Military Review

What they say across the ocean about the T-90M tank that fell into Ukrainian hands

263
What they say across the ocean about the T-90M tank that fell into Ukrainian hands

Roman Skomorokhov in his angry article mentioned that soon we will be able to read the opinion of Americans like Kyle Mizokami or Tyler Rogoway regarding our newest tank. And he is absolutely right. They keep their finger on the pulse and respond very quickly.


For example, an article about a tank that fell into Ukrainian hands appeared on September 19, 2022. True, it does not tell how and where this happened, there are practically no photos, the advantages and disadvantages are not understood - all this will be later and under the heading of secrecy. But, I think, many will be interested even in what they write now.

“A completely intact copy of the Russian T-90M tank was captured by Ukrainian forces, and this is apparently the first time that a first-class combat vehicle has fallen into their hands. Possession of such an advanced tank is yet another stroke of luck for Ukraine and its NATO allies in a long chain of unexpected finds (here is a link to the discovery of the wreckage of a Su-30SM along with a RTU518-PSM container). There is a good chance that the captured T-90M, also known as Proryv-3, will eventually fall into the hands of NATO allies.

In social networks, including the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, numerous photos of the outside and inside of the tank have been published (there is a link to the YouTube page, but only numerous comments are opened). The Ukrainian Defense Ministry stated that the tank was found in the Kharkov region in excellent condition.

There are suggestions that the tank crew of three simply abandoned the combat vehicle where it was found after it lost its track. On one of the images of the stern of the tank, it is clearly seen that the caterpillar is missing from the port side. One of the later videos shows a Ukrainian tank towing this T-90M, indicating that it has lost its mobility.

A track is usually lost when it slips off the track roller, sprocket and tensioner, which can happen on particularly difficult terrain, inadequate maintenance, or simply poor driving technique. Depending on the severity of the incident, reinstalling a track can be a complex process, and leaving a tank in such circumstances is not uncommon.

What is surprising is that the crew apparently made no attempt to destroy the machine, or at least the most important equipment.


M1A1 drops caterpillar

After all, the tank in question is one of the most modern in the Russian arsenal and has so far been very rare in combat operations in Ukraine. This example is no doubt in excellent condition compared to the one previously reported as destroyed by enemy fire in the northeast of the Kharkiv region (link).

Prior to this, at least one T-90M was noted to have seen combat in the same area in April, when Russia redoubled its efforts to expand its control over Donbas territory. In that case, a hastily camouflaged tank appeared in a video published by the National Guard.

As we have already discussed, the T-90M is the most technically advanced and combat-ready tank that has reached the status of full combat readiness. The next-generation tank T-14 "Armata" is not yet used in advanced units and is available only in very modest numbers. He has not yet appeared in hostilities in Ukraine.

The first serial T-90Ms began to be delivered to the 2nd Guards Taman Motorized Rifle Division in the spring of 2020. By the beginning of hostilities in Ukraine, the number of these tanks, presumably, did not exceed 100 pieces.

While the still untested T-14 is a revolutionary design, the T-90M shows more of an evolutionary approach, building on the design of the T-90, which was first introduced in the late 1990s and was in turn a further development of the T-72. . In this sense, it can be compared rather with the T-80UM2, an experimental upgrade of the T-80, which seems to have had only one prototype and was also lost in the fighting in Ukraine.

Among the features of the T-90M is an improved 125-mm 2A46M smoothbore gun in a modernized turret. This is complemented by the presence of a remote-controlled 7,62 machine gun on the turret. Photographs of the interior show the presence of interesting details of the sighting system, which is believed to be of the PNM-T designation.

The PNM-T sight is interesting because it is the result of a broad effort to reduce the dependence of the Russian military-industrial complex on Western technology. This initiative gained momentum after the events in Crimea in 2014 and has become even more important since then, as new measures make it even more difficult for Russia to obtain Western high-tech components. We have already reported on this problem, and in particular, it affected the production of tanks.

Introduced in the period 2018-2019, the PNM-T is positioned as an entirely Russian system, in contrast to the previous Sosna-U, which relied to some extent on components from the French company Thales. It was Sosna-U that was previously installed on the T-90M.

The T-90M is also better protected than its predecessors, with improved armor and countermeasure systems. This includes an integrated "Relic" system designed to protect against HEAT rounds and minimize the impact of armor-piercing feathered sabot rounds (APFSDS).


At the same time, the captured copy is equipped with a characteristic coating with the “Cape” index, which should absorb radar radiation. This is yet another step to improve protection against controlled weapons, which reduces the thermal, infrared and radar radiation of the machine. "Cape" is designed both to protect vehicles and to camouflage field fortifications, ammunition depots and other objects. All in all, this T-90M can provide some very interesting insights into the capabilities of this very modern tank and its subsystems.

Ukraine has successfully used captured or abandoned Russian equipment in the past. However, since so far only one T-90M has been captured in working condition, it will most likely not be used in a combat situation, but will be analyzed and serve as a source of intelligence.

It will add to the diverse collection of military vehicles and high-end equipment that fell into the hands of Ukrainians, often in good condition. Last week we talked about the Taran-M electronic intelligence vehicle, which joined the captured equipment, including part of the Krasukha-4 electronic warfare complex.

The targeting system of the PNM-T in particular may be of significant interest, revealing much about the capabilities of this tank and others with similar equipment, the ability to hit targets in various conditions, and how it works in the face of opposition.

It will also be very valuable to see how the Russian industry has solved the problem of replacing Western high-tech components, as well as the results of similar efforts to "russify" the optoelectronic devices of fighter jets.

Since advances in armored vehicles are characterized to a greater extent by competition in firepower, protection and mobility, it seems that the T-90M will be of great interest, both for Ukraine, and for the United States and Western countries.

It is currently unclear to what extent Ukraine shares intelligence information with the United States and other partners, although there appear to be channels through which such information is shared. It is very likely that even samples of captured Russian equipment are being transferred to the United States. After all, there is still a pre-war precedent for the transfer by Ukraine to the United States of equipment of Russian-Soviet origin for use in the foreign materiel exploitation (FME) program.

The fact that Russia uses a very wide range of military vehicles in military operations is no longer surprising. Examples range from the latest types that have just entered service to Cold War tanks that have long since been replaced by more advanced designs. However, as long as the vehicles are in the hands of the Ukrainians in such good condition as this T-90M, they will continue to provide important clues about the capabilities and shortcomings of the equipment of the Russian military.”

Here is such a история.
Author:
263 comments
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 05: 27
    +87
    Destruction of equipment that cannot be removed and which can become a trophy of the enemy - these are the basics! And this is another shame for the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, because for sure there was no corresponding order for the entire time of the NWO (like not a war, but if there was a war, then of course), and the military personnel are simply afraid of punishment.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. BARKAS
      BARKAS 23 September 2022 05: 38
      +18
      because for sure there was no corresponding order for the entire time of the NWO (such as not a war, but if there was a war, then of course), and the military personnel are simply afraid of punishment.

      I, too, am leaning towards this option, all the more such cases were told by a familiar tanker, by the way, from this very Taman division.
      1. Pushkar
        Pushkar 23 September 2022 09: 22
        -2
        Quote: BARKAS
        this same Taman division.

        Do you mean Kantemirovskaya?
        1. kulemin0025gmail.com
          kulemin0025gmail.com 23 September 2022 10: 46
          +8
          The article refers to the Taman division. In the tamanka (served 83-85) there was a tank regiment, part 61616. True, the tanks were T-64s, but T-80s appeared under demobilization. In the 90s, I really heard that part was disbanded or transferred. And in the Taman division there was a tank battalion (technical equipment from the Second World War, including German) and a cavalry regiment. Basically, they were used in filming movies.
    3. BSD Fan
      BSD Fan 23 September 2022 06: 33
      +24
      Is it just guides? And those inmates in the warm barracks of Tamanskaya, are not guilty in any way? In the Second World War, execution would have been due for takra, now I think they will receive orders "for successful regrouping."
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 23 September 2022 08: 24
        +39
        And those inmates in the warm barracks of Tamanskaya, are not guilty in any way?
        In the court division, they are faithful to the traditions of 30 years ago - you are always welcome to shoot the parliament, and to fight - only if you feel like it.
        1. Pushkar
          Pushkar 23 September 2022 09: 24
          +6
          Quote: Aviator_
          shoot parliament

          Neither in this, nor in the latter case, the Taman division had anything to do with it.
          1. bk316
            bk316 23 September 2022 11: 37
            +4
            Neither in this, nor in the latter case, the Taman division had anything to do with it.

            And who from the bridge on the white house from the tanks smacked?
            Everyone was sure that the Tamans ....
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 23 September 2022 16: 58
              +15
              Everyone was sure that the Tamans ....
              It was the Tamanians, as many as 4 crews of the T-72 had ardent Yeltsinoids. The rest sat quietly and waited to see who would take it.
              1. bk316
                bk316 23 September 2022 17: 45
                +6
                Here I am about the same.
                I saw them with my own eyes not on TV.
                They also had a kshmka hanging out under the bridge.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 23 September 2022 17: 52
                  +2
                  One of them, it seems, Captain Rudoy, ​​was captured by the Chechens in the fall of 1994, when Pasha-Mercedes was going to take Grozny with two regiments. There was a photo in Anpilov's Lightning.
              2. vasily chobitok
                vasily chobitok 23 September 2022 22: 25
                +5
                Actually, these were the T-80UD of the Kantemirovskaya division
              3. Usher
                Usher 24 September 2022 20: 34
                0
                Quote: Aviator_
                It was the Tamanians, as many as 4 crews of the T-72 had ardent Yeltsinoids. The rest sat quietly and waited to see who would take it.

                It seems like the T-80s fired, didn't they?
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 24 September 2022 21: 11
                  0
                  The fact is that the Tamans. They wrote about the T-72 at the same time, I myself am not Copenhagen in them (tanks).
                  1. Usher
                    Usher 24 September 2022 21: 38
                    0
                    Well, by the looks of it, you can't confuse them. Even if there is an error in the source, then you cannot trust the source, this author does not even understand what he is writing. These need to be sent far and deep.
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 24 September 2022 21: 50
                      0
                      Well, by the looks of it, you can't confuse them.
                      Can you immediately distinguish the MiG-15 from the MiG-17 in appearance? Or MiG-21F from MiG21bis?
                      1. Usher
                        Usher 27 September 2022 15: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        Well, by the looks of it, you can't confuse them.
                        Can you immediately distinguish the MiG-15 from the MiG-17 in appearance? Or MiG-21F from MiG21bis?

                        Easily. The MiG-17 has a higher sweep of the wing and plumage, an additional fence, etc. And the MiG-21F is even easier to distinguish from Bis, Bis has a fairing and another lantern.
                      2. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 27 September 2022 16: 50
                        +2
                        Bravo! Test. And why was he silent for so long, studying the materiel?
                      3. Usher
                        Usher 27 September 2022 15: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        Well, by the looks of it, you can't confuse them.
                        Can you immediately distinguish the MiG-15 from the MiG-17 in appearance? Or MiG-21F from MiG21bis?

