Fencing is an overly romanticized fight

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Fencing is an overly romanticized fight

Each era implies its own tactics and strategy of warfare. Naturally, first of all, tactics and strategy are chosen based on weaponswhich is available.

Weaponry in the poya field is an art that, as shown storymay well become art in the truest sense of the word. Among other things, this is the possession of cold weapons, including fights with their use.



Hand-to-hand combat with the use of edged weapons - fencing - has firmly entered the culture of world civilization. Moreover, if today fencing is probably overly romanticized (not least thanks to literature and cinema), then in those days when melee weapons were the main ones in battle, there definitely “did not smell” of romance. Even the word itself was not always perceived as a duel of rivals with the same edged weapons. In fact, it was a very real battle on real terrain with a sad outcome for at least one of its participants.

Today, fencing, in the understanding of many inhabitants, is either an Olympic sport, where one of the greatest consequences is a light bulb after an injection, or something from the French novels of the Belle Epoque. By the way, both there and there the main techniques and commands are in French.

Special manuals (instructions) on fencing were created, including those that talked about how one person with a sword or rapier confronted several opponents. The instructions scrupulously describe the behavior of the student during certain actions of the master. Moreover, these instructions were often written down in the form of real treatises, which have survived from the Middle Ages to the present day and represent, if not charters, then quite rigid sets of rules and actions for a swordsman.

Giorgi Peikrishvili and Sergey Kondratenko talk about fencing instructions on the Tactic Media channel.

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    1. +4
      5 September 2022 13: 33
      Ilya Muromets and three bogatyrs and D'artagnan and three musketeers met. We decided to fight. D'artagnan says to the musketeers: "Mark a point on Ilya Muromets's chest with chalk - I'll pierce him with a sword." Then Ilya Muromets said to Alyosha: "Alyosh, sprinkle it with chalk so that you don't miss with the club!"
      1. -3
        6 September 2022 12: 42
        You have to be able to tell jokes, God...
        1. +1
          6 September 2022 15: 06
          Tell us differently, let's laugh. I can too, only the moderators do not allow the use of the entire vocabulary. Waiting for a joke...
    2. 0
      5 September 2022 13: 34
      At the last Olympiad, our saber fencers were the best! Look nice good where the sport is now, it’s not clear to me, sorry for the athletes!
      1. +7
        5 September 2022 13: 48
        Sport is increasingly political.
        Coubertin must be rolling over in his grave. After all, he called for sports to be always not only out of politics, but also to be an honest struggle.
        And now, just a little, they exclude athletes, sabotage the Olympics.
        It's really a pity for the athletes, it's not so often in life you can get to the Olympic Games.
        Yes, and with doping, one (exceptional) is possible, others are not.
        Now another problem arises: sex change.
        A man, "turned" into a woman, has a large muscle mass, and it is almost impossible for women to win in a fair fight.
    3. 0
      5 September 2022 13: 42
      Fencing is a very necessary science in the old days.
      But rather for a nobleman who is always ready to stand up for a hurt honor, rather than for a dashing slasher of soldiers.
      Still, it seems to me that fencing is more about duels and fights.
      And in a real fight, it can become a burden.
      Like in a fairy tale about a cat and a fox who knew 1000 ways to escape from dogs.
      1. +3
        5 September 2022 13: 57
        A crow is sitting with cheese in its beak, a fox is walking past. The crow is already learned, silent. Lisa: Will you have vodka? The crow is silent. Fox pours, is that enough? Kar......)
      2. -1
        5 September 2022 14: 13
        Quote: Flood
        Still, it seems to me that fencing is more about duels and fights.

        as far as I know, it was.
        That is, it turned out like this - a sword is a shrunken sword for self-defense in a city where you won’t carry armor, which means that you don’t need all sorts of chisels and other adaptations to pierce it. The sword is relatively light and comfortable to wear all the time. Accordingly, a sword fight was originally a battle of the unarmored. I remember reading somewhere that when complex guards appeared on swords to protect the hand. swords continued to be made ordinary (and why does he need a guard if a warrior is wearing an iron glove?)
        That is, fencing is not a martial art at all, it is the art of self-defense of a city dweller.
        1. +2
          5 September 2022 14: 25
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          a sword is a shrunken sword for self-defense in the city

          In Europe, such a concept as a sword was not at all familiar.
          It was essentially a sword (spada, sword, schwert).
          And if we consider the sword not as an accessory of the court costume (camisole sword), namely a military weapon, then this is a real sword.

