It is proposed to continue the series of patrol ships of project 22160 by replacing weapons

A series of project 22160 patrol ships will continue with the replacement of weapons. This was stated by Renat Mistakhov, General Director of the Ak Bars Shipbuilding Corporation, which produces these ships.

According to him, project 22160 patrol ships are proposed to be armed with Club missile systems and Resurs anti-aircraft systems, which have a modular design. Currently, just such a variant of the armament of ships is being worked out, the next series will already go with new weapons. However, Mistakhov did not name any dates, reports RIA News.

The ship can be equipped with both Club missiles and the Resurs anti-aircraft complex. Therefore, we see the continuation of this project precisely in the fact that these missile systems will be installed on it (...)

- he said, adding that these ships are a very good platform with good seaworthiness, draft, cruising range and speed.

In mid-June of this year, information appeared that the series of project 22160 patrol ships would not be continued, since the military was allegedly not satisfied with the characteristics of these corvettes. Among the shortcomings were called: insufficient seaworthiness, easy booking, vulnerability of power plants, as well as weak anti-aircraft weapons.

Recall that at present the series is limited to six ships, all of them are intended for the Black Sea fleet. Four ships are already in service, two will be commissioned this and next year. After the start of the SVO in Ukraine, the Tor-M2KM air defense systems were installed on these ships in order to somehow compensate for the lack of air defense.

The patrol ship (corvette) of project 22160 has a displacement of 1700 tons and is capable of speeds up to 30 knots. Cruising range - 6000 miles, autonomy - 60 days. The crew is 28 people, but can be increased to 80. The basing of the Ka-27PS helicopter is provided on board. Corvettes are equipped with a 76-mm artillery mount and machine guns as standard weapons.

Comments

[pyagomail.com]

"The generals are preparing for the last war," it was once said. : Naturally, they give technical specifications for new types of weapons based on past experience. Real fights make adjustments, so you shouldn't moan about: "Why didn't you do it earlier?" Believe me, the generals of all the armies of the world suffer from this.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

It's not the generals who are preparing for the last war. This article is about corruption and sycophancy.
Who could change in the end what those who fought on these ships said - only corrupt officials in the military-industrial complex.
They will install a missile system and remove the gun. And then the same military that have already said their word, in the line of sight, will repel attacks from small arms and trench tools, too, when the cartridges run out. And the holes in the sides will be plugged with window putty. Laughter - and only ... especially if you remember what the purpose of the corvette is, and what are the tactics of warfare and the weapons of those against whom it is directed.
Laughter, laugh, laugh! ...
Good seaworthiness. There were entire articles about how "good" she was. The principle of modularity is especially good, which did not really leave room for any serious weapons. These LEGO corvettes have not yet fallen apart and drowned, just because no one has yet attacked them even from high-caliber automatic weapons, not to mention something more serious ...
Corruption in wartime ... in my opinion - this is a shooting on the spot.

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

What tool? And what is your understanding of direct visibility and visibility of what goals? How can this fart help if the corvette is in direct line of sight of a serious enemy? And how will it help stop a speedboat? It will not even reach the shore - if something needs to be cleaned there. This is such an absurd tool - it really takes up a useful place - where there really isn’t so much of it. Yes, and more serious guns, having such long and high-speed things as Zircon, excessive ballast. A swarm of long and high-speed missiles and aircraft make these weapons useless. No, of course, you can "just in case", if not for one BUT. These things eat away more than half of the usable area and load.

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

For those who think with emotions, let them at least clarify the following question for themselves: during the entire campaign, our ships fired at least one real shot from a cable gun at the enemy?

[Corrosion inhibitor]

You are an amateur. Besides, you are an extra. I'm sorry, but this is...
If in doubt, then ask yourself why the German army is already undergoing a radical reform of the organization of battalion tactical groups and mechanized units. ... ? And at the head of everything is the radical transformation of battalion artillery? There was an article about this on VO.
Plus one more time REMEMBER THE DIRECT PURPOSE OF CORVETTE 22160 ...
Then you will understand more what is more important for them: a dozen missiles with dubious effectiveness as intended or a rapid-fire high-precision naval gun with a full load of ammunition.
With missiles, this corvette becomes equal in efficiency to RTOs. And that, other things being equal.
For the same cost, it is more profitable to transport customers in a regular taxi, rather than in a limousine. And, I repeat, BAD LIMOUSINE.
In general, the military has already said everything. And so did I, I said it all.

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

God save the queen (conv.) from idiots! Before shouting urry, simulate a modern naval battle in the Black Sea in various ways. And it is better to refer to the factual material on this CBO.
And frankly, I don’t care deeply about the Germans .., because traffic jams are stupid. How many times they were used by the Anglo-Saxons as a pig for slaughter against Russia. Yes, all to no avail.
Yes, and the German concepts a la "superweapon" that migrated to the USA are bad, because you cannot embrace the immensity ...