                        Tanks T-72 and T-80 are easy to distinguish. Even from afar. The T-80 has other rollers, a remote-controlled anti-aircraft machine gun, an exhaust at the rear, a rubber skirt (dust protection), a different spare parts kit on the turret, etc.
                      4. Kurva18
                        Kurva18 15 November 2022 10: 40
                        0
                        We have tanks running around the tank track for 50 years and I myself have something to do with them, but from far away the T-72 is distinguished from the T-80 only by the sound of the engine. And all these skirts, machine guns, etc. from 100 meters.
              4. kulemin0025gmail.com
                kulemin0025gmail.com 3 October 2022 11: 09
                0
                In the Taman division, the tanks were T-64s.
            2. kulemin0025gmail.com
              kulemin0025gmail.com 23 September 2022 20: 37
              +2
              Are you sure it was the Tamans? Or maybe the Kantemirovites or the Dzhirzintsy division? And what difference does it make who carried out the order - the main thing is who gave the orders.
              1. bk316
                bk316 24 September 2022 11: 57
                +2
                or division of Jirzince

                definitely not, and as far as I remember t-72
                I know about the Dzerzhinsky people because an acquaintance of mine served there, they were given an order, but they dragged on until the evening, although they were the closest.
    4. svoroponov
      svoroponov 23 September 2022 06: 36
      +12
      There is a charter. Military property and equipment should not fall into the hands of the enemy, but should be destroyed. Perhaps the crew did not appreciate the scale of the Ukrainian offensive and, being without technical support, left the military equipment in the hope of returning quickly, the radio communication may have failed, the tankers left the equipment to reconnoitre the situation, the area is wooded, and they simply could not have time to return back, because they got into a firefight with the enemy. But what happened happened.
      1. Lepsik
        Lepsik 23 September 2022 07: 19
        +18
        There is no such charter and instructions for tankers. The radio operators had to destroy the ZAS equipment.
        1. v1tz
          v1tz 23 September 2022 09: 40
          +15
          Yes, the ZAS signalmen have such a command, according to which, in the event of a threat of compromise, we had to burn and destroy everything, there was even a stand with a crash tool ... and nothing else.
          1. Vlodek
            Vlodek 23 September 2022 17: 45
            -3
            there are many different instructions at ZAS ... including those on not being captured.
            1. militarist63
              militarist63 23 September 2022 23: 47
              +2
              many different instructions ... including not being captured
              A lot of. But about not being captured ... there was nothing like that! At the same time, I knew the governing documents for ZAS quite well (by the nature of many years of service) ...
            2. dmb91
              dmb91 24 September 2022 18: 19
              +1
              You are lying stupidly. I served 89-91. Senior mechanic ZAS.
              1. militarist63
                militarist63 26 September 2022 21: 55
                0
                You are lying stupidly. I served 89-91. Senior mechanic ZAS.
                Colleague, TLG or TLF? wink
          2. militarist63
            militarist63 23 September 2022 23: 34
            +2
            ... the ZAS signalmen have such a command, according to which, in the event of a threat of compromise, we had to burn and destroy everything ......
            Yes, it was spelled out (in the USSR Armed Forces) in "Communication Security Part 2" and in the Order of the USSR Ministry of Defense No. 0021 ...
        2. svoroponov
          svoroponov 23 September 2022 15: 55
          +6
          The combined arms charter applies to everyone, not just tankers. There are also outgoing directives from the Commander-in-Chief to the group commanders. Once again, according to these regulations, weapons and equipment should not be delivered intact to the enemy. With waste and the impossibility of conservation, all this property must be destroyed.
          1. militarist63
            militarist63 23 September 2022 23: 40
            +8
            The combined arms charter applies to everyone, not just tankers
            Already somewhere, but in the GENERAL REGULATIONS (and this, who does not know, the Disciplinary Charter, the Charter of the Internal Service, the Combat Charter and the UGIKS) NOT A WORD, NOT A FLOOR WORD ABOUT THIS IS NOTHING !!! This is me as an officer, with more than two decades of service, I declare! Vyacheslav, if you are sure of the opposite, then quote at least some article about this from the combined arms charters!
            1. yakisam
              yakisam 25 September 2022 21: 05
              -1
              I will quote you Article 348 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation from Chapter 33 "Crimes against military service", verbatim:
              "Violation of the rules for saving weapons, ammunition or items of military equipment entrusted for official use, if this negligently entailed their loss" - this is a corpus delicti.
              And - regardless of whether the "unspent" got to the enemy or not, because it does not depend on the one who violated the law. It's a pity, responsibility .... scanty, only two years in prison.
              But, I think, it’s just that for 20 years of service in the army, which calmly destroyed property in crazy quantities, you didn’t have to see cases that anyone was interested in, or am I wrong?
              There is also the Order of the Supreme High Command dated 16.08.1941. 270, which has not yet been officially canceled and which reads as follows: "On the responsibility of military personnel for surrendering and leaving weapons to the enemy." The sanction is obvious, such actions are equated with desertion.
              1. militarist63
                militarist63 26 September 2022 00: 23
                +1
                Dear Alexander! You before extensively typing me.... from
                To you article 348 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation from chapter 33 "Crimes against military service ...
                right up to
                also the Order of the Supreme High Command dated 16.08.1941. №270....
                READ MY TEXT CAREFULLY!!! IN WHICH SIDE OF THE NORMATIVE ACTS YOU LISTED TO THE GENERAL MILITARY REGULATIONS, exclusively about which I wrote to the "expert in the regulations", who said that something like that was written there on this topic ...?!!
                1. yakisam
                  yakisam 26 September 2022 11: 55
                  0
                  I apologize if I disturbed or offended you
                  I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that such actions are subject to criminal liability.
                  As for the charter, I previously pointed out paragraph 16 of the UVS, where the obligation to protect military property is indicated as the essence of military duty
                  1. militarist63
                    militarist63 26 September 2022 23: 50
                    +2
                    As for the charter, I previously pointed out paragraph 16 of the UVS, where the obligation to protect military property is indicated as the essence of military duty
                    Dear, that's about criminal liability, just don't tell me! You know, I have several years of experience in the investigation teams of the Military Prosecutor's Office ... Paragraph 16 of the UVS is the general provisions of duties! Immediately about everything, but, in fact .... - you will not sew anything to the point on this point! They will say they took care of it while they could, and then they received the command to bring down (depart), but there was no command to destroy (and in paragraph 16 there is nothing about this either ...)
                    You will accuse someone else under paragraph 16 that he did not value the Military Glory of the Armed Forces (there is also such a debt there)! wink
                    1. yakisam
                      yakisam 27 September 2022 00: 44
                      0
                      Agree
                      If you don’t blame him, then tomorrow he will bring the T-90M to the enemy with whole tracks.
                      The purpose of the law is to apply it, not to interpret it in such a way as to prove that there is no liability. This is what I think after ... years of experience in ... I will not say where. I'm being careful. Patriotic admirers of our state can and ... get to me, unpatriotic and unwilling to enjoy the mass death of the Slavs on Russian soil. So I have experience in applying these norms, and I assure you that for drowning a grenade launcher in a river, they were completely used up to a dispute for a period of 6 months.
                      Of course, I believe that the abandonment of the tank by the heroic patriotic warriors of the Russian world will not be considered as the deliberate loss of a combat vehicle, and the deliberate transfer of it (along with top secret equipment) to the enemy. Today, justice is on the side of our heroes and doubts are interpreted in their favor.
                      And for this I would probably have been shot. Without a doubt and without the right to defense against an unfounded accusation :)
                      1. svoroponov
                        svoroponov 4 October 2022 09: 47
                        0
                        It got on the net. Now, if the tankers are alive, they will be punished. They could blow up the car or burn it down. I don't believe they didn't have that opportunity.
        3. yakisam
          yakisam 25 September 2022 02: 55
          -1
          We read the textbook "Tactics: battalion, company, platoon, squad" paragraph 565, remember:
          In the course of defense, the evacuation of out-of-service weapons and military equipment is carried out within the battalion defense area by regular evacuation means, and to the assembly point of damaged vehicles of the brigade (regiment) - by means of evacuation of the senior commander. To evacuate weapons and military equipment from under fire and in case of a threat of capture by the enemy, combat vehicles can be involved, and if evacuation is impossible, the battalion (company) commander must take measures to DESTROY them (put them out of action).
          We don’t chat at exams, we become an officer, we are appointed to a position
          We are guided by clause 16 of the Charter of the internal service, which reads - in paragraphs 2 and 5 as follows:
          ... the essence of military duty, which obliges a soldier ... to keep weapons and military equipment in constant readiness for use, to protect military property
          like this
          1. Dagger75
            Dagger75 25 September 2022 15: 17
            0
            A warrior living in service, honor the tiredness of the coming dream ...., apparently not so here
          2. militarist63
            militarist63 27 September 2022 00: 24
            +1
            Very beautifully you painted:
            We read the textbook "Tactics: battalion, company, platoon, squad" paragraph 565, remember:
            In the course of defense, the evacuation of out-of-service weapons and military equipment is carried out within the battalion defense area by regular evacuation means, and to the assembly point of damaged vehicles of the brigade (regiment) - by means of evacuation of the senior commander. To evacuate weapons and military equipment from under fire and in case of a threat of capture by the enemy, combat vehicles can be involved, and if evacuation is impossible, the battalion (company) commander must take measures to DESTROY them (put them out of action).
            But, be so kind, can you provide us with a screenshot of this here .... from this great textbook ?! For great doubts gnaw at me as to the authenticity of this citation of yours! I must say right away that the textbook is not educational literature and is not a legal document for the Prosecutor! Such textbooks are developed by some departments of combat training or departments of higher educational institutions and are of an educational and recommendatory nature, in terms of combat training ... BUT, taking into account the name of the textbook you declared "Tactics: battalion, company, platoon, squad", such textbooks are produced ALWAYS on the basis of BATTLE REGULATIONS, in fact, using excerpts from the provisions of these charters ... In this case, such a textbook should have been developed on the basis of two Combat Regulations - part 3 "platoon, squad, tank" and part 2 "battalion , company "... You know, having doubts about the reliability of the tactical requirements you stated for weapons and equipment for ".... their DESTRUCTION (incapacitation)", I once again flipped through the data of the Battle Regulations and the Soviet edition (the most familiar to me) , and Russian ones, but, sorry, I didn’t find anything like that there !!! request
            About paragraph 16 of the UVS that you have worn out (about everything and nothing), I have already answered you!
            1. yakisam
              yakisam 27 September 2022 00: 55
              -1
              Where to present?
              By the way, this quote from the manual is also a quote from paragraph 705 of BUSV-2
              This is so that it is easier to search
              What is BUSV-2 will you understand?
      2. bk316
        bk316 23 September 2022 11: 38
        +3
        I don't know about tanks. And there was no such thing in the charter to destroy weapons.
        1. svoroponov
          svoroponov 23 September 2022 16: 01
          +4
          Property and equipment, such is. In your opinion, all military property can be left intact to the enemy? And this is not provided for in the documents? Tell me what is supposed to be done with the military for the loss of weapons in wartime, and at least in non-military time. That's right - a tribunal and then a penal battalion, or a prison, or, in wartime, execution.
          1. bk316
            bk316 23 September 2022 16: 16
            +11
            In your opinion, all military property can be left intact to the enemy?

            I don't think you ever served anywhere.
            Otherwise, they would know that in the Army your "in my opinion" does not interest anyone at all. There is an order, an instruction, a requirement of the charter - do it. No - don't.
            I answer that during the years of service they did not bring me that I should do something with my gun.
            And in general, go try something with hyacinth (it seems to be on the bow). Will you beat with an ax or knock with your forehead? I also do not advise shooting - it will ricochet. And she will not be able to pour gasoline and set fire to nothing, the tires will burn out at most.

            There is such a thing about the loss, only you didn’t read it again - PERSONAL weapons are written there.
            1. futurohunter
              futurohunter 23 September 2022 18: 18
              +5
              And if you tie up shells and take off? The main thing is to disable the sights and mechanisms of the gun. The machine itself may not be destroyed - it is not interesting without a gun
              1. bk316
                bk316 23 September 2022 18: 47
                +5
                And if you tie up shells and take off?
                So the gun is thrown not out of cowardice, but always for the same reason - the BC is over.
                The sight on a hyacinth is called an art panorama and costs a penny - ask what it is. AND THERE IS NO VEHICLE NEAR 2a36, this towed gun was put in position and driven away so that they would not be hit by a counter-battery.
                1. futurohunter
                  futurohunter 24 September 2022 01: 57
                  -1
                  I wrote about self-propelled genocide. I forget everything about the towed
                  1. bk316
                    bk316 24 September 2022 11: 50
                    +1
                    I forget everything about the towed

                    They were made about 100 times more laughing , even the Ukrainians still have a bunch left.
                2. svoroponov
                  svoroponov 25 September 2022 06: 12
                  0
                  When retreating and not being able to withdraw equipment - a gun, a grenade into the barrel.
                  1. bk316
                    bk316 26 September 2022 00: 52
                    0
                    We don't give grenades either. laughing
                    Only Kalash.
                    Honestly, I only saw her on the oath.
          2. eskulap
            eskulap 23 September 2022 17: 09
            +3
            The statutes did not provide for such a scribe
          3. barbos
            barbos 23 September 2022 23: 13
            +1
            In your opinion, all military property can be left intact to the enemy?
            This does not apply to tanks, or guns, or howitzers, and a lot more. And those who work with equipment that falls under complete destruction are periodically visited by the special officer. This is such a special person who is afraid of himself Flint (unit commander).

