Military Review

How to knock out 76 tanks in one day? German champions on the Oder front

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How to knock out 76 tanks in one day? German champions on the Oder front

Combat activities and personal accounts of the German tank aces of World War II have always caused a lot of controversy. Among the German tank aces there were both lucky and experienced veterans who went through the entire war, and relatively young newcomers who got to the front at the very end of the war, but managed to surpass many of their more experienced colleagues in the number of enemy tanks destroyed in a relatively short period of time.


One of these young and early tank aces was the commander of a tank platoon of the 503rd SS heavy tank battalion (s.SS-Pz.Abt.503), SS Hauptscharführer Karl Körner, born April 19, 1920. On his combat account, there are, according to various sources, 101 or 102 destroyed Soviet tanks. Moreover, all his victories were achieved literally in the last month of the war. Serving in the SS troops since 1940, the future tank ace Karl Körner mainly served in various spare and training units of the Viking and Nordland divisions, until 1943.

Further, Kerner underwent retraining as a tanker and was enlisted in the new 103rd SS heavy tank battalion (s.SS-Pz.Abt.103). The battalion was formed in November 1943 and, in fact, was a training unit that trained SS tankers for service on heavy Tiger tanks. In this battalion, Koerner successfully served until September 1944, when the battalion changed its number to the 503rd and began to be equipped with King Tiger tanks.

And finally, in January 1945, Koerner, along with his battalion, was sent to the Soviet-German front as part of the Vistula Army Group. In February-March 1945, Koerner, who had no combat experience, as well as the experience of tank battles, was not reported in German front-line reports about the special successes.

Sudden success came to Koerner only in April 1945, when during the Soviet offensive on Berlin, “victories” rained down on him like a cornucopia, and on his 25th birthday he announced the destruction of 76 Soviet tanks at once in just one day.

The purpose of this article is an attempt to figure out whether these claims correspond to reality, or are they just someone's fantasies and attempts to wishful thinking.


Soviet self-propelled artillery ISU-152 and tanks are moving towards the front line

German version of events


According to confusing and fragmentary German data, mainly from the memoirs and memoirs of German tank veterans of the 503rd SS tank brigade, it is known that on April 18, 1945, all 11 combat-ready tanks of this battalion took up positions in the defense zone of units of the SS division "Nordland" at the Prötzel line — Bollersdorf. When repelling attacks by Soviet troops, the crews of the Royal Tigers on that day announced the destruction of 64 Soviet tanks, and, according to the memoirs of Lothar Tilby, the driver of one of the Royal Tigers, 11 tanks from this number were knocked out by the crew of one "Royal Tiger", which took up positions along the road from Bukov to Hasenholz.

The next day, April 19, one tank of the 503rd SS TTB, damaged the day before, was abandoned by personnel, and the crews of the 10 remaining tanks of the battalion stated that they disabled about 150 more Soviet armored vehicles during the day.

Here it is necessary to make a digression and explain that all these applications were made by tank commanders, were not subsequently checked by anyone, were not confirmed by any documents, but were widely disseminated for propaganda purposes. In fairness, it should be noted that in a tense combined-arms battle it is quite difficult and not always possible to keep an accurate count of the enemy tanks knocked out, and even more so to accurately determine who exactly knocked out this or that tank, since several tank or artillery can fire at one tank at once trunks.

During these battles, the commander of the Royal Tiger No. 314, SS Unterscharführer Georg Diers, stated that 13 Soviet tanks were destroyed east of Klosterdorf.

In positions between Grunov and Bollersdorf, a group of five "Royal Tigers" under the command of SS Obersturmführer Fritz Müller (Fritz Müller) destroyed about 30 Soviet tanks, 23 of which were listed on Müller's battle account. True, on the same day, not having time to enjoy the success and being outside the tank, Muller was hit by a volley of Soviet Katyushas and was killed.

After this group of tanks ran out of ammunition, it retreated to the rear to replenish ammunition, and it was replaced by a group of three more "King Tigers" under the command of a platoon commander of the 2nd company of SS Hauptscharführer Karl Körner. This group knocked out some more Soviet tanks.

Soon, around 17:00 Berlin time, in the area west of Bollersdorf, Kerner noticed a group of Soviet tanks replenishing with fuel and ammunition, identified by him as T-34-85 and IS-2, in the amount of 120-150 vehicles (that is, in terms of numbers - slightly shabby tank corps), of which the crews of three "Royal Tigers" of the Kerner group, having shot the last remaining shells, allegedly knocked out 64 tanks. 39 tanks were brought to Koerner's personal account (including 13 IS-2s), and 25 tanks to SS Hauptscharführer Harrer's account.

What the crew of the third "Royal Tiger" of the group did in this battle, which did not knock out a single tank, remains a mystery. Apparently, he covered the rear or gave all his shells to two comrades. It remains unclear where the rest of the Soviet tanks went and why they did not return fire. Probably, the Soviet tankers were too shocked by the events taking place.

Toward evening, the same three tanks from the Koerner group, with the support of another tank, the commander of which was the commander of the 3rd company of the 503rd SS SS Untersturmführer Oskar Schäfer, who had returned from the hospital, together destroyed about 30 more Soviet tanks, who, like lemmings, died by the hundreds, but, not paying attention to losses, stubbornly moved forward.

After sunset on the night of April 19-20, the attacks of numerous Soviet IS-2 tanks resumed, but many of them were hit in the night battle by the “King Tigers” of the 503rd SS TB, which were eventually forced to retreat to Strausberg. Apparently, the tired German tankers were no longer able to endure the massive attacks of the Soviet IS-2s.


Fragment of a map with the area of ​​operation of the "Royal Tigers" of the 503rd SS TTB

As a result, in just one day, spent on a new sector of the front, the newly-made tank ace Karl Körner reported on the destruction of 76 Soviet tanks and later, having increased his score already during street battles in Berlin, for the destruction of more than 100 Soviet tanks was awarded the much coveted Knight's cross. He received the award on April 29, 1945 in the Reich Chancellery from the hands of SS Brigadeführer Wilhelm Mohnke, along with two more tank officers of the 503rd SS TB, who were the battalion commander SS Sturmbannführer Fritz Herzig (Fritz Herzig) and the commander of the 3rd company of the battalion, SS Untersturmfuhrer Oskar Schafer.

Some fans of the epic feat of Kerner, as proof of his words, cite the loss figures of the 1st Belorussian Front for April 19, amounting to 105 burned out, 76 wrecked and 8 tanks and self-propelled guns lost for other reasons.

It can be answered that all the tanks of the 503rd SS TTB operated on the same sector of the front, fighting in a strip no more than 10 kilometers wide, where only tank and self-propelled units and formations of the 5th shock army and the 2nd guards tank army advanced , and not all of them. And besides which, the 1st BF included nine more armies and two cavalry corps, all with armored vehicles. Therefore, to record the losses of all the armies of the front on the actions of 10 German tanks would be rather stupid and presumptuous.


Tankers of the 503rd SS heavy tank battalion against the background of the "Royal Tiger" with victory rings on the barrel. In the center with a bandage on his head is another well-known ace of the battalion, the commander of the 1st company, Untersturmführer Karl Brommann

Disposition before the fight


Next, according to the archival documents of the armored units of the 1st Belorussian Front, we will consider how the events developed on April 19, how those tank units of the front acted that attacked in the defense zone of the 503rd TTB SS and for which April 19 was the day of the greatest losses in armored vehicles for the whole operation.

At that time, it was not customary to treat German tank units with disdain, but about the actions of German tankers, for example, in the report of the 369th Guards. tsap says the following:

“The enemy uses tanks skillfully in defense. At brick houses with a stone fence, ramps come off, in which the tank is completely hidden, well camouflaged and does not reveal itself until our tanks and self-propelled guns approach it at a distance of 400-700 meters. Enemy tanks, in most cases, operate in pairs and have reserve positions.


Fragment of a map showing the position of the Soviet and German units on the morning of April 18, 1945. It was on this sector of the front in the Prötzel-Bollersdorf area that the "Royal Tigers" of the 503rd SS TTB operated

So, in the area of ​​​​Prötzel - Predikov - Grunov - Bukov, where the described events took place, according to Soviet data, the 3rd defensive line of the enemy passed, consisting of two main trenches connected by communications, with machine-gun and mortar platforms. Behind the 2nd trench were machine-gun bunkers, and at mark 89,8 (southwest of the Grunov farm) tanks of the Tiger type and assault guns were installed in caponiers. Artillery 3rd lane was poorly saturated. The main nodes of the German defense were settlements, the approaches to which were covered by forest debris and numerous anti-tank positions and tanks and self-propelled guns dug into the ground.

