How ours protect armored vehicles in a special operation: rubble, "visors" and other handicrafts

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How ours protect armored vehicles in a special operation: rubble, "visors" and other handicrafts

What a sin to conceal. There is an opinion among our people that the widespread use of handicraft protection of equipment is an indicator of the technological backwardness of the army of the belligerent. They say that the level of booking cars no longer corresponds to modern threats, which is why they hang sandbags on them, weld steel sheets, gratings, and so on. You don’t have to look far for an example: the same Syrian war clearly showed how the military tried to protect their obsolete Tanks, building entire "armored sheds".

But there is another aspect here as well. And it is simple: the desire to survive. No matter how modern the equipment is, the crews will still try to strengthen its armor with all available means in order to increase both combat effectiveness and their own chances of survival. So it was and so it will always be. And the Russian army, together with allied forces in a special military operation in Ukraine, is no exception.



There will be little text, but more photos.

"Visors" on the towers from the "Javelins"


Self-propelled artillery mount "Msta-S", which became a trophy for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The roof of the car is equipped with a "visor". Its anti-cumulative value is doubtful, but its camouflage value may very well be.

Self-propelled artillery mount "Msta-S", which became a trophy for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The roof of the car is equipped with a "visor". Its anti-cumulative value is doubtful, but its camouflage value may very well be.

In general, of course, "visors" have already become one of the symbols of the special military operation in Ukraine. And, although they were seen on Russian tanks long before February 24, such shielding became widespread already during the hostilities. Moreover, their quality literally varies from quite factory to fierce handicraft in the style of "they tore off the chain-link from the fence and welded it on."

An example of extremely poor-quality manufacturing of the "visor". They did it according to the principle, as they say, "blinded from what was."
An example of extremely poor-quality manufacturing of the "visor". They did it according to the principle, as they say, "blinded from what was."

They put "visors" on virtually everything to which they can be welded. These are, in fact, the tanks themselves, and self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers and even transport vehicles such as MT-LB and others. However, the practical value of this protection has long been in question. Of course, they can save from anti-tank submunitions of cluster shells or mortar shelling, but hardly from the Javelin.

Many T-62Ms also received "visors".
Many T-62Ms also received "visors".

It is known that the penetration of a cumulative projectile even increases when detonated at a distance from the armor. Of course, this distance is in the range of 5–6 charge calibers, after which the armor penetration characteristics begin to drop sharply. However, in order to contain the tandem warhead of an American missile, the distance between the "visor" and the thin roof of the tank's turret must be very large, and this already affects its stability and tendency to "hook" on any obstacles.

Light tracked vehicles are also not without the opportunity to have a second roof. Example: MT-LB.
Light tracked vehicles are also not without the opportunity to have a second roof. Example: MT-LB.

Yes, and there are also operational moments: the inconvenience of loading ammunition, reduced visibility from the tank, limiting the aiming of a heavy machine gun, and so on. But, whatever one may say, there is a benefit from the second roof, as already mentioned above.

Self-propelled artillery installation "Acacia". Here, the screens in the upper hemisphere are already working as a frame for installing a camouflage net, which, given the abundance of enemy UAVs in the sky, is far from unreasonable.
Self-propelled artillery installation "Acacia". Here, the screens in the upper hemisphere are already working as a frame for installing a camouflage net, which, given the abundance of enemy UAVs in the sky, is far from unreasonable.

Experiments with dynamic protection


Tank T-64A of the allied forces. This car, in principle, was not supposed to have dynamic protection according to the state, but it was definitely required. Yes, it was made handicraft and without corresponding structures on the tower, but at least that's how it was.
Tank T-64A of the allied forces. This car, in principle, was not supposed to have dynamic protection according to the state, but it was definitely required. Yes, it was made handicraft and without corresponding structures on the tower, but at least that's how it was.

It just so happened that dynamic protection (DZ) is revered in our country as the most effective means against cumulative ammunition - well, a pure panacea in its natural form. It sometimes comes to the point that it is handicraft installed on light equipment such as infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers. This should not be done, because not only will it not protect against any anti-tank grenade, but it will also break through thin armor with its own explosion. And the gaps there are formed really huge: a width of 18-20 centimeters and above. So, in addition to the cumulative jet, the crew and troops will also receive a hail of fragments from the armored hull.

"Seventytwo" with a palisade of dynamic protection. Handicraftsmen tried to block the weakened zones of the tower with Contact blocks. Looks pretty monster. On the "wings" (above the guide wheels), "Contact" blocks are also visible. A similar solution is already being practiced in the serial version on the T-90M, since this is a vulnerable area both for the undercarriage and for the side of the tank hull.
"Seventytwo" with a palisade of dynamic protection. Handicraftsmen tried to block the weakened zones of the tower with Contact blocks. Looks pretty monster. On the "wings" (above the guide wheels), "Contact" blocks are also visible. A similar solution is already being practiced in the serial version on the T-90M, since this is a vulnerable area, both for the chassis and for the side of the tank hull.

