Military Review

Karma: war again, mines in the Baltic Sea again

110

In this stories indeed there is something karmic. Indeed, as soon as hostilities began, mines rained into the waters of the Baltic Sea. And, from all sides.


There are no exact data on how many mines were laid in the First World War, but they set them fervently and with a twinkle. And everything was blown up on these mines, but mostly the Germans got it. They really lost many ships on the mines of the Baltic. The most famous loss was the death of 7 of the newest destroyers from 11 ships of the special forces detachment in the fall of 1916. Instead of pinching the sentinel forces of the Baltic fleet, the German destroyers went to the bottom. This was the most significant success of the Baltic Fleet in the First World War.

After the war, mines, of course, were trawled, but not very actively. Russia, which was becoming the USSR, had something to do without it, and where the Russian mines were placed, the opponents did not really know.

In the interval between the wars, the Soviet Union, Finland, Sweden, Germany slowly refurbished their minefields, and after the start of World War II, a mine nightmare began in general. The USSR, Germany and Finland jointly put about 67 mines in the Gulf of Finland. Plus separately aviation Almost one and a half thousand mines were exposed to Germany.

Karma: war again, mines in the Baltic Sea again

What happened in the end?

The Baltic Fleet was locked in a small area and practically did not take part in the war. Submarines of the Navy of the Red Army with great difficulty broke through the network and minefields and suffered losses. Of the 46 submarines that the Baltic Fleet lost during the Great Patriotic War, the lion's share falls precisely on minefields.

So we can definitely conclude that Germany and Finland won the mine war against the USSR "for a clear advantage."

The mine war in the Baltic lasted until 1957, and required considerable effort both technically and quantitatively.


It is not for nothing that the modest date of breaking the mine blockade is still celebrated in certain circles of the Red Banner Baltic Fleet - June 5th.


Why is this topic being brought up today?

Because it is raised. So far, only in theory, the main thing is that they do not throw them into the water. But without waiting for the admission of Finland and Sweden to the friendly ranks of NATO, in Estonia and the same Finland, they did not hesitate at all, they started talking out loud about how they could quickly and efficiently succeed in a mine blockade of the Russian Baltic Fleet and the subsequent complete blockade of Kaliningrad.

Conversations are on the verge of provocation, both military and diplomatic. The recent daring dances of Latvia around Kaliningrad and Norway around Spitsbergen show that they will not let us live in peace and will spoil the little things.

But to talk so impudently about blocking the Gulf of Finland... This is already a larger size.

But it might work out. It is not for nothing that hot Finnish and Estonian guys urgently began consultations at the level of their defense ministries on the creation of a common system of maritime defense of the two countries.

Estonian Defense Minister Hanno Pevkur came up with a masterpiece:

“The integration of the anti-missile defense of Finland and Estonia will make it possible to close the Gulf of Finland for Russian warships. The Baltic Sea with the accession of Finland and Sweden to NATO will become the inland sea of ​​the alliance. We need to unify coastal defense systems. The flight range of Estonian and Finnish missiles exceeds the width of the Gulf of Finland. Now we need to unite the systems, start sharing all the information we have with each other.”

The Estonian minister aired it all a week ago, after a meeting with his Finnish counterpart Antti Kaikkonen. Apparently, these men said a lot of pleasant things to each other.

But if you look at the map of this very Gulf of Finland, then not the most joyful thoughts come into your head. Indeed, Estonia and Finland may well deliver global troubles at sea. Even in the absence of fleets, although there is still how to say.

It is clear that the times of naval battles have gone down in history, everything is more or less clear here. Yes, Estonia does not have a fleet in the usual sense for us, two patrol boats and three minesweepers - that's all. But Estonians don't need ships!

It is enough to install anti-ship missile launchers on the shores - and here you have a problem with the passage! Moreover, no miracle missiles, ultra-long-range and very smart, are needed. With the total width of the bay in some places (as on the map), shooting will be carried out at close range, from a distance of 30-40 km. And now everything is flying.


But the Estonians have bought quite modern equipment for themselves! Israeli anti-ship missiles "Blue Spear" - very good weapon. The flight speed is under 1000 km / h, with a flight range of full order, under 300 kilometers. That is, the Estonians can launch these missiles not just at targets in the Gulf of Finland, but, excuse me, at the mooring walls of St. Petersburg and Krondstadt.


Of course, we have air defense, we also have missiles, we also have ships, but ...

So much has already been said about the composition and combat capabilities of the DCBF that I don’t want to repeat myself. And if we talk about the impending mine war, then things are even more sad. Not so long ago we did a review of our minesweeping forces, and you understand with your mind that a dozen minesweepers will not be able to do anything.

About the Finnish Navy. He is just imprisoned precisely for a mine war. Six minelayers, five of which are from the 90s, that is, still quite nothing. At one time, this gang can set up from 600 to 1000 mines. And the Finns have more minesweepers of their own construction than we do. And they are newer.

And the Finns sold a decent amount of their mines ... to Estonia! Ask where the Estonian guys will put them from? Difficult question, to be honest. British-built Estonian minesweepers of the Sandown type are, in general, not even minesweepers, but mine seekers. They do not have the possibility of trawling, there is no equipment on board. And if you look at the Sandown in the stern, there is not much space for placing mines there.


But the fact is: the mines are bought. Training sessions are underway. This means that there is a possibility of laying mines, we just don’t know yet how the brave Estonian miners decided to have fun. It is possible that their Finnish colleagues will try to use NH-90 helicopters for minelaying.

But it's really a threat. Here the situation is not simple: whoever is first wins. Whoever first threw mines into the waters of the Gulf of Finland will then sit on the shore smiling and examining the opponent's attempts in the sights of their coastal anti-ship systems.

By the way, the Finns have everything in order with anti-ship missiles, their MTO-85M fly at a distance of up to 150 km and also easily cover the entire width of the bay.

And here a situation arises when the seemingly defensive armament of a sea mine becomes very offensive if used together with anti-ship coastal systems. You can easily block Kaliningrad, block the Baltic Fleet in the harbors. And not to give the opportunity to clear mines, since the coastal SCRC is a mobile thing and not very noticeable.

And you can not even expect help from older brothers in NATO. The Germans, Danes and Poles will sit quietly in the harbors, the Finns and Estonians will, in theory, be able to cope on their own.

And, what is most unpleasant - the script is very cheap. They threw dirty tricks into the water, they themselves sit on the shore and calmly wait for the development of events. And you there, in Russia, get out as best you can.