According to the protocols of interrogation of captured soldiers of the SS division "Nordland", by the evening of April 18, the SS regiment "Norway" (SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt.23 Norge) took up defense south of Ilov, and the SS regiment "Denmark" (SS-Pz.Gren. Rgt.23 Danmarck) - to the north. The tank battalion of the Nordland division (SS-Pz.Abt.11 Hermann von Salza) was located in the Klosterdorf area.

As of April 17, according to German data, the SS Nordland division had 2 Panther tanks, 23 Stug 40 Ausf.G assault guns and 10 new Pz.IV / 70 (V) tank destroyers that arrived in early April, but it is not known , how many of these armored vehicles, experiencing a lack of fuel, could take part in the battles on April 19.

By the way, the last two Ausf.D Panthers miraculously remaining in the division (former vehicles of the 1st SS TD, then transferred to the Oranienbaum tank battalion) of the very first issues went through a rather long combat path, which began at the end of 1943, when they arrived near Leningrad . Interestingly, according to the intelligence report of the 5th UA:

“The 11th tank battalion of the SS division Nordland was armed with 55-60 T-4 tanks, half of which were of the T-5 and T-6 types. In addition, the division has 10 self-propelled guns.

Also, the 18th Panzergrenadier Division (18.Pz.Gren.Div.) was deployed to this sector, the tank battalion (Pz.Abt.118) of which on April 16 consisted of 27 Pz.IV Ausf.J tanks and 8 tank destroyers Pz. IV / 70 (V), and the anti-tank battalion (former Pz.Jg. Abt. Schlesien) - 19 Jagdpanzer 38 (t) self-propelled guns, better known as the Hetzer.

On this sector of the front, the Soviet units of the 5th shock and 8th guards armies were advancing, reinforced by tank units, respectively, of the 2nd and 1st guards tank armies. The main enemy for the German tankers were units of the 5th UA and 2nd Guards. TA, whose offensive line passed through the area we needed, and most of the formations of the 8th Guards. And the 1st Guards. The TA were advancing much further south, only part of the forces of the 11th Panzer Corps acting at the junction of the armies on the Vulkov-Bukov line.


Fragment of the map of the 1st Guards Tank Army. The formations of the army operated south of the Vulkov-Bukov line, in the direction of Müncheberg, and could not meet with the tanks of the 503rd TTB SS

From the buildings of the 1st Guards. TA, theoretically, only a part of the units of the 503th TC, which had reached the Grunov area by that time, could theoretically meet in battle with the “Royal Tigers” of the 19rd SS TB not earlier than the evening of April 11th.

From the morning of January 11, units of the 18th Tank Corps continued to advance from the Vulkov-Alt-Rosenthal line in the general direction to Bukov, occupied Trebnitz and Hermersdorf, but by the evening they met stubborn enemy resistance at the Münchehof-Obersdorf line. All day on April 19, parts of the corps tried to develop the offensive and by the evening fought on the Münhehof-Damsdorf line, but had no success. After that, it was decided to bypass the main resistance node - Bukov, from the north and south, having the main grouping of corps forces in the north.

Turning to the north and through Reichenberg and Ilov, by the end of the day the right group (65th brigade, 50th guards. ttp, 1461st and 1493rd sap, 12th msbr, 243rd mp, 1071st paws , division of the 79th Guards Rep, two batteries of the 1388th zenap) went to the area of ​​the Grunov farm, and the left group (20th and 36th brigade, two batteries of the 1388th zenap) went to the western outskirts of Müncheberg. This maneuver of units of the 11th Tank Corps forced the enemy to leave Bukov and retreat to the west. On April 19, units of the 11th Tank Corps lost 8 T-34 tanks burnt out and 5 wrecked, and the 65th Tank Brigade lost only one T-34 burned out and one knocked out. In the 50th Guards. TTP, 1461st and 1493rd Sap there were no losses at all that day.


Scheme of actions of units of the 11th tank corps of the 1st guards. TA. The corps was the only army formation, parts of which could meet with the tanks of the 19rd SS TTB near Grunov on April 503

Parts of another tank corps of the 1st Guards. TA - 11th Guards. shopping malls during April 18 and 19 acted to the south, in the Jansfelde-Müncheberg area, and parts of the 8th Guards. MK fought east of Müncheberg, in the Friedersdorf-Marksdorf area, and they could not meet with the tanks of the 503rd SS TTB, even theoretically.

Operating in the same lane with the 1st Guards. TA tank and self-propelled units of the 8th Guards. And they also acted either much to the south of the area we needed, or were in the second echelon, or remained in reserve, and their losses with the actions of the crews of the "Royal Tigers" of the 503rd SS TB were in no way connected.

April 19, 1945: actions of units of the 2nd Guards Tank Army


Of the three buildings of the 2nd Guards. Only two corps could meet with the "Royal Tigers" of the 503rd SS TBM: the 1st Mechanized Corps and the 12th Guards Tank Corps, while the 9th Guards Tank Corps operated a little to the north, and on April 19 its losses amounted to only 9 T-34 tanks burnt out and 3 damaged.

April 19 connections of the 2nd Guards. TA continued their advance in a westerly direction, and by 21:00 pm in the area of ​​interest to us, the 19th brigade and 219th brigade of the 1st MK were operating, by 19:30 they occupied Prötzel, and units of the 12th Guards. shopping mall, from 21:00 trying, together with the infantry of the 26th sk, to advance from the Grunov area in the direction of Klosterdorf.

In the Prötzel area and in the nearby forest, according to Soviet data, units of the 309th Infantry Division were defending themselves, reinforced by a large number of artillery, with up to 10 tanks and self-propelled guns. According to German data, on April 15, the 309th Berlin infantry division had 9 StuG 40 Ausf.G assault guns and 11 Hetzers.


M4A2 tanks of the 1st mechanized corps

Parts of the 1st MK, waging night battles, by the morning of April 19 broke the enemy’s resistance and, having occupied Batslov and Ilov, continued their offensive. The 219th brigade operated in the direction of Predikov, the 19th brigade - in the direction of Prötzel, and the 35th and 37th brigade, which were heading, went north, to the Reichenov-Sternebek area. In the same direction, even further north, units of the 9th Guards. mk.

The 219th brigade, in cooperation with the 19th brigade, by the end of April 18, fought through the settlements of Vulkov and Hermersdorf, losing 7 M4A2 tanks knocked out in a day.

On April 19, the 19th MBR, overcoming the resistance of small groups of submachine gunners and enemy Faustniks, occupied Reichenov, the Herzhorn farm and by 15:00 reached the line 1 kilometer northwest of Prötzel.

In the Herzhorn area, the tankers of the 9th tank regiment of the brigade suddenly jumped out onto an enemy artillery column and crushed 7 guns during a fleeting battle. The attempts made to break into Prötzel and Predikov on the move did not bring success. During the day, the brigade lost 1 M4A2 tank burned out and another 2 knocked out.

By 15:30 on April 19, the 219th brigade reached the Predikov area, where, according to intelligence data, up to two infantry companies with several anti-tank guns and 2 self-propelled guns were defending. By a roundabout maneuver, the enemy was knocked out of the Predikov, and by 16:00 the 219th brigade approached Prötzel, which the 19th brigade failed to occupy, and to the forest area located to the west.

Pretzel stubbornly defended with up to an infantry battalion, supported by two batteries of field artillery and one anti-aircraft battery. By evening, the enemy was partially knocked down from the occupied line, and the 219th brigade bypassed Prötzel, losing 3 M4A2 tanks knocked out in a day. By 19:30, as a result of joint actions of the 19th MBR and the 219th Brigade of the 1st Mk and the 49th Guards. brigade of the 12th guards. since the settlement of Prötzel was cleared of the enemy.

In the Prötzel area, after fighting with units of the 19th MBR and 219th Brigade, the last two Panthers of the SS Nordland division were lost, possibly damaged in battle or abandoned due to lack of fuel. Tankers of the 219th brigade announced the destruction of two "Tigers" (3 "Panthers" appear in another report) and three self-propelled guns in the Prötzel and Predikov area.

Two self-propelled artillery regiments of the 1st MK: the 75th and 1822nd saps, operated jointly with the 35th and 37th battalions north of the area of ​​operation of the tanks of the 503rd SS ttb and could not cross with them, and the 347th guards On April 19, the tsap was in the reserve of the corps and went in the second echelon through Reichenberg and Ilov, reaching the Herzhorn farm by 18:00. The regiment did not fight that day, and during the entire operation it lost only 2 ISU-122 burnt out and 2 wrecked. In total, according to the operational report of the headquarters of the 1st MK, 7 M4A2 tanks and 2 SU-76 self-propelled guns were lost per day by parts of the corps.