As for the installation of additional dynamic protection on tanks, this is categorically welcomed. Let's be honest, the standard sets of reactive armor on our heavy combat vehicles do not cover all projections, so there are plenty of bare spots. So the tanks, non-standard hung with the treasured "bricks" - it's understandable. In addition, in the ranks of the allied forces there are pieces of equipment that are not supposed to have dynamic protection according to the state, but are very necessary.

Another quite decent attempt to block the weakened zones of the tower with dynamic protection blocks.
Another quite decent attempt to block the weakened zones of the tower with dynamic protection blocks.

T-80BVK, which, apparently, came as a trophy of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Turret blocks from Kontakt-5 were added to the regular "Contact" on the tank.
T-80BVK, which, apparently, came as a trophy of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Turret blocks from Kontakt-5 were added to the regular "Contact" on the tank.

Screens


T-72B3 model 2016. Here, as they say, "combo". Shielding bags, "burdocks" made of rubber on the DZ tower blocks and "Contact" hanging on them.
T-72B3 model 2016. Here, as they say, "combo". Shielding bags, "burdocks" made of rubber on the DZ tower blocks and "Contact" hanging on them.

Shielding the armor of tanks using artisanal methods is an attribute of almost all wars where these same tanks were used and are being used. Sandbags, gratings, steel sheets, and even stones in metal baskets are far from a complete list of artisanal modifications. However, to date, the characteristics of the armor penetration of anti-tank weapons are such that no reasonable (if you do not take into account the “armored sheds” from Syria) shielding, with the exception of properly made grates against PG-7 grenades, will not really add protection. So all these "burdocks" on the towers, stones and other things against powerful projectiles are rather moral support.

T-72B3 with rubble in baskets and bags in the frontal projection.
T-72B3 with rubble in baskets and bags in the frontal projection.

T-72B with additional blocks of dynamic protection "Contact". Visible "burdocks" (screens) of rubber sheets on the tower blocks "Contact-5".
T-72B with additional blocks of dynamic protection "Contact". Visible "burdocks" (screens) of rubber sheets on the tower blocks "Contact-5".

Here, the "burdocks" on the tower blocks of dynamic protection, apparently, are already metal.
Here, the "burdocks" on the tower blocks of dynamic protection, apparently, are already metal.

But light equipment in the face of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers will obviously not interfere with steel screens. No, we are not talking about anti-cumulative resistance. Everything is much simpler: to increase the bullet resistance of their armor and provide protection from machine guns in side projections, including large-caliber ones. For the BMP-3, for example, things are easier with this, but our armored personnel carriers with such a rifle weapons "friends" are very reluctant.

APC with additional steel plates. Of course, this will not save you from armor-piercing bullets of 12.7-mm and 14.5-mm caliber, but it can provide protection from 7.62-mm "armor-piercing" bullets.
APC with additional steel plates. Of course, this will not save you from armor-piercing bullets of 12,7 mm and 14,5 mm caliber, but it can provide protection from 7,62-mm "armor-piercing" bullets.

BMP-2 with tracks on the hull and turret
BMP-2 with caterpillar tracks on the hull and turret.

Conclusions


Of course, the options for handicraft modernization of equipment presented in this material are the minimum of this motley company. However, even such a meager list provides food for thought.

Firstly, handicraft is really not going anywhere under any circumstances. Rest assured, tankers will massively transfer to the T-14 "Armata" - and they will hang it with something. This is not some kind of "mania" and stupidity, but the result of practice on the battlefield. Therefore, the military, working with equipment, must have a thorough knowledge of the operation of one or another type of shells in order to more effectively organize protection from improvised means (the phrase, of course, is terrible, but these are the realities), so as not to have a false sense of security, sitting behind self-made dilapidated screens rubber or metal.

Secondly, it is time for our Ministry of Defense to finally pay attention to the current situation. All these field refinements of technology are not born in a vacuum.
87 comments
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  1. +15
    5 October 2022 05: 05
    In the war, the soldier's ingenuity has always been! If such a home-made product helped somewhere, then it is quickly adopted in other parts, and this is correct, but until something begins to be produced industrially, months or even years will pass!
    1. +6
      5 October 2022 07: 28
      Well, how not to remember Syria, here is a variant of composite armor. To break through a stone with a cumulative jet, the temperature may not be enough.


      1. +3
        5 October 2022 10: 31
        The cumulative charge breaks through and its temperature is not important.
        1. 0
          7 October 2022 01: 56
          there and with "pierces" and with "temperature" - not rich. PASSIVE solutions for complex ceramic-metal-composite armor have been around for a long time. But changing technology is expensive.
          1. 0
            26 February 2023 18: 40
            ... And it was necessary to change yesterday .....
    2. +22
      5 October 2022 10: 33
      A soldier should fight, and not be smart in the mornings, evenings and nights. This should be done by engineers. All such types of protection have been known since it. Even in Afghanistan they installed anti-missile shields. penetrations from above, from the sides, behind. Yes, so that during testing it can be replaced. This is engineering work. They studied for this. if they don’t want to, then like saboteurs led by the general director to Kolyma. Let them learn in the cold if they don’t have a mind.
      1. +12
        7 October 2022 13: 08
        As an engineer (albeit not a military one), I will answer - anything can be developed by ours. From a nuclear slingshot to a supersonic Zaporozhets. We have talents.
        Engineers fulfill ORDERS. But WHAT and HOW to order are decided by the comrades from the GABTU, in close cooperation with the planning and economic sector. And even if the generals finally "push through" some necessary decision, it is far from certain that economists will not kill it with the phrase "no budget."

