Military Review

What is there, in the field behind the "Armata"?

422
What is there, in the field behind the "Armata"?

Today, when more and more equipment, actually taken from the storerooms, is participating in the SVO, I want to think about the future. About the prospect of new equipment appearing in the Russian army, which will be able to turn the tide of any military conflict. So to say, not quantity, but quality.


This requires an understanding of what is in general in service with the Russian army today and what models may be in service tomorrow.

Armored vehicles


Tanks: T-72, T-80, T-90. All three models developed from the times of the USSR, the T-90 is a deep modernization of the T-72.

Perspective: T-14 Armata.


The T-14 project is a continuation of the developments of the Soviet era on the topic of a tank for network-centric warfare. Hence, the T-14 is not an MBT, according to the concept of network-centric warfare, it is used primarily as a reconnaissance vehicle, target designation and fire adjustment for self-propelled guns, air defense systems and T-90 tanks as part of a tactical level.

Time of work: since 2009.

Title: has been tested since 2020. In fact, the T-14 turned out to be so expensive that it was not practical to use it for its intended purpose. Therefore, they continued to release the T-80BVM and T-72B3.

BMPT "Terminator"


Work began in the 80s of the last century, that is, in the USSR. Continued from 1998 to 2002. A trial series was made, state tests were passed, according to the results of which the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation refused to mass production.

Status: not produced.

Infantry support equipment.


The BMP-1, BMP-2, BMP-3, BTR-80 and BTR-82A are presented, which are Soviet developments.

Perspective: "Object 693" and "Object 695" family "Kurganets".


Status: tested since 2017. Not produced, not released. The Ministry of Defense refused to purchase. In reality, the machine has a huge number of shortcomings, ranging from an illiterate layout to a huge cost.

Perspective: BM T-15 of the Armata project.


Status: indeterminate. We can confidently say that it will not go into mass production for the most important reason - cost.

Missile forces and artillery


OTRK "Iskander". Work began in the USSR in the 80s of the last century.

MLRS "Grad", "Hurricane", "Smerch" were developed in the USSR.


The MLRS of the Tornado family are a modernization of the MLRS Grad and Smerch.

Barrel Artillery


Absolutely all the artillery of the Russian army ("Malka", "Peony", "Hyacinth", "Carnation", "Acacia", "Msta", "Khosta", "Nona") was developed in the USSR.

Perspective: self-propelled guns "Coalition-SV".


The first truly Russian development. It is based on several Soviet projects, but the Coalition was really born in Russia. However, despite the report of the former Deputy Prime Minister for the military-industrial complex Yuri Borisov that in 2018 the Coalition-SV completed a cycle of state tests, there is no information about the start of mass production and putting into service in 2022.

Anti-tank missile systems


Without exception, all anti-tank systems of the Russian army were created in the USSR. Including the "newest" "Chrysanthemum-S", the development of which was completed by S.P. Invincible in the 90s of the last century, and the development task was issued in 1981.

Outlook: no.

Hand-held anti-tank weapons

There are two really new RPG models, RPG-28 and RPG-30, in service here, taking into account the emergence of modern dynamic protection.

Small arms

Everything is completely and completely, from machine guns to pistols, with the exception of the ASVK sniper rifle - a Soviet design.

The prospect is more than doubtful.

Anti-aircraft missile systems


In addition to the S-500, which is classified, all other air defense systems of the Russian army were developed in the USSR and, to one degree or another, are further upgrades of previously developed systems.

The prospect is the S-500, about which there is almost no data.

Portable anti-aircraft missile systems.


The secular upgrades of the Strela and Igla are being replaced by the new Verba complex. MANPADS are really new, so it’s too early to think about a replacement here, although you can already start on a more modern model.

RHBZ / MLRS machines


All heavy flamethrower systems were developed in the USSR.

Engineering technology


The main majority, again, the development of the USSR, but in engineering vehicles there are inclusions of completely new technology, but not more than 12-15%.

Air Force


Fighter aviation consists entirely of Soviet-designed aircraft and their upgrades.


Perspective: Su-57 produced in single copies without much hope for the future. They say that there is not enough space at the plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. And there are no more factories that can be involved in the production of fighters.

Frontline Aviation 100% consists of Soviet-designed aircraft, both bombers and attack aircraft.

Prospects are not.

Strategic and long-range aviation are 100% Soviet-designed aircraft.

Prospects are not. Work on the PAK DA project has been curtailed, instead of them, the production of the Tu-160M ​​has been re-mastered.

Transport aircraft. 100% consists of Soviet-designed aircraft.

Training aviation. Here is the Yak-130, the first aircraft designed and built in Russia.


In this regard, we can assume that the direction is closed, since the service life of the training aircraft is somewhat different from the usual one.

army aviation (helicopters). 100% consists of Soviet-designed machines and their modifications.

Which of the above, and there were many, can you conclude?

The conclusion, let's say, is not very beautiful. Despite numerous statements and demonstrations at exhibitions and forums, the Russian army is still a partially modernized Soviet army of the 80s of the last century. This is a fact.

Over the 30 years of Russia's existence, the military-industrial complex of the country was able to develop not so much. And take into service even less. In fact, the list is not very large:
- multifunctional fighter Su-57;
- training aircraft Yak-130;
- S-400 air defense system;
- S-500 air defense system;
- MANPADS "Verba";
- ASVK rifle;
- AK-12 and AK-15 assault rifles, which can hardly be considered new developments.

Yes, there are many new engineering and auxiliary vehicles on the chassis of modern vehicles, but they practically do not appear on the battlefield. The war is not won with the help of engineering machines, alas.

I absolutely do not want to say anything about the fact that Soviet technology is outdated and good for nothing. As practice has shown, even the T-62 can fit in modern combat.

The question is different. The question is that the huge machine of the Russian military-industrial complex with research institutes, design bureaus, design bureaus, factories is 95% engaged in the modernization of Soviet technology.

On the one hand, technology and weapon, created in the USSR, had great potential for modernization. It's fine. On the other hand, there, at the enemy, they already perfectly know all the strengths and weaknesses of this weapon. And, accordingly, experts are able to calculate how much these or other characteristics of a tank or aircraft will improve. And develop methods to deal with them.

Separately, I would like to say a few words about Russian electronic warfare systems. A check in the NWO showed that such luxurious and demolishing Russian sets in the air ... to put it mildly, not so “not having”. Although, indeed, without a real overwhelming advantage. The same Krasuhi, from the shows of which everyone was choked with emotions, in reality did not show what they were supposed to.

Much of the "not having" in fact turns out to be the same old Soviet one, but on a different element base. Although there are positive aspects: the equipment has become more compact, there are fewer cars, it has become more spacious and comfortable for calculations inside.

Today on the territory of Ukraine there is something that has been talked about so much and for which, in general, they have been preparing for several decades: a war with NATO. Yes, while “only” the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being strengthened by NATO means, making the war more fierce. Yes, we are not happy with this, but ...

I think that this is it, that confrontation. Russia vs NATO. And the comparison is not at the level of experts, in cozy studios and on sofas. The comparison is on the battlefields. And it’s not the TTX numbers that are compared, the combat capabilities of the equipment are compared in the complex, at the battalion, regimental, brigade levels. And vulnerabilities are tested in practice. And they are checked by mothering NATO military experts, immediately developing recommendations for counteraction.


Considering that the material base in terms of weapons in Russia and Ukraine was almost the same, problems and difficulties are becoming more and more day by day.

Rearmament will sooner or later become a necessity of tomorrow. Today, the Russian army, with its capabilities, is quite enough to terrorize the terrorists in Syria and the toy army of Georgia. To really fight seriously you need serious weapons. And this, excuse me, is not fifty-year-old tanks with mounted elements of the old DZ. It is the old one, because there is no money for a new one. As there is no money for the same tank sights, for Relics.

But there is money to show off. That's what we always have money for. Robotic dogs with grenade launchers, reconnaissance mini-drones... assembled from Chinese designers from Ali Express.


Evil is not enough to read about how a Chinese designer with a pipe stuck on his "back" "made a splash at the Army-2022 exhibition."

Personally, I'm more concerned about the lack of normal equipment in the army: shoes, armor, thermal imagers, drones and first aid kits. The lack of decent computing equipment among gunners and so on.

I have already raised this topic more than once, the topic of how much money is mediocrely thrown into the marketing activities of the managers of the Ministry of Defense in the form of entertainment for the fighters of the advanced armies of Sudan, Myanmar, Laos, Kyrgyzstan, Zimbabwe and Kazakhstan. At the expense of Russia, of course.

And the citizens of Russia continue to raise money to buy their soldiers what the Ministry of Defense, which spent money on entertainment, cannot buy.

Of course, the bravura reports that the events of the next "army games" were attended by two million people are very impressive. This raises the country's defense capability so much, it just sows panic among the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ... And the fact that during the next window dressing, where the Russian team expectedly won (otherwise, why fence the garden?), The real army lost some more (naturally, classified) number of fighters due to the lack of first-aid kits and armor.

The question arises: why do we need dozens of research institutes, design bureaus, design bureaus, and so on, if they are not able to ensure the development and evolution of the weapons of the Russian army? The most elementary ones, those that are lacking in the NWO today?

I don't mean fairy tales about unmanned destroyers of continents under the sky and under the sky, I mean tanks, guns, planes, anti-aircraft missiles and so on down the list.

The main problem of the military-industrial complex of today's Russia is that no one wants to work. Of course, it is very easy to buy a children's construction set from the Chinese, repaint it and pass it off as another win that has no analogues in the world. Or ditch three suitcases of money to develop what the army does not need. Like, for example, the MiG-35. Or "Kurganets-25".

Of course, this does not apply to everyone. There are enterprises whose research institutes work and will continue to work with maximum efficiency. The same "Almaz-Antey". Although Almaz-Antey could direct part of its efforts to develop the successor to Zoo-1M, which was developed again in the 80s of the last century and is definitely not a competitor to American counter-battery firing systems.

The question asked in the table of contents regarding the capabilities of the Russian military-industrial complex does not require an answer. And so it is quite clear and understandable that our military-industrial complex is simply not able to meet all the needs of the Russian army tomorrow.

Thank God, in Kazan they remembered how to build the Tu-160. It is possible that there will be a place in the KnAAZ workshops for the construction of the Su-57, perhaps the problem can be solved at the expense of another plant (hint - VASO has been standing and has not produced anything for more than 20 years). Perhaps they will complete the T-14 production plant, although in modern conditions this is more than doubtful.

The main problem is that not only is there no one to develop modern technology, in a country that puts everything on the map of management, there is a shortage (I would say hunger) in engineers. The second part of the problem is the course of the entire Putin team, which can be expressed by the principle “We cannot produce, we will buy”. Now it sounds “We can’t produce, we will buy from others.” The Russian industry itself, excuse me, is capable of very little.

SVO and all the negatives associated with it, today shows that Russian technology is in no way superior to Ukrainian and not the most advanced NATO technology. As far as reconnaissance means are concerned, the complete superiority of NATO over Russia was indicated here. Satellites, AWACS aircraft, UAVs - the Ukrainian army has a complete picture of what is happening, unlike the Russian one.

There is only one way to overcome this - rearmament. For new models of equipment that will be at least equal to NATO equipment in reality, and not on paper. This is especially true of everything related to obtaining tactical and strategic information.

You can sit and digest budget money for as long as you like, endlessly upgrading the T-72 or AK-74. But sooner or later, any modernization potential of any equipment will end. And then we will need a new technique, which we will not have. It will not be because today there are no engineers and designers who will develop it, there are no production facilities where it will be made by the hands of workers, who will not be there either.

The lessons of NWO in any case must be learned. Otherwise, going out into the field near Belgorod, behind the rusty model of the "Armata" you can see only the boundless Ukrainian steppe.
Author:
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  1. Proton
    Proton 17 September 2022 04: 43
    +75
    The article is correct.
    First of all, it is necessary to carry out the industrialization of industry, without the rise of the real sector of the economy, we will carry socks and calculators from China.
    In the meantime, only gas stations and shopping centers are being built.
    1. Sotnik11.74
      Sotnik11.74 17 September 2022 05: 00
      +37
      It looks like a joke..
      Now the same China will not allow you to carry out any industrialization ..
      Why should they? And where to sell socks with calculators and where to take oil and gas at half price then ..
      By the way, let me remind you that the United States helped in many ways in Stalin's industrialization
      1. nikto-nikak
        nikto-nikak 17 September 2022 05: 49
        +41
        The United States helped because the Great Depression began in 1929, and they wanted to earn extra money ... And also to make the war between the USSR and Europe more interesting for them ... And, it seems, history will repeat itself in the near future ... Only now, apart from US earnings will want us to fight with China ...
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 17 September 2022 06: 17
          +77
          The people who pay taxes going to the army are silenced everywhere, they only have to ask where is the “unparalleled” one, where are these very 75% of the latest technology, modern designs that were recently announced? Where is this very, equipped with the latest word "second army of the world"?
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 17 September 2022 06: 43
            +52
            The Soviet Army for 30 years (1960-1990) made a giant leap in armaments. Qualitatively, and most importantly - quantitatively. New items were produced not only for exhibitions and reports! It is these weapons that form the basis of our army so far.

            And what has been done in Russia over the past 30 years? Judging by the words of the Minister of Defense, the army literally rose from its knees:

            . The equipment of the Russian army with modern weapons exceeds 70%, which is the highest rate in the world, said the head of the military department of the Russian Federation Sergei Shoigu.

            But why can't we, having the most updated army in the world, defeat the natives from a neighboring country, who easily turn off the front for us in a matter of days?
            1. Hog
              Hog 17 September 2022 11: 46
              -4
              The Soviet Army for 30 years (1960-1990) made a giant leap in armaments. Qualitatively, and most importantly - quantitatively.

              An interesting statement, but it has nothing to do with the current situation.
              Yes, in the union during this time, the MIG-15 with some guns was replaced by the Su-27 with missiles at 60 km or the T-55 by the T-80U, but now it is physically impossible to make such a breakthrough, this requires completely different technologies.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 17 September 2022 12: 22
                +31
                Quote: Hog
                but now it is physically impossible to make such jerkFor this, completely different technologies are needed.

                Why do we need all the time jerks and breakthroughs were said, and also about the fact that there is no time for buildup? Did you know it's impossible?

                China 30 years ago was a backward country with a poor population. The starting positions were completely different (worse) compared to us. And now, thanks jerk China has become a new superpower and salaries there have long been higher than Russian ones. But our people are capable of a stronger breakthrough than the Chinese. The rate of growth of the gross product in the USSR has not yet been beaten by anyone in the world.

                But what is typical. All these jerks, both in the USSR then, and in China now, the communists fulfilled - ideological people for whom nothing is impossible.
                1. UAZ 452
                  UAZ 452 17 September 2022 13: 02
                  -12
                  All these breakthroughs, both in the USSR then and in China now, were carried out by the communists - ideological people for whom nothing is impossible.

                  This is the real truth. The collapse of the USSR also came under the leadership of the CPSU (all others claiming leadership had long been eliminated by that time). Ah, sorry - the traitors in the ranks are to blame, but this is what seemed impossible - when traitors made up most of it in a multi-million dollar structure. But for the communists, there really is nothing impossible - even to make a country dependent on grain imports, which for centuries was one of its main world exporters (and again became it, but without the communists), at least out of the blue, without any war and plague, bring this country (the largest in the world! the second economy in the world!) to collapse and collapse. Or were they the wrong bees (communists)? Where are the correct ones? And what were they doing? How was it allowed?
                  1. Essex62
                    Essex62 17 September 2022 13: 20
                    +6
                    Umnik. If those who are supposed to defend the socio-political system change it themselves, having all the levers, including the power ones, no party (ordinary members) will be able to resist this. There is nothing to say about the layman. The capitalist West began to change the psychology of the Soviet people a very long time ago and invested huge resources in this matter. Unfortunately, the selfish beginning in homo-hapiense is inherent in nature. They played on this, there, behind the Berlin Wall, the specialists of the ideological war, it was not in vain that they ate their bread.
                    And I’m already tired of grain. Neither in the Republic of Ingushetia, nor in the USSR, nor in the Russian Federation, high yields, elite varieties of grain, from which the sieve bun is baked, have not been and will not be. The climate is not the same. I live in the countryside. Around the field, one continuous rapeseed.
                    1. UAZ 452
                      UAZ 452 17 September 2022 13: 55
                      -12
                      I understood that the communists were right in everything, only now they got the irresponsible people. And who are those who "should defend the socio-political system, change it themselves, having all the levers, including the power ones"? I sinfully thought that all these structures were under the strict control of the top of the CPSU? Traitors again? And there is no need to separate the top - the Politburo, the Central Committee and the "ordinary" members of the party - if they, poor things, did not know anything, could not influence anything, then why the hell is such a party needed? And were there any "communists" in reality, at least from the 60s, if the top was screwed up, and the rank and file did not influence anything? And which of them are the same communists for whom nothing is impossible, even to fall in love with the country in which they owned all the power and all the levers of influence?
                      1. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 17 September 2022 14: 11
                        +28
                        What are your influences in EP? The only difference is that about 3 million communists and Komsomol members lay down at the front, but you cannot drag members of the United Russia to the front. They sent poor Turchak in a vest to promise in Kupyansk that "Russia is forever" and that was the end of the "party contribution".
                      2. UAZ 452
                        UAZ 452 17 September 2022 14: 18
                        -14
                        In the EP, I do not influence anything, and this is normal, since I am not a member of it. And he was once a member of the Komsomol, and also did not influence anything.
                        And much more than 3 million went into the Patriotic War, and most of them, it turns out, were non-party. So I can’t understand the essence of this argument of yours - to divide the dead in that war into the first grade - communists, the second - Komsomol members, and the third - non-party? Yes ... Rottenness in the CPSU, it turns out, sprouted even before the 60s - how else to regard the fact that even those who died for the Motherland were divided into "ours" and "others".
                      3. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 17 September 2022 15: 02
                        +16
                        Without the backbone of the Communists, the non-Party would have fled. That is why the Germans shot the commissars in the first place. It was the CPSU (b) that organized the mobilization and deployment of industry in the East. It was the CPSU (b) that ensured the concentration of efforts on advanced weapons. Yes, largely thanks to the personality of Stalin. With his elimination, a behind-the-scenes struggle began, which ordinary communists did not even know about, although Mao already then announced the degeneration of Soviet leaders. Nevertheless, the Soviet system even then provided a retirement age of 55/60 years and electricity at 3 kopecks per kWh. The social ideal was the working people, not idlers with money. Since the emphasis was on the development of domestic production, a high level of education and health care was provided. Now they are simply not needed by the "ruling class". And there was resistance to the cannibalistic "reforms" of the late 80-90s - just remember 1993, when the tanks of the Kantemirovskaya division, now abandoned somewhere near Kharkov, hit the White House.
                      4. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 17 September 2022 18: 55
                        -13
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        there was resistance to the cannibalistic "reforms" of the late 80s and 90s - just remember 1993

                        Yes, yes, out of 150 million ... how many came out of that one? 2-3 thousand...
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        Nevertheless, the Soviet system even then provided a retirement age of 55/60 years.

                        And how many children in the families were you don’t want to remember ...
                      5. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 06: 12
                        +4
                        And how many of you left when the retirement age was raised? Not a soul. Although Putin did not shoot at you from tanks and the Israeli special forces did not write to Moscow.
                      6. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 18 September 2022 07: 46
                        -13
                        For example, the pension reform does not outrage me ... on the contrary, I was surprised that they did not raise it. Because it's long overdue. And you don’t translate the arrows, you first answer mine.
                      7. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 08: 44
                        +11
                        Haha! Overdue! "25 million high-tech jobs" are ripe and these people would receive deductions from their salaries to the Social Insurance Fund, due to which pensions are paid. But there are no these "high-tech places". But there is Mints, who calmly exports billions of pension savings from the country. You probably haven't heard about it...
                      8. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 18 September 2022 16: 28
                        -8
                        Ha ha ha? Is that all you could say? However, I'm not surprised, it's in the order of things for you to avoid topics that are uncomfortable for you, taking you aside ...
                      9. Deon59
                        Deon59 19 September 2022 19: 12
                        -2
                        can a Tajik receive unemployment benefits in Russia?
                      10. Deon59
                        Deon59 19 September 2022 19: 10
                        -2
                        And the fine starts from 200 rubles, there would be many who would like to.
                      11. UAZ 452
                        UAZ 452 18 September 2022 09: 29
                        0
                        Without the backbone of the Communists, the non-Party people would have fled.

