"Caliber" after opening by American experts: is there any prospect

467
"Caliber" after opening by American experts: is there any prospect

An interesting opinion came from the other side of the ocean. Our good friend Kyle Mizokami, whom we know from publications in many publications, gave out very interesting material. Interesting, but very controversial, and now I'm going to argue with all the zeal.

Mizokami believes that anti-Russian sanctions will completely undermine Russia's ability to create high-precision weapon and thereby compensate for the already used missiles and shells.



It is clear that today American experts have at their disposal many samples of Russian weapons from the territory of Ukraine, including the latest ones, to the greatest regret.

In the United States, there is an opinion that many types of weapons use frankly outdated electronics and even microcircuits and semiconductors produced by Western countries. From this, many experts conclude that the pressure of sanctions will significantly complicate the production of high-precision weapons in Russia, and even after the end of hostilities on the territory of Ukraine (regardless of the result with which they end), Russia will simply restore the pre-war combat capability in terms of stockpiles of high-precision weapons. can not.

Today, US military experts say that even Russia's most high-tech weapons are based on obsolete electronics and imported parts. Today, according to the United States, Russia is not able to produce enough semiconductors needed to create modern weapons systems. Accordingly, Russia will have to use older microchips, including commercial chips imported from the rest of the world.

Due to what Russia will be able to solve the issue with semiconductors and microcircuits - this is a very burning issue, which is of interest to opponents and is obliged to strain everyone in Russia.

Experts from a very specific resource, Conflict Armament Research (CAR), who study and track weapons, have examined the details of several Russian systems.

At the disposal of the experts were ship-based cruise missiles 3M14 "Caliber", shot down in the Khmelnitsky and Ternopil regions, guided missiles 9M544 from the MLRS "Tornado-S" (were captured in Balakliya), aviation X-59 and X-101 missiles.


All these samples came into the possession of American experts, having been handed over to the Ukrainian military. And the Ukrainians received samples as a result of the successful work of air defense, due to technical problems, or trivially trophyed.

CAR specialists, having studied the electronics of the samples that came to them, were surprised by the number of imported electronic components, ranging from elementary semiconductors to SN-99 satellite navigation receivers.


The Americans came to the conclusion that very many blocks in cruise missiles were produced using non-Russian components and were even able to establish the dates of their production. From 2012 to 2020.

Separately, the blocks of the downed Ka-52 helicopter were investigated. There was also a fair amount of imported parts. Experts, however, did not specify from which manufacturing country the components come from.

CAR on its website says that the company's specialists have identified a total of 144 non-Russian manufacturers of more than 650 unique parts / components from Russian weapons systems used in the war in Ukraine.

In addition to missiles, guided missiles and a helicopter, foreign electronics were found in all captured Orlan-3 and Orlan-10 UAVs, military radio stations, and (especially valuable) electronic warfare equipment and systems. The "Khibiny" and "Zoos" that came to the Ukrainian military also gave a lot of information for consideration for American experts.

Based on what they saw, the US concluded that Russia's high-tech manufacturing sector is relatively underdeveloped compared to other large countries, which means that Russia is forced to import semiconductors and other electronics. Importing chips is not out of the ordinary, but it leaves the Russian military-industrial complex at the mercy of international sanctions aimed precisely at depriving Russia of advanced military technology.

For CAR, the question still remains how European and American chips (and we are talking about such supplies) ended up in Russia. Yes, there is no question of a legitimate sale, most likely, we can say that the sale took place through a number of fictitious shell companies that were organized specifically for the purchase of military equipment or dual-use items abroad.

In this regard, the question can be raised: to what extent can international sanctions undermine Russia's ability to produce new weapons?

Historically, Russia has been very successful in getting its hands on sanctioned equipment. In general, it is worth recognizing that the USSR spent almost the entire time of its existence under sanctions.

And in the eighties, unexpectedly for the same Americans, Soviet submarines suddenly became much quieter. This made it much easier for them to evade detection. The command of the US Navy categorically did not like this and the CIA specialists went into action.

Representatives of this respected at that time structure analyzed this breakthrough in Soviet submarine shipbuilding and found a direct dependence on the sale of CNC machines, coupled with metal processing technologies from the Japanese company Toshiba and the Norwegian Kongsberg. These CNC machines were used to make advanced submarine propellers that reduced the noise the submarine made while underway.

It is clear that neither the Japanese nor the Norwegians could even imagine at that time that their machines were purchased for work in the Soviet Union.

This suggests that in our time everything will be exactly the same.

The only thing that is somewhat surprising in an unpleasant way is the information that the Americans publish openly.

After all, if we take the same Kh-101 strategic cruise missile, which has been in service since 2013. All sources indicate that the missile has been developed since the nineties of the last century and "... has exclusively Russian components, unlike previous generations of these missiles, which had components from the countries of the former USSR."

The Americans testify that this is not the case.

There are two options here. If American experts are lying, then it cannot be said that everything is in order. Of course, the fact that such a weapon fell into the hands of the enemy completely disavows him. In the shortest possible time, the missile will be studied and conclusions will be drawn on how best to counteract it.

If they lied to us (and I think they lied, “import substitution” fairy tales are our reality), then everything is even worse. Because the X-101 will now still have to develop a replacement, a strategic weapon that has been thoroughly studied by the enemy is not a weapon.

But then the question arises: what will the “brains” of the rocket be stuffed with if manufacturers have a limited set of components at their disposal that can somehow be obtained from abroad?

The Americans announced the presence of an imported satellite receiver. Actually, here is the answer to the question of how to neutralize the X-101.

It is difficult to put the X-101 problem on a par with the X-59 problem next to it. The missile has been in service since 1980, and began to be developed in the seventies of the last century. It is no wonder that the electronic part ... is not up to par.

It is clear that over the past time, the X-59 has been repeatedly upgraded. At the disposal of the CAR was the X-59M "Gadfly", equipped with a guidance system "Tekon-1A" with a radio altimeter and TGSN "Tubus-2A" and NAP systems GLONASS / GPS. The appearance in the electronic equipment of the same navigation unit as on other missiles suggests that this is a proven equipment that gives the expected results.

With 3M14 "Caliber" is still more sad. The fact that the rocket aroused interest is understandable. As well as the relative silence of the Americans about it is understandable. In addition to the fact that 3M14 generally got to American specialists, there is no more information, but in itself this is a strong blow to Russia's defense capability. After all, it is one thing to calculate the capabilities of the enemy based on individual data and theoretical calculations, and quite another thing when you have a real sample in your hands.

How in stories with Stinger.

Knowing the architecture of the electronic component of missiles and shells, it will not be difficult for the Americans to develop both countermeasures and calculate further development opportunities.

But we will return to the sanctions.

For half a year, Russia used a very impressive number of cruise missiles and rockets for the Tornado system, missiles for air defense systems. This amount will have to be replaced. Moreover, this requires technologies that Russia may not have. Everything that fell into the hands of their CAR specialists also fell into the hands of the Pentagon. This armament remained in yesterday. The only question is what will happen tomorrow.

“This is late 1990s or mid-2000s technology at best,” said Arsenio Menendez, a NASA contractor who reverse-engineers guided weapon components as a hobby, after examining photographs of Russian military electronics taken by researchers.

In any case, Russia will have to make a breakthrough in the military technologies of the future, since all “modern” developments are a thing of the past. The question is how quickly Russia will be able to get at its disposal technologies that will provide it with the proper level of security.
And to what extent the possibilities for the production of one's own and the extraction of foreign components of electronic systems will satisfy the demand for these components.

While the "Caliber", which was so trumped up in Russia, lies on a table in a research center in the United States, there is still time. But we need to start taking steps forward today.
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  1. Kim
    +69
    29 September 2022 05: 40
    if a rocket on components of the 90s level where it needs to fly and where it needs to hit - is that bad?
    1. +12
      29 September 2022 06: 31
      Well, part of Western electronics will be replaced with their own, part with Chinese. So let's see by the end of the decade.
      1. Kim
        +6
        29 September 2022 06: 35
        too long
        finish by winter
        and in general, who said that Taiwan is necessarily d.b. Chinese? :))))))) /jokingly/
        1. +1
          29 September 2022 06: 45
          Quote from kim
          finish by winter

          The main thing is not to emphasize by the winter of which year you need to finish.
          1. Kim
            +2
            29 September 2022 07: 04
            What's stopping you from focusing? to the upcoming
            1. +5
              30 September 2022 09: 07
              If you do not blur your thoughts on a log, then I would say "everything". Moreover, even "ALL".
              1. Kim
                0
                30 September 2022 09: 52
                I'm sorry, I can't dive that deep
                can you decipher?
                1. +5
                  30 September 2022 10: 06
                  No, if you want - in a personal))) Here - I will refrain. True, recently, suddenly, for some reason, there have been fewer world champions in hitting a satellite with earflaps, however ....
                  1. Kim
                    +2
                    30 September 2022 10: 53
                    Do you think the personal is not visible? you think in vain
                    ok, I understood from the context
                    I won’t even get into the trash with earflaps, but in any case, except for Victory, there are no options
                    1. +2
                      30 September 2022 11: 00
                      But I'm not going to give out secrets for pearls glass wink
                      Just reluctance to respond to hysterical cries, no more. The data is all public feel
                      And there are options. "There are no hopeless situations. There are exits that we do not like" (c)
                      History says that there are ways out. Question - what?))
                      And to discuss options without angles, on the world air - as for me, a little .... funny. And if you get closer to the real world, then you need a psychiatrist, and I am a bit of a technician both in terms of occupation and character. And definitely not a psychiatrist. laughing
                      1. Kim
                        +1
                        30 September 2022 11: 02
                        exactly
                        I don't like another way out
                        I'm a quilted jacket and an imperial :)
                      2. 0
                        1 October 2022 11: 45
                        Quote from kim
                        finish by winter

                        Fuck?
                        So that the EU immediately lifted the sanctions?
                        No, really.
                        It was in February that we fought with fascist Kyiv. And in March - already with NATO.
                        So let them freeze. The worse it is for them, the better for the rest of humanity.
                        By next April maybe.
                      3. Kim
                        -1
                        3 October 2022 03: 41
                        sanctions for a long time
                        in general, the whole batch, as it were, not for decades
                        and Russia has a lot of other tasks that need to be solved quickly
                        plus there is such a thing as "standard deadlines for solving" any tasks
                        Sunday
                        month
                        100 days (blitzkrieg)
                        9 months
                        27 months
                        ----------------
                        Roughly speaking, if you haven’t decided in a month, you will decide in 3 months, in 2 it won’t work
                        9 months is the end of November
                      4. 0
                        4 October 2022 16: 14
                        So from the USSR, figures moved to Russia, not in order to create, but in order to buy everything here and there. In general, brains covered with cancer.
              2. -1
                8 October 2022 21: 47
                "Caliber" after opening by American experts:
                Quote from kim
                kim (kim)

                too long
                finish by winter


                How they are missing
          2. +5
            29 September 2022 18: 17
            Reprint of Amer's articles means Skomorokhov.
            Bravo dude, finally...
            And then: - this is mine, not an American order .....
            Finally stopped being shy
            1. +4
              30 September 2022 09: 14
              Quote: Ramzaj99
              Reprint of Amer's articles means Skomorokhov.

              Did you write with a hangover? I'm not a fan of Skomorokhov, but I don't like injustice.
              Not a reprint, but a link, with quotes from the article. It is quite necessary, both the article and the links, to reveal the topic. Skomorokhov correctly touched on this "sore spot" of our military-industrial complex.
              1. +5
                30 September 2022 18: 32
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Did you write with a hangover?

                Don't equalize people.
                Go through the headlines of this scribbler, and then go through the topics that the State Department disperses from tamed hamsters to destabilize the situation, and you will be very surprised at the result .......
                I also recommend turning on the brain and looking at the quantity, quality and topics of his articles and thinking about how one person is able to issue such detailed articles on such a variety of topics. Aviation, tank building, ships, air defense, politics, economics, strategy, tactics and a whole bunch of everything and everywhere he is a specialist who in a couple of days gives out encyclopedic knowledge in an article that highly specialized specialists in these areas will not always give out.
              2. +1
                1 October 2022 11: 25
                This is just information voiced by the Americans.
                Who said they don't lie? And since when can they be considered independent experts?
                Hundreds of electronic components used by our military-industrial complex, but the components are different. It may be imported, but readily available, of such a nature that it is simply impossible to block its supply. But it is also considered a component of foreign production. It is no coincidence that the article does not focus on this.
                All this information may be a simple way to exert informational pressure, which is quite typical behavior for Americans.
      2. +70
        29 September 2022 07: 06
        Electronics is a wonderful thing, of course, but electronics needs control programs. So, historically, it happened that we always had problems with the element base, we went out at the expense of mathematics and programs. General Designer Invincible said about the Stinger MANPADS that the United States is leaving due to an overcomplicated element base, there are no special highlights in the design. Ours had to proceed from the limitations in the element base. In Ulyanovsk, at one time, a microelectronics center was created, there was a scientific research institute "Mars", a radio-tube plant worked. Our "reformers" destroyed precisely these enterprises, it is clear at whose request. The most interesting thing, according to the American words, the radio tube plant is complete crap, and it was almost the first to be brought down. When the MiG-25 hijacked Belenko, the Americans made fun of the aircraft's radio electronics made on lamps. The laughter stopped when the features were removed. My friend from the Research Institute "Mars", and he was in charge of several departments, was thrown out as unnecessary spent material. Both in mechanics and in electronics, there are too many elements, and even complex ones, it’s good.
        There is finally a reason for our president and government to seriously engage in the revival of Russian industry.
        1. +43
          29 September 2022 07: 53
          First, purge those who are engaged in "import substitution", and not real import substitution ...
          1. +27
            29 September 2022 11: 31
            We have a whole generation of managers who, having heard the word "import substitution", think about how, through what loophole these parts in China can be bought and cheaper and the tags re-glued. They do not understand that they can and should produce by themselves.
            It's not their fault, they were brought up that way and they can't do it any other way.
            1. +7
              29 September 2022 23: 27
              No, it's just their fault. Let them answer and return what was stolen in three times the minimum amount
              1. +6
                30 September 2022 00: 04
                It is not harmful to dream, it is harmful not to dream. Who to believe? Either they write "for health", "for the rest". And if “really”, everything is on the verge of a “grand nix”, then I would like to ask: “Isn't it time to introduce wartime laws?”. And finally, we will transfer all the guilty to another, less responsible job.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. +8
              30 September 2022 01: 00
              Yes, this is not the fault of thieving managers, it is our common fault that since the damned 90s we have prioritized lawyers, economists and managers of all stripes, and not talented techies:
              engineers, designers, technologists, why are we now surprised that we had to buy almost everything abroad, after the destruction of our industry by the Yeltsin gang of traitors and scoundrels.
              1. 0
                30 September 2022 15: 56
                gang of traitors and scoundrels.

                Under Brezhnev, there were many co-authors (whether they were wrong).
          2. +6
            29 September 2022 12: 20
            Quote from: starik-an
            First, purge those who are engaged in "import substitution", and not real import substitution ...
            Stay without missiles, and that's it. Do you want to replace imports? So start making it yourself, they will buy it from you and adapt it to the rocket (if it fits there). A rocket manufacturer has the same attitude to microcircuits as you do, it is not at all easier for him to create them.
            1. 0
              30 September 2022 14: 19
              The plant that produces the finished rocket mainly assembles, but not electronics, optics and other systems. If the task is to produce, then the managers of the enterprise will purchase the necessary parts wherever possible and impossible. This must be understood.
          3. 0
            30 September 2022 18: 23
            And what if we carry out import substitution by banning helium exports?
          4. icy
            +1
            30 September 2022 20: 54
            Everything is not easy, the import substitution of electronic elements is underway, but sometimes you have to use imports that are allowed by the Ministry of Defense, the list is constantly shrinking. Currently, developers more often use modern domestic elements, although imported analogues are still allowed for use. In production, they can supply imports or a Russian equivalent - what is in stock. All this is strictly carried out, tk. the development process takes place under the control of the VP representatives.
          5. -1
            4 October 2022 14: 21
            Correctly. Time to go back to 1937
        2. +27
          29 September 2022 08: 09
          What reason and who to think about? Today in Notepad they wrote that the military-industrial complex factories are closing and going bankrupt about 13 car repair shops, for the production and repair of MLRS and some other things. And you are appealing to those who do this. Instead of factories, they will open shopping centers, and you write about thoughtfulness. Traders in their repertoire. They will sell their mother. They have already sold their father.
          1. 0
            4 October 2022 00: 51
            "... The Ministry of Defense of Russia, represented by the Spetsremont structure, which was declared bankrupt back in 2019. However, Spetsremont itself passed to the Ministry of Defense for debts of 12 billion rubles on undelivered military equipment. This was announced in 2017 by the Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu said in the State Duma: JSC "Spetsremont" owed the department about 22 thousand units of military equipment. As a result, the troops never received it, and 12 billion "dissolved."
            https://bloknot.ru/e-konomika/korruptsiya-ili-predatel-stvo-pochemu-pochti-dva-desyatka-oboronny-h-predpriyatiya-likvidiruyut-v-period-provedeniya-svo-991699.html

            And here many blame our fighters for 20 units of abandoned armored vehicles ...
            20 thousand do not want?
        3. +22
          29 September 2022 08: 12
          There is finally a reason for our president and government to seriously engage in the revival of Russian industry.

          Isn't it time for the president to start taking an interest in the work of the government, several of whose compositions sang songs about import substitution?
          1. +26
            29 September 2022 12: 09
            Quote from: laws70
            Isn't it time for the president to start taking an interest in the work of the government, several of whose compositions sang songs about import substitution?

            Yeah, right now ... It was the president who conducted this choir. And he also recruited singers. And he said more than once that he was pleased with their songs. Or maybe he wrote them...
            Is he going to step on the throat of his own song? Fresh story....
          2. +3
            30 September 2022 00: 13
            So it seems that on TV day and night they sing "deferambs" to the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation Mishustin and his deputies and ministers. They say everything is in order, the mosquito will not undermine the nose. So far, the NWO is going according to plan.
        4. +9
          29 September 2022 08: 15
          If modern microcircuits and transistors hold some radiation, then the lamps are generally beyond any competition. They have this radiation up to one place. Yes, and in terms of signal levels, noise immunity is higher. done, the main thing is they hit the target.
          1. +2
            29 September 2022 22: 53
            Trained hamsters to plant in control units. laughing
            1. +3
              30 September 2022 00: 16
              Their "import-substituted", or "import" from the Republic of China.
            2. 0
              8 October 2022 20: 06
              Trained hamsters in control boxes

              In the United States, there was a "dove of peace" project with live pigeons inside an aerial bomb that pecked at the screen, pointing the bomb at the ship. But after success in the production of microcircuits, this miracle weapon was written off.
          2. +2
            29 September 2022 23: 10
            Lamp technology is heavy, and there are still doubts about vibration resistance.
            1. +10
              30 September 2022 00: 58
              For military equipment, subminiature ceramic-metal lamps were produced, for example, civilian counterparts - the 6N55S, 6S17K series, etc. They were and are quite reliable products ...
            2. +1
              30 September 2022 04: 39
              You can’t make complex circuits on lamps, they take up a lot of space, and they consume food many times more.
          3. 0
            30 September 2022 01: 48
            They have this radiation to one place

            And a lot of that radiation in Ukraine???
            And don't you think that if the question of radiation protection comes up, it's already too late? The strategic vigorous loaf has already started and arrived - to fight for what purpose and with whom?
          4. 0
            1 October 2022 16: 47
            So it is, but just compare the size of the radio on the lamps and the one that fits on the chip in the phone.
          5. +1
            2 October 2022 16: 21
            The equipment of true high-fi class music lovers, exclusively on lamps, and costs like a car ...
          6. 0
            20 October 2022 19: 04
            Quote: Taimen
            If modern microcircuits and transistors hold some radiation, then lamps are generally beyond any competition. They have this radiation up to one place. Yes, and in terms of signal levels, noise immunity is higher.