Really have to get out. Blocked Kaliningrad will force. By land, stopping the delivery of everything you need is as easy as shelling pears. And if we also block the sea ... The situation will become completely sad, because it’s hard to believe in the possibility of our merchant fleet (if it still exists) after Syria.

And if neighbors also come to help colleagues ...


Germany: 6 submarines, 12 frigates, 5 corvettes, 19 minesweepers.
Poland: 2 submarines, 2 frigates, 2 corvettes.
Denmark: 9 frigates.
Norway: 6 submarines, 4 frigates, 6 corvettes.
Sweden: 5 submarines, 11 corvettes, 20 minesweepers.

In total, we get 19 submarines, 27 frigates, 24 corvettes and more than 50 minesweepers (with Finnish and Estonian).

Can the DCBF offer sane resistance if at least a quarter of these forces are involved? Definitely not. Neither in terms of the number of ships, nor in their quality, the Baltic Fleet is able to compete with the fleets of the NATO countries.

Moreover, everyone in the naval headquarters understands perfectly well: there is no need to try to destroy the Baltic Fleet, according to the experience of two world wars, it is enough to cut it off from the operational space by simple mining, and the job is done. The Baltic Fleet will again begin to play its usual target role, only now missiles will be added to the aircraft.

The waves of the Baltic are remembered from the beginning of the last century, how modest minelayers were covered by armadillos and battleships, cruisers and destroyers. Now the times are somewhat different, and in order for the minzags to once again turn the Gulf of Finland into a "soup with dumplings", missiles with a short range in our times, aviation and reconnaissance drones are enough.

So the problem is very topical, giving rise to the question: what to do?

To finally disband the Baltic Fleet, distributing the remnants of the ships among other fleets, leaving only ships of the coastal zone and patrol boats? Strive with all your might to maximize the composition of the DCBF? And together with the forces of the fleet, strengthen naval aviation, missile forces, and so on?

In general, there are no answers yet. Disbanding the DCBF “as unnecessary,” as some “experts” of the Russian deputies are suggesting today, is really dooming Kaliningrad. If there is a land blockade by Poland and Lithuania, then only under the cover of ships equipped with air defense, dry cargo ships and tankers can reach Kaliningrad without interference.

Amplify? Frankly, nothing yet.

Meanwhile, if you look from the legal side, from the side of international law, mining is a classic "casus belli", a direct act of aggression, a pretext for declaring war.

It is clear that in this case Russia does not have much choice. You will have to fight on land, as in the Great Patriotic War. And beat, as they say, from the heart.

It is clear that a land-based anti-missile system does not have to be destroyed from the sea, using ship weapons for this. The complex is perfectly destroyed by aircraft, MLRS, artillery. Yes, our fleet is not as strong as we would like, so we are really not comfortable with arranging naval battles. Well, our army has no less effective means of destruction at its disposal, capable of destroying the SCRC before the fires can open fire on the ships.

The same applies to the mine infrastructure facilities in Finland and Estonia. Helicopters, minelayers, warehouses - everything becomes the object of a preventive strike from Russia. Hot guys in Tallinn and Helsinki should think about this.

Yes, the Finns not so long ago rehearsed blocking the sea passage to Kaliningrad with the help of mines laid from NH-90 helicopters. Mines "Blocker PM16" actually blocked the passages to Kaliningrad. Now Estonia will conduct training, the mines have been purchased.

It remains only to plan response actions, because they simply must be.


Unfortunately, the Baltic is becoming no less explosive than our Pacific frontiers. And the mines in the Baltic Sea and the Gulf of Finland are, in principle, a repetition of world history. But history doesn't have to repeat itself.
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  1. Boris Sergeev
    Boris Sergeev 22 August 2022 06: 06
    +37
    Well, you must! And the president and the Foreign Ministry assured us that Finland's entry into NATO poses no threat to Russia! By the way, Estonia joined in 2004, no longer under Yeltsin, and then, apparently, they also claimed that there was no threat from this. And yet, as part of the "SVO", Russian troops recaptured the Kinbur spit near Nikolaev and then emphasized that Suvorov had taken this spit. However, how much should Russian soldiers take the places they have already taken? And why do not those who trade in the conquests of their ancestors bear any responsibility?
    1. IVZ
      IVZ 22 August 2022 06: 34
      -4
      Quote: Boris Sergeev
      Well, you must! And the President and the Foreign Ministry assured us that Finland's entry into NATO poses no threat to Russia! By the way, Estonia joined in 2004, no longer under Yeltsin, and then, apparently, they also claimed that there was no threat from this.

      The President proceeded from the interests of these countries, but the governments of these countries have other interests (to say whose - it’s sore) with the interests of the countries that never coincide
      1. Boris Sergeev
        Boris Sergeev 22 August 2022 07: 01
        +24
        The President must proceed from the interests of Russia. But only. The interests of these countries are "taken care of" by the United States, in whose favor Gorbachev and Yeltsin handed them over.
        1. IVZ
          IVZ 22 August 2022 19: 47
          +3
          I had in mind the analytical forecast of the actions of these countries. Finland, based on its own interests, seems to have no reason to aggravate relations with the Russian Federation. Joining NATO was interpreted as strengthening the defense capability. No more. But...
    2. Taimen
      Taimen 22 August 2022 08: 54
      -3
      If we continue to chew snot, but during hostilities ask for permission and show different concerns for everything, then what the hell then the Foreign Ministry and its comrades need and the same "generals" in the General Staff. You need to change everyone, and not whine with a beaten dog in the gateway. Is it no longer leisure to mine the enemy ourselves? Or will we also ask for permission? Or do we not have aviation for mining? Or will gas and oil be stronger than our army?
    3. BlitzZ
      BlitzZ 22 August 2022 11: 31
      +2
      And how could these countries have been prevented from joining NATO? Start a war with them? Are you serious now?
      1. Boris Sergeev
        Boris Sergeev 22 August 2022 12: 45
        -2
        It was very easy to prevent these countries from joining NATO: save the USSR. By the way, the Helsinki Act on the inviolability of borders in Europe was already in force at that time. So actions to preserve the USSR would be fully consistent with the "spirit of Helsinki."
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. frog
            frog 22 August 2022 21: 26
            -1
            She would be futanari wink
        2. BlitzZ
          BlitzZ 23 August 2022 12: 23
          0
          History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. We have what we have. And we are working with it.
        3. Alexander Razin
          Alexander Razin 23 August 2022 14: 47
          -3
          Grandma remembered how she was a girl. Would save - what is now whining?
      2. frog
        frog 22 August 2022 21: 25
        -1
        A year ago, they didn’t seem to want to go to Nata? At least in the press of that time there was no noise for this topic .....
        1. Alexander Razin
          Alexander Razin 23 August 2022 14: 47
          -2
          Who, Estonia???
          1. frog
            frog 23 August 2022 14: 59
            0
            It seems like the speech stood for the Finns with the Swedes ..... As for the former outskirts of the empire, everything was clear right away, even then ....
            1. Alexander Razin
              Alexander Razin 24 August 2022 17: 48
              -1
              You've been following very, very poorly.
              1. frog
                frog 24 August 2022 17: 56
                -1
                I beg your pardon, my profession is different, so do not blame me repeat
    4. Zoer
      Zoer 22 August 2022 11: 43
      +4
      Do you have any doubts that the Finns, even without joining NATO, in the event of a war between the West and the Russian Federation, will take the side of NATO and will do the same? In fact, militarily Finland and Sweden have long been in NATO. All armament and structure of the Armed Forces of these countries are made according to NATO standards.
      1. Boris Sergeev
        Boris Sergeev 22 August 2022 12: 48
        +5
        Probably, Mannerheim should have hung more boards in St. Petersburg, then the Finns would have appreciated Russia's "goodwill gesture"! By the way, during the war, the Finns supported Germany, and then the USSR. They are with those who are stronger. This is what current events show.
        1. Jager
          Jager 22 August 2022 18: 03
          +2
          Iosif Vissarionovich simply did not equate Finland with Leningrad, showing a "goodwill gesture"
    5. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 23 August 2022 14: 19
      +2
      Quote: Boris Sergeev
      However, how much should Russian soldiers take the places they have already taken? And why do not those who trade in the conquests of their ancestors bear any responsibility?


