Military Review

"Holy Lance"

146
"Holy Lance"
Crucifixion of Christ. Above the soldier's head is written his name ΛΟΓΙΝΟΣ. Gospel of Rabula, 586. Medici Laurenziana Library, Florence



"... but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out."
John 19: 34

History and culture. There are artifacts of a unique fate in history. Their story is often like a detective story. And how many legends they gave rise to, and do not count. And one of these artifacts is the so-called Vienna spear, the Hofburg spear, or the Spear of St. Mauritius, although it is more correct to speak of the spearhead, since its shaft itself has not been preserved. It is believed that this tip is also one of the Instruments of the Passion of Christ, miraculously preserved to this day and, moreover, possessing great magical power. This is one of the greatest relics of the Christian faith, because it touched the flesh of Jesus Christ himself. True, confirmation that some kind of spear pierced his body is only in the Gospel of John. Three others - from Luke, Mark and Matthew, nothing is reported about this event. However, it is already a miracle that this tip, to which so many things are attributed, has survived to this day and is today stored in the imperial treasury of the Hofburg castle in Vienna. They also call it the "Spear of Fate", and that's what we'll tell you about today ...


"Kiss of Judas". Psalter, ca. 1260-1270 Attention is drawn to the spearheads shown in the miniature. State Library of Württemberg

Spear of Constantine, Longinus or Mauritius?


Let's start with the fact that this spear has undergone many interpretations and was considered at the same time the spear of the emperor Constantine, and the spear of St. Mauritius, and the spear of the centurion Longinus. Moreover, it became the “spear of Longinus” during the 4th century. So, one of the widespread legends said that the centurion Gaius Cassius Longinus struck Jesus Christ between the 5th and XNUMXth ribs with this spear, and it passed through the pleura, lung and heart, but did not damage the bones. Guy himself at the place of execution commanded the Roman soldiers who guarded Golgotha, and with a spear hit Jesus out of mercy so that he would not suffer for a long time on the cross.


"The Mercy Strike of Longinus". Psalter and Book of Hours, ca. 1310-1320 british library

The spilled blood of Joseph of Arimathea was collected in the Grail, and the body of the Savior was removed from the cross, covered with a shroud and laid in a coffin. At the same time, Gaius Cassius himself believed, became a Christian, and was later even canonized under the name of St. Longina. And it is clear that this spear, whoever it belongs to, has become a shrine, as well as a crown of thorns, a cross, nails, a shroud and a coffin.


Another blow of mercy. Neville's Book of Hours, c. 1325-1350 british library

The Gospel of John describes it this way:

“But since [then] it was Friday, the Jews, in order not to leave the bodies on the cross on Saturday, for that Saturday was a great day, they asked Pilate to break their legs and take them off. So the soldiers came, and they broke the legs of the first, and of the other who was crucified with Him. But, having come to Jesus, as they saw Him already dead, they did not break His legs, but one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. And he who saw testified, and his testimony is true; he knows that he speaks the truth so that you may believe. For this has come to pass, that the Scripture may be fulfilled: let not his bone be broken. Also in another [place] Scripture says: They will look at the one who was pierced. ” (19:31-37)


Judging by the number of images in the manuscripts, the theme of "strike" was very popular in the Middle Ages. Hours, ca. 1400-1440 Morgan Library and Museum, New York

According to another legend, it originally belonged to St. Mauritius, attributed the possession of this spear and Emperor Constantine. Then the future emperor Otto the Great somehow got it, and with his help he defeated the Hungarians at Lech in 955. So it ended up on the territory of the future Austria, and eventually came to the Habsburgs and turned into a state relic.

The fact that it belonged to Otto is reported by Liutprand of Cremona in his “History”, completed in 961. In it, he gives a description of the “Holy Spear” of Otto the Great, and it completely coincides with the description of the spear from the Hofburg. Moreover, the spear, according to Liutprand, originally belonged to Charlemagne, who in 774 received from the Pope as a sacred relic the spear of Emperor Constantine.


Judging by the numerous images of copies on the miniatures of the Stuttgart Psalter, this type of tip was very widespread in Europe already in the 801th century. Stuttgart Psalter, ca. 850-XNUMX State Library of Württemberg

Carolingian "winged spear"


From all of the above, one thing is clear - the spear is quite ancient. Moreover, referring to the miniatures of medieval manuscripts and the samples of iron spearheads of that time that have come down to us, it is easy to see that we have a typical tip of the Carolingian winged spear! Its length is 50,8 cm, width - 7,9 cm, and weight is 968 g.


The guard sleeps, and Jesus rises from the tomb. Moreover, one of the warriors still has a “winged spear” in his hands. History of the Bible, 1430 Darmstadt University and State Library, Germany

The steel tip is actually not a whole one, which, by the way, is why it looks so strange, but consists of two parts, fastened together with silver wire and additionally wrapped with a gold slip sleeve. The middle part of the tip is hollow. It contains a hammered nail, inlaid with tiny copper crosses, matching in length and shape to those nails used by the Romans in the XNUMXst century. It is also believed to be one of the Instruments of the Passion. The nail was screwed to the tip with silver wire. On the gold plate there is an inscription: "Spear and Nail of the Lord"(lat. LANCEA ET CLAVUS DOMINI). On the inner silver hoop is a more detailed text: "By the grace of God, Henry IV, the great Roman emperor, the most august, ordered to make this silver hoop in order to fasten the Nail of the Lord and the Spear of St. Mauritius"(lat. CLAVVS DOMINICVS + HEINRICVS D(EI) GR(ATI)A TERCIVS ROMANO(RUM) IMPERATOR AVG(USTUS) HOC ARGENTUM IVSSIT FABRICARI AD CONFIRMATIONE(M) CLAVI LANCEE SANCTI MAVRICII + SANCTVS MAVRICIVS).


There he is - a tip from the Imperial Treasury of the Hofburg Palace in Vienna. Length 50,7 cm, weight 968 g. Photograph of the Kunsthistorisches Museum Vienna

Since the tip is broken, there were attempts to fasten it with overlays: iron during the time of Emperor Otto III (X-XI centuries), silver under the Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV (XI-XII centuries) and gold in the XIV century under the Holy Roman Emperor Charles IV of Luxembourg (1346-1378), on whom this spear made such a strong impression that he attached a golden cuff to it with the inscription: “Spear and Nail of the Lord”, and then even got the pope to establish a holiday in honor of the spear and nail.


The Holy Spear, Imperial Cross, and Life-Giving Cross are holy relics of the imperial crown. Photograph of the Kunsthistorisches Museum Vienna

At one time, Vendalen Behveim was a well-known Austrian historian and weapons expert, author of the book “Encyclopedia weapons”, published in Russia in 1995, tried to dispel the myths of the spear. He argued that this is a typical early medieval spear, since it has two crossbars ("porches") at the base. But numerous additions, such as slots and gold overlays, were made later. Behaim dated the spear to around the XNUMXth century CE. e. That is, it is still a sample of a very ancient European pole weapon.