            Well, not so. Radiation-resistant microcircuits were produced in Ukraine. They were put on ballistics and everything that could carry yao. It was a quasar micro and graviton plant, they worked and sold RF circuits until almost 17 years. Tests for radiation resistance were carried out at QAS, rejection after irradiation of approximately 70%.
        5. +5
          29 September 2022 12: 30
          Vacuum tubes of the 70s were reliable and easy to change. I, not being a specialist in radio engineering, changed burned-out lamps on TVs several times; I had to go to the store and buy a new one (in extreme cases, the radio market). Now I would have to buy a new TV!
          1. +2
            30 September 2022 00: 48
            A new universal board, the only one on the TV - costs 1500r. It is not much more difficult to replace a lamp.
            1. +1
              30 September 2022 09: 10
              But, as practice shows, it is much more expensive))) The service of household appliances is, in general, such a peculiar thing. At this rate, soon everything else will be the same
        6. +6
          29 September 2022 13: 14
          Quote: 2112vda
          So, historically, it happened that we always had problems with the element base, we went out at the expense of mathematics and programs.

          Judging by the recent series of articles about Soviet computers, there were no less problems with software. The same decision to copy Western hardware was made based on the possibility of running Western programs on it.
          1. Kim
            +2
            30 September 2022 04: 21
            Have you also read Sperry?
            with some tendentiousness - everything is so, everything is rather sad :(
            1. 0
              30 September 2022 09: 14
              If only... (What a wonderful word, isn't it? There are only two of these filthy officials, exhausting the entire national history. But.... and If only..... it's funny, isn't it?)) Duc, if in the country they were doing business and not ..... building communism and other nonsense - everything was rather gloomy there, but there were also ways to ..... some)) improvement. Moreover, CSBH, without any hitmen, now fashionable and other reptilians ... And then the second one pops up))) But .....
              1. Kim
                0
                30 September 2022 09: 53
                the redskins did not answer for another 27 million
                and for cannibalism
                however, "even the gods cannot make the former into the non-existent"
                alas :(
                1. 0
                  30 September 2022 10: 09
                  No, these searches are without me. It's boring, sir .... Everywhere there are different arithmetic signs "+" there or "-" ..... You can, of course, do summation of them, but life is boring ...
                  And about those same millions - so everything messed up there. Among other things, we had such an alignment. Which, of course, does not justify, but .... explains.
                2. The comment was deleted.
        7. +5
          29 September 2022 13: 26
          Therefore, the "partners" laid, and are laying, with the hands of voluntary assistants (bought with giblets), and even outright idiots, mines under the Russian education.
          1. +1
            30 September 2022 09: 18
            And all the rest, patriotic, gobble up three throats and do not choke. And questions, ChSH, do not ask. Bad luck?
            Moreover, they talked about the fact that in the formation of a glove compartment, sir, even before the initiation, CHSK, from above, reforms to "optimize". Sbsssno, as in medicine and in other places. Moreover, quite accessible, not academic words. And what did the venerable leadership do? But that's what it did .... And now I will allow myself the question - who are these very "voluntary assistants (bought with giblets), or even outright idiots" ?? Can you tell me the answer, by any chance?
            1. +2
              30 September 2022 10: 26
              All cheat sheets and tips needed? What? Bruised by post-Soviet education?
              1. 0
                30 September 2022 11: 03
                Dear, my education is the most Soviet. And not just crusts. Although there are a lot of questions to him as well ....
                Unlike you, because the Soviet one, "the best in the world" did not teach the campaign how to think. Either some kind of VSPSH or a suitable other shop .... Although decent people met there, however, rarely
                1. -1
                  30 September 2022 11: 20
                  Didn't teach you how to think? Sadly. But as the Pashtuns said, "what Allah did not give, the mullah will not give." hi
                  1. -1
                    30 September 2022 11: 32
                    She, my dear, did not teach you to think. And, unfortunately, read. That is, you know the letters, but to understand what the letters depict - alas ....
        8. +1
          29 September 2022 14: 54
          "that the United States is leaving due to the overcomplicated element base"
          From a technical point of view, this is a much more efficient way: standardization (which requires recomplication) allows you to produce large batches, and technical complexity forces you to develop and allows you to reuse developments in other areas.
          1. +3
            30 September 2022 01: 56
            From a technical point of view, this is a much more efficient way: standardization (which requires overcomplication)

            Those who understand - absolutely agree with you. In the same computer - or just a processor - there is a lot of everything "superfluous", but it solves the "time to market" problem, and the hardware implementation of 0,01% transistors of easily software-realizable things reduces the time and necessary qualifications of the developer - not to the detriment, on the other hand, quality.
            How many, I remember, in their time, exceptional specialists fucked both with wretched - not at all overcomplicated - circuitry, and with assembler, creating, indeed, "having no analogue ...". What for??? When there are analogues, and the time of such specialists was very valuable even then - and now ... where to get them.
            We didn't have a way out. And now there is no way out - but the same specialists ...
            1. +5
              30 September 2022 02: 08
              I offered my services, but they sent me to some shabby institute :(
              They take into the system solely on the ability to utter beautiful, even if obviously meaningless words. They are still mocking, offering to learn this.
              For example, "experts" selected projects at the Roscongress - 10% are simply physically meaningless, 30% - technically.
              1. +1
                30 September 2022 09: 19
                Nothing new. Everything is dull and old, like this shabby world. Do you think it was different in the dead man, often commemorated with tears in his eyes??
        9. +9
          29 September 2022 15: 46
          Do you think he needs it? Manturov, who frankly failed the development of our industry and import substitution, was promoted, and not put on trial. Rogozin, who sent our space to the trampoline, the same. You'll see for yourself soon.
        10. +6
          29 September 2022 23: 40
          Quote: 2112vda
          the Americans made fun of the electronics of the aircraft made on lamps. The laughter stopped when the features were removed.

          It was analog electronics. Signal processing, communication is all there.
          But this is not the case with digital technology. Firstly, it will not take off (weight and size are unacceptable for non-stationary use), secondly, there will not be enough electricity, and thirdly, speed and scalability. Why do you think modern processors are switching to smaller and smaller form factors?
        11. 0
          30 September 2022 08: 18
          My sister worked there on Mars... one of the first to collapse, I confirm.
        12. +3
          30 September 2022 09: 19
          Quote: 2112vda

          There is finally a reason for our president and government to seriously engage in the revival of Russian industry.

          I'm even afraid to imagine how old this is. And they don't even itch. They have no time. We need to think where else to lay the next "flow" and how to call it.
      3. +7
        29 September 2022 08: 41
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Well, part of Western electronics will be replaced with their own

        There is only one question - do you have your own?
      4. +2
        29 September 2022 11: 15
        here they said the release dates of various products from 2012 to 2020
        there are no new products yet in 2021 and 2022 - to draw an analogy
        the question is how many Caliber missiles have been produced since 2012
        if 100 missiles per month - per year 1200 x 10 years = 12 Caliber missiles
        so what that foreign components (!)
        what difference does it make whose production of electronics - missiles fly - targets hit (!)
        maybe in 5 years we will completely switch to our electronics - the process is underway (!)
        in order to save money, purchases of parallel imports continue - this is right
        1. +2
          29 September 2022 11: 48
          Products from earlier years of production are the first to be consumed. This is natural and normal. So it’s not a fact that after 20 years they weren’t produced. I really don't want to think that the contract was fulfilled and production was stopped. A rocket is not a 5,45mm cartridge, the conveyor for their release does not work all the time.
          1. +4
            29 September 2022 11: 56
            the conveyor works constantly according to annual contracts
            just the state defense order is classified - disclosure is not possible
            The US SDGs are still in the know - everyone knows
            for example, according to the Iskander OTRK - a brigade set is introduced annually
            and BC per brigade for 25 full salvos - this is at least 600 missiles
            1. -2
              30 September 2022 09: 23
              yes, yes ... And everything is exactly the same as with those magical modules, isn't it? Proofs were not given to deer due to secrecy, but to whom they were given - like you, for example, they already know everything. And the iskanders, well, just echelons of a rod on the line ..... And they disappear there, in some kind of black hole, because Monsieur Konashenkov somehow rarely pleases us with iskanderization.
        2. 0
          4 October 2022 13: 23
          About 200 calibers were produced per year
          1. -1
            5 October 2022 15: 59
            What are you? The man said - 100 pieces per month ... Five pencils a day. Do you really not believe him, so patriotic and honest? "Today he plays jazz ...." no, that's not our way stop
      5. 0
        1 October 2022 02: 46
        Well, part of Western electronics will be replaced with their own, part with Chinese. So let's see by the end of the decade.
        Reply
        Quote

        You'll have to twist.
        There was such a story with the eagles. Since 2014, Ukrainians have begun to find fallen/downed eagles in the Donbass. They opened, studied, then the supply chains of "dual-use components" suddenly broke off. But anyway, production continued. Or they found a new channel for the supply of the same components, or were replaced by others.
        Production was naturally delayed.

        If everything is really as sad as the author writes (there are so many imported components, and in all weapons), then delays in deliveries cannot be avoided. Too much to replace.

        With electronics, things are not very good.
        Everything is like in the good old times of the Cold War: the Russian Federation "produces" Western technologies using all kinds of "schemes", the West extracts Russian natural resources, also using dubious schemes, such as buying "Turkish oil mixture".
        At one time, the states bought titanium for the rs-71 through shell companies.
    2. +6
      29 September 2022 06: 52
      Actually, if we talk about "there is still time", then this is not entirely true. The fact is that countermeasures can be developed much faster than developing "brains" based on "our" components. - for this you need to create an industry of these "components", and this is not a matter of one year and perhaps not even a dozen years in the conditions of existing sanctions.
      1. +12
        29 September 2022 08: 12
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        for this it is necessary to create an industry of these "components"

        If we are under sanctions all the time, a reasonable question arises: What have we been doing all this time to create our own microelectronics? Looking for someone to buy, why do? I think during this time it was possible to rebuild the factories for its production. One feels the anti-work of the company Manturov and K.
        1. +7
          29 September 2022 13: 35
          Quote: SKVichyakow
          I think during this time it was possible to rebuild the factories for its production.

          If only it was easy and fast...
          the end of July, 2022 it became known of approval by the US Senate of the bill which is directed to support of domestic producers of electronics. Support is provided through tax cuts in relevant industries and funding for research organizations that are engaged in specialized projects. In addition, funds are allocated for the construction of factories that will produce semiconductor elements and electronic systems. True, if in the case of China, more than a trillion US dollars were allocated, as mentioned above, then the United States decided to allocate $52 billion for its program. For this country, such an amount is not very large, but perhaps the government hopes that domestic companies will invest funds for the development of their own plants and factories.

          China allocates a trillion for this, the United States - 56 billion (and this is not entirely for the industry, but only for the construction of modern factories). This is a huge investment, this is decades of hard work, this is constant research and huge expenses for it every year...
          1. +8
            30 September 2022 02: 06
            China allocates a trillion for this, the US - 56 billion

            I must add that, unfortunately, it is not only money. And also personnel - including Chinese, Iranians, Russians - who graduated from the corresponding faculties in America-Canada and work slightly outside their specialty - due to the previous drift of semiconductor production to China ... I myself spoke with such people at conferences ...
            And cadres, as Comrade Stalin correctly said, decide everything.
            Here we have a problem with this.
            The less education our compatriots have, the more they believe in "secret physicists", secret developments, brilliant breakthroughs.
            1. +3
              30 September 2022 08: 21
              Quote from tsvetahaki
              The less education among compatriots,

              Well, who is to blame for this, that even in this matter we have slipped to the bottom?
          2. +3
            30 September 2022 02: 19
            In China, I am sure: they can cut any money on complex engineering activities and without any result.
            I speak as a specialist, I saw an indescribable systemic absurdity at a high level.
            By the way, they have already drank more than a hundred billion without any result.
            1. +2
              30 September 2022 08: 24
              Quote: NG inform
              I speak as a specialist, I saw an indescribable systemic absurdity at a high level.

              But this is closer to the truth. Such managerial sawflies are best suited for logging, but not at work in government agencies.
              1. +3
                30 September 2022 12: 48
                I didn’t talk about state structures. It was inside the corporation, and this is a nationwide problem for them:
                1. The boss is always right. Chiefs can carry utter absurdity, subordinates will go to perform. If they don't comply, there will be problems. The result, in fact, is not important - it is important to execute the order.
                2. Extreme individualists. Horizontal connections are minimal. The company has 20 departments that solve the same problem. The task is extremely difficult and it needs to be solved together, but no - it is believed that in the competition there will be some unique ones who will do everything this way. But it doesn't work like that.
                3. High confidence in formal metrics. I don’t want to load my head, so with me: for 10 lyams in a foreign jurisdiction they bought a project from demonstrative scammers. Well, what - they have 10 patents (fake), a publication in a world magazine (purchased) and a demo (in 2000 they did better).
                In total, the epic with chip building began a long time ago, more than a hundred billion were invested as of 2019 - and it all resulted in the fact that some schoolchildren rented factories, promised a lot, but the final result was zero.
              2. +1
                2 October 2022 16: 52
                With the difference that in the PRC such wise men are regularly put on their knees and a free 7.62 cartridge is allocated from the state ...
                Our Chubais travel the world, and Ragozins are looking for new positions ...
          3. +4
            30 September 2022 09: 29
            Quote: Doccor18

            Quote: SKVichyakow
            I think during this time it was possible to rebuild the factories for its production.

            If only it was easy and fast...

            How many years has Putin been in the presidency? And Manturov did not become a minister yesterday either.
            So, they had time for a wagon and a small cart. There were also funds - count how many gold and foreign exchange reserves the Europeans and mattresses froze.
            There was no desire, or the brains worked in the wrong direction.
            1. +3
              30 September 2022 09: 51
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              So, they had time for a wagon and a small cart. The funds were...

              Yes, it is clear.
              It’s just that many people write / believe that they will take up import substitution - it’s like taking up doing exercises every day in the morning (I wanted to and did it). Alas, even the presence of huge financial opportunities and desire will no longer be able to solve all the pressing problems. We need industrial capabilities, we need our own machine tool building, we need research institutes, we need masses of engineers and skilled workers, we need developed science and education ... But all this is developed over decades of hard work, not just for "decades", but for "decades of hard work" .
              1. +2
                30 September 2022 10: 10
                Oh. And it breaks, with perseverance, in a couple of years .... And here, with perseverance, everything was fine.
              2. +2
                30 September 2022 15: 55
                Quote: Doccor18
                We need industrial capabilities, we need our own machine tool industry, we need scientific research institutes, we need masses of engineers and skilled workers, we need developed science and education..

                Yes, this is understandable. You desire to do this not in words but in deeds, see?
          4. +1
            8 October 2022 21: 07
            Quote: Doccor18
            If only it was easy and fast...

            If they know it's not easy or fast, why didn't THEY think about it sooner?
            1. 0
              9 October 2022 10: 54
              There are imports, parallel imports...
        2. +1
          29 September 2022 17: 09
          Quote: SKVichyakow
          What have we been doing all this time to create our own microelectronics?

          Destroyed, as sad as it sounds. Although they say there is some kind of program to bring the industry out of the crisis, the patient is more dead than alive, in general, so far in a coma. There is hope, but not much. One of the reasons they are up there dreaming of something like investment or just some kind of lobuda. What is needed is simply the will of the state to build factories based on the component base, and the most ordinary state-owned factories. Since a private trader will not pull it in the first place, and secondly, no one will invest money where there are huge payback periods, and it is unlikely that it will ever pay off. How would it
        3. +2
          29 September 2022 20: 30
          If we are under sanctions all the time, a reasonable question arises: What have we been doing all this time to create our own microelectronics? Looking for someone to buy, why do? I think during this time it was possible to rebuild the factories for its production.

          In what time?
          To print chips you need lithographic equipment
          To make lithographic equipment, you need to build >50 factories.
          And that may not be enough.
          Now any country in the world alone is not capable of making lithographic equipment.
          Holland + many other countries have joined together to make lithographic equipment.
          You need a lot of engineers, you need a lot of factories to build from scratch.
          This is only lithographic equipment.
          And a lot more is needed.
          Need machines for the production of displays. How to make them?
          The same needs a lot of engineers and factories.
        4. Kim
          +1
          30 September 2022 04: 23
          not all the time
          under hard - really since February
          1. +3
            30 September 2022 09: 26
            But here you are wrong. It depends on what is considered under the sanctions .... if there are some bans and pieces of paper "issued by a partner in the game" - one calico. If the presence in the government of the country of people who have a hybrid of a jigsaw with a calculator in their pumpkin, and the interaural ganglion atrophied as unnecessary, then since the late 80s ..... It’s quite a time to ruin anything
            1. Kim
              +1
              30 September 2022 09: 55
              as is commonly believed - the inability to buy something abroad
              1. 0
                30 September 2022 10: 12
                Duc and the union could not sell a lot of things))) However ....
                But if you don’t even have the desire to buy ..... Or, as at the end of the same union, having spent the currency and bought it, throw it under the fence ..... Yes, everything is serious here
                1. Kim
                  0
                  30 September 2022 10: 54
                  The Union was not sold unique things, such as the same machines
                  consumer goods - yes, easily, but there was no currency
                  and in the article we are talking about semi-consumer goods, as far as I could understand
                  1. -1
                    30 September 2022 11: 05
                    Union sold unique things. True, much less than he wanted it)))
                    As for consumer goods ... Purely IMHO, but the decision makers ("best-of-all-hidden")) just didn't give a damn about it. I am familiar with some moments from the life of "the first state of workers, peasants, and, naturally, a stratum" ....
        5. 0
          8 October 2022 20: 14
          What have we been doing all this time to create our own microelectronics?

          The topic is very painful. No matter how you twist, but the Russian market is a very small share of the world. And in microelectronics, the cost of not even equipment, machine tools for its construction is very high. Therefore, if there is no export, then the Russian processor will be at least 20 times more expensive. At least - since in the Russian Federation there are more extortions and taxes.
          And since it is more expensive, there will be less demand. And less demand means less production per month.
          The second problem is called micro-oscillations and micro-earthquakes. Roughly, in Zelenograd 100nm is the smallest, because the highway and railway are not far. For ten times smaller - you need to annex Ireland, or rent an island in Malaysia. In principle, there are very "quiet" places in Lithuania, but the Lithuanian SSR is in question.
          Polissya also has some interesting locations for a microchip factory, but placing it on the historical path of all conquerors can be a bad idea.
      2. +1
        29 September 2022 16: 42
        Most of the killings in the world are committed either with knives or AK-47s and there are no particularly effective countermeasures. It’s easier to copy than to create countermeasures, but the Americans already have tomahawks for no reason. In fact, the calibers were created according to the type of tomahawks, so the importance of the fact that the calibers went to the Americans for study is too overestimated.
        1. +2
          29 September 2022 20: 32
          In fact, the calibers were created according to the type of tomahawks

          There the principle is the same.
          There is nothing to study in caliber. Everything has already been studied there.
    3. +3
      29 September 2022 11: 01
      This is what Ukrainians get. But will the air defense of an equipped enemy break through ???
      1. 0
        29 September 2022 16: 19
        Quote: russ71
        But will the air defense of an equipped enemy break through?

        Now the brains need to be reflashed or changed by Caliber.
      2. 0
        29 September 2022 16: 49
        Ancient scuds broke through the air defense, and this is all the more so, especially since the trajectory is not straight and it is possible to reduce especially saturated air defense areas.
        1. 0
          29 September 2022 19: 04
          Quote from DimCorvus
          Ancient scuds broke through the air defense, and this is all the more so, especially since the trajectory is not straight and it is possible to reduce especially saturated air defense areas.

          If earlier these were isolated cases, now it will be on a larger scale. If they don’t take action. In this issue, the one who is generally far from this topic is minus.
    4. -1
      29 September 2022 20: 21
      No, okay.
      The smaller the technological product, the easier it is to produce and replace it.
    5. +4
      29 September 2022 20: 23
      The vast majority of computational ballistics problems can be solved on processors of the Intel 8086/87 level, and they are still in a pile of various Western technology. It is bad when the country's industry does not know how to produce all the electronic piping and the processors themselves. Just as they lagged behind in the 60s, so far Russia has not been able to catch up with the market flagships in microelectronics. The USSR stopped copying Western chips just on the Intel 8086, theoretically, you can try to produce it. But in the Russian Federation there is still no way to produce RAM chips.
    6. 0
      30 September 2022 01: 44
      if a rocket on components of the 90s level flies where it needs to and where it needs to ....