          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          I read somewhere that when complex guards appeared on swords to protect the hand. swords continued to be made common

          As for the guard, I'm not judging.
          But at a later time, the developed guards switched to broadswords and sabers.
          When hand protection became unnecessarily burdensome.
          1. 0
            5 September 2022 14: 49
            Quote: Flood
            In Europe, such a concept as a sword was not at all familiar.

            I agree, but the easiest way is to use the usual definition of a sword / sword. Not that it's more correct, but we're not history professors, are we?
            Quote: Flood
            But at a later time, the developed guards switched to broadswords and sabers.
            When hand protection became unnecessarily burdensome.

            Of course. That is why, I think so, and moved
        2. +1
          5 September 2022 15: 13
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          That is, it turned out like this - a sword is a shrunken sword for self-defense in the city

          it's hard to imagine more bullshit
          1. +1
            5 September 2022 17: 11
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            it's hard to imagine more bullshit

            But of course, you will tell how it was in reality? :)
            1. +1
              5 September 2022 17: 22
              in general, that narrowing of the blades was caused by the eternal defense-attack war, and not by the stupidity of "self-defense in the city"
              the sword is essentially a sword, it has nothing to do with sports equipment
              1. +3
                5 September 2022 17: 41
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                in general, that narrowing of the blades was caused by the eternal defense-attack war, and not by the stupidity of "self-defense in the city"

                In fact, the narrowing of the blades in this particular historical period began with the rapier. And strangely enough, they called him espadas roperas, that is, "a sword for clothes." And here is what Clemens writes about this
                There is curious evidence that the Italian nobility in the 1480s and 1490s began to wear blades that were longer and heavier than ordinary daggers, but lighter than ordinary military (combat) swords. These blades had complex braided or completely closed hilts (with additional rings and rods). It is quite possible that these blades were made longer and longer, and thus, over time, the rapier was born.
                Since the nobles of the second half of the 16th century wore a sword at court as a sign of their high status, and a special privilege - to arrange illegal “fights of honor”, ​​we can confidently assume that this was the original purpose of the rapier, and its current use came later. If the rapier first became widespread at court, then we must ask ourselves the question: why did a weapon that did not have the original "knightly" purpose - war, suddenly become used as an attribute of court costume? It can be assumed that the rapier was an attribute not of noble clothes, but of a simple civilian dress, because a light blade suited very well for everyday self-defense. Eventually these blades became longer and thinner for a more agile thrusting style of swordsmanship more suited to street fighting and private duels. The new type of weapon became popular very quickly because it was needed in the crowded, restless cities of Northern Italy, where there were many armed people and rival gangs.

                So I would not classify the idea of ​​​​a rapier as a non-military weapon in the category of nonsense. The theory may be wrong, but it is quite viable.
        3. +6
          5 September 2022 18: 46
          hi
          That is, fencing is not a martial art at all, it is the art of self-defense of a city dweller.

          Fencing as an art for "individual fighters" is one story (the idea to do the "Thiebaud circle" "in the ranks" would not find, so to speak, support from others).
          Fencing for "collective fighters" is completely different. For example, "a typical position of a pikeman: resting the lance on the ground with the right foot, holding the lance with the left hand and at the same time with the right hand on the hilt of the sword in readiness to put this sword into battle" - ugh, even writing is difficult, this is not "hay - straw" feel

