were painted white on the inside.
      1. rotmistr60
        rotmistr60 13 October 2022 11: 01
        0
        Did I write about "Sherman"? As an example: "Medium tank M3" LI "... Spacious body, comfortable seats, soft upholstery of the inner walls"From the memoirs of WWII tankers.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 October 2022 21: 01
          +1
          And the name says "grave for six."
    4. Dedok
      Dedok 14 October 2022 16: 30
      -1
      Quote: rotmistr60
      our tankers, upon receiving American tanks, the first thing they did was peel off the comfortable inner lining in the fighting compartment. Burns well.

      no: one old man worked for me in the 70s, since he pulls a glass, so tell for a Sherman, and not for 34 ...
    5. Munhausen
      15 October 2022 02: 25
      0
      We started talking about the Second World War, let's continue in this vein. Let's bring back windings instead of boots or boots. Don't know what it is? Raised on Soviet films? In general, in the Second World War, the problem was with shoes, not everyone got boots. Now not everyone remembers about footcloths, and even more so about windings. Let's return the overcoat and budennovki.
      The fact is that the author has many relatives who went through the Second World War, and only having felt part of it in his own skin, he understood what they meant when they talked about the war.
  7. Konnick
    Konnick 13 October 2022 08: 04
    0
    I wonder if the author himself is related to engineering or as a writer from Chukotka?
    We have enough critics, but there are not enough talented creators of new technology.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 13 October 2022 09: 53
      0
      We have enough critics, but there are not enough talented creators of new technology

      We also have creators in the troops, so the equipment will be armored and disguised, you will admire it. Yes, and there are probably young people at the factories with their breakthrough ideas. The trouble is that they are not allowed to realize their potential.
      1. faiver
        faiver 13 October 2022 10: 11
        0
        We also have creators in the troops, so the equipment will be armored and disguised, you will admire
        - we saw photos with birch and other logs on equipment ...
      2. Barberry25
        Barberry25 14 October 2022 13: 07
        -1
        the trouble is that we have half of the breakthrough ideas like this article - everything good is more and free. Only reality is quite harsh: everything costs money and everything has certain difficulties. In fact, we have armored trucks, but there are few of them and normally we need to increase them production, not Mriya about the superwunderwaffle to give birth
    2. Munhausen
      15 October 2022 02: 27
      0
      You won't be fooled laughing He is the most Chukotka writer wink
  8. vovochkarzhevsky
    vovochkarzhevsky 13 October 2022 11: 09
    0
    Have we abandoned air mobility? However, judging by these indicators, then yes.
    In general, America also has more helicopters: this is 5 units compared to 561 units in Russia. There are 1 attack helicopters in the United States, and 573 in the Russian Federation. As for transport aviation, the United States also has more such equipment in general: the States have 1 units of equipment, while Russia has 193 units.

    In the USSR there were about 7200 military helicopters.
    1. Suhoy
      Suhoy 16 October 2022 02: 00
      0
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      Have we abandoned air mobility?

      Well, today we have a bunch of airmobile equipment, including very airmobile (landed) in the same Airborne Forces. How many times has this quality been used? And how many had to sacrifice for him? I’m silent about the fact that our paratroopers have never fulfilled their duty precisely as airmobile troops (DShB is a separate issue).
      1. vovochkarzhevsky
        vovochkarzhevsky 16 October 2022 10: 06
        0
        Yes, yes, but we all dreamed of Afghanistan. Do not confuse airborne and airborne.
    2. Suhoy
      Suhoy 16 October 2022 02: 12
      0
      Quote: SUhoy
      I’m silent about the fact that our paratroopers have never fulfilled their duty precisely as airmobile troops