                        Wow! It’s just amazing - how, in the Patriotic War of 1812, was Napoleon driven out of a country without communists? After all, everyone should have run away!
                      12. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 10: 03
                        0
                        Only 1 World lost. Under the tsar, Orthodoxy, the crunch of a French roll. The commander of artillery, however, did not get out of Paris ...
                      13. UAZ 452
                        UAZ 452 18 September 2022 10: 27
                        -2
                        But how, under the communists, they won the so-called Belofinsky then! Especially the ratio of losses (you can easily find specific numbers) inspires! And the Polish campaign of Tukhachevsky already happened under the Bolsheviks / Communists. But the uprising of the Tambov peasants, using chemical weapons against the citizens of their own state, was successfully suppressed, you can’t argue with that.
                      14. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 10: 59
                        +3
                        In the Belofinsky, if not forgotten, the border from Leningrad was pushed back, which saved him a year later. Mannerheim set up the same blockade of the city as the Germans. Apparently, for this, people from St. Petersburg gates now hang memorial plaques for him. In the Civil War, the Bolsheviks were the only force that united the country, since the entire "white movement" was sucked by the "allies". And traded Russian territories.
                      15. The comment was deleted.
                      16. UAZ 452
                        UAZ 452 18 September 2022 11: 09
                        0
                        Well, yes - the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, this had nothing to do with trade in territories. If not for the defeat of Germany, then none of the "ceded" to Russia would never have returned.
                        As for the pushed back borders - doesn't it bother you that the Finnish troops near Leningrad reached just the old border? I am not at all hinting at the nobility of the Finns, which was not and could not be. But if there was no pushback of the border, why would you think that the Finns could break directly into Leningrad? But in the Red Army there would be a hundred thousand fighters who were not killed or maimed in the winter war, more.
                      17. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 11: 17
                        -4
                        With your advice on how to act in 1918 and 1940, you are 104 and 82 years late, respectively. The Bolsheviks defended the country and there is no need for subjunctive moods here. The connoisseurs of Ilyin and bottles of vodka have squandered territories much larger than the Brest World, but you keep quiet about them. By the way, even under the Provisional Government, behind-the-scenes negotiations began on the recognition of "independent Ukraine", and then the "independents" were asked to just wait a bit.
                      18. UAZ 452
                        UAZ 452 18 September 2022 11: 30
                        -1
                        The connoisseurs of Ilyin and bottles of vodka have squandered territories much larger than the Brest World, but you keep quiet about them.

                        About them, or rather, about what party they came from, just you keep quiet. And it would be okay from the rank and file members, and even from the very top, over the decades they have passed all the steps of the nomenklatura ladder. No, no need to dissociate yourself, these are your shots.
                      19. The comment was deleted.
                      20. UAZ 452
                        UAZ 452 18 September 2022 11: 44
                        0
                        How cleverly you are from the collapse of the USSR, from Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Shevardnadze and other "traitors" (in quotation marks, because, it turns out, there was no one at all in the Politburo of the late Soviet period, except traitors, about the absurdity of which against the backdrop of your glorification of the communists, I already wrote ) to the next period, where former communists also "became famous", but already jumped from several lower levels of the hierarchy! So your cadres destroyed the USSR, there were no others then, only you were in charge, you can now try to excuse yourself, but it will not work.
                      21. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 13: 16
                        -1
                        In the Politburo, in addition to Gorbachev and Yeltsin, there were Romanov, and Grishin, and Shcherbitsky, and Ligachev, and Vorotnikov. All of them lived out their lives in extremely straitened circumstances. As for Yeltsin, Gorbachev and all others, careerists and crooks will try to cling to any ruling party. EP only consists of such. In the VKP(b) and the CPSU, on the other hand, there were those who thought about the long-term interests of the country.
                      22. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 19 September 2022 11: 06
                        +6
                        Quote: UAZ 452
                        As for the pushed back borders - doesn't it bother you that the Finnish troops near Leningrad reached just the old border?

                        Those who know the circumstances of Mannerheim's stop order are not embarrassed. The Finns ran into the main line of defense of the KAUR, which in these two months they managed to bring to mind and at least somehow fill with infantry.
                        Quote: UAZ 452
                        But if there was no pushback of the border, why would you think that the Finns could break directly into Leningrad?

                        With the fact that in this scenario, the Finns would start right at this main line of defense. On the Sestroretsk and Beloostrovsky directions, KAUR did not have a foreground - there was simply nowhere to do it. In Beloostrov, DOS were stationed a couple of kilometers from the border, at the former crossing.
                        Given the traditional mess in the transition period from peace to war, the Finns had a chance to crank out their version of the Eben-Emael adventure, capturing the coastal BROs with a sudden DOS strike.
                        Quote: UAZ 452
                        But in the Red Army there would be a hundred thousand fighters who were not killed or maimed in the winter war, more.

                        Without the Finnish War in the Red Army, the Voroshilov show would have been like that, when according to reports we have invincible and legendary, but in fact - the NPO does not know how many personnel it has, does not have permanent staffs of formations, action plans in case of war, and even a mobplan . Assignees were last checked 10 years ago. And the level of training of personnel froze at the level of "unsatisfactory."
                        When checking, they say: "Explain the tank," and the head of the school offers: "Check the crawl and hand-to-hand combat, he will do everything for you."
                        © Materials of the meeting of the top leadership of the Red Army on December 23-31, 1940 Fedorenko Ya. N., lieutenant general of the tank troops, head of the GABTU.
                        The SEF was a bloody lesson that pulled the rose-colored glasses of jingoistic patriotism from the eyes of political power. Without it, I'm afraid, in 1941 we could repeat the Polish scenario.
                      23. Jose
                        Jose 19 September 2022 15: 03
                        +1
                        Not only did they run into KAUR, but also into the zone of fire of large-caliber artillery of the Baltic Fleet (both ships, and forts, and railways, and the Rzhev NIMAP).
                      24. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 19 September 2022 16: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: Jose
                        Not only did they run into KAUR, but also into the zone of fire of large-caliber artillery of the Baltic Fleet (both ships, and forts, and railways, and the Rzhev NIMAP).

                        And this is part of the KaUR defense system. smile The use of BF artillery to support the defense of the UR was planned even at the construction stage - even a stationary naval correction post was equipped next to the railway, on the Dibuny-Beloostrov stretch.
                      25. your1970
                        your1970 18 September 2022 18: 44
                        +4
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        Mannerheim set up the same blockade of the city as the Germans. Apparently, for this, people from St. Petersburg gates now hang memorial plaques for him

                        Stalin was "a native of the St. Petersburg gates" or, more terrible, a liberal !!! - when he crossed out Mannerheim from the lists of Nuremberg ???!!!
                        Won what ...
                      26. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 20: 08
                        +1
                        When Stalin crossed out Mannerheim's name from the lists, Soviet submarines were stationed in Finland.
                      27. your1970
                        your1970 18 September 2022 21: 12
                        +3
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        When Stalin crossed out Mannerheim's name from the lists, Soviet submarines were stationed in Finland.

                        That is technical and military difficulties in question hangings Mannerheim for the death of people in the blockade was not ?! Did I understand you correctly?
                        That is, Stalin - according to your statement - changed the death of the blockade to the deployment of submarines?
                      28. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 19 September 2022 05: 27
                        0
                        Stalin ensured, in fact, the colonial status of Finland, strengthening the security of the USSR. Such goals should be set before a statesman, and not the triumph of justice on a global scale. Tell me better what Putin exchanged for the death of submariners, saying: "She drowned"?
                      29. your1970
                        your1970 19 September 2022 06: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        Stalin ensured, in fact, the colonial status of Finland, strengthening the security of the USSR. Such goals should be set before a statesman, and not the triumph of justice on a global scale.

                        what prevented - since it is a colony !!! - hang Mannerheim and appoint someone else?
                      30. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 19 September 2022 06: 31
                        -1
                        It is a pity that you were not next to Stalin 80 years ago - you would have prompted! In fact, to indicate how it was necessary to fight when the battle was won by others is a simple matter. You will now try to at least ensure the neutral status of Finland, and then we will talk about Stalin.
                      31. your1970
                        your1970 19 September 2022 07: 21
                        -2
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        It is a pity that you were not next to Stalin 80 years ago - you would have prompted!
                        that is, do you agree that Stalin, with his not hanging Mannerheim, and his followers - with a memorial plaque - did the same thing - politely reminded Finland that it was quite possible to hang Mannerheim (and he well deserved it) - but as a sign of respect for Finland (and also for its neutrality!) Did they not do this?
                        Do you agree?
                      32. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 19 September 2022 08: 45
                        +1
                        There is no need to equate a lion (even a dead one) with jackals. You do not know all the circumstances in which Stalin acted, and neither do I. However, this does not negate the difference in the result: if Stalin ensured the "calmness of our borders" in the North-West, then the hangers of memorial plaques to Mannerheim turned out to be either "half-educated magicians" or traitors, increasing Russia's military risks from Finland by an order of magnitude.
                      33. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 19 September 2022 09: 17
                        +1
                        By the way, Finnish armored personnel carriers are already fighting against us in Ukraine, but the bombs under Russia were planted exclusively by Lenin ...
                      34. your1970
                        your1970 19 September 2022 09: 25
                        -1
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        hangers of memorial plaques to Mannerheim

                        The hangers of the boards - postponed Finland's entry into NATO for at least a year. Before the hanging, the Finns began a discussion with NATO - after the hanging, they refused to allow NATO representatives to come .... the gap between the events is one and a half to two months ...
                        Unlike Stalin, we cannot hang the head of Finland now
                      35. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 19 September 2022 11: 18
                        +1
                        Yes, you not only cannot hang the head of Finland, you cannot even shoot at the head of Ukraine in Izyum, because you really need an agreement with "a gang of drug addicts and Nazis who have settled in Kyiv." They simply offered themselves to these drug addicts. And pushing back the country's entry into a military bloc with the help of a commemorative plaque is something new in the country's military-political arsenal. However, the Little Prince Exupery ordered the Sun to rise in the east and set in the west.
                      36. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 19 September 2022 10: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: UAZ 452
                        But the uprising of the Tambov peasants, using chemical weapons against the citizens of their own state, was successfully suppressed, you can’t argue with that.

                        You judge the past from the point of view of the present times, when chemical weapons are a fierce bastard, and the one who used them is considered a complete marginal. At the beginning of the 20s, the attitude towards chemical weapons was like nuclear weapons in the early 50s - just another type of weapon. Someday our descendants will poke their fingers and wrinkle their noses in us - fu, they used thermobaric weapons ... it's so inhumane, beam weapons and plasma are much better.
                        By the way, since we are talking about the Tambov region. The chemical weapons used there are still regularly used against civilians... to check the fit of gas masks. For shells with chloropicrin were used there. And after the inspection, the gas-balloon company with chlorine that arrived was sent back - more of its materiel and personnel were more dangerous for their own.
                      37. Stas157
                        Stas157 18 September 2022 12: 20
                        -1
                        Quote: UAZ 452
                        Wow! It's just amazing - how, in the Patriotic War of 1812, Napoleon was expelled from a country without communists? After all, everyone should have run away!

                        You do not compare that elite with the current one. Because she looks very faded compared to real nobles.

                        Then any nobleman - in fact an officer, blue blood - in the event of a war found himself on the front line and considered it an honor to sacrifice his stomach for the tsar, for faith and the fatherland ... The current oligarchs, bureaucrats and United Russia people are terribly far from risking their comfort like that .
                      38. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 17 September 2022 19: 00
                        -5
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        What are your influences in EP? The only difference is that about 3 million communists and Komsomol members lay down at the front, but you cannot drag members of the United Russia to the front. They sent poor Turchak in a vest to promise in Kupyansk that "Russia is forever" and that was the end of the "party contribution".

                        Do you have data on party lists of SVO participants? There are definitely only a few from the communists there.
                      39. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 06: 14
                        +2
                        If EP were there, they would already blow on all channels, especially before the elections! Before the elections, EP notes every children's sandbox, put on budget money, but opened by its functionaries.
                      40. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 18 September 2022 07: 49
                        -4
                        Yes. I don’t know, but I’m sure ... it’s people like you who brought the USSR to the handle.
                      41. The comment was deleted.
                      42. The comment was deleted.
                      43. The comment was deleted.
                      44. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 19 September 2022 09: 01
                        -4
                        Are hypersonic missiles also tell me Soviet developments? By the way, almost all the technology in the world is the developments of the last century.
                      45. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 19 September 2022 09: 15
                        +3
                        Surely, hypersonic missiles are based on Soviet developments. And there is no need to nod at "all the equipment of the world", if industrialization took place in the USSR in 10 years and tanks and planes appeared that were not inferior to German ones, and in 30 years we have not had anything comparable at least with the Haimars. All this time, Roscosmos has been busy selling rocket engines (Soviet developments) to the United States, with the help of which satellites are put into orbit, directing Hymars to Russian targets. Money doesn't smell...
                      46. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 19 September 2022 09: 26
                        -5
                        Quote: Boris Sergeev
                        Surely, and hypersonic missiles based on Soviet developments

                        And this is all your knowledge... in the word "for sure"
                      47. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 19 September 2022 10: 19
                        -1
                        You are the only one with us, an "encyclopedist" - from hypersound to the history of World War II.
                      48. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 19 September 2022 16: 35
                        -6
                        So educate yourself, who is bothering you ... you will also become an encyclopedist. May be.
                      49. Tech_Orchestra
                        Tech_Orchestra 17 September 2022 16: 07
                        -8
                        You're right. The USSR, in essence, throughout its existence was not a democratic state, because in the partocracy everything was chosen by a party cabal.
                      50. bayard
                        bayard 18 September 2022 01: 04
                        +5
                        Quote from: Tech_Orchestra
                        The USSR, in essence, throughout its existence was not a democratic state, because in the partocracy everything was chosen by a party cabal.

                        Come on ?? belay
                        Do you want to remember the Windsor family?
                        About that cabal that rules America?
                        Or can you get into it (cabal) through democratic elections?
                        Demos - people.
                        And all the countries of the Socialist Camp were, were called and legally listed as COUNTRIES OF PEOPLE'S DEMOCRACY. bully
                        Like this .
                        And what kind of "democracy" does the bourgeoisie (and now ours) have? wink
                        THAT.
                        I would call them - COUNTRIES OF OLIGARCHY KLEPTOCRACY. bully
                        And what did the Constitution of the USSR say about the RIGHTS of this very People? About the appointment of the Soviet State itself?
                        The fact that the main and main task of the Soviet State is "Maximum satisfaction of all the needs of Soviet citizens."
                        And try to say that this rule, these obligations, were not fulfilled. angry yes They were carried out - the State mainly did just that ... but the officials and party bosses ... lacked "attention and care" ... they lacked courage - like in the decaying West.
                        Quote from: Tech_Orchestra
                        everything was chosen by a party cabal.

                        And answer my question - THEN Soviet citizens were especially worried about this? Was it part of their life needs? It was enough that they trusted their power ... that's what let them down. When power was reborn.
                        And universal suffrage on a competitive basis was spelled out in the Stalinist Constitution as an inalienable right of Soviet citizens. But the Soviet citizens were never allowed to exercise this right in practice.
                        Who didn't give?
                        Trotskyists. smile
                        With Khrushchev at the head. yes
                        And instead of the first free elections, the Soviet people received ... rampant Trotskyist repressions (which Khrushchev later rebaptized as "Stalinist") in 1937 - 1938. As a result of which, in 1938, my great-uncle, the commander of the Chapaev division, also died. And his own grandfather at that time was engaged in logging in the exile settlement.
                        Democracy is the worst form of state and social organization. And proof of this is the loss of the People of Russia during the period of this disaster, which significantly exceeded the losses of the USSR in WWII.
                      51. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 08: 49
                        +2
                        Only those who have the results of the 1996 elections under their noses were not rewritten from Zyuganov to Yeltsin, whose elections are not organized by the "magician" Churov with his 146%, and who do not take place in the format of multi-day "electronic voting" can blame the USSR for the lack of democracy. , where the desired result can be simply programmed.
                      52. Essex62
                        Essex62 18 September 2022 09: 59
                        +2
                        Everything is just like a hum. That top of the CPSU that really was communists died of old age, they were replaced by degenerates who were not committed to the ideas of equality and anti-bourgeoisism. They did not live in a vacuum, propaganda had an even greater effect on them, they had access.
                        And ordinary communists really could not influence the decisions and actions of the party nomenklatura. Locally, yes, on a large scale, really, no matter how. And the opportunists thinned out the party, never the communists. Such are the same today in Uncle Zyu's "k" PRF.
                        And the people, what is the people? Where they turned there and swam. The consumer is the same everywhere.
                        By the way, such a process, a departure from the principles of socialism-communism in all countries, formally with the Marxist ideology, has occurred. There is no socialism in Vietnam and China, although the "communists" are in power. A person is not yet ready to defeat his selfish, essence of an individualist. Instinct prevails over consciousness.
                      53. newtc7
                        newtc7 20 September 2022 13: 36
                        -2
                        Collectivism is most developed in ants. They are so strong. BUT people are not ants, and thank God.
                        People are individual, so criminals, revolutionaries, rebels, arrogant and unprincipled is not a problem, as noted above, but a great blessing.
                        In general, the communist desire to make an obedient herd out of everyone is no different from modern American liberal imperialists who are doing the same thing only from the other side. This destroys the very idea of ​​a person, his very essence - where he himself is responsible for his choice to be evil or good, good or bad, arrogant or modest. Your vile communism took away from men the right to be men, and from women the right to be women. Western liberals are doing the same thing now.
                        Communism - FU, liberalism - FU, totalitarianism - FU, Nazism is also fu.
                        Let people live as they want and forget about happiness for everyone. God did not arrange this world this way, someone must suffer and be unhappy and rock life with suicide and kill, and so on. Such are the conditions of this world.
                      54. Essex62
                        Essex62 20 September 2022 21: 18
                        -2
                        Live as they want. I don’t give a damn about the heads, me, me, but the rest don’t give a damn. No, mister individualist-egoist, it won’t work that way.
                        People are not ants, but the Russian World has been built on the community, since the time the community was realized as Russian.
                      55. newtc7
                        newtc7 21 September 2022 02: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Live as they want. I don’t give a damn about the heads, me, me, but the rest don’t give a damn. No, mister individualist-egoist, it won’t work that way.
                        People are not ants, but the Russian World has been built on the community, since the time the community was realized as Russian.


                        You are confusing warm with soft. Individualism and collectivism is not about egoism and altruism is generally from a different spectrum. An individualist can bring good to others, and at the same time a collectivist can be a complete egoist.
                        And totalitarianism of any kind deprives a person of his right to choose what he should be.
                        It's bad that there are still people who believe that any totalitarian government/theory/sect/religion can lead to something good. There is not a single example in history, always in the end only pain and suffering.
                        Well, for you it's a question, for me it's not. And thank God that we have the opportunity to have these different opinions today, because under the commies you would be unambiguously right and I would be considered an idiot.
                        Any society is built on a community, it’s like even the words have the same root)))
                        Do you really think that people, if they are not introduced into an artificial framework, can only do this, as you wrote, “me and me and I don’t give a damn about the rest”?
                        It's not that obvious. Some yes, and some no. But when they are deprived of a choice, even as if in a good direction, the pendulum always swings back with a triple force.
                      56. Essex62
                        Essex62 21 September 2022 11: 50
                        -1
                        Don't care about your pendulum. You live like everyone else, but no - to the very hat.
                    2. alexey sidykin
                      alexey sidykin 17 September 2022 19: 03
                      -1
                      Quote: Essex62
                      Around the field, one continuous rapeseed.