          So "fencing" - it was different for everyone, and completely different things were understood at different times by the word "sword", for example Pappenheimer, which is not at all for self-defense in the city smile


          a sword is a shrunken sword for self-defense in a city where you won’t carry armor, which means that you don’t need all sorts of chasings and other devices to break through it
          but the Poles didn’t know .... they did a lot of things with their coinage, so the sabers seemed a more civilized and humane option: “Terrible weapons were in the hands of the Pole, especially when moods reigned around, inclined to squabbles and fights. , cut his lips, wounded his head, but the spilled blood calmed the fighters.Butt (chased - SS) often inflicted fatal wounds, without seeing blood, and therefore - without seeing it - they did not immediately come to their senses, hit harder and harder and - without injuring the skin - they broke ribs and crushed bones. The gentry, who walked with these butts, most of all deprived their subjects of health, and sometimes life. Therefore, at large congresses, diets, sejmiks, tribunals ... it was not allowed to show up with a nadzhak. This tool really was terrible, because when one struck another person with the sharp end of the nadjak, he killed immediately, piercing the iron into the bone through and through.
          1. +1
            6 September 2022 07: 43
            Quote: Wildcat
            Fencing as an art for "individual fighters" is one story

            so talk about him
            Quote: Wildcat
            completely different things were understood at different times by the word "sword"

            In this case, I use the word "sword" in the generally accepted sense, that is, a lightweight sword designed primarily for stabbing, although to a certain extent retained the ability to deliver slashing.
            Quote: Wildcat
            but the Poles did not know ....

            And the Poles are a separate issue, not very typical for Europe.
            1. 0
              6 September 2022 11: 05
              hi
              Well, nice.

              May I ask: are any of the articles to be expected? Besides the First World War at sea?
              Or maybe something big is in the works, like "Verb over the Baltic"?
            2. 0
              6 September 2022 22: 11
              "sword" in the generally accepted sense, that is, a lightweight sword, designed primarily for stabbing, although to a certain extent retained the ability to inflict chopping

              hi
              If nothing is known about creative plans, then there is time to enjoy the cinematic version of "sword against the claymore"!


        4. +2
          13 October 2022 10: 19
          this is a shrunken sword for self-defense in the city

          I can't help but intervene, albeit belatedly
          the appearance of the sword is still associated with the appearance of the firearm, which made the armor a burden. and the sword began to lighten, straight to the sword. mind you, all the officers on the battlefield were armed with swords for a very long time. That is, self-defense is still on the battlefield
          1. +1
            13 October 2022 11: 36
            Quote: novel xnumx
            the appearance of the sword is still associated with the appearance of the firearm, which made the armor a burden

            Let's remember that classic knightly armor arose a little later than the appearance of a firearm and were in favor for quite a long time :))
            Quote: novel xnumx
            , all the officers, on the battlefield, for a very long time were armed with swords

            Weighing 1-1.5 kg, while one-handed swords weighed 0.9-2 kg. In fact, that sword was a completely normal sword, only with a developed guard, the need for which arose due to the lack of a plate glove
      3. 0
        6 September 2022 09: 21
        Quote: Flood

        And in a real fight, it can become a burden.


        What is it like? Can you give an example?
        1. 0
          6 September 2022 09: 28
          Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
          What is it like? Can you give an example?

          Fencing is the development of techniques at the level of reflexes, muscle memory for a certain type of fight.
          Let's call it a duel.
          Often on a prepared site, although not necessarily.
          Most often against an enemy armed with similar weapons.
          When circumstances change, several components of this composition, the acquired fencing techniques can work against the fencer in a completely natural way.
          For example, in a hand-to-hand dump.
          For example, against an opponent armed with a saber.
          There can be many options.
          1. +1
            6 September 2022 13: 54
            Quote: Flood
            Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
            What is it like? Can you give an example?

            Fencing is the development of techniques at the level of reflexes, muscle memory for a certain type of fight.
            Let's call it a duel.
            Often on a prepared site, although not necessarily.
            Most often against an enemy armed with similar weapons.
            When circumstances change, several components of this composition, the acquired fencing techniques can work against the fencer in a completely natural way.
            For example, in a hand-to-hand dump.
            For example, against an opponent armed with a saber.
            There can be many options.


            You are theorizing.
            I have been engaged in sports fencing (foil) for 7 years, for me fencing is a matter of practice. Including coaching. Naturally, I tried both a sports saber and a sword. Of the historical in adulthood - Destreza.

            Children begin with the development of motor stereotypes, this happens about 1-2 years. Then the brain turns on and the person begins to REALIZE what he is doing and what is the meaning of fencing in general, which distinguishes it from "waving a stick."

            And what distinguishes him ... if you do not paint, then it all comes down to leverage, support on your feet and a sense of distance.