Scheme with the actions of the 19th mechanized brigade of the 1st mechanized corps for April 18 and 19, 1945

Parts of the 12th Guards. shopping malls were supposed to advance through Ilov from the line east of Reichenberg and occupy Grunov. According to the headquarters of the corps, at 17:00 on April 19, units of the 34th Guards. MSBR and 48th Guards. The brigade was occupied by Grunov, defended by a battalion of enemy infantry with the support of tanks and a large number of anti-tank guns.

According to the report of the 48th Guards. brigade, the brigade was forced to storm Grunov on its own, without infantry and artillery support. As a result, the settlement was occupied, but the brigade suffered heavy losses. And the 66th Guards. The brigade, which was supposed to attack the Grunov from the southeast, did not take part in the battle and did not provide assistance in the assault.

Further advancement of the 48th Guards. The brigade was suspended due to strong enemy anti-tank fire, which was fired from a forest area located west of Grunov, the approaches to which were covered with forest debris. Therefore, the 48th Guards. The brigade temporarily went on the defensive on the western outskirts of Grunov. The losses of the brigade on April 19 amounted to 17 T-34 tanks burned out and 2 knocked out, while the destruction of one Tiger tank and three 75-mm anti-tank guns was announced.


Tanks T-34-85 of one of the brigades of the 12th Guards Tank Corps in the spring of 1945

49th Guards. brigade with SU-100 self-propelled guns of the 393rd Guards attached to it. sap, developing an offensive in a western direction, by 20:00 on the evening of April 18, after a two-hour battle, occupied Reichenberg and, continuing to move, broke into Ilov on the move, where they fought with enemy tanks and artillery throughout the night. Only by 8:30 am on April 19, the units of the brigade occupied Ilov and, continuing the offensive, reached the eastern outskirts of Predikov, where the enemy stubbornly defended every house, delivering heavy fire from tanks and artillery.

After a heavy seven-hour battle, having no infantry support and suffering losses, the brigade nevertheless knocked out the enemy, and by 17:00 the village of Predikov was occupied. Moving on, the 49th Guards. By 22:00, the brigade went to Prötzel, turned by the enemy into a powerful center of resistance, and, having taken up defensive positions, conducted reconnaissance of bypass routes all night. During the fighting on April 19, the brigade lost 4 tanks burnt out and 16 knocked out, declaring 4 destroyed German tanks and 21 guns. The next morning, the brigade fought its way into Klosterdorf, destroying eight 88-mm anti-aircraft guns without loss.

April 18 66th Guards. brigade together with IS-2 of the 79th Guards. ottp fought along the route Vulkov - Hermersdorf - Reichenberg and by 14:00 on April 19 was fighting in the forest, north of the mark 129,8 and the city of dv. Pritzhagen. By evening, the brigade, according to its report, approached Grunov, where it met the strongest resistance and by 20:00, together with other parts of the corps, occupied this settlement, although in the report of the 48th Guards. TBR clearly states that the tanks of the 66th Guards. brigade did not take part in the assault on Grunov. In two days on April 18 and 19, the brigade lost 8 T-34s burned out and 10 knocked out.

Total brigade of the 12th Guards. TK lost 19 T-57-34 tanks on April 85 (28 burned out and 29 wrecked), which was the largest loss of tanks on this sector of the front.

Theoretically, at least some of these tanks, which were put out of action in the battles in the Grunov area, could well have been victims of the fire of the “King Tigers” of the 503rd SS TTB, which operated in this area.

By the way, on April 19 there was a case of a false report by the commander of the 26th Guards. sk of Major General Firsov to the commander of the 5th UA, Lieutenant General Berzarin. In the report on the advance of the corps troops, it was reported that the Grunov settlement was occupied, and units of the 26th Guards. sk advanced two kilometers to the west, when in fact it was not so, for which Major General Firsov received a scolding.

April 19, 1945: the actions of the tank units of the 5th shock army



Scheme of actions of the tank regiments of the 67th Guards. ottbr April 19, 1945

During the fighting on April 18, units of the 5th UA reached the line of the Batslov-Reichenberg highway, where they met organized and stubborn resistance from the enemy.

Heavy tanks IS-2 of three regiments (110th, 111th and 112th) of the 67th Guards. During the offensive, the Otbr brigade acted together with ISU-152 self-propelled guns of the 396th Guards. tsap, which were assigned to the regiments of the brigade by battery, with T-34 minesweepers of the 92nd separate tank engineer regiment and infantry of the 286th guards. joint venture of the 94th guards. sd and 1010th joint venture of the 266th sd, which was planted on armored vehicles as a landing force. 67th Guards. Ottbr, which was the vanguard of the 26th Guards. sk, by 18:00 on April 18, she reached the edge of the forest east of Rigenwalde, where she met strong fire resistance. By decision of the brigade commander, infantry was landed on the IS-2 tanks as a landing force, and at 23:00 the brigade attacked the enemy.

During the night battle, the enemy withdrew from Rigenwalde to Reichenberg and, continuing the pursuit, the IS-2 tanks of the brigade attacked Reichenberg from the move. By 5:00 am on April 19, the settlement was taken by our troops, and the Germans withdrew to Ilov. Attack from the flanks by 9:00 am Ilov was taken, and by 13:00 67th Guards. ottbr went to the area east of Predikov. According to reconnaissance, Predikov was turned into a large center of resistance, tanks and self-propelled guns were dug in on its eastern outskirts, and the left flank was covered by anti-tank artillery fire from a grove located northeast of Predikov.

Within three hours, the IS-2 brigades attacked Predikov three times, but to no avail. Then an order was received to bypass through Grunov and Klosterdorf, followed by exit to the previous route. With a sudden blow, the brigade occupied Grunov at 18:30 and reached its western outskirts. On the edge of the forest and on the heights west of Grunov, the enemy concentrated a large number of anti-tank guns and buried tanks. Two attacks undertaken by the brigade did not bring success, and the brigade commander decided to retreat to his original position and regroup.

At 20:00, heavy tanks IS-2 of the brigade again attacked the enemy positions, but as a result of a tense battle that lasted until the very night, the brigade suffered heavy losses without achieving tangible success.

In the brigade's operational reports, counterattacks by German heavy tanks were noted, operating in groups of up to 6 units (most likely, these were the "Royal Tigers" of the 503rd SS TB). In the reports of the 94th Guards. On the evening of April 19, an enemy counterattack was also noted from the forest area west of Grunov, carried out by the forces of an infantry battalion with the support of 5 tanks and 2 armored personnel carriers, which was repulsed by artillery and mortar fire.

Only at 9:00 am on April 20, after a powerful artillery treatment of enemy positions by our artillery, the 67th Guards. The Otbr brigade was able to break through the enemy defenses in the area of ​​the highway intersection 300 meters west of Grunov and occupy Klosterdorf, forcing the enemy to retreat in the direction of Strausberg. So, according to intelligence of the 94th Guards. sd, at 7:00 am on April 20, the enemy, having put his infantry on vehicles and having fired at the positions of our units from artillery and mortars, hastily withdrew in a westerly direction.

On the morning of April 18, in the ranks of the 67th Guards. The detachment had 50 IS-2 tanks, another 11 tanks were under repair, and 4 by this time had been written off as irretrievable losses. By 17:00 on April 19, the brigade's losses amounted to 4 IS-2 burned out and 3 knocked out.

During the night battles from 19 to 20 April, the brigade lost another 12 IS-2 burned out and 5 damaged, and only 24 combat-ready IS remained in service. Tankers of the 67th Guards. On April 19, 3 Ferdinands and 4 Tigers were declared destroyed.

It is possible that some of the destroyed IS-2 brigades were the result of the work of the "King Tiger" G. Dirs, who announced the withdrawal of 13 Soviet tanks east of Klosterdorf.

In units operating in conjunction with the 67th Guards. ottbr, the losses for April 19 were insignificant. 396th Guards. The tsap lost only 1 ISU-152 that burned down, and the 92nd ITP had no losses at all.


Tank IS-2 of the 110th Guards Heavy Tank Regiment of the 67th Guards. otbr

Three tank regiments of the 11th Guards. Ottbr, having a total of 48 IS-2 tanks, reached the next line by 16:00 on April 19: the 90th Guards. TTP crossed the highway two kilometers west of Grunov. 91st Guards. TTP was in the area 2,5 km south of Grunov, and the 92nd Guards. TTP passed Pritzhagen. Over the past day, the loss of the brigade amounted to only 3 IS-2 burnt out.

