False sense of security: how Finns and Swedes can strengthen NATO

99

Source: oper-1974.livejournal.com


Washington Goals Achieved


The Russian special operation in Ukraine, provoked by the actions of the West, has frightened some countries so much that they are ready to sacrifice their sovereignty in exchange for a false sense of security. Sweden and Finland, longtime "pacifists" in the turbulent sea of ​​world politics, under pressure from the United States, applied to join the North Atlantic Alliance.



On August 9, Biden showed everyone an example and ratified the inclusion of the Scandinavian countries in NATO - Spain, Greece, Portugal, Slovakia, Turkey, the Czech Republic and Hungary remained. There is no doubt that these countries will sign any papers. Turkey is still balking, but this is just another round of attempts to sit on all the chairs at the same time, which Erdogan has so far succeeded in doing.

Obviously, there is no point in denying that Washington's long-standing dream of drawing the countries of northern Europe, especially Sweden, into the alliance has been crowned with success. At least on paper, the score is in favor of NATO. The main questions are how justified is the refusal of the Swedes and Finns from long-term neutrality and what threats and bonuses does the loss of independence bring in exchange for deceptive protection?

First of all, one must understand that neither Stockholm nor Helsinki were on the lists of Russia's priority targets. Only in an inflamed mind can one imagine that the Kremlin will launch an operation to demilitarize its northern neighbors. Relations were either neutral or conditionally friendly. Negatively colored can be called the intersection of the interests of Sweden and Finland with Russia in the Arctic region. But even here, the countries were involved in a coupling with NATO and other alliances, and therefore the responsibility had to be borne collectively.

And the number of Scandinavian armies never struck the imagination. On the scale of the alliance, which consists of 30 countries, the armed forces of the candidates also do not have much weight. Sweden has 14,6 thousand fighters and only 10 thousand in reserve, while Finland has 19,25 and 238 thousand, respectively. For comparison: the Turkish army, which puts spokes in the Scandinavian wheels, has more than 550 thousand people.

The Scandinavians have exclusively defensive troops, unable to attack independently and on a large scale. Finns have up to 200 tanks, about 200 infantry fighting vehicles, 750 armored personnel carriers, more than 3 artillery pieces (many Soviet-style), 000 aircraft, up to 50 helicopters and more than 20 warships. The Swedes are somewhat more modest - more than 20 tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, 500 fighters, a little more than 96 artillery pieces, 450 submarines and more than 5 surface ships. As Western analysts note, this arsenal does not have the means to "project power beyond its borders."


Source: vladtime.ru

What could Sweden and Finland, not burdened by NATO, count on in the event of the start of a third world war? For the same thing that Stockholm used so much during the entire period of the unprecedented massacre - the preservation of its own cultural heritage and large profits from trade weapons and resources. By the way, if Finland has been in the shoes of neutrality for a short time (since the end of World War II), then Sweden has been avoiding military alliances for more than two hundred years.

Since the admission of these two countries to NATO, they become legitimate targets for Russia. Recall that at the June summit, the alliance declared our country "the most significant threat" and no longer perceives it as a partner. Brussels only needs to be reminded when Russia was a de facto partner of the military alliance, and not on paper. When did it rapidly absorb the Baltic states and Eastern Europe?

Scandinavian "bonuses"


Finland and Sweden, in the event of an aggravation of the NATO-Russia conflict to a hot state, find themselves in a completely disadvantageous position. It still needs to be hit by ballistic missiles in the UK, for the Scandinavians a massive launch of tactical nuclear weapons carriers will be enough. Proximity to the Russian border does not allow the deployment of effective missile defense - the reaction time is reduced to critical values.

It is not entirely clear whether those in power in these countries were able to adequately convey to respectable citizens of the European north about all the delights of joining NATO and "security" under the American, British and French nuclear umbrella. The notorious Article 5 of the alliance's charter, which regulates a collective military response to aggression against any country, works the same way in the opposite direction. For the actions of individual members of NATO, the other players in the alliance bear full responsibility.

Be that as it may, strategically NATO receives almost 800 thousand square meters. kilometers of new territory near the very borders of Russia. It is too early to talk about a serious preponderance of forces on these frontiers - it will take the West several years to reformat the armed forces of the Scandinavian countries. It is also premature to talk about the deployment of strike weapons that directly threaten Russia - Brussels will obviously be careful not to provoke a war. But the airfields for NATO aviation in Finnish Rovaniemi, Tampere, Kuopio and Tikkakoski is a serious threat to the north-west of Russia. And, of course, the Baltic Sea, which from now on will become the final inland water body of NATO.

In addition to losing their remaining autonomy, Helsinki and Stockholm will face several financial burdens. First of all, this is the NATO requirement for each country to spend at least 2% of GDP on defense. In the past, not all countries observed this rule, or rather, compliance was the exception in the alliance rather than the rule. Only the USA, Great Britain, Poland, Estonia, Greece and Latvia regularly spent 2% or more. The rest saved as much as they could. After February 24, this focus will no longer work - NATO intends to arm itself to the teeth, and this fate will affect the new members in the first place. In which case, it is the Finns and the Swedes who will hold back Russia on the northern borders, so the filling of the military budget will be strictly monitored.

For reference, last year Sweden spent $7,9 billion on defense, or 1,3% of GDP, Finland is formally already in the alliance - $5,9 billion and 2%, respectively. Sweden announced an increase in military spending to $11 billion by 2025 two years ago. What does it say? For the Scandinavian countries, joining the anti-Russian military alliance becomes a complete formality - they were actively building up the power of the army until February 2022.


Swedish RPG Carl Gustav M4

Sweden in this game is a particularly tasty morsel for the American military-industrial complex. The fact is that, unlike Finland, the Swedes have a powerful defense industry. Perhaps, Sweden does not produce now only tanks of its own design - in all other respects, military high-tech is quite at the world level. Saab Bofors Dynamics is able to build anti-ship missiles, and Saab AB is able to build fourth-generation fighters and AWACS aircraft. Swedish gunsmiths are consistently among the top ten largest exporters in the world.

Is this interesting to Washington, which is thoroughly pumping its military industry during a special operation in Ukraine? Of course not, so the Swedish military industry is waiting for a slow death under the sauce of "optimization to NATO standards." First, the guns will be transferred to unified platforms, and these will not be Volvo chassis. Then the turn of replacing the electronic filling will come, the vaunted Swedish steel will go under the knife next.