"Winged tip" XIII-IX centuries. Length 470 mm. Width 48 mm. Royal Arsenal, Leeds


"Winged Spear" 1400-1450 (shaft made of ash, modern work). Overall length 2121 mm, tip length 372 mm Weight (including shaft) 2,38 kg. Royal Arsenal, Leeds

Of course, such arguments were and are purely speculative. Therefore, already in our time, with the involvement of the most modern technology, the British expert Robert Feather in January 2003 carried out a thorough examination of the tip, including both X-ray spectral and fluorescent analysis, and they showed that they made it in the 600th century. So this tip has nothing to do with the story of Jesus Christ. The silver wire holding the tip together was made before XNUMX AD. It was also confirmed that the silver lining was made in the XNUMXth century, and the gold one in the XNUMXth century.


Tip without lining

Actually, this was clear before, because its shape does not at all resemble the tips of Roman spears. As you know, in the first centuries of our era, the Romans no longer used their famous pilum throwing dart. In the course was a universal hasta spear with a bay leaf-shaped tip. While the "winged spears" in Europe were in use until the XNUMXth century.


Holy spear from the Etchmiadzin Monastery

It is interesting, however, that not only this spear is considered sacred. Actually there are three! In addition to the Hofburg, the tip with a broken point is kept in the Vatican, there is a copy of this tip kept in the Krakow Cathedral, and, finally, the so-called "Armenian spear", which is also a shrine, but which certainly could not be worn by any Roman of the era of Jesus Christ . It is also very ancient and has been located in the city of Vagharshapat in the treasury of the Echmiadzin monastery since the XNUMXth century, but the Catholicos of all Armenians does not allow it to be explored. But human imagination is limitless. There would be an artifact, and she would attribute so many legends to him that she could not count. However, they will be discussed in our next article.
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 17 September 2022 04: 45
    +7
    Thank you.
    It was unsuitable for Charlemagne to give something overwhelming. That's the Pope's assistants and tried.

    At least the legends allowed the spear to survive to our time. I don't know how happy it is.
    1. Shurik70
      Shurik70 17 September 2022 13: 14
      +2
      "Spear without pads" - in the middle of a hefty hole.
      Something I doubt that this will happen on a real military weapon.
      It's not a valley, but a hole. It also greatly reduces the durability of the weapon. Moreover, in the time of Christ, they could not make durable metal. And if this is not a meteorite, then strength was obtained in thickness.
      As usual, fake.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 18 September 2022 08: 30
        +1
        "Spear without pads" - in the middle of a hefty hole.
        Something I doubt that this will happen on a real military weapon.
        It's not a valley, but a hole. It also greatly reduces the durability of the weapon.
        It is written in black and white that the hole was made later in order to place a nail there, with which they allegedly nailed Christ to the cross. In the same way as flat plates are added between the side wings and the tip itself.
        1. Shurik70
          Shurik70 18 September 2022 10: 35
          0
          Quote: abrakadabre
          hole made later

          Not said. It is said that "the middle part is hollow".
          When this cavity appeared is not said. But I can’t imagine that holes are drilled in such a shrine to make it “prettier” - I can’t.
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 19 September 2022 07: 41
            0
            But I can’t imagine that holes are drilled in such a shrine to make it “prettier” - I can’t.
            Generally easy. After fasting, prayer and other "dances with a tambourine". There they divided almost all their saints into spare parts (holy relics). And then someone in silver, someone in gold, and for souvenirs in different churches. General practice in general. There would be in the presence of the remains of the most! and it would be torn to pieces. And even seconds would not complex. And then there's a spear. Cross won quite officially divided.
  2. ee2100
    ee2100 17 September 2022 05: 27
    +8
    If there was a story, there would be artifacts!
    XNUMXth century wooden sculpture group, Niguliste Museum.


    Two horsemen and the spear of Longinus.
  3. ee2100
    ee2100 17 September 2022 05: 31
    +18
    This article reminds me of the story with the head of John the Baptist
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 17 September 2022 05: 55
      +7
      It's easier with spears. However, there would be an event, and the history of the characters, and the details will be selected.

      "Satyricon" is not enough for everyone. It is interesting that in the museum itself they talk about this artifact. And for whom.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 17 September 2022 06: 33
        +4
        Good morning!
        I hope the author was in the Hofburg and will tell you what they say about this spear.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 17 September 2022 06: 41
          +9
          Good morning!

          The wording "according to the legend" is very convenient. And leaves room for imagination. However, every legend has a basis.
          And this is where it gets interesting to get to the bottom of it.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 17 September 2022 08: 38
            +4
            "According to legend", and we are all surprised at the British "highly likel"! Turns out it's been around for a long time!
            With a high degree of probability, according to legend!
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 17 September 2022 08: 41
              +4
              A popular excursion is different from an evidentiary accusation. Even from a research article is different.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 17 September 2022 08: 58
                +4
                I rarely go on excursions. But one remained in the memory and for a long time! am
                Kaporye. Guide pearls:
                - "Poles were worse than Nazis"
                - "Alexander Nevsky drove the knights out of the fortress and drove them to Lake Peipsi, where he defeated them on the ice"
                There was more, but not as pronounced.
                And further. Talking about different times, she said "We" and "They". (Knights, Germans, Swedes, Poles)
                To the question "Who are they?" She said - "This is my ninth excursion today, I'm tired, and it's hard for me to remember who they were" drinks
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 17 September 2022 09: 54
                  +5
                  Masterpieces of the colloquial genre are remembered. And if you collect - you can get into history. Chernomyrdin's aphorisms are a good example.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 17 September 2022 10: 13
                    +4
                    And call the book "Statements of guides, as a contribution to national history"
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 17 September 2022 10: 15
                      +2
                      You can patent the name.

                      By the way, such blunders could be used in Olympiads for schoolchildren: find, they say, a mistake.
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 September 2022 10: 21
                        +3
                        Has the exam been cancelled? And it's quite a working idea.
                        But the most interesting thing is that in response to my boring question "Who are they?" The group, about 15 people, shushed me, like don't bother listening!
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 17 September 2022 10: 40
                        +3
                        Doesn't matter. Thematic Olympiads are held. The second daughter reached the finals of the All-Russian Olympiad in History. But that was already 12 years ago.

                        And the exam works. My son passed this year.
                      3. lisikat2
                        lisikat2 17 September 2022 16: 22
                        0
                        For me personally: the USE is a good idea, but the execution is clumsy.
                        I grew up at the Unified State Examination and I know the pre-Unified State Examination era from books.
                        They told me what they wanted to do at first: in parallel with the exams. In order to run in for 5 years and compare the results, where is it better?
                        In reality: they ran in several regions and elite schools and briefly
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 17 September 2022 17: 45
                        +3
                        One of the ideas is not to give admission to the selection committee of the university. There are pluses and minuses to this.
                      5. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 17 September 2022 18: 14
                        +4
                        One of the ideas is not to give admission to the selection committee of the university. There are pluses and minuses to this.
                        There are no pluses here. In fact, the university is deprived of input quality control of the enrollment. It is no coincidence that after the introduction of the Unified State Examination, the highest scores in the Russian language are observed among Caucasian applicants who do not know how to connect a couple of words in Russian.
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 18 September 2022 06: 35
                        +2
                        I agree with you. And with a per capita payment system, it is impossible to deduct painlessly.

