Authorities of Zaporizhia: Subdivisions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine located in the region will become occupiers after the referendum

Kyiv must withdraw troops from the territory of the Zaporozhye region. Otherwise, the subdivisions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine located in the region will automatically become occupiers after the referendum.

Such a statement to the agency RIA News made a member of the main council of Zaporozhye Vladimir Rogov.

At the same time, he added that any actions of the Ukrainian military in the region will be considered aggression against the Russian Federation, because with a high degree of probability the region will become its subject.

Ukrainian troops will be perceived as occupiers, and any of their actions as aggression against Russia

Rogov said.

Earlier, he said that a referendum on joining Russia would be held in 73 percent of the region, which is currently controlled by allied forces. The event is scheduled for the period from 23 to 27 September. Voting of the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics, as well as the Kherson region, is scheduled for the same dates. This initiative originally belonged to the Civic Chambers of the Republics of Donbass, which on September 19 turned to the heads of the LPR and DPR with the idea of ​​​​immediately holding a referendum on joining Russia. A day later, a similar proposal was received from the leadership of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions.

Now one can only wonder how, over the past thirty-odd years of independence, the rulers of Ukraine were able to bring a country with a powerful economic potential to such a deplorable state with the prospect of a complete loss of statehood.

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

Ukrainian troops will be perceived as occupiers, and any of their actions as aggression against Russia

And what actions to repel aggression? Attacks on the centers, extra shots of undershot banderlogs, blackouts on the outskirts - what?

[antivirus]

The money-changers have been registered in the temple for a long time.
Wars and big politics are not a sacred temple.
Goering did not go to Magadan

[Pereira]

Another HPP? No words are taken seriously anymore. That's why the authorities keep quiet, as if they've taken Coca-Cola in their mouths.

[lis-ik]

Quote: Pereira

Another HPP? No words are taken seriously anymore. That's why the authorities keep quiet, as if they've taken Coca-Cola in their mouths.

What can they say? I remember how the president, on unbending legs, went to the podium when they accepted Crimea into the Russian Federation, they clearly didn’t want to do this, but the electorate would not understand, now they are doing everything possible to alienate regions sympathetic to Russia, but in fact Russians, from the Russian Federation. It is hard to believe that the army of the Russian Federation did not have and does not have the opportunity to decide the outcome of the operation as soon as possible, but conventions and excuses are being created that prevent this. Or you will have to conclude that everything that the amusing Minister of Defense and the media weaves to us about the unparalleled is complete crap and empty chatter.

[Silver99]

"Colonel" Arestovich, after all, said that the Russian grouping should be at least 1 million, well, it will be so by the time he leaves for Poland

[APASUS]

I think this is just the beginning. Of course, ours will take the Zaporozhye region and not only it, but Ukraine will have to be taken all, otherwise long-range American weapons will appear there and there will be no peace. It is too expensive to live like Israel and Palestine

[antivirus]

It's not even about the rf-bow under a mortal blow.
Subsidies and so on will be even more expensive.
How long will our Belarusians psychologically endure? And we saw how they surrender power in Kyiv

[RGB]

Tonight we saw how they wipe their feet on our Soldiers when they exchange Nazi killers who mocked prisoners in the basement to music for their godfather Medvedchuk! I used to be a patriot, but today my patriotism has gone to zero.

[Drotro]

Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.
But in my opinion, we Russians still remain patriots of our country, Motherland, even if we cease to be patriots of the state. No matter how they try to destroy the very concept of patriotism in us.

[alexey sidykin]

Yes, yes, yes ... we heard these words in the 80s. We are not against the Motherland, we are against Soviet power. And what it led to is also clearly visible. By the way, in February 17, exactly the same speeches were also heard.

[Roma 1977]

Somehow you need too little to change life orientations. Look at the old people who survived all the trash that was in perestroika and the Yeltsin era. I'm not talking about the veterans of the Patriotic War - they are generally flint.