        Eventually "There is no money, but you hold on. Here's a barrel for you, make a visor out of it"

        By the way, the Plush has been a lot of fun lately, a liberal with an iPhone mimicked a hawk with a nuclear baton.
      2. +1
        10 October 2022 14: 11
        The hatches on armored vehicles are often open, it is not clear why, and the visor protects against dropping a grenade into the hatch from a copter.
  2. +24
    5 October 2022 05: 49
    Yes, if you want to live, you won’t get so upset. request
    I would like to note the excellent work of the author in the selection and analysis of examples.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -1
      10 October 2022 14: 19
      The author did not mention such protection as active protection, apparently because this is a type of high-tech protection for countries where they do not save on science and technology.

      1. -1
        10 October 2022 14: 26
        Force field, right? Where do people like you come from...
        1. +5
          10 October 2022 16: 21
          Force field, right?

          This is not a field, but a diagram of a conditional radius on which incoming ATGMs are destroyed with the help of KAZ, this is not for you to hang sandbags, education is needed here.
          There is a KAZ on the abrams.




          Where do people like you come from

          Since it’s easier for you to work with a shovel and pour sandbags, you think that there are no other ways. You made a mistake here is a visual video of what active protection is. With the help of high technology, an infantry fighting vehicle is capable of repelling a dozen shots. to achieve this with your method, you will have to hang so many bags of pitch that the BMP will not be able to drive and will become a stationary pillbox

          Rheinmetall – Active protection technology

          1. +3
            10 October 2022 18: 27
            The author is aware of the domestic KAZ, but for you, such an intellectual - is it not clear that an article about a specific thing is coming?
            I repeat the question - where do people like you climb from?
          2. 0
            27 December 2022 15: 17
            I present this heavy Abrams hung with radars, somewhere in Ukraine in the winter in the fields or urban battles :))
  3. 0
    5 October 2022 05: 53
    Until now, the dispute has not subsided - did our tankers hang their tanks with beds during the assault on Berlin?
    1. +18
      5 October 2022 10: 33
      Necessarily. And then they were raped by millions of German women.
      Otherwise, no way.
    2. +4
      5 October 2022 16: 22
      Until now, the dispute has not subsided - did our tankers hang their tanks with beds during the assault on Berlin?

      Not exactly a bed, but still
      1. +5
        5 October 2022 17: 17
        Americans "perverted" more.


      2. +4
        5 October 2022 18: 19
        This is a typical mesh screen, and the tank itself is from the 11th Tank Corps, in which they were used. Similar screens were also used in units of the 5th shock army, for example, in the 220th brigade and the 11th guards brigade.
      3. 0
        6 October 2022 19: 16
        This is not a bed, but a rather high-quality product of the repair workshop of tank troops. There is information that about 240 tanks were modernized in this way
  4. +14
    5 October 2022 06: 05

    What a sin to conceal. There is an opinion among our people that the widespread use of handicraft protection of equipment is an indicator of the technological backwardness of the army of the belligerent.


    That's what he's talking about, and something else.
    Together with civilian means of communication, surveillance and reconnaissance, copters, ammunition.
  5. +18
    5 October 2022 06: 09
    Our industry is doing well only for the parade and for foreign orders. And his and so will do. The price under the state contract for the Moscow Region tends to space ... But for the Moscow Region all this is expensive, and they don’t shoot in the offices .... You can look at foreign equipment with bitterness. Protection is everywhere where you can stick. And not for the parade, but in the troops
  6. +11
    5 October 2022 06: 44
    IMHO. A set of dynamic protection + icon (photo 7) is the most effective. Hang a rosary on the trunk and that's it.
  7. +3
    5 October 2022 06: 54
    "The need for inventions is cunning." A good saying, but it's a shame that it can be applied to security in the army.
  8. +2
    5 October 2022 07: 36
    Tank T-64A of the allied forces. This car, in principle, was not supposed to have dynamic protection according to the state, but it was definitely required. Yes, it was made handicraft and without corresponding structures on the tower, but at least that's how it was.
    The icon on the armor, the same element of dynamic protection? Or is it not an icon?
    1. +16
      5 October 2022 09: 29
      Quote: parusnik
      Icon on the armor

