Military Review

Into deep space on a Z-engine

26
Half a century ago, even before the beginning of the space age, scientists from leading countries concluded that there are no serious prospects for existing types of rocket engines. The specific power of liquid and solid fuel engines is sufficient for the existing purposes, but too small for a distant future. The way out of the current "deadlock" became nuclear rocket engines (YARD). However, despite a lot of research, both concepts of such engines have not reached practical application. It all ended in a few tests.

Some time ago appeared news on the resumption of work in this direction, both in Russia and in the United States. In the United States, scientists from the University of Alabama, NASA, Boeing, and the Oak Ridge laboratory are simultaneously engaged in this program. The new rocket engine is planned to do so-called. impulse system. This means that during operation, small portions of the radioactive substance will be ejected from a special nozzle. After ejection, a portion of uranium, plutonium or other material with suitable properties explodes and gives the spacecraft an impetus, striking a special plate surrounding the ejecting nozzle. Since an enormous amount of energy is released during a nuclear explosion, pulsed NRE is currently considered the most promising class in terms of specific power and the ratio of fuel consumption to thrust. However, such a system has several characteristic flaws: the need to ensure proper strength of the plate, which takes up the impulse of an explosion, the release of radioactive fission products, as well as the correct calculation of the power of the nuclear charge and the time of its explosion. In this regard, all work on pulsed NRE has so far limited itself solely to theoretical calculations.

A new proposal from the Oak-Ridge laboratory staff is able to solve at least one problem of nuclear rocket engines - ensuring the correct distance from undermining the charge and, as a result, effective fuel consumption. The proposed technology is called Z-pinch (Z-compression). Its essence lies in the creation of a plasma "cocoon", within which there will be an explosion of fuel. To this end, it is proposed to equip the "nozzle" of the engine with a plasma generation system, as well as a number of related equipment. Thanks to him, immediately after the release of a nuclear or thermonuclear charge of an engine system, an especially high-power electric discharge is passed through the resulting plasma. The discharge causes the formation of a powerful magnetic field that captures the charge of fuel. The latter, having come under such an impact, shrinks and reaches a critical density. By the end of the electricity supply, according to calculations, an explosion occurs. The fuel for the Z-engine is currently proposed to use a mixture of deuterium and lithium isotope Li6. Thus, the proposed engine is based on thermonuclear reactions.

It is worth noting that the above description applies only to one cycle of operation of the perspective ZD compression YARD. During the operation of the engine such cycles must be repeated continuously, the frequency depends on the required power. The current calculations show that the maximum speed of a spacecraft with a Z-engine can reach the mark of one hundred thousand kilometers per hour and even pass through it. True, this will require a sufficiently large amount of deuterium-lithium fuel. In defense of the project, it is worth arguing that fuel costs less in terms of weight: traditional chemical rocket engines capable of accelerating the vehicle to such speeds would be completely unacceptable in size and fuel consumption. The Z-compression engine does not have such problems, but, as it always happens, it was not without its own flaws. First of all, it is the complexity of the design. At first glance, it seems that such a YARD is relatively simple, but even creating a slab that takes in the blows of explosions is in itself a rather difficult task, because this part will have to withstand hundreds and thousands of explosions of sufficiently high power. In addition, Z-compression requires a tremendous amount of energy that a spacecraft must also take from somewhere. Thus, saving on direct fuel leads to difficulties with other elements of the system.

Nevertheless, several American scientific organizations at once took up this project and, it seems, are not going to abandon it. As a minimum, until a maximum of information is gathered, from which it will be possible to derive the appearance of a promising engine and a list of its advantages and disadvantages of a technological nature. Naturally, new technologies require new and unique scientific equipment. The Z-machine installation was chosen as the main platform for Z-compression research. In fact, it was in honor of this device that the principle underlying the promising concept of a nuclear engine was named. The pulsed energy accelerator called “Z-machine” is located on the territory of the Sandia National Laboratory (New Mexico). In fact, it is a complex of a large number of powerful capacitors that can store energy and give it away on command. Such devices have long existed and are used by scientists, but in the project of the Z-engine the accelerator from Sandia will be used. The reason for this is its power. To hold and compress portions of thermonuclear fuel, colossal energies are required, which are simply beyond the power of other accelerators. The Z-machine is capable of delivering an electrical impulse of 210 terawatts for one nanosecond (billionth of a second). It is expected that Z-compression can be achieved at lower capacities, but the stock does not hurt.