[alexey sidykin]

Quote from RVA

Tonight we saw how they wipe their feet on our Soldiers when they exchange Nazi killers who mocked prisoners in the basement to music for their godfather Medvedchuk! I used to be a patriot, but today my patriotism has gone to zero.

Your words sound strange, you feel sorry for our soldiers here and here you cry about the rise of ours from captivity ... you either put on panties or take off your cross.

[KAV]

Quote: APASUS

but Ukraine will have to be taken all, otherwise long-range American weapons will appear there and there will be no peace. Living like Israel and Palestine is too expensive

I'm afraid it won't stop there. Then, in the future, we will have to fight with Poland and the Baltic limitrophes. We, just like that, will not be released from the hook of war.

[Alexander Salenko]

So since 2008 they have been invited, there are such invitations that you can’t miss, in 2014 they played the Crimean card, if there was a massacre in Crimea, I have been talking about this for a long time, they would have drawn the fleet into this matter. Then Donbass, remember the shelling of Russian territory in the 14th. So yes, we will now fight all the time.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote: APASUS

Ukraine will have to take all

So only lazy people don't talk about it anymore. The circumstances are like this.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

Life a la North Korea suits you completely.? You will walk in formation and yell, glory, you yourself understand to whom

[Roma 1977]

Life a la North Korea, only unlike it, having all the resources for development is not the worst thing that can happen in life. But life a la Ukraine No. 2, in the event of surrender - that's what would be really disgusting.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

More about resources Their presence in our version is not the development of the country They still need to be mined and processed And with this, you yourself know

[Roma 1977]

Well, something, but much more resources are mined in the Russian Federation than are needed for their own consumption. And the development of a country is when an excess of resources (including financial ones) is not withdrawn abroad, but works within the country.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

In during a 300 billion bucks where.? But getting resources and processing and implementing these are different things.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Sergey Nikiforov

In during a 300 billion bucks where.? But getting resources and processing and implementing these are different things.

Where? where? Working against the US Federal Reserve. After such a frank squeeze, many countries began to think about the safety of their gold reserves and began to get rid of the dollar both in the currency basket and in calculations, which in turn plays against mattresses.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

Who exactly and the numbers please announce

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Sergey Nikiforov

Who exactly and the numbers please announce

Yes, even China. From the first place in the holder of American treasuries, he moved to the second, "yielding" the palm to Japan. Beijing has been dumping $1,1 billion worth of American paper on a daily basis for several months now. If earlier he had 920 trillion, then today it is already somewhere around 40 billion. In settlements with Russia, up to XNUMX% of payments are made in national currencies.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

Until 30, do not distort GDP said And that oil with a discount of up to 25% should not be taken, then they will be resold

[Roma 1977]

Recycling resources without capital is problematic. And the capital was exported to the "developed countries" on a gigantic scale. But if the capital is not exported ...

[kin]

These are not the resources of the people, but of the state, i.e. ruling class. Where the money is sent from them, probably, it is not necessary to explain. Yesterday they went to the West, today they go to the East. Accordingly, bank accounts, yachts, villas will migrate to the East. And for believers, noodles are more authentic, prices, retirement age are higher, an electronic concentration camp and many other goodies.

[alexey sidykin]

What's wrong with Europe? All according to the decision of Washington and Brussels ... a step to the right, a step to the left, shot.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

Long lived there.? Or did you watch TV?

[alexey sidykin]

Why TV ... just read or listen to local news. The Internet has not been cancelled. But you definitely don’t know anything about Europe, since you still look at them through rose-colored glasses.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

I have a sister who lives in Italy, my wife has a sister in Poland, and we spent the whole summer visiting them. Believe me. Studied without pink glasses

[alexey sidykin]

Well, this is not an indicator ... even the Europeans themselves manage to live their whole lives in rose-colored glasses.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

Well, you only have to work for Solovyov. They make candy out of shit.

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: Sergey Nikiforov

Well, you only have to work for Solovyov. They make candy out of shit.

In winter we will see where what ...