      There are no unbelievers in the war!
      I see only the sky from the funnel,
      I will be given a "funeral"
      Dear mother - mourning greetings.
      I would have to shout - my mouth is full of sand!
      Hot air that stinks of sulfur
      Obscures the smoke crimson gray
      Clouds in the endless sky.
      I just want to move my hand
      To cross for the first time
      And mentally say goodbye to everyone,
      Fly away from here.
      But they won't take me to heaven
      Apparently, he didn't do something important.
      Here lies the wounded body:
      Thoughts are there, but arms and legs are here.
      Naughty fingers folded,
      As my grandmother used to teach
      I will ask: "Unknown Force,
      Get out of here if you're alive..."
      And I didn't have time to think:
      Angel in a skirt, fair, golden-haired,
      Raking the ground from a landmine,
      He sang in a sweet voice:
      "I'll help you, soldier!
      We are with you, my friend, we will still dance,
      On Victory Day we will raise the cup,
      Do not surrender to death and the enemy!
      There are no unbelievers in war.
      Under fire nurse Katya,
      Like the Saving Mother of God
      Brought me out into the world.
      Vladimir FILIMONOV
      1. +5
        5 October 2022 12: 01
        Strong lines, mentally immersed in the atmosphere
    2. +2
      5 October 2022 16: 19
      Quote: parusnik
      The icon on the armor, the same element of dynamic protection?

      the icon is much more effective than nets with rubble.
      she has a chance to help.
      1. 0
        5 October 2022 16: 37
        Quote: Maki Avellevich
        Quote: parusnik
        The icon on the armor, the same element of dynamic protection?

        the icon is much more effective than nets with rubble.
        she has a chance to help.

        A soldier in battle can only rely on himself and his comrade-in-arms ..... and mentally ask God .. God, Save and save ..... If it helps, let the Icon fight, if the Mother of God gives strength to the soldier in battle , hope to survive ... , let . But it is worth remembering, trust in God, but do not make a mistake yourself. God loves the smart and the brave hi
        1. 0
          13 October 2022 23: 00
          Just in case, I’ll pay attention if one of the readers misunderstood the photo that the icon should be taken into the tank, and not attached to the armor.
      2. -1
        13 October 2022 18: 32
        Icon plus crushed stone, sand, grids, contact, afghanite and so on. That's better.
    3. 0
      8 October 2022 12: 18
      And without what structures is it made? According to the photo, it seems that the blocks are screwed onto the bolts, not welded. So the bonks are worth it.
  9. +6
    5 October 2022 08: 58
    questions to our industry and the Moscow Region, more than this publication can "digest" (VO)
    there are exhibitions - where everything is fine, funds are spent on their holding
    1. +1
      7 October 2022 09: 36
      If there are no exhibitions, how will foreign buyers, and even their MO, generally know about new products? How can you buy if you don't know about them? In general, exhibitions do not cost that much and are held with the money of the manufacturer, and not the MO.
  10. +3
    5 October 2022 08: 59
    visors and all sorts of gratings not only protect against the jet, but increase the distance of the ammunition detonation and, as a result, less ingress of the explosion products inside, through the hole pierced by the cumulative jet, this is especially typical for MTLB, if the visor had not been blown by an explosion, it would have simply broken through the roof, there is no need for a jet, the roof 7 mm if I'm not mistaken or 5, in my opinion, it would be best to protect the tanks simply by removing all the additional ammunition and leaving it only in the autoloader, if you cover the autoloader on top of the contour with, say, 100 mm of armor, then this is quite capable of protecting even from Javelin, which will need to break through the roof of the tank, then the air in the fighting compartment and then the armor plate of 100 mm, it is likely that it will not master such protection, especially at angles other than 90 degrees ...
  11. +8
    5 October 2022 09: 19
    Dear author, rubble perfectly holds RPG grenades, and really helps.
    1. +2
      5 October 2022 12: 04
      I also thought about crushed stone, I would recommend trying crushed granite, it has a higher hardness, in theory it should disperse the jet better.
      1. +3
        5 October 2022 12: 30
        yes, the technicians have already crumbled immeasurably - it is necessary to provide repair units with gas cutters with cylinders - they will cut pieces of armored steel from broken cars where necessary and how much
        1. 0
          7 October 2022 09: 10
          The main thing then is this monster, in order to move the engine power, the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe tracks was enough so that it would not drown in the ground. laughing Well, or put two gas turbine engines and caterpillars from swamps, but this will already turn out to be something very obscene) wassat
          1. -1
            7 October 2022 13: 15
            I propose a case.
            there are probably not enough cutters in repair units.
            if competently real armor is hung on the T-62 or BMP-2, there will be nothing critical for equipment in the short term from overload, and there are such vehicles in hardware with a non-upgraded chassis and engine.
            1-1.5 tons on top of an infantry fighting vehicle or a tank will not hurt anything.
            using unprotected machines is stupid.
            .
            BMP completely strengthen the sides with removable (sticking into the grooves from above) square welds (pieces of me 10-15mm) from heavy machine guns and fragments.
            .
            the tank can be reinforced all around, and even at least the frontal projection - the frontal armor of the tower, even over the "Brezhnev's eyebrows" (if any!) + counterweights at the back and sides.
            .
            all this needs to be put on stream, and very quickly.
            factories will not do this - no one will let them do it.
            1. 0
              7 October 2022 13: 55
              The cumulative jet will sneeze deeply at this. To slow it down, sheets must be hung at a distance, or materials that break the stream should be used. I suggest for review: https://scask.ru/n_book_gidro.php?id=31
              1. 0
                7 October 2022 18: 08
                The cumulative jet will all sneeze deeply