The 1504th sap, equipped with SU-76 self-propelled guns, was in the second echelon on April 19 and moved in the direction between the Grunov-Bukov points near Bollersdorf, did not fight that day and had no losses.

Separate self-propelled artillery battalions of the rifle divisions of the 5th UA also did not suffer any massive losses on April 18–19. On the evening of April 18 in the divisions of the 9th, 32nd and 26th Guards. ck there were a total of 100 self-propelled guns SU-76. On the evening of April 20, this number dipped by only 5 SU-76s, three of which were damaged by artillery fire and mines on April 16–17.

On the night of April 17-18, the 220th separate tank brigade occupied Vulkov, where it entrenched itself. At that time, 220 T-14-34 tanks and 85 ISU-14 self-propelled guns remained in service in the 122th brigade. On April 18, at 10:00 am, the brigade, together with units of the 301st Rifle Division (mainly from the 1052nd Rifle Division), set out in the direction of Hermersdorf, which, after a two-hour battle, was occupied by 14:00. During the battle, one T-34 tank was hit by artillery fire, and for the evening the brigade had 16 T-34s and 15 ISU-122s in service (several vehicles were out of repair).

On April 18, the brigade, in cooperation with units of the 301st SD, continued the offensive, being subjected to strong opposition from the master's court Bollersdorf and from a height of 77,0 in the Bukov area. By 17:00 on April 18, the 220th brigade was suspended at the turn of the stream in the area of ​​\u11b\u00bthe mill, east of Bukov. Tanks and self-propelled guns of the brigade provided fire from the spot to our infantry, who crossed the stream and began the construction of the bridge. By 19:220 on April XNUMX, the construction of the bridge was completed, and the XNUMXth brigade continued its offensive through the forest to Bukov.

During April 19, one ISU-122 was shot down in the brigade, and by the evening there were 17 T-34s and 16 ISU-122s in service. By 21:30, the enemy was driven out of Bukovo, and the 220th brigade entrenched itself on its northern outskirts, replenishing ammunition and fuel without any excesses.

The next day, the 220th brigade continued its offensive from early morning and in the battles for Bollersdorf and Hasenholz suffered heavy losses from anti-tank fire, anti-aircraft guns and enemy tanks, due to which all the remaining combat-ready materiel (8 T-34 and 16 ISU-122 ) was consolidated into one battalion. The losses of the brigade on April 20 amounted to 10 T-34s and 3 ISU-122s: 2 T-34s burned down from the fire of German tanks and artillery, 6 T-34s and 1 ISU-122 were hit, blown up by mines and damaged by artillery fire - another 2 T- 34 and 2 ISU-122.

There are several questions here. Perhaps it was this episode that was described in German memoirs, when one “Royal Tiger” of the 503rd SS TTB near the Bukov-Hazenholz road knocked out 11 Soviet tanks, however, in German memoirs, the battle dates from April 18, but confusion in dates and places or confusion events of different days into one battle - for memoirs, a common thing.

And isn’t it these 17 tanks and 16 self-propelled guns refueling on the outskirts of Bukovo that the 220th brigade could see Kerner, who estimated their number as more than 100 units of T-34 and IS-2 (the eyes of fear are big) and confused the ISU-122 with the IS- 2? Bukov is located near Bollersdorf, at a distance of about a kilometer, and confusion in determining the types of enemy armored vehicles occurred throughout the war, and this should not be given much importance.

If this is so, and Koerner did not invent the Soviet tanks he saw refueling, then it is possible that this was the equipment of the 220th brigade, with which he prudently did not get involved.

In this case, it is possible that the desire to receive the cherished Knight's Cross overpowered and, knowing that the command was far away and no one would (and could not) check his applications, he decided not to miss his chance and cheerfully reported on the destruction of six dozen Soviet tanks, generously pouring 25 frags to his partner. Well, or there was still a battle with the same 220th brigade (for example, a real battle on the morning of April 20), but it didn’t go at all the way the “sons of the Nibelungs” described it, and the Soviet losses amounted to only 13 T-34 units and ISU-122, really lost in this battle.

Сonclusion


Summing up all of the above, we can state that on April 19, 1945, in the area of ​​\u503b\u80boperation of the "Royal Tigers" of the 12rd SS TB, Soviet armored units actually lost no more than XNUMX tanks and self-propelled guns in a day (burnt and knocked out), and suffered the greatest losses tank brigades of the XNUMXth Guards. mk.

Losses of Soviet units for April 19, 1945:

220th brigade: 1 SU-122 was hit,
11th Guards. otbr: burned 3 IS-2,
67th Guards. otbr: 4 burnt down, 3 IS-2s shot down,
396th Guards. tsap: 1 ISU-152 was hit,
65th brigade of the 11th tk: burned down 1, shot down 1 T-34-85,
12th Guards shopping mall: 29 burned down, 28 T-34-85 shot down,
219th brigade of the 1st MK: 3 M4A2s were shot down,
19th MBR of the 1st MK: 1 was burned down, 2 M4A2s were shot down.


At the same time, it must be understood that not all of this armored vehicles were lost solely from the fire of only 10 "Royal Tigers", since parts of several German divisions also operated on this sector of the front, which also had tanks and self-propelled guns, which, along with artillery and other means defeats actively fought and, as far as possible, knocked out Soviet tanks.

So it would be too optimistic to believe in the result declared by the SS tankmen - about 150 Soviet tanks allegedly destroyed in one day.

Well, specifically: the result declared by Karl Koerner should be greatly reduced to just a few tanks, which in reality he could well knock out on April 19, 1945.
Author:
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 14 September 2022 05: 52
    +8
    all these applications were made by tank commanders, they were not checked by anyone in the future
    So you can "knock out" not dozens, but hundreds of tanks! stop
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      14 September 2022 06: 31
      +12
      The fact is that such claims by tankers or gunners, in contrast to the claims of pilots, are in most cases very difficult to confirm. In a battle involving dozens of tanks, artillery, etc., it is often impossible to understand exactly who knocked out whom. Especially when the battle is going on at long distances and it’s generally difficult to understand what you are firing at through the scope. All this was aggravated by the situation at the front, when the retreating side, in principle, does not have the ability to somehow accurately calculate the loss of enemy equipment - only according to reports from tank commanders, gun crews, and so on. Well, for propaganda and raising morale, loud victories are needed. That is why such big requests happened in the German army in 1945 or during our retreat in 1941, the same Kolobanov, Lavrinenko, etc.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 14 September 2022 08: 09
        +6
        I don’t have any special questions for Lavrinenko, because he fought in conditions when he was on a good survivable tank, and against him there were a lot of enemies of a lower level, or even just targets. And a high shot is quite likely. German accounts also begin to grow only when the Germans have a "tiger" (on the "panther" there is only 1 tankoas EMNIP, on the Pz-IV and STuG-III, it seems, none at all), and ours have a large advantage in tanks. Well, separate heavy tank battalions were used in counterattacks, or were put up on the defensive, which means that their crews survived much better than those in the Pz-IV or "Panther" on the Soviet defense, or took a hit in the STuG-III at the forefront . Well, the best tankers from these vehicles, like the same Wittmann, who started on the "shtug", logically fell just on the "tigers".
        1. Konnick
          Konnick 14 September 2022 08: 46
          +1
          I don’t have any special questions for Lavrinenko, because he fought in conditions when he was on a good survivable tank, and against him there were a lot of enemies of a lower level, or even just targets. And a high shot is quite likely.

