Military Review

Israeli KAZ "Raam Segol": for several years they waited for a rocket to fire on a tank

120
Source: david-2.livejournal.com

The active protection complex "Trophy" has already become the hallmark of Israel, because it is equipped not only Tanks Merkava, but also the American Abrams. However, before it was adopted by the military, other options were considered, among which was Raam Segol. This system was remembered not so much for its way of countering incoming projectiles, but for not quite full-fledged combat tests, during which the Arabs did not fire a single missile at the tanks.


Not destruction, but disguise


In general, of course, the Israeli military is well able to draw the right conclusions and apply them in practice. To a large extent, this also applies to the armored forces of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), which have gained extensive experience by participating in wars with the Arab states. Moreover, it concerned not only the tactical component, but also the understanding of what threats a tank might face on the battlefield.

For example, the Arab-Israeli wars showed that the number of armored vehicles destroyed by enemy tank fire is only a quarter of the total number of losses. But the vast majority of cars became victims of cumulative rockets, grenades and anti-tank mines. This had an impact not only on the characteristics and subsequent modernization of the Merkav, but also on the creation and mass production of such technically complex systems as active protection systems (KAZ).

Unfortunately, Israeli scientists and the military are very reluctant to share information, but information leaked to the media gives some insight into stories work on tank active protection. One of its stages was a complex called "Raam Segol", which means "Purple Thunder" in Russian.

The elements of Raam Segol are clearly visible: a radar station and mortars for setting aerosol curtains. Source: army-tech.net
The elements of Raam Segol are clearly visible: a radar station and mortars for setting aerosol curtains. Source: army-tech.net

Development work on "Raam Segol" for tanks "Merkava" began in the first half of the 90s. They involved units of the Israeli military and aviation industry under the general direction of the Ministry of Defense. Judging by the available data, the military industry was responsible for creating the element base and adapting the complex for the tank, but the aircraft manufacturers concentrated on a radar station to detect incoming projectiles.

The Raam Segol included a set of radar stations installed on the tank turret, an on-board computer and mortars for launching aerosol grenades. The principle of operation of the system, as it has already become clear, was quite different from the Trophy familiar to us and consisted not in the destruction of ammunition attacking the tank, but in camouflage due to an aerosol screen. And, of course, this product was only effective against guided missiles. In general, it could be said that the complex was more related to optical-electronic suppression.

It worked in the following way. Continuously scanning the surrounding area around the protected vehicle, the radar detected approaching dangerous objects and transmitted data about this to the on-board computer. He, in turn, calculated the direction and approximate trajectory of the projectile and deployed the tower in its direction, firing a volley of aerosol mortars. As a result, the operator of the rocket fired at the tank lost sight of it. If the missile was controlled by a laser beam, then the guidance failed due to the poor permeability of the masking curtain.

When did the Arabs not have rockets?


The development of the Raam Segol active protection complex required not only field tests, but also verification in real combat conditions. To do this, at the end of 1996, a separate tank company "Nakhshol" was created, the vehicles of which were equipped with this protective system, and only experienced tankers were recruited into the number of crews.

The exam for Nakhshol was planned to be quite difficult, since the company was supposed to operate in southern Lebanon, where the Israeli army held part of the territory along the entire length of the border. The specific place where the Merkavas were based with the Raam Segol complexes was the Rihan stronghold, one of the most remote and dangerous. Apparently, the choice of this site was due to the fact that fierce fighting there was quite common, and this, in turn, would help to fully appreciate the capabilities and potential of active defense.

Tankers of the Nakhshol company pose on their Merkava equipped with KAZ. Source: overtdefense.com
Tankers of the Nakhshol company pose on their Merkava equipped with KAZ. Source: overtdefense.com

All actions of the newly minted company took place in the strictest secrecy. It even got to the point that the infantrymen serving in the stronghold were forbidden to climb the tanks. In addition, tankers were ordered to cover airborne radar stations and aerosol mortars with special covers, which were only allowed to be removed when performing combat missions.

Initially equipped with KAZ "Merkava" performed tasks quite typical for those places, which were generally limited to supporting infantry positions during an enemy attack, as well as creating tank ambushes. However, over time, the list expanded with night raids, during which the vehicles traveled in pairs across the terrain or went to combat positions without infantry cover. According to sources, the icing on the cake was day trips, moreover, to those places where the enemy could be on commanding heights. Previously, this was not practiced, since the tanks became convenient targets for shelling with grenade launchers and rockets from the Lebanese side.

In general, the actions of "Nakhshol" began to look more and more like a deliberate call on enemy fire on their own vehicles - you just can't do anything to test active protection in action. And in fact, a lot of things flew in: the tanks came under mortar fire, the Arabs hit them with grenade launchers and covered them with rocket artillery of various sizes. Only anti-tank missiles did not fly, on which they planned to test the Raam Segol, because it protected just from them.

Apparently, the Lebanese simply did not have anti-tank missile systems, and if they did, they were used for other purposes. Ultimately, Nahshol stayed in southern Lebanon for about three years and was withdrawn from there in May 2000. During this time, not a single anti-tank guided missile was fired at her tanks, although there is information that some kind of ATGM (it turned out to be impossible to clearly identify) nevertheless flew by and exploded near the tank tracks, but the KAZ did not work on it.

Thus, the Raam Segol system was never tested in combat conditions against what it was created for in principle. Certain results in general operation, including the work of the radar, of course, were obtained, but its continued existence turned out to be a big question. The system could not counteract grenades and artillery cumulative shells - they did not require flight control, which means that the aerosol curtain actually became useless. Here, perhaps, the onboard radars, which determined the direction of the shot, were more beneficial, and thus made it easier for the tankers to hit enemy firing points.

In the end, work on the Raam Segol was stopped due to lack of prospects, however, with a high degree of probability, its components - primarily the radar - were used to create the already more advanced Trophy active protection.
Author:
120 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 24 August 2022 04: 41
    +12
    Here, perhaps, the onboard radars, which determined the direction of the shot, carried more benefits.
    This is also the result! It is important here that they did not wait until KAZ became perfect and affordable, but they set what they had.
  2. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 24 August 2022 05: 29
    +11
    Thank you for the article. I didn't expect to learn so many new things.
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 24 August 2022 09: 45
      +10
      hi And what happened to this Merkava, did the ZIPPO lighter catch fire in the fighting compartment?
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 24 August 2022 10: 36
        +5
        Quote: tralflot1832
        hi And what happened to this Merkava, did the ZIPPO lighter catch fire in the fighting compartment?

        The engine caught fire. Nobody is safe.
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 24 August 2022 10: 44
          +7
          Why did the emergency extinguishing system of the engine compartment not work? Was there a fire impact.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 24 August 2022 11: 17
            +5
            Quote: tralflot1832
            Why did the emergency extinguishing system of the engine compartment not work? Was there a fire impact.

            I just do not know.
        2. Fitter65
          Fitter65 24 August 2022 14: 15
          +7
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          The engine caught fire. Nobody is safe.

          As always myself. Moreover, the tank had already been decommissioned for 4 years, and was waiting for disposal. But the weather was hot, winds were blowing from the desert, sand was rubbing on the hull of the tank - a charge of static electricity was accumulating. Well, the static was discharged unsuccessfully, and nearby everyone can see that there is dry grass that could be blown into the engine compartment by the wind, so it caught fire from a discharge of static electricity. Why even smoke? It was the paint that started to burn in the empty engine compartment, and then the fire extinguishing system worked, the tank was washed and, like a new one, was sent for recycling.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 24 August 2022 14: 49
            +3
            Quote: Fitter65
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            The engine caught fire. Nobody is safe.