                where did I write about the cumulative ??!!
                .
                and even if you take your favorite cumulative - the latest head-on attack will not penetrate the old "modern" tank, and if you make a pie from handicraft with rubber in the center and move the jet, then there will be a chance against tandem cumulative shots. but this is already a more advanced story - in addition to armor (which is! and can be formed on its own in repair units), rubber is needed.
                .
                chance - he is not a pay, not an advance. look out the window - the 21st century is the third decade in the yard. the Internet is full of videos where nlavs and javelins smear fly past and ricochet. these are naked statistics and facts, not your theory, although no one disputes it
                As we shall now see, these facts are sufficient to construct approximate calculation formulas theories of shaped charges.

                if the jet and armor densities are the same, then the penetration depth is equal to the length of the part of the jet consumed for this penetration.
                1. 0
                  7 October 2022 18: 48
                  here, a hundred times already sucked from all sides, even here in the VO, the Iraqi enigma is a partial and complete strengthening FROM ALL sides.
                  they also managed to put a conder in the back niche

                  1. 0
                    7 October 2022 18: 53
                    here is another sketch for reflection on the meaning of life
                    in the absence of rubber, the sleeves can be poured with concrete, and covered with chopped armored steel, the blocks can be spring-loaded.
                    all this can be said "at hand" - something from which you can make amplification


  12. 0
    5 October 2022 09: 27
    For bench modellers (who are fans of gluing models of land vehicles) expanse - so many interesting solutions - so many ideas! The history of "Vremen SVO" on the table in 1:42 scale

    Well, for real engineers - a topic for research
    1. 0
      8 October 2022 12: 29
      Only not at 1:42, but 1:35 or 1:48. I am now sawing a Syrian T-55 in the 48th.
      1. 0
        8 October 2022 14: 31
        Truth? Post a photo here when you're done! Really curious!
        1. +1
          8 October 2022 21: 06
          There's work for a year. The whole chicken coop has to be cut and soldered from brass hand-to-hand.
          1. 0
            8 October 2022 22: 09
            you can also weave a mesh of copper (baked) wire
            1. +1
              8 October 2022 23: 48
              No, there is not a mesh fence, a full-fledged slat armor
  13. 0
    5 October 2022 09: 41
    The need for inventions is cunning, if more technologically advanced means are not supplied
  14. 0
    5 October 2022 10: 10
    They put "visors" on virtually everything to which they can be welded. ... However, the practical value of this defense has long been questioned. Of course, they can save from anti-tank submunitions of cluster shells or mortar shelling, but hardly from the Javelin.

    Back in the last century, when assessing damage to aircraft, a logical error was noticed.
    The damage to the surviving aircraft was assessed, and armor reinforcements were planned in these places.
    In fact, the conclusions should have been the opposite - a plane hitting these places was able to survive, to return home from the flight.
    From this point of view, the assessment of artisanal protection cannot be neglected. Sometimes practice brings such fruits that theory never dreamed of.
    After all, the conditions for testing weapons cannot provide for all the nuances.
    They talk about the penetration of the Javelins - but it is based on the fact that he hits from above, flying past the roof, into its conditional geometric center.
    At what height from the silhouette of the target does it fly? It may turn out that a primitive visor protects not so much with its plane as with its edge, when flying over a tank, or it shifts the estimate of the geometric center of the vehicle.
    1. +2
      5 October 2022 11: 02
      They talk about the penetration of the Javelins - but it is based on the fact that he hits from above, flying past the roof, into its conditional geometric center

      no, you are confusing it with other complexes, in particular, NLAW.

      Roughly describing, the javelin and the nlav have two firing modes - direct and from above.
      .
      .rough, direct nlav - it's like our simplest shot from an RPG flies aboard
      .rough, straight javelin - it's like our tandem shot from an RPG (funnel + funnel) flies aboard
      .rough top javelin - this is our tandem shot from an RPG that flies into the roof at 45 degrees from a height of about 50-150 meters (makes a high "slide" - depending on the distance to the target)
      .rough, top nlav - this is our simple shot from an RPG flies over the roof at a height of 1 meter (with accurate hand-to-hand aiming) and hits vertically downwards (the funnel inside the rocket is directed downwards). actuation of undermining - from a magnetic sensor
      1. +2
        5 October 2022 11: 35
        Yes, I confused these ATGMs - I agree that a visor will not save from a 45-degree falling angle, as well as from direct shots.
        Well, yes, visors are not made for them.
        As for the NLAV in the "top" mode, then a visor at a meter height can just save, stupidly meeting the bow with an edge.
        Even if it passes a little higher, then the magnetic sensor will have to work abnormally, due to the much greater proximity of the metal of the visor to it.
        I hope the specialists carefully study the results of such creativity on the ground.
        Here's to more operational feedback to establish.
    2. 0
      7 October 2022 09: 44
      Correctly. The visor also has a "deforming (contour) camouflage" effect.
  15. +3
    5 October 2022 10: 29
    Additional protection is definitely needed. Shame on our officials who did not attend to this issue. Itching to put these bastards against the wall. They would have made a set of hinged armor for equipment a long time ago.
    And the soldiers are great! They book everything they can. In Chechnya, we had an armored personnel carrier standing in front of a chain-link fence. The militants crept up and fired from an RPG, but the grenade, having passed through the grid, exploded before reaching the armored personnel carrier.
    Therefore, it is not known what will save you in battle, but you must use all the possibilities.
    All transport vehicles must be booked so that, at a minimum, underbarrel grenade launcher shelling does not damage cooling radiators and gas tanks.
    1. +2
      5 October 2022 11: 10
      In Chechnya, we had an armored personnel carrier standing in front of a chain-link fence. The militants crept up and fired from an RPG, but the grenade, having passed through the grid, exploded before reaching the armored personnel carrier.

