Military Review

"Javelin" against our tanks: something needs to be done about it

96
"Javelin" against our tanks: something needs to be done about it
Source: discover24.ru



This has been talked about for years, and here it is. In the zone of the special military operation in Ukraine, Russian Tanks for the first time faced with the massive use of the "roof-piercing" American Javelin light anti-tank missile system. Despite all sorts of statements that this is just rubbish stuffed with expensive electronics, it can hardly be called useless. it weapon was originally developed as a counterbalance to Soviet armored vehicles, which, albeit after a deep modernization, include our tanks. You can be sure that the developers of the Javelin, who were lucky enough to arrange a large-scale run-in of their offspring against the purposes for which it was created, will draw certain conclusions to increase the effectiveness of this product.

We also need to draw conclusions. There are more and more anti-tank weapons attacking the upper hemisphere of the combat vehicle, both quantitatively and qualitatively, and therefore the problem of protecting this projection of the tank in the future will require its solution.

Traditional Armor and Unconventional Javelin


For more than seventy years, the gold standard in both our tank building and foreign has been differentiated armor, also called multi-strength or rational. His idea is to provide the greatest protection for those projections that are more exposed to fire - the frontal parts of the tower and hull, while the sides, stern and roof are content with secondary importance and less resistance to anti-tank weapons. All this is quite logical: a tank made according to the differentiated armor scheme weighs much less than its brother with equal strength armor, and at the same time it is better protected in maneuvering heading angles, which is what tank builders of all countries, including ours, are guided by. All T-64/72/80/90s, and Abrams with Leopards 2, Leclercs, and so on, were created according to this principle. In general, as they say, an ageless classic, with which you still have to live and live for decades with a small chance of an alternative.

It is noteworthy that anti-tank ammunition is also being developed within the framework of these rules. We can talk for a long time about the fact that no one has been shooting a tank in the forehead for a long time, but the fact remains: when creating almost any armor-piercing projectile, guided missile and most anti-tank grenades, the possibility of hitting a target in the most powerful frontal projection is taken into account. It is logical that in this confrontation between armor and projectile, when armor penetration and protection play catch-up with varying degrees of success, someday an asymmetric game-changing response will appear.

This answer was the means that practically nullify the traditional tank armor scheme. We are talking about missiles that attack at the weakest point - the roof, a prominent representative of which is the Javelin, as a light and, most importantly, massive missile system, which is already being tested on a large scale against our equipment.

Make the roof thicker?


As you know, Javelin ATGM missiles are equipped with infrared homing heads, which allows them to attack from top to bottom in the geometric center of the tank, which is the tower, or rather, its roof. The fact that it is not difficult to break through this part of the vehicle’s armor protection with a conditional thickness of 40 mm of steel is understandable without much explanation. Here, breaks and dents are provided from vertically falling large-caliber mines, not to mention a tandem cumulative warhead that penetrates about 800 mm behind dynamic protection.


Source: regnum.ru

How to increase security? Equipping the roof with combined armor will not work. Yes, some materials, including semi-active elements, show high resistance to cumulative projectiles and at the same time have a lower mass than steel. For example, we can take the widely advertised reinforced ceramics based on silicon carbide. This contraption was used not only to make armor for tanks and other equipment, but also continue to produce bulletproof vests and other personal protective equipment. Despite the fact that it provides anti-cumulative resistance up to 30% higher than that of steel armor, in order to protect against the Javelin tandem warhead, it will be necessary to increase the thickness of the roof with ceramic inserts to at least 600 mm. Undoubtedly, technological progress does not stand still, and modern protective structures show much higher efficiency, however, the use of even the most advanced combined elements will make the roof “thicken” by 10 or more times.

The numbers are absolutely outrageous and cannot be realized in practice for several reasons, including: an exorbitant increase in the height and weight of the tank, the low-tech manufacturing of turrets and the expansion of their weakened zones. And this is actually the least of the problems.

Dynamic protection and "visors"


And what about dynamic protection (DZ)? With the roof of the tower, everything is not very good. The fact is that dynamic protection for effective action requires the presence of full and thick armor behind it. Tests of the mounted DZ "Kontakt" against grenades and missiles show that it is capable of, at best, reducing the penetration of these ammunition by 400-450 millimeters. As a result, HEAT warheads with a penetration capacity of 800-1000 mm, after overcoming dynamic protection, leave a hole in the armor up to 300-500 mm deep. More advanced dynamic protection systems, which include Contact-5 and Relic, provide less aftereffect of the cumulative jet, however, to completely neutralize it, you still need to have the same 300-400 mm of passive armor behind the DZ, which is simply unreal.


The roof of the tower T-72B3 arr. 2016. Source: commons.wikimedia.org

But here, in addition to all other nuances, the spatial arrangement of dynamic protection units plays a role. It is known that the DZ shows the greatest efficiency only at a large angle of inclination, and on the tower it is installed almost horizontally. Even taking into account the fact that the Javelin missile does not fly at the target strictly vertically, but at a certain angle, the dynamic protection against it will not fully work.

Also, among the shortcomings, one can note the impossibility of covering the entire roof area with DZ blocks due to the equipment and hatches installed on it. At the same time, one should not forget that the Javelin warhead is made according to a tandem scheme and is capable of overcoming dynamic protection of the Contact and Contact-5 types. Although, in fact, the “Relic” with its anti-tandem properties will also get worse here - both the unfavorable angle of approach of the rocket and the thin roof armor, which will not hold back the residual effect of the cumulative jet in any case, will affect.

Equally doubtful are the so-called "peaks" - steel structures in the form of platoon lattice screens installed above the roof of the tank turret. These products, mostly of a handicraft nature, were massively used during the war in Syria, but then migrated to our tanks. Their debut on domestic vehicles was a special military operation in Ukraine, although tanks with this impromptu protection appeared in the lenses of television cameras long before February 24 during the exercises.


One of the options for "visors" for the T-72B3. Source: freehelp24.ru

First, there are a number of operational problems. These include difficulties with loading ammunition, a strong limitation of the aiming angles of a large-caliber machine gun, reduced visibility from the tank, and, finally, the ability to demolish this "visor" by catching on some kind of obstacle - collapsing (from an explosion or from a "hook"), this the design can complicate the exit from the tank by blocking the hatches.

As for the combat effectiveness of the "visors", it can manifest itself to the greatest extent against cluster munitions, while in order to guarantee the protection of the entire roof of the tower from the combat units of the Javelin, it will be necessary to increase the height of this anti-cumulative canopy to at least one and a half meters, which will certainly affect its sustainability. In general, as a one-time "crutch" with very dubious effectiveness - it will do, but as a reliable tool - no.