            And it's not documented?
            Documents such on idea should be. But it's better not to think about it. And who will tell about them.

            That's right - a tribunal and then a penal battalion, or a prison, or, in wartime, execution.

            Do you have a line up to the horizon of tankers who are ready at the first command to replace the crew shot before that? How many years will it take to train a new crew from scratch (from birth)? How many weeks will it take to manufacture an obsolete iron zugunder?
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. svoroponov
              svoroponov 25 September 2022 06: 21
              0
              I am a pilot and belonged to military aviation, and so, in the event of an emergency landing and the threat of seizure of equipment, according to the charter, I had to destroy the identification system and, if possible, the equipment. The easiest way is not to land, but to eject, the destruction of the board in this case is guaranteed. Nothing is said anywhere about saving my life, although a lot of money was spent on my preparation.
              For tank crews. They are obliged, in accordance with combat regulations and directives, to prevent the entry of serviceable sludge of entire equipment to the enemy. If someone was not taught this, or he listened with half an ear to it in the classroom for the study of charters and other documents, then what happens. these are the T-90s thrown
              1. barbos
                barbos 25 September 2022 23: 51
                +1
                The fact is that the s / h recognition system is really an extremely sensitive thing to getting into the wrong hands (or heads). I read the memoirs of a man who, as a student, began participating in this epic in the sixties and after *** tsat years finished and brought to mind. We have not worked on one tank so much. And there was a very fierce matan.
                Further down the list. The plane is stuffed with electronics worse than a racing car. Getting into the wrong hands of the same radar is an extremely unpleasant situation. Engines are easier. Here you see how it works, just try it again.
                It is possible for you to use ZAS elements so that the enemy does not make out what they think about him and where. This is comparable to the s/h system.
                Now back to the tank. From the electronic filling there is only a radio station, which is really of interest only to non-ferrous metal hunters, a gun barrel stabilization system (you can assemble it yourself from an electronic designer with Ali), an aiming device. No, I didn't mess up anything. It's the adaptation. You have sights in all their glory on airplanes, plus a panoramic view, and there it is adapted. Have you ever heard the uterine voice of a speaker through a headset? To sort out in a tense atmosphere what the commander wants from you and your mother. And accidentally pull the headset cord out of the connector? Try to find him back in the dark. When I look at the twisted elastic cables on Amer's walkie-talkies from the time of the Vietnam War and remember our cables that have hardened in the cold. Only because of these twisted cables is it worth attacking and taking them away)). With a tank gun, the same thing as with the blades of an aircraft engine. Here you see them, feel them, shine through them, make guesses how this hollow cylinder was made. Therefore, the production flow chart is much more valuable. Body welded by hand from heavy steel sheets. No composite ultra-light materials with unique strength characteristics and MANPADS missile launch warning systems (I know that ATGMs are fired at tanks, but the principle of engine operation there is absolutely the same as that of MANPADS).
                In terms of concentration and level of technology, this monster does not reach the combat fighter of the late seventies. the beginning of the eighties I will not take into account the ZAS systems and the identification of S / H. How many hundreds of kilometers did your connection last in those years? They already had an intelligent radar based on the PAR, aiming and missile guidance systems, as well as an ergonomic arrangement of control elements on the dashboard. Has anyone complained about the inconvenience of the throttle? How many thousand hours of engine failure time did military aircraft have in those years? Despite the fact that many of the control systems of this monster were mechanical.
                Here it is more a shame that the enemy will actually see, and not at the parade.
      3. sgrabik
        sgrabik 23 September 2022 17: 46
        +3
        There is no need to justify a negligent crew, you can always find excuses in everything, but this is in civilian life, and this should not happen in the army, then this is an malfeasance and those responsible for it must be severely punished so that others are disrespectful, well, it's just shame, to give the enemy safe and sound our modern weapons.
      4. dv_generalov
        dv_generalov 27 September 2022 08: 02
        0
        Yes, it’s convenient for us to comment on it far from the scene of action, and only the crew and possibly the crew of the BREM know what was there on the spot
      5. PVV1958
        PVV1958 2 October 2022 12: 25
        0
        Well done, you justified the surrender of Moscow in the 41st
    5. tTshka
      tTshka 23 September 2022 06: 52
      +4
      Or maybe the tankers stumbled to create noise, but dumped along the paths, along the quiet ... but in any case - this is PPC
      1. Blacksmith 55
        Blacksmith 55 23 September 2022 11: 19
        +1
        There is such an interesting and slightly funny video, ask on the Internet:
        How the Japanese repaired the tank.

        New equipment has always aroused the interest of the enemy, so there is nothing surprising if the outskirts hand over the tank to the amers.
        1. YanniKounnar
          YanniKounnar 23 September 2022 14: 22
          0
          "cède le char aux Amers"
          Allons Allons on parle de Zelinsky en aucun cas il ne cédera le char ...il le VENDRA ! :-)

          "Give the chariot to Gorky"
          Come on, come on, we are talking about Zelinsky, he will by no means give up the tank ... he will sell it ! :-) laughing
    6. Igor K
      Igor K 23 September 2022 06: 53
      -13
      We have the National Guard itself with a mustache, disband to hell.
      1. barbos
        barbos 23 September 2022 23: 15
        -1
        Who is truly without sins, let him throw a stone at me
      2. svoroponov
        svoroponov 26 September 2022 08: 53
        0
        Rosgvardia are former internal troops. They do not expect them to be on the front line. This is the protection and cleaning of the rear and some other functions. So you don’t need to touch and disband them, but you need to use them for their intended purpose
        1. Igor K
          Igor K 26 September 2022 09: 32
          +1
          Then why were they given tanks (Kantemirovskaya division)?
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 26 September 2022 10: 35
            0
            The tanks were attached to a small group of allied troops that were in that direction, to support fire in the event of separate breakthroughs to the rear of the DRG or small groups.
    7. Serg65
      Serg65 23 September 2022 07: 13
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      because for sure there was no corresponding order for the entire time of the NWO

      "Probably" or was it not?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 07: 24
        +5
        Quote: Serg65
        "Probably" or was it not?

        Here, indirectly, after what time were they at least somehow puzzled by strikes on the railway? And then their equipment, but "without war" to burn ... What a responsibility for the signer of the order!
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 23 September 2022 07: 30
          +2
          Was there an order or was it not? Railways of the Moscow Railways do not interest me ... I am interested in the presence or absence of an order!
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 07: 35
            +2
            Quote: Serg65
            Was there an order or was it not? Railways of the Moscow Railways do not interest me ... I am interested in the presence or absence of an order!

            I am not a representative of the RF Ministry of Defense with authority, so I can only judge by the results. As long as they are...
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 23 September 2022 08: 07
              -14
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              I am not a representative of the RF Ministry of Defense with authority, so I can only judge by the results. As long as they are...

              Those. speaking in Russian, you are lying!! The question is ... for what purposes do you sow confusion in fragile minds?
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 08: 42
                +7
                Quote: Serg65
                Those. speaking in Russian, you are lying!! The question is ... for what purposes do you sow confusion in fragile minds?

                Those. can you confirm the existence of such an order? Confirm ... Or are you lying without blushing here? In the meantime, there is undestroyed equipment abandoned and already taken out and even used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 23 September 2022 09: 14
                  -1
                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  Those. can you confirm the existence of such an order? Confirm ... Or are you lying without blushing here?

                  laughing good
                  Boy, you spoke for the order, I only asked to confirm your statements!
                  lol What a rogue you are, however!
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 09: 27
                    +4
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Boy, you spoke for the order, I only asked to confirm your statements!
                    lol What a rogue you are, however!
                    Come on, don't talk nonsense. Confirm with deeds.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 23 September 2022 09: 34
                      -4
                      Quote: Vladimir_2U
                      Confirm with deeds.

                      What are Vova doing? Deeds ... I confirmed that you lied!
                      On my question..
                      Quote: Serg65
                      "Probably" or was it not?

                      You started wagging your backside like a person with non-social responsibility!
                      hi Hello fighters for the "truth"!
                      1. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 09: 36
                        +5
                        Quote: Serg65
                        You started wagging your backside like a person with non-social responsibility!

                        I do not see the text of the order, balabolchik. But everyone saw the abandoned equipment.
                      2. JD1979
                        JD1979 23 September 2022 11: 14
                        +5
                        Quote: Serg65
                        What are Vova doing? Deeds ... I confirmed that you lied!

                        How did you confirm the guy? words? so your words against his words?))) Moreover, your words are at the level of a dog barking. A plus on the other side is the abandoned equipment - if there was an order, there would be destruction, and so a bunch of abandoned equipment, and not just one T-90M.
                        And if you were a friend of a guy with logic, you would not be aggro at the phrase:
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        because for sure there was no corresponding order for the entire time of the NWO

                        which admits the probability of the absence of an order, and does not categorically state that it was not and is not.
                        And in general, the set has been announced - go ahead, prove it with deeds.
                  2. sgrabik
                    sgrabik 23 September 2022 17: 54
                    +1
                    The presence or absence of an order does not change the attitude to what happened and not a fun final result, our latest sample
                    armored vehicles fell into the hands of the enemy, it is necessary to draw deep conclusions from this and work on the mistakes, and those who allowed this must be substantively and severely punished, this cannot be hushed up and put on the brakes.
                2. bk316
                  bk316 23 September 2022 11: 41
                  -2

                  Those. can you confirm the existence of such an order? Confirm..

                  Uh, no namesake. BOLD minus you. You said.
                  for sure there was no corresponding order for the entire time of the NWO

                  You and prove. If you refuse, you are a LIAR and a fake thrower.

                  To all other self-respecting people. Learn to separate facts from speculation when you write comments.
                  "there was no order" - this is a statement of the fact and it will have to be proved (and this is very difficult) and do not prove you are a liar
                  "on the fact of the event I guess that there was no order" - this is a conclusion (in other words, speculation) and it must be logically argued
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 11: 50
                    +4
                    Quote: bk316
                    You and prove. If you refuse, you are a LIAR and a fake thrower.








                    Do you see the order? Not? So it doesn't exist.
                    See abandoned equipment? You see, it means there is confirmation of my words.
                    Quote: bk316
                    "on the fact of the event, I assume that there was no order" - this is a conclusion (in other words, speculation) and it must be logically argued
                    My assumption is confirmed by both direct facts (video and photos of abandoned equipment) and indirect ones (delay with damage to the infrastructure of the outskirts)
                    In short - you are the same balabol as the previous speaker.
                    1. bk316
                      bk316 23 September 2022 12: 02
                      -3
                      Do you see the order? Not? So he is not

                      Understandable problems with logic, go to school (joke).
                      At your leisure, think about the following: you see (Poseidon, black hole, electron, paragraph 7 of the mobilization decree). Not? So they don't exist.

                      This is called solipsism, in everyday life it is considered a mental illness.

                      In the meantime, you do not bring a certificate from the doctor (I do not believe that I finally met a real household solipsist) we will assume that you are a liar and a fake thrower. I will personally apologize and sympathize.
                      1. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 17: 02
                        +1
                        Quote: bk316
                        In the meantime, you do not bring a certificate from the doctor (I do not believe that I finally met a real household solipsist) we will assume that you are a liar and a fake thrower.