[Roman G]

Absolutely correct. To continue them is generally a crime

[U_GOREC]

since the military was allegedly not satisfied with the characteristics of these corvettes.

Who cares about the opinion of the military? Grandmothers are the main thing. Under capitalism, they will build such a fleet, the construction of which brings the greatest income to the owners of the means of production! And the interests of the military are the tenth thing!

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

only corrupt officials in the military-industrial complex.

And we are not exceptional here. It's the same in the USA. Only there Zamvolt was turned on the third ship, and we decided to cut further!

[zloybond]

I remember the indignation of a year ago, talking about a platoon of brave sailors armed with a cannon dissecting the seas - and it was not a figure of speech, but real indignations, and in response a lot of arguments with puffed cheeks from "strategists" - well, what can I say? boo-ha-ha

[ramzay21]

"The generals are preparing for the last war," it was once said. : Naturally, they give technical specifications for new types of weapons based on past experience.

It's not the generals here embezzlers and pests built this misunderstanding. What kind of war do you need to prepare for in order to build a ship with the speed of a bulk carrier and armed with one gun? He will not even be able to drive sailing frigates.

[storm]

A series of project 22160 patrol ships will continue with the replacement of weapons. This was stated by the General Director of the Ak Bars shipbuilding corporation.

Tatarstan is very actively trying to "milk" the Russian budget:
- in order to extend the series of useless "underships" pr.22160, - in mythical promises to produce 10-12 Tu-214 aircraft
maybe they understand that soon the money will run out .....

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: pyagomail.ru

"Why didn't they do it before?"

When the 76mm ZiS-3 cannon was shown to Stalin, he examined it and asked the Chief Designer one question: "Why didn't they do this right away?"

[Boris Ibragimov]

Well, you know, equip a ship with a displacement of almost 2000 tons, only MANPADS as air defense. This is certainly not a task for average minds))
And by and large, all these statements, by the type we have a million-strong army, but the budget is only 50 billion dollars. and we have enough. Now we can clearly see what equipment our army is fighting on.

[Glagol1]

It is better to scale 22800 Karakurt. 2 times smaller, 3 times cheaper and better armed. Again, someone lobbied for the continuation of a dead-end project ...

[donavi49]

And rowing. The engine problem has not yet been even close to being solved, while for mortgaged, idle engines there are delays, another CVD for this engine will only exacerbate the problem.

22160 has a mid-ranger, though. And it's faster there.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: donavi49

22160 has a mid-ranger, though. And it's faster there.

I wang that with the new composition of weapons, the 22160M will crawl out in terms of displacement and price into a niche of 20380. And why do we need the fourth corvette project under construction?

[donavi49]

20380 are building 2 CVDs. Zelenodolsk cannot build it. Well, or rather, it can build, but the corvette will operate in Zelenodolsk. Renat Mistakhov lobbies his plant, this is logical. If anything, then the contract grid is falling apart, the buoys are running out, and the plant cannot be fed by Grachatami.

[Alex777]

This is not a reason to carry this blizzard:

“On the ship, you can install both Club missiles and the Resurs anti-aircraft system on board. Therefore, we see the continuation of this project precisely in the fact that these missile systems will be installed on it, ”RIA Novosti reports Mistakhov’s words.
According to him, it is precisely such a subsequent series of ships that is being worked out, “because it is a very good platform, very good seaworthiness, good draft, range, good cruising speed of 26 knots, economic stroke 12 knots.

[Romario_Argo]

pr.22160 in its current form is a purely coast guard ship - only for the Navy
who said that the Navy cannot take over the functions of the coast guard (???)
pr.22160 is not for military operations, it has no anti-ship missiles, no PLUR, no SLCMs,
no anti-torpedoes Packet-NK, no air defense systems or any - only MANPADS
+ there is an assault armored boat for the landing group of border guards - preferably in calm (!!!)
there are coast guard ships of the border troops of the FSB
now apparently the series is being rolled up for the Kuril Islands at the Pacific Fleet
- FSB officers to help - apparently they can’t cope

[Barberry25]

in order for 22160 to do something, he needs to supply modular weapons that were never purchased .. Without him, he has very weak performance.

[Romario_Argo]

I wrote - that in the current configuration, pr. 22160 is clean naval coast guard ship
who said that the navy cannot perform the functions of the coast guard (?)

[bk0010]

Quote: Romario_Argo

22160 is a clean Coast Guard ship for the Navy

The Navy does not have a Coast Guard mission. There are tasks of coastal defense and protection of the water area. "It's different." For them, 22160 is not suitable.

[Romario_Argo]

The Navy has no Coast Guard mission

How do you know this (???)
That is, if there is an order from the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy on the coast guard - what is this (???)
Learn the military regulations (!!!)