            As always myself. Moreover, the tank had already been decommissioned for 4 years, and was waiting for disposal. But the weather was hot, winds were blowing from the desert, sand was rubbing on the hull of the tank - a charge of static electricity was accumulating. Well, the static was discharged unsuccessfully, and nearby everyone can see that there is dry grass that could be blown into the engine compartment by the wind, so it caught fire from a discharge of static electricity. Why even smoke? It was the paint that started to burn in the empty engine compartment, and then the fire extinguishing system worked, the tank was washed and, like a new one, was sent for recycling.

            This makes no sense.
            1. Fitter65
              Fitter65 24 August 2022 15: 00
              +9
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              This makes no sense.

              Why nonsense? Have you ever seen the Israeli army suffer losses? They themselves said for spontaneous combustion - what do you want to say that Israeli technology is at the level of Ukrainian spontaneously igniting T-64s? I gave you an example of reasoned evidence of non-combat damage to Israeli military equipment. And then there are no combat losses, but the tanks are burning.
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 24 August 2022 15: 43
                +4
                Quote: Fitter65
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                This makes no sense.

                Why nonsense? Have you ever seen the Israeli army suffer losses? They themselves said for spontaneous combustion - what do you want to say that Israeli technology is at the level of Ukrainian spontaneously igniting T-64s? I gave you an example of reasoned evidence of non-combat damage to Israeli military equipment. And then there are no combat losses, but the tanks are burning.

                Well, since 2006, we have not had combat losses in tanks. What to do?
                1. Fitter65
                  Fitter65 24 August 2022 16: 35
                  +7
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  Well, since 2006, we have not had combat losses in tanks. What to do?

                  Well, just self-ignite.
          2. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 25 August 2022 02: 12
            +4
            Quote: Fitter65
            Why even smoke?

            From a mixture of oil and gasoline in a bottle, flown in from "peaceful demonstrators". It burns beautifully, though then the tank returned to the base, the carbon deposits were washed off, the burnt spot was touched up, and the show ended at this point. These are the only photos left on the web. fellow
        3. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 25 August 2022 02: 04
          +3
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          The engine caught fire.

          It's not an engine, it would smoke from the exhaust grille. This is a bottle of fuel on the armor is on fire.
        4. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 14: 45
          +3
          This is not an engine, but the Renk transmission flew, knocked out hot oil and it blazed, you can see the transmission roof is open and the tower is turned for three hours.
        5. Igorash
          Igorash 26 August 2022 11: 07
          -1
          The engines on them are very weak and very often go out often ... and in this way too ...
          1. merkava-2bet
            merkava-2bet 26 August 2022 16: 50
            +1
            The engines are the best in the world, German MTU880, with a resource of 1500 hours and a power of 1500 hp.
      2. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 25 August 2022 02: 07
        +1
        Quote: tralflot1832
        And what happened to this Merkava

        The fuel bottle arrived. The usual thing. But for a modern tank, this will only spoil the paint. Spectacular, but useless, like fireworks.
  3. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 24 August 2022 06: 02
    +9
    Unfortunately, Israeli scientists and the military are very reluctant to share information

    Do it right ...
    Our scientists also need to learn to keep their mouths shut ... otherwise some very smart doctors of science do not know where to stop when talking with the Anglo-Saxons.
    They spread secrets on a blue eye, where for money ... and where because of liberal views.
    The Merkava is a good tank for the desert ... you can see everything for several kilometers there ... you don’t have dense forests or full-flowing rivers and streams ... no swamps or deep ravines ... a blunder.
    And on the tank, all the bells and whistles ... are for a full-fledged battle with local partisans.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 24 August 2022 06: 12
      +12
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Our scientists also need to learn to keep their mouths shut ... otherwise some very smart doctors of science do not know where to stop when talking with the Anglo-Saxons.

      good
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      It is important here that they did not wait until KAZ became perfect and affordable, but they set what they had.

      yes Israeli efficiency is amazing, as are the end results of battles using military innovations.
      They do not harness the horse in front of the cart and do not boast "in the world" with their concepts.
      1. Dedok
        Dedok 24 August 2022 08: 38
        +4
        Quote: yuriy55
        Israeli efficiency is amazing, as are the end results of battles using military innovations.

        yes, although there is a problem with the "regulation" of financial flows, but they understand what independence is
    2. Dedok
      Dedok 24 August 2022 08: 36
      +2
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Our scientists also need to learn to keep their mouths shut ... otherwise some very smart doctors of science do not know where to stop when talking with the Anglo-Saxons.

      you need to appreciate such people, but they have long been accustomed to silence
    3. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 24 August 2022 10: 47
      +2
      I am looking for a photo of a merkava after an explosion on an anti-tank mine. Only a specialist can determine if it is a tank. True, it was a long time ago.
      1. Shark Lover
        Shark Lover 25 August 2022 03: 22
        -1
        do not troll them, they have no analogues))))). The very best))). Probably the tigers on our front were also promoted, all sorts of 508 battalions there, even the Ferdinands were unkillable, wherever they went. All this is good for such conflicts as theirs, with abreks, moreover, if a mattress flag looms behind your back. Beautiful, powerful, no doubt, our tigers looked at the same, probably.
    4. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 25 August 2022 03: 19
      +4
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      a tank for the desert ... a view there for several kilometers to see everything ... you don’t have dense forests or full-flowing rivers and streams ... no swamps or deep ravines ...

      Another cliche, the desert is only in the south of Israel.
      The central part of Israel is suburban development interspersed with forest plantations and agricultural fields.


      Neighborhoods of Jerusalem - mountains in greenery:


      And the north of the country also does not spoil much with plains:


      Yes, and in the south is not quite the desert that you thought:
  4. certero
    certero 24 August 2022 06: 46
    +14
    And in connection with the article, the question immediately arises where is the Russian complex for active protection of tanks? Why didn’t we see a single tank equipped with such a complex during our time?
    1. Sebostyuan
      Sebostyuan 24 August 2022 08: 34
      +3
      Don't rub salt in the wound!
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Sergei_tactics
        Sergei_tactics 24 August 2022 11: 12
        +8
        There is no active protection system on the tanks Leopard (Germany), Leclerc (France), Challenger (Great Britain), Altai (Turkey), K2 (South Korea), Leopards (Italy), Leopards (Spain), Type 99 (China) and so on . - it’s easier to name who has KAZ. And this is 1,5 countries in the whole world - Israel and part of the US tank fleet. In short, is Shoigu also to blame? Or are the defense ministers of these countries also being dragged into jail?
        1. DenVB
          DenVB 24 August 2022 11: 42
          -3
          Quote: Sergey_tactics
          Or are the ministers of defense of these countries also being dragged into jail?

          When the tanks of these countries go to war, where hundreds of them will be burned, the ministers will no doubt be dragged to jail.
          1. Sergei_tactics
            Sergei_tactics 24 August 2022 12: 55
            +8
            Dada, the Americans in Vietnam lost about 60 thousand. military personnel, about 300 tanks and more than 3000 thousand. aircraft. Tell me that McNamara was convicted and jailed.
            1. DenVB
              DenVB 24 August 2022 13: 09
              -3
              Quote: Sergey_tactics
              Dada, the Americans in Vietnam lost about 60 thousand. military personnel, about 300 tanks and more than 3000 thousand. aircraft. Tell me that McNamara was convicted and jailed.