Possible solution to the problem


In general, of course, the problem of protecting the roof of a tank is not so new. A long time ago there were submunitions attacking from above for MLRS cluster projectiles, aviation missiles, as well as missiles for portable / transportable anti-tank systems with shock nuclei. But if it is still possible to organize protection from "cassette guns" and shock nuclei by more or less simple means, and aviation homing missiles, due to their specifics, are still far from the most frequent guest on the fronts of hostilities, then a completely different situation develops with the Javelin - this is a massive, high-precision and rather penetrating thing that is already actively fighting against our tanks. Countering this threat requires a whole range of measures.

If we discard all ideas with dubious "visors", not very effective dynamic protection and other means, the tank's thermal camouflage should come to the fore. In the case of the Javelin, this is one of the most important protection factors. An example would be heat-insulating materials that can be used to disrupt missile guidance. Low visibility for infrared homing heads (GOS) is a matter of paramount importance, but masking is also needed for something else.

The operators of this missile system in the course of their training learn not only to prepare the system for use, to look into the sight and pull the trigger. A considerable part of the study time is devoted to the routine procedure of finding a target. Yes, the Javelin is not smart enough to say to the shooter: “Hey, over there, a little to the left, a kilometer away, there is a tank behind the bushes, press the button and I will shoot.” In fact, the operator, although having a thermal imager, often has to look for an enemy combat vehicle in order to fire at it. And this is a weak point in the chain of actions from “turned on the anti-tank systems” to “hit the target”.

Including disguise should hit him. Here our military-industrial complex has something to offer.

At the disposal of our military there is a mass-produced Nakidka complex. It is actually a cover that covers the maximum possible area of ​​​​the external projections of the tank. Structurally, the “Cape” consists of heat-insulating and radio-absorbing layers, which several times reduce the probability of detecting a tank both in the infrared range and make it less noticeable to reconnaissance radar stations.


Complex "Nakidka" on the T-90MS. Source: wikimedia.commons.org

"Cape" is able to make the tank less visible not only for homing heads (GOS), but also for the human eye, looking into the thermal imaging sight. The temperatures of the outer layer of this cover, even with the heated armor of the tank, remain at the ambient level, so it will be much more difficult for the Javelin operator in combat conditions to determine a target that is faintly distinguished from the background.

An addition to this should be the camouflage of the chassis of the tank. It is known that the suspension, due to the abundance of moving, including rotating elements, can compete with the engine compartment in terms of heat load. Moreover, it is sometimes so strong in the infrared spectrum that it is by its radiation that you can determine whether a tank is in sight or some other vehicle.


An example of a running gear warming up. Source: realitymod.com

We began to pay attention to these details only on the latest modifications of tanks. You can see how the side screens have evolved from short "mini-skirts" to long "monastic robes" on the latest modifications of the T-90, T-80 and T-72. But there is still a place to strive, and an example in the form of a photo is attached below.


An example of the correct undercarriage camouflage. Source: vk.com

Here, of course, it would be worth mentioning the decrease in the temperature of the exhaust gases, which greatly affect the visibility of the tank in thermal imaging sights, but on our vehicles of the T-72 and T-90 family, it is completely problematic to organize this. However, even with the use of the “Cape” and elongated side screens, the visibility of the tank for the operator of the ATGM and GOS drops several times.

However, camouflage does not always save, so the second necessary attribute of the tank should be an active countermeasure system. And this issue, in contrast to the “Capes” that are quite applicable in mass production, requires more detailed studies.

Let's be honest, active protection on our tanks will not appear for a long time. This is due to both the financial component and the lack of clear certainty whether it is needed at all or not. Indeed, in addition to the obvious advantages, the classic active defense systems with the destruction of incoming projectiles have a number of disadvantages. Among them: extremely high power consumption when installing additional radars with monitoring of the space above the tank, the danger of infantry being hit by fragments of counter-munitions, high visibility for radar reconnaissance, deterioration of situational awareness of tankers and difficulty in interacting with infantry, since hatches cannot be opened when the protection complex is on, and so on. .

Yes, we can say that there are systems in which these problems are somehow solved. The problem is that we don't have them yet.

In general, of course, one of the most likely ways out of the current situation could be the possible development of the Shtora optical-electronic suppression system, which is installed on our tanks and other combat vehicles both in full and in a reduced composition.


Tank T-90A with KOEP "Shtora". Source: en.wikipedia.org

We are talking about ultraviolet direction finders, which can be installed in addition to the Shtora laser irradiation sensors. Ultraviolet radiation from rocket engines is located in the so-called solar blinding zone of the electromagnetic spectrum, where there are practically no interferences that interfere with the operation of infrared sensors and radar stations. So the chance to identify the attacking tank ammunition is very high. At the same time, there is no need to install radar stations that consume power from the on-board network, as well as a complex computer system.

Counteraction to the observed missile can take place according to the technology worked out on the Shtor by shooting grenades with an aerosol based on fine particles that are impenetrable in the infrared spectrum. As a result, a cloud that is opaque to the homing heads is formed above the tank. The missile loses sight of the target, and guidance fails. No lethal fragments and no danger to the infantry.


An example of setting up aerosol curtains. Source: en.wikipedia.org

Similar solutions are presented both on the latest Russian tank T-14 "Armata" and on foreign models. And they are quite viable. According to preliminary estimates, the efficiency of such systems can be 80-90%.


On the left side of the T-14 turret, aerosol grenade launchers are visible to counter the ammunition attacking from above. Source: warfiles.ru

In general, there are solutions to the problem, and they need to be worked on in the near future. "Javelin" is not "somewhere out there, far away and not with us", as it was before the start of the NWO. Now it is here and now. On the example of the events currently taking place in Ukraine, it can be said with confidence that precision weapons are no longer some kind of elite feature. If necessary, they can literally oversaturate the troops, which brings the threat to tanks from the level of theory to the level of terrible practice. And, given the current trends in the development of anti-tank systems, the American Spear will not be limited in the future.
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  1. Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 19 September 2022 16: 17
    +3
    COEPs, in principle, can be placed on both light and heavy armor, and, not least, they are safe for infantry and relatively cheap. We are waiting, sir.
    1. Romario_Argo
      Romario_Argo 19 September 2022 20: 12
      +2
      KAZ is needed
      if KAZ Arena-M, then implement the detonation of counter-ammunition and down to the incoming threats on board, and up to destroy the incoming ATGMs from above
      Javelin - a light, unarmored ATGM - at least it will cut and cut through with fragments and it will leave the trajectory, at the maximum, detonating the KAZ counter-ammunition upward will tear the ATGM apart

      that is, the photo shows that the detonation upwards will practically meet the ATGM and the detonation should be very close to the armor when the angle still allows

      a combination of KAZ would be ideal
      KAZ Arena-M + KAZ Zaslon or KAZ Afghanit only turn his mortars up
      1. Cympak
        Cympak 19 September 2022 21: 03
        +3
        In reality, the Javelin does not dive vertically on the roof of the target, it has an angle of attack of 45 degrees, therefore, the Ataka-M KAZ can intercept such a target.
        1. Romario_Argo
          Romario_Argo 19 September 2022 21: 07
          0
          KAZ Arena is better to combine with KAZ Afganit and put several of his mortars vertically behind the tower - to cover from above from any angles
          in the photo earlier KAZ Zaslon (see above - an approximate sector of protection from above)
          at the Barrier, counter-ammunition does not shoot back like KAZ Afganit at a distance from the armor
        2. NG inform
          NG inform 19 September 2022 22: 42
          0
          Here you need to immediately understand that making it dive is not a problem.
          But in general, such rockets glow and they are fragile. KAZ directly suggests itself.
          (whining about the nauseating lack of consistency in our approaches to development and production).
      2. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 20 September 2022 17: 28
        -1
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        KAZ is needed
        if KAZ Arena-M, then implement the detonation of counter-ammunition and down to the incoming threats on board, and up to destroy the incoming ATGMs from above