[Machito]

Quote: APASUS

I think this is just the beginning. Of course, ours will take the Zaporozhye region and not only it, but Ukraine will have to be taken all, otherwise long-range American weapons will appear there and there will be no peace. It is too expensive to live like Israel and Palestine

What about Tribaltica? And Moldova? And Poland? It’s easier with Poland: there are no brothers there, you can immediately drive them into the Stone Age with carpet bombing.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

And how about NATO, these are all members of NATO Or a vigorous cudgel.? Or reserve your place in paradise..?

[Machito]

Quote: Sergey Nikiforov

And how about NATO, these are all members of NATO Or a vigorous cudgel.? Or reserve your place in paradise..?

Hitler's European Union also had chemical weapons, but Hitler never used them.

[Sergey Nikiforov]

But conventional weapons and nothing. There are many times more planes and cruise missiles

[tralflot1832]

APASUS. I like the reaction of the West: We don’t recognize them, referendums are not legal. And then, what’s the point of our non-recognition. Putin still has a joker up his sleeve, except for the referendum. I don’t pay attention to all the propellers. We don’t know much.

[pyagomail.com]

Ukrainian troops will be perceived as occupiers, and any of their actions as aggression against Russia

This is how aggression against Russia periodically goes on: they shell the Belgorod, Kursk regions, Crimea - they should respond more actively, bomb the infrastructure. And Medvedchuk was exchanged - won't they prepare him for the future head of the rest of Ukraine?

[BMP-2]

The time when Medvedchuk could have been the head of Ukraine is irretrievably lost. Now it will be one of the worst options.

[belovvladimir]

Now one can only wonder how, over the past thirty-odd years of independence, the rulers of Ukraine were able to bring a country with a powerful economic potential to such a deplorable state with the prospect of a complete loss of statehood.

When the bloody shepherd Turchinov comes to power, then the confectioner Poroshenko, and the statehood of the country is closed by Clown Ze, then there is nothing to be surprised at, from the bloody Shepherd to the clown, the state has slipped into external control with the opportunity to try on lace panties for gay parades on dating west, only one cookie V. Nuland, miraculously influenced the minds of the Ukrainian people, bringing the country to poverty and devastation!

[Kaufman]

Well, how to explain the deplorability of their economy? Factories are working, the army is strong and motivated. Roads and bridges are being built. Grain is grown.

[Alexander Salenko]

Let me try. A little over a year ago, my mother was in Kyiv and drove past Antonov Design Bureau, the lights were off. BAZ is a factory that makes buses, and they ride around the Crimea, covered themselves with a copper basin, and Kraz went there. This is what. which gives a lot of work, good drinks were produced by the Rosinka company, and where is it?
If factories are working, then why so many gasters, don’t you think that there is some kind of discrepancy here? And with agriculture, well, they planted grain, well, but sugar beet, for example, in Volyn it was processed by two plants, one was reground for sugar cane, where the sugar production technology is different. It is only profitable for individual peasants to grow a beetroot for their own cattle, and this is feudalism without 5 minutes.
What kind of roads do they build, did you eat on these roads? I don’t recommend it, you’ll beat your ass despite the suspension. Regarding the strength of the army, where did it show its strength? For 7 months, with only one counterattack, but for now she shows her inability to defeat an enemy that is a multiple of the smaller one.

[Kaufman]

And what is someone else's to count and list. Such enterprises themselves have enough

[Alexander Salenko]

Yes, that's enough, I only see in the Crimea that Kerch is building two UDCs and has often taken a commission to Crimean factories to get acquainted with the capacities. I am not a jingoistic patriot, but unlike you, I see the difference between Russia and Ukraine.

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: kaufman

Well, how to explain the deplorability of their economy? Factories are working, the army is strong and motivated. Roads and bridges are being built. Grain is grown.

Quote: kaufman

Grain is grown.

And who grows it... Western companies? The land was sold there a long time ago.

[belovvladimir]

kaufman:
And many factories work there at all, or many were built during their independence, I was in Ukraine, I saw everything with my own eyes, and not from a computer sitting on the couch!
Your comment indicates your commitment to Western values

[Kaufman]

And you are not poking around with your finger in a Western phone, write comments?