            Yes, of course, a person improves in the possession of some type of weapon with which he begins. But if he hits an enemy armed with other melee weapons, his skills in owning his own weapons have not gone away.
            As well as the ability to see the enemy as the "engineer" sees the totality of joints and "levers". Whatever the enemy is armed with, he cannot violate the laws of physiology and physics.
            And 2-3 trial attacks will already be enough to understand what kind of fighter is in front of you.

            When circumstances change, several components of this composition, the acquired fencing techniques can work against the fencer in a completely natural way.
            For example, in a hand-to-hand dump.

            Fencing techniques boil down to leaving the line of attack, taking the enemy's blade to the side, and striking in the most optimal way.

            But there is another argument - for our ancestors it was an IMPORTANT thing in their lives.
            So I think they were able to correct certain aspects. In the same dextrese, there is both a "ceremonial", "academic" style and a dirty one for a fight in pubs. With the capture and knocking out of weapons, breaking hands, etc.

            You have too ... a strange idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe people of the past, that they were almost idiots. their life depended on it, and they learned to make holes in bags of straw, so that any village swineherd could then give them a lyuley simply by pulling the drin out of the fence. They knew how to fight in their era and adapted to it. Who did not adapt stupidly died.
            1. 0
              6 September 2022 14: 07
              Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
              you theorize

              Naturally.
              And I do it without any hesitation, because there is nothing shameful in theorizing.

              Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
              I have been engaged in sports fencing (foil) for 7 years, for me fencing is a matter of practice. Including coaching. Naturally, I tried both a sports saber and a sword. From historical in adulthood - Destreza

              The more interesting it will be to know your opinion.

              Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
              And what distinguishes him ... if you do not paint, then it all comes down to leverage, support on your feet and a sense of distance.

              See, nothing about the awareness you wrote about earlier.
              No doubt the brain is involved. But the accumulated neuro-muscular connection becomes shorter.
              Instead of a thought process - accumulated experience and skills.
              Just like in martial arts.

              Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
              You have too ... a strange idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe people of the past, that they were almost idiots.

              He didn't say a word about it.
              I certainly appreciated your tact.
              But your ability to see through is frightening.

              Answer: do you think that a successful duelist and swindler can be compared in effectiveness in combat with a veteran mercenary?
              Or vice versa.
              1. 0
                8 September 2022 08: 40
                Quote: Flood
                See, nothing about the awareness you wrote about earlier.

                On the contrary, it's all about awareness.
                It's just that your understanding of fencing solely as a set of movement stereotypes does not allow you to perceive some things, even when they are directly told to you (which is not surprising, since this experience was not lived by you).

                Quote: Flood
                Answer: do you think that a successful duelist and swindler can be compared in effectiveness in combat with a veteran mercenary?
                Or vice versa.

                I think this question is akin to - who is the coolest of the ninja turtles?

                He didn't say a word about it.
                I certainly appreciated your tact.
                But your ability to see through is frightening.

                It's not straight through, I just understand what sports fencing is today and what fencing as a "craft" was in the past.
                People were not just mindlessly banging on wood with an ax like woodcutters. And for centuries they spent time on an ongoing series of reflections and then testing these reflections in practice.

                In my experience, there were thousands of experiments even within the framework of a sports foil.
                There were moments when I thought that I came up with a mega-chip, I started to try it, it turned out to be a complete crap. And vice versa, he consciously invented something, accidentally found / peeped something. And what worked, did not always work and not for everyone - a lot of variables, left-handed / right-handed, height, style features.
                All this is very variable.

                I can’t ignore this professional experience, so I don’t see the point in theorizing like you. I also cannot ignore the enormous variability. I had cases when for a long time I could not win against an opponent with a class lower than me, it was so inconvenient for me to fence with him. There were cases when I led 9-2 to competitions and after the break I relaxed and got 8 injections in one wicket, and then I had to drag the fight close and won with a margin of only 2 injections. who wouldn't believe would tell.

                Yes, and the question that has always "tormented" me - there are cuts in competitions when people finish with a score of 15 13, for example.

                But in the case when the weapon is combat, the outcome will be either 1-0 or 1-1 and both will lose.
                Even fencing with a weaker opponent you still miss, even if 15-2 or 15-5, but you miss.
                Those. there is a chance that a stronger swordsman will be stabbed by a weaker one. It is due to the huge variability.

