Military Review

AUV "Dagon" - non-nuclear heir to "Poseidon", the destroyer of naval bases and coastal infrastructure

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AUV "Dagon" - non-nuclear heir to "Poseidon", the destroyer of naval bases and coastal infrastructure



"Poseidon" and its technologies


"Poseidon" - strategic weapon a new type, autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicle (AUV) torpedo, with an unlimited range of underwater travel, with a nuclear engine, with a nuclear warhead of increased power. Since its inception, this complex has caused a lot of controversy, and the positions of the parties in this case can be diametrically opposed - from delight to complete rejection. However, discussing the feasibility of creating and deploying the Poseidons in their current form is not the purpose of this article, and there is not much point in this, since the Poseidon has almost become a reality. In any case, Poseidon is a weapon of strategic nuclear deterrence, the use of which would mean the beginning (continuation, end?) of a global nuclear war.


AUV "Poseidon" (Status-6). Image by wikipedia.org

Is there any expediency in creating a Poseidon with a conventional warhead, or another kamikaze AUV using Poseidon technology?

In the material "Operation Baltic Ballet" the possibility of destroying naval bases (Navy), ports and coastal industrial facilities with the help of civilian ships turned into floating conventional munitions of increased power, actually comparable in terms of TNT equivalent to tactical nuclear munitions, was considered.

By the way, in the comments to the above material, an opinion was expressed that such a method of armed struggle could be considered an act of terrorism. In this connection, the question arises, since when is the destruction of naval bases, ports and industrial infrastructure of the enemy considered terrorism? Maybe the bombing of factories, fuel storage facilities of Nazi Germany is also terrorism?

Will civilians die? Of course, civilians will die, and even cats and dogs, and this is very sad, but what alternative do we have? It is one thing to bring a dry cargo ship loaded with thousands of tons of explosives to a deliberately peaceful coastal city without industry and blow it up - this is really terrorism. Another thing is if it is a naval base or a fuel hub of the enemy, but the fact that they are adjacent to the city - well, this is the horrors of war.

For example, when Poland pumps weapons and ammunition to Ukraine, its population does not protest, but even supports its government - they do not care that cities and villages are being fired from the artillery and multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) supplied to the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), in which there is no Russian armed forces. One can only imagine what kind of bloodbath the Ukronazis will arrange in the LPR and DPR, in the Crimea, if they win, and after all, no one in the US and Europe will even utter a word about terrorism or genocide. So should we shed tears about the possible "collateral losses" of Poland and other states openly hostile to us?


However, back to the technical part of the question.

In the existing overall restrictions, the AUV cannot carry a conventional warhead capable of inflicting significant damage to the naval base or coastal infrastructure. But it is not necessary to use the Poseidon itself and the carriers for it. Earlier, we have already talked about how the technologies implemented in the Poseidon AUV can be applied to solve other problems.

For example, in the article “Nuclear reactor for nuclear submarines. Will Poseidon lay Dollezhal's egg? considered the possibility of using developments in creating an energy source for the Poseidon AUV to create a small-sized nuclear reactor for promising small-sized submarines - nuclear submarines in the dimensions of diesel-electric submarines (DEPL), which could massively saturate the Russian navy ( Navy).

However, Poseidon hides not only the latest technologies for the construction of small-sized nuclear reactors - no less interesting is its control system, capable of navigating and controlling AUVs in the water column, presumably ensuring high accuracy of the route at intercontinental distances.

Judging by the fact that, in addition to the Poseidon, the Russian military-industrial complex (MIC) is developing a number of AUVs for various purposes, Russia has some success in creating autonomous systems for navigation and control of underwater vehicles.

The question remains: this navigation and control system can be installed on what carrier that has sufficient dimensions to accommodate a conventional warhead comparable in its equivalent to a tactical nuclear charge?

