Military Review

"If at least one Turkish soldier ..."

327
Was this conversation between Vladimir Putin and the Turkish Prime Minister R. T. Erdogan, or was he invented by creative personalities from the media? .. After all, in the 21st century, the press almost caught up with fiction, the consumption of which in the world is gradually falling.

IA "REGNUM" With reference to the Turkish newspaper Aydinlik, it reproduces the recent telephone dialogue between Putin and Erdogan, as if it were transcribed:
- If at least one Turkish soldier crosses the Syrian border, Russia will react very hard.
- This is a threat? For us, this is unacceptable.
- Think as you wish, I said my word.


Attribution dialogue seems unnecessary.

The opinion is expressed that with the last word, comrade Putin put the phone on the lever. Other journalists believe that Mr. Erdogan was the first to throw the phone (and not put it). Finally, third media workers who are skeptical and fantasized, unlike other lively colleagues, are deprived, believe that this blunt, categorical conversation was not.

The reason for the conversation, if it really took place, was, perhaps, an unpleasant incident with an Airbus that took place on the evening of October 10 from Moscow to Damascus and was forced to land in Ankara, accompanied by two Turkish Air Force fighters. R.T. Erdogan decided that there were not only peaceful passengers on the plane, but also a military cargo flying to Damascus, namely: weapons and ammunition. The plane was searched for eight hours, but nothing was found except legal cargo. As a result, carping at the "design" of the twelve boxes. And they were confiscated. The passengers, among whom there were seventeen Russians, did not even think of feeding. People spent eight hours on board, waiting for the gracious permission of the Turkish authorities to take off. Only 18 of October it became known that Ankara recognized: yes, the cargo is legal and legal. This electrical equipment, which is not contrary to international conventions and the carriage of which is not prohibited. You never know it is a "dual purpose." And it does not matter where the liner was heading - let it go to Syria, which Mr. Erdogan, in collaboration with Qatar and Saudi Arabia, is dreaming of splitting into flightless and buffer zones. The civilian airbus did not carry any ammunition (and more than atomic bombs and chemical weapons) there.

Belatedly Turkey expressed official regret over the delay of the flight and the inconvenience caused to passengers. Like, we did not know that the Russians were flying there, otherwise they wouldn’t have done so ugly. The information arrived late, and all that kind of other justification.

But the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Comrade Lukashevich saidthat, as citizens who were aboard the liner testify, representatives of Turkish law enforcement officers were rude to them, and even physical measures were applied to the crew members. Therefore, Moscow insists on the need to thoroughly investigate all the details of the incident and obtain explanations from the Turkish authorities. And the Kremlin is awaiting the return of the seized cargo.

Whatever one may say, the Turks did badly: the plane was detained and subjected to illegal search, the passengers were left hungry, they were rude, they used measures, they apologized late ... In general, this whole action with fighters ought to be equated to air piracy. Pirates differ only in that from detectives and prime ministers that apologies do not bring. However, the times are changing, and with them, mores.

The liner is one reason for the current cooling of Moscow’s relations with Ankara. The second reason can be called already long-standing. This is Syria.

Israeli resource Zman.com with alarm пишет that what is happening in Syria more and more resembles a war not only regional, but global in scale.

Turkey, Lebanon, Russia, the United States are already involved in the conflict, there are other, so far indirect participants. And if Moscow and Washington "break their spears in the next diplomatic confrontation," then Ankara "declares itself as an active player in the Middle East arena, who intends to defend its interests and pursue its geopolitics ..."

And indeed: the Turks not only forcibly landed a civilian airliner, referring to their intelligence information on ammunition and weapons on board, but also concentrated large army forces in the area of ​​the border with Syria. Nearly one hundred thousand Syrian refugees found temporary shelter in Turkey. Erdogan, like a year ago, sharply opposes the “regime” of Bashar al-Assad and calls on the Western countries to overthrow him.

NATO and the West, however, ambitious Turkish politicians do not really encourage. Probably, Mr. Erdogan is looking forward to Romney’s coming to power. Before the 6 elections in November, there was nothing left, and there it was within reach of the January inauguration. It is difficult to say what the policy of Romney, who is more concerned with Iran and Russia (enemy number one), can be with respect to Syria; however, Romney has not yet elected. One thing is clear: the United States does not want any power to strengthen in the Middle East. Nowadays, the theory of controlled chaos is in vogue in America, but it does not at all imply anyone's regional domination: this state of affairs would differ significantly from their aspirations of the hegemon of the globe. Americans are not eager to see "powers" on the world map.

By the way, a much more ancient way of subjugating peoples fits into the formulation of just three words: “Divide and conquer” (there are many versions of the origin of this principle of management, it is possible that its author is Comrade Machiavelli). According to this principle, the USA worked in the geopolitical direction earlier, and it worked out quite well for them. There is no longer the USSR or its reinforced satellites from Eastern Europe.

But now the Middle East, along with North Africa, is hitting its democrats. The “Arab Spring” turned against the United States: they’ll burn the stars and stripes in Cairo, they will kill the ambassador and three more Americans in Benghazi, then Iraq will decide to buy weapons from Russia - as much as five billion dollars - and at the same time make friends with Iran, with who quarreled before. And in Egypt in general 87 percent, according to recent survey, they are in favor of creating an atomic bomb, and a little less than a percent believe that Iran is Egypt's best friend. But Israel, an ally of the United States, is not at all a friend.

In such a geopolitical situation, Turkey, with its regional claims, should behave much more cautiously.

Browser Yusuf Kanli считаетthat Turkey - as one of the clear supporters of the creation of a buffer zone in Syria - may eventually be drawn into a war. Why is this necessary? The author, who passed Erdogan's ambitions, does not find the answer. (However, Erdogan and the Turkish people are different concepts, what Erdogan needs is hardly required by the people. We will return to this later). Then the analyst asks another question: is Turkey at all able to occupy the territory of Syria, establish the state of transition to a democratic form of government there and then peacefully withdraw the troops? Probably, the occupying side of Syria is still implied by the West, not Turkey.

Yes, this conclusion suggests itself: after all, Turkey constantly makes harsh statements for NATO and the UN Security Council. And the other day Erdogan in Istanbul even announced the displacement of the center of the world. Where exactly the center is shifting from America, he did not say, but you can guess. But this new center, or one of the centers, is very shy (since the era of multipolarity is coming), the center that is turning to the Security Council, now to NATO, now to the USA ... Here, for example, China, which is much more like a new center power behaves quite independently. If he needs to say something about the islands - he says. It is necessary to bring the warships to the oil-bearing shelf - it leads. It is necessary to build the city of Sansha in the disputed territory - it does just that. It is necessary to expel foreigners from Beijing - in the People's Daily and write about it. And they will say on TV. It is necessary to drop the production of "Toyota" or "Honda" with "Mazda" - will be dropped. This is an independent policy, regardless of its results. Turkey, possessing a fairly powerful army (military spending is several times higher than similar Syrian ones, although Syria has a good air defense system and an army trained in constant battles, and Moscow and Tehran are looming behind Damascus, and more recently Iraq). in statements. She would like to war with the hands of the West, I mean NATO or, in extreme cases, peacekeepers from the UN, and the West would like to do a bloody deed with Turkish hands. There is a vicious circle, and a politician of such a high rank and such great experience as R.T. Erdogan cannot but understand this. That is why he is nervous and makes hot statements - recognizing that no, the center has not shifted and that some people hope that this good old center with coordinates in Washington.

Comrade canli sets Another question: “Will Iran, Iraq and Russia remain indifferent spectators of how the Western world is shedding Turkish blood for the opportunity to occupy Syria?” Would it not be naive of them? ”

Judging by the telephone conversation (which, if it was invented, it was invented successfully), Russia this time will not be naive. And Obama in the White House realizes this, because he does not even go to Syria — well, except with millions of “humanitarian aid” from Hillary Clinton. Even Romney is unlikely to risk going there first - at least in order to annoy major "America's geopolitical enemy number one." Romney understands little in foreign policy, but he has advisers (for example, Mr. Bolton). They will dissuade him from hasty decisions. True, advisers will not give up the role of the hegemon that America should continue to play in the world. But Turkey as a local hegemon-prince and Bolton is not needed.

The collapse of Syria is a geopolitical gateway to Iran. Comrades Asad and Ahmadinejad are aware of such a possible scenario, and therefore they are very close friends, including in the military-strategic sense. Both Assad and Ahmadinejad see what is happening in the region: in Jordan distemper sowed by Islamists (the Muslim Brotherhood, and along with al Qaeda, whose planned terrorist attacks were recently successfully prevented by the local special services), in Saudi Arabia - the crisis of “gerontocracy” with a lot of heirs plus the rapid growth of public debt, which is the most favorable reason for the development of the Arab Spring in the country, and the UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan, who also sees and understands acted with a statement that the Gulf countries should cooperate in order to prevent the Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy to undermine power in the entire region. And if Kuwait, which is unable to overpower the Brothers, under the name of the Islamic Constitutional Movement, representing the most powerful party in the state, is unlikely to be able to help with this, then the Saudis (the antagonists of the Brothers) and Bahrain with Oman will side with the UAE - because there "Brothers" are weak. Qatar, however, will be silent, being closely associated with the “Brothers”.

Therefore, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which together supply arms and ammunition to Syria, diverge here.

So, we have not two, but as many as three Middle Eastern "camps": Syria, Iran and Iraq - this is the time; Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar are two; UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman - three. Kuwait and Jordan remain on the sidelines, but this is temporary; they will also have to take someone's side: the existence of the “Arab spring” determines political consciousness. For example, the King of Jordan, Abdullah II, will have to either adopt a constitutional monarchy, or oppose the Muslim Brotherhood, which he is ready to put forward an ultimatum about renunciation - and in January, probably, he will. If he opposes them, he will automatically be in the same group with the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Oman. And there is a case for Kuwait and Qatar.

Thus, the confrontation between Turkey and Syria, even the supposed one, has a huge impact on the situation throughout the Middle East. If the secular government of Assad is overthrown, and Syria splits into enclaves of Druze, Kurds, Shiites, Sunnis and Christians, plus some Turkish-NATO buffer zones, it will immediately turn into a seething cauldron of religious clashes, which will certainly be used by Islamist radicals, skillfully acting under democratic slogans, but under the black flag. No wonder al-Qaeda and terrorist mercenaries from all over the world are fighting in Syria. They are not fighting for American-style democracy there, so that Hillary Clinton would not think about it. However, earlier she admitted that she did not know who this opposition consists of. Of course, he does not know.

Another global player in the Middle East is Russia. No, it's not about the military base in the port of Tartus or the arms trade. The loss of Syria would mean for Russia a loss and influence in the region, and at the same time a long minus in foreign policy. If the Kremlin embarked on a policy of raising the country's role in world politics, then to miss Syria would mean to suddenly turn off this course. Thus, Putin would have reduced himself to a geopolitical zero, and Obama would have had occasion to declare the success of the “reset”. Therefore, the scenario of the Russian Federation refusing to veto at the UN Security Council is unlikely, no matter how the French and other Monsieur Europeans dreamed of, recently, at a Luxembourg dinner, “disappointed” by the unshakable stance of Comrade Lavrov.

Iraq with its Shiites (Premier Al-Maliki - Shiite) in the event of a total turmoil in the region will not remain indifferent either. The urgent purchase of weapons for large sums and new supply arrangements - with Russia and the Czech Republic - speaks volumes. Iraq is preparing for what may happen. And al-Maliki already dissociated himself from the USA - he saidthat Washington will not be able to block the contract for the purchase of Russian weapons signed by Baghdad:

“Whether it is the purchase of weapons or oil or political consultations, we do not consult anyone on these issues. Our foreign policy is to proceed from our own interests. ”


Curiously, some members of the Iraqi parliament count them.that, armed to the teeth, al-Maliki will ignite the flames of the internal conflict in Iraq, finally become friends with Iran, help Syria and complicate the country's relations with Turkey.

We can not say that they are greatly mistaken. But we must bear in mind that not al-Maliki will be the first, but Erdogan. It just so happened that it was he, with his claims to the great power of Ankara, "complicates the relationship." At the same time, Erdogan harms his own country: encouraging terrorism in Syria and getting refugees from the border, he squandered the budget, undermining a stable economy - which he is considered the father of. Thinking about the future multipolarity of the world, the Prime Minister seems to be not at all multipolarity. If a war begins in the region that encompasses several states, Turkey will not be happy. The wise Bashar Asad has already strategically warned Erdogan, allowing the Kurds on the border with Syria to create their own army. Yes, it can hurt Assad himself, but for now it hurts Turkey.

Dmitry Sedov on this topic пишет:

“However, a real blow to Turkish interests was dealt in July. city ​​of Damascus. Syrian President Bashar Assad suggested that Syrian Kurds withdraw their army from their cities and villages and even grant them autonomy if they stop fighting in the ranks of the opposition. Assad's proposal was accepted. Syrian troops left the Kurdish territories, and the Kurds gained control over the territory of their residence in Syria and the border with Turkey. The Turkish authorities saw how Syrian Kurds began to hang out the flags of the Kurdish resistance forces operating in Turkey. The situation has radically changed, because yesterday the Kurdish enclaves in Syria were the springboard of the insurgency. Ankara intended to send troops there under the pretext of forming a “buffer zone” of security. And now it is a territory friendly to the Syrian government. Moreover, the Turkish authorities have every reason to believe that the infiltration of Kurdish separatists into Turkey from this territory will increase, including in order to organize terrorist acts.

There is no doubt that Bashar Asad took this bold step and achieved success after consulting with Tehran. ”


If the Kurdish Workers' Party in Turkey and these new armed forces unite, the boomerang will return and hit Mr. Erdogan, who is so eager for regional hegemony, in the forehead. Approximately the same will return, as he returned to the United States in the cases of Al-Qaeda, raised in the 1980 of the CIA, and in the case of the Arab Spring, which turned into protests around the world on September 11 of the year 2012 - allegedly because of scandalous film "Innocence of Muslims".

If Erdogan calls NATO to fight, do the Turkish people want war with Syria?

October 21 in Hatay Province, Syria Passed the action “No to imperialist interference in the affairs of Syria”, during which a predictable clash took place between the youth wing of the Anti-imperialist Association of Turkey and the police: the administration of Governor Hatay did not give permission to hold a rally before.

Earlier, 20 of October, Turkish public organizations united for the sake of righteousness - the Confederation of Trade Unions of Revolutionary Workers, the Confederation of Civil Service Unions, the Federation of Engineers and Architects of Turkey, the Federation of Turkish Doctors - also held a protest in Ankara. They opposed the Justice and Development Party, led by Erdogan, the policy towards Syria, as well as its economic consequences. Protesters walked through the center of Ankara, unfolding a banner: “War means death, hunger, unemployment and price increases. There are no war-fed PSRs. ” The protest was supported by the Halkavleri organization of public education, the socialist parties and movements, the Turkish Communist Party and the Workers Movement Party. Protesters shouted slogans: "We will not allow war", "Tayyip who has sold out to the Americans", "AKP is an ally of the murderer - the USA", "AKP is away from Syria".

The Secretary General of the Confederation of Civil Service Unions of Turkey, Ismail Hakki Tombul, read an appeal to the press:

“The government of the AKP leads to the impoverishment of the people and, playing the role of a contractor in the imperialists' intervention in the life of Syria, pushes the country into a bloody war. Turkey is guilty of the death of innocent people of Syria. Ankara at the behest of the United States has become a regional military bridgehead and leads a militant policy inflating interfaith clashes. Educated under the influence of large military spending, the budget deficit is being tried to be closed at the expense of the workers ’pocket, introducing new taxes and raising prices.”


The course of neoosmanism, which adheres to the “moderate Islamist” R. T. Erdogan, not without purpose comparing the situation in Syria with the situation in Yugoslavia 1990's, before its collapse, however, Turkey cannot be realized. So считает the chief editor of Russia in Global Politics, Fedor Lukyanov, who recently visited Istanbul at a congress dedicated to the security issues of the Black Sea and Caucasus regions, where, in addition to the main topic, they also spoke about Syria. He said:

“... It remains a very curious impression. There were no politicians there, there were no active diplomats - there were several “former” people, including the former foreign minister, and scientists.

They have a very sour attitude towards the results to which Turkish policy has led over the past year, during the acute phase. The opinion of thinking people is about the same: Turkey overestimated its capabilities and underestimated the complexity of everything around. As a result, Erdogan fell into a position where actions lead to deterioration, and inaction leads to loss of reputation. Therefore, we have to act, despite the fact that the majority of the population, according to polls, does not at all support the idea of ​​a war with Syria, this does not seem expedient to anyone. ”


The guests of the meeting believe that Erdogan needs to get out of such an uncomfortable and ambivalent position, tempering his appetites and ambitions:

“... the more so because the idea that the Turkish leadership had two years ago, when the Arab Spring began, that Turkey could become a flagship, setting an example of how to combine democracy, moderate Islam and modern development, did not work. It has already become absolutely clear that these countries are taking a different path - not because Turkey is bad or good, but because they have a completely different background ... "


Has got from Lukyanov on nuts and to the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Turkey Mr. Davutoglu:

“... But the most important thing is the credo proclaimed by Davutoglu several years ago, when Turkey turned to a new course, which many outside called neo-Ottomanism. This is a departure from a purely pro-Western orientation towards an attempt to restore influence along the entire perimeter of the borders, throughout the territory of the former Ottoman Empire.

This credo was: “Zero problems with neighbors.” That is, they say, we will pursue such a policy that we will have good relations with all our neighbors, and this is how Turkey will rise to the regional leader. Now it sounds like a joke, because during this period there was not a single neighbor with whom Turkey would have no serious problems ... "


Against the background of a nearly weekly increase in tensions of Turkey’s relations, the economy of which the rulers of the AKP were so proud most recently may suffer.

Davutoglu in January of this year announced that in five years Turkish-Russian trade will reach 100 billions of dollars a year. In July, the same figures were voiced by V. Putin. The turnover of Turkey with Russia, by the way, is now almost 2,5 times more than the volume of trade in Turkey and the United States.

Russia is building nuclear power plants in Turkey. The cost of the four-reactor project - 20 billion. $. A nuclear power plant will cover 10% of Turkey’s demand for electricity, and Russia Calculates on profits of $ 4 billion per year.

Last week, Russian Gazprom satisfies Turkey's maximum demand for gas supplies. Additional gas was needed after the explosion on the night of October 19 on the East Anatolian gas pipeline, after which supplies from Iran stopped. The Turkish company Botas has requested an increase in the volume of Russian natural gas supplies to the maximum daily value - 48 million cubic meters. m, and Gazprom Export added the necessary daily allowances of 16 million cubic meters. m of gas. Russia ranks first among gas exporters to Turkey, followed by Iran and Azerbaijan. It is assumed that if the repair of the pipeline is delayed, then Russia will increase Turkey's gas supplies to 3-5%.

Minister of Energy and Natural Resources of Turkey Taner Yildiz on behalf of his country expressed appreciation Russia and Azerbaijan for responding promptly to Turkey’s request for increased supplies.

This summer Turkey is already missed 10% Russian tourists. If she gets involved in a war, her tourism economy will cease to exist altogether.

It is not surprising that the Turkish people do not like the policy of Mr. Erdogan. In addition to the internal devastation that his policy is fraught with, Turkey is about to fall into external isolation. Either Ankara alone will have to clear up what is now unwilling to share with her gentlemen who accept the principle of "divide and rule", or Ankara may still have time to abandon Erdogan's ambitious claims to regional hegemony, even if he has lost his political face. However, it seems that this face is already lost before the people - and we must speak about its emergency recovery.

As for the regional hegemony of Turkey, this idea is disliked not only by all its neighbors, but also by the USA, which only see themselves as hegemones.

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
327 comments
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  1. Lech e-mine
    Lech e-mine 24 October 2012 08: 21
    +32
    It’s clear that ERDOGAN needs to somehow crawl out of the swamp into which he stupidly climbed. The only question is how far he can go in his desire to establish TURKEY’s dominance in this region. In any situation, the Turks are sitting on a powder keg. and a fire will begin to extinguish WAR that both RUSSIA and all interested states in this region will have to extinguish.
    1. Che
      Che 24 October 2012 08: 51
      +37
      Lech e-mine,
      He was not stupid, but under the pressure of amers got into this dirty business. He would admit that he would not succumb to blackmail and would save his face and evade this dirty business.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 24 October 2012 10: 54
        +15
        All right, not stupidity, but the exact calculation of the Americans, while they are re-elected there, they need to keep the situation warm, so they use the Turk as a wick, after all, a member of NATO and if that (and this "what" can be organized) fit in, on supposedly legal grounds. And in the spring we will still get a mess there and the seriousness of the consequences for us will depend on how meticulously and professionally our leadership prepares for this mess. Proceeding, of course, from the real opportunities and tasks that Russia now faces.
        1. vpm
          vpm 24 October 2012 13: 23
          +5
          Ameras are certainly not angels, but strangely enough they are only relatively involved. Turkey has a civilizational experience in managing the Middle East and its own ambitions, which often run counter to the interests of both the United States and NATO. Take Abdullah Gul though, the person spent 8 years working for the Islamic Development Bank in Saudi Arabia, which in turn has an extensive network of contacts and investments throughout the Middle East (http://www.isdb.org). Also, Turkey didn’t have a memory anywhere as after the First World War the Ottoman Empire was torn apart - for the time being they were silent, but with the weakening of the influence of the Americans in the region, the old memory of the empire is again felt, and the vacuum of power that is formed with the fall of different regimes on BV provides opportunities for people with a vision to realize it in the absence of a strong organized central authority, and access to finance with the financial sector in the financial sector in Saudi Arabia. So Turkey is playing its game and it will aim to restore, if not the Ottoman Empire, then the growth of its influence in the region, for which conditions are now more than favorable.
      2. Vanek
        Vanek 24 October 2012 12: 41
        +4
        I do not want to offend anyone so to speak, but I will try to correct the inaccuracy. In particular, this:

        Quote: Leha e-mine
        somehow crawl out of that swamp into which he stupidly climbed


        Alexei, the president of Bolivia made clear what it is. This is not a swamp - it is excrement.
      3. Lucky
        Lucky 24 October 2012 13: 24
        +1
        It’s not so easy to leave, I took the burden upon me, in America I’m not fools either, they won’t just let me go, I’ll work, walk live and enjoy!)
        1. Jin
          Jin 24 October 2012 15: 49
          +4
          Quote: Lucky
          It’s not so easy to leave, I took the burden upon me, in America I’m not fools either, they won’t just let me go, I’ll work, walk live and enjoy!)