      It simply means that the anti-missile component in 2022 will shoot it down when it needs to.
      If the legendary Berdan rifle, which has almost no analogues in the world, runs on black powder, which can be made without chemical plants, and kills whoever is needed, this does not mean that it needs to arm a modern army.
    7. -1
      30 September 2022 23: 26
      Separately, the blocks of the downed Ka-52 helicopter were investigated. There was also a fair amount of imported parts. Experts, however, did not specify from which manufacturing country the components come from.


      France, Sagem company

      And others of course.
    8. -1
      4 October 2022 05: 57
      It got in while the technology was secret, now NATO will develop missile defense systems and nullify the effectiveness or reduce it significantly.
    9. 0
      6 October 2022 04: 38
      This is good. Putin said that we would go the simple and cheap way. I can imagine what faces Western electronics experts had that we hit targets with weapons with their chips. I hope the MO stocked up on these freely available chips for years to come. No secrecy, super bells and whistles for which Western manufacturers milk their customers. Everything is to the point and to achieve the result.
  2. +13
    29 September 2022 05: 47
    Because the X-101 will now still have to develop a replacement, a strategic weapon that has been thoroughly studied by the enemy is not a weapon.
    Knowing the architecture of the electronic component of missiles and shells, it will not be difficult for the Americans to develop both countermeasures and calculate further development opportunities.

    I do not agree with the author that everything is lost. Partly yes, it's annoying. And critical is the study of brains by and large. But architecture and spare parts are one thing, and operation algorithms and software are another. It is clear that one of the other can follow, but everything can be changed on the existing (extracted abroad, including in various ways) element base.
    1. +10
      29 September 2022 06: 30
      Quote: Siberian 66
      I do not agree with the author that everything is lost. Partly yes, it's annoying.

      Exactly hi
      Based on what they saw, the United States concluded that Russia's high-tech manufacturing sector is relatively underdeveloped.
      They made a conclusion, but it is only the blind and stupid who do not see and do not understand.
      It is clear that neither the Japanese nor the Norwegians could even imagine at that time that their machines were purchased for work in the Soviet Union.
      Today is not today for you! As far as I know now, the location of complex equipment is monitored and, if necessary, the machines are turned off to hell!
      1. Kim
        +5
        29 September 2022 06: 34
        The lithograph will still not be sold
        EMNIP, 65 nm semi-underground circled
        1. +20
          29 September 2022 07: 12
          A complete factory at 65nm was brought back in 2008 for Angstrem.
          But the "comrades" from Micron were afraid that their "most modern" chip technology for travel tickets would be seen the century before last and did not allow this line to be launched with their undercover games.
          Then they chose the necessary elements from this equipment and took them for themselves, leaving Angstrem with debts and without a factory.
          But even this did not help Micron to make a sane release of anything at 65 nm.
          1. Kim
            +4
            29 September 2022 07: 18
            I will not argue, quite far from these games
            28 will not sell unequivocally
            1. +4
              29 September 2022 13: 17
              Quote from kim
              I will not argue, quite far from these games
              28 will not sell unequivocally

              Are they really needed in order to fly from point "A" and get to point "B"? wink Maybe the previous generation will suffice?
              1. +1
                29 September 2022 13: 32
                Maybe the previous generation will suffice?

                https://www.militaryaerospace.com/computers/article/16710564/radiation-threatens-avionics-as-chip-geometries-shrink
                Back in 2003, it turned out that high-tech chips do not withstand radiation from the word at all and pose a potential danger in avionics.
                1. +5
                  29 September 2022 13: 47
                  Quote: Bolt Cutter
                  Back in 2003, it turned out that high-tech chips do not withstand radiation from the word at all and pose a potential danger in avionics.

                  Judging by the article at your link, problems with natural radiation began already with 130-nm chips. belay
                  1. -2
                    29 September 2022 14: 09
                    already in 130nm chips
                    Somehow, yes. Now imagine 2nm in a rocket. It's good for smartwatches. And 130 nm in Russia can produce everything.
              2. -9
                29 September 2022 14: 11
                on the X-102 with a thermonuclear warhead of 550 CT, any chip, at least imported at least 150 nm, is enough to strike at the Rovno nuclear power plant
                question, in another the exclusion zone will not be in nano-meters, but in hundreds of kilometers
                X-102 pure thermonuclear rule 777
                but at nuclear power plants a lot of things in tons will go into the atmosphere
                and settle in Poland, Germany, Denmark, Norway - for a hundred (100) years
                but - we will move NATO away from the borders as we wanted
                1. +1
                  30 September 2022 00: 48
                  Did you write for laughs? Where on the outskirts did you see a "threat to the existence" of the Russian Federation? Do not repeat the manuals of the US State Department, it will become easier to live.
              3. -2
                30 September 2022 02: 13
                Are they really needed in order to fly from point "A" and get to point "B"?

                To do this, you need a simple blank, cast iron. But to go around obstacles at a minimum height at high speed, to recognize targets in difficult weather conditions, to have a noise-immune connection to change the route, etc. - for this you need.
                From "A" to "B" the Palestinians are massively firing rockets, with almost zero results.
                1. 0
                  8 October 2022 20: 18
                  the Palestinians are shooting massively with rockets, with the result practically

                  a Palestinian missile costs about $200-$1000 in terms of parts and wages. An "iron dome" anti-missile costs $30. So economically, the Palestinians are doing the right thing. Exhaustion tactics.
                  1. 0
                    9 October 2022 00: 02
                    are doing right. Exhaustion tactics.

                    You know, a Palestinian could eat in Beirut - well, five years ago - for a dollar. And the Israelis leave hundreds in restaurants. And they don't get tired!
              4. Kim
                +1
                30 September 2022 06: 30
                it is likely that 130, or even micron accuracy is enough
                -------------------
                but to develop something new on Pen-4, it seems to me, well, such a "pleasure"
                1. +1
                  30 September 2022 10: 44
                  Quote from kim
                  but to develop something new on Pen-4, it seems to me, well, such a "pleasure"

                  Yes, yes ... in the early 2000s, I had the good fortune to work with Matkad on the 286th, processing the signal from the CCD array (the signal distortion was counted during holographic recording with different intensity distributions over the reference beam cross section). Work - do not beat the recumbent: set the task for the calculation - and sleep, rest ©. smile
        2. 0
          30 September 2022 00: 01
          General IC on 65 nm process more than enough for any weapon! Any type!
      2. +6
        29 September 2022 07: 08
        But with disable the question is interesting.
        In a word, it’s just that the production is not a military commissar, but also a CNC and, in a word, a bunch of fancy equipment, the situation is funny, the brains fly out at the machine (and the machine is just super), paying for repairs is a hell of a lot (business and men are ours - greedy for money)
        In general, they hire some kind of pepper, the edge of a young age. The result, everything works right with a bang and according to deshman.
        In a word hee hee. And a full import allowance for everything and everyone.
      3. 0
        29 September 2022 08: 13
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Quote: Siberian 66
        I do not agree with the author that everything is lost. Partly yes, it's annoying.

        Exactly hi
        Based on what they saw, the United States concluded that Russia's high-tech manufacturing sector is relatively underdeveloped.
        They made a conclusion, but it is only the blind and stupid who do not see and do not understand.
        It is clear that neither the Japanese nor the Norwegians could even imagine at that time that their machines were purchased for work in the Soviet Union.
        Today is not today for you! As far as I know now, the location of complex equipment is monitored and, if necessary, the machines are turned off to hell!

        Everyone is talking about it, but at least one machine was turned off?
        1. +8
          29 September 2022 08: 24
          Quote: Pilat2009
          Everyone is talking about it, but at least one machine was turned off?

          And if they turned it off, where will they write it? Unlike microelectronics, eyewash is at the world level!
          1. +1
            29 September 2022 09: 54
            Believe me, they will beat the hell out of all sorts of service contracts and turn it on and it will work. I gave an example, a guy of about 18 years old, at the most, checked all their electronics on a pussy and everything worked, and he also rolled in a new software.
            1. 0
              29 September 2022 10: 31
              Quote: saigon
              Believe me, they will give a shit about all sorts of service contracts and turn it on and work

              Well, hallelujah! Personally, I don't mind! hi
            2. +2
              29 September 2022 13: 21
              Quote: saigon
              Believe me, they will give a shit about all sorts of service contracts and turn it on and work

              Yes, they did this in the last century. I read how a Japanese radar station was installed in Vladivostok to control and control traffic at sea - and it failed exactly a couple of days after the end of the warranty period. The manufacturer rolled out an invoice, ours, seeing the amount, became discouraged - and repaired it on our own.
      4. +4
        29 September 2022 16: 56
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        As far as I know, the location of complex equipment is now monitored and, if necessary, the machines are turned off to hell!

        I won’t speak for everyone, but, for example, Japanese Mazak metalworking machines have even tougher restrictions: they work only where they are installed. If you try to move it, it will turn off and only the manufacturer will be able to restart it.
        This is done, just in order to exclude their use for the needs of the defense industry.
        1. -2
          29 September 2022 17: 14
          There is an exit for defense. Buy machines for civilian production, install. And after the launch by the manufacturer, convert this workshop into a branch of the defense industry. wink
        2. +1
          29 September 2022 17: 23
          Quote: Ivanchester
          restrictions are even tougher: they only work where they are installed

          Yes, I probably forgot about this limitation. hi
        3. +1
          29 September 2022 20: 36
          Japanese Mazak metalworking machines have even tighter restrictions

          Does anyone make their own machines in the CIS? Or everything purchased?
          1. 0
            1 October 2022 01: 43
            There are Belarusian-Russian CNCs, I don’t remember the name, to be honest, but they produce. A couple of months ago, the exhibition was in Moscow, there is, as it were, a domestic manufacturer in abundance. But the trouble is that there is no full production cycle. Drive to the CNC and many others things have to be purchased.
    2. +5
      29 September 2022 20: 38
      Allow me to disagree with you. Judging by the manufacturing dates of the chips mentioned in the article and the fact that the details of the filling of the calibers are not disclosed, our missiles could have widely used the technologies of FPGAs and processors built on their basis (they have long been widely and quite cheaply sold by Xilinx and Altera). In fact, they allow (this is me for those who do not know what it is) to load a digital circuit of hundreds of thousands of gates in a fraction of a second and it will work like a whole block based on conventional microcircuits. Only now you don’t need to solder anything, everything is designed in the environment. Thus, the very fact of detection of FPGA chips by enemies is unpleasant, but not fatal. Since there can be as many firmware programs as you like (this is the work of electronic programmers) and they can be changed and upgraded as the product develops. The hardware itself does not require changes. And it is obvious that the programs will be different for conventional missiles and for special ones. Buying FPGA chips in the amount of 100 thousand pieces was not a problem at all in the 2000s - they cost 50 bucks each and restrictions were imposed only on super cool ones. I hope that someone took care of the stock of chips for 50-100 thousand Calibers. And studying such iron is like studying children's drawings on a magnetic board. You can only evaluate the approach of the developers in this particular firmware image. But next time it could be completely different.
  3. KCA
    +13
    29 September 2022 05: 50
    The author, apparently, is a great specialist in electronics, knowing the electronic components of a particular product, it means not knowing anything specifically about the product at all, aha, I see a 200 kOhm resistor, which means the rocket flies according to this algorithm - left - right - forward ....
    1. Kim
      +2
      29 September 2022 06: 20
      here you are in vain
      dear R.S. a little lower coryphaeus of all sciences, of course, no one in the Galaxy can compare with that, but also very good
  4. +21
    29 September 2022 05: 53
    Long live GDP! Long live effective managers! Hooray for our science, the best science in the world! Shame on the USSR for producing only rubber galoshes! Honor and respect to the Russian oligarchs!
    1. -20
      29 September 2022 06: 32
      What have you done for the country? Did you trade Montana at the flea market?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. -23
          29 September 2022 07: 15
          Who has been running the country for the last 20 years?


          Over the past 20 years, those people who run the country pulled her out of poverty, banditry, default and war in the 90s!

          20 years ago, our country, selling resources to the West from oil and gas to coal and metal in 1998, was unable to pay %% of its debts!!! This is what friendship with the West and the liberals have brought the country to. The average salary then was 1000 rubles, and the pension was 600 with a dollar of 24 rubles each.

          If it is cheaper to put an imported chip into a rocket, then this is how it should be done, if it is impossible to put an imported one, then we will put our own, but it will be more expensive.

          Less whining and panic.
          1. +17
            29 September 2022 09: 04
            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            20 years ago, our country, selling resources to the West from oil and gas to coal and metal in 1998, was unable to pay %% of its debts!!!

            In 1998, oil cost $12 a barrel, but today it costs $90. There is no merit of Putin and his accomplices in this.


            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            Over the past 20 years, those people who run the country pulled her out of poverty, banditry, default and war in the 90s!

            In 2013, Russia's GDP was 3% of the world's, and in 2020 - 1.75%. This year, according to preliminary estimates, our GDP will fall by 7-8%, while the world GDP will grow by 3%.
            Are you still sure that those who govern Russia know what they are doing?
            1. +2
              29 September 2022 10: 31
              In 1998, oil cost $12 a barrel, but today it is $90.

              So the bet on hydrocarbon trading turned out to be correct

              The country has risen so much due to this
              1. +4
                29 September 2022 14: 02
                Even Captain Obvious would have made this bet.
                The problem is that over the past 22 years, the authorities have not made at least a couple of bets.
                And therefore, as soon as the world price of oil falls (as, for example, in 2008 and 2014), our economy also suffers losses, and the population becomes poorer.
            2. -7
              29 September 2022 11: 59
              In 1998, oil cost $12 a barrel, but today it costs $90.


              On average, in the 90s, oil cost about 18 dollars per barrel, which, taking into account inflation in the dollar, today is equivalent to 50 dollars!!!

              Only in the 90s the country sold oil, sold gas, coal, metals, wood, fertilizers, too, and sold it, and SHOULD!!! YES SO THAT I COULD NOT PAY DEBTS!!!

              And under Putin, not only were the debts paid off, they also accumulated reserves, and salaries and pensions increased 20 times!!! Trips abroad, several cars for a family, their own housing in a mortgage have become the norm under Putin!!!

              In 2013, Russia's GDP was 3% of the world's, and in 2020 - 1.75%.


              This is a trick of mediocrity liberals, firstly, to count everything in dollars, and secondly, to forget that the money supply in dollars has grown a lot and, accordingly, Russia's share of world GDP has sharply decreased.

              And you try to count in the apartments built per year, in millions of tons of harvested grain, in hundreds of thousands of cars produced - the picture will immediately become different !!!

              Are you still sure that those who govern Russia know what they are doing?


              Yes sure.
              1. +6
                29 September 2022 13: 56
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                This is the trick of the liberals-talentless,

                I was taught this trick at the Faculty of Economics of Moscow State University. Lomonosov.
                Would you be modest to tell me where you were taught this science so that I can make sure that I am talking to a professional?

                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                And you try to count in built apartments per year, in millions of tons of harvested grain, in hundreds of thousands of cars produced

                Believe it or not, the State Statistics Committee has already done this. In the meantime, the ruble has not become a world currency, international comparisons have to be made in dollars. And with them everything is the same as I wrote above.
                However, if you stubbornly do not want to notice that the severance of economic ties with economically developed countries leads to a slowdown in the development of the Russian economy, its technological backwardness and a drop in the standard of living of citizens, then this is certainly your right.
                Trips abroad, several cars for a family, their own housing in a mortgage have become the norm under Putin!!!

                Judging by the dynamics of recent months, very soon trips abroad and cars will return to the category of goods available only to the elite.
                1. -5
                  29 September 2022 14: 44
                  I was taught this trick at the Faculty of Economics of Moscow State University. Lomonosov.


                  Ltd ))). Decided to kill the lack of arguments with his regalia?! )))

                  Once again, I am writing to you - count square meters of housing, millions of tons of grain, hundreds of thousands of cars produced in kind, and not in dollars to world GDP !!!

                  For the simple reason that the cost of resources and services is increasing in the world, while in Russia it is much more stable, and the more the world spends on paying for resources and services, the more it is reflected in the GDP of each country and world GDP, and the share of Russia naturally decreases!!!

                  Didn't anyone in the whole Moscow State University tell you about this? ))

                  Then, for graduates of Moscow State University from the Faculty of Economics, I explain with an example that if electricity for Europeans doubled in a year, then its payment doubled, which means that in GDP in the share of European electricity production it increased by 2 times, but this is in dollars, although in kW it remained the same, and in Russia the same part has risen in price by 2%, that is, by the rate of inflation. And so from year to year for all groups of goods!!!

                  A tooth filling in Russia will be done for 2500 rubles, somewhere more expensive, in the USA the same for 2500 dollars, in kind the same service is provided, but in Russia it contributes 50 dollars to GDP, and in the USA 2500 dollars, as much as 50 times more.

                  That is why the GDP of Western countries swells - because the cost of housing, resources and services has increased many times in dollars !!! And statistics on GDP are made on products and clothes, which smooth out the growth of inflation - this is another trick from mediocrity liberals.

                  That is why, with the growth of GDP in Western countries, people complain that life is getting harder, and the authorities are afraid of social protests.

                  But in kind in Russia under Putin -



                  The growth in housing construction is almost 3 times, but under those who were before Putin, housing was built less and less every year!



                  The increase in grain collection is also 3 times, and with those who were before Putin, grain was collected less and less every year!



                  The production of freight cars under Putin has grown 20 TIMES!!! And with those who were before Putin, it fell several times !!!

                  And so on many indicators in physical terms.

                  Under Putin, everything is growing and developing, but before Putin, something was declining, despite the fact that before Putin, resources were sold and reserves were spent and even borrowed.

                  That is why people in Russia are in the majority for Putin, because in reality they see how the country has changed for the better!!!

                  Judging by the dynamics of recent months, very soon trips abroad and cars will return to the category of goods available only to the elite.


                  Don't worry, the West is far from the whole world, there are places to go and we will solve the issue with cars.
                  1. +2
                    29 September 2022 16: 08
                    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                    Ltd ))). Decided to kill the lack of arguments with his regalia?! )))

                    I correctly understood that you have no economic education? And therefore you are not aware of the calculation of GDP at purchasing power parity and are in rather amusing illusions that
                    the same service, but in Russia it contributes 50 dollars to GDP, and in the USA 2500 dollars, as much as 50 times more


                    About 4% inflation is very funny when even the Central Bank registers 14%.

                    During the time Putin was in power, there really was a period when the economy grew dynamically: 2001-2007. But there was no personal merit in this - it was only a combination of the low base effect, high oil prices and the positive consequences of the unpopular reforms that were carried out in the 90s.

                    Don't worry, the West is far from the whole world, there are places to go and we will solve the issue with cars.

                    Have you looked at ticket prices to Turkey or Egypt? For the majority of the population with an average salary of 60 thousand rubles. they are clearly not available.
                    About the same story with cars ... So your radiant optimism, to put it mildly, is not justified.
                    1. +3
                      29 September 2022 17: 44
                      If we slightly forget about non-rubber and still oil and gas workers, then the average salary is not at all 60 tyr, generally speaking. But it is, little things. But why do you interfere with demonstrating patriotism to a comrade?) It’s a necessary and extremely useful thing ... And in general, safe ..... And it doesn’t require special knowledge ......
                      1. -1
                        29 September 2022 19: 45
                        If we slightly forget about non-rubber

                        And if you throw out the castle from the calculation?

                        In the province of permanent chaos and poverty. All decent people moved to Moscow and St. Petersburg long ago. The real life of Russia takes place in the capitals
                      2. -2
                        29 September 2022 21: 07
                        And if you throw out the castle from the calculation?