                        Another thing is that there were also abuses in the selection committees of universities.
                      7. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 18 September 2022 09: 09
                        +2
                        Another thing is that there were also abuses in the selection committees of universities.
                        Well, it's obvious, crimes were, are and will always be. Another thing is that at the present time you are given an application with high scores, and their essence is clarified only at the winter session.
                      8. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 18 September 2022 11: 55
                        +1
                        And it’s good if there is still the possibility of deductions within reasonable limits.
                      9. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 18 September 2022 14: 13
                        +1
                        There are formal signs - two retakes, then a retake of the commission, and that's it. If he does not acquire a certificate of illness. Then - an individual schedule. I am a part-time worker, the dean's office is not a decree for me. And I don’t need ignoramuses at my main job, and nobody needs them. Several people have already been selected for 29 years of teaching.
                      10. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 18 September 2022 14: 57
                        +1
                        Probably it should be. It is impossible to lower the bar to indecency. And now only the lazy does not acquire a higher education. But it still had meaning. I hope it stays.

                        Son, by the way, entered your MAI.
                      11. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 18 September 2022 17: 02
                        +1
                        That's good. I myself am in Zhukovsky, at the Strela faculty of the Moscow Aviation Institute. And what is he on?
                      12. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 19 September 2022 01: 15
                        +1
                        On Streshnevo. On Navigation. But, if suddenly the opportunity presents itself, he plans to switch to Digital Technologies. And some items they are on the "Molodyozhnaya" pass.
                      13. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 19 September 2022 08: 19
                        +1
                        It's clear. His desire to go digital can only be explained by modern fashion and youth. On "Navigation" digital technologies are no less.
                      14. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 19 September 2022 20: 59
                        +1
                        I'll pass it on to him. I hope that he will think and make decisions.

                        He knows how to work, but there are more than enough signs of being stunned.

                        It was easier with older daughters.
                      15. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 19 September 2022 23: 18
                        +1
                        He knows how to work, but there are more than enough signs of being stunned.
                        Young, they are. But youth passes quickly. especially the army helps. My one served, however, after the institute, and the other did not, as he attended a military department. There are differences
                      16. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 20 September 2022 03: 21
                        +1
                        Yes. Growing up is not only determined by time. Also events.
                      17. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 17 September 2022 18: 08
                        +4
                        to my nerdy question "Who are they?" The group, about 15 people, shushed me, like don't bother listening!
                        Tourists are different. Once upon a time, in the early 80s, while on an excursion to the Hermitage's Diamond Storeroom, I was very surprised when, at the end of the tour, a very fashionably dressed excursionist asked, "How much does Scythian gold cost?" The guide, taken aback, began to develop the theme of the pricelessness of the exhibits, and this character gave out - "But there should be a sample!"
                      18. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 September 2022 18: 45
                        +1
                        I was introduced to a certain employee of this institution, I will not write his name, from the Hermitage - 2 excursions, the second on my chosen topic, he did not like it, but still - this is the best thing I have heard and seen.
                        When he led us, "tails" lined up behind us. Expensive, but worth it, if not more.
                        I will be in St. Petersburg, I will try to invite friends on a VIP tour.
                2. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 17 September 2022 12: 23
                  +5
                  Kaporye. Guide pearls:
                  - "Poles were worse than Nazis"
                  Poles in Koporye? I was immediately inspired by a memory from childhood, when in a history lesson one of our students talked about the defeat of the uprising of Spartacus - "And when he was surrounded by the soldiers of Crassus, Spartak grabbed a machine gun and began to fire back furiously"
          2. lisikat2
            lisikat2 17 September 2022 16: 30
            0
            Corsair, Sergei ?, I do not agree "according to legend" already implies fiction. There are better wording: they say there is a version, and so on
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 17 September 2022 17: 46
              +2
              If there is a version, there must be another.

              “Sometimes the spring beats, and sometimes it flows” (c).
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 17 September 2022 19: 05
                +2
                "I understand what your trouble is. You are too serious. All the stupid things on earth are done with this facial expression ... Smile, gentlemen, smile" (c)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 17 September 2022 20: 14
                  +1
                  You can refer to this film regularly.
                2. Fat
                  Fat 17 September 2022 20: 15
                  +3
                  hi
                  The students of the medical institute were sent to practice in the "durka" and on the first day they were taken to the wards to get acquainted with the situation. They enter one of the wards, and the doctor, shouting "ass!", "oops!", begins to dance the lezginka and clap his hands ...
                  All patients are undermined and begin to light with him, as at a wedding. The doctor frolic for a couple of minutes, then leaves the ward with the students and explains: “It’s good here, outside, people are always some kind of serious, too squeezed, but here I rest my soul, they will always support you here ...”
                  smile
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 17 September 2022 20: 56
                    0
                    No offense. Three years and a little more worked in a durke. And you're trying to get me this, sorry, garbage?
                    1. Fat
                      Fat 17 September 2022 22: 51
                      +2
                      This is an anecdote circulating on the net, Alexander. Who its author is not known.
                      Quote: ee2100
                      "I understand what your trouble is. You are too serious ..." (c)

                      To quote, so closer to the "original":
                      I understand what your problem is. You are too serious. A smart face is not yet a sign of intelligence, gentlemen. All stupid things on Earth are done with this facial expression. You smile, gentlemen. Smile!

                      Sincerely. No offense of course smile
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 18 September 2022 09: 33
                        0
                        I don't take offense. The mood was like this.
        2. kalibr
          17 September 2022 07: 03
          +5
          Quote: ee2100
          was in the Hofburg and will tell

          To be, there was, but ... the hall was empty, ask ... from whom? In Russian? In English? And the sign below it was in German. And shooting through the glass is very inconvenient. That's why. I don’t know what they say about him. They just write ...
          1. lisikat2
            lisikat2 17 September 2022 16: 38
            +1
            "was in German", but you don't know how to speak German.
            We had the following wording in the fifth: "I don’t crow in this or in German
        3. Engineer
          Engineer 17 September 2022 07: 44
          +6
          In the Hofburg it is written that this is a Frankish spear of the 7th century. The gold lining belongs to later times.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 17 September 2022 08: 20
            +4
            Then there are no contradictions.
          2. ee2100
            ee2100 17 September 2022 08: 41
            +3
            If you are right, then where was Shpakovsky and what did he see? laughing
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 17 September 2022 09: 06
              +8
              There are no contradictions with Shpakovsky's text.
              Photographing not only exhibits, but also descriptions of them is very tiring.
              I might add that the relics, including the spear, were sworn by the chosen emperors of the HRE. The relics were kept in Nuremberg.
              Emperor Franz (if memory serves) moved them to Vienna. After the Anschluss, Hitler took them back to Nuremberg. After the war, the exhibits returned to Vienna.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 17 September 2022 09: 30
                +4
                I think that many have read about this spear and there is no news in the article.
                Shpakovsky stubbornly proves, and rightly so, that this is a later replica, or rather a remake.
                So what did the emperors swear on?
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 17 September 2022 09: 40
                  +6
                  Emperors swore on symbols, which over the centuries acquired an independent meaning, regardless of the authenticity of their background.
                  The Free City of Nuremberg exhibited relics in the city church for a short time each year. This made a huge impression on the parishioners. Relics took on their life and a halo of colossal importance
                  And the fact that HRE has its own sword of Charlemagne, And in France, few people then worried about their own.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 17 September 2022 09: 48
                    +3
                    I didn't understand the last sentence. Looks like a typo
                2. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 09: 41
                  +5
                  Quote: ee2100
                  Shpakovsky stubbornly proves, and rightly so, that this is a later replica, or rather a remake.