          Lavrinenko changed the tactics of using the T-34. He began to use the terrain and rapid approach to the enemy for shooting from a short distance.
        2. Dmitry_Likhoded
          14 September 2022 10: 24
          +2
          Lavrinenko's victories do not converge even according to Soviet documents. There were attempts to analyze some episodes with his victories, somewhere it converges, somewhere it doesn’t. The Germans met tank aces starting in 1941, but many of them died without becoming famous. At least, I saw quite a lot of photos of Pz.III tanks and all sorts of "Marders" with 10-15 rings on their trunks in 1941-42. There are many well-known aces who fought on the Stugs, as well as on the Pz-IV and Panthers. And not the best crews were put on the "Tigers", this is a delusion. When forming a tiger battalion, a tank battalion with personnel with combat experience was usually taken and diluted with newcomers who also went to replenishment.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 14 September 2022 15: 31
            0
            And with Hartmann, they converge by 30-50%. Or do we believe that the Wittmanns and other Knippels with Caries exactly match the Soviet data?
            1. Dmitry_Likhoded
              15 September 2022 14: 46
              0
              If you take the memoirs or applications of any tank ace, any army and check its result, then 100% it turns out that the result is too high, often for quite objective reasons.
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 14 September 2022 18: 20
            +3
            Did many Teutonic Aces-tankers truthfully indicate the type of tanks destroyed?
            Wittmann on his Stug filled the "horde" of KV-2. But in reality they turned out to be T-26!
            And the T-60 is unlikely to be recorded by anyone. Quite T-34, KV-1 and IS-2!
            1. Dmitry_Likhoded
              15 September 2022 14: 49
              0
              Was it different in the Soviet Union? The same is true of the Tigers and Ferdinands. Many of our tank aces said Pz.II, which were at the front in commercial quantities until 1943, or the same lightly armored Marders?
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 15 September 2022 15: 44
                +3
                Soviet tankers knew little about the types of enemy armored units.
                And, it seems to me, they simply wrote - a heavy tank was hit, a medium tank or a light tank was hit.
                A turretless tank (ShtuG) was hit!
                "Tigers", "Panthers" and "Elephants" appeared after the Kursk Bulge!
                Few people have seen and considered them - something unfamiliar is crawling, which means it is the "Tiger" or the rest of the "menagerie".
                In each case, a study of archival papers is required. When available!
                1. Dmitry_Likhoded
                  15 September 2022 16: 09
                  +1
                  Well, the Germans did the same. They knocked out a tank in the first half of the war - that means the T-34 or KV, then the IS-2 began to appear everywhere. No one really bothered with the exact identification of the type of tank.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 15 September 2022 16: 50
                    0
                    Do you see the difference in spelling?
                    Medium, light or accurate statement - T-34, KV.
                    Did the Germans notice the T-26s they knew in Spain at all?
                    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
                      16 September 2022 18: 03
                      0
                      I see the difference, but in reality, often no one tried to figure out which tanks were hit.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 16 September 2022 20: 09
                        0
                        NOBODY in the world or no one in Germany and the USSR?
        3. Kim
          Kim 15 September 2022 07: 51
          +3
          something similar to the German pilots
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 14 September 2022 11: 07
        +14
        In general, I am inclined to think that the appearance in the media of great aces warriors, laying single-handed enemies in piles, is a sign that things are bad at the front. And the worse things are, the more effectively and effectively the miraculous heroes "act".
        How their cases are real needs to be understood in each case.
        When 500 Russian tanks (or planes) are fighting against 100 German ones, the Russians have more chances of victory, and the Germans have more chances to quickly increase the personal score of one or two of the luckiest fighters or crews. Further, the media enter their own coefficient from three (in the case of difficult, but generally successful for their own battles) to twenty (in cases of complete defeat of their forces) and a terminator hero is obtained.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 15 September 2022 00: 22
          +4
          Media of the great ace warriors laying single-handed enemies in piles


          A striking example is the "ghost of Kyiv".
  2. antivirus
    antivirus 14 September 2022 06: 06
    -3
    It was worth looking into it in such detail.
    It was rightly said in political classes then: our cause is just, the enemy will be defeated.
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 14 September 2022 11: 21
      +2
      You are right.
      In Europe, and especially in Germany, they are trying to * outplay * WWII. At least *on points*. I met something anecdotal: * since the first part of WWII was successful, up to STALINGRAD, then this all counts, the rest needs to be revised *.
      Remember the publications, sort of like the Germans about * the victory at the KURSK DUGA *? And so, or something like that, they try to *count the points* and implicitly rub in the *incorrectness of the loss*, or even more radical - *we didn’t want to, because we were already against Hitler*.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 14 September 2022 07: 42
    +15
    "What are they, a basurman, feel sorry for, write more!" If you look like that, it turns out that literally a few dozen German aces, tankers, pilots, almost destroyed all the tank troops and the USSR Air Force. smile
    1. Vinnibuh
      Vinnibuh 17 September 2022 05: 36
      +2
      There is no need to go far here, according to press releases, we have destroyed several hundreds of hundreds of times. Unfortunately, winning reports are always in the "trend".
  4. Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 14 September 2022 07: 57
    +6
    And as soon as we had enough equipment to take Berlin? With such "aces" it was all destroyed on the approaches, single-handedly click two battalions of tanks in a day! Well, tryndet not tossing bags, although it is necessary to say differently, but I'm afraid to be banned laughing
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 14 September 2022 10: 14
      0
      Quote: Alex 1970
      And as soon as we had enough equipment to take Berlin? With such "aces" it was all destroyed on the approaches, single-handedly click two battalions of tanks in a day! Well, tryndet not tossing bags, although it is necessary to say differently, but I'm afraid to be banned laughing

      And you look how many tanks the USSR produced and lost and how many Germany
      1. Alex 1970
        Alex 1970 14 September 2022 10: 30
        +2
        That is, filled with meat?
      2. Usher
        Usher 14 September 2022 19: 10
        0
        About the same.
        1. Boris1812
          Boris1812 15 September 2022 00: 02
          -3
          Ours have lost more than 2 times more than the Germans have released since 1935
          1. Usher
            Usher 15 September 2022 11: 41
            +2
            That is, twice, is it your meat filled up? Strange logic)) you have 67 thousand lost by Germany and 83 thousand is twice as much? Even weirder logic
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 15 September 2022 12: 44
              -2
              Quote: Usher
              That is, twice, is it your meat filled up? Strange logic)) you have 67 thousand lost by Germany and 83 thousand is twice as much? Even weirder logic

              Germany could not lose 67 thousand tanks, since it released only 48 thousand. The rest is armored personnel carriers
              1. spech
                spech 25 September 2022 13: 07
                0
                Germany could not lose 67 thousand tanks, since it released only 48 thousand. The rest is armored personnel carriers

                Let's not count the trophy?
      3. Oleg812spb
        Oleg812spb 15 September 2022 15: 16
        +1
        There is a simple counter-argument to this argument, which has become a classic, in terms of the number of tanks produced - And how many tanks are left after the end of hostilities? How many of them were distributed around the world, converted in the post-war years for the needs of the national economy, and, finally, put up as monuments?
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 15 September 2022 18: 18
          0
          Quote: Oleg812spb
          There is a simple counter-argument to this argument, which has become a classic, in terms of the number of tanks produced - And how many tanks are left after the end of hostilities? How many of them were distributed around the world, converted in the post-war years for the needs of the national economy, and, finally, put up as monuments?

          What tanks are you talking about, Soviet or German? The German ones were sent for metal, the Soviet ones too, because they began to rivet new ones, t-55. Or do you want to dispute the number of tanks produced in the USSR?
          1. Oleg812spb
            Oleg812spb 17 September 2022 21: 58
            0
            Logically strange question. Are you distorting?
    2. Netomsky
      Netomsky 15 September 2022 02: 50
      +1
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      single-handedly click two battalions of tanks in a day!

      76 tanks is more than a brigade of three tank regiments. There were 21 tanks in a regiment and 65 tanks in a brigade. Well, if we consider that during the offensive, tank units had about half of their regular strength due to losses, then the storyteller alone destroyed as many as 6 tank regiments! wassat
  5. EvilLion
    EvilLion 14 September 2022 08: 01
    +8
    How can you knock out 76 tanks in a battle when there are only 30 of them in battle, and 1 of them is your own, and 14 are allies? wassat
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 14 September 2022 08: 46
      +9
      How can you knock out 76 tanks in a battle when there are only 30 of them in battle, and 1 of them is your own, and 14 are allies?
      If you hit one wrecked tank 100 times, then you can write more for yourself.
      1. Rustic
        Rustic 20 September 2022 00: 18
        0
        If you hit one wrecked tank 100 times, then you can write more for yourself.
        But there are so many shells to even hit one hundred times? Or is most of the hits a fart down the barrel? Yes, even for this you need a decent supply of peas.
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 14 September 2022 09: 41
      0
      Excuse me, but what did you mean "1 of your own, and 14 allies?" What kind of allies?
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 14 September 2022 09: 46
        +2
        Like what? Yellow, and even red, merging after 2 minutes.
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 14 September 2022 09: 56
          +1
          I kind of asked a normal understandable question. I thought an adequate answer would be ... but no .. I was mistaken
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 14 September 2022 14: 00
            +1
            The answer is adequate, but off topic: it is about the World of tanks toy: 2 teams of 15 participants are butting there.
            1. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 14 September 2022 14: 21
              0
              Well, if the game .. then it's understandable
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 15 September 2022 00: 26
                +1
                Even the game has more in common with reality than the tales of beaten German wipes.
      2. Ritter Runkel
        Ritter Runkel 15 September 2022 15: 41
        0
        benachbarte Panzer regimented die in die gleiche Richtung handeln?
    3. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 14 September 2022 21: 13
      +1
      Quote: EvilLion
      How can you knock out 76 tanks in a battle, wassat
      BC T-6 Tiger 2 = 72 shots (shells)
      what
      1. Dmitry_Likhoded
        15 September 2022 14: 55
        -1
        BC "Royal Tiger" - 84 shells. 76 tanks were declared not in one battle, but in a day. The Germans indicated that they were leaving to reload after shooting the entire BC.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 15 September 2022 11: 25
      0
      Quote: EvilLion
      How can you knock out 76 tanks in a battle when there are only 30 of them in battle, and 1 of them is your own, and 14 are allies? wassat