                        And we have already done it, if you have not noticed ....
                        "Decent" people live everywhere, including in non-rubber. Only there are fewer of them every year.
                        And yes, it’s cool to waste more than half of all the country’s money, given that the so-called capitals themselves earn much less. Parasites do this too.
                        And yet, even Mikhalkov, who was unloved by me, used to say curious things about this place))....
                  2. +2
                    30 September 2022 00: 20
                    I do not like to report sad news, but we will not solve anything with cars. Autoexperts on the radio do not predict anything comforting here. I am racking my brains on how to be, to replace imports through Armenian transporters, or to buy a three-door "Niva" from a dealer at the price of a one-room apartment near the industrial zone, or to drive my own until it falls apart and sell it "for how much will they charge"? It’s a pity the state didn’t nationalize this taz-prom in 2008, they gave money to these managers, but they all blew it and, in gratitude, the prices break for ferrous metal on wheels.
                  3. +1
                    4 October 2022 13: 25
                    Putin and here? The economy has been stagnant for 10 years under Putin
                2. +2
                  29 September 2022 20: 39
                  I will support you in counteracting trolling and partially add:
                  MOSCOW, August 3 - RIA Novosti. More than two-thirds of the population of the Russian Federation have never been outside of Russia, according to the results of a survey by the Public Opinion Foundation (FOM).
                  According to the study, 69 percent of Russians have never traveled abroad, nine percent have vacationed there ten or more years ago, six percent five to seven years ago, and the same number three to five years ago. Only two percent of respondents went on a foreign holiday less than a year ago.
                  Moreover, a third of the respondents have never even left their region, and 17 percent traveled around Russia more than ten years ago.
              2. +1
                29 September 2022 19: 32
                If you are addressed with "you", it means:
                1. these are the rules of communication;
                2. assume that you deserve respect;
                3. boors do not deserve such treatment;
                Do you understand?
              3. 0
                30 September 2022 00: 05
                I will not argue, your arguments are clear and reasonable, but ...

                "Best" does not mean "good", "best" means that everyone else is much worse.
            3. +2
              29 September 2022 13: 25
              Quote: Ivanchester
              In 1998, oil cost $12 a barrel, but today it costs $90. There is no merit of Putin and his accomplices in this.

              Uh-huh...only during Putin's first term, with the price of oil practically unchanged, oil and gas companies officially unprofitable under Yeltsin suddenly turned into profitable ones and began to generate income for the budget. wink
              1. +2
                29 September 2022 13: 46
                From March 1991 to September 1999, oil traded in a range of $11 to $22, and from March 2000 to March 2004 (GDP's first term) it traded between $22 and $32.
                Thus, the conventionally average price was $16 during Yeltsin's time and $27 during Putin's first term.
                So what kind of price stability can we talk about?
            4. +1
              29 September 2022 13: 34
              world - will grow by 3%
              Through Africa and Asia.
        2. Kim
          -3
          29 September 2022 07: 20
          Have you seen Bush's legs on the shelves for a long time?
          do you think a hungry army will fight a lot?
        3. +4
          29 September 2022 07: 31
          ChSH, there is another example. When a private shop of, conditionally, forty people, produces a product that is quite comparable to the product of opponents and much more comparable to the products of ..... "certified suppliers" with magnificent titles. It will never go from production only. For they didn’t come up with it and, in general, they didn’t figure it out. CHSBH, consumers are not the simplest ones and cannot break through funding, despite the fact that the "supplier of the Court of His Imperial Majesty" has done his best from pumpkin to heel. But on the other hand, everything is curly in our transmissions. If the troops do not call. Because there is so much to learn...
      2. +4
        29 September 2022 09: 11
        Did what the leaders advised - went into business
    2. +8
      29 September 2022 06: 57
      Quote: fiberboard
      Hooray for our sciencesи, the best scienceи in the world!

      Vova, pull up the Russian!
      With declensions - trouble ...
      Click on the Dative case.
      Then come here, we'll talk about our science together ...
      1. +1
        29 September 2022 07: 55
        Perhaps "hooray" screamed science?
        And then it is not necessary to blame for the genitive case.
        Let's assume that this is so.
  5. -1
    29 September 2022 05: 53
    Well, what can I say? This was quite expected. No one in their right mind could have expected that the missiles would not fall in decent shape into the hands of the enemy. The question now is what our industry will offer in return. In the very near future, the striped ones will make an antidote and give ukram and caliber, and so on, will become useless blanks. It remains to be hoped that not all bright heads in our design bureaus have retired ...
  6. +11
    29 September 2022 06: 03
    I once had to see chips for the defense industry. I was shown. Nothing from this show is secret. It's a clean metal surface. No product brand. As I understand it, there is some kind of methodology, series designations, but I don’t know which one. The fact is that our military-purpose chips are covered with metal. This is for pickup protection and damage protection. What else did you notice? The chip is really big. I haven't seen such big ones in a long time. But on the other hand, this is not a minus - where it is thin, it breaks there. On the other hand, you need more energy for its operation and you need high-quality cooling.

    What about the rest? Nothing special. Perhaps there are problems with the quantity and assortment. But for example, I know that one plant in Russia called all the former workers out of retirement and they are already working in four shifts.
    1. Kim
      +3
      29 September 2022 06: 18
      purely a question
      4 shifts is 6 hours? There are only 24 hours in a day :)
      1. +8
        29 September 2022 06: 49
        purely a question
        4 shifts is 6 hours?

        Well, that would be scarier. Here they say how we rested, as many as 4 shifts, but we can even five.
        1. Kim
          +1
          29 September 2022 07: 06
          the adversary is worse? :)
          really surprised
          we have 4 shifts, this is the so-called. "railway schedule" - "day / night / 48", and in a day there are actually two shifts
          1. 0
            29 September 2022 08: 14
            Quote from kim
            we have 4 shifts, this is the so-called. "railway schedule" - "day / night / 48", and in a day there are actually two shifts

            How many hours do evening and night shifts work? Comrade writes about pensioners called from rest, don’t you admit that they were given shortened shifts?
            1. Kim
              0
              30 September 2022 03: 48
              shifts are standard, 8.0 - 20.0 and 20.0 - 8.0
              -----------
              good idea, didn't think
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. 0
        29 September 2022 06: 55
        Quote from kim
        4 shifts is 6 hours? There are only 24 hours in a day :)
        No lunch. The shift on duty and the rest, then they change. And so 24/7
        1. Kim
          0
          29 September 2022 07: 07
          harshly
          If it's not a secret - what kind of work is this?
          but most likely you won't
          and then they will anoint both foreheads with greenery
          1. +2
            29 September 2022 20: 39
            I can't say for all the shops, but in our area part of the shift pours C29H35O4N2, the other is busy processing fluff pulp. The rest passes by, with such and such a schedule.
            1. +1
              30 September 2022 00: 33
              This is good: there will be something to smear foreheads, but at first I became interested in the formula laughing
            2. Kim
              0
              30 September 2022 03: 49
              everything, lagged behind
              forgot all that was said :)
              ---------------------
              and why ? capricious production, and whoever started, he must bring to ...?
              Or am I asking too much? :)
              1. +1
                30 September 2022 09: 34
                The comrade explained everything in an understandable language, everything is in order with his practice and education)))) With a sense of humor - too lol
                1. Kim
                  +1
                  30 September 2022 10: 50
                  I missed chemistry at school :)
                  I didn’t rise above the regional Olympics :)
                  and it was still with the gifts of Leonid Ilyich :)
                  1. -1
                    30 September 2022 11: 07
                    Synchronously))) But life will not teach you that. To read between the lines and in their absence, the union learned superbly wink
      3. +5
        29 September 2022 07: 13
        Four shifts is a lot of work schedule options, with 12-hour shifts and non-stop.
        But for eight hours in three shifts, here a small oops, in the 3rd night shift quality and productivity drops, and in the interval from 5 to 8 hours the quality drops noticeably.
        1. Kim
          +1
          29 September 2022 07: 31
          I will share unclassified (probably) information
          we have a GSHO repair shop from Komatsu nearby
          there are exactly 3 shifts, but done quite cunningly
          EMNIP, 9-17, 17-01, 01-09
          a friend has been working for the third or 4th year, it’s quite normal
        2. +3
          29 September 2022 09: 07
          I dont know. The plant is not big. I don't know much about him at all. Although it is within the city, but behind a high fence and beyond the fence there is still a fence and the five-story building itself. The only thing I know is that the night shift is the smallest in terms of workers. That is, only part of the operations is performed there.

          And what else do I know - they work from the wheels and immediately send the products, after they are accepted by the OTC specialists.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. +3
        29 September 2022 08: 31
        The duration of the shift may depend on the complexity and harmfulness, i.e. 6 hours is the normal duration of the shift.
      6. +5
        29 September 2022 09: 02
        Four shifts means three shifts are on and the fourth is on the weekend. Or do you think that people are not entitled to a day off?
        1. Kim
          +1
          30 September 2022 03: 50
          what could be the weekend? Homeland of danger !!!
          1. +1
            30 September 2022 09: 35
            While there is no military training center, there is a shopping center wink At least that's how it's supposed to be feel
            1. Kim
              +1
              30 September 2022 10: 50
              you see, the tags "sarcasm" cannot be invented for 20 years
              1. -1
                30 September 2022 11: 08
                That I’m not for you))) And with tags - yes, of course, but there is the word "shovel" lol
                1. Kim
                  0
                  30 September 2022 11: 10
                  undoubtedly :)
                  ZY, thanks for the dialogue
                  few people succeed
                  ZY, did you try to write yourself?
                  1. 0
                    30 September 2022 11: 34
                    She seems to be writing))) Here, for example wink
                    And so ..... Who needs it? Those who can read already know everything, but those who do not know how .... I give them a "red hut", chtol? laughing
                    1. Kim
                      0
                      30 September 2022 11: 45
                      Well, the aforementioned Sperry, NNP, wrote a very little known
                      although military commentators read - and knew - quite a lot
                      but I do not insist, of course
                      writing is hard
                      1. 0
                        30 September 2022 11: 56
                        So what's the deal here ... The commentators already knew it all, just a little from the other side. And the author's work is hell. And mentioned, including. From only appreciate it .... units. Thinking about the same. Others just don't care. One - because they are stomach-headed. But at least it's honest. Others - because they are the same, but with ..... an ideological touch. Well, constantly racking your brains - is it already possible, or nuegonafuy ?? Who knows him there? Look, there are several historians for the Second World War ... they are harnessing ..... And here are even closer times feel
                    2. -2
                      30 September 2022 15: 24
                      You write, write! It turns out great, I liked it very much about tuhes and nuhes
                      1. +1
                        30 September 2022 15: 45
                        He is still nakhes)), but even with him there are problems, but with haloymes - everything is in order.
    2. KCA
      +8
      29 September 2022 06: 36
      There is another fun topic - microassemblies, this is when a whole module on a board with components is baked in ceramics, only the ends stick out, and also no markings at all, such brown crap, don't understand that :-)
      1. -2
        29 September 2022 20: 12
        Baked in ceramics? For what ? That there all components "died"?
        1. KCA
          0
          30 September 2022 02: 20
          Surprisingly, they may die, but not everyone knows what can be heated, what is not, I think if you take a lot of care, you will find such ceramic plaques on the Internet
          1. 0
            30 September 2022 22: 52
            Always filled with compounds, and previously with special varnishes;)
    3. +3
      29 September 2022 07: 16
      These are GIS.
      If you open the case, we will see the crystals. And on them it is written what it is and who made it when.
    4. 0
      29 September 2022 07: 33
      Naturally. And the other - zafigaril two shifts of 12 hours. Patamusht no pensioners. The question is, how long can they take? Six days a week....
      1. 0
        29 September 2022 08: 28
        Maybe you don't know more about the two 12-hour shifts. Back in Soviet times, he worked on the railway in two shifts in the departure park. From 9 to 21 and from 21 to 9. Only one subtlety. After the daytime 12 hours, a day of rest and after the night 12 hours, two days of rest.
        1. +6
          29 September 2022 08: 48
          Yes, the stump is clear, I don’t know, I’m wild, yesterday from the tree of tears, I suffered, while I chopped the tail with a chopper ......
          In order to switch to daily work, it is necessary to increase the staff so robustly. And if, again, there are no special problems with all kinds of loaders and drivers, managers, then with qualified personnel, especially technical ones ..... What kind of freezer will you find so many of them from? From the warehouses of the Federal Reserve?
          So I wrote exactly that. Alas ....
          1. -3
            29 September 2022 08: 52
            Do you have nothing else besides emotions? But an enterprise / plant is being built - are they also recruiting employees from the freezer?
            1. +2
              29 September 2022 09: 03
              As for emotions - at you to the employees of the plant. If they don't get killed.
              But the plant is being built - naturally, in two weeks ?? And they decided to build on the 1st and launched it in a couple of weeks? What an optimist you are, gentleman ..... I would like your faith in miracles .....
              1. -5
                29 September 2022 09: 07
                Why do I need to employees, you have emotions. And modern factories, if there is a high demand for their products, are built many times faster than it is possible to train a specialist. And what are you, my serf, well, if I'm a gentleman? I don't believe in miracles, I believe in reality.
                1. +1
                  29 September 2022 09: 22
                  Why do I need employees, you have emotions

                  About how ... And you, sorry, a telepath? well, wow, how many unique people are here .... Determine emotions from the text .... Or is it not telepathy anymore?
                  And modern factories, if there is a high demand for their products, are built many times faster,

                  Oh. A couple of examples of when we would quickly build something over the past fifteen years, is it possible? Liebherra and other imports, please do not remember .....
                  than you can train a specialist.

                  In the list of specialty SPO, officials indicated a lot of "working professions" for themselves. And at the factory itself, it was rarely possible to learn quickly. Experience, again, well ..... From I ask - where did the factory of specialists come from? From to the Russian language, with its phraseological units and other breadth, you suddenly have a claim. Which is your right, of course. But to the question - where did the specialists come from, you somehow smoothly drove around ..... What is not surprising, once again feel
                  1. -6
                    29 September 2022 09: 34
                    Emotions can be seen in the text, nothing complicated.
                    Don't remember? Are they tabooed?
                    Where did he get the specialists from, well, probably they all their lives, like Ilya, sat in the seat and then they waited, got up. And the thought does not come, what are the options for accelerated training of specialists in the field?
                    There were never any complaints about the Russian language. The question was to you, about your humiliation.
                    I didn’t go around anything, but you just didn’t understand that specialists can be trained locally. What is faster and better than accepting what has been learned and retraining it for your own production. I am no longer surprised by your reasoning. It's better for you to deny than to be surprised by the results. At the end of spring, the State Department was arguing that we were running out of ammunition. And now, wondering where? In Europe, cry, everything ends, but Russia continues in the same spirit.
                    1. 0
                      29 September 2022 11: 59
                      Emotions can be seen in the text, nothing complicated.

                      I'm glad we have such specialists. All is not yet lost....
                      Don't remember? Are they tabooed?

                      No, no one put anything on them, just imported bourgeois built a factory for themselves. Well, on our territory, but that's it. We are talking about the construction of the plant by us for us, or did I not understand something?
                      And the thought does not come, what are the options for accelerated training of specialists in the field?

                      What kind of thoughts do not come, do not believe it. When a team of 20 people "on the spot" prepare a couple - I saw and I can believe. When in this brigade it is necessary to prepare 20 in a month, doubts gnaw. And yet, yes, not everyone can be prepared "on the spot" .... Unfortunately ...
                      There were never any complaints about the Russian language. The question was to you, about your humiliation.

                      I noticed that one .... The turnover with the "master" is such a turn of speech, in that very powerful one. The era of the classics, Fedor Mikhalych there, Anton Palych and other Lvov Nikolaevich ....
                      I am no longer surprised by your reasoning.

                      Yes, I'm not surprised by yours either. True, over the past couple of months, characters with such reasoning have somehow diminished here, apparently seasonal .... Well, either az, miserable, I don’t know something, for the Lord alone is omniscient .....
                      It's better for you to deny than to be surprised by the results.

                      To me? Deny?? Good Lord, where did you see this??? I am somewhat familiar with promkoy, incl. specific, and with the country in general. So, a bit... So, "Smile and wave, guys, smile and wave!"
                      All the best in bringing up another factory team "in the workplace." The process is very exciting, it is necessary to organize a similar process at all related enterprises. And the same Kurganmashzavod has a lot of them .... Good luck to you in such an important matter. And health....
                      1. -2
                        29 September 2022 12: 26
                        I'm glad we have such specialists. All is not lost yet...
                        When:

                        Well, I’m wild, yesterday from a tree of tears, I suffered while chopping my tail with a chopper ...
                        Tail, chopper!!! This is how you turn your emotions around. There is no need to be an expert here.
                        No, no one put anything on them, just imported bourgeois built a factory for themselves.
                        How are ours different? Ours also want to make a faster profit.
                        When in this brigade it is necessary to prepare 20 in a month, doubts gnaw. And yet, yes, not everyone can be prepared "on the spot."
                        You forgot that a huge number of people study in our country, and for the most part, after graduation, they do not work in their specialty. The salary is not satisfying. And what, when necessary, not to interest such a reserve with a good salary. So experts are not a problem.
                        I noticed that one .... The turnover with the "master" is such a turn of speech, in that very powerful one.
                        But what side did this turnover fall on in our discussion?

                        True, over the past couple of months, characters with such reasoning have somehow diminished here, apparently seasonal ....
                        And like yours, it began to increase, it seems that it also depends on the season.
                        To me? Deny?? Good Lord, where did you see this???
                        Yes, in our discussions, a complete denial of reality.
                        I am somewhat familiar with promkoy, incl. specific, and with the country in general.
                        Several? That's noticeable.
                        All the best in bringing up another factory team "in the workplace."
                        It looks like you are very inattentive, if you read more carefully, then such an idea would not have appeared.
                        Good luck with this important matter.
                        Once again, be careful. For the run of your thoughts, you miss the important. Which is not surprising.
                        And health....
                        You do not get sick ........ I continue not to be surprised.
                      2. +2
                        29 September 2022 12: 54
                        Tail, chopper!!! This is how you turn your emotions around. There is no need to be an expert here.

                        Forgive me, but cutting the tail with a rake is inconvenient and dreary. Especially - the carrier of the tail.
                        How are ours different? Ours also want to make a faster profit.

                        Those who suffer from quick profit do not build factories. And with our Central Bank ..... there is only speculation, sorry, to deal with gossip ...
                        You forgot that a huge number of people study in our country, and for the most part, after graduation, they do not work in their specialty. The salary is not satisfying. And what, when necessary, not to interest such a reserve with a good salary. So experts are not a problem.

                        No, I have sclerosis, not without it ... But, basically, now we are sculpting (with the left hind leg), basically all kinds of management. Not machine operators and adjusters with MCP locksmiths. here again by.
                        But what side did this turnover fall on in our discussion?

                        Have you tried to ask the experts of the great and mighty these questions?
                        And like yours, it began to increase, it seems that it also depends on the season.

                        And again the bullet went for a walk for milk. There aren't many like mine here. For to the political officers yelling from the sofa "Forward, for Rotenberg!" I do not belong, as well as to those who scream that everything is lost and it is necessary to smack with a vigorous bonba. Well, if you, of course, tried to read other comments and try to understand what is written there. And the "thrash, waste and sodomy" I mentioned in the country are quite objective. starting with a vulgar question, why the heck are we twisting this operation so much? and ending, when the caravans of rockets from Vostochny will fly, even if not to Mars, for apples ....
                        Yes, in our discussions, a complete denial of reality.

                        So I can say the same about you. AND?
                        It looks like you are very inattentive, if you read more carefully, then such an idea would not have appeared.

                        And the thought does not come, what are the options for accelerated training of specialists in the field?
                        specialists can be trained locally. What is faster and better than accepting what has been learned and retraining it for your own production.

                        Of course, I didn't understand.
                        Once again, be careful. For the run of your thoughts, you miss the important. Which is not surprising.

                        To me this, the so-called. "important" political officers in the last country ate their brains. They lied, however, which was clear then, and later.
                      3. -2
                        29 September 2022 13: 12
                        Forgive me, but cutting the tail with a rake is inconvenient and dreary. Especially - the carrier of the tail.
                        Well, you know better. This is where I'm not an expert.
                        Those who suffer from quick profit do not build factories.
                        Again you are inattentive, not fast, but fast.
                        Have you tried to ask the experts of the great and mighty these questions?
                        Oh, so you're not an expert in this? Then use with caution.
                        And again the bullet went for a walk for milk. There aren't many like mine here.
                        Your milk. Didn't say much about it.
                        So I can say the same about you.
                        It will not work, I do not deny it, on the contrary.
                        Of course, I didn't understand.
                        Because these quotes are about different things, and if you mix them, then it will be even more incomprehensible for you.
                        To me this, the so-called. "important"
                        And in what comment about the important, albeit in quotes?
                      4. 0
                        29 September 2022 14: 11
                        As for the important - the error came out. It was.
                      5. +1
                        29 September 2022 14: 35
                        Again you are inattentive, not fast, but fast.