          Yeah! Here is someone who, and the amers will definitely let go of the figs! What from them, what from their bases, you bite off the hell! Without soap, they will get into * opa. No, well, of course, you can give them a good counter, only a few such politicians, the rest are somehow, to put it mildly, afraid! Amer then raise such a stench to the whole world, you can’t breathe, but who needs it? Only sanctions, but the embargo only stun. On the one hand, NATO is harboring, on the other, Russia is frowning ... Mr. Erdogan is now scratching his turnips, he fell between a rock and a hard place ...
      4. Trofimov Andrey
        Trofimov Andrey 24 October 2012 17: 48
        0
        Would go after Gaddafi, forever

        Would go after Gaddafi, forever
      5. Cynic
        Cynic 24 October 2012 18: 07
        +4
        Quote: Che
        and under the pressure of amers

        Rather, the situation was as follows:
        "Saw, Shura, saw ... They are golden ..."
        Result

        bully
      6. Simon
        Simon 24 October 2012 21: 30
        +3
        Fuck, he’ll leave, his hand is itchy, he wants to feel himself as a sultan, but he doesn’t think about the consequences. fool
      7. vikontas56
        vikontas56 24 October 2012 23: 48
        +3
        To put it more precisely - at the desire of the Amers, coinciding with HIS personal desire to stick his nose in Syrian affairs! But he forgot the well-known saying - "In a strange monastery with your ... don’t stick your member!" And tapericha is reaping the results!
    2. PatriotizTAT
      PatriotizTAT 24 October 2012 08: 55
      +8
      The article is wonderful ... at first it’s encouraging, and then everything’s on the shelves! If this conversation was there then it will never be laid out in the media, such a conversation could only remain a secret ... after all, everything is on the strings, who heard who merged ... doubt!
      1. maestro123
        maestro123 24 October 2012 12: 27
        0
        But there is infa, unless of course from the Kremlin cleaners, or is this an assumption.
        1. alexng
          alexng 24 October 2012 13: 50
          +4
          It follows from the article that the US will soon, and probably very soon, lose another ally in the person of Turkey. So the cards go. And if this happens, then there can be no talk of intervention in Iran. I already wrote once that from a certain moment everything that the States do not take now will work against themselves. And that’s all. They have already passed the point of no return. And now we are observing how a clear vector is formed from the chaos artificially created by America and is not in favor of the United States.
          1. Ortrega
            Ortrega 27 October 2012 14: 57
            0
            Quote: alexneg
            And now we are observing how a clear vector is formed from the chaos artificially created by America and is not in favor of the United States.

            As you know, Americans, like their state, were created artificially by means of weapons and bloodshed! Note that the face of an American can be recognized by a fake smile and gaze.
            As such, the American nation does not exist, which means that it’s not natural, it’s a fake, which is not naturally ugly. Another little bandyugan will sink into oblivion fellow
    3. Beck
      Beck 24 October 2012 09: 23
      0
      FIRST. Is this dialogue between Putin and Erdogan officially confirmed? Not. Well, a journalist, for sensationalism, will also turn his rectum outward.

      SECOND. This article is only to ensure that we are empty here, to the wind, to scamper and flail without reason on the red and green buttons.
      1. 755962
        755962 24 October 2012 10: 03
        +17
        Quote: Beck
        Is this dialogue between Putin and Erdogan officially confirmed? Not.

        Even if it is not confirmed, the vector of relations is clear without words. Turkey is a puppet in the hands of NATO, this must be taken into account in the first place. The threads for which the "director" pulls can be done .... (as you like) No one has canceled the levers of influence. Only diplomacy and a reasonable approach. He said everything.
        1. borisst64
          borisst64 24 October 2012 10: 52
          +1
          Quote: 755962
          Turkey puppet in NATO hands

          Nevertheless, in the conflict 08.08.08 Turkey supported Russia.
          1. mamba
            mamba 24 October 2012 13: 04
            +5
            Quote: borisst64
            Nevertheless, in the conflict 08.08.08 Turkey supported Russia.

            And according to rumors with a State Department darling, Turkey allegedly stopped the advance of Russian troops deep into Georgia, saying that when they are less than 100 km closer to the border, it will intervene in the conflict. wink
            Interestingly, then Moscow and Ankara butted on the phone? And if so, who was the first to hang up? laughing
            1. alexng
              alexng 24 October 2012 14: 41
              +2
              If the iPhone had not given the order, stopped flirting with the West, then Georgia would have long ago changed its vector to the opposite and the Turks have nothing to do with it. But it can take Adjaria away from Georgia if Georgia does not come to its senses after Sahaki.
            2. mamba
              mamba 24 October 2012 16: 59
              +8
              Well, minusers, frolic! Isn't it a joke that you understand? Or do you read the syllables? laughing
        2. Beck
          Beck 24 October 2012 11: 02
          -8
          Quote: 755962
          Turkey is a puppet in the hands of NATO,


          I would not say so. First of all, Turkey is a member of NATO. And must comply with the charter.
          1. Cap-3 USSR
            Cap-3 USSR 24 October 2012 11: 29
            +8
            You want to say that in NATO, someone is able to blather against the policy of the owner?
            1. Beck
              Beck 24 October 2012 11: 35
              +4
              Quote: Cap-3 of the USSR
              You want to say that in NATO, someone is able to blather against the policy of the owner?


              Actually, everyone can say anything there. France won and left NATO in 60 years.
              1. core
                core 24 October 2012 14: 33
                +2
                speak all sorts of things. talk of independence is one thing, and actions and deeds are completely different. NATO is not independent in its actions; all decisions are made in Washington.
                1. Kshatriy
                  Kshatriy 24 October 2012 20: 26
                  +5
                  Quote: core
                  all decisions are made in Washington.

                  That is why he and Fashington ... The best, under the protection of God, led by the wise leadership of the party and personally by the most INNESS President, chosen by the most tolerant people on this sinful land, the forefront of the DPRM of Kratia ... (the cost of the military machine -killer in the United States is comparable to the defense spending of the rest of the population of our planet) .... "Russia is our strategic ENEMY No. 1" --- mit romney ... So somehow yes?
                  1. alexander hjcnjd
                    alexander hjcnjd 25 October 2012 13: 01
                    -7
                    And what would you do without the USA. They have democracy, and how you deigned to speak
                    Quote: Kshatriya
                    DNR
                    with us. And how dare you criticize the country to which our elite, led by the World War II, is pumping money am .
              2. Ortrega
                Ortrega 27 October 2012 15: 08
                0
                Quote: Beck
                Actually, everyone can say anything there. France won and left NATO in 60 years.

                The fact of the matter is that it came out, and did not rock the law, being in the block feel
            2. v53993
              v53993 24 October 2012 22: 59
              +1
              And you don’t think that in NATO, not everyone is already blathering in support of the “master”.
              1. 25 October 2012 22: 45
                +2
                Quote: v53993
                And you don’t think that in NATO, not everyone is already blathering in support of the “master”.

                USAID, UNICEF, CFE Treaty, Nunn-Lugar Program, Duma Criticism of US Human Rights Violations ...
                Yes ... Putin firmly took up the ov
                The hegemon is weakening, it is already obvious to everyone.
          2. SergeySK
            SergeySK 24 October 2012 18: 00
            +4
            Beck,

            And the charter says!

            If the United States decides to strangle (Hypothetically) Sunnis in the person of Saudi Arabia, then Turkey be healthy to go shoulder to shoulder and not otherwise and certainly not vice versa! ! !
          3. Che burashka
            Che burashka 24 October 2012 20: 32
            +2
            Quote: Beck
            I would not say so. First of all, Turkey is a member of NATO. And must comply with the charter.

            In-in! In this case, the keyword is MEMBER. And gradually turns into) / (opu.
            1. Ortrega
              Ortrega 27 October 2012 15: 13
              0
              Quote: Che Burashka
              In-in! In this case, the keyword is MEMBER. And gradually turns into) / (opu.

              You wanted to say in (!) Opu lol
          4. slav4ikus
            slav4ikus 25 October 2012 20: 16
            +4
            when Yugoslavia was bombed, something was not heard about observing the statutes of NATO and the UN
        3. alexander hjcnjd
          alexander hjcnjd 25 October 2012 12: 55
          -2
          Quote: 755962
          .Turkey is a puppet in the hands of NATO, this must be taken into account in the first place.
          What are you !!!!!!!!!! Well then, we, with all the officials headed by the president keeping property and families in the west and living on a rotational basis, have nothing to fear. Hurray, let's have one more small victorious war. Corruption, police lawlessness, backward commodity economy, terrible education, demographic abyss, inter-ethnic problems, but all this is not important fellow fellow fellow after all, someone said that Vova had a fight with someone. What else do the pro-Putin people need for happiness wassat .
      2. tan0472
        tan0472 24 October 2012 10: 27
        +6
        Quote: Leha e-mine
        The stump is clear that ERDOGAN needs to somehow crawl out of the swamp into which he stupidly climbed.

        Often servants receive slap in the face intended for their owners. You choose whom to serve yourself.
      3. Kshatriy
        Kshatriy 24 October 2012 20: 10
        +1
        Quote: Beck
        FIRST. Is this dialogue between Putin and Erdogan officially confirmed? Not. Well, a journalist, for sensationalism, will also turn his rectum outward.

        100% to you + ..... It’s not always that I’m getting into a peak with you ??? ... To have this dialogue ... Putin must be drunk in alcohol and Erdagan to the same extent to get a ganjubas, that for their rank is a little plausible .... Conclusion - fall into the ravings of the media, but for what ...?
        Quote: Beck
        This article is only to ensure that we are empty here, to the wind, to scamper and flail without reason on the red and green buttons.
        ..... It and I think so .... (this is my personal point of view, which inadvertently completely coincides with your point of view on this publication) .. It turns out that the Democrats are of the liberal sense and the National Socialists sometimes have the same vision political situevina ... In what happens!
        1. Beck
          Beck 25 October 2012 08: 13
          +2
          Kshatriya.

          Found a common ground. and good. It turns out the language not only brings to Kiev. On that and enriched that we communicate.
    4. Fox 070
      Fox 070 24 October 2012 11: 04
      +5
      Quote: Leha e-mine
      a fire will begin to extinguish WAR that both RUSSIA and all interested states in this region will have to extinguish.

      Everything is so, only "interested" countries will "extinguish" with gasoline, and the most "interested" country will try the most.
      And if such a conversation took place (which I really hope), this will give Erdogan a significant impetus for making the right decision.
      In general, it is time to "return" the too presumptuous Turkey to the mainstream of normal good-neighborly relations.
      1. zadotov
        zadotov 24 October 2012 12: 31
        +2
        Well, technically, a Turkish soldier has already crossed the border in Shirnak
      2. Insurgent
        Insurgent 24 October 2012 22: 00
        +3
        Interne like a war announcing 60 million country under the guise of NATO is not Georgia
      3. alexander hjcnjd
        alexander hjcnjd 25 October 2012 13: 05
        -7
        Quote: Fox 070
        In general, it's time to "return" the oversized Turkey
        and what are you planning to return. Our gloomy army, which, instead of firing, is engaged in the development of hazing, theft of money, and sweeping sidewalks?
        1. slav4ikus
          slav4ikus 25 October 2012 20: 19
          +3
          firstly, the army is not a glove-room, the devastation is not in closets, but in the heads, secondly, I live near the firing range and I don’t know what constant firing is, and even more so I serve in it, well, and thirdly, they’re stealing money who should sweep and lead.
    5. Kostyar
      Kostyar 24 October 2012 18: 51
      +1
      This is not stupidity, this is political foresight ...
    6. mikula
      mikula 24 October 2012 22: 08
      +5
      Let’s translate the phrase — if at least one Turkish soldier — into Russian, and it will immediately become clear - said these words, Comrade Putin, or this is another throwing shit on the fan. And so in Russian this phrase should sound like this: If NATO invades Syria, then Russia will tear NATO as a hot-water bottle. And now the question is: could Putin, in his right mind, throw such a challenge to NATO. Or Russia in its capabilities surpassed the USSR and the Warsaw Pact countries - combined.
      1. Old skeptic
        Old skeptic 24 October 2012 23: 34
        +4
        A tough reaction can be this (economic war):
        1. Turn off the gas. (Iran will join).
        2. Throw the enemy guns.
        3. Kill the entire tourism industry in Turkey.
        5. Light industry will suffer. (I suppose you are wearing a Turkish leather jacket.)

        Result Erdogan and his political party in .....

        And you can play the Syrian game together (in a friend, the Kurds will have a lot of interesting things).
        1. alexander hjcnjd
          alexander hjcnjd 25 October 2012 13: 17
          -1
          Quote: Old Skeptic
          Turn off the gas. (Iran will join).
          you have heard about shale gas, Qatar, Tajikistan. By the way, we have a kind of commodity economy, so they will somehow interrupt, and we will bend.

          Quote: Old Skeptic
          Throw the guns at the enemy.
          they have enough weapons, only something and a half years the war continues.

          Quote: Old Skeptic
          Kill the whole tourist industry of Turkey.
          Of course, our tourism industry is many times better than the cold Black Sea and the high-quality level of service.

          Quote: Old Skeptic
          Light industry will suffer. (I suppose you are wearing a Turkish leather jacket.)
          You correctly said about the Turkish jacket, there are no our officials in power there and the industry is functioning among the Turks. So, we will remain without outerwear.
        2. Ortrega
          Ortrega 27 October 2012 15: 23
          0
          Quote: Old Skeptic
          Result Erdogan and his political party in .....

          And there you can shout that Erdagon is not wealthy, cannot rule the country, connect the Kurds as the opposition, well, etc ... according to the American scenario fellow
      2. Don
        Don 25 October 2012 11: 04
        0
        Quote: mikula
        If NATO invades Syria, then Russia

        So what does NATO have to do with it? It is a question of Turkey.
        1. mikula
          mikula 25 October 2012 16: 33
          0
          Don-So, what does NATO have to do with it? It is a question of Turkey.

          Turkey is a member of NATO.
          1. Don
            Don 26 October 2012 16: 25
            +1
            Quote: mikula
            Turkey is a member of NATO.

            This is clear. Only if Turkey invades Syria does this not mean that all NATO will follow her. Under the agreement, in the event of an attack on one of the members, the rest of the state will automatically defend. And if one of the NATO countries begins aggression against any country, this does not mean that other NATO member countries are obliged to start fighting for it.
      3. them
        them 25 October 2012 18: 41
        0
        mikula, But I wonder how you assess the war with Georgia?
  2. kostyan77708
    kostyan77708 24 October 2012 08: 28
    +10
    Let's hope that such a conversation still took place and comrade perdogan will take note of it and draw conclusions
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 October 2012 08: 51
      +6
      Quote: kostyan77708
      Let's hope that such a conversation still took place


      If it took place, then such conversations are not published, because of their confidentiality.
      1. Bashkaus
        Bashkaus 24 October 2012 09: 30
        +2
        C'mon, after Putin Sakashvili publicly threatened to hang up on a typewriter, I think that Putin could say that - you can believe. But it’s one thing, he would say it publicly, and then there are secret negotiations, but who just do a-can and who will be allowed to listen to the sect line? Therefore, I think that a specific case is still a fiction (((
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 24 October 2012 10: 11
          +3
          Quote: Bashkaus
          after Putin Sakashvili hanging up at the typewriter publicly


          Speak publicly yourself, that is, planned and with invited journalists
      2. Karish
        Karish 24 October 2012 13: 19
        -4
        Quote: Vadivak
        If it took place, then such conversations are not published, because of their confidentiality.

        This is the first.
        Secondly, direct threats (however some might like it) are not acceptable. And Turkey is able to drink quite a bit of Russian blood and it has the opportunity. Therefore, I do not believe in such a conversation, do not publicize the GDP, from scratch. Russia will not because of Syria break off relations with Turkey. These two countries have different levels of flight and money, Syria is not autonomy of Russia and I don’t understand why everyone is tearing the belly up here, except for pumping grandmothers Syria has done nothing for Russia (as well as for the USSR too). Turkey needs Russia and Russia i-Turkey. Therefore, there may be some kind of tension, but it will not reach the gap. Turkey - controls access to the Mediterranean Sea.
        At one time, Churkin seemed to have dropped the ambassador of Qatar to the UN, the reaction did not take long to wait. Caught a Russian diplomat in Qatar and .... The reaction of Russia? And Turkey will be more powerful than Qatar. And because of Syria, Russia will definitely not start a war.
        1. Uncle
          Uncle 24 October 2012 14: 35
          +1
          Quote: Karish
          Syria is not autonomy of Russia and I don’t understand why everything is torn so belly here,

          The fact of the matter is that Syria, in general, does not care. And you can stretch out on its territory. Like we don’t lose anything. Now, if things were going against Ukraine, for example, the alignment would be different. Just on the example of Syria it is worthwhile to show what Russia is capable of in the political and military sense, to work out a methodology in case of a real threat at its borders.
        2. Jin
          Jin 24 October 2012 16: 04
          +2
          Quote: Karish
          Russia will definitely not start a war.


          In full-scale hostilities, with the participation of our troops, it may not be, because this actually means a war with NATO, but with weapons and instructors (they are still there, they teach to crush the opposition, and very successfully at that) they can help, but modern Russian weapons, in sufficient quantities, in Assad's army are unlikely to please someone from NATO. As I understand from the article, Syria is the "gateway to Iran", and Iran borders on the North Caucasus and Turkmenistan !!! And in figs we need it, the war is under the very ass !? There can be such a mess that we’ll get tired of unraveling!
        3. Flooding
          Flooding 24 October 2012 18: 10
          +1
          Quote: Karish
          And Turkey is able to drink quite a bit of Russian blood and it has the opportunity.

          And a mosquito can drink blood. In fact, Turkey can pose any threat to Russia only in cooperation with NATO and radical Islamists. I think I understand you correctly.
          Quote: Karish
          These two countries have different flight and money levels, Syria is not Russian autonomy and I don’t understand why everyone is tearing their belly up here, except for pumping grandmothers Syria has done nothing for Russia (as well as for the USSR too).

          I wonder what Turkey has done for Russia (in the sense of good). I’m not sure that it’s appropriate to talk about mercantile interests. Here we are talking about the status of the state, its future, face, if you want.
        4. Kshatriy
          Kshatriy 24 October 2012 20: 59
          +8
          Quote: Karish
          Churkin seems to have lowered the ambassador of Qatar to the UN, the reaction did not take long to wait. Caught a Russian diplomat in Qatar and .... The reaction of Russia?

          Alya ulyu - chase the geese. !!!! .. Why do you Jews always think that apart from you there are some morons around ???? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) of a Russian diplomat Initially, you are like people (even such a vile humiliation of Russia, you present it as your personal achievement !!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) they were pissed off at the airport, insolently, disgustingly, in the best traditions of the Simitsky UNLIMITED ... (Who will undertake to prove to me that the Arabs are not descendants of SIM ???? ?? ... "... Nov had three sons - Sim, Ham, Japheth ... from them ... according to the" Old Testament "... three races of people went ...) Later, a significant number time after this incident .. (and not vice versa, as follows from your false fabrications !!!!!!!!) .... The Plenipotentiary Ambassador of Russia in the wretched puppet ... "UN" --- henpecked rudiment of Fashington .. ..openly promised to erase from the memory of the peoples of the planet Earth not only the stinking population of "Karalefstvo" - Qatar .. but also the memory of its existence ..... And choooooo ..... blah ... umylis I am a creature ????? What kind of blah sanctions were imposed against Great Russia ???? ... Sit "PIGMIES" and do not blather .... they did not give you the floor .... such was it "Diplomacy" ...

          Quote: Karish
          The reaction of Russia?

          ........ Read the above and NEVER try to change the investigatively temporary continuum of the recent past !!!!!!!
          1. Kshatriy
            Kshatriy 24 October 2012 21: 15
            +4
            Quote: Kshatriya
            ... Read the above and NEVER try to change the investigatively temporary continuum of the recent past !!!!!!!

            Refute at least one line of mine ... Russophobia .... or at least that scrape up before you press on the red knopar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        5. slav4ikus
          slav4ikus 25 October 2012 20: 21
          0
          Russia needs Turkey as an obedient lamb and no more!
        6. Lesorub
          Lesorub 25 October 2012 22: 42
          +2
          Purely hypothetically .... NATO will not intervene in a world war with Russia over Turkey ... ONLY Russia today has a real opportunity to completely destroy the United States and Europe .... and NOT HER about Russian strategic interests WIPING FEET! the Israelis understood this for a long time and hastened to declare Russia their STRATEGIC partner ...))) By the way, Russia's military doctrine on preventive nuclear strikes, in the event of a threat to national security THIS IS NOT AN EMPTY SOUND ....
  3. Gorchakov
    Gorchakov 24 October 2012 08: 35
    +7
    It is hoped that this conversation still took place ....
    1. mnn_12
      mnn_12 24 October 2012 11: 10
      +3
      Yes, we hope that it took place but more importantly - that the correct conclusions were made. Despite some economic successes, Turkey will not be able to independently achieve the geopolitical goals of such a mashab.
      One of the key factors is that there is no defense industry at the level of Erdogan’s ambition. Such was the key problem of the Ottoman Empire before its collapse. For example, in the war with Russia in 1877-78, they fought with weapons that they bought from Western forces.
      Turkey can only be a puppet of Western forces in achieving their regional goals. After achieving these goals, it is clear that a strong Turkey will no longer need anyone. War certainly destroys economy. Unfortunately, Erdogan and the ego ruling team lack the intelligence to understand this.
      1. rumpeljschtizhen
        rumpeljschtizhen 24 October 2012 20: 47
        -5
        And not bad Turks fought in that war of 1877-78 and the sea spilled Russian blood
        300 thousand dead is a lot in those days and the result of the war for us is not what
        In vain people were killed
        1. Don
          Don 25 October 2012 11: 16
          +2
          Quote: rumpeljschtizhen
          300 thousand dead is a lot in those days and the result of the war for us is not what

          What 300 thousand? Russia: 15 567 killed, 56 652 wounded, 6824 died of wounds, 81 363 died of disease. Romania: 4302 killed and missing,
          3316 injured. Turkey: 30 thousand were killed, 90 thousand died from diseases.
          1. rumpeljschtizhen
            rumpeljschtizhen 31 October 2012 22: 29
            0
            Yes, but how do you explain rubbing during a siege is spiteful even if you believe the same wiki
            about 40 thousand
        2. mnn_12
          mnn_12 25 October 2012 16: 07
          +1
          The result of the war was a brilliant victory for the Russian soldiers and Russian weapons. Many monuments remind of this victory. And what politicians have done is another matter.
    2. Cap-3 USSR
      Cap-3 USSR 24 October 2012 11: 32
      +3
      I even want to hope that he was exactly as written. Meek and concise.
    3. Ascetic
      Ascetic 24 October 2012 11: 53
      +19
      Quote: Gorchakov
      It is hoped that this conversation still took place ..