              I will tell you that the American Defense Ministry did everything to equip the US Armed Forces with the most modern and high-tech weapons at that time. Such that a weapon capable of reducing the losses of American troops was created, but for unknown reasons the troops did not receive it, I don’t know. If you know examples please let me know.
              1. Sergei_tactics
                Sergei_tactics 24 August 2022 14: 08
                -1
                I have always been interested in the motives of ardent American patriots living in some kind of Russian hole. They love the achievements of the American military-industrial complex more than Americans from some Kansas or Oklahoma).
                Let's tell me about the best weapons if the Americans started the war in Vietnam with the modernization of the WW2 rifle - M-14 in their hands. And only when they saw the Kalash in the hands of the partisans, they urgently began to change their shoes on the go for the war in the jungle, creating a clumsy alternative in the form of the M-16
                And yes, I didn’t see an answer for something - what about the McNamara trial, which allowed the loss of 60 thousand. the Yankees and hundreds and thousands of destroyed pieces of equipment. you wrote
                When the tanks of these countries go to war, where hundreds of them will be burned, the ministers will no doubt be dragged to jail.
                1. DenVB
                  DenVB 24 August 2022 14: 23
                  +2
                  Quote: Sergey_tactics
                  And yes, I didn’t see an answer for something - what about the McNamara trial, which allowed the loss of 60 thousand. the Yankees and hundreds and thousands of destroyed pieces of equipment

                  This is because you have not mastered the concept of context. You read the phrase and see only it. When a person with normal intellectual development reads a text, he perceives each sentence in the context of all previous ones. My phrase should have been understood in the context of the discussion of KAZ and its absence on our tanks. Now try to read it again and understand it in this context. When you demonstrate this ability, we will continue our entertaining discussion.
                  1. Sergei_tactics
                    Sergei_tactics 24 August 2022 14: 59
                    +1
                    Yes, of course, you have some kind of hidden sacred meaning in the text, but unfortunately I don’t understand it. Wow)
                  2. svoroponov
                    svoroponov 31 August 2022 19: 09
                    -1
                    KAZ is not widely put on equipment due to certain problems. One of them is the defeat of personnel walking or hiding behind the tank during attacks, next to the tank or being on the armor as a landing party.
                    Blocking by means of electronic warfare radar detection of the approach of ATGMs. Not the ability to intercept projectiles flying above a certain speed (I have already forgotten the data). There are some more. Therefore, the installation of KAZ on tanks must be approached carefully so as not to harm ourselves.
                2. musketon64
                  musketon64 24 August 2022 18: 34
                  -1
                  Quote: Sergey_tactics
                  And only when they saw the Kalash in the hands of the partisans, they urgently began to change their shoes on the go for a war in the jungle, creating a clumsy alternative in the form of the M-16

                  The Americans adopted the M-16 for other reasons. Study this question better.
                  Here's a "seed" for you:
                  "One of the results of this study was the conclusion that it is necessary to create for the US Army a light weapon with a small recoil momentum, leading automatic fire with special lightweight small-caliber cartridges, effective at a distance of no more than 400-500 meters, compensating for a high rate of fire and a greater probability of hitting a target on fire in bursts, a smaller mass of a single bullet. Accordingly, in 1957, the army command launched a competition to create a light army rifle (LMR - Lightweight Military Rifle) with a caliber of the order of 5,5-5,6 mm (0,22 inches)."
                  And, for your information, in the jungle, a larger caliber is desirable. Often for this reason, American soldiers demanded that they return the good old M14 instead of the unreliable M16 designed for a low-impulse cartridge.
                3. Shark Lover
                  Shark Lover 25 August 2022 03: 32
                  0
                  Yes, do not argue and do not waste the resource of your fingers on disputes with these. They have all the best. We have the same Armata. The truth did not fight anywhere, but the best. So are these, sitting on the beach and making exclusives. Where did this beautiful bandura fight? Our T-62 fought more in Afghanistan. Everything burns, the question is how many matches to bring. Right now, in Ukraine, the guys are shooting at a group of two Bandera fighters, imagine they will see such a spectacle-merkava, they will start 10 pieces, everyone will want to try it for a tooth. the saturation of anti-tank defense is terrible, only the tactics of use, maneuver, stamina and crew training win
        2. musketon64
          musketon64 24 August 2022 11: 57
          -4
          Quote: Sergey_tactics
          There is no active protection system on the tanks Leopard (Germany), Leclerc (France), Challenger (Great Britain), Altai (Turkey), K2 (South Korea), Leopards (Italy), Leopards (Spain), Type9 99 (China) and so on . - it’s easier to name who has KAZ. And this is 1,5 countries in the whole world - Israel and part of the US tank fleet. In short, is Shoigu also to blame? Or are the defense ministers of these countries also being dragged into jail?

          And she, KAZ, they don’t need. They have almost no tanks left and they are not going to seriously fight. For this they have "useful Papuans". Of the countries you named, only the Turks sometimes fight, but they are rather poor and do not have their own proven technologies.
          What I want to say about Shoigu. While we are collecting money through our volunteers for LDNR fighters for copters, radio stations and other "sporting goods", this figure is throwing tens of millions of dollars on tank rides with shooting. Here, our journalists somehow calculated that so much money was spent on this event alone that it would be enough to purchase T-90 tanks to equip a tank company.
          1. Sergei_tactics
            Sergei_tactics 24 August 2022 12: 59
            +1
            Let's cancel any events all over the country now - from competitions to celebrations. Yes, why trifle, let's put on rags and eat turnips with kvass. Maybe then we’ll buy two companies of T-90s.
            Questionable logic your reasoning. There is the State Defense Order, there are budgets for this or that program.
            1. musketon64
              musketon64 24 August 2022 13: 34
              +7
              Quote: Sergey_tactics
              Let's cancel any events all over the country now - from competitions to celebrations. Yes, why trifle, let's put on rags and eat turnips with kvass. Maybe then we’ll buy two companies of T-90s.
              Questionable logic your reasoning. There is the State Defense Order, there are budgets for this or that program.

              Don't be foolish. We had more than 600 billion dollars in Western banks, but they collected money through SMS for the treatment of children. Why wasn't it included in the budget?
              But they laid it down and held the grandiose World Cup and the Winter Olympics on a grand scale. Tens of billions of dollars were threatened for this show, but the UAV production plant will have to wait, right? Why is this worthless show "Tank Biathlon", which no one watches. Nowhere to put the money!? Give them better to the fighters of the people's militia of the LDNR. They will put them to better use.
              But Israel does not like any such events. Maybe for this reason, Israel has excellent drones, and the Iron Dome, and KAZ on tanks, which they test in real theater conditions, and do not throw money at all sorts of crap.
              1. Sergei_tactics
                Sergei_tactics 24 August 2022 13: 54
                -5
                And you let's not flood. We are discussing the topic of KAZ and KOEP in military public. If you want to cry about sick children and the money of the oligarchs, then write either to Dozhd's website or to the website of the prosecutor's office. They will understand you there.
                1. musketon64
                  musketon64 24 August 2022 18: 17
                  +2
                  Quote: Sergey_tactics
                  And you let's not flood. We are discussing the topic of KAZ and KOEP in military public. If you want to cry about sick children and the money of the oligarchs, then write either to Dozhd's website or to the website of the prosecutor's office. They will understand you there.