From diesel-electric submarine to AUV


As a possible "donor" can be considered diesel-electric submarines (diesel-electric submarines), whose service life is nearing completion - usually such submarines (submarines) are either sent to the reserve or scrapped. In the Russian Navy, these will most likely be Project 877/636 diesel-electric submarines.

Let's designate a promising ANPK "kamikaze" with a conventional warhead, comparable in its power to a tactical nuclear weapon, as "Dagon".


Diesel-electric submarine of project 636 (left) and dismantling of the cabin in the process of transformation into AUV "Dagon" (right)...
(... of course, this is not so, just the performance of work on the Magadan diesel-electric submarine). Image by wikipedia.org

The transformation of a diesel-electric submarine into a shock ANPK "kamikaze" will require significant changes in its design. First of all, it is necessary to dismantle and remove all equipment that provides control of the submarine crew, life support systems, torpedo tubes and racks for torpedoes, a diesel generator and fuel tanks for it, batteries, a periscope, a snorkel and much more, it may be advisable to completely dismantle felling - this will reduce underwater resistance and acoustic visibility of the future Dagon AUV.

In fact, only the hull, electric motors, gearboxes and controls with the corresponding lines, as well as the technological equipment necessary for their operation, will remain from the diesel-electric submarine. And in return, the diesel-electric submarine-ANPA "Dagon" will need to be equipped with a source of electricity that determines the power reserve, and a powerful conventional warhead.


Profile of the AUV "Dagon", made on the basis of diesel-electric submarines of projects 877/636

What can be the range of an underwater AUV that uses a power source without the possibility of recharging? As a starting point, the latest Japanese Soryu-class non-nuclear submarines equipped with lithium batteries can be considered. According to open data, the range of their underwater movement can exceed 10 (!) Kilometers.


Soryu-class non-nuclear submarine. Image by wikipedia.org

Since we have a “one-time” AUV, it is also advisable to use a single-use source of electricity, and several options can be considered.

Seawater-activated batteries used in domestic electric torpedoes can hardly be considered the best solution - according to open data, they have low efficiency. In addition, the use of sea water makes their characteristics unstable (there is a dependence of their characteristics on the salinity of sea water, which is not the same in different parts of the World Ocean).

Lithium batteries can be considered a better option - batteries, not batteries (they are often confused). The specific capacity of modern lithium batteries is about 265 W * h / kg, while for lithium-manganese dioxide batteries (Li-MnO2) it is up to 280 W * h / kg, lithium-disulfide iron batteries (Li-FeS2) - up to 300 W*h/kg, for lithium sulfur dioxide batteries (Li-SO2) up to 330 W*h/kg, and for lithium-thionyl chloride batteries (Li-SOCl2) up to 600 W*h/kg.

The self-discharge of lithium batteries is approximately 1-2% per year, i.e. equipped products can be stored for years with minimal loss of range. The temperature range of lithium batteries is also much higher than that of rechargeable batteries - in some types, the minimum use temperature reaches minus 80 degrees Celsius.


The Russian enterprise Lithium-Element JSC produces lithium-manganese dioxide (Li-MnO2) and lithium-thionyl chloride (Li-SOCl2) industrial batteries. Image lithium-element.ru

As an alternative, the use of an air independent power plant (VNEU), for example, based on fuel cells, can be considered. Its development for Russian non-nuclear submarines is stalling, the question is, what is the reason for the delay? If this is a small resource or limited power, then this is not critical for a one-time AUV.

And yet, lithium batteries are expected to be the best option in terms of a combination of parameters such as service life, need for maintenance, and specific energy intensity.

The ratio of the volumes occupied by lithium batteries and the warhead will determine the range of the AUV and the explosive power of the warhead in TNT equivalent.

The assembly of lithium batteries and the warhead can be made in a modular version, thus, by varying the number of battery and warhead sections in the manufacturing process, it is possible to change the ratio of the AUV range and the power of its warhead. Taking into account the high specific capacity of lithium batteries, as well as dismantled equipment and structural elements of diesel-electric submarines, for an AUV range of about ten thousand kilometers, presumably, a warhead power of 1–1,5 kilotons of TNT equivalent can be achieved.

