Military Review

Carlisle Castle: A History Through the Ages

194
Carlisle Castle: A History Through the Ages
Carlisle Castle. Modern look




“I like to go to medieval castles:
Their gloomy silence pleases my heart,
I love the sharp rise of their black-gray roofs,
Gloomy battlements on towers and gates,
Squares of glass in lead bindings,
Niche openings, where the unknown hand
I cut the saints and warriors for centuries"

T. Gauthier. "Middle Ages". Cup. Ballads, tales, legends. M, 1958, p. 53

Ancient castles and fortresses. There are castles, which, despite their formidable appearance, almost never participated in hostilities. And there are those who are "lucky" to be in their center for a number of centuries. And even today something "military" remains in them. One such castle in England is Carlisle Castle. We will talk about it today...


Carlisle Castle. View from above. The well-preserved donjon is clearly visible, the Captain's tower with a semicircular battery, two lonely cannons on the wall on the right

The Romans have come, the Romans have gone


And it so happened that in 72 AD, on the site of this castle, the Romans had already built a large fort, though not stone, but in the typical Roman tradition - from turf and wood. He provided support for the garrisons stationed on Hadrian's Wall and for the troops sent to fight in Scotland. As happened very often, the fort became the core of a prosperous city called Luguvalium, and this city itself, by the middle of the XNUMXnd century AD, had become one of the most important military bases in Roman Britain.


Hadrian's Wall, preserved to this day, the stability of which was supposed to be a fort in Carlisle

But then the Romans left. But Carlisle remained and, very possibly, even became the capital of the Romano-British kingdom of Reged. In the XNUMXth century, it is quite possible that the abbey was founded by the kings of Northumbria, which became one of the religious centers of the country.

The castle changes owners...


The first castle in Carlisle was built by King William II the Red (r. 1087-1100) over the remains of the first Roman fort after defeating the local commander Dolphin in 1092. He appreciated the fact that this place was only 16 kilometers from the Scottish border, which means by fortifying it, he could always use this castle as a base for an invasion of Scotland.


Reconstruction of Carlisle Castle as it may have looked around 1400. © Historical England (illustrated by Liam Wales)

However, the very first castle, most likely, was a simple fence made of earth and wood, but with a deep moat, for protection from the south. Then came the time of Henry I Beauclerk (r. 1100-1135), who visited Carlisle in 1122 and ordered "fortify it with a castle and towers". The construction of the stone fortress proceeded rather slowly; work was still going on in 1130.


David I and Malcolm IV (miniature from a manuscript in Carlisle Castle)

As soon as Henry I died, in 1135 Carlisle was captured by David I, King of Scotland (r. 1124-1153), and ... also began to build a "very strong fortress" here. Most likely, he completed the work begun by Henry I, but, nevertheless, the question of dating the castle remains open to this day.

Henry II of England (r. 1154-1189) visited Carlisle in 1186 and ordered the construction of "palace» complex in the courtyard. The construction of the castle was continued by King John (r. 1199-1216), so that the construction there, one might say, went almost continuously.


What has been preserved from those distant years? The donjon, the “big tower”, has been preserved, which today is both the largest and most impressive part of the castle

Together with the gatehouse, this is at the same time the earliest surviving part of the castle, although its interior has changed over the centuries in the most serious way, and the roof was removed from the donjon in the XNUMXth century.


Samuel Bowe (1822–1878) "Edenside Cricket Match", Carlisle 1912

Sieges and battles


In 1296, King Edward I Longshanks (r. 1272-1307) made Carlisle his headquarters for three months in the early stages of his war against the Scots. The inner chamber, which by that time already housed a large hall, was expanded to accommodate his courtyard. In 1308, a residential tower, known as the Tower of Queen Mary, was rebuilt in the castle, and it immediately became more comfortable to live in.


An octagonal stair tower that once gave access to the Queen Mary Tower. The tower itself was demolished in 1825

The Scots, naturally, did not like a strong fortress at their borders, and they besieged both the city itself and the castle as many as seven times between 1173 and 1461. One of the most decisive sieges was launched in 1315 by Robert the Bruce, King of Scotland, who had previously defeated the English at the Battle of Bannockburn. But no matter how hard they tried, they could not take the castle.


Gate leading to the castle


Entrance gate. Outside gatehouse

The siege of 1461 was one of the bloodiest episodes of the War of the Scarlet and White Roses, in which the houses of Lancaster and York fought for the English throne. The combined army of Lancastrians and Scots finally managed to recapture the castle from the Yorkists, and thanks to the early use (as reported by the British annals) of artillery. However, the winners did not destroy its towers and walls, so thanks to this, many structures of that time have survived to this day.


You can find out what rooms were in the donjon here ...

"Stormy Ages": XV and XVI


In the 1483th and 1485th centuries Anarchy reigned in England. The border clans no longer felt the firm hand of the king and went about their favorite business: they began to settle local scores and rob those who were weaker. In order to somehow establish a peaceful life, the border region was divided into three "marks", which were assigned to the Lord Warders, who were representatives of the English crown. Carlisle Castle became the seat of the Lord Keeper of the West Mark, and among the famous figures who held this position was Richard, Duke of Gloucester, later known as Richard III (r. XNUMX-XNUMX), who lost the battle of Bosworth and lost his field and crown , and life.

Henry VIII (r. 1509-1547) ordered to check the defenses of Carlisle and, if necessary, to strengthen the castle. The result was the largest castle building campaign since the XNUMXth century, led by the Moravian engineer Stefan von Haschenperg. The castle received cannons mounted on it in various places, the thickness of the inner walls of the chamber was increased, and a closed battery was built in front of the Captain's Gate.


The captain's tower, and in front of it is a battery. Initially, the battery was high enough off the ground that its cannons could fire on the outer fence, but in the XNUMXth century so much earth was piled around it that it was lower than its level!


Today she looks like this. See how she's sunk into the ground

Carlisle - residence of Queen Mary


When Mary, Queen of Scots (d. 1587) fled from her rebellious subjects to England in May 1567, she was placed for several weeks in the Watcher's Tower, in the southeast corner of the courtyard. So for the last time the castle became a royal residence. Maintaining her small court cost Queen Elizabeth I (r. 1558-1603) an average of £56 a week, which was spent on food and wine.


Captain's tower, view from the courtyard. The graceful pattern above the gate is a rare example of the decor of the castle of the XIV century

Castle during the Civil War


Carlisle Castle lost its military importance after the unification of England and Scotland in 1603. But when a civil war began in the country in 1642, it increased again, and they began to fight for its possession.


Many rooms in the castle resemble prison cells.

Carlisle, which was garrisoned by Royalists in 1642, was one of the few places in the north that remained loyal to the king after the defeat of his main northern army at Marston Moor in July 1644. Therefore, already in October of the same year, an army of parliamentarians surrounded Carlisle and besieged it, hoping to starve the city to death.


Inside the donjon there were four floors, three of which were residential, but in the thickness of the walls there were pantries, stairs and latrines.

The siege continued until the spring of 1645. Food began to run out: all the horses were eaten, then it was time for dogs and rats. But after the defeat of the royalists at the Battle of Naesby in June 1645, there were no hopes for salvation, and on June 25 the city surrendered.