                        Balabol who did not even provide circumstantial evidence requires some kind of certificate. He also talks about logic.
                      2. bk316
                        bk316 23 September 2022 17: 43
                        -2
                        Google solispism, maybe it will come.
                        In the meantime, you balabol fake thrower.
                      3. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 17: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: bk316
                        Google solispism, maybe it will come.
                        In the meantime, you balabol fake thrower.

                        Hey, connoisseur of philosophy, there is abandoned equipment, but where is the order?
                      4. My doctor
                        My doctor 23 September 2022 18: 56
                        +3
                        Quote: bk316
                        In the meantime, you do not bring a certificate from the doctor (I do not believe that I finally met a real household solipsist) we will assume that you are a liar and a fake thrower. I will personally apologize and sympathize.

                        You are confusing solipsism with rationalism. This rationalism is opposed to empiricism. Solipsism (from the word solo - one) is one of the philosophical problems, the essence of which is to prove the existence of the World outside the consciousness of the subject. The issue has not been resolved to date, but is no longer relevant and is considered a "weak problem".
                        Quote: bk316
                        Google solispism, maybe it will come.
                        In the meantime, you balabol fake thrower.

                        Thomas Nagel "A very short introduction to philosophy" second chapter. A book for children, so you can master one chapter.
    8. dnestr74
      dnestr74 23 September 2022 07: 53
      +4
      What punishment? For a tank abandoned in good condition? Yes, tribunal...
      Throw a lemon into the hatch of the tower and leave, who will punish and for what?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 08: 03
        +6
        Quote: dnestr74
        What punishment? For a tank abandoned in good condition? Yes, tribunal...
        Why would? Also write that "according to the laws of war"

        Quote: dnestr74
        Throw a lemon into the hatch of the tower and leave, who will punish and for what?
        Uh-huh, you don’t want a deadline and payments for damage to property? According to the laws of war ... but there is no "war time"
        1. AdAstra
          AdAstra 23 September 2022 13: 11
          0
          And subtly you are talking about wartime, howeverlaughing
      2. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 23 September 2022 09: 10
        +7
        Quote: dnestr74
        Throw a lemon into the hatch of the tower and leave

        Advice from a suicide bomber? Have you tried throwing a lemon down the hatch? Have you ever seen how a BC explodes in a tank? When the tower flies 100 meters. And if without the detonation of the BC, then the sense of lemon is zero. It will still not be used for combat purposes, but for study. As well as the captured NATO equipment.
        1. Graduate engineer
          Graduate engineer 23 September 2022 11: 39
          +1
          Egor-dis, the only sensible answer in this discussion.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 11: 44
            -1
            Quote: Diplomingenieur
            Egor-dis, the only sensible answer in this discussion.

            Firstly, you can set it on fire, and secondly, the burnout of the tank, even without detonation, makes it completely unusable with no chance of recovery.
        2. SincerityX
          SincerityX 26 September 2022 08: 35
          +1
          Well, yes, a lemon in the hatch, it must be a terminator at least. It is better to straighten the antennae, pull up the ring, leave it with a skew in the second ring of the lever and put (better to wind it) neatly on the BC, and pull the rope to the ring, which is just 30 meters somewhere behind the tree and pull.
      3. bk0010
        bk0010 23 September 2022 13: 21
        -1
        Quote: dnestr74
        Throw a lemon into the hatch of the tower and leave, who will punish and for what?
        They can actually ... How will it go. Will be punished for unauthorized destruction of entrusted military equipment. There is no official war. Orders for destruction, too.
    9. Per se.
      Per se. 23 September 2022 09: 03
      +15
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Destruction of equipment that cannot be removed and which can become a trophy of the enemy - these are the basics!
      First of all, the basics, do not sell what is also new in your army. Otherwise, how to perceive the statements that out of 2100 T-90 tanks of various modifications, more than 1500 were exported. For export, they were ready to sell not only the T-90 "Breakthrough", but also the T-14 "Armata" (they would be willing).

      Before the novelty appears, it will already be presented in "desert colors" for export.

      The S-400s were also sold to NATO members, why be surprised. The same "Cape" was previously sold to Armenia, and we did not have the BMP-3F yet, but it was sold to Indonesia.

      Who are the main culprits here, with our buy and sell, where raw materials were briskly traded and Soviet military developments. Who is to blame that the SVO began as a gamble, that the Bandera people were preparing for 8 years after 2014, and we, as it turns out, wanted to take Kyiv on a gop-stop?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 09: 07
        +4
        Quote: Per se.
        First of all, the basics, do not sell what is also new in your army.
        It is possible and necessary! But not to enemies, and certainly not to give.
        1. Prosha
          Prosha 27 September 2022 23: 12
          -1
          Of course, you don’t need to donate, but where you would like to get acquainted and study this technique, it already exists and not only in hardware, but also, I’m sure, in documentation and instructions!
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 23 September 2022 11: 21
        +12
        Quote: Per se.
        First of all, the basics, do not sell what is also new in your army. Otherwise, how to perceive the statements that out of 2100 T-90 tanks of various modifications, more than 1500 were exported. For export, they were ready to sell not only the T-90 "Breakthrough", but also the T-14 "Armata" (they would be willing).

        Would you like to say that the roots of the tightening of the NMD lie in the insufficient equipment of the army with equipment? But what does the "lack" of technology have to do with the fact that
        Quote: Per se.
        The NWO began as a gamble, that the Bandera people were preparing for 8 years after 2014, but in our country, how does it turn out, they wanted to take Kyiv on a gop-stop?

        Maybe something needs to be changed in the conservatory? Well, so that highly intelligent theorists do not create states of tank regiments with practically no infantry and divisions without UAVs? So that gunners would be able to use what they already have - and not shoot for years from the same positions at the same targets, demonstrating to the high authorities a steady increase in combat training? So that electronic warfare equipment is not used as a bed for a cat with kittens, because no one knows how to use this hedgehog ... and most importantly, they don’t want to know (although all the data on the manufacturer is available). So that the more and more complicated MPL and the bayonet-knife would not lie in warehouses and in the KShM and not be pulled out of there only for the time of the next parade and weekend event - because the commander is reluctant to account for the loss or damage to the entrusted property?
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 26 September 2022 00: 10
          -1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Maybe something needs to be changed in the conservatory?

          Yes, this is some sort of sabotage. Who are you to encroach on the age-old foundations of the indestructible and legendary?
        2. Just a visitor.
          Just a visitor. 27 September 2022 11: 47
          -1
          Probably no one thought about real opposition from Ukraine with the support of NATO. They probably thought that they would immediately get scared and sit down. And no one was preparing for real hostilities. Indeed, sending tanks without support to the front line is like setting them up as targets in a shooting range. The crews understood this, and therefore left the cars without waiting for them to be destroyed there.
    10. SARMAT123
      SARMAT123 23 September 2022 10: 26
      +2
      afraid (tankers) most likely! Have you seen the laws that they concocted in one day (on the knee)? That's how they lived...
    11. AAK
      AAK 23 September 2022 11: 14
      +2
      During the NWO period, the President assigned several units the name of the Guards. I think it is also expedient to introduce a reverse tradition - the deprivation of guards status. Specifically, on the facts of the loss of military equipment, incl. the newest, cowardly abandonment of positions without a fight and a stampede from the front line, in relation to one of the two "court" divisions near Moscow (it does not matter, Tamanskaya or Kantemirovskaya, this should be established by competent comrades, and suddenly in relation to both ...) is very significant it would be to issue a decree on the deprivation of the guards banner, obtained by heroism and the blood of their ancestors in the Second World War, as well as on the exclusion of the specified unit from those presenting their ceremonial calculations on Victory Day ...
    12. Negruz
      Negruz 23 September 2022 17: 08
      0
      To think the crew does not need an order ....
      No need to blame everything on the leadership of the Moscow Region ...
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 17: 22
        -1
        Quote: Negruz
        To think the crew does not need an order ....
        No need to blame everything on the leadership of the Moscow Region ...

        There is an expression "More paper - cleaner ass", and in the army this expression in peacetime, oh how relevant. And drugs were taught to this intensely.
        1. Negruz
          Negruz 23 September 2022 17: 25
          -1
          There is an expression "More paper - cleaner ass", and in the army this expression in peacetime, oh how relevant. And drugs were taught to this intensely

          If a specific crew (crew commander) of a specific tank is stupid, no leadership of the Ministry of Defense will change this with any orders ....
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 17: 44
            -1
            Quote: Negruz
            If a specific crew (crew commander) of a specific tank is stupid, no leadership of the Ministry of Defense will change this with any orders ....

            Well, damn it, there are plenty of abandoned vehicles, the people went nuts because the tank is the newest ...
            1. Negruz
              Negruz 23 September 2022 18: 00
              0
              So I say: there is no need to shift the irresponsibility and lack of initiative of specific crews of combat vehicles to the leadership of the Ministry of Defense ....
              According to the charter, it is enough for a commander - even the youngest one - to say clearly and clearly: "I have decided!" ...
    13. futurohunter
      futurohunter 23 September 2022 17: 15
      0
      The order on the destruction of equipment was issued recently
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 17: 20
        -1
        Quote: futurohunter
        The order on the destruction of equipment was issued recently

        I won't argue with this. Because all the bullshit with abandoned equipment happened earlier than the other day. hi
    14. Taimen
      Taimen 23 September 2022 18: 06
      -1
      What is the priest, such is the parish. What did you want from the marshal who did not serve in the army and the generals he recruited? Yes, they don’t know about it. Here grandmothers can definitely count, especially foreign currency. To make their parsins in temples, that’s basically their skill.
      1. barbos
        barbos 23 September 2022 23: 22
        -3
        Quote: Taimen
        What did you want from the marshal who did not serve in the army and the generals he recruited?

        Type did not serve, not a man?

        Here grandmothers can definitely count, especially foreign currency.

        Well, this is somehow Dishman, somehow collective-farm reasoning. For their position and power, money, and even more so, foreign currency is really paper.
    15. zenion
      zenion 23 September 2022 21: 40
      0
      Vladimir_2U. Hastily think that he could be captured. There are some tricks that no one sees, but many guess. Like - the tank could be sold, the tank could be drunk away. The crew did it in retaliation for what was done to the country.
    16. vvn_vl
      vvn_vl 24 September 2022 11: 09
      0
      you are right: the army is in command, and these are in charge
    17. Sidor_Bodrov
      Sidor_Bodrov 24 September 2022 17: 40
      -1
      All sorts of shoals pop up all over the place. That drowned "Moscow" without anti-missile defense, now here is the newest secret tank without remote self-destruction. It seems that all our structures are occupied by pests, greedy traitors, or, at best, boobies.
    18. koramax81
      koramax81 24 September 2022 20: 47
      0
      what about the leadership? Maybe the fighters are gouging, or the situation did not allow to destroy. It’s good to give out commands from the couch. Go to the military registration and enlistment office - show how it is necessary
    19. Beetle1991
      Beetle1991 25 September 2022 07: 22
      0
      Here is a commentary from the scene. How to throw equipment.
  2. BARKAS
    BARKAS 23 September 2022 05: 30
    0
    At least let them install explosives on a regular basis on such equipment for undermining, even with remote control.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 05: 55
      +2
      Quote: BARKAS
      even with remote control.

      Wake up, Michael! Given the clear American superiority in the RER and the closed communication, a very bad idea!
    2. Kim
      Kim 23 September 2022 06: 07
      -4
      yes it is better to weld hatches


      Are you sure that this system is 100% reliable?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 23 September 2022 11: 31
        +2
        Quote from kim
        yes it is better to weld hatches

        And there are more special officers - let them look for sedition.
        And they call us
        And they call us
        And here they call us
        In our special department
        Tell me why you ...
        Tell me why you ...
        Tell me why you
        Didn’t burn out with the tank?, oh

        Love brothers love, love brothers to live!
        In the tank brigade does not have to push

        You forgive me
        You forgive me
        You forgive me -
        I tell them that
        In the next attack
        In the next attack
        In the next attack
        I'll definitely burn, oh

        Love brothers love, love brothers to live!
        In the tank brigade does not have to push
    3. laws70
      laws70 23 September 2022 08: 18
      +3
      At least let them install explosives on a regular basis on such equipment for undermining, even with remote control.