      Yes, and it is not realistic in modern conditions. Parachute landings remained in the last century.
      1. Maxim G
        Maxim G 16 October 2022 12: 05
        0
        We are talking about airmobiles - different helicopters are used for transferring, striking, etc.
  9. vvn_vl
    vvn_vl 13 October 2022 11: 43
    +1
    I agree with you ... and you look who, under the guise of military experts, is broadcasting from the screens ?? either former political bums, or - with vague biographies. but - with what a smart look they discuss technical issues and performance characteristics of our and enemy equipment ... ?? I suspect that similar trepologists are sitting in the offices of the Ministry of Defense
  10. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 October 2022 11: 49
    0
    Chinese people's volunteers successfully covered 75 kilometers in just one night, in December 1950, in the snows in the mountains of Korea, only with their own feet. And all the weapons, ammunition, supplies - everything beat on their shoulders. No tanks, no aircraft, no cars. A full division seeped through the front and in one night occupied a road junction in the thila of the Americans. And the enemy ran to escape, leaving tanks, guns, trucks and an airfield with planes.
    1. Munhausen
      15 October 2022 02: 54
      0
      Also a story for me. You are not ashamed of our veterans. I am telling the story of a man who participated in the defeat of the Kwantung Army in Manchuria.
      Their offensive lasted 20 hours a day. Sleep and everything else 4 hours. But then the command reduced the pace to 18 hours a day. Because cases began to occur when the fighters fell asleep on the spot and fell under their equipment or drivers fell asleep and began to crush their own. Since there were problems with cargo vehicles, they dragged many things on themselves or put them in boats and, like barge haulers, pulled them along. Windings on the legs, overcoats on the shoulders.
      Another told a little about how they partisans in Belarus. He says you are walking with the last of your strength in the snow. You are exhausted, you fall into the snow and you see how steam is pouring from the snow. There is no strength to rise and go, but it is necessary. Didn't say many things. Did not want.
      But how many such people can you find now? Many of us turned out to be only capable of heroically overcoming the borders with Georgia and Kazakhstan. They have tucked up pants in their smoothie head.
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 16 October 2022 17: 18
        0
        Quote from Munhausen
        Many of us turned out to be only capable of heroically overcoming the borders with Georgia and Kazakhstan. They have tucked up pants in their smoothie head.

        Say thanks to those who for thirty years did everything to make these people flee Russia.
        1. Munhausen
          16 October 2022 20: 01
          0
          No one in particular to speak. This is such an upbringing. Our home education. Slightly some aggravation of the situation or worsening of the situation, so immediately run away.
          Recently I talked with computer scientists, most of them are just like that. During the beginning of the CBO, they screamed out loud how hard it was for them that they could not pay for purchases using smart watches and that it was inconvenient to do this with a card. They cursed the power on what the light stands for the inconvenience and discomfort caused. Now who has escaped, who is at a low start because horror, horror!!!
          What were the names of workers in your childhood, who in words were heroes and winners in life, and in the event of the first aggravation of the situation, they made their legs shine as much as their heels? And no one from the government or the State Department made them like that. They were brought up like that. And now we have more than one generation of such people.
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 17 October 2022 22: 35
            0
            Quote from Munhausen
            And now we have more than one generation of such people.

            And did such generations somehow organize themselves in our country? Of course no. Everything has its prerequisites. If for 30 years the authorities did almost everything exclusively for themselves, shamelessly robbing, deceiving and humiliating the people. She tried to fit into the world system of division of labor in a servile way, shamelessly trading her Motherland. Now it is somehow strange to demand patriotism from people. Yes, and it is dubious patriotism to climb into one's own, which is essentially a banal defense by our ruling class of their own, and never the interests of the common people. Why should people waste their health? In order for Abramovich, a patriot with two passports, to earn an extra billion? So he can’t even behave normally towards the people of Russia. This is in addition to everything else. After all, he spat in the face of people when the Nazis of Azov gave iPhones. People are dying there in Ukraine, and this scum gives iPhones to outright Nazis. iPhones for which he earned by robbing the Russian people. Fire in our village of fools there is no dying for the happiness of the oligarch, look for them in your village.
            1. Munhausen
              19 October 2022 00: 36
              0
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              And did such generations somehow organize themselves in our country?

              Named so. Education is, first of all, an intra-family duty and value. For some reason, with all the returbations in Chechnya, everything is fine with patriotic education and family values. No one fled to Georgia when mobilization was announced, although they border directly on the Georgians and almost three times overfulfilled the mobilization plan.

              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              If for 30 years the authorities have been doing almost everything exclusively for themselves, shamelessly robbing, deceiving and humiliating the people

              The people are made up of people. And a person is treated exactly as he himself allows it.
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 22 October 2022 16: 51
                0
                Quote from Munhausen
                Named so.

                It's not like that. The economy is the basis, and everything else is the superstructure. And this is the basis we have and formed these same generations. No need to deceive yourself with Chechnya. There are people with a backward social consciousness. They don't understand much yet. But we can fix it. One day they will understand. And besides Chechnya, there is also Dagestan, in which very remarkable events took place.
                Quote from Munhausen
                The people are made up of people. And a person is treated exactly as he himself allows it.