        It’s scary to put KAZ on armored personnel carriers, armored cars and infantry fighting vehicles - fragments can mow down their own infantry.
        You can and probably should put it on tanks.
    2. Bulgarian_5
      Bulgarian_5 19 September 2022 21: 58
      +1
      And can you also equip the tanks with adequate optics and thermal imagers so that the operators of the turret can be seen from 15 km away?

      And in general, remove people from the tank, the tank becomes unmanned, 2 times smaller in size, and will not be so easily noticeable and amazed.
      Why the hell are people needed there, one moves 2 handles and puts pressure on the pedal, the other with a joystick moves 1 tower left / right, etc.
      20 channel analog control system is enough.
      1. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 20 September 2022 18: 43
        +1
        Quote: Bulgarian_5
        And can you also equip the tanks with adequate optics and thermal imagers so that the operators of the turret can be seen from 15 km away?

        It is impossible - about 15 km. So they put thermal imagers.
        Quote: Bulgarian_5
        And in general, remove people from the tank, the tank becomes unmanned, 2 times smaller in size, and will not be so easily noticeable and amazed.

        No need. This is a stillborn topic, in my opinion. Slightly a problem - the car got up and captured. What about EMI? And the electronic warfare? After all, this is not even an UAV, a cat that can quickly leave, as practice has shown, but a rather slow car.
        As a result, we will get another Wishlist of designers and big bosses, and we will have to fight on the T-62.
        Robotic vehicles, if they do it, are only in the light class, as a mobile means of reinforcing infantry.
        Quote: Bulgarian_5
        Remove the yachts from Deripaska and other bourgeois and sell them for money ...

        And who will buy it? And most importantly - how to transfer money for it to the Russian Federation? This should have been done before the start of XB-2.0.
    3. Bulgarian_5
      Bulgarian_5 19 September 2022 22: 00
      +3
      Not enough money for KAZ?

      Remove the yachts from Deripaska and other bourgeois and sell them for money ... yes
      1. NG inform
        NG inform 19 September 2022 22: 43
        +1
        It's easier for you to have half the salary, no? Thus, you can collect 100 times more money.
  2. igorka357
    igorka357 19 September 2022 17: 38
    +6
    Well, you have to write something, but in fact, as we all saw, we are fighting .. how did our GDP say "old Soviet galoshes" there?
  3. u4gr8Kk6p8
    u4gr8Kk6p8 19 September 2022 17: 43
    -5
    And if our engineers work out such a countermeasure system as a high-pressure water strike on an incoming ammunition. Meaning like a water gun, high pressure water and steel cuts.
    1. tikhonov66
      tikhonov66 27 September 2022 09: 32
      0
      Cool idea. Water - not metal and in small volumes - perfectly slows down and disperses in the air ... well, carry a tank with you ...
  4. Cympak
    Cympak 19 September 2022 17: 52
    +8
    I saw a lot of videos from the NVO zone with the combat use of armored vehicles, ATGM strikes on them, but never I have not seen the use of aerosol curtains. Once or twice I saw how armored vehicles put up a smoke screen with the help of thermal smoke equipment, and at the moments of the code, the use of "Clouds" was more justified. The question arises: why are aerosol grenades not used? Maybe the reason is similar to the problem with camouflage nets?
    1. Zheka-Filimonov
      Zheka-Filimonov 19 September 2022 21: 07
      +4
      Maybe similar to the problem with camouflage nets - or maybe similar to the staffing of troops with new equipment, or maybe similar to first-aid kits, or maybe problems with UAVs, and so on and on
      There are many questions to which there are no answers, but we will find out the truth about the price of this in just thirty years
    2. NG inform
      NG inform 19 September 2022 22: 44
      0
      Maybe they just post successful videos - that is. where there is no smoke.
  5. TIR
    TIR 19 September 2022 17: 58
    +2
    Active armor will solve a lot of problems. Card charges directed upwards. And the infantry will not be affected, and it seems like the detection and guidance radar is quite in time for the Javelins. Not so high-speed ATGM. At least the protection system in the cost of MBT takes less money than the cost of the engine or armor
  6. Cheburek
    Cheburek 19 September 2022 17: 59
    +3
    You don’t need to invent any garbage, but you need to lay out money beyond the pockets of officials, but put KAZ on tanks, there will be volumes - there will be something to study efficiency and what to improve ...
  7. tank64rus
    tank64rus 19 September 2022 18: 07
    +3
    You need to study popular science literature. In the USSR, this was very developed, so these problems would have been resolved long ago. By the way, there is really very little use of smoke to mask armored vehicles in the NWO and not only it, but in general. The cape was shown, but the rest was not seen.
    1. Fedot
      Fedot 20 September 2022 15: 09
      +1
      popular science literature