One of the castle's spiral staircases

Last siege


The city and the castle were again in the spotlight during the second Jacobite rising in 1745-1746, when an attempt was made to restore the exiled Stuarts to the throne. Prince Charles Edward Stewart (d. 1788) led his army south, reaching Carlisle on November 9, 1745. Five days later, the city and castle surrendered.

The Jacobite army then moved south, but, finding no support, deployed to Derby. On 20 December he retreated across the border to Scotland, leaving a garrison of 400 men at Carlisle Castle to hold off the pursuit of an English army led by the Duke of Cumberland, who took the castle in its tenth and final siege. The British artillery was at its best, so that it was already possible to capture it on December 30, 1745.


Plan of the Siege of Carlisle by the army of the Duke of Cumberland, begun on December 21, 1745. After the siege, many Jacobite soldiers were imprisoned in the castle, and nine of them were executed on October 18, 1746.

Army barracks and ... a monument


After 1746, the castle gradually fell into a state of dormancy and neglect. At first, French prisoners of war were kept here. And in the 20s of the XIX century, Carlisle Castle became an army barracks. Little by little, it began to be completed and expanded with low buildings made of red brick.


Here they are!

In 1832, a hospital was built here, which is called "worst army hospital» to Britain.

The army continued to expand and develop castle buildings until the 1835th century. Moreover, over the years of active military use, many important historical sites have been destroyed or changed beyond recognition. For example, the Queen Mary Tower was demolished in 2000. And, although the castle has been transferred to the English Heritage Center since XNUMX, it still has several “military installations”, and, in particular, the Museum of Military History of Cumbria.


Here it is, this museum!

The mystery of castle graffiti


There are many interesting things to see in the castle. For example, a large fireplace, which has remained in it since the Middle Ages.


Some believe that the dimensions of the then fireplaces made it possible to put a seat in them and ... bask directly by the fire. But judging by the way this castle fireplace looks, it was possible to do this only at the risk of clothing and life!

On the second floor of the donjon there is another truly remarkable monument of that distant time. These are wall graffiti. Some are nothing more than scratches, while others are intricately carved and may be the work of one person.


Here is an explanation for them, but even if you enlarge it, translate it and read it, unfortunately, you won’t learn much about them. So the veil of secrecy will remain on them

The images are in relief, slightly recessed into the masonry, and are obviously randomly placed. Previously they were calledcarvings of prisoners”, but it is known that this room was not a prison, and if so, then a completely natural question arises - who cut them out and why?


The so-called "prisoner carvings" can be dated to around 1480, as they include the boar badge of Richard III and the white rose of the House of York.

The images contain the coats of arms of the House of York and the local families Dacre and Percy, which, together with some other details, indicate the year 1480. There are several religious icons, including a crucifix, "IHS" or the name of Christ, and a figure with a wheel that may be Saint Catherine. So, most likely, soldiers of the garrison or the household of the owner of the castle were engaged in this carving out of boredom, thus expressing loyalty to the lord overseer and influential local families.


There is also a place for those who like to take pictures near the old cannons…

Photos of the site english-heritage.org.uk were used for design
Author:
194 comments
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  1. tlauicol
    tlauicol 19 September 2022 06: 01
    +6
    Oh I love castles good
    graffiti of medieval convicts surprised)) it's not drawing sticks, and not "Vasya was here"
    1. depressant
      depressant 19 September 2022 07: 40
      +4
      Yes ... Graffiti seriously hurt. Skill and patience.
      Found images of aliens wassat )))
      Good gloomy morning, friends! )))
      1. ArchiPhil
        ArchiPhil 19 September 2022 08: 22
        +7
        Quote: depressant
        aliens

        I didn't notice. Oops. recourse
        Good morning Lyudmila Yakovlevna! hi
        "More carefully, it is necessary, more carefully ..." (c) bully
        1. depressant
          depressant 19 September 2022 08: 37
          +5
          Good morning, Sergey Vladimirovich! )))
          There, in the center of the photo, there is such a round face with eyes. There are no such people. And there are aliens wassat )))
          By the way, how is the weather in your Biryulyovo? Here, in the north-east of the Moscow Region, we have a decent hurricane, it came from the long-suffering Kursk province! Got there and howls like a wolf.
          1. ArchiPhil
            ArchiPhil 19 September 2022 08: 46
            +6
            Quote: depressant
            Biryulyovo

            They promised heavy rains and wind. But?
  2. Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 06: 01
    +13
    who cut them and why?
    British historians believe that these graffiti are the work of the guards of Mary, Queen of Scots. Now these "petroglyphs" have been manually cleaned from salt deposits, so that they can be better seen and they do not collapse. Engaged in the restoration of master Alex (most likely shortened from Alexander) Carrington.
    Some of the pictures are the coats of arms of the influential families of the district, who, apparently, bored medieval guards laughing were true. Some are relatively modern, left by soldiers in the 19th century (like DMB-1881 smile ) . It was very easy to scratch out even complex compositions in the red sandstone of the walls.
    Something like that.
    1. kalibr
      19 September 2022 06: 24
      +8
      Thanks for the interesting addition.
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 06: 26
        +7
        I haven't reached Carlisle yet sad . But I'm planning a weekend in November.
        1. kalibr
          19 September 2022 06: 44
          +5
          Then you have a museum of the regiment, which is available there. There are very interesting exhibits there and it may well turn out to be an interesting article about a foreign regiment. Still, there is information on the history of our regiments. But about theirs...
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 06: 47
            +6
            But about theirs.
            Planned to write a couple of articles yes , but the forum community for the most part will not read without mentioning Ukraine.
            1. depressant
              depressant 19 September 2022 07: 50
              +8
              Come on, Alex! I will read, write. The main thing, when you are in the castle, take as many pictures of graffiti as possible, even a video. The object is amazing in that it was made by non-specialists, and odds were given to specialists.
            2. ArchiPhil
              ArchiPhil 19 September 2022 08: 19
              +9
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              will not read

              Our "history" public will very much be. So what? Forward, for the pen! bully
              Hello Alex! hi
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 17: 14
                +3
                "history" chesky public
                Good day! My articles, although they are historical, come out in opinions for some reason.
            3. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 19 September 2022 10: 26
              +9
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              the forum community for the most part will not read without mentioning Ukraine.

              For me, the mention of Ukraine in the material is precisely the reason not to read further.
              So
              write, Shurochka, write

              smile
              There are few interesting and useful materials on VO.
            4. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 10: 42
              +9
              but the forum community for the most part will not read without mentioning Ukraine.