                Logically. Accordingly, people put a bolt on the demagogy of the authorities and their desire to solve the problems of the capitalists at the expense of ordinary Russians.
  11. Smirnov Sergey
    Smirnov Sergey 13 October 2022 11: 52
    +3
    1. Everything is lumped together. Armored trucks? This is an armored personnel carrier. They are needed just for what the author wrote, and not for fire support during the battle. Unarmored trucks such as Urals (not typhoon-y) should not get to the front line in a good way, but they always have a chance to run into a DRG, for which they travel with military guards, blow up on a landmine or fall under a fire raid. Therefore, I want to provide protection, but really use some kind of bulletproof booking. You cannot protect any truck from a 122mm land mine, shell or grenade launcher.
    Note that infantry often continues to ride on armor rather than inside, preferring situational awareness and responsiveness to defense. That is, additional Armor is not a panacea.
    2. But the equipment of equipment with auxiliary power plants and air conditioning systems is only for.
    3. If the post is long-term, then a caring commander will provide the fighters with a kung or similar for domestic needs. Such equipment should also be in the troops.
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 14 October 2022 17: 20
      0
      Well, in principle, the cabin needs to be booked, in principle, the Moscow Region bought such trucks, but there are not enough of them


      It is also important to understand that Kamaz with an armored cab can deliver 6 tons of cargo, but with an armored body like "Pokemon" only 2 tons
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 16 October 2022 17: 20
      +1
      And how are you going to carry cargo to the front line? A truck operating close to the front today should be armored. At least the cab.
  12. realist
    realist 13 October 2022 11: 54
    +1
    Very funny. And a little sad. The necessary armored truck is already being made for the US Army, it costs from $ 500, Ural or Kamaz cost less than 000 million rubles, the price depends heavily on the volume of production. And we, as you know, do not live in the richest country. Kamaz (hoodless scheme) for the army is a very so-so solution, the bonneted scheme is more conducive to crew survival.
    But in general, everything is so, it is necessary to change a lot.
  13. Victor Leningradets
    Victor Leningradets 13 October 2022 13: 10
    0
    Thanks Andrew, very helpful article.
    I'll try to put in my pennies.
    For me, the author did not identify the main thing that stretches from the mobilization plans of the 30s of the last century. According to these plans, all civilian transport was subject to mobilization, except for "armor". Hence the dual use, for which both Kamaz and Ural were created. And massively went, including for storage in aircraft fleets.
    This approach turned out to be fundamentally wrong, since now an army truck, or special equipment on a wheelbase, is subject to fire damage in the front line, which requires its active and passive protection. It is also necessary to use modular platforms for installation on the base chassis. This can be an armored module for transporting personnel, a mobile command post, a tanker, etc.
    The main trouble for an army truck is the requirement to comply with normal dimensions, width up to 2550 mm (for an isothermal body 2600 mm) and height up to 4000 mm.
    If in height, everything is more or less clear, then in terms of width, the requirements must meet the requirements for the dimensions of tanks transported by rail, i.e. up to 3440 mm. Such dimensions correspond, for example, to the 16-wheeled MZKT 79221 used to transport the Topol and Yars ICBMs.
    Naturally, an army truck should be lighter and have a sufficient platform to accommodate the transported modules, but it is important that there is a design reserve and a production base on which you can build a truly army truck with sufficient payload and security. At the same time, a vehicle with a carrying capacity of 10 -15 tons can carry the same 10 - 15 tons of armor and have a curb weight of 50 - 55 tons. At the same time, it will be unified in terms of engine with a tank one (though derated).
    It is also desirable to equip this machine with an automated modular anti-aircraft gun with a rapid-fire cannon, similar to that installed on the Pantsir system to counter air and ground threats.
    1. your1970
      your1970 14 October 2022 12: 56
      0
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      At the same time, a vehicle with a carrying capacity of 10 -15 tons can carry the same 10 - 15 tons of armor and have a curb weight 50 - 55 tons RџSЂRё

      Hmm ... and on which GROUND road will it pass? After the rain? In the thaw? Snow?
      fool
      1. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 15 October 2022 09: 39
        0
        With appropriate wheels - like a wheeled tractor. In any case, better than Kamaz and the Urals, and armored personnel carriers.
        Do not forget the option of changing shoes into a half-tracked transport.
        What I described is a heavy army truck (five-axle - two with large diameter wheels and three - with wheels approximately corresponding to KrAZ. A more modest three-axle version is also possible, but I don’t see suitable tasks for it.
        1. your1970
          your1970 15 October 2022 12: 55
          0
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          With appropriate wheels - like a wheeled tractor