      Rather, this is another throw-in at Regnum, from the same series as Nazarbayev Great Turan. And here are the words of Putna at a meeting of the Military Industrial Commission
      "To whom we sell weapons, no one but the UN Security Council has the right to dictate to us." it's true.
      If you read between the lines, this means, do not stick your long nose into our affairs, or else we’ll
      . Diplomacy .. I remembered a bearded joke in the subject

      There is an exam at MGIMO. The student answered his ticket. But they give him
      additional question.
      - You work deep. serving in one of the countries of central Africa.
      You are declared persona non grata. Your actions?
      “Well, I'll probably write a note of protest at their Foreign Ministry.”
      - Sit down, write. A student writes a note on a piece of paper. He gives the paper to the professor. Professor
      checks.
      - Well, in general, everything is fine, I have no more questions.
      Only here is a small remark.
      "Black-eyed" is spelled with "o".
      "On x" - separately.
      And zae .... b - with a soft sign.
      1. Wanderer1980
        Wanderer1980 24 October 2012 13: 53
        +3
        Hello, Stanislav.
        You do not like Regnum, and we must admit "in the case."
        But information on the Putin-Erdogan conversation appeared here http://italian.irib.ir/notizie/mondo/item/115005-putin-a-erdogan-un-solo-soldato


        -turco-in-siria-uguale-a-guerra-con-la-russia
        Regnum, even if he wrote, he simply picked up, following all.
        Here, for example, the Turks write about it http://www.aydinlikgazete.com/mansetler/16238-putinden-telefonda-rest.html
        Don't you think that this stuffing was organized by circles close to Erdogan in order to save face, because The Turks are already tightly involved in the Syrian events, NATO is in no hurry to help, and can we "don't want to swear with the Russian Federation because of Syria" under the sucker punch?
        You can also find out your opinion on this issue: is the use of the territory of Syria by the countries of the neighbors in order to transport gas to Europe go directly with the interests of the Russian Federation? The presence of Assad guarantees to us (the Russian Federation) that such a project will not be realized. Isn't this the main reason for our support for Syria?
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 24 October 2012 16: 57
          +5
          Quote: Wanderer1980
          Your opinion on this issue, is it possible that the use of the territory of Syria by the countries of the neighbors in order to transport gas to Europe does not directly contradict the interests of the Russian Federation? The presence of Assad guarantees to us (the Russian Federation) that such a project will not be realized. Isn't this the main reason for our support for Syria?


          This is one of the main reasons, I have repeatedly spoken about this. The cheap Qatari gas which they are forced to export by tankers in liquefied form in the event of the construction of the pipeline will seriously squeeze the position of Gazprom in Europe, as some European politicians say will remove the EU's dependence on the Russian gas needle.
          1. Wanderer1980
            Wanderer1980 24 October 2012 18: 05
            +1
            Exactly.
            And only yesterday Bovanenkovo ​​was launched. It is scary to say 140 billion m3 per year. Almost the entire volume of European exports.
            So Asadushka will not sit there - there will be neither new ICBMs, nor Armat, nor Boreev.
            How many are there with the Turks? 30 billion per year?
            Can we lose? Read the whole Mother Russ.
            So it could well have kicked Erdogan's ears wink
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 24 October 2012 19: 18
              +6
              Quote: Wanderer1980
              So it could well have kicked Erdogan's ears


              We will block the "Blue Stream" and do not give on the ears angry

            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 25 October 2012 07: 29
              0
              Quote: Wanderer1980
              Can we lose? Read the whole Mother Russ.

              David, and what side do you have to mother to Russia ??)))
              1. Wanderer1980
                Wanderer1980 25 October 2012 12: 07
                -2
                Alibek.
                "You may not be a poet,
                And to be a citizen is obliged "
      2. Che
        Che 25 October 2012 14: 31
        0
        Ascetic,
        Thank you cheer up. After all, they could once put presumptuous boors in place.
  4. Cesar_Xnumx
    Cesar_Xnumx 24 October 2012 08: 38
    +3
    I wonder what Putin will decide if, nevertheless, the Turks do not heed his warning. Open intervention?
    1. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 24 October 2012 08: 43
      +16
      Yes, there are a lot of ways, the most painful to equip the Kurds with MANPADS or ATGMs, using various other weapons to help them with instructors, and then it will be shorter than mine will be worse than SYRIA.
      1. grizzlir
        grizzlir 24 October 2012 11: 02
        -2
        Quote: Leha e-mine
        Yes there are plenty of ways, the most painful to arm Kurds with MANPADS or ATGMs

        Lyokha, well, it’s mine. We live in Russia and not in the USSR. Russia will not go into conflict with the NATO country. Even if the weapons are thrown to the Kurds, such supplies of Western weapons will begin in the North Caucasus that we will get a war cleaner inside Afghanistan.
        1. Bashkaus
          Bashkaus 24 October 2012 11: 41
          +7
          The Georgians did the same thing about our rusty tanks inaudibly mumbled, and then didn’t have time to smear their ass with Vaseline.
          I hope, of course, that it will not reach "Peace Enforcement-2", although the south is being strengthened, be healthy. In general, theoretically, to force the Turkish military facilities to peace Russia into a state. It would be very interesting for me (albeit insanely dumb) to look at NATO's reaction, if, for example, we launch missile strikes on Turkish military bases and at the same time clearly say "Guys, we warned you, don't go to Syria, what kind of OH did you do that? " What are they going to do? No, really, the NATO principle "one for all and all for one" is certainly cool, but really like this eyes to eyes sight in sight to look at each other weakly? Can the US answer for its words and deeds?
          1. Beck
            Beck 24 October 2012 11: 51
            -5
            Quote: Bashkaus
            I would be very interested (albeit insanely dumb) to look at NATO’s reaction if, for example, we launch rocket attacks on Turkish military bases


            Quote: Bashkaus
            No, really, the NATO principle "one for all and all for one" is certainly cool, but really, like this, eye to eye, sight to sight at each other weakly? Will the United States be able to answer for its words and deeds?


            Well, in order to find out whether the United States can answer, it is first Russia must decide to launch a missile strike on Turkey. So who in their right mind would do that. Because of some kind of non-Russian uncle Assad, the populace of Russia and the whole world could be put under attack. When there are nobody and horns and hooves there will be no discussion, and everything will be dumb, or not dumb.
            1. sergo0000
              sergo0000 24 October 2012 13: 17
              +3
              Beck,
              Do not forget the respected and about a hundred thousand Russian and Russian-speaking citizens in Syria.
              For some reason I would not be surprised at such a conversation, even if it is a duck.
            2. Flooding
              Flooding 24 October 2012 18: 21
              +6
              Quote: Beck
              Well, in order to find out whether the United States can answer, it is first Russia must decide to launch a missile strike on Turkey. So who in their right mind would do that. Because of some kind of non-Russian uncle Assad, the populace of Russia and the whole world could be put under attack. When there are nobody and horns and hooves there will be no discussion, and everything will be dumb, or not dumb.

              Beck, for starters, I would block the flow of Russian tourists due to the unfriendly attitude of the Turkish state. authorities and the inability to ensure guarantees of a safe holiday by the Turkish authorities.
              This is so, on a reflex level ...
              .
              1. Beck
                Beck 24 October 2012 18: 52
                -1
                Underwater.

                It was I Bashkaus who answered his suggestion to hit Turkey with missiles and see if the United States and NATO would dare to intervene.
              2. io_stalin
                io_stalin 29 October 2012 20: 37
                0
                Quote: Flood
                Beck, for starters, I would block the flow of Russian tourists due to the unfriendly attitude of the Turkish state. authorities and the inability to ensure guarantees of a safe holiday by the Turkish authorities.


                Moreover, there are supporting statistics:
                Turkey comes first with a wide margin in insured events.
                In Greece, for example, traveling 13 times safer !!!
                http://lf.rbc.ru/rating/sk/table/195419
            3. Bashkaus
              Bashkaus 24 October 2012 20: 48
              +1
              Well, I'm talking about the same thing. Make a go-round by the Tu22x regiment to Turkey and see if the Americans will harness for some uncle Assad, or they have completely survived from the mind. If in America people are sane, then for the sake of world peace it is not a pity to donate a dozen or two cruise missiles. And if someone finally left the loft overseas, then God himself ordered them to prescribe pills for healing. (No, but what, dogs and kitties of all kinds of patients there are euthanized after all) and with them it is necessary in the same way if the disease is already incurable. We’ll find out everything around and around and guess.
          2. Lesorub
            Lesorub 25 October 2012 23: 10
            +1
            Quote: Bashkaus
            I would be very interested (albeit insanely dumb) to look at NATO’s reaction if, for example, we launch rocket attacks on Turkish military bases

            screaming and ... WRONG! but they won’t get to fight with us - we’ll burn it with an atom ....
        2. Lucky
          Lucky 24 October 2012 13: 37
          -1
          I also think that it will not go to conflict with the country of NATO
        3. Jin
          Jin 24 October 2012 16: 27
          +3
          Quote: grizzlir
          Lyokha, well, it’s mine. We live in Russia and not in the USSR. Russia will not go into conflict with the NATO country. Even if the weapons are thrown to the Kurds, such supplies of Western weapons will begin in the North Caucasus that we will get a war cleaner inside Afghanistan.


          Well, we and the United States have been boggling each other for so many years! Everyone knows everything, but they pretend that they know nothing))) and continue in the same vein. And in Syria both our instructors and our weapons are fighting. This is a question of Russia's prestige on the world stage. Something like Georgia attacking Abkhazia. We can’t cut the back! So they will cease to reckon with us at all ...
        4. Flooding
          Flooding 24 October 2012 18: 16
          +2
          Quote: grizzlir
          Yes, if the Kurds drop weapons, the supply of Western weapons to the North Caucasus begins, so that we get a war inside the country cleaner than Afghanistan.

          To recognize the impossibility of cutting off the supply of weapons to bandit formations in the North. The Caucasus from abroad, and even "such supplies" - it means to sign in their incapacity.
          This is not the most powerful argument in foreign policy in the Middle East.
        5. SergeySK
          SergeySK 24 October 2012 18: 21
          +2
          grizzlir,

          Do you sleep in one slipper ??? What will be revealed there ???

          Both Putin and Medvedev have repeatedly said on TV openly that contracts for the supply of arms to Syria will be fulfilled! ! ! !

          We did not sign any pieces of paper on this subject either at the UNO or even more so with NATO! No blockade of Syria is observed!

          What are you saying that will be revealed ?? Nothing is hiding! ! !
          1. grizzlir
            grizzlir 24 October 2012 18: 33
            0
            Quote: SergeySK
            Do you sleep in one slipper ??? What will be revealed there ???
            And you probably haven’t woken up yet. It's about the supply of weapons to the Kurds. Will the difference between Kurdistan and Syria be explained to you or wake up?
            1. SergeySK
              SergeySK 24 October 2012 18: 56
              +1
              grizzlir,

              You just sleep in one slipper!

              And Assad whose armed them ???? Or do you think that in order to equip the Syrian Kurds we need to throw them on their heads ????
            2. SergeySK
              SergeySK 25 October 2012 22: 01
              0
              grizzlir,

              Nuka nuka explain to me illiterate where the state of Kurdistan is located ???
        6. slav4ikus
          slav4ikus 25 October 2012 20: 25
          0
          and now there is no supply ????? and not only weapons!
      2. Denzel13
        Denzel13 24 October 2012 14: 13
        0
        I think the very first gas valve will start to play.
        1. tekinoral
          tekinoral 24 October 2012 14: 43
          +1
          Gazprom Export increased deliveries to Turkey to 48 million cubic meters. m per day due to an accident on the East Anatolian gas pipeline, through which gas was supplied to the country from Iran. The explosion occurred on October 19, after which the Turkish gas company Botas requested an additional 16 million cubic meters from Gazprom Export. m per day, which are delivered through the Blue Stream (now 32 million cubic meters).
          Read more: http://www.rbcdaily.ru/2012/10/22/tek/562949984975737
          1. Fidain
            Fidain 24 October 2012 17: 01
            +4
            So what?! And you didn’t think that Turkey without Rassiski’s energy sources simply won’t be able to secure its economics and that will eventually get up ... Turkey doesn’t do Russia’s loan that buys gas or oil, it’s all right
            1. tekinoral
              tekinoral 24 October 2012 17: 21
              -1
              Energy ministers are probably thinking about these issues, and who is in your photo?
              1. orfo
                orfo 24 October 2012 20: 19
                0
                Manvel Yeghiazaryan, judging by Google
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 25 October 2012 07: 30
                  0
                  Quote: orfo

                  Manvel Yeghiazaryan, judging by Google

                  already in hell inshallah, like his battalion of mercenaries, international terrorists!
                  1. Wanderer1980
                    Wanderer1980 25 October 2012 12: 14
                    +1
                    Alibek.
                    Have you read how real Azerbaijani soldiers wounded the tales of the murder of Monte Melkonyan in the operation of Ibad Huseynov (aka Vugar Hasanov), to which you were allegedly also involved?
                    If not, I can send you the text in PM.
                    In addition to the interview with Talib Mammadov - I hope the mountain infantrymen know who this is, the Turan news agency talked with the former commander of the 708th brigade of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces, Khatai Bakhishov. Now Bakhyshov is a colonel of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces and a holder of the Order of the Banner of Azerbaijan.
                    I do not think these people are telling a lie.
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 25 October 2012 17: 28
                      0
                      Quote: Wanderer1980
                      I do not think these people are telling a lie.

                      You can think anything David !!))
                      Ask your boss Levonchik Shahnazaryan))))
                      He will tell you))))
                      I personally saw the head of the coward and fascist Melkonyan, I know where I’ve buried, if you will behave yourself, I’ll tell you where))))
                      I’m glad that after I told you here, they immediately perked up !!
                      I brought you pictures and material evidence !!))))))))
                      1. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 25 October 2012 18: 10
                        0
                        You could personally see anything. "Fear has big eyes". In your case, they are simply huge.
                        If a photo of someone's severed head with a "brave, mustachioed asker" next to it is material evidence, then what, I feel sorry for you, Alibek.
                      2. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 25 October 2012 18: 44
                        -1
                        Quote: Wanderer1980

                        You could personally see anything. "Fear has big eyes".

                        Yes, the fear in the eyes of the international terrorist Melkonyan I saw)))
                        Quote: Wanderer1980
                        If a photo of someone's severed head

                        No one's, but Melkonyan))
                        Let's spend the exhumation and see !!))))
                        But still, whose head did you sew on to him, is it really a latex mask?))))))
                        You take pity on yourself !!)))))))
                      3. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 25 October 2012 19: 04
                        0
                        Listen, mountain shooter friend, what were you doing there? )))))))
                        After the statement of the former head of the Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan, General Talib Mammadov, about the falsifications of Ibad Huseynov in connection with the death of Monte Melkoyan, the Turan news agency contacted the former commander of the 708th brigade of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces, Khata Bahakhyshov. Now Bakhyshov is a colonel of the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan and holder of the Order of the Banner of Azerbaijan. In June 1993, he commanded the 2nd Battalion of the 708th Brigade, which participated in battles for the villages of Marzili, Novruzlu and Yusifjanli in the Agdam region.

                        As Bahyshov emphasized, the version of Ibad Huseynov that he allegedly killed Monte Melkonyan was “bankrupt and built on falsifications.” He noted that Huseynov’s lies are constantly “being improved”. Several years ago, Ibad Huseynov, calling himself Vugar Hasanov, claimed that he cut off Melkonyan’s head by accidently meeting him in the village of Muganly. Huseynov stated that he did not know the identity of the murdered person, but only realized this on the evening of June 12, 1993, when he heard from Moscow that “Melkonyan was killed in Karabakh” under the program “Time”. “And when they showed a photograph of the deceased, Ibad and his comrades realized to whom they cut off their heads. This version is set out in the newspaper “525” for July 23, 2005, ”Bahyshov said.

                        However, Bahyshev emphasized, a film about Huseynov was shot a few years later in Azerbaijan, which already has a different version: allegedly a group of Ibad was sent specifically to kill Melkonyan and when Huseynov and his soldiers saw him attacked Melkonyan. Bakhshiyev stressed that without coordination with the 708th brigade, no one could carry out any operations in the area, and there was really no operation mentioned in the film. At the same time, Tofig Jafarov, who commanded a separate reconnaissance reconnaissance in this zone, confirmed that in 1992-93, Ibad Huseynov or anyone else had not received tasks and had not conducted operations against Monte Melkonyan.

                        In turn, the former deputy commander of the 708th brigade, Umudvar Mirzoev, stated that Ibad and his friends had long shown a photograph of a severed head as proof of their innocence, but then stopped doing it. Mirzoev noted that in the article “525th newspaper”, the author attributes the death of Melkonyan to Ibad Huseynov (Vugar Hasanov) the severed head was shown as confirmation. “But the same article says that Melkonyan’s funeral took place in Yerevan in the presence of one hundred thousand people, and the headless body was buried there. At the same time, a reference was made to Moscow television, which is presented as irrefutable evidence, ”Mirzoyev said.

                        An Azerbaijani soldier stated that there could be no message about the death of Melkonyan on Moscow TV, as The Armenians did not immediately report his death and buried him only on June 19. After that, the media reported the death of Melkonyan. So that neither Ibad nor his friends could hear the messages of Moscow TV and see the photo of Melkonyan on June 12, Mirzoyev said. But even assuming that the funeral was shown, Ibad should have seen that Monte Melkonyan’s head was in place. “The upper part of his head was bandaged and that’s it,” Mirzoev noted, indicating that the video from Monte’s funeral is on the Internet and anyone can watch it.

                        He also noted that the photo of the head which Huseynov demonstrates and the photo of Melkonyan are not similar and the experts will easily prove that these are two different faces. “After in several publications, the affiliation of the head to Melkonyan was disproved, Ibad and his friends stopped showing it. However, I won’t be surprised if they now bring out “certificates and instructions” about receiving the assignment and completing the assignment, ”he said.

                        He noted that probably some people in Azerbaijan decided to use this story and make political and other capital from it. “But I don’t understand how it is possible to educate youth on all this?” Mirzoyev was indignant
                      4. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 25 October 2012 19: 06
                        0
                        The commander of a separate battalion, Ilham Binnatov, stated the purely military aspect of the matter: heavy fighting on the left flank from Agdam went along the Marzili-Novruzlu-Yusifjanly line and it was Monte Melkonyan who commanded this attack. “Where do you think he was supposed to be at that moment?” Command an offensive, or walk a dozen kilometers in the village of Muganly, where there was no battle? ”He said.

                        Binnatov recalled that Markar Melkonyan (Monte’s brother) published two books about Monte’s life and described in detail his actions in Karabakh until his death. “If Ibad is to be believed, then Markar came up with a version of Monte’s death from a shot from our infantry fighting vehicle, but what about the description of the military operations that we have, which coincides with everything that is written in the book?” He said.

                        Khatai Bakhyshov noted that the book of Markar Melkonyan talks about how the Armenian units took the villages of Marzili, Novruzlu and Yusifjanly, but the Azerbaijanis launched a counterattack. “Having received this information, Monte immediately went there. He, along with several military men, was driving an UAZ car. At the entrance to the village, they were bombarded. Monte jumped out and tried to hide behind a stone fence. However, a shell fragment from a shot from our infantry fighting vehicle inflicted a mortal wound on his head. So, I led this battle in Marzili, and we saw all this with our own eyes. Of course, we did not know that it was Melkonyan, and we could not know, ”the Azerbaijani military said.

                        He noted that the BMP crew, which fired at Melkonyan’s car, consisted of three people, two of whom died - Shaig Kalbiev (from Bilasuvar) and Asaf Mutallimov (Neftechaly). The third, then 19-year-old Azaddin Musaev survived and served in the Azerbaijani army.

                        Maybe you are Azaddin, but no Alibek? )))))))))))
                      5. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 25 October 2012 20: 01
                        0
                        David: in my opinion, Omar is not enough here, or is it a double standard of the site, one can write and the other cannot
                      6. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 25 October 2012 23: 26
                        0
                        Metin.
                        Did you read?
                        http://warfiles.ru/show-16178-korabli-vmf-rossii-s-podrazdeleniyami-morskoy-peho
                        ty-vstali-na-boevoe-dezhurstvo-v-siriyskom-portu.html
                        On the combat duty in the Syrian port embarked the ships of the Russian Navy, on board of which are the division of the marines. As reported with reference to the Israeli publication DEBKAfile Agency news reports, this information spread a source in Damascus, close to the president of Syria.

                        The publication notes that the task of the Russian military is the so-called "gunboat diplomacy" - to prevent the slightest possibility of armed intervention in Syria. Earlier, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported that a squad of warships was sent to the Mediterranean Sea. According to the press service of the department, "the grouping of ships of the Northern and Baltic Fleets will fulfill combat training missions in the Mediterranean Sea in cooperation with a detachment of warships of the Black Sea Fleet."

                        The grouping sent to the Mediterranean Sea, as reported, includes large landing ships (BDKs) Nikolai Filchenkov, Caesar Kunikov, Alexander Otrakovsky, George the Victorious and Kondopoga. The composite squadron also includes the Smetlivy and Yaroslav the Wise patrol ships, the Admiral Chabanenko BPC, the Nikolay Chiker, Sergey Osipov support vessels, the Lena tanker, and the rescue tugs Shakhtar tug and SB- 5.

                        If this is not a fake, then surely Erdogan recently had to hang up laughing
                      7. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 00: 11
                        0
                        NATO will defend Turkey and is developing appropriate plans in connection with the Syrian crisis. "In the event of an attack on Turkey, NATO will defend the territory of this alliance member state. However, we hope that this will not be required, and the Syrian crisis will be resolved politically," said Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Secretary General of the North Atlantic Alliance, speaking live on Sky News.

