Military Review

In the regiment wheeled "foreigners" arrived?

126
Literally the other day, October 18, the media spread a new message regarding military-technical cooperation between Russia and foreign countries. A certain military-diplomatic source told the Interfax news agency that at present the Ministry of Defense specialists are testing and studying two GTK Boxer armored personnel carriers of German-Dutch production. The source also added that according to the test results, a recommendation could be issued on the adoption of this machine for the armament of the Russian army. It is alleged that the tests are already coming to an end and in the near future the corresponding report will be submitted to the leadership of the Ministry of Defense. Finally, the source of Interfax mentioned the possible creation of a joint venture for the licensed production of GTK Boxer armored vehicles in Russia.

In the regiment wheeled "foreigners" arrived?



First of all, you should pay attention to the anonymity of the source. As practice has repeatedly demonstrated, reports received from such “representatives” of the Ministry of Defense, the defense industry, the Ministry of Finance and other organizations often turn out to be just rumors circulating in a given department, or even intentional ducks. Nevertheless, in the light of some recent trends in the development of the national defense and army reforms, the purchase of a small number of German-Dutch armored vehicles looks like a logical and expected step. The fact is that in the last couple of years, the domestic military have seriously turned their attention to light and medium wheeled armored vehicles. To date, the licensed production of Iveco LMV armored cars called “Lynx” has been launched, and two other Italian armored vehicles - Centauro and Freccia - are being tested. In the light of shopping for samples to study and establish a licensed assembly test GTK Boxer does not look something amazing and unique.

Consider the German-Dutch project more closely and try to imagine what it can be useful for the Russian military. First of all, it attracts with its novelty. Development GTK Boxer began a little more than ten years ago, and he just went to the troops of the countries that created it. Accordingly, you will not exactly blame him for the obsolescence of technology and design. In addition, the German-Dutch armored personnel carrier was created taking into account the experience of conflicts of recent years, which significantly affected its defense and armament. Finally, in accordance with the trends of recent years, the “Boxer” was originally made as an armored wheeled platform, on the basis of which a large number of specialized combat and auxiliary vehicles can be made.




To ensure the safety of the crew and the landing, the BTR GTK Boxer is equipped with an AMAP (Advanced Modular Armor Protection) system developed by the German company IBD Deisenroth Engineering. The essence of this armor lies in equipping the combat vehicle with its own composite armor of steel, aluminum and ceramics, as well as adding additional modules of a similar structure. As a result, depending on the combat situation, the armored vehicle can be equipped with a suitable set of additional modules, which will provide it with the necessary level of protection. GTK Boxer can be equipped with reservation modules to protect the crew and units from rifle weapons and small-caliber artillery, from a number of anti-tank grenade launchers, as well as from mines of small and medium weight. The existing photos show how, for example, protection against cumulative jet grenades is provided. For this purpose, the booking module is equipped with an additional anti-cumulative screen. Of course, this does not protect against the tandem warhead, but the probability of defeat with the help of the most common anti-tank weapons is reduced several times.

The standard version of the weapon "Boxer" consists of a remote-controlled turret for a machine gun (including large-caliber) or an automatic grenade launcher. In addition, based on an analysis of the actions of armored vehicles during operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, it was decided to equip GTK Boxer with smoke grenade launchers. Such a set of weapons installed on the basic version of an armored personnel carrier. In addition, GTK Boxer can perform the functions of a self-propelled mortar - for this purpose, a rotary platform is installed in the troop compartment with the appropriate armament of caliber up to 120 millimeters. The development of more serious weapons systems, including with automatic guns of 20 caliber mm and above, continues.

The level of protection and armament of the GTK Boxer armored personnel carrier, as well as vehicles based on it, look quite sufficient and suitable for a car of this class. However, all this simply could not affect the combat mass and, consequently, on the driving performance. BTR own weight is approximately equal to 25 tons. A complete set of hinged armor with a maximum level of protection adds another eight tons. For some time abroad, the weight of the armored vehicle around 20-25 tons is considered normal - equipment of such a mass can be transported by a large number of available vehicles, including suitable aircraft. However, more weight requires the use of a more powerful and more expensive engine. An eight-cylinder diesel MTU V8-199 TE20 with horsepower 710 is installed in the front left part of the GTK Boxer hull. Thanks to the relatively powerful engine, the Boxer can move on a highway at a speed of over one hundred kilometers per hour. The fuel reserve is enough for almost 11 hours of this march. Regarding the ability of the armored vehicle to the intersection of water obstacles there is no accurate data. Most likely, a large weight does not allow GTK Boxer to swim.




The crew of the German-Dutch car in the standard version of the BTR consists of three people: the driver-mechanic, the commander and the gunner. All of them have their own hatches and observation devices. At the rear of the vehicle is a troop compartment with seating for eight soldiers. The landing and landing of troops is carried out through a lowered ramp in the stern. Seats for the transported fighters are placed along the walls of the corps, which, to a certain extent, facilitates embarkation and disembarkation, but excludes the possibility of firing personal weapons through loopholes in the sides. However, when developing a new armored personnel carrier, no landing gear was provided for. Customers and developers of the project gave greater priority to the protection of the hull: due to the absence of any embedded parts, the armored personnel carrier in practice turns out to be more resistant to hits, including multiple ones.

As already mentioned, GTK Boxer is the base for various machines. By simple modifications, he can carry on himself other weapons (mortar or automatic gun) or special equipment. So, Germany has already signed a contract for the supply of command and staff 65 and ambulances for the addition of conventional armored personnel carriers to the 72. In addition, the "Boxer" can be the basis for repair and recovery vehicles or armored truck. In most cases, the re-equipment of the armored personnel carrier implies minor changes in the equipment of the troop compartment, in which it is possible to place communications equipment for the KSHM variant or a stretcher with lying wounded in the case of a sanitary armored vehicle.