      In 1965-1966 I read the fantastic story "Absolute Weapon" in the newspaper "Nedelya".
      Three people found a warehouse on Mars, one remained alive after a shootout. He opened the box marked "Ultimate Weapon", and a cloud floated out of it and swallowed two corpses, and then a third. The sphere that absorbed the shots did not help him either.
      A few years later I read another story with the same title.
      But there the bow and arrows turned out to be the absolute weapon.
  8. Last centurion
    Last centurion 19 September 2022 18: 12
    +3
    Make a folding visor behind the turret or tank hull, which is forcibly heated, for example, by exhaust. Let it go by? Randomly, depending on the direction of movement, retractable armatures with peltier so that the javelin processor goes crazy? Or just peltier scattered, let's say, as far as possible from the carcass of the tank - at the muzzle of the gun :) and turning on randomly,
    1. tikhonov66
      tikhonov66 27 September 2022 09: 40
      0
      "Peltier" - electricity eats immeasurably. And two - this is that COLD junctions "Peltier" infrared head "can not be deceived." Well, if you want to "spread" HOT junctions around the tank - then in order to "pelte" - take heat away from the tank - and these are hundreds (!) Kilowatts - you will have to carry a POWER PLANT on the tank, and have "peltier" materials FROM SUPERCONDUCTOR ... because with such fabrics - "peltier" - conductors will be TERRIBLY HEATING.
      - IT WAS JUST ON PAPER... 8-)))
  9. your1970
    your1970 19 September 2022 18: 12
    +3
    As an option, the operator of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who came over to our side with an ATGM should pay its cost and forgive sins ...
  10. ramzay21
    ramzay21 19 September 2022 18: 16
    +5
    To begin with, it is necessary to bring to justice those who were supposed to do this for the last 20 years but did not do it, return the death penalty and put them against the wall. And then to put in charge of these processes the most intelligent of those who fought in tanks in the NWO.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 20 September 2022 06: 24
      +2
      Quote: ramzay21
      To begin with, it is necessary to bring to justice those who were supposed to do this for the last 20 years but did not do it, return the death penalty and put them against the wall. And then to put in charge of these processes the most intelligent of those who fought in tanks in the NWO.

      Shaw? Do you want to shoot everything led by Shoigu? Or maybe, it’s scary to say, Himself?
    2. tikhonov66
      tikhonov66 27 September 2022 09: 53
      -1
      O! - well, DIRECTLY WITH YOU - and let's start!
      - you say, sho type type, you are not aisles here and your business is "build-fight"?
      - nooo, dear - do not get out!.
      - who "20 years ago" - instead of studying excellently, taking exams at a university and graduate school, and then, for a modest salary, poring over plans, drawings, tests at training grounds, taking research and development - drinking vodka with friends and with girls did you talk at the dance?
      - BUT?!
      So now YOU WILL ANSWER.
      8-)))

      mindlessly "waving a saber" - complex problems DO NOT SOLVE.
      - And to appoint responsible - ANYONE CAN BE.
      and this, alas, is a MATTER.
  11. filibuster
    filibuster 19 September 2022 18: 34
    +3
    An example would be heat-insulating materials that can be used to disrupt missile guidance. Low visibility for infrared homing heads (GOS) is a matter of paramount importance, but masking is also needed for something else.


    This suggests a new generation of anti-tank systems in which, instead of or in addition to the infrared seeker, there will be conventional target recognition, now there is an element base, algorithms, well-established practice in the field of Computer Vision, and all this fits into small dimensions.
    1. Bayun
      Bayun 20 September 2022 13: 10
      0
      in response there will be a tank, "unlike-tank", generating 3-4 holograms of a "real tank" ...
    2. tikhonov66
      tikhonov66 27 September 2022 10: 05
      0
      Because of Russia's obvious lag in high-speed and compact microelectronics, I'm afraid that the trump cards here will not be on our side.
      - and one more thing ... camouflage in the optical range is quite clear and well developed - all sorts of nets and camouflage coloring ... - and this is in contrast to thermal camouflage - which is extremely difficult, since machines with 100% efficiency - alas, do not exist. Moreover, diesel efficiency is not higher than 35%. This means that with engine power, let's say 1000 kW - 560 kilowatts - WILL GO HEAT. And how to remove this heat and dissipate it in the environment is a HUGE PROBLEM (for example, an ordinary iron HARDLY dissipates 1-2 kilowatts, heating up above 100 degrees ... and here you need to dissipate 600 kilowatts - WITHOUT NOTICEABLE HEATING, which is hardly possible ...)
      - so infrared detection / guidance is MUCH MORE EFFICIENT than OPTICAL.
  12. Mikhail Ya2
    Mikhail Ya2 19 September 2022 18: 37
    +5
    The cape of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has already been captured along with the T-90. Now an algorithm of action will be laid against it, in American missiles.
  13. AlexeyEg
    AlexeyEg 19 September 2022 18: 46
    +2
    If only it were warm. This is a war on old technology. New Javelins will find targets differently. Now, on some not even the coolest controllers!, you can run a neural network that determines the image. The image of the tank, through conventional optics, can be 5 years ago on the Raspberry Pi. Capes will not help ... but with camouflage nets .. they don’t go.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 20 September 2022 06: 26
      0
      Quote: AlexeyEg
      If only it were warm. This is a war on old technology. New Javelins will find targets differently. Now, on some not even the coolest controllers!, you can run a neural network that determines the image. The image of the tank, through conventional optics, can be 5 years ago on the Raspberry Pi. Capes will not help ... but with camouflage nets .. they don’t go.

      The best option is an aerosol curtain
    2. tikhonov66
      tikhonov66 27 September 2022 10: 12
      0
      How is it "do not go"?!
      - put the frame, pulled the network - and go!
      - absolutely not understood - what is the problem here!
      - AGAIN. Masking in the optical range is much easier than in infrared.
      - you understand - in the optical range, any running engine only REFLECTS, like any neighboring object - for example, a pole. But in the infrared range - any running engine - LIGHTS like a New Year's light bulb. And it glows the brighter - the more POWERFUL and COMPACT this engine is.
      - and this is MATCH!!!
      1. AlexeyEg
        AlexeyEg 28 September 2022 19: 36
        0
        What will you cover? You can train a neural network for this.
  14. Puzoter
    Puzoter 19 September 2022 18: 47
    0
    Place mortars equipped with a net of rope with weights and an optical-location station around the perimeter of the tower.
    1. Andriuha077
      Andriuha077 19 September 2022 19: 26
      0
      Uncertain prospects of "Arena-M"
      At the beginning of 2017, the Design Bureau of Mechanical Engineering (Kolomna), which developed the KAZ of the Arena series, announced that such systems would be installed on the T-72 and T-90 MBTs in the future. A radar unit is raised above the tower, and launchers are located along the perimeter of the dome. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
      https://topwar.ru/177671-neopredelennye-perspektivy-areny-m.html
  15. TOR2
    TOR2 19 September 2022 18: 56
    +6
    The author did not indicate one more direction - the failure of the capture. As a basis, you can use the same SOEP, but only as a basis. The task of the installation is to emit rays interfering with the capture of the GOS target. After the GOS has passed the cooling, the operator does not have very much time, and then there are the "bunnies".