Goals and objectives, tactics of application


For what tasks can the kamikaze AUV be used? What targets to hit?

First of all, objects of coastal infrastructure can be selected as targets, for example, terminals for receiving liquefied gas, coastal gas distribution hubs, ports for receiving and pumping oil products, oil platforms, underwater sections of gas and oil pipelines.

For example, in the event that the conflict between Russia and the countries of Europe enters the hot phase, with the help of the AUV "Dagon" it would be possible to degas Europe - to destroy most of the routes for supplying European countries with pipeline and liquefied gas, and at the same time with oil products, making PJSC Gazprom video about freezing European cities reality. It will be extremely difficult for European countries to ensure the protection of not only naval bases, but also civilian ports, as well as coastal industrial facilities, especially since one successful AUV penetration into the affected area will be enough to destroy them.


There are about 30 LNG terminals throughout Europe. Image by wikipedia.org

Another option is the destruction of enemy combat and auxiliary ships stationed in the naval base. The benefits of fighting fleet enemy by destroying ships and submarines in their bases were previously discussed in the material "Goals and objectives of the Russian Navy: destroy half of the enemy's fleet".

With dense placement, one kamikaze AUV can destroy and / or damage dozens of ships and submarines. This task is more difficult, since naval bases can be well guarded, and approaches can be mined. But even here there are options, for example, a sequential attack on the naval base by two or three kamikaze AUVs.


Half a dozen AUVs "Dagon" could potentially permanently deprive the UK of the title of sea power

At the same time, the possibility of attacking the AUV "Dagon" of enemy ships on the high seas is under a big question - how accurately will it be possible to bring the AUV to the ship's strike group (KUG) of the enemy and will it be possible to withdraw it at all before it is detected and destroyed? What effect will an underwater / surface explosion with a power of 1-1,5 kilotons produce?

Even within the framework of the Russian special operation in Ukraine, the Dagon AUV can find application, although this is an extremely specific battlefield for the kamikaze AUV. For example, the bridge across the Dniester estuary, it seems that it was disabled after repeated strikes with high-precision weapons, but the author does not have unequivocal information on this matter. And one AUV "kamikaze" could inflict such damage, after which it would not be possible to restore the bridge across the Dniester Estuary in the foreseeable future.


The bridge across the Dniester estuary (left) and the result of a strike on it with high-precision weapons (right) - after the explosion of the Dagon AUV, the bridge would have to be rebuilt

Or take at least the fuss with Snake Island, how much equipment was lost, how much trouble it was? It would be possible simply to give the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) the opportunity to gain a foothold on it better, to simulate several attempts to capture, to give the opportunity to strengthen the defense. And then, the explosion of one kiloton of TNT would not have left stone unturned on this island. The military effect would not be very great, but the psychological one is huge.

Conclusions


AUV "Dagon" is a very specific weapon system, as in the case of AUV "Poseidon", it simply has no direct analogues, and, accordingly, there is neither experience nor proven tactics for its use.

AUV "Dagon" is not a weapon of mass production, at least not immediately - first you need to understand how difficult it will be to implement and effective in use.

First of all, the very fact of using a conventional warhead, comparable in terms of TNT equivalent to a tactical nuclear weapon, is of interest - there have not yet been precedents for the deliberate use of weapons of such destructive power.