The Z-machine power accelerator, even apart from the project of the new YARD, is of great interest. At the moment it is the most powerful device of this class. In addition, the unit from Sandia's laboratory has acceptable characteristics: the charging of system capacitors lasts several hours and does not use the existing “common” transmission networks. In this case, the Z-machine generates a record power of ultrashort pulses. The purpose of creating a pulse accelerator was to study the process of thermonuclear fusion and, in the future, to study the possibilities of controlling it. It is for this reason that the authors of the installation project provided for the possibility of accumulating huge charges. It is noteworthy that during the discharge of capacitors, lightnings are formed around the conductors of the accelerator.

The project of a nuclear rocket engine operating on the principle of Z-compression is quite interesting, but at the same time fantastic. To date, mankind has not yet conducted any experiments with pulsed NRE, especially with those based on thermonuclear reaction. However, the finished engine is still far away. So far, scientists face the challenge of carefully studying the characteristics of thermonuclear reactions in a small amount of matter, as well as proving the practical possibility of Z-compression. In addition, you will need to create an energy source that will cope with the generation of the necessary electric power for the engine, as well as design a workable and highly protected system for supplying thermonuclear fuel to the working part of the engine. At the moment, all these tasks look more than difficult. Hopefully, the Americans will cope with them and humanity will receive a new technology that can give a powerful impetus to astronautics and ensure massive flights to other planets.


On the materials of the sites:
http://dailytechinfo.org/
http://nasa.gov/
http://ornl.gov/
http://sandia.gov/
http://astronautix.com/
Author:
26 comments
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  1. Dimonanet
    Dimonanet 18 October 2012 08: 21
    +4
    Let's hope that RUSSIANs will cope with this task! Also a patriot to me! He enriched the whole article with his hopes!
    1. Gemar
      Gemar 18 October 2012 10: 50
      +4
      Quote: Dimonanet
      Let's hope that RUSSIANs will cope with this task!

      I agree! +
      The article is good, but the last sentence clearly indicates the foreign origin of this article.
      Thanks to Ryabov Kirill for the information, but to write that humanity will receive this technology thanks to the Americans is UNFair to the latter! Not such Americans are fools to invent and share this with the world.
      1. Dimonanet
        Dimonanet 19 October 2012 12: 12
        0
        Yes, even more than that! Not that they will not share, and even the ships will be built on such engines and the planet will be captured! Foul creatures will fly and RUSSIAN land to burn! And not only Russian! But they have no ambitions alone!
    2. Nick
      Nick 18 October 2012 20: 45
      +4
      Quote: Dimonanet

      Let's hope that RUSSIANs will cope with this task! Also a patriot to me!

      It could be said more correctly - "Let's hope that humanity will cope with this task" ...
  2. sania1304
    sania1304 18 October 2012 09: 32
    +1
    Who cares? Even if the Russians invent, anyway the license will be made by pi ... sy. In general, as usual ...
  3. Sergl
    Sergl 18 October 2012 10: 55
    +7
    The development of near-Earth space, access to deep space (Jupiter, Saturn) are impossible without the political unification (in one form or another) of the existing states and, as a result, the unification of scientific and production potentials.

    And without space exploration, the very existence of human civilization is a big question.