      Let them take it! I thought, God...
  2. mitroha
    mitroha 22 August 2022 06: 07
    +14
    Blocked Kaliningrad will force. By land, stopping the delivery of everything you need is as easy as shelling pears. And if you also block the sea ...
    In the case of blocking mines and attacking Russian anti-ship missiles, this is a war, and the overland route to Kaliningrad is made in the first place, taking the Baltic states into oblivion. And the Finns, yes, continue to follow the spiral of history, remembering how it ended last time
    1. RGB
      RGB 22 August 2022 07: 42
      +10
      It only looks easy in theory. And you look at SVO. Until the land corridor is broken there, there will be nothing left of Kaliningrad.
      1. mitroha
        mitroha 22 August 2022 09: 58
        +2
        Quote from RVA
        It only looks easy in theory. And you look at SVO. Until the land corridor is broken there, there will be nothing left of Kaliningrad.

        NWO and War are somewhat different things. And other forces and means will be involved.
        But yes, it will not be easy to decide on the step of a full-fledged war.
        1. gromit
          gromit 22 August 2022 11: 14
          -1
          What other forces and means will be involved?
          Strategic Missile Forces?)
          1. BlitzZ
            BlitzZ 22 August 2022 11: 34
            0
            First of all, TNW. And full-scale bombing by the entire nomenclature, on a large scale, and not like in Ukraine. And without regard to saving the lives of warriors and civilians from the other side.
            1. gromit
              gromit 22 August 2022 12: 03
              -2
              They have more charges and means of delivery. Will we put our civilians under the knife too?
              1. BlitzZ
                BlitzZ 22 August 2022 13: 02
                +1
                The Russian Federation has plenty of charges and delivery vehicles, parity. In addition, if the initiative will primarily come from the Balts, Finns and others, then NATO will not fit in for them, even despite paragraph 5. And if it does, then the end of our planet.
                1. gromit
                  gromit 22 August 2022 14: 04
                  +2
                  NATO will avoid provocations. They quite rightly expect that they will weaken us with the hands of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, dragging out the conflict in Ukraine. At the same time, of course, they create tension in the Baltic and I am sure, if necessary, in the Caucasus and the Far East.
                  The purpose of the tension is to prevent the Russian Federation from transferring resources to the Ukrainian front.
                  As long as it works.
                  So you didn’t answer, should the lives and health of the population of the Russian Federation be taken into account when planning the destruction of the Balts of nuclear weapons?
                  1. BlitzZ
                    BlitzZ 22 August 2022 15: 08
                    -1
                    To create tension is one thing, but to start full-scale mining is another. Without this, and without blocking river traffic by the NATO navy, it will not be possible to cut off the supply of the Kaliningrad region. Create difficulties - yes.
                    Because of the first, no hot war will begin, and the second is already a casus belli. I talked about the second.
          2. Zoer
            Zoer 22 August 2022 11: 46
            0
            First, tactical nuclear weapons, of which we have much more than in NATO. And there, how it goes. But yes, I think it will be the end of civilization on this planet.
            1. gromit
              gromit 22 August 2022 12: 07
              +7
              And gentlemen Shoigu, Lavrov, Lukashenko, Putin, Gerasimov, Matvienko ... agree with the prospect of turning their children and relatives into radioactive dust?
              They are successful billionaires and talented entrepreneurs.
              1. Repellent
                Repellent 22 August 2022 12: 22
                -6
                Quote from Gromit
                agree with the prospect of turning their kids and relatives

                Change the manual, this one is already moldy.
                1. gromit
                  gromit 22 August 2022 12: 32
                  -1
                  Catch +, poor fellow)
                  1. Repellent
                    Repellent 22 August 2022 12: 37
                    -5
                    Quote from Gromit
                    the poor fellow

                    Well, well yes
              2. Zoer
                Zoer 22 August 2022 22: 46
                0
                This question also haunted me, until 24.02.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX. But now, whatever one may say, we are all in the same submarine ...
          3. frog
            frog 22 August 2022 21: 28
            -1
            Do not prevent citizens from launching their caps into the sky. As long as it's not allowed repeat
      2. g1v2
        g1v2 22 August 2022 15: 49
        +2
        Well, if you look at the NWO, you can see that the saloreich territories occupied for six months are larger than Moldova or Georgia, for example. And in terms of population, they are comparable to the entire Baltic. The scale just doesn't stand out. The defeat of the Baltic states is quite within our power. But this does not solve the problem of "soup with dumplings". The Swedes, Finns, Balts, Danes, etc., are throwing so many mines into the Baltic that our convoys and ships will have to wade through to Kaliningrad with the speed of a turtle and losses. Moreover, under the fire of anti-ship missiles and aviation. PM needs an increase in the number of Alexandrites for escorting convoys and trawling water areas. An increase in the number of 2038x corvettes is needed to protect against anti-ship missiles and aviation. And you need an increase in the number of RTOs to increase the density of a volley of cruise missiles. Well, the increase in naval aviation, of course.
        1. dim999
          dim999 23 August 2022 12: 19
          +1
          Well (let's imagine that we are in the world of pink ponies) we conducted a convoy under the blows of the SCRC and the NATO Air Force - Kaliningrad is blocked by artillery and MLRS from and to directly from Poland, figs what will be unloaded there. So to score on the fleet, normal VKS, SV - and Strategic Missile Forces with a margin.
      3. dim999
        dim999 23 August 2022 12: 15
        0
        If they also go to liberate the fraternal people - yes, but if with artillery and the Air Force according to the standards, taking into account fresh experience - it will still be faster than the food in Kaliningrad will end.
    2. qQQQ
      qQQQ 22 August 2022 08: 39
      +3
      Quote: Mitroha
      In the case of blocking mines and attacking Russian anti-ship missiles, this is a war, and the overland route to Kaliningrad is made in the first place, taking the Baltic states into oblivion.