As you can see, the GTK Boxer armored personnel carrier has both advantages and disadvantages. Some features of the German-Dutch machine, in particular the large combat mass, significantly distinguish it from what was developed and is being developed in the Soviet Union and Russia. However, the "Boxer" is of particular interest. The fact is that this machine was created as a multipurpose platform and its design was brought in line with the practice of recent wars. Accordingly, a careful study of the characteristics and design can tell a lot to domestic specialists. In this case, it is not necessary to agree on the subject of licensed production. Tests of two or three purchased cars can show all their positive and negative sides, as well as help to form their attitude to one or another element of the overall look. Thus, the purchase of a pair of new foreign armored vehicles is unlikely to be harmful. But the benefits of such a step is the subject of a separate dispute. At the same time, one should not forget that so far the Russian Ministry of Defense has not confirmed and refuted information about the tests of GTK Boxer and even about the very fact of purchasing such machines.









On the materials of the sites:
http://interfax.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://armstrade.org/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
http://artec-boxer.com/
http://army-technology.com/
http://defense-update.com/
Author:
126 comments
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  1. dld35057
    dld35057 20 October 2012 08: 31
    +3
    sailed away .....
    1. Joker
      Joker 20 October 2012 09: 53
      +11
      The "Boxer" was originally made as an armored wheeled platform, on the basis of which a large number of specialized combat and auxiliary vehicles can be made.

      Guys, so it’s Kurganets laughing single platform for our army laughing
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 09: 58
        +13
        Quote: Joker
        Guys, so it’s Kurganets

        Oleg, yes I said this in the last article. Here he is "KURGANETS Dear" hi Now I'm afraid to imagine how ARMATA will look like, not a leopard for an hour belay
        1. Beck
          Beck 21 October 2012 13: 08
          +2
          What makes me happy? So this is the insight and foresight of the Soviet and Russian designers of armored vehicles.

          While the West, in particular the United States created their armored vehicles on a tracked track, M-113. The Russians created the BTR-60 armored personnel carrier in 1960 on a wheeled drive according to the 8x8 \ 4 formula. That is, an all-wheel drive with four front swivel wheels. And such a wheel formula was the most reliable, the most passable, the most promising.

          An example is evident. All the leading countries of the West, when designing their armored vehicles, switched from tracked to wheeled, and precisely according to the 8x8 \ 4 formula. These are American "Strikes" and the current German-Dutch State Customs Committee.

          Here is the little by which the Russians wiped the nose of the West.
      2. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 20 October 2012 17: 12
        +7
        Not "Kuganets", but "Boomerang", dear Joker... "Kurganets" is average tracked chassis...
        1. Joker
          Joker 20 October 2012 17: 40
          +1
          Sorry, I’ve made a mistake, but the essence is the same in principle hi
          1. Hon
            Hon 22 October 2012 11: 02
            +1
            They decided to merge the Arzamas factory campaign ...
            1. Lucky
              Lucky 23 October 2012 16: 18
              -1
              This is not to relax the intrigue catch up!)
      3. Hon
        Hon 22 October 2012 11: 01
        0
        Yeah, the leopard is ARMATA!
    2. Civil
      Civil 20 October 2012 10: 07
      +1
      crosses on the sides ... let's just say ... very embarrassing
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 21 October 2012 08: 26
        +2
        crosses on the sides ... let's just say ... very embarrassing

        crosses will paint over and draw stars (as an option over the crosses ...)
    3. beech
      beech 20 October 2012 17: 43
      +1
      quite a nice machine, you can take a lot of useful things from it, but you can't produce it like a lynx !!! You can, in principle, do it according to the Chinese system, take all the best from it and apply it on our armored personnel carriers. I hope the Kurgan will be at least no worse, or even better !!!
    4. mishok
      mishok 20 October 2012 23: 57
      +3
      yes that's just the point that ARRIVALS
      Mlin
  2. Mikado
    Mikado 20 October 2012 08: 40
    0
    Even Sralnik is available, with such an advantage we will defeat everyone
  3. erased
    erased 20 October 2012 08: 49
    +3
    Well, what about the Boomerang? Already refused, or so far only hinting?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 08: 56
      +5
      Quote: erased

      Well, what about the Boomerang? Already refused, or so far only hinting?

      Yes, to see this German is "Boomerang", as Iveco called "Lynx"
      1. bask
        bask 20 October 2012 09: 03
        +1
        Yes, if Russia releases ,, Boomerang ,, on the basis of the armor and tenologies of Boxser. I only ZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!! "This is not Iveco-Rys (((old)) Boxer is technology of the 21st century. But the release is only in Russia. knots produced in Russia are not less than 50% ... The main thing is the life of a soldier !!!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 09: 07
          +9
          Quote: bask
          Of the nodes made in Russia, not less than 50%

          Hi Basque, where in the case of warriors with NATO will we take the remaining 50% of the spare parts, they will not sell us
          1. wasjasibirjac
            wasjasibirjac 20 October 2012 09: 16
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            and where in the case of warriors with NATO we will take the remaining 50% percent of spare parts, they will not sell to us
            trophy
          2. Igor
            Igor 20 October 2012 09: 24
            -12
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Hi Basque, where in the case of warriors with NATO will we take the remaining 50% of the spare parts, they will not sell us


            NATO will trample us even without nuclear weapons, they will shoot all this equipment with UAVs and the defense industry plants with tomahawks will smash them.
            1. bask
              bask 20 October 2012 09: 31
              +4
              Igor with whom there are wars with militants in the S. Caucasus. And in the case of full-blown aggression against Russia, fighting off with a bude of nuclear weapons .... is no longer like that. We will also use 100% of those completing but with time)))
              1. Igor
                Igor 20 October 2012 09: 39
                +3
                Quote: bask
                Igorek with whom there are wars with militants in the S. Caucasus. And in the case of full-blown aggression against Russia, we will fight back with a nuclear weapons bomb


                Well, I know that, just a comrade from above thinks that we and NATO will fight conventional weapons.