      All NATO equipment comes with GPS beacons just for such purposes. But then NATO .. ​​we have our own way ..
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 September 2022 11: 29
      +4
      Quote: BARKAS
      At least let them install explosives on a regular basis on such equipment for undermining, even with remote control.

      What's the point? In that war, we had equipment with regular detonation devices in case of capture by the enemy. And the Germans got it already in October 1941, along with the BC.
      1. bk316
        bk316 23 September 2022 11: 52
        0
        When I served, hyacinth-s (2s5) was considered a secret technique.
        Believe me, there was no detonation device in it. And by God, except for blowing up the BC, I don’t know how to damage it.
        And I have never seen a 2s5 with a full BC on board and they usually shoot from the ground and the BC is brought up by a separate car.

        True, there were rumors about instructions for the destruction of nuclear shells for her, but in my entire service I have not seen either a shell or this instruction.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 17: 47
          0
          Quote: bk316
          Believe me, there was no detonation device in it. And by God, except for blowing up the BC, I don’t know how to damage it.

          Do not let the TNB come in handy, but know that in a fire, metal, even armor and barrels, get annealed and lose their properties, up to deformation.
          You don’t know the elementary, but there you are broadcasting something about logic.
          1. bk316
            bk316 23 September 2022 17: 55
            0
            so this is in case of a fire, and if you just splash it with gasoline and it will not have time to heat up. laughing Yes, and gasoline is not supposed to be calculated.
            I saw 2a36 myself, even from afar, fake-shooter?
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 23 September 2022 18: 03
              -1
              What, a petrol engine on a Hyacinth with a diesel engine? Or maybe you will also write that powder charges were not supposed to be. Bullshit your knowledge.
              1. bk316
                bk316 23 September 2022 18: 13
                +1
                What, a petrol engine on a Hyacinth with a diesel engine?

                There is no weirdo engine on 2a36 laughing
                This is a towed gun. Therefore, do not burn it or damage it.
                Did you serve in sofas?
                Our self-propelled howitzers contain the letter C in their name.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 25 September 2022 14: 23
                  0
                  Quote: bk316
                  Our self-propelled howitzers contain the letter C in their name.

                  Is it like this?
                  Quote: bk316
                  When I served, hyacinth-s (2s5) was considered a secret technique.

                  Quote: bk316
                  And I have never seen a 2s5 with a full BC on board and they usually shoot from the ground and the BC is brought up by a separate car.

                  You are confused in the statements.
                  1. bk316
                    bk316 26 September 2022 00: 46
                    0
                    I don't get confused. And you, mister liar, read the wiki.
                    This is the same weapon in 2 versions. In towed (2a36) and self-propelled (2s5). I am the commander of 2a36 and wrote about him that you can destroy him. But in training, naturally, they studied at 2s5 and worked on it in part.
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 26 September 2022 03: 46
                      0
                      Quote: bk316
                      And you, mister liar, read the wiki.

                      I poke you once again what you yourself wrote:
                      Quote: bk316
                      When I served, hyacinth-s (2s5) was considered a secret technique.

                      Quote: bk316
                      And I have never seen 2s5 with full BC on board and they usually shoot from the ground

                      And about the towed one, after he began to wag, the kopetan whirlwind:
                      Quote: bk316
                      I myself saw 2a36, even from afar, fake gunner




                      Quote: bk316
                      I am the commander of 2a36 and wrote about him that you can destroy him.

                      You may not be lying, but as an artilleryman you are bullshit, because not being able to destroy a rifled barrel is the bottom.
                      And about the fake thrower, it’s not stupid to write about facts ignoring.
                      1. bk316
                        bk316 26 September 2022 10: 13
                        +1
                        When I served, hyacinth-s (2s5) was considered a secret technique.

                        Yes, it was so, and when we studied it, we were already forced to learn the timetable for the passage of satellites.
                        And the arrangement of the position for 2c5 (this is about shooting from the ground) was not only remembered with the head, but with the back and calluses on the hands.

                        But my gun is 2a36.
                        And in general, what is for 2c5 and what is for 2a36 is the same.
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 26 September 2022 10: 31
                        0
                        Quote: bk316

                        But my gun is 2a36.
                        And in general, what is for 2c5 and what is for 2a36 is the same.

                        That's it, enough barking, I apologize for everything. hi
                      3. bk316
                        bk316 26 September 2022 11: 23
                        0
                        Apologies are accepted. hi
                        In general, I'm just very picky about the wording, I'm a mathematician by education.
            2. cat Rusich
              cat Rusich 24 September 2022 23: 33
              0
              Quote: bk316
              so this is in case of a fire, and if you just splash it with gasoline and it will not have time to heat up. laughing Yes, and gasoline is not supposed to be calculated.
              ?
              Is it possible to pour something like sand into the gun barrel ...? - the meaning of the idea is to jam the projectile in the barrel and achieve a rupture of the barrel ...
              There is a proposal - is it real or not to use it, or to no avail?
              request
              1. bk316
                bk316 26 September 2022 00: 49
                0
                Is it possible to pour something like sand into the gun barrel ..

                If the shells remain, then it is easier to blow it up differently.
                And if this is about the enemy, then the barrel is supposed to be cleaned before firing.
                Then it’s better to screw up the cutter (I forgot what it’s called) somehow, but you can’t do it in a hurry, and I repeat the instructions were never shown to us.
        2. zenion
          zenion 23 September 2022 21: 43
          0
          Of course, there was no donkey nearby, but they could pee in the tank themselves. And from such a mockery, the tank will not move.
    5. barbos
      barbos 23 September 2022 23: 26
      0
      Why, then, are tanks like that from guns, ATGMs to shoot? I cracked the code (and they have more than enough computing equipment for these purposes) and all the tanks flew into the air. Without a single shot.
    6. SincerityX
      SincerityX 26 September 2022 08: 41
      0
      even with remote control.

      A "great" idea, so that in 20 minutes / days / months a loud "boom" will be heard along the front.
      At least let them install explosives on such equipment

      But this is a good idea, to set a regular self-destruct timer with a remote control for all crew members and a small charge to undermine the BC.
  3. your vsr 66-67
    your vsr 66-67 23 September 2022 05: 31
    +3
    All this is sad! But the question is not being considered that this tank was thrown on purpose?
    1. bk316
      bk316 23 September 2022 11: 54
      +4
      The issue is not considered

      Is there anyone here who can answer this question?
      Or is it rhetorical?
      1. your vsr 66-67
        your vsr 66-67 23 September 2022 15: 15
        0
        I think there are enough specialists in VO, including special officers.
        1. bk316
          bk316 23 September 2022 16: 13
          +3
          They will definitely shut up. they are silent laughing
    2. SincerityX
      SincerityX 26 September 2022 08: 48
      0
      But the question is not being considered that this tank was thrown on purpose?

      And by the way, yes, why didn’t anyone think that the crew simply sold this tank? After all, this is a very likely event .. Since some military personnel are quite possibly sell equipment to us.
  4. Dart2027
    Dart2027 23 September 2022 05: 32
    +2
    What is surprising is that the crew apparently made no attempt to destroy the machine, or at least the most important equipment.
    Perhaps he simply went for help, hoping that the tank would either be towed and repaired.
    1. Serg4545
      Serg4545 23 September 2022 06: 48
      +3
      Quote: Dart2027
      Perhaps he simply went for help, hoping that the tank would either be towed and repaired.


      By the way, that's exactly what happened.
      And if we destroy every tank that breaks down not far from the front line, just in case, we will quickly be left without tanks.
      And further. In the article, I never saw what was so secret and important on this tank.
      Russian counterparts, foreign systems?
      Complex "Relic" and Cape, which we sell to everyone?
      In general, so-so "secrets".
  5. Andrey Moskvin
    Andrey Moskvin 23 September 2022 05: 33
    +2
    And it is already known whose tank, where is the crew? In short, who is to blame?
    1. ARIONkrsk
      ARIONkrsk 23 September 2022 06: 28
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      And it is already known whose tank, where is the crew? In short, who is to blame?

      Naturally, it is known that the crew then arrived back without a tank.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 23 September 2022 07: 19
        +2
        Quote from ARIONkrsk
        Naturally, it is known that the crew then arrived back without a tank.

        did the crew arrive?
        1. your1970
          your1970 23 September 2022 07: 38
          0
          Quote: aybolyt678
          Quote from ARIONkrsk
          Naturally, it is known that the crew then arrived back without a tank.

          did the crew arrive?

          I strongly doubt it. In general, the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine were dragged away by dragging is similar to serious malfunction
    2. barbos
      barbos 23 September 2022 23: 27
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      In general, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE?

      Chubais as always)
  6. Seryoga Nemuslim
    Seryoga Nemuslim 23 September 2022 05: 38
    +1
    In this way, Armata will also be abandoned. Where there was a support unit, maybe really, they just sold it.
  7. Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 05: 38
    +19
    I am most interested in where those who abandoned their tank are now. If they are not sitting alone, waiting for a tribunal that will send them to life, then revolutionary moods begin to arise in me. The lower classes don't want to, the upper classes can't. I am from the bottom. And what is happening now, including the shameful "exchange" of 57 + Medvedchuk for 200 Nazis and 10 mercenaries sentenced to death, only strengthens my mood. Lies and betrayal all around. First of all, betrayal of those who honestly fulfill their duty at the front.
    1. BARKAS
      BARKAS 23 September 2022 05: 43
      +12
      The command of the unit must first of all answer for this only so that such cases can be prevented.
    2. futurohunter
      futurohunter 23 September 2022 17: 19
      -2
      What's wrong with exchange? The lives of our people are more important than "shame"
      1. Dilettante grandfather
        Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 17: 53
        +5
        What was publicly promised: the Nazis are not to be exchanged, they will be tribunal. The fact that the mercenaries sentenced to death by the court did not suffer the deserved punishment, but instead were released. That one who promises and does not keep the promise is a liar. Should I continue, or will you understand further?
    3. Mikhail Ya2
      Mikhail Ya2 24 September 2022 22: 36
      -1
      As compensation, Putin raised his and Medvedev's salaries by 4%
  8. your1970
    your1970 23 September 2022 06: 10
    +28
    I love comments on VO ...
    Not knowing absolutely the circumstances of the incident, none at all - conclusions are already being drawn -
    Quote: your vsr 66-67
    Was the tank abandoned on purpose?

    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    And this is another shame of the leadership of the Moscow Region

    Quote: Andrey Moskvin
    WHO'S GUILTY?

    Quote: Seryoga Nemuslim
    maybe they just sold it.

    Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
    Lies and betrayal all around. First of all, betrayal of those who honestly fulfill their duty at the front.

    The fact that the crew is stupid NOTHING to undermine the tank, then that it could run out of fuel / jam the engine - it wasn’t just that the Armed Forces of Ukraine dragged it, then that the crew could die all at the time of repairing the caterpillar - when they dragged the caterpillar in one burst it was possible to put them -
    no, it's not up for discussion.
    Then immediately anger - "Betrayed, sold!!" which strongly resembles the enemy with his "Zrada!!".

    Previously, opinions were on VO, discussions, comments were often more interesting than articles - but now only "Urya!" and "Zrada!" ...
    1. Eug
      Eug 23 September 2022 06: 21
      0
      As an amateur, I immediately think of an ordinary infantry grenade in the BC and remote detonation (unless, of course, the crew has grenades). In such a case, it is worth providing a fuse with a slowdown of 10-12 seconds. I do not want to blame anyone for anything, I just consider it as an option.
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 23 September 2022 06: 22
      +4
      Quote: your1970
      Then immediately anger - "Betrayed, sold!!" which strongly resembles the enemy with his "Zrada!!".