                        and do you think we are afraid? David is deeply mistaken, the same one was in the Cyprus war from far away and that’s all, and where did you get that we’ll attack Syria,
                      8. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 00: 25
                        0
                        where did you get that we will attack Syria


                        Metin. I will only be glad if no one attacks anyone.
                        That the Alawites will stand and everything will be like in the "good old days."
                        Just so that bad thoughts do not go into your head ...
                        "Turkey is a sick man of Europe" Nicholas I
                      9. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 00: 38
                        0
                        David Assad will leave sooner or later will leave, in his country at least 50.000 people died and for his unwillingness to leave
                      10. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 00: 47
                        +2
                        Thank God there are more left alive!
                        Are you sure that the remaining majority wants his departure?
                        It is enough to stop the database, to hold elections - and everything will become clear.
                        But who needs this clarity?
                        among those who started their own clarity, and far from in our favor!
                        So, if Assad is evil, then for us it is the least.
                        For me, those who are fighting there, having come from all over the vast Muslim world, ostensibly for the freedom and independence of "ordinary Syrians" are just a pack of bandits. Mercenaries.
                        Which kills ordinary citizens of Syria.
                        Apparently for their own freedom.
                        Enough of Libya.
                        To the throat.
                        And if you are so good, and you feel sorry for the citizens of Syria, so why do you foster their killers?
                        Groom and cherish?
                        So in one team with them.
                        So I say. Isn't it time to finally implement the Woodrow Wilson Arbitration Award?
                        Ah, Metin ... wink

                        PS And, by the way, I have long wanted to ask. Where are you physically? In Turkey, Georgia, Russia, Azerbaijan? You’re just a Russian flag, but no accent laughing
                      11. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 01: 01
                        -1
                        500.000 Syrian citizens that ran away from Assad also want him, you asked yourself a question?
                        David, you will always look and take pictures of Agra from far away, if it goes so fast you will have no one left there, so return Karabakh so that your people do not seek a better life abroad.
                      12. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 01: 16
                        +2
                        There are already 500.000 ?????
                        Do you have any calculators in Turkey? laughing
                      13. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 01: 21
                        0
                        David 330.000 only in camps and who have the opportunity and relatives abroad, they think there are few. According to some sources only in Turkey there are more than 250.000, and even David I do not laugh at you
                      14. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 01: 30
                        +1
                        Metin.
                        Forgive me my sarcasm.
                        I just have a friend, Hasan. Sunni Syrian. He does business in Moscow. This is a normal business. The elder brother is engaged in marble in the Emirates. In Syria, they have parents and a real estate business. Rather, it was, but thanks to the "liberators" it began to fail seriously. So I know the mood of people. Do you know where the refugees came from?
                        Just rats began to take control of the city. And who does not agree, according to the old tradition, into a common pit.
                        It was from this bloody feast, brewed far from Assad, that people became refugees.
                        Affected.
                        And the sooner the "troublemakers" are thrown out, the better for people.
                        Sunnis, Druze, Alawites, Armenians, Kurds. There are many who live in Syria.
                        And my sarcasm about your "denunciations" against the legitimate Syrian government.
                        These accusations show that we are in different camps.
                        Do you know what Deyr-ez-Zor became famous in 1915-1920?
                      15. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 02: 12
                        0
                        David, your friend, when the peaceful demonstrations began there, also supported Assad?
                      16. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 12: 33
                        0
                        Metin.
                        He did not Assad support and support.
                        He maintains his right to decide how it should be.
                        His right to live in peace, without daily robberies and murders.
                        He just wants to be able to do his job.
                        An ordinary business man, whom, I am sure, is abundant in Turkey.
                        And these "peaceful demonstrations" pull the flow of his life from its usual course and say - everything must change.
                        But why?
                        Why should someone decide this for him, and confront him with a fact?
                      17. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 13: 40
                        0
                        All people want to live in peace and peace without fear of the life of their loved ones, But again, who has rolled the country before? Is not Assad, not his family, But was it worth it?
                      18. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 14: 48
                        +2
                        Metin.
                        That's not the question.
                        The question is that someone is trying to make a revolution.
                        Those. to change the current order in the country in an armed manner.
                        At the same time managing to get trunks somewhere.
                        For example, I do not like the head of my district. I don’t like it so much that I’m ready to go out and take part in the demonstrations of his departure. What periodically happens.
                        But when my companions in my hands appear trunks and we begin to kill the police and seize the buildings of state power, then the rubicon will be passed.
                        There will be no turning back.
                        The question will arise either we or they.
                        As has long been known - The idealists begin the revolution, make the romantics, and use the villains.
                        Look at Libya.
                        The Misurat clan is still "resting on its laurels."
                        The Zintans want their piece of cake.
                        Warfall is just trying to survive.
                        And what did they miss with Gaddafi?
                        He also oppressed them, poor?
                      19. Don
                        Don 29 October 2012 11: 51
                        0
                        Quote: tekinoral
                        500.000 Syrian citizens that ran away from Assad also want him, you asked yourself a question?

                        I see you are good at manipulating numbers. 50 thousand died, 500 thousand refugees. There are official UN data. About 30 thousand dead and 250 thousand refugees.
                      20. mnn_12
                        mnn_12 30 October 2012 14: 35
                        0
                        and for his not wanting to leave

                        ... or for the excessive desire of the United States and its puppets in the region to remove Assad and destroy Syria? Why does Turkey support people who have committed terrorist acts?
                      21. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 25 October 2012 20: 58
                        +1
                        Of particular interest are the stories of Armenian fighters who were raised in search of the missing in June 1993 Avo Monte Melkonyan. In particular, the Armenian mercenary Ashot Mirzoyan shares how they searched for Melkonyan for three days and finally found his decapitated corpse in the village of Muganly.

                        Ashot Mirzoyan writes about this:

                        “Stop speculating on the topic of ABO death!” He was not killed by the aliens from outer space. He died at the hands of our enemies, but he could not ask for mercy from some young Azerbaijani intelligence officer. I am an eyewitness of that event. On June 12, 1993, at about three o'clock in the afternoon, we were alerted. We surrounded the village of Muganly. We searched ABO. Despite our efforts, we were unable to find it. It was found three days later, without a head. He was killed very close by, where his body was found. We do not know how many there were. We found traces of the arrival of Azerbaijani special forces here. They masked the tracks well. But how they got out of the encirclement is still a mystery to us. ”
                        Maybe you Mirzoyan?)))))))))))))))
                        There, a certain Ara Martirosyan tells how his father, a participant in the "national liberation war" in Karabakh, spoke about the death of Avo Monte Melkonyan. In particular, Martirosyan says (spelling and style preserved):
                        “I fought in the Martuni direction. There were hard times. The fate of the Armenians of the Martuni region, and of all Armenians, depended on the hair until Monte Melkonyan appeared in Artsakh. We survived the blogger Avo, expelled all the Turks, we defeated the elite military units of the Azerbaijani army. He was extremely merciless to the cowards-traitors of the Armenian idea. And he himself was always in the forefront. Often one, unaccompanied, went to the liberated villages, and that led to his death.
                        He died in 1993 on June 12 of the previously liberated village of Muganly. Unaccompanied, walking among the ruins of the village, he was killed in very mysterious circumstances. His body was found three days later and was immediately sent to Yerevan. ”
                        And leave these agitation of Armenprom for yourself))))
                        I swear you will behave yourself I’ll tell you where Melkonyan’s head is)))
                      22. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 00: 22
                        0
                        you think to yourself david
                        Of course we don’t want a war, but if he’s living, he’s eating with what he’ll answer, I’m sure, and it’ll not seem enough
                      23. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 00: 38
                        0
                        War you don't want
                        You don't want peace either
                        So what do you want?
                      24. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 00: 44
                        -2
                        we want you to return Karabakh for good
                      25. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 00: 52
                        +3
                        Is that so in a good way?
                      26. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 26 October 2012 01: 07
                        -1
                        I can only laugh at this fictitious map of David .you live with the past people, of course remember the past but look ahead too
                      27. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 26 October 2012 01: 22
                        +1
                        "Those who do not remember their past are doomed to live it again ..."
                      28. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 26 October 2012 07: 50
                        -2
                        Quote: Wanderer1980

                        "Those who do not remember their past are doomed to live it again ..

                        Your boss Shahnazaryan also tried to forget the past and he had to relive it again))))))))))

                        Even more heat added to the material where the Armenian mercenary from the Avo detachment (Melkonyan) confirmed the destruction of Monte Melkonyan in the village of Muganly. We also showed photos and some things taken from Monte Melkonyan. In response, the Armenian agitprop threw its “tin” soldier Levon Melik-Shahnazaryan into battle, who did not even try to refute the facts provided by us, but only tediously accused the Azerbaijani intelligence agent of the inappropriate attitude towards the international terrorist, Monte Melkonyan. But Melik-Shahnazaryan completely wilted after other Azerbaijani fighters told about some details of numerous operations against Monte Melkonyan’s detachment.

                        Details: http://www.1news.az/analytics/20100908021535051.html
                        Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to 1news.az
                      29. Arayikus
                        Arayikus 29 October 2012 09: 52
                        +2
                        Quote: tekinoral

                        we want you to return Karabakh for good

                        will return will return ... And you ask "for good" and we really will return for good. laughing
                      30. Tatarus
                        Tatarus 28 October 2012 23: 32
                        +3
                        The presence of the "formidable" US flags is especially pleasing. Apparently it is against their background and only because of their presence that you are so brave. The Ottomans were Turks, modern ones are not even suitable for "Turchits"
                      31. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 28 October 2012 23: 35
                        -2
                        We’re still as good as we are, apples from the apple tree do not fall far
                      32. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 25 October 2012 21: 06
                        -2
                        Three days — day and night, we searched for the ABO, ”writes another Armenian mercenary, Askanaz Abrahamyan, but cannot understand how Ibad Huseynov’s squad of 14 fighters managed to enter the territory of the Muganly village captured by the Armenians, liquidate Avo and also quietly leave the Armenian encirclement. “We were so stupid that we didn’t notice ... even if they succeeded, where did they evaporate? After all, we, hundreds of fighters, scanned every centimeter of the village several times ”(spelling and style are preserved), - Abrahamyan laments.
                        http://www.rizvanhuseynov.com/
                        Let's bring a specialist and let me prove that this is not the head of the fascist Mekonyan)))
                      33. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 25 October 2012 21: 09
                        -3
                        I remember how they looked when they shouted Avo Avo)))))))))))
                        And he was so close))

                        David is still whose head they sewn to him?)))))
                      34. Wanderer1980
                        Wanderer1980 25 October 2012 23: 16
                        +2
                        Yes crap this photo.
                        Just a fake.
                        So any photo on which you posed against the background of your atrocities can be set and say this to Monte.
                        And why is Ibad next to the stump? Why not Mamed or Omar? )))))))
                        Or Tofig? ))))
                        Someone else's victories are easy to attribute to themselves.
                      35. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 26 October 2012 07: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: Wanderer1980
                        Just a fake.

                        You and other supporters of the Nazis can soothe yourself so))
                        Quote: Wanderer1980
                        and say it to Monte.

                        The fact is that Ibad cut off Monte not only his head but also his hands, so that when you cough up like that there would be evidence))))
                        In addition, Melkonyan’s personal belongings were taken, including photos, documents !!
                        Quote: Wanderer1980
                        And why is Ibad next to the stump?

                        Because it was Ibad who killed this jackal !!))
                      36. Tatarus
                        Tatarus 28 October 2012 23: 36
                        +2
                        "You and other advocates of the fascists can soothe yourself so))" and "The fact is that Ibad cut off Monte not only his head but also his hands, so that when you did this, there would be evidence))))"
                        That is, the Wanderer1980 is a fascist, but you dismembered a person and boast publicly? You are just a professional and honored driver of Venetian boats. Glory to the Creator that in your great people there are such a minority
                      37. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 28 October 2012 23: 40
                        0
                        Have you served with him in the army? What’s on you! Or you weren’t taught to respect!
                      38. Tatarus
                        Tatarus 28 October 2012 23: 48
                        0
                        Where am I with him on you? From the beginning in quotation marks his words, then mine
                      39. tekinoral
                        tekinoral 28 October 2012 23: 53
                        -1
                        sorry those did not notice hi
                      40. Tatarus
                        Tatarus 28 October 2012 23: 56
                        +2
                        And to you peace and your house
                      41. Arayikus
                        Arayikus 29 October 2012 09: 44
                        0
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Ask your boss Levonchik Shahnazaryan))))

                        Oh, and Shakhnazaryan annoyed you, oh, and he smashes your agitprop (Aliyev's "ananerbe") laughing
                  2. Arayikus
                    Arayikus 29 October 2012 09: 41
                    +1
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    already in hell inshallah, like his battalion of mercenaries, international terrorists!

                    since when is Manvel in hell? Did he die? When?
                    and you with such knowledge about the war and their participants here are ill? Manvel is still alive, but your mercenaries and national heroes Basaev and Raduev are really in hell. can you write about them, and, expert on the death of Monte? hi
      3. Jin
        Jin 24 October 2012 16: 21
        +3
        Quote: Leha e-mine
        Yes, there are a lot of ways, the most painful to equip the Kurds with MANPADS or ATGMs, using various other weapons to help them with instructors, and then it will be shorter than mine will be worse than SYRIA.

        Yeah, I wrote about the same thing in another post) Oh, how NATO does not like strong enemy air defense !!! They have all the tactics immediately breaks to hell!
      4. Lesorub
        Lesorub 25 October 2012 23: 08
        0
        "Tough response" implies - a furious blow to the armed forces and their infrastructure ...
    2. bairat
      bairat 24 October 2012 08: 47
      +27
      Enough to restrict entry to tourists. This measure alone will leave half the population of Turkey unemployed.
      1. Pit
        Pit 24 October 2012 09: 28
        +6
        Well yes. And shut off the gas. Iran will definitely block.
      2. albanec
        albanec 24 October 2012 09: 36
        +15
        Right! There is such a wonderful person in our country by the name of Onishchenko who, suddenly, sees some dangerous bacilus and a mustache! Hana Ottomans laughing
        1. Chemist
          Chemist 24 October 2012 10: 06
          +15
          Turkey supplies a lot of vegetables, fruits, etc. to the Russian market. Mr. Onishchenko, if necessary, will find the infection for sure, for example wax with which the fruits are processed is not edible. If I am not mistaken, then the vegetable market in Turkey is much more than tourist.
          1. King
            King 24 October 2012 10: 57
            +4
            You are right Mr. Onishchenko is the secret weapon of Russia!
            1. Bort radist
              Bort radist 24 October 2012 12: 10
              +3
              Quote: King
              Mr. Onishchenko is the secret weapon of Russia!

              Biological!
            2. tekinoral
              tekinoral 24 October 2012 18: 53
              -3
              MONTREO CONFERENCE 1936
        2. Simon
          Simon 24 October 2012 21: 35
          0
          For example, "Turkish fever" and all tourists will go to Greece. laughing
          1. tekinoral
            tekinoral 24 October 2012 21: 39
            -2
            for example, a storm or fog in the Bosphorus and all ships in Novorossiysk are waiting for a weather correction
      3. Hon
        Hon 24 October 2012 10: 28
        +1
        And what do you mean by the restriction of entry (exit)? How to achieve this?
        1. bairat
          bairat 24 October 2012 10: 39
          +8
          In a state with manual control, such issues are resolved at a time. The same onishchenko will announce the appearance in Turkey of an unknown infection, for example, and that's all, quarantine.
          1. grizzlir
            grizzlir 24 October 2012 11: 04
            +1
            Quote: bairat
            The same onishchenko will announce the appearance in Turkey of an unknown infection, for example, and that's all, quarantine.
            I wrote the same thing below. Yes, the measures of influence in Russia with objectionable countries have been worked out and everyone knows laughing
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 24 October 2012 11: 11
              +4
              Quote: grizzlir
              impact measures in Russia with objectionable countries have been worked out and everyone knows

              And this is not bad, any means are suitable in the fight against external threats, and only an open clash should be left for "appetizer", as the last "argument in a dispute."
          2. Hon
            Hon 24 October 2012 12: 29
            +1
            Do you mean to ban the transport of products from Turkey? It is strange that so far nothing has been found, I imagine a shortage of fruit in supermarkets)))
        2. Gecko
          Gecko 24 October 2012 10: 49
          +3
          To take an additional large insurance fee, you never know what can happen to tourists in this troubled region. There are many ways explicit and implicit and technology to make unpopular holidays in Turkey. To sharpen in the media all accidents that occurred in Turkey to embellish them, etc.
          1. Hon
            Hon 24 October 2012 13: 30
            -1
            Only insurance fees are not regulated by the state. And insurance companies will not raise them on their own.
            1. Havoc
              Havoc 24 October 2012 16: 26
              0
              ,
              Quote: Hon
              Only insurance fees are not regulated by the state. And insurance companies will not raise them on their own.


              You tell this to the businessmen who wanted to "fight" with the state, where they are and where their business is. They will only give a hint and they will raise everything as it should.
    3. King
      King 24 October 2012 08: 50
      +3
      The introduction of peacekeepers into Syria.
      1. Nick
        Nick 24 October 2012 19: 27
        +1
        Quote: King
        The introduction of peacekeepers into Syria.

        I think this is an extreme measure when others are no longer enough. Risking the lives of their soldiers is necessary only as a last resort.
    4. peter-tank
      peter-tank 24 October 2012 08: 52
      +1
      From this perspective, the "Mediterranean cruises" of our BDK in summer no longer seem so mysterious and incomprehensible.
    5. Goga
      Goga 24 October 2012 09: 02
      +2
      Cesar_001 - Colleague, why is it so immediately "open intervention"? It's just the threat to turn off the gas tap (and now it will be winter in Turkey too) and all the "interference" - hurry will be diminished immediately, war-war, and the economy dictates its own ...
    6. freedom
      freedom 24 October 2012 10: 36
      0
      Hang in one place. smile
    7. FREGATENKAPITAN
      FREGATENKAPITAN 24 October 2012 10: 47
      +14
      EVERYTHING MUCH EASIER..RUSSION IS BOYCATING TURKISH RESORTS AND PUTS EMBARGO ON TURKISH GOODS-
      TOTAL TURKISH ECONOMY DURING COUPLES OF MONTHS COLLAPSED PLUS MASS SPEECHES CAUSED BY THE LOSS OF TENS OF THOUSAND WORKPLACES ............................. AND ALL RETURNS TO THEIR CIRCLES .....................
      AMERICANS DO NOT RIDE ANTALYA ......................
      1. Lucky
        Lucky 24 October 2012 13: 40
        +2
        It seems to me better to arm the Kurds, then the funeral will go and the people will rebel, and put the S-300 in Syria
      2. Melchakov
        Melchakov 29 October 2012 20: 20
        -1
        FREGATENKAPITAN,
        And also shut off the gas pipeline and ...
        Quote: Lucky
        Kurds to arm ...
    8. ariy_t
      ariy_t 24 October 2012 13: 05
      -1
      The Turks, in Russia, have their own business ... For example, whose AUCHAN? Plus all kinds of knitwear shops ... Well, there’s a lot more ... fellow And then what will Putin decide? laughing
    9. Forget
      Forget 24 October 2012 13: 58
      0
      Quote: Cesar_001
      what will Putin decide

      he orders all travel agencies not to sell tickets ...
    10. Fidain
      Fidain 24 October 2012 16: 57
      +2
      Georgians also asked this question! the answer is clearly not very pleasant)
  5. kostyan77708
    kostyan77708 24 October 2012 08: 40
    +6
    Well, judging by the fact that the S-400 is closer to the border of Turkey, they’ll decide on something! it’s too late to pass the back, I hope and will not give up.
    1. markevo
      markevo 24 October 2012 15: 28
      0
      I agree..
  6. Che
    Che 24 October 2012 08: 41
    +2
    Erdogan, like a year ago, sharply opposes the “regime” of Bashar al-Assad and calls on the Western countries to overthrow him.

    And without this, Assad would have left after the election. No amers started a war with the allies.
    1. Pit
      Pit 24 October 2012 09: 32
      +3
      As a result of the election, the same people as Assad could have come to power, and if a war was organized, then the authorities would not be there for a long time, and Syria is the gateway to Iran. They essentially do not need Syria, there is little oil, but it is in Iran. So they are torn.
  7. Pula
    Pula 24 October 2012 08: 51
    0
    There was a conversation, there was no conversation ... Erdogan wants to show Turkey, independent and caring for the life of people in Syria during further disassembly with Kurdistan. The attention of the world was diverted to Syria, and they themselves ... On hegemony - the Turks know the history of the Ottoman Empire well and do not want to lose the secular nature of power.
  8. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 24 October 2012 08: 55
    +1
    Oleg is a hammer. I enjoyed the article. drinks
  9. ism_ek
    ism_ek 24 October 2012 08: 55
    -3
    Don't underestimate Turkey. Turkey is 75 million people. Turkey's GDP is only 40% lower than the Russian one and is growing at a much faster pace than the Russian one. Turkey is growing at 8% a year. By the end of Putin’s term, our GDP can equal, but in Turkey there is no oil and gas ..... Tourism in Turkey’s GDP structure is less than 10%.
    Turks therefore behave so boldly ...
    1. urzul
      urzul 24 October 2012 09: 12
      +19
      Russian GDP by MSS 2376.470 billion $
      Turkish GDP by MSS 1054.560 billion $

      Russian GDP growth in 2011year 4,1%
      Turkish GDP growth in 2011year 8%

      Given the difference in growth, they will be able to catch up with us no earlier than in 20 years, but given their public debt:

      Turkish public debt is 58,2% of GDP (2007) and it is growing annually.

      Tourism in Turkey's GDP structure is less than 10%.
      But there is one BUT, half of the economically active population is employed in it.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 October 2012 09: 20
        +3
        laughing
        And when I write my comments?
      2. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 24 October 2012 11: 48
        0
        Thank you for your comment, thoroughly, convincingly, and without the "pioneer dawn" in the rear hemisphere. ++
      3. dimanf
        dimanf 24 October 2012 12: 08
        -1
        and if you count the GDP per capita?

        Russia's external public debt to 2016 year could grow to $ 84 billion

        MOSCOW, September 18. The Ministry of Finance of Russia predicts that the upper limit of the state external debt of the Russian Federation as of January 1, 2014 will be $ 66,2 billion (53 billion euros). This is stated in the draft federal law "On the federal budget for 2013 and for the planning period of 2014 and 2015".

        At the same time, the upper limit of the state external debt of the Russian Federation as of January 1, 2015 is expected to be $ 75,8 billion (60,6 billion euros), and as of January 1, 2016 - $ 83,8 billion (67 billion euros).

        At 1 August 2012, the external public debt of the Russian Federation amounted to $ 41,3 billion (33,6 billion euros).

        In addition, the Ministry of Finance proposes to establish the upper limit of the state internal debt of the Russian Federation on January 1, 2014 in the amount of 6,569 trillion rubles, on January 1, 2015 - in the amount of 7,503 trillion rubles and on January 1, 2016 - 8,127 trillion rubles.
        More details: http://www.rosbalt.ru/business/2012/09/18/1035693.html

        In addition to external debt, there are external debts of corporations, among which are dominated by companies controlled by the state, such as Gazprom and Rosneft. Taking into account corporate debts, Russia's total external debt now exceeds the foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank - about $ 512 billion
        1. urzul
          urzul 24 October 2012 12: 30
          +4
          At 1 August 2012, the external public debt of the Russian Federation amounted to $ 41,3 billion (33,6 billion euros).

          Russian government debt on October 1 2011 $ 51,9 billion

          What is the trend?
          In addition to external debt, there are external debts of corporations
          Only the capitalization level of the structures you just named is almost 350 billion $ /
          But in Turkey, no one except the government takes? Is it possible to call at least one of these companies bankrupt? at least in perspective.

          Russia's external public debt to 2016 year could grow to $ 84 billion
          And still, it does not exceed a healthy level in 20%
          1. dimanf
            dimanf 24 October 2012 13: 05
            -2
            Quote: urzul
            Only the capitalization level of the structures you just named is almost 350 billion $ /


            capitalization is a slippery thing.
            remember how she collapsed in a crisis.
            and your 350billion are virtual. but it will be necessary to give real ones.