At best, the military-industrial complex will remain the role of a local supplier, or a court atelier of some American defense industry giant, which does not allow spending money on promising developments. If you want to be in NATO, know how to part with your illusions.
99 comments
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  1. -8
    14 August 2022 04: 37
    False sense of security: how Finns and Swedes can strengthen NATO
    Yes, well, them. Do not touch, do not smell. And we did not touch anyone, they climb themselves. request Another thing is the rise in energy prices, the military-industrial complex will not pull production. request
    1. -2
      14 August 2022 05: 38
      I am clarifying. Their military-industrial complex, not ours, ours will already pull everything out. hi
      1. dSK
        0
        16 August 2022 13: 40
        The states received a couple more "foreign hands" and are preparing to "last fin and the Swede" to plant democracy further east ...
  2. 0
    14 August 2022 05: 33
    Maybe they will execute the Liver King and set up their Lagertha?
    1. 0
      14 August 2022 05: 44
      Quote from nirokok
      Maybe they will execute the Liver King and set up their Lagertha?

      Berserkers on the buttons are not capable of this. Only if you shoot in the head like Breivik recourse
    2. +6
      14 August 2022 13: 15
      Russian special operation in Ukraine scared so much ...

      The military operation inspired rather than frightened the Swedes and Finns. sad
  3. 0
    14 August 2022 05: 58
    Judging by the intonation from all sides, it smells of war. And everyone is relying on their military power. They forget about one thing, now all structures are imbued with bureaucracy, including the military. mobilize for a few hours. What hours? Days. So it turns out, all this is far-fetched. And for this, in which case, everyone will have to answer.
  4. +5
    14 August 2022 06: 32
    They can give us hemorrhoids in the Gulf of Finland. Not the Baltic Fleet, of course, but the ferry service with Kaliningrad. They will impose sanctions on supply ships and steamers and will not let them pass through their territorial waters. Will we have to organize convoys?
    1. +11
      14 August 2022 07: 15
      Quote: tralflot1832
      They will impose sanctions against supply ships and ships and will not allow them to pass through their territorial waters. Will we have to organize convoys?


      After leaving the territorial waters of the Russian Federation, eight and a half miles to the West from the Russian island of Gogland (not to be confused with the Swedish island of Gotland) and before entering the Russian territorial waters, 12 miles to the North West from the entrance gate of the port of Baltiysk in the Kaliningrad region, sailing Russian vessels and ships throughout the entire route of navigation are carried out in neutral waters, that is, in peacetime, not wartime, practically unhindered, in accordance with established traffic separation systems and recommended courses






      From here: https://balt-lloyd.ru/morskaja-praktika/morskoe-pravo/territorialnye-vody-gosudarstv-v-baltijskom-more
      1. +1
        14 August 2022 07: 35
        Thank you enlightened! hi
      2. -4
        14 August 2022 13: 18
        Well, this whole story is not for the sake of the war, after which Finland and Sweden will cease to exist on the map, but solely for the sake of money that was completely in vain lingering in the pockets and on the accounts of local taxpayers. Contracts for the supply of F-35, Abramsov, Chimeras, etc. should not protect the population of Scandinavia, but the American military-industrial complex.
    2. +10
      14 August 2022 10: 12
      And the fact that St. Petersburg from Finland is within easy reach does not bother you?
      1. -9
        14 August 2022 10: 30
        Do you propose pushing Europe aside?
        1. +13
          14 August 2022 12: 51
          We started to push NATO further away, but in the end, thanks to Finland, we got NATO even closer, counting in St. Petersburg already. And to this we are told that everything is normal as it was intended)
          1. -7
            14 August 2022 13: 21
            So what? The answer will be adequate, how many kilometers from Belomorsk to Helsinki. I am surprised that Finland and Sweden did not join NATO in 2014 .. They began to develop Russophobia in their countries not on February 24, but much earlier.
            1. +9
              14 August 2022 14: 10
              Well, how would it be now possible to officially drag the American missile defense systems to Finland to the border of the Russian Federation and erase St. Petersburg in one gulp, and so everything is according to plan
              1. -2
                14 August 2022 14: 16
                Chimera DESTROY, St. Petersburg? Check out our military doctrine! The panic on the ship is worse than a fire.
            2. +6
              14 August 2022 18: 03
              Quote: tralflot1832
              .I am surprised that Finland and Sweden did not join NATO in 2014 ..R

              They tried, not all parties were in favor. All this time, through the media and TV, they stubbornly drummed into the people the idea that Russia is an aggressor. Although even if a referendum on joining NATO were held now, the result would hardly be positive. Therefore, they did not take risks, they did without people's opinion, they blamed everything on a lack of time and finances.
      2. +4
        14 August 2022 12: 19
        Quote: Clever man
        And the fact that St. Petersburg from Finland is within easy reach does not bother you?

        I agree with you. Proximity to the Russian Federation is important for the legal deployment of NATO structures. And this is radar and reconnaissance, the deployment of missile defense and other weapons and personnel. The armies of these countries are of last interest to NATO. hi
    3. +4
      14 August 2022 11: 47
      What sanctions and blockade? This is war. Moreover, based on real agreements, which, when marking state borders, were established for these countries, some of them are neutral waters. Don't confuse territorial waters with economic zone.
  5. -13
    14 August 2022 06: 33
    So far, Turkey has not said its "Yes". And if the Swedes and Finns want to ruin their industry, then we will not interfere. I remember that somewhere in the late 90s I talked with the Hungarians. They complained very much that by joining the EU they lost both industry and agriculture. Now Hungary, although a member of NATO, has embarked on the path of making independent decisions. It won't be long before both Finland and Sweden realize their mistake and quickly win back.
    1. 0
      14 August 2022 07: 03
      The Finns did not refuse to build an icebreaker for Norilsk Nickel. The shipyard is for sure. The Finnish government will make a decision within two months. The final beneficiaries of the Finnish shipyard are ours! These are pies with "kittens".
    2. +5
      14 August 2022 11: 53
      If the Americans covet their military-industrial complex, especially Sweden, then no one will say anything and will not jump anywhere. They, the Americans, will simply change the government, introduce most of their supporters into the legislature, an example is Germany, and for “protection”, they will deploy a military contingent. Surely this will be the case. Well, that military commissar that competes with American enterprises will simply be quietly strangled. Fighter aircraft will definitely be brought to naught. The rest must be looked at, who produces what and competes.
      1. +2
        14 August 2022 17: 56
        Quote: svoroponov
        Well, that military commissar that competes with American enterprises will simply be quietly strangled. Fighter aircraft will definitely be brought to naught. The rest must be looked at, who produces what and competes.