                        Ours also want to make a faster profit.

                        If you see the difference, then I'm happy for you.
                        Oh, so you're not an expert in this? Then use with caution.

                        And only specialists use Russian?? That is, you are obviously a graduate ... True, life has shown that the presence of cardboard is only the presence of cardboard.
                        Your milk. Didn't say much about it.

                        I was not quite correct, I agree. But you are not a model of accuracy either. They did not increase, the number of hatballs decreased. For all their talent, even they (though not all of them) began to realize that there was some kind of dissonance ....
                        It will not work, I do not deny it, on the contrary.

                        And here you are a few .... a few .... For if everything is wonderful - where is the dupa from. And not only ... on the line ... of contact ...
                        Even here on this topic there was a lot of materials. But I'm not your doctor
                        Because these quotes are about different things, and if you mix them, then it will be even more incomprehensible for you.

                        Well, there is an option that these quotes are simply nothing .... At least, this is how it is in all the productions I know. But I fully admit that somewhere there are amazing people at an amazing plant. Sometimes the Star, for example, broadcasts to us about them ... Or Manturov ... Or some other iron ... True, the results of the activity are not visible, but this is not important, is it?
                        And in what comment about the important, albeit in quotes?

                        My quotation marks, I repent
                        Behind the run of your thoughts, you miss important.

                        Back in those years, these grain growers from MDR, the only true one, of all different colors, also purged a lot ....
                      6. -2
                        29 September 2022 14: 49
                        If you see the difference, then I'm happy for you.
                        You don't need to rejoice for me, not my profit. And the difference is, fast - instantaneous. Fast is the time between construction and the start of income, permanent.

                        And only specialists use Russian?? I mean, you're obviously a graduate...
                        When something is used in an allegorical way, you need to understand whether it corresponds to this situation. If there is no understanding, then use simple speech. Otherwise, there is a misunderstanding with the consequences.
                        But you are not a model of accuracy either.
                        And I do not dispute this, only my understanding of the situation, based on the current situation.
                        But I'm not your doctor
                        Yes, I'm not here for a diagnosis.
                        Well, there is an option that these quotes are just nothing ....
                        Just about what will be impossible to do and this should be understood based on the data of the interlocutor.
                        My quotation marks, I repent
                        When a teacher finds a mistake, it's a mistake. And when the student found and corrected it, it does not count as an error.
                    2. +1
                      29 September 2022 12: 24
                      Quote: Vasilyevich Pensioner
                      and Russia continues in the same spirit.

                      "In the same spirit" the T-62, AKM were pulled into the light of day, but something was silent about Caliber.
                      1. -1
                        29 September 2022 12: 58
                        T-62 was pulled into the light of day
                        Why salt:
                        3500 - T-80B (as well as T-80BV and T-80UD) and 7000 T-72?

                        AKM
                        Why not the 74th?
                        Isn't Caliber a specific instrument? It seems they are not for mass shelling. We are not Ukrainians who are hacking around the residential sector with hamers.
                      2. +3
                        29 September 2022 13: 28
                        Quote: Vasilyevich Pensioner
                        Isn't Caliber a specific instrument? It seems they are not for mass shelling.

                        From the beginning of the operation, they wrote every day that something was destroyed there by Caliber strikes. They don't write now.
                      3. -1
                        29 September 2022 13: 31
                        Well, not every day. And when the targets for such weapons may end, or have not yet been explored.
        2. 0
          29 September 2022 11: 40
          The usual schedule for work is 4 shifts. 2 days (8-20) 2 nights (20-8). 4 days off.. Simple and convenient
  7. +10
    29 September 2022 06: 09
    This is the result of the fact that the state has distanced itself from production, has given everything at the mercy of private business. We do not produce much of what is needed, and I do not see any positive developments in this direction. Produced in the USSR. What prevents our state from setting up the production of domestic electronics, processors? Universities in the country - on every corner. This means that they must produce specialists. Otherwise, these universities should be closed, and teachers should be deprived of their titles and the right to teach. Production needs to be restored. And it is the state, not private owners. If our defense industry depends on imported components, then this is idiocy. If we are not able to produce the machines necessary for our defense industry, then this is not even idiocy, this is betrayal.
    1. Kim
      -6
      29 September 2022 06: 19
      what prevented the release of jeans? VCRs? finally meat?
      ZY, I do not need statistics. I was born in 1966, I saw this Soviet statistics in a coffin.
      1. -2
        29 September 2022 06: 54
        what prevented the release of jeans? VCRs? finally meat

        I don’t know about you, but in my happy Soviet childhood and youth, there were no problems with Soviet jeans. All these years passed in them. Yes, the material was different from the original Wranglers, but it may even surpassed it in strength, and the cut is the same classic.
        Vidics, mafons and TV sets were also ours. In terms of "advancement", of course, they were inferior to imported ones, but they worked quite well and were cheaper. Of course, there was an acute shortage of Soviet video cameras, but they were produced.
        1. Kim
          -4
          29 September 2022 07: 10
          the only Soviet video recorder is a torn "Korean"
          and it's not even the 21st century, it's the mid 80s...
          ZY, sorry, "Panasonic NV-2000"
          you can read about the "largest Soviet computers" here, https://topwar.ru/user/Sperry/
          1. GIS
            +3
            29 September 2022 09: 10
            what?
            stop people from watching? or maybe Western countries did not use Soviet inventions?
            I don't see anything wrong with that. and I think if the USSR had not collapsed, we would now be the most successful country in many respects compared to the same China and the EU
            1. Kim
              0
              30 September 2022 03: 55
              and if RI had not been destroyed, then Russia would have been among the first countries in the world ...
              the trouble is not that they lagged behind, but that backwardness was growing
              and this is connected precisely with the guiding and guiding
              those. relatively speaking - videodiscs are already being released there, and we have plans for the next five years "to provide VM-12 for every Soviet city committee!"
              still read Sperry
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. ban
          +2
          29 September 2022 08: 48
          Of course, there was an acute shortage of Soviet video cameras, but they were produced.


          Do you remember the cost? wassat
          1. Kim
            0
            30 September 2022 03: 56
            Approximately half a year salary of the candidate :)
            this is if you take it in the store
            but who saw them in gamazins?
      2. +11
        29 September 2022 07: 06
        No one argues about jeans and clothes, I remember electronics video recorders but few, meat in canteens was in the form of inexpensive dishes and in the markets for 5 rubles per kg. But on the other hand, our nuclear submarines were built one and a half times faster than American ones.
        We still don’t produce jeans, now we don’t produce TVs or VCRs at all, and the Americans build their nuclear submarines several times faster than us.
        The Soviet system had flaws, there were problems and they could and should have been corrected, but not to break a working system, you don’t throw away a good car if its wheels are simply worn out.
        1. Kim
          -4
          29 September 2022 07: 38
          64 thousand tanks helped the Union a lot?
          ---------------
          Well, why do we need a hundred nuclear submarines, if 10 are needed for guaranteed destruction?
          1. +4
            29 September 2022 09: 33
            Premier Leagues are different. There are SSBNs that destroy everything, and there are MAPLs that must protect them from enemy MAPLs, destroy enemy SSBNs and cut enemy communications. So there are only two of these MAPLs in the Pacific Ocean, one Ash and one Kuzbass, which needs repairs for several years, but it was not put in for repairs, because for several years it was the only MAPL for the entire Pacific Fleet.
            You better tell us how the half-dead Kuzbass and Ash will be able to cover the exit from the bases and
            secure the patrol area from 15 Los Angeles MAPLs, five Virginia MAPLs, and 12 Japanese Soryu? But they still need to somehow track the exits of the SSBNs from their bases, in the conditions of the operation of fifty modern Poseidon PLO aircraft.
            1. +2
              29 September 2022 12: 04
              What about tanks? The question was about tanks)) ..... We know about the fact that we, who have risen from our knees, have a fleet like that very complex number, in its, so to speak, imaginary part, we know. That's just the same rate of release of passion as the necessary trawls in working performance and others ..... sorry, corvettes, somehow ....... not so bravura .....
            2. Kim
              0
              30 September 2022 04: 16
              the Union had it
              in addition to tanks
              did it help?
          2. +4
            29 September 2022 13: 30
            Quote from kim
            Well, why do we need a hundred nuclear submarines, if 10 are needed for guaranteed destruction?

            But because of this hundred, 20 percent will actually be combat-ready. For our admirals, since the founding of the Russian fleet, have treated basing and repairs as something unimportant.
            And as a result, over and over again it turned out that there were a lot of ships on the list, but there was no one to go to sea.
            1. Kim
              +1
              30 September 2022 04: 17
              if this is already 300 years old - maybe this is not a bug, but a feature? :)
              1. 0
                30 September 2022 09: 38
                No, it's not a feature. The feature is to constantly move the boobies upstairs, with a well-known result. From this - exactly our feature.
                1. Kim
                  0
                  30 September 2022 10: 51
                  that's what I'm saying
                  after all, if the stars light up? ...
                  1. -1
                    30 September 2022 11: 09
                    Naturally. And then they fall over the hill, and .... the electorate, sorry, patriotically indignant tongue
        2. +1
          29 September 2022 08: 18
          Quote: ramzay21
          But on the other hand, our nuclear submarines were built one and a half times faster than American ones.

          Can you bring the statistics of accidents on our nuclear submarines and American ones?
          1. 0
            29 September 2022 09: 40
            Can you bring the statistics of accidents on our nuclear submarines and American ones?

            When modern boats began to appear in our country, perestroika and a mess began. And so our Pike in terms of accidents was equal to the Salmon in normal times.
            1. +3
              29 September 2022 13: 15
              Quote: ramzay21
              our Pike in terms of accidents was equal to Salmon in normal times

              Only Elks had an accident rate for frequent navigation, while Pike was dominated by man-made accidents, and for frequent these accidents were laid at the construction stage, such is the price of the rush for prizes and orders!
              1. -1
                29 September 2022 18: 51
                And what kind of man-made accidents were on Pike during the USSR?
                1. +2
                  30 September 2022 10: 33
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  And what kind of man-made accidents were on Pike during the USSR?

                  Well, given that the Pikes were commissioned for the most part in the late 80s, and some even after the 91st, then only K-502 (an explosion of the HP compressor) and K-138 (after signing the acceptance certificate, the plant and the delivery team eliminated their jambs for 7 months). And in total, there were 6 man-made accidents on Shuk for the entire service, and given that Shuk was built 21 ships and Losey 62, then we can say that haste is needed only in two cases ...
                  1. -1
                    30 September 2022 11: 44
                    You confused Pike with Pike B. And the lead Pike went into operation in 1977, was built in a year and a half and there were no accidents on them, don’t suck it out of your finger.
                    For comparison, the head Ash was built for 20 years, so there is no need to tell fairy tales about how bad everything was under the USSR.
                    1. +2
                      30 September 2022 14: 58
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      You confused Pike with Pike B

                      I'm still in my right mind to distinguish a 671rtm project from a 971 project.
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      the lead Pike entered service in 1977,

                      Until the age of 81, 7 units were built, for example, K-251 entered service on 30.09.1980/24.10.1980/45, 6.06.1982/1980/85. enrolled in the XNUMXth DiPL. On June XNUMX, XNUMX, she entered the first line. In the same year, she went to her first combat line in the fall. I mean, not a year passes from the year of laying to the year of full combat readiness, i.e. if the boat was laid down in XNUMX, its main operation will begin at least from the middle of the XNUMXth year!
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      For comparison, the head Ash was built for 20 years

                      My friend, and Sevmash in the 90s ... the fault of shipbuilders that the communists tore party cards and put crosses around their necks ?!
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      no need to tell tales about how bad things were under the USSR.

                      Where did I say that everything was bad? In addition, for the topic of conversation ... I received 3 ships from the plant and I know what I'm talking about!
                      1. -1
                        30 September 2022 18: 39
                        I'm still in my right mind to distinguish a 671rtm project from a 971 project.

                        You then decide what you write
                        Well, considering that the Pikes were commissioned for the most part in the late 80s, and not some after the 91st

                        Or
                        Until 81, 7 units were built,
                      2. +2
                        5 October 2022 07: 39
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Until 81, 7 units were built,

                        They were built in total 21 units!
                        hi Good luck to you!
          2. +1
            29 September 2022 12: 06
            Yes, you can. What about the meaning? Or do you have statistics that distinguish, so to speak, an ordinary accident from an accident programmed by the command's retardation? I would be very happy with such statistics, do not prolong? Chesslovo, no bullshit hi
            1. +2
              29 September 2022 13: 26
              Quote: frog
              an ordinary accident from an accident programmed by the command's debilism?

              what What does normal accident mean? Is an atomic explosion as a result of a breakthrough in the second circuit of a nuclear reactor an ordinary accident?
              Quote: frog
              an ordinary accident from an accident programmed by the command's debilism?

              In your fight against windmills, sorry, sometimes you really surprise with corruption! A simple hard worker welder, full of asbestos mat when doing work ... can he be considered as a command? If it is possible, please formulate more precisely what is an accident programmed by the command's morons? hi
              1. +1
                29 September 2022 14: 42
                Well, wording is like that. There is a manufacturing defect. Sometimes opening quickly, sometimes not so much
                And there is a realized desire of the headquarters to push the boat into the sea. Not a BG boat, obviously. The commander's objections go through the forest, the boat goes to sea, then ....
                there is a no less fabulous desire of the headquarters to replace a half-crew a week before the BS, including the commander with the first mate. Monsieur Butoma, as I understand it, has nothing to do with these decisions. Or the operation of boats in conditions that are poorly suitable .... I don’t know how even softer. I'm talking about the famous 675, EMNIP, a project in the Indian .....
                1. Kim
                  +1
                  30 September 2022 04: 18
                  Have you read Sharks of Steel? and the classics, Pokrovsky?
                  1. +1
                    30 September 2022 08: 01
                    So this is a classic)) .... But I don’t remember them on purpose. They will say, sho "slanderers of Russia." It's always like that with us. It is worth saying that in the village of the Kursk region it smells of manure, so immediately a screech begins in the non-rubber .... Further, depending on the era feel
                    1. Kim
                      +1
                      30 September 2022 08: 03
                      hmm ... and what should smell like in the village? in a normal village where cattle are kept
                      no, it’s more pleasant with roses, I don’t argue :)
                      1. +1
                        30 September 2022 09: 06
                        Yes x.z. wink If sorry, organics, regularly clean up, then it doesn’t really smell like it either))) But it can’t stink of manure in our village. Just like princesses can't poop, it's obvious laughing
                2. +3
                  30 September 2022 10: 08
                  Quote: frog
                  I'm talking about the famous 675, EMNIP, a project in the Indian .....

                  Do you mean K-175? Well ... in the reactors of this boat all the stars of world magnitude converged! A more revealing example of your dislike for superiors is K-429 ... one of the perpetrators of that tragedy even managed to become the commander of the Northern Fleet!
                  And by the way, according to K-175, before the episode you are interested in, 3 accidents occurred on this boat precisely through the fault of Butoma's subordinates ...
                  1. 0
                    30 September 2022 15: 54
                    And her too. And not only her. But, in general, in these stories everyone was noted. Both wholesale and retail. And rags, and uniform in the valve and Allah knows what else .....
                    I strongly suspect that the rest in the large and powerful aircraft of the same kind .... have quite a few stories.
                    Well, that long-suffering slope - yes, this is an epic. However, the drowned diesel engine in Vladik delivers no less.
                    And one of the culprits of the systematic death of Lear generally became the Commander-in-Chief feel
              2. 0
                30 September 2022 02: 28
                A simple hard worker welder, full of asbestos mat when doing work ... can he be considered as a command?

                A simple high-level welder in Krasnoye Sormovo or at Sevmash under the USSR received a salary as a deputy minister, was a respected person and did his job well, and he was led not by goofs or someone's suckers, but by literate and responsible people, which is why they made Pikes faster than Salmon and did it with quality.
                And now the former admiral, who has attached his ass to the military-industrial complex, is thinking how to cut the dough for him, and the caprice in charge of weapons is thinking how to get to a warm place in the same military-industrial complex, and they don’t give a damn about the welder, because the less they pay him, the more money they will cut, and at the same time For some reason, the welder always answers, who is paid a pittance and does not put in anything, and the former admiral in the military-industrial complex and the current caprice are not responsible for anything, although they have decided everything.
                Which of those who decided to cut the dock's team and cut the remaining salary at times was responsible for the drowning of the dock with Kuzey?
                1. +3
                  30 September 2022 10: 37
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  A simple high-level welder in Krasnoye Sormovo or at Sevmash under the USSR received a salary as a deputy minister, was a respected person and did his job well

                  Children, wives, and the K-19 crew itself are very grateful to this welder for the loss of a breadwinner, husband and health!
                  1. -1
                    30 September 2022 11: 29
                    Well, you can remember the K-314 ....
                    Or, EMNIP, K-14 ...
                    "1965, August 17. She worked out the tasks of combat training in the ranges of the Northern Fleet. She returned to the base. The maneuvering device refused to listen to the watchman, the running gear went to open, the turbine quickly gained momentum above the critical ones.
                    Rumble, compartment in the fog. After the fog dissipates, blades protruding from the turbine housing are visible.
                    Upon arrival at the base, the GTZA PB was opened. The blade apparatus and the main condenser are completely destroyed.
                    The reason for the failure of the main turbine of the PB was the ingress of rags into its automatic control system.
                    Or more....
        3. ban
          +2
          29 September 2022 08: 50
          and the Americans are building their nuclear submarines several times faster than us.


          But this is not true. Long-term construction with a nuclear submarine among the bourgeoisie, too, be healthy hi
        4. +4
          29 September 2022 09: 39
          The Cold War was lost just because, to put it simply, there were no jeans and VCRs. The West ("firmA" :)) had a great attraction in the eyes of the Soviet people of the second half of the 20th century.

          And this kid in a plaid shirt, who stared open-mouthed at American abundance at the 1959 exhibition in Moscow, it is quite possible that he was one of those who did not come out to defend the USSR in 1991 (or his son).
          The human factor is very important. And in some cases this is more important, as it turned out, than the number of missiles and submarines.
          Weapons don't fight, people fight. And the question of their motivation is in many cases more important than the question of weapons.
        5. 0
          29 September 2022 12: 01
          But on the other hand, our nuclear submarines were built one and a half times faster than American ones.

          Yes, you can't argue here. And KON these cans do not remind? You can KOI, if someone likes it that way ....
      3. +1
        29 September 2022 07: 12
        Actually, in 88 I was demobilized in civilian life, in jeans. Soviet production. And before the army, in 85-86, he wore a denim suit, yes, not blue, but black and gray, but also the most domestic. Meat every month directly to work, for pay, as part of a set was brought. There was a set for 7-10 r. With a bunch of canned food in the load, such as sprats in tomato, all sorts of cereals, but also with meat. And the cheese was, though more often sausage. Audio-video equipment, televisions, refrigerators, washing machines, vacuum cleaners - everything was produced. I still have Olymp 005 in good condition, but there are no coils.
        1. Kim
          +1
          29 September 2022 07: 37
          for some reason, "777" was valued in recording studios, but cassettes - I don't remember which
          were Orel-101, but did not last long
          two-pocket "Vega-122" (122, it seems) too - beautiful, but unreliable
          -------------
          there was high-tech in the USSR, but it was made almost piece by piece, it cost unreasonable money and did not stand on the shelves
          as opposed to "potential adversary"
          -------------
          piece by piece and now it’s not a problem to do
          1. +6
            29 September 2022 08: 07
            Cassette brand Izh yuzal from the middle of the 80s to the beginning of the XNUMXs. And not only me. Many in our area had it. Good, reliable technology.
            The Mayak series was just the ultimate dream, but financially the purchase was not pulled.
          2. +6
            29 September 2022 09: 51
            777 cost like a car. And Soviet audio equipment was in bulk.
            The same Vega began to make excellent tape recorders, the two-cassette Vega was excellent and the single-cassette Vega was not bad. And there was also a two-cassette recorder Nota, in my opinion, Mayak-233 played well and his speakers were juicy.
            Excellent equipment was made by Radio Engineering, who does not remember their S90 speakers, they played super with a good amplifier.