          And do you know a lot of wheeled tractors with 50-55 tons of mass?
    2. Munhausen
      15 October 2022 03: 41
      +2
      thanks for the comment
      It's a bit unfortunate that you are talking in an outdated vein. It's not about the dimensions of the equipment and not about the ancient grades of armored steel. For example, I will take a fighter bomber of the early 2000s. How much payload can it lift? About 5 tons. How far can he deliver them on one gas station? About a thousand kilometers. A very good indicator. Trucks are far from that. Does it have protection for the pilot and important components? There is even a catapult. I foresee the statement that the plane costs horse money and what does the trucks have to do with it? I answer. The lion's share of the cost of a modern combat aircraft falls entirely neither on its engines, nor on the fuselage, nor on hydraulics. All these elements of the aircraft add up to 30% of the cost. I wrote about this in the sequel to this article. At the same time, the fuselage of the aircraft is made of composite materials that can withstand fairly high mechanical and thermal loads with a low weight and radar stealth. It's just that the creators of flight equipment do not have such an opportunity to roam with dimensions, weight and disregard for military personnel. Therefore, they have to think, solve the most complex theoretical and engineering problems, look for and find non-standard solutions. There is nothing like this in our automakers. If our automakers were to make a plane, it would never take off.
      He specifically gave an example with armor in helicopters. This technology is not a month or two, or even a dozen years. But it still does not exist even on equipment directly involved in combat contact. The protection of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles looks pathetic in the modern realities of combat.
      In other words, some military designers have had ready-made technologies for decades that can be simplified and made cheaper for use in the same military area. Only automakers are happy with everything so far. The reason for this is also described in the continuation to this article.
      1. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 15 October 2022 09: 47
        0
        Thanks for answering.
        There is something to argue about, but the idea of ​​the interpenetration of technologies is correct. Everything is true about armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles - but on the battlefield, but as a front-line transport - they are protected quite adequately. Well, and most importantly, what I wrote about, it is necessary to proceed from the operational and tactical tasks of vehicles in the war. In the rear of the front, unprotected equipment is quite acceptable. In the frontline and at the front - only protected, which means - quite expensive. Hence the requirements for such a unit are quite like an auxiliary combat vehicle. Hence the maximum carrying capacity and modularity and the installation of minimum anti-aircraft weapons.
        1. Suhoy
          Suhoy 16 October 2022 02: 20
          0
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          It is also desirable to equip this machine with an automated modular anti-aircraft gun with a rapid-fire cannon, similar to that installed on the Pantsir system to counter air and ground threats.

          Well, with an anti-aircraft gun on a truck - this, of course, is too much. wassat As for the rest, in line with the idea itself, I agree.
        2. Munhausen
          16 October 2022 21: 49
          0
          I will start the answer from afar. As an experienced mountain tourist shared important knowledge with me, even when you go to a mountain unit, prepare for the equipment as for the two, and prepare for the ascent of the third category in terms of physical fitness and skills. But always be prepared that the most unpretentious pedestrian ascent of the first category of difficulty can turn into an impassable four. The ascent itself begins when you cross the threshold of the house and go to the mountains.
          The operational and technical tasks of wheeled trucks in the theater of operations is the delivery of goods and people. Not only in our country, but also in other countries with a developed army, there are no separate military trucks for the rear and separate trucks for the front lines. And no one will say what fate awaits the truck tomorrow. Today, a driver can take artists to hospitals deep in the rear, and after tomorrow, urgently rush under fire, risking everything he has and carry shells to the front line. And at the forefront, they didn’t care at all that the car was not intended for these purposes.
          As in the case of climbing, no one can guarantee that an ordinary delivery of cargo by a column in the near rear will not turn into a fierce clash.
          There is another important point. Typically, truck chassis are used as a platform for jet systems. Which will definitely be on the line of combat contact. Making a separate car for these purposes is expensive and impractical.

          I will summarize briefly so that another dimensionless article does not turn out
          1 we are talking about equipment, which, with a certain degree of probability, may be under fire.
          2 in the rear, it is very easy and inexpensive to handle cargo transportation with ordinary trucks. Even apply for this to transport companies for the delivery of food, uniforms, equipment. No matter how wild it may sound, but this is a common world practice in the armies of NATO countries.
          3 need a universal cargo platform. Which has a chassis where you can quickly put an armored body, a KUNG, a fuel tank, a multiple rocket launcher, an anti-aircraft gun, or whatever else comes to mind. A sort of Picatinny rail on wheels and with an armored cab.
          4 It goes without saying that attachments may vary depending on the tasks. This month a fuel truck, the next six months a truck with an armored body. In fact, nothing fantastic and even more complicated. Any civilian truck tractor can be repurposed very quickly. It has pipes for connecting to a trailer with everything you need initially.
          5 protected equipment is not always very expensive, sometimes even cheaper than some civilian models. Some cash-in-transit vehicles are protected no worse than military ones. Unfortunately, here I am comparing foreign cash-in-transit vehicles and our military equipment. At the same time, they are not much more expensive than executive-class cars that the bank's management drives around and completely lose in price to the cars of bank owners. Because cash-in-transit machines are a product of a mass production system. They are also riveted on the same assembly line in droves.
          6 this system should be constantly evolving, troubleshooting and open to feedback from users. And not that once fifty years they will give that it’s not a pity.
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 16 October 2022 17: 23
      0
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      It is also desirable to equip this machine with an automated modular anti-aircraft gun with a rapid-fire cannon, similar to that installed on the Pantsir system to counter air and ground threats.