        You need to look at what Wallenberg releases. It was he who traveled with the Minister of Economics to Finland for a NATO meeting.
  6. +13
    14 August 2022 06: 55
    Only in an inflamed mind can one imagine that the Kremlin will launch an operation to demilitarize its northern neighbors.
    You know, until the end of February of this year, I was thinking the same thing about relations with Ukraine... Moreover, the men from the high-ceilinged offices so persuaded me to believe in it.
    1. -2
      14 August 2022 07: 45
      M-yes? And I always thought that Ukraine should be destroyed ... more precisely, since they started jumping around shouting "moskolyak to gilyak."
  7. +4
    14 August 2022 07: 07

    It's been nine years
  8. +22
    14 August 2022 07: 18
    Why "false sense of security"? What a self-soothing statement. But the matter is much more serious. Our president, as always, is in full confidence that there is nothing to worry about .... The day before, speaking at the CSTO summit, President Vladimir Putin said that the decision of Helsinki and Stockholm in itself does not threaten Russia. “As for expansion, including through the new members of the alliance – Finland and Sweden, Russia has no problems with these states. Therefore, in this sense, expansion at the expense of these countries does not create an immediate threat for Russia.... The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, represented by its minister, sings along with him ....... "The entry of two new countries into NATO will not fundamentally change the situation in the region," he said. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, speaking at the New Horizons educational marathon, says that the alliance has been taking into account the territory of Finland and Sweden for many years in military planning for moving to the east.... It is not clear in which world the GDP lives, and its surroundings, but it is worth taking a look at the map of the Baltic Sea
    and it will become clear that the Kaliningrad region is assigned the role of a "heroic sacrifice." And Peter, by the way, the president's hometown, in the military scenario will be kirdyk. Thus, the age-old dream of the West will come true, to clog the window to Europe .....
    What an interesting time we live in. It's only the beginning.
    1. -8
      14 August 2022 07: 30
      Quote: Unknown
      Our president, as always, is in full confidence that there is nothing to worry about.

      That is why the last decade and a half have been re-equipping the army.

      Thanks to your comments and contrary to the president's confidence.
      1. +23
        14 August 2022 08: 07
        Quote: Flood
        That is why the last decade and a half have been re-equipping the army.

        Thanks to your comments and contrary to the president's confidence.

        As for the rearmament of the army, there are big doubts, there were a number of articles on V.O. But no one will dispute the fact that the security of the country is maintained thanks to Soviet nuclear shield created in those distant times. So glory to the USSR, the bulwark of peace, all over the world!!!
        1. -12
          14 August 2022 08: 15
          Quote: Unknown
          As for the rearmament of the army, there are big doubts, there were a number of articles on V.O.

          For example?
          Voice your doubts.
          Don't torture us with ignorance.

          Quote: Unknown
          the security of the country is maintained thanks to the Soviet nuclear shield created in those distant times

          I dispute this "fact".
          You make it very easy.
          Nuclear weapons are a deterrent from the Great War, the last argument.

          In response to which Americans have learned coups d'état, color revolutions, swamp areas, numerous non-profit organizations, agents of influence in governments, Ukraine and Kosovo on the borders of obedient countries.

          If this is not the most real threat to national security, what is?
          1. +17
            14 August 2022 08: 54
            Quote: Flood
            For example?
            Voice your doubts.
            Don't torture us with ignorance

            No need to suffer, you just need to read publications on these topics, for example "Time is an honest person. Or perception of reality through the eyes of a pensioner", there are others, look for the entire site at your disposal.
            Quote: Flood
            Nuclear weapons are a deterrent from the Great War, the last argument.

            There would be no nuclear weapons, they ate and did not choke. All developments of the Russian military-industrial complex, improvement of Soviet systems .... When developing the Sarmat ICBM, the concept of "orbital bombardment" was revived, implemented in 1962 in the Soviet R-36orb rocket [30 ... Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 668 -212 about the development of the Topol missile system was published on July 19, 1977 [5] ...... and the list goes on. Not without reason, with the advent of Yeltsin, they began trading with the Americans ....... "The head of the White House said that he welcomes B. Yeltsin's proposal to reduce the parties' nuclear warheads on long-range missiles to 2500 units, which will be deeply studied by experts of the two states .".... But at the moment they got it, the Soviet backlogs are not endless, you can be left with nothing, then for sure, they'll bury it.

            .
            1. -13
              14 August 2022 08: 56
              Quote: Unknown
              No need to suffer, you just need to read publications on these topics, for example, Time is an honest person. Or perception of reality through the eyes of a pensioner

              Pardon my curiosity.
              What you listed has to do with the problems of rearmament of the army?
              1. +9
                14 August 2022 09: 05
                Quote: Flood
                Pardon my curiosity.
                What you listed has to do with the problems of rearmament of the army?

                Of course. The problem of the UPL, why go far, Roman wrote, there are no traveling berets !? Since the collapse of the Union, probably five times the uniform has changed, that's all rearmament. All to one.
                1. -6
                  14 August 2022 09: 07
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Of course. The problem of the UPL, why go far, Roman wrote, there are no traveling berets !? Since the collapse of the Union, they have probably changed their uniforms five times, that's all rearmament.

                  Understood your claim.
                  Bertsy. That's all?

                  Quote: Unknown
                  As for the rearmament of the army, there are big doubts

                  Not so big, it turns out.

                  PS
                  Sorry, my carelessness is to blame.
                  Read and highlighted in the quote.
                  It turns out that the replacement of uniforms is all about the rearmament of the army.
                  And now our troops are not hitting enemy military targets with calibers, but with worthless berets.

                  I understand the level of your objectivity.
                  1. +11
                    14 August 2022 09: 46
                    And now our troops are not hitting enemy military targets with calibers, but with worthless berets.