              Alexey, the majority of the forum community does not go to the "history" section. Write. Write for those who read, they will be grateful. By the way, many articles from VO are immediately reprinted on other sites. For example, enthusiasts from "Yaplakal" transfer materials from "Topvar" there.
            5. aakvit
              aakvit 21 September 2022 12: 01
              +1
              You are wrong, uncle! repeat And Hoch .. Davia is already gritting his teeth! fool It is necessary to finish there faster, got it already! am
              But an interesting article, as proposed, is very cool! hi
          2. saygon66
            saygon66 21 September 2022 21: 36
            0
            Allow me, gentlemen!
            - Almost every regiment of the British army has its own website, and some of them have an online museum... including those that were not lucky enough to survive during the numerous reforms. There is information on the existing ones on the official MOD website. A reverent attitude to regimental history, it is worth noting ... By the way, which regiment lodged in the Carlisle barracks?
            1. saygon66
              saygon66 21 September 2022 22: 06
              0
              Yes, here!
              - Border regiment.
              Quite a well-known unit with a rich history!
    2. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 19 September 2022 23: 19
      +1
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      Some of the pictures are coats of arms of influential families of the district


      It is interesting that the castle had petroglyphs and carved stone decorative details - but it never occurred to any of the kings and their engineers to utilitarianly, rationally and centrally use the walls and vaults of the castle for cartography of adjacent territories - to cut out a set of thematic maps of the area during their construction to help the garrison, which from this area he lived and which he defended. Along the way, it would be possible to place materials for teaching military affairs, construction, counting, writing, astronomy and navigation, as well as some useful skills and knowledge.
      1. Repellent
        Repellent 19 September 2022 23: 25
        +6
        Quote: ycuce234-san
        Along the way, it would be possible to place materials for teaching military affairs, construction, counting, writing, astronomy and navigation, some useful skills and knowledge

        ... like: making a pate of horse and hazel grouse. In case of a long siege. The horse can be, including, dead ...

        Inspired request
      2. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 23: 35
        +4
        some useful skills and knowledge.
        Brewing ale and distilling gin yes
        cartography of adjacent territories
        The locals knew her like the back of their hand - these are not modern townspeople with Googlemaps on their phones.
        1. ycuce234-san
          ycuce234-san 20 September 2022 07: 34
          +2
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          The locals knew her like the back of their hand.


          Did not know. Back then, the limits of people's mobility were different. And, for example, the castle had to operate with a cash garrison, cooperate with other distant forces and fortifications. Tritely, the soldiers changed and arrived from other remote places and in a new place they were not oriented with their feet. Therefore, for land fortresses, it makes little sense to have maps of the area within a radius of 100 km, and for riverside and seaside fortresses, 500 km, including maps and sailing directions for sailors, since then very long distances were already covered by water.
          Well, for study, architects could build sapper towns and small model fortifications.
          1. saygon66
            saygon66 22 September 2022 12: 55
            0
            - smile "In much knowledge and much sorrow" - so it seems?
            - It's amazing that not a single swear word in English ...
            1. ycuce234-san
              ycuce234-san 22 September 2022 19: 41
              0
              Well, this is due to high religiosity and illiteracy.
              People of atheistic times miss this.
              In those days, a person could speak / understand several languages, but often could not write and counted orally (he counted money).
              Therefore, the maps and plans of the castle applied by the builders on the walls and floors would be very useful, since they are accessible to the masses and did not require knowledge of writing, as well as scale models of the terrain and buildings on it. The technologies themselves for this were already in the form of mosaics, frescoes and stone carvings. Yes, and there was probably a set-atlas of ordinary parchment or paper maps - it is needed for any defense and construction.
              By the way, about mobility - then it reminded the masses of the idea of ​​​​geography among motorists and did not depart from highways and roads.
              1. saygon66
                saygon66 22 September 2022 20: 27
                0
                Hmm... Mobility! Walking to the Holy Land - isn't that mobility? smile
  3. kalibr
    19 September 2022 06: 51
    +7
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    but the forum community for the most part will not read without mentioning Ukraine.

    Well, he reads mine. And you write well ... Write, for example, about the monument to animals participating in wars. With your photos. And then usually all his pictures were published ...
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 06: 57
      +6
      animal participants in wars.
      In Hyde Park? I'll try to do it.
      1. kalibr
        19 September 2022 07: 02
        +6
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        In Hyde Park?

        Exactly there. I was impressed by the inscription, I even inserted it into my novel "Three from Ensk" - "They had no choice."
        1. ArchiPhil
          ArchiPhil 19 September 2022 08: 30
          +9
          Quote: kalibr
          "They didn't have a choice."

          What a sad epitaph!
          And truthful. They made a choice for them. hi
  4. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 07: 03
    +10
    The Scots, naturally, did not like a strong fortress at their borders, and they besieged both the city itself and the castle as many as seven times between 1173 and 1461. One of the most decisive sieges was launched in 1315 by Robert the Bruce, King of Scotland, who had previously defeated the English at the Battle of Bannockburn. But no matter how hard they tried, they could not take the castle.
    It worked at least once. In 1216, Carlisle was occupied by the Scottish king Alexander II.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. depressant
      depressant 19 September 2022 07: 55
      +6
      Good morning Anton! )))
      I join in gratitude to Vyacheslav Olegovich. The castle also surprised with a donjon. I used to think that the donjon is such a high round tower, by the way, not very massive, but here it is, what a structure!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 08: 12
        +9
        Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
        For comparison, the reconstruction of the keep of the Chateau Gaillard.
        1. depressant
          depressant 19 September 2022 08: 42
          +8
          Here! It's round! )))
          And here is such a powerful parallelepiped that I was even confused at first, they say, where is the donjon, well, not the same array ...
          As far as I understand, the donjons are intended to be something like a kid? Or no?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 19 September 2022 08: 46
            +10
            is it like a kid?
            Something like this, the last line of defense and originally the residential part of the castle.
        2. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 10: 44
          +8
          For comparison, the reconstruction of the keep of the Chateau Gaillard

          Is this the castle of Richard the Lionheart? Who hardly spoke English, and treated England like a piggy bank.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 19 September 2022 10: 49
            +7
            Yes, the construction cost of which is estimated at 15-20 thousand pounds sterling and which has not been in the possession of the English crown for 10 years.
          2. kalibr
            19 September 2022 12: 42
            +4
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            Castle of Richard the Lionheart

            "Jolly Castle" The place where Princess Margarita was strangled!
          3. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 16: 57
            +4
            hardly spoke English
            Local historians believe that he only spoke French and Occitan, and the first king whose native language was English was Henry 4th.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 19: 13
              +5
              Local historians believe that he only spoke French and Occitan, and the first king whose native language was English was Henry 4th.

              Bolingbroke, who threw off the pedaristic Richard II? This Richard was somehow unique in his inconsistency... what I watched the first episode of The Empty Crown. By the way, Richard is really played by a bugger... The word "bugger" is absolutely literary and scientific! (That's me, to my beloved administration! drinks ).
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 27
                +4
                Richard this was in something unique
                The fact that he loved Earl of Oxford (Richard De Vere)? There is no consensus, but it is believed that De Vere was simply not loved by his contemporaries, and such a rumor was started up by them.
                Bolingbroke
                So yes, that's him.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 20: 00
                  +4
                  There is no consensus, but it is believed that De Vere was simply not loved by his contemporaries, and such a rumor was started up by them.

                  Well, I personally didn’t hold a candle, but were any of Heinrich’s favorites executed?
                  1. Bolt cutter
                    Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 20: 09
                    +2
                    still executed
                    Pierce Gaveston? It seems to be for something else, he did not share something with the feudal lords.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 20: 42
                      +4
                      Pierce Gaveston? It seems to be for something else, he did not share something with the feudal lords.

                      This one was already a lover of Edward II. Insolent and burned, pederast. negative finished badly; but worse than him ended another lover of the desired Edward - Hugues le Despenser, Jr. Togo was really castrated, gutted and quartered ... No.
                      1. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 20: 50
                        +2
                        lover of the desired Edward
                        About whom in the annals of Newenham Abbey they wrote "the king fled with his husband" in 1326 wassat
                        finished worse than him
                        Yes, the dispenser ended extremely badly even for those times sad By the way, before the "trial" and execution, he tried to arrange a dry hunger strike, so as not to live to be dismantled for spare parts.
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 20: 53
                        +6
                        By the way, before the "trial" and execution, he tried to arrange a dry hunger strike, so as not to live to be dismantled for spare parts.