      Give a week for the Russian-speakers to leave the Baltic territories, and, as in Vysotsky's song, without entering into an argument, roll up with a single blow with a nuclear baton. There will be a lot of stench, even more sanctions, but I doubt that Western countries will want the same thing. In fact, the deed has already been done, limitrophs do not exist in nature, but they do exist. In my opinion, the choice is clear for them. And having got involved in another SVO, we won’t solve anything, while losing the sea to the people and still coming to the exchange of nuclear weapons, and so a preventive strike on small mongrels will allow us to avoid mutual slaughter.
      1. mitroha
        mitroha 22 August 2022 10: 03
        +2
        Quote: qqqq
        without entering into an argument, roll up with a single blow with a nuclear loaf

        It will not work, it will be inconvenient to transport goods to Kaliningrad.
        I propose with a single blow to the VSA, and these themselves will liberate the territory after that, they will also persuade and assure of eternal love laughing
        1. qQQQ
          qQQQ 22 August 2022 10: 54
          0
          Quote: Mitroha
          I propose a single blow to the VSA

          This will not work, there will be a response, and here the trick is to avoid it.
    3. laws70
      laws70 22 August 2022 11: 38
      -1
      In the event of an attack on any one of our ships (at least merchant, at least combat), Estonia must cease to exist on the world map. Moreover, no United States will stand up for it, and Finland will sit quietly ..
    4. Jager
      Jager 22 August 2022 18: 04
      +11
      Ukraine drowned the flagship of the fleet (who pressed the button there is a formality), but no war was declared.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 22 August 2022 06: 18
    +4
    Unfortunately, the Baltic is becoming no less explosive region than our Pacific frontiers.
    Now, all frontiers are explosive, land and sea.
  4. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 22 August 2022 06: 19
    +4
    the main thing is not to miss, intelligence and again intelligence
    1. IVZ
      IVZ 22 August 2022 06: 26
      +4
      the main thing is not to miss, intelligence and again intelligence

      And timely and, if possible, tough responses. NATO unity is most likely like wolf loyalty, it is not to bomb Yugoslavia.
  5. jonht
    jonht 22 August 2022 06: 23
    +4
    In the Baltic, for a long time everything has been shot through with missiles, flown by planes, and the fleet is more like an addition to the army. And any military operations on this theater of operations will be "land". hi
    1. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster
      Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 22 August 2022 06: 38
      +9
      In the event of a war with NATO, no land battles are expected.
      Either there will be a nuclear war or none.
      Moreover, in my opinion, it is necessary to loudly and confidently notify the "neighbors" that they will have to pay for dirty tricks with the lives of their entire population.
  6. Expert_Analyst_Forecaster
    Expert_Analyst_Forecaster 22 August 2022 06: 36
    +7
    Indeed, Estonia and Finland may well deliver global troubles at sea. Even in the absence of fleets, although there is still how to say.


    Why don't our military or politicians publicly discuss the number of nuclear Mt that can completely destroy Estonia and Finland in the event of a blockade?
    In my opinion, this is no more than 20 Mt. But suddenly I'm wrong.
    The peoples of these countries must clearly understand that they will be completely destroyed.
    And the people of Russia must be supported by the facts that will speak about the protection of our interests.
    I understand that the alarmists will howl again that we, too, can be bombed.
    Well, then what - we will not do anything at all? Surrender to the mercy of the Finns and Estonians?
  7. Emergency
    Emergency 22 August 2022 06: 37
    +6
    what Everything is lost! We all will die. I recognize the master's hand.
  8. nikvic46
    nikvic46 22 August 2022 06: 47
    +4
    The more shipping in the Baltic, the more difficult it will be to implement these plans. Everything will look too obvious. Now there are many interesting ideas. True, these ideas are interesting only at first glance. One general expressed the opinion that without wars, the state weakens. There is no need to invent wars. Just when protecting your sovereignty, you should not be afraid of escalation. Find a worthy answer for every attack.
  9. Revolver
    Revolver 22 August 2022 07: 15
    +2
    And the hot Troyebaltsky guys did not think that if Kaliningrad was blockaded from the sea, it would definitely be unblocked by land? With all the ensuing consequences for the Troebalts. Although Estonia is the most yelling right now, Lithuania will be the first to get under the distribution when unlocked, and maybe Poland. But there will be enough people for both Estonians and Latvians.
    1. kamarada
      kamarada 22 August 2022 15: 04
      +3
      But after the blockade of Kaliningrad by the Lithuanians, I’m not sure that this will happen
  10. Adrey
    Adrey 22 August 2022 07: 31
    +3
    In the interval between the wars, the Soviet Union, Finland, Sweden, Germany slowly refurbished their minefields.

    Oh really!? Somehow the story doesn't mention it.
  11. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 22 August 2022 07: 36
    +2
    But history doesn't have to repeat itself.
    belay Rave. History always repeats itself, and more than once. request Crimean, WWI, Civil, WWII and the next will be the same. Krymskaya - let me remind you, with a weak fleet, they sat out in a blockade behind a "mine-artillery position." It's just the Baltic, it's a positional dead end. And the problem of Kaliningrad is solved by the return of the Baltic states by force. We are threatened, we perceive it as an act of aggression. request
    Can the DCBF offer sane resistance if at least a quarter of these forces are involved? Definitely not. Neither in terms of the number of ships, nor in their quality, the Baltic Fleet is able to compete with the fleets of the NATO countries.
  12. Adrey
    Adrey 22 August 2022 07: 38
    +8
    Disband DCBF "as unnecessary"

    Not so radically, but definitely needs to be reformed. The KBF now has less operational space than the Caspian Flotilla request. Anything larger is for the main fleets. PL is a must. Leave every little thing + "rocket gunboats". Everything that can go to Ladoga. Well, an urgent check and reconstruction of the White Sea-Baltic Canal. It will allow to carry out a relative inter-theatre maneuver of forces. By the way, if my memory serves me right, not so long ago, something from a small-medium was distilled over it.
    Well, the fate of Kaliningrad will be entirely in the hands of the ground forces.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 22 August 2022 08: 45
      +2
      Quote: Adrey
      Well, the fate of Kaliningrad will be entirely in the hands of the ground forces.