            And still, it does not exceed a healthy level in 20%
            why don’t you consider the internal public debt?
            1. urzul
              urzul 24 October 2012 13: 16
              +2
              Let’s mix everything together and my loans in a heap, you are already trying to appeal with what abstract things.
              capitalization is a slippery thing.
              remember how she collapsed in a crisis.
              and your 350billion are virtual. but it will be necessary to give real ones.
              So you personally make a forecast that in the next 10-20 years they will go bankrupt?
              1. dimanf
                dimanf 24 October 2012 18: 06
                -1
                Quote: urzul
                So you personally make a forecast that in the next 10-20 years they will go bankrupt?


                do not distort, please.
                here is the value of Gazprom shares for 5 years
                2007 - 286 rubles.
                2008 - 352 rubles.
                2009 - 101 rubles.
                2010 - 194 rubles.
                2011 - 195 rubles.
                July 2012 - 155 rubles.

                here it is your capitalization.
                you just breed demagoguery. manipulating numbers.
                1. urzul
                  urzul 25 October 2012 09: 39
                  +3
                  And in 2004 it cost 88 rubles
                  200 cost 14 rubles
                  Do you have any idea of ​​market correction?
                  If not, do not make stupid predictions. After such a take-off, all analysts expected a depreciation, this is predictable.
                  1. dimanf
                    dimanf 25 October 2012 10: 18
                    -3
                    Quote: urzul
                    If not, do not make stupid predictions.


                    Did I make predictions?
                    do not engage in verbiage.
                    the question was about the real debts of corporations!
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 October 2012 14: 34
              +4
              oh my god, let's count ALL loans - state external, private external and the same, only internal.
              Just do not forget to then calculate the same thing in other countries of the golden billion. And Turkey. and understand that there is absolutely nothing to talk about.
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 October 2012 14: 37
          +2
          Quote: dimanf
          In addition to external debt, there are external debts of corporations, among which are dominated by companies controlled by the state, such as Gazprom and Rosneft. Taking into account corporate debts, Russia's total external debt now exceeds the foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank - about $ 512 billion

          So what? The total debt, private (for which the state generally does not answer) and the state debt of the Russian Federation and 50% is not gained. Now look at other countries of the same Europe, where 70-80% of STATE external debt alone is normal :)))
          1. dimanf
            dimanf 24 October 2012 18: 09
            -1
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            So what? The total debt, private (for which the state generally does not answer) and the state debt of the Russian Federation and 50% is not gained. Now look at other countries of the same Europe, where 70-80% of STATE external debt alone is normal :)))


            We are now comparing Russia and Turkey.
            the state is responsible for the external debts of state corporations.
            but didn’t forget about internal debt?
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 October 2012 09: 19
      +4
      Quote: ism_ek
      Turkey is 75 million. Turkey's GDP is only 40% lower than Russian

      Mixed up. Turkey's GDP is 40% of Russian.
      Quote: ism_ek
      Turkey is growing at 8% year.

      Basically - due to the services sector, in Turkey’s GDP in the 2000s it grew from 51% to 60%.
      Quote: ism_ek
      By the end of Putin’s term, our GDP can equal

      Lost to calculate the growth rate of the Russian economy? :))) With the current growth rates of the economies of the Russian Federation and Turkey, and provided that Turkey can continue to increase GDP at the rate of 8% (which is completely unrealistic), it will catch up with the Russian Federation in years 25
    3. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 October 2012 10: 12
      +7
      Quote: ism_ek
      Turkey’s GDP is only 40% lower than the Russian one and growing at a much faster rate than the Russian

      While Tagil rules, Turkey’s GDP is growing, tourism is ending - Turkey is ending
    4. bootlegger
      bootlegger 24 October 2012 12: 53
      0
      Turkey’s GDP is 1053 billion, and Russia’s 2373 billion in 11, which is only 44% of the Russian Federation. Even according to the CIA fact book According to the World Bank it turns out at all 39% ....
  10. escapes
    escapes 24 October 2012 09: 03
    +3
    It is interesting, if you introduce a complete ban on Russian citizens visiting Turkey, how quickly people will raise Erdogan with hostility))?
    1. UzRus
      UzRus 24 October 2012 09: 17
      0
      Did anyone ask citizens for an opinion?
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 24 October 2012 10: 39
        +4
        Quote: UzRus
        Did anyone ask citizens for an opinion?

        And did anyone ask Turkish citizens whether to get into Syrian affairs or not? To support or not to support anti-Syrian fighters?
        1. UzRus
          UzRus 24 October 2012 11: 31
          +2
          tan0472, with my question, I had in mind that would Russian tourists be able to take right away and immediately refuse to go to Turkish resorts? The service there is normal, paths are trodden, everything can be said as usual. And then - once! You can’t ride, forbid. Well, and travel agencies specializing in holidays in Turkey will burn out.
          1. tan0472
            tan0472 24 October 2012 12: 03
            +9
            Quote: UzRus
            Well, and travel agencies specializing in holidays in Turkey will burn out.

            And x .. with them. But they will begin to develop the domestic tourism industry. Take my word for it - not a single Russian will die without Turkey.
    2. Saracen
      Saracen 24 October 2012 09: 34
      -4
      Favorite and protected by the "uncle VVP" "South Stream" and "Blue Streams" pass through Turkish territory. They hardly forgot about it.
      Gas blackmail, apart from losses and loss of customers, as well as trust, will bring nothing to Russia. Gas disputes with Ukraine and Belarus forced Europe to seek alternative suppliers.
      So this telephone conversation is designed for the Russian electorate, about how cool "uncle VVP" is.
      1. urzul
        urzul 24 October 2012 09: 48
        +18
        Favorite and protected by the "uncle VVP" "South Stream" and "Blue Streams" pass through Turkish territory.


        There is no South Stream yet, the more it can pass in the economic zone of Ukraine (they cannot block the underwater pipeline, and even more so they cannot pump gas from it)
        And what Turk will redraw the Blue Stream !? For your information, this is a pipeline to Turkey itself.
        So this telephone conversation is designed for the Russian electorate, about how cool "uncle VVP" is.
        Only now it was originally published in the Turkish media.
        1. Saracen
          Saracen 24 October 2012 10: 12
          -9
          By the way, Bulgaria also advocates or hints against the South Stream, this time.
          Secondly, what year’s map, because it changed several times, and they moved to Turkish territory to bypass Ukrainian.
          1. urzul
            urzul 24 October 2012 10: 20
            +7
            Both projects exist, construction has not begun yet.
            In case of failure, Turkey will be built in the economic zone of Ukraine.
            Moreover, it is not Ukraine that Turkey will not be able to and will not want to somehow influence the already constructed gas pipeline, since half it belongs to Germany, Italy and France.
            Map from the South Stream website.
            Bulgaria left the project in 2009, but then changed its mind
            On October 22 On October 2010, Gazprom and the Bulgarian Energy Holding EAD signed an Agreement on the feasibility study of the Bulgarian section of the South Stream gas pipeline.

            On November 13 On November 2010, Gazprom and the Bulgarian Energy Holding signed the Shareholder Agreement and the Charter of the joint project company South Stream Bulgaria AD for the implementation of the South Stream project in the Republic of Bulgaria.
            1. dimanf
              dimanf 24 October 2012 11: 09
              0
              But will they build a southern stream?
              because the northern ones are still not filled.
              1. urzul
                urzul 24 October 2012 11: 16
                +5
                8 October 2012 g. | Portovaya Bay, Russia | Today, 30 months after the start of construction, the gas pipeline Nord Stream began supplying gas through two lines. The project was implemented on schedule and on budget. A professional team of specialists from different countries worked around the clock on laying pipes with a total weight of 4 million tons in difficult weather conditions.

                Matthias Warnig, Managing Director of Nord Stream AG: “We are proud of the excellent results that have been achieved thanks to the dedicated work of every Nord Stream employee, the support of our shareholders, suppliers and contractors from all over the world.”

                Today, the second string of the Nord Stream gas pipeline has officially been commissioned as part of a single integrated gas transmission system. Up to 55 billion cubic meters of natural gas can be supplied annually through the new gas pipeline for at least 50 years. Gas transportation to Europe along the first line began in November 2011.

                Gerhard Schroeder, Chairman of the Nord Stream AG Shareholder Committee: Nord Stream is undoubtedly one of the most advanced gas transmission systems and can provide reliable natural gas supplies from the richest fields in the Russian North directly to European markets. Today we can say: the system is ready for delivery. ”

                The solemn ceremony of starting gas deliveries via two lines was held today on the Russian coast of the Baltic Sea near Portovaya Bay in the presence of representatives of European countries and shareholders of Nord Stream. The gas valve was opened from the control center of the Portovaya compressor station, which is capable of creating pressures up to 220 bar. This is enough to transport gas without intermediate compression over the entire distance of 1224 km along the bottom of the Baltic Sea to the entrance to the European gas transmission network in the city of Lubmin on the Baltic coast in Germany.

                The route of both lines of the gas pipeline was planned in detail and agreed with nine countries of the Baltic Sea during international consultations, which lasted four years. The results of environmental monitoring confirm that the environmental impact of the gas pipeline construction was minimal.

                Matthias Warnig added: “I am pleased to announce that we have implemented this large-scale infrastructure project on schedule and on budget. Among other European gas transmission projects, Nord Stream is, of course, an outstanding achievement, a new benchmark in all aspects - design, construction, environmental and technical safety, and operation. ”
                1. dimanf
                  dimanf 24 October 2012 11: 34
                  -5
                  Quote: urzul
                  Up to 55 billion cubic meters of natural gas can be supplied annually through the new gas pipeline for at least 50 years. Gas transportation to Europe along the first line began in November 2011.


                  in my opinion there are no new contracts for downloading this stream.
                  gas will be stupidly redistributed.
                  there will be no additional income.
                  there will only be a lever of pressure on the Ukrainians.
                  1. urzul
                    urzul 24 October 2012 11: 52
                    +5
                    It was created to ensure the independence of transit
                    1. dimanf
                      dimanf 24 October 2012 12: 13
                      -5
                      Quote: urzul
                      It was created to ensure the independence of transit


                      It was created to reduce the cost of gas for German companies!
                      1. urzul
                        urzul 24 October 2012 12: 34
                        0
                        Where did you read such nonsense?
                        The project involves Russia, Germany, Holland and France; against its implementation were the transit countries of Russian gas and the Baltic countries. The objectives of the project are to increase gas supplies to the European market and reduce dependence on transit countries.
                      2. dimanf
                        dimanf 24 October 2012 13: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: urzul

                        Where did you read such nonsense?


                        there will be no transiters in the first place for the Germans.
                        then gas will be cheaper.
                        simple arithmetic.
                      3. urzul
                        urzul 24 October 2012 13: 17
                        +3
                        there will be no transiters in the first place for the Germans.
                        then gas will be cheaper.
                        simple arithmetic.
                        Simple logic suggests a reduction in political risks. If you wrote that Gas comes under old contracts, then what kind of savings are we talking about? The cost has long been registered, and if anyone saves, it’s us
                      4. dimanf
                        dimanf 24 October 2012 18: 24
                        -3
                        Quote: urzul
                        Simple logic suggests a reduction in political risks. If you wrote that Gas comes under old contracts, then what kind of savings are we talking about? The cost has long been registered, and if anyone saves, it’s us


                        gas prices and transit are spelled out in different articles.
                        Germans do not have to pay the same Ukrainians.
                      5. urzul
                        urzul 25 October 2012 09: 29
                        +2
                        Germans do not have to pay the same hoh lamas.
                        So, you just say that it makes no difference to Germany, since it does not pay for transit, but it has become cheaper because the transit has fallen in price? Excuse me, are you not wandering around now?
                      6. dimanf
                        dimanf 25 October 2012 10: 25
                        -1
                        where exactly did I say that.
                        quote please.

                        how can you juggle.
                        payment for transit to Ukraine disappeared from the price of German gas. [
          2. Don
            Don 24 October 2012 15: 13
            +1
            Quote: Saracen
            By the way, Bulgaria also advocates or hints against the South Stream, this time.

            This is not once or twice.
            January 18, 2008 - Russia and Bulgaria signed an agreement on the participation of the latter in the project. The Bulgarian segment will be 50% owned by the national company Bulgargaz and 50% Russia.
            February 29, 2012 - a working visit of a delegation of Gazprom led by Chairman of the Management Committee Alexei Miller to the Republic of Bulgaria took place. During the visit, Alexey Miller met with Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov and Bulgarian Economy, Energy and Tourism Minister Traicho Traikov. The negotiators discussed current issues of Russian-Bulgarian energy cooperation. [33] In March this year, South Stream Bulgaria AD will summarize the results of an open tender for the selection of contractors for territorial planning, environmental impact assessment and preparation of project documentation for a gas pipeline section in Bulgaria. [34]
      2. Bashkaus
        Bashkaus 24 October 2012 11: 46
        +8
        I don’t know if Uncle Vova is really cool, but the fact that he doesn’t eat ties is a fact;)
      3. SergeySK
        SergeySK 24 October 2012 18: 35
        +2
        Saracen,

        Gas disputes with Ukraine and theft of gas by the same Ukraine shit only Ukraine!

        And it made Europe tighter to agree to the northern and southern streams just not to mess with this nonsense!
  11. Blat
    Blat 24 October 2012 09: 03
    -19
    if at least one Turkish soldier ................. so what next? what will Russia do? and nothing will be done. PR for .........
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 24 October 2012 09: 12
      +5
      Well, what will he do? They called friends in Bon. They promised something. What do we supply to Germany except gas?
      The German minister traveled to Turkey and made an impression to the Turks. Sit for now, do not rock the boat.
    2. UzRus
      UzRus 24 October 2012 09: 22
      +19
      BlatWell, in August 2008, hardly anyone could have imagined that Russia would behave this way ...
      1. Blat
        Blat 24 October 2012 09: 46
        -17
        Turkey is not Georgia. Do you think Russia is ready for losses of at least 50 thousand people at the most favorable development of events? That is, not escalating into a larger global conflict. That is, a scenario where Russia itself will not be attacked. These women’s tales can be told to students in grade 7 that all can be defeated.
        1. tan0472
          tan0472 24 October 2012 10: 44
          +13
          Quote: blat
          Turkey is not Georgia. Do you think Russia is ready for losses of at least 50 thousand people with the most favorable development of events.

          Do you really think that Turkey will fight with Russia defending US interests? And lose 90% of the population and 100% of the contaminated territory for the sake of the prospect of causing Russia losses "at least 50 thousand people with the most favorable development of events"?
          1. Beck
            Beck 24 October 2012 11: 19
            +2
            Quote: tan0472
            Do you really think that Turkey will fight with Russia defending US interests? And lose 90% of the population and 100% of the contaminated territory for the sake of the prospect of causing Russia losses


            In this scenario, the whole world will be infected. Neither Russia, nor Turkey, nor the United States will commit such a suicide. There will be no military conflict between Turkey and Russia.
            1. tan0472
              tan0472 24 October 2012 12: 07
              +3
              Quote: Beck
              In this scenario, the whole world will be infected. Neither Russia, nor Turkey, nor the United States will commit such a suicide. There will be no military clash Turkey - Russia

              I proceeded from the blat fantasy that Russia will lose at least 50 thousand people. What kind of war should there be with such losses? I think nothing "helluva lot" terrible will happen. They will "settle down", one way or another.
          2. Blat
            Blat 24 October 2012 18: 29
            -1
            you know what the charm of yao is, and that it cannot be used against those who possess it, but NATO possesses it. trying to use yao against such an enemy is suicide. and therefore these forces, that is, yao are called deterrence forces. so these hysterical statements You can turn into a pipe and torpedo yourself. Turkey has half a million soldiers. Russia should resort to mobilization resources in case of war with it. WHO IS READY TO JOIN VOLUNTEERS?
            1. alexng
              alexng 24 October 2012 23: 50
              +1
              That you all have spread to hostilities. Russia has other leverage over Turkey and is more effective and sobering to any military influence. America has calmed down with its desire to start a war with Iran.
              1. tekinoral
                tekinoral 25 October 2012 00: 20
                +1
                Do you think they are not in Turkey?
            2. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 26 October 2012 20: 41
              +1
              Quote: blat
              In the event of a war with Russia, Russia must resort to mobilization resources.

              I read that after the lessons that Nakhimov taught the Turks, the Turkish constitution prescribed "not to fight with Russia."

              Does anyone supplement or refute what has been said?
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 26 October 2012 20: 46
                -1
                Supplement, Bismarck on the war with Russia: Never fight with the Russians ...........
        2. UzRus
          UzRus 24 October 2012 11: 38
          +6
          Turkey is not Georgia. - Absolutely correct remark. But at the same time, do not forget what kind of support to Georgia (financial, military) was provided by the penal forces and NATO.
        3. Bashkaus
          Bashkaus 24 October 2012 11: 52
          +8
          Correctly say, Turkey is not Georgia! And Russia is Russia.
          We don’t care what plane to lift on the wing: Su-25, Tu-22 or Tu-160. As the saying goes, we will console everyone.
          1. Arayikus
            Arayikus 31 October 2012 22: 09
            0
            wonderful post!
        4. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 24 October 2012 12: 29
          +8
          Sinop, Chesma, Ishmael, Crimea, Ochakov, Shipka .... The liberation of the Balkans, Suvorov, Minih, Skobelev ....................... etc . etc.
          Always and at all times, Russia beat the Turks on land and at sea, despite the fact that it was strong at that moment .......... And England and France were always on the side of the Turks ....... ............................
          1. Blat
            Blat 24 October 2012 18: 32
            0
            Well, not always. The Turks beat you too. Or can the Nakhimov just drown the fleet?
            1. FREGATENKAPITAN
              FREGATENKAPITAN 25 October 2012 09: 19
              0
              Well, remind me! ........... And maybe we will not dissemble? The United Anglo_Franco_Turkish army and navy invaded the Crimea .... and the Turks were only there in the wings ........
              You either don’t know the story. Or just troll ..........
              And the fleet did not drown the great admiral, but flooded at the entrance to the Sevastopol Bay (I thought for everyone it is obvious for what purpose ..........
              Yes, the same fleet that a couple of months (I don’t remember exactly how many ... not fundamentally) defeated the Turkish fleet and Sinop fortress back to the last ....
              Well, for the sake of justice, you could give an example of the Prutny defeat of Peter 1 ...... but apparently for you this is a great secret ............
              1. Nubia2
                Nubia2 27 October 2012 12: 39
                0
                Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
                flooded at the entrance to the Sevastopol Bay (I thought it was obvious to everyone for what purpose

                but wonder why such a brilliant purpose was flooded without a single shot the fleet in the Sevastopol Bay?
                1. Blat
                  Blat 28 October 2012 11: 42
                  0
                  so that the Turks don’t get it. and this is extreme. if it can be called a victory, then I'm sorry))))))))))
            2. mnn_12
              mnn_12 29 October 2012 23: 25
              0
              It was possible and there were Turkish victories, but if you look at the extreme result, then always Russia was ahead. Look at the maps from the beginning of the 18th and from the end of the 18th century. Look at the maps from the beginning and end of the 19th century. And in Turkey in the 20th century after the First World War everything was less or less normal - they did not fight Russia.
              Turkey cannot be a great force of life for one elementary reason - there are no developed autonomous military-industrial complex, there is no intellectual and personnel potential for this. It can only be a satellite and a puppet in the hands of Western forces - they supply weapons and some obsolete military technology. Now, for example, Turkey will do all the dirty work in Syria in the name of its Western and Zionist rulers.
        5. Don
          Don 24 October 2012 15: 25
          +4
          Quote: blat
          Russia is ready for losses of at least 50 thousand people with the most favorable development

          Oh come on, only without these forecasts it’s not clear where they came from. What are 50 thousand? For how long?
          Quote: blat
          these women’s tales can be told to students in grade 7 that everyone can be defeated.

          This applies to your comments.
          1. Blat
            Blat 24 October 2012 18: 35
            -1
            Well, yes, you soak everything in contrast. Turkey has an army half the size of the Russian one and they are located not bad. ))))))))))
            1. Don
              Don 25 October 2012 13: 11
              +3
              Quote: blat
              Well, yes, you soak everyone in contra.

              From this comment it’s clear that you’re still a kid.
              Quote: blat
              Turkey has an army half the size of the Russian and they are located well.

              Well located. laughing Do you understand with your own little mind what it is like to transfer serious troops from the 1st Field Army on the border of Bulgaria and Greece, and from the 4th Field Army in the west to the east to the border with Georgia ?! How much time and effort is needed? With a small number of transport aircraft in the Turkish Air Force. And what to throw? Junk in the form of tanks M60?
              Quote: blat
              Now I wonder how you will attack them? By the forces of the Black Sea Fleet?

              If it would have been really interesting, I would have thought about it. And the Black Sea Fleet, and strategic aviation, and the Air Force USC South and USC West (you can tighten). Theoretically, in the event of the outbreak of hostilities, if necessary, through Georgia, ground forces can strike.
              1. Blat
                Blat 28 October 2012 11: 46
                -2
                Bulgaria and Greece are valuable NATO, and in case of aggression against Turkey, they will be obliged to help them, and not you, in spite of tension. Do you have your own troops, so that the Turks do not sniff out anything? Or maybe in Russia the troops are always concentrated at one point? adult))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                1. Don
                  Don 2 November 2012 12: 16
                  0
                  Quote: blat
                  Bulgaria and Greece are valued by NATO, and in case of aggression against Turkey, they, despite the tension, will be obliged to help them, not you.

                  And here they are members of NATO? I am writing to you about the inability to transfer significant forces in a short time from the west of Turkey to the east, because Turkey has a small number of military transport aircraft. And Bulgaria and Greece absolutely do not care about the geopolitical ambitions of Turkey, they have enough of their own economic concerns.
                  Quote: blat
                  their own troops as a spillover so that the Turks do not sniff out anything?

                  Quote: blat
                  or maybe in Russia the troops are always concentrated at one point?

                  The mind cannot understand what nonsense you write. What is one point? You seem to think in the armed forces on strategies.
                  During the afternoon, in the USC South, to strengthen the 4th command of the Air Force and Air Defense, you can send the Su-34, Su-24, MiG-29, Su-27. Strategic aircraft cruise missiles in a day can strike. There is also a military base in Armenia. Turkish Air Force is not so strong. They have to confront the S-300, Tor air defense systems and the Osa air defense systems in Armenia and Abkhazia, as well as the Russian Air Force. Turkey's air defense is weak. These are obsolete medium-range air defense systems MIM-14 Nike-Hercules and short-range air defense systems "Rapier".
      2. volcano
        volcano 24 October 2012 09: 55
        +15
        UzRus,

        Colleague..there are two very big differences, do not you find?