[belovvladimir]

In Japanese, and Japan doesn't seem to be in the west, Sony.

[kin]

The operating system is Japanese, the processor is also Japanese? Here's a link, it's old, but it doesn't change anything
https://www.rospisatel.ru/predprijatija.htm
Necha blame the mirror, if the face is crooked.

[Alexander Salenko]

And Kuchma was better? Remind him that he is listed as the author, hardly wrote himself, of the book "Ukraine is not Russia"? It was he who raised all these Kolomoiskys, Pinchuks, Akhmetovs and others like them. Some of his steps, of course, looked positive in the eyes of the people, for example, there was no default, but rather a very successful monetary reform, banditry was quickly suppressed, but bandits without a uniform were replaced by bandits in uniform and with the latter it was much harder, they took the same amount but not they didn’t do shit in return, they just milked.
I am not romanticizing the bandit times, but talking about Ukraine in general. So the bandits took off your hair, well, for example, you have a cafe, they paid for tea with coffee. That's it, I paid and I don't owe anything.
If the car, for example, took you to a wedding or a funeral, and often it was both. Your car has been working for three days without taxes, but with the cops you can only row money and the level of corruption was such that when the Russian authorities entered the Crimea, they were blown away: what, was it possible?
And it is customary for us to scold Russian corruption - you have not seen Ukraine.

[hector]

Quote: belovvladimir

Now one can only wonder how, over the past thirty-odd years of independence, the rulers of Ukraine were able to bring a country with a powerful economic potential to such a deplorable state with the prospect of a complete loss of statehood.

In any country, the existing power is a concentrated reflection of the state of the entire society, mental, psychological, moral, it can never exist separately from society, without its approval and support to varying degrees. If society psychologically does not accept a particular power, it will not be able to exist for a long time.

[flicker]

A tale of how sharovarniks blew their country.

[AAC]

I'm getting confused in politics. I ask for an explanation team. What happens if Ukraine suddenly turns out to be an aggressor on its former territory? They will get scared and leave the territory or they will suddenly be condemned by everyone. I don’t understand at all why this should be done before the Victory. What a nebulous plan. Or maybe if they agree on peace, then where they managed to hold a referendum, it will remain with us. And where the Poles will have time to spend with them. So?

[salad]

It’s not a brigade that is needed here, but a whole council on issues that have arisen

[TIR]

It would be better if the article wrote in detail what and how much to take with you from a civilian if you leave for mobilization. I've already thought about it and digested it all myself. Friends and acquaintances are also at a low start. They began to call some to the military registration and enlistment offices. The only hope is that we will fight according to the VUS, and not in the infantry. Fuel oil seems to be already in the military registration and enlistment offices. Will be sent to training units soon

[AAC]

First aid kit and active headphones. The rest will be given out.

[TIR]

I think it's better to buy shoes yourself. Headphones would be nice to have

[decimalegio]

Excuse me, but can I ask you, what would you bring??

[akropin]

No one will explain anything. In my opinion, the command was given to troll the Ukrainians to the maximum in order to cause their reciprocal psychosis and irrational actions.

[TIR]

What's the trolling. I'm really talking about already military enlistment offices are calling reservists

[decimalegio]

And how does mobilization work in Russia??? In Italy, as long as there was compulsory military service, at the end of military service, you delivered documents to the municipality where you lived. Each municipality had a list of reservists. In the event of mobilization, and after all, many years could have passed since you were recognized as fit for military service, you had to be again
subjected to examination. At 18/20 you are a person, at 35/40 you can be a different person (vision problems, hypertension, injuries, accidents, etc.) who can no longer serve in the army.

[Machito]

Quote: Decimalegio

And how does mobilization work in Russia??? In Italy, as long as there was compulsory military service, at the end of military service, you delivered documents to the municipality where you lived. Each municipality had a list of reservists. In the event of mobilization, and after all, many years could have passed since you were recognized as fit for military service, you had to be again
subjected to examination. At 18/20 you are a person, at 35/40 you can be a different person (vision problems, hypertension, injuries, accidents, etc.) who can no longer serve in the army.