      As well as the fate of the Suwalki corridor and the entire Baltic region as a whole. This spreading Baltic hydrogen sulfide is not just annoying, but becomes harmful to health ...
  13. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 22 August 2022 07: 53
    -1
    European politicians have too much conceit about themselves. Let them sit down and think, Russia and the USA will destroy the whole world because of Europe.
  14. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 22 August 2022 08: 10
    +1
    "- We will press to the ford, cover with machine guns ... and that's it.
    - A detachment of sabers 300, approximately three carts. With a witness ... I can say that nothing can be guaranteed. If they press us to the river, this, in my opinion, is a cover. "(c)
  15. Evgeny Ivanov_5
    Evgeny Ivanov_5 22 August 2022 08: 18
    +4
    Something a lot lately the word "karma" in the titles of articles. Karma - sneakers, now mines and the Baltic - karma. The very existence of Russia is already karma and life in it too.
  16. yuriy55
    yuriy55 22 August 2022 08: 38
    +2
    Actually, the meaning of the article is defined:
    It is clear that in this case Russia does not have much choice. You will have to fight on land, as in the Great Patriotic War. And beat, as they say, from the heart.

    The question remains unanswered:
    Is the country's leadership capable of giving an adequate response to an adversary who has decided to measure strength with a nuclear power, where even the doctrine indicates the reasons for the use of nuclear weapons, or are we waiting for the prospect of falling into Paradise, and our enemies will probably someday begin to "die"?
    1. gromit
      gromit 22 August 2022 12: 26
      -1
      I want to remind you that even during the Second World War, neither the Reich nor the Union used the gigantic accumulated stocks of poisonous substances and the soldiers went to heaven / died in traditional ways. Although they ran with gas masks in accordance with the pre-war doctrines of the gas war.
      Nuclear weapons give an advantage only if the enemy does not have it.
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 22 August 2022 13: 10
        -2
        Quote from Gromit
        I want to remind you that even during the Second World War

        Unnecessarily ... Remind you of the atomic bombings of Japan? Why do you think young Japanese (many) believe that it was the USSR (Russians) who bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and on memorial days in Japan the main culprit - the United States - is "modestly" hushed up?
        A nuclear weapon is the same dagger that is good for...
        1. alexey sidykin
          alexey sidykin 22 August 2022 15: 01
          -3
          Did the young Japanese tell you what and how they think?
  17. Damir_N
    Damir_N 22 August 2022 08: 39
    +4
    All this comes from confidence in our impunity and our toothlessness, in every sense.
  18. Glagol1
    Glagol1 22 August 2022 08: 39
    +1
    TNW is our trump card. If it weren't for him, all this trash would have been pinned down by now. While missiles with tactical nuclear weapons are aimed at from the city and the base, they are scared.
  19. Vic Vic
    Vic Vic 22 August 2022 09: 05
    +1
    This laying of mines is war. If the enemies expect that they will simply limit our capabilities to the maximum and strangle us, and in response we will twitch and flutter weakly, trying to respond symmetrically, then I hope (I would like to say, I’m sure) there will be no such scenario.
    The beginning of the laying of mines should entail an immediate full-scale military response on our part. Those. crazy fish-eating neighbors should clearly understand that laying mines is the beginning of the end ... possible for everyone.
  20. S. Viktorovich
    S. Viktorovich 22 August 2022 09: 14
    +3
    Mines for the Baltic are a natural and effective weapon, as history has shown. Will be applied by everyone in any conflict. It is from this that one must proceed when recreating the Baltic Fleet. The task is to completely block shipping in the Baltic Sea and mine laying by the "Balts" will only help this. Modern mines can be installed in any area of ​​the Baltic and require fewer of them per unit area ("broadband obstacles").
    Proceeding from such a task, the emphasis in recreating the ship composition of the fleet and aviation should be placed on mine-anti-mine forces. An important component is an extensive network of arsenals for the accumulation of modern weapons. Of the promising means, it is necessary to develop unmanned minelayers of various types of basing.
  21. svoroponov
    svoroponov 22 August 2022 09: 26
    +2
    Can the fleet of ekranoplans be revived. The high speed of movement at low altitude will make it very difficult to defeat them with coastal anti-ship systems. Flying over water and high speed will completely protect against mines. Impact capabilities are not bad, you can give them. Yes, and for the transfer of goods are quite suitable. There are Caspian developments, worked out in practice. It remains to modernize the projects and build. They build much faster than ships. Seaworthiness under the conditions of storms in the Baltic suits them. So why not?.
    And for Estonians, even a simple small war, based on their small numbers, is a direct path to history as an extinct nation. This also applies to the Finns, based on their declining birth rate and losses, in the event of hostilities, of men.
    Finns, like Estonians, because of their attractiveness, will not be able to do anything to increase the birth rate.
    And mining in the Baltic is also expected from our side. They, the Finns and Estonians, are also very dependent on maritime transport. So the return on the destruction of ships will be mutual and it is not known for whom the losses will be more significant ..
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 August 2022 11: 36
      +4
      Quote: svoroponov
      Can the fleet of ekranoplans be revived. The high speed of movement at low altitude will make it very difficult to defeat them with coastal anti-ship systems.

      And their size makes them very easy to defeat RVV and missiles - both in terms of marks from the target, and in terms of no maneuverability.
      So the place of RCC launchers will be taken by IRIS or NASAMS.
      Quote: svoroponov
      Flying over water and high speed will completely protect against mines.

      If it came to mining waters, then this is war. And everything flying will go astray in the same way.
      1. svoroponov
        svoroponov 22 August 2022 17: 22
        0
        In general, an ekranoplan, even a large one, traveling at a speed of 500-600 km per hour on a surface at a height of 3-5 meters with a working modern electronic warfare station and structurally built using a stealth coating, is a very difficult target for Western complexes.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 23 August 2022 10: 27
          0
          Quote: svoroponov
          In general, an ekranoplan, even a large one, traveling at a speed of 500-600 km per hour on a surface at a height of 3-5 meters with a working modern electronic warfare station and structurally built using a stealth coating, is a very difficult target for Western complexes.