    In terms of energy consumption, it is quite acceptable for a tank.
    1. Romario_Argo
      Romario_Argo 19 September 2022 21: 04
      -2
      it is better to rely on KAZ automation
      and, for example, put KAZ Arena-M and KAZ Afganit on the T-72B3M
      behind the tower, you can place several KAZ Afghanit mortars up - just from the Javelin ATGM (in the photo KAZ Zaslon - to understand the protection of the upper hemisphere)
      1. Nordsc0l
        Nordsc0l 19 September 2022 23: 19
        +1
        Firstly, Kaz Zaslon is a Ukrainian Kaz. Secondly, Kaz Afganit is better than the Arena. And it is designed for Almaty. Its meaning is that it is used together with DZ Malachite. They are connected. Kaz transmits information about the target, and a signal when dz to work. Without Malachite, it makes no sense. And Malachite, like Afghanite, is not. It has never been shown either in tests or in exercises. So, something seems to be wrong there. Therefore, you can put the Arena
    2. NG inform
      NG inform 19 September 2022 22: 46
      -1
      You can shoot traps - some burning mesh shaped like a tank. Let the rocket fire over it.
    3. Dead duck
      Dead duck 21 September 2022 01: 17
      0
      It is also possible to “clog” warhead triggering sensors with interference or mislead about the distance for early or late triggering.
      If it’s not clear, you can watch a video (in slow motion) of the same Hellfire, where you can clearly see the moment the target is illuminated before detonation.
  16. Yaroslav Ryazansky
    Yaroslav Ryazansky 19 September 2022 19: 16
    +3
    I think the best fight against Javelins is one that excludes the use of this complex in principle. As a fact, a lot of videos are shown with these and other complexes abandoned in the trenches, dugouts.
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 19 September 2022 19: 31
      +2
      Quote: Yaroslav Ryazansky
      I think the best fight against Javelins is one that excludes the use of this complex in principle. As a fact, a lot of videos are shown with these and other complexes abandoned in the trenches, dugouts.

      I agree!
      EMP will not survive Jevelin, and the operator will not survive the rest of the damaging factors wink
      1. AlAvis
        AlAvis 19 September 2022 20: 46
        +2
        And who will survive the "response"?
    2. ROSS_51
      ROSS_51 20 September 2022 06: 13
      -1
      Quote: Yaroslav Ryazansky
      I think the best fight against Javelins is one that excludes the use of this complex in principle. As a fact, a lot of videos are shown with these and other complexes abandoned in the trenches, dugouts.

      A lot of closed containers from shots were shown - what is inside is not known. What about command and launch modules? They were probably captured, but I didn’t see a single one in the videos.
  17. 1984
    1984 19 September 2022 19: 22
    -1
    you just need to understand that in modern mass dimensions you can’t invent any prodigy, you have to proceed from the possibility of modern weapons and then design tanks based on them, which we currently have, the most modern weapons have penetration of about 1,5 meters of armor along the normal, so we’re making a tank with armor 2 meters in front, behind, above and on the side, we’ll get a car weighing a thousand three tons, but it won’t care at all, and by the way, it’s much more difficult to increase penetration now, so it’s not very soon that sub-caliber ammunition will learn to penetrate two meters cumulative, or maybe not learn at all within the ATGM ...
  18. Mikhail Drabkin
    Mikhail Drabkin 19 September 2022 19: 32
    0
    Author:
    something needs to be done about it


    - More like the age-old “what to do?”

    —- The threat of the Javelin in the upper hemisphere is continuous, clear. This means that protection against it must be continuous.

    —- What is the life expectancy of a tank, other armored vehicles ... on the battlefield (not on the march) with Javelins ??

    —- For this duration, continuous aerosol protection is needed in the upper hemisphere with the minimum required radius. And probably - and double duration.
  19. certero
    certero 19 September 2022 19: 54
    +1
    Nobody will do anything. Not a single tank with KAZ participated in its own, and you are talking about some new things that need to be developed and done.
    Protection against javelins is the destruction of operators, as during the Great Patriotic War, when the infantry shot off the Faustpatrons
  20. Spasatel
    Spasatel 19 September 2022 20: 23
    -5
    They waited, prepared, everyone was aware of how much and what the States had delivered to Ukraine. More than a thousand tanks were lost, hundreds of planes and helicopters were killed by Stringers, which can be fired from every corner, as well as by Javelins. Yes, the iron is okay, but the crews? Who is dead, who is disabled, who is in captivity.
    "Everything for the front, everything for victory" - this is not about Putin and his power ...
    1. Havoc
      Havoc 19 September 2022 23: 39
      +2
      Spasatel - More than a thousand tanks were lost, hundreds of planes and helicopters were killed by Stringers,

      Aristovich didn’t even talk about hundreds of planes. Yes, and Ukrainians have only a dozen videos about downed planes, there are videos where the letters Air Force are on board instead of VKS. You probably do not understand that with this post you can earn yourself a term to discredit pure water. our losses in aviation are the same as in Ukraine. they have 447 we also have hundreds, at least think a little
      1. Repellent
        Repellent 19 September 2022 23: 51
        0
        Quote: Havoc
        do you think a little

        Well, what are you pestering, the body is at work, but there is nothing and no reason for it to think request yes
        1. Spasatel
          Spasatel 20 September 2022 19: 46
          -4
          But what place do you think, everyone already understood a long time ago ...
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 20 September 2022 06: 31
        -1
        Quote: Havoc
        Spasatel - More than a thousand tanks were lost, hundreds of planes and helicopters were killed by Stringers,

        Aristovich didn’t even talk about hundreds of planes. Yes, and Ukrainians have only a dozen videos about downed planes, there are videos where the letters Air Force are on board instead of VKS. You probably do not understand that with this post you can earn yourself a term to discredit pure water. our losses in aviation are the same as in Ukraine. they have 447 we also have hundreds, at least think a little

        Arestovich just says a lot of things, it’s just that our mo is modestly silent. Only the lazy don’t know about the tanks captured by the Ukrainians
        1. Repellent
          Repellent 20 September 2022 19: 59
          +1
          Quote: Pilat2009
          our mo is modestly silent. only the lazy do not know about the tanks captured by the Ukrainians

          So what? Did they lose more than a thousand tanks?

          Quote: Spasatel
          Tanks lost more than a thousand

          There is something to confirm, besides the Galimy Bazaar?
    2. provergatel
      provergatel 22 September 2022 16: 36
      0
      What are you talking about, sick man?!