                  Well, like a brand new... smile
                  British expert Robert Feather in January 2003 carried out a thorough examination of the tip, including both X-ray and fluorescence analysis, and they showed that they made it in the XNUMXth century.

                  The seventh century, after all, hoary antiquity ... For anyone, the most valuable relic.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 17 September 2022 09: 46
                    +5
                    Hi Michael!
                    But they pass it off as the spear of Longinus, a weapon of the first century.
                    Clearly a rarity.
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 09: 52
                      +8
                      My respect, Alexander. smile
                      Well, you have to worship something... Shroud of Turin, look, even younger...
                      Religion is inherently irrational, what can I say ... If you believe - you believe, no evidence is needed, and if you do not believe, then they are not needed all the more.
                      To be honest, I do not really understand the true meaning of scientific research in purely religious areas. To prove that the clergy are telling the truth? What for? Accuse them of lying? Again - why? This is their internal business - what they want, they will call it a shrine, they will worship it, they have every right.
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 September 2022 10: 10
                        +5
                        I, as always, about mine. About common sense laughing
                        I agree, faith is a very vague concept, but ..
                        All we know about the life of Christ is written sources.
                        Incl. and about the spear of Longinus.
                        But Shpakovsky's text contains one picture called
                        "The guard is sleeping, and Jesus is rising from the tomb. Moreover, one of the soldiers still has a "winged spear" in his hands. "History of the Bible", 1430. Darmstadt University and State Library, Germany"
                        Which causes a certain distrust of this whole story, or rather its presentation.
                        For sleeping on duty, a very important offense, usually death. And then the body disappears. The legionnaire carries a "blizzard" such as the corpse "evaporated". And they believe him!
                        Misha, would you believe?
                        In the future, we are told that Christ was seen, alive, and this is explained simply - he is risen! Delov then!
                        And so for 2000 years.
                        My opinion, there was something similar, but the plot was slightly tweaked
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 10: 28
                        +2
                        Sasha, read the "Gospel of Aphranius" by Kirill Yeskov. smile In my opinion, a wonderful thing. All inconsistencies in the Bible are packed into one internally consistent version. Well, it's an interesting read.
                        But seriously, I personally treat all biblical stories as interesting, sometimes stupid, sometimes smart tales, nothing more. For me, the literary image of Jesus is certainly a collective one, in the form as it is described in the Bible it never existed, it is useless to look for a prototype, just like looking for any inconsistencies, contradictions, etc. in Holy Scripture.
                      3. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 September 2022 10: 34
                        +2
                        Okay, I'll try to find this book.
                      4. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 September 2022 11: 01
                        +1
                        The book is not so easy to find, it turns out to be a popular thing.
    2. Hypertension
      Hypertension 17 September 2022 12: 41
      0
      Saint Peter left behind 16 bodies in different monasteries. St. Julian - 20 torsos and 26 heads, St. Andrew, who baptized Russia, possessed after death 5 torsos, 6 heads and 17 arms and legs. The same numerous remains were left behind by many other saints. In addition to this, a total of about 200 nails have been preserved, with which Jesus was once nailed to the cross.

      Lecture in the collective farm club:
      - Comrade collective farmers. Before you is the skull of Alexander the Great, where he is 7 years old. And this skull, where he is 25 years old. And finally, the skull of the deceased Alexander the Great. Any questions?
      - Tell me, please, how can one person have three skulls?
      - Excuse me, who? - asks the lecturer.
      - A summer resident.
      - So go fuck yourself. Lecture for collective farmers.
    3. depressant
      depressant 17 September 2022 13: 16
      +1
      This article reminds me of the story with the head of John the Baptist

      "Ten heads of John the Baptist are known in the world, but only three of them are authentic"...
      In the morning I slipped through the comments and did not read the text of the illustration. Now, more attentively - shaking with laughter!
      Sasha, thanks! Autumn drowsiness vanished wassat )))
  4. Coward
    Coward 17 September 2022 05: 55
    +3
    Judging by the pictures, the blow was delivered from the right. It turns out that Jesus was a mirror image.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 September 2022 06: 45
      +6
      Situs inversus is not a very rare anomaly, the probability of occurrence is 1/10000. But you need to know about it. It turns out that either Longin knew, or he was warned. In any case, the centurion was a member of the inner circle of Jesus.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 10: 21
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Situs inversus is not a very rare anomaly, the probability of occurrence is 1/10000. But you need to know about it. It turns out that either Longin knew, or he was warned. In any case, the centurion was a member of the inner circle of Jesus.

        How could Anton the artist know about this?
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 September 2022 13: 48
          +1
          Anton is not an artist, Anton is a builder.)))
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 15: 37
            +2
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Anton is not an artist, Anton is a builder.)))

            Anton-buddy I guess. Apparently clumsily constructed phrase.
            Religion, Christianity in particular, benefited from this! Imagine if instead of a legionnaire, Jesus was “pitied” by a bricklayer!!!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 September 2022 16: 02
              0
              I think if the world was ruled by "builders" and not "artist sergeants", this world would be a better place.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 07: 04
      +4

      Given that the illustration was written one and a half thousand years after the events described, then discussing it as a source ...
      Today, with the basic 10 classes, it’s easy for us to imagine what a legionnaire looked like on Christmas Day, a monk illustrator of the 15th century, alas, there was no such knowledge.
      So that's why the legionnaires of the Author of the miniature are more Turks than Romans!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 17 September 2022 07: 17
        +6
        Given that the illustration was written one and a half thousand years after the events described, then discussing it as a source ...
        The bottom line is that this is not the only illustration where Longinus pokes Jesus in the right hypochondrium with a spear.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 09: 53
          +2
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Given that the illustration was written one and a half thousand years after the events described, then discussing it as a source ...
          Good morning Anton!
          The bottom line is that this is not the only illustration where Longinus pokes Jesus in the right hypochondrium with a spear.

          On most crucifixes, the spear wound is located where it should be.
          Such illustrations have an author who made a mistake.
          The rest, tritely repeated ..
          With a small and stopped information exchange, such errors are fatal and natural!
          This is us, today we opened the Internet, turned on the box and a portion of information. How much could an artist monk learn? Even more, I’ll say he could just about which side of the heart he didn’t think about !!!
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 17 September 2022 10: 23
            +3
            As far as I remember, the wound on the right is canon and is reproduced in most of the images.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 10: 43
              +3
              Quote: Engineer
              As far as I remember, the wound on the right is canon and is reproduced in most of the images.

              To be honest, I was not interested in this issue. However, when struck with a spear on the right side of the body, one can hit the heart.
              A man crucified on a cross hangs half a meter above the ground. Hands crucified on the crossbar. Without frills, I tried to portray a similar one with a shovel, not that. I took a two-meter pipe from a snow holder. It became creepy from reality, even from my knowledge of forensics. How plausible everything is! Horror!!!
    3. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 09: 25
      +6
      Quote: Coward
      Judging by the pictures, the blow was delivered from the right. It turns out that Jesus was a mirror image.