                      Well, don’t tell me ... for example, we sow a lot of wheat, and this year we even planted flax ... I’m not even talking about sunflowers. So do not talk about one rapeseed. All the same, the authorities control this process without allowing large distortions.
                      1. karabas86
                        karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 27
                        0
                        Well, refute the Rosstat data on the production of wheat of 1 and 2 classes.
                      2. Essex62
                        Essex62 18 September 2022 10: 11
                        +1
                        We grow high-grade wheat, mainly where there are conditions. In the total volume of grain - a drop in the ocean. Technology adapted, chemistry. The bun, now, is not wheat. Well, sunflower and flax, yes there is. But rapeseed prevails. Fairy tales about reaching the forefront in terms of grain will remain fairy tales of the Kremlin. They win in a lot of places, in words.
                    3. newtc7
                      newtc7 17 September 2022 23: 16
                      -3
                      Yes, communism is not viable from the start, enough about that.
                      There is no communism in China, there is Chinese authoritarian capitalism with one party.
                      1. Boris Sergeev
                        Boris Sergeev 18 September 2022 06: 17
                        -2
                        It is capitalism that is not viable if, since 1968, the Rockefeller Trilateral Commission has raised the issue of reducing the world's population. Fake? However, it is being implemented as the "Dulles plan".
                      2. Stas157
                        Stas157 18 September 2022 12: 36
                        0
                        Quote from: newtc7
                        Yes communism is inherently unsustainable enough about that already.

                        The USSR proved the opposite with its entire existence.

                        In addition to turning into a superpower from a backward agrarian country with an illiterate peasant population, the USSR also won the Second World War. The only one who was able to break Hitler's back and defeat the invincible Kwantung army in two weeks.
                      3. newtc7
                        newtc7 18 September 2022 13: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: Stas157
                        Quote from: newtc7
                        Yes communism is inherently unsustainable enough about that already.

                        The USSR proved the opposite with its entire existence.

                        In addition to turning into a superpower from a backward agrarian country with an illiterate peasant population, the USSR also won the Second World War. The only one who was able to break Hitler's back and defeat the invincible Kwantung army in two weeks.


                        Has turned. But in old leaps and when people were imbued with this idea, he completely disappeared.
                        Because in the absence of competition and the strict need to live according to some moral standards invented by the communists, people lose their motivation to live.
                        Capitalism in this sense - it is wild, but it is natural - when the strong becomes stronger due to their qualities, and the weak dies and vegetates.
                        Disgusting and gross? Yes. But this is closer to the natural state of affairs
                      4. Essex62
                        Essex62 19 September 2022 07: 50
                        -1
                        This state of affairs is not acceptable, a person is not a wolf or a scorpion. Do you think it's time to kill your own parents and eat your own children? This is practiced in nature. And, by the way, in a bourgeois society, too, there is morality and restrictions. And competition, in the Union, was more than enough. Only the principle was not welcomed - step on the head of your neighbor and run further, sticking your elbows into those running nearby. Collectivism did not allow the impudent and unscrupulous to live according to the laws of the jungle.
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                2. gsev
                  gsev 17 September 2022 13: 25
                  +9
                  Quote: Stas157
                  All these breakthroughs, both in the USSR then and in China now, were carried out by the communists - ideological people for whom nothing is impossible.

                  The successes of the PRC became possible when they began to quickly remove from command posts unnecessary transmission links that could not cope with the position from engineer to manager. And moreover, they began to do this without regard to the personal devotion of the dismissed from work. In Russia, by 1985 there was a negative screening of leaders. To gain power, it was not the ability to manage production that became important, but the ability to seize production.
                3. Tech_Orchestra
                  Tech_Orchestra 17 September 2022 14: 42
                  -1
                  And this breakthrough was called Deng Xiaoping. Who did not care about the communist nonsense about opposing the plan and the market, he simply began to build the economy without paying attention to anything.
                4. your1970
                  your1970 17 September 2022 14: 48
                  +4
                  Quote: Stas157
                  But what is typical. All these breakthroughs, both in the USSR then and in China now, were carried out by the communists - ideological people for whom nothing is impossible.

                  belay belay belay
                  Then in the USSR, communists + American technologies and specialists for Soviet gold
                  Now in China, the cheapest labor force in the world (at that time) + American technology and specialists.

                  Here's a thing....
                  And no ideological people - without technology and specialists, nowhere - and alas, now we have them NO.....
                  1. Stas157
                    Stas157 18 September 2022 12: 41
                    -5
                    Quote: your1970
                    Now in China the cheapest labor force in the world (at that time)+ American technology and specialists

                    Well, our labor force has long been cheaper than Chinese ... where is your result?
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 18 September 2022 19: 19
                      +6
                      Quote: Stas157
                      Just capitalism is not viable,

                      You know a lot of people who want to work for a bowl of rice a day - like in China in the late 1980s ???
                      Zhirinovsky said that in the early 1990s he was in China with a delegation. He had a Chinese bill torn - a small one at face value and exchange rate. He tore it up and threw it into the trash, and then accidentally saw that one of the representatives of the Chinese side lagged behind the group, took it out of the trash and put it in my wallet.
                      Later, he specifically clarified - he was told that this was a bill of about 1/3 of the salary of local workers.
                      Competent, disciplined CCP workers, ready to work for a penny because of wild competition - the dream of any capitalist.
                      This is how China got to where it is today...
                      And we have advertisements for the Star with a salary of up to 130 for a worker repairman of the 000th category
                      https://bolshoi-kamen.jobfilter.ru/vacancy/85678230

                      Or
                      Slinger Watch with accommodation
                      121 000 ₽
                      WE NEED A SLINGER TO WORK ON A CRASH METHOD AT THE URAL AUTOMOBILE PLANT, MIASS

                      It means that:
                      1) the labor force is not cheap, that is, the West will not come to China
                      2) there is no competition - another 50-100 million workers do not breathe in the back of the head

                      therefore China's opportunities for a breakthrough - we do not have and will not dream. We ran into a wall... 20 years ago, our farmers gave harvesters 30 tons of grain for harvesting and back off. God bless...
                      In five years, I think farmers will fight with axes for a person WISHING work in the field. There are none, alas, for any salary soon ...
                      1. Dali
                        Dali 21 September 2022 20: 31
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        And we have advertisements for the Star with a salary of up to 130 for a worker repairman of the 000th category
                        https://bolshoi-kamen.jobfilter.ru/vacancy/85678230

                        Then how much do engineers get? 200000r - is it so? belay
                        Although, when you click on the "go to original" button, it says: 404 Not Found - and you understand what's wrong ...
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 21 September 2022 21: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Dali
                        Quote: your1970
                        And we have advertisements for the Star with a salary of up to 130 for a worker repairman of the 000th category
                        https://bolshoi-kamen.jobfilter.ru/vacancy/85678230

                        Then how much do engineers get? 200000r - is it so? belay
                        Although, when you click on the "go to original" button, it says: 404 Not Found - and you understand what's wrong ...

                        What are you accusing me of now? The fact that the vacancy has closed? This is not for me - for the Star ....
                        Quote: Dali
                        It looks like we live in different Russias, where such salaries ...

                        Yes, there are plenty of places where people earn money. All you need is desire and qualifications. For example, I can’t see such salaries because of my age and lack of qualifications.
                        Tribes in St. Petersburg earn one 70, the other 75 and think that this is a little ...
                        That is why we will not have China
                      3. Dali
                        Dali 21 September 2022 20: 32
                        0
                        It looks like we live in different Russias, where such salaries ...
                5. Boycott
                  Boycott 17 September 2022 16: 25
                  +14
                  All these breakthroughs, both in the USSR then and in China now, were carried out by the communists
                  about China is a delusion. The industrial revolution in China was made by Western corporations, having almost completely withdrawn production from Europe and the USA. Well, Russia should rely only on itself, and it actually can do everything. Ideology is needed only correct, without it in any way.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 17 September 2022 19: 52
                    +2
                    Quote: BoyCat
                    Ideology is needed only correct, without it in any way.

                    So it is LEGAL and banned.
                    1. Boycott
                      Boycott 17 September 2022 20: 18
                      +4
                      And that's exactly what I'm writing about. There must be something that unites a multinational, multireligious country.
                      1. Alf
                        Alf 17 September 2022 20: 22
                        0
                        Quote: BoyCat
                        And that's exactly what I'm writing about. There must be something that unites a multinational, multireligious country.

                        And there can be nothing of the kind. With THIS power. What can she offer? The ideology of social equality? But in fact there is an ideology and it is being intensively implanted. And it is called-Bablo above all and Man is a wolf to man. Social Darwinism, however.
                6. The comment was deleted.
                7. Kovalenko_Ilya
                  Kovalenko_Ilya 18 September 2022 07: 00
                  +3
                  Salaries in China are not higher than Russian ones. This is a general delusion of narrow-minded people who do not see beyond their cowards. And they are Chinese for sure. And socks too. Do you know why? Just because in China there is still very cheap manual labor and there is a lot of it. Lots of.
                  1. Essex62
                    Essex62 18 September 2022 10: 20
                    +2
                    You are right, Ilya hi
                    Live sweetly, at the expense of buy and sell, in a feudal-capitalist state and nod at the "developing" China, which could be simpler. We also have a specific bourgeoisie - usurers and dealers created in other countries.
                    And in fact, in China, almost slave labor. Only party nomenklatura - overseers, managers and bourgeois live well there. Everything is like ours, only their one and a half lard and the West brought their production to their territory.
                8. Serg65
                  Serg65 19 September 2022 08: 08
                  -1
                  Quote: Stas157
                  And now, thanks to the breakthrough, China has become a new superpower and salaries there have long been higher than Russian ones.

                  No need to pass off your lies as the truth, China has become a superpower solely thanks to the Americans!
                  Quote: Stas157
                  The rate of growth of the gross product in the USSR has not yet been beaten by anyone in the world.

                  Maybe, but now I don’t go to Moscow for sausage and I don’t stand in line in the morning for white bread ... recourse
              2. Frank Muller
                Frank Muller 17 September 2022 20: 09
                +2
                And who will develop these technologies? Talented specialists who left for the cordon, who were forced to realize their talent there because of the actual defeat of the domestic military-industrial complex by the Yeltsin junta? And I'm not sure that those who are now in Russia are not looking over the hill, where they can be offered immeasurably better conditions for creativity and personal well-being. What remains is patriotism, which for the ruling oligarchs is just a means to rally the Russian naivety in their own selfish interests.
              3. sgrabik
                sgrabik 17 September 2022 20: 43
                +1
                Don’t make ridiculous nonsense, we have everything, we don’t have the most important thing - political will and a clear consistent program for the rearmament of our army, we need to give a kick to the “effective” managers who have settled in the military-industrial complex in senior positions and put competent techies in their place - engineers, designers, technologists, etc. if we measure the rearmament of our army solely in terms of profitability or non-profitability, then this is an initially failed undertaking, will the necessary conclusions not be drawn in the Ministry of Defense even after the end of the SVO ???
              4. AIR
                AIR 17 September 2022 23: 22
                0
                We need not just technologies, we need a different socio-economic system that contributes to the emergence of such technologies ... With these hucksters, nothing will work out ..
              5. zenion
                zenion 18 September 2022 00: 24
                0
                Hog. Stalin said - everything is decided by the cadres. There were factories, there were personnel. And now only pipes abroad. The money is also there, the money did not reach Russia. It is surprising that a pipe was not stretched from there to Russia in order to pump money to Russia, machine tools to Russia. Everything is made for everything from Russia. A country of slaves and slave owners.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 19 September 2022 07: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: zenion
                  The money is also there, the money did not reach Russia.
                  Yes?
                  So I remind you that in previous years the budget of the Russian Federation was collected by 60 (with a penny)% from the funds received from the Federal Customs Service. And mainly from export duties on hydrocarbons ...
                  And the Federal Tax Service gave an average of about 18 ....
                  So the army and "bureaucrats", as well as doctors, teachers and others - were kept just for money - from a pipe ....
              6. ramzay21
                ramzay21 18 September 2022 09: 10
                +6
                but now it is physically impossible to make such a breakthrough, this requires completely different technologies.

                Where the country's leadership sends money, then it develops. Stalin sent money to industrialization, education and defense, so the country received advanced industries, a literate population and an advanced army.
                Now the money goes to the Olympics, Championships, parades, city days and other entertainment, and all projects are done only in the interests of embezzlers.
                With more than $100 billion spent on the Olympics and the World Cup, Industrialization could be carried out, with the money spent on the day of the city in Moscow, it would be possible to buy a plant for the production of quadrocopters and cover all the needs of our army, with the money spent on the naval parade, you can it would be to produce normal first-aid kits for our entire army. And so on
              7. Vikxnumx
                Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 14: 49
                -1
                but now it is physically impossible to make such a breakthrough, this requires completely different technologies.

                You need to steal less!
                And do not translate with an increase, but plant! And not "for turma", but for KOL!
                1. your1970
                  your1970 19 September 2022 07: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: VIK1711
                  but now it is physically impossible to make such a breakthrough, this requires completely different technologies.

                  You need to steal less!
                  And do not translate with an increase, but plant! And not "for turma", but for KOL!

                  Well, let's put them on a stake and? Will technology fall from the sky right away?
                  Stalin I bought factories - now no one will sell us factories. They don’t have the Great Depression ....

                  I got tired of the naive kindergarten belief in the omnipotence of "cola / brilliant green". It does not always work, alas, not always ...
                  1. Vikxnumx
                    Vikxnumx 19 September 2022 10: 14
                    0
                    Well, let's put them on a stake and? Will technology fall from the sky right away?
                    Stalin BOUGHT factories - now no one will sell us factories. They don’t have a Great Depression ....

                    What have you been up to for the last couple of decades?
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 19 September 2022 10: 24
                      -1
                      Quote: VIK1711
                      Well, let's put them on a stake and? Will technology fall from the sky right away?
                      Stalin BOUGHT factories - now no one will sell us factories. They don’t have a Great Depression ....

                      What have you been up to for the last couple of decades?

                      And was there a Great Depression ??? missed her God missed ...
                      The last large factories with relatively fresh technologies - AvtoVAZ. Sold in the wake of the coming oil crisis - there was such a bug in Europe, not VD of course, but it’s also trash ..
                      After that, the factories did not sell us, neither the USSR nor the Russian Federation ..
                      And to buy a plant without those who want to sell it is nonsense, isn't it ??
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 19 September 2022 11: 12
                    +1
                    Quote: your1970
                    I got tired of the naive kindergarten belief in the omnipotence of "cola / brilliant green". It does not always work, alas, not always ...

                    It's just that everyone has already forgotten about the attempt to buy an Opel - and how it all ended. smile
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 19 September 2022 11: 31
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Quote: your1970
                      I got tired of the naive kindergarten belief in the omnipotence of "cola / brilliant green". It does not always work, alas, not always ...

                      It's just that everyone has already forgotten about the attempt to buy an Opel - and how it all ended. smile

                      By the way, yes - and the money was not sickly, and the factory was so-so, not very profitable.
                      But it turned out better
                      "I'll poke my eye out - so that my mother-in-law's son-in-law is crooked !!" (c) folk
                      1. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 19 September 2022 12: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: your1970
                        By the way, yes - and the money was not sickly, and the factory was so-so, not very profitable.
                        But it turned out better
                        "I'll poke my eye out - so that my mother-in-law's son-in-law is crooked !!" (c) folk

                        You can also remember how the Chinese wanted to buy port facilities abroad, and they were told that their money was not democratic enough for this - and the deal was blocked.
            2. chetvertak
              chetvertak 17 September 2022 12: 01
              +4
              But because there are no 70-80%, but at most 15-20% .70-80% is only in air defense. We have 1200 tanks suitable for the current war in Ukraine, and the rest - 7500 or more mothballed. It is quite possible that for 5 years the Ministry of Defense and GDP gave us mothballed 70-80%, as if they were modernized. For the defense of the country, a tank, infantry fighting vehicles, Krasnopoli, coalitions, etc., it’s expensive and you can’t put much in your pocket. Therefore, for the Ministry of Defense and for GDP, a contractor will be 20-30 times cheaper than a tank in his .. I found an article where it says that we produce 6-8 MiG-34 fighters a year. 6 pcs, At such a rate of GDP modernization, we don’t get anything at all except defeat. This is the "optimization" of our entire country AP GDP
              1. nils
                nils 17 September 2022 12: 31
                +19
                Quote from: hetvertak
                At such a pace of modernization, nothing shines for us at all except defeat. This is the "optimization" of our entire country AP GDP

                - I don’t understand ... Why, under Stalin, the rocket scientist Korolev, and not a journalist, a graduate of the University of Marxism-Leninism, a philosopher, was engaged in rockets? And, say, the talented physicist Kurchatov was in charge of the atomic project, and not the upstart Kinder Surprise? And for some reason, the minister of defense was a professional military man, and not a civil engineer, a holder of the highest award of the Order of Malta (awarded together with Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Berezovsky).
                - This is apparently a tyrant so swagger over the country.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 17 September 2022 16: 51
                  -8
                  Quote: nils
                  This is apparently a tyrant so swagger over the country.

                  Quote: nils
                  for some reason, the minister of defense was a professional military man, and not a civil engineer,

                  belay request what
                  PROFESSIONAL military - under Stalin - for six months retreated to Moscow.
                  It's a sin to think so, but maybe it would be better then the people's commissar - was there a builder?
                  1. chetvertak
                    chetvertak 17 September 2022 18: 10
                    -5
                    Timoshenko had a 100% defeat without a single victory! The same Shaposhnikov is to blame for many things. And Stalin is also guilty of boilers
                  2. Romario_Argo
                    Romario_Argo 19 September 2022 11: 29
                    0
                    retreated to Moscow because the Ukrainians did not have time to complete the Stalin line in a month - the Molotov line on the new border ate everything
                    + there was a lack of anti-tank guns
                    + projects of armored personnel carriers were not implemented
                2. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 19 September 2022 11: 19
                  0
                  Quote: nils
                  Why, under Stalin, was the rocket scientist Korolev, and not a journalist, a graduate of the University of Marxism-Leninism, a philosopher, engaged in rockets? And, say, the talented physicist Kurchatov was in charge of the atomic project, and not the upstart Kinder Surprise?

                  Mwa-ha-ha ... under Stalin, the builder-architect was, in fact, engaged in the rocket and nuclear project. laughing And the individuals you mentioned were technical specialists he is under his control.
                  Quote: nils
                  And for some reason, the minister of defense was a professional military man, and not a civil engineer, a holder of the highest award of the Order of Malta (awarded together with Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Berezovsky).

                  And you read - what the Stalin Marshal brought the pre-war Red Army to. "Act on the admission of the People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR" can be safely put as an indictment in the case of the Trotskyist conspiracy of the top of the Red Army.
                  The next people's commissar in 1942 was removed from command of the front for unjustified losses.
                  1. Romario_Argo
                    Romario_Argo 19 September 2022 11: 39
                    0
                    symbiosis: KV-1 tanks, light BT-7
                    all that is not a big improvisation with the permission of Stalin would allow to tie down German blows
                    namely,
                    creation of a motorized rifle company:
                    8 BT-7/-5/-2 tanks converted into armored personnel carriers with a 23-mm ShVAK cannon for 8 soldiers
                    + double-sided steel bibs according to the type of Leningrad MPZ-ZIF-22
                    reinforcement of 6 KV-1 or T-34 tanks
                    100 such units: 800 BT-7/BT-5/BT-2, 600 KV-1 or T-34
                    could hold a front with a length of at least 120 km out of 1200 km
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 19 September 2022 12: 46
                      +1
                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      8 tanks BT-7 / -5 / -2 converted to armored personnel carriers

                      Where will we land the landing? Between candles?
                      And who will redo it? KhPZ is not up to it - he drives the T-34.
                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      with gun ShVAK 23 mm

                      What is this mutant? ShVAK-20 in the ground version (TNSh) turned out to be so capricious that in the summer of 1942 a wave of reports of failures went from the units. I'm not saying that back in 1936, the ShVAK-20 was declared unsuitable for use in ground units due to disgusting ballistics and a small effective firing range.
                      Taubin's gun? Until it is remade under a new cartridge, it will not take off.
                      VYa-23? The same problems on earth as ShVAK. VYa-23 had almost a dozen different delays even in the air.
                      Quote: Romario_Argo
                      100 such units: 800 BT-7/BT-5/BT-2, 600 KV-1 or T-34
                      could hold a front with a length of at least 120 km out of 1200 km

                      Uh-huh ... Without artillery and logistics. And with the commanders arr. 41, especially in the infantry - who consider it possible to command everything they see, absolutely not understanding this and not even reading the charters.
                  2. your1970
                    your1970 19 September 2022 11: 43
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    And you read - what the Stalin Marshal brought the pre-war Red Army to. "Act on the admission of the People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR" can be safely put as an indictment in the case of the Trotskyist conspiracy of the top of the Red Army.
                    - there, yeah...
                    I am strongly pinned by the acts of inspections of spacecraft of those times ...
                    Amazing reading...