                Quote: bask
                We will also master the 100% issue of completing but, over time)


                In order to master something for this, you need to have a developed industry, machine-tool industry, materials science, microelectronics, and now they are not sadly degrading.
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 09: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Igorek

                  Well, I know that, just a comrade from above thinks that we and NATO will fight conventional weapons.

                  In this case, only Europe will remain from Europe! and from the vey of their gayarmy too hi
                  1. Blat
                    Blat 20 October 2012 20: 03
                    +2
                    Well, from Russia no more than from Germany and from Europe will remain in the case of the use of nuclear weapons
                2. bask
                  bask 20 October 2012 10: 08
                  +3
                  Well, Igor, fools, everywhere you don’t have enough for everyone. A SOLDIER in the Caucasus must be SAVED now, and not in the 15-20 year !!! They steal without armored vehicles Mrap. Here and the losses ,, on the armor ,,
                  1. Igor
                    Igor 20 October 2012 11: 46
                    0
                    Quote: bask
                    Well, Igor, fools, everywhere you don’t have enough for everyone. A SOLDIER in the Caucasus must be SAVED now, not 15-20 !!!


                    I do not mind buying.
                    1. bask
                      bask 20 October 2012 12: 10
                      +1
                      Igorёk. Without ,, fools ,, if Russia does not boil Boxers. (((Although this is the best armored personnel carrier in the world for today))))))) Thanks to his study, the new ,, Kurganets ”will already be with a new compact swearing, modular construction, And much more that we don’t know ,,, STUDYING LIGHT, backwardness of darkness ...
                3. Gren9
                  Gren9 20 October 2012 19: 49
                  +2
                  Well, I know that, just a comrade from above thinks that we and NATO will fight conventional weapons.

                  What are you saying? And with contaminated territory, what will they do?
                  Just imagine. You have a garden and a couple of barrels of nuclear waste on a rainy day. So you want to kill a neighbor and take possession of his plot to grow fruit. Will you pour the contents of these barrels onto the plot? Or just shoot and capture his land?
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 09: 42
              +4
              Quote: Igorek
              NATO will trample us without nuclear weapons, they will shoot all this equipment with UAVs and the defense industry plants will tear them apart

              And NATO’s scoreboard is not cracking, our soldiers already have a whole collection of awards for taking European capitals.
              1. Igor
                Igor 20 October 2012 09: 47
                -3
                They didn’t shoot in the 91st, but they just showed the sausage and they buried the USSR)))
                1. bask
                  bask 20 October 2012 13: 29
                  +4
                  In 91, at the helm, there was this one, a humpback-labeled humpback, not a sausage. This is with ............. and the USSR collapsed. But certainly not without help, Amers!
          3. bask
            bask 20 October 2012 09: 44
            +1
            Greetings to Alexander. But in vain do we need the Germans to pump gas for free. ???? Let them pay with technology, not green candy wrappers. Anyway, I’ll stay behind the hill! This technique is now simply necessary in the S. Caucasus. ,, GDP must ,, shake the aligarchs ,, and buy 200 pieces .. For ,, samples, and the Caucasus)))))
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 09: 54
              +1
              Quote: bask
              But in vain do we need the Germans to pump gas for free. ???? Let them pay with technology

              Yes, the fact is that Germany is not such an independent country, all of Germany’s gold reserves are stored in US banks, so that if the owner allows them to sell, they will remember the story with Opel, Germany wanted to sell, but the owners in the USA were against hi
              Quote: bask
              ,, GDP is necessary ,, to shake the aligarchs ,, and buy pieces 200 .. For ,, samples ,, and the Caucasus)))))

              Something is not strong until he crack them, the aligarchs have a homeland where it is profitable request
              1. bask
                bask 20 October 2012 10: 00
                +2
                I almost completely agree with you. HOW I WOULD LIKE)))))))) But the fact that they are with us is big ++++++++++++++++++ Our specialists will thoroughly study and make the right conclusions! Especially in armor technology for LBT and MODULAR design.
                1. Hon
                  Hon 22 October 2012 11: 07
                  0
                  Or they will be stupidly adopted and the Arzamas plant will be closed as unnecessary. I wonder what the workers of the tank shop will say if the Leopard is adopted instead of ARMATA?
            2. Igor
              Igor 20 October 2012 10: 15
              +2
              Quote: bask
              .And in vain we, whether the Germans pump gas for free. ????


              What other freebies?

              Quote: bask
              Let technology pay


              So we already buy their technology: cars, machine tools, etc.