                        I didn’t know about it, Druon didn’t write about it! laughing
                        All in all, Hugh Jr. is one of the select few who ended up like this... belay
                      3. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 21: 01
                        +2
                        one of the chosen few who ended up like this.
                        He was unlucky with society and time sad In a Russian prison, I would live, not grieve, tea and cigarettes would not be transferred wassat .
      2. kalibr
        19 September 2022 08: 37
        +9
        Quote: depressant
        Round Tower

        As a rule, all early donjons were exactly square, and even with the addition of 4 towers along the edges, they became round in the 13th century.
      3. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 19 September 2022 10: 45
        +7
        Quote: depressant
        donjon is such a high round tower,

        This is a typical donjon of the late Middle Ages, since the XIV century.
        In general, there were no rules for building donjons, their main function is to ensure the most comfortable existence of the feudal lord and his family inside the castle. Well, an overview of the surroundings - the lady admires the sunrises and sunsets, and there is a sentry standing nearby and watching the surroundings - if the enemies are coming ...
        There is an opinion that they began to build round towers in connection with the advent of artillery, since this form is better opposed to cannonballs. Until the XNUMXth century including round towers - a comparative rarity, although they come across periodically.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 September 2022 13: 20
          +5
          Until the XNUMXth century including round towers - a comparative rarity, although they come across periodically.
          But I doubt that "inclusive"! The Conciergerie, the Grand Chatelet and the Nel Tower are examples of this.
          My respect, Michael!
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 19 September 2022 20: 06
            +3
            Good evening. hi smile
            Among the towers of the Volyn type, for example, there are also round ones, but most are still rectangular. Many were then rebuilt from rectangular to round ...
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 19 September 2022 20: 31
              +3
              And how long ago in Volyn, by that time they had switched from wood to stone? Even an octahedron is hard to build from a log.
              1. Fat
                Fat 20 September 2022 07: 49
                +1
                hi Hello Anton. I'm sorry, I'll correct it - the octagon. It is easier to fold an octahedron from logs; it is quite quadrangular in projection (top view from above) smile
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 20 September 2022 08: 03
                  +1
                  Hello Borisych!
                  That's right, you're right.
              2. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 20 September 2022 12: 26
                +1
                Almost all of the Volyn towers known to us are from the second half of the XNUMXth century. - early XIV. A connection with the Mongols suggests itself ... But, I think, as always, everything is more complicated. smile
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 20 September 2022 12: 33
                  +2
                  It is with the Mongols, not with Lithuania? Although apparently it is possible to calculate a potential enemy at the location of the towers.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 20 September 2022 14: 01
                    +2
                    From Turov to Galich.
                    The Lithuanian threat has been permanent since the time of the children of Vseslav Charodey. And the towers began to grow like mushrooms only after the arrival of the Mongols. However, the Lithuanian danger during this period increases many times - Mindovg appears on the historical arena. However, after the death of Mindovg, Lithuania plunges into chaos, and the towers continue to be built. No, it's not that simple. smile
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 20 September 2022 14: 12
                      +3
                      Looked at the information on the towers of the Volyn type. Yes, indeed, there are twice as many rectangular ones as round ones. However, two points are noteworthy:
                      1. Half of the rectangular ones are defined as stone-wood, respectively, the log top, most likely decided the geometry of the entire structure.
                      2. The time of construction of towers of both types is approximately the same, which indicates the simultaneous existence of two architectural and fortification solutions.
                      1. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 14: 21
                        +2
                        Round towers appeared in Europe in the XNUMXth century. What side is Volyn here, I can’t understand. Or is Volyn a trendsetter in European fortification?
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 14: 30
                        +2
                        What side is Volyn here, I can’t understand.
                        Possibly, Volhynia was influenced by western fortification architecture.
                      3. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 14: 39
                        +2
                        The article seems to be about an English castle, and the discussion is about the time when cylindrical donjons appeared in Europe. At least - the XII century. Maybe before, but nothing has been preserved. There are many cylindrical towers of the XNUMXth century.
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 15: 18
                        +2
                        I started this discussion in connection with Mikhail's statement yesterday that there were no cylindrical towers until the end of XIII and their appearance is presumably connected with the development of siege work and artillery. As a counterargument to the last point, I can offer the donjon of Narva Castle, donjons and some towers of the city wall of Rhodes, the tower of St. Olaf in Vyborg. This is from what I have seen.
                      5. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 17: 30
                        +3
                        As a counterargument to the last point, I can offer ... from what I saw myself.


                        Chateau de Falaise. True, the construction of the tower was completed in 1207, but started at the end of XII.

                        And this is Château de Walhain-Saint-Paul in Belgium. Here historians have not yet come to a consensus - either the end of the XI century, or the beginning of the XII. But that no later than the first quarter of the XII century - for sure.
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 17: 50
                        +2
                        Beautiful!
                        True, judging by the armored belt, Falaise was originally two times lower ... But nothing, some great figures of the Middle Ages were not even born in such conditions. Recall at least a house in Domremy ...
                      7. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 18: 13
                        +1
                        Sources say that such a tower was originally. It was built in accordance with the architecture philippienne, formed during the time of Philip Augustus, a revolution in fortification, the main feature of which was just the round towers.
                      8. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 18: 22
                        +1
                        The fact that the round towers were pushed through by Philip Augustus, I have no doubt at all! But where did it come from?!
                      9. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 18: 30
                        +1
                        How from where? The Renaissance of the XII century, after all, it also affected militarism. People discovered Roman treatises.
                      10. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 18: 45
                        +1
                        Treatises are treatises, but specialists are needed, did they pull something out of Ireland?
                      11. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 18: 56
                        0
                        from Ireland that-whether pulled out?

                        Why from Ireland?
                      12. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 19: 00
                        0
                        Check out the Towers of Ireland. These malacholny were able to build concentric towers in the time of St. Columban
                      13. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 19: 29
                        +1
                        In England and continental Europe, cylindrical towers began to be built as early as the time of Anglo-Saxon architecture, before the Norman Conquest, from about the seventh century.
                      14. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 20: 06
                        +1
                        Well, what am I talking about? Early medieval Ireland outside the Anglo-Saxon culture?
                      15. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 20: 14
                        +1
                        In addition to the Irish, and even before them, such structures were built by the Angles with the Saxons, the inhabitants of the East Frans kingdom, Scandinavia and other different places. Therefore, there was no need to disturb the Irish.
                      16. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 20: 19
                        +1
                        Well, as far as I remember, from this continum, apart from the Scandinavians, even the foundation is a place for conjecture?
                      17. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 20 September 2022 20: 47
                        +2

                        Gatehouse of Lorsch Abbey near Worms. VIII century.
                      18. The comment was deleted.
                      19. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 18: 09
                        +1
                        And this is Château de Walhain-Saint-Paul
                        As for me, the normal manor of a baron of the middle of the XII century.
                      20. Fat
                        Fat 20 September 2022 16: 10
                        +2
                        Anthony really doesn't know. When the Volyn barons built castles. Interesting, I agree! They were on trend. But I don’t want to detail, accumulating ANYONE the information I don’t want. Although if I "torknet" I'll figure it out and ask the right questions. Half the question, half the answer. Especially when it comes to details..
                      21. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 16: 18
                        +2
                        Borisych, the Galician-Volyn society, due to the location of the principality, was largely integrated into Western culture. If you are interested, type in the site search engine: arturpraetor. This is the same Artyom that I mentioned, the author of a series of articles about the Galicia-Volyn principality.
                      22. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 20 September 2022 17: 02
                        +2
                        Digression: hello to forum users from Konstantin. Until Friday he on procedures.
                        I hope that on Saturday we will be able to return to traditional communication.
                      23. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 17: 05
                        +2
                        Hello, Sergey!
                        I know he called me today. He has a CT on Friday, but the results won't be until next week.
                      24. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 20 September 2022 17: 38
                        +2
                        Yes. Information converges. Unfortunately, I have a pandemonium now, and the conversation came out short.