                  You have recently appeared on the VO website and apparently are not yet aware that this "military public" discusses problems of a military plan, and economic, and political and historical, and even sports.
                  If you want to discuss the topic of KAZ, then in the Russian army it is not in service with armored vehicles. But Israel has. Here is such a schedule.
                  But you also don’t want to cry about the tankers of the Russian army who died in the Northern Military District, who burned down in their tank due to the lack of this option? And the children left without fathers, apparently, too.
                  So I ask once again the same rhetorical question: why is there money in Russia for all sorts of crap, but not for the most necessary? And appeals to the prosecutor's office, which you advise me, are clearly not the right place here. Budgets are planned in other offices. Often at the MOST high level in favor of image projects at the expense of security. In our country .... NOT in Israel, where this security is a PRIORITY.
                  1. Sergei_tactics
                    Sergei_tactics 25 August 2022 05: 07
                    0
                    I was on the site when this site was still being promoted. So do not pyzhtes in the old. Previously, on this site, people like you and other whiners from the series "everything is gone, yachts are aligarhav, there is not enough money for pregnant pensioners" were put in their place. Therefore, in the heading "Armament" they wrote and commented about weapons. Then there were individuals. Whose comments can be published as publications. But they all left because the site turned into a dump. Because now a lot of fighters against the authorities have started up, who have made a tribune out of this site. And instead of discussing subject articles, we read 1000 times rewritten whining about how bad everything is and how everything is gone. I'm not interested in your whining. If this site was called not Military Review, but Rain or Echo or Medusa, then I would not have anything against it - this is just your garbage dump. And this site is called Military Review. And why the hell are you going to come out here to discuss something that is not related to the topic of the article and litter the comments with your flood?
                    1. musketon64
                      musketon64 26 August 2022 12: 20
                      +2
                      Quote: Sergey_tactics
                      I was on the site when this site was still being promoted.

                      Sergei_tactics
                      Registered on July 22, 2022 05:17.
                      -------------------------------------------
                      .....But they all left, because the site TURNED into a GASKET.

                      We read further:
                      ..... If this site was called not Military Review, but Rain or Echo or Medusa, then I would not have anything against it - this is just your GASPANT.

                      So what are you here climbed into this, in your words, DASH GRINDER, into which, in your words, "IN" has turned? Put the whiners in their place? laughing Not convinced! Apparently patriotic citizens should not ask uncomfortable questions to the authorities, but only joyfully yell Urya-ya!!! and stigmatize pro-Western liberals. Or keep quiet in a rag, they say - it's not our business. They THERE know better where to spend the people's money.
                      Israel KAZ has and has something to discuss, and this was discussed.
                      But Russia does not have KAZ, so it remains to discuss foreign ones and (wine) why not and sympathize with our Heroes tankers, who are deprived of such systems that save the lives of crews.
                      I'm not interested in your whining.

                      Well, as they say, pass by ...
                      1. Sergei_tactics
                        Sergei_tactics 26 August 2022 12: 30
                        -4
                        It's funny)) why are you writing this to me? Butthurt itches underneath? What does patriotism and silence have to do with it, cudgel? I am anti-flood. That is, when in the topic about KAZ we are discussing not KAZ, but pissing people like you about "where did you spend the money." Your vyser is completely by.
                        And yes, about the time of registration - you can see the little mind is not enough to understand that people sometimes leave the site, then return, re-register because the entrance is lost. And sometimes they get banned and they re-login again. But you never know what reasons that do not concern you
                      2. musketon64
                        musketon64 26 August 2022 13: 09
                        +3
                        Quote: Sergey_tactics
                        And yes, about the time of registration - you can see the little mind is not enough to understand that people sometimes leave the site, then return,

                        I asked you a QUESTION: "Why did you return to this "garbage dump", weirdo?"
                        -------------------------------------------------- -----------
                        Quote: Sergey_tactics
                        That is, when in the topic about KAZ we are discussing not KAZ, but pissing people like you about "where did you spend the money."

                        And I wrote in the topic about KAZ that we will not see our Russian KAZ for a long time or we will never see it with such an attitude of the authorities towards the money and lives of our Warriors. Why are you so bombed then!?
                        I answered your own post - Europeans don't need KAZs, because they don't fight. These systems are installed by countries that are at war and can afford such an option.
                        Russia is constantly at war and having enough money, spends it anywhere, but not on defense systems. About the principles of operation of KAZ and their application in a combat situation, you, in fact, didn’t blather anything.
                      3. Sergei_tactics
                        Sergei_tactics 26 August 2022 15: 10
                        -3
                        I asked you a QUESTION: "Why did you return to this "garbage dump", weirdo?"

                        none of your fucking business
                        We had more than 600 billion dollars in Western banks, but they collected money through SMS for the treatment of children. Why wasn't it included in the budget?

                        Was it some other idiot who wrote it, or was it you?
                        Russia is constantly at war

                        You screwed up even in such a simple matter. NATO countries are involved in an order of magnitude more conflicts than Russia. Which for the entire time of existence since 1991 had only one big war from 1994 to 2001. This is for 31 years.
                      4. musketon64
                        musketon64 26 August 2022 21: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Sergey_tactics
                        none of your fucking business

                        Yes, I just asked, what is it that you are so in the garbage heaps that everything pulls and pulls? Well, eat it, don't be sloppy. laughing
                        Quote: Sergey_tactics
                        We had more than 600 billion dollars in Western banks, but they collected money through SMS for the treatment of children. Why wasn't it included in the budget?

                        Was it some other idiot who wrote it, or was it you?


                        Well, it's not like that, is it? I gave you as another example of the reckless waste of public money, apart from other underfunded programs for safety, health, etc., among other things.
                        Children were collected for treatment on state channels (and not those that you mentioned in your hysteria), and then proudly joyful epithets about "cool tank biathlon". And how much money was spent on him modestly kept silent. I'll tell you this, weirdo - the guys on the front line are more happy with the next parcel with "sporting goods" brought by volunteers and are perplexed by these stupid costly rides.

                        NATO countries are involved in an order of magnitude more conflicts than Russia. Which for the entire time of existence since 1991 had only one big war from 1994 to 2001. This is for 31 years.

                        What are you?! Russia has been in Syria since 2015. If you didn't know. Or the notorious "Northern Wind" in 2014-2015 - it doesn't count. Or do you think it's the militia there with the dill themselves sorted out? I’m not even talking about Georgia, where the Georgians were technically better equipped than the Russian army. It was then that a roasted rooster pecked our "peaceful" leadership, at what bottom is our army. Some conclusions were drawn, but, as always, there are problems with the implementation.
                        You are clearly confusing - to take part and really fight. Only the United States is actually at war, the rest only participate in supporting roles. Or they pretend that -- like "participate". The Russian Armed Forces is a continuation of the USSR SA. Traditions, experience of waging wars, large and small, all come from there. But the most important legacy is WEAPONS, which are still fighting. Modern Russia has no money for modern rearmament. But there is for the whole x ... nude. Not counting the fact that the pra_ebe in WESTERN banks as a result of sanctions. Now no KAZs, no money. It's about who's screwed up here. Actually, you are no better, since you still cannot understand the obvious truths: as long as the liberals are in power, our country has vague prospects.
                        I'm tired of explaining this to a fool, so I'll heed the advice:
                        Yes, do not argue and do not waste the resource of your fingers on disputes with these.
                      5. Sergei_tactics
                        Sergei_tactics 27 August 2022 17: 50
                        -4
                        Why do you write such long rants? They are still meaningless and useless. I won't even read
                      6. musketon64
                        musketon64 27 August 2022 18: 57
                        0
                        Quote: Sergey_tactics
                        Why do you write such long rants? They are still meaningless and useless. I won't even read

                        Many letters - did not master. It's for you, fucking tactician, not to dig in the garbage. lol
                      7. Sergei_tactics
                        Sergei_tactics 28 August 2022 13: 46
                        -3
                        That's a lot of letters. Doesn't make sense. What else can a roaring rooster like you give out. You probably think that I read all the vyser freaks like you? If there is shit on the road, then I don't need to touch it with my hands to understand what it is. Since you are stupid, I will explain this allegory - shit is what you consider your opinion. Do not write me anymore. So you've done your job - dirtied the comments with your stupid cock crow
                      8. musketon64
                        musketon64 30 August 2022 08: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: Sergey_tactics
                        You probably think that I read all the vyser freaks like you?