                    Isn't Caliber greetings from the USSR? 1984?
                    1. -6
                      14 August 2022 09: 50
                      Quote: Slavutich
                      Isn't Caliber greetings from the USSR? 1984?

                      But was it not about the rearmament of the Russian army?
                      Or did they manage to make hundreds of calibers for the successor in the USSR?
                      Looks like they didn't make it.

                      I am far from belittling the merits of the Soviet military-industrial complex, thanks to which Russia now has modern weapons.
                      I wrote about new weapons that have been supplied to the RF Armed Forces for the past 15 years.

                      And when they write that there was no rearmament, I say that this is a blatant lie.
                      1. +10
                        14 August 2022 15: 07
                        Quote: Flood
                        I am far from belittling the merits of the Soviet military-industrial complex, thanks to which Russia now has modern weapons.
                        I wrote about new weapons that have been supplied to the RF Armed Forces for the past 15 years.

                        And when they write that there was no rearmament, I say that this is a blatant lie.

                        They were infected with confidence from the leadership of the VSR, because they always have everything in the top five ... As Deputy Minister of Defense Alexei Krivoruchko said in his report, in the fourth quarter of 2021, 17 new aircraft were delivered to the Russian Aerospace Forcesincluding two fifth-generation Su-57 fighters.. At this rate, maybe in five years, about twenty VKS of Russia will have, if they are not outdated by this time. Okay, they have already come to terms with the fact that Shoigu did not serve in the army, but when he becomes his deputy - Alexei Yuryevich Krivoruchko (born July 17, 1975, Stavropol, RSFSR, questions arise. Graduated from the Institute of Management, Economics, Law and Informatics (2005) , the Russian Academy of Public Administration under the President of the Russian Federation (2010) and the Military Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.In five years, he managed to complete what others take decades.At 24, from 1999 to 2001, he worked as Deputy General Director , General Director of Rostov Civil Aviation Plant No. 412. Prodigy!? As a student From 2004 to 2005 - Advisor to the Deputy General Director for Logistics at Aeroflot - Russian Airlines OJSC. consultant of the department of regional and offset programs at FSUE "ROSOBORONEXPORT. Not by the day, but by the hour. Well, the crown of a career, from 2006 to 2014 For 2018 years, he held the position of General Director of JSC Concern Kalashnikov.

                        By Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated June 13, 2018, he was appointed Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. He oversees the issues of organizing military-technical support of the Armed Forces, planning the development of weapons, military and special equipment, monitoring the implementation of the state defense order, organizing patent-licensing, inventive and rationalization work in the Armed Forces.
                        This is how career growth is for a person who has not served in the army for a single day. It is he who is responsible for supplying the VRS with everything that is missing. What a shepherd is such a flock.
                      2. -3
                        14 August 2022 15: 25
                        Quote: Unknown
                        They got infected with confidence from the leadership of the VSR, so they always have everything in the top five

                        You write about the five, not me.
                        And yes, I'd rather be infected with confidence than defeatist moods.
                        Nothing is so bad.
                      3. +7
                        14 August 2022 17: 21
                        Quote: Flood
                        And yes, I'd rather be infected with confidence than defeatist moods.
                        Nothing is so bad.

                        This is called adaptability.
                      4. -6
                        14 August 2022 17: 27
                        Quote: Unknown
                        This is called adaptability.

                        This is called the unity of the leadership of the country and its people in the face of an external threat.
                        And if the top has not yet realized the need for such unity, then it is not surprising that you do not understand this either.
                        But this is a historical necessity, which Russia has suffered through through its centuries-old history.
                        So the Soviet people united under the name of Stalin.
                        You can call it accommodating.
                        Yes, Stalin is not in the Kremlin now.
                        But we do not choose the times.
                        As well as their homeland.
                        And I definitely won’t parasitize on sore topics in difficult times.
                  2. +11
                    14 August 2022 12: 07
                    Quote: Flood
                    Bertsy. That's all?

                    thermal imagers, communications, cannon artillery poao, active and passive armored vehicle protection kits, drills, fleet ... this is just what the so-called own has shown. Soviet iron is still fighting. Trillions of the military budget have been dissolved in a few years, no one knows where.
                    1. -6
                      14 August 2022 12: 36
                      Quote: clou
                      thermal imagers, communications, cannon artillery

                      Does the enumeration indicate that this is not in the army?
                      Can I link to a material describing communication problems in NWO?

                      And I beg you to be attentive to the subject of the dispute.
                      There are undoubtedly problems.
                      But they do not cancel the fact of modernization of the army in recent years.

                      In the same way, it would be foolish to deny the fact of the modernization of the Red Army before the Great Patriotic War, basing its opinion on the numerous shortcomings that surfaced during the war.
                      1. +2
                        14 August 2022 14: 13
                        Quote: Flood
                        And I beg you to be attentive to the subject of the dispute.

                        The Swedes and Finns decided that we were not dangerous to them, and on occasion it would be much more convenient to pull a large prey with a flock of comrades.

                        Quote: Flood
                        In the same way, it would be foolish to deny the fact of the modernization of the Red Army before the Great Patriotic War, basing its opinion on the numerous shortcomings that surfaced during the war.

                        It is foolish to deny the modernization of the Red Army, although there were many mistakes and negative results due to personal ambitions. Human nature has not changed since the Paleolithic. There was a clear link between the leadership-kb-factory-troops.
                        Now, even according to open data, it can be seen how the same Uralvagonzavod and other enterprises of the military-industrial complex were in a fever. Applications for bankruptcy, suspension of work, ragged orders from the Ministry of Defense. Everything has been done so that the equipment is not produced rhythmically and constantly. And it was done almost piecemeal. As in the 19th century, artisans worked for a month, then they were dispersed around the gardens until the next order.
                      2. ban
                        0
                        17 August 2022 09: 04
                        Can I link to a material describing communication problems in NWO?


                        Here you go:
                        https://kenigtiger.livejournal
                        and as much as you can
                      3. 0
                        17 August 2022 09: 23
                        Quote: ban
                        Here you go:
                        https://kenigtiger.livejournal

                        this is a link to the magazine, not to the material

                        Quote: ban
                        as much as you can

                        yes, I want more in addition to nothing
                      4. ban
                        0
                        17 August 2022 09: 48
                        And you read. There the latest materials are all about it.
                      5. 0
                        17 August 2022 09: 52
                        Quote: ban
                        And you read. There the latest materials are all about it.