          Yeah ... if you forget about such a thing as enemy aircraft. which will definitely be in places of compact flight ekranoplanes. Actually, she is already on duty in the same Tribaltic.
          And for her, the ekranoplan is a target the size of RTOs. Which moves at a speed of 500-600 km / h, facilitating the work of the SDC, but at the same time does not have the speed or maneuverability of a normal aircraft. In general, an ekranoplan for the Air Force is an An-225 flying on WWI.

          This is for the Soviet admirals, for whom the fighters over the ships were of the kind of "fiction on the third shelf" (I'm not talking about AWACS duty in the area), it was possible to fill in about invisible ekranoplanes.
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 23 August 2022 18: 13
            -1
            You forget about our air defense. Just like that, no one will send ekranoplanes, like ships in this cramped theater of operations. There will definitely be air defense cover and aviation support. You do not consider the ekranoplan simply as a unit. It is necessary to consider the whole complex of actions. Indeed, in the conduct of hostilities on our part, not only ekranoplanes will be. It's just a good way to overcome minefields and avoid anti-ship and even a number of aircraft missiles. Not all aircraft missiles can work to capture a target near the surface of the water or land. And air defense systems, their stations, not everyone sees targets near the surface. After all, if the Finns lay mines from helicopters from low altitudes, then they assume that our radars do not observe them either. Otherwise, laying mines with a tracked route loses its meaning. It is clear that mines have been set along the route with these coordinates and the passage is dangerous.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 24 August 2022 12: 15
              +1
              Quote: svoroponov
              You forget about our air defense. Just like that, no one will send ekranoplanes, like ships in this cramped theater of operations.

              And why then the ekranoplan? If we cover it with aircraft, then we have an airfield. And since we have an airfield, it means that instead of an EP, you can build the same number of MFIs in terms of combat load - and hang missiles under them.
              And instead of a subsonic low-maneuverable target the size of RTOs, we get normal MFIs. Which can be used not only for strikes on ships. And which can be transferred to any of the fleets in 1-2 days.

              By the way, it turns out that the combat radius of the ekranoplan is equal to the effective radius of the coastal IA.
              Quote: svoroponov
              It's just a good way to overcome minefields and avoid anti-ship and even a number of aircraft missiles. Not all aircraft missiles can work to capture a target near the surface of the water or land.

              According to the EP, air-to-air missiles can work much more efficiently than on airplanes. Simply due to the huge size of the target and the EPR, comparable to "half a second".
              Plus, everything is bad with constructive protection and, in general, with structural strength, the EP - unlike RTOs, it needs to fly, so the RVV will work on it like a transport or seaplane.
              1. svoroponov
                svoroponov 24 August 2022 20: 32
                0
                Ekranoplans have not a bad carrying capacity. And not bad missile weapons, especially if it is built with today's weapons. It is quite suitable for breaking through a mine blockade and performing combat missions and military cargo transportation.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 25 August 2022 12: 05
                  0
                  Quote: svoroponov
                  Ekranoplans have not a bad carrying capacity.

                  At the level of conventional transport aircraft. It’s just that usually for EP they give the mass of a dry car and a full take-off - forgetting about fuel.
                  Quote: svoroponov
                  And not bad missile weapons, especially if it is built with today's weapons.

                  It was in the days of multi-ton anti-ship missiles that the EP made some sense. And today's anti-ship weapons - the same Onyxes - are suspended under conventional MFIs.
                  1. svoroponov
                    svoroponov 26 August 2022 08: 39
                    0
                    Ekranoplans make sense because they are spared the threat of mines and torpedoes. They have high speed, can carry not bad weapons, and additionally the proximity of the surface makes it difficult to detect them. And if new EPs are built taking into account today's achievements in aircraft and shipbuilding and weapons, then believe me, this will be a very suitable and formidable weapon for this region.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 26 August 2022 10: 21
                      0
                      Quote: svoroponov
                      Ekranoplans make sense because they are spared the threat of mines and torpedoes.

                      They exchanged the threat from mines and torpedoes for the threat from RVV and SAM.
                      Quote: svoroponov
                      can carry not bad weapons and additionally the proximity of the surface makes it difficult to detect them.

                      Difficult compared to what? Compared to a ship sailing on this very surface of the sea? wink
                      Quote: svoroponov
                      And if new EPs are built taking into account today's achievements in aircraft and shipbuilding and weapons

                      Then again you get an oversized undersized hydroplane, which will still be worse than specialized aircraft and ships.
                      1. svoroponov
                        svoroponov 26 August 2022 21: 32
                        0
                        You guys are weird. EP going over the surface at a speed of 500-600 km per hour, and even at an ultra-low altitude, and for coastal missile systems and artillery, that is still a task. Ask the experts.
                        And once again, the ekranoplan itself will not fight individually. But it will be spared from torpedoes and mines as a threat, and it is problematic to hit such a target with coastal missile systems, as well as artillery, by the way. Now take a ship - mines, torpedoes, coastal complexes, coastal artillery. So look at it as a whole.
                      2. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 27 August 2022 19: 45
                        0
                        Quote: svoroponov
                        You guys are weird. EP going over the surface at a speed of 500-600 km per hour, and even at an ultra-low altitude, and for coastal missile systems and artillery, that is still a task.

                        You stubbornly continue to offer to hit the ekranoplan with anti-ship systems. And he has already moved to another environment - and air defense will work on it. Think of it as a plane and treat it like a plane - like a low-flying "Mriya" ..
                        With the same success, submarines can be declared invulnerable - because their defeat for coastal missile systems and artillery is another task.
                        Quote: svoroponov
                        Now take a ship - mines, torpedoes, coastal complexes, coastal artillery