      There are no allies in random. There are 15 obvious opponents and 14 hidden ones. smile
  6. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 14 September 2022 08: 44
    +3
    Further advancement of the 48th Guards. brigade was suspended due to strong enemy anti-tank fire, which was carried out from the forest,
    Father said that in this case, their 889 NBAP filled the forest with cassettes with phosphorus balls for half the night. Everything was on fire below. It was in Germany.
  7. Tank destroyerSU-100
    Tank destroyerSU-100 14 September 2022 09: 28
    +9
    Well, what do you want, if Rudel painted how he burned as many as 37 (TEN, KARL !!!!) IS-10 heavy tanks with one burst of 2-mm cannons. And any Luftwaffefil with foam at the mouth to a pig squeal will prove that these nonsense are the crystal truth. They will fight in epilepsy, defending this nonsense.
    Well, as an example of "fantasy" it should be noted, when the tankers Rybalko near Szydłów and Oglenduv in August 1944 also wrecked the 501st tank brigade, destroying 10 and capturing 3 royal "cats" in full service, the Germans of this battalion reported that they had destroyed as many as fifty IS-2s. Moreover, Rybalko had only 12 of these tanks, and 1 was lost by a burnt one.
    1. Ritter Runkel
      Ritter Runkel 15 September 2022 16: 05
      0
      Der Chef Panzer Tiger 2 müsste nach meinen Unterlagen im Patriotpark Kubinka stehen-mit erweiterten Funksystemen für Kompaniefuehrer wink
  8. north 2
    north 2 14 September 2022 09: 40
    +3
    I looked at German sites on the subject of military history. I did not find a single article where soldiers of the Red Army advancing in Germany would show off at least in one episode. Although there are plenty of such photos in the German archives, because there was plenty of reason for the soldiers of the Red Army to show off at the broken German equipment in the enemy's lair. Just German sites do not publish such photos.
    And what do we see on our VO website in the History section? Half a year ago, there were several articles where well-fed and contented, shiny German soldiers are chasing tired, ragged Soviet partisans through the forests. And immediately a table of statistics, how many Soviet partisans died, but there was no table there, how many of these well-fed and well-armed Germans were destroyed by those Soviet partisans.
    By the way, in today's article, the table is only about the losses of Soviet units for April 19, 1945. What, were the Germans without losses on April 19? And what well-fed and satisfied SS men are in the photo of their "Royal Tiger", so I’ll keep quiet ..
    Whose mill are you pouring water on, authors?
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      14 September 2022 11: 04
      +7
      I don’t know in which German archives you managed to see a lot of pictures of our soldiers near the broken German equipment. We have a big problem with good photos, and even correctly signed ones. And in general, you have to collect information literally bit by bit in order to identify which unit this or that tank is from. And in general, I personally try to select pictures for the article, not just with a beautiful picture, but in such a way that they would be relevant to the article.
      Maybe you misunderstood the meaning of the article? It is about whether the applications of a particular German tanker for April 19 are confirmed or not. It is for this that the figures of the losses of our units that fought on the desired sector of the front are given. This is not a detailed analysis of the operation with the loss figures of both sides. And if you want to see about hundreds of destroyed German tanks, you will be disappointed. Because there were very few of them. That is why in the applications of our tankers there is practically no mention of wrecked German tanks. Specifically, the 503rd TTB SS lost only one tank irrevocably, another 3-4 were damaged and went for repairs. The remaining 6 "Royal Tigers" withdrew to Berlin, where they were lost.
      If you didn’t like the well-fed and satisfied SS men in the spring of 1945, what can you do, but they also fought with such an enemy.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 14 September 2022 18: 23
        0
        A reasonable question is how many of those "KT" were at the time of the formation of the battalion?
        And how many cars came to replenish?
        1. Dmitry_Likhoded
          15 September 2022 15: 06
          +1
          In January 1945, the 503rd SS TTB received 39 "Royal Tigers". 13-17 tanks were lost in the Danzig area. Another 11-15 CTs were lost in February - March. By April, 11 CTs remained, which were lost on the outskirts of Berlin and in the city itself. The battalion did not receive any reinforcements. Among the Germans, some tank battalions could fight for almost a year without any replenishment at all.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 15 September 2022 15: 11
            0
            So they still lost tanks ... belay
            Will there be a similar, detailed article about the Böke tank regiment?
            "Savior" of the encircled Germans near Korsun-Shevchenkovsky.
            1. Dmitry_Likhoded
              15 September 2022 16: 15
              +1
              At one time I collected information on the "Boeke regiment", but mainly in terms of the composition, structure, equipment of this unit, but this is probably not enough for a good article. I was not particularly interested in combat then, and for this we need German archival documents, and there are problems with this.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 15 September 2022 16: 53
                0
                I read that there were and are questions about the composition of the regiment.
                The availability of equipment at the time of formation and the moment of entry into the battles for the breakthrough of the Soviet defense under K-Sh.
                And naturally attributed successes against the background of "minor" losses.
                1. Dmitry_Likhoded
                  16 September 2022 18: 00
                  +2
                  "Miserable" losses and large claims are classics, Western authors take figures only for the irretrievable losses of the Germans (since they simply did not have the "killed" category), tanks that went into repair or decommissioned later are also not included in losses. At the same time, the figures of German applications for destroyed Soviet tanks are indicated, which, of course, are overestimated. And so the result is obtained, like 5 lost - 200 destroyed.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 16 September 2022 20: 04
                    0
                    How is the Luftwaffe's damage percentage scale?
                    If up to 70%, the aircraft can be restored. Over 90% - destroyed!
                    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
                      17 September 2022 07: 17
                      0
                      No, it's a completely different system. The following tanks were included in irretrievable losses: burned out, completely destroyed, fallen into the hands of the enemy. These were the losses that were noted in the documents. All other tanks that were knocked out in battle, but which could be repaired, were entered into the category of short-term or long-term repairs.
                      And about the Boecke regiment and the ratio of losses. According to TL Jentz, in the last week of January 1944, the 503rd TTB wrote off 4 Tigers, II./Pz.Rgt.23 - 10 Panthers. In the first half of February, according to N. Zetterling, the same units irretrievably lost another 7 Tigers and 23 Panthers. That is, the regiment lost more than 40 tanks. According to our archival documents, the losses of armored vehicles were indeed quite large, although the 268 tanks allegedly destroyed by the Boecke regiment is, of course, a bit much. In total, units of the 1st UV in the Vinnitsa direction only lost more than 27 tanks from January 31 to January 500. About 50 tanks went missing along with their crews - in fact, they also burned down. But this work is not only of the Boecke regiment, but also of the units of the 6th and 16th TD III.Pz.Korps, advancing towards anti-tank weapons, aviation and other things.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 17 September 2022 10: 48
                        0
                        And how many tanks did Böck have at the time of the creation of his "personal regiment"?
                        How were beaten, but not evacuated cars taken into account?
                        At first they were on the territory of the Germans, then the Soviet troops recaptured this land. And the tank or BA, as they stood in a field or forest, remained there, not evacuated.
                        I also read that a very lightly damaged vehicle was first added to the lists for minor repairs, then transferred to the lists of medium repairs, then to the lists of factory repairs, but whether such a tank reached the repair plant is not yet known.
                      2. Dmitry_Likhoded
                        17 September 2022 16: 39
                        0
                        On January 23, 1944, when hostilities began, there were 503 Tigers (34 combat-ready) in the 20rd TTB, 23 Panthers (46 combat-ready) in II./Pz.Rgt.25, and at the headquarters of II./Pz. Rgt.11 - 2-3 command Pz.IVs.
                        If a damaged tank remained on the territory occupied by our troops, then it was written off for good. But it happened that in heavy battles it was not always possible to immediately find out where and what happened to him. Therefore, such a tank could be decommissioned after some time, when its condition was established or it became clear that it fell into the hands of the enemy. Such cases give some researchers the opportunity to claim that the Germans were hiding losses and stretching out the write-offs. Although trite, even an evacuated tank required some time to inspect and conclude about its future fate.
                        About the transfer from repair to repair is garbage and fiction. Although everything happened. For example, in a conditional battalion, Panthers have problems with engines. Requires 20 new engines, or other parts that the repairmen simply do not have. While they are waiting for the delivery of spare parts, the Panthers are in a short-term repair. In a couple of weeks, ours break through the front and capture the German repair base with these Panthers. After that, the Germans write them off, and in our time, whatever Vasya Pupkin shouts, they say, look, crooks, hide losses, the tanks even when they went for repairs, and they were written off only after three weeks.
                      3. hohol95
                        hohol95 17 September 2022 17: 41
                        0
                        So you consider the information that 503 Tigers were in the 69rd TTB on January 19, 1944 unreliable?
                        And it means that information on the Panther battalion will also be unreliable.
                        "In December 1943, 2 new Panthers were sent to replenish the 23nd Battalion of the 50rd Tank Regiment, another 36 left in January 1944 (they were received between January 13 and 20). In addition, on December 31, 1943, in the battalion had six "panthers", of which only one was combat-ready. Thus, the battalion was supposed to receive 86 new tanks. Of course, it is possible that some of the vehicles intended for it were redirected and transferred to other units. But still, questions about the number of tanks in the Beke group to the beginning of the operation "Vatutin" remain.
                        M. Kolomiets "Heavy tank" Panther "
                      4. Dmitry_Likhoded
                        17 September 2022 18: 43
                        0
                        See. At the end of December 503, the 1943rd TTB was transferred from near Kirovograd with only 4 serviceable Tigers out of 25 available. The damaged Tigers were located in the Uman region. In early January 1944, 45 new Tigers arrived from Germany in Zhmerinka to replenish the battalion, which had numerous manufacturing defects and signs of sabotage. Because of this, there were 11 cases of spontaneous combustion of engines - 1 Tiger burned out. Somewhere since January 10, the 503rd TTB fought near the Zhmerinka-Vinnitsa railway. And by the end of January, when the battalion was brought together with II./Pz.Rgt.23 into one group, it consisted of only 34 Tigers. 69 Tigers on January 19 is simply the result of adding up 25 old and 45 new tanks, minus 1 burned out. And there were no extra crews in the battalion for supernumerary Tigers.
                        According to Panthers II./Pz.Rgt.23 - according to M. Blok, 43 Panthers were sent to the battalion in December 50, in January 44 - 28. How many were received is unknown. Old Panthers could be transferred to another division. New arrivals must be received, checked, prepared for battle. I have not seen the documents of the 23rd TD for this period, so I cannot say anything specific. And M. Kolomiets just copy-paste Western authors, often without going into the topic, replicating many mistakes.
                      5. hohol95
                        hohol95 17 September 2022 19: 59
                        0
                        Information about the "sabotaged" "Tigers" from what sources?
                        Kolomiets, I think, was difficult to get into the archives of Germany.
                        And the main part of the claims should be addressed to Western authors. They also sat in the archives, talking with veterans, "the saviors of Europe from the fluffy Bolshevik hordes."
                        If they let this happen... they didn't work well in the archives...
                      6. Dmitry_Likhoded
                        18 September 2022 08: 03
                        0
                        Information on sabotage in the production of Tigers from German sources, including documents from heavy battalions. This trouble was noticed not only in the 503rd TTB.
                        Claims to the works of Kolomiyets are quite justified. You can publish a book by simply copying and compiling previously published data from various sources, without even trying to somehow check them and replicate errors. And you can try to find new, previously unpublished information.
                        Now, I’m never a historian, there’s no way to get into the archives at all, but I try to look for archival, previously unpublished information, and it is on its basis that I try to write articles.
                      7. hohol95
                        hohol95 18 September 2022 11: 01
                        0
                        Then do not specify what exactly was expressed by "sabotage"?
                        Maybe it was a simple marriage or the build quality fell. As in the Soviet defense enterprises.
                      8. Dmitry_Likhoded
                        18 September 2022 13: 22
                        0
                        Unfortunately, I can’t say for sure, like a problem with final drives, and not only. I am not interested in technical issues, so I did not save the information.
            2. Ritter Runkel
              Ritter Runkel 17 September 2022 00: 54
              0
              Oberstleutnant Dr. med. Franz Bäke-Korsun Schewschenkowski!!!!!! hi
      2. Ritter Runkel
        Ritter Runkel 15 September 2022 17: 02
        +2
        Lesen Sie bitte "Tiger im Kampf" ISBN 3-935197-02-1,SEITE 387-393 Kampfwege und Verluste der schweren Aber Standardwerk mit Hunderten von Fotos aller SS-Abteilungen.
        Druschba Ritter Runkel
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 16 September 2022 19: 07
          0
          Das ist only in RUSSIAN!
          Der frog der through the swamp der slap der slap der slap...
    2. bk0010
      bk0010 14 September 2022 14: 02
      +1
      Quote: north 2
      I did not find a single article where the soldiers of the Red Army advancing in Germany would show off at least in one episode.
      Our soldiers were forbidden to take pictures. Yes, and nothing. Therefore, all our photos are from war correspondents.
    3. Knell wardenheart
      Knell wardenheart 14 September 2022 14: 24
      +2
      Due to the specifics, knocking out one "Royal Tiger" was a much more time-consuming task than knocking out a conditional T-34ku. In 1945. it is also worth noting that the attacking side, as a rule, suffers greater losses than the defending side, if we are talking about tanks, then the advantage of German tanks in armor and the power of weapons (and to a certain extent, although not always in 1945, in sighting systems) and shells - gave them a solid bonus to ambush tactics, already very effective against a rapidly advancing enemy.
      It is not worth extrapolating the past to the present day - neither the quality nor the efficiency of intelligence then even came close to the current times. The Germans knew how to build a good defense and inflict good damage in it, and their intelligence, even in 1945, was still very professional. Hence the skewed losses, it will be inevitable.
    4. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 14 September 2022 14: 25
      +3
      Well, first, let's remember how ordinary Germans and Soviet citizens lived, almost everyone had cameras there, hence such a mass of photographs, both in the archives and in the public domain. the mess in this regard is complete, and for the year 43 it’s practically impossible to find reliable figures at all, only until the year 45 the Army Group North more or less kept detailed records, but there the front was static. So there is no need to blame the author for what no, and he doesn’t pour water on anyone’s mills, but the article is wonderful, these are not Samson’s opuses for you.
  9. Dmitry_Likhoded
    14 September 2022 10: 45
    +1
    Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
    Well, as an example of "fantasy" it should be noted, when the tankers Rybalko near Szydłów and Oglenduv in August 1944 also wrecked the 501st tank brigade, destroying 10 and capturing 3 royal "cats" in full service, the Germans of this battalion reported that they had destroyed as many as fifty IS-2s. Moreover, Rybalko had only 12 of these tanks, and 1 was lost by a burnt one.