On the other hand, the fact that the deployment of an AUV of the conditional Dagon project with a conventional warhead comparable in its power to tactical nuclear weapons cannot be ruled out, it can become a serious deterrent for our potential and real opponents, who must understand that, in unlike nuclear weapons, there are no deterrents for the non-use of the Dagon AUV, which means that their military and industrial facilities can really become targets for such weapons.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 15 September 2022 05: 16
    +6
    Kiloton is an argument! However, the developed PLO of a potential adversary is also an argument.

    ship strike group (KUG) of the enemy and will it be possible to withdraw at all before it is discovered and destroyed? What effect will an underwater / surface explosion with a power of 1-1,5 kilotons produce?
    A very limited action against the warrant, tests and more powerful nuclear warheads showed decent durability of the ships.
    1. SKVichyakow
      SKVichyakow 15 September 2022 11: 55
      +7
      1-1.5 kilotons, this is approximately the power of a 152mm artillery shell in special equipment. And then, there will be, I think 3-5 kt. power. This is a tactical nuclear weapon. Why make nonsense?
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 15 September 2022 16: 17
        +1
        Quote: SKVichyakow
        1-1.5 kilotons, this is approximately the power of a 152mm artillery shell in special equipment. And then, there will be, I think 3-5 kt. power.

        Plus light and EM pulse.
        Quote: SKVichyakow
        Why make nonsense?
        Well, the author wanted to, in the end, throwing in ideas for discussion is a good way to reveal the pros and cons, and the very possibility.
        A kiloton is still an argument. After all, not a 6-inch was left in the fleet, and they could not be delivered covertly for several thousand kilometers.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 16 September 2022 00: 07
          +4
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          the author wanted to, in the end, throwing in ideas for discussion is a good way to reveal the pros and cons, and the very possibility.

          The author generally always reasonably considered problems. But not at this time. And that's why:
          - Dagon's dimensions do not allow him to "hide" from low-frequency searches for underwater "non-radiating" objects;
          - all naval bases are covered by stationary and mobile passive and active systems of low-frequency sonar detection and maneuverable PLS of the basing area;
          - Amer's KUG / KPUG / AUS have an in-depth mobile anti-aircraft defense system, including aviation, surface and underwater components;
          - Poseidon breaks through to the target due to the high speed of the underwater course, 1 km depth of immersion, relatively small (compared to the "carcass" of the DPL pr.636) g / a section of the hull, low level of accompanying fields;
          Dragon has none of this! Therefore: idea = empty flower!
          IMHO.
  2. VicktorVR
    VicktorVR 15 September 2022 05: 32
    +14
    Question price?
    The transformation of a "rotten" hull into an anpa, which should stand on combat duty for 10 years?

    Maybe for this money it can be modernized / capitalized and returned to service / sold to the Papuans?

    The declared advantage of Poseidon is a covert approach (including at great depths) and a "throw" at high speed, i.e. the probability of detection and interception is very small.
    Where and how can the former dapl sneak up, and with what speed "rush"?
  3. Victor_B
    Victor_B 15 September 2022 05: 34
    +10
    Yeah!
    The flight of thought is normal ...
    And nothing fancy.
    But where to get so many decommissioned submarines?
    And it's cheaper to build a new building than to "gouge out" an old one.
    1. Romario_Argo
      Romario_Argo 15 September 2022 13: 35
      +2
      Poseidon is enough - everything can be applied with him too
      for example, the nuclear blackmail of England
      Poseidon could surface in London on the Thames - like it's an emergency resurfacing
      you can’t move it, you can’t clear it either - there will be an explosion of 50 MT
      we will have to send a Kilector or an Arms Transport with special equipment, a friend or foe defendant - and pick up Poseidon
      how long will it take - a month (!)
      - during this time, half of England will be evacuated to the EU
      - during this time, we can return the frozen $ 300 billion
  4. white fall
    white fall 15 September 2022 05: 36
    +13
    Again, the author proposes to make a child prodigy out of guano and sticks. You can’t make candy out of trash - why remake a substrate from an old diesel engine so that it would drag a bunch of ballast and spend a bunch of resources on unnecessary cargo and a so-so payload, having the size of an ordinary submarine. If we are to make drones, then how is Poseidon a relatively small device that is difficult to detect and carries destructive power in itself, and not ten tons of explosives
  5. NDR-791
    NDR-791 15 September 2022 05: 57
    +3
    unlike nuclear weapons, there are no deterrents for the non-use of the Dagon AUV, which means that their military and industrial facilities can really become targets for such weapons.