[bk0010]

Quote: Romario_Argo

That is, if there is an order from the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy on the coast guard - what is this (???)

There will be a new Commander-in-Chief of the Navy. The secret services do not like it when they interfere in their diocese.

[Barberry25]

the joke is that he won’t be able to go into security if we say no helicopter, say

[donavi49]

Modular, are these caliber containers? Or diving equipment, container BUGAS, etc.? SAM he has one option - Thor on the helipad. There is no bow slot, the place is optimized for the premises.

[Alex777]

Quote: Romario_Argo

pr.22160 in its current form is a purely coast guard ship - only for the Navy

It's just money thrown to the wind.
Our diesel engines do not provide a design course of 30 knots.
He does not have weapons because with weapons
will cost as 20380, but will be worse in everything due to
difference in VI.
No seaworthiness. The nose is flooded with a wave of 2 points.

https://topwar.ru/174150-moduli-patrulniki-ne-spasut.html

[Cympak]

pr.22160 in its current form is a purely coast guard ship

People in the thread say that 22160 was created as part of a competition for a coast guard ship of the 1st rank. But the border guards chose another project - 22100 "Ocean". As a result, there was a magical coup in the air and 22160 was shoved into the Navy under the sauce of modularity and the fight against pirates in the DMZ. In practice, no modules, no long trips ....

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Romario_Argo

pr.22160 in its current form is a purely coast guard ship - only for the Navy
who said that the Navy cannot take over the functions of the coast guard (???)

What for? Has the Navy already solved all its tasks, which no one else can solve except for it?
With the same success, you can arm the guards and the RAP of the Strategic Missile Forces with Avalanches and send them to maintain order in crowded places.

[Silhouette]

Quote: Romario_Argo

pr.22160 in its current form is a purely coast guard ship - only for the Navy

The border guards abandoned this project. Basically they don't need it.

[Alemax]

who said that the Navy cannot take over the functions of the coast guard (???)

You are confusing your finger and...
There is the Protection of the Water District. This is the domain of the Navy. She is engaged in the protection of naval Objects from the sea. And here, at least hang on this Dove of Peace, he will never cope.
And then there's the Coast Guard. She's a border guard. The estate of the FSB.
Here, project 22160 is also not particularly appropriate, due to the very small full stroke that it can develop. Various tasks. Different tactics and strategy.
It is impossible for both of them to suck in the same rotten sprat.
Trying to create a modular universal order that satisfies the needs of both the Navy and the Faces, the idea was certainly a good one. But everything turned out as always.
And 22160 is not a corvette. This is a patrol ship with very limited seaworthiness and weapons capabilities.

In principle, if decommissioned SCADAs are screwed onto the helipad, you get a strategic missile cruiser.
And if you screw on the Pion self-propelled guns, it will be practically a battleship.
... Well, you understand))

[Alexey RA]

Quote from Alex

There is the Protection of the Water District. This is the domain of the Navy. She is engaged in the protection of naval Objects from the sea. And here, at least hang on this Dove of Peace, he will never cope.

Well, there is one option: to put on 22160 the container Minotaur, finally tortured by the industry, the Ka-27 with only the RGAB - and let the patrolman crawl along the BMZ, illuminating the underwater situation.

[Barberry25]

but it’s okay if you “scale” it will be bigger and more expensive?))) The shipyard will by itself lobby for the project that it can build and that has been worked out, the key issue for the Admiralty, which cannot step over itself and be born a budget ship, let me remind you that it was on the topvar that at one time the Burevestnik was poured with mud for alleged inferiority

[Tim]

They already don’t know how and where to push the “miracle” of project 22160 and shove it into the state!

[Ru_Na]

Reality proved that modularity is good only on paper, but apparently not everyone got it, since they again want to push these doves of peace with another modular weapon.

[Flooding]

--- SAM "Resource" ---

[ism_ek]

It is not clear why such a powerful and expensive air defense system should be installed on a small ship. Experience shows that the main thing is not the power of missiles, but their total number. Do not forget that "Resource" will require the "Polymet" radar ..... (as you remember ... you shudder so much)
A calm or marine version of the shell must be installed with a large supply of missiles.

[Flooding]

Quote: ism_ek

Do not forget that "Resource" will require the "Polymet" radar

Why do you think so?

[TermNachTer]

Why do you consider "Resurs" a powerful air defense system? The range is 28 km., When the "Pantsir" is already firing at 40 km. + a small-sized (inexpensive) missile was developed to work on UAVs. I believe that if you have already decided to bring Project 22160 "to mind", then you need "Calm", even with a "circumcised" b / c.

[ism_ek]

The resource is a naval expert version of the S-350. Calm is the marine version of Buk.
The range of the Pantsir missile of 40 km is doubtful. She accelerates in the initial section and then flies by inertia. 40 km fly by inertia? Of course it is possible. But a maneuverable target cannot be shot down at such a distance.