      Undesirable. You also propose to install a mortar and anti-tank missiles on it. The machine must fulfill its main purpose of transporting goods and personnel.
  14. Aleprok
    Aleprok 13 October 2022 15: 03
    -1
    about the self-diagnosis system - nonsense, the rest is correct, I will subscribe
    1. Suhoy
      Suhoy 16 October 2022 02: 33
      +1
      Yes, not so crazy. The simplest set of sensors plus a screen with the output of parameters and color signaling when undesirable values ​​are reached. Against the background of the cost of the truck - a penny.
    2. Munhausen
      16 October 2022 22: 53
      +1
      Well, why immediately nonsense? In civil aviation, this approach is already fifty years old. No one disassembles the glider and listens to the knock in the engine turbine.
      In ordinary passenger cars, a penny on-board computer informs the driver about burned-out lamps in the lamps. In auto repair shops, they connect to the CAN bus connector and take all the necessary information without guessing on coffee grounds.
  15. Vadim Topal Pasha
    Vadim Topal Pasha 13 October 2022 15: 24
    0
    The article is not bad, but "vague doubts torment me" (C) about the maintainability of Soviet tanks by the summer of 1943. Yes, even such that it began to affect the results of operations.
    In addition, at the beginning of the war, the Red Army did not have an intelligent repair and evacuation system. The Germans got it during the Anschluss of Austria. Then (WITHOUT enemy influence) they lost a quarter of the tanks. After that, the tanks began to be designed taking into account the convenience of repair, and the system was created. In the USSR, the system also appeared, but so that by the Kursk Bulge it would become truly working ... "a fresh addition, I don’t believe it without a hundred grams!" (FROM) :)
  16. Alexander_First
    Alexander_First 13 October 2022 20: 35
    0
    The author deserves a plus. Shame on the "dumb marshals" and "effective menagers". They have money for armored limousines for themselves. "For myself as for the front" But for personnel on armored trucks, no.
  17. Eroma
    Eroma 13 October 2022 22: 21
    +2
    For heating, without discharging the battery, an autonomous heater was invented long ago, on diesel fuel. In many cars, especially trucks, this option is installed! good a double roof saves from heating, in the case of a combat vehicle, you just need to throw a cover or a camouflage net so that the sun does not fall on the armor! wink
    To make special armored trucks with a flat bottom, this is special equipment, at a special price bully the budget for such trucks is not enough perhaps No. cabin armor from an explosion of ammunition in the back is unlikely to save belay we need commercial all-terrain vehicles that are equipped with reservations following the example of cash-in-transit vehicles, that's who you need to contact, and not Kamov! yes
    A winch and a walkie-talkie with a glonas that works both as navigation and as a beacon should be included in the configuration, I absolutely agree! A sleeping bag is also a really useful thing, as an option, just a folding back of all seats turns into a solid bed + a scrub shelf if you feel sorry for the sleeping bag!
    Everything for comfort and safety has already been created in the commercial sector, you just need to order the appropriate equipment for the army + purely military improvements such as mounting for weapons and installing walkie-talkies and an army navigation system
  18. Orion72
    Orion72 13 October 2022 23: 19
    0
    Here, too, not everything is so simple, I agree with the defense, there should be a minimum of heavy machine guns. But the bottom, like on an armored personnel carrier, will create many problems for repairs in the field, even if you just close the bridges. The protection will have to be removed, pulled out from under the car, only after that it will be possible to whiten something from the chassis. The main question here is, Why hasn't something been developed during this time that is acceptable for both protection and repair suitability? Probably here the collapse of the USSR and the Serdyukov times still resonate with us.
    1. your1970
      your1970 14 October 2022 12: 59
      0
      Quote: Orion72
      Why hasn't something been developed during this time that is acceptable for both protection and repair suitability? Probably here the collapse of the USSR and the Serdyukov times still resonate with us.