      And why did such a tank end up in the forest alone, what is the reason? Or did he "went" on reconnaissance and got lost?
      1. Seryoga Nemuslim
        Seryoga Nemuslim 23 September 2022 06: 32
        +3
        Exactly. Military tests are always carried out with support, and not like the T-90M was launched near Kharkov and he was covered up from Karl Gustav with further turret throwing. A lone tank in the forest from the same series.
    3. Dilettante grandfather
      Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 06: 35
      -3
      The fact that the crew stupidly has NOTHING to undermine the tank
      And stupidly there is nothing to pull the caterpillar? And shoot at the enemy, if he was close, stupidly nothing?! Don't make nonsense! Any combat vehicle in the spare parts kit has both a tool and such trifles as spare tracks. Throwing a serviceable tank on the battlefield is not a betrayal, not a desertion?!
      the fact that the entire crew could die at the time of repairing the caterpillar - when they dragged the caterpillar in one burst, they could have been put
      Are there facts, not speculation? The fact of capturing a tank is. And the fact that the crew died? And the fact that "the fuel ran out / the engine jammed"?
      1. Torins
        Torins 23 September 2022 07: 00
        -2
        Are there facts, not speculation? The fact of capturing a tank is. And the fact that the crew died? And the fact that "the fuel ran out / the engine jammed"?
        Do you have evidence of betrayal? Facts on the table! Otherwise, you are not a man!
        1. Dilettante grandfather
          Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 07: 25
          +1
          The fact that the tank was left undamaged to the enemy is a betrayal. Flight from the battlefield is a betrayal. How did they deal with such people during the Great Patriotic War? If you don't know, read the memoirs of veterans. Even if the tank was hit, but did not catch fire, and had the ability to fire, the crew did not have the right to abandon it.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 23 September 2022 11: 51
            +2
            Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
            The fact that the tank was left undamaged to the enemy is a betrayal. Flight from the battlefield is a betrayal. How did they deal with such people during the Great Patriotic War? If you don't know, read the memoirs of veterans. Even if the tank was hit, but did not catch fire, and had the ability to fire, the crew did not have the right to abandon it.

            In this case, we would have no tankers left by August 1941.
            Faulty and stuck equipment was left in that war too - hoping that the territory would remain with us, a tractor would come and pull the tank to SPAM.
            Here are the latest T-34s that got stuck at Nemirov on 24.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX and went to the Germans:

            And here is the KV-2 abandoned in Zolochiv:
            1. Dilettante grandfather
              Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 14: 24
              0
              "I fought on the T-34", a collection of memoirs of veterans. A. Drabkin, Eksmo publishing house, 2008. Read.
              1. invisible_man
                invisible_man 23 September 2022 17: 41
                0
                In the first months of the Second World War, the retreating Red Army abandoned thousands of tanks and armored vehicles intact, mainly due to lack of fuel. Photos - a lot.
                1. Dilettante grandfather
                  Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 18: 05
                  0
                  I indicated the source. It's not about the first months of the war, as far as I remember.
                  The fact that the tanks were abandoned in the first months of the war due to lack of fuel and malfunctions is not the fault of the tankers, the fault of the command, which was unable to establish supplies. It did not provide tank units with normal anti-aircraft cover at that time, cover with fighter aircraft. Plus, the quality of the tanks left much to be desired, unsuccessful checkpoints, fairly frequent defects even in new, from the factory, cars.
                  1. invisible_man
                    invisible_man 23 September 2022 18: 39
                    +1
                    What is there to "arrange supplies"? These tank columns ended up in the rear of the advancing German troops, like the Brest Fortress.
              2. Essex62
                Essex62 23 September 2022 17: 43
                +2
                The Wehrmacht formed entire units from the captured 34k and KV and they fought against the Red Army. Until the most victorious May, they were used. Even in Berlin, as a "panserturm". There was a photo on the net, 34ka 76th sprinkled with cobblestones from the pavement. Now I can't find a photo. Maybe someone has?
      2. your1970
        your1970 23 September 2022 07: 09
        +11
        You YOURSELF (!!!!!!!) write
        Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
        there are facts, not speculation?

        - I just wrote about the fact that the facts besides the capture - NO.There is not.....
        And we DO NOT KNOW reasons for his capture...
        And the commentators immediately began to shout - "Zrada!", "Sold / betrayed!" and all that hysteria...

        Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
        To throw serviceable tank on the battlefield
        - and this NOT fact. Otherwise, the Armed Forces of Ukraine would have pulled a caterpillar for him, filled it with fuel and hijacked it under their own power. And his - dragged off dragging...
        It's not a fact of it, maybe critical, malfunctions?!!! The running gear is my age, nothing new

        And yes about loneliness.

        During the war in Spain, 3 T-26s went on the attack. They reached the Falangist trenches, knocked them out. They found that OWN infantry did not attack. They returned. They raised their infantry, went on the attack. Their infantry did not go on the attack. They returned, raised their own from the trenches, knocked out, found that they were alone. They returned, and then they ran out of fuel ....
        I strongly suspect that the author of the memoirs remembered the entire genealogy of all Republicans up to the seventh generation with a kind, gentle word, with a twist ....

        War, anything can happen..
        1. Dilettante grandfather
          Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 07: 37
          -5
          Otherwise, the Armed Forces of Ukraine would have pulled a caterpillar for him, filled it with fuel and would have stolen it under their own power. And he was dragged away ...
          On the line of contact, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had no desire to bother with the repair of tracks, which is absolutely logical: artillery can attack at any moment. Especially if the crew has already reached ours. Here they took it away.
          As for Spain, such situations also took place during the Finnish campaign. Moreover, there tanks were attached to infantry units, and infantry commanders threw them into battle without infantry. "The infantry shouted "Hurrah!", But they did not go on the attack for the tanks." XX Century of Tanks", "Lightning War"). Most likely - at Drabkin.
          War, anything can happen..

          In the same Drabkin, memoirs of veterans (in my own words I convey the meaning, I am too lazy to open the book): The tank was knocked out, but until it burned down, the crew has no right to leave the car. If, as a result of the battle, the car burned down, it was written off, and without question. If the tank did not burn down, and the tankers abandoned it and went back to their own, the special officer began to deal with them.
          And this situation is just from this series. hi
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 23 September 2022 17: 50
            +3
            Drabkin is not there, that in a burning or not yet burning, but that's it, because they knocked out, the order was to sit. Arrived - the crew, who are alive, breaks into all the hatches, and then according to the situation.
            Another nonsense about cannibal Bolsheviks? Have you seen enough of "penal battalions" and "burnt by the sun"?
            1. Dilettante grandfather
              Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 18: 08
              0
              Now I'll go and find the page, I have all the books on the shelf.
            2. Dilettante grandfather
              Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 19: 02
              +1
              Another nonsense about cannibal commissars? Have you seen enough of "penal battalions" and "burnt by the sun"?

              Let's start. as promised. About cases of cowardice / leaving the tank.
              "I fought with a T-34", A. Drabkin. Page 63, chapter "The crew of the combat vehicle", from the words "Not everyone was able to cope with fear ..."
              Next, about what he was talking about. Page 90, Bondar A.V.: “I lie and think: “Well, why aren’t you on fire, why aren’t you on fire?” After all, if the tank did not burn out, I was threatened with a penal battalion, because I had the right to leave the tank in two cases: firstly, if it burned down, and secondly, if the weapons are out of order "©
              Check.
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 23 September 2022 19: 26
                +1
                What is there to check? The crew of the wrecked tank left and LIES, waiting on the sidelines, it will blaze, it will not blaze. Will the BC detonate or not. It was really impossible to leave the car, not to leave the tank, it’s not like staying in it after being hit. The charter and orders did not prescribe suicide. The unit commander could give a personal order to fire from a place, in the absence of a fire or the danger of an explosion of ammunition, but again, this is according to the situation.
                1. Dilettante grandfather
                  Dilettante grandfather 23 September 2022 19: 35
                  +2
                  What is there to check?

                  Your words?:
                  Drabkin is not there, that in a burning or not yet burning

                  I promised to find. Found. Quoted, page led.
                  if the tank did not burn down, I was threatened with a penal battalion,

                  Still have questions?
                  Don't argue without evidence. Lying is not my habit. I have the honor. hi
                  1. Essex62
                    Essex62 24 September 2022 01: 40
                    +1
                    Yes, I, as it were, didn’t catch you in a lie, and I remembered this episode of the book very well. I only specified that the crew always left the damaged car, if they could. Even if the harp was interrupted. A motionless tank is a target and everyone wants to live. And then, yes, so, he threw it whole, the tribunal. Change shoes, on your own or wait for the rembat, "Sila" or when they are hooked by another tank. hi
    4. Andrey Moskvin
      Andrey Moskvin 23 September 2022 06: 56
      +1
      So this is a discussion, a discussion. No one draws final conclusions. Connect and you, since such a principled. And then everyone was blamed.
      1. your1970
        your1970 23 September 2022 07: 34
        +1
        Quote: Andrey Moskvin
        No one final draws no conclusions

        Yes? Yes, well, what the hell .... how they do it ...
        Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
        Throwing a serviceable tank on the battlefield is not a betrayal, not a desertion?!

        Quote: fiberboard
        They were in a hurry to see ,, Khvardeytsy ,,.

        Quote: Graz
        The unit that donated the latest tank to the enemy should be punished


        Add to these angry reviews - a 3-day period (including the day of initiation and the day of transferring materials to the tribunal) and you will understand why SMERSH front-line soldiers did not like during the war ...

        From the whole discussion - 1 comment useful
        Quote: BARKAS
        At least let them install explosives on a regular basis on such equipment to undermine
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 23 September 2022 13: 25
          +4
          Quote: your1970

          From the whole discussion - 1 comment useful
          Quote: BARKAS
          At least let them install explosives on a regular basis on such equipment to undermine
          A very bad idea: for one required operation, there will be a dozen detonations due to idiots and bad luck.
          1. your1970
            your1970 23 September 2022 14: 37
            0
            Quote: bk0010
            Quote: your1970

            From the whole discussion - 1 comment useful
            Quote: BARKAS
            At least let them install explosives on a regular basis on such equipment to undermine
            A very bad idea: for one required operation, there will be a dozen detonations due to idiots and bad luck.

            Well then, what questions to the crew - how were they supposed to destroy it? Well, this is not a Katyusha from the time of the Second World War with a wooden cabin ...
          2. SincerityX
            SincerityX 26 September 2022 09: 09
            0
            A very bad idea: for one required operation, there will be a dozen detonations due to idiots and bad luck.

            With all due respect, I remind you that a tank is a rather complex system stuffed with explosives. In addition, the projectile often has rather complex mechanisms, including an igniter and a fuse, and if the latter can have a protection mechanism against triggering, then the cartridge case igniter does not have such means. However, mass self-detonation of tanks due to the operation of the igniter of the sleeve due to the impact on it with a solid object by idiots, I did not notice. Based on these facts, I can conclude that a package covered with a plate explosion and a remote control with a toggle switch safety cover and a dial pad with a simple password of 2-3 characters will not cause an emergency self-explosion.
        2. Essex62
          Essex62 23 September 2022 19: 32
          0
          Well, what does SMERSH have to do with it? The counterintelligence body did not deal with deserters and violators of orders. Specialist, at the subdivision, did not belong to SMERSH.
    5. cold wind
      cold wind 23 September 2022 09: 23
      +3
      Quote: your1970
      Without knowing absolutely the circumstances of the incident, none at all, conclusions are already being drawn

      In fact, what happened there is known.
      The Ukrainians repeated the German offensive in May 1942 on Barvenko-Izyum, that operation ended with the encirclement and defeat of the Soviet army of ~ 240 people and a rollback to Stalingrad.
      Only this time, the Russian command did not allow the encirclement of units of the 1st Guards Tank Red Banner Army and ordered them to retreat. And retreat immediately, throwing everything that interferes with the movement. The army carried out the order. The fact that the tanks did not destroy, because there was no order for this, the initiative is punishable with us, everyone knows that. The crew would have to compensate for the loss of the tank from their own money. So questions to the higher command. Well, at least our large units were not surrounded.
      According to oryx, the ukrovermacht captured approximately ~200 armored vehicles. By the way, it is known about 2 abandoned T-90Ms, for some reason they don’t talk about it here.
      First:

      Second:
    6. bk316
      bk316 23 September 2022 11: 57
      0
      Previously, opinions were on VO, discussions, comments were often more interesting than articles - but now only "Urya!" and "Zrada!" ...