    In any case, the consumer society needs resources for the production of gadgets.
  4. afire
    afire 18 October 2012 11: 00
    +4
    afta in the furnace for the last offer
  5. tambu
    tambu 18 October 2012 11: 16
    +3
    I haven’t read more delirium for a long time ... it’s delirious, while the leader in my rating .... it looks more realistic to extract antimatter in sufficient quantities and combine it with any other positive energy to create a mass that can distort time and space ... here at least there are antimatter results and measurements ... and the principle is clear .... at first they would sort it out with burning ... half of the calculations and processes are based on empiricism ... nonsense
    1. Nick
      Nick 18 October 2012 21: 45
      +1
      Quote: tambu
      would ... half the calculations and processes are based on empiricism ... nonsense

      What's wrong with that? The trial and error method is also a way of knowing ... Although, perhaps, it is not the most effective ...
  6. firever3000
    firever3000 18 October 2012 12: 18
    -2
    Is it worth it to spend resources on engines when there is success in teleporting?
    1. Very smart
      Very smart 18 October 2012 13: 22
      +6
      firever3000
      You, my friend, have already teleported from somewhere. But along the way, you lost your brains. Accept my sincere condolences.
      The article is interesting, but as a curiosity. Thermonuclear power plants - the near future (according to experts - 50-60 years). The issues of plasma control (real control) are also not a distant future. Probably. And the combination of these two processes and even in small dimensions is a matter of the distant future. Well, teleportation is even now! Without leaving a cash desk !!! fayver3000 say hello to the little green men!
    2. Igor
      Igor 18 October 2012 18: 11
      0
      Quote: fayver3000
      Is it worth it to spend resources on engines when there is success in teleporting?


      Head! laughing
    3. de_monSher
      de_monSher 18 October 2012 18: 50
      0
      And what are these successes? *)))) Do you accidentally confuse the study of the phenomenon of quantum entanglement with "successes in teleportation"? *)
  7. spirit
    spirit 18 October 2012 12: 23
    +1
    yes! nonsense! they would still have come up with a ship in v-de bullet with many charges!
    1. postman
      postman 18 October 2012 16: 19
      +2
      Quote: spirit
      yes! nonsense! they would have come up with

      Well, in the very idea of ​​using the Z-pinch effect (kinetic energy of synthesis) to get an impulse there is nothing crazy.

      Impulse movement (simplest)
      High-strength nozzle (reflector) system for supplying mini charges (Nuclear fusion) into focus and undermining them. Newton's third law, momentum, recoil, movement.
      The problem is protection (weight) and materials, as well as minimizing charge.
  8. Straus_zloy
    Straus_zloy 18 October 2012 12: 58
    0
    Current calculations show that the maximum speed of a spaceship with a Z-engine can reach a mark of one hundred thousand kilometers per hour and even pass through it.

    rave! the indicated figure is equivalent to 27,7 kilometers per second and is easily achieved by conventional engines.
    The author should read the school physics course and understand that for ordinary entry into near-Earth orbit, today's spacecraft develop 25000 km / h.
    That's what worship of America leads to. bully
    1. Very smart
      Very smart 18 October 2012 13: 25
      +1
      Straus_zloy
      Hello, colleague!
      Apparently, the author had in mind 100 km / s. Translation costs.
      1. Straus_zloy
        Straus_zloy 18 October 2012 14: 39
        0
        Very smart

        And good day to you!

        About 100000 km / s is also doubtful, this is already a third of the speed of light, relativistic effects will clearly appear
        1. postman
          postman 18 October 2012 16: 47
          +3
          Quote: Straus_zloy
          this is already a third of the speed of light, relativistic effects will begin to manifest clearly

          very little, according to Lorentz transformations:


          For v = 100 000km / s
          we get: Time of a stationary object = 1,0606 time of a moving object, about 6% (per day 1 hour 26 minutes, per year 22 days)
          rather, of course, use:


          Relativistic effects closer to 300 km / s will affect significantly
  9. Aryan
    Aryan 18 October 2012 13: 05
    0
    here are stupid people wasting resource drain to reach the holes in the heavenly dome, which they call "stars" fool
  10. Skavron
    Skavron 18 October 2012 13: 32
    -1
    Straight Strugatsky ...
    But just deep space is not for humanity. Our life is too short for its development.
  11. snek
    snek 18 October 2012 15: 22
    +2
    Great article! Many thanks to Kirill for the work!
    1. postman
      postman 18 October 2012 16: 03
      0
      Quote: snek
      Great article! Many thanks to Kirill for the work!