[TermNachTer]

And what maneuverable target will fly into the Russian ship? "Harpoon" or "exoset"?

[Cympak]

"Resource" is another name for "Redoubt". The main charm of the "Redoubt" / "Resurs" is the ARGSN missiles, the initial target control for which can be developed by a surveillance radar with sufficient accuracy and viewing speed. But with this there were problems on the 20380 corvettes, which led to the installation of an extremely expensive and crude Barrier radar on them

[rocket757]

According to him, project 22160 patrol ships are proposed to be armed with Club missile systems and Resurs anti-aircraft systems, which have a modular design. Currently being worked out

again plans are being worked out ....

[Voronezh]

The arctic fox is full .... Yes, somewhere there is very strong support for this misunderstanding called the corvette ....

[antivirus]

These are Kazan - see Moscow and the government.
Footcloths against a tuxedo.
The loss is understandable and natural.
Profits are not toys

[Amateur]

Among the shortcomings were called: insufficient seaworthiness, easy booking, vulnerability of power plants, as well as weak anti-aircraft weapons.

[ultra]

It is necessary to involve the investigating authorities and identify all those involved in pushing this project into a series.

[Barberry25]

and can cost to give birth to a normal project?

[Alexey RA]

Bury the stewardess already. ©

The ship can be equipped with both Club missiles and the Resurs anti-aircraft complex. Therefore, we see the continuation of this project precisely in the fact that these missile systems will be installed on it (...)

- he said, adding that these ships are a very good platform with good seaworthiness, draft, cruising range and speed.

Of course, I understand that "Ak Bars" really want to eat, but so why lose the coast? Or did the general director decide that everyone had already forgotten about the unsuccessful interception of the lime ship and about the claims of the Navy to the patrolmen?

Among the shortcomings were called: insufficient seaworthiness, easy booking, vulnerability of power plants, as well as weak anti-aircraft weapons.

And most importantly - why do we need 22160M with SLCMs and air defense systems, if we already have 22800 and the 20380 line? And why build a third project strike missile ship, if the Navy is suffocating from the absence anti-submarine OVR ships?

[Sergey3]

What for? The capacities of the Zelenodolsk plant are not loaded, the speed of construction of 22800 depends on the timely delivery of diesel engines, and after them there is a queue for several years ahead. Ships 20380 along the Volga will not be able to drag. And in Zelenodolsk they know how to make ships quickly and a lot.

[PROXOR]

So let their mother build sections and send them south on barges. 22160 is a stillborn project.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Sergey3

What for? The capacities of the Zelenodolsk plant are not loaded, the speed of construction of 22800 depends on the timely delivery of diesel engines, and after them there is a queue for several years ahead.

The question is different - why do we need so many RTOs at all? They were built to circumvent the restrictions of the INF Treaty. But now they are gone.

Quote: Sergey3

Ships 20380 along the Volga will not be able to drag.

Will they be able to drag the 22160M with all the bells and whistles? Air defense systems and SLCMs are mass and volume, and modernized patrolmen can grow exactly up to 20380. Especially when the Navy remembers the absence of a PLO helicopter and a PLO helicopter at 22160 GAS.

Quote: Sergey3

And in Zelenodolsk they know how to make ships quickly and a lot.

So let them do the IPC. And not satisfied naval officer Babchenko, again reviving the patrol ship, and even in the shock version.

[Sergey3]

They have already made 10 pieces, including abroad. The problem here is the complete absence of a planned economy in the country, and the Defense Ministry is faced with the problem of choice: either the loss of a good supplier independent of the USC or the purchase right now of ships that are not very suitable for all wishes. If the plant is deprived of orders, high-class specialists will quit, and by the time a new project matures, there will simply be no one to assemble it physically. And even if you order the development of a new project right now, it will take 4-5 years. and the worker wants to eat right now, and not in 5 years! By the way, they are dragged without a superstructure, it is mounted on a delivery base.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Sergey3

They have already made 10 pieces, including abroad.

Are you talking about 22160? And who bought them from foreign customers?

Quote: Sergey3

If the plant is deprived of orders, high-class specialists will quit, and by the time a new project matures, there will simply be no one to assemble it physically. And even if you order the development of a new project right now, it will take 4-5 years. and the worker wants to eat right now, and not in 5 years!

Since when is it the job of the Department of Defense to finance the oligarchs? "Ak Bars" is a private office. If the plant wants the state to support it, let it be transferred to state ownership.
As for orders - what, the plant could not think of this before? What prevented Zelenodolsk, which perfectly understands that sooner or later the scam with 22160 will be covered up, during their construction, localize its own diesel Gepard in the MPK version and offer it to the Navy?