      Because you yourself answered this question
      Quote: Orion72
      The protection will have to be removed, pulled out from under the car, only after that it will be possible to whiten something from the chassis

      Any protection automatically will increase weight and complicate maintainability.
      Here is either a lorry or "you need to drag it to the city to the repair plant"
    2. Munhausen
      16 October 2022 22: 46
      0
      There are no bridges in the armored personnel carrier at all. Fully independent suspension. And there are no leaf or spring springs. Just a glimpse, not an engineering solution. Only the cardan through the entire cabin stretches from the powerhouse.
      The armored personnel carrier itself is overloaded with functionality. He must carry people, protect against various damaging factors, fire from large-caliber guns and still swim. At the same time quietly rides on seven wheels. I personally saw it. They said that at six, too, he is quite capable of himself. And it’s a pleasure to load it on the echelon compared to a truck.
      Remove the functionality to fire and the ability to swim for how many headaches there is.
  19. lelik613
    lelik613 14 October 2022 06: 56
    +1
    Bravo, author! But I think it is necessary to go through foreign military equipment, select what is needed and force analogues with motivation. There is an old button accordion, how Stalin got a good bomber. He said to do one to one like an American one. Or we will criticize, like a fly swatter, an impudent fly.
    1. your1970
      your1970 14 October 2022 13: 01
      0
      Quote: lelik613
      Bravo, author! But I think it is necessary to go through foreign military equipment, select what is needed and force analogues with motivation. There is an old button accordion, how Stalin got a good bomber. He said to do one to one like an American one. Or we will criticize, like a fly swatter, an impudent fly.

      The problem is that the bomber turned out so-so ...
      1. lelik613
        lelik613 15 October 2022 05: 14
        0
        If they were allowed to do something that has no analogues in the world, then they would get a slotted barn flying like crocodiles at the exit low low. How they sawed Tu-2 with a jigsaw
        , in general, a song! They really finished it only by the age of 44. "By the beginning of 1945, there were 279 Tu-2 aircraft at the front" (c) Vika.
        1. Victor Leningradets
          Victor Leningradets 15 October 2022 09: 54
          0
          Here the erroneous decision to curtail the Tu-2 program in 1942 affected. The Tu-2 is an outstanding machine (A.N. Tupolev really wanted to be free). In fact, by 1943, the Tu-2 was supposed to be squeezed out of Pe-2 production. This would significantly increase the effectiveness of our front-line bomber aviation and reduce the loss of pilots. But the mistake of the Supreme did not allow this to be done.
          1. lelik613
            lelik613 15 October 2022 11: 42
            0
            At the age of 42, the eroplan was xxx and the engine too. And Pan Academician loved to push through the hack. And trample on colleagues. "Yes, a smart person cannot but be a rogue." (c). In 42, the country was desperately Yaks, to appease the German bombers.
            1. Victor Leningradets
              Victor Leningradets 15 October 2022 12: 11
              0
              I’m not writing just like that, but from the words of our now deceased head of the personnel department. He fought on Pe-2 and Tu-2. The Tu-2 was already brought to the series in 1942, but only 2 regiments were armed and they decided that since the Pe-2 was mastered and cheaper, then don’t high. And the Germans decided no wow! And only in 1944 did small-scale production begin.
    2. Munhausen
      15 October 2022 03: 46
      0
      Thank you. Before writing, I brushed it and compared it with what I have. I know the story about copying an American strategic bomber. An illustrative story about how our designers were shown that it is possible to create such an aircraft.
  20. stankow
    stankow 14 October 2022 11: 04
    +1
    The article has very sensible remarks!
    ............
  21. Ilgizl
    Ilgizl 14 October 2022 23: 29
    +1
    The author essentially painted everything, only those who make purchasing decisions sit high and far away and they may not even be aware of such "little things" due to the lack of practical experience, this is if you put on rose-colored glasses and think about them well, but how do we ourselves in real life we all understand...
  22. AndreyVV
    AndreyVV 15 October 2022 20: 10
    0
    Questions to the Armored Directorate of the Army. they are obliged
    justify the cost increase
    transport in front of women accountants. By the way, there are generals
    and mothers too. but their sons are not
    will go to the front.
  23. odisey3000
    odisey3000 15 October 2022 20: 50
    0
    This writer amused, especially about the caliber 12,7 hits which helicopters withstand, bullshit, they fall and explode helicopters, when this caliber hits, everything else is from the luck and skill of the pilot. schools, let me remind you, if anyone forgot this Ryazan, Chelyabinsk, Ussuri. Apparently, our strategists from the General Staff do not need motorists, our army moves on rovers and lunar rovers. you can’t call it a disgrace. For some reason, military automotive equipment in our country is not such in practice, it’s probably the designers and generals from the GABTU who don’t prepare automotive equipment for war at all. Why, I can’t even say, they probably don’t fight on it themselves. And all that they show us are single copies. Shoigu should not build temples and hold competitions, but try to revive at least one of the automobile schools. Until all the cadres died and fled and there is a material base, at least to take the territory of the Chelyabinsk Automobile School, which has not yet been plundered and whole, it’s just amazing and there are still personnel there. , armored Urals and Kamaz. Why does our soldier need such a luxury, this will undermine the country's economy.
    1. Munhausen
      16 October 2022 22: 11
      +1
      Quote from: odisey3000
      This writer amused, especially about the 12,7 caliber, the hits of which helicopters withstand, bullshit, they fall and helicopters explode