                        no, if you are already linking to something, then provide a link to the article you are referring to.
                        so accepted.
                        "Read" is good advice, but nothing specific.
                    2. -4
                      14 August 2022 12: 59
                      Quote: clou
                      Soviet iron is still fighting.

                      Not a very technologically advanced enemy country-U, therefore, the Soviet, quite suitable, by the way, weapons are suitable for such purposes. How much more does he have to fill the warehouses and storage facilities of NZ. It's time to "refresh"! So they are freed, to the best of their ability, from the "Soviet" legacy of the 70s. And the new goes to the rearmament of the linear units.
                      NATO looms behind the back of the Ukronazis. For them, the sick ones, we save new samples. The fact that the "new-super" is tested in combat and tested in combat conditions, but does not rush to the front end en masse - I hope you will not deny this.
                      And you thought that we would immediately dump everything and reveal it to the Yankees in order to leave the "partners" without SUPERZES!??? bully
                      1. 0
                        21 August 2022 12: 47
                        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                        And you thought that we would immediately dump everything and reveal it to the Yankees in order to leave the "partners" without SUPERZES!???

                        We have such devices, but we will not tell you about them ...
                    3. ban
                      +1
                      17 August 2022 09: 01
                      Why don't you know where?
                      Turned into yachts and villas of "respectable people"
            2. 0
              14 August 2022 08: 58
              Quote: Unknown
              There would be no nuclear weapons, they ate and did not choke. All developments of the Russian military-industrial complex, improvement of Soviet systems

              Get off your fluffy white cloud.
              In 91, the USSR was eaten along with all the warheads.
              They swallowed without choking.

              The presence of nuclear weapons alone does not ensure state security.

              State security is a huge set of measures, a comprehensive system.
              And nuclear weapons are only part of it.
              1. +4
                14 August 2022 15: 19
                Quote: Flood
                Get off your fluffy white cloud.
                In 91, the USSR was eaten along with all the warheads.
                They swallowed without choking.

                CCSR, Gorbachev and his team successfully destroyed, all the more soon there will be an anniversary of the so-called "putsch".
                Quote: Flood
                The presence of nuclear weapons alone does not ensure state security

                Just the most weighty argument, North Korea is a convincing example.
                1. -4
                  14 August 2022 15: 27
                  Quote: Unknown
                  CCSR, Gorbachev and his team successfully destroyed, all the more soon there will be an anniversary of the so-called "putsch".

                  Why didn't nuclear weapons help?
                  After all, this is the security of the state!
                  A sixth of sushi!

                  Quote: Unknown
                  Just the most weighty argument, North Korea is a convincing example.

                  Great example.
                  Very indicative.
                  In the DPRK, you and your agitators would already be busy with socially useful work in places not so remote.
                  And this is also about the security of the state.
                  Protecting him from Gorbachevism, bulking, empty criticism corroding the unity of society.
                  And this is also a mechanism for protecting the state from the very system that I wrote about earlier.

                  Because, as you yourself noticed, nuclear weapons will not help against infection from the inside.
                  1. +4
                    14 August 2022 17: 15
                    Quote: Flood
                    Why didn't nuclear weapons help?
                    After all, this is the security of the state!
                    A sixth of sushi!

                    No need to mix everything together. We are talking about external security, not internal. From an internal threat, no nuclear weapons will help.
                    Quote: Flood
                    In the DPRK, you and your agitators would already be busy with socially useful work in places not so remote.
                    And this is also about the security of the state.
                    Protecting him from Gorbachevism, bulking, empty criticism corroding the unity of society.
                    And this is also a mechanism for protecting the state from the very system that I wrote about earlier.

                    I don’t live, and I lived in the DPRK, I don’t know what can be criticized there and what can’t, we won’t talk about what we don’t know. It is necessary to protect the state, from liberalism, Yeltsin's legacy, spitting on one's past, neglecting the country's national interests, hatred and theft, on an unprecedented scale. Then the state will stand strong.
                    1. -4
                      14 August 2022 17: 23
                      Quote: Unknown
                      No need to mix everything together. We are talking about external security, not internal. From an internal threat, no nuclear weapons will help.

                      That is why the external enemy in recent decades has been working out technologies that operate from within.
                      It's hard not to notice.
                      Essentially the same external threat in a new guise.

                      Quote: Unknown
                      I don’t live, and I lived in the DPRK, I don’t know what can be criticized there and what can’t, we won’t talk about what we don’t know.

                      Well, there is nothing to give unfamiliar examples.
                      State security is a complex issue.
                      And to rely on nuclear weapons alone is a big stupidity.
      2. +6
        14 August 2022 16: 25
        Well, yes, well, yes, they re-armed, it directly shows its own.
    2. +2
      14 August 2022 07: 33
      Quote: Unknown
      What an interesting time we live in. It's only the beginning.

      Yes, this has not happened since the Great Flood.
    3. -8
      14 August 2022 07: 37
      Quote: Unknown
      "The entry of two new countries into NATO will not fundamentally change the situation in the region," Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.