                        Also how you read. Yes, behind the letters you can’t, or rather you don’t want to, understand the meaning that I want to bring to your stupid head. But I won't do it again. As the Romans say --.... reasonable is enough.
                        It is people like you who turn to personalities and insults that turn any site into a garbage dump. And sites mercilessly ban people like you, which you yourself admitted - stupid hamlo.
              2. ycuce234-san
                ycuce234-san 25 August 2022 07: 30
                0
                Quote: musketone64
                Why is this worthless show "Tank Biathlon", which no one watches.

                Biathlon stimulates sales of armored vehicles to foreign customers and supports their production and research in this area. Without it, innovations in this area will almost cease to appear, since it is expensive to explore for your own money and not for proceeds from abroad.
                By the way, ships should also be sold, which is not being done yet.
                1. musketon64
                  musketon64 26 August 2022 12: 35
                  +1
                  Quote: ycuce234-san
                  Biathlon stimulates sales of armored vehicles to foreign customers and supports their production and research in this area. Without it, innovations in this area will almost cease to appear, since it is expensive to explore for your own money and not for proceeds from abroad.

                  Yes, he does not stimulate anything other than spending HIS money on this show. Foreign investors have not invested a penny in it. This is the usual excuse of the authorities for the uncomfortable questions of citizens. Especially now, when, after the imposition of sanctions, foreign customers do not dare to buy weapons from us, and some even cancel the concluded deals. Now the money is needed for the war, and not for their endless research of technology, which is needed right now on the front line - the best testing ground. Only there is nothing special to experience, except for the long-tested old infantry fighting vehicles and tanks.
              3. svoroponov
                svoroponov 31 August 2022 19: 18
                -1
                And why should he arrange. The money is partially not their own, but the help of the Americans.
                In terms of finances, it’s better not to touch them, since you don’t understand this business. Not everything that we put aside abroad could be spent. You drop deeper for what these funds. They have nothing to do with the concept of your personal wallet, which you could use at any time.
        3. hellcat2000
          hellcat2000 24 August 2022 12: 48
          +2
          Quote: Sergey_tactics
          There is no active protection system on the tanks Leopard (Germany), Leclerc (France), Challenger (Great Britain), Altai (Turkey), K2 (South Korea), Leopards (Italy), Leopards (Spain), Type 99 (China) and so on . - it’s easier to name who has KAZ.

          You are mistaken or misleading. On all the tanks you specified, there are active protection systems.

          If we talk about KAZ, then they are serially installed on tanks:

          Merkava Mk IV - Israel
          M1A2C - USA
          K2 PIP - South Korea
          M60T Sabra - Turkey

          Signed contracts:

          Challenger 3 - Britain
          Leopard 2A7А1 - Germany
          Altay - Turkey

          China, Japan may have already installed, countries talk little about all their aircraft. Norway chooses a KAZ tank for itself, a number of countries like Poland and Australia can equip their KAZ tanks in the near future.
        4. Vitaly gusin
          Vitaly gusin 27 August 2022 22: 45
          +3
          Quote: Sergey_tactics
          There is no active protection system on Leopard tanks (Germany)

          On February 22, 2021, Germany signed a contract with Israel for the purchase of the Trophy Active Protection System (APS) for its Leopard 2A7 main battle tanks (MBTs). Installation and integration of the system into the tank must be done by Kraus-Maffei Wegmann (KMW), Leopard manufacturer.
    3. SaLaR
      SaLaR 24 August 2022 09: 50
      -4
      Where is where .... But it is clear that not in Karaganda, but in other place.... request
    4. Sergei_tactics
      Sergei_tactics 24 August 2022 10: 55
      0
      If you suddenly still deign to read the article, and not just the title alone, you can find out that it (in the article) is not about KAZ, but about KOEP. Similar to our Shtora.
      1. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 24 August 2022 19: 49
        +4
        You correctly noted that this is KOEP and not KAZ, but the principles of operation are different. The curtain hits with a modulated beam of searchlights and lights up at night like a Christmas tree and it can be seen in any IR device, and Raam Sagol radar.
        Then the question is what is more massive on the battlefield, infrared devices or radio direction finders.
        1. Sergei_tactics
          Sergei_tactics 25 August 2022 07: 21
          0
          It was meant not only that both of them are KOEP (the principle and advantages are not discussed now), but also that both of them have installations for throwing aerosol grenades.
          By the way, about the visibility of IR searchlights - a working radar is even more noticeable. And there are enough means of destruction by radio emission
          1. merkava-2bet
            merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 15: 05
            0
            By the way, about the visibility of IR searchlights - a working radar is even more noticeable. And there are enough means of destruction by radio emission

            And the more noticeable the radar is, Shtora has visibility both in the visible range and also in the near infrared, and it can be seen very far, its task is to interfere with the operator or automatic missile guidance, by blinding with its powerful radiation, it was by force that they took it, otherwise the searchlights, and most importantly The curtain plows unnecessarily, whether there are missiles or not, since the tankers do not know about it, they have no indication.
            Raam Sagol precisely detects incoming missiles and builds a trajectory and a meeting point, primitive logic and then shoots aerosol grenades, that is, the radar detects any ATGM with any guidance system.
            Yes, and what means of destruction of mm-range radars, and even on tanks, were then, name their types?
            1. merkava-2bet
              merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 16: 35
              +2
              Here are a couple of examples.


            2. Sergei_tactics
              Sergei_tactics 26 August 2022 05: 11
              -4
              What kind of nonsense are you writing? A working radar is detected by any means of radio intelligence, from field to aviation. It's just a banner that says "shoot here." They hit the roof 120m or 152m and your Merkava will turn into a pile of rubbish. And if a working Curtain is visibility only within the line of sight, then a working radar of a tank is detected even by a simple Harmony within the radio horizon, no matter where he hid there.
              1. merkava-2bet
                merkava-2bet 26 August 2022 06: 38
                +3
                Seriously, mm range, well, I see you special, and even with a mine or a projectile, and what does the radio horizon have to do with it?
                1. Sergei_tactics
                  Sergei_tactics 26 August 2022 06: 47
                  -4
                  Stop smoking dope, it's bad for your brain. It is easy to detect a working radar, regardless of the range of its radiation. The only question is distance. And here we are talking about the radio horizon (we will not now tinker with the reasoning about the ability of short radio waves to be reflected from the ionosphere). Radiating radar is easy to locate and transmit data to any means of destruction. Including artillery.
                  1. Repellent
                    Repellent 26 August 2022 06: 53
                    -2
                    Quote: Sergey_tactics
                    Stop smoking dope, it's bad for your brain

                    Feed the troll. From the hand, practically. No, also, of course, an occupation ... winked
    5. Thorvlobnor IV
      Thorvlobnor IV 24 August 2022 11: 24
      0
      How did they not see it? A couple of dozens of T-90Ms are participating in the SVO, two tanks are lost, with photo proofs.
    6. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 25 August 2022 03: 31
      +1
      Quote: certero
      where is the Russian active tank protection complex?

      On the T-14, since 2019, it has been undergoing a program of state tests at research institutes of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

      Quote: certero
      Why didn’t we see a single tank equipped with such a complex during our time?

      Because the T-14 is still essentially not in the army, and no one has adapted the old Afganit tanks, it only fits the Armata and Kurganets-25 platforms.
  5. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 24 August 2022 08: 08
    -2
    The evil Palestinian genius does not stand still. They will come up with a lot of money. Moreover, the agreement with Iran on peaceful atom is entering the final stage.
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 25 August 2022 04: 03
      0
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Palestinian genius

      An honorable oxymoron. lol
  6. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 24 August 2022 09: 38
    +3
    In the end, work on "Raam Segol" was discontinued due to lack of prospects
    But I think they won’t put it in a distant box and under the cloth ...
  7. iouris
    iouris 24 August 2022 10: 31
    +4
    "Nakhshol" or "Nakhshol"? How to understand this, our former people?
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 25 August 2022 04: 09
      +2
      Quote: iouris
      "Nakhshol"

      Merging.
      נַחְשׁוֹל

      In literal translation - a splash, a big wave, an influx.