                And in this regard, yes, probably the "dueling" situation gives more chances to the more experienced, since it allows you to reconnoiter the enemy, correctly understand how to act and implement this plan.

                Short skirmishes in this sense "pig in a poke", a person may be forced to act as quickly as possible and how it will develop there is unknown.
                1. 0
                  8 September 2022 08: 50
                  Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
                  Answer: do you think that a successful duelist and swindler can be compared in effectiveness in combat with a veteran mercenary?
                  Or vice versa.

                  I think this question is akin to - who is the coolest of the ninja turtles?


                  You obviously misunderstood.
                  "On the contrary" means a change of situation and rules.
                  Turtles are different, and conditions are different.
                  What do you agree with (quote below).

                  Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
                  And in this regard, yes, probably the "dueling" situation gives more chances to the more experienced, since it allows you to reconnoiter the enemy, correctly understand how to act and implement this plan.

                  It was enough to get by with this one paragraph, without being distracted by things that, in your opinion, a person from the outside cannot understand.

                  What you call a set of motor stereotypes is the fruit of awareness in the process of training and previous experience.
                  But quantity must turn into quality.
                  And awareness and experience - in skills.

                  In the sense that the "duel situation" makes it possible to evaluate the opponent and his abilities, I agree.
                  Yes, there is room for awareness.
                  But the landfill gives such an opportunity to a much lesser extent. If it gives at all.
                  1. 0
                    8 September 2022 09: 00
                    Quote: Flood
                    What you call a set of motor stereotypes is the fruit of awareness in the process of training and previous experience.

                    What I call a set of motor stereotypes is the result of the THOUGHTS "braking" those exercises that were given to work out.

                    I observed many people who worked out the technical elements well, but the stage of awareness never came to them.

                    You obviously misunderstood.
                    "On the contrary" means a change of situation and rules.

                    I repeat, in fencing, the variability is so huge that discussions on this topic are fortune-telling on coffee grounds.
                    1. 0
                      8 September 2022 09: 24
                      Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
                      What I call a set of motor stereotypes is the result of the THOUGHTS "braking" those exercises that were given to work out.

                      Perfectly.
                      I understand what you mean.
                      The same is true in martial arts.
                      Although I am not very familiar with them, I have an idea.

                      Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
                      I observed many people who worked out the technical elements well, but the stage of awareness never came to them.

                      Because he comes at a certain level of skill.
                      Not everyone is given, and each Saoi has talents.

                      Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
                      I repeat, in fencing, the variability is so huge that discussions on this topic are fortune-telling on coffee grounds.

                      It was interesting to read your comments.
                      Good Luck!

                      PS
                      I have my own opinion about "THOUGHTLESS zadrachivaniye".
                      this is the beginning of the path.
                      like a multiplication table for a schoolboy.
                      or writing squiggles in first grade.
                      You can't expect too much from a student.
                      and until this stage is passed, he will not be able to move on to the next.
            2. 0
              6 September 2022 20: 23
              The joke is that in reality, just the village swineherd (conditionally) pulled out the drain and fucked the noble knights.
              And then he got bored and he walked all over Europe in the ranks of the Swiss infantry. What is characteristic - the Swiss school of fencing did not appear
        2. +2
          13 October 2022 10: 22
          here something is clearly preventing Suvorov
    4. -3
      5 September 2022 14: 06
      yes, for sure, what will a musketeer do with his sword, against a savage (well, for example) with a club, or a shaft, well, or with a sword? In fencing, it is important - the same weapon in hand as the enemy - otherwise everything comes to naught!
      1. +7
        5 September 2022 14: 56
        what will a musketeer do with his sword, against a savage (well, for example) with a club, or a shaft, or with a sword?