              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Yes, the fact is that Germany is not such an independent country, all of Germany’s gold reserves are stored in US banks, so that if the owner allows them to sell, they will sell the story with Opel, remember Germany wanted to sell, but the owners in the USA


              This Opel belongs to GM (American automobile corporation), something like that.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 10: 34
                0
                Quote: Igorek
                but hosts in the USA

                You noticed that I wrote!
                1. Igor
                  Igor 20 October 2012 10: 52
                  0
                  I noticed, but you were so outraged by the news that the Americans forbade the Germans to sell their company, as if the Americans had committed a crime.
              2. bask
                bask 20 October 2012 11: 14
                0
                And so Igor, that in Geramania a cube of Russian gas ((for enterprises)) is cheaper than in Russia !!!! Chezh not ,,, Halyava ,,,
            3. Joker
              Joker 20 October 2012 17: 44
              -1
              GDP must ,, shake the aligarchs ,, and buy pieces of 200..for ,, sample ,, and the Caucasus

              200 pieces is the total number of armored personnel carriers Boxer in the German forces lol
              1. Hon
                Hon 22 October 2012 11: 09
                0
                Already it is impossible to shake at the GDP of oligarchs. In the bitch of a chago they stupidly dump along with money and assets.
          4. Vadivak
            Vadivak 20 October 2012 12: 30
            +6
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            , and where in the case of warriors with NATO will we


            Sasha you will be surprised, but they smoothly drag us there.
            1. Kars
              Kars 20 October 2012 15: 57
              0
              Hi. Do not get drugs to send you.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 17: 27
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Hi. Do not get drugs to send you.

                Messages pass, send and do not pay attention to the inscription that the maximum number of messages has been reached. The program crashes, complaints come constantly, but everything works
                1. Kars
                  Kars 20 October 2012 17: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  but everything works

                  but I don’t even have a window open where to write --- click to write a message an error pops up.
              2. Vadivak
                Vadivak 20 October 2012 21: 35
                +1
                Quote: Kars
                Hi. Do not get drugs to send you.

                Throw the link right here I understand
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 17: 30
              +3
              Yes, God forbid, I’d better go to Lada negative
              1. Blat
                Blat 20 October 2012 20: 06
                +1
                cool pepelats, it’s a pity that it does not fly))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
              2. Wedmak
                Wedmak 21 October 2012 14: 07
                0
                Wow. Give two of these!
        2. Igor
          Igor 20 October 2012 09: 13
          +5
          Quote: bask
          Yes, if Russia releases, Boomerang, based on Boxsser’s armor and tenologies.


          And who will sell them to us this armor and technology?

          Quote: bask
          But the issue is only in Russia. Of the nodes produced in Russia, not less than 50%


          Screwdriver assembly only.
          1. bask
            bask 20 October 2012 09: 36
            0
            But with armor for LBTs in Russia, it’s just a little tense, the Aligarchs are on ... they don’t need it and they don’t let it out. And if that comes with numerous defects .. Man needs modern composite armor. Developing it yourself will require large funds. And here on copy study if so good ...
            1. Igor
              Igor 20 October 2012 09: 58
              +2
              Quote: bask
              But with the armor for LBT in Russia, it’s just a “tense”, Aligarham is on ... not needed, and they don’t let out.


              Why should the oligarchs develop armor? They bought the Research Institute "Steel"?
              1. bask
                bask 20 October 2012 12: 19
                +1
                Igor’s brains for them are sharpened wherever and why cn .... b. --- ..- to privatize. Lord with you what ,, development ,, And all ,, black ,, and ,, non-ferrous, metallurgy they have) )))) And in the research institute a lot of things were invented, but who will implement all this in metal ??????
        3. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 20 October 2012 10: 27
          +4
          Quote: bask
          Boxer is 21st century technology.

          But it seems to me that if the BMP-2 removes the tracks and put the wheels, and in the stern combine the doors and remove the partition in the landing compartment, remove the tower it will be very similar to this technology.
          We are taking an example from India.
          1. Splin
            Splin 20 October 2012 10: 41
            +2
            Regarding India, they also do not always anonymize. They have a program to develop wheeled and tracked infantry fighting vehicles.

          2. bask
            bask 20 October 2012 11: 06
            +1
            satum / mmm I have such an idea, it’s sitting in my head for a long time. It’s also possible with caterpillars According to Swedish SEP technology. And except for BMP 1.2. there is GM 123 ((ACS Acacia)) with a front MTO. But, if you re-arrange the main gun from ,, Tunguska air defense system .... GM 579A, 569A, 352M1 T72 tank. Poles re-launched it under self-propelled guns with MTO in their nose .. Generally, we get super BMP ... At minimal costs, high-quality equipment ... But Boxer still knock and , something must be copied !!!
            1. Splin
              Splin 20 October 2012 11: 18
              +2
              "Carnation" was created on the basis of MTLB. There are such projects in Russia. But a heavy infantry fighting vehicle (wheeled or tracked) - in Tagil there is no corresponding diesel engine.

              1. tekinoral
                tekinoral 20 October 2012 13: 36
                0
                and this is a German cougar
                1. Splin
                  Splin 20 October 2012 13: 40
                  +1
                  And what is it for? "Puma belongs to the category of heavy infantry fighting vehicles. Or buy a license too?"
              2. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 3 November 2012 22: 18
                +1
                Quote: Splin
                in Tagil there is no corresponding diesel engine.

                What nonsense is this?
                Here http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2011/10/9_28.html nine articles on our domestic engines (and for armored vehicles, including)

                The plate on the engines of one of the engine manufacturers (Chelyabinsk):
            2. saturn.mmm
              saturn.mmm 21 October 2012 00: 11
              +1
              Quote: bask
              But Boxer still knock and that something must be copied !!!