      But for anti-Semites and anti-Semites - separately. bully
      1. iouris
        iouris 25 August 2022 10: 19
        +2
        Anti-Semites and anti-Semites have turned into Russophobes. Yes, and many Zionists.
  8. certero
    certero 24 August 2022 12: 05
    -1
    Quote: Sergey_tactics
    If you suddenly still deign to read the article, and not just the title alone, you can find out that it (in the article) is not about KAZ, but about KOEP. Similar to our Shtora.

    I have read the article in full.
    The question about KAZ remained.
  9. certero
    certero 24 August 2022 12: 06
    +3
    Quote: Torvlobnor IV
    How did they not see it? A couple of dozens of T-90Ms are participating in the SVO, two tanks are lost, with photo proofs.

    Only on these tanks the active protection complex is not presented in this form
  10. ares1988
    ares1988 24 August 2022 12: 53
    -1
    A Jewish tank is coming. Opposite is an Arab. Arab, then grabs a machine gun and
    starts shooting. The tank, of course, doesn't get any worse.
    The Arab ends the first store, he quickly charges the second,
    discharges it into a tank, however, to no avail, the same fate befalls
    third store.
    Everything, there are no more cartridges, there were no grenades, the Arab freezes in shock.

    The tank pulls up closer, stops, the manhole cover opens.
    From there - a Jew -
    - - What, you run out of cartridges?
    Arab - Yeah .... =( Jew: - Do you want to sell ???
  11. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 24 August 2022 12: 58
    +7
    I didn’t understand one thing ... but what, the IDF doesn’t have captured ATGMs from Soviet, Russian and other manufacturers? arrange conditions at the training ground that are closest to combat and fire at .. it seems like a solution on the surface
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 24 August 2022 13: 32
      +4
      I think they did it, but they also wanted real practice.
    2. VOENOBOZ
      VOENOBOZ 24 August 2022 13: 52
      +4
      Rather, shelling was carried out, but the enemy should receive an answer.
  12. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 24 August 2022 13: 35
    +5
    Yes, the fact that Russia has been developing KAZ Arenai for 30 years still does not have a single tank in the army with KAZ is our shame and disgrace.

    If only a battalion or company was equipped with KAZ.

    For the last 40 years, starting from Afghanistan, we have been fighting with short breaks, but KAZ has not been and is not. There are no words.
    1. DenVB
      DenVB 24 August 2022 14: 59
      -1
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      Yes, the fact that Russia has been developing KAZ Arenai for 30 years still does not have a single tank in the army with KAZ is our shame and disgrace.

      Okay arena. Where at least Drozd? It was developed, tested and even launched in a small series 40 years ago. One can imagine the then level of electronics, especially Soviet electronics. Is it really difficult to reproduce in our time, with the modern development of electronics, at least the level of Drozd's capabilities? Yes, this is not a Trophy, not an Arena and not an Afghanite, but it would still provide some protection against missiles and grenades.

      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      There are no words.

      Yes, but obscene.
      1. GcleanD
        GcleanD 30 August 2022 16: 05
        0
        Okay arena. Where at least Drozd? It was developed, tested and even launched in a small series 40 years ago
        I heard that the plant with thrushes was destroyed, as well as many things ...
    2. cmax
      cmax 24 August 2022 21: 40
      +3
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      Yes, the fact that Russia has been developing KAZ Arenai for 30 years still does not have a single tank in the army with KAZ is our shame and disgrace.

      If only a battalion or company was equipped with KAZ.

      For the last 40 years, starting from Afghanistan, we have been fighting with short breaks, but KAZ has not been and is not. There are no words.

      This is not a new dress uniform, and KAZ is not visible at parades either. Wait a couple more decades.
    3. bobwings
      bobwings 26 August 2022 09: 52
      +3
      The Russian Federation does not really have its own microelectronics, the backlog is about 10 years. You can buy in China, but they are seriously lagging behind. In addition, an autocracy with relatively open borders cannot retain highly qualified specialists; patriotism will not get you far. In addition, there are so many restrictions on military industry workers that many people think twice before going to work there.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 26 August 2022 11: 39
        -3
        The Russian Federation does not really have its own microelectronics, the backlog is about 10 years. You can buy in China, but they are seriously lagging behind. In addition, an autocracy with relatively open borders cannot retain highly qualified specialists; patriotism will not get you far.


        No need to carry nonsense!!!

        In Germany, Merkel has 4 consecutive terms in power, and each time it is approved only by the parliament where her party has the majority, and not the population by popular vote - this is democracy, in the USA there are only 2 parties in parliament that only compete for the public, but in fact go in line with one politicians are also democracy, in the USA the president’s son becomes president, and the president’s wife is running for elections against one candidate whom all “media” pour slops on - this is democracy, ballot stuffing in the US elections against the current president but objectionable to the financial clans is democracy, in Canada Prime Minister Trudeau, the son of Prime Minister Trudeau is all democracy...

        and in Russia, where there are 5 parties in the parliament, and any party that gets 5% of the votes can go there, despite the fact that only 500 of its members can organize a party, where the president is elected in general elections and there are not a limited number of candidates - is this an autocracy?!

        What's in your head?!

        And with regard to military electronics, Russia does not have a critical lag, our missiles, our aircraft are in no way inferior to their counterparts from the USA, the EU or China.

        And the problem with KAZ is not that it cannot be created, but that it is not put on tanks, this is not an electronics problem, this is a problem for top-level managers and commanders.

        KAZ "Arena" has long been created, modernized, tested and even offered for export, but the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not want to put it on its tanks. What about electronics or politics?
        1. bobwings
          bobwings 27 August 2022 18: 32
          +1
          Oh, I beg you.. According to your Russian Federation, it’s a holy day of democracy. If there were elections in Germany in 38, in Italy in 33, and in North Korea, well, right now, their leaders would receive much more than 90%. And you have a lot of parties in the Duma, and the GDP won the elections absolutely honestly, and no one faked the elections. Only now you don’t have any democracy, what to do, the people love strong leaders, but they don’t give a damn about real democratic foundations. You do not have any freedom of speech, the right to real protest, and soon there will be no right to your own opinion. That is why you have elevated dissidents to the rank of criminals and traitors, who must be punished under the hooting of the crowd. And also it is necessary to plant the "Russian world" whether some people want this or not, where should they know what is best for them.
          And the best representatives of the humanitarian and scientific intelligentsia are fleeing from you, people who really love their homeland, but not its leader. Those who were not allowed to openly express their opinion, even if they did not have the opportunity to really change something.
          In America, in the 60s, crowds went to anti-war demonstrations against the Vietnam campaign, in the 1984s, a bunch of artists openly protested against the war in Iraq. There are a lot of examples in countries with traditional democratic principles. Therefore, if you decide to become a punitive-repressive autocracy, then close the borders already, until those who remain have fled. KAZ is a small example of a lag, which, by the way, after the Ukrainian shame of your army, seems to me simply epic. Close the borders, lower the iron curtain so the people have little idea of ​​what's going on behind them, reclaim compulsory membership in patriotic organizations and move on to "XNUMX".
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 27 August 2022 20: 08
            -3
            Oh, I beg you.. According to your Russian Federation, it’s a holy day of democracy.


            A light is not a light, but there is an order of magnitude more democracy in Russia than in any country in the West.

            Only now you don’t have any democracy, what to do, the people love strong leaders, but they don’t give a damn about real democratic foundations.