      At Crocodile, the armored glazing of the cockpit is designed for the arrival of a 30-mm projectile. The lightest piece of glass weighs 90 kg. At the same time, in the tail section, the body can be pierced with a good tourist knife. But these are the consequences of a compromise between the mass of equipment and its armor.
      Pay attention in your fanatical calculations, it was about protecting the places where people sit. This is a cabin and a body with personnel. If the frame is shot through, the fanari will tear off the wheel or fragments, it's okay. Tanks in the same helicopter are designed to hit and filled inside with a special sponge that prevents fuel from escaping. In other words, the designers of the helicopter expected that they would shoot at it and thought about protecting people. Now they even put a MANPADS missile launch detection system on them. We still don't have anything like this on tanks. Exhibitions and screenings on TV do not count.
  24. Eule
    Eule 15 October 2022 21: 16
    +3
    Against high-speed bullets, composite armor made of steel and porcelain stoneware has long been invented. Actually porcelain tiles on the market is a way to take over a factory for the manufacture of tank armor elements in peacetime. Therefore, instead of bulletproof vests, they would make boxes with a sandwich from tiles and iron. The size of the boxes must be such that the fragments of the tile cannot move. The physics is simple - the ceramic "peels" the shell, the iron does not let it scatter, and the bullet actually wears out abrasively.
    How much it will weigh and cost - I do not know. I can’t do experiments, I don’t have AK74 with armor-piercing ones at hand.
    But it will be cheaper than body armor, and more durable, at least in the driver's door, and on the side behind the door.
    Quote: Alexey RA
    welding under argon

    I will share my personal experience. I learned how to solder with hard solder at a young age. How I picked up a TIG torch - and after a half-hour training on scraps, I began to cook vacuum-tight seams on stainless steel. Cooking with argon is easier than with a stick electrode!
    With the electrode you have three movements:
    across the seam
    along the seam
    approach of the holder to the part as the electrode is consumed
    But TIG you only have the first two. No slag, you see the metal. Beauty - the column of the arc turns the metal of the edges into a puddle, you lead the arc and the puddle creeps along the seam. No sparks burning through your pants.
    Another thing is that there is no slag from the coating of the electrode - there is nothing to carry away the scale, the edges must be cleaned to a shine.
    A draft blows off a stream of gas, lowering the quality of welding, so argon is for the workshop.
    About a semi-automatic device - at a price - 5 kg, a coil of simple wire for a semi-automatic device cost 800 rubles in the summer, and five kilos of electrodes - more than a thousand. Despite the fact that in five kilos of electrodes - a fair weight is a coating, plus cinders that are thrown. That is, a semiautomatic device is cheaper than a piece electrode. Yes, with him you can’t climb onto the roof or somewhere else, because of the weight of the balloon. But I remain of the opinion that it is more difficult to weld with an electrode with the same quality of the seam.
    So do not talk about the qualifications of workers.
    My wife, a programmer by profession, welded a hanger with a semi-automatic machine because she became interested. In general, for the first time in my life, I picked up a welding torch. Another thing is that my Irinka studied drawing at the Soviet art school, and her fine motor skills were perfect.
  25. Dinar
    Dinar 15 October 2022 23: 00
    0
    What kind of jack should be carried when breaking through a wheel? And so everything is on point..
    1. Munhausen
      16 October 2022 22: 26
      +1
      Probably about 15 years ago, no less than Michelin demonstrated fiberglass tires at the exhibition, which did not require air pumping at all. On cash-in-transit vehicles, wheels with built-in elements have been used for a long time, allowing them to continue moving with punctured wheels. Only these are foreign cars laughing
      It was also not in vain that he gave an example with an armored personnel carrier. Our designers miraculously made a wonderful chassis. But as is customary in our country, even in football, they did not develop it further. More than once I had to see armored personnel carriers that calmly drove without a wheel. It was torn off by a mine, there was not even meat left from the suspension, go further without any problems. Then we drove for many more days on seven wheels until they fixed it. On flat tires, they crawl well. The promised auto-pumping in case of breaking through has never been seen anywhere in working form.
      Many suitable technologies have been demonstrated and even tested for decades.
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 October 2022 22: 12
        +1
        What did you attach to the armored personnel carrier? It has a very difficult chassis to maintain, there are 20 cardans alone, and not one through the entire body, as you write here.
        There is a much more modern chassis, just for KAMAZ, which you deign to baselessly criticize for lack of flexibility.