      It’s clear with the Swedes, nostalgia, but the Finns forgot 1940, it doesn’t hurt to remind. A former serf must remember his master.
      1. +3
        14 August 2022 16: 30
        Yes, that's something I'm tormented by vague doubts that the strength is not enough.
    4. -13
      14 August 2022 07: 59
      Are you sure he is your president? I am tormented by vague doubts... Otherwise, why do you have so much hatred for the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and feel for the rest of the high-ranking? You would be up against the wall for discrediting the senior staff in wartime, but we have a special operation (not a war). So live for now.
      1. +4
        14 August 2022 22: 53
        and not to love, to be annoyed by them, not to support - no one has the right? need only love and admire? you won’t be forcibly sweet .. and the president is not God’s anointed one after all .. more than 100 years have passed since tsarist times ..
        1. -3
          15 August 2022 01: 32
          No-no-no... It's your full right. But do you know what's the matter ... All (absolutely everything that we have in the West) politics are scum to the highest degree, and why did you suddenly get the idea that your candidate for power will turn out to be a lesser scum? Trust me, it will happen again if it doesn't get worse.
          1. +1
            15 August 2022 07: 59
            well, it’s stupid to argue with you, Sergey .. in the capital world - an honest politician is especially from the realm of fantasy .. yes, of course there are no guarantees .. the security forces give some kind of guarantee and a deterrent, but when they are in power for a long time, they slowly the politician rakes up for himself and ceases to be afraid of them, I think it is useless to argue with this. this is logical .. perhaps this is only a deterrent - under the electoral system in a capitalist society - in fear of responsibility after leaving office .. therefore - turnover - at least some kind of protection from them ..
            1. -2
              15 August 2022 09: 43
              It's good that we have common ground. :) At the expense of the security forces ... how do you like Pinochet? The security officer who got into politics is the same politician. So it's not a guarantee at all. And so yes - of course it rakes up, but what did you want? A person who finds himself at the pinnacle of power will try by all means to stay there, even Zelensky, who 10 years ago did not think about anything like that, grabbed power with a stranglehold and is ready to go for radioactive contamination of part of the territories just to keep power and spit on the people, his troubles and aspirations - a real politician.
              Fear of responsibility after leaving? Forgive me, but this is not serious - it automatically assumes responsibility for the one who initiates it (after his presidential term). Politicians are certainly not good people, but they cannot be called stupid - this will never happen.
              1. 0
                15 August 2022 10: 25
                and you can’t really argue here .. but in Israel, South Korea, it was the security forces who took the presidents by the gills .. although in 95% of cases, this doesn’t work .. my opinion is that, in terms of naturalness and security / stability for the country, in the 1st place is the monarchy, in the 2nd place is socialism .. under a monarchy, there is no point in stealing and being afraid of the end of the term, and the foolish monarch, the relatives themselves will most likely be removed, and under socialism, the system does not give particularly strong power to someone alone to take, since "tools" he doesn't have enough for that.
                1. +1
                  15 August 2022 17: 07
                  I prefer socialism. :)
    5. +2
      14 August 2022 14: 48
      I just love the commentators, who are convinced, that they would do things better if allowed!
    6. 0
      15 August 2022 14: 27
      In principle, de facto they are already in the alliance, and in the case of warriors it is clear which side they will be on. And no one was going to attack them first. So just de facto becomes de jure
  9. 0
    14 August 2022 07: 32
    Turkey is still balking, but this is just another round of attempts to sit on all the chairs at the same time, which Erdogan has so far succeeded in doing.

    Turkey balks, but it is a member of NATO. Well paid, and again the enemy for 500 years.
    Erdogan will be removed and trampled like a bulldozer.
  10. +6
    14 August 2022 07: 49
    Turkey is still balking, but this is just another round of attempts to sit on all the chairs at the same time, which Erdogan has so far succeeded in doing.
    For a long time, he won’t balk. Buns, he will bargain and ... sign ..
    1. +1
      14 August 2022 19: 44
      Quote: parusnik
      For a long time, he won’t balk. Buns, he will bargain and ... sign ..

      And what is Erdogan doing now to get American fighters? Like a restive horse, it pulls out, but the rider knows how to curb it - with caress or legs.
  11. +13
    14 August 2022 07: 56
    Something after reading the article
    False sense of security: how Finns and Swedes can strengthen NATO

    I have a completely different definition.
    What is wrong with the sense of security? The Finns and Swedes give the alliance their ports to start with for complete repairs and maintenance, the same goes for airfields. In return, the alliance will place aviation there, including anti-submarine aircraft, in such numbers that our submariners will enter the Atlantic through the Pacific Ocean.
    And now let's try to simulate a non-nuclear conflict between the Russian Federation and NATO and estimate the likelihood of Finns and Swedes raking from the Russian Federation and vice versa. Everything will be for the Russian Federation at best, as it is now for the army of Ukraine, I hope no one believes in the chatter about the red lines and about the fact that we have not yet seriously started there. There, unfortunately, everything is very serious and very revealing how the second most powerful army in the world is marking time in front of a demoralized, untrained enemy, armed with shit and sticks, and what else our propaganda ascribes to Ukraine. And in the case of the option of exchanging nuclear strikes, then the Swedes and Finns would be no more lucky than the rest to run around the radioactive wasteland of Europe like a fly on an elephant with cries of “You are my elephant!” Doubtful pleasure. And by the way, the alliance will deploy tactical nuclear weapons on the territory of Sweden and Finland, and with a preventive strike, the response may not arrive at them, then the flight from them to us becomes completely non-existent. The fact that the industry will be bent in general is a big question.
  12. +6
    14 August 2022 09: 44
    False sense of security, who?
  13. 0
    14 August 2022 10: 17
    The men in the first photo are really scary, but in the second ...
  14. +4
    14 August 2022 11: 02
    Quote: "... the Swedes have a powerful defense industry." End of quote.
    It should be clarified here that to a large extent this is a branch of the US military-industrial complex. However, there are details. Sweden often produced unique samples of military equipment and weapons. In addition, Swedish cars have always been the most expensive and most advanced. Many innovations in European and American cars were introduced later, and first appeared in Swedish cars.
    In Sweden, as in a "neutral country", (world capital) placed critically important often unique (for example, the production of bearings) production, which was used during wars to regulate the capabilities of opponents. So, without SKF bearings, the German tank industry would have stopped, and sometimes the supply of bearings suspended the production of strategic bombers in the United States.
    Sweden's accession to NATO marks a new stage in the policy of technological regulation.
    In addition, Finland and Sweden are the "North", where the Russian Federation has a lot of vulnerabilities and interests.
    1. -4
      14 August 2022 13: 15
      Quote: iouris
      Finland and Sweden are the "North", where the Russian Federation has a lot of vulnerabilities and interests.