        A savage musketeer is likely to be shot. A good swordsman will kill with one precise blow. And yes, you probably have a wrong idea about the swords of the times of these same "musketeers".
        1. 0
          5 September 2022 15: 31
          against scrap, no reception! wassat
          "About Birch" I hope you heard!
      2. -1
        5 September 2022 22: 01
        It would most likely be like this:

      3. 0
        6 September 2022 20: 25
        You are delirious. Nothing personal. Cases of meetings of conditional musketeers with savages with clubs - a shaft.
        Actually, the entire 16th century, the Spaniards let those dmkors screw up
    5. 0
      5 September 2022 14: 19
      Quote from Commodore Arctic
      yes, for sure, what will a musketeer do with his sword, against a savage (well, for example) with a club, or a shaft, well, or with a sword? In fencing, it is important - the same weapon in hand as the enemy - otherwise everything comes to naught!

      There is a Rob-Roy movie...
      1. 0
        5 September 2022 14: 29
        Quote: Vladimir Michailovich
        There is a Rob-Roy movie

        Great movie.
        And the fight scenes are great.
        Many connoisseurs of historical fencing respond very flatteringly.
        But still, I would be careful not to grab a sharpened blade with my palm.
        1. +1
          6 September 2022 15: 28
          But still, I would be careful not to grab a sharpened blade with my palm.

          The blade is not sharpened for its entire length, usually only the upper third, the lower part of the blade is defensive
          1. 0
            6 September 2022 16: 48
            Quote: Konnick
            The blade is not sharpened for its entire length, usually only the upper third, the lower part of the blade is defensive

            need to rewatch the scene
            1. 0
              6 September 2022 16: 53
              There the hero grabbed the upper third of the blade
            2. 0
              6 September 2022 20: 26
              This movie. It's full of conventions.
    6. 0
      5 September 2022 14: 49
      In the history of sports, if we talk about fencing, the “officer pentathlon” was interesting: fencing, pistol shooting, horseback riding, running, swimming ...
      One of those sports where there were no problems with status - are you an amateur or a professional (?), Which ensured both a high level of competition and the relative honesty of the participants (it was not necessary to make students or locksmiths out of superstars)...
      hi
      1. 0
        5 September 2022 15: 00
        No need, archaic.
        Only if you revive (it seems already) in the form of a march, an obstacle course, shooting, disassembling and collecting weapons. Something like this. And let them orient themselves on the map, the officers.
    7. -5
      5 September 2022 14: 58
      As melee weapons (not counting bows / crossbows / slings) - the best are polearms.
      Spears, halberds, lances and the like. At least a bayonet on a long gun (one fig a second time will not charge time, and it’s almost a spear).
      A freak with a sword / rapier will not even have time to approach as he will suffer.

      In fact, a sword is a weapon made from fat raging nobles and other cutesy fools (a kind of woman's saber).
      1. 0
        5 September 2022 19: 25
        Early archers and Russian musketeers, city Cossacks also used swords no worse than the Spaniards and Italians, being non-nobles.
        Yes, and ordinary conquistador soldiers went on the attack on the Indians with swords.
        1. 0
          6 September 2022 20: 27
          Where would they get their swords from?
          1. 0
            6 September 2022 21: 49
            Swords for the Russian army were produced industrially. "Palace Ranks" for the first time mentions the swords of Russian archers on April 16, 1651.
            But the Spaniards-conquistadors in the New World even used old rapiers - just as now in African countries they use old tanks and planes. For the most part, they were natural nichebrods and simply could not afford modern weapons, surviving stocks from grandfather's chests and basements of illiquid weapons shops.
            http://ostrog.ucoz.ru/publ/l/17-1-0-30
            https://vlg.aif.ru/culture/events/1072596
            1. 0
              7 September 2022 10: 39
              That is, the middle of the 17th century, do you think these are early archers? I'll remind you - these are the times when the soldiers' regiments multiplied
    8. +1
      5 September 2022 16: 46