      Nikolay article zero, 99% illiterate, google translation without even processing rolled up the article .....
      It is necessary to send it (article) to the Commission of the Russian Academy of Sciences for Combating Pseudoscience
  12. Horla
    Horla 18 October 2012 15: 27
    0
    The heat released during a nuclear reaction is transferred to the working fluid (water, mercury, etc.), the working fluid flows out of the engine nozzle and pushes the spacecraft. As far as I know, the problem was the large size and the large mass of the installation, as well as the lack of an effective way of transferring heat from the reactor to the working fluid. Although, rumor has it that prototypes flew in Soviet times. And the author of an article from new Russian idiots, during a thermonuclear reaction, a temperature of several million degrees develops and none of the currently existing materials can withstand such a temperature, I’m silent about huge shock loads.
  13. postman
    postman 18 October 2012 15: 29
    +3
    [quote = Author Ryabov Kirill] Specific мощность liquid and solid fuel engines [/ quote]

    There is no such thing in engine building (jet D, all and LRE and TTRD and ERD, and YERD). There is specific impulse and specific thrust
    UM is the ratio of the power consumed by the engine to its mass (volume
    ).

    [quote = Author Ryabov Kirill] This means that during operation, they will be thrown out of a special nozzle small portions of a radioactive substance. After ejection portion of uranium, plutonium or other material with suitable properties explodes and gives the spacecraft a boost, hitting a special platesurrounding the ejection nozzle. [/ quote

    Everything that is written does not have anything to do with the Z-pinch (and the above diagram), everything is mixed in a bunch and uranium, plutonium and plasma, STILL add radon and generally okroshka turned out:

    1.No radioactive "powder" is thrown in, nor does anything explode.
    Where is the "injection" of plutonium or "uranium" powder?


    Anode, cathode and MHD generator (for receiving electric energy from the flow) and injection of a SECOND working case, to create a RADIATION SAFETY belt (like film cooling in a liquid propellant rocket engine) - is there still plutonium, radium uranium?
    2. Z-pinch principle: when a large current is transmitted through a plasma held by the magnetic inertial method, it will additionally shrink and heat under the influence of its magnetic field, turning into a powerful radiation source in the form of a linear plasma column.
    (the same can be obtained in Tokmak / ITER and in "Nova", "Gekko XII or" Dolphin-1 "

    3. "Washers" (5 cm) of deuterium and lithium (with tritium) inside will be compressed and heated (including lasers) before the start of thermonuclear fusion, the energy of which should set in motion the spacecraft.

    reaction: (a) Li (6) + n = He4 + T, kinetic energy yield of reaction products q, (MeV): 4.8, it is more profitable (but more difficult) to use: D + T = He4 + n ---> 17.6 MeV

    Different patterns of using lithium in the blanket are possible. Combining the DT reaction with reaction (a):Li (6) + D = 2Не4 + 22.4 MeV . As a result of reactions, ash is formed - an inert gas helium
    To control the direction of the fusion reaction products, it is planned to use an electromagnetic containment field with a narrow nozzle along which the reaction products will be ejected in the opposite direction to the ship.

    4. This project is called Decade Module 2, previously used by the US Department of Defense for military purposes.
    1. postman
      postman 18 October 2012 15: 30
      +3
      Quote: Author Ryabov Kirill
      At first glance it seems that such ЯRD is relatively simple

      This is not a nuclear taxiway, but fusion direct thrust.
      Z-pinch opened in 1957 ZETA - Zero-Energy Toroidal Assembly in England


      Quote: Author Ryabov Kirill
      To date, humanity has not yet conducted any experiments. with impulse YARD

      is it?
      Nance JE, Nuclear Pulse Propulsion, General Atomic report GA-5572, General Atomic, A Division of General Dynamics Corp., October 1964]
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher 18 October 2012 16: 19
        0
        By the way, the closest thing to the mmmmm ... the "thought" of the article is the nuclear engine mmmmmm ... of an American with a Slavic surname ... mmmm ... I don't remember, I came across six months ago ... There, like salt, is used , uranium ... or rather, a salt solution, like - uranium hexafluoride ... We'll have to look for information about him ...
        1. postman
          postman 18 October 2012 17: 49
          +2
          Quote: de_monSher
          uranium hexafluoride

          Uranium Hexafluoride (UF6)

          VERY POISONING !!!