Quote: Sergey3

By the way, they are dragged without a superstructure, it is mounted on a delivery base.

That is, even in the current empty version, some of the structures must be dismantled to transfer the ship. And what will happen when a UVP and a full-fledged CIC are installed in the hull, and a crowd of radar stations are placed on the superstructure? Yes, and with all the cable routes? Will the plant make a bare building, which will then be completed elsewhere?

[Romeo]

You feel like you are suffocating. It's just that no one really cares, except for local experts. In general, until the second Kuznetsov or Gorshkov appears at the helm of the Navy, everything will be in complete calm

[Petr_Koldunov]

Quote: Romeo

In general, until the second Kuznetsov or Gorshkov appears at the helm of the Navy ...

Or the second Golovko. How he managed to organize the defense of the entire Arctic from Pechenga to Matochkin Shar and ensure the logistics of caravans through the Soviet area of ​​​​responsibility ... just a talent! There would be more of these in the fleet now!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Peter_Koldunov

Or the second Golovko. How he managed to organize the defense of the entire Arctic from Pechenga to Matochkin Shar and ensure the logistics of caravans through the Soviet area of ​​​​responsibility ... just a talent! There would be more of these in the fleet now!

In the memoirs - yes, everything was fine. But in the documents, everything is not so rosy: the White Sea Flotilla was regularly persuaded because it did not control the movement of civilian ships and could not even ensure the safety of convoys. The death of the BD-5 convoy is an example of this.

[Petr_Koldunov]

BD-5 is indeed a gloomy milestone in the history of the Northern Fleet, but in general, the defense of the Arctic is recognized as heroic and reliable not only in Golovko's memoirs, but also in Western analyzes of that war. Fischer, who worked closely with him, was very respectful. Harry Hopkins also highly valued the work of Soviet sailors. Anthony Eden, although he was in Moscow, his quotes about the significance of the Northern Fleet are also quite positive.
And defeats ... well, there are no generals without defeats. Even Eugene of Savoy endured them

[Barberry25]

the question is incorrectly formulated .. why has the Navy still not prepared a request for OVR anti-submarine ships if they really need them? strike weapons. If the Navy wants to get a lot of ships, then a bunch of copies have already been broken about it, you need to build an analogue of the Chinese corvette based on the power plant from 22160 with VPU and shells or tori in the role of air defense systems, but I don’t remember point-blank that the fleet is at least somehow stuttered about it

[Observer2014]

But after all, when they received it a couple of years ago, they shouted with joy and boasted that these were ships from sea pirates. An incredibly successful project with a modular placement of weapons. So far, these pirates have no Garapun. Almost under the specifics of the task, they can be completed before going to sea. Well, if the TOP on the helipad deck is a module to count. And to be honest, without a modern air defense system, a warship cannot be a full-fledged combat ship.

[neworange88]

Only as shown by the NWO to such ships, even Thor on board does not help. But it is clear for someone that this is not an argument. It would be better to build a replacement for the cruiser Moscow. A project 22350M ship would suit this role, otherwise they sculpt a hunchback with their useless and useless 22160, there is not enough evil for them.

[Barberry25]

Well, why do you need a cruiser in 15 years, when you don’t have enough ships of a smaller displacement in the amount of 40 units already now?

[NikolayDS]

Quote: Observer2014

So far, these pirates do not have "Garapun".

Where these ships are needed, the pirates will have both a harpoon and an exocet. So it's really risky.

[faiver]

do we not have enough caliber carriers? we don’t have enough PLO ships ....

[Alexey RA]

Quote: faiver

do we not have enough caliber carriers? we don’t have enough PLO ships ....

We have the means. We are not smart enough.

© one cat in a vest

[AAK]

The ship is lousy, the displacement is almost like 20380, and the armament is 4 times less, the hull is unsuccessful, the speed is not planned 30, but barely 25, the GAS is neither under-kiln and towed from the GPBA, nor missiles, nor torpedoes, nor a normally-based helicopter, they blinded the type of stealth freak, they sucked in the fleet, drank the loot, you can see little ...

[Tim]

"General Director of the Ak Bars Shipbuilding Corporation, which produces these ships, Renat Mistakhov."
- Quite an interesting person in the spring of 2020 was under investigation information from the media!

On March 4, the Khamovniki Court of Moscow refused to detain Renat Mistakhov, head of the large Ak Bars shipbuilding corporation, deputy of the State Council of the Republic of Tatarstan, into custody. the court considered that there was no evidence of Mistakhov's involvement in corruption in the case."

[Sergey3]

Don't you think that this is just a showdown between the all-powerful USC and an independent supplier that knocks down the price tag on their products? There is a struggle going on, oh oh oh, in order to crush a tasty asset for yourself with the involvement of whoever you need!