In Russia, mobilization takes place in much the same way. They will mobilize 1-2-3 million soldiers and kill every single Eurofascist in Ukraine. Whoever is not killed will dig a tunnel to Sakhalin or a gas pipeline to China.

[decimalegio]

Thanks for the answer. But so far there are only 300 of them. So you have already made sure that there will be few of them???

[odometer]

Here she is, such a multi-way Checkmate, NATO and the USA...

[Petr_Koldunov]

The next week promises to be hot and dangerous. I would like to wish our fighters courage and success in ensuring the safety of holding referendums and in protecting (especially the southern territories) the liberated lands from Nazi attempts to change the situation!

[tlauicol]

it would be fun if the western regions of Wu wanted to hold their own referendum in hot pursuit. Let's say about joining Poland. The Poles sleep and see it. Westerners will avoid military action on their territory. An interesting option could be

[Alexander Salenko]

They know the Poles very well and therefore will sooner negotiate with us. Yes, through gritted teeth, but believe me, they know perfectly well who the Poles are. One driver of Western origin told me how he drove cars from Germany through Poland. The Polish cop doesn’t give a damn, if you’re coming from Germany, he’ll even take off his cap, but there, he’ll shake everything to the last.

[Horon]

Apparently, they hoped for such an outcome at the beginning of their own, to let people decide on a choice, then they called on everyone to support theirs. Now the choice will be very bad.

[tlauicol]

there is always a choice. Westerners can compare by looking at the rest of the country. Poles are happy

[Horon]

It all depends on who will now decide on the issues of the referendum. There is a suspicion that the question: "Do you want to remain part of Ukraine" or "Do you want to become an independent state" will not be put down. As for the Polish affiliation, it has not yet been decided. The Hungarians can get their people along with the territories, but the Romanians and Poles would be happy, but the owner does not order. And the owner of Russia’s rebellion needs to be curbed somehow, because then the entire system of world domination will crumble and for this he is ready to feed the god of war not only Ukraine, Poland or the Baltic states, but also Germany, France and even Britain for one. But if Britain is already a completely bad option, then Ukraine and Poland are those pawns that can be sacrificed quite painlessly.

[Dedok]

Authorities of Zaporizhia: Subdivisions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine located in the region will become occupiers after the referendum

Zaporozhye?
and we are already in Zaporozhye?
Or should everyone reading this article forget geography?
Author, do not engage in "substitution of concepts", I understand that this is very effective, but not - here!
The CAA of the Zaporozhye region is not located in Zaporozhye.
when we go there, then we will write like that.

[Magog_]

in 73 percent of the region

The referendum is held not from the percentage of the territory, but from the inhabitants of the region. Where are our "lawyers" looking in power? The city of Zaporozhye, thus, can become a kind of "Kosovo" within the "Melitopol region" ... Is this legal insanity or idiocy?

[solar]

The referendum is held not from the percentage of the territory, but from the inhabitants of the region.

This makes it awkward. 1[636] people live in the Zaporozhye region. Of these, in Zaporozhye and its immediate environs - "The population of the agglomeration
1 people".
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Запорожье
that is, the vast majority of residents of the Zaporozhye region will not participate in the referendum in principle.

[decimalegio]

But that's not a big problem, from what little I've learned from being here, I must say that you Russians are not that different from us Italians. In short, the law leans towards random needs and then forces the law to find a pun that avoids it. We are all a great country.

[Magog_]

you Russians are not so different from us Italians

Dear Italian, have you heard of the "Etruscans"? Those who are considered Italians today cannot vouch for their ethnic purity, like many other peoples of Europe and the world, including the most extreme Russophobic elite. A little surprising.

[decimalegio]

I spoke about evolutionary convergence from a cultural and legal point of view. I didn't want to fall into racial or eugenic theories. But since you brought me to this area, if you are looking for genetic purity in yourself, I recommend doing a DNA test for authenticity, and do not be surprised if you find Mongolian origin in your and perhaps even in their horses. Even if your answer is given, a donkey is more likely.