          Quote: de_monSher
          is a nuclear engine mmmmmm ... an American,

          project "ROVER" YARD Nerva (flying) based on YARD series Kivi (bench)
          Orion project
          And where is the Slavic last name?
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher 18 October 2012 18: 29
            0
            Found...

            The engine proposed by Robert Zubrin ... only not uranium hexafluoride, but an aqueous solution of uranium tetrabromide ... in ...

            This project is closest in thought = rejecting speculation, and ignorance of the difference between the reaction of thermonuclear fusion and nuclear fission = those that the author tried to consider in the article ... here ...
  14. de_monSher
    de_monSher 18 October 2012 15: 59
    +1
    Very curious ... *)) Very, very curious.

    After ejection, a portion of uranium, plutonium, or other material with suitable properties explodes and gives the spacecraft an impulse, striking a special plate surrounding the ejecting nozzle.


    It's time ... to arrange a landing on Venus, and if it does not even exist, open the "Uranium Golconda" there, and transfer it to the Americans in full, so that they - "cope and give us a new technology" ... *)))
  15. Yves762
    Yves762 18 October 2012 16: 29
    0
    Takeoff / landing - let's say, orbital maneuvering - let's say too ... but (!) Interplanetary and interstellar (all the more) flights require fundamentally different methods of moving in space-time ....
    1. postman
      postman 18 October 2012 16: 53
      0
      Quote: Yves762
      Take-off landing

      This type is perhaps that from the asteroid or (at best) the moon will fly up.
      Thrust is small. All the more so from the earth - hard radiation

      For interplanetary, the most (calculation for this type) to Mars in 6 weeks (instead of 8 months)
      The larger the path (distance), the greater the speed in the acceleration section (then of course braking = equal to the acceleration)
      It will fly to A Centauri.
  16. Kir
    Kir 18 October 2012 18: 53
    0
    I wonder who can "remember" and tell you how this miracle was called and where to find it, in general, one curious "thing" was developed, a domestic low-flying cruise missile, a hypersonic direct-flow like on an atomic coolant, so the most important "joke" was that while it was flying healthy "infected" the terrain on the flight path,
    And as for the speed of light, it seems like it is not a constant and not the ultimate speed in the universe.
    1. de_monSher
      de_monSher 18 October 2012 19: 01
      0
      There was no such development, it seems ... And the legs "grow" from here, probably - they were testing the Tu 119, with a nuclear reactor on board. And then, they considered the whole thing unpromising, for that period of time the project was also closed ... and putting on the CD, a nuclear engine, somehow, is unprofitable. Moreover, all the same, it would be necessary to install the rector, and also load the working fluid - this is no longer a CR, but a CL - the Winged Battleship would have turned out in mass ... plus also to protect the electronics on board from radiation - a total mess. .. *)) after all, the task of the CD is to carry the warhead to the target, and not "splash" the dirt along the trajectory, including over its territory ... *)))
      1. Kir
        Kir 18 October 2012 19: 42
        0
        No, it was, that's just the point, first-hand information, the only question is at what stage ended. Unfortunately, my father died, so there is no one to clarify with him, this happened!
        And they closed it, it’s just because of the dirt, it seems.
    2. postman
      postman 19 October 2012 11: 41
      +1
      Quote: Kir
      like on an atomic coolant

      There's no such thing. Any coolant can be called atomic or molecular (or proton-electron neutron, etc.), since it consists of atoms and consists, including
      nuclear engine is:
      - solid-phase (AZ solid), the coolant passing through the b / w az turns into steam and the b / w nozzle expires = the infection is of course terrible.
      -Gas phase (gas in a gaseous plasma form), further as above in TF, only there is no convention transfer, only radiant energy (uranium plasma is encapsulated, it can not be separated, with the entrainment, but this is nonsense from the point of view of economics.)
      -You can certainly assume a liquid-phase NRE (it will work as a gas phase)

      Well, a direct-flow NRE can use the people principle (gas phase is preferable), but only in the ATMOSPHERE or Water.