[Cympak]

Zelenodolsk residents had several projects of OVR corvettes in the classic version and Rusich with outriggers. That's what they need to do to close the hole in the near zone.

[Horus]

Harosh whining like everything is gone. This war is the forerunner of a big war, it’s good that we are learning and redoing something, thank God for having time.

[SIT]

All the same, I don’t understand the plans of our naval commanders. The option of cutting the budget is put out of brackets. All the same, besides the dough in the head, something should be. What the hell did these patrol police scows surrender to in the Black Sea? Whoever and what would not be planned in peacetime, as soon as any war began, the main task of the Black Sea Fleet, starting from the 1st World War, was the landing and fire support of the landed troops. That's what will now directly land MPs in Odessa, and most importantly, what will provide fire support for the landing and create an air defense umbrella over it? Well, let's say the Marines will be landed by Soviet BDKs, on which 80% of the personnel will be younger than these ships. And what will cover the landing? These corvettes, which, if not even drowned, then they have in 20 minutes. a good fight will end BC?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: SIT

What the hell did these patrol police scows surrender to in the Black Sea?

Because it was originally planned that 22160 would replace the first ranks on duty off the coast of Africa. So they put them closer to the potential theater of operations.
Well, when it turned out that as an anti-piracy ship 22160 also did not work, then it was left at the Black Sea Fleet simply because other fleets do not need it either.

[Commodore Arctic]

Who needs this "stump"?

To maintain a database at sea - 0, to provide air defense -0, to maintain an amphibious assault - 0, to maintain a submarine - 0 ..
But at the parade it will look sipotish, like a long-legged blonde

Even a helicopter only in the search and rescue version is a mockery

A maximum of 3-4 of these for each fleet, use as OVR ships or as PSKR

[NikolayDS]

Let's assume that the ship will not have serious databases at sea, there will be no serious attacks along the air line, there will be no landings, no submarines are needed. And yes, there will sometimes be parades for advertising. And they will be able to make a decent missile defense. And it will not be used in the Black Sea, as stated, or not in the Pacific theater of operations, as some suggest. And now we need at least 12 ships. Is that a normal option then?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: NikolayDS

Let's assume that the ship will not have serious databases at sea, there will be no serious attacks along the air line, there will be no landings, no submarines are needed. And yes, there will sometimes be parades for advertising. And they will be able to make a decent missile defense.

And who needs him?
The most important task of the fleet now is to restore the OVR. First of all - in Gadzhiyevo and Vilyuchinsk. Otherwise, you can immediately cross out 40% of our strategic SBCs deployed on SLBMs.
And the OVR is primarily "underwater" tasks, that is, anti-aircraft defense and mine defense. Surface and air threats in the near zone can still be detected and hit by coastal ground and air forces.

[Commodore Arctic]

I will support you! Why do we need such a toy and even 1200 tons of displacement?!!! Won under the USSR MRK 1235, MPK 1124 - up to 800 tons, so at least some use was from them !!!

[Alexey RA]

Quote from Commodore Arctic

I will support you! Why do we need such a toy and even 1200 tons of displacement?!!! Won under the USSR MRK 1235, MPK 1124 - up to 800 tons, so at least some use was from them !!!

800 tons are not enough today - the OVR corvette should have at least a platform for a helicopter, where it could be refueled and replenished with weapons. Do not fly every time to the barbaza.
But even here, 22160 is not thankful to God: it has a hangar, but it does not have an ASP cellar and an ammunition lift. So, apart from the unarmed Ka-27PS, he cannot carry anything.

[NikolayDS]

Then let's keep dreaming...
Suppose that the most important task of the navy, in addition to defensive and offensive tasks, is to ensure economic security, incl. realization of economic interests of the country. Suppose, for this purpose, a specialized ship (and not a universal one) is needed, which will never deal with enemy submarines or aircraft, and will not land troops. It is clear that the tasks that were listed for the military are a priority. But this does not mean that these tasks are a priority for those responsible for making the current political decision. Suppose, purely hypothetically, that one of the economic interests of the country is to capture the maritime trade insurance market (an area that has so far been so successfully controlled in London). Suppose, purely hypothetically, that at the last meeting in Iran certain agreements were reached on this issue. Suppose even more purely hypothetically that a number of contracts have been concluded to provide reinsurance for ships in the Persian Gulf region. And then the Russian Navy will have to demonstrate its presence there with the help of at least 12 ships with good missile defense and acceptable combat power capable of a not too intense 15-minute battle. Yes, and with a rescue helicopter. Your suggestions?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: NikolayDS

Suppose that the most important task of the navy, in addition to defensive and offensive tasks, is to ensure economic security, incl. realization of economic interests of the country.

So no one is against it. But all these tasks should be solved only after the solution of the main task of the Navy - ensuring the safety of duty and the use of strategic combat units entrusted to the fleet.
And the priority of this task is absolute. Especially now. What's the point of choosing mittens when you're naked in the cold?