[Machito]

Quote: Decimalegio

I spoke about evolutionary convergence from a cultural and legal point of view. I didn't want to fall into racial or eugenic theories. But since you brought me to this area, if you are looking for genetic purity in yourself, I recommend doing a DNA test for authenticity, and do not be surprised if you find Mongolian origin in your and perhaps even in their horses. Even if your answer is given, a donkey is more likely.

Just don’t laugh, but in Russia there are scientists or pseudo-scientists who believe that the Etruscans mean Russian (this is Russian). According to their works, the Russians created the entire Western European culture. This is not to mention the Wends.

[Magog_]

Scientist or pseudoscientist? Who defines it? Such "teeth"

[Magog_]

discover Mongolian origin

You won’t be surprised, but I can’t vouch for the Mongols, especially since they called themselves differently not so long ago ...

[decimalegio]

In fact, I don't understand anything, the referendum should only apply to territories held by the Russians. But if the front expands, then the referendum will be valid for those who did not vote???? or do you have to do it every few kilometers??? Perhaps the referendum involves the stabilization of the front???? Finally, what is changing for the purposes of war??? Belgorod was hit so it will change Kherson, Donetsk or Luhansk????

[Machito]

The results of the referendum held in part of the Zaporozhye region will apply to the entire region, and no one is interested in the opinion of the inhabitants of the city of Zaporozhye on this matter.
How was the referendum in Kosovo? How was the referendum on joining the GDR to the FRG? Answer: no way. Nobody cares about the opinion of the people. The United States and the European Union trampled on international law long ago, and now only the right of the strong remains. Law of the jungle. Russians absolutely do not care about the opinion of the entire planet about the legality and results of referendums. Who does not agree can declare us a nuclear war.
The referendums themselves are held in order to comply with the formalities before the UN Charter. Not before the UN, but before the UN Charter. Russia is not interested in the opinion of the UN. Nobody in Russia doubts the results of the referendums. However, we were all eyewitnesses to how the results of the US elections were rigged, which was publicly confirmed by the then US President Donald Trump.

[decimalegio]

Respected opinion, however, if you already know the result of the referendums, if you know that, given the allusion to the elections, which you think are rigged, the United States, that these referendums are the same, if they are just a bureaucratic procedure to deal with, I ask you : why do them???????
It would be better if they gathered balls and said: "I took these areas by force and I hold them" ""

[Machito]

Quote: Decimalegio

Respected opinion, however, if you already know the result of the referendums, if you know that, given the allusion to the elections, which you think are rigged, the United States, that these referendums are the same, if they are just a bureaucratic procedure to deal with, I ask you : why do them???????
It would be better if they gathered balls and said: "I took these areas by force and I hold them" ""

All this is done to comply with the UN Charter, international laws and legitimacy. Putin does everything according to the law. The US violates all international laws and its own laws.
For example, President Donald Trump illegally kept classified documents at his private residence, and President Joe Biden illegally read those documents, violating investigative laws. The USA is a country of lawlessness.

[Magog_]

All this is done for ... legitimacy

For the Zaporozhye region, this "legitimacy" will not work. Even from the point of 1991, when a referendum was held in the Donbass and Crimea with exactly the same questions, there is nothing to show in this case. If we proceed from Putin's "at least something", then these clumsy attempts can be understood.

[solar]

According to international laws, nations (that is, all residents of the state) have the right to self-determination. That is, such decisions are made at the country level. This may be a national referendum or other mechanism at the level of the state. Individual territories may have either only the right of an advisory vote, or if they have been delegated the right of self-determination specially from the state level. No one recognizes the results of the referendums of individual territories. And even more so, they are not recognized in conditions where the territory is controlled by foreign troops (if they do not have a UN mandate for this).

