Ship or ship: on the classification and organization of the sailing fleet

There is a well-known beautiful saying that there were times when ships remained wooden, but people remained iron. This saying largely characterizes the maritime character in general and the character of those particular sailors who sailed on one-, two-, three-masted ships and ships.

If we talk about wooden sailing ships, then this is a centuries-old story, which begins before the advent of a new era. And over all these centuries, development has been going on, there has been a transformation of merchant and military fleets, in which some historical civilizations did not hesitate to borrow technical and technological achievements from others.

At the same time, an important characteristic of ships and vessels of past centuries differs from their direct characteristics in the Naval navy Russia of today. Servicemen and veterans of the Navy of the Russian Federation (USSR) react painfully when a warship (be it, for example, a missile boat) is called a ship. In the past, the concept of "ship" had a specific image. It must be at least a three-masted vessel.

Wooden ships and vessels had a strict designation of structural elements. By the time the sailing fleet flourished, the designations entrenched in the “marine” language were a whole scattering of terms for which special reference books were created that have survived to this day.
Distinguished ships and ships with straight and oblique sails. In addition, brigantines and barkentines were used - ships with mixed sailing equipment (weapons).

Kirill Nazarenko, Doctor of Historical Sciences, talks about the structure of a sailing wooden fleet, ship flags and naval features on the channel “In the footsteps of Suvorov”:

Comments

[Flooding]

Nazarenko can talk about ships for hours.
Excellent navy.

[rocket757]

Romance, however.
Who has not sailed ... try it, it's wonderful!

[Uncle lee]

the ships were wooden, but the people were made of iron.

For several years he worked on a sailing-motor hunting schooner, a wooden ....

[rocket757]

This is already work, there is not much time left for romance ... although, walking on a yacht, for example, is just a passenger, this is an amateur / lazy person ...

[Real Pilot]

Quote: rocket757

Romance, however.
Who has not sailed ... try it, it's wonderful!

And in an hour I have access to the sea ... On a 10-meter yacht, really. But this is a whole "Bermuda sloop", based on sailing weapons.

[rocket757]

One can only envy and remember how they themselves sailed ...

[Real Pilot]

Quote: rocket757

One can only envy and remember how they themselves sailed ...

We are still stretching the "diesel sheet".
There is no wind! We put the staysail at the beginning, but the half-knot is not speed.

[aleks700]

"In the past, the concept of "ship" had a specific image. It must be at least a three-masted vessel."
How is that? Vessel or ship?! Decide.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Warship, civil ship.

[Morris812]

All ships are ships. But not all ships are ships.

[DenVB]

Quote: Morris812

All ships are ships. But not all ships are ships.

This is where I would argue. There is also such a thing as a submarine. She is clearly a ship, but can she be considered a ship?

[Flooding]

Quote: DenVB

She is clearly a ship, but can she be considered a ship?

Vessel is a more collective word.
Unlike the word "ship".

They began to use it in Russian, if I am not mistaken, already in Petrine Russia.
When Dutch maritime terminology was introduced into circulation.
In Dutch, this word also has a double meaning, as in English.
I don’t know Dutch, but in English vessel is a ship (like a ship) and a ship (like a container).

Therefore, we sometimes use the word vessel in relation to the vessel.
Because, by analogy with the Europeans, they began to use a utensil term in relation to floating transport.

[Morris812]

submarine or)

[kig]

Quote: DenVB

There is also such a thing as a submarine.

The first Russian submarine was officially called the "hidden ship". It is much more interesting why it is a "boat" and not something else. Moreover, foreign submariners in all languages ​​often call it that way. It is clear that this has been the custom for a long time, but why? Most likely due to the size. The first "boats" were very small.

[Maxim G]

In tsarist times, during the Russo-Japanese War, the ship and the military were called.

[Commodore Arctic]

Servicemen and veterans of the Navy of the Russian Federation (USSR) react painfully when a warship (be it, for example, a missile boat) is called a ship.

infuriates when some kind of fishing seiner (dry cargo tanker, etc.) is called - SHIP

[Alemax]

Not a dry cargo ship, but a bulk carrier! :)

[Commodore Arctic]

decipher MBSS

[Alemax]

marine self-propelled dry-cargo barge, but what?))

[Commodore Arctic]

Bulk carrier is a type of dry cargo ship
In a bulk carrier, cargo is transported only in bulk

[Alemax]

Yes, I know)). It's just that the bulk carrier sounds mysterious)) You can't even joke. :)

[Grossvater]

Classification: civil ship, military ship was introduced in 39-40 by the People's Commissar of the Navy Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov. With all my sincere respect for him, somewhat ill-conceived.
The word ship has long had two meanings:
Vessel with ship's sailing equipment, three or more masts with straight sails;
Warship of the first three ranks in the coordinate system - ship, frigate, corvette, sloop.
Therefore, it is not entirely correct to call the Kruzenshtern bark a ship, like some kind of trawl.
The frequently used term: "Battleship" in relation to sailboats is of very recent origin. In general, until 1907 the word linear meant the purpose of a warship, and not its class. Therefore, in the literature of the XNUMXth century, there are expressions "linear frigate: this is about ships of the Pallada class", and later, "linear battleship".
In the memoirs of admirals of the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries, the phrases are often found: "I am with such and such a ship ..."

[Alemax]

They got ahead))) I also wanted to be smart, but .. Alas :))
The only thing I didn’t understand is why Kruzenshtern / Padua did not please you as a "ship"?))
He is a ship by definition, based on the presence of straight sails on three masts. And so, this is a sailing cargo ship, initially)
ps I throw it on the fan, regardless of Krusenstern.
Sailing Boat, for example.
:)

[bang]

From "BSE":

Sailing ship silhouettes:
1 - with sprit sailing equipment; 2 - with rake sailing weapons; 3 - with Bermuda sailing equipment; 4 - with Latin sailing weapons; 5 - with gaff sailing equipment; 6 - cutter; 7 - Luger; 8 - schooner brig; 9 - two-masted schooner; 10 - brigantine; 11 - brig; 12 - three-masted schooner; 13 - schooner-bark; 14 - barquentine; 15 - three-masted barque; 16 - frigate;
17 - four-masted barque;
18 - four-masted ship;
19 - five-masted barque.

[Zadok]

Quote: DenVB

can it be considered a ship?

and what to do with ekranoplanes?

[UA3QHP]

Flying ship.

[Silhouette]

The civil classification (Rosrerflot and GIMS) calls almost any displacement watercraft (from an inflatable boat to a tanker) a ship, which is not entirely correct. The military classification calls a ship only a certain displacement and a boat will never be a ship. A ship is a specially designed and built armed vessel. But this is no longer a ship. On ships and boats - commanders, on ships - captains. Everything is simple and clear.

[shark507]

Quote: aleks700

Warship, civil ship.

Purely formally - "a ship is a ship with weapons." A sailing ship has sailing equipment.