[NikolayDS]

Quote: Alexey RA

And the priority of this task is absolute. Especially now. What's the point of choosing mittens when you're naked in the cold?

I agree. But all this requires money. If it will be as he fantasized, then there will be money for it. Because then the Russian Federation in five years will control all oil supplies, except for the one that is produced in the United States.

[KrolikZanuda]

I just want money (c).

[Altmann]

The Russian Admiralty is cautious. In professional terms, they are comparable to the Americans and the British. I hope cooperation with men is better. The cruiser "Moskva" still haunts me, comrade marines.

[TreeSmall]

Quote: Renat Mistakhov

On the ship, you can install both "Club" missiles ☝️ and an anti-aircraft complex ☝️ "Resurs" on board

Missile "club" does not exist
SAM "resource" is still only an exhibition

+ "Resource" is not quite complex.
It does NOT have:
-radar
-PBU

At the same time, ☝️"any shipborne detection radar" with sufficient accuracy characteristics can give target designation to the "Resurs

Project 22160 is initially flawed (bypassing the INF Treaty, which has sunk into oblivion)
The characteristics of the Pozitiv-MK radar are far-fetched (just think about the mass and displacement and the overturning moment)
Yes, and these gestures prove the above

[Alexey RA]

Quote from TreeSmall

Project 22160 is initially flawed (bypassing the INF Treaty, which has sunk into oblivion)

Bypassing the INF Treaty is 21631 and 22800. 22160 cannot bypass the treaty - because there is nothing.
The only naval task that in theory could perform 22160 - this is unloading the TFR and BOD from carrying out anti-piracy duty unusual for them off the coast of Africa. But in practice, he failed this task too: 22160 was not carried beyond Tartus DB, and 2021 had to be sent to Africa even in 1155.

[TreeSmall]

Maybe.
I'm actually talking about 2 × 4 modular missile systems.
And so 1,5 to a ton boat with Max 25 knots. move ... it is not clear what is needed

[Yellow bubble]

How can you have a ship without air defense? After all, then it’s just a boat with a motor !!!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Yellow Bubble

How can you have a ship without air defense? After all, then it’s just a boat with a motor !!!

Can. It's called OPV - Offshore Patrol Vessel.
But behind the back of OPV there should be a full-fledged fleet, which in which case will come to the rescue.

[Panzerjäger]

Patrol ships 22160:
Designed for patrolling the protection of territorial waters, patrolling the 200-mile exclusive economic zone in open and closed seas, stopping smuggling and piracy, searching and assisting victims of maritime disasters, environmental monitoring of the environment in peacetime, guarding ships and ships at the crossing by sea, as well as naval bases and water areas in order to warn of an attack by various enemy forces and equipment - in wartime, as well as operations in the distant sea and ocean zones.
Armament:
- 2 × 4 modular missile systems Caliber-K with Kh-35 missiles or missiles of the Caliber family
- 1 × 1 76,2 mm gun AK-176MA
- 2 × 1 14,5 mm MTPU-1 "Sting"
- 1 × 8 air defense systems "Igla-S" or "Verba" (8 missiles)
- 1 helicopter Ka-27PS / Ka-29 / Ka-52K or 2 - 4 UAVs in the deck hangar
Now look:
a) carrying out patrol service for the protection of territorial waters, patrolling the 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas, suppressing smuggling and piracy, searching for and providing assistance to victims of maritime disasters, environmental monitoring of the environment in peacetime - for these purposes " Calibers" or X-35 anti-ship missiles are not fucking needed, the rest of the weapons are enough above the roof;
b) guarding ships and vessels at sea crossings, as well as naval bases and water areas in order to warn about the attack of various enemy forces and means - in wartime, as well as operations in the far sea and ocean zones - for these purposes, the ship is absolutely defenseless in terms of air defense and anti-aircraft defense. It is hardly even capable of repelling an air attack on itself, not to mention covering escorted ships or ships from air strikes or anti-ship missiles, as well as absolutely useless for covering ships or ships from attacks by enemy submarines. Sending these ships to the ocean zone is akin to suicide.
We got a ship of resizes for functions a) and a ship of shorts for functions b).
For comparison, the Soviet MPK project 1124, with half the displacement, carried the Osa-M / Osa-MA air defense systems, artillery, RBU and anti-submarine torpedo tubes.
Soviet RTOs of project 1234, with a displacement of 1000 tons less, carried 6 anti-ship missiles, Osa-M / Osa-MA air defense systems, 76-mm and 30-mm gun mounts.
At the same time, both the IPC and RTOs were distinguished by good habitability conditions and quite acceptable seaworthiness.
With project 22160, we see a clear example of lobbying, when the industry dragged through the decision to build overgrown ships with absolutely unusable weapons.
Sorry, but if air defense systems were installed on ships of 700-900 tons with a displacement, couldn’t they design the 22160th project for launchers of the same 3K95 Kinzhal air defense system? Do you not like the rotating drum launchers of this air defense system? Great, borrow the modular construction of launchers for 8 cells for missiles from the Tor-M2 air defense system. Or is the idea of ​​borrowing the principle of launchers from the Ground Forces on sailors like a red rag on a bull? A pair of modules similar to the modules of the Tor air defense system will not take up much space, but the ship will receive 16 missiles to repel air attacks. And if you wrinkle your mind, then there could be four modules, and this is already 32 missiles. True, you will have to wrinkle your mind on the placement of the radar, but that's what the designers are for.
Of course, the presence of a helicopter has become a fetish for sailors. But then ask yourself - do you need a warship or a helicopter landing pad? For the Marine Guard, this ship is certainly good, although a pair of torpedo tubes would not hurt the sea border guards in order to give a wit to some unbridled fishing trawler.
In general, they built ships, and now they are toiling, thinking where to stick them, and how to make sure that the crazy "Bayraktar" does not ruin them.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Panzerjager