            I don’t know about you, but we had all this on the shelves until the end of the 80s, until the mess of perestroika drowned the country.
            1. Kim
              0
              30 September 2022 04: 11
              you just had nothing to compare with
              C90 - forgive me, exactly what is "without fish"
              I had Amphitons with isodynamics on HF, well, somehow
              at the same time they cost like a wing, and were available a little more than nothing
              that at that time, in the form of a little higher than consumer goods, the Japanese were releasing - it’s not for me to tell you ...
              1. 0
                30 September 2022 07: 40
                I had something to compare with and I don’t know speakers at that time that would sound better than the S-90, not the killed S-90.
                In addition, a good amplifier for the S-90 is needed, and there were such ones too. My neighbor made a tube amplifier with only one volume knob, and the way it sounded with the S-90, no 777 stood next to it, it was essentially a high end.
                So in vain you are on the S-90, and even now I would gladly buy new ones for myself.
                1. Kim
                  0
                  30 September 2022 07: 59
                  I say - for lack of a stamp, we write on the toilet ...
                  1. 0
                    30 September 2022 08: 38
                    Have you ever seen a very good high end amplifier? It is a tube one with one volume knob, so I can easily tell a good technique from a rattle.
                    1. Kim
                      0
                      30 September 2022 08: 57
                      I know a lot more about the "warm tube sound" than it might seem :)
                      1. +1
                        30 September 2022 10: 06
                        I do not argue with you at all and do not doubt your knowledge
        2. ban
          +4
          29 September 2022 08: 52
          I remember Olymp-005.
          Decent device
      4. +6
        29 September 2022 07: 14
        what prevented the release of jeans? VCRs?

        laughing "Do-it-yourself electronics VM-12" - in all seriousness, a series of articles in the Radio magazine. I don't remember the year, somewhere in the late 80's. The most accurate description of how to make a VCR yourself. There are also home computers "Radio-86 RK", "Orion", "Specialist" in the "Model Designer". Completely our elemental base. Volkov's "specialist" even assembled at one time, having done it by hand! tracing, marking, drilling, and board etching. Firmware UV ROM rf-2 - on a primitive programmer from a table in a magazine wassat I was looking for one error in the firmware for half a month
        in step mode. I remember for the rest of my life that the F5 is an accumulator in a stack.
        Then we really had electronics. At the very least, but managed to copy. Everything collapsed with Borey Yeltsin. Then it remains to wave your hand and spit with malice. Now to develop this sector is from scratch. Like somewhere in Iran.
        1. Kim
          +2
          29 September 2022 07: 34
          Do-it-yourself video head too? :))))))))))))))))
          ----------------
          it was a series of articles about the V / M device
          at that time - the most complex consumer electronic device in the country
          ---------------
          that's right, NJP, by the 80s we were behind "forever"
          --------------
          few people remember that Iran has been under sanctions for 40 years
          1. +4
            29 September 2022 09: 36
            Do-it-yourself video head too?

            It's not in the head, there was an element base. Almost all. They simply did not pay attention to everyday life, but everything was fine with the military commissar - people, factories, science. The Su-24 was crammed with electronic equipment at the highest world level. There was a foundation. Now he is gone. And the exact time of the beginning of the "drawdown" can be determined 85-86 years. And since the 90s, it’s just a disaster, a real collapse and collapse.
            1. Kim
              +1
              30 September 2022 04: 08
              already asked - whose base?
              I will not deny that they worked and released
              but - the number of marriages? but - level? for some reason, they somehow managed to do the 286th, but the 386th, EMNIP, overstrained themselves - because the base was just weak, and the backlog only grew
              despite the fact that "those" approached the 486th
              1. +1
                30 September 2022 09: 51
                Gee, you still have the cost of picking the so-called. "5th acceptance" remembered lol
                As for computers, by the will of fate I am a bit familiar with the history of the creation of Soviet "hards" ..... Delivers. And even when they bought imported technologies, the features of implementation "our way" delivered more ischo. With the same, for example, wave soldering .....
        2. +6
          29 September 2022 08: 10
          And the youth sat in the evenings and soldered. And paper letters were sent to each other discussing problems. And possible improvements. We waited weeks for a response.
        3. +1
          29 September 2022 10: 04
          Completely our elemental base.

          Which was "solid" (sometimes modestly called "functional counterparts") from Western designs. And which could not be bought in a store, they pulled it from work, and it was available to a few - either to pull it off yourself or buy it at the "radio bazaar" from those who pulled it off or intermediary speculators. Even Shurik in the cult comedy could not do without speculators (or rather, dealers in stolen goods).
          And when, at the turn of the 90s, the circle of radio amateurs capable of making a computer expanded from those units, it was already Spectrums based on the Z80 from Zilog, and chipsets and boards were sold at the same "radio markets".
          1. +2
            29 September 2022 13: 34
            Quote from solar
            And when, at the turn of the 90s, the circle of radio amateurs capable of making a computer expanded from those units, it was already Spectrums based on the Z80 from Zilog, and chipsets and boards were sold at the same "radio markets".

            Uh-huh ... "Svetlanov's" microcircuits, often even without markings on the case, are "solid". smile
            1. +1
              29 September 2022 14: 58
              Tell me the brand of processors that were used in the computers mentioned above.
              Actually, the author of the message himself wrote the same thing as me.
              Completely our elemental base.

              and a few lines below
              At the very least, but managed to copy.

              1. 0
                5 October 2022 04: 23
                Quote from solar
                Tell me the brand of processors that were used in the computers mentioned above.


                KR580VM80A - central, VG75 - video controller
                1. 0
                  5 October 2022 09: 07
                  KR580VM80A is Intel i8080A. It was not produced on Svetlana.
                  1. 0
                    5 October 2022 10: 43
                    Quote from solar
                    KR580VM80A is Intel i8080A. It was not produced on Svetlana.


                    I don’t know where it was made, but they were in my microshade. I won’t lie about the presence / absence of the “Svetlana” sign on the case - I don’t remember, but the inscriptions were all in Cyrillic.
                    1. 0
                      5 October 2022 11: 28
                      they were made by Quasar, for example, torn from Intel.
                      Read the thread above, it said above
                      Uh-huh ... "Svetlanov's" microcircuits, often even without markings on the case, are "solid".
      5. -2
        29 September 2022 07: 37
        The same as now)))) No need for this .... the organizers ......
      6. +3
        29 September 2022 12: 28
        Quote from kim
        what prevented the release of jeans?
        GOST. It was forbidden to use fading dyes and fabrics prone to abrasion.
        Quote from kim
        VCRs?
        Were. Even without a queue. 1200 rub. Chewing film. Necessary?
        Quote from kim
        finally meat?
        There was meat on the market. There was not enough meat for the state price.
        1. -1
          29 September 2022 13: 01
          GOST. It was forbidden to use fading dyes and fabrics prone to abrasion.

          For such an opportunity, all kinds of technical specifications existed))
          Were. Even without a queue. 1200 rub. Chewing film. Necessary?

          You would also remember domestic cassettes that they demolished the head like emery .... Although, after meeting with the so-called. "cooperative" opinion has changed slightly lol
          There was meat on the market. There was not enough meat for the state price.

          It depends where. Almost all the way in non-rubber, in Titerburg, in the capitals of the allied .... formations with meat were tip-top. In ZATO various - too. But in all other places it was worse. A little bit wink
          But the thing is this ... there was one experimenter .... Even under Nikitos, EMNIP ... He showed how the collective state hospital should be. And he raised labor productivity (which, as I was recently informed here, does not apply to economic efficiency)) and lowered the cost. And with s / n it was all right. Can you guess the fate of this ascetic yourself? feel
          1. Kim
            +1
            30 September 2022 04: 02
            plus a lot :)
            and here is the rule (almost the law) - whoever praises the USSR, most often either conditional Muscovites, or ZATO members, or something similar
            Z.Y. and somehow read for the experimenter
            it is necessary to poke soviet-lovers in the nose at every opportunity
            1. +1
              30 September 2022 07: 55
              Well, for Soviet morphers, there is one more category there. Simulacrum fans. It's like Almasty seekers or ufologists there wink
              And "experimenters" happened. You could say regularly. And not only in agriculture. True, as a rule, their fates are similar ..... Apparently, the touching unity of the Soviet people is to blame. Remember this "new historical community"?))
              True, history quickly proved that this was ordinary chatter, like almost all of them .....
              1. Kim
                +1
                30 September 2022 08: 01
                give five :)
                it’s not worth it to blame indiscriminately, but forgetting is fraught
                youth begins to yearn for the USSR
                precisely because they represent it only by stories :)
                1. +1
                  30 September 2022 09: 04
                  Duc .... The craving for this is quite understandable. In the same way, the desire of the older generation to portray the deceased as a kind of white water is understandable. And this attraction is also understandable. But psychoanalysts usually do this, but my education and character and interests are somewhat different ....
        2. Kim
          +1
          30 September 2022 04: 06
          natural cotton wears out anyway
          and for some reason, cotton with puffs, which was considered a marriage, was snapped up with a bang by girls in the form of imported dresses
          ----------------
          not a Muscovite, for an hour? :)
          ---------------
          4 - 5 kg market price with an average pension of 80 and an average salary of 200
          now it is about 350 - 500 r, with 16 tyr and 60 tyr, respectively
          Do you consider availability further?
          I still don’t remember my grandmother with a pension at first 12, and then as much as 27 rubles - this is the 70s and early 80s
    2. +3
      29 September 2022 09: 09
      I will give a simple example. Power transformers are produced in Russia, and the winding compound is imported. And it turns out that according to all the reports that our equipment is transferred to the top, in fact we cannot produce it due to the lack of components. And so in everything. All polymers are gone.
  8. 0
    29 September 2022 06: 12
    And what!? To develop in Russia its own technologies and electronics, more modern and advanced than that of the Americans and their satellites - WEAK ?! After all, Russia has always had no less "brains", or maybe more, than in the West !!!
    1. +2
      29 September 2022 06: 26
      Unfortunately, a lot of "brains" have chosen the side of the enemy. And no one wants to share technology.
      1. 0
        29 September 2022 07: 15
        I'm sorry, but what's up
        no one wants to share technology
        ? Do we have universities no longer graduating engineers? If they graduate, but those who are not able to design anything, then diplomas should be canceled, and universities should be closed.
        1. +4
          29 September 2022 07: 20
          Well, we are lagging behind in technology, we are far behind. Thirty years ago, meat grinders and razors were taken to the Chinese border, exchanged for down jackets. And now I look at the warehouse, only pallets from Russia.
          1. Kim
            +3
            29 September 2022 07: 41
            just a meat grinder from China will be half the price of a Russian one
            what will you buy? from that
            1. +2
              29 September 2022 09: 56
              All normal countries think about it and protect their market and sometimes close it to others. And only backward countries do not defend their market and do not think about supporting their producers.
              1. Kim
                +1
                30 September 2022 04: 01
                in the USSR, in fact, there was a closed market
                if it is impossible to buy Toyota or Panasonic - and VAZ with Eletkronika will be normal
                only in the long term it is degradation, which the history has shown that VAZ, that consumer electronics
                borders opened - and hc
                1. 0
                  30 September 2022 09: 55
                  Everything is funnier here. You can, briefly, recall the history of the Japanese car industry ... Another thing is that for us, in real life, this is of little use, but it still works))
                  1. Kim
                    0
                    30 September 2022 11: 01
                    answer stuck and lost :(
                    can you say a few words? compare with your picture of the world
                    1. -1
                      30 September 2022 11: 42
                      That famous story. At first they sculpted so-so carts, which is not surprising. Then the government said that it would introduce customs barriers for a fixed period of time. And then take it off. And so it did. And during this period, the samurai learned how to make cars. Not right away, of course, but we learned. And in our country, the introduction of these fences led to the fact that the effective owner just scored a horse bolter for development and upgrade. Even in sickle, the minister of the automobile industry asks the director of the automobile plant, they say, when will you make cars instead of buckets with bolts? And he answers, like, but nafua? and so they take it. Moreover, both were cunning, but the minister - more)))
                      1. Kim
                        0
                        30 September 2022 11: 53
                        clear
                        I didn't know about customs.
                        I'll know :)
          2. +1
            29 September 2022 07: 47
            Quote: ASAD
            from Russian only pallets.

            There are Chinese nails.
        2. +2
          29 September 2022 08: 26
          Do we have universities no longer graduating engineers?

          Our universities have long been focused on graduating specialists for Western countries and Israel. This is done by wonderful teachers who respect Western values ​​very much.
        3. +2
          29 September 2022 09: 34
          Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
          ? Do we have universities no longer graduating engineers?

          An acquaintance won the Olympiad in chemistry, entered the institute, studied for 4 years. Money was needed. In Russia, for a student, I was able to find a casual one-time job of 2000 rubles a day. True, with the prospect of learning how to build dosing production (concrete, dry mixes, bakeries, chipboard production plants). Not enough money. Through acquaintances in Kyrgyzstan, he got a job in South Korea. The salary is about 100-150 dollars a day. There is an opportunity to continue higher education if you have brains, and he has brains if he won the Chemistry Olympiad in Russia. If you learn Korean, the salary will be 2 times higher. Under these conditions, the retired mother, after serving in the National Guard, began to learn South Korean.
        4. 0
          30 September 2022 09: 53
          Released. And among them sometimes there are sensible ones. Approximately in the same ratio as with the union. From only an engineer is obtained after 10 years of practice under sensible guidance. And now tell me where it can now be seen in significant quantities. I'm talking about sensible leadership))
          1. 0
            30 September 2022 11: 00
            Any specialist is formed with sensible leadership, I agree. But if a person aspired to become an engineer, then, probably, he can try to design something on his own, right? And if he cannot do this, then his diploma is a fake. A diploma means that a person has completed a course of study and is a certified specialist. And by definition, he must solve the entire range of tasks that he was taught. Here's an analogy for you: a driver who has just received a license. Yes, he will "finish his studies" in the process of driving, but he is already a full-fledged road user, with all the rights and obligations.
            1. 0
              30 September 2022 11: 37
              A diploma means that a person has completed a course of study and is a certified specialist.

              Are you joking? In the union, where they taught somewhat better and there were no problems with work, the newly made cardboard carrier had not been an engineer for three years. He was the so-called. "young specialist", he could not even be punished for jambs)))) I'm talking about professional ones, for seducing the director's wife - it was possible wink
              1. 0
                30 September 2022 11: 52
                I understand your idea, but I cannot accept it. The university is obliged to produce a ready-made specialist. Like a technical school, oh, a college. Otherwise, the price of such an education and such a diploma is worthless. I have already made an analogy. The driver also does not immediately become a normal driver after receiving the VU. But he can immediately get behind the wheel and drive along the road. It's the same with a diploma: received, so you should immediately be ready to fulfill your duties. No - the diploma is cancelled.
                1. 0
                  30 September 2022 11: 58
                  Then you need to cancel the so-called. educational institutions))) What then, what now, all the more .... Schools, however, can be left, we have a compulsory secondary, with all the consequences
                  1. 0
                    30 September 2022 12: 11
                    Then you need to cancel the so-called. educational institutions)))
                    I would not cancel them, but simply correct their work. Too bad I don't have that option. smile
                    Schools, however, can be left, we have a compulsory secondary, with all the consequences
                    The average was in the USSR. Now, according to my observations, we have a compulsory lower-secondary education. sad
                    1. -1
                      30 September 2022 12: 15
                      I would not cancel them, but simply correct their work.

                      Education, like the army, like medicine, like the police, like housing and communal services)) is part of the state and society. so....
                      Now, according to my observations, we have a compulsory lower-secondary education.

                      See above feel
                      1. +1
                        30 September 2022 12: 20
                        I do not argue, adjustments are required everywhere. But the main thing is that a state ideology is required. It is required to restore people's understanding that the state is the population and the territory on which this population lives. And that every person, the honest work of every person is important and necessary for the state. Until that happens, there will be nothing else.
                      2. -1
                        30 September 2022 12: 24
                        Alas, no. This is the fundamental error of all such reasoning.
                      3. 0
                        30 September 2022 12: 27
                        I'm too lazy to argue, so I won't. At some other time! hi
    2. 0
      29 September 2022 07: 23
      After all, Russia has always had no less "brains", and maybe more than in the West !!!


      ... alas, no ... In the best years of the USSR, there were 8 (eight) Nobel laureates at the Academy of Sciences under the leadership of Keldysh. Today in the Russian Academy of Sciences there are 0 (zero).....
      1. -1
        29 September 2022 08: 12
        Maybe it's the quality of the Nobel laureates ???
    3. +2
      29 September 2022 08: 21
      Quote: polk26l
      WEAKLY ?!

      Not weak, but sooooo expensive and sooo economically unprofitable!
    4. +3
      29 September 2022 12: 32
      Quote: polk26l
      And what!? To develop in Russia its own technologies and electronics, more modern and advanced than that of the Americans and their satellites - WEAK ?!
      Yes! Definitely weak! Nothing can be done with brains alone.
  9. +7
    29 September 2022 06: 16
    In any case, Russia will have to make a breakthrough in the military technologies of the future, since all “modern” developments are a thing of the past.

    I agree ... but this should not be done anyhow, but purposefully investing resources in key areas of new technologies.
    The collapse of electronics factories came back to us in the 90s ... now we again need to make a breakthrough in electronic equipment technologies.
    1. +2
      29 September 2022 09: 28
      Is the collapse in the 90s over? And why only now it is necessary to make a breakthrough?
      1. 0
        29 September 2022 12: 09
        And before that, they strengthened the vertical, built sovereign democracy, olympiads, championships ... And now, according to the plan, the time has come for a breakthrough ....
  10. +7
    29 September 2022 06: 24
    Surely the main Western blocks of board chips for state loans have been purchased and are in warehouses for 5-7 years of production, and small things of their own + China, Malaysia, Vietnam will help ...
    1. +6
      29 September 2022 06: 50
      If this was done by the same people who planned the SVO and reported on the rearmament of the army by 80%, then it is unlikely
    2. +1
      29 September 2022 07: 16
      Surely the main Western block board chips for state loans were purchased
      Maybe so. The question is not what is in the warehouses, but why we have not yet developed our own blocks and have not established their production.
  11. +4
    29 September 2022 06: 25
    stupid article .. stupid because its logical basis is the conviction that something published on the Internet for general use can be trusted (the exception is narrowly profiled and scientific information). The truth of information oriented to an overwhelmingly wide range of unprepared public (suckers) is no more than 10%.
    1. +3
      29 September 2022 06: 29
      The article as a whole is correct, if you can write smarter ..
      1. 0
        30 September 2022 07: 06
        Anything smarter is not subject to publicity.
  12. 0
    29 September 2022 06: 27
    Why our equipment gets to the ugly .... cams. Why wasn't it destroyed? Everything, as always, is hushed up. And where are the missiles (air defense, rocket launchers, radars) ubl ... s? Why don't we have them yet?
  13. +9
    29 September 2022 06: 27
    Please return dislikes to articles, why are we forced to read outright nonsense? Look at telegram photos and videos of the wreckage of American and British missiles and you will be extremely surprised that there is no smell of technology there.
    1. Kim
      +4
      29 September 2022 07: 14
      furiously plus
      then nothing, and then -

    2. +2
      29 September 2022 07: 52
      Quote: Pankrat25
      Please return dislikes to articles, why are we forced to read outright nonsense? Look at telegram photos and videos of the wreckage of American and British missiles and you will be extremely surprised that there is no smell of technology there.

      So there is the usual stuffing, which they produce. But our military-industrial complex cannot master such components
      1. -1
        29 September 2022 21: 04
        So there is the usual filling, which they produce

        Who releases?
        Britain and the USA cannot even make lithographic equipment.
        1. 0
          30 September 2022 06: 48
          Quote from stelltok
          So there is the usual filling, which they produce

          Who releases?
          Britain and the USA cannot even make lithographic equipment.

          What does the equipment have to do with it? Cast machines are produced by 2 companies in the world, they are bought by chip manufacturers. Chip manufacturers stamp controllers and microcircuits.
          1. 0
            30 September 2022 09: 24
            What's with the equipment?

            With that.
            If the United States and Britain are deprived of access to lithograph equipment.
            All electronics companies (US and UK) to stop.
            1. -2
              30 September 2022 10: 32
              Quote from stelltok
              What's with the equipment?