        Turkey, unlike Georgia, is a member of NATO .... so there can be no talk of a military confrontation ..
        Rather, it is necessary to consider the economic and commodity leverage, well, plus assistance to Syria with weapons and possibly people (advisers), and maybe not only them.
        1. Fox 070
          Fox 070 24 October 2012 11: 18
          +3
          Quote: volkan
          Rather, economic and commodity leverage should be considered,

          That's right, Andrey! Moreover, with regard to Turkey, these levers have a fairly powerful impact. yes
        2. UzRus
          UzRus 24 October 2012 11: 21
          +1
          Turkey, unlike Georgia, is a member of NATO .... so there can be no talk of a military confrontation .. - yeah, something I didn’t think about ...
          1. wax
            wax 24 October 2012 13: 34
            0
            The main thing is not membership, but the presence of aggression, so that 51st Art. UN Charter.
        3. Bashkaus
          Bashkaus 24 October 2012 11: 58
          +3
          C'mon expelled?
          Damn, is it really not interesting for anyone to touch NATO for an udder?
          I don’t believe it, let's honestly admit that we are just very scared but at the same time very interesting (((
    3. vorobey
      vorobey 24 October 2012 09: 43
      +10
      Quote: blat
      but will do nothing. PR for .........


      Precisely for Gazprom. Goga is right. The price of gas for Turkey in the winter will skyrocket or even the pipe will break and the Turks will become more accommodating at the moment. Openly intervene and not worth it. A map of the Kurds that they began to play better than Russian intervention will be.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 24 October 2012 10: 15
        +4
        Quote: vorobey
        or even the pipe breaks

        Sanya what are you? But what about denyuzhki? Who will break it, it brings income ..... to someone
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 24 October 2012 10: 37
          +7
          Quote: Vadivak
          Who will break it, it brings income


          Vadim hello. denyuzhka denyuzhku interrupts. if Syria falls, we will lose even more. Already considered options for Qatar and the Saudis on gas pipelines. The Strait of Hormuz is still a weak link, and everyone understands this no matter how they roam. No wonder the herds of American ships graze there. The whole game because of this and started in order to oust Russia.
          so it’s better to break the pipe for a while than lose it altogether. donate usually small. or I'm wrong.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 24 October 2012 10: 59
            +4
            Quote: vorobey
            Hello vadim

            And you Sasha can’t get sick,
            Quote: vorobey
            if Syria falls, we will lose even more.

            Do you understand what you’re saying now, not as a shred of Gazprom, but as a statesman? (moon-faced and diamond-like)
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 24 October 2012 11: 21
              +10
              Quote: Vadivak
              (moon-faced and diamond-like)


              Vadim, you’re not Snack to pull my words and hunch me.
              Gazprom is the same part of government policy as Rosneft and Rosatom and so on.
              Let's analyze some of the statements and comments.

              REGNUM news agency, citing the Turkish newspaper Aydinlik, reproduces the recent telephone dialogue between Putin and Erdogan, as if stenographed:

              - If at least one Turkish soldier crosses the Syrian border, Russia will react very hard.
              - This is a threat? For us, this is unacceptable.
              - Think as you wish, I said my word.


              note with reference to the Turkish edition. there was a conversation - it was not important. but if the Turks themselves want to be, then inside Turkish society there is disagreement with Erdogan’s policy regarding Syria.

              Hypothetically, we assume that the conversation took place.

              what will our answer? The Turks strive to become a full member of the European Union, and Germany is a key player there, plus from the revenues of Gazprom and the Germans receive income because they have shares. and first of all

              Quote: ism_ek
              Well, what will he do? They called friends in Bon. They promised something. What do we supply to Germany except gas?
              The German minister traveled to Turkey and made an impression to the Turks. Sitting until they rock the boat


              it will be so, the Germans will stop Erdogan as they lose money first of all (EU Germany pulls). And the Germans can promise something to the Turks. But the Germans will not be able to put pressure on us;

              Even if there was no such conversation, this publication in the Turkish media is a message to Erdogan. With caution.
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak 24 October 2012 12: 04
                +2
                Quote: vorobey
                Well, you didn’t Snack to pull my words and hump me.

                Well, it’s impossible to quote, but I liked it
                Quote: vorobey
                Gazprom is the same part of government policy as Rosneft and Rosatom and so on.

                Unfortunately, not everyone understands this.

                Quote: vorobey
                Even if there was no such conversation, this publication in the Turkish media is a message to Erdogan. With caution.

                Competently, just not a provocation?
                1. vorobey
                  vorobey 24 October 2012 12: 07
                  +5
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  only if not a provocation


                  meaning. to push our tourists? Or is it the lobby of our governor - advertising resorts of the region. this is not the season anymore.
    4. Yars
      Yars 24 October 2012 09: 43
      +2
      blat, and from where such conclusions that will not do anything? Are you a predictor or just an ordinary provocateur?
      1. Blat
        Blat 24 October 2012 10: 03
        -6
        let’s tell me what’s going to do? I’m wondering myself. ships in Syria in case of conflict can only be sent through Suez. that is, going around Africa or going around Asia, that is, from the Far East. the Turks have a very convenient location. yes and Russia has no expeditionary forces and there is no experience in such operations. and attack the territory of Turkey? a little higher volcano described the situation
        1. Don
          Don 24 October 2012 15: 33
          0
          Quote: blat
          let’s say. and what will he do? I’m wondering myself. ships to Syria in case of conflict can be sent only through Suez. that is, going around Africa

          Let’s you learn geography ?! From the Northern Fleet and the Baltic through Europe, the Suez Canal has nothing to do with it. Why send ships from the Far East ?! Despite the fact that there is also the Black Sea Fleet. At the same time, you completely ignore strategic aviation.
          Quote: blat
          and Russia has no expeditionary forces

          Expeditionary forces are not a separate type of troops. They can be formed from any units, whether it is the Airborne Forces or SMEs.
          1. Blat
            Blat 24 October 2012 18: 41
            -3
            so teach geography an ignoramus, who do you think controls the altar. is there a passage from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean Sea? do you think this is not a NATO member? geographer))))))))))))))))
            1. Don
              Don 25 October 2012 13: 21
              +1
              Quote: blat
              so teach geography an ignoramus, who do you think controls the altar. is there a passage from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean Sea? do you think this is not a NATO member? geographer))))))))))))))))

              You can put as many emoticons as you like, you won’t have any more brains from this. First you write about the Suez Canal, now you are already moving to Gibraltar. For your information, the Strait of Gibraltar is an international waters where ships of any countries can freely pass. Spain will never make a clash in the Russian fleet, and it has nothing to go on. Do you even know the Spanish Navy? What can they oppose to the nuclear submarines with cruise missiles, the aircraft-carrying missile cruiser with 26 MiG-29K, TARK, BOD or destroyer? A light aircraft carrier with 12 Harriers or a small number of frigates?
              1. Blat
                Blat 28 October 2012 11: 52
                0
                Spain will be all NATO down stupid, and this is England and the United States and they will all be with the Turks. Well, draw a picture of the oil as the fleet passes through the Hybrid Altar? Only the Suez will remain, but it will most likely be blocked. Draw me this picture with oil what are the chances of the Russian navy against the combined fleets of the alliance members?

                Spain will be all NATO down stupid, and this is England and the United States and they will all be with the Turks. Well, draw a picture of the oil as the fleet passes through the Hybrid Altar? Only the Suez will remain, but it will most likely be blocked. Draw me this picture with oil what are the chances of the Russian navy against the combined fleets of the alliance members?
                1. Don
                  Don 2 November 2012 13: 53
                  0
                  Quote: blat
                  all nato down will be foolish behind spain, and this will be england and the usa and all of them will be with the turks.

                  Watch the bazaar for a youngster. The head doesn’t understand very much if you write such nonsense ?! In order to block the Russian fleet near Gibraltar, you need to pull your fleet there to start, NATO countries. But they don’t need it. Germany, Holland, France, Belgium, Italy, have long been the economic partners of the Russian Federation. They do not need Turkey. And do not care deeply about her geopolitical ambitions.
      2. newFeofan
        newFeofan 24 October 2012 10: 22
        +5
        Look: now in our armed forces "modernization" is in full swing, in such a state a war is not the best option, this time.
        Any war, let alone peacemaking, is a lot of money, our military budget, taking into account the first, will not pull, these are two. The introduction of Russian troops can easily be interpreted as an act of aggression by Russia, for this case it will not rust, and this is only a minus for us, these are three.
        It is not necessary to cite the Georgian campaign as an example, then the intervention was simply necessary, at least to maintain Russia's international authority. Therefore, most likely, everything will be limited exclusively to economic sanctions.
        1. Bashkaus
          Bashkaus 24 October 2012 12: 02
          +3
          And now they are not trying to underestimate the authority of Russia? They will dump Assad, and our ships from Tartus will go out under the brass band playing the American anthem - complete respect.
          1. Beck
            Beck 24 October 2012 14: 48
            +2
            Quote: Bashkaus
            They will dump Assad, and our ships from Tartus will go out under the brass band


            Yes, this base is not Tartus. Russian ships do not stand there. This is a technical support item. There are two warehouses on the shore and two rusty cranes on the pier. All.

            This item doesn’t play any role now. It would be needed if Russia had a permanent naval presence in the Mediterranean Sea. But this presence is not there. Here the Black Sea would provide ships.
  12. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 24 October 2012 09: 05
    +6
    This is a good analysis. And it is easy to read. Turks - throw it anywhere, there is a wedge. It seems like I want to steer in the region, right up to itching in all places where it can itch, only because they can scratch these places so that it will hurt there. such a telephone conversation, or fiction, is not so important. This is from the same opera as with the conversation between Lavrov and the Qatari ambassador, but this is not so important. Direct command "Fas!" there was no overseas, so help, in any case, is not particularly open to expect. And Russia and Iran, if something happens, will support Syria, and the Turks can get a civil war. Kurds will not miss the opportunity to play their card on the sly. Assad, clever girl, has already helped.
    Tourism and the income from it, with which a huge number of Turks live, will be covered with a copper basin, which will not contribute either to the economy or to the situation in the country as a whole. An increased energy dependence on Russia will play a role, and trade relations will suffer capitally. And the Syrian army is also not awl shaving. For more than a year now he has been training in the way that no maneuvers will train. So Erdogan must forget about Syria, the Ottoman Empire and dominance in the region. Otherwise, he is a political corpse. and many Turkish citizens can become real corpses.
  13. predator.2
    predator.2 24 October 2012 09: 09
    +5
    Vovan Vovanych said to the Turk firmly, this is the only way to talk with this audience! Let them now think why the hell should they get into Syrian affairs! good
    1. sv-sakh
      sv-sakh 24 October 2012 09: 36
      +1
      If only the words did not diverge from the deed ...
      Already lead and not one soldier has entered and not only has entered ...
  14. JonnyT
    JonnyT 24 October 2012 09: 11
    +5
    Cool article !!!! Really lifted the mood!

    Only the question is: "Was there a boy?" I'm talking about a telephone conversation. If so, I am glad that our foreign policy has big eggs!

    Regarding the relations between Iran and Iraq, when they began to be friends, what is it manifested in?

    “Whether it is the purchase of weapons or oil or political consultations, we do not consult anyone on these issues. Our foreign policy is to proceed from our own interests. ”
    USA - goodbye !!!!!
  15. Saracen
    Saracen 24 October 2012 09: 27
    -3
    An article of those, if only to write on a relevant topic, and a lot of it is far-fetched or the author is not aware of the events taking place there. :
    1. "Iraq will decide to buy that weapon from Russia - for as much as $ XNUMX billion - and at the same time make friends with Iran, with which it quarreled before ..."
    Russian weapons are cheaper and more familiar in Iraq.
    so Iran, through "Islamic guards" and armed Shiite troops, established constitutional order there. so they have long been allies of Iraq and Iran, with blessings and orders from the United States.

    2. "So, we have not two, but as many as three Middle Eastern" camps ": Syria, Iran and Iraq - this is one; Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar - these are two;"
    Yes, Syria, Iran and Iraq are a single group and what unites them is the Iranian special services. which control these countries.
    And Turkey and Saudi Arabia are two irreconcilable opponents in the Islamic world. The only thing they are similar to is the pro-American rulers in them.
  16. Dimych from Vanino
    Dimych from Vanino 24 October 2012 09: 47
    +1
    And the Turk took a crooked saber, so he went where they told him rattling and rattling ...... laughing
  17. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 24 October 2012 09: 58
    +1
    Uncle Putin is better not to anger, otherwise he will punish scum, cruelly punish .... and according to the history, the Turks from us 5 times surely received assholes from us .... but from history and humor ... we must not allow the escalation of the conflict between Syria and Turkey, the result will be clear to everyone, heaps of corpses and destroyed, once a prosperous country ...
  18. Manager
    Manager 24 October 2012 10: 08
    +9
    Than the back I feel that all this UAV UAV UAV next.
    And even if it really is, then the maximum that we can use against a NATO member is to cut off the gas. Which is fraught with financial losses for GAZPROM, but it is not profitable for them. So most likely there will be no reactions other than the words "we will show you Kuz'kin's mother". For our politicians and leadership, except with the defenseless citizens of their country, do not know how and does not want to fight anyone else. Nothing personal is their business.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 October 2012 10: 24
      +10
      Quote: Manager
      What is fraught with financial losses for GAZPROM, but it is not profitable for them


      Still unprofitable In 2011, 1,156 billion rubles were allocated for the salaries of seventeen board members. Well, how to close the pipe, leave the children hungry
    2. itr
      itr 24 October 2012 10: 40
      +4
      Manager are you right as always
      Yes, and if our vyzhivatsya will send them with the construction of nuclear power plants and this is not very frail grandmother
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 24 October 2012 12: 21
        +1
        Quote: itr
        they’ll send them about the construction of a nuclear power plant, and that’s not very sick grandmother

        Well, they will send it, and who will finish building them for these grandmas? maybe the French or the Americans? Do not make me laugh. .
    3. zadotov
      zadotov 24 October 2012 11: 31
      +2
      this is one of the issues of Russia's survival, the country cannot live without geopolitical influence because surrendering zones of influence increases pressure on the country, the allies see toothless politics and betrayal, turn into hidden enemies biting it into the underbelly, and partners begin to put pressure on hydrocarbon prices by intimidating all kinds of By means of punishment and sanctions, the country turns into a well, and it will no longer be important for Gazprom to march along the continents, with its hands in its pockets, but will become a miserable servant. A strong Russia - a strong Gazprom, in case of danger to the country's interests - is a commissure. Yukos has already tried to build its policy contrary to the state - it is impossible.
  19. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 24 October 2012 10: 37
    +4
    And why people do not live in peace, here Erdogan went to Napoleon, the glory of Osman does not let him sleep. Only where is Osman and where is Erdogan. And yet, in my opinion, it was not without amers. We are neighbors with the Turks and, in general, it is unprofitable for them to chop the head of a chicken carrier, maybe of course not gold, but silver, for sure, eggs. And then there is such an outfall, almost from scratch.

    Yes, I almost forgot. Respect and respect to the author. Competent article.

    And why people quietly basking, that’s R. T. Erdogan went to Napoleon. The glory of Osman does not give rest. That's just where Osman and where R. T. Erdogan. And yet, in my opinion, it was not without amers. The Turks and I are actually good neighbors, and they don’t have to chop a chicken that lays eggs, if not gold, then silver. And then there is such a kooky out of the blue, obviously unfriendly actions towards Russia. As Comrade Ogurtsov from Carnival Night said, this is not typical!
    Respect and respect for the author hi
  20. zadotov
    zadotov 24 October 2012 10: 45
    +7
    bacillus + warning tourists from mid + redistribution of gas flows will remove Erdogan - he is too Caucasian for this region. It is interesting to live to see the end of this conflict - if Assad is able to survive, then it can become that influential figure in the region that Erdogan wanted to become. Iran’s position get stronger.

    I would like to read a review by Oleg Chuvakin about the situation in Iraq, something is brewing there or just a window dressing for mouse fuss
    1. Mart
      24 October 2012 11: 59
      +8
      Quote:
      I would like to read a review by Oleg Chuvakin about the situation in Iraq, something is brewing there or just a window dressing for mouse fuss

      Hello, comrade Zadotov! Read the other day.
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 24 October 2012 12: 11
        +4
        Quote: Mart
        Read the other day


        Do not Tomi !!!

        hello Oleg.
        1. Mart
          24 October 2012 12: 32
          +2
          Hi Sasha. The quieter you go, the further you'll get.
  21. grizzlir
    grizzlir 24 October 2012 10: 58
    +7
    I know in advance what a negative reaction will be to my koment.
    - If at least one Turkish soldier crosses the Syrian border, Russia will react very hard.
    - This is a threat? For us, this is unacceptable.
    - Think as you wish, I said my word.

    And the Turkish media wrote it? I don’t really believe it. But let's say such a conversation took place. How can Russia react firmly against a NATO member country? As well as in the case of Libya, Yugoslavia, Egypt. They will express concern, concern, gather the Security Council UN: Well, it is possible that even with the supply of Onishchenko, Russian tourists will be banned from entering Turkey due to the discovery of some broiler plague stick in Turkish waters, etc. Ready to catch cons, subject to your comments, but how can Russia still react to your opinion?
    1. dimanf
      dimanf 24 October 2012 11: 21
      0
      another duck from Mr. Peskov.
      the sun’s rating of the nation is flying fast.
      election tales are not fulfilled.
      and you want to save your face.
      1. urzul
        urzul 24 October 2012 11: 54
        +2
        another duck from Mr. Peskov.
        Peskov, what does the Turkish media have to do with it?
        1. grizzlir
          grizzlir 24 October 2012 12: 22
          +1
          Quote: urzul
          Peskov, what does the Turkish media have to do with it?
          I don’t understand either. Now I’ve tried to flip through Western sites, there isn’t any news there yet. Are Western media late? Something I don’t believe in it. And in Russia, this news has already surfaced in a conversation with our president’s men. This information makes you think.
          1. urzul
            urzul 24 October 2012 12: 45
            0
            Of course, that in the pursuit of viewing, journalists will not come up with any nonsense
            1. dimanf
              dimanf 24 October 2012 13: 00
              0
              Quote: urzul
              Of course, that in the pursuit of viewing, journalists will not come up with any nonsense


              but how many people believed in this duck and how many eulogies were said about Putin.
              here is the answer to your question about peskov.
              1. urzul
                urzul 24 October 2012 13: 18
                0
                And how many people believed that Kabaev was pregnant with him and what?
                You already have some sort of Putin mania,
                By the way, who cares, here is the original news on the Turkish site, so the boy was:
                http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=ru&ie=UTF8
                & prev = _t & rurl = translate.google.com & sl = auto & tl = ru & u = http: //www.aydinlikgazete.com/
                dunya1 / 15063-putin-bir-kez-daha-uyardi-suriye-politikanizi-degistirin.html & usg = A
                LkJrhho_VreRlqOo6CHFLDG06btAF9nGA
          2. dimanf
            dimanf 24 October 2012 13: 08
            +1
            Quote: grizzlir
            Now I tried to leaf through Western sites, there is so far no news.

            here I am about the same.
            there is nothing like this on the site of a Turkish newspaper.
            http://www.aydinlikgazete.com/
    2. подводник
      подводник 24 October 2012 11: 28
      +2
      Not I said, but in my opinion Zadornov:
      For every tricky move of the West, Russia will respond with its unpredictable stupidity ... Well, or something like that ...
      For the likely and plausibly described development of the expected events, dear grizzlir I do not put a minus.
    3. Vadivak
      Vadivak 24 October 2012 11: 28
      +13
      Quote: grizzlir
      with the filing of Onishchenko, Russian tourists will be prohibited from entering Turkey,



      There are historical examples of how our ancestors spoke with the Turks
      1. grizzlir
        grizzlir 24 October 2012 11: 47
        +7
        Quote: Vadivak
        There are historical examples of how our ancestors spoke with the Turks

        I agree with you. There are even more recent examples of our superiority and not only over the Turks.
        And until 1990, they tried to help the allies not in word but in deed. Noteworthy is 1985. In 1985, the Soviet Union strengthened the 5th squadron by conducting two warships through the Turkish Straits from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean. In January 1986 by order of the Civil Code of the Navy of the RKR, “Slava” entered the Mediterranean Sea due to the aggravation of the situation off the coast of Libya. For 37 days, the ship was continuously on the move, simultaneously monitoring two AMGs as part of the aircraft carriers America America CV-66 and Forrestal CV-59. before his return in February to Sevastopol. In January 1986 the flagship of the 5th squadron, a submarine floating base with electronic reconnaissance equipment, entered the waters near Tripoli. The presence of the flagship showed increased Soviet uneasiness and expressed Moscow's apparent support for the Libyan ally. In addition, with the help of marine reconnaissance aircraft operating from Libyan airfields, the USSR provided Libya with detailed information on the activities of the US Navy in the area. According to the Libyan MiG-25, which flew near an American aircraft carrier, were in contact with a Soviet reconnaissance aircraft.
        In general, off the coast of Libya, then the whole operation of the USSR Navy was launched with the participation of ships, submarines, air defense and the Navy of the Union. We could then demonstrate the power of the state. We could show the Amers that they were not masters on the planet.
        1. Blat
          Blat 24 October 2012 18: 47
          -4
          and therefore the Americans in 86 bombed the tripoli. tell the whole tale to the end already
          1. grizzlir
            grizzlir 25 October 2012 08: 36
            +1
            I don’t argue with the bombing. Just what result of this bombing I hope you know? And without our means of air defense there could not have done.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. tan0472
      tan0472 24 October 2012 11: 45
      +11
      There is a situation in the world in which "whoever dares - he ate". For example, if Russia occupies the Baltics (which of course it will not do - why does it need this hemorrhoid?), Then what will NATO countries do? To deliver nuclear strikes on Russian territory? Or prepare for a big war? No no. It will be about the same as what you described - They will express concern, concern, assemble the UN Security Council. Well, perhaps even with the filing of Onishchenko, Russian tourists will be banned from entering Turkey due to the detection of some kind of broiler plague stick in Turkish waters, etc. They will also "rally" and declare, for example, an embargo on Russia. AND EVERYTHING. Not a single, even the most frostbitten American general will press the nuclear button, because he wants his granddaughter to eat hamburgers in fast food, and not radioactive rats sitting in a bomb shelter (at best) These are the realities of today's world. hi
      By the way, from the embargo (which sooner or later will end) Russia will only benefit - it will learn how to make its own Mercedes and Bosch refrigerators. IMHO.
      1. Blat
        Blat 24 October 2012 19: 26
        +3
        Well, yes, I was born in that country where both Mercedes and Bosch refrigerators were made. And that country was completely different and stronger and people were different. And where is this country? Can a person live in a cell even if this cell is one sixth of sushi. By the way Without the use of nuclear weapons, Russia has even fewer chances against NATO. This was calculated by Russian experts themselves. It’s just that you can’t get a lot of Kalash in our time. And you don’t have to imagine that you can use nuclear weapons against someone. will force the general to press this button and it will not be a frostbitten person
    5. wax
      wax 24 October 2012 13: 44
      +1
      No doubt the Turks distorted the conversation. Rather, it was closer to the message that Russia would see this as aggression. Accordingly, the other two phrases do not fit into the context, but are directed towards creating the image of a certain bully from Putin, and from Erdogan - a patriotic statesman. They were forced to write, because the genie popped out of the bottle.
  22. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 24 October 2012 10: 58
    +2
    I doubt that the GDP conducted a telephone conversation in SUCH a tone with the head of a foreign state, as presented in the article. Turkey is the basis of the Ottoman Empire, which collapsed less than a century ago, and therefore imperial ambitions have remained and will be present.
  23. alex shnajder
    alex shnajder 24 October 2012 11: 27
    +2
    it is a pity of course, I had a favorite beach there ..... but Turkish politicians became impudent, they need to pinch their eggs
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 24 October 2012 12: 27
      +1
      Yeah, brother come to us on the Black Sea coast. Here you are protected from the Armenian-Greek service and the prices for this service.
      1. Manager
        Manager 24 October 2012 12: 48
        0
        The Black Sea is a dirty puddle surrounded by blackness and thieves. There is no real rest.
        1. подводник
          подводник 24 October 2012 12: 53
          +4
          Travel to Cyprus.
          They are both Orthodox and Russian respected.
          And ours there are already exorbitant ...
          1. grizzlir
            grizzlir 24 October 2012 13: 07
            +3
            Quote: submariner
            Travel to Cyprus.
            Better to Cuba. Ours are few there, but respected from the old memory, especially the military. And nature good
            1. подводник
              подводник 24 October 2012 13: 23
              +2
              Also an option!!!
            2. SAVA555.IVANOV
              SAVA555.IVANOV 24 October 2012 20: 03
              +3
              And I would like to go to Cuba, but the ticket will probably cost more than the ticket itself)))
              1. grizzlir
                grizzlir 24 October 2012 20: 47
                +2
                Yes, plane tickets also hinder the tourism business. 2 years ago my wife and I cost about 150 thousand for a flight. There and back. But we did not regret it. After all, when our sailors of the Navy admired the beauties there regularly. And for free.
          2. SAVA555.IVANOV
            SAVA555.IVANOV 24 October 2012 20: 01
            +1
            What an intelligent person will go to rest in the 45-degree heat, you can sit at home under the air conditioning. Although they go to the pillars to see. And there are enough ancient fortresses in our republics.
            1. christophoros
              christophoros 25 October 2012 00: 08
              +2
              Of course, why so far !!! please come to us))) Greece will be happy to welcome tourists who will not go to Turkey. smile
              1. SAVA555.IVANOV
                SAVA555.IVANOV 25 October 2012 01: 47
                +3
                In Greece, the climate is temperate and the history is rich, and besides, everything is there !!!!!))))) By the way, the cradle of true democracy! The Amers and the EU here, too, have crap fighting on every corner for democracy, drove the "homeland of democracy" into poverty and chaos. I wonder what fate the Greek came to this site !?))))
                1. christophoros
                  christophoros 26 October 2012 00: 38
                  +3
                  how right you are at the expense of what they drove! but the fact that I am on this site, or anything so supernatural, I was born and lived in Russia !!!
  24. подводник
    подводник 24 October 2012 11: 29
    +3
    Somehow it is hard to believe that a new campaign "For Constantinople" is on the nose ...
    Although anything happens ...
  25. UzRus
    UzRus 24 October 2012 11: 34
    +3
    Where is Alibek?
    1. tan0472
      tan0472 24 October 2012 12: 31
      +2
      And for Muslims "holy days" have begun. Disconnect the TV tunnels. Not everyone is looking at the monitor. wink
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 25 October 2012 07: 39
      +2
      Quote: UzRus

      Where is Alibek?