    We have, as it were, no restraining factors for a lot of things, but one thing - "political will" always remains. And what is the price of such Dagons at the same time ??? So-and-so.
  6. Kim
    Kim 15 September 2022 06: 04
    +2
    everything that is written is already a variant of war
    whether it will be conventional or not is not so important
    I'm afraid that it will eventually come to nuclear weapons anyway
    so maybe start with that?
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 15 September 2022 07: 00
      0
      Quote from kim
      everything that is written is already a variant of war
      whether it will be conventional or not is not so important
      I'm afraid that it will eventually come to nuclear weapons anyway
      so maybe start with that?


      The rule “do not lower the degree” has not yet been canceled.
      1. Kim
        Kim 15 September 2022 07: 06
        +5
        calmly washed down / layered a delicious drink with tea, or even beer
        normally
        m.b., I'm so unique, I don't know
        1. AlexSam
          AlexSam 15 September 2022 10: 01
          +1
          in general, between the fifth and sixth (or seventh and eighth, the options depend on the appetite that comes at the time) to drink a cup of hot strong tea, maybe even with a slice of lemon or a piece of chocolate - a very good topic! the main thing is the presence of sincere company and common topics for conversation)
          1. Kim
            Kim 15 September 2022 10: 27
            0
            about !
            It's nice to talk to someone who understands :)
            ZY, finished drinking in February 2015, so now - only theoretically
  7. Wildcat
    Wildcat 15 September 2022 06: 04
    +15
    Taking into account the high specific capacity of lithium batteries, as well as dismantled equipment and structural elements of diesel-electric submarines, for an AUV range of about ten thousand kilometers, presumably, a warhead power of 1–1,5 kilotons of TNT equivalent can be achieved.

    That is, if you put batteries in the conditional project 636, which are not there and a thousand and a half tons of explosives, into a ship with a surface displacement of 2350 tons ...

    I can’t understand if this author’s articles are a continuous joke from the editors of VO, or does no one read them at all before publication for at least some coincidence with reality?
  8. Fenix844
    Fenix844 15 September 2022 06: 27
    +3
    Wow Dagon...
    Someone in KB was into Lovecraft?
  9. U-58
    U-58 15 September 2022 06: 37
    +3
    I don't understand the author.
    What kind of explosive placed in the case, let's say, of a "happy Pike" can bang with an equivalent of a 1 Kt ?. Perhaps I have lagged behind modern trends in this area. The community will enlighten.
    And about EU.
    The author does not want to put a nuclear control system on such devices. It is understandable.
    So that the cannon, when hitting the sparrows, was not so expensive.
    And then: the destruction of the reactor during combat use will (in part) make such a ship a "dirty bomb".
    But the author did not really outline the goals for conventional weapons. Is the game worth the candle?
  10. Eugene 1475
    Eugene 1475 15 September 2022 06: 39
    +8
    Another prodigy. Again, they blow in our ears.
    1. Yngvar
      Yngvar 15 September 2022 12: 20
      +1
      Reminds me of a joke about how tonsils are removed through the anus ...
  11. yuriy55
    yuriy55 15 September 2022 06: 55
    -5
    IMHO (!!!)
    The article deserves attention, a positive assessment and a detailed answer.
    First of all, about Poseidon. Most likely, this weapon, created by Russian scientists and designers, will NEVER be used by Russia against anyone. Moreover, we will never know about its hypothetical application. The mythological name suggests the possibility of its mythical application. But this is not enough for us, and now the outline of a certain “Dagon” has been outlined.
    Dagon - Demon of the second order. Chief Baker at the infernal court (I. Wier "De Praestigius Daemonum"). In ancient times, Dagon is known as a Western Semitic deity ... Dagon is the supreme deity, the god of war. The Bible (1 Samuel 5, 2-7) describes that when the Philistines captured the ark from the Israelites, they placed it in the temple of Dagon in Ashdod. But the power of the ark threw off the image of Dagon and it fell apart.