                    702 self-propelled gunners in the division per day, rifles not cleaned during the year DOCUMENTS(!!!) - up to the impossibility of sending a cartridge into the chamber, drunkenness of command personnel, 2-3 planes broken daily, 32 belay belay belay tanks not found in the area - I just can’t imagine where they could drink them then, to whom ....

                    I recommend to everyone "Conference of the People's Commissariat of Communications and the Prosecutor's Office 1934", 1935. The current corrupt officials against the background of those of that time are a kindergarten in the sandbox. I highly recommend ...
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 19 September 2022 12: 32
                      +1
                      Quote: your1970
                      rifles not cleaned during the year ACCORDING TO DOCUMENTS

                      Moreover, the Red Army soldiers brought personal weapons to an unusable state at an accelerated pace. In the best division of the Red Army in 1940, a quarter of the new rifles were brought to rust in the bore in 4 months.
                      In parts of 97 SD rifles manufactured in 1940. ,owned for no more than 4 months, up to 29% are brought to the state of traces of rust in the bore, machine guns "DP" made in 1939, up to 14% also have deterioration in the bores.
                      © The KOVO weapons verification act for the 1940th year.
                      And my favorite:
                      Unfortunately, there are still such commanders as junior lieutenant comrade N (I am releasing the surname available in the dock) (791 joint ventures), who has only 6 rifles in the division, and upon inspection all the rifles turned out to be rusty, his personal one also turned out to be rusty revolver "Nagan", in the drum of which there were three spent cartridges. The revolver, according to the statement of junior lieutenant comrade N, was not cleaned after firing for 3 months.
                      © Ulanov. Extract from the "Order to the troops of the 5th army" On the results of verification of artillery and in parts of 135 sd, 36 ltbr, 330 gap argk and corps units of 27 sk
                      Quote: your1970
                      32 belay belay belay tanks not found in the area - I just can’t imagine where they could drink them then, to whom ....

                      * melancholy Just 32? According to the results of the audit of the tank fleet after the arrival of Tymoshenko, it turned out that 279 light tanks, 404 amphibious tanks, 780 (yes, seven hundred and eighty!) tankettes and 382 armored vehicles mysteriously evaporated into the armored vehicles.
                      The industry released them, the army did not write them off - and the commissions did not find them in the units.
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 19 September 2022 13: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        . In the best division of the Red Army in 1940, a quarter of the new rifles were brought to rust in 4 months
                        I don’t remember behind the prescription - who and where - but the trick
                        Quote: your1970
                        rifles not cleaned for a year ACCORDING TO DOCUMENTS (!!!) - up to the impossibility of sending a cartridge into the chamber
                        was that they were received, put in a gunsmith and a year NOT ISSUED in general, from the gunsmith, according to the magazine ....
                        And yes, in order not to send a cartridge into the chamber, there should be rust there ...

                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Only 32?
                        it's some kind ONE from the districts.

                        The joke is that you can’t adapt armored cars even as a tractor anywhere. However, wedges too - low speeds will lead to rapid overheating when plowing ....
                        And more here - for the life of me - I don’t know. Unless they “broke = abandoned” ...
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. The comment was deleted.
            5. arhPavel
              arhPavel 18 September 2022 22: 54
              +2
              Maybe because any technique you need to be able to use. And just to release a tank or plane is only a third.
              Release, learn how to use, and most importantly, plan and manage the battle, taking into account new opportunities.
              Let the same Armata into battle without a combat control system introduced into the troops, without saturating this system with information collection sensors, ground and air drones. It's useless, for this there is T72 / 80

              Now operational communication decides. The Americans tested their satellite Wi-Fi. We don't have an analogue yet. Communication is required to use all new weapons.
            6. Serg65
              Serg65 19 September 2022 08: 04
              +1
              Quote: Stas157
              New items were produced not only for exhibitions and reports!

              what And how did these innovations prove themselves in Afghanistan?
            7. Kaufman
              Kaufman 19 September 2022 12: 16
              -2
              Horse racing was demonstrated in the Bekaa Valley. They showed the complete failure of our air defense system. Who would not say anything, the defeat was fierce. The Union still had a few years to take action. But they didn't have time.
          2. Frost
            Frost 17 September 2022 07: 25
            +4
            Quote: Snail N9
            the most 75% of the latest technology, modern designs, which were recently announced?


          3. SKVichyakow
            SKVichyakow 17 September 2022 11: 08
            +19
            Quote: Snail N9
            Where is this very, equipped with the latest word "second army of the world"?

            And the villas of the powers that be, isn't it an achievement? Sometimes it seems to me that there is a conscious work, in the style of Chubais, to slow down development. In words, everything, in fact, ZERO.
            1. newtc7
              newtc7 17 September 2022 23: 23
              +4
              Yes, it is: the right words and a little appearance so that the people do not rebel and believe in the authorities. But in fact - just ZERO. For them, perhaps the option of dividing Russia into principalities is a completely acceptable thing.
              1. Repellent
                Repellent 17 September 2022 23: 34
                -12
                Quote from: newtc7
                For them, the option of dividing Russia into principalities is probably a completely acceptable thing

                Thick, small, very thick. Burning, however request laughing
            2. Vikxnumx
              Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 14: 51
              0
              And the villas of the powers that be, isn't it an achievement?

              That's where all the new technology is! Both in the kitchen and...
      2. Sergey Drozdov
        Sergey Drozdov 17 September 2022 07: 56
        +2
        The United States did not help, capitalism never helps, the United States competently used it for its own purposes - the purposes of the entire Soviet people, comrade Stalin.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 17 September 2022 08: 35
          +4
          Quote: Sergey Drozdov
          USA did not help

          The citizen does not see much difference between helping and selling.
        2. Essex62
          Essex62 17 September 2022 13: 31
          0
          Sergey, but the bourgeois liberda does not agree. They believe that socialism has built a shackled pin for us to the camp. Look at the minuses.
      3. karabas86
        karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 22
        +1
        Helped, how is it? Free? Or for real money? then it won't help.
      4. AAK
        AAK 18 September 2022 00: 50
        -1
        Well, who is stopping our "successful managers" in the government and not only finding a new assistant for "Putin's industrialization", there are probably those who are now in crisis and can share technologies and construction of factories, or are we the only ones in crisis?
        1. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 14: 53
          0
          Well, who is stopping our "successful managers" in the government and not only finding a new assistant for "Putin's industrialization", there are probably those who are now in crisis and can share technologies and construction of factories, or are we the only ones in crisis?

          Own pockets!
      5. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 20 September 2022 16: 41
        0
        China does not prohibit anything to anyone .... They have export support. Almost all taxes (export) are removed from the product and it competes with ours (If it is made with state loans) it will pay all taxes and its suppliers will pay all taxes and people will work there in white ..... and then they will converge in the tender .
    2. Adequate
      Adequate 17 September 2022 06: 28
      +5
      Where is the money? $65 billion a year is allocated for the Russian army
      1. chetvertak
        chetvertak 17 September 2022 12: 39
        +4
        65 billion -4,5 trillion rubles - 4,5% of GDP. This is the same as spending the UK, France, Germany, but from the territory 30 times smaller than the Russian Federation. Our defense industry depends on the dollar exchange rate, in the EU and the USA it is almost impossible depends, except for oil and gas. Therefore, they can print as much as they want for the defense industry. And our GDP kept talking about a surplus! And where did our issue go? Probably for government bonds or commercial banks
      2. karabas86
        karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 32
        -1
        Speaking indecently counting other people's money
    3. Silver99
      Silver99 17 September 2022 07: 49
      +23
      I agree an excellent article, not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. Reveals the vices hidden behind the facade of parades and biathlons. It turns out that the most effective MO was Serdyukov, it was he who carried out the reform and began to introduce modern developments into the army, and the current leadership only puffs out its cheeks, from here on the front BMP 1960 and mortars 1940 from storage depots (((What "armata" can you imagine if he fell into the hands of adversaries after the "regrouping" near Kharkov or Balakliya? The current MO is essentially a purely civilian person and there is nothing for him to flaunt in stripes with a full chest of orders, the suit must be civilian, on the lapel there is only one badge with the flag of Russia. Less ostentatious arrogance, more affairs.
      1. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 17 September 2022 11: 38
        +7
        Quote from Silver99
        I agree an excellent article, not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. Reveals the vices hidden behind the facade of parades and biathlons. It turns out that the most effective MO was Serdyukov, it was he who carried out the reform and began to introduce modern developments into the army, and the current leadership only puffs out its cheeks, from here on the front BMP 1960 and mortars 1940 from storage depots (((What "armata" can you imagine if he fell into the hands of adversaries after the "regrouping" near Kharkov or Balakliya? The current MO is essentially a purely civilian person and there is nothing for him to flaunt in stripes with a full chest of orders, the suit must be civilian, on the lapel there is only one badge with the flag of Russia. Less ostentatious arrogance, more affairs.

        Serdyukov, who by all means destroyed the mobilization potential of our army, actively sent military equipment for disposal and so on? Yes it helped a lot... am
        1. UAZ 452
          UAZ 452 17 September 2022 13: 20
          +18
          Under Serdyukov, the question was raised that most of the size of our army is a fiction, since the personnel are basically "smeared" in a thin layer over cropped units that are basically impossible to mobilize and actually send to fight, that it makes no sense to have a bunch of military universities that graduate 40 annually thousand lieutenants for less than a million army, of which less than 15 thousand remain in the army in a year, it is better to train the same 15 thousand, and use the money saved after the reduction of universities to increase the salaries of the military so that they do not quit in droves. For recycling, equipment was sent that had not been suitable for use in modern warfare for a long time, in order to at least not spend money on its protection and maintenance. It was proposed to radically reduce the number of military research institutes, refusing to finance them "on the fact of availability", paying for specific developments based on their results, including private companies (as all over the world). Yes, Serdyukov was very keen on the idea of ​​​​purchasing military equipment abroad, but then there was a completely different political situation, and such an opportunity had a sobering effect on our military-industrial complex, forcing them to abandon their favorite thesis "take what they give, there will be no other anyway." By the way, a considerable proportion of the same thermal imagers on our tanks (where they are), as far as I know, are from those pre-sanction purchases.
          Serdyukov was a thorn in the eye of our generals and, moreover, of the "generals" from the military-industrial complex. They ate him, instead of a "jacket" they put the brave General Shoigu, who has orders all over his chest.
          And 10 years later, SWO happened, and what do we see? Of the million-strong army of Russia, it turned out to be possible to send 100-odd thousand people to the war, the rest, as it were, military men, but, as it were, not particularly suitable for war. Mobilization depots of equipment and weapons, containing, on paper, thousands and thousands of tanks, after a few months even without a war, only T-62 and BMP-1 can be issued to the active army. Officers - graduates of the military universities "saved" from the Serdyukov defeat, show a level of professionalism, tactical and operational skills ... however, we will not go into depth. Developments saved from the same defeat and reduction of military research institutes, design bureaus and other "boxes" ... but where are they?
          Well, what are your complaints about Serdyukov, who, by the way, occupied the chair of the Moscow Region for only 4 years, and for 10 years in this chair a completely different person? If there was a desire, any mistakes of the "furniture maker" (if any) could be corrected several times over these 10 years.
          1. Disant
            Disant 17 September 2022 22: 26
            -2
            UAZ 452 (UAZ 452),
            Do you have a split personality?
            you write
            Under Serdyukov, the question was raised that most of the size of our army is a fiction, since the personnel are basically "smeared" in a thin layer over cropped units that are basically impossible to mobilize and actually send to fight, that it makes no sense to have a bunch of military universities that graduate 40 annually thousand lieutenants for less than a million army, of which less than 15 thousand remain in the army in a year, it is better to train the same 15 thousand, and use the money saved after the reduction of universities to increase the salaries of the military so that they do not quit in droves. For disposal, equipment was sent that had not been suitable for use in modern warfare for a long time, in order to at least not spend money on its protection, maintenance

            and right there
            And 10 years later, SWO happened, and what do we see? Of the million-strong army of Russia, it turned out to be possible to send 100-odd thousand people to the war, the rest, as it were, military men, but, as it were, not particularly suitable for war. Mobilization depots of equipment and weapons, containing, on paper, thousands and thousands of tanks, after a few months even without a war, only T-62 and BMP-1 can be issued to the active army.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 19 September 2022 11: 25
              +2
              So the Serdyukov reform (more precisely, the reform of Makarov) was never carried out. Instead of 90% full combat readiness brigades with contract soldiers, they first received semi-framed brigades with conscripts, and then again returned to the situation of 2008, when on paper we have a division, but in fact - BTG with a rickety rear and no motorized riflemen.
              And yes, before the Serdyukov reform, a one and a half million army arr. In 1999, she was barely able to gather 50 from all districts in combat units for the Second Chechen.
              1. Disant
                Disant 19 September 2022 15: 54
                0
                Instead of 90% completed brigades of full combat readiness with contract soldiers, they first received semi-framed brigades with conscripts

                no doubt, I completely agree - something I don’t observe outsourcing cooks with ladle along the trenches and dealer technicians of caponier factories - to repair equipment.
                in pursuit, they introduced a year of service instead of two and left it that way, so that future contractors would not at all professionalize in advance.
                here for the introduced hour after dinner - well done, at least some benefit from the reforms is caring for a person.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 19 September 2022 16: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: Disant
                  no doubt, I completely agree - something I don’t observe outsourcing cooks with ladle along the trenches and dealer technicians of caponier factories - to repair equipment.

                  So this was not planned. Outsourcing was supposed to work only in peacetime and at points of permanent deployment. And in the field - only full-time army structures.
                  Quote: Disant
                  in pursuit, they introduced a year of service instead of two and left it that way, so that future contractors would not at all professionalize in advance.

                  And these are the rudiments of the original reform, when active army assumed to be fully contractual. smile
              2. Disant
                Disant 19 September 2022 15: 57
                0
                And yes, before the Serdyukov reform, a one and a half million army arr. In 1999, she was barely able to gather 50 from all districts in combat units for the Second Chechen.

                you can’t compare here - you have to look at the price of a barrel of oil and the funds allocated for defense from the budget - and there is a huge difference.
                no money -) no fuel and salaries -) no combat training -) no trained personnel
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 September 2022 11: 32
            +1
            Quote: UAZ 452
            it makes no sense to have a bunch of military universities that annually graduate 40 thousand lieutenants for less than a million army, of which less than 15 thousand remain in the army a year later, it is better to train the same 15 thousand, and use the money saved after the reduction of universities to increase salaries for the military, so that they did not leave in droves

            Ha, if only they quit. I met figures that at the beginning of the Serdyukov reform there were 300 officers in the Armed Forces. At the same time, the bulk of them sat in the headquarters and high schools, and "in the field" of career officers there were 000 percent of the staff. There is nothing to say about the rank and file - on 20 platoons of 08.08.08-17 people fought.
      2. karabas86
        karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 38
        +1
        Excuse me dear, but what are you smoking? The furniture is efficient, you got paid or you are from another planet. Well, basically, you're right. Stealing 4,5 billion, what is proven and not being held accountable, is super effective. Well, to say that the stool is an independent figure is a kindergarten, a misunderstanding of how the system works. By the way, look at the speech of the GDP at the collegium of the Moscow Region, he specifically says that the furniture is nobody, they just put it in, do what he was told. Moreover, most of these reforms are canceled or backfired. And all these outsourcing, first of all, to feed their people. If you don't understand this, you are truly sorry.
        1. newtc7
          newtc7 17 September 2022 23: 29
          0
          Yes, you find someone there who took less than this amount. There are no such. What they told about it was his stocks - only because someone passed him no more. It is the same with any of our corrupt officials, the point is not that he is a thief, the point is that all thieves and only thieves handed over this particular thief for some reason of their own. Sadly it's all and a glimpse is not visible
        2. Alf
          Alf 17 September 2022 23: 59
          +8
          Quote: karabas86
          Stealing 4,5 billion, what is proven and not being held accountable, is super effective.

      3. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 14: 56
        -2
        The current MO is essentially a purely civilian person and there is nothing for him to flaunt in stripes with a full chest of orders, the suit must be civilian, on the lapel there is only one badge with the flag of Russia. Less showy arrogance, more action.

        That place is cursed! Remember, Kyiv - 1941, Kharkov - 1942 ...
    4. ALARI
      ALARI 17 September 2022 11: 45
      +15
      An article about what we are still fighting in SOVIET GALOSHES.
    5. free
      free 17 September 2022 14: 55
      +10
      No questions, the article is correct, but I didn’t have enough analytics, what does “expensive” mean, in relation to what? abrams, merkava, leopard? at the beginning of the last century, a tank was also considered expensive in relation to a cart with a machine gun
    6. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 17 September 2022 19: 33
      -5
      Quote: Proton
      The article is correct.
      First of all, it is necessary to carry out the industrialization of industry, without the rise of the real sector of the economy, we will carry socks and calculators from China.
      In the meantime, only gas stations and shopping centers are being built.

      The article is correct and there are problems, BUT ERRORS (or rather, pulling on the ears) in it to a fig and more.

      By the way, the author tactfully kept silent (and in most cases lied) about anti-tank systems, riflemen, light infantry armor, about armored personnel carriers-82 and much more.

      And for example, the same analytics for the USA:
      Abrams - a car from 80. No prospects
      BTR Stryker - licensed copy of a piranha - no prospects.
      Humvee is a car from the 80s. There are no real prospects because JATVs are purchased in small batches.
      Bradley is a car out of 80. There are no prospects.
      Does this analytics say that the US military-industrial complex can do nothing? He speaks. Realistically, this is not.

      Likewise with us. For 20 years, the VKS alone received, according to open data, almost 700 new machines. Turntables under 1000. It’s better to keep quiet about the fleet of armored vehicles - the old backlog is simply huge and it SHOULD be modernized - for this, Burlak and Proryv ROC went. And it was they who gave birth to our best at the moment of the large-scale - T-90M. Similarly, new anti-tank systems and artillery systems are being developed.
      What is really "truancy": communication (number and, accordingly, interaction), WTO (from sniper systems to UAVs). At what to say that nothing is being done - it is impossible. All these problems are solvable, but what is needed to solve them is not "effective managers", but new Stalins, Berias, Ustinovs, Zhukovs, Shaposhnikovs.

      P.S. In general, there is such a suspicion that Roman has a new literary slave, because he had not noticed such distortions of facts before.
      1. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 14: 58
        +3
        At what to say that nothing is being done - it is impossible.

        Well, the KR "Moscow" recently underwent modernization ...
        1. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 18 September 2022 18: 58
          0
          Quote: VIK1711
          Well, the KR "Moscow" recently underwent modernization ...

          Actually overhaul, not modernization.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 September 2022 11: 37
        0
        Quote: Blackgrifon
        Bradley is a car out of 80. There are no prospects.