              I agree with you, I have nothing against German technology.
        4. Hon
          Hon 20 October 2012 14: 27
          +2
          And BTR 90 is not 21st century technology?
        5. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 21 October 2012 07: 13
          +1
          That which does not know how to swim is a fat minus. Judging by the photo and its dimensions, it is 1,5 times larger than our armored personnel carrier.
        6. Lucky
          Lucky 23 October 2012 16: 20
          0
          bask I agree with you !!)
    2. Lucky
      Lucky 23 October 2012 16: 19
      +1
      maybe war is coming soon, we don’t have time to set up production of Kurgan?
  4. APASUS
    APASUS 20 October 2012 09: 29
    +3
    Well, if these turkeys were going to buy these cars, then it’s better to buy a production license to produce from rivets to transistors! And then where to get repair kits in the event of a conflict, for example with Georgia? They will immediately impose an embargo on us !!!
    Judging by an incomprehensible source of information ............. "Boomerang" is ours, can be covered with a copper basin !!
  5. Vital 33
    Vital 33 20 October 2012 09: 42
    +2
    A good dog ... but it’s painfully expensive (about $ 5 million), and a bit heavy. Although if the protection is good ...
  6. saveall
    saveall 20 October 2012 09: 45
    +4
    You need to act like China and feel free to copy technology. Therefore, you need to buy and try to create on the basis of all the best that is in their machines. Our engineers are much more talented and creative than the Chinese, so for us, I think, this will not be a big deal. Then we will achieve in a short time a major breakthrough in the areas of military equipment that we need.

    Well, the car is cool, what can I say ... Germans ... such Germans ...
  7. Alligator_S
    Alligator_S 20 October 2012 09: 50
    0
    Don’t worry so much, this is one of the components of military-technical intelligence. There, the Chinese have pulled various techniques in several copies, then a few years later they made exact copies. Our specialists have more qualifications, so there will be no copies, but there will be integration of some technical solutions in new domestic developments.

    But there won't be any toilets. Ours are not as often slanderous as the vaunted "NATO eagles".
    1. Splin
      Splin 20 October 2012 10: 32
      +2
      Quote: Alligator_S
      then, after a few years, they made exact copies.


      Do you believe that? What Western innovations in armored vehicles have already taken to the conveyor in Russia or Ukraine? We are allowed only to collect bourgeois from car kits. But it’s one thing when it’s cars — another technique for defending the country.
    2. Region71
      Region71 20 October 2012 15: 41
      +6
      Quote: Alligator_S
      But there won't be any toilets. Ours are not as often slandered as the vaunted "NATO eagles"

      And what does it have to do with it. All modern cars are designed with the condition of their use not only against militants but also for actions in the area of ​​use of weapons of mass destruction. Well, I don’t know, maybe it’s more pleasant for you to jump out of the car, run radiation and chemistry into it and crap under the luminous bushes But even without this, for some reason the SU-34 pilots are not protesting that they had a toilet in the cockpit, or do you think they’ll only take rogue people there?
  8. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 20 October 2012 09: 51
    +1
    Good car for special operations.
  9. User777
    User777 20 October 2012 10: 55
    +1
    Well, it started again. Maybe our commanders will be from the Bundeswehr?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 20 October 2012 10: 58
      +2
      Quote: User777
      Maybe our commanders will be from the Bundeswehr?

      No, their soft-bodied commandos constantly lose to ours at various competitions. Although everything can be expected from our MO negative
      1. Region71
        Region71 20 October 2012 15: 36
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        No, their soft-bodied commandos constantly lose ours at various competitions

        An example of such competitions is possible?
  10. kov
    kov 20 October 2012 11: 08
    +3
    gtk video review
  11. kotdavin4i
    kotdavin4i 20 October 2012 11: 16
    +3
    I liked the toilet! If it’s possible to shit in warm conditions, it’s inappropriate to run under a bush ...
    1. in reserve
      in reserve 20 October 2012 12: 46
      +4
      This is exactly the toilet under each seat, we do not have such technology and develop for a long time laughing easier to buy a license. wink
    2. Poppy
      Poppy 22 October 2012 11: 53
      +4
      apparently he is needed at the time of the shelling
      1. ramzes1776
        ramzes1776 27 October 2012 22: 26
        0
        Quote: Poppy
        apparently he is needed at the time of the shelling

        good
  12. markevo
    markevo 20 October 2012 11: 17
    0
    great trucks!
  13. markevo
    markevo 20 October 2012 11: 20
    0
    great trucks!
  14. Alligator_S
    Alligator_S 20 October 2012 11: 26
    0
    Quote: Splin
    Do you believe that? What Western innovations in armored vehicles have already taken to the conveyor in Russia or Ukraine? We are allowed only to collect bourgeois from car kits. But it’s one thing when it’s cars — another technique for defending the country.


    Russia began to actively channel funds for modernization and new technical solutions not so long ago. Prior to that, she had only the right to invest in US debt. But now it is already obvious that the process of sovereignization in Russia has intensified and in a few years some changes can be expected. In Ukraine, for example, we can only dream about it. Our small-town "elite", our "best genocides of the country" will not let the country develop. Our military-industrial complex is in a state of flux. We are already squeezing the last out of the Soviet potential, then - darkness ...
    1. Splin
      Splin 20 October 2012 11: 33
      +3
      We would buy our developments - that money is not present. In Kuwait, the BTR-4 at the qualifying competition for the tender, "tore" the fashionable French VBCI, lagged behind only in accuracy, but met the norms.
      1. Mr. Truth
        Mr. Truth 20 October 2012 12: 11
        +3
        Splin, I like the BTR-4 very much, looked where it rides through the mud at the training ground, and for these 25-30 tons of fat people, fate only rushes along the autobahns.
  15. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 20 October 2012 12: 12
    0
    Read the VIMa comment on Courage, this is a fake.
  16. Splin
    Splin 20 October 2012 12: 34
    +3
    Not everyone has bought for study. Here is Austrian (Austria is a population like in Moscow without Gaster). Pandur 2. He even swims, unlike pasta and Fritz.