                        The ekranoplan will have RVV and SAM threats. Which the enemy has much more than anti-ship missiles.
                        Moreover, ARL and IK GOS enable air defense systems to fire "beyond the horizon" - at targets invisible to divisional radars. Although this is not so important for the Gulf of Finland: the length of the front of the "Nargen-Porkkala-Udda" position, so beloved in all wars in the Baltic, is only 37 km (in ancient times, even 12 "52 from Nargen, Aegna and Myakiluoto blocked it). Rear position "skerries of Hanko-Osmussaar" - 57 km.
                      3. svoroponov
                        svoroponov 28 August 2022 08: 57
                        0
                        Many Western radars (and ours) practically do not see targets from the surface and up to a height of 15-20
                        meters or at such altitudes, detection is very difficult. I'm telling you this as a former pilot. These are the heights that the EP can use. And to launch missiles, it is necessary that the target be detected and transferred to escort to launch missiles to destroy .. After all, you can’t launch a rocket into nowhere. In addition, ekranoplanes have, albeit not great, but maneuverability - yaw along the course, lapels sliding right and left. This is also a significant plus. And besides, do not forget that EP interception aircraft will also be targets of Russian air defense, and this will also impose its own characteristics on interceptor pilots. And the electronic warfare equipment, along with our aviation, poses a very great danger to the air defense systems of these countries.
                        I reason based on the fact that I know the capabilities of the military means of the Finns (Swedish radar) and Estonians (French radar) as well as many of the characteristics of these radars and weapons.
                      4. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 28 August 2022 14: 14
                        0
                        Quote: svoroponov
                        Many Western radars (and ours) practically do not see targets from the surface and up to a height of 15-20

                        Amendment - they do not see typical air defense targets. Which are inconspicuous (compared to EP) aircraft and KR.
                        Not to see a flying target the size of RTOs - you need to be able to do this.

                        And how then do navigation radars and ONTs radars function, in which targets are generally at zero altitude?
                        Quote: svoroponov
                        And to launch missiles, it is necessary that the target be detected and transferred to escort to launch missiles to destroy .. After all, you can’t launch a missile anywhere.

                        This is for PARLGSN and RKTU. ARLGSN and IK allow launching "in the target mark area" with the subsequent capture of the target by the GOS of the missile itself when approaching the target. That is why they are valuable - a sharp decrease in the requirements for the accuracy of determining the coordinates of the target allows you to shoot at someone else's control center
                        By the way, the same RKTU allows launching "to nowhere" with the subsequent alignment of the "cross" with the target mark that appears.
                        Quote: svoroponov
                        In addition, ekranoplans have, albeit not great, but maneuverability - yaw along the course, lapels sliding right and left. This is also a significant plus.

                        This is for anti-ship missiles such body movements - maneuverability. RVV and missiles were calculated at least for the Tu-22M3, and even the standard MFI.
                      5. svoroponov
                        svoroponov 29 August 2022 17: 26
                        0
                        You see, you are considering the data of Western weapons according to their characteristics, but firstly, they are somewhat overpriced (for sale, boast, and so on), and secondly, in real hostilities, everything is somewhat different than in theory. Although the ES object is large, but the proximity of the surface, speed, perhaps, after all, structurally, the elements of invisibility, the lack of enemy radars, plus methods of hiding from weapons and assistance in escorting ES from other branches of the military, make the prospect of their existence and survival in the Baltic quite real.
  22. bk0010
    bk0010 22 August 2022 09: 42
    -8
    Sketch the mines first, right now. Close the ports of Finland and Estonia. A couple of ships will rake, sea communications will stop - maybe they will grow wiser.
    1. BlitzZ
      BlitzZ 22 August 2022 11: 39
      0
      With a saber drawn and hoping for a chance? No thanks.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 22 August 2022 15: 48
        +1
        But why are they not afraid of "With a saber unsheathed and hoping for a chance"?
        1. BlitzZ
          BlitzZ 22 August 2022 19: 02
          0
          And no one is going to mine the straits from them. This is essentially casus belli. There are no fools there either.
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 22 August 2022 22: 06
            0
            Just an article about the fact that the laying of mines has already been rehearsed and supplied by the Estonians, who have already blocked the land route to Kaliningrad for us. And we got lost.
            1. BlitzZ
              BlitzZ 23 August 2022 12: 19
              -1
              It doesn't matter. The Russian Federation also conducts a lot of exercises.
              No one will dare to block the breakthroughs, because these are international waters. And if they dare, then there will be a war.
              Estonians blocked the passage through their territory and formally have the right to do so.
          2. svoroponov
            svoroponov 24 August 2022 20: 35
            0
            You don't know these small nations. From fear, they blow the roof off,,. They can do trouble, especially at the whistle of Washington. He doesn't risk anything. Will get first of all to executors.
            1. BlitzZ
              BlitzZ 25 August 2022 23: 59
              0
              The fact of the matter is that if they go nuts and they start first, then in the event of a response from the Russian Federation, NATO will not stand up for them. Regardless of point 5.
    2. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 22 August 2022 15: 03
      0
      And you in the forefront of machine guns ...
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 22 August 2022 15: 48
        0
        Then on the mines of the enemy.
  23. Crisp
    Crisp 22 August 2022 12: 39
    +4
    Quote: Boris Sergeev
    Well, you must! And the President and the Foreign Ministry assured us that Finland's entry into NATO poses no threat to Russia!

    You can't read between the lines. The danger from JOINING is practically the same as from NOT JOINING Finland, which actually has NATO infrastructure on its territory. Long ago. So, of course, there is a danger, and not from the fact that some piece of paper is signed. It is always necessary to consider not the signature, but the content. The content has always been, to put it mildly, not encouraging. The picture of our relationship with NATO is not drawn on the borders with Finland and Estonia. Everything is decided in Ukraine. An example of the destruction of one enemy, with a fucking result, with incomparable losses, will teach our "partners" to behave carefully. Let's focus there for now.
  24. Crisp
    Crisp 22 August 2022 12: 41
    +5
    Quote: bk0010
    Sketch the mines first, right now. Close the ports of Finland and Estonia. A couple of ships will rake, sea communications will stop - maybe they will grow wiser.