                        Nothing, I hope on Saturday we will trample on something.
                      25. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 17: 53
                        +2
                        I hope your time trouble is coming to an end...
                      26. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 20 September 2022 21: 01
                        +1
                        All time pressures end at some point. The main thing is not to drop the flag.
                      27. Fat
                        Fat 20 September 2022 20: 59
                        +2
                        Yes, yes, yes ... Let there be Great Power (Scha ... Great Schwartz)
                        Stay with us, friends. Without... tricks
                        And so that every word is confirmed ....
                      28. Fat
                        Fat 21 September 2022 08: 16
                        +1
                        Received. Thanks Anton, I'll look through ...
                      29. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 20 September 2022 14: 53
                        +2
                        A couple of years ago I tried to deal with these towers - after all, such structures were not typical for Eastern Europe.
                        Pay attention to such moments. All of them were built on the territory under the rule of Daniel of Galicia and his descendants, or on dependent territories, such as the Turov-Pinsk land. The active construction of these towers began immediately after the departure of the Mongols. During the Mongol invasion, all major cities were taken and destroyed, but some small stone fortresses (Hill, Kremenets, something else) managed to resist. In Europe, the same picture - big cities perished, small castles were preserved.
                        I think that Prince Daniel Romanovich was quite capable of seizing this moment, summarizing the available information on the war against the Mongols in Russia and Europe, and making a quite logical conclusion in this case: it is necessary to build small but strong fortifications that can withstand a short energetic siege. On the model of Europe well known to him.
                        If there were funds and time, they would build full-fledged castles, but so they had to limit themselves to stone or almost stone towers, which, of course, were surrounded by wooden fortifications - ramparts, walls, etc.
                        Hence the rapid construction in the second half of the XNUMXth century. and the same unexpected curtailment of this construction at the beginning of the XIV century.
                        I see the picture like this.
                      30. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 15: 21
                        +2
                        A couple of years ago I tried to deal with these towers - after all, such structures were not typical for Eastern Europe.
                        Apparently, it was inspired by the discussion under the cycle of Artyom about the Galicia-Volyn principality?
                      31. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 20 September 2022 17: 27
                        +2
                        No, there was, if my memory serves me, an article about castles and there was also a discussion about round square towers. VN also took an active part there ...
                      32. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 17: 37
                        +1
                        I don't remember this, unfortunately...
                        But the Volyn towers are undoubtedly an interesting phenomenon. Interesting tactic. That is, if Daniel borrowed it from the Piasts and the Teutons, then the remains of the towers should be many times more, and if not, then what?
                      33. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 20 September 2022 20: 38
                        0
                        Piasts and Teutons built their castles for centuries before and after Daniel of Galicia. That's why there are so many of them. As soon as the GVK ceased to exist, this construction also ceased.
                        At the same time, it seems to me that the strategy of building small but well-fortified settlements is effective only with a high population density, which we obviously do not observe on the territory of Volyn, Galicia, and, moreover, the Turov-Pinsk lands.
                        My opinion is that the construction of such towers in the historical global aspect did not really justify itself in these territories, especially in the northern regions. There were local problems that they presented for their opponents, they had to be taken into account, but on the whole, it seems to me, they did not justify themselves.
                        It is possible, however, that simply the quantity did not turn into quality.
                        You see, this is how it is - in a small castle you can place only a small garrison, which, relying on this castle, will be able to control a small area. When there are many such castles and they are in close proximity to one another, as in Europe, the conqueror has a hard time - he is forced to consistently take these castles one by one, because he cannot completely control the territory in the immediate vicinity of them. And in the case of the Volyn towers, the distance between which was more than one day's journey, their garrisons could not significantly influence the course of hostilities. They couldn’t interfere with robbing the population, they couldn’t work effectively on the enemy’s communications, because they couldn’t move far from their bases ...
                        And neither Daniel nor his heirs could afford to build such towers in sufficient quantities.
                      34. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 20: 49
                        +1
                        So the Piasts and the Teutons built their wooden burghs in the same equestrian half-way! Perhaps Daniel tried to enlarge the practice, but experienced a crushing defeat from the era.
  5. Korsar4
    Korsar4 19 September 2022 07: 32
    +8
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Yet fire and stew are a source of comfort. Sometimes it has a need.
    1. depressant
      depressant 19 September 2022 08: 48
      +5
      Sergey... )))
      Good morning! Do you need food and warmth only... sometimes? Do you usually stay in the Empyrean? With heat and light, according to Thomas Aquinas, everything is in order there, but what about stew, huh? wassat )))
      1. ArchiPhil
        ArchiPhil 19 September 2022 12: 32
        +3
        Quote: depressant
        With warmth