      Pappenheimer is a pronounced combat cavalry (!) rapier, a true brainchild of its time. The inventor is Gottfried Heinrich von Papenheim (Papenheim), who lived at the turn of the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries. He served in the cuirassiers, was a colonel in a cuirassier regiment, and eventually rose to the rank of commander-in-chief of the Catholic League (Thirty Years' War). A man of insane courage (albeit of the same insane cruelty), who fought all his life, Pappenheim repeatedly went into battle in the front ranks of heavy cavalry, being at the forefront of the attack. And therefore, what kind of weapons his cuirassiers needed, he knew exactly.
      https://zen.yandex.ru/media/dnevnik_rolevika/rapira-vesom-s-tiajelyi-mech-boevoi-pappenhaimer-5c53e61a57bd9200adf81049
    9. -1
      5 September 2022 22: 00
      Fencing, hand-to-hand combat, knife fighting are overly romanticized in the cinema; in practice, during combat operations, it is unlikely that there will be a chance to apply the skill in its purest form. So he trained all his life to deftly wield a "sword", worked out blows and feints for several hours a day, and in battle he was either covered with shrapnel, or in a bayonet battle he was filled up with a mass.
    10. +1
      6 September 2022 12: 44
      Fencing is the ability to use a certain type of weapon. Nothing more than that, nothing less. How people understand swordsmanship is another matter, not related to the technique itself. All sorts of distortions in his perception on the conscience of people, not art.
      Such distortions arise because a certain part of people are constantly looking for "superweapons". Magic button. Puff! In a word, something that will allow them to win over everything and everyone, preferably without straining, and not breaking away from booze, grub and the sofa. They say there is somewhere in the world a supermaster who is able to teach (without labor and sweat) a super technique, which is cooler than everyone and everything!
      It is impossible to bring to the senses and minds of people who are looking for this. At least a stake on your head...
    11. 0
      8 September 2022 00: 12
      For some reason, many people think that the Sword is something like a long, slightly flexible needle with a guard. But the Swords, for example, the Walloon one (namely, this is what Dartagnan and Capt Altariste would have wielded) very, very much resembled in shape ... a broadsword. The blade was, of course, narrower than on a sword, but the possibility of a chopping and slashing strike did not disappear ANYWHERE. Yes, and confusion in the nomenclature - Sword, Rapier or there Smallsword, Epee, Foil, Spada.
      From what I read, there were TWO types of such weapons - a civilian sword, in English these are called "smallsword". Something resembling a modern fencing "needle", with a guard. And a combat sword, of which the Walloon swords and pappenheimers are excellent examples. These were not needles at all, which could break apart the skull and cut off the arm at the elbow without much effort. For example, one of these Walloon swords, made in the middle of the 17th century, had a blade length of 880mm, a blade width of 40mm. And it does not differ much in length and width from the same Scottish broadswords, sciavons and the British Grave Sword (mortuary sword). Of course, the technique of working with such a heavier, combat sword differed from the technique of working with a civilian sword (epee, smallsword), in much the same way as the technique of working with an Estok differed from the technique of working with a two-handed weapon, although both weapons are straight-edged and two-handed.
      By the way, it is worth noting that European swordsmen, over and over again, chopped the vaunted Japanese "sword masters" into cabbage, and the Portuguese and the Spaniards and the British.
    12. 0
      10 September 2022 21: 19
      The fight cannot be romanticized at all. In battle, the main thing is to win (stay alive and kill the enemy), no matter how. Otherwise, it is better not to fight.
    13. 0
      25 October 2022 20: 48
      Quote: iouris
      The fight cannot be romanticized at all. In battle, the main thing is to win (stay alive and kill the enemy), no matter how. Otherwise, it is better not to fight.

      Mr. Putin strongly disagrees with his "special operation".
      1. 0
        31 October 2022 08: 27
        People like beautiful things, and if they are still comfortable and highly functional, though the last question is debatable, the author of the 16th century work "Paradoxes of Defense" D. Silver, wrote that a sword against a pole of the correct length is nothing, and even two with swords they won’t overcome one thing with a pole .. By the way, there is an interesting description of a duel of a naked man with a cloak and a club against a professional warrior, with a sword, a spear, a dart and a shield. accomplished many feats. The duel was at the court of Alexander the Great and its description has come down to our time.
        “When they converged, the Macedonian threw a spear from a proper distance; his opponent, deviating slightly, avoided the blow. Then Korrag, putting forward the Macedonian sarissa, went to Dioxippus, but when he approached him, he hit the sarissa with a club and broke it. After these two failures, the Macedonian grabbed the sword, but while he was pulling it out, the enemy was ahead of him: jumping up to him, he grabbed the hand that drew the sword with his left hand, and the other pushed the enemy from his place and, grabbing his legs, knocked him to the ground. collapsed, he stood with his foot on his neck, and, raising his cudgel, looked at the spectators.

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