    1. viktorR
      viktorR 23 October 2012 09: 55
      0
      How does he not confidently swim even in such calm water, and if the wave there will be even not very big?
  17. Pixel
    Pixel 20 October 2012 13: 19
    +4
    I do not understand, are we saving our defense industry or drowning?
  18. datur
    datur 20 October 2012 14: 02
    +2
    toilet in armored car fairy tale !!!! another coffee maker and toaster !!!! laughing
    1. snek
      snek 20 October 2012 15: 13
      +5
      It may well be that the fighters will have to sit in it for 8-12 hours, so that toilet jokes are out of place here.
  19. Eric
    Eric 20 October 2012 14: 10
    +3
    Strongly against any purchases, even for acquaintance and technology, because the best ceramics were made in the USSR and are now being made at the level of the best foreign analogues! This is a word about armor! Diesel have good! Chechnya has proved it! And you can envy design ideas! In any case, all weapons are very similar! BUT, damn tired of writing shorter! But there is more to say!
  20. sergant89
    sergant89 20 October 2012 14: 41
    0
    Quote: Alligator_S
    Don’t worry so much

    Quote: Alligator_S
    Our specialists have more qualifications, so there will be no copies, but there will be integration of some technical solutions in new domestic developments.

    Quote: Alligator_S
    But there won't be any toilets. Ours are not as often slandered as the vaunted "NATO eagles"

    big plus to you comrade
    1. Lieutenant colonel
      Lieutenant colonel 22 October 2012 02: 14
      +1
      By your logic, Alligator_S BMP 3 is released for the Observers? There is a toilet
  21. Region71
    Region71 20 October 2012 15: 34
    0
    Please remind me visitors to the site. I don’t remember the user, it seems like a LOCOMOTIVE, but I could be wrong, I assured that the development and testing of KURGAN was in full swing and his purchase had been resolved. I assured him that he himself worked at this plant and did not know everything by hearsay. We all seemed to be happy, but in connection with the above article, I don’t know what to think.
    1. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 20 October 2012 17: 27
      -1
      Quote: Region71
      I don’t remember the user, it seems like a LOCOMOTIVE, but I could be wrong,

      It’s not a locomotive, it works in shipbuilding.
      1. snek
        snek 20 October 2012 17: 33
        0
        Quote: Aleksys2
        It’s not a locomotive, it works in shipbuilding.

        He told me that they did exoskeletons there, so the man, apparently, is of a wide profile.
    2. Region71
      Region71 20 October 2012 18: 15
      +2
      Found the guys. This is VARNAGA. True, I admit I was mistaken, he wrote about BUMERANG, but the question remains open, where is VARNAGA ???
      1. Cosmonaut
        Cosmonaut 20 October 2012 23: 25
        0
        The article says that we have 2 copies of the boxer.
        I believe they will study, not buy.
        Although dick understand our MO.
  22. Kir
    Kir 20 October 2012 16: 10
    +2
    Quote: Eric
    for the best ceramics were made in the USSR and are now being made at the level of the best foreign analogues! This is a word about armor!

    so the same Germans, although they did not advertise much, but the information slipped ordered armor-glass in Russia, and the same aramine fiber, from someone's "light hand", all polls referred to as Kevlar, although only two types of these fibers have in its "proprietary name" the given word. conceded to ours about carbon fiber generally keep quiet!
    But getting rid of all of the above, the German Dutchman looks prettier than others, but God forbid buying them! because then it is necessary to acquire the entire technological chain !!! Since each "product" is a product of a certain technology, there were such "smart guys" who tried to adapt the product to our technologies or to our "raw materials" their equipment, at least affected the quality !!!
    And as for the "camping toilet bowls", they seem to have fought with their own people in the good old days !!
    1. Cosmonaut
      Cosmonaut 20 October 2012 23: 27
      0
      I know that amers in Russia buy this fiber.
  23. Setrac
    Setrac 20 October 2012 17: 10
    0
    Too expensive device, 5 megabytes - more than T-90, how much does the BTR-90 cost there?
  24. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 20 October 2012 17: 27
    +1
    Nice looking car ... But it was announced that it does not swim. And this is a minus ... And why is she too "civilized" chtoli. It seems that it was not created for the war, but for the delivery of service burghers across rough terrain to a place of mass picnic in hard-to-reach places ... And so - yes, a very nice armored vehicle ...

    In this regard, the Austrian "Pandur" looks much more promising than the German. And if you want enhanced booking and security, then you need to purchase a heavy infantry fighting vehicle (or BTR-T) for the army. And an army armored personnel carrier a priori must (simply must !!!) swim. This is not any MRAP ...

    And according to this, I will not put the German engineering idea above the triple with a plus of the above-described miracle. As well as the most advanced and over-advanced MRAP class armored vehicles ...
  25. 26vova06
    26vova06 20 October 2012 18: 20
    0
    I think that we will not definitely buy this armored personnel carrier. its characteristics and technologies are simply needed to make the boomerang better ... and to find out the weaknesses of the technology of one of the possible enemies
  26. maxbrov74
    maxbrov74 20 October 2012 18: 42
    0
    Quote: Igorek
    NATO will trample us even without nuclear weapons, they will shoot all this equipment with UAVs and the defense industry plants with tomahawks will smash them.