      That's it Sergey, solid balabolstvo.
      In the absence of facts, they simply invent them (like Vladimir about the absence of an order), of course I don’t understand the fog of war, BUT why do we need to engage in balabolism?
    7. SincerityX
      SincerityX 26 September 2022 08: 58
      0
      I understand everything, but I don’t believe that the ENTIRE crew went to repair it, sorry. In any case, at least one should have remained on patrol in the shell. And even one with a remote machine gun could fight.
  9. valera75
    valera75 23 September 2022 06: 30
    +3
    Quote: your1970
    The fact that the crew stupidly has NOTHING to undermine the tank, then that it could run out of fuel / jam the engine - it’s not just that the VSUshniks dragged it, then the crew could die all at the time of repairing the caterpillar - when they dragged the caterpillar in one burst, you can put them It was -
    no, it's not up for discussion.
    Then immediately anger - "Betrayed, sold!!" which strongly resembles the enemy with his "Zrada!!".

    Previously, opinions were on VO, discussions, comments were often more interesting than articles - but now only "Urya!" and "Zrada!" ...

    So there are 0 more comments that they could have been killed or taken prisoner during the repair of the tank. Only betrayal, sale for the purpose of profit and other heresy. Well, maybe during mobilization these unfortunate warriors will show and then tell us how to fight by personal example.
  10. Architect
    Architect 23 September 2022 06: 43
    -1
    I think that just when the caterpillar broke, the military abandoned it and moved away.
    Apparently there was no order to blow up, but there are no fools to repair under bullets.
    Well, then they couldn’t beat it off.
    It is not clear why, if he was so secret, they did not cover him with artillery or the same Iranian martyr.
  11. fiberboard
    fiberboard 23 September 2022 06: 46
    +1
    They were in a hurry to see ,, Khvardeytsy ,,. It would be interesting to know where the recruitment to the glorious Kantamirov and Taman divisions comes from? It was necessary to put a crew of Siberians or Transbaikalians in this tank. Those, of course, are not as smart as Muscovites, but they are taught how to handle technology. In general, in my opinion, the methods of periodic massacre during training have a better effect on the assimilation of the material and the concentration of attention of students during the educational process.
  12. Graz
    Graz 23 September 2022 06: 52
    0
    The unit that gave the newest tank to the enemy should be punished, namely, all new tanks should be removed from them and transferred to a more heroic unit, and let these go on junk.
    The crews had to be taught to destroy equipment in case of a threat of its capture and provided with special means for this.
    The same hanging containers for aircraft with secret equipment, well, I don’t believe that it was impossible to do them with a self-destruct system, for example, from the pilot’s manual command, or when the pilot ejected.
    In the end, at least with some kind of beacon it was necessary to supply this equipment so that it was possible to strike on the ground at the place where the wreckage was
    1. your vsr 66-67
      your vsr 66-67 26 September 2022 10: 58
      +1
      I won’t say, but during my service in the Air Force, there was an SRO (aircraft radio transponder) on the planes, it seems they called them “Rose”. A lot of time has passed, so I might be wrong. Why at the very beginning did he say ... "I will not approve"?. Here's why. This block was secret. And the pilots had an "Explosion" button, a button under a safety cap. And this unit was also mounted on squibs that exploded when the plane hit the ground if the crew left the plane! This I learned from the crew members. And so it was or not, I will not say! If I'm wrong, knowledgeable people will correct me. I know for sure that when this unit was dismantled (I even know where it stood on AN 12), then all the crew members from the plane were escorted to the parking lot! Only specialists in "Rose" remained on the plane!
  13. NSV
    NSV 23 September 2022 09: 00
    -3
    I wonder if the crew was punished?! How it was necessary to run ... Shameful, guardsmen ...
    1. Cympak
      Cympak 23 September 2022 11: 17
      0
      Without an order to destroy the car, it will be deliberate damage to military property. Ask the question of the MO: there is a corresponding order to destroy equipment at the risk that it will go to the enemy or not. And how the military prosecutor's office evaluates the destruction of military property in practice in this case.
      Only after that it will be possible to blame the crew for something.
  14. north 2
    north 2 23 September 2022 09: 19
    0
    The tank is listed on the inventory register not of the Ministry of Defense, but of a specific tank division. And the division commander, in my opinion, had to issue his order to the division, what should the crew of the immobilized tank do so that the newest Russian tank would not fall into the hands of the enemy. The fact that the latest MLRS "Katyusha" during the Second World War did not fall into the hands of the enemy was hardly taken care of by the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. This was taken care of by the commander of the unit in which the specific vehicle was located.
    Now the question is complicated, Why did the entire crew, if no one was wounded, leave the car and go looking for help to evacuate the tank. Why not one, because two had to stay to protect the car and blow it up in the event of an obvious danger that the tank would fall into the hands of the enemy. Crews "Katyusha" and acted ...
    I also want to say that such articles should be written only with a guarantee that such a case actually happened. After all, how would the commander of a tank division and all his tankers look at such a publication, if not a single T-90M tank fell into Ukrainian hands. There is an information war going on and there are thousands of fake news attacks every day. And the experience of the commanders of the Katyusha units, so that the weapons do not fall into the hands of the enemy, must be taken into account ...
    1. your1970
      your1970 23 September 2022 10: 02
      0
      Quote: north 2
      what would the latest Russian tank
      how old are these tanks. They are the newest in terms of the SLA, no more
      Quote: north 2
      blow it up in case of obvious danger
      - what to undermine???? This is not a Katyusha with a wooden cabin...
    2. DrVintorez
      DrVintorez 23 September 2022 12: 27
      -1
      I'm crazy about comments. the crew was almost put up against the wall. not knowing what happened to the crew. they may not be alive anymore! Investigators without exception, motherfucker.
      where did the information come from, and even so fundamentally given that "Why did the entire crew, if no one was wounded, leave the car and go look for help to evacuate the tank" well, where?!?!?
    3. Cympak
      Cympak 23 September 2022 20: 47
      +1
      It is quite reasonable to mention the fact that Western analysts actively studied, like all changes in the Russian armed forces, and gave assessments of the mobilization capabilities of the Russian Federation.

      Below you can find a brief quote from one of the studies of the legendary "think tank" RAND Corporation:

      “Former Russian senior officials and analysts interviewed by the RAND Corporation in 2017 unanimously rejected the idea of ​​orienting the Russian armed forces towards waging large ground wars with peers. A decade of reform and modernization has allowed the military to effectively conduct limited expeditionary operations, while modernization at the other end of the spectrum has kept Russia's strategic nuclear forces secure on land, in the air, and in sea bastions. The Russian military leadership appears to regard the prospect of a major conventional war as unlikely.

      Without an operational reserve, Russian forces are more vulnerable than NATO forces in a protracted conflict. If Russia finds itself embroiled in a major conventional war, it will only be able to fight with the military forces that Moscow has at the time the conflict starts. The "hordes" of the Red Army are long gone, and the current personnel system has not yet created a reliable replacement ... ".

      Comments, I think, are unnecessary.

      I will only emphasize the not very funny fact that American analysts are much better aware of the real state of affairs in the Russian Federation than the Russian "expert environment", which has been demonstrating complete unsuitability for their own country for 8 years now.

      What army are you talking about? For the division commander to independently decide on the destruction of military property? He wants to live until his military pension and have his own house by the river.
      In reality, the destruction of equipment requires an order from above and compliance with the conditions in order to fend off military prosecutors.
  15. NERV
    NERV 23 September 2022 09: 40
    -2
    Quote: Per se.
    Who are the main culprits here, with our buy and sell, where raw materials were briskly traded and Soviet military developments. Who is to blame that the SVO began as a gamble, that the Bandera people were preparing for 8 years after 2014, and we, as it turns out, wanted to take Kyiv on a gop-stop?

    The question is sacramental. I think you know the answer. In a non-state, one person is responsible for everything.
  16. AlexeyEg
    AlexeyEg 23 September 2022 10: 21
    0
    What will the Americans find interesting in this tank? Never mind. Everything has been known for a long time. How to make coatings that absorb IR, like coatings from radio waves. It is even possible that our specialists read about all this in scientific American journals, according to which, by the way, they defended their candidate and doctoral dissertations.
    1. Graz
      Graz 23 September 2022 10: 30
      +3
      if nothing new is found. they will have an idea about the technical level of the Russian Federation in the field of tank building, know our approaches, strengths and weaknesses
  17. air wolf
    air wolf 23 September 2022 10: 36
    -4
    Stop carrying a snowstorm, all military equipment has such a "reset everything" button, and a tank is just a piece of iron, even with all sorts of capes, body kits, the main thing is software ...
  18. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 23 September 2022 10: 46
    -2
    They will be taken to the training ground and fired with BOPS.
  19. Sawa
    Sawa 23 September 2022 11: 02
    0
    Well, I painted everything that could be useful to Amerza, for studying
  20. RusGr
    RusGr 23 September 2022 11: 13
    0
    But was it not that someone for the abandoned equipment was paid from the other side so that it was left in good order.
  21. iouris
    iouris 23 September 2022 11: 17
    0
    Again no one is to blame? Is it by itself?
    Why wasn't the tank destroyed? And yes, it was badly disguised. Reprimand with entry.
  22. Wbond
    Wbond 23 September 2022 11: 43
    0
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    military personnel are simply afraid of punishment.

    ... punishments for what? ... for leaving military equipment to the enemy or destroying it without an order? .... do you really need an order from above, these are the basics! (as you yourself say) ... this level of training of fighters , cowardice and a general mess in the command, primarily of the lower and middle levels ...
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 23 September 2022 13: 17
      -1
      Nothing now 300k will come who promise to cook for a whole month and fix everything.
    2. iouris
      iouris 23 September 2022 15: 24
      +1
      This is a professional army. You have to look at what they have in the terms of the contract. The Soviet schoolboy did not have to be explained how to act in such cases. But there are no more Soviet schoolchildren in the army.
  23. acetophenone
    acetophenone 23 September 2022 11: 48
    +2
    Leave the tankers alone. They didn’t burn out in this tank - they will burn out in the next one. It is necessary to deal with those who dried up the offensive's coming out. Because as they loved this, they will love the next. And as much as possible - they will not receive another star for this. They won't get it right away.
  24. Graduate engineer
    Graduate engineer 23 September 2022 11: 58
    +2
    On potential damage to the defense industry as a result of weapons and equipment getting to the enemy. The author designated it as follows: sight, cape, improved armor.
    And most importantly, he did not name what all NATO intelligence services are after - ammunition for the new 125-mm T-90M cannon.
  25. usm5
    usm5 23 September 2022 11: 58
    +1
    In war, anything can happen. But the most shameful thing is that the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation did not give a public assessment of what happened, and therefore public opinion is negative in relation to its leadership. In the end, this faulty tank could be destroyed with the help of aircraft. Of course, the principles of military secrecy are respected with respect to the NMD, but these principles do not apply to information that has become public knowledge. This event, as well as the death of the cruiser Moskva, must be given a public assessment, the perpetrators (if any) and the measures taken to further prevent and punish them should be announced.
  26. Lis_Domino
    Lis_Domino 23 September 2022 12: 26
    +4
    T62 64 is taken from conservation and T90 is abandoned.
  27. Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers
    Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers 23 September 2022 12: 47
    -1
    https://topwar.ru/202055-pochemu-brosili-t-90m-v-ukrainskom-lesu.html#comment-id-12879938
  28. mmaxx
    mmaxx 23 September 2022 12: 52
    +4
    Court division. parade warriors. Parades are not to be proud of.
    Even the grenades were spared. Not to mention the solarium canister.
  29. Seamaster
    Seamaster 23 September 2022 12: 57
    +3
    At the beginning of the Second World War, a lot of armored vehicles were also abandoned, both forcedly and out of cowardice. But there, at least the shutters of the guns were removed, the machine guns, the riflemen were taken away. Later they began to shoot even those who had abandoned their rifles during the retreat. And, you know, it helped. Interestingly, and for those who threw this tank intact - will they give a medal or only legal 250 thousand rubles a month?
  30. Seamaster
    Seamaster 23 September 2022 13: 01
    0
    I remember reading that the best tank ace of the Das Reich regiment fought on a captured T-34. Destroyed 65 Soviet tanks. I wonder how many Russian tanks this abandoned T-90 with a Ukrainian crew will destroy? I think, unlike our heroes, the ho-ho-licks will have someone who can pull the caterpillar?
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      Dmitry_Likhoded 23 September 2022 16: 47
      +2
      The tank ace you wrote about is Emil Seybold. He fought from the very beginning of the war, first on the StuG III, then on the Pz.IV. He fought on the captured T-34 for less than a month (July 1943) and claimed only a few Soviet tanks during this period, he won the rest of the victories on German materiel ..
  31. AdAstra
    AdAstra 23 September 2022 13: 21
    -2
    Is it true how the old 62s are being transported from the warehouses, proving that they are still hoo, and the new 90s are being abandoned? Do those who left him then want to fight on the 62nd?
    1. Seamaster
      Seamaster 23 September 2022 14: 15
      +2
      Those who abandoned him do not want to fight either on the 90th or on the 62nd. He wants to live in a hostel of a division near Moscow, not to do shit, drink beer and receive a contract soldier's salary, which is 2 times higher than an engineer's salary.
      1. bodzu
        bodzu 24 September 2022 13: 41
        -1
        Exactly, such "warriors" definitely have neither conscience nor intelligence, just a special department will figure out such people at once, then an investigation and at least compensation for the lost material part and, at the maximum, a criminal sentence for transferring equipment to the enemy.
  32. An K-s
    An K-s 23 September 2022 14: 36
    0
    Here everyone writes that it was necessary to throw a grenade into the tank turret. A question from the sofa, but did the tank crew have grenades? Thanks in advance for your replies.
    1. Igool
      Igool 24 September 2022 01: 38
      +1
      Quote: An K-s
      Here everyone writes that it was necessary to throw a grenade into the tank turret.