      Direct exhaust pipes were developed by the Americans:
      R-1 complex with XJ53 turbojet engines of about 8000 kgf thrust (General Electric)

      and turbojet engines XJ39 and HTRE-3.

      and we have:
      M-50 (laboratory), M-30 bomber, Tu-114 PLO aircraft
      1. Kir
        Kir 19 October 2012 17: 17
        0
        Thank you very much for the information, that is, apart from the general "chatter on the topic" of the project itself, the CD either did not exist at all, or the infa was "well hidden".
  17. Justme
    Justme 18 October 2012 19: 52
    +1
    Somewhere in the 60s, we studied the possibility of creating more efficient rocket engines than classic rocket engines, then all kinds of options were mentioned, including something like that ..
    But they went into practical study - plasma-ion engines (successful testing in orbit was carried out as early as 1967) and nuclear engines with heating of the working fluid (hydrogen or ammonia was assumed).
    After that, ion-plasma engines were very often used.
    Why this is not particularly talked about.
    These engines require a fairly powerful source of electricity for their operation. The solar panels are somewhat weak and the solution was simple - compact nuclear reactors with thermionic emission elements were used ... And a very smart solution was obtained .. But the tacit question remained - well, the satellite (especially low-orbit) worked out and then what, where next? ..
    ..And here there is a certain silence ..
  18. ivant74ru
    ivant74ru 18 October 2012 19: 55
    +1
    But what about the environment? What will happen to us if nuclear powered vehicles fly overhead?
    1. Kir
      Kir 18 October 2012 20: 08
      0
      Probably mutating!
      But seriously, a complete answer to the question of the individual effect of radiation on the body has not been found, at least I have not heard. By the way, do you know that according to some studies the "tobacco" contains something like salt or "pure" plutonium.
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher 18 October 2012 22: 50
        0
        "tobacco" contains like the wrong salt or "pure" plutonium


        *)))) Well, if you consider cigarettes as a breeder, then yes - they probably have plutonium ... *))) bike ...

        And the reaction to radiation, each person is purely individual ... naturally there are some common symptoms, but in general - the organisms of different people lead very differently when irradiated ... *))
        1. Kir
          Kir 19 October 2012 02: 14
          0
          First of all, why the bike, the only thing I can’t point to is a documentary, it was long ago! And besides, what is the "dose". And I said this to the fact that we ourselves consume so much of all "rubbish" that if not quite " transcendental ", then it is a fact that we will die from him!
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher 19 October 2012 03: 03
            0
            Firstly, why the bike, the only thing I can’t point out is the documentary film, it was a long time ago!


            = Smiling = ... "Do not read the Bolshevik newspapers before dinner!" Advised Professor Preobrazhensky, to a certain Doctor Bormental. Although ... of course, the whole world is now sick with "Bolshevism" = just don't confuse Bolshevism as a trend, and VKP (b) as a structure =, there is nothing more to watch and listen to ... *)

            You see, I'll start from afar ... by and large, the opponents of smoking don't have a single argument. In fact, there is only one argument - lost profit from the business side. When they calculated this, they decided to take up arms against cigarettes, no longer reckoning with the "basic" principle of capitalism - "live yourself, let others live" = however, this principle exists only in theory =. So, the offensive against tobacco is on everyone - including such films. Believe me, the main rule of advertising and anti-advertising, of course, is "tell them to be heard. It doesn't matter what you say - the main thing is to see and hear" ... *)) Eh ... plutonium, then you say ... *)) ) gyyyyyyy ... I would probably, as an inveterate smoker, with 20 years of experience, would have collapsed into pieces long ago. Plutonium is almost not excreted from the body ... *))
            1. Kir
              Kir 19 October 2012 03: 27
              0
              The times of the past were under the USSR, just such a memory does not remember the "unnecessary", in the opinion of loved ones keeps! And so far as regards that advertising and other nonsense is generally ......, I was also frightened with a lot, and I "out of spite" will still create that "collection" that is on the verge of a "black list" of plants not to be confused with fucking drugs! or which cannot be kept under "normal conditions"
              By the way, actually, in tobacco there is a strange combination of "poison" and its antidote "sweet couple" nicotine-anabasine.
              Yes, but still, that the only thing on the rocket that seems to have recalled seems to be connected with the center of Keldysh.
  19. Nechai
    Nechai 18 October 2012 22: 01
    0
    Quote: de_monSher
    tested the Tu 119, with a nuclear reactor on board