    If someone still had the opportunity to trample us, bomb and devour us without choking, then believe me, dear, I wouldn’t fail to take advantage of this for a long time.
  27. yacht
    yacht 20 October 2012 19: 08
    0
    Are there people who want to change from Mercedes to Zhiguli? That's just it. So let our soldiers also fight in local conflicts in Mercedes. And with a big mess, this technique will not be decisive. As for taking care of the domestic manufacturer, let them improve their technique, and not sculpt anything. And, for example, Kamaz belongs to the Germans by a third, part of the VAZ is owned by the French, etc. Well, as a last example, American technology in the V.O.V. was widely used in the Red Army.
    I am for.
    1. Splin
      Splin 20 October 2012 19: 18
      +2
      In private life did not come across Moers, but a relative had a "cool" Audi 80 (in the mid-90s). She felt cool until we went to the apiary. So of the cars better than Moskvich 412 there is only Izh Combi - for these cases. And taking into account the fact that fighters do not drive on BATs on the Autobahns, it makes sense to think about it.
      1. yacht
        yacht 20 October 2012 19: 30
        0
        Yes, this means the quality and comfort of the product, not a specific brand, and I assure you that the Germans have SUVs on which you can comfortably drive to any of your apiaries.
        1. Splin
          Splin 20 October 2012 19: 36
          0
          I wrote a CAR. Of course the SUV is cooler, but 5 hours of march on our armored personnel carrier and you will not have any hemorrhoids! (in the real sense).
          1. Kir
            Kir 20 October 2012 20: 20
            +2
            I apologize for interfering, well, here I just remembered a friend's friend dreamed of a "classic suitcase" -gelntvagen, well, I bought it for fishing, well, how do you think this epic ended? A classic tractor!
            Although I respect the Germans for their "culture of production" and pedantry, but the fact is, their technique is not very suitable for our realities, especially do not forget to add to the cost of the product by no means a cheap branded service, somehow they wanted to sign me for such an adventure instead of branded on their own and with their "spare parts" and offered decent money! refused, because then anyway, sooner or later, the "brand" shines and even then it will cost such a pretty penny ...
          2. Region71
            Region71 20 October 2012 21: 14
            +2
            By smoothness with eighty, not every foreign car is comparable.
            1. Lieutenant colonel
              Lieutenant colonel 22 October 2012 02: 19
              +1
              I’ll add from your call T-80 t BTR -80)))))) That's where the ride is smooth !!
      2. igor67
        igor67 20 October 2012 21: 25
        0
        Splin,
        I don’t agree, I had the first one ZAZ 968m, cross-country, fishing, mushrooms, mud through puddles, then I bought a Muscovite 412, it occurred to anyone to put a distributor down, he entered a puddle and the whole car died out, so that for these cases it’s not very, the only soft move is because of the springs, and so the car is de .. Mo, then there was a penny Italian of 76 years, that's the quality.
  28. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 21 October 2012 02: 35
    0
    Our wheeled armored personnel carriers still have higher passability, it is very important for an armored personnel carrier!
    High cross-country ability allows you to bypass roads (where artillery ambushes, or mines are possible) and allows you to be truly non-linear, while the war of the future will be non-linear and "scattered".
    In general, so we put on a promising armored personnel carrier rubber "Krazovsky" 20 inches)
  29. Region71
    Region71 21 October 2012 08: 34
    +1
    And I would take Boxer to the category of BMP. Moreover heavy.
    1. Splin
      Splin 21 October 2012 08: 39
      +1
      I support. Heavy BMPs are protected from small-caliber artillery shells (25-40 mm), and the nature of the chassis (wheeled or tracked) does not matter.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 3 November 2012 22: 52
        0
        Quote: Region71
        And I would take Boxer to the category of BMP. Moreover heavy.

        What would be called BMP - it does not fit with its standard weapons.
        But the BTR-90 (22 tons) with its 30mm gun is easy.
  30. bask
    bask 21 October 2012 08: 45
    0
    Splin Russian armored vehicles in the first place to need blackjack technology MRAF Experience of wars in the Caucasus This fully confirms. Buoyancy and airborne landing ((this is always a compromise)) In the Caucasus, the river is all 1.5 meters. Protection of LBTs from IEDs and RPGs is necessary ...
    1. Splin
      Splin 21 October 2012 08: 54
      +1
      Those armored cars for "police" operations. In general, the Ministry of Internal Affairs should soar over this problem - so that they enter the Internal Troops. The army needs both heavy (to be in tank brigades) and light infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers.
      1. bask
        bask 21 October 2012 09: 04
        0
        The concepts are heavy and light. It is not relevant. A lot of armored vehicles entered the city of Grozny in 94-95 years, there were few. The troops of the Moscow Defense Ministry were engaged and will fight against militants in the event of war. Armament in which RPT and 12.7 mm sniper wind-ups ((threat of damage to devices, triplexes ,,)) observations. The BTR-BMP should be universial. (((((fight and cover the infantry with fire)) 0 On a wheeled and GC. With high interchangeability of parts among themselves. Swedish concept SEP ......
        1. Splin
          Splin 21 October 2012 09: 21
          0
          Almost 20 years have passed ..
          To begin with, the First Campaign in Chechnya was far from a police character (as well as the second one). The fact that armored vehicles were needed during the assault is correct. That the tactics of its use was wrong is a fact. Well, a lot has already been written about this. By the way - the Americans, when entering Baghdad, also used armor. And it was not Strykers or Bradley who acted there together with the Cougars, but Abrashi, who didn’t eat, like the T-72 and T-80 in Grozny.
          1. bask
            bask 21 October 2012 09: 38
            0
            That's about it. The equipment is needed, insurance against, ..... a fool, ....., another Pasha-Mercedes. And now we are sitting in the MoE and are cooler, moron’s ,,, All that you write about the heavy and light brigades ,, Everything is absolutely true. But as you know, Russia has its own way, and light armored personnel carriers will be thrown to the mountains for escorted convoys ((full of militants with RPGs or to the city !!! Such is the specifics in RA ... That's all BTR-BMP Boxer-Boomerang + Kurganets will answer all these challenges. That's the real concept for today. But not as it should or as they have in the world)))
  31. LTL70
    LTL70 21 October 2012 09: 47
    0
    Guys, it looks like the government’s strategy to develop and produce only domestic equipment for the Ministry of Defense on the drum, such uncontrolled initiative seems to end with a junta! Really even a superficial analysis of the technical characteristics of these ugly, even seemingly monsters, does not mean that our equipment is BETTER. Secondly, the maintenance of these kov makes us dependent on the enemy and during the conflict (God forbid, of course) the lack of spare parts will lead to a huge dump of shit, instead of military vehicles. You look: even in advertising, the capabilities of these cuttlefish are much lower than ours, especially in cross-country ability and maneuverability. A block design on a single platform is not news at all! In general, a hostile enemy!
    1. bask
      bask 21 October 2012 10: 05
      0
      LTL70 we are talking about the future conceptual platform. Now in service with the RA is a beautiful BTR 90 with enhanced anti-mine protection. But there are only a few of them in the troops So the soldiers in the S. Caucasus continue to ride and die in vain. By ........ the look and design is the main thing SAVE THE LIFE OF THE SOLDIER. !!!!! Security and security again, this is the main and only criterion for LBT)))
    2. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 21 October 2012 14: 25
      0
      Guys, it looks like the government’s strategy to develop and produce only domestic equipment for the Ministry of Defense on the drum, such uncontrolled initiative seems to end with a junta! Really even a superficial analysis of the technical characteristics of these ugly, even seemingly monsters, does not mean that our equipment is BETTER. Secondly, the maintenance of these kov makes us dependent on the enemy and during the conflict (God forbid, of course) the lack of spare parts will lead to a huge dump of shit, instead of military vehicles. You look: even in advertising, the capabilities of these cuttlefish are much lower than ours, especially in cross-country ability and maneuverability. A block design on a single platform is not news at all! In general, a hostile enemy!