      Not at all. smile
      We do not know for sure what kind of injuries were inflicted on Jesus - it is impossible to conduct a forensic medical examination, since the victim ascended to heaven in its entirety, along with the body.
      Thus, information about
      centurion Gaius Cassius Longinus used this spear to stab Jesus Christ between the 4th and 5th ribs, and it passed through the pleura, lung and heart, but did not damage the bones
      is not documented in any way. smile
      But, let's assume that the listed damage really took place. Then, with a length of a spear (its tip) of half a meter, a blow inflicted on the right between the 4th and 5th ribs to the full depth could well hit the heart. True, for this it is necessary that it be applied in a horizontal plane, so that the attacker and victim are at the same level, and the attacker must be on the side.
      So either the Romans' crosses were low, or Longinus was a Giant, or ... the circumstances of the death of Jesus are stated incorrectly.
      As for the picture, with such a mutual arrangement of Longinus and Jesus, a blow inflicted between the 4th and 5th ribs could not hit the heart in any way - the direction of the traumatic effect excludes such a possibility.
      smile
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 17 September 2022 09: 56
        +5
        Hint - the Roman lancea is sharpened from the sides like a horn. The blow is not necessarily purely stabbing.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 10: 16
          +4
          A chopping blow delivered from below would certainly damage the ribs. smile
          No, here, from the point of view of forensic medicine, the conclusion should be quite unambiguous - for any location of the internal organs, such a blow could only be inflicted in a horizontal plane. Upward impact is excluded.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 17 September 2022 10: 20
            +4
            Stand not directly in front of the body, but to the left-front. Poke under the ribs. A lateral component of the blow appears in addition to the stabbing one. It is now possible to pull the spear to the right along the edge at the same time as penetration. Penetrating, the spear simultaneously rips open the chest in the transverse direction and reaches the heart
            1. Nephilim
              Nephilim 17 September 2022 10: 50
              +3
              Evangelist John the Theologian does not say from which side the Roman soldier pierced the ribs of Jesus Christ. However, church tradition vividly preserved all the details relating to the suffering and death on the cross of the Savior of the world. Icon painters undoubtedly relied on this tradition. This is how the icon-painting tradition arose to depict the right side pierced. Studies of the Holy Shroud of the Lord have confirmed the historical accuracy of the tradition. “On the right side, between the fifth and sixth ribs, on the body there is an oval puncture approximately 4,5 by 1,5 cm in size, caused by a sharp piercing object. From a vast wound, blood flowed down and then back; this happened when the body was laid in a horizontal position ... All reputable scientists agree that the wound was inflicted after death. They proceed from the fact that a small amount of viscous, coagulating blood flowed out and a separation of blood clots from the ichor occurred ... Due to severe injuries and subsequent suffering on the cross, a significant amount of blood accumulated in the pleural region. She was divided into parts. And the heavy fractions sank down. Blood and water - a thick fraction of blood, and then a light one ”(Priest Vyacheslav Sinelnikov. Shroud of Turin at the dawn of a new era, M., 2002, p. 27). The perforation of the ribs on the right side did not happen by chance: it is the result of the professional skills of the Roman spearmen. During the battle, the left side of the warrior was covered with a shield, and the right side was open. “The legionnaires specially trained to inflict fatal wounds to the heart from this side, where it remained without cover”

              Hieromonk Job (Gumerov).
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 17 September 2022 11: 19
                +3
                It's better to split the thread here.
                Canonical images appeared centuries after the execution of Jesus. On them he has a neat wound on the right. Because of their later appearance, they cannot be any evidence.
                The Shroud of Turin is a medieval remake. There are traces of blood on it, most likely ocher.
                1. Nephilim
                  Nephilim 17 September 2022 13: 22
                  +4
                  It's better to split the thread here.

                  Can. And you can carefully read the official version adopted by the church, which does not indicate that the canonical images are "evidence", but says that the canonical image appeared on the basis of some legends. Again.
                  However, church tradition vividly preserved all the details relating to the suffering and death on the cross of the Savior of the world. Icon painters undoubtedly relied on this tradition. This is how the icon-painting tradition arose to depict the right side pierced.

                  Where is the "evidence"? As for the shroud - for the church, both Orthodox and Catholic, it is still a relic, it would be strange if a representative of the church announced a "remake".
            2. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 11: 15
              +3
              But all the same, the blow must be struck "parallel to the ground" and nothing else. From the side, from the front - you can do it this way or that, a stabbing blow, chopping, piercing-cutting all the same, if between the 4th and 5th ribs, then you can only get to the heart with a horizontal blow, plus or minus ten degrees.
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 10: 58
            +4
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            A chopping blow delivered from below would certainly damage the ribs. smile
            No, here, from the point of view of forensic medicine, the conclusion should be quite unambiguous - for any location of the internal organs, such a blow could only be inflicted in a horizontal plane. Upward impact is excluded.

            It must be understood that Jesus was crucified and was higher than the legionnaire with a spear.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 11: 20
              +3
              That's exactly what I'm talking about. A blow from the bottom up, could not inflict such damage.
              Cross low?
              Longinus high?
              Did they bring him a stool?
              Or was the blow struck under other circumstances? smile
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 10: 54
        +3
        Hi Michael. But the option becomes ideal under the ribs, to the depth of the tip of the Roman spear "gast".

        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 11: 24
          +2
          Hello, Vlad.
          Yes, here you still need to take into account the length of the spear shaft. I think the length of a regular legionnaire's spear is known, so you can even calculate at what height the target should be in order for the impact trajectory to coincide with the wound channel known to us. smile
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 12: 11
            +3
            Yes, here you still need to take into account the length of the spear shaft.

            I was not too lazy to get reference books. During that period, approximately 180 to 200 meters (with a tip).
            In any case, the blow was delivered under the ribs, and not through them. Here you are right.
            1. depressant
              depressant 17 September 2022 13: 28
              +1
              But could it not be that Longinus, holding his hand up high, raised his spear and, holding it parallel to the ground, pierced the crucified body in the right place?
              Experimented. It turns out somewhat on the side due to the grip.
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 17 September 2022 13: 25
        +4
        it is impossible to conduct a forensic medical examination, since the victim ascended to heaven in its entirety, along with the body.

        It remains only to sympathize with the doctors. request
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 15: 32
          +2
          Quote: Sea Cat
          it is impossible to conduct a forensic medical examination, since the victim ascended to heaven in its entirety, along with the body.

          It remains only to sympathize with the doctors. request

          Uncle Kostya pathologists are perhaps the most cynical people, even among medical workers! Even some seasoned operas and seasoned surgeons, traditionally, try not to get involved with this fraternity.
          One of the tales. On a hunt in the company of the local elite, the pathologist cut his leg with a knot. A colleague surgeon, treating the wound with vodka, regrets the strong drink in his heart. The pathologist, calmly remarks - “Stepenych, you are ten years older than me and still have not understood that 9 out of 10 survive under your lower body, and zero under mine !!!”.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 17 September 2022 15: 45
            +2
            pathologists are perhaps the most cynical people, even among medical professionals!