[Magog_]

on the legality and results of referendums

The legality of a referendum may be in question if it is held, for example, in the entrance of a residential building, but is declared as a microdistrict referendum - even if the procedure for holding it and counting votes is as transparent and honest as possible. Why not say that the event is in the nature of a public opinion poll in the most transparent and verifiable way? It is one thing when passers-by are questioned on the street without protocols and personal signatures of the respondents - another thing: a referendum.

[Machito]

Quote: Magog_

on the legality and results of referendums

The legality of a referendum may be in question if it is held, for example, in the entrance of a residential building, but is declared as a microdistrict referendum - even if the procedure for holding it and counting votes is as transparent and honest as possible. Why not say that the event is in the nature of a public opinion poll in the most transparent and verifiable way? It is one thing when passers-by are questioned on the street without protocols and personal signatures of the respondents - another thing: a referendum.

Tell the Serbs in Kosovo about the legality of referendums. Better on the internet. You will be more whole.

[Magog_]

Yes, you are inadequate, however. Read my post more carefully.

[Horon]

Oh come on about the legality to worry! If we take it in its absolute meaning, then the presidential elections in Ukraine can also be considered illegitimate, since participation in them was not ensured throughout Ukraine and for some reason this does not bother you, but here, in this madhouse, they suddenly began to recall the legality of referendums . Yes, legality and transparency will be violated, and not only in terms of territorial participation, but also the time frame, the lack of security conditions for holding a referendum, and there is still a very large list, and you are only concerned with the territorial side!
If you just decide to "open your eyes" to others, and be smart, then to your health - you can speculate about legal collisions.

[Magog_]

"open your eyes"

Who are you addressing this to? The organization of the site and your text do not allow you to determine the opponent or the addressee of the remark. For a long time I almost always make a small link-quote from the text of the one to whom I address my message. Take it as a rule.

[Horon]

Is this yours?

The legality of the referendum may be in question, if one is held, for example, in the entrance of a residential building, but is declared as a referendum of the microdistrict - even if the procedure for holding it and counting votes is as transparent and honest as possible. Why not say that the event is in the nature of a public opinion poll in the most transparent and verifiable way? It is one thing when passers-by are questioned on the street without protocols and personal signatures of the respondents - another thing: a referendum.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Oh come on about the legality to worry!

[Magog_]

My ! Is it really convenient to designate your remarks like that? And it is clear in whose garden a pebble.
Here, about the legality of "solar" spoke out, see a little lower on the branch. It turns out that legality must be approved, or rejected, by the "International Court of the United Nations"! Therefore, the Serbs need to be bombed without hesitation in anything, and the Donbass - the region of "quilted jackets and separatists" ... from the point of view of "international law" or "rules" - whatever these judges have at hand - can be wetted with any caliber. "And who are the judges?... Judgments are drawn from the forgotten newspapers of the times of the Ochakovskys and the conquest of the Crimea."

[Horon]

Here, about the legality of "solar" spoke out, see a little lower on the branch.

Ok, so I lost the thread of your communication with him. It would be in the late 80s and early 90s and poke his nose as they held referendums on the destruction of the USSR. People answered some questions, and interpreted them into others to the applause of fighters for "human rights" and "legality."

[solar]

How was the referendum on joining the GDR to the FRG? Answer: no way. Nobody cares about the opinion of the people.

You are right in this case. The GDR and the FRG have been occupied territories since 1945 and referendums on military-political issues were banned there.
The unification of Germany took place in accordance with the decision of the victorious powers, an agreement was concluded on this - the Treaty on the final settlement with respect to Germany, which was signed by the USSR, the USA, England and France (plus representatives of the GDR and the FRG).

How was the referendum in Kosovo?

The Kosovo independence referendum was held in 1991.
About 99% of those who voted with a turnout of 87% were in favor of independence.
In order to hold a referendum, a turnout of at least 66,7% was required, and at least 50% in support of independence.

[Magog_]

Referendum ... Kosovo was held back in 1991

If this is so, then what outrages the Western public in the referendums of Crimea and Donbass in 2014, which, by and large, were also not necessary, since in the same period (1991) similar questions were raised before the population of these regions? Double standards or lack thereof? What then is the "bazaar"?