        You forgot about the recent US Army competition to replace the M113 armored personnel carrier, which Vietnam still remembers. The British BAE won this competition by submitting unique and unparalleled innovation in the world © - BMP M2 "Bradley" without turret. laughing
        Moreover, only armored personnel carriers of the brigade level went under the replacement. And the M113 in units of higher subordination remained to serve further.
        1. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 19 September 2022 16: 02
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          You forgot about the recent US Army competition to replace the M113 armored personnel carrier, which Vietnam still remembers.

          M113 is eternal! :) And if without jokes, then, indeed, for its time it was a good car.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 September 2022 16: 39
            +2
            Quote: Blackgrifon
            M113 is eternal! :)

            Now the motorcycle league has become embarrassing.
            Well, nothing, she with a "loaf" will live to see the Imperium of Humanity. smile
            1. Blackgrifon
              Blackgrifon 20 September 2022 17: 29
              0
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Now the motorcycle league has become embarrassing.

              Motorcycle leagues are beautiful, but there are few motorcycle leagues - nevertheless, 6000 have spawned and the population is declining. Although the Adeptus Mechanicus may start riveting them on the STC :)
    7. Mikhail Drabkin
      Mikhail Drabkin 17 September 2022 20: 56
      +1
      Proton:

      ...industrialization of industry...


      —This is the term for a socialist, centralized economy. And in Russia-it is capitalist.

      —-In the West, the military-industrial complex has developed continuously for at least a century (even in Germany). And as a result, there are several competitors left in each direction of the military-industrial complex. They are fueled by the military budget, purposefully and not chaotically. Only a few new manufacturers emerge from breakthrough innovations and then integrate into existing military-industrial complex conglomerates.

      —-In Russia there was a centralization and nationalization without competition. And without the harsh, Stalinist responsibility and discipline, without red directors.

      —-This first war of capitalist Russia… this is not a quasi-colonial expeditionary war like Syria. And capitalist Russia has so far shown unpreparedness.

      --- "Cadres decide everything" - except for "Sevmash" Budnichenko, the designers of the nuclear submarines of Leningrad and intermediaries - I do not see such personnel with current traditions. Here around "Sevmash" and restore the production of engineering-intensive new equipment. They will cope, whether it is armored tank building or aviation. Because there is responsibility, experience in solving the most difficult tasks, there are traditions to WIN without explanation.

      —- It is necessary to strengthen the strong, the winners, and not support the weak - a black hole.

      —- In Russia, the military-industrial complex is now spread fingers, not a fist. And some of them for more than being “fingers sucked out of ..” are not suitable. The results of the military-industrial complex in the production of new equipment are a direct result of the irresponsibility of the Moscow Region.
    8. Romanovski
      Romanovski 18 September 2022 13: 23
      0
      It is necessary to ensure REAL competition in the military-industrial complex (and not only ...) so that weapons become better and more affordable. Stalin at one time well understood the benefits of healthy competition and at least 3 independent design bureaus and factories worked in each direction of weapons. ..
    9. Sevastiec
      Sevastiec 20 September 2022 04: 16
      0
      We must do all the good and do nothing bad.

      I’m thinking, maybe start by not writing articles and comments on social networks, but go and do it?
    10. Sevastiec
      Sevastiec 20 September 2022 11: 46
      0
      All the perverts are annoying no less than the urya-patriots, who say that everything we have is so unparalleled that we can throw all the hats into the dust with hats.
    11. AG-76
      AG-76 21 September 2022 10: 40
      0
      Industrialization is, of course, good, right. But the problem is also in personnel ... We need engineers who will develop new types of equipment, and not assemble a "product" from Chinese designers.
      We need skilled workers. But young people do not aspire to this, everyone wants to be managers and businessmen ...
      There are many problems, and even more stupid reports about "unparalleled", etc.
  2. Bronik
    Bronik 17 September 2022 04: 56
    0
    Objective article One of the few. Many are captive. Serdyukov, when he was a minister, categorically refused to buy: 1. "Armaty" - 2,5 times more expensive than Abrams, 2. "Kurgans" - 6 times more expensive than Iveco. (someone wrote to me that, on the other hand, Kurganets can swim across water barriers of 80 m). Funny. But it was removed by patriotic directors of the military-industrial complex. Who would doubt that. So or not?
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 17 September 2022 05: 10
      +19
      Yes. It's not funny, Serdyukov is the only one who tried to push through the military-industrial complex, in some places even successfully.
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 17 September 2022 06: 28
        +11
        Quote: Lex_is
        Yes. It's not funny, Serdyukov is the only one who tried to push through the military-industrial complex, in some places even successfully.

        We still remember the Mistrals ... True, on this contract someone was able to “weld” something ...
        1. Vladimir Michailovich
          Vladimir Michailovich 17 September 2022 08: 07
          +4
          Don’t drive the blizzard-Mistral, this is a big bourgeois deal between the Kremlin and the French, no one asked Serdyukov ...
          1. yuriy55
            yuriy55 17 September 2022 08: 49
            +3
            Quote: Vladimir Michailovich
            Do not drive a blizzard

            A full-time “blizzard bearer” has been appointed to drive a snowstorm in Russia. I’ll ask you to speak to me politely: on one hectare and on brotherhood - I didn’t have the honor ...
            You can just walk past. yes
            1. Vladimir Michailovich
              Vladimir Michailovich 17 September 2022 09: 59
              -4
              Only those who do not accuse others of crimes that they did not commit can speak of honor.
            2. 72jora72
              72jora72 17 September 2022 19: 56
              +2
              on one hectare and brotherhood - had no honor ...
              Don, we are also neither on a hectare nor in a trench .......
          2. Liberal
            Liberal 17 September 2022 21: 38
            +2
            Mistrals would give Russia a good technological backlog in many areas. The failure of their purchase is a big problem for the current shipbuilding industry.
        2. Lex_is
          Lex_is 17 September 2022 08: 43
          +6
          Do you remember the UAVs "Forpost", "Lynx" and much more?
          1. Vikxnumx
            Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 02
            +2
            Do you remember the UAVs "Forpost", "Lynx" and much more?

            Where are they??? In this war, we have no reconnaissance and target designation !!!
            Enemy artillery starts working in FIVE minutes after target designation !!!
            And ours ... 40-60 minutes!
            I'll drop my mats...
            1. Repellent
              Repellent 18 September 2022 15: 06
              -7
              Quote: VIK1711
              Enemy artillery starts to work in FIVE minutes after target designation

              Only the Ukrainian side can have objective data on this subject.

              Quote: VIK1711
              And ours ... 40-60 minutes

              These data are only for the Russian Federation.

              Attention, the question is: where did you get these data from, and how much can they be trusted?
            2. Lex_is
              Lex_is 18 September 2022 18: 46
              +4
              Where, where... In the same place as always.
              You are not serving ...
              But if there weren’t even Orlans now, it would obviously not be better, and no one was itching to order them
      2. chetvertak
        chetvertak 17 September 2022 12: 48
        +5
        I found an article for 2012, Colonel General Alexander Skorodumova, about reform in the army! If Officers are Cowards, Ass Licks, Opportunists ... then, the Army is END
        1. UAZ 452
          UAZ 452 17 September 2022 13: 32
          +16
          Find articles about a year ago that in Ugra local urki an entire military unit, including officers, was put on the counter and milked for years, and extrapolate to what is happening. By the way, under one of the articles on this topic, comments were opened, so many wrote that such phenomena also take place in their units and military camps. Well, if a few criminals with fittings are enough to intimidate entire military units, what can you expect from these warriors when they are threatened by an enemy armed with brass knuckles and clubs?
      3. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 17 September 2022 19: 37
        -3
        Quote: Lex_is
        Yes. It's not funny, Serdyukov is the only one who tried to push through the military-industrial complex, in some places even successfully.

        Yeah, "pushed through" :)))))) Read about his current wife if you forgot those years By the way, where did many military educational institutions go? Why did the purchases of BMP-3, BTR-90, T-90 stop?
        1. Lex_is
          Lex_is 17 September 2022 20: 54
          -1
          I remember very well, unlike you. And what money he received and how in a day for a belt because there were not enough fighters even for guards.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 September 2022 12: 09
          +1
          Quote: Blackgrifon
          Why did the purchases of BMP-3, BTR-90, T-90 stop?

          Because UVZ promptly responded to the growth of the military budget and raised the price of the T-90 by 70% in a year - up to 118 million rubles.
          Our armored vehicles carried out the Soviet legacy for 20 years - without replacement or repair. During this time, they received three hundred new tanks and three hundred modernized / overhauled. Everything. The rest of the fleet of vehicles, as it was released in the USSR, has been running since then. We even had "browless" T-62s and T-55AMs in combat units.
          There were two options. Either continue to buy 65 T-90s a year at an increasingly expensive price, or upgrade the existing one in three to four times as many. Taking into account the fact that even according to the minimum estimates, 2000 tanks of the first line should have been replaced, they chose the "tank for 52 million" - the T-72B3, which UVZ could make 200 units a year. Otherwise, with the pace of "65 new cars annually," the BTV would simply die without waiting for the materiel.
          1. Blackgrifon
            Blackgrifon 19 September 2022 16: 11
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Because UVZ promptly responded to the growth of the military budget and raised the price of the T-90 by 70% in a year - up to 118 million rubles.

            Yes. But the price could be brought down by the administrative resource + carrot in the form of a contract for overhaul and modernization. I mean, you can "play" with prices and push through.

            Quote: Alexey RA
            they chose a "tank for 52 million" - the T-72B3, which UVZ could produce 200 pieces a year.

            It is a pity that they did not immediately choose B2 or B3 UBH. Although I agree that if it were not for the mass modernization of Beshek, it would be tight.
    2. tsvetahaki
      tsvetahaki 17 September 2022 06: 23
      +18
      "Armaty" - 2,5 times more expensive than Abrams

      Do you think that with the collapse of the industry, the cost of any technological product, in principle, can be less than foreign?
      In order for tanks to cost less than Abrams in 2010, it is necessary to carry out continuous modernization of production since 1991.
      So greed - God forbid in 2-3 place ...
      And even zero salaries do not compensate for the lack of the right equipment. As they used to laugh - a million Chinese will not launch a rocket from a slingshot.
    3. Reklastik
      Reklastik 17 September 2022 09: 45
      +12
      When such an article - it is objective. But when the same theses are expressed in the comments - immediately minuses, the label of "Akhedzhakov-all-throwers." Paradox! laughing
    4. DenVB
      DenVB 17 September 2022 10: 26
      +11
      Quote: Bronik
      Serdyukov, when he was a minister, categorically refused to buy: 1. "Armaty"

      Very interesting. Considering that it was under Serdyukov that the development of Almaty began. Serdyukov refused to accept the T-95, it's true.
      1. chetvertak
        chetvertak 17 September 2022 13: 03
        0
        And they were left without the T-95 and armata for as much as 13 years, or maybe more! Then they abandoned many developments and put them into production. It’s not a frail term to deprive the country of tanks, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles because of one armata. Cool next optimization of GDP, Serdyukov Shoigu! Serdyukov's son-in-law V Zubkov
    5. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 17 September 2022 19: 41
      +6
      Quote: Bronik
      Objective article One of the few. Many are captive. Serdyukov, when he was a minister, categorically refused to buy: 1. "Armaty" - 2,5 times more expensive than Abrams, 2. "Kurgans" - 6 times more expensive than Iveco. (someone wrote to me that, on the other hand, Kurganets can swim across water barriers of 80 m). Funny. But it was removed by patriotic directors of the military-industrial complex. Who would doubt that. So or not?


      What nonsense ... Armata appeared AFTER Serdyukov, like the Kurgan. How could poor Seryukov refuse to buy something that was not there?
      Further, the Kurganets is an infantry fighting vehicle, and the Iveco lynx is a light armored car. For your information, an infantry fighting vehicle is always more expensive than an armored car.
    6. karabas86
      karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 43
      +3
      What Armata with a stool, which one to buy? In 2015, they showed it for the first time at the parade.
    7. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 September 2022 12: 12
      +1
      Quote: Bronik
      1. "Armaty" - 2,5 times more expensive than Abrams,

      And what is the cost of "Abrams" in question? Who has new-production Abrams, produced from scratch, and not modernized from existing cases?
      In our country, the cost of the T-72 can be calculated as only 52 million - in the B3 version. smile
  3. Bronik
    Bronik 17 September 2022 05: 06
    -17
    In August 1989 he was in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, at an aircraft factory. In the workshop, at the assembly of the aircraft, some kind of oil leaks and oily rags are lying around. Not very clean. And it was amazing when some worker came up to the corner and pissed. That's horrible. horror that was. Nightmare. In September 2004, he was at the Boeing aircraft factory. City of Tulsa, Oklahoma. The countryman called, sort of like boasting. Just do not write that he cleaned the toilets. This is the stereotype of some narrow-minded and illiterate people. He passed all sorts of checks, tolerances, etc. They also read some rules to me, hung up a pass and took me through the plant management. Kind of like a museum exhibit. Naturally, they were not allowed into the workshops. By the way, strategic bombers B-2 are made there.
    1. Maxim G
      Maxim G 17 September 2022 05: 47
      +2
      What conclusion did you draw from this story?
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 17 September 2022 05: 50
      +6
      Quote: Bronik
      And it was amazing when some worker came up to the corner and ...

      Do you know the difference between an engineer and a proletarian? The engineer will first take off, then wash his hands, and the proletarian, on the contrary. And the proletarian described above, apparently, was finally too lazy to wash his hands.
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 17 September 2022 06: 25
        +3
        Quote: Nagan
        And the proletarian described above, apparently, was finally too lazy to wash his hands.

        ?? belay
        Quote: Bronik
        when some worker came up to the corner and pissed.

        He just washed his hands... repeat
      2. Sergey Drozdov
        Sergey Drozdov 17 September 2022 08: 00
        +2
        Are you, comrade, an engineer? Tip: wash your hands before and after - you will be healthier.
    3. know-it-two
      know-it-two 17 September 2022 06: 27
      +32
      Oh, these storytellers ...))) Firstly, the B-2 was no longer produced in 2004 (the last aircraft with tail number 82-1066 (Spirit of America) was built in 2000, and secondly, it was produced by Northrop Grumman, and not Boeing. It's like seeing an Audi on a Mercedes assembly line...)))
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 17 September 2022 06: 59
        +6
        Quote: know-two
        Firstly, the B-2 was no longer produced in 2004 ... the last aircraft ... was built in 2000. It's like seeing an Audi on a Mercedes assembly line...)))
        Yes, and they built them in California, Porta Rivera, they fought for secrecy.
        To be fair, Boeing was in tandem with Northrop, but number two
        1. UAZ 452
          UAZ 452 17 September 2022 12: 04
          0
          Well, there could be one assembly production, but individual components and assemblies could be produced at dozens of factories throughout the country, and not even only in the states.
          1. know-it-two
            know-it-two 17 September 2022 13: 45
            +3
            They could, but only if the author moved from 2004 to 2000 in a time machine ... laughing
            1. UAZ 452
              UAZ 452 17 September 2022 14: 02
              +1
              Well, claims to the author, I'm just also trying to understand - what was meant. Spare parts for "Spirit" are probably still being produced, since it is still in service, they could mean that they produced units for V-2 before. And it may well be that a friend of the author of the comment just wanted to throw dust in his eyes a little, for our man. laughing
              1. rtutaloe
                rtutaloe 17 September 2022 17: 22
                -1
                B-2s could not be produced there, but undergo scheduled maintenance or modernization. Which, in principle, is not without secrecy, and for a distant person it looks exactly the same. The frame of the aircraft is standing and its parts are being changed, and something is being modernized. What problems? What are you hooked on for inaccuracy?
                1. know-it-two
                  know-it-two 17 September 2022 21: 32
                  0
                  Yeah ... Boeing "mastered" Northrop Grumman's money ... laughing
                  1. rtutaloe
                    rtutaloe 17 September 2022 22: 17
                    -1
                    Chudsk just confused B-2 and B-52. What is the problem?
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. chetvertak
      chetvertak 17 September 2022 13: 25
      +11
      Our FSB also checks everyone! Yes, it checks that only relatives, classmates of the director, boss, end up in positions in a defense plant
    6. tTshka
      tTshka 17 September 2022 22: 34
      0
      In August 1989 was .... blah blah blah
      Are you not Peace-door-ball, sir?!
  4. Maxim G
    Maxim G 17 September 2022 05: 07
    -7
    A couple of comments/questions.
    1.
    The T-14 project is a continuation of the developments of the Soviet era on the topic of a tank for network-centric warfare. Hence, the T-14 is not an MBT, according to the concept of network-centric warfare, it is used primarily as a reconnaissance vehicle, target designation and fire adjustment for self-propelled guns, air defense systems and T-90 tanks as part of a tactical level.

    And that several types of aircraft and UAVs cannot be used for these purposes?

    2. About the release of the Tu-160m, did anyone understand this at all?
    Do we really need a strategic, long-range bomber / missile carrier?
    And if so, what are the options:
    1. All three Tu-160, Tu-95MS, Tu-22M3M.
    2. One of them.
    3. Two of them, complementing each other.
    4. In general, a new car, maybe based on a civilian airliner, a business jet with reconnaissance systems, plus missiles (at least as an addition). The possibility of the latter is confirmed by a modern American PLO aircraft, rumors about a strike on an American destroyer not by the Mirage, but by a converted Falcon, and information erased from the Dassault website about the possibility of equipping this family with missiles.

    3. I think it's time to move away from Su-25 attack aircraft, Su-34 front-line bombers towards MFIs based on the Su-35, Su-30 and UBS Yak-130.
    In the future, with the creation of one MFI of a new generation and a heavier and more thrust-armed UBS like the T-50 of South Korea, the T-7 of the USA.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that these machines will replace inexpensive front-line fighters of the F-16 type (which is confirmed, the fleet of Soviet fighters from Azerbaijan and Poland has been replaced by the South Korean UBS).

    4. MLRS and drones, everything is clear here.
    First, we need new ammunition, more accurate and a trucker, expanding the range of supplies used.

    Secondly, an increase in the reconnaissance range, adjustments, the quality of information and the distance of its transmission, the ability to interact with various branches of the military, and simplification of operation.
    In general, it is necessary to decide what kind of drones we need.
    Personally, in my opinion, palm-sized drones and oversized drones (larger than TB2) are not needed, as well as impact drones and drones with turboprop, turbofan engines.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 17 September 2022 07: 04
      +10
      Quote: Maxim G
      It seems to me it's time to get away from Su-25 attack aircraft, Su-34 front-line bombers

      If we use aviation, as is done in a special operation, then we simply need attack aircraft and armored fighter-bombers.
      1. Maxim G
        Maxim G 17 September 2022 07: 13
        -3
        Posted in another thread.
        1. Let's go back to my first post.
        "Cheap and simple UAVs are needed as scouts and spotters.
        And shock UAVs are a waste of money.
        They will direct artillery with a corrected projectile, MLRS with a guided missile.
        Or an aircraft / helicopter, which will be out of reach of MANPADS and small air defense systems, or will be in WWI, moreover, equipped with defense systems ("Vitebsk", SPECTRA)".

        Not a word about the Ka-52 with NARs.

        Further, in response to another participant, I wrote.

        "No one is already hovering over the battlefields hung with NARs and free-falling bombs, because of the danger of getting a missile from MANPADS or a small air defense system on a car chassis (for example).

        Now, to strike at ground targets, you need an airplane / helicopter (IFI, UBS, if we talk about airplanes, and the helicopter here can probably only be armored), which, without entering the affected area, will launch a rocket or drop a planning bomb, including with external target designation with UAV.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 17 September 2022 08: 19
          +6
          Yes, everything is so. I agree with you. We need reconnaissance UAVs and drills.
          1. Vikxnumx
            Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 10
            +1
            Yes, everything is so. I agree with you. We need reconnaissance UAVs and drills.

            before the 1991 Gulf War, the Americans launched a pair of (EMNIP) reconnaissance satellites for the region. Isn't it time to start mod from the trampoline. K-36 without a parachute of the former Chief Katsmanaut? Where are the satellites???
        2. Genry
          Genry 17 September 2022 09: 06
          +3
          Quote: Maxim G
          And shock UAVs are a waste of money.