    In the Kurchatovsk region (then) tests were carried out (naturally on the ground), the working fluid (hydrogen) passing through the reactor acquired energy. In real life, it looked like this - a jet stream burst from the ground into the zenith. Very radioactive, naturally.
    No jet engines, especially on Loval's nozzle, will be allowed to penetrate into deep space. Electromagnetic "sails", to begin with. Then the use of gravitational waves, etc.
    Kir - "no complete answer to the question of the individual effect of radiation on the body has been found"
    In women, libido rises sharply, with small and constant doses of radiation ...
    1. Kir
      Kir 18 October 2012 22: 41
      0
      I had in mind the maximum permissible dose, that it is for everyone their own
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher 19 October 2012 04: 17
        +1
        Kir

        *))))))))))))))) It’s just the same, it’s different, the reactions of organisms are different ... *) Mdya ... It’s washing you, take an example from Postman and start to get angry ... *))) Oh well ... *)

        See - when a person from 25 meters receives a bullet from PM, in the chest = not in the heart =. The bullet is the same. Kinetic energy is one and the same. The reaction in people is different, and strictly individual ... *) The analogy with the lethal dose of radiation is direct ... *)
        1. postman
          postman 19 October 2012 11: 14
          0
          Quote: de_monSher
          take an example from the Postman and start

          Sher don't have to tidy up the past. I apologized the same .....
          What can I carry in the teeth in public?
          / And so I already receive threats in PM .... bbbbbbboysya already, approach the computer / belay

          Quote: de_monSher
          The bullet is the same. Kinetic energy is one and the same.
          Not a valid analogy.
          The reaction in people is different, and strictly individual ..

          From what I saw (the results of injuries), I think the differences in the effect of a bullet on various human organisms (weight, simple, skin color) with the SAME ballistic of a bullet - WILL NOT.
          The energy is too great, in comparison with the opposing "material", the difference is on the verge of statistical error.

          Those differences that can be observed will be due to:
          - by chance * a bone, a button, a belt, etc. got into the path)
          - meeting corner.
          - environmental impact on the bullet
          -etc

          All the same, radiation is a weak effect and will really play a role:
          -physiology (how the thyroid gland, bone marrow, etc. of each individual works.
          - how many drank, ate the day before
          -overweight / underweight (fat)
          -properties of the skin and the presence of muscle mass
          well, etc.
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher 19 October 2012 16: 39
            0
            *)))))) Nevertheless, in his role ...

            -physiology (how the thyroid gland, bone marrow, etc. of each individual works.
            - how many drank, ate the day before


            At first I was even indignant, and I wanted to bring just these objections to you, but you yourself brought in the text ... *) Namely - what I ate, what I drank, the nature of the deposition of salts in the bones, what is worn on the person, the nature of the formation of peptide bonds, = for example, - whether there was an effect of the same alcohol = other factors - and these factors, you see, have absolutely random character ... *))

            Mdya, the analogy with a bullet is the most direct, even in the absorbed dose, if you translate into Joules per kilogram and Joules ... *) Yes, and for me, this is the most suitable analogy, at one time I caught a bullet from 15 meters ... chance helped , stuck in a pea-collar collar ... *)) Agree, you can draw an analogy, when trying to evaluate the impact of the same mmmmmmm ... alpha particles ... *)))
            1. postman
              postman 20 October 2012 02: 42
              0
              Quote: de_monSher
              the nature of the formation of peptide bonds,

              Do not overpower. went to sleep. a hard day in Russia 20e after the end of the quarter.
  20. Kir
    Kir 19 October 2012 04: 29
    0
    Quite a bit!