      Here Alibek !!)))
      Just nothing to comment))
  26. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 24 October 2012 11: 45
    0
    It all depends on the States, how decisively and deeply they are ready to intervene in the situation in Syria. Mr. Erdogan hastened with his calls for the democratization of Syria and urgent military intervention, as they say, ran "in front of the locomotive." He, ErDOGAN does not catch up that the main role of the DEMOCRATIZER is allowed to play only to the AMERICANIZER!
  27. Averias
    Averias 24 October 2012 12: 00
    0
    I can’t understand what it is, not so long ago, Mr. Erdogan was, in principle, a normal man, he was pushing sound ideas. And then there’s some kind of insanity, why would it be. Or delusions of grandeur suddenly overpowered, why could the West promise him that he would break loose.
  28. silver_roman
    silver_roman 24 October 2012 12: 24
    +2
    Erdogan really got into a difficult situation and perhaps began to slowly understand that he was simply being played with and with his help Western "representatives of democracy and peace in the world" achieve their goals. with the aim of extricating himself, perhaps a similar dialogue with Putin was invented in order to slowly get away from the idea of ​​intervention against Syria. so to speak: "we are Turks are heroes and guys are strong, but against Russia - mothers shove him well," and this is an excellent reason to slow down a little and once again consider the consequences of a not rash foreign policy of the procession on the occasion of the s!
  29. Bigriver
    Bigriver 24 October 2012 12: 53
    0
    Russia for Turkey is a foreign economic partner Number ONCE.
    And there’s no getting around it.
    The invented dialogue cited by Turkish media:
    - If at least one Turkish soldier crosses the Syrian border, Russia will react very hard.
    - ....

    IMHO, demonstrates public opinion regarding the risky policies of Erdogan. That is, apparently, this is such a social trend. And perhaps the desire of conservative forces to slow down the very risky policy of a very active search for a new value for Turkey.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 25 October 2012 07: 41
      +1
      Quote: BigRiver
      demonstrates

      the opinion of that part of the opposition to which the newspaper is close !!
  30. dimanf
    dimanf 24 October 2012 12: 55
    0
    Quote: urzul
    Peskov, what does the Turkish media have to do with it?


    and who else but he is promoting Putin!
    and if it’s not difficult to link to an article in a newspaper. and not on regnum.
  31. Lone gunman
    Lone gunman 24 October 2012 13: 30
    -1
    HEY. There is one simplest solution to the Syrian problem - when the tension around Syria becomes very high, we - that is, Russia will simply surrender Syria as it surrendered the South, I do not see anything bad in this (geopolitical collapse), be honest with yourself, now Russia is weak. Putin once said that Russia would not be drawn in, let alone fight for another 15 years, we need to do the "business" inside the COUNTRY, we have a lot of problems, so you don't have to worry (at least until 2020, something like that) , and I completely agree with him. Now the regional war of death is similar, although we will fight with other hands (hypothetically), Turkey is not Georgia. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since the time of the USSR, time is still waiting ... and there will be a holiday on our street. (a person with an unkind smile).
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver 24 October 2012 14: 04
      +3
      Russia since the Yugoslav conflict and now - these are two different countries, with different tasks.
      All the 90s, Russia was, in fact, in external control and had no foreign policy. This policy began to appear under Primakov and appeared under Putin.
      I agree with the author. The surrender of Syria is a long minus to Russian politics and a rollback of 15 years in foreign affairs.
      Stand on your own position, hold on and do not ssat.
      Sir Winston spoke well of a similar situation: Great Britain had a choice: get a war, or lose honor. She lost her honor and got a war.
      1. Lone gunman
        Lone gunman 24 October 2012 19: 57
        +1
        ... The surrender of Yugoslavia is a long minus to Russian politics and a rollback in foreign affairs for ... backward. Hurray patriotism, drafts barely, we already passed. Along all this nonsense, there’s still common sense, I know that Putin has got red flags for which he can’t come in and not placed by someone outsiders, but first of all by himself. And it’s not that not piss. here, one must have wisdom, his time is our ally, the more without war, the better. We need to possess steel muscles, not caps, than we will defend our interests? by the technology of the 70-80s of the last century?!, except poplars and other vigorous technology - this is our rather their deterrent. By 2018-2020, according to some experts, this factor will be less and less significant. In politics, they don’t like hot goals. Give us time and we will be reckoned with.
    2. Simon
      Simon 24 October 2012 21: 42
      0
      A settlement, not a settlement of Russia, is respected all over the world, and the Americans are afraid. We are Russian unpredictable. wassat
  32. georg737577
    georg737577 24 October 2012 13: 39
    +4
    So Stalin could say - I believe. Putin is unlikely. But there is little faith for journalists.
  33. Setrac
    Setrac 24 October 2012 13: 47
    +2
    That damn started, NATA NATA, Poland also in the 39th believed that it would help. No one will fight with Russia to defend Turkey.
    1. Simon
      Simon 24 October 2012 21: 50
      0
      That's it! Putin is far-sighted. It was not for nothing that he ran a gas pipe to Germany, and then we have a vent. Germany will be silent and Europe will be the same. And the Americans themselves will not climb, if only "revolutionaries" with bandit antics are hired. hi
  34. tekinoral
    tekinoral 24 October 2012 13: 56
    -1
    the main news media do not write anything about it, it says that a Palestinian newspaper claims that there was a conversation and Putin put Erdogan’s phone in his face, and the Syrian newspaper writes that there was nothing of the kind, I don’t know much so far. I personally don’t believe that it was like that conversation
  35. zadorin1974
    zadorin1974 24 October 2012 14: 24
    0
    article - aerobatics - plus to the author !!!!!
  36. understudy
    understudy 24 October 2012 14: 37
    0
    Quote: urzul
    Only now it was originally published in the Turkish media.


    So what? For some reason, few people in the West knew about the "Munich speech" of the famous character, but in our enthusiastic media its content was present on the front pages.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver 24 October 2012 14: 51
      +2
      understudy

      And how do you measure the knowledge of Western society?
      The fact that foreign media regularly voice Russia's position on pressing issues is a fact. Strong expressions of GDP are necessary and sometimes sucked up for several months.
      I, as it were, have a long-standing habit of monitoring the foreign press at least a couple of times a week.
  37. Uncle Serozha
    Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 14: 52
    +2
    I know that it was indeed our informational stuffing (with the fees arising from it) into the central Turkish media which is not at all unimportant. An indirect confirmation is that the statement that Putin allegedly made was quite unprecedented, and yet the news was not circulated by serious Western media (at least I did not see it).

    Weakly believe in such phraseology. One can relate to GDP differently, but one can hardly blame him for his incontinence and inability to control himself. And the style is not his - rather caustic sarcasm is inherent in him.
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 24 October 2012 15: 22
      0
      Quote: Uncle Seryozha
      I know that this was really our informational stuffing

      Most likely this is really a stuffing, but such stuffing in the Middle East is a bomb in itself. For example, Kurds - they perfectly remember that the state of Kurdistan existed as long as there were Soviet troops. And if they see the possibility of supporting Russia ( not necessarily direct military) - it can turn out very interesting ...
      1. harrymur
        harrymur 24 October 2012 16: 13
        0
        and what’s interesting we’ll see there, the Turks, as it were, have always been our opponent in the Black Sea affairs, well, they also have the grail of Orthodoxy in Constantinople, the dardanels are also theirs, and the Turks are well aware that it’s better not to mess with the Russians, no matter how much the Saxons support them they understand the NATO lines = they are Muslims, heirs of the Ottoman Empire, and the baptized civilization will never accept them, but will use them stupidly for their own interests, but I don’t understand what the Russians do in Syria, and why shit on the Turks for the sake of it, sort of like a showdown local-Shiites-Salafis-shahids and other bearded evil spirits, especially since the states seemed to give us bone in Iraq,
        crap shorter throwing unequivocally, and Sezh Turks sorry for their extreme campaign make
        1. Arkan
          Arkan 24 October 2012 16: 23
          +1
          Quote: harrimur
          I don’t understand what to do Russian in Syria,

          What the United States is doing all over the world is to defend its sales markets: Syria is one of the main customers of Russia, Syria and Iran, for Russia, a kind of buffer against radical Islam and the further advancement of NATO towards Russia. These reasons alone are enough.
          1. Jin
            Jin 24 October 2012 16: 34
            +1
            Quote: Arkan
            Syria and Iran, for Russia, a kind of buffer from radical Islam and the further advancement of NATO towards Russia


            A plus! A definite plus!
            1. Beck
              Beck 24 October 2012 17: 13
              -2
              Arkana and Jin

              In my opinion, only in my opinion. If we look further and deeper, then to protect Russia’s markets, it would be different. It does not support Assad all the way. All the same, he’s not going to fall so tomorrow, but to establish relations with the opposition. After all, when it comes to power, Russia will remain on the Syrian arms market anyway. And if Russia will support Assad to the end, then after its fall, what kind of sales market will it be possible to talk with the new Syrian government.
              1. Arkan
                Arkan 24 October 2012 17: 26
                0
                Quote: Beck
                and build relationships with the opposition

                Even in the United States, no one really knows who the "Syrian opposition" is (If you believe their State Department). Who is there to negotiate with? What are the guarantees? This is all nonsense, elections were held in Syria (which the West is silent about), the Syrians decided how to live. Why shouldn't Turkey accept this fact as it is?
                1. Beck
                  Beck 24 October 2012 17: 30
                  -1
                  To the lasso.

                  If now no one will agree with anyone. It’s not to support Assad, it will be counted in the future.
                  1. Arkan
                    Arkan 24 October 2012 17: 43
                    0
                    Beck,
                    Quote: Beck
                    If now no one will agree with anyone. It’s not to support Assad, it will be counted in the future.

                    Having the example of Libya on hand ... No. Putin will definitely not believe it (It's called - you die today and I will tomorrow). Yes and why not support Assad? He doesn’t even deal with air piracy ...
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 24 October 2012 18: 14
                      -3
                      To the lasso.

                      And what happened so bad in Libya? The bloody dictator Gaddafi, who at one time threatened the whole world, ordered to blow up passenger planes (Lockbury), who came to power by a military coup was swept away by the people.

                      The people held free, fair elections. And in spite of the rancor that after Gaddafi Islamic extremists will come to power, such as Qaeda, the people chose a liberal parliament, not an Islamic one. And the sky did not fall on Libya. Libyans are establishing a new life without a dictator. The same thing could happen in Syria.
                2. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 25 October 2012 07: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Arkan
                  Turkey does not accept this fact as it is?

                  Because this * fact * was not accepted by anyone among the * close * countries and the allies did not accept!
                  1. Arkan
                    Arkan 25 October 2012 13: 24
                    +1
                    Yarbay,
                    I understand that. This means that the principles of non-intervention, thanks to which it was possible to keep peace on Earth, are no longer relevant, and together with them will disappear into oblivion and agreements on the non-proliferation of missile technologies, the use of chemical and bacteriological weapons, etc. may be completely different from those that were before. Judging by the number of anti-war demonstrations in Turkey, the people do not need this war (people do not see the real reasons for this war) all this turns the policy of the Turkish leadership into an adventure with very vague prospects. arguments of visitors to this site from Turkey, in your opinion - which of them can be taken seriously? (I ask only without the sore arguments about the "absence of democracy in Syria", following them you can agree on the immediate bombing of the Vatican)
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 25 October 2012 17: 38
                      +3
                      Quote: Arkan
                      I understand this. This means that the principles of non-interference, thanks to which it was possible to maintain peace on Earth, are no longer relevant, and with them will go into oblivion and agreements on not spreading rocket technologies, not using chemical and bacteriological weapons, etc.

                      You're right!
                      Quote: Arkan
                      Judging by the number of anti-war demonstrations in Turkey, the people do not need this war (people don’t see any real reasons for this war), all this turns the policy of the Turkish leadership into a gamble with very vague prospects.

                      Yes there are not numerous demonstrations there !!
                      PAC representatives go to the demonstration !!
                      And some opposition parties are trying to seize the moment !!
                      On the contrary, in Turkey, the population remembers the support of Kurdish terrorists by Syria and Ocalan talked a lot about how he managed his gangs from there !!
                      There is no pity for Assad and his regime!
                      Quote: Arkan
                      . Look at the arguments of visitors to this site from Turkey, in your opinion - which of them can be taken seriously?

                      There is only one tequinoral from Turkey !!
                      I think he represents the opinion of most Turks, democracy is not what I wrote above! There are a lot of mutual claims!
                      But personally, I do not support this rabble that is against Assad!
                      1. Arkan
                        Arkan 26 October 2012 02: 01
                        +1
                        Thank you for your reply!
              2. Uncle Serozha
                Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 17: 26
                +1
                Quote: Beck
                It would be beneficial to Russia to protect its markets in Russia. It does not support Assad all the way. All the same, he’s not going to fall so tomorrow, but to establish relations with the opposition

                The main Russian market is the hydrocarbon market in Europe. And to protect it, it is necessary to block alternative sources and alternative transportation routes. And precisely for this purpose, to prevent a regime change in Iran (and also in Syria, since it is an ally of Iran).

                As for the Syrian arms market, firstly, it will not compensate for our losses on gas, and secondly, the support of the opposition completely does not guarantee its safety. You can’t have business with these people - they cannot agree among themselves ...
                1. Beck
                  Beck 24 October 2012 17: 49
                  -1
                  Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                  And to protect it, it is necessary to block alternative sources and alternative transportation routes.


                  The Russian hydrocarbon pipe goes through Bulgaria. And here Syria, especially Iran.
                  And why would it be worse for the pipe if an elected, rather than dictatorial, system of power comes to power in Syria?
                  1. Arkan
                    Arkan 24 October 2012 18: 01
                    0
                    Beck,
                    The developing economy of China (and India) needs energy resources, including Russian ones. (Maintaining such a growth rate - the consumption of hydrocarbons by these countries may double in the next five years, and will grow)
                  2. Uncle Serozha
                    Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 18: 15
                    +2
                    Quote: Beck
                    The Russian hydrocarbon pipe goes through Bulgaria. And here Syria, especially Iran.

                    The impression is that you do not read what I am writing. I did not write "to protect the pipe". I wrote "to protect the European market." From alternative sources of gas and routes of its transportation. And in the event of a regime change in Iran, this is exactly what will happen. And we must not allow this. We want only us to pump gas to Europe. Now it is clear?

                    If it’s not clear, then do not be shy, I can for the third time ... smile
                    1. Arkan
                      Arkan 24 October 2012 18: 30
                      +1
                      Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                      If it’s not clear, then do not be shy, I can for the third time ...

                      laughing
                    2. Beck
                      Beck 24 October 2012 18: 48
                      -2
                      Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                      It seems that you are not reading what I am writing.


                      Well, do not drive it into the paint. Could whisper in the ear.

                      Actually, in the civilized world, chaos and violence are not used to protect their interests. The law of the market - there should not be a monopoly, there should be an alternative. There must be competition and whoever provides quality, the best conditions, reasonable prices will win. It will also force the other side to seek new opportunities.
                      1. Uncle Serozha
                        Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 19: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: Beck
                        Well, do not drive it into the paint. Could whisper in the ear.

                        On you, if possible. smile
                        Quote: Beck
                        Actually, in the civilized world, chaos and violence are not used to protect their interests.

                        In this case, the United States - does not belong to the civilized world? smile
                        Quote: Beck
                        The law of the market - there should not be a monopoly, there should be an alternative. There must be competition and whoever provides quality, the best conditions, reasonable prices will win.

                        Competition is extremely beneficial to the buyer. And the monopoly is for the seller. Let me remind you that we are a seller in gas supplies to Europe. And we will try to maintain our monopoly as long as possible.
          2. harrymur
            harrymur 24 October 2012 16: 40
            0
            in the light of new strategic statements, our strategy is the Far East and the Pacific Rim, NATO and the Russians have already gotten everyone, this is an eternal topic, they are not threatening us anything, our answer is clear, they are not morons to wage a full-scale war of destruction with the Russians, a buffer against Islam this is baku-yerevan-tbilissi, to sell our technologies to syria and iran in full is not reasonable yet those allies
            here is a good review
            http://warfiles.ru/show-15109-dlya-uderzhaniya-zapada-na-rasstoyanii-rossiya-soz
            daet-stalnoy-kulak.html
            1. Arkan
              Arkan 24 October 2012 16: 51
              0
              Quote: harrimur
              NATO and Russians already got everyone

              I don’t understand this logic. Do you deny the fact that NATO is moving towards Russia or do not see this as a threat?
              Quote: harrimur
              still those allies

              As it turned out - more reliable than the "partners" from Washington, with their missile defense at the Russian borders.
              Quote: harrimur
              the buffer from Islam is baku-yerevan-tbilisi

              After the reign of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, this is not a buffer but a problem.
              1. Jin
                Jin 24 October 2012 16: 57
                +1
                Quote: Arkan
                After the reign of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, this is not a buffer but a problem.


                laughing Another plus!
                1. Arkan
                  Arkan 24 October 2012 17: 02
                  0
                  Jin,
                  It’s a pity that it happened with Azerbaijan, it’s a pity (((.
              2. harrymur
                harrymur 24 October 2012 17: 06
                -1
                how can it be that the time of approaching from the Baltic to Moscow is no more than 15 minutes, and what should they declare war on us now, I’m sorry, I’m a pacifist, well, they want to expand NATO and NATO, we try against it (especially poplar and yars, Satan), and what a hysteria run into bricks and come from because of this, hell knows there more politics than war, buhurt and nothing more,
                and where is the problem in these countries, the Georgians seem to have merged, the Armenians and Azeris are having fun with each other, no one will officially greet the bearded men, what else is needed, they should hang the hammer and sickle again, so I personally would like to get rid of it
                and remember Washington with their ally about us than Tehran and Yao, and Damsk ho, read the story from where the assassins went, what is Islamism, and Iran is not just a barrier, but the homeland of these movements in Islam

                my opinion should be reasonable and modern, and picky in allies, and there are only two of them-the army and navy
                1. Uncle Serozha
                  Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 17: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: harrimur
                  and remember Washington with their pro ally about us than tehran with yao and damsk ho

                  Thanks, neighing! lol I would like to ask: is Washington aware that it is our ally? It seems that no ...
                  Quote: harrimur
                  my opinion must be reasonable and modern, and picky in allies, and there are only two of them - the army and navy

                  Strange - literally the paragraph above, you assigned Washington to the Allies. request
                  Confused or what? wink
            2. Uncle Serozha
              Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 17: 02
              +1
              Quote: harrimur
              in the light of new strategic statements, our strategy is the Far East and Asia-Pacific, NATO and the Russians have already got everyone, this is an eternal topic, they threaten us with nothing

              Yes they very want us to believe it. The new concept of Mr. Brzezinski. Previously, he believed that the future in Eurasia would be built on the wreckage of Russia, and now that Russia should be taken to the western camp. But we well understand what he means by this: use Russia as cannon fodder for the war with China.

              "And here's the X" - as mathematicians say. Wiry and hard-working. Let the United States fight China itself. We will always support the weak side in this confrontation, not allowing anyone's advantage. For he who overcomes will devour us. So let it be better to exhaust each other.