            Yes, humor is different. laughing

            1. depressant
              depressant 17 September 2022 18: 16
              +3
              "I give you all these stars! -
              and gave a stick on the head. "(c)

              Kostya, glad to see you! love )))
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 17 September 2022 18: 35
                +2
                Good evening, Luda! smile
                I'm glad to meet you too. love
            2. ee2100
              ee2100 17 September 2022 19: 08
              +2
              Kostya, hi!
              An old medical saying - "the pathologist is the best diagnostician!"
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 17 September 2022 19: 41
                +2
                Hi Sasha!

                "The doctor said to the morgue - that means to the morgue!" (C) request
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 September 2022 07: 35
    +7
    Oh, Vyacheslav Olegovich! You are terribly far from the Hollywood cinematograph! Before publication, you should watch "Konstantin - the lord of darkness", where the spear of Longinus is fully played out. What illustrations!
    Thank you for the article!
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2022 08: 30
      +4
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Before publishing, you should watch "Konstantin - the lord of darkness",

      I can't watch everything. I watched the film "Thirteen" (1936), "The Lost Squad" (1966), and something else "for work". Watch everything ... and when to write?
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 17 September 2022 08: 42
        +6
        It's true. Some see it, some don't. Kysmet, however...
  6. depressant
    depressant 17 September 2022 07: 59
    +3
    Gaius Cassius Longinus received his sight (believed) after drops of Christ's blood fell on his eyes...
    Church wine, even as an alternative, ends up in the wrong place.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 September 2022 08: 20
      +3
      Church wine, even as an alternative, ends up in the wrong place.
      Cahors and prosvirka, those are still pagan rites.
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 September 2022 09: 06
        +3
        Agree. empty rituals.
        At least they pour zenki, at least they take a bite of church wine with communion. The blood of Christ cannot fall into the eyes of the blind, for he ascended. They say it will come soon. Will a hand be raised to crucify again?
        Apparently, you will have to cut your wrist yourself - drink, open your eyes, go.ot!
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 09: 45
          +7
          Quote: depressant
          Agree. empty rituals.

          I do not agree.
          One of my acquaintances decided to be baptized in adulthood. The day before, we celebrated this matter well, and in the morning everyone went to church, as was appointed. We all suffered, and he was communed with kagorchik and he felt great. So the practical meaning in this rite is in certain circumstances! - everything is just like that. smile
          1. depressant
            depressant 17 September 2022 10: 13
            +5
            Ha-ha-ha!... The guy got drunk with a suitable wine, and even a suggestion by the rite, you will brighten up here! wassat )))
  7. depressant
    depressant 17 September 2022 08: 10
    +6
    Strange ...
    I always knew from various sources that Longinus struck Christ in the liver. Just to see if he's still alive. They say that this is how the crucified were tested. Splashes of blood - alive.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 17 September 2022 08: 26
      +5
      Here's what's in the New Testament:

      But when they came to Jesus, when they saw him already dead, they did not break his legs,
      but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water.
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 September 2022 09: 14
        +4
        Apparently, Jesus just lost consciousness. Something moved in Longin's soul at the sight of evidence of life...
        "Dead, shoot!"
        Carried to the cave, filled up with stone. At night they rolled off, took away, cured. He stayed to live, continued his work under a different name, and it did not die out. Blazed!
        Name!
        Longinus - this was the beginning of the era of mercy.
      2. Fat
        Fat 17 September 2022 10: 23
        +5
        hi Greetings. Only in the gospel of John is there a story about a spear. Obviously, the "evangelical weather forecasters" (Mark, Matthew and Luke) did not focus on this check, which is usual for such an execution, the blow was delivered in the hypochondrium, in the liver. A significant part of illustrators knew this. And yes, it is not known whether John and the mother of Jesus were present at the execution. Other evangelists don't have about it recourse
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 17 September 2022 10: 38
          +4
          Greetings Andrey. It also appears to have been a common procedure.
  8. Illanatol
    Illanatol 17 September 2022 09: 13
    +3
    Quote: Coward
    Judging by the pictures, the blow was delivered from the right. It turns out that Jesus was a mirror image.



    Don't judge by pictures. The text indicates that the blow was between the 4th and 5th ribs (and even the pleura passed), and in the picture - generally above the chest.
    By the way, a right hand can hit the heart if the shaft and tip pass between the ribs.
  9. Illanatol
    Illanatol 17 September 2022 09: 17
    +5
    Quote: depressant
    Strange ...
    I always knew from various sources that Longinus struck Christ in the liver. Just to see if he's still alive. They say that this is how the crucified were tested. Splashes of blood - alive.


    There are different versions. For example, that Longinus struck with a spear out of sympathy, giving Christ a quick and less painful death. On the cross, victims could suffer for long periods, hours or even days, dying of dehydration.
    It was an act of mercy that endowed the spear with magical power ...
    1. depressant
      depressant 17 September 2022 10: 16
      +2
      Fully agree. That is why I say that Longinus initiated the era of mercy. Although, probably, there were others before Longinus. But they did not come across Jesus on the cross.
  10. north 2
    north 2 17 September 2022 09: 59
    +4
    In the Gospel of John there is no mention of the specific name of the soldier who pierced Christ with a spear. In the gospel of John there are several references to the secret disciple of Jesus Christ, Nicodemus. But it was in the Gospel of Nicodemus that the name of the soldier who pierced Christ-Login with a spear was first mentioned. And in the Gospel of John there is only a mention that ... one of the soldiers pierced His ribs and immediately blood and water flowed out ...
    But it is interesting that in the ancient Greek language in which the Gospel of John is written, a long spear or a long spearhead or a tall man, I don’t remember exactly, is written with the word "login". So, perhaps this is not the name of the centurion, but only his nickname. By the time the Gospel of John was written, perhaps the nickname of the soldier was not yet "patented", because in the Gospel of John he is mentioned as one of the soldiers. But in the Gospel of Nicodemus, which was written much later, the nickname of the centurion was already turned into his name by the people, and Nicodemus for the first time mentioned the name of the centurion who pierced Christ the centurion Login with a spear ...
    But that's just my guess..
    And more. Login's spear is more like a pike. What is so familiar in Russia. So maybe we should call it Login's peak?
    And thanks to the author for a great article.
    1. depressant
      depressant 17 September 2022 10: 21
      +2
      Very interesting, thanks!
      And I join in gratitude to Vyacheslav Olegovich for the article that is most relevant today.
      Mercy, its aspects, whom and to whom?
      Hmmm ...
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 10: 31
      +3
      Thanks for the detailed comment, but I do not agree with the thesis about the peak.
      The artifact apparently really was originally an ordinary "winged spear" of the Franks.

      Winged spear - replica.

      The tip of the Cossack lance.
    3. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 17 September 2022 11: 34
      +4
      Quote: north 2
      Login's spear is more like a pike. What is so familiar in Russia.

      Are you looking for a "Russian trace"? smile

      Petrov and Boshirov?
      laughing
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 17 September 2022 13: 36
        +6

        Petrov and Boshirov?