        Oh! Did they give you warmth, Lyudmila Yakovlevna? We haven’t yet. requestWe wait.
        1. depressant
          depressant 19 September 2022 13: 26
          +3
          No, they didn’t give us heat, I brazenly warm myself with gas, two burners burn in the morning, I’m not in Europe))))
          And here the wind is such that it blows the soul out of the body through the window cracks, and I, lifting my head, look at her, swaying in the wind, with surprise - how unsightly, damn it! And how did I manage to grow such a thing? wassat )))
          1. astra wild2
            astra wild2 19 September 2022 15: 20
            +3
            Lyudmila Yakovlevna, buy an electric sheet and you will be happy, and I glued the gaps with adhesive tape. I have a draft in my bedroom
            1. depressant
              depressant 19 September 2022 15: 44
              +2
              Yes, I'm talking about the soul...
              Just imagine, 1315. Robert the Bruce came to storm the fortress of Carlisle. He summons field commanders to his camping tent. So, do you see those three boats? Do not touch! This shipyard belongs to me. Even if they shoot from there, do not answer, so as not to damage the watercraft. And when you destroy the gate and enter, there will be a small house to the right, this is the office of the shipyard, there is also the production of boats and the repair of damaged ones. So if they shoot from there, don't answer!
              Further along the course and to the left is the barracks. On the second floor, the production of weapons and their repair. There is also my share. So, if they shoot from there, do not answer, go to the donjon. But don't go to the third floor, there's a treasury, one of the safes is mine.
              So, if they shoot from there, do not answer! ...
              Three times Robert the Bruce stormed the fortress of Carlisle, but never took it. Cause? From my cynical point of view, it is as stated above. And I'm talking about the soul, and not about the temperature of the surrounding space.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 19 September 2022 16: 48
                +4
                Cynical! But I will continue...
                And the field commanders (barons, that is to say) answer Bruce: "Godfather, have you beguiled the coast? We have entered the valley, then we will not shoot!"
                1. depressant
                  depressant 19 September 2022 16: 58
                  +2
                  It reminds me of something, but I won’t mention the time and place of the action, otherwise Alex, who is present here, will be bitterly offended. For he warned not to open their mouths on this topicwassat )))
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 17: 04
                    +5
                    otherwise Alex, and he is present here, will be bitterly offended.
                    This is unlikely, Lesha does not know anything about my criminal youth, and therefore, all analogies are false and refer to everyone's personal impressions, both retrospective and current.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 19 September 2022 17: 39
                      +2
                      Are you pulling on a blanket? wassat )))
                      No, I'm talking about a military situation in which one of the opponents consists of people whom Alex does not like. For he, poor fellow, has to stumble upon them in his Landons and shy away, because he is afraid of them)))
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 17: 44
                        +3
                        You still don't understand that my "blanket" is purple?
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 19 September 2022 18: 34
                        +2
                        Do you wrap yourself in foil? )))
                        Oh, Anton! ... I'm so afraid of offending you, somehow offending you. Please don't be angry with me. Cats scratch at the heart. As soon as I go to Telegram, they start to release their claws.
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 18: 46
                        +4
                        As soon as I go to Telegram, they start to release their claws.
                        "But don't go, nasty, to our kindergarten!" (Another St. Petersburg proverb)
                      4. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 18: 35
                        +4
                        because he is afraid of them
                        I'm not even afraid of the Somalis here. You have unreliable sources.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 19: 05
                        +4
                        That's right, the "Somalis" should be feared elsewhere.
                      6. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 08
                        +3
                        "Somalis" are to be feared elsewhere.
                        You need to be friends with them yes .
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 19: 20
                        +3
                        Opinions, Alex, are different. What did Winston Randolphovich say about the bridge and the devil?
                      8. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 31
                        +3
                        He said a lot of things, especially drunk (that is, always). I bought binoculars at the wreckage - exactly like he had in the photo from the time of the Boer War.
                      9. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 19: 41
                        +4
                        especially drunk (i.e. always).
                        Maybe this factor guarantees entry into History?
                      10. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 48
                        +4
                        this factor
                        Only this one, apart from others, except that it guarantees criminal stories. Otherwise the history would already be full.
                        The inscription on the wall of a bar in Hastings - "If you drink rum every day - you are a pirate, not a wino!" drinks
                      11. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 19: 57
                        +3
                        Che seriously?!?! Such pearls must be reproduced in the original language! Please?!
                      12. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 58
                        +5
                        In the original language!
                        Drinking rum every day makes you a pirate, not an alkie.
                      13. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 20: 13
                        +4
                        Thanks!!! Great!!!
                        I will remember!!!
            2. astra wild2
              astra wild2 19 September 2022 19: 17
              0
              But was there network gas at that time to warm up from the burners?
          2. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 16: 28
            +3
            two burners are burning in the morning, I'm not in Europe
            I'm in Europe, and I have feral parrots yelling in front of the tree terrace fellow .
            1. depressant
              depressant 19 September 2022 16: 50
              +2
              Yes, you once talked about parrots, I remember))) The climate is different. Moreover, you had a decent heat there this summer, and in mainland Europe even the rivers dried up. We don't. At least in the suburbs. Waiting for summer - well, when?!? And here it is, all of a sudden. However, the understanding that this is not for long does not contribute to the search for parrots in the trees with the eyes))))
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 19 September 2022 17: 08
                +2
                Waiting for summer - well, when?!? And here it is, all of a sudden.
                Yes. What is called: as always, suddenly, in December, winter came. This is a St. Petersburg saying, if anything ...
                1. depressant
                  depressant 19 September 2022 17: 32
                  +2
                  Honestly, I didn’t know that such a saying exists in St. Petersburg ... And what, in your country, in St. Petersburg, winter comes only in December? It's not fair! In the suburbs - earlier. It happens that you wake up in the morning in October, and Santa Claus knocks on the window, they say, turned on the gas?
                  I do not know how it is now, but there is a suspicion that the weather in the Middle Ages had a significant impact on the outcome of military campaigns. However, some believe that now too. Like, it's cold in the winter, green in the summer, green in the fall, but it's a wild thaw, and in the spring ... I don't remember what the spring excuse is - I forgot! )))
                  In general, it is better not to fight.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 17: 41
                    +4
                    And what, you, in St. Petersburg, winter comes only in December? It's not fair!
                    Here, in the North-West, winter comes at any moment she likes.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 19 September 2022 17: 46
                      +3
                      The river will either overflow, or the water will turn sour ...
                      I paraphrase:
                      I'm afraid nature will not allow
                      So that beauty saves the world.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 17: 51
                        +4
                        Sour - it's unlikely. This year, the dam has not been closed yet, but, you know, a surge wave, you know, such a thing ... Personally, I saw how the waves walked along the embankments.
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 19 September 2022 18: 30
                        +1
                        As modern military practice shows, a surge wave is a fairly effective means to stop the enemy. In the Middle Ages, it was hardly often used due to the lack of a sufficient number of dams. Then ditches with water were used as protection. This is Carlisle Castle. And why was the earth heaped around him? Now this castle cannot be used for its intended purpose, its territory is easily shot from the ramparts. As a fortified means of defense, it is now zero. Everything flows, including water, everything changes, losing its purpose with the loss of its original quality. Sad...
                        And they say that we are moving towards feudalism. But what about a feudal lord without a fortified castle? wassat )))
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 18: 43
                        +4
                        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, in the dialogue, at your will, we again incline towards existential poetic mysticism. You do not understand anything in modern military practice, surge waves and feudal lords without a castle. Do you want me to start cursing again?
                      4. depressant
                        depressant 19 September 2022 19: 41
                        +1
                        Do you know how? )))
                        Start, and I'll understand everything right away. And, I say, so that's what a surge wave is as a natural phenomenon due to the action of the wind.
                        And in Nova Kakhovkn, to create such a wave, they simply blew up a dam.
                      5. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 20: 47
                        +6
                        Do you know how?

                        He can. He is my best friend.
                        And in Nova Kakhovkn, to create such a wave, they simply blew up a dam.

                        Indeed, and we all understood the exercises.
                        Undermined. hi
                        Do you want to talk to ME about this, Lyudmila Yakovlevna? Or continue to act half hints? good
                        Do you really want to bring politics and suffering for the needs of the state to the peaceful branch of "history"? Everyone understood everything. love
                      6. depressant
                        depressant 19 September 2022 22: 12
                        +1
                        You definitely want to bring politics and suffering for need