            So democracy is the WILL OF THE PEOPLE, and not a circus with a change of candidates. If the people want a strong leader - Putin 4,5,6 times in a row - then there will be Putin, this is democracy, when politics is controlled by the people, and not by financial clans, even from another country.

            For you to understand that the term limit was invented in the United States in 1947 after the death / assassination of the US president who was in power for 4 consecutive terms, so that a people's president like Roosevelt would never appear again, but to make all subsequent temporary workers who perfectly understand that after two deadlines, if they oppose themselves to financial clans, they will receive a bunch of accusations from harassment to corruption.

            The United States in the 30-40s that did not have democracy ?! Or were the people there stupid because they wanted a strong leader who defended their interests?!

            You do not have any freedom of speech, the right to real protest, and soon there will be no right to your own opinion.


            We have everything. Russia is the birthplace of 3 revolutions and many popular riots, when our people don’t like something, they don’t ask the authorities for permission to protest. And rallies in Russia, like in any other country, must be coordinated.

            What happened to those Americans who protested at the White House after Trump's election fraud? 5 shot, many were imprisoned. This is how the real protest in the USA ended.

            And how they press the ADF in Germany openly call them fascists and block them as soon as they can. Why? Because they are different, they are not bought, they protect the interests of their people.

            In America, in the 60s, crowds went to anti-war demonstrations against the Vietnam campaign, in the XNUMXs, a bunch of artists openly protested against the war in Iraq.


            Did Vietnam or Iraq somehow threaten the United States? How? These countries and people there did not threaten the United States in any way, and the United States killed millions of citizens of these countries, in fact they committed genocide, they played videos on TV how the US Marines burn villages with flamethrowers, flood the country with chemicals from which disabled people are still born there. there is something to protest against, especially when conscription is mandatory and everyone can be sent to war.

            And Ukraine today is a direct threat to Russia.

            In Ukraine, in 2014, nationalists came to power, among them were those who fought with Russia since Chechnya since the 90s (like Sashko Bily) as terrorists and began to promote anti-Russian policy from the first days. A bunch of nationalist organizations such as the Right Sector, Azov and others received weapons and carte blanche for everything, in the country they began to kill all those who disagree with the new policy, from ordinary people to journalists. In Ukraine, the Peacemaker website is still operating, on which people's data are published so that some scumbag arranges reprisals against them, like with Oles Buzina and many others. At the same time, the perpetrators are not punished, even if they burn dozens of people at a time, as in Odessa. In Ukraine today there is a genocide of everything Russian.

            There is nothing surprising that the South-East does not want to live under such power and does not want to consider murderers and punishers like Bandera and the SS men from Galicia as heroes. And people in Crimea and Donbass have every right to live separately from all this, and Russia will protect them, because OUR PEOPLE are there!

            Therefore, if you decide to become a punitive-repressive autocracy, then close the borders already, until those who remain have fled. KAZ is a small example of a lag, which, by the way, after the Ukrainian shame of your army, seems to me simply epic.


            Keep your fantasies to yourself. Russia does not close its borders and does not fence itself off from anyone, and there are enough scientists in Russia.

            And what kind of shame are we talking about? The 100th group of Russia (10% of the peacetime army) crushes the millionth army of Ukraine stuffed with Western weapons.

            This is not shame, but valor.

            The shame is when the US fled from Vietnam, when they fled from Afghanistan, the shame is what the Western countries left behind in Libya, and in general all the wars of the USA and the countries of the West are one sheer shame. An attempt to maintain colonial influence over the African countries of South America and Indochina.

            Look at the trends - the West is losing influence more and more. And it's not for these hypocritical bastards to teach Russia humanity and democracy.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  13. Tarasios
    Tarasios 24 August 2022 16: 25
    +2
    Quote: Aaron Zawi
    Quote: Fitter65
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    The engine caught fire. Nobody is safe.

    As always myself. Moreover, the tank had already been decommissioned for 4 years, and was waiting for disposal. But the weather was hot, winds were blowing from the desert, sand was rubbing on the hull of the tank - a charge of static electricity was accumulating. Well, the static was discharged unsuccessfully, and nearby everyone can see that there is dry grass that could be blown into the engine compartment by the wind, so it caught fire from a discharge of static electricity. Why even smoke? It was the paint that started to burn in the empty engine compartment, and then the fire extinguishing system worked, the tank was washed and, like a new one, was sent for recycling.

    This makes no sense.

    Not nonsense, but the "lens effect", a common occurrence;)
  14. mojohed2012
    mojohed2012 25 August 2022 07: 38
    -1
    Wait! From Ukraine, I think soon both the Palestinians and the Lebanese will receive a lot of all sorts of AT-4s, Javelins and other stingers.
    Then they will check their vaunted KAZ.
  15. Expert2017
    Expert2017 25 August 2022 12: 28
    -6
    A stupid system against the Javelin, Spike, Lancet, Switchblade 600. It will also not help against a shot from 100 meters from an RPG-30 or Panzerfaust. Also, it will not help in the city when shooting at the roof of a car from a high-rise. Also will not help against OFS and BOPS. In fact, it works against ATGMs of the 2nd generation. Moreover, the range of interception is small. And the fragments have a high chance of damaging the optics of the car and the Trophy itself. Here IronFist is another matter. This system should theoretically cope with both roofers and BOPS / OFS.
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 25 August 2022 12: 41
      +1
      It will also not help against a shot from 100 meters from an RPG-30 or Panzerfaust.


      I would very much like to see how you approach the tank at 100 meters, when from 2 km it will disassemble your opornik into atoms, under the cover of the second tank.

      KAZ will not help everywhere, but in most cases it saves from an ATGM or RPG attack, + reasonable tactics and cover from another tank or infantry and a formidable breakthrough weapon is obtained.

      There is no problem to put an additional AFAR on the tank to control the upper hemisphere and mortars to launch counter-munitions.

      Look at how many tanks were attacked by different Stugnas and Bassoons, they would have a multiple chance of survival if they had KAZ tanks.
      1. Expert2017
        Expert2017 26 August 2022 03: 58
        -1
        This is very easy to do in urban areas. Example, Mariupol.
      2. Expert2017
        Expert2017 29 August 2022 04: 40
        -3
        Really? No problems?))) At the moment, KAZ Trophy is a toy against the Papuans.

        1) The cost is 2-3 million dollars. This is the cost of the Armata tank.
        2) A small charge of the KAZ Trophy, which absolutely does not guarantee against fragments and a jet of copper, which with a high probability can lead to damage to the APAR, optics or launchers of the KAZ.
        3) Detection of AFAR radiation by means of radio intelligence.
        4) The futility of KAZ Trophy against artillery and mines.
        5) The uselessness of KAZ Trophy against BOPS and OFS in tank duels.
        6) The uselessness of KAZ Trophy against high-speed aircraft weapons.
        7) The uselessness of KAZ Trophy against an attack in the upper hemisphere.
        8) The uselessness of KAZ Trophy in urban conditions.
        If we put KAZ on equipment, then it’s exactly the one that would protect the car from threats from above, OFS, BOPS and high-speed weapons. Since in Ukrainian realities, Abrams would have been burned by Javelin, he would have run into a mine, they would have worked artillery on him or thrown a 60mm mine on the roof. And no KAZ Trophy would have saved from these threats.
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 29 August 2022 15: 06
          +2
          KAZ Windbreaker, as it is more accurate to call it, has been shooting down all the missiles with which our tanks were attacked since 2011, there are videos on the network.
          Its cost is from $ 100000 to $ 200000 per set, depending on the carrier. And the Armata tank does not cost $ 2-3 million, but much more expensive, the T-90S tank for export costs $ 3 million or more.
          KAZ Windbreaker was created to deal with RPGs and ATGMs, and not with kinetics and asteroids, but KAZ Porcupine Quill is already shooting down BOPS and there is a video, and what kind of Russian KAZ can do this and most importantly, is there evidence and video for this?
    2. K9_SWAT
      K9_SWAT 27 August 2022 16: 26
      0
      Actually, KAZ Drozd worked from 20 meters of the minimum distance! In addition, when it was developed, one level of attack was assumed. I think it's not a problem to expand the range and increase the angles up to the vertical impact.
  16. Crisp
    Crisp 25 August 2022 17: 49
    -1
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    Why clumsy?