      It's a suicide club mocking the ignorant. When the ammunition is detonated, throwing a direct road to heaven, well, or to the bottom, if he did not deserve the light.
  33. Maks1995
    Maks1995 23 September 2022 16: 12
    -1
    Life is like that, not black and white.
    The tank hit, and? Anyone can list a lot of amazing things from life and news.
    First camouflaged, and then open Deliveries of solarium to Ukraine in front of Z.
    So what? "We must rejoice" - used to say even earlier the GDP.
  34. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 23 September 2022 16: 41
    +2
    T-90M that fell into Ukrainian hands

    As a result of the actions of hucksters and traitors in the RF Armed Forces.
  35. AVESSALOM
    AVESSALOM 23 September 2022 16: 44
    -3
    Pure betrayal and an agreement. To judge the guilty by a tribunal. To deprive a part of the title "Guards".
  36. AVESSALOM
    AVESSALOM 23 September 2022 16: 57
    +2
    I read the comments and make sure that there is no such abomination for the Zaputints-companions that they could not justify under the pretext of "objectivity".
  37. Mr. One Two
    Mr. One Two 23 September 2022 17: 24
    -1
    When I see the abandoned technique, I just shake with anger and misunderstanding. There are too many of them for it to be a coincidence. Well, the tank is not coming, you have to leave, well, throw a grenade into the hatch. This is the basics. It's very sad to watch this. Peacetime army, not by vocation, but for a salary.
    1. your1970
      your1970 23 September 2022 23: 03
      0
      Quote: Mister One Two
      Well, the tank is not coming, you have to leave, well, throw a grenade into the hatch. This is the basics.
      and there will be nothing to bury. At the same time..
      And if the BC immediately explodes, how much time will you have time to bounce?? 2 meters? 5?
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 26 September 2022 00: 35
        +1
        Quote: your1970
        and there will be nothing to bury. At the same time..
        And if the BC immediately explodes, how much time will you have time to bounce?? 2 meters? 5?

        You just don't know how to blow up a tank with a grenade. First, you dig a trench about 60 meters from the tank. Then you open the hatch of the tank and retreat to the trench. From there you throw a grenade into the hatch and jump into the trench. Tank destroyed.
  38. alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 23 September 2022 18: 13
    0
    Tracking the Hekhel trophy for reconnaissance will not be difficult. And let the iskander fly there .. Well, or geranium feel
  39. true
    true 23 September 2022 18: 55
    0
    And will anyone say if there is any instruction at all, some kind of algorithm, how to destroy a tank in such a situation? Stupidly throwing a grenade into the hatch is not an option, you won’t have time to escape. Have you seen vidos with the detonation of ammunition? The safe distance is 100 meters, I think, and in cover. I served on the T 80 in the SGV 88-90. We were not taught anything like that ...
  40. Andrey A
    Andrey A 23 September 2022 19: 18
    -1
    The authors are only retelling the fantasies of the Ukrainian trolls... If there was something, the tank would have already been shown in the United States to both the military and journalists... Well, of course: a clear example of the Ukrainian "counterattack"... Meanwhile, everything is deaf, like in a tank ... Although almost two weeks have passed since the "loss" of the car ... Well, where is this T-90M, fell into the gap? If everything was as described, Biden would now cut circles around the tank and try to understand: where is his door ... And the entire world press would show them to us: both Biden and T-90M.
  41. Roman Efremov
    Roman Efremov 23 September 2022 19: 38
    +1
    I didn’t see in the article what they say overseas ..............................
    Here in the comments they raised the question of whether it is possible to destroy a tank by throwing a grenade into the hatch of the tower (opinions differed). A few days ago, a video from a drone was shown on TV, in which our fighter throws a grenade into the hatch of an abandoned Ukrainian tank. He jumps off and manages to run away before a fountain of fire from burning charges begins to break out of the hatch.
    Perhaps this will not work with the T-90M - there the AZ is covered with an armored floor, the charges in it may not ignite (and there are no other charges in the tower - they are removed into a niche), they will first need to be removed from the AZ and put higher.
    I'm not a tanker, these are all assumptions, but if you set out to destroy an abandoned tank, I don't see any problems.
  42. Altmann
    Altmann 23 September 2022 20: 03
    -3
    I'm trying to understand the soul of those young tankers, in every army there should be a senior non-commissioned officer in a larger team, an officer who commands and is responsible, I understand that three approximately the same old (young) tankmen could not do this. I wouldn't blame them, but if the tank commander was an elderly soldier, they would know what to do. It is a pity that Russian technicians participated in the development of the tank and everything was lost. am
  43. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 23 September 2022 20: 21
    -2
    Can the crew of the abandoned tank talk to the journalists and ask them questions? I don’t want to blame the guys for all the sins, not knowing what happened there. If they just draped, avoiding small arms combat and capture with a superior enemy and there was not a minute to blow up the tank, then this is for military prosecutors. And if there is any other reason - let them voice it. It's interesting.
  44. George Koval
    George Koval 23 September 2022 20: 35
    -1
    Yes, really ... Understand in detail and punish the perpetrators. Nothing can justify our secret technology falling into the hands of the enemy...
  45. Dost
    Dost 23 September 2022 20: 58
    -1
    The Ukrainians with the recruitment of flyers did not fail, but with the tankers it went off with a bang. Those campaign received the loot and threw in the agreed place.
  46. Codett
    Codett 23 September 2022 21: 33
    0
    Well, at that moment, Pavel Milyukov’s tragic saying sounded in my head: “What is this - stupidity or treason”
  47. Locksmith 54
    Locksmith 54 23 September 2022 21: 44
    0
    To judge by wartime, both the crew and the sofa commanders.
  48. EMMM
    EMMM 23 September 2022 21: 49
    0
    Here's something that tells me latently, isn't this a fake?
    Possession of such an advanced tank is yet another stroke of luck for Ukraine and its NATO allies in a long chain of unexpected finds (here is a link to the discovery of the wreckage of a Su-30SM along with a RTU518-PSM container).

    Sending a missing link to a completely unrelated post.
    Phrase
    There is a good chance that the captured T-90M, also known as Proryv-3, will eventually fall into the hands of NATO allies.
    characterizes the author quite well.
    Well, this maxim "At the moment, it is not entirely clear to what extent Ukraine shares intelligence information with the United States and other partners, although, apparently, there are channels through which such data is received. It is very likely that even samples are transferred to the United States captured Russian equipment." puts the last points over "i".
    The author did not even bother to look at Wiki for the model of the gun mounted on the tank.
    As a result: information may someday appear on the video "Abrams", which for some reason, contrary to the author's signature, did not lose the caterpillar, and the idea that the Armed Forces of Ukraine could possibly hand over the trophy to the ZP (stars and stripes).
    Here it is only according to Stanislavsky: "I do not believe!"
  49. The comment was deleted.
  50. barbos
    barbos 24 September 2022 00: 22
    +6
    The comments are just fire. It’s a pity that this napalm can’t be poured into barrels and thrown over that front line))
    What is there in general so secret in this iron zugunder? Friend or foe recognition system, ZAS, some special grade of steel, last-day rocket launch codes, a real map of Treasure Island, an iPhone 15, a flask with real red mercury?
    Almost two-thirds of all comments are about what kind of rags and sykuns those tankers are. But why do all the victorious heroes sit on their sofas in cozy apartments, and not there at the front show by personal example how to repair tracks under fire and blow up ammunition with the help of RGD-5? I don’t remember that in addition to personal weapons in the form of an assault rifle and a headset, something else was included in the combat equipment of tankers.
    In terms of the sum of technologies and the complexity of the units, this model of the tank does not at all live up to a modern imported car. The most difficult thing in terms of production in a tank is a gun. Everything else is quite primitive in terms of design and manufacturing complexity. Just don't tell respected welders about the difficulties of welding thick steel sheets. At Atommash, reactors are made from exotic corrosion-resistant steel 20 cm thick, which must work for decades at a pressure of 150 atm, a temperature of 500 degrees and hard radiation, from which it swells over time. Quietly, without pathos, masterpieces of engineering are brewed. Any node of a modern passenger car (foreign car) more than surpasses a similar tank one in terms of complexity and manufacturability. If we compare this tank and the Ka-50 helicopter, then the level of labor costs and complexity of all the ingenuity of tank units does not lie next to the engines of this helicopter. It is not yet known what is more difficult - a tank gun or an engine blade. But for some reason, no one poured mud on the helicopter pilots when they miraculously landed a car shot down from a MANPADS and left it. And there, in addition to engines, a sophisticated swashplate, there is a lot of any other equipment.
    It is high time for ground vehicles to move to an open architecture. How did the Americans. Now it is not very difficult to understand and understand how a thing is made, but how to make it is another story. Many have iPhones, it is not difficult to disassemble and understand how it works. But how to repeat it?
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 24 September 2022 08: 55
      0
      . At Atommash, reactors are made from exotic corrosion-resistant steel 20 cm thick, which must work for decades at a pressure of 150 atm, a temperature of 500 degrees and hard radiation, from which it swells over time. Quietly, without pathos, masterpieces of engineering are brewed.

      I know good welders at Atommash firsthand, I worked with them. But ... at UralVagonZavod, welded towers for the T-90M are bursting at the seams, there are rather weak welding specialists, home-grown, but when they are given advice to try argon-arc processing of multi-pass welds, they arrogantly refuse.
      1. barbos
        barbos 24 September 2022 21: 00
        0
        So maybe that's why there are so many angry comments? From the fact that the enemy will see how it is done)
    2. nikanikolich
      nikanikolich 24 September 2022 22: 20
      0
      Krasava, I can’t laugh, but I’m a stupid person who ran into tankers, handed over - handed over!, but it turns out there’s nothing to hand over Yeah. either I'm so beautiful, or a mirror .........