      The better ah ?? !!! And you won’t be full of cross. Personally, I will choose the first from security and patency.
      1. Mihaylo Tishayshiy
        Mihaylo Tishayshiy 21 October 2012 21: 45
        +1
        What are you guys arguing about? It is clear that you can’t shoot from a cannon at sparrows, but from a shotgun at elephants! It’s stupid to fight in regions where there are no serious water obstacles or to storm settlements on vehicles with wild cross-country ability and able to cross the sea straits, but easily stitched from a light machine gun. 30 ton monsters will look just as silly somewhere in the Karelian - Finnish forests or the Siberian taiga. And the path to versatility is obvious - additional removable armored modules. As for procurement, so why not buy for familiarization, the adoption of something sensible from others will not hurt us. But we still need to produce our own.
  32. Director
    Director 21 October 2012 13: 10
    0
    BOXER good Well, a very beautiful armored car, you can learn from him to make your own.
  33. lBEARl
    lBEARl 21 October 2012 15: 27
    0
    But I’m wondering: from what kind of fright did the Germans just take and give us a break-in two modern armored personnel carriers with 21st century technologies ?! What is the problem in all this. Not because of 10 million euros.
  34. mechanic11
    mechanic11 21 October 2012 19: 31
    0
    "I will buy a quality car" -Porsche Cayenne not to offer -And Stalin. (I can not digest German)
  35. Polar Bear
    Polar Bear 21 October 2012 23: 38
    0
    if purchases are made for the study and further use of any technology, then this is a good thing ... but buying them in dozens for your own use in our conditions is simply simply silly ... request
  36. Magadan
    Magadan 22 October 2012 01: 28
    +1
    Quote: Beck
    Here is the little by which the Russians wiped the nose of the West.

    In the defense industry of the USSR to the west, his nose wiped out in all directions. Many times I called on the forum users to give me an example of at least one weapon model, where we lost our nose in terms of quality-performance characteristics-price-reliability. They cited the example of the Internet, which was developed at the Pentagon. Sorry, but the Internet doesn’t shoot and kill in the literal sense of the word, so the example does not channel.
    I'd like to believe that Rogozin, as a true patriot, will begin to put things in order in the military-industrial complex, building it on the Soviet model. We do not teach the West how to build roads, and they do not need to teach us how to make weapons.
    1. phantom359
      phantom359 22 October 2012 01: 47
      0
      MagadanI agree Why is the BTR90 bad? Bring to mind and go into production, and if you have already taken Western samples, study and take all the best to translate into your products.
    2. Beck
      Beck 22 October 2012 08: 23
      0
      Magadan.

      Well, the thing. I somehow got excited. Of course, there’s a lot of something that wiped the nose of the West.
  37. deputy
    deputy 22 October 2012 06: 37
    0
    I have a different thought. It seems to me that the issue is not about armored cars, UDC helicopter carriers, etc. First of all, the country's leadership is trying to establish normal contacts with European countries (including military-technical ones). Note with Britons do not conduct business, but with the Germans, French and Italians. Maybe from such a dialogue it will turn out something in the long run? And on the other hand, the armored cars and the UDC in the local war will not be superfluous to us (a limited party), and in a big war you can do without them.
  38. MolGro
    MolGro 22 October 2012 06: 50
    0
    From all that can be done 3 conclusions!
    1 they purchase foreign equipment not for adoption
    2 Boomerang project is being done taking into account foreign and our developments, or someone has doubts that they didn’t take apart all these armored vehicles)
    The boomerang project is being developed; it has not been closed and will not be closed.
    3 conclusion a lot of people who do not know what is happening and do not understand what research and technology purchases are.
  39. Sol
    Sol 24 October 2012 08: 23
    +1
    Good afternoon!
    MolGro, you are absolutely right. You can add both "4" and "100" conclusions, but you said the main thing.
    In general, it is necessary to start talking about technology and weapons with an understanding of the conceptual model of warfare (in the generally accepted sense of the word). If we, i.e. Russia, we proceed from TOTAL WAR, respectively, weapons, equipment, training, and much more are "sharpened" for this, then our opponents proceed from "remote sensation" or "cruel controlled conflict." Different approaches, respectively, and different goals and objectives.