      offset good
  16. +1
    5 October 2022 11: 12
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Yes, if you want to live, you won’t get so upset. request
    I would like to note the excellent work of the author in the selection and analysis of examples.


    exactly
  17. +4
    5 October 2022 12: 19
    Even if the design is self-made and does not really correspond to the usual patterns, its mere presence on an armored vehicle raises the morale of the crew. Which is not enough.
  18. +6
    5 October 2022 15: 45
    The presence of such homemade armor indicates one important feature - infantry does not go with tanks.
    The thing is - protection in the form of puppies or stone chips, of course, enhances armor from ammunition. But when hit, it generates a large number of fragments that are dangerous for infantry. And since they continue to put up such protection, it means that they do not see the threat. And they can not see him only in one case - the infantry has not been walking next to the tanks for a long time.

    Now the infantry is moving at a distance under the cover of the BMP armor (and, fortunately, there are still enough fragments of it). This means that the thesis "infantry may suffer" is no longer so relevant. Then the question is - Maybe now there is a sense in KAZ? Since, as we can see, the infantry no longer crawls behind the tanks, but keeps at a distance under the cover of the armor of the armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle, then the KAZ for tanks does not pose a threat to the tanks.

    Although the concrete crumb is able to protect the tank, it makes it incredibly heavy. And this is a decrease in mobility on the battlefield (And mobility is just as important as armor). And besides, tanks with such a load lose their motor resources faster.

    Although something came to mind. And no one has developed additional protection for tanks in the form of blocks of solid but crumbling material? So that when a projectile hits, it immediately breaks into dust, but thereby extinguishing part of the impact force. Like ceramic plates in bulletproof vests. The plate is destroyed, but thereby takes some of the energy onto itself, and the remaining energy and fragments of ceramics are stopped by Kevlar.
  19. +1
    5 October 2022 18: 10
    Quote from buv59
    Until now, the dispute has not subsided - did our tankers hang their tanks with beds during the assault on Berlin?

    No need to invent. There can be no dispute, since not very smart people write about beds on tanks, who retell other people's stories. Can you provide at least one photo from Berlin with a bed net on a tank? Standard mesh screens were installed on our tanks, which were made by the servicemen of tank units.
    1. +1
      6 October 2022 19: 19
      Read more carefully. I'm not going to represent anything, because. I'm just a supporter of the fact that the repair shops installed the nets quite professionally, for about 240 tanks. Photo above
  20. +5
    5 October 2022 18: 39
    You can defend with anything, but no one has canceled luck. Unfortunately, this is now the best defense
    1. 0
      5 October 2022 21: 43
      Yeah, lucky that the engine covered mech-water! Guys are heroes and daredevils!!
    2. 0
      6 October 2022 20: 28
      Quote from Lutens.
      You can defend with anything, but no one has canceled luck. Unfortunately, this is now the best defense

      Yes, it can be seen that the strike was at an angle from above through a padded infantry fighting vehicle, either a helicopter or a javelin.
      1. +1
        7 October 2022 21: 04
        The one who posted the video added to the description that it was a javelin, but judging by his answers in the comments, he himself is not exactly sure. .It looks like Denchik is really lucky - they dodged.
    3. 0
      7 October 2022 09: 54
      Where did it happen? And how did it end?
      1. +2
        7 October 2022 20: 52
        Posted 2 days ago. All I know is from the description under the video: In the course of performing the assigned tasks, an infantry fighting vehicle was hit, the crew survived and requested evacuation from the battlefield, an officer of the 1st battalion of the 4th brigade of the LPR with the call sign "Denchik" got into car and went after the fighters, during the evacuation, a javelin flew into the exhaust system, it did not stop either the men or the infantry fighting vehicles. I have not come across any more information.
        1. 0
          8 October 2022 09: 26
          And that's a lot, thanks! Guys are heroes!!
  21. +1
    6 October 2022 09: 35
    Boxes with crushed stone were hung on the sides of the armor back in Afghanistan. And it did save me sometimes. It's not eradicated. "Shaman", "shaman" and will "shaman". A spare life is not attached to a person.
  22. +4
    6 October 2022 09: 37
    The installation of "braziers" above the tower has long been and reasonably criticized in VO as useless from "javelins". However, the article mentions another use - as a frame for camouflage nets. And I will also add protection against grenades thrown into the hatch from drones, which I have repeatedly seen on video. I don’t know how relevant this risk is, but against a grenade and a chain-link will help, I think.
  23. +2
    7 October 2022 02: 11
    The more protection on a person or on a tank, the higher the likelihood that it will work! A belt buckle saved him from a fragment, a flask in his breast pocket protected the heart of 100500 REAL stories.