      Did you dream of numbers in a drug withdrawal?
  21. AlAvis
    AlAvis 19 September 2022 20: 42
    0
    Quote: Yaroslav Ryazansky
    As a fact, a lot of videos are shown with these and other complexes abandoned in trenches, dugouts

    "Complexes" or already used disposable launch containers? There is a difference .
  22. Yaroslav Tekkel
    Yaroslav Tekkel 19 September 2022 22: 16
    0
    The proposed methods will help from "Javelin" (suppose they help). But this is no longer the freshest Western ATGM. There is a French "Akeron" (MMP). He dives from above, and he can do it at an angle of 90 degrees (outside the action of our KAZ). It is controlled by an unwinding optical fiber, so that electronic warfare (except for the severe burning of electronics for a kilometer around) will not work. And it is controlled not by a stupid computer, but by a live operator behind the hills / forest / houses from a distance of several kilometers. So primitive snags will not work on him.
  23. Krasstar
    Krasstar 19 September 2022 23: 31
    -4
    It is necessary ... What to do ... SHOOTING AT THE PROTECTED TOWERS of the Kremlin ... Suddenly they will survive ..
    Proy not only 400 billion dollars of people's money, but the entire rearmament program.
    Who did it? The one who has 3 lives... Personally, I can unearth and scatter.... not... changed my mind.... THE WIND OF HISTORY WILL SWEEP AND GROUND THAT THINGS WHICH..... MUMBLES About greatness. WHAT DOES THIS SORRY KNOW ABOUT WHAT IS SITTING ON WITH HER POOR ASS?
  24. andron352
    andron352 19 September 2022 23: 45
    +1
    I think there is no need to make a grocery store out of a tank, hang anything on it. All ATGMs are low-velocity missiles. They are relatively easy to intercept. We need specialized tank escort vehicles that cover attackers from above from weapons. Like "Thor", it can only with lighter missiles sharpened for ATGMs. One car per company of tanks is probably enough. Don't get too carried away with versatility.
    1. Bayun
      Bayun 20 September 2022 13: 36
      -1
      100% agree!

      Each tank has a UAV-Helicopter (better - 2) with small anti-missile missiles and a short-range high-precision mini-machine gun. Helicopter drive - electric motors. The power option is autonomous from the battery or with a "lace" from the tank.

      Such a drone will be valuable in itself, and becoming the "eyes" of the tank, it will increase the security of the "dome" and the combat potential of use.
  25. Krasstar
    Krasstar 20 September 2022 00: 06
    -1
    On trial the military REFORM-GK of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the NGSH of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Otherwise, we won't win. Otherwise, Russia will be dismembered and we will all DIE of sadness ..
    And do we need it? So, under the COURT.
  26. Edvid
    Edvid 20 September 2022 00: 48
    +1
    Quote: NG inform
    You can shoot traps - some burning mesh shaped like a tank. Let the rocket fire over it.

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    It is possible to put a powerful heat-radiating headlight of the desired spectrum on the tank, and with the possibility of continuous scanning of the horizon. Its radiation must be sufficient to burn out the javelin's sensor.
  27. Demon_is_ada
    Demon_is_ada 20 September 2022 01: 27
    +3
    Let me put in my two cents as an engineer.
    All more or less modern anti-tank systems have optical channels, that is, matrices. The fastest and most primitive method is to burn the matrix with a laser. Optical detection station and laser. In principle, this is implemented on the part of the ka52.
    The second method is a puff shield made of dz, such as scales on a folding frame. Cheap and fast.
    1. ROSS_51
      ROSS_51 20 September 2022 06: 26
      -2
      Quote: Demon_is_ada
      Let me put in my two cents as an engineer.
      All more or less modern anti-tank systems have optical channels, that is, matrices. The fastest and most primitive method is to burn the matrix with a laser. Optical detection station and laser. In principle, this is implemented on the part of the ka52.
      The second method is a puff shield made of dz, such as scales on a folding frame. Cheap and fast.

      Well, calculate, as an engineer, how much it will weigh, how to mount this halabuda on the roof and how then to fight the blind crew.
      1. Demon_is_ada
        Demon_is_ada 21 September 2022 00: 16
        +1
        About 600 kg have already been calculated, based on contact-1. Browse and download will not interfere. And it is attached elementarily - by welding brackets to the tower, to the brackets there is already a structure. It consists of four elements, it is quite mobile for two people, take it off and put it on.
        1. ROSS_51
          ROSS_51 23 September 2022 18: 33
          0
          Quote: Demon_is_ada
          About 600 kg have already been calculated, based on contact-1. Browse and download will not interfere. And it is attached elementarily - by welding brackets to the tower, to the brackets there is already a structure. It consists of four elements, it is quite mobile for two people, take it off and put it on.

          What about the meaning? Your javelin puff pastry will strike with a triple margin.
          1. Demon_is_ada
            Demon_is_ada 23 September 2022 22: 32
            0
            Holy javelin? belay
            Well, to determine the penetration ability of the godfather of the ammunition, they are indirectly repelled from the diameter, that is, from the funnel. Judging by its diameter, it is clearly not a leader in this segment. The task is to spray the jet, the operation of four plates, moreover, spaced apart, will spray 90% of the jet, the rest will catch 40 mm of armor.
            And yet, no one bothers you to put another layer of dz on the tower. But it is unlikely to work, the residual velocity will be small for detonation.
            1. ROSS_51
              ROSS_51 24 September 2022 06: 31
              0
              Quote: Demon_is_ada
              Holy javelin? belay
              Well, to determine the penetration ability of the godfather of the ammunition, they are indirectly repelled from the diameter, that is, from the funnel. Judging by its diameter, it is clearly not a leader in this segment. The task is to spray the jet, the operation of four plates, moreover, spaced apart, will spray 90% of the jet, the rest will catch 40 mm of armor.
              And yet, no one bothers you to put another layer of dz on the tower. But it is unlikely to work, the residual velocity will be small for detonation.

              Excuse me, but with you from different realities .. What is the diameter of the funnel?
              Let's just stop this correspondence, otherwise I'm already scared that we have such "engineers" ..
              1. Demon_is_ada
                Demon_is_ada 25 September 2022 21: 01
                0
                I understand, you just have to throw on the fan.
                We really are from different realities
                hi
                1. ROSS_51
                  ROSS_51 27 September 2022 06: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Demon_is_ada
                  I understand, you just have to throw on the fan.
                  We really are from different realities
                  hi

                  No .. you seem to be completely out of touch with how a cumulative jet works ..
                  Go to Wikipedia, it is for people like you writeso .. and people like you ..))
                  I bow for sim ..))
                  1. Demon_is_ada
                    Demon_is_ada 27 September 2022 17: 12
                    0
                    Here the question is not how the jet works, but how it is formed, this is about the issue of the diameter of the ammunition. To get started, look not in the wiki, but in specialized sources wassat
                    But then, read it there and figure out how to neutralize it ...
                    then you can discuss something, except for throwing on the fan
                    hi
    2. Azimuth
      Azimuth 20 September 2022 13: 19
      +1
      Yes, germanium optics. It should glare in the UV spectrum so that before the shot it is fixed and counteracted. Curtain, 125mm HE, 30mm burst. At 5.45 infantry with sensors can keep their noses out. Thermal imagers must be fixed before he "fixes" you.
  28. NG inform
    NG inform 20 September 2022 01: 53
    0
    Make a small KAZ rocket, uniform for planes, tanks, and everything else. Make a print of such a rocket on a machine, and make a series of 10M pieces - so that each individual one is cheap.
  29. Mixweb
    Mixweb 20 September 2022 03: 47
    0
    Why praise these javelins so much? Yes, a good weapon in capable hands, but not a child prodigy. And in terms of armor penetration, not very. Otherwise my brother would not have survived. And so 3 javelins flew in - 2 on the forehead and 1 on the side, and not a single penetration. And this is on the t80, where the armor is not the best.
    1. Von_Schmidt
      Von_Schmidt 20 September 2022 08: 50
      0
      The problem is not in Java itself, but there will be more and more of them and other ATGMs similar to them, and the situation will be exactly the same as with aircraft now in Ukraine, we cannot ensure full-fledged air superiority, because every second Ukrainian has pockets of MANPADS stuffed
  30. Sergey Venediktov
    Sergey Venediktov 20 September 2022 07: 10
    0
    Article another slag, if only because, while advocating for reducing the thermal visibility of the tank, the author did not understand that visor if sandbags are placed on it and there is a heat and anti-tandem shield. The Javelin missile is weak, because. has a small caliber, so aiming to strike from above into the tower is easier for everyone to parry it thermal shading visor and triggering the first (leading) charge. A tank in general from above can be made absolutely invisible in the IR spectrum using elemental film thermal screens like the James Webb telescope, but is there any in our army intellectually developed officers, who could understand it?