    And this mythological name AGAIN suggests some specifics of the use of such weapons, not to mention the different nuances of creation based on the use of old diesel-electric submarines. What the author mentions directly:
    AUV "Dagon" is a very specific weapon system, as in the case of AUV "Poseidon", it simply has no direct analogues, and, accordingly, there is neither experience nor proven tactics for its use.

    You can also come up with something else, like:

    And a quatrain came to my mind:
    But we make rockets
    And they blocked the Yenisei,
    And also in the field of ballet
    We are ahead of the rest!

    So, we were ahead of the rest, and in thirty years we dropped to 55th place. We decided to conduct a preventive air defense system, and in fact it turned out that we have problems with UAVs for various purposes, long-range self-propelled guns, there is no line of cheap tactical missiles (MLRS) of high accuracy with a range of up to 300 km, various other weapons, equipment, instruments and items of equipment (including EVEN individual first aid kits) and a lot of things that are required today and now.
    Where does this “Kremlin daydreaming” come from? Why don't the realities of today hammer into our heads thoughts about self-preservation (at least) in the real time period of history?
    *****
    And so, everything is a bundle! good fellow
  12. sergo1914
    sergo1914 15 September 2022 06: 58
    0
    . promising small submarines - nuclear submarines in the dimensions of diesel-electric submarines (DEPL), which could massively saturate the Russian Navy (Navy).


    Have we now lived up to the “wolf packs”? Did I understand everything correctly?
  13. Galleon
    Galleon 15 September 2022 07: 09
    +14
    Editors, in my opinion, should not publish this article, but call the author, ask about his health, come in, help calm down, call the author a doctor, finally. Otherwise, he’s a poor fellow, hastily photoshopped Varshavyanka (even didn’t remove emergency buoys), loaded a thousand tons of TNT into it and sent it ... Where can you find a navigation and traffic control system for it, dear? There, everything is done with pens and sailor heads!
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 15 September 2022 10: 25
      +6
      Quote: Galleon
      Editors, in my opinion, should not publish this article, but call the author, ask about his health, come in, help calm down, call the author a doctor, finally ...

      There was another science fiction writer, but the editorial staff, albeit not immediately, refused the services of the delusional Damantsev. Maybe this author will understand?
  14. paul3390
    paul3390 15 September 2022 07: 19
    +2
    Why so difficult? For example, in one of the opuses about an alternative reality - a nemchura arranges sabotage in the Suez Canal by flooding a dry cargo ship with cement in it .. If we also stuff reinforcement into the holds, we get a monolithic reinforced concrete block of several thousand tons that clogs the channel tightly. And - that's it, world trade has risen for a while, until such crap can be picked up. And if you plant the same one at the same time also in Panama ..
  15. staer-62
    staer-62 15 September 2022 10: 18
    -2
    Maybe nuclear weapons are better right away? We can’t baptize children with them, they have been dreaming of destroying us for centuries, and the attempts were almost successful. Right now, the same thing is being destroyed on our territory and our people, because Ukraine is our territory and our people were also ours. What are we waiting for?
  16. The popuas
    The popuas 15 September 2022 10: 24
    -1
    Why for this "miracle" ... vneu ...? request
    As an alternative, the use of an air independent power plant (VNEU), for example, based on fuel cells, can be considered. Its development for Russian non-nuclear submarines is stalling, the question is, what is the reason for the delay? If this is a small resource or limited power, then for a one-time AUV this is not critical .... It is not clear ... recourse
  17. Alexander_Dneprovsky
    Alexander_Dneprovsky 15 September 2022 10: 29
    0
    Maybe it’s more relevant to develop unmanned submarines instead of AUVs?
  18. bk0010
    bk0010 15 September 2022 11: 19
    -2
    Nuclear engine and conventional warhead? Some kind of perversion ... Better on the contrary - a thermonuclear warhead and a regular engine.
  19. Vladimir Postnikov
    Vladimir Postnikov 15 September 2022 11: 27
    +1
    AUV "Dagon" - non-nuclear heir to "Poseidon", the destroyer of naval bases and coastal infrastructure