              Quote: harrimur
              the buffer from Islam is Baku-Yerevan-Tbilisi, it’s not reasonable to sell our technologies in full to Syria and Iran

              Yeah! Schazzzz! The purpose of regime change in Iran is to create an alternative source of hydrocarbons for Europe. And thereby weakening our influence. But we don’t need it. We need gas to be delivered to Europe. And the Turks (whom you feel so sorry for) continued to be a resort. Something like this. wink
              1. harrymur
                harrymur 24 October 2012 17: 24
                0
                sorry, of course, but where are the thoughts, where do you get the info for such conclusions, what kind of China, which meat, and gas are still intertwined, well, we won’t have Europe, which is debatable, because after the actions in Iran through this region it’s been 50 years since one pipe will not pass see afgan
                sorry for me so everything is complete nonsense and irresponsible
                1. Arkan
                  Arkan 24 October 2012 17: 35
                  +1
                  laughing So you yourself called another reason why NATO should not poke its nose into Syria and Iran.
                  Quote: harrimur
                  which is debatable, since after shares in Iran through this region for 50 years, more than one pipe will not pass.

                  Does China and Russia need this? I apologize, are you by any chance not Turks?
                2. Uncle Serozha
                  Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 17: 41
                  +2
                  Quote: harrimur
                  sorry, of course, but where are the thoughts, where do you get the info for such conclusions, which China, which meat, and gas are still intertwined

                  I do not see rational argumentation in this stream of emotions.

                  Quote: harrimur
                  well, we won’t have Europe, which is debatable, because after the actions in Iran through this region for 50 years, more than one pipe will not pass.

                  Yah? Nothing terrible will happen there. Libya is also in chaos, but this did not stop the Americans from landing there this year 12 marines to guard the oil terminals. And oil goes where it is needed (where IM is needed) despite the mess in the country.
                  http://top.rbc.ru/politics/22/01/2012/634271.shtml
                  And from Iraq, oil also goes where IM is needed. But in Afghanistan you just mentioned there is simply no oil. So go by.
                  But "we won't have Europe" - yes, it's just a blue dream we are all-knowingwink

                  Quote: harrimur
                  sorry for me so everything is complete nonsense and irresponsible

                  So why write it if you yourself understand? smile
              2. Beck
                Beck 24 October 2012 17: 41
                -2
                Uncle Earring.

                You don’t scare the countersinks. And if he dreams?

                My. I would now, with great welcome, be in favor of the "Secret Memorandum" between Russia and the United States against China. Than for the same memorandum between China and Russia against the United States.

                In 10-15 years, the Chinese Dragon will finally rise to its full height and spread its wings wide. Then the United States and Russia will not find it enough.

                And then they are fixated on the United States. You have to look further. And you can even overlook the "secret memorandum" between the United States and China against Russia.
                1. Arkan
                  Arkan 24 October 2012 17: 56
                  +2
                  Aw, don’t. laughing China withdraws its troops from the Russian border, and doesn’t stir up wars anywhere, and the USA?
                  Quote: Beck
                  "Secret Memorandum" between Russia and the United States against China

                  We have already agreed with the United States, and more than once. What is there with the US withdrawing from the ABM treaty and promises not to expand NATO to the east? Probably the time has come to negotiate with China.
                2. Uncle Serozha
                  Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 18: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: Beck
                  You don’t scare the countersinks. And if he dreams?

                  This is morse wink I decipher:
                  Quote: Beck
                  I would now, with great welcome, be in favor of the "Secret Memorandum" between Russia and the United States against China. Than for the same memorandum between China and Russia against the United States.

                  Yes, that’s understandable! They are persistently trying to suggest this idea to us. But in fact, we are not for China. We are for the confrontation between the USA and China. And so that it continues, we will always maintain a weak side in it.
                  "We beat the Poles with Tatar cavalry, and the Tatars with Polish cannons" - the ancestors were wise. And the double-headed eagle that they left for us is a message depicted in the schedule. We understood him and will try not to shame them ... wink
                  Quote: Beck
                  In 10-15 years, the Chinese Dragon will finally rise to its full height and spread its wings wide. Then the United States and Russia will not find it enough.

                  And shortly before this event, we will block with the United States against China. But also temporarily. Do you catch a thought? smile
                  Quote: Beck
                  And then fixated on the United States. You need to look further.

                  What are we doing ... smile And we wish you all
                  Quote: Beck
                  And you can even overlook the "secret memorandum" between the United States and China against Russia.

                  And China is immediately left without its main scientific base face to face with the United States ....
                  You probably know that the "Chinese" J-10 fighter is a Mikoyan "product 4.12" (aka LMFI). The J-20 is a Sukhov aircraft 1.46 brought in by SibNIA. As we designed everything for them, we design it ...
                  1. Beck
                    Beck 24 October 2012 18: 26
                    -1
                    Arkan and Seryozha grandfather.

                    Well, in general, I see and you are clear. For any, China is more dangerous. And even if not in 15 years, but in 30 when, having learned on Russian planes, he will do his hypersonic sounds. And this is to say that if you do not say amers what kind of European mentality. But among the Chinese, they are purely Asian and cross-eyed, and you will not see which way they are looking. And the head of the Chinese is round, without European angles. And in such a skull, thoughts run around in a circle without stagnating in the corners.

                    If you don’t agree with the West now, tomorrow there will be one hegegomon in the world. In the form of a breathless Dragon.
                    1. Arkan
                      Arkan 24 October 2012 18: 36
                      +1
                      Quote: Beck
                      But the Chinese have an Asian and cross-eyed, and you will not see which way they are looking

                      laughing
                      And what about the Turks? And the Jews ... laughing Okay, politics will wait. I’ll probably go catch some crayfish and shoot some fish. I wish you success and prosperity!
                    2. Uncle Serozha
                      Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 18: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: Beck
                      Arkan and Seryozha grandfather.

                      Well, what are you so impolite? I, like, your nickname did not distort and was quite correct. smile

                      Quote: Beck
                      Well, in general, I see and you are clear. For any, China is more dangerous.

                      Not. You still could not justify this, and it seems to you that this is clear to you. smile Do not give out wishful thinking. smile
                      Quote: Beck
                      and after 30, when, having learned on Russian planes, he will do his hypersonic sounds.

                      So 30 years have passed. And 40 have passed. When we delivered the MiG-19 to them (and adjusted the production of the full cycle). And then the MiG-21 in the amount of 2 copies with a set of documentation. And where are the hypersounds? lol
                      Quote: Beck
                      And this is to say that if you do not say amers what kind of European mentality. And the Chinese are purely Asian and cross-eyed

                      A humanitarian leaf that has nothing to do with the benefit of the parties. Can I be more pragmatic?
                      Quote: Beck
                      If you don’t agree with the West now, tomorrow there will be one hegegomon in the world. In the form of a breathless Dragon

                      Yes, yes, yes ... Those who want to become a hegemon instead of a dragon are trying to suggest this idea to us. And we will not be with the dragon, nor with them. Let them exhaust each other, and we will pump gas to Europe and be engaged in scientific research ... smile
                      1. Beck
                        Beck 24 October 2012 19: 08
                        -1
                        Uncle Seryozha.

                        Well, sorry. I'm kind of friendly. Well, okay.

                        The West does not sell modern weapons to China. Moscow was glad there were no competitors. And she sold the parties Su and Migov in the hope that China will continue to buy. The Chinese part of the aircraft dismantled, realized, made copies. And they told the Kremlin. Now we will not buy at all. One way or another, but involuntarily, Russia is contributing to the emergence of some kind of Nicago but its own aircraft industry in China. Now, clumsy, but his fighter 5 generation made. And so in everything I say this. Ukraine sold them an aircraft carrier like scrap, and the Chinese put it into operation. They bought one hovercraft from that Ukraine, and there’s no need to speak anymore.

                        About the skull. I was talking about the mentality. Well, they don’t have the mentality that Europeans are used to.

                        And more dangerous, in the future, the beast than the Chinese Dragon and not to find.
                      2. Uncle Serozha
                        Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 19: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Beck
                        Well, sorry. I'm kind of friendly. Well, okay.

                        I’m not a snob, but I just don’t remember when we managed to make friends. I prefer courtesy.
                        Quote: Beck
                        The West does not sell modern weapons to China. Moscow was glad there were no competitors. And sold the parties Su and Migov

                        When were "lots of MiGs" sold to China ??? (with the exception of the 50s / 60s ???) Can I get a link?
                        Quote: Beck
                        The West does not sell modern weapons to China. Moscow was glad there were no competitors. And she sold the parties Su and Migov in the hope that China will continue to buy. The Chinese part of the aircraft dismantled, realized, made copies. And they told the Kremlin. Now we will not buy at all.

                        Firstly, this is not so. The Su-27 engines (they are also supposedly in Chinese J-10), the Chinese could not copy and continue to buy from Russia. They do not mass-produce and cannot produce copies of our aircraft, because in this situation they will be left without dvigla. All this in the 60s - 70s already passed ...
                        Quote: Beck
                        One way or another, but involuntarily, Russia is contributing to the emergence of some kind of Nicago but its own aircraft industry in China.

                        Yes, it did. 50 years ago, Russia built it in China. And the MiG production has adjusted. So where are the Chinese super cars? You somehow ignored this question ...
                        Quote: Beck
                        Now, clumsy, but his fighter 5 generation made.

                        This is not true. They made it ours. J-20 is a product of 1.46 Sukhoi and SibNIA. It seems that you really answer without reading what they write to you.
                        Quote: Beck
                        And so in everything

                        Yes, that's the way it is. In addition to copying existing samples, China cannot do anything. And all those fears that you express, were expressed then. They do not have a scientific school.
                        Quote: Beck
                        And more dangerous, in the future, the beast than the Chinese Dragon and not to find.

                        Yes, Americans really want to inspire us with this idea, But we, realizing the danger from these two parties, just want to close them to each other. And always support the weak so that they are at work. I can repeat it again, if that ... smile
                      3. Beck
                        Beck 24 October 2012 19: 41
                        -1
                        Uncle Seryozha.

                        Officially. You have your own point of view. I can find my link if you dig. This is not a scientific school now, so I didn’t talk about it now. I do not need to repeat the same thing.

                        Time will tell. But in 30 years, China has made the leap from non-existence into the second economy of the world. And what will happen in another 30 years?

                        But your position is clear to me. If only that, but only so that America stumbles.

                        Okay, thanks for the conversation.
                      4. Uncle Serozha
                        Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 19: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: Beck
                        if you dig, you can find a link.

                        I will be grateful. I have not heard about the supply of MiG shipments to China in this century.
                        Quote: Beck
                        This is not a scientific school now, so I didn’t talk about it now.

                        They all said the same thing in the 50-60s. Soviet universities were full of Chinese students. We built the aircraft industry for them, set up the production of missiles and tanks, and trained personnel of designers and scientists. And since then? Never mind. They continued to produce the MiG-19 (ours adjusted it) and it took them 20 (!) Years to copy the MiG-21, which ours delivered as samples with documentation. They could not create anything fundamentally new.
                        Quote: Beck
                        But in 30 years, China has made the leap from non-existence into the second economy of the world

                        China made NO leap. It is Western companies that organized their production on its territory. That's all.
                        Quote: Beck
                        And what will happen in another 30 years?

                        The same as in the previous 30. They will collect what they were taught to collect;
                        Quote: Beck
                        But your position is clear to me. If only that, but only so that America stumbles.

                        You, in my opinion, have not read what I wrote. And I wrote exactly what China and the USA should stumble. Accept - about each other. We support the weak side, we do not allow anyone to have an advantage. Well read what I wrote in the end!
                        Quote: Beck
                        Okay, thanks for the conversation.

                        Mutually. hi
                      5. Cynic
                        Cynic 24 October 2012 20: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                        just want to close them to each other.

                        But comrade Mao needs to be quoted for sure, otherwise they may be suspected of plagiarism
                        "A clever monkey sits at the top of a hill and watches two tigers fight in the valley."

                        So said the Great Helmsman.
                        Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                        When were "lots of MiGs" sold to China ??? (with the exception of the 50s / 60s ???) Can I get a link?

                        There were negotiations, but again twenty-five: Take forty, but first pay for the first ten, no five, and generally better for two.
                        Our suggested: Better yet
                        money in the morning, chairs in the evening or money in the evening, and chairs the next day in the morning.

                        And there was SILENCE.
                        As for the reference, here are several articles on this topic published if you can search and find.
                      6. klavyr
                        klavyr 24 October 2012 19: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Beck
                        And more dangerous, in the future, the beast than the Chinese Dragon and not to find.

                        but in China, hands are chopped off for theft and cultivate the Soviet experience
  38. karimbaev
    karimbaev 24 October 2012 14: 52
    +1
    all show off !!!!!!!!!! blah blah show type! wink
  39. Arkan
    Arkan 24 October 2012 15: 14
    0
    Well, how it will be - time will tell. In the meantime, I would like to know - Russian mobilization plans provide for the recruitment of volunteers from the near abroad during the threatened period? If "YES" - please answer in full: Where? To whom? What to have with you? (And then suddenly a war, or some other event))))
  40. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 24 October 2012 15: 15
    +2
    "- If at least one Turkish soldier crosses the Syrian border, Russia will react very harshly.
    - This is a threat? For us, this is unacceptable.
    - Think as you want, I said my word. "

    Why discuss gossip, becoming like grandmothers in the mound.
  41. qwerty_zxc
    qwerty_zxc 24 October 2012 15: 59
    0
    Yes, no one will block the gas or whore stream to Turkey. don't you really know a kremlyad?
  42. prototype
    prototype 24 October 2012 16: 51
    +2
    Turkey is far from being the main main player for Russia, and this situation should not cause much attention if Turkey takes serious steps i.e. the entry of troops into Syria, it will be the last decision of the entire ruling elite of this country, and for some reason, because the first step of Russia is the end of deep relations and the cancellation of all communications with Turkey 20% of their population lives at the expense of the Russians and they won’t really give a shit about them all they need to eat, the Kurds will not miss a chance not much, but sensitively. gas and oil will cut off unambiguously Azerbaijan will not risk Azerbaijan will not take Georgia as an example, Turkmenistan will not risk either Kazakhstan will squeeze them, so it will remain or stop or go to the point of absurdity, and this is the capture of Syria under the NATO flag, but who will do it and will not allow it NATO doesn’t need such a thing for them ... well, it’s not far from the exchange of nuclear slap in the face, so all this PONTS will be at the border, fart in a puddle and enough. You can work out an American loan and you can play songs.
    1. Beck
      Beck 24 October 2012 17: 16
      -2
      Mammoth and Prototype.

      Why did you show up at the end. Above, one should speak such sound words.
  43. SIT
    SIT 24 October 2012 17: 40
    +2
    Quote: Karish
    Syria is not autonomy of Russia and I don’t understand why everything is torn so belly here,

    The shortest route to Tehran is from the northern Iraqi region of Mosul through Tabriz and further along the transport corridor through Zanjan and Qazvin. An alternative is to run through the fortified areas of the Iranian-Iraqi war, where every meter has been shot since that time. If Syria remains as it is now, then in the rear of the coalition grouping, which will be concentrated in Mosul at a distance of a day's march, there will be, at worst, the entire Syrian army, and at best, the rear bases of Iran's reconnaissance and sabotage units, which Syria will provide it. Therefore, without resolving the issue with Syria, you cannot get involved in a mess with Iran. Against this background, Mr. Erdogan decided to pull the chestnuts out of the fire with someone else's hands and for this business to put together a new Ottoman Empire. But he seems to have no idea with whom he sat down to play at the same table. As a result, all the chestnuts will be forced to pull it out, and at the same time they will be left with empty pockets, depriving them of income from tourism and the supply of vegetables and fruits to Russia, so as not to climb across the United States into the heat. Now is the time for him to stop and do everything so as not to get into this storm at all, just as Turkey managed to avoid all the "delights" of World War II. As for Iran, it is also not the ultimate goal. Next comes our turn and China. As a result, amid the global controlled chaos, only one stronghold of stability, freedom and democracy will remain - the United States. And of course everyone will forget about all the debts because I would not live to be fat. So the English proverb don't ask for whom the bell calls - it calls for you is just about Russia and the situation in Syria.
    1. Beck
      Beck 24 October 2012 18: 07
      -1
      .
      Quote: SIT
      The shortest route to Tehran is from the northern Iraq region of Mosul via Tabriz and further along the transport corridor through Zanjan and Qazvin. An alternative is to shove through fortified areas since the Iranian Iraq war, where from that time every meter was shot.


      Respected. You have compiled the general features of a land operation to occupy Iran. But such a task was not set and not set by the West.

      The task of the West is not the occupation of Iran, not the displacement of the ayatollahs from power, but TO PREVENT Iran’s appearance of nuclear weapons. Therefore, there will be no deployment of troops to Iran. It’s more expensive for itself both in terms of manpower losses and monetary costs. If necessary. The USA is pulled to the shores of Iran, from the side of the Indian Ocean 4-5 Carrier Shock Groups. And they will bomb Iran’s nuclear infrastructure to pieces. And let the Iranians continue to live, even with ayatollahs, even without ayatollahs, their business. The task will be completed - Iran will not take possession of nuclear weapons. All. Point. The end.
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 24 October 2012 18: 28
        +4
        You can learn about the events in modern Libya from the news.
        Quote: Beck
        And they will bomb Iran’s nuclear infrastructure to pieces.

        And this is aggression and the collapse of the entire modern security system. (How many weapons have the United States found in Iraq? Why isn’t they looking in Israel?). From this moment on, the time will come for the principle of “who is stronger and is right.” And it will not be limited to NATO bombing, when was this? They will push their puppets into power in Iran by all means.
        1. Kshatriy
          Kshatriy 24 October 2012 21: 11
          0
          Quote: Arkan
          They will push their puppets into power in Iran by all means.

          + + + + + + + + + + + +
          And there will be pogroms ----------- they will be ..... they will certainly be ......
      2. Flooding
        Flooding 24 October 2012 19: 34
        +1
        Quote: Beck
        The task of the West is not the occupation of Iran, not the displacement of the ayatollahs from power, but TO PREVENT Iran's appearance of nuclear weapons.

        Ulusbek, you are wrong. This is not the end of the matter.
        After amers, it is necessary to leave, if not a state controlled, then a controlled disorder.
        They will also need a war for territory on the information field and promotion to the first roles of puppet political figures.
        1. Beck
          Beck 24 October 2012 19: 54
          0
          In a flood.

          I accept the return ball. Why not be limited. Why amers spend money on some kind of control. The question of the lead is to not give Iran nuclear weapons, and not about occupation. Let them live as they want. But without nuclear weapons.
      3. Kshatriy
        Kshatriy 24 October 2012 21: 07
        +1
        [quote = Beck] TO PREVENT Iran's appearance of nuclear weapons. [/ quote
        Explain to me in plain language, without idiomatic expressions, why the country of Israel can have Ya.O, and Persam is not permissible ???????????????????????
        1. Beck
          Beck 25 October 2012 08: 59
          -1
          Kshatriya.

          Officially, Israel has no weapons. No one has officially announced this. But de facto everyone knows that Israel has it.

          Now, why the possession of Israel nuclear weapons constitutes a much smaller evil. Since 1948, Israel has only been doing that it has fought off the aggression of the superior forces of its neighbors. The most critical was 1973, when the existence of Israel hung in the balance. And Israel needs nuclear weapons as a RETAINING factor, because Israel will never be able to set up an army in size equal to the Arab armies. There will be no massive invasion of Israel and nuclear weapons Israel will never apply.

          Israel never said that such a state has no right to exist. That such and such people need to be destroyed.

          The Iranian leadership has repeatedly stated that Israel must be destroyed, that Jews must be drowned in the sea. Iranian ayatollahs said they would establish a NEW ISLAMIC ORDER around the world. And these are all officials. This is not Vanka drunk blurted out.

          It is because of such wicked positions that the world community does not want Iran to have nuclear weapons. And his spiritual leaders waved an atomic club while supporting religious, obscurantist extremism.

          Islamic Pakistan has nuclear weapons and the world is calm. And why?. Yes, because not one Pakistani leader does not say that such a state should be wiped off the face of the earth. Or destroy such a people. And they did not declare that they would establish a new Islamic order in the world. And they fight extremism as they can.
  44. Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 24 October 2012 18: 20
    0
    I am proud of the President!
  45. klavyr
    klavyr 24 October 2012 19: 26
    0
    - If at least one Turkish soldier crosses the Syrian border, Russia will react very hard.
    - This is a threat? For us, this is unacceptable.
    - Think as you wish, I said my word.

    even if this conversation is fiction, then if you imagine its possibility, the meaning will not change good
    1. Yasen Ping
      Yasen Ping 24 October 2012 20: 09
      +1
      I also thought so, even if the article is fiction, then there is a stuffing ... but it makes sense to think for many. And there is still a thought, if Assad has not fallen so far, then we, or Iran or someone else, are helping him, no one will say how officially, let’s recall Korea, Vietnam and so on, we weren’t officially there)))
  46. SAVA555.IVANOV
    SAVA555.IVANOV 24 October 2012 19: 34
    +2
    It is also necessary for Ukraine to stop selling metal and cast iron to Turkey, to "pressurize" its neighbors to a peaceful policy. We ourselves are "raising" the future enemy.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 24 October 2012 19: 37
      +2
      Quote: SAVA555.IVANOV
      It is also necessary for Ukraine to stop selling metal and cast iron to Turkey

      What about the forest? Coal? But there's nowhere to go, business is business.
      1. SAVA555.IVANOV
        SAVA555.IVANOV 24 October 2012 20: 12
        +3
        Every minute the plane lands or takes off, the shores are shining, factories are being built, people are already going there to work, our women marry Turks, support the Crimean Tatars in the struggle for Crimea. This is not quite a business, this is a future enemy rising, this is our "castle" in the Mediterranean Sea, we should not expect anything good from this
  47. Blat
    Blat 24 October 2012 19: 40
    +1
    for example, if the Turks enter the territory of Syria, then nothing will happen. And Russia will convene an emergency meeting of the UN and the Turks will be right and that’s all to calm down
    1. SAVA555.IVANOV
      SAVA555.IVANOV 24 October 2012 20: 17
      0
      And it would be a good occasion to test old missiles in foreign territory, and expand the sphere of influence.
    2. DRY
      DRY 24 October 2012 20: 21
      +1
      everything can be, but I think that the Turks will not do this because may lose all tourists not only from Russia but also from other countries, and this is a large influx of $. But this is purely my opinion hi
    3. Joshhn
      Joshhn 25 October 2012 05: 02
      0
      It will happen, of course, the confrontation between Russia and Turkey will not reach the military, but we have leverage, the review already spoke about the same tourism and energy, for a start this will be more than enough.
  48. Fox
    Fox 24 October 2012 20: 43
    +2
    so, I did not understand, Putin spoke or not?
    1. upasika1918
      upasika1918 27 October 2012 23: 02
      0
      Not. And again no. (One word NO does not pass the moderator).
  49. Smsergei
    Smsergei 24 October 2012 22: 19
    +2
    It's time to put in place and the Turks and Americans and Poles, the Baltic states, the Georgians, etc. etc. And then they completely loosened something or forgot about how our tanks were cut across Europe in the 45th. In the course you need to be reminded !!!
  50. segamegament
    segamegament 24 October 2012 22: 24
    +6
    As I understand it, everything goes to this situation ???
    1. xoma58
      xoma58 25 October 2012 12: 32
      0
      Normal alignment!