[solar]

Nobody, except Albania, recognized the referendum in Kosovo, even taking into account the fact that it was absolutely peaceful. So no double standards.
The recognition of Kosovo's independence came about for other reasons than as a result of a referendum.

[Magog_]

for other reasons

Then there may be "other reasons" with the regions of Ukraine... And let's not bother with the legality of the Zaporozhye/Melitopol referendum! The question is closed ?

[solar]

"Another reason" in the case of Kosovo is confirmed by the decision of the International Court of Justice, to which Serbia applied through the UN General Assembly.
If there is a decision of the International Court of Justice, a body specially authorized for that, adopted at the request of Ukraine, then it will be possible to talk about legality, you are right.

[Magog_]

about legitimacy, you are right

This is an endless journey through Minsk-3, etc., until no one is left alive in the Donbass ... But the law (mythical) in some kind of "international law" will be fulfilled. The UN has two provisions that contradict each other: the right of nations to self-determination, and the territorial integrity of the state. The concept of "coup d'état" does not seem to exist. All states of the world appeared as a result of Troubles and separatism. See 17th century history. "Mezhdunarodny sud" will not deal with this issue if Russia files its claim as the legal successor of the Russian Empire = world Empire? It's time to cancel all states and return to the origins of civilization!!!

[solar]

The UN has two provisions that contradict each other: the right of nations to self-determination, and the territorial integrity of the state.

There is no contradiction, the nation is all the inhabitants of the state as a whole, and they have the right to self-determination in one form or another - either directly through a referendum, or through their chosen representatives.

See 17th century history.

Modern international rules and laws on this matter were formed in the second half of the 20th century. That's where you come from. And in history in past centuries, anything happened.

[Magog_]

this is all the inhabitants of the state as a whole

Truth ? How interesting it is with you: in one state, one nation and on one territory ... So what then is "self-determining"?

[solar]

That's how it's arranged. And the union of these nations is precisely called the "Organization of the United nations- UN.

So what then is "self-determined"?

What the nation considers necessary is to live together or separate, as the Czechs did with the Slovaks, for example. Or live completely independently or transfer part of their powers to any organization or even to another state, such as, for example, members of the European Union. Or completely abandon independence by joining another state. Or unite with another state, as, for example, Tanganyika and Zanzibar became the United Republic of Tanzania. Or transfer the power of self-determination of any part of the country due to some special circumstances, such as Scotland as part of the UK.
But in any case, all these decisions, including the decision to transfer part of the powers, are made only by the nation as a whole in accordance with established procedures.

[Magog_]

What the nation sees fit

I, with my average brains, apparently, cannot reach your heights of understanding "self-determination" ...

[solar]

These are not mine, these are generally accepted. A country is the common property of all who live in it.

[kin]

Is it joint? Is this a new form of ownership or what?

[16112014nk]

22 years of multi-moves and drawing "red lines", for the transition of which there were no real consequences, but only "concern" no one is now convinced. He would learn from Israel how to respond to threats against Russia. Otherwise, even on the territory of Russia there are victims among the civilian population. And what's the answer???

[Ludmila Myshkina]

and who said that Ukrainians will be afraid after the referendums and will be removed right up to Kyiv. nothing prevented them from shelling the Belgorod, Kursk regions. to go on a rampage. now drg will increase. partisans will appear. 20% who is this? already open dissidents

[Dkuznecov]

So I imagine - at the formation of a lieutenant or a major, he says to the APU-shniks:
so, guys, now we are not locals, but invaders.
Therefore, we can rob and rape in every possible way.
We have nothing more to lose, everything is gone.

A strong move, as for me, it was necessary to immediately enter from such trump cards
in February.

[Mr. One Two]

I’m reading here, signed from the very beginning, but now I don’t understand where the opinion of a person is, and where is the cisco bot. Who believes in your country, people, be strong, do not write thoughts that you have not slept with.

[former soldier]

Quote: Sergey Nikiforov

They still need to be mined and processed. And with this, you yourself know

What do we know? And what do you know?
"Gods don't burn pots."