      This is true. Peter and Murmansk, the Northern Fleet with bases of boats and NK are now under greater threat. Therefore, by joining NATO, the Finns doomed themselves to a preventive nuclear strike from the Western Military District and the Northern Fleet. After all, they do not think that we will allow them to be the first to strike at our military-industrial centers in the North-West and North of our country.
      They lived quietly, dug a tomahawk and started dancing around the NATO fire with hooting and chanting about the torn away territories, forgetting how and from whom they got their statehood.
      Ungrateful bastards! am
      1. +2
        14 August 2022 23: 01
        what preemptive strike? what are we waiting for then? let's right today - the whole world is in ruins, waiting and making a fuss about this .. I see no reason to expect something in this case ..
      2. +2
        15 August 2022 09: 54
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Ungrateful

        Remember: the service rendered costs nothing.
        Your claims should be presented not to any people, but to your (domestic) political class. It was he who "led" to ... to mice.
        Will Ivan Susanin lead him out of these jungles, or has he lost his way?
  15. +1
    14 August 2022 11: 52
    All this is logical from their point of view.
    Ukraine in NATO? no. So I got it, despite guarantees from Russia for getting rid of nuclear weapons.
    The Baltics in NATO? Yes. Despite being the weakest, no one helped me. Only the Old Man is satisfied with shooting and migrants at the borders.

    And NATO allows you to save on your own aircraft, then TRUMP went bankrupt - keep the military-industrial complex at a minimum ....

    And now everything, the golden rain of the military-industrial complex is provided ...
    1. 0
      15 August 2022 10: 01
      Quote: Max1995
      the golden rain of the military-industrial complex is provided ...

      "Golden rain" is an ambiguous concept ...
      Today, nothing can be guaranteed to anyone. The only thing that can be seen with the naked eye: the US has robbed and is robbing the (former) USSR, the US is robbing Europe, the robbed Europe, like a hyena, should pounce on the resources of the (former) USSR to make them free. Otherwise, the decline of Europe is coming (manually).
      China has nothing to do with its goods in Europe. Where should he go? Everything around will be covered.
      The revolutionary era is ahead.
      It's in theory. (And how it will be - we'll see). The main thing to understand is that there is no turning back.
      1. -1
        15 August 2022 19: 39
        As we now know, even Sberbank cannot guarantee something.)))
        And at the expense of the rest - this is cheers-idealism. What kind of "free" is there, when BEFORE the 14th, the USA and EUROPE were forced to raise a number of duties, because. OUR oligarchs sold themselves a number of resources too cheap.

        Conventional Imperialism
    2. 0
      15 August 2022 14: 34
      If the Ukrainian SSR had not promised to be neutral, then it would still be part of the Russian Federation. She was released on the promise of being neutral until the end of the world. Did not work out
      1. 0
        15 August 2022 19: 35
        There are no such contracts on the Internet, but there would be a trump card.

        It is unlikely that the authorities in Belovezhskaya Pushcha were puzzled by this
  16. -4
    14 August 2022 12: 03
    "collective military response"
    No, according to Article 5, each country can decide how much and how it will intervene. Her right, not duty. Think about who will send their soldiers to the frosty Karelia to protect the Finns, if anything? See how they "protect" Ukraine, the same thing will happen. Yes, Ukraine is not a member of NATO, but the strategic importance is much greater than Finland. And how many chipped in for weapons?
  17. 0
    14 August 2022 12: 41
    And what of the territory of Russia, promised by the United States, these countries?
  18. +5
    14 August 2022 12: 48
    Quote: Flood
    Quote: clou
    thermal imagers, communications, cannon artillery

    Does the enumeration indicate that this is not in the army?
    Can you link material describing communication problems in NWO?

    When colonels flaunt on camera with baofengs in unloading, is this not a problem?
  19. +7
    14 August 2022 14: 27
    I don't care about their feelings.
    Without us, they will somehow figure out how they can help NATO. And how NATO will help them.

    And DO NOT care about the fact that the foreign policy of our government has managed - - just like NOBODY AND NEVER to rally both NATO and the Ukronazis. The original result of "brilliant multi-move".

    Especially if you recall from History how the "stupid Bolsheviks" at one time were able to receive huge maritime supplies of aid from the Anglo-Saxons for their fight against the Nazis. And as a result, they seized Eastern Europe and half of Germany.
  20. -1
    14 August 2022 18: 00
    Articles and comments on the topic: “Oh, what will they lose now!” sound ridiculous if the question is not raised: “What are we losing and how should we react?” There are no fools in NATO, and the option of using tactical nuclear weapons by Russia has been calculated there. Most likely, a disarming preventive strike is planned against Russia, which, taking into account the "red lines" in relation to the Armed Forces of Ukraine that have not yet been found, has a chance. Further, those who wish can look into Svobodnaya Pressa, which discusses the plans of Estonia and Finland to block the Gulf of Finland with modern mines, against which the Baltic Fleet has only one minesweeper, and that one in Kaliningrad.
  21. -1
    14 August 2022 23: 19
    In the West, there is no politically mature society and there is no openness of the media - the peoples of Europe believe TV and blogger stuffing more than the people of the USSR in 1974.

    The truth is feared from here and our media are banned. If the truth is behind them, then what are they afraid of?
    The United States will drag their "Haimars" or something else to Sweden and Finland, and it is Sweden and Finland who will receive the destruction of important military and objects, and no offense.
  22. 0
    15 August 2022 00: 32
    In Finland and Estonia with nuclear charges? Yes, what is there, herach right away in the Republic of Karelia and the Leningrad Region. And the enemies will not pass and no answer will arrive. Let's say that this is our internal affair.
    Where do such strategists live? In Moscow? Or have they already moved to the Siberian cities of Marshal Shoigu?
  23. 0
    15 August 2022 02: 02
    For me, as for a person living in St. Petersburg, of course, the entry of the Finns into NATO is rather unpleasant, but thanks also to the presence of Karelia, although of course it is small consolation ...
  24. 0
    15 August 2022 09: 19
    False sense of security: how Finns and Swedes can strengthen NATO
    The question is ... what will change for us now that there are even more NATO members?
    In general, it’s not enough that ... there were more of them anyway, in all aspects / positions.
    But for minke whales, this is a plus, just in many positions!
    And again, we, they, must remember / take into account that attacking a vigorous superpower, even en masse. the case, for them, is catastrophic ... all together in a tar - the tarara will fly away / fly away!
    But minke whales harbor the illusion that there will be fewer troubles and disasters on their side!
    Dangerous illusion.
  25. +1
    15 August 2022 10: 12
    They will put missile defense, place OTRK, F35 with KR (there is a range of up to 1000 km)
  26. +3
    15 August 2022 10: 51
    It’s so funny to read from jingoistic patriots how they bomb nuclear weapons, then Finland, then Sweden, etc., for six months of the NMD, the Kremlin didn’t have enough eggs to even bomb the bridges across the Dnieper, I’m generally silent about other infrastructure of the enemy, a bunch of videos of how columns of Ukrainians calmly drive and reach to the front, now NATO will stand right next to Peter, and according to the GDP they do not pose any threat, you see, they have lost reality or they consider us to be idiots
  27. 0
    15 August 2022 20: 18
    Quote: Shamil88
    they think we are idiots
    Well, that's what we are. Everyone can easily see the proof of this thesis every day. But! most prefer to squint. It's not so scary to go overboard on the board.
  28. 0
    16 August 2022 11: 02
    By the standards of the Russian Armed Forces, the forces of Finland and Sweden seem to be small, but one should not forget their Armed Forces fall into the treasury of the entire NATO, and this is very serious, plus their Navy can create quite big problems in the Baltic Sea.
  29. +1
    16 August 2022 15: 14
    There will be no "death" of the Swedish military-industrial complex under "optimization to NATO standards". After all, their weapons, even without joining NATO, were actively supplied to NATO itself and already meet their standards.
    In addition, there is France in NATO, but somehow the "standards" did not lead to the disappearance of their own military-industrial complex with their features. France still uses part of the weapons and equipment completely of its own production to its own standards.