        Typhoon-K, please love and favor. A very successful chassis, even with steering on the middle axle. Every whim for your money. The MO can order any product on this basis, even a lightweight truck, even a full-fledged armored car with a 30-mm cannon module on the roof.
        1. Munhausen
          19 October 2022 00: 56
          0
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          What are you clinging to the armored personnel carrier

          I didn’t attach myself to an armored personnel carrier, but took a rather successful 8x8 scheme as an example. The fact that they piled a bunch of cardans on GAZ and made a good idea really unrepairable is our tradition. Any good undertaking must be spoiled and thoroughly spoiled with something. This shows itself in football all the time. I remember the 70s with two GAZ engines. Oh, and the developers threw a fierce muck.

          Typhoon-K, please love and favor

          I won't. Hefty, tall, heavy and just as loud at an exorbitant cost. Just wondering where such production costs come from? It seems that red-haired gray-eyed virgins cast armor steel for it on a full moon in dry calm weather.

          Every whim for your money

          If you delve into all these economic calculations, it turns out to be the case. Our money. Our oil, gas, ore and other gifts of the subsoil, which, according to the constitution, belong to the people. Only on whose whims do the lion's share of them go?
  26. iva12936
    iva12936 17 October 2022 14: 00
    0
    Everything is absolutely on point, those who served in the SA, and probably in the RA, will completely agree. I fully support. Ask a question to customers and developers of technology!
    1. agond
      agond 18 October 2022 18: 55
      0
      The author writes "What would you like to see in the armed forces? A fully armored bonnet-type truck with a mass of 20 tons, a payload of 10 tons and the ability to withstand 12,7 mm caliber bullets and a mine explosion."
      And let's just roughly estimate a certain armored bus (it's easier to count the weight) 7m long, 2.5m wide, 2m high, surface area (parallelepiped all 6 sides are armored the same) = 73m2, if we take a thickness of 20mm, then the weight of the box = 11.5 tons, and we we want to fit into 20 tons of curb weight of the car without cargo and we have another 8.5 tons in stock for the engine and transmission, Armor penetration for medium hard armor, Soviet data: 12,7X99 AP M1: 19 mm / 100 m try to fulfill the condition of those tasks in 20 tons of curb weight. with steel armor and then they will shoot at a similar cargo bus from 12,7X99 AP M1: at a distance of the order of a kilometer and beyond
      1. Munhausen
        19 October 2022 02: 08
        -1
        There was an important remark in the text that armor is not only armor steel grades. The American Bradley M2 infantry fighting vehicle consists almost entirely of aluminum and surpasses all our infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers combined in terms of the level of protection. There is a titan. Our country is a leader in the production of titanium. True, not finished products from it, but only blanks for sale. There are many varieties of ceramic materials. Aluminum oxide is not much inferior in strength to diamond, while it is cheaper and lighter than many armored steel grades. There is an unimaginable amount of composite materials based on ceramics, strong polymer materials. I don’t know who now makes bulletproof vests only from sheets of armored steel. Now there is just not mixed up to reduce weight and at the same time leave reliability.
  27. Sergey Drozdov
    Sergey Drozdov 20 October 2022 11: 48
    0
    We prefer to think not about equipment for the army, but about its social structure.

    It turns out that we do not have enough nobles, a new military class that should become the core of the future society, said political scientist, leader of the Essence of Time movement Sergey Kurginyan on October 17 in the program “Evening with Vladimir Solovyov” on the Rossiya 1 TV channel.

    “We need a military estate ... call it whatever you like, the new nobility. It doesn't matter what the words are. It is important that this estate will understand that "from now on and forever." And ... it will be provided for a lot. ” The military estate in Russia must be provided not only with material payments, but also with much more - land, position in society, state funds.

    Because if we lose, then we will lose, as they say in such cases, not for grandmas, but for life (in what gateway do they say that?). At all. At all! And no one will feel good - neither liberals, nor monarchists, nor communists.

    “The military class in Russia must be provided with land” - but the serfs cannot be handed over to them?

    In tsarist Russia there was such an estate - the Cossacks. For example, - Suvorov considered the Cossack units in war conditions suitable only for pursuing and finishing off the enemy.

    But during the Second World War, in the USSR, there were no estates. The army was workers' and peasants'. But from among the Cossacks, 262 cavalrymen received the stars of the Hero of the Soviet Union, 7 cavalry corps and 17 cavalry divisions - guards ranks.

    Where is this class now? Patrolling Sochi and Krasnodar at public expense? In the Soviet Union, this was done by voluntary people's squads. Free of charge…

    But personally, I think that many people will like Kurginyan's idea.