                        Kolya, I don't want to. Politota will come by itself. I simply discuss the castle that has sunk into my soul and show why he did this to me.
                      7. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 19
                        +4
                        In the Middle Ages, hardly often used
                        The Gezes actively destroyed the dams so that the advancing Spaniards washed back
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 19 September 2022 18: 59
                +4
                The difference between you and Alexei is, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, that the state will compensate him for the costs of 400 kW / h in the next six months, and you ... "Orenburg downy shawl" ...
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 20
                  +3
                  costs for 400 kWh in the next six months
                  £400 electricity meter subsidy for half a year, to be exact.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 19: 24
                    +4
                    Estimate what £400 is in terms of rubles (even at the current exchange rate) for a Russian pensioner.
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 33
                      +4
                      For a British pensioner, somewhere in 10 days income. For a British worker, three or four days' pay.
                      And in Laos for this money you can buy a virgin bride yes . It's better to consider everything in context.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 19: 46
                        +4
                        And how much is there now a pound "dashing"? I'm a little behind the times...
                      2. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 19: 51
                        +3
                        how much is a pound "dashing" now?
                        A liter of vodka - 16 pounds yes .
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 20: 00
                        +5
                        Well, not very expensive, even if you count on the pre-war exchange rate. Tolerable.
                      4. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 19 September 2022 20: 02
                        +5
                        pre-war exchange rates.
                        The ruble strengthened by the way in relation to the pound after the start of the war, moreover, by a good third.
                        not very expensive
                        Food prices here are only slightly higher than in Russia. Clothing is often even cheaper.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 20: 19
                        +5
                        Clothes in the West have always been many times cheaper than Russian ones. Whenever I saw stock prices in Catalonia, I would not say.
                2. depressant
                  depressant 19 September 2022 19: 46
                  +2
                  the state reimburses him


                  Well, why - Orenburg? I’ll stupidly answer that the fashionable nowadays is Pavlovo-Posad, or whatever it is, in general, through a hyphen, thin, almost transparent and - oh, surprise! - from wool. In this now, many TV personalities go. Some wind it up on their heads in a complex way, some wear it under a leather jacket. Electricity... Hmmm...
                  Didn't know Alex was an English pensioner wassat )))
                  Yes, I'm kidding, of course. I mean, it's all very sad. And six months later...
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 19: 52
                    +5
                    Electricity... Hmmm...
                    "What in youth is sport, in old age - firewood, kerosene and thread!" (Note, not me, Zhvanetsky). Do not worry, and I will be there, although I will try my best to avoid it.
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 20: 09
                    +3
                    And six months later...
                    And in six months, we'll all be dead. Or we won't die. Or die, but not all. As the same Winston Randolphovich used to say (or was it Franklin Rooseveltovich?): "Courage, the worst is ahead!"
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 19 September 2022 20: 40
                      +1
                      "Since you don't want to live in shit,
                      that means you are not a patriot!" (c)
                      ((( recourse )))
                      Once locals told me that in my village in the 90s many people died of starvation. And now, every now and then, prophecies are heard that the 90s will seem like paradise in comparison with what lies ahead. Well, Peter is no stranger, after all, he is Leningrad. Such is the sad humor.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 00
                        +3
                        Well, Peter is no stranger, after all, he is Leningrad.
                        I'm definitely not used to it. The joke, of course, is very rude, but I know what "blockade soldering" is not by hearsay, despite my youth. You shouldn't joke like that anymore.
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 19 September 2022 21: 31
                        +2
                        I won't. And I allowed myself, because I am familiar with the long absence of even blockade soldering ...
                        You, Anton, have always been in YOUR country. And I had to be in it until 2007 as in ALIEN. And for some of my family, this is still the case. Because the Russians are abandoning their own.
                        You don't know the true tragedy...
                        There is a passport, there is a residence permit, as well as arms, legs and a head on your shoulders - you have everything!
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 39
                        +2
                        Because the Russians are abandoning their own.
                        You don't know the true tragedy...

                        And I know. Knowingly, not from personal experience, but knowingly, I am a St. Petersburg marginal.
                      4. depressant
                        depressant 19 September 2022 22: 03
                        +1
                        I'm glad, Anton, that we haven't organized an irresolvable contradiction here. I wish you that all difficulties are gone, as they were not. We all have to muster up the courage for what lies ahead.
                        And ... and how hard it is to type! Where it used to be, there are pitiful remnants.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 22: 16
                        +1
                        "On the outer side of the ring was inscribed: "Everything will pass", on the inside "This too will pass" (Gandalf, "My Meetings with Solomon")
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 19 September 2022 20: 50
        +1
        The need for comfort, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.

        And my appetite is good.
        1. depressant
          depressant 19 September 2022 21: 36
          +1
          Sergey, well, he responded, finally! )))
          With all my heart, I wish you to always be full and, if necessary, slightly under the shofe. There is no harder sight for me than a hungry man. Instant impulse - cook and feed.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 19 September 2022 22: 08
            +4
            The classic picture of contentment: full, drunk and nose in tobacco.
  6. north 2
    north 2 19 September 2022 08: 37
    +7
    Queen of Scots Mary Stuart most likely would have said goodbye to her head earlier if she had not fled to England. In Scotland, she was accused of adultery and of organizing the murder of her own husband. Although that her husband was also a strange person. He did not even participate in the baptism of their common child. By the way, the future first monarch, who simultaneously ruled in both Scotland and England - James the First.
    As for wall graffiti, these wall paintings, probably, should be somehow identified from modern walls painted with spray paint and from simple inscriptions on the walls with spray paint. For some reason, they are also called graffiti. Although the term spray art is more suitable for them. Although, what then to call, as one of the commentators noted here, scratched inscriptions on the wall, such as DMB-81?
    And thanks to the author for another interesting article.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 10: 47
      +4
      Although the term spray art is more suitable for them. Although, what then to call, as one of the commentators noted here, scratched inscriptions on the wall, such as DMB-81?

      When you drive along the Kyiv highway from Pskov to Opochka, you see the same inscription on the walls of abandoned buildings several times - "Taganrog 2021". The "artists" were not lazy. We were regularly reminded of Taganrog. wassat
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 September 2022 11: 33
          +4
          when you go by train towards Luga,
          I haven't traveled to Luga by train for 20 years!
          Hello, Sergey!
          1. mihaylov
            mihaylov 19 September 2022 11: 36
            +4
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            I haven't traveled to Luga by train for 20 years!
            Hello, Sergey!

            Good afternoon Anton,
            but I, in principle, like to ride an electric train at the dacha, especially when they once again dig up the Kiev highway and now they dug it up again .... hi
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 19 September 2022 11: 42
              +4
              Now, they say, it has become convenient. "Swallows" run, but 20 years ago it was somewhat tiring.
              1. mihaylov
                mihaylov 19 September 2022 11: 45
                +5
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Now, they say, it has become convenient. "Swallows" run, but 20 years ago it was somewhat tiring.

                "Swallows" are good and fast, I really don't ride them, since they don't stop at my station, but in general everything is in order with ordinary electric trains now, there are no complaints.
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 19 September 2022 12: 30
              +2
              especially when once again they dig up the Kyiv highway and now they dug it up again ....

              Behind Luga trash with these works. It was possible to stand a couple of hours earlier.
              1. mihaylov
                mihaylov 19 September 2022 12: 36
                +2
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                Behind Luga trash with these works. It was possible to stand a couple of hours earlier.

                Stayed this summer.
                Now the Pulkovo Highway has been dug up again. hi
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 19 September 2022 12: 40
                  +2
                  Sergey, it seems more convenient for you to go to the dacha in Moscow, no?
                  1. mihaylov
                    mihaylov 19 September 2022 12: 42
                    +3
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    Sergey, it seems more convenient for you to go to the dacha in Moscow, no?