    But most importantly, the entire article is devoted to explaining that the accession of the Finns and Swedes to NATO will not change anything (only in passing, the closure of the Baltic Sea and the approach of airfields to the borders are mentioned in two sentences). Little things in general...
    Stop, SO WAIT, THESE ARE NOT SMALL THINGS. The complete transfer of control of the Baltic Sea to NATO is a VERY serious strategic initiative in the hands of NATO. This, in theory, can again lead to a situation similar to what happened in the Second World War, when the Baltic fleet will be locked up in the waters of St. Petersburg and will not be able to participate in naval operations. And this despite the fact that at the beginning of the war, in the most difficult year of the war, Sweden still remained neutral. At the same time, the management of the ports and harbors of Finland and Sweden will come under NATO control, and this will MUCH increase the base for the operation of its fleet in the Baltic. And we had only St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad, so they will remain. At the same time, it arises in the event of the transition of the conflict to a global stage - it will become much easier to organize a naval blockade of St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad. The airfields of Sweden and Finland are now enough for NATO aircraft to intercept our strategic aircraft and nuclear submarines going through the Arctic towards the North Atlantic and the Atlantic coast of North America. To be more precise, now we will be able to carry out flights without NATO interceptions only from the central north of Russia. Since aircraft from Scandinavian airfields can now intercept us from the Barents Sea, and aircraft from Alaska could intercept us from the Chukchi and East Siberian Seas. So it turns out that a safe transport corridor for our strategic aviation and nuclear submarines is exactly across the pole from the Kara Sea or the Laptev Sea. This also means that the directions of our attack are more predictable and the US and Canada will be able to concentrate more air defense in their region.

    Also, the entry of Scandinavia into NATO can now cut off the Northern Fleet from the Baltic. And they ate before, the impossibility of moving was basically reduced to moving in war conditions. Now, we may not be able to move the fleet in peacetime either. Now the only 2 fleets that can castle among themselves, and then at risk due to the close passage to Alaska, are the Pacific and Northern fleets. The Black Sea with the Baltic are now both locked in their seas. What does the Black Sea at least can dominate the Black Sea itself, just do not come close to the Bosphorus. But the Baltic, far from St. Petersburg, will no longer be able to just sail away.
  30. 0
    16 August 2022 23: 09

    From the moment these two countries are admitted to NATO, they become legitimate targets for Russia.

    If there was even the slightest fear that we are ready to process these "legitimate purposes". No, and they have no such doubts. Just joining NATO does not mean that they are afraid of us, but that the fear of our use of non-conventional weapons, and even more so the fear of intrusion on their territory, has finally disappeared. Looking at how we have been skidding for the 7th month in the Donbass, what will they be afraid of how we will climb to them through the lamp conditions of the Scandinavian Peninsula? Maybe they will be afraid of our landing, looking at the epic standing near Odessa? Well, or should they be afraid of powerful tank wedges from T62?
    You see, there is one picture - how everything is covered in our country, how it is presented "to society." And there is another picture, as it is covered there, "on the other side", where no one will be almond-yelling and praise the capture of urban-type settlements on both cheeks, hide information about losses and not show padded equipment. And so, there all this will be shown in this vein - they say, the Russian bear is restless again, but it is no longer strong. And if we join NATO, we will beat him if he climbs. Or he won't fit. OR ... or we will take away some territories from him (but these are already respectable citizens of the imperial style of thinking who will think it out on their own, but all the details of this constructor will lie comfortably, which is called "just fold").

    This is one side of the problem. The second side of the problem is that the inapplicability of nuclear weapons has already eaten away the baldness for everyone so much that some elites have seriously begun to believe that it will lie in the grandmother’s chest in any scenario - by analogy with how Adolf Aloizovich’s chimosis lay in his stash, and lasted until the end of World War II. Say, what kind of madman would use it when the infernal hell immediately comes to mind? These funny guys look at our elites and do not see frank madmen - they see people who are used to eating delicious food, expensive clothes, with families, kids and complete sets of hobbit ideas about how to live. And they think "well, these guys will not arrange a nuclear holocaust. They are not suicide bombers ..".
    And this point of view is reinforced by them every time we show indecision or actions that they interpret as indecision. So they test us for strength step by step and calculate at the same time - now the "SVO" is going on, but nevertheless we keep one hand behind our back, and pump oil and gas, and do not touch any targets - although it would seem they are sanctions are already supplying weapons, and how many of our money have been arrested.
    They look at all this and they have no thoughts about some kind of international law or humanity or "rules of the game" - they have one thought "dudes are terribly afraid of krupnyak." Well, since they are afraid of krupnyak, will they use nuclear weapons?

    You see, the author, as long as they have this paradigm of thinking - it doesn’t matter what happens there in "Hour X", and whether anything actually happens. The important thing is HOW they calculate and see this "Hour X". And so far they see him impartially for us, and we indulge them in this, consciously or unconsciously.