              With that.
              If the United States and Britain are deprived of access to lithograph equipment.
              All electronics companies (US and UK) to stop.

              Well, take it away. At the same time, stop all the equipment that is already in the factories
    3. 0
      29 September 2022 09: 34
      Is that how technology was determined by photo and video?
      1. +4
        29 September 2022 12: 02
        Naturally, what surprises you so much that I recognized the radioelements of the late 1980s? To do this, I don’t even need to look at them, it’s enough to feel, I won’t even look for a datasheet, it’s too outdated garbage. and in the photo for the article everything is quite civilized and modern and more than enough for the main task.
      2. +4
        29 September 2022 18: 35
        British missile AGM-88, put into production in 2010, here is a photo of the filling:

        Pankrat25 is right, you can determine by touch laughing laughing Late 1980s filling. More than 120 of them have already been shot in Ukraine.
        1. +2
          29 September 2022 21: 20
          I'll correct you a little. The American, not British, AGM-88 missile was developed and put into service in 1983, so it is not surprising that some of the blocks of that time were preserved with various upgrades.
  14. +7
    29 September 2022 06: 27
    And what has Skolkovo been doing for so many years?
    1. +5
      29 September 2022 07: 01
      And what has Skolkovo been doing for so many years?

      Sawed...
      1. -1
        29 September 2022 07: 17
        Moreover, an imported saw!
    2. -2
      29 September 2022 08: 29
      And what has Skolkovo been doing for so many years?

      Who led it, remember?
      1. +3
        29 September 2022 09: 35
        Yes, at the same time remind who put it
  15. 0
    29 September 2022 06: 34
    guided missiles 9M544 from MLRS "Tornado-S" (were captured in Balakliya)

    This is in addition to the professional T90.
    There is no evil here. Couldn't it have been covered with artillery during the retreat?
    And then why keep secret ammunition for long-range systems at the forefront?
    Not otherwise, all the same, it was someone's sabotage.
    1. +3
      29 September 2022 08: 31
      This is in addition to the professional T90.
      There is no evil here. Couldn't it have been covered with artillery during the retreat?

      We do not have a war, but a NWO. If you destroy the equipment, you will pay for it for the rest of your life.
    2. 0
      29 September 2022 08: 47
      yes, there is nothing secret there, they sold c400 to NATO
    3. +1
      29 September 2022 09: 38
      What other sabotage? Konashenkov explained to you that there was no retreat, the guys hid and thought to return for him
  16. 0
    29 September 2022 06: 34
    This is not at all a surprise. Both the Ka-52 and Caliber were developed in those years when there was no problem with the supply of microelectronics from abroad.
    Import substitution of foreign chips means re-development of the entire product. But it never came to that, because there are no analogues of our kind.
    1. +1
      29 September 2022 07: 03
      There are analogues. Import substitution in the development and production of weapons and military equipment is the most important issue that has never been left without attention, even in the 90s and 200s. When creating a new weapon on an imported element base, the process of import-substituting developments of this very base is going on in parallel. And not all in a row, but the one that is most critical. So you don’t have to worry about this: our military-industrial complex will not remain without transistors and microcircuits.
      1. 0
        29 September 2022 07: 49
        Quote: Pavel73
        There are analogues. Import substitution in the development and production of weapons and military equipment is the most important issue that has never been left without attention, even in the 90s and 200s. When creating a new weapon on an imported element base, the process of import-substituting developments of this very base is going on in parallel. And not all in a row, but the one that is most critical. So you don’t have to worry about this: our military-industrial complex will not remain without transistors and microcircuits.

        True? But the head of a microelectronics enterprise complains that his unique employees are being mobilized.
        1. +2
          29 September 2022 09: 40
          So the analogs are different ...
          Chinese for example
  17. 0
    29 September 2022 06: 46
    Quote: polk26l
    And what!? To develop in Russia its own technologies and electronics, more modern and advanced than that of the Americans and their satellites - WEAK ?! After all, Russia has always had no less "brains", or maybe more, than in the West !!!

    Our machine tool industry stands on four backbones, but in other words, it doesn’t exist. Our minds have been working abroad for a long time for a Western uncle; the rest of the minds study at Universities that graduate managers, accountants, lawyers, and everything that in general with mechanical engineering and the production of electronics is not even close.
    And the new young minds are tiktokers, bloggers, food vendors and consultants in MVideo, and if a smart guy really shoots somewhere, I think he will immediately be processed by Western grants and dragged to the west.
    1. -4
      29 September 2022 07: 04
      Google machine tool companies and factories. And then delete your comment. Write stereotypes without knowing anything
      1. 0
        29 September 2022 09: 26
        Our machines to the western still grow and grow. When I was studying at a technical university, the teacher told us that the main parameters that affect the quality of the part are tolerances and fit (assuming the same material). So, in terms of the quality of processing, we then lagged behind by 10-15 years. Now I think more. There are no noticeable improvements.
        1. 0
          29 September 2022 09: 57
          I worked at UMPO, with Russian machines. Just three years ago. And I can say that there were many Russian machine tools, there were also many imported ones, but the newest ones were Russian. Of course, not very comfortable, original, but I managed to do the same on them as on imported ones.
          1. +3
            29 September 2022 10: 45
            And in Russian machines, were all the components domestic? Or just a Russian tag?
            1. +1
              29 September 2022 12: 11
              More electricity inside. When it's on.
            2. 0
              1 October 2022 00: 26
              And on American machines, all components are American. Or maybe in American planes .....
  18. -1
    29 September 2022 06: 53
    What about the meaning? Well, here's someone who is trying to copy our military aircraft engines. So what? It doesn’t work, the eopia are weaker and the resource is much lower. And why? Because alloys cannot get the same details of the desired properties. The devil is in the details.
    So it is with our missiles. They can turn off the same navigation on approach with the help of electronic warfare, but in this case there are inertial sensors. Accuracy will decrease of course, but not by much.
  19. +3
    29 September 2022 06: 53
    I would not be in a hurry to believe these "specialists" - no one has yet canceled DESU! I would like to recall the story of the MiG-25 ...
  20. +4
    29 September 2022 06: 56
    Considering what our radio-electronic industry turned into after the collapse of the USSR and all military-industrial cooperation (and a significant part of the element base was made in Ukraine and the Baltic states), there is nothing surprising in the fact that during the years of devastation, when developing new weapons systems, one had to use the most advanced imported element base. But this does not mean that at the same time the issues of creating domestic analogues of microcircuits and transistors were not raised, and that nothing has been done since then.
  21. -1
    29 September 2022 07: 00
    Quote: ASAD
    And no one wants to share technology.

    So, it is necessary to steal technology. Or buy through third countries...
    1. +4
      29 September 2022 09: 42
      They do it, but not with technology - it's troublesome, but with finished products
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. +2
    29 September 2022 07: 18
    "But the steps forward must be started today." (c) Roman.
    Not today, but pose-pose-yesterday. With electronics that make weapons "intelligent", we have nothing for 20 years at best. Here, either a fantastic breakthrough with X-ray maskless lithography or a recognition of defeat on this front (although the recognition, it seems, took place in the form of specific samples). So for now, only China, and even then with nuances.
  24. +4
    29 September 2022 07: 26
    Again, let us recall similar situations in our history. In the process of a sharp increase in the number of produced T-34 tanks, the range of parts was halved. Likewise with trucks.
    With cruise missiles. Simplify algorithms, look for replacements for microcircuits with analogues, reduce the range of parts - this will make it possible to increase output. But the main thing is to set tasks for engineers and managers and ask them strictly. Thought in an extreme situation can produce wonderful solutions. This is the strength of the Russian engineering school. "Necessity is cunning for inventions", "It's not the gods who burn the pots." And more importantly, it is necessary to end with eyewash. I think everyone understands what I'm talking about. Even Stalin managed with difficulty this struggle. All reports and figures and promises were questioned and rechecked.
    1. -5
      29 September 2022 07: 46
      Quote: Former soldier
      Again, let us recall similar situations in our history. In the process of a sharp increase in the number of produced T-34 tanks, the range of parts was halved. Likewise with trucks.
      With cruise missiles. Simplify algorithms, look for replacements for microcircuits with analogues, reduce the range of parts - this will make it possible to increase output. But the main thing is to set tasks for engineers and managers and ask them strictly. Thought in an extreme situation can produce wonderful solutions. This is the strength of the Russian engineering school. "Necessity is cunning for inventions", "It's not the gods who burn the pots." And more importantly, it is necessary to end with eyewash. I think everyone understands what I'm talking about. Even Stalin managed with difficulty this struggle. All reports and figures and promises were questioned and rechecked.

      Today there was news. An ordinary student on a 3D printer makes a combined night vision sight and a thermal imager
      1. +1
        29 September 2022 09: 44
        The sight and the thermal imager are, of course, Russian?
      2. +3
        29 September 2022 13: 47
        pnv sight and thermal imager
        Are matrices and lenses also on the printer?
  25. -5
    29 September 2022 07: 43
    Leave even more samples of weapons to the enemy, sc..ko
  26. 0
    29 September 2022 07: 48
    I will express my opinion - And what did YOU want, gentlemen, with a global market and the division of types of production in the world? All-propellers got it. Who is guilty? The answer lies on the surface, only the “postmen” are appointed guilty, for example, as military registration and enlistment offices were dumped in the mud during mobilization, and the fact that this system was systematically destroyed by higher “strategists” is silent about that. The most important thing is how to get out of this situation... And it's not about nanometer technologies, about which there was a dispute in the comments, but in our scientific school. Take the Iranians, the Persians did everything cheaply and cheerfully, or our Russian world in Israel, I am sure that 70% of their engineering staff speaks Russian. So what am I talking about - the task has been received, and then how to perform it, you can’t steal, buy, bribe; main result!
  27. +1
    29 September 2022 07: 52
    Quote: Pilat2009
    Quote: Former soldier
    Again, let us recall similar situations in our history. In the process of a sharp increase in the number of produced T-34 tanks, the range of parts was halved. Likewise with trucks.
    With cruise missiles. Simplify algorithms, look for replacements for microcircuits with analogues, reduce the range of parts - this will make it possible to increase output. But the main thing is to set tasks for engineers and managers and ask them strictly. Thought in an extreme situation can produce wonderful solutions. This is the strength of the Russian engineering school. "Necessity is cunning for inventions", "It's not the gods who burn the pots." And more importantly, it is necessary to end with eyewash. I think everyone understands what I'm talking about. Even Stalin managed with difficulty this struggle. All reports and figures and promises were questioned and rechecked.

    Today there was news. An ordinary student on a 3D printer makes a combined night vision sight and a thermal imager

    Do you mean the sight bar on the body for the thermal imager?
  28. -2
    29 September 2022 07: 55
    Quote: Pilat2009

    True? But the head of a microelectronics enterprise complains that his unique employees are being mobilized.

    And what are the conclusions from this? Microelectronics enterprise does not make microelectronics?
    1. 0
      30 September 2022 06: 51
      Quote: Pavel73
      Quote: Pilat2009

      True? But the head of a microelectronics enterprise complains that his unique employees are being mobilized.

      And what are the conclusions from this? Microelectronics enterprise does not make microelectronics?

      Such a specialist has been trained for 10 years. Will you put a Tajik in his place?
      1. +1
        30 September 2022 07: 03
        What enterprise, what kind of unique specialists, and they were definitely mobilized or returned back? - how can you argue without knowing the details?
  29. +6
    29 September 2022 07: 56
    Quote: Pilat2009
    Leave even more samples of weapons to the enemy, sc..ko

    The enemy had the opportunity to receive fragments of samples from Syria. Yes, and moles in Russia have been traveling and communicating freely for 30 years. In general, they dig.
  30. +3
    29 September 2022 08: 02
    . have to do breakthrough in the military technologies of the future, since all "modern" developments are in the past

    I agree. There is no time for slacking off. Well, but to make a breakthrough with a breakthrough, we are not the first. Under the skillful guidance of our superiors!

    What can be the way out of this situation? And he just doesn't exist. It is unrealistic to take and replace overnight foreign components and chips - this is not even a dozen years in time, a lot of money, relevant research institutes and specialized equipment, which also does not exist.
  31. +3
    29 September 2022 08: 33
    Yes, what kind of technologies are there that are not known to Americans or Israelis, whom does the author want to make fun of here? What kind of breakthrough technology is needed for the Caliber inertial guidance system? The issue with the presence of gas turbine engines - for 30 years of getting up from his knees - not a single serial engine has been produced.
  32. Eug
    0
    29 September 2022 08: 57
    Interesting information for reflection - against which countries to impose sanctions of the 2nd stage. For some reason, I am sure that the Anglo-Saxons did not make a special bet on sanctions against Russia specifically, but will squeeze it "in layers", so to speak, "by the method of successive approximation" to the desired result. From the point of view of professionalism, I admire the level of thinking of the author of the idea of ​​"sabotage" on pipelines - in the event that gas contracts for Europe are fulfilled, the Russian Federation will be forced to increase pumping through the Ukrainian GTS, thereby financing ZSU and military operations against itself. And if we also take into account that under the contract 45 billion cubic meters per year are pumped at one tariff (also not a penny), and above this amount at a sharply increased one, then financing of Ukraine and everything related will (if it is) not sickly ...
    1. -3
      29 September 2022 09: 07
      Quote: Vladimir Michailovich
      What kind of breakthrough technology is needed for the Caliber inertial guidance system? The issue with the presence of gas turbine engines - for 30 years of getting up from his knees - not a single serial engine has been produced.

      But is the engine for Caliber assembled from imported parts like electronics, and then not samples of cruise missiles, but their fragments fell into the hands of Western experts
    2. -1
      29 September 2022 11: 54
      Well, such a fork is solved quite simply - by undermining the Ukrainian GTS in many places.
    3. 0
      29 September 2022 13: 03
      in the event of the execution of gas contracts in Europe, the Russian Federation will be forced to increase pumping through the Ukrainian GTS, thereby financing the ZSU and military operations against itself.

      According to the published terms of the last contract, she pays anyway. Then it's her business, to download or not to download ...
      1. Eug
        +1
        29 September 2022 16: 03
        It pays in any - yes, but again, if it doesn’t pump or pumps up to 45 billion cubic meters (or another figure), then the tariff is one, if it pumps more, then the tariff rises sharply .. I used to evaluate this clause of the contract as a "puncture" Naftogaz, now it looks like the failure of the joint venture (of all) was foreseen ....
        1. +1
          29 September 2022 16: 08
          Am I arguing? I'm just for what we pay at any time. Although I don’t download anything))) Shaw is typical for Naftogaz. And yet, judging by the minus, there are people who are sure that this is not so)))
          And with the joint venture ... Sorry, of course, but it was predictable. The only question was when? It's not even the captain here, it's junior s-t Obviousness. But questions should be asked to those who created all this graveyard .... created .....
  33. +4
    29 September 2022 09: 17
    In Syria, we got almost whole tomahawks, so what? Does the United States urgently need to decommission them?
  34. +2
    29 September 2022 09: 23
    Geranium-2, despite its simplicity, works. We do not have the ability to create weapons at the price of a death star in commercial quantities. If the missiles have chips from the 90s, but they hit the target, and that's fine. The main thing is that there should be many of these missiles, and they should be cheap.
  35. 0
    29 September 2022 10: 20
    I am not an expert in this field, so explain to me how you can remotely harm a satellite signal receiver, and even more so simple assemblies and chips? How can software algorithms be defined by architecture? If circuit elements cannot have external influences, how can they reduce reliability? It seems to me that "everything is lost" is still far away.
    1. 0
      29 September 2022 11: 52
      There is no way other than to knock it down. induce an EMP somehow. Well, or activate the bookmark by radio signal. But bookmarks, this is more from the field of conspiracy theories and little science fiction.

      All of the above can be done with any other weapon, incl. and American on native components. Well, except for the option with a bookmark, perhaps.
    2. -2
      29 September 2022 12: 08
      How can software algorithms be defined by architecture?

      And if there are ROMs with this very algorithm?
  36. +1
    29 September 2022 10: 36
    "Caliber" after opening by American experts: is there any prospect
    . Such events, the consequences of which are stretched over time!
    If you do not specifically focus attention, the majority will not notice what, how and why happened.
  37. 0
    29 September 2022 10: 38
    erroneously narrow vision. The option "no one is lying", the author missed, maybe intentionally, for intrigue. Missiles were produced and stockpiled. Who can rule out that modern production, components, are now more "import-substitutive", and what got to them is less? Second, a well-known fact - the Americans landed on the moon with so-called. a computer with 125 kilobytes of RAM, and then and now no one has sat anywhere, do you understand what this is about? There is probably a quite reasonable in meaning, limitation of equipment, the high cost of it, if the "product" solves the tasks set. You can make a washing machine that speaks to a woman, moreover, in her language, but what the hell is that? Chipping. Few will deny the backlog. Yeltsinism is a catastrophic phenomenon, as many people who are not "liberals" with a traditional sexual orientation understand. Yeltsin himself understood this at the end of 1999.
  38. +3
    29 September 2022 11: 35
    It is interesting to know, but the T-14 Armata tank, the Su-57 fighter are also full of surprises of Western and Asian origin? Something tells me it is! The constant search for easy ways, eyewash and bravura lies will not lead to good.
    1. +2
      29 September 2022 11: 50
      Definitely. From rugged monitors and chips to trackballs and terminals.
    2. +5
      29 September 2022 18: 59
      Well, call me a domestic flat matrix (monitor) of a color graphic image? Weak? It’s weak for me, although I have been professionally engaged in electronics for more than 25 years. In Russia, there is no production of LCD or OLED screens, almost from the word at all. Last year, 1-inch OLED screens were mastered. And EVERYTHING! In Russia, color graphic screens are not produced at all, so if you see that the pilot is looking at a modern display, then it is definitely imported!
      1. -1
        1 October 2022 21: 27
        that the pilot is looking at a modern display, then he is definitely imported!

        No, this is not so.
        There is a company in the Russian Federation that makes displays
        http://cyclone-oled.com/index.html
        1. +1
          2 October 2022 08: 13
          I apparently expressed it incomprehensibly, any display can almost be made in my garage, there is nothing complicated at all, but the matrix itself is not produced for modern displays, there are only tiny ones, the size of a fingernail for sights in optics.
  39. 0
    29 September 2022 11: 48
    The Americans came to the conclusion that very many blocks in cruise missiles were produced using non-Russian components and were even able to establish the dates of their production. From 2012 to 2020.

    Separately, the blocks of the downed Ka-52 helicopter were investigated. There was also a fair amount of imported parts.


    Opening right! This is such a trend, it is very soft and streamlined to talk about the share of imported electronics in the domestic military-industrial complex. On the one hand, it is impossible to induce panic, and on the other hand, it is impossible to hide the dependence.
  40. 0
    29 September 2022 11: 49
    Orlan-3

    Apparently there is a typo. The original must be either Orlan-30 or Eleron-3
    1. +1
      2 October 2022 08: 19
      Strange as it may seem, but the Internet found such a thing, apparently it was produced earlier, and the military correspondents wrote in the summer that they bought all the civilian drones released earlier in Russia. There, at one time, there were problems on the Chinese border, drones did not let through.
      But one way or another, this article did not become smarter from that. Amateurs are stubborn in their ignorance and regularly write such articles, absolutely not understanding what they are writing about. Advertised technologies in nanometers and an insane number of transistors in a microcircuit, only gamers need to beautifully and quickly draw a picture on a monitor or build a data center. In military technology, all this is pointless, they need universal microcontrollers, which theoretically our industry can do right now, but in practice, with the stubbornness of maniacs, they dragged everything from behind a hillock. Here are questions about the military acceptance at the enterprise, which allowed them to do this.
      1. -1
        2 October 2022 11: 33
        Well, maybe, although I've never heard of such a thing. However, the Internet knows better smile
        Regarding the pursuit of nanometers, I partially agree. In the topic under discussion - the production of Caliber missiles or what the Iskander hits with, this, if not meaningless, then certainly not critical. Enough of what we produce ourselves.
        The question begins to sound somewhat different when it comes to radio stations, navigation equipment, or, even worse, wearable fire control automation equipment. With PUO-9M, PRK-75 and TA-57 it is possible to perform fire missions even today, but, alas, it is becoming more and more difficult to win a fire duel with the enemy.
        And the question here is not even about military acceptance - its role at enterprises is certainly important, but not decisive. They only control the quality of work performance and its compliance with approved regulatory documents. And if the head of the enterprise managed to approve the customer's decision on the use of foreign-made components, then the military representative will only have to shrug. And enterprises have a lot of opportunities to approve such decisions - former generals, "walkers" to high offices to their yesterday's colleagues, each of them has more than one in the state. Who is the head of the VP against them - a major or, at best, a lieutenant colonel?
        1. +1
          2 October 2022 19: 24
          You misunderstood me, I'm not talking about the use of foreign components, but about the manufacturer of the component, when he sells an imported microcircuit under the guise of his own microcircuit, produced on his equipment. At the same time, it is listed in the list of permitted MOs as completely domestic, and like a fried rooster pecked, they write a plaintive letter that everything, Finita la comedy, there will be no more imported microcircuits! And where did the military representative look when he put his signature under an imported microcircuit with a domestic name ????
          1. 0
            2 October 2022 19: 31
            And where did the military representative look when he put his signature under an imported microcircuit with a domestic name ????