    No one thrashed the 501st TTB, no need to tell fairy tales. Having started the battles with only two companies, the battalion suffered losses in quite heavy battles, but was not defeated and fought for a long time. About the German applications for 50 ISs - where does such nonsense come from? Well, your data about the loss of ISs is also not very correct. For example, the 71st Guards Tank Troops after the August battles handed over the remaining 6 ISs to the 61st Guards Tank Brigade, another 10 wrecked ISs went to SPAM, 5 were decommissioned. What 1 IC burned out?
    IS-2s generally lost quite a lot. Some heavy brigades "grind down" in just a couple of weeks.
  10. BAI
    BAI 14 September 2022 12: 56
    -1
    could see Kerner, who estimated their number as more than 100 units of T-34 and IS-2 (fear has big eyes) and confused the ISU-122 with the IS-2?

    It is possible to confuse IS-2 and ISU-122 only in writing on paper. In life - no
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      14 September 2022 13: 31
      +4
      Dear, I am sure that in the photo you personally will definitely not confuse them. And in battle, looking through the sight with a magnification of 2,5x - 5x through dust and smoke at a distance of 1 - 1,5 km? Working with documents and analyzing various combat episodes, I constantly encounter confusion in determining the types of equipment. Not only that, in our country, all German tanks were often en masse recorded in "Tigers", and self-propelled guns in "Ferdinands". There were also such real cases, for example, in close combat with the Hungarian StuG III they were mistaken for both Panthers and Tigers, in a battle with Hetzers they were also confused with Panthers. Although I am sure that you can easily distinguish these types of equipment in the photo.
      The Germans had the same trouble, at the end of the war any Soviet tank was mistaken for an IS or SU-100 was confused with the ISU-152. This is a common occurrence.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 15 September 2022 11: 33
      0
      Quote: BAI
      It is possible to confuse IS-2 and ISU-122 only in writing on paper.