        Nothing without them. laughing

  11. depressant
    depressant 17 September 2022 11: 14
    0
    In general, the ability of a person, by no means devoid of reason, to believe in miracles is amazing. For example, to believe in the durability of the spear that fell into the hands of Longinus. It is believed that by this time he, the spear, was already one and a half thousand years old, it was already the Spear of Destiny! But listen... Whatever kind of wood, the hilt from it is one and a half thousand years old? And they believed! Though Napoleon, even Hitler. And they chased him not because Christ was pierced with a spear, but because it gave victory already in the pre-Christian era.
    And they believed in such a way that if they lost or did not acquire a spear, they lost their fate.
    Although, maybe the shaft has changed. The strength is in the tip. But even here - for fifteen hundred years it has not been lost, not broken, entrusted to a simple legionnaire ... How is it?
    In general, be afraid of the Spear of Destiny! Get caught - do not take it in your hands wassat )))
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 17 September 2022 18: 27
      +2
      In general, the ability of a person, by no means devoid of reason, to believe in miracles is amazing.
      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, the need for a miracle is inherent in human nature itself. Without miracles it is somehow uncomfortable to live. There is, however, one method to increase the number of miracles - do not study physics at school, and your whole life will be full of miracles and magic.
      1. dauria
        dauria 18 September 2022 23: 51
        0
        There is, however, one method to increase the number of miracles - do not study physics at school

        Watch the channel "Galaxy" - and you will immediately understand that knowledge of physics increases the number of miracles, and does not reduce. Nature is much more than any fantasy.
        And if a physicist unconditionally believes in the postulates of even the most recognized theory - this is no longer a physicist, he is no better than a churchman.
  12. bandabas
    bandabas 17 September 2022 13: 25
    +3
    How much is opium for the people? They have been feeding for 2 millennia.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2022 19: 01
      +1
      Quote: bandabas
      How much is opium for the people? They have been feeding for 2 millennia.

      Probably two orders of magnitude older! The inexplicable has always been present in human society and throughout mankind has always remained a tool. Well, at least there is no need to argue which came first - the chicken or the egg.
  13. lisikat2
    lisikat2 17 September 2022 15: 46
    +1
    Good afternoon everyone. Vyacheslav Olegovich that the spear has nothing to do with Christ can be logically explained.
    Suppose Longvin really believed and he was not executed. Sometimes miracles happen miracles: they forgot to execute or he kept silent. At that time, he did not yet know that it would be a shrine, which means that he used it for its intended purpose, and the spear could be broken or lost.
    If he was executed, and the Bible says so: by order of Pilate, they cut off his head ..
    The spear could have been completely lost
    П
    С
    I read that is correct :Login
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2022 17: 37
      0
      Quote from lisikat2
      I read that is correct :Login

      I dont know...
  14. Romanovski
    Romanovski 17 September 2022 16: 41
    +1
    """....finally, the so-called "Armenian spear", which is also a shrine, but which certainly could not be worn by any Roman of the era of Jesus Christ...."".
    -------
    The author is mistaken .... At the time of Christ, the Romans had different spears, i.e. - combat and ceremonial ... The Spear that is stored in Etchmiadzin (Armenia) - exactly corresponds to the front Roman spear of that time ....
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2022 17: 36
      0
      Quote from Romanovski
      exactly corresponds to the front Roman spear of that time ....

      Show me at least one miniature or bas-relief of that time, where the Romans would have a similar spear or a description of it from Roman historians.
      1. Romanovski
        Romanovski 17 September 2022 20: 13
        +1
        The Armenian spear is the most mysterious, only the elite have seen it. It is hidden in the treasury of the Etchmiadzin Monastery (new name Vagharshapat) - the residence of the Catholicos of the Armenian Apostolic Church since the 15th century. Prior to this, the spear was in Geghardavank (literally translated from Armenian - the Monastery of the spear). The spear, called in the Armenian tradition "Saint Geghard", is a pointed flat triangular stabbing object XNUMX centimeters long. Imposed on a shaft, the spear served as a weapon of destruction.

        According to an ancient legend, the Spear of Destiny, with which the centurion Longinus hit Christ crucified on the cross, thereby interrupting his earthly path, was brought to Armenia in the 33 (34) year of the new era by the apostle Thaddeus, who later became the founder of the first Christian community in the Syrian city of Edessa .

        From century to century, bypassing almost all the Christian communities of ancient Armenia, this shrine passed from one righteous hand to another, until, with the advent of the teachings of Christ as a state religion in 301, it found eternal refuge in the storehouse of the patriarchal chambers. On major church holidays, the Spear was taken out to the people and blessed by them in deliverance from misfortunes and wars.

        In addition to historical studies confirming that the Roman centurion legionnaires used exactly such forms of spears, another proof that the wound of Jesus Christ was inflicted by this spear is the Shroud of Turin.

        In 2010, British scientists examining the Shroud of Turin found a trace of a wound on the body print, similar to that described in the Gospel. This wound was inflicted by a special kind of spear, which was in the service of the heavily armed legionaries of the Roman garrisons throughout the Empire. When comparing the wound imprint on the Shroud of Turin and the Spear of Longinus in Armenia, according to the Armenian media, experts established a correspondence not only between the type of the wound and the spear, but also the size - in both cases it was 4,5 centimeters. In other words, the size of the inflicted wound fully corresponds to the size of the spear kept in Etchmiadzin.

        And one more mystery of the Armenian spear - nowhere else has a tip of this form been found by archaeologists. And we know that, according to legend, Phinehas forged a unique, magical spear-symbol, perhaps that is why it is so different from all other spears and does not look like a military weapon, because the purpose of the Spear of Destiny was much wider than the banal killing of an enemy on the battlefield by brute force. physical strength. The Spear of Destiny is primarily a spiritual symbol, a symbol of the faith of the people, which is stronger than the sharpest blade and capable of working miracles.

        Armenian believers claim that British scientists have proved that only the Armenian spear is real and belongs to the XNUMXst century AD.

        Well, despite the attempts of historians and scientists to establish the truth, the Spear of Destiny continues to keep its secrets. I also note that in the worship of the Orthodox Church, a spear is used - a double-edged knife for removing particles from prosphora, which symbolizes the spear of Longinus.
      2. Romanovski
        Romanovski 17 September 2022 20: 40
        +1
        According to other connoisseurs of ancient weapons, the fatal blow could not have been inflicted by the long and heavy Roman spear of an infantryman (“hasta”) or a cavalryman’s spear - “pilum”. This is a trace of a spear of the “longhe” type, used by legionnaires of military garrisons.
        As is known from the Gospel, the soldiers who carried out the execution were legionnaires.
        The spear, which is kept in Etchmiadzin, exactly corresponds to the size of the wound. Later, a cross was riveted on its tip. But this is a weapon that was forged even before the execution of Christ!
        …”The Spear of Longinus” has been kept on Armenian soil since the 301rd century, says Bishop Ezras. – Let me remind you that Armenia is the first state in the world where the Christian religion became the state religion back in XNUMX. Echmiadzin in translation from Armenian means “Place of the descent of the Only Begotten” – it is believed that we had the second appearance of Jesus Christ. The Armenian Church is aware of its mission as the guardian of the greatest Christian shrine. Our people have always and at all times been faithful to Christ.”
        In his interview with the BBC film crew, Catholicos Garegin II confirmed the authenticity of the spear, whose history can be traced back to Golgotha ​​itself, where the blood of the Savior was shed.
        Until the XNUMXth century, it was kept in the monastery of Geghardavank, in translation it means “monastery of the spear”. Then the relic was transferred to the temple in Etchmiadzin. The monks cherish it as the greatest treasure. By praying near him, believers, they say, are healed. But not once did the relic fall into the hands of villains who wanted to enslave humanity. After all, the Holy Lance is the key to the world...
        Grigory Telnov,
        Moscow newspaper
        "Life"
        1. kalibr
          18 September 2022 12: 27
          0
          Quote from Romanovski
          spear of a cavalryman - "pilum"

          Since when did the pilum become the spear of a cavalryman?
        2. Nephilim
          Nephilim 18 September 2022 15: 10
          -1
          According to other connoisseurs of ancient weapons, the fatal blow could not have been inflicted by the long and heavy Roman spear of an infantryman (“hasta”) or a cavalryman’s spear - “pilum”.