    What's worse than a tank? The enemy knows your vulnerable spots. And you yourself know. Put a sandbag in there or weld on a track holder - not 100% - but it might help.

    In theory, today there should be a helicopter-type drone above the "box" - to fumble around and UP (!), And shoot back with something when attacking.
  24. +2
    7 October 2022 17: 41
    The Ministry of Defense will certainly pay attention! Why the hell is the money going to the left instead of going to generals and interested parties.
  25. 0
    7 October 2022 22: 43
    I will venture to condemn and anger readers who understand armored vehicles and for the purposes of a special military operation
    But I will try to appeal to logic
    So, the troops are forced to increase the security of armored vehicles?
    In professional terms, blinding, right?
    What is the reason for this?
    Logic says that the personnel were convinced by experience that armor protection does not protect against enemy fire
    Is that what logic tells us to think? So?
    We think further

    Where did armor protection come from? Although the question is strange, but, obviously, the presence of body armor is not accidental - it was designed by engineers and designers.
    Why did they design it? It’s also a strange question, but, obviously, customers ordered it that way. But the customers were the military, among whom there are engineers, as among the designers - the military.
    It turns out that the military ordered and then accepted from the designers, and the designers designed and made armor protection, which is insufficient.
    And it turns out that not only the designers designed armor protection, which is not protection, no. It turns out that the military ORDERED and ACCEPTED such protection.
    That is. and the designers and the military were jerks? Wrong in determining what kind of protection is needed? Were traitors who specifically identified insufficient protection?
    Let's stop.
    That's where "logic" takes us. The logic that goes from supposedly "effect" to supposedly "cause". Since the troops are blinding armored vehicles, it means that the armor protection is insufficient. You can’t argue, they say - the troops revealed, moreover, in battle, and in a real battle ...

    And now I dare to provoke anger. And I will say that this is not logic and not even "logic". THAT'S BULLSHIT. Blinding by troops indicates some kind of nonsense. Now I'll show you which one.

    Even taking into account the fact that anti-tank weapons have improved greatly since the 1960s, the military ordered, and the designers (also military, by the way) designed equipment that was protected ENOUGH, both against modern and against promising anti-tank weapons, ensuring the survival and use of equipment when using certain tactical methods and when using certain operational methods of using troops and formations. I will also say that modern PTO tools are very expensive, very difficult to master and in real use. And because of this, they are not always present where armored vehicles are advancing.

    Do you understand?
    It's not about "security". The point is in tactics, in what TACTICAL ways certain OPERATIONAL goals are achieved. If the armor protection of the equipment is insufficient, it means that the wrong tactics were chosen or, what is worse, an erroneous operational decision. Military art is the ability to achieve the necessary operational goals with tactics that correspond to the conditions and properties of weapons (equipment).
    And if the personnel, instead of using technology, begins to improve it, then the tactics are such that the equipment is mediocrely dying along with the personnel. Tactics are the prerogative of command.
    There is no and cannot be equipment that is sufficiently protected for ANY tactics, especially for the most mediocre "tactics" - the tactics of chewing through defenses at the battalion level to a depth of 3000 meters. For such tactics, not tanks are needed, but mobile pillboxes, but rather a mobile system of field fortifications right away - I don’t know what else the “generals” will come up with who have never PLANNED to command something larger than a battalion, moreover, in the barracks.

    The command exists in order to develop and use such tactics, which are based on the REGULAR properties of SERIAL weapons, and rather well-worn ones, there is no other in the war.
    And if the armor protection is insufficient, it is not necessary to change the armor, and not the tactics, but the bearers of brains that create vicious tactics. The suicide tactics of fighters and units subordinate to these carriers ...

    What is armored vehicles? Armored vehicles are the main IMPACT force of the ground forces, HIGHLY MOBILE troops ... designed to carry out DEEP breakthroughs and DEVELOP operational success.
    This is the CHARTER, which is ignored today.

    It is necessary not to book armor, but to remember that violation of the charter is punishable by ... What.
    Sorry, a lot of letters. I hope that the personnel will survive with such non-statutory commanders
    And there will be victory.
    1. 0
      9 October 2022 14: 57
      The tank manufacturer should start producing sets of removable visors for the turret, the design is similar to a table with four racks and a sheet of steel 2x2m with a thickness of about 50mm and a weight of 1.5t, this is not so much for a tank
    2. 0
      10 October 2022 09: 42
      We started for health, about tactics, I already shed a tear and plused, but ended up somehow in the wrong place ... What does the charter have to do with it? Tactics and strategy are one thing, regulations are another.