    Hmm! Poseidon has not yet "matured" (more precisely, he has not yet been born), but he already has a non-nuclear heir. "I don't understand, but the logic is there." Underwater fireman, you say? Will the enemies let you? (Submariners silently sob).
    - The land will be a blooming desert. Free horses and people will walk along it.
    - Why do people? Let alone horses be better.
    - He is a provocateur, kill him.
  20. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 15 September 2022 11: 47
    +1
    1) D O R O G O
    2) The problem of overcoming PLO boundaries
    3) The problem of long-term underwater unmanned navigation with access to the target
    4) The problem of large-scale loading of the shipbuilding industry with this task (in conditions when the shipbuilding industry already had, has, and will have a lot of tasks)

    Based on the totality of hemorrhoids, it is easier to arrange a massive volley of "Caliber".
    The very idea of ​​​​an attacking submarine UAV is a good idea, not devoid of specific practical meaning - however, one must understand that the finances of the Russian Federation in the field of broad military construction will be very limited, and therefore it is necessary to give preference to MASS, if possible, unified and budgetary solutions. At the moment, these are air-to-ground missiles, KR, OTRK. In addition, for a long time we have been gathering dust around such a product as AVBPM (the so-called "Dad of all bombs"), and is really waiting for a much more interesting form than a free-falling bomb (for example, an outdated ICBR that "pulls" this product by the mass of output (and we also have one).
  21. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 September 2022 11: 56
    0
    Underwater fireman, original, but not feasible.
    1. Hitriy Zhuk
      Hitriy Zhuk 15 September 2022 12: 26
      -1
      Isn't Poseidon it?
      Another thing is that it is better (after all, Poseidon already exists) to put something (a warhead) in the Boeing-747.
  22. Hitriy Zhuk
    Hitriy Zhuk 15 September 2022 12: 18
    -1
    So should we shed tears about the possible "collateral losses" of Poland and other states openly hostile to us?

    It is worth shedding tears that so far there (in all Poland) so far there are no losses. And it would be time.
  23. Hitriy Zhuk
    Hitriy Zhuk 15 September 2022 12: 25
    -1
    It is easier (for now "peace") to send a large ship to an objectionable port.
    Loaded with RDX or collect a huge thermal bar.
    Well, make it radio-controlled.

    The submarine has a plus only in that it is less obvious.
  24. Nephilim
    Nephilim 15 September 2022 12: 26
    +6
    A characteristic feature of the vast majority of today's VO website authors is a complete lack of knowledge in the topics they write about. But even against this background, the articles of this author stand out for their ignorance. Undertaking to create another "analogue" wunderwaffe, the author should have at least superficially taken an interest in such a concept as the breakdown of the masses. And the author would be surprised to know that by removing groups 700 and 800 from the boat, that is, the weapons and life support systems of the crew, the author would receive a maximum of 10 percent of the surface displacement. For Project 636 submarines, this is 235 tons. Where the author is going to load another 800-1000 tons to get "the power of the warhead at the level of 1-1,5 kilotons" is a mystery.
    The publication of such articles has two explanations. Firstly, the site is experiencing such a shortage of materials that it publishes everything in a row. Second, among the editors there is no one who could somehow stop the wave of illiterate publications.
    1. Popov Artyom
      Popov Artyom 21 September 2022 04: 23
      0
      And how do you imagine a working "Poseidon" where a nuclear missile should be without maintenance in a state of constant readiness for years? I'm already silent about the propulsion, which will simply go into cavitation and will not reach the declared speeds. And there is also hydrodynamic resistance, which already at 45 knots under water deforms the skin sheets.
  25. Willord
    Willord 15 September 2022 13: 22
    -3
    My personal opinion: Poseidons should float to the surface. And inflict maximum damage on the enemy and radiation and destruction. And not collapse under water. But this is purely my opinion.
  26. Maks1995
    Maks1995 15 September 2022 14: 37
    -1
    There were plenty of such projects and ideas.
    How do you like thermonuclear missiles disguised at the bottom, waiting for X hour to launch? Or camouflaged missiles in containers in container ships? Filled with interference substances in fuel tanks of airliners?