          Well, if for you individuals carrying such nonsense are connoisseurs ... What do you think - is the Earth round or flat?
          1. Romanovski
            Romanovski 18 September 2022 17: 43
            0
            But it’s not worth scoffing, because we are discussing and everyone has the right to express their opinion. And I understand that you are the director of an institute called "Ultimate Truth" ?? And the question about flat earth - ask the punks from the gateway ...
            1. Nephilim
              Nephilim 18 September 2022 17: 52
              0
              everyone has the right to express their opinion

              Well, here I am, my opinion on your comment and stated in accordance with the right of everyone. What's wrong?
              1. Romanovski
                Romanovski 18 September 2022 18: 15
                0
                What's wrong? And the fact that it is for you and for some reason - I want the conclusions of scientists about the Spear from Armenia - to be "nonsense" ...
                1. Nephilim
                  Nephilim 18 September 2022 18: 20
                  0
                  Strangely, there is not a word in my comment about scientists and their conclusions regarding the Armenian spear. It deals exclusively with the classification of Roman copies. Name the scientist who attributes the pilum to cavalry spears, preferably with a link to the publication. Can you?
                  1. Romanovski
                    Romanovski 18 September 2022 19: 30
                    0
                    Pilum - (lat. pilum, pl. pila) - a throwing spear, which was in service with the legions of Ancient Rome. Marius made the pilum a necessary part of the armament of EVERY (!) Roman legionnaire. In hand-to-hand combat (as a regular spear), the pilum was not used. Although in the battle of Pharsalus, on the orders of Caesar, the infantry against Pompey's cavalry used the original battle tactics: the infantrymen used the pilum as an ordinary spear, stabbed horses and riders with it.

                    https://warriors.fandom.com/ru/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%BC
                    ------------
                    It is mainly (!) Used by infantrymen, and during the period of the existence of the Republican army (end of the 27th century BC - 100 BC) it was used by a certain type of troops - lightly armed velites and heavy infantry hastai. Around XNUMX B.C. commander Mariy introduces a pilum as part of the armament of EVERYONE (! .. including cavalry)
                    legionnaire.
                    https://vk.com/@istoriyarima-pilum-metatelnoe-kope
                    1. Nephilim
                      Nephilim 18 September 2022 21: 38
                      0
                      You see, I asked for a link to the publication of scientists, that is, a source that is trustworthy. You are offering me some sort of information dump with your own conclusions. If you want to discuss at a normal level, start using normal sources accepted in scientific circles.


                      Are you familiar with these books?
                      1. Romanovski
                        Romanovski 19 September 2022 09: 26
                        -1
                        "" "
                        ..If you want to discuss at a normal level, start using normal sources accepted in scientific circles..."".
                        -----
                        You want to say that everything that is on the Web = info. dump??? You are also mistaken ... And the phrase "accepted in scientific circles" is also not the ultimate truth and the history of world science--
                        very often confirms this.
                      2. Nephilim
                        Nephilim 19 September 2022 12: 16
                        0
                        Not all. But your source is unambiguous.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. The comment was deleted.
          2. Romanovski
            Romanovski 18 September 2022 18: 09
            0
            Nonsense? But there is no need to scoff, since we are here culturally discussing the secrets of mankind. And you are probably the director of the state. Institute called ""Truth in the last instance""??? And the question about flat earth - ask some punks from your gateway ...
            1. Nephilim
              Nephilim 18 September 2022 18: 13
              0
              I don't have a gateway nearby, unfortunately. And why did you decide that the punks would be interested in this question - was there any experience?
      3. Romanovski
        Romanovski 17 September 2022 21: 02
        0
        http://aramenfi.ru/ararat_chalice6.html
        But read this article ..... They even tell how the Armenian Apostolic Church gave a particle of the Spear to the Russian Orthodox Church ...
      4. Romanovski
        Romanovski 17 September 2022 21: 18
        0
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGMfmaxibEg
        WATCH CAREFULLY from 4.48 minutes to the end....
      5. Romanovski
        Romanovski 17 September 2022 21: 39
        +1
        And look at this at your leisure (does not apply to the Spear ..) ..
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54GQ5ARHyUI
      6. Romanovski
        Romanovski 17 September 2022 21: 54
        0
        https://www.tourister.ru/responses/id_23145
        -----------
        """... The same researchers also proved that the spear kept in Armenia since the 3rd century is authentic. Until the 13th century, the relic was kept in the Geghardavank monastery, the name of which is translated as, "monastery of the spear", and then she was transferred to the temple in Etchmiadzin and is still there, to which I am a living witness ....."
        1. kalibr
          18 September 2022 12: 29
          0
          Novel! I wrote that it is not genuine. I wrote that THERE IS NO IMAGE OF SUCH A TIP ON ANY OF THE MONUMENTS OF THE ROMAN EPOCH. You yourself wrote that such tips are NOT FOUND. How is it known that this is a typical Roman tip, and even guards?
    2. kalibr
      18 September 2022 12: 31
      0
      Quote from Romanovski
      exactly corresponds to the front Roman spear of that time ....

      How is this known? Source?
  15. Nord11
    Nord11 17 September 2022 23: 43
    +2
    In religion, the authenticity of artifacts and shrines does not matter. Her motto: "Do not philosophize, but believe."
    1. kalibr
      18 September 2022 12: 30
      0
      Quote: Nord11
      In religion, the authenticity of artifacts and shrines does not matter. Her motto: "Do not philosophize, but believe."

      Exactly! "It's absurd - that's why I believe!" - Thomas Aquinas
  16. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 20 September 2022 07: 58
    0
    From all of the above, one thing is clear - the spear is quite ancient.
    Well, of course) Everything is completely clear to the historian)) True
    The steel tip is actually not a whole, which is why, by the way, it looks so strange and looks, but consists of two parts fastened together with silver wire
    this is a little unclear to a metallurgist, engineer ... in general, an intelligent person.
    Because silver and steel form the so-called. invalid galvanic couple. And if the tip were ancient, no preservatives known in history (which were not applied to the spear) could keep it intact. But what can some despicable electrochemistry oppose to a bunch of stupid chatter, accepted by historians as "scientifically reliable sources"! Never mind!
    The triumph of "science"! Ugh...