    In fact, you don't need to invent anything. It is necessary to imprison and demote several generals for blocking the production of experimental batches of KAZ for testing them in local conflicts, which come from Afghanistan, i.e. since the 80s. The Russian Federation has FOUR types of experimental KAZ that could be adopted (Drozd-1,2 Arena 1,2) and absolute means of visual protection in the form of modern "curtains"




    KAZ Arena - all-round protection

    Once again for everyone about Javelin from his instructions. Read and analyze each word to understand how easy it would be to deceive the Javelin if someone read this manual.

    Infrared (IR) interference
    Infrared (IR) interference is a scene in which the surrounding area or background radiates as much or more heat than the target itself. This causes the target to blur or become undetectable Javelin system. Infrared interference can be natural or artificial. When a target enters an area containing high IR interference, the gunner may have to attempt to acquire the target using smaller tracking angles, or wait until the target leaves the IR interference area before being able to acquire the target. The missile seeker can also lose target lock due to no temperature difference (target/background), or if the background is hotter than the target.



    Has it reached all the experts? Those. if the tank is sprayed with cold water from a barrel installed at the rear, as ship guns are sprayed when firing, the tank becomes absolutely invisible to the IR guidance system, because WATER DOES NOT let through the IR spectrum of thermal waves that the Javelin uses. And so that the water does not become a guide, it must be cooled in the barrel below the background temperature (street temperature). The same effect can be obtained if, according to the signals of the ATGM attack sensors, compressed nitrogen is sprayed over the tank from the cylinder (it costs like soda). The cooled cloud will instantly hide the attacked tank for a while while the missile is flying. None of the above will be superfluous. can be regularly included in the fire system of the tank.
    And further. If an air conditioner is installed in the tank and it works, i.e. cools the tank relative to the front projection, and the air temperature in the tank is lower than the ambient temperature, then this has a positive effect on thermal visibility (it decreases).

    Finally buy our tankers hand-held thermal imagers, for example, Seek Thermal Compact - a usb prefix for a smartphone for 20 thousand rubles!, so that they can see themselves from the outside and be able to test their thermal disguise. Besides. A bunch of Javelins were captured - give them to the tankers too, so that they UNDERSTAND how they look in the IR spectrum, and how and with what it is possible to disrupt the Javelin's IR guidance. (this is written in the instructions for Javelin!)
  31. EvilLion
    EvilLion 20 September 2022 08: 56
    +3
    I would recommend not to teach engineers, they will probably do it without couch "analytics", but to read the good old book "10 Myths of the Second World War" by Alexei Isaev (by the way, he has long earned the Gold Star for valiant work in the field of brain alignment). The problem of hitting tanks is not fundamentally solved, any tank has always been, is and will have something to meet. Moreover, at the worst time for tanks, the situation can be close to such that it is enough to shoot at the tank at the silhouette.

    Solving the problem of ensuring the stability of the tank on the battlefield "on the forehead", that is, only
    booking was flawed. A more pragmatic approach was an integrated approach, when anti-tank artillery was simply knocked out in front of a tank with moderate armor protection, capable of hitting it. The main means of combating anti-tank guns during the Second World War was howitzer artillery and aviation. With well-established interaction with other branches of the military
    the enemy's anti-tank guns were knocked out for the most part during artillery and aviation preparations for a tank attack. That is why the Soviet tank troops advanced quite successfully in 1943-1945, despite the saturation of the Wehrmacht with 75-mm anti-tank guns. Already in 1943, the 75 mm caliber took a leading position among the means of destruction of Soviet tanks. In the Oryol operation in July 1943, 75-mm tank and anti-tank guns already gave 40,5% of hits against 23% - 50-mm and 26% - 88-mm. In the future, this trend continued, sometimes the number of hits from 75-mm shells reached 69,2% of hits (1st Belorussian Front, Vistula-Oder and Berlin operations). The task of creating a good tank in World War II was not really formulated in the form of "Stay on the pedestal
    miracle weapons". The T-34 tank brought the fight between anti-tank artillery and tanks to a new level, and this fight could already be fought regardless of the capabilities of the "thirty-four" to keep the PAK-40 strikes at all combat distances. The weighting of anti-tank guns, a decrease in their number in the Wehrmacht division made it possible, in cooperation with other branches of the armed forces, to successfully overcome anti-tank defenses.At the same time, they suffered losses quite adequate to the tasks being solved.Surviving after artillery preparation and hammered tightly into the ground, the guns soon found themselves and were suppressed by artillery or the fire of the tanks themselves.


    And here, in general, the same thing, hang any kind of remote sensing, visors, etc., if the enemy has an overabundance of anti-tank weapons, he will still disassemble the tank sooner or later. One missile will remove the DZ, the second will enter the side, in general, the tank, sooner or later, will break down to the point of impossibility of continuing to participate in the battle. An increase in millimeters of armor in any significant quantities requires the development of a new tank and a further increase in mass ("Armata" will not fundamentally change anything here, this is not a transition from BT-7 to T-34 with a 2-fold jump in combat weight). It is much more effective that the destruction of ATGM crews, especially since the Jewelin itself is a very expensive and hard-to-replace weapon.
  32. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 20 September 2022 09: 01
    +2
    Rather, with a truly massive distribution of such ammunition, the tactics of using tanks will change.