            And how could he not put it on, if according to all documents it officially passes as domestic? Here it was necessary to attract forces a little more seriously than the VP MO. For example, DVKR (should it be decoded?). And if these did not work, then what claims to the military representative?
  41. -2
    29 September 2022 11: 50
    Defense steps should have been taken the day before yesterday, not today. Balabolstvo never brought to good, It's time to get rid of capitalism and the oligarchy, poseurs, these are the very first traitors. Putin can't do it? Then we must directly tell the people, we will sweep them away at once! And it will be easy to breathe!
  42. -2
    29 September 2022 12: 12
    In general, it is worth recognizing that the USSR spent almost the entire time of its existence under sanctions.

    Yes, and not really.
    Even being not recognized "de jure" at all, the USSR managed to obtain not only the most modern weapons for studying and organizing their own production, but also the most advanced technologies and industrial equipment.
    To understand that this is indeed the case, it is enough to recall the history of the appearance of the T-26 and BT tanks, the results of the trips of the commission of Soviet specialists to Germany, specific articles and the range of deliveries under the Soviet-German trade agreement of 1939, etc.
    And the activity of Western scientists in "familiarizing" Soviet intelligence with developments in the field of nuclear and other advanced weapons is not in last place in the question of achieving parity with our country with the world gendarme.
    But, unlike modern Russia, in addition to questions of simple economic benefit or the prospects for enrichment of individual officials (which is quite achievable today), in the case of the USSR, there was another very, very important factor that forced scientists, designers and even entrepreneurs of the collective West to completely volunteer to help us in every possible way. The USSR was an alternative to capitalism with all its vices, which are well known, including abroad, and had many supporters among even non-direct followers of the idea of ​​building communism, even in the whole world, even in a single country. At that time, we had something to offer the world in return for the political and economic expansion of the Capitol, and very many among the progressive public appreciated this and sometimes, accordingly, took certain steps that were not very useless for us.
    And what can we now offer representatives of progressive humanity, so to speak? Hero of Labor Rotenberg? Not funny...
  43. 0
    29 September 2022 12: 29
    The president's task is to formulate a country's development strategy: which means identifying possible threats to its existence, bottlenecks, weaknesses in its economy and social sphere, and forming a budget in such a way as to eliminate these shortcomings. And in accordance with the strategy, the formation of a team of performers, taking into account the fact that in this formation there may be miscalculations that will need to be quickly eliminated. Now consider how the country's development strategy was implemented? The basic sectors of the country: agriculture, light industry, food industry - have not been able to fully meet the needs of the country. Farmers continue to sell raw materials abroad: grain, instead of selling more expensive livestock products. This indicates a lack of vertically integrated enterprises in this industry. The President argued that the country that is the furthest advanced in the creation of artificial intelligence will become dominant in other areas. But what specific actions followed such an assertion? Mikron, the country's leading electronics enterprise, is on the verge of bankruptcy, it produces chips using 65 nanometer technology, while modern foreign electronics enterprises produce 2-3 nanometers. All the time of Putin's presidency, our industry has been buying chips abroad, instead of purchasing equipment for their production. And now we have closed the possibility of the legal possibility of these purchases. Apparently, this caused the need for partial mobilization, we will have to win not by skill, but by numbers.
  44. -4
    29 September 2022 12: 32
    There are no problems in the supply of electronic parts for the defense industry, as long as there is money, you must agree .. and drugs that are strictly prohibited can be obtained if there is money
  45. +3
    29 September 2022 13: 11
    Representatives of this respected at that time structure analyzed this breakthrough in Soviet submarine shipbuilding and found a direct dependence on the sale of CNC machines, coupled with metal processing technologies from the Japanese company Toshiba and the Norwegian Kongsberg. These CNC machines were used to make advanced submarine propellers that reduced the noise the submarine made while underway.

    It is clear that neither the Japanese nor the Norwegians could even imagine at that time that their machines were purchased for work in the Soviet Union.

    Yes, everyone knew everything.
    Toshiba Machine's exporter, C. Itoh & Company, entered into a supply agreement with the Soviet Techmashimport. The Norwegian company "Kongsberg Trade" also signed an agreement with him.
    Moreover, it was "Toshiba Machine" and "Kongsberg Trade" who sent documents with underestimated performance characteristics of machines and controllers to the export control authorities, according to which they were not subject to restrictions.
    Moreover, as the investigation established, the Norwegians and Japanese regularly practiced such circumvention of restrictions - before that, similar schemes were used to supply machine tools for Atommash.

    Just the notorious "300% profit" works wonders.

    But in general, the situation was good: the American puppet supplies machine tools for the production of Soviet nuclear submarines, and it does this through the state defense enterprise of a NATO country. laughing
    1. +2
      29 September 2022 14: 44
      the American puppet supplies machine tools for the production of Soviet nuclear submarines, and does this through the state defense enterprise of a NATO country.

      Previously, in sentences in such cases it was written "with special cynicism" feel
  46. -3
    29 September 2022 13: 14
    KR Caliber technology - KR Tomgawk technology from the Iraq War ... with the appropriate size of circuit boards and electronics. And, Wangyu, 90 percent is used in industry ... The stupidity and greed of our Ministry of Industry and Trade in terms of the production of Microelectronics does not allow us to produce electronics up to 65Nm
  47. +1
    29 September 2022 13: 16
    Gorbachev generously sang mantras about "perestroika". Then it was perceived very well - they say, "the process is underway", everything is fine, no need to twitch, you can sleep peacefully. Where they "rebuilt" as a result, and where and to what they "came" - we all see.
    And now I am tormented by vague doubts about the fact that the notorious "import substitution" is the same soothing, lulling fairy tale a la Gorbachev. Like, the process is underway, sleep peacefully. And one day you will wake up in a new country, in a new reality.
    This is such a criminal lullaby ...
  48. 0
    29 September 2022 13: 37
    On Roy TV there is a video there, the author did not voice the whole report, but there are a lot of imported electronics according to our samples
  49. -1
    29 September 2022 13: 39
    Strelkov has a new video with Klimov, I recommend watching it
  50. -1
    29 September 2022 13: 48
    The Americans do not understand the Russians a little and have forgotten that World War II, the Soviet people won absolutely not because of money, even people fainted at the machine because of hunger and irregular work - everything for the front, everything for victory!
  51. +3
    29 September 2022 14: 12
    The fact that the level of technology there is “2000s at best” does not in the least prevent these weapons from hitting targets. But the USA and Co. may well knock the stool out from under our ability to buy microelectronic components; this is the most real danger.
  52. 0
    29 September 2022 17: 05
    If they lied to us (and I think they did, “import substitution” fairy tales are our reality), then everything is even worse.


    As always, the Russian Vanya with the Soviet AK will, on his own, correct the mistakes in import substitution of the “fuck** corrupt reformers*....
  53. +2
    29 September 2022 18: 10
    Quote from: starik-an
    Clean first

    All this is true, BUT how and who will do it
  54. +1
    29 September 2022 18: 42
    Quote from Avesev
    Google machine tool companies and factories. And then delete your comment. Write stereotypes without knowing anything

    Son, I’ve been working at the plant for more than 20 years and I know everything from the inside, and it’s not for you to tell me anything and contradict what I wrote. I live in Siberia and I know everything that you or the TsPSoshnik or anyone who lives closer to the capital knows about all the machine tool industry in in general. Thanks to the USSR, on whose machines both young and pensioners still work and fulfill the duties assigned to them. Now, son, erase what you wrote and don’t write such crap again.
  55. +5
    29 September 2022 19: 16
    The author is true to himself: disregard for small (and not so small) details, just to look more dramatic.
    ".... It is clear that neither the Japanese nor the Norwegians could even imagine at that time that their machines were purchased for work in the Soviet Union...."
    The Japanese knew very well where they sold the machines. There is a lot written about the supply of Toshiba Kikai equipment to the USSR, just study it.
  56. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      29 September 2022 23: 59
      Dear man, can you tell me exactly what kind of electronics you do?
  57. 0
    29 September 2022 22: 18
    Even if it’s iron with holes (those in the know will understand), even if there’s a monkey pedaling inside the product, the main thing is that it flies to the target and destroys... Everything will come with time... IMHO
  58. -2
    29 September 2022 22: 39
    For the facts that technologies and products fall into the hands of the enemy, someone should go to court and be deprived of everything and anything... the West has already analyzed and blocked the supply chain
    1. +1
      30 September 2022 00: 02
      How many microcircuits do we need to purchase for the warehouse to produce 10 thousand... 100?... How many of them do we buy for reserve for this? Do you know?
  59. +4
    29 September 2022 22: 52
    The author is a strategic weapon that has been thoroughly studied by the enemy - it is not a weapon.

    A very controversial conclusion. And the comparison with the Stinger is not correct. The Stinger has the main component of the TGS, which most cruise missiles for hitting ground targets do not have. But for an inertial guidance system, it doesn’t matter what components it is based on.
  60. +1
    29 September 2022 23: 06
    War is about knocking out the expensive with the cheap. If other people's chips are cheaper, then why install your own expensive ones? I don't see anything critical. Yes, the samples were hit, badly. But this was to be expected...
  61. -1
    29 September 2022 23: 26
    Quote from kim
    if a rocket on components of the 90s level where it needs to fly and where it needs to hit - is that bad?

    Today is still quite normal. But in a week, when the enemy has an antidote, our pride will turn into ballast, the production of which will consume the budget, but will not cause damage to the enemy.
  62. The comment was deleted.
  63. +1
    30 September 2022 00: 45
    Here in the comments they are worried that there will be no imported components for missiles. First, it is not expensive; purchases of such rubbish during mass production are made with a large reserve. Secondly, now everything is so replaceable) The performance of the processor in a weak smartphone exceeds the performance of the computer that sent Armstrong to the moon (I won’t look for it) tens or even hundreds of times. The same geranium can easily reach its target controlled by a smartphone. Well, give him a special transceiver and off he goes. For the same automotive chips, the technology uses outdated 9nm everywhere. Because it's more reliable. And we have it too. So, )) there will be no problems with this.
  64. 0
    30 September 2022 01: 06
    Apparently, there is no hope for anyone except China, I don’t believe that our bureaucratic generals will establish chip production
  65. +3
    30 September 2022 01: 07
    You might think their Tamahawks are made with the latest technology. Everything costs the same as ours. NASA is still buying old Pentiums for space.
  66. +1
    30 September 2022 06: 22
    You don’t even need to read this author’s articles. As soon as I saw the name, it was immediately clear that everything was bad and everything was lost.
    1. -2
      30 September 2022 08: 08
      Quote: thrush68
      You don’t even need to read this author’s articles. As soon as I saw the name, it was immediately clear that everything was bad and everything was lost.

      Agree drinks
  67. 0
    30 September 2022 07: 28
    Quote: Romario_Argo
    produced since 2012 Caliber missiles
    if 100 missiles per month - per year 1200 x 10 years = 12 Caliber missiles

    Don't flatter yourself. No one else, including the United States, has such a rate of missile production.
    Here at VO three years ago there was information about production on the Novator of about 60 per year))). This order of numbers +- is what it used to be.
    Now, probably more, of course, if the chip supply channel has not been blocked.
    In any case, this is not baking pies. And with intensive consumption of such ammunition, sooner or later there will be a shortage. I think it has already arrived, and not yesterday.
  68. 0
    30 September 2022 07: 32
    We are no strangers to this. Jerks and breakthroughs constantly. The result is obvious. It’s just not clear that anyone has drawn any conclusions. The Kremlin has everything according to plan and they are in no hurry.
  69. +1
    30 September 2022 07: 47
    Quote: stankow
    General IC on 65 nm process more than enough for any weapon! Any type!

    This is with known target designation.

    And if necessary, receive video in real time by means of reconnaissance, transfer it to the processing point, not to mention processing on board, process the video stream, detect and recognize targets, their types, highlight priority ones or recommendations for priority targets, approve them (this is already a person , for now), and automatically load them into weapon systems...

    There are many more tasks than just using weapons to effectively counter the enemy, especially since NATO is now providing him with all these “goodies”. And believe me, only advanced high-performance computing systems can handle such a volume of calculations.

    And you say 65 nm.
    1. +1
      2 October 2022 19: 31
      Why the hell are you digitizing it ahead of time? For ultra-fast signal processing and performing complex mathematical operations on them in real time, an operational amplifier was invented half a century ago. This is the ideal thing for working in real time without delay.
  70. The comment was deleted.
  71. +7
    30 September 2022 09: 04
    Well, brothers?? Let's give up!!
    1. +1
      2 October 2022 19: 44
      https://vk.com/video137957445_456240094
  72. 0
    30 September 2022 09: 09
    The feeling that ours were shooting with something that had to be disposed of one way or another... I would have done so, especially since it flies and even hits
  73. 0
    30 September 2022 11: 49
    Great. They have a sample. They saw the contents, but did not open the brains. The presence of "calibers" and their use in the past already tells many experts what to expect from the enemy. The caliber was knocked down, so there is a way. They will study this method well. Now this is exactly what will not have an effect on the front. And then what? Sanctions on the military-industrial complex? We have enough reserves to bring the situation in Ukraine to a solution, if only the General Staff had enough intelligence. Yes, we have huge problems with the production of dual-use products. Yes, in electronics we are ahead of the rest, but from the end. But there is a panacea for an aggressive external environment - nuclear weapons. We will now be forced to raise industry. Like the union in the 30s, they didn’t sell tractors, they started making their own. All the property of the union was, of course, flushed down the toilet. But I want to believe that we can restore the factories. Build new ones. And we will be able to produce everything in our country: from nails to starships. We need political will. And most importantly, smart people. It seems to me that there are already people...
  74. +2
    30 September 2022 12: 42
    Amers have components from China, so what?!
  75. The comment was deleted.
  76. 0
    30 September 2022 13: 23
    Thanks to the pro-Western liberals and liberals who destroyed everything in the 90s: factories, scientific potential.
    As a result, we have what we have - everything is either created using developments from the times of the USSR, or from imported components, with all that it implies...
    And how was the Defense Ministry going to resist NATO with all its military, scientific and technical potential? Again, everything is counting on private infantry Vanya, who will withstand everything?
    Or counting on the presence of a nuclear club?
    So the presence of a nuclear club did not save the USSR from collapse and defeat in the Cold War...
  77. 0
    30 September 2022 14: 02
    produced some very interesting material. Interesting, but very controversial, and so I’m going to argue with all my zeal.

    so where is the argument... :)
    let alone zeal, I didn’t see any argument...
  78. 0
    30 September 2022 14: 50
    The missile must self-destruct and not fall into enemy hands.
  79. +2
    30 September 2022 15: 03
    Roman, you're exaggerating too much. Because the documentation on the RS-36M fell into the hands of the CIA in the mid-80s, the missile did not become worse and was not withdrawn from service. The control units can be modified, influencing the electronics of the missiles is possible only through the receiving devices - antenna, seeker and lens, the rest is shielded. This was already clear. They will not be able to pick up the “song” that will make the rockets fall to the ground.
  80. 0
    30 September 2022 15: 23
    This means that Dimon in the Silicon Valley near Moscow only squandered his money, well, just like Chubais...
  81. -4
    30 September 2022 20: 31
    The Russian military-industrial complex is entirely based on American-European components, because from the early 90s to the mid-2010s there were no others. The Chinese ones went normal a few years ago with a minimal nomenclature. If we take into account that the entire Russian military-industrial complex, like everything else in the country, is in deep Zh.., then the military-industrial complex will take more than a dozen years to move to Chinese microcircuits, the only theoretical good point may be that they use microcircuits of the consumer and industrial series, which can be obtained through shell companies, no one knows how everything will turn out and burn out... The comment is my personal opinion...
  82. +2
    30 September 2022 23: 10
    Novel! Why do you have all your information from foreign sources? Who provides them to you? Can they be trusted? And why do they publish this openly? Why are you sucking on this? It feels like the Russian army is below par, that the Ukrainians have shot down all the missiles, planes, and burned all the tanks. Well, or they captured us during our flight. You are Russian? It's time to think about it, or go to the Northern Military District.
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  84. +1
    30 September 2022 23: 34
    During the Great Patriotic War, the Luftwaffe also knew very well that they were being beaten by Russian plywood and Russian rags. The greater our glory.
  85. +1
    1 October 2022 00: 31
    Recently a childhood dream came true - I bought a tube amplifier. The sound is, of course, great. For me. Like in childhood from Rigonda. I looked for and bought our lamps as a reserve, some from the 60s. Amazing.
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  87. 0
    1 October 2022 03: 33
    Now Putin understands that he must strangle Chubais with his own hands, this red dog destroyed our entire defense industry...
  88. -1
    1 October 2022 20: 54
    To do it - to whom and on what? If the USSR somehow “pulled” the defense industry on a par with the West, then in Russia during the period of democracy not only did they not develop it, but they simply destroyed what it had. I don’t know if it’s possible to recreate everything without the genius of Stalin and Stalin’s methods? At least 8 months of the SVO have shown that the current government is, to put it mildly, incompetent.
  89. 0
    2 October 2022 11: 09
    The war is won by infantry and tanks + reconnaissance (UAV). You can fire high-precision weapons anywhere and cause damage, but until infantry supported by tanks occupy the territory, nothing will happen. This is what we see now.
  90. +1
    4 October 2022 11: 12
    Listen, colleagues, it is very obvious and predictable that the enemy can obtain even the latest, but widely used weapons!
    This will happen - sooner or later. Just like Amer’s samples come to us. Also, let’s remember the well-known examples of the Second World War - German tanks, airplanes...
    The designers must have foreseen, and I believe they did. So there is nothing “deadly” about this.
    Surely there are solutions that will allow you to continue to effectively use this so-called. "captured weapon".
    Of course, this does not preclude continuing to improve existing weapons and develop new ones!
  91. 0
    4 October 2022 11: 20
    There is nothing surprising. Rostec Chemizov, Ministry of Trade and Trade Manturov, and many others like them, have brought the state of industry into such a disastrous state that we cannot produce electronics even milking military equipment. Can the President finally ask the result from at least someone?? Or this is not possible because these are all his friends and proteges. Now the innocent ones are dying
  92. +1
    5 October 2022 20: 08
    The author forgot to mention that American missiles and F-35 aircraft are also on the table of Russian specialists and the Americans also need to destroy their equipment, since it has already become known to us! And recently, according to American experts, it became known that almost 95% of US equipment contains electronics from China! And after checking their secret F-35 aircraft, it turned out that it contains more than 50% of electronic components from China! America's electronic hardware is degrading and therefore it was decided to move Taiwanese electronics factories to America!
  93. 0
    6 October 2022 09: 07
    Romka, the Caliber missile does not exist, there is a missile complex, and the missiles it uses are different. You write nonsense, “this is some kind of shame”©...
  94. 0
    7 October 2022 17: 16
    I don't see anything wrong with this. What Russia wanted and needed fell into the hands of the Far Eastern Federal District. The Americans are convinced of their genius, but there are strategic weapons that the Americans do not have, and they only suspect that our army has it. Tank guns are not allowed on the battlefield, why? am
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  96. 0
    8 October 2022 16: 50
    It’s no secret that the Russian Federation does not have its own electronics. They are doing something for the defense industry, but it is minimal. The main supplier of electronics is China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore. The USSR had its own radio industry.
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