          Percussion are needed for nomadic targets and for "free hunting", when a good target is turned up during reconnaissance.
          1. UAZ 452
            UAZ 452 17 September 2022 12: 11
            +4
            One way or another, but at the present stage, a good ammunition (guided missile, for example) in combination with good communications, reconnaissance, control means much more than the most modern carrier for this ammunition. That is, an AWACS aircraft based on obsolete civilian airliners, plus transport aircraft that drop high-precision missiles almost through a hole in the bottom, dangling over their territory, will bring the enemy many more problems than the Su-57 or other prodigies flying at supersonic speed over the territory the enemy in order to "drop" the Dnieper bridge with a free-falling FAB.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Alf
              Alf 17 September 2022 20: 02
              +4
              Quote: UAZ 452
              will bring the enemy many more problems than the Su-57 or other prodigies, rushing at supersonic speed over enemy territory in order to "drop" the Dnieper bridge with a free-falling FAB.

              The funny thing is that the Skyraiders in Vietnam brought more benefits to the infantry than the supersonic F precisely because of the low speed, simplicity, maintainability, and faster response time.
            3. Vikxnumx
              Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 11
              0
              combined with good communications, reconnaissance, and control, they mean much more than the most modern carrier for this ammunition.

              Where can I get all this???
      2. Chaikovsky
        Chaikovsky 17 September 2022 09: 30
        -11
        And there is nothing about Solntsepek in the article, is it a new weapon, in Soviet times there was no analogue? Does he decide something significant in combat conditions? Judging by the videos distributed by the MO, it really sucks phenomenally.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 17 September 2022 11: 53
          +6
          Quote: Tchaikovsky
          Solntsepek

          Modernization of the Buratino complex, which was already in service. Therefore, not just the analogue itself was, but it was exactly it, but not in an improved version.
          TOS-1 "Pinocchio" was developed in the period from 1971 to 1979 at the Design Bureau of Transport Engineering (Omsk) together with NIIFP (Zelenograd), which was responsible for on-board equipment

          Well, what was the improvement. As you can see, for the machine itself, only the number of guides was reduced and that's it. The rest is Soviet.
          The main differences from the basic version[5]:

          The number of rails on the combat vehicle has been reduced from 30 to 24.
          The transport-loading vehicle is made on the basis of the main T-72 tank (in the basic modification it was placed on the chassis of a KrAZ truck)
          1. Chaikovsky
            Chaikovsky 17 September 2022 13: 56
            +2
            Sometimes something that is done well and thoughtfully does not need much improvement, because it is so good. This means that this technique was made by smart people the way it should be, and by and large there is nothing to improve.
            The number of guides was reduced, of course I don’t know what it gave, and why it was done, well, apparently there is a reason for this.
    2. LastPS
      LastPS 17 September 2022 08: 27
      +9
      About the release of the Tu-160m, did anyone understand this at all?
      Do we really need a strategic, long-range bomber / missile carrier?

      It’s necessary, such machines can be very effective - in a matter of hours, deliver a pack of KR almost anywhere and, acting outside enemy air defense, it’s worth a lot to complete certain tasks, besides, no one else is able to lift such KR aircraft in commercial quantities, and progress in hypersonic missiles makes these aircraft even more relevant - a carrier is needed. Modification / construction of new TU-160 is the right decision. The concept of using long-range aviation has changed a long time ago and now it’s just a delivery vehicle for the Kyrgyz Republic that doesn’t need to overcome air defense, so the 160th doesn’t differ much from PAK DA, it’s a stupid bomb carrier. Yes, PAK YES would be better, but not fundamentally, and its development would gobble up a lot of money.
      It seems to me that it is time to move away from Su-25 attack aircraft, Su-34 front-line bombers towards MFIs based on the Su-35, Su-30 and UBS Yak-130.

      The whole snag is the lack of commercial quantities of guided weapons, if this problem is solved, then yes, it will finally be possible to retire the 25th and not endanger precious personnel. Everything will come to this anyway, the fleet of 25s is limited, and new ones have never been built on the territory of the Russian Federation, and why do it at all - a relic of the past, used because there are no KABs, and the accuracy of bombing with uncontrolled cast iron is even lower, than the work of the 25th.
      1. DenVB
        DenVB 17 September 2022 10: 38
        -3
        Quote: LastPS
        a relic of the past, used because there are no KABs, and the accuracy of bombing with unguided cast iron is even lower than the work of the 25s.

        It is the CABs that this aircraft needs. Convert it to an attack drone - remove the pilot, throw out the cockpit along with the ejection seat and armor, this will dramatically reduce the mass and increase the payload.
        1. LastPS
          LastPS 17 September 2022 16: 01
          +1
          KABs are needed in combination with a universal aiming container, then in general it will be possible to make any combat aircraft a strike aircraft. There are not so many SU-25s left, the program for converting this aircraft into an UAV is meaningless, the KAB carrier will not enter the air defense coverage area, then it’s better to remake the 27th, there are more of them and the unification is higher, and give the near zone to attack helicopters.
      2. Maxim G
        Maxim G 17 September 2022 13: 39
        -1
        1. Why not Tu-95MS? Or a civilian liner.
        2. I specified below about what such an aircraft should use.
        1. LastPS
          LastPS 17 September 2022 15: 46
          +2
          1. Why not Tu-95MS? Or a civilian liner.

          I think they chose the 160th platform because it is newer, it can switch to supersonic, which significantly increases the deployment speed - it quickly reached, fired back, quickly left.
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 10: 14
      +5
      I would add that nosebleeds are needed for AWACS aircraft. Better unmanned and constellation of reconnaissance, communications and target designation satellites.
      1. UAZ 452
        UAZ 452 17 September 2022 12: 19
        +6
        Now this is almost impossible - electronics for AWACS and reconnaissance satellites require quite specific ones, they are not produced in a garage at all, so tracking deliveries is a completely solvable task for non-partners. So the sanctions in this industry have narrowed our opportunities and prospects in the foreseeable future (in the horizon of 10 years - exactly) to almost zero.
        PS The Hegemon is now testing a new technology for world ownership - if it turns out that the side that gets access to satellite intelligence data has an absolute advantage in any conflict, then it will be vital for the United States to monopolize this area. And then they will not need to spend hundreds of billions to be the strongest in every respect - it is enough to be the most informed of all.
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. Maxim G
        Maxim G 17 September 2022 17: 32
        -1
        Where are you from, from the Donbass?
        Tell me.
        Let's talk.
        1. rtutaloe
          rtutaloe 17 September 2022 22: 15
          -3
          Yes, let's do. Talk to me. What problems?
      2. Maxim G
        Maxim G 17 September 2022 17: 48
        -1


        So what's up with "your" Crimea, a friend from the Donbass?)
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Maxim G
            Maxim G 18 September 2022 01: 22
            -2
            Why are you at enmity with Russia, since you are from the Donbass?
    5. karabas86
      karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 50
      0
      Armenians look at you with bewilderment.
      1. Maxim G
        Maxim G 18 September 2022 07: 36
        -1
        Why are the Armenians perplexed, tell me?
        1. karabas86
          karabas86 18 September 2022 10: 28
          +1
          they somehow didn’t seem useless shock UAVs
          1. Maxim G
            Maxim G 18 September 2022 13: 20
            0
            In Nagorno-Karabakh there was no modern systems Air defense.
  5. Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 05: 54
    +12
    The article is correct. The reasons lie on the surface: after the collapse of the USSR, the country hit the trade. And the West actively helped this. As a result, there is a cult of money, which is now the easiest way to earn, not by creating, but by trading. The manager is essentially a salesperson. What services, what goods. Being an engineer is not prestigious. Being a worker is not prestigious. The state, by the way, contributes to this with all its might. "All according to the diploma of the university!" - an excellent slogan, only in the USSR there was a distribution system for young specialists. Graduated from a university - work for several years in your specialty, and then it's your business. And now? Graduate engineers who have just graduated from high school go to work where they can get more money, and at the same time work less. For young people, a diploma is important, and not a chosen profession, many initially according to their profile and are not going to work. To rectify the situation, it is necessary first of all to restore prestige to the engineers. Lower the prestige of management, remove the cult of "dough". The further the collapse of the USSR, the better it is seen that we are moving away from the correct system somewhere in the direction of the United States. For me, it is necessary to get rid of universities that produce a bunch of lawyers-economists. Leave a couple pieces all over the country. With crazy competition. The rest are either closed or retrained to produce specialists needed by the country. A HE diploma is recognized only if its holder works in the specialty. Engineer? Are you an office manager? You don't have VO. Go study as a manager, then your education will be valid. Or don't study, all the same, in any business, the head is important, not the "crust". Convinced by my own experience.
    1. kin
      kin 17 September 2022 07: 12
      +9
      Let's not say that the country hit trade, just like that. This vector has set and sets, let's say the state, as the ruling class. This slogan, profit who, as it may sound today from every iron. It will be possible to restore prestige to the professions of workers and engineering only when the top stops clinging to power with all their might. When real opposition appears in the country, when it becomes possible, without being afraid to criticize the actions of the government, point out its mistakes and change course.
      We are not moving towards the USA, we are moving towards feudalism.
      1. Dilettante grandfather
        Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 07: 25
        +2
        And in the USA - not feudalism, not a dictatorship? smile
        At the expense of real opposition. With all due respect, in the USSR there was even one party, the CPSU. Nevertheless, the top worked for the people. Let not always, albeit with errors, but they worked. The education system was the best in the world, as practice shows: our Soviet specialists were in demand everywhere. Working professions were quite prestigious. There were enough engineers and scientists, literate, and not for the sake of VO or "crusts": we still use and modernize many developments. So we need to return this system. And the opposition is such an ephemeral thing. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation, the Liberal Democratic Party - are considered the opposition, but in fact they do not promote anything particularly oppositional. hi
        1. kin
          kin 17 September 2022 08: 45
          +3
          In the USSR, decisions were discussed and adopted by the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, and these were not nominal institutions of state administration. Is there something similar that actually works in Russia?
          1. Dilettante grandfather
            Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 09: 06
            -6
            In the USSR, decisions were discussed and made by the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, and these were not nominal institutions of government
            Politburo - yes. All decisions were made there. As well as in the Supreme Council. Another issue is that there was no opposition. There was no real country of Soviets - decisions were made not by councils, but by a limited number of people.
            In Russia, state institutions of management are functioning. Not the way you or I want, but they work. Prime Minister Mishustin, President, ministers. Another thing is that they, just like the Central Committee of the CPSU, make those decisions that are beneficial from their point of view. And not necessarily beneficial to the people.
            I won't say anything about the deputies, simply because many of the laws adopted by the Duma since 1991 have little contact with reality, and no one monitors their implementation. Suffice it to recall the law on taxis, the law on smoking, the law on the prohibition of drinking alcohol in public places ... The police look after this for a maximum of six months or a year. Then - they will see, there is a mood - they approached. No - turned away.
            The state has distanced itself from any business, here is another mistake. In China, for example, they took a more correct path.
            1. kin
              kin 17 September 2022 09: 19
              +4
              You see, there was a pluralism of opinions in the governing body, this was the opposition, albeit not a party one. The late USSR, here I agree with you, there were excesses, because. Gorbachev, to some extent, usurped power. But before this period, everything worked for the good of the country, the people, in every sense. And at the moment we see that apart from yachts, accounts, oligarchs, etc., there are no achievements. Then how does it all work, negative lift?
              1. Dilettante grandfather
                Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 09: 30
                +1
                As I understand it, now the government is not working for the entire state, but for its own management resource (I mean domestic politics). On state employees - too. For pensioners.
                But for the whole state, the essence of which is the population and territory, they work, but not in the same way as it was under the USSR. No one is particularly concerned about the problem of unemployment, for example. Well, the enterprise went bankrupt, a hundred turners were conditionally fired there, and all right. They will go as security guards, plumbers - who cares? To be honest, it doesn't suit me. As well as the fact that the same bloggers, without actually producing anything, earn money. My opinion: you like to show how beautifully you had a rest in Sochi, no one is against it. But you don't have to pay for it.
                I don't like a lot. Probably because I am a Soviet person. hi
                1. karabas86
                  karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 55
                  +1
                  Pensioners look at you with bewilderment.
                2. Magellan
                  Magellan 18 September 2022 01: 25
                  +1
                  As I understand it, now the government is not working for the entire state, but for its own management resource (I mean domestic politics). On state employees - too. For pensioners.

                  For pensioners??? Do you think pensioners are well provided for now? What is the normal amount of your pension should be?
                  1. Dilettante grandfather
                    Dilettante grandfather 18 September 2022 05: 25
                    -3
                    Provided is not normal. But on the part of the authorities, I personally see attempts to slightly alleviate the situation of pensioners. Compensation, benefits.
        2. LastPS
          LastPS 17 September 2022 08: 50
          +9
          Nevertheless, the top worked for the people. Let not always, albeit with errors, but they worked.

          One of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR is the inefficient, snickering nomenklatura, sitting in their chairs upstairs until they are carried forward with their feet. Improved.
          If you want to restore the prestige of the profession, pay the appropriate money, people want to live well, when there is nothing to eat, no idea will help, and what idea can there be when the state has discredited itself for decades.
          1. Dilettante grandfather
            Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 09: 08
            +4
            Quote: LastPS
            Nevertheless, the top worked for the people. Let not always, albeit with errors, but they worked.

            One of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR is the inefficient, snickering nomenklatura, sitting in their chairs upstairs until they are carried forward with their feet. Improved.
            If you want to restore the prestige of the profession, pay the appropriate money, people want to live well, when there is nothing to eat, no idea will help, and what idea can there be when the state has discredited itself for decades.

            I agree with this. With the nomenclature, which snickered, too. I'm just surprised that the current officials do not notice the obvious.
            1. kin
              kin 17 September 2022 09: 25
              +1
              Stanislav Lem described that aliens consider humanity to be a virus that, having bred, destroys its planet. So is bureaucracy in the country, it is a virus that will kill its carrier
              1. Dilettante grandfather
                Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 09: 32
                +3
                You can't do without officials. Unfortunately.
            2. LastPS
              LastPS 17 September 2022 17: 49
              +3
              Yes, they all know and see very well, it’s just that there is no such task, it’s easier to deal with cuts while there is something to saw, and no one wants to squander the budget on “wise men”, then they will get less money. Do you know how science works? There is a conditional group of associates who are given grants for some kind of abstraction and no one cares that the topic being developed is unpromising or not needed at all, how this grant is sawed is a separate issue altogether, but there are situations when real breakthroughs are underfunded, because freeloaders should live well. As a result, we are lagging behind in almost all areas of the military-industrial complex, and not only in the military-industrial complex.
              1. karabas86
                karabas86 17 September 2022 20: 57
                0
                That's right. Why are they downvoted, for the truth? Everything, even good things, that is done with an ulterior purpose, to steal something, as an example of "quantoriums".
      2. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 15
        -1
        Let's not say that the country hit trade, just like that. This vector has set and sets, let's say the state, as the ruling class.

        And even one prez... personally sent teachers there!
    2. Dmitry Rigov
      Dmitry Rigov 17 September 2022 07: 42
      +3
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      The further the collapse of the USSR, the better it is seen that we are moving away from the correct system somewhere in the direction of the United States.

      And what's wrong with that? The United States has modern aviation / navy / submarines / semiconductors, this would not hurt us either.
      1. Dilettante grandfather
        Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 09: 13
        -9
        About the fleet. Approximately half of their "modern" aircraft carriers, as the Americans themselves write, it's time to write off and dispose of. By aviation. Can you tell me why the modern US Air Force would suddenly decide to extend the service life of the A-10 and B-52 again? ..
        The US submarine fleet is no better than ours.
        The only thing I can agree with is that our electronics production is not up to par. But! In the US, it is also not particularly developed - most of the components are not made in America. And the turmoil around Taiwan is also connected with this.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 17 September 2022 12: 08
          +6
          Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
          The only thing I can agree with is that our electronics production is not up to par. But! In the US, it is also not particularly developed - most of the components are not made in America. And the turmoil around Taiwan is also connected with this.

          Their aircraft carriers are scheduled to serve for 50 years, and are replaced regularly upon reaching this period. Updated regularly, etc. And what can be especially improved in a floating airfield?
          They extend the service life, because there is a need to supply Ukraine with airplanes, you can not write off the A-10 and B-52, but for example, transfer it to Ukraine.
          PLA is much better, for example, reactors that serve the entire life of the PLA without recharging, exclusively nuclear-powered PLA in the fleet, and so on.
          The US produces more than 10% of the world's chips. Just in Taiwan 50%, so such a nix.
        2. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 17
          0
          The US submarine fleet is no better than ours.

          Only SLIGHTLY MORE!!! And he is not afraid to enter the Sea of ​​​​Okhotsk ...
      2. bar
        bar 17 September 2022 09: 14
        -4
        The bad thing is that we will never be able to create printing for printing dollars, for which the United States allows itself to have aviation / navy / submarines ...
        1. Dmitry Rigov
          Dmitry Rigov 17 September 2022 15: 26
          +2
          Who forbids us to print rubles? And sell resources for them?
    3. skeptick2
      skeptick2 17 September 2022 10: 31
      +7
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      Being an engineer is not prestigious.

      That's just not necessary generalizations and loud phrases. Did you yourself work as an engineer in the USSR? Do you know that a university graduate after joining the workshop (and for a long time after that) received a salary of 148 rubles? 120 rub. hands "clean"? Given that decent shoes in the market cost 40 rubles.? And the hard worker in the shop received 200-300 rubles? What kind of prestige of an engineer can we talk about? If the same master was constantly rushing about in search of a part-time job?
      More or less normally received engineering and technical personnel only in mailboxes, in hazardous industries and in the North.
      1. Rosemary
        Rosemary 17 September 2022 10: 47
        +8
        Quote from: skeptick2
        That's just not necessary generalizations and loud phrases. Did you yourself work as an engineer in the USSR? Do you know that a university graduate after joining the workshop (and for a long time after that) received a salary of 148 rubles? 120 rub. hands "clean"? Given that decent shoes in the market cost 40 rubles.? And the hard worker in the shop received 200-300 rubles? What kind of prestige of an engineer can we talk about? If the same master was constantly rushing about in search of a part-time job?
        More or less normally received engineering and technical personnel only in mailboxes, in hazardous industries and in the North.


        I remember a Soviet-era article in the Trud newspaper, where they wrote indignantly about the facts that engineers withheld their higher technical education when they were employed by workers in the shop.
      2. Dilettante grandfather
        Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 10: 53
        -2
        I didn't work as an engineer. He worked as a car mechanic, then as a driver. I dare to assure you: a car mechanic of the 4th category received 90 rubles in his hands. At the same time, I had enough money to buy every month in Soyuzpechat from a Japanese audio cassette. 9p if you don't remember. JVC. Every month, for a paycheck, food packages were delivered to the motor depot. On average - a gold piece, about that. Meat or bones, stew, sprat in tomato, cereals, sausage cheese, processed cheese ... For the holidays - a couple of bottles of imported beer or champagne.
        Given that decent shoes in the market cost 40 rubles.?
        So it turns out who fed the speculators and helped the collapse of the USSR! It was necessary to dress in stores, and not at a flea market! You would also write that you bought jeans there!
        As a driver, by the way, I received the same 120-125 rubles in my hands. So do not talk about the poverty of Soviet engineers. My wife is a chemical engineer. And we had enough to live on.
      3. Obliterator
        Obliterator 17 September 2022 12: 06
        +9
        Quote from: skeptick2
        That's just not necessary generalizations and loud phrases. Did you yourself work as an engineer in the USSR? Do you know that a university graduate after joining the workshop (and for a long time after that) received a salary of 148 rubles? 120 rub. hands "clean"? Given that decent shoes in the market cost 40 rubles.? And the hard worker in the shop received 200-300 rubles? What kind of prestige of an engineer can we talk about? If the same master was constantly rushing about in search of a part-time job?
        More or less normally received engineering and technical personnel only in mailboxes, in hazardous industries and in the North.