    I consider the Merkava tank one of the best. For Europe, it certainly does not fit. Here it is important not only individual qualities, but also quantity, but also its price. Two or three hundred of these fine machines are indispensable. The theater of operations in Europe is the future battle of colossi with the most powerful weapons, where they simply get lost like a box of matches.
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 18: 12
      +1
      For Europe, it certainly does not fit

      And it is possible in more detail why it is not suitable, otherwise the old cliché is fed up.
  17. Crisp
    Crisp 25 August 2022 19: 53
    -2
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    For Europe, it certainly does not fit

    And it is possible in more detail why it is not suitable, otherwise the old cliché is fed up.

    Yes, you can think of everything. Take the information and look at it from all angles.
    At least the mass. 70 tons is not for all European bridges. This is not for European wagons. How many of them were made in total, and who acts as cooperators there? Where are the engines from? Where is the metal from? All electronics on his own? War - and all ties for cooperation are broken. There is no crap-sight and no tank. They bombed a factory in England - and there is nothing at all. For a country like Russia (and, after all, it is she who is the target for these pieces of iron, well, not Bulgaria, but will they go to pacify for stubbornness in making decisions in NATO?) - these quantities will not be enough. Moreover, no amount is enough, because we, like that brave tailor from Andersen's fairy tales, will jam them with hundreds of thousands of one atomic club.
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 21: 22
      +1
      At least the mass. 70 tons is not for all European bridges. This is not for European wagons.

      Challenger-2, Leopard-2, Abrams and Leclerc weigh 60 tons or more, and there are no problems with transport logistics, including railway, you can look at the photo on the Internet, you did not convince me.
      How many of them were made in total, and who acts as cooperators there? Where are the engines from? Where is the metal from? All electronics on his own? War - and all ties for cooperation are broken. There is no crap-sight and no tank. They bombed a factory in England - and there is nothing at all

      Everything is the same for Russia, again there are no good arguments why Merkava is not suitable for Europe.
      jam them with hundreds of thousands of one atomic club.

      This is a turn, they started for health and immediately for peace, and Russian tanks and not only tanks will also be mowed down if everyone crosses the line, and it doesn’t matter who started first, the main thing is who will survive.
    2. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 21: 37
      -1
      70 tons is not for all European bridges

      And that Russian tanks are super light, 50 tons is also not a little, besides, it is officially stated that the mass of the Armata tank is already 55 tons, I am very sure that it is more.
  18. Crisp
    Crisp 25 August 2022 21: 37
    -1
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    At least the mass. 70 tons is not for all European bridges. This is not for European wagons.

    Challenger-2, Leopard-2, Abrams and Leclerc weigh 60 tons or more, and there are no problems with transport logistics, including railway, you can look at the photo on the Internet, you did not convince me.
    How many of them were made in total, and who acts as cooperators there? Where are the engines from? Where is the metal from? All electronics on his own? War - and all ties for cooperation are broken. There is no crap-sight and no tank. They bombed a factory in England - and there is nothing at all

    Everything is the same for Russia, again there are no good arguments why Merkava is not suitable for Europe.
    jam them with hundreds of thousands of one atomic club.

    This is a turn, they started for health and immediately for peace, and Russian tanks and not only tanks will also be mowed down if everyone crosses the line, and it doesn’t matter who started first, the main thing is who will survive.

    You do not understand. Merkava is good when countered by T-34s. And in equal amounts, with crews performing prayers 5 times a day. 60 tons and 70. A little more. Wagons in Europe are 60 tons. Dimensions of European bridges and tunnels, and the expanse of the El-Libia desert. You do not understand what the difference is, but there.
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 22: 22
      0
      Loading equipment (Leopard-2 tanks) of the 34th armored cavalry brigade of the 11th armored cavalry division of the Polish army into the railway echelon; Zhagan; August 2016



    2. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 22: 37
      0
      And these are the Americans.


    3. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 22: 42
      0
      And these are the French, and all of them, Americans and Germans in Poland at the exercises, and the Polish railway is a direct analogue of the Russian one.


  19. Crisp
    Crisp 25 August 2022 22: 21
    -2
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    70 tons is not for all European bridges

    And that Russian tanks are super light, 50 tons is also not a little, besides, it is officially stated that the mass of the Armata tank is already 55 tons, I am very sure that it is more.

    Your confidence is worth nothing. How is Vysotsky? But clairvoyants, however, as well as eyewitnesses, have been burned at the stake in all ages .... Russian tanks are developed taking into account all logistics, on the territory of Russia, at least.
  20. Crisp
    Crisp 25 August 2022 22: 26
    -1
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    Leopard-2

    What version of the tank do the Poles have?

    Combat weight, t 50 - 2K
    55,15 - 2A4
    62-2A5
    Put what you want. I am a constructor. Professional, and I need a number, not toilet pictures.
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 22: 46
      -1
      I am a constructor. Professional

      Strong argument, but what?
    2. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 22: 54
      -1
      We look at the photo and see two tanks on a six-axle platform, in the picture there is an Abrams M1A1 tank weighing 62 tons each, and that one on the platform is 124 tons, what is the axle load? And do not forget to add the weight of the platform itself, about 35-40 tons.
  21. Crisp
    Crisp 25 August 2022 22: 56
    -2
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    I am a constructor. Professional

    Strong argument, but what?

    Isn't it clear? Then you suck. Numbers. A number can only be killed by another number. Feelings leave in the toilet.
  22. Crisp
    Crisp 25 August 2022 23: 01
    -2
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    We look at the photo and see two tanks on a six-axle platform, in the picture there is an Abrams M1A1 tank weighing 62 tons each, and that one on the platform is 124 tons, what is the axle load? And do not forget to add the weight of the platform itself, about 35-40 tons.

    Where is it? Highway? Factory yard? Track! Rail profile? Rocket trains in the USSR were also 120 tons per car. Rocket wagons. But the couplings were such that they unloaded one car, transferring the mass to the neighboring ones. Peacetime is one thing. Military - the same or different? It seems that your brain does not understand much, hence, there is no sense in an empty conversation.
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 25 August 2022 23: 10
      0
      Rocket trains in the USSR were also 120 tons per car.

      Actually more than 200 tons.
      But the couplings were such that they unloaded one car, transferring the mass to the neighboring ones.

      They unloaded only at the launch of the Scalpel ICBM, with the help of special paws-supports and a hitch, and only in the parking lot.
      It seems that your brain does not understand much, hence, there is no sense in an empty conversation.

      I asked a simple question but never received an answer.
      You do not Constructor, You are nonsense and empty talk, adyu to you with a brush.
  23. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 27 August 2022 22: 50
    -2
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    Thank you for the article. I didn't expect to learn so many new things.

    Support.
    Interesting article.
    The right way to fight.
    The Lebanese spoiled a lot of blood to the Israeli invaders (whom no one called there).
    And what do they say in Israel about the "brilliant" operation to return 43 Israeli terrorist fighters from captivity in the Donbass.
    I wonder what we got in return. For what it was possible to extradite from our captivity, notorious scoundrels. They say the Israelis trained the Bandera tactics of human shields from Russian women and children, taught the tactics of urban combat, and themselves took part in the genocide organized by the pig farm in the Donbass.