    1. RPGs, at one time, were the same asymmetric response. The logical decision was not to approach the infantry point-blank. Probably, and here the distance will simply grow.
    2. A very big question is what is the real consumption of these Javelins per one destroyed heavy tank. It may turn out that their total cost is higher than the cost of the tank.
    3. The frontal projection of most tanks is not protected from a number of anti-tank systems (having a significantly greater range, by the way). It would be interesting to know the statistics on the consumption of cornets or spikes per tank. It is possible that she is better than Javelin.
    4. The upper hemisphere is an order of magnitude easier to protect with active protection. A shell in the air is easier to detect, and its shelling is safer for your infantry. It may turn out that anti-javelin active defense (and at the same time anti-helfare) will be cheaper not only than the classic AZ, but also cheaper than this javelin.
  33. PXL
    PXL 20 September 2022 09: 03
    0
    Author, you will contact Kubinka with your proposals, to the specialized armored research institute of the RF Ministry of Defense.
  34. PXL
    PXL 20 September 2022 09: 06
    0
    And why didn't Javelins help NATO in Afghanistan? The Taliban didn't have tanks?))
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 20 September 2022 10: 52
      0
      NATO had almost none of them either. Although the Canadian Leo-1s showed themselves well even in scanty quantities. 105mm is cooler than 30mm. Suddenly.
      1. PXL
        PXL Yesterday, 18: 05
        0
        Javelins can not only be used against BTTs, but also against various fortifications, no?
  35. Alex92
    Alex92 20 September 2022 09: 15
    +1
    The shooting of IR traps came to mind, as in aviation ... How to produce, in response to what, is unclear. And so the option with a visor heated behind the tank was suggested here in the comments, I liked it)
  36. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 20 September 2022 10: 23
    +1
    The best protection against anti-tank systems and all other anti-tank weapons is the infantry accompanying the tank and the cannon of the tank itself.
  37. sawic1
    sawic1 20 September 2022 10: 25
    +1
    Perhaps in the distant future, the most important defense of the tank will be getting rid of the most vulnerable element of the crew, reducing the size, additional armor of the BC and all vital nodes, so that when they break through they do not burn out at once and are easily restored, or vice versa there will be light pilot tankettes without cheap ones on light armor with active defense, which will go to slaughter 300 meters ahead of the infantry so as not to be hit by the operation of the defense, and the purpose of which will be to break through the defense and quickly release the BC on the move to give the infantry a foothold
  38. cryolin
    cryolin 20 September 2022 11: 17
    -2
    Back in the spring, such a fefel arrestovich, with a smirk, urged to wait until the fall ... And in the fall, the devil will lead to the truth. Can we buy this arrestovich for the post of commander in chief? Prophecies somehow come true both in terms of technology and the intensity of passions ... And the people in the Donbas are dying and dying. Whom did the Commander-in-Chief come to protect?
  39. air wolf
    air wolf 20 September 2022 11: 21
    +1
    Talco active protection, shooting buckshot in the direction of the rocket!
    1. agond
      agond 20 September 2022 12: 46
      +1
      A better combination of active and passive protection, the same awnings can and should be made in the factory, and they can be made lifting partially collapsible, i.e. lift at the time of the rocket’s approach to a height of 1.5-2m above the tower, the rest of the time keep it at the lowest position (so as not to increase the dimensions of the tank and not to increase its center of gravity) an emergency drop of the visor should also be provided if necessary. kopak will give the effect of exploded armor
  40. Vadim K_2
    Vadim K_2 20 September 2022 14: 59
    -3
    Yes, Jewels are very cool things. The towers are being demolished with a bang. Himself had a chance to use near Kharkov. We burned a lot of Russians then autumn. NLAW is also a good thing. Russians burn beautifully after using it
  41. Altmann
    Altmann 20 September 2022 17: 53
    0
    The article is well written and I understand what it is about. Now I have to ask, who ordered the tanks to be sent to Ukraine in such a mass without protection?? So you knew everything and no one is to blame? I am very ashamed of you. am
  42. tank NATO
    tank NATO 20 September 2022 18: 00
    0
    Good day.
    I will allow myself a comment in a topic that puzzled me very much: is there any technology today on the basis of which it is possible to make another breakthrough in the protection systems of armored vehicles.

    So there is such a technology. Literally 10 years ago it would have been impossible, but humanity is improving not only in destruction, but also in creation.

    There is an idea that needs to be worked out and if it is sound test trials, the advice of competent people in this field is required.

    Unfortunately, the form of presenting one's ideas for the good of the Motherland, which exists on the website of the Moscow Region, is too confused. What was the question about, is it possible to express your thoughts about simple things more simply than drawing up some kind of application for consideration? The answer has not yet been received, apparently not.

    Can you suggest someone to convey your thoughts on this topic?

    I won't write anything here, paranoia. Suddenly, thousands of javelins would suddenly become ineffective. A potential enemy should not know about this.
  43. Arkady007
    Arkady007 21 September 2022 16: 45
    +1
    If the Javelins have IR guidance, they can try to use conventional IPP-26s from aviation for withdrawal. They can be shot with a pistol.
  44. ivan2022
    ivan2022 21 September 2022 21: 57
    0
    Javelin - 1989 development
    33 of the year has passed.

    Exactly as much as passed after the ancient Jews betrayed Christ. Who predicted to them: "There will be no stone left unturned here." And after 33 years they got a war with Rome.

    Given and we were 33 years old
    1. to repent of the betrayal we have committed of everything that could only be betrayed.
    2 And also for the development of counteraction to new types of weapons at that time. During such a time, it was possible to at least invent a bald trait, and not just the protection of tanks!

    SO . As a result, no repentance, no work. And the corresponding payoff. And the children of those who betrayed the Soviet oath in 1991 are dying. The world of God is just. Amen!!
  45. the same doctor
    the same doctor 22 September 2022 20: 54
    0
    In addition to thermal insulation on the roof, you can make a heat emitter on a remote rod 3 meters long. You can also simply shoot combustible checkers, as airplanes use. It's also a good idea to make a mobile lattice screen that can be moved like a shield in the direction of the threat. Once, and the grate rose three meters above the tower. Ra, and lowered herself so as not to unmask the silhouette. once - and closed the tank from the detected anti-tank weapon ... If it is made mirrored ... but this is already a new idea.
    .
    I want a prize for the idea of ​​a remote heat emitter. Give - you will have new ideas.
    1. Vladimir Semenov
      Vladimir Semenov 23 September 2022 14: 48
      0
      The Javelin has AI. I don’t know which one, but at least he will not react to a thermal spot.
      You need to know the thermal signature of the tank - this is how the Javelin thermal imager sees the tank. Next, we recreate it with high intensity, for example, with heated metallized strips on a fabric stretched on a holder behind the tank. There, the Javelin will explode.
      This idea of ​​mine is four years old. Sent, but no one is interested ...
  46. Ekaterina
    Ekaterina 29 September 2022 12: 35
    0
    Dear military! There is an idea to protect our military equipment from this muck called "javelin", maybe the idea will seem ridiculous to someone, but perhaps some kind of reasonable grain can be taken from this. I propose to carry a trailer "oven" or a device higher in temperature than the tank itself, the vehicle, as a result, the crew will survive