        Perhaps even now the picture has not changed much. We have a factory in the city that produces electronics for military equipment. The salary of a young engineer there is less than 25 tr. With such realities, the military-industrial complex simply has no future.
        1. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 23
          0
          We have a factory in the city that produces electronics for military equipment. The salary of a young engineer there is less than 25 tr. With such realities, the military-industrial complex simply has no future.

          We also have a plant in the city ... They make it for the fleet, and for the market ... Both engineers and designers receive 1,3 ... 1,5 times more than a worker. Only the salary (about the average for the Russian Federation according to the authorities) is much less than Maskavsky ...
    4. UAZ 452
      UAZ 452 17 September 2022 12: 22
      +3
      Being an engineer is not prestigious. Being a worker is not prestigious.

      Did it start with the collapse of the USSR? Rather, this is what led to the collapse. Or do you want to say that in the 70s and 80s it was no longer more prestigious to work as a waiter in a restaurant or a sales assistant in a store (where there was a shortage) than to go to a factory (for sure, an engineer)? If you say this, then you and I lived in different USSR.
      1. Dilettante grandfather
        Dilettante grandfather 17 September 2022 12: 48
        +2
        Depended on the environment. And from the place of residence. Probably, in Moscow or Leningrad it was like that. Here, in Sverdlovsk, the men did not even think about the profession of a salesman or a waiter. In trade and public catering went, in the vast majority, girls. Guys - someone to the institute, someone to the technical school, and the majority - to production. Work. From my graduation 10th grade, two entered the university, one went to the technical school. Six went to work. Turner, locksmith. I'm talking about guys, not about girls, if that. There were 10 of us in the class, for 28 girls. Yes. One and only - went to Moscow. I did not count him, he was two years younger than us, he graduated from two classes as an external student, studied 9-10 with us. Wunderkind. Gold medal. He was immediately taken from school to Moscow State University. After 4 years, it seems, he defended his PhD in mathematics ...
  6. Procopius Nesterov
    Procopius Nesterov 17 September 2022 05: 57
    -5
    To really fight seriously you need serious weapons. And this, sorry, is not fifty-year-old tanks with mounted elements of the old remote sensing.
    The United States has seventy-year-old tanks, so what?
    1. yawa63
      yawa63 17 September 2022 07: 02
      +3
      I completely agree. At the enterprise where I work after my military pension, I often, according to the job description, conduct an interview with specialist applicants for a position (mainly technical), laughter and sin, graduates of paid universities often not only have no idea about their specialty, but and make inflated demands on the payment of their labor, they say, "... I have a diploma!".
      1. kin
        kin 17 September 2022 08: 52
        +7
        And how did you want? A fully prepared specialist will leave the university? Yes, this has never happened. Always had to teach both theory and practice. I worked from an electrician to a shop foreman and there were always those who would prompt, help, etc.
        And why shouldn't the employee be paid a decent salary, so that he appreciates the workplace, he has an incentive to study? What do you see in this bad? Normally, you want to demand from them, but they don’t from the employer. I look at vacancies at Sukhoi PJSC 35-40, and the quality of work will be the same. All these joint-stock companies keep the staff half-starved, taking all the profits into the pockets of the shareholders, but there is no money for development.
        1. yawa63
          yawa63 18 September 2022 07: 43
          0
          Ready-unready specialist - but he must know at least something in his specialty !!! But he also lacks basic knowledge! Those who are freely operated from the operator to the foreman and above, for example, what is the meaning of sidetracking (sidetracking) and the main stages of its implementation - well, you see, a person with an engineering specialized education must know this, otherwise why did he study then? I understand that he has no experience, but he should know the theory at least a little bit! Why do the vast majority of graduates of state-owned oil and gas universities know this, while a graduate of a certain oil and gas department of a private university has no idea about it? That's what I'm talking about...
  7. Bronik
    Bronik 17 September 2022 05: 58
    +3
    Quote: Sotnik11.74
    It looks like a joke..
    Now the same China will not allow you to carry out any industrialization ..
    Why should they? And where to sell socks with calculators and where to take oil and gas at half price then ..
    By the way, let me remind you that the United States helped in many ways in Stalin's industrialization

    For all the 50s, the USSR built hundreds of plants and factories in China, maybe not on the highest technologies. But he created an industrial base for the country, although his own has not yet departed from the war. And then the "Land of the Rising Sun" gave a kick, just as in the late 70s the UAR also gave a kick, although a colossal amount of money and weapons were invested there. But the elders in the Politburo still stepped on the rake and continued to invest billions and billions in supposedly friendly countries. And they unanimously gave them a kick and another kick. Here is such a story. So or not?
  8. demiurg
    demiurg 17 September 2022 06: 00
    +5
    Now let's think about something completely different.
    In the USA, aircraft developed in the 70s, F-15/16/18, are still being assembled. Apache comes from the seventies. Chinook from the 60s. The main US SPG Paladin from the 60s. Abrams is five years younger than the T-72. The main US destroyer developed in the eighties. The US shooter works on the ideas of Stoner from the 60s, and they cannot produce it themselves, they buy licenses. What did the self-propelled grandfather on US punched cards bring to, right?

    The United States has been sawing a replacement for the Abrams in light parts for more than 30 years. Now it seems like the third option is being launched in a trial series.

    But seriously, any weapon, or rather any complex equipment on the planet, can be traced back to 20-30-40-50 years ago.

    Roman, can I ask you what the T-72 of 1972 and the T-72B3 have in common, that you brush them one size fits all, did you take part in the melting of metal at least once, or did you assemble the simplest radio receiver with your own hands?
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 17 September 2022 06: 18
      0
      Quote: demiurg
      Have you ever taken part in the melting of metal, or did you assemble the simplest radio receiver with your own hands?

      Can a casting sinker made of lead be considered metal smelting? belay repeat
      I assembled receivers and repaired b/w Soviet-made TVs...So what?
      The novel listed the facts. But in essence:
      Quote: demiurg
      But seriously, any weapon, or rather any complex equipment on the planet, can be traced back to 20-30-40-50 years ago.

      It's not about the history of origin and belonging to one or another developer, in the amount produced in units, tons, pieces, meters, etc.
      And here, in a liberal market economy:

      NO PERSPECTIVE AND DO NOT VISIBLE!!!
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 17 September 2022 06: 44
      +1
      Quote: demiurg
      But seriously, any weapon, or rather any complex equipment on the planet, can be traced back to 20-30-40-50 years ago.

      According to the logic of the author of the article, almost all Soviet equipment is the modernization of the tsarist artillery, French and British tanks and aircraft.
    3. t-12
      t-12 17 September 2022 07: 18
      0
      Abrams is five years younger than the T-72.
      The Abrams last fought 30 years ago in Iraq. Since then, the ways of warfare have changed: the US Army uses a combination of "guided bombs or artillery shells + reconnaissance drones."

      Strelkovka works on the well-known laws of physics. But here are night vision devices, collimator sights, general standardization (all sorts of Picatinny rails there).
  9. Architect
    Architect 17 September 2022 06: 00
    -4
    Does it make sense to fight NATO?
    In which the total budget for military spending is 8 times more than the GDP of the Russian Federation.
    1. IVZ
      IVZ 17 September 2022 06: 53
      +4
      In order not to fight with the enemy bloc, it is necessary that they were afraid to fight with us.
      1. UAZ 452
        UAZ 452 17 September 2022 12: 32
        +9
        In this case, CBO clearly led to a completely opposite result.
        1. IVZ
          IVZ 17 September 2022 13: 52
          -7
          CBO has not led to anything yet - it has not ended.
          1. UAZ 452
            UAZ 452 17 September 2022 14: 11
            +2
            If you do not analyze the intermediate results, then the final results will inevitably be such that no one (in our country) will be happy. Even if "everything is going according to plan", this does not negate the need to correct this plan as it progresses.
            1. IVZ
              IVZ 17 September 2022 15: 45
              -1
              I absolutely agree with you, but here's the plan - I just don't know. And summing up the results of an unfinished process without understanding it is a thankless task. So far, you can only comment on the progress of the process, but here are the results ... Yes, and I also, to put it mildly, dislike a lot.
  10. leks
    leks 17 September 2022 06: 03
    +8
    Well, even if nothing really changes in the process, then it will hardly change after it. There is practically no responsibility as such anywhere, maximum dismissal from office or a short period of time. And then if they raise a fuss about it in the cart or the media.
  11. Baikal57
    Baikal57 17 September 2022 06: 03
    -10
    A worthless commander and a lazy soldier scolds the entire military-industrial complex, I personally want to start producing BMD-2 in Chelyabinsk on a new one, after all, he fought for 50 years and is in service, but they just don’t give him a “product 305”, but in general all contract soldiers of the Airborne Forces in years upstairs first.
  12. Architect
    Architect 17 September 2022 06: 07
    0
    Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
    For me, it is necessary to get rid of universities that produce a bunch of lawyers-economists.

    And journalists. And then once a month you look at the TV and there are such foreheads sitting at the table, on which you need to plow and the three of them are broadcasting ... like Morning, or cooking shows
    1. IVZ
      IVZ 17 September 2022 16: 01
      +5
      And that will be? Will they join the workers or the army? The point is that if they are paid money, then there is a demand for them. Just an ugly economic model, I don’t even really understand how it even works so far.
  13. yuriy55
    yuriy55 17 September 2022 06: 11
    +9
    What can I say?
    Everything is completely and completely, from machine guns to pistols, with the exception of the ASVK sniper rifle - a Soviet design.
    The prospect is more than doubtful.

    As for the high cost and speed of production, it is better to give to Western bourgeois "partners" 300 dollars or 000 rubles than to invest them in the production of weapons for their army ...
    Over the 30 years of Russia's existence, the military-industrial complex of the country was able to develop not so much.

    On the other hand, a few managers of the highest rank were able to EARN enough from the military-industrial complex to be enough for several generations of direct relatives.
  14. DWG1905
    DWG1905 17 September 2022 06: 13
    +7
    That's right, there are inaccuracies, but we will not disclose. The question is for which armed forces we develop and produce equipment. For a "small" professional or relatively mass. A bet on a small one, as practice shows, something is not very justified. In the battle between quantity and moderate quality, quantity wins. Quality can win if it is at the level of a machine gun against a bow and spears, but this is currently not the case. The average technical level of all opposing sides is approximately the same. So whoever has the most wins. This is one side of the coin, the other is the proportions between different types of aircraft. What is the use of the Strategic Missile Forces or YES if there is no "infantry". Let's wait until the enemy "infantry" arrives at the missile positions or the airfield. This does not mean that the Strategic Missile Forces and YES are not needed, it means that mass "infantry" with V and VT is needed. The quality and technical level of this weaponry and military equipment must be such that the industry can produce it in large quantities to cover losses. Here we are faced with another problem, and who writes TTZ for this technique? As sad and insulting as it is, the Customer (MO) cannot formulate TTZ for weapons and military equipment. This is my experience, work as both a customer and a performer. And why not, the average level of engineering knowledge is lower than in industry, there is no understanding of what the industry can and what is not realistic, frequent personnel changes, not knowing the technical level of the enemy. And as experience shows, they either try to cling to junk or offer fantasy. Therefore, samples B and BT are obtained, which may be perfect, but not suitable for mass production. It is necessary to change the system of orders for weapons and military equipment, maybe it’s worth going back when the Customer formulated the main TTT, and the industry offered options for solving the problem. Yes, this does not mean that it is not necessary to create new "Armat" and PAK YES, design bureaus must continuously design, and pilot production to build promising equipment, gradually what happened will be introduced into the series. This I wrote as gently as possible. By "infantry" I mean the SV itself and everything that ensures their activities, communications, intelligence, aviation, rear, etc. etc.
    1. Genry
      Genry 17 September 2022 09: 40
      +2
      Quote: DWG1905
      It is necessary to change the system of orders for weapons and military equipment, maybe it’s worth going back when the Customer formulated the main TTT, and the industry offered options for solving the problem.

      The industry can only offer what has been developed for a long time and is produced without problems.
      For new needs, as a rule, it is necessary for the industry to "strain" to master new technologies and organize all cooperation according to the specialization and capabilities of each enterprise.
      Quote: DWG1905
      Design bureaus must continuously design, and build advanced equipment for pilot production, gradually what happened will be introduced into the series.


      KB is not limited.
      There is fundamental science that gives ideas for applied science, which is then only realized in advanced products.
      For this chain to work, long-term targeted financing is needed, i.e. specific terms of reference and contracts for research and development have been formed.

      You want a modern supercomputer based on a neural network to drop a shovel of sand at your feet.
      1. DWG1905
        DWG1905 17 September 2022 12: 35
        +2
        Quote: Genry
        There is fundamental science that gives ideas for applied science, which is then only realized in advanced products.

        By industry, I meant science. From fundamental science to mass production, at least 20 years pass. I recommend looking for the term FPPI on the Internet. I agree that it is necessary to finance, but who will be the customer is the question. The Moscow Region cannot have the same level of scholarship, in narrow specialized areas it can, but in general it doesn’t, and there are few real violent ones. Suppose it is impossible to give money directly to the Academy of Sciences, scientists are like spiders, they will not let young people lean out. Theories are right and wrong, and recognized and unrecognized. These are two non-overlapping matters. Our system of science (performer) - customer (ministry) does not contribute much to scientific and technical progress. Because they order recognized theories. We, of course, do not have enough of our DARPA. Not so simple. And about the fact that the article is liberal, that is, hostile. In fact, it is correct, but this does not mean that you have to give up, you have to work.
    2. NG inform
      NG inform 18 September 2022 00: 22
      0
      I am sure that design bureaus and factories are still working as universal omnipotents. This greatly reduces efficiency.
  15. Svarog
    Svarog 17 September 2022 06: 15
    +8
    You can sit for as long as you like and digest budget money, endlessly

    This is the goal of today's leaders and they spit on what will happen tomorrow, the main thing now is to "eat" the pie ..
  16. Adagka
    Adagka 17 September 2022 06: 44
    +8
    What the current defective managers do not undertake - well, they don’t get a stone flower, the output is only dung.
    Most of all, it is puzzling that for thirty years they have been sitting on the dupe evenly, quietly pumping oil and gas for themselves, sawing budgets - including with the Sumerians, children and various scammers were attached to the decaying west. And then suddenly, with a bare bottom, with some kind of fright, we woke up early in the morning and decided to stop enduring this, we will establish a new world order. But here’s the bad luck, given that it always doesn’t work out with a stone flower, and it turned out that in the army the same managers as everywhere else only in uniform, which have no analogues only at exhibitions, the army lacks everything, from and ending to. Including the army itself is not enough.
    Everything is according to the classics - they expected bloodshed from him, but he ate a chizhik.
  17. Bronik
    Bronik 17 September 2022 06: 47
    +2
    Quote: yuriy55
    Quote: Lex_is
    Yes. It's not funny, Serdyukov is the only one who tried to push through the military-industrial complex, in some places even successfully.

    We still remember the Mistrals ... True, on this contract someone was able to “weld” something ...

    Maybe boil. But the fact that the "stupid" French did it in 9 months already says something. Although USC promised to make domestic ones in 5-6 years. Well, 5-6, then there are all 10. The cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" has been under repair since 1999. Well, it's fine!
    1. cmax
      cmax 17 September 2022 17: 48
      +2
      Quote: Bronik
      Quote: yuriy55
      Quote: Lex_is
      Yes. It's not funny, Serdyukov is the only one who tried to push through the military-industrial complex, in some places even successfully.

      We still remember the Mistrals ... True, on this contract someone was able to “weld” something ...

      Maybe boil. But the fact that the "stupid" French did it in 9 months already says something. Although USC promised to make domestic ones in 5-6 years. Well, 5-6, then there are all 10. The cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" has been under repair since 1999. Well, it's fine!

      About the manager of the builder of the fleet, Rakhmanov, you can probably write a candidate's thesis, if not a doctoral one. How to really do nothing and be in the clip of power. How do they manage to stay afloat? I would like to ask Vladimir Vladimirovich. So it won't answer.
  18. Bronik
    Bronik 17 September 2022 06: 57
    -6
    Quote: Maxim G
    3UNREAD 

    Well I do not know. This is probably what you should do. I have lived in the USA for 30 years. Quiet life, without nerves. Everywhere is clean. Was 5 years ago, also at the Boeing plant, Everett, Washington. They collect civilian liners there. Cleanliness is everywhere. People are polite, there is absolutely no rudeness (and not only there). People everywhere are calm. Nobody gets into politics. Maybe some madrigals. In San Francisco, in Portland (Oregon), maybe somewhere else there are enough all sorts of different anarcho-liberos and others. That's what everyday life is like. Rule number one is to be at the right time, in the right place. This is success! Rule number two, you guess.
    1. Maxim G
      Maxim G 17 September 2022 07: 15
      0
      Quote: Bronik
      Well I do not know. This is probably what you should do.

      So from not the right conditions, the correct conclusion cannot be drawn.
    2. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 17 September 2022 11: 37
      +1
      Quiet life, without nerves. Everywhere is clean.
      Wow, but I have a good friend, for a quiet life where he left the United States purely for England, in which was born. Like this?
  19. Dmitrii
    Dmitrii 17 September 2022 07: 03
    -14
    I will most likely be banned, but the author of this article is the moderator of this site. I googled, he is the author of very many and very strange articles. And everything that is written in this article is complete crap. It is not technology that wins wars, but quantity. Ideally, this is a balance between quality and quantity. Let's say there is a medieval knight and 50 peasants against him, the result is obvious. In Ukraine, now the equipment is old on both sides, and this is not just. Like NATO, ours are scrapping everything old. Why the hell risk the SU-57 ??? Or the T-14... Re-equipment is proceeding slowly, but how much faster, if it is now clear to everyone that our government is not homogeneous, as everyone previously thought. And now they will not go anywhere, they will buy new equipment.
    1. Dmitry Rigov
      Dmitry Rigov 17 September 2022 07: 51
      +3
      This would be true if the NWO was somewhere far away and did not touch the territories of Russia. But now the shelling of the border regions has already begun, Ukrainian UAVs are flying openly in Crimea, for how long?
      1. Genry
        Genry 17 September 2022 09: 48
        -4
        Quote: Dmitry Rigov
        This would be true if the NWO was somewhere far away and did not touch the territories of Russia.

        Well, as it were, NWO somewhere, like Spain, it makes no sense to conduct it. It is the treacherous Banderstat that acts as NATO's bridgehead.
        Quote: Dmitry Rigov
        But now the shelling of the border regions has already begun, Ukrainian UAVs are flying openly in Crimea, for how long?

        They were before the start of the NWO. Or are there gaps...
    2. Genry
      Genry 17 September 2022 09: 59
      -12
      Quote from Dmitry
      The author of this article is the moderator of this site. I googled, he is the author of very many and very strange articles. And everything that is written in this article is complete crap.

      Author: Banshee (Skomorokhov) has long been an adherent of Navalny's sect of liberals, so each of his articles contains specific lines: "they screwed up all the polymers," and "Russia can't do anything," and "it's time to blame the West."
      Comments are immediately filled with bots who happily express their "adobryams".