                    No, I'm going along Kievsky, in extreme cases, you can use the new paid M-11, if you go to Gatchina. hi
    2. kalibr
      19 September 2022 12: 44
      +3
      Quote: north 2
      Article

      Stay tuned for an exciting sequel...
    3. astra wild2
      astra wild2 19 September 2022 15: 13
      +1
      Colleague, Sever, Mary hardly had to lose her head in Scotland ': there is a very complicated story. + Could find supporters, and England is a trap.
      Katya, somewhere I read that she was lured by the head of British intelligence. He "concocted" her "letters" to the conspirators and ... was left without a head.
      I remember the author’s last name: Chernik, I even saw her, but I don’t remember the name
  7. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 08: 37
    +5
    The construction of the castle was continued by King John (r. 1199-1216),
    I strongly doubt that the eternally impoverished Santer could build something.
    1. kalibr
      19 September 2022 12: 45
      +3
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      I strongly doubt that the eternally impoverished Santer could build something.

      Anton! So it is written in the materials of the history of the castle published on its website ... It is 100% impossible for me personally to check this.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 13: 04
        +1
        So it is written in the materials of the history of the castle published on its website...
        As we have already found out, Vyacheslav Olegovich, using the example of the Scottish sieges of the castle, these materials are not always accurate.
        1. kalibr
          19 September 2022 15: 37
          +2
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          these materials are not always accurate.

          No others.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 19 September 2022 15: 44
            +5
            This is perhaps even good, otherwise where would there be a place for my cleverness and tediousness?
  8. Nephilim
    Nephilim 19 September 2022 13: 02
    +4
    Somehow the author didn’t get it right with the illustrations. There are practically no interiors. Yes, and the general view too.
  9. astra wild2
    astra wild2 19 September 2022 14: 58
    +2
    Good afternoon, do you want a "purchase" confession?
    In the summer of 18, the son fell in love with a woman with a child 20.8 18 years old, they left a girl with me for 3 days. Then we quarreled, and we are happy with my girlfriend, 4 years later, we were otmrozkm: a girl and 3 lyama "moral" or will take on loved ones. Katya hid the girl with her relatives: they won’t find it there, but they will find it .... they won’t return ..
    The "baby" arrived with a shift, 3 people, and an alternative: they attacked the "cedar" and their "self-defense".
    Katin lyadya, made me documents: I am a "surrogate" mother. And settled in the schools ..
    Now I work with her relatives, I glue the wallpaper
    1. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 19 September 2022 19: 55
      +5
      I am a "surrogate" mother

      Creepy story...
      1. astra wild2
        astra wild2 20 September 2022 13: 11
        +2
        When found in the evening, she was terribly frightened. Luckily, my girlfriend was not at home.
        Then I was scared: they knew where and with whom I was working. They knew the address of the named sister.
        And the "baby" was in Yeysk ..
        At night, a girl to Katya, and that uncle Ahmed
  10. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 16: 40
    +9
    Carlisle, which was garrisoned by Royalists in 1642, was one of the few places in the north that remained loyal to the king after the defeat of his main northern army at Marston Moor in July 1644. Therefore, already in October of the same year, an army of parliamentarians surrounded Carlisle and besieged it, hoping to starve the city to death.
    By the way, about my beloved, about "other people's money"

    "Siege" shillings of Carlisle Castle.
    "The second siege coin of 3 shillings was issued at Carlisle Castle near the city of the same name in the north of England. Royalist soldiers were paid with money of a somewhat rough coinage. On the obverse we see the same royal monogram topped with a royal crown. The Roman numeral "III" makes it clear that this the coin is worth 3 shillings, that is, it should contain a little less than 15 grams of pure silver.On the back, the year of the siege of the castle by the supporters of Parliament is indicated, a little higher the inscription "OBsCARL", the meaning of which is contradictory. find nearby. It is believed that then they released about a thousand of these shillings. "(C)
    1. Nephilim
      Nephilim 19 September 2022 20: 52
      +5
      "Siege" shillings of Carlisle Castle.

      During the First English Civil War, siege money was minted in several towns loyal to the king.

      Siege money of Pontefract Castle. Interesting topic, by the way.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 02
        +2
        Interesting topic, by the way.
        Undoubtedly, I already raised it a year ago.
        1. Nephilim
          Nephilim 19 September 2022 21: 11
          +2
          By the way, the first paper money in Europe was just siege money.
    2. Nephilim
      Nephilim 19 September 2022 20: 55
      +3
      There is an opinion that at that time about a thousand of such shillings were issued. "(C)

      During the siege, it is estimated that 1,162 ounces of silver plate were requisitioned and turned into 1,000 three-shilling coins and 3,460 shillings.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 16
        +2
        Haven't tried converting ounces to shillings yet, but it feels like someone kicked someone pretty hard.
        1. Nephilim
          Nephilim 19 September 2022 21: 24
          +2
          Logically, this should be Tower ounce, equal to 29 grams. That is, they collected 33 kg 680 g of silver.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 34
            +2
            That is, everything seemed to be minted honestly ...
            1. Nephilim
              Nephilim 19 September 2022 21: 36
              +3
              Well, the honest name of the unknown minter has been restored!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 42
                +2
                As well as the dishonest name of the captain of the guard!)))
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 47
                +2
                Although, on the other hand, silver, even minted, is not a very high-calorie product ...
                1. Nephilim
                  Nephilim 19 September 2022 21: 51
                  +3
                  But when silver ran out, coins were minted even on prayer books, as during the siege of Leiden in 1574.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 September 2022 21: 57
                    +2
                    So in Carlisle church silver was collected. Proteins, fats and carbohydrates did not increase from this.
                    1. Nephilim
                      Nephilim 19 September 2022 22: 00
                      +3
                      Therefore, when they ate all the proteins and fats in the form of horses, dogs, cats and rats, they had to capitulate.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 22: 07
                        +2
                        Yes, this is the trouble of any city siege, civilians consume many times more defenders and many times more than calculated.
                      2. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 19 September 2022 22: 15
                        +3
                        Especially taking into account the fact that canned food and freeze-dried products had not yet been invented in those glorious years.
                        However, we will not stretch 200 comments.
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 22: 20
                        +2
                        However, we will not stretch 200 comments.
                        Yes, it seems that such a task was not set, we just talk. It’s a pity that Mikhail didn’t fool around with the cylindricity of siege architecture ...
                      4. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 19 September 2022 22: 36
                        +3
                        Yes, that's me, by the way. For some reason the author came to mind. Mikhail is already like Shpakovsky - he makes statements without a shadow of a doubt. Even the wrong ones.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 September 2022 22: 50
                        +2
                        Michal is just a little off topic, as a person who is passionate about the other.
                      6. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 20 September 2022 12: 48
                        +1
                        There is a lot to do, Anton. And yesterday evening there was a small force majeure. smile
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 September 2022 13: 00
                        +3
                        It's all right, Michael! What questions can there be!
  11. Kmon
    Kmon 19 September 2022 18: 39
    0
    The views are gorgeous. I would like to see articles about other castles.
    1. kalibr
      20 September 2022 07: 05
      +2
      Quote: Kmon
      I would like to see articles about other castles.

      You can visit my profile. There are more than 1700 articles and among them there are many articles about castles. But, of course, there will be articles about castles in the near future.
  12. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 19 September 2022 19: 11
    +2
    don’t say what they know how to preserve historical objects
    1. Fat
      Fat 20 September 2022 08: 16
      +1
      hi British? Do not know how! They fucked up everything that the clumsy hands of the renovators reached out to, even the legendary stonehenge. sad