      EMNIP, Isaev was pointed out that in the photo signed by him as ISU-122, the IS-2 was actually taken (view from the stern). The tank issued a Voroshilov machine gun, the installation of which was visible between the tank paratroopers.
  11. north 2
    north 2 14 September 2022 15: 22
    -3
    Quote: Dmitry_Likhoded
    I don’t know in which German archives you managed to see a lot of pictures of our soldiers near the broken German equipment. We have a big problem with good photos, and even correctly signed ones. And in general, you have to collect information literally bit by bit in order to identify which unit this or that tank is from. And in general, I personally try to select pictures for the article, not just with a beautiful picture, but in such a way that they would be relevant to the article.
    Maybe you misunderstood the meaning of the article? It is about whether the applications of a particular German tanker for April 19 are confirmed or not. It is for this that the figures of the losses of our units that fought on the desired sector of the front are given. This is not a detailed analysis of the operation with the loss figures of both sides. And if you want to see about hundreds of destroyed German tanks, you will be disappointed. Because there were very few of them. That is why in the applications of our tankers there is practically no mention of wrecked German tanks. Specifically, the 503rd TTB SS lost only one tank irrevocably, another 3-4 were damaged and went for repairs. The remaining 6 "Royal Tigers" withdrew to Berlin, where they were lost.
    If you didn’t like the well-fed and satisfied SS men in the spring of 1945, what can you do, but they also fought with such an enemy.

    so you should start the article with the words "I don't know ..."
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      14 September 2022 17: 08
      +1
      Thanks for the advice, but with what words I should start the article, I can decide for myself.
  12. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 14 September 2022 17: 03
    +2
    Write more than to feel sorry for his adversary. I think if you count all the tanks destroyed by the Germans during the war, then it will exceed a million, and this is only on the Kursk Bulge. The main thing is faith, gentlemen do not deceive, he said he knocked out 10 tanks with one shell, which means it is.
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      14 September 2022 17: 10
      +2
      Overestimation of the numbers of destroyed enemy equipment in WWII was present on all sides. And even now this is widely used.
      1. Alf
        Alf 14 September 2022 20: 23
        +3
        Quote: Dmitry_Likhoded
        Overestimation of the numbers of destroyed enemy equipment in WWII was present on all sides.

        You're right. But when the Ministry of Propaganda steps in...
  13. Nord11
    Nord11 14 September 2022 20: 29
    +1
    The Reich collapsed with a bang, in order to somehow support the morale of the Wehrmacht and civilians, Teutonic miracle heroes were hastily molded. Well, now what is the demand, what is the check?
  14. Ritter Runkel
    Ritter Runkel 15 September 2022 14: 33
    -1
    Jungs Buch lesen "Durchbruch an der Oder" Tony Le Tissier, ISBN 3860479040, habe anderes Problem zu klären. Habe Buch von Otto Carius "Tiger im Schlamm" mit Widmung. Frage: Contact mit welcher Gardepanzerbrigade am 20/21.07.1945 Malinawa?Abschuss
    by
    2Tiger1(Carius,Kerscher,502.schwere TPA-Heer) von 17 IS2, 5T34?,Kommadant Major"Held der Sowjetunion"? (Selbstmord?) Carius bekam von Himmler Eichenlaub zum Ritterkreuz. Werde dankbar für Info. Druschba RITTER RUNKEL wink
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Dmitry_Likhoded
      15 September 2022 15: 26
      +1
      Danke, ich habe "Durchbruch an der Oder" von Tony Le Tissier gelesen.
      Ich werde Ihre Frage nach der Schlacht am 22.07.1944/34/85 in der Nähe des Dorfes Malinawa kurz beantworten. In dieser Schlacht kämpfte Otto Carius mit T-41-5-Panzern der 2. Panzerbrigade des 48. Panzerkorps und IS-8-Panzern des 34. Schweren Panzerregiments. Sowjetische Verluste in dieser Schlacht (laut Archivdokumenten) - 5 T-2-Panzer and 3 IS-41-Panzer niedergebrannt. Kommandant Major "Held der Sowjetunion" ist der Kommandeur des 41. Bataillons der XNUMX. Panzerbrigade Hauptmann Ivan Nikolaevich Moroz. Ihm wurde der Orden des „Roten Sterns“ verliehen, den Carius mit dem „Goldenen Stern“ des Helden der Sowjetunion verwechselte. Viele Tanker der XNUMX. Panzerbrigade gingen an diesem Tag zu ihrer ersten Schlacht, die ihre letzte wurde.
      1. Ritter Runkel
        Ritter Runkel 15 September 2022 15: 51
        0
        Danke fur die Info. Im Buch ging Carius nur auf seine eigenen Beobachtungen ein. Konnte nur ungefähre Angaben machen. Ich nehme es in seinem Buch auf. "Nichts ist vergessen und niemand wird vergessen" DRUSCHBA Ritter Runkek
    3. Oleg812spb
      Oleg812spb 15 September 2022 15: 32
      +1
      O! Malinovo! Ja! Ja! https://rostislavddd.livejournal.com/389033.html
  15. Private SA
    Private SA 16 September 2022 01: 45
    +1
    Quote from kim
    something similar to the German pilots

    Quote: Dmitry_Likhoded
    usually a tank battalion with personnel with combat experience was taken and diluted with newcomers who also went to replenishment.

    Re-read or listen to the memoirs of Otto Carius on the Internet. A German tanker who fought on the Tiger. He was taught for a long time, sent to courses on the development of the machine,
    before entrusting the tank.
    Well, about the pilots - a different story. And about Rudel, and about Hartman.
  16. Dmitry_Likhoded
    16 September 2022 18: 09
    0
    Quote: Private SA
    Re-read or listen to the memoirs of Otto Carius on the Internet. A German tanker who fought on the Tiger. He was taught for a long time, sent to courses on the development of the machine, before entrusting the tank

    What is the training here? I wrote about the fact that ordinary tankers fought on the Tigers, sometimes without combat experience, and not just super-mega-professionals.
  17. Molot1979
    Molot1979 19 September 2022 14: 29
    0
    Somehow modestly the Fritz lied. They could write a couple of thousand frags.
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      19 September 2022 18: 04
      0
      Everyone lied. For example, in a certificate of losses inflicted on the enemy by units of the 1st UV, it is indicated that in January 1944 the troops of the front destroyed and captured 2595 tanks and self-propelled guns. Although on the entire Eastern Front at the end of December 1943, the Germans had only 2063 tanks and self-propelled guns.
  18. DeGreen
    DeGreen 20 September 2022 06: 48
    0
    In Carius' book, Tigers in the Mud, the author picked up dozens of our tanks every day.
    1. Dmitry_Likhoded
      20 September 2022 16: 14
      0
      If you try to check the claims of Carius against our archival documents, you will see that they coincide quite often. Of course, he embellished and exaggerated something, but this is a common thing for memories. Don't try to search the memoirs for archival accuracy. Moreover, after a severe injury and many years after the events that happened, this is not surprising.
      1. DeGreen
        DeGreen 20 September 2022 21: 37
        -1
        Disagree. From the word at all. One phrase about the fact that he, standing in the middle of a column of our tanks, knocked out 4 tanks, which is worth it. And the Germans themselves did not believe him
        1. Dmitry_Likhoded
          21 September 2022 16: 57
          -1
          You may disagree, but our documents say otherwise. As I understand it, you are talking about the episodes he described on November 4-6, 1943 near Nevel. So, on November 4, Carius fought with OT-34 tanks of the 118th Flamethrower Tank Brigade. The 1st TB brigade (12 OT-34) with an infantry landing of the 46th Guards Rifle Division advanced along the road and hit the Tiger. Ours lost 5 OT-34 burnt out (from the fire of Ferdinand), another 1 got stuck and was later burned by the Germans. Carius stated 10 T-34s, a common memoir exaggeration. On November 6, the same 1st TB of the 118th brigade with an infantry landing attacked again in the same place, again stumbling upon the Carius Tiger. The result - 5 burnt OT-34s, which 100% accurately confirms the words of Carius (3 tanks on his account, 2 more on anti-aircraft gunners). On the same day, the 118th brigade lost 7 T-70s burnt out, but in a different place.
          What kind of Germans do not believe Carius? More specifically.
  19. Altmann
    Altmann 20 September 2022 18: 31
    -3
    Well, it was supposed to be battle after battle, the soldiers really fought and won (ours). It's difficult, just look at the number of destroyed German tanks near Kursk, but it was not so. It is always important that the Red Army win and reach Berlin. Thanks to the author for the article. am