      The site constantly conducts politically directed activities against modern Russia, with strict censorship of information outside of "liberal values".
      1. UAZ 452
        UAZ 452 17 September 2022 12: 41
        +6
        Come on, you. Today, a moderator threw a warning at me here because I doubted the information that since the end of August our armed forces have already destroyed 11 brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. From what side does this correlate with "liberal values"?
    3. Dmitrii
      Dmitrii 17 September 2022 15: 31
      -2
      Well, they threw 6. I have hands with you...
  20. Alexander Ponamarev
    Alexander Ponamarev 17 September 2022 07: 05
    +6
    But our oligarchs have multimillion-dollar yachts, castles, shopping centers around the country, airplanes ...... and they fed all these years the European economy and European loafers at corporate parties, and our people sucked their paw
    1. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 32
      -1
      and our people sucked their paws

      Well, not a paw ....
    2. The comment was deleted.
  21. Bronik
    Bronik 17 September 2022 07: 05
    +1
    Quote: Nagan
    3UNREAD 

    About the culture of production. Was three years ago in the Leningrad region. A colossal port infrastructure has been built. Cargo turnover is higher than that of Klaipeda, Riga, Tallinn and Ventspils. Putin said: "Not an ounce of transit to the Balts." There are hundreds of vacancies from 25 to 95 thousand and more. Then I went to the Ivanovo region. It seems there is relatives - the seventh water on jelly. Several men walk and toil without work. Told them to go there. There is work and money. Answer: "Why should we go there? Let's work here." That's the whole story. That's how they go. They do odd jobs. Well, they thump by themselves.
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. Maxim G
      Maxim G 17 September 2022 07: 31
      +3
      The French built their series of 3 Mistrals for 2,5 years or more, approximately each.
      So lying is not good.
  23. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 17 September 2022 07: 26
    +4
    Quote: Proton
    The article is correct.
    First of all, it is necessary to carry out the industrialization of industry,

    I agree.
    For 30 years, our "effective managers" have not been able to pull up the Russian economy, not only to the level of the USSR, but even to the level of the RSFSR.
    The bureaucracy has expanded enormously. Incomprehensible formations (national republics) as part of the Russian Federation acquired all the elements that were inaccessible under the Soviet regional committees and district committees.
    Often, the current staff of Russian management structures exceeds the staff of similar Soviet bodies by 2 (two) times.
    But in beautiful reports, powerpoint slides, everything swells and ears.
    Officials simply publish any significant success, sometimes removing fatal breakthroughs. Then they send this bullshit upstairs.
    Rosstat completes this solid structure of the fraud vertical.
    Therefore, we live like this, collecting money for helmets, heat packs and plates.

    Of course, now is not the place and time (remember the shame of Brest-Litovsk, after the rebellion organized by Ulyanov-Blank, in 1917) to change anything.


    But later, when the flag of Russia is over Lviv, we will have to deal with reforms, otherwise our children will learn from birth not Russian, but English or Chinese.
    1. gsev
      gsev 17 September 2022 13: 56
      +4
      Quote: Comrade Kim
      Often, the current staff of Russian management structures exceeds the staff of similar Soviet bodies by 2 (two) times.

      The entire administration of the city of Lobny occupied one floor of a five-story building, the police had several apartments. Now this is a lot of multi-storey mansions throughout the city. Perhaps it would be more correct to say that after 1990 the administrative apparatus grew not by 2 times, but by 20 times.
  24. parusnik
    parusnik 17 September 2022 07: 30
    +8
    Here they are the Soviet galoshes that the president spoke about, carnations, peonies, etc. cheap and cheerful and in bouquets ... and nano-modern is single and expensive.
  25. kig
    kig 17 September 2022 07: 45
    +7
    All this had to be done BEFORE. Well, we got acquainted in kind with NATO equipment and technologies - so what? Who will give us time to wake up? Now, it seems, the main task of the NWO is to prevent the spread of the NWO to the territory of the Russian Federation.
  26. KCA
    KCA 17 September 2022 07: 48
    -1
    The Mosin rifle was generally developed under the tsarist regime and has not yet been withdrawn from service, and? And why all of a sudden all the flamethrower systems were developed in the USSR? But what about TOS-2? Forgot? Does the chassis under it also come from the USSR?
    1. User_neydobniu
      User_neydobniu 17 September 2022 07: 57
      +3
      The Mosin rifle was generally developed under the tsarist regime and has not yet been withdrawn from service, and?

      And judging by the SVO, it will continue to be supplied without sighting devices of the Russian Federation to volunteer battalions and armies of the DLNR ...
  27. sopot
    sopot 17 September 2022 07: 52
    +4
    [quote] [/ quote] "Today, on the territory of Ukraine, there is something that has been talked about so much and for which, in general, they have been preparing for several decades: a war with NATO."
    No, we weren't ready. Or Georgia-Syria or Armageddon-NATO. But Amageddon, it seems, was
    beyond the real, someone, in their simplicity, which is worse than theft, decided that small colonial wars, "personnel for money" - everything is ours. A war like the Ukrainian one requires a comprehensive preparation of the country: education, science, health care, industry and even culture, in the sense of the arts. That is, the country had to deal with. And since 1991, domestic policy has been theft, both legalized - like privatization, and that which is "not according to concepts", rat-keeping - among their own, beyond a generous measure. And war is a special kind of activity to which statesmen must - are obliged! - prepare from youth, "having cut off" the "urgent". See the experience of the state of Israel Then, maybe the president, being in the subject, will ask the fighter, “How do you like these boots, son? etc. And the children of the elite - see Prince Harry will serve, and the president will be treated in one of the hospitals of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, and not in one built for himself and those close to him. Unbelievable for modern Russia, right? The army is part of society and the army elite should be a full-fledged part of the country's elite, which, in my opinion, is not. The current elite are other people in uniform, but in civilian clothes. The result is obvious...
  28. fa2998
    fa2998 17 September 2022 07: 52
    +3
    Correct article! It’s strange that they didn’t write about the development of armored vehicles. They’ve already lost count of the “gotchas”, every year a new one. And of course, according to our tradition, in a single copy.
    On the "cardinal" rearmament they bang des. TRILLION RUB. Real new technology - in a single version. Count on the fingers. Where is the money Zin !!
    In the article, like new equipment, so the postscript is not put in a series of high prices. Do our workers in the military-industrial complex get more than over the hill? Or engineers? Or energy resources are more expensive than in Europe? wink request hi
    1. chetvertak
      chetvertak 17 September 2022 18: 55
      -2
      Maybe all the money went to the development of strategic nuclear forces, air defense, the submarine fleet, while others got the crumbs. And it turned out that the Navy and HELICOPTERS had been left without engines since 2014. And they decided to the ground forces that they didn’t solve anything in the war. The same Grachev and Gerasimov (NGSH) in 1993 said that two battalions would decide everything. One about the formidable other about the Baltic states! 30 passed , and everyone dreams of sweeping everyone away with two battalions.
  29. User_neydobniu
    User_neydobniu 17 September 2022 07: 55
    +2
    The conclusion, let's say, is not very beautiful. Despite numerous statements and demonstrations at exhibitions and forums, the Russian army is still a partially modernized Soviet army of the 80s of the last century.

    Well, I would say no longer the 80s, not the modernized T-62 and BMP-1 that participate in the SVO, this is not the level of the USSR army of the 80s, rather the beginning of the 70s
  30. Konnick
    Konnick 17 September 2022 07: 58
    +3
    At one time, the Yukos company, when forming its wagon fleet, began to purchase tank cars in Mariupol, since UralVagonZavod carried out a decorative modernization of the tank cars of the project of the Zhdanovsky (Mariupol) heavy engineering plant and, using its monopoly, rolled out the price tag twice as much.

    UVZ has never created tanks from scratch, only deep modernization. The same T-72 is a simplified T-64A with a Chelyabinsk engine. While the T-64A had a remote-controlled machine gun on the turret, UVZ removed this system. The unique automatic loader was left.
    In the 90s, etc. the technical policy of the enterprise began to include the "modernization" of old models, in order to increase the price tags for products, because its MO began to buy much less, or even not at all. Even the same Armata was "borrowed" from the developments of the Omsk plant, successfully liquidating its independence, like that of the Chelyabinsk plant.
  31. I am Peter
    I am Peter 17 September 2022 08: 00
    +4
    Therefore, ALL liberals and affective managers slander Stalin!
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2022 00: 18
      -1
      Quote: I am Peter
      Therefore, ALL liberals and affective managers slander Stalin!

  32. fa2998
    fa2998 17 September 2022 08: 00
    +2
    Quote: Comrade Kim
    But after, when the flag of Russia will be over Lviv, you will have to do reforms, otherwise

    Unfortunately, this system will not allow for peaceful reform. They are already doing well. Excellent!
    And she crushed (bought) the courts, the prosecutor's office, the police. hi
  33. Last centurion
    Last centurion 17 September 2022 08: 04
    +6
    What can we talk about, what modern technology, when there is no industry for the production of microelectronics, but 300 yards of people's (state) money is squeezed out. And on them it was possible to build it 10 years ago on a turnkey basis. Yes, maybe not everything would have been sold to us like those guys from the desert, but now nanometers would be considered at least not in hundreds, but in a couple of tens
  34. Konnick
    Konnick 17 September 2022 08: 18
    -1
    I will continue, UVZ has never had a normal tank design school.
    The modern T-90 M "Breakthrough" tank is the same T-72 only with a new welded turret, larger due to the size of the sighting system and other bells and whistles. The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the T-84 and Oplot, created on its basis.
    In Ukrainian tanks, the warheads of the day and night or thermal imaging sights are separated, while in ours they are combined. As a result, the resistance of devices to shelling is much higher for Ukrainian tanks, the thermal imaging sight of which is covered by an armored shield when they use simple optics that have small dimensions. Why did our designers put their eggs in one basket? Now our tanks cannot be used in combat against infantry, as they go blind for one or two, unlike the same T-62, in which the head of optical devices changes for one or two.
  35. Al manah
    Al manah 17 September 2022 08: 35
    +12
    All problems are due to irresponsibility. No one is afraid to be not only shot, but even put behind bars, now the worst punishment is excommunication from the trough. But after all, the trough will still have not one, but others, but about their development all there is no time to think, it is necessary to seize, until they push it away. Nothing will change, so everything will continue until the very nuclear war. And if it is not, then we are definitely kirdyk.
  36. Alexander of Alexandria
    Alexander of Alexandria 17 September 2022 08: 38
    -1
    What a one-sided assessment.
    1 has a bunch of new lightly armored vehicles.
    2 what is wrong with upgrading time-tested equipment? Why reinvent the wheel from scratch if there is a good base with proven reliability. Or in NATO every day, then a fundamentally new tank?
    3 what kind of Ukrainian equipment is this? The same tanks with Kalash, only yellow-Blakyt? And if we supply Ukraine with weapons and the truth is so kosher, then why did the Ukrainian warriors request Soviet-style equipment?
    4 drones, UAVs and other reconnaissance systems. Here, no doubt, lagged behind. On the other hand, if you can quickly buy cheap in China now, then it makes no sense to develop expensively and for a long time at home, especially since you need it yesterday.
    Subjectively, two things can be assumed:
    1 not all true goals are voiced
    2 is not a fact that the General Staff expected Ukraine to become a testing ground for weapons from around the world.
    Whether they improvise, or there is a clear plan - time and result will show. But I will be extremely offended for the state if, as a result, Donbass, Lugansk and Crimea go back to the Ukrainians. All the same, they plunged into the same Crimea how much dough. And that's taxpayers' money. We got involved, so we must press to the end. Let's retreat now - they will devour and not choke.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  37. Million
    Million 17 September 2022 09: 00
    +6
    With our education system, only managers and lawyers with economists remained.
    1. Double major
      Double major 17 September 2022 09: 27
      +8
      I talked here with one design bureau from the defense industry ... The men said bluntly - there is no one to recruit, their bachelors and masters are not good for anything ... The average age there is over 60 ...
      1. Lex_is
        Lex_is 17 September 2022 10: 21
        +4
        Specialists do not go to the design bureau from the defense, and those who come there immediately run away, unable to withstand the moronicity and stupidity.

        To declare to a top programmer that the main manual and papers and they collect programmers in the garbage heaps - this is a genius you need to be! Until now, they are looking for in the garbage dumps, stupid people. And that programmer, now with 350+, was lured by the Dutch to a top equipment manufacturing company.
        That's all you need to know about the geniuses of the military-industrial complex.
      2. Snail N9
        Snail N9 17 September 2022 10: 48
        +2
        Bullshit. What to recruit from "no one". The fact is that the people come really "raw" and they need to be taught. And no one wants to learn. So they say: "whoever is on ... b, let him teach." Why? Yes, because no one wants competitors around their necks. Everyone holds on to their jobs and salaries implying "processing" and "processing". It is necessary for the "old men" - to train a replacement for themselves and lose their salary and place? There are no more stupid people.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 17 September 2022 12: 17
      +2
      With our education system, only managers and lawyers with economists remained.
      This academic year, at our faculty of the Moscow Aviation Institute, they unexpectedly did not recruit full-time managers, and there was a competition for engineering specialties. A trifle, but nice. In 5 years there will be a result.
  38. Double major
    Double major 17 September 2022 09: 25
    +2
    I would like to believe that someone understands this, except for the readers of the site ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Igor Isakas
      Igor Isakas 17 September 2022 11: 14
      +2
      Not before "this". There is bankruptcy and privatization of the military-industrial complex.
  39. OLEG CZIGANOV
    OLEG CZIGANOV 17 September 2022 09: 39
    +11
    For what kind of parades we hold, tank biathlon, we build temples. Russia is a country of opportunities - missed opportunities, no, I didn’t put it correctly - plundered and mythical opportunities. The show goes on. All other words are obscene.
  40. Alex_56
    Alex_56 17 September 2022 09: 48
    0
    Fully agree with the author. Where is the entire defense industry concentrated? Rostec. And they only know how to sell factories for the construction of residential buildings, while stuffing their pockets.
    Previously, they steered the DESIGNER process. They were looking for design and technological solutions to emerging problems. OPK products were their brainchild, which did not let you sleep, they thought about them, Not about their pockets.
    Therefore, as long as the Constructors do not take the helm of the factories, there will be no sense.
    Look who heads the corporations included in Rostec? And immediately the questions disappear. DJs, traders, managers... Which of them, at least one, is a techie? They are specialists in how to ruin an enterprise, declare it unprofitable and sell it through auction. For example, the MIG corporation, the plant named after. Chernysheva, etc. ....
  41. Scientist_
    Scientist_ 17 September 2022 10: 07
    +5
    "Perspective: T-14 Armata". Armata has no prospects, this is a parade tank. Generals will never rely on a tank dependent on the West. Modern technology requires a modern engine (without it, it makes no sense to build new equipment). A modern engine requires modern oil. Modern oil requires an appropriate thickener, and it is produced only in the West. Checkmate Aromate. All of the above is true for other modern armored vehicles.
  42. Plumbum
    Plumbum 17 September 2022 10: 35
    -2
    The author seems to be asking the right questions, but the impression of the article is twofold. There is no mention of the SU-34, KA-52, S-400, Lobanov and Chuvakin sniper rifles, SVLK-14S "Dusk", armored vehicles "Tigr", "Typhoon" ... Not to mention the "Caliber" and "Daggers" , X-101, etc. Pumping up? In my opinion, the main task since the early 200s was to restore, first of all, the strategic nuclear triad, in particular, the closed cycle of missile production in Russia. This is the most important thing in terms of ensuring the country's global security. The author will not deny that a reserve has been created for hypersonic launchers, thanks to which, in principle, we can, without haste, and especially without fear of a global war, resolve the issue with Ukraine? Including by disposing of obsolete weapons and ammunition with which warehouses are clogged?
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 17 September 2022 10: 53
      +7
      There is no mention of the SU-34, KA-52, S-400, Lobanov and Chuvakin sniper rifles, SVLK-14S "Dusk", armored vehicles "Tigr", "Typhoon" ... Not to mention the "Caliber" and "Daggers" , X-101, etc.

      Excuse me, but since when are Caliber and S-400 not a Soviet development, simply modernized?
      And the Tigers and Lobaevsky, and other rifles, are by no means a new word in technology. And we can’t win the war with Daggers alone, we’ll be left without pants.
  43. Puz Big
    Puz Big 17 September 2022 10: 56
    +3
    The problem is not that no one wants to work, the problem is that the authorities at all levels do not care about what will happen tomorrow, the main thing is to report today.
  44. stankow
    stankow 17 September 2022 10: 58
    -14
    Burning anti-Russian propaganda. Under the guise of sort of concern about Russia. Enemies of Russia give a standing ovation, unmistakably recognizing all their manuals!
    1. User_neydobniu
      User_neydobniu 17 September 2022 11: 17
      0
      Oh, and here is the little thief startled, he stole all the money allocated for the defense industry, and now he yells like a victim
  45. Constantine
    Constantine 17 September 2022 11: 05
    0
    Alas. Sadly. And on the screen, everything sounds so bravura about new models of military equipment. Was this factor not one of the few fatal factors that led to a sad outcome in Izyum and people were left to fend for themselves. Is there really no experienced personnel left to develop new types of weapons? We from Pridnestrovie look at Russia with anxiety and hope. The way she implements NWO in Ukraine. And the success or defeat of Russia in the NMD depends on new types of weapons and equipment and experienced combat tactics.
  46. Lbvsushi
    Lbvsushi 17 September 2022 11: 05
    -4
    The article is a fire to match the author's name. I can roll this too. facts, figures, but before .. I’m talking about everything is gone, everyone sold everything, etc. The message is clear. Where the stream of consciousness and information comes from is not clear. We have never had a good time in Rossiyushka, but somehow we’re pissing ... little by little. Of course, some of the public asks the right questions, I don’t argue, but such haste with conclusions speaks of the bias or even the paidness of both the author and commentators, not excluding the trialbots, who just finally got divorced .... ✊
    1. Whowhy
      Whowhy 17 September 2022 11: 26
      0
      And how much do you get paid for it?
      The text of your comment is too short and in the opinion of the site administration does not carry useful information.
      lol
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 17 September 2022 12: 13
      +2
      The article is a fire to match the author's name.
      The author in this mode writes about everything - about technology, the army, aviation, etc. It's time to get used to it. But on this note, he is absolutely right.
  47. ivan2022
    ivan2022 17 September 2022 11: 08
    -2
    Quote: Puz Big
    The problem is not that no one wants to work, the problem is that the authorities at all levels do not care about what will happen tomorrow, the main thing is to report today.

    The problem is that what kind of people, he puts forward such chiefs for himself.

    But now the times are "fateful", it seems that in the future we will be like "ukrams" - the bosses will be sent. Free us from the work we can't handle.

    Because they never understood that nominating the most worthy to the authorities is the main duty of any nation.
  48. Igor Isakas
    Igor Isakas 17 September 2022 11: 12
    +4
    Everything is rotten among the oligarchs and kleptocrats: science, industry, the army. "Rotten values ​​give rise to rotten deeds and rotten consequences."
  49. Whowhy
    Whowhy 17 September 2022 11: 17
    +9
    The author, it seems, naively thinks that it is enough to pump the military-industrial complex with money. how will the rearmament begin ....
    In order to carry out real rearmament, it is first necessary to change a lot of things: the system of power, the Constitution, the system of climbing the social ladder, the system of personal responsibility at all levels, criminal and civil law, the organization of science, the education system, the system for distributing income from the sale of natural resources , public consciousness, finally, and bring all this into line. And only after that it will take 50-60 years of hard work to restore what this whole criminal gang has destroyed in 30 years. Who will give us this time?
    1. gsev
      gsev 17 September 2022 14: 11
      +5
      Quote: whowhy
      The author, it seems, naively thinks that it is enough to pump the military-industrial complex with money. how will the rearmament begin ....

      If the army is poorly armed, it will inevitably be defeated. If the industry does not have enough finance, it will not produce or design anything sensible. It's like in sports, how much money Putin did not invest in football, even before the success of the USSR in football in post-Soviet Russia they did not grow up (the semi-final of the World Cup). In addition, much depends on the structure of the attachment. Where more money is invested, the result is more tangible. For example, Rogozin lost outright to Musk the competition for a cheap carrier, but his "public-relationship" structure in Roskosmos was in no way inferior to the American one until Rogozin's resignation. Few people in Russia remember Rogozin's Angara, Korolev's "seven", Mask's falcons, but they still remember about space flights on trampolines. By the way, does anyone in Russia know who actually designed the Angara or developed the Sputnik vaccine
      1. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 18 September 2022 15: 39
        0
        how much money Putin did not invest in football

        it turns out ... Pension Reform!!!
  50. iouris
    iouris 17 September 2022 11: 28
    +5
    What's the panic? Manturov will promise everything. By 2035.