    Impossible - expensive, small-scale, unpredictable and high probability of breakdown, there are countermeasures ....

    There are old planes here, of which many have accumulated dofiga - so far they are only trying to convert them into UAVs, and only a few old submarines?
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. Anatoly_M_S
    Anatoly_M_S 15 September 2022 18: 14
    0
    Question amateur.
    Well, Poseidon or Dagon approached unnoticed to the enemy coast, and blew itself up and created a man-made tsunami. Indeed, in the aquatic environment, as I understand it, a directed explosion is difficult to make, so a direct wave will go to the coast to destroy the enemy’s naval base, and the waves in all other directions will quietly disappear? Is this counting?
    Maybe this will happen in the vastness of the Pacific Ocean, but if you gasp in the Black Sea, as the author suggests? Let's say that a direct wave will swallow O. Zmeiny, and a reverse wave will flood all the Black Sea states. And where is the selectivity of the action of such weapons?
  29. Fedorovich
    Fedorovich 15 September 2022 18: 28
    0
    Yes, no one will understand whether it is nuclear or conventional - tear it in the port, and that's it, they will arrange a fallout for everyone without leaving the spot.
  30. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 15 September 2022 21: 39
    +1
    Soryu-class submarines equipped with lithium batteries. According to open data, the range of their underwater movement can exceed 10 (!) Kilometers.
    Have Japs ever demonstrated such a range, or is it taken from an advertising poster?
  31. AC130 Gunship
    AC130 Gunship 16 September 2022 01: 33
    0
    Reworked d.-e. the submarine has a lot of disadvantages. Starting from an insignificant working depth and noisy propellers, turning into a large magnetic component on the scale of any anti-submarine aircraft. That. two main factors that some analysts attribute to Poseidon disappear - a large working depth and a small surface area
  32. lelik613
    lelik613 16 September 2022 07: 44
    0
    Without touching on the necessity of the undertaking, I will say about the dubiousness of reworking used submarines. Cheaper to make anew, and more reliable in terms of strength. Well, the difficulties in terms of management.
  33. Voronezh
    Voronezh 16 September 2022 08: 25
    0
    What kind of word is power? Ammunition has always had power.
    1. Chief Officer Lom
      Chief Officer Lom 17 September 2022 15: 59
      0
      It's not the same thing. In your own words: power is "energy", power is the degree of impact on the target. An old, established term.
      1. agond
        agond 19 September 2022 15: 18
        0
        Converting a submarine into an unmanned vehicle, to put it mildly, does not make sense for reasons
        almost the entire mass of the submarine is concentrated in the steel structures of the light and durable hull and internal partitions, plus 35-40% of the water between the hulls, and even if you remove the diesel from the boat, drain the diesel fuel, dismantle everything related to the life support of the crew and push the released volumes with batteries (similar to those what are available on the boat) the underwater range will increase in proportion to their new capacity, this is somewhere around 2-2.5 times, in other words, if on your boat the initial mass of the batteries was, for example, 14% of the underwater displacement, then after the alteration it became 20-25;%, and you cannot lighten the boat by reducing the weight of the hulls, and then you need to leave a place for the combat charge. For the stated purpose, a new special apparatus is needed,
  34. starley
    starley 19 September 2022 20: 16
    0
    Guys, why the serious puffing of the cheeks on this site?
    Better tell a good anecdote.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 21 September 2022 09: 19
      0
      Quote: starley
      Guys, why a serious swelling of the cheeks

      Where is it serious...