    It's good that we don't have many coiners. Perhaps you are the only one.
  25. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
    Bekasov Artem Andreevich 22 August 2022 13: 35
    -1
    Kaliningrad and its military infrastructure are a "thorn in the eye" of NATO in the Baltic area. Without addressing this problem, it will be difficult for them to achieve their goals of turning the Baltic into an inland sea of ​​NATO countries.
    In the context of a constant escalation of the situation and a gradual increase in the stakes in the confrontation with Russia, the United States will bring the situation to the extreme and cross the red line beyond which a military clash will be inevitable.
    As in the case with Ukraine, it is quite possible for Russia to use a preemptive strike to create better conditions for the implementation of its own plans to de-blockade Kaliningrad. The most likely methods will be combined actions (Navy - Baltic and Northern Fleets, Aerospace Forces and ground forces of the Northern and Western Districts of the Russian Ministry of Defense):
    Baltic direction:
    1) neutralization of the military infrastructure of the Baltic republics and Finland in order to prevent a retaliatory strike;
    2) Occupation of the coast of Estonia (Narva, Kohla-Jarve, Tallinn);
    3) Penetration of the land corridor to Kaliningrad from Russia (Island-Rezekne-Daugavpils-Kaunas-Vilnius and Oshmyany-Vilnius-Kaunas-Liepaja) in order to neutralize the Suwalki corridor;
    4) Capture of the island of Saarema and its airport, blockade of Riga from the sea and from land;
    5) For those who are especially dull - refusal to recognize the borders of the Baltic countries, Poland and Finland, mine laying in Finland (Helsinki) and Poland (Gdynia (Naval) and Gdansk), Denmark's ultimatum to the passage of warships of third countries with the threat of strikes on Copenhagen, military infrastructure and the Danish straits, Finland, Poland and Sweden - an ultimatum on strikes on military infrastructure in case of support for the actions of neighboring countries, to offer Germany to independently resolve the issue with Shetsin and Svinouste with our full support. The fate of the Baltic states to decide independently without looking back at the opinion of third countries.
    North direction:
    6) Blockade of the northern coast of Norway (Bode and Trondheim);
    7) Withdrawal of strike forces to the line Norway (Sweden), Shetland and Fares Islands-Iceland;
    8) The capture of Kirkenes, Tromsø and the island of Spitzbergen (Norway) in case of NATO support in the conflict.
    Rapid action by Russia will lead to the refusal of the countries of the Baltic region to attempt further escalation. At the same time, the situation will radically change in our direction and will make it clear to all other participants that any further actions against Russia will quickly lead to the start of a Great War with the possible use of nuclear weapons.
    1. S. Viktorovich
      S. Viktorovich 22 August 2022 14: 34
      0
      Good plan for 1945. Now, in order to minimize the superiority of NATO in the Baltic, it is more correct to close it with mines for everyone. "so do not get you to anyone!".
    2. BlitzZ
      BlitzZ 22 August 2022 19: 05
      0
      The plan is not bad, but plans don't always go according to plan, huh. In addition, all this will quickly lead to nuclear escalation.
  26. Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 22 August 2022 15: 59
    -1
    Quote from Gromit
    And gentlemen Shoigu, Lavrov, Lukashenko, Putin, Gerasimov, Matvienko ... agree with the prospect of turning their children and relatives into radioactive dust?
    They are successful billionaires and talented entrepreneurs.

    It's only August, and the autumn exacerbation of fools has already begun ...
  27. Novosibirsk
    Novosibirsk 22 August 2022 17: 41
    -1
    People still go to Kld for permanent residence, which is strange.
  28. Radikal
    Radikal 22 August 2022 17: 58
    -1
    Roma, that's right, there is only one solution - as in 1940, otherwise there is no other way, plus the solution of the Suwalki corridor. This problem will still have to be solved, it's obvious, and p=in_dos understood about it, they throw equipment there, p=ri-du=rki., as if it would help. On this small site, which these three are, how to call them softer - in short, there are three collective farms, one of which catches fish, the other smokes it, and the third milks it. That's the whole European integration. Puffing up. sad They only knew how to roam the forests and shoot in the back! Children u-r=odov!
  29. TOR2
    TOR2 22 August 2022 20: 24
    -1
    The integration of the anti-missile defense of Finland and Estonia will make it possible to close the Gulf of Finland to Russian warships. The Baltic Sea with the accession of Finland and Sweden to NATO will become the inland sea of ​​the alliance

    In this scenario, there is no need to be particularly shy. Calmly and without hints, tell these boys how many kilotons will be dumped on their coast.
    Well, then ... As academician Ostretsov says, it is necessary to blow up a few megatons of commercials in the deepest place of the Norwegian Trench. The distance is short, and we have means of fast delivery. The coastline will not withstand such a water hammer - no options. That which has time to swim will continue to swim belly up. In addition, this explosion will provoke seismic activity, so it will not only get their coastline. They will no longer be up to Kaliningrad. In addition, an underwater nuclear explosion is considered conditionally clean.
  30. Dart2027
    Dart2027 22 August 2022 20: 37
    +1
    And what's the point of putting ships out to sea at all? Breaking the blockade? So this is already a full-fledged war in which the Baltic states will have to be demolished, because without this it will not be possible to defend Kaliningrad.
  31. certero
    certero 23 August 2022 03: 36
    -1
    Quote: Mitroha
    NWO and War are somewhat different things. And other forces and means will be involved.
    But yes, it will not be easy to decide on the step of a full-fledged war.

    We have heard these stories many times. With the exception of atomic weapons, almost everything is involved in it.
  32. certero
    certero 23 August 2022 08: 58
    -1
    Why the hell do we need a fleet then? In the Second World War, there was little sense from ships, now, during their time, there is also little.
  33. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
    Bekasov Artem Andreevich 23 August 2022 11: 48
    0
    Quote: certero
    Why the hell do we need a fleet then? In the Second World War, there was little sense from ships, now, during their time, there is also little.

    And the First WWII had a return from the BF, because they hit first and actively behaved against the Deutsches. The preventive mine war was especially successful - 48 units. the Germans against 23 units. of our warships from 1914 to 1917. Plus support by the fleet for the actions of ground forces.
  34. Bekasov Artem Andreevich
    Bekasov Artem Andreevich 23 August 2022 11: 56
    0
    Quote: S. Viktorovich
    Good plan for 1945. Now, in order to minimize the superiority of NATO in the Baltic, it is more correct to close it with mines for everyone. "so do not get you to anyone!".

    Not the best option, but quite possible in war conditions (the success of the mine war in the First World War and the absence in the Second World War in the conditions of an unexpected attack and a long retreat). Since then, the Aerospace Forces have changed a lot, missile troops have appeared and developed, and much more.
    But, so far, we are only talking about escalating the situation, and not military actions. We are tested for strength and determination. And here, as in chess, whoever can quickly create the best conditions for himself to complete the game will most likely win.
  35. Alexander Razin
    Alexander Razin 23 August 2022 14: 45
    -1
    Nafig no need to strengthen the Baltic Fleet. Money down the drain.
    Strengthen ground forces and aviation
  36. Evgeny_Sviridenko
    Evgeny_Sviridenko 23 August 2022 15: 44
    -1
    As I understand it, scenarios from the times of World War II are being painted, when there were no nuclear weapons yet. And that now everything will also go according to the old scenarios? Even without touching the territory of any sprats, the bay is cleared by several tactical nuclear charges detonated in the water. If something is wrong, please explain.
  37. Locksmith
    Locksmith 26 August 2022 19: 17
    0
    Eh Roman, Roman Your energy and for peaceful purposes ... wink