Now look:
a) carrying out patrol service for the protection of territorial waters, patrolling the 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas, suppressing smuggling and piracy, searching for and providing assistance to victims of maritime disasters, environmental monitoring of the environment in peacetime - for these purposes " Calibers" or X-35 anti-ship missiles are not fucking needed, the rest of the weapons are enough above the roof

Still funnier: the protection of the terrorist water and the economic zone is not within the competence of the Navy - this is the task of the FSB BOHR. Why the hell these tasks were written down in the list for naval 22160 - only Chirkov knows.
Although there is one hypothesis: someone simply rewrote the list of tasks from the original TOR when 22160 planned to sell the FSB as PSKR.

Quote: Panzerjager

With project 22160, we see a clear example of lobbying, when the industry dragged through the decision to build overgrown ships with absolutely unusable weapons.

Don't blame everything on promotions. Patrolman 22160 was smuggled by Commander-in-Chief Chirkov himself, who for his sake killed work on the archival and archival corvette OVR.

Glavkomat does not see prospects in the creation of ships, previously designated as "Corvette IAD". One of the main tasks of the OVR is to ensure the protection and defense of the naval forces in the areas of naval bases and in the adjacent territories. This task is now carried out by onshore observation means, stationary hydroacoustic stations and coastal missile-artillery troops, armed with anti-ship missiles of different ranges, as well as anti-submarine and strike aircraft.

Rejecting the corvette, the Navy turned to the idea of ​​creating patrol ships - less armed, but with greater autonomy and versatility, capable, including, to go on long hikes. The design of the patrol ship will be handled by the North Design Bureau.

[ALMO]

We will get the first ever combat patrol ... container ship.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from ALMO

We will get the first ever combat patrol ... container ship.

From the south comes the resentful gurgling of the Atlantic Conveyor.

In general, the topic of container weapon systems was extremely popular in the 80s - the notorious Arapaho project.

[lelik613]

They messed up, but the underpants do not fundamentally change. Aristocrats!)))

[TerraSandera]

The main thing is to know the goals. For which the fleet is being built. That same glorious doctrine. In my opinion, there are a couple of options.
1) Ensure parity on any TVD with local maritime powers. (Currently not possible, too unfavorable location in relation to the seas and oceans). The already losing weight fleet is divided into several parts, from which there are thousands of miles, weeks for transfer and collection. Well, subject to the closure of some straits, this is essentially a breakthrough, with a declaration of war on the mistresses of the straits.
2) ensure the possibility of withdrawing SSBNs to the BR launch areas, covering these areas (expulsion / expulsion of the enemy in peacetime) + control of the coastline, partially under the umbrella of Bastions and Coastal Aviation.
The task is difficult, but doable.
Under this and build a fleet. Along the way, increasing competencies, and start building a good shipyard or modernizing an old one, for ships of the first rank. It doesn't matter, maybe there will be an opportunity to build an avik, maybe not. Now we need Frigates, Destroyers, preferably with good air defense + caliber carriers. To do this, the displacement must be at least 8000, of course, up to 10, but not small boats, in which you can put either a small cannon or air defense, which is not even able to protect itself.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: TerraSandera

Now we need Frigates, Destroyers, preferably with good air defense + caliber carriers.

To fulfill the task No. 2 you indicated, first of all, mass ships of the OVR are needed - MPK / corvettes PLO, TSHCHIM and, possibly, carriers of BUGAS (PLO and mine defense). What is the use of DMZ ships if we have nothing to control the approaches to the bases and ensure the exit of the SSBNs?
Small carriers of "Caliber" are not needed after the exit from the INF Treaty - their place will be taken by launchers of the KRNB.