      It's one thing to organize "isolation of the theater of military operations", this is a strategy, it's another thing to let an armored train at the beginning of the NMD break through to Kyiv and land there is a tactic.
      1. 0
        10 October 2022 13: 30
        good afternoon
        I politely tried to express a simple thought:
        The tactics of conducting the operation, which is VISIBLE to me, are fundamentally wrong
        Moreover, for a military man - it is erroneous IN ADVANCE, this is not a "discovery", but an obvious thing.
        The fact that personnel are forced to turn armored vehicles, primarily MBTs (main battle tanks) into breakthrough tanks, or rather, into mobile pillboxes, is an indicator that the command is fundamentally wrong, not only "manages" the troops, but also organizes the whole operation at all its levels.
        And in order to show that what I said is based not on little-known theories or accessible only to super-smart super-generals, but on basic, known AXIOMS, I drew the attention of readers to the Charter, which every ordinary soldier, and not just the commander, must know by heart, general or officer
        That is why it is so difficult after "health" to perceive a simple "outcome" - the behavior of the command does not lead to Victory.
        Well, how else to say? Banned for "unenthusiastic way of thinking" (A. and B. Strugatsky, It's hard to be a god)
        1. 0
          11 October 2022 11: 49
          Are you a military officer?

          The text of your comment is too short and in the opinion of the site administration does not carry useful information.
          1. 0
            12 October 2022 00: 34
            Who I am doesn't matter.
            I am convinced that if I am a military officer, then this will not make those who disagree with me burst into tears from tenderness and change their views, confessing their love and respect to me, and also "plus" :)
            The ability to use knowledge does not depend on the ability to APPLY knowledge in practice, although the lack of practice makes it very difficult to understand what is important and what is not.
            But I am convinced that you will not argue that a legless, one-eyed, deaf-mute sitting on the podium, looking at the football field through binoculars, will see a violation of the rules and understand whether the teams are acting correctly, because he knows the rules of the game and SEES. The fact that he cannot enter the field and take a corner does not mean that he is mistaken in applying his - of course, "theoretical" and "non-combat" "non-officer" knowledge - he is not mistaken.
            Who am I? I am only 106147 1997
            1. 0
              12 October 2022 11: 34
              Who I am doesn't matter.
              I am convinced that if I am a military officer, then this will not make those who disagree with me burst into tears from tenderness and change their views, confessing their love and respect to me, and also "plus" :)

              The value is huge. This is the difference between couch and field opinion.
              Everything else, depending on the answer, is either very important or not important at all.
              1. 0
                12 October 2022 21: 21
                Then don't listen to me
                Believe that invulnerable tanks are needed and that without them everything is over
                And most importantly, believe the combat officers who do not agree to fight - until they are given invincible all-piercing, always hitting self-reconnaissance tanks with IDDQD ammunition.
                Sorry for making you waste your time on my article
                And also ask the combat officers about the numbers I indicated
                1. 0
                  13 October 2022 10: 02
                  Let's do it without "oyvse", it sounds funny from the lips of a man (I suppose?). Especially an officer (well, in your immodest.)

                  PS
                  Sorry for making you waste your time on my article

                  Um ...
                  Author:
                  Edward Perov
                  Photos used:
                  otvaga2004.mybb.ru

                  on Your article? Is there something I don't know?
  26. -1
    13 October 2022 17: 33
    Or maybe everything is much simpler? And homemade products appear only during prolonged hostilities? That is, do the participants in the hostilities have experience and time for improvement? Maybe it's worth looking at photos of armored vehicles from different countries, but long in duration
  27. -3
    14 October 2022 21: 58
    It is time for our Ministry of Defense to finally pay attention to the current situation. All these field refinements of technology are not born from scratch.

    Yes, this has been around for a long time. And thousands of ways to improve the protection of our armored vehicles have been developed. Every year they are shown at the "Army".
    But MO stubbornly ignores.
  28. 0
    24 October 2022 19: 25
    UAV visors. They drop grenades right into the hatch.
    And attempts to strengthen the armor show that it no longer protects.
    Crews want to live.....
  29. +1
    1 January 2023 02: 32
    In war, the crew always tries to do something for their protection to the best of their understanding. They just defend themselves from the Javelins by dragging an improvised trailer with a fire behind them (3-4) m from the stern of the tank. Javelin takes it for an engine and explodes with an undershoot of (1,5-2) m from the fire (where the tower should be, according to the understanding of his program). My good friends in uniform told me about this method. Visors on armored vehicles are more likely from various kinds of mines, which are poured over our armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from copters and mortars. But generally speaking, the best defense in a war is a properly organized battle, when such enemy means are suppressed before the armored vehicles enter the active zone of destruction. With this factor, the Russian army had big problems. But hitting a poorly protected crew of anti-tank weapons like Stugna, Javelin, etc. is much easier than a tank.
  30. 0
    1 January 2023 02: 44
    The best defense is a thermonuclear disarming strike against those who supply weapons that kill our guys. What is the use of these fabulously expensive Sarmatians, Poseidons, Vanguards, etc., which, in fact, no one is afraid of.