Attempts to reform the Allende government and the reasons for their failure

231
Attempts to reform the Allende government and the reasons for their failure

В first article cycle, we got to know Salvador Allende and Augusto Pinochet a little, traced their path to the president of Chile and the army divisional general, respectively. Today we will continue this story and talk about the reforms carried out by the Allende government, the political and economic situation in Chile, as well as the El Tanquetazo rebellion, which became the dress rehearsal for the military coup on September 11, 1973.

Political and economic situation in Chile


The Spaniards came to the territory of the modern state of Chile in the first half of the 718th century. They were mostly white-skinned and fair-haired natives of Asturias and the Basque Country, who proudly called themselves "sons of the Visigoths" and "offspring" of Eurych (son of Theodoric I) and Pelayo (Visigothic king of Asturias, who ruled in 737-XNUMX).
Recall, by the way, that Allende came from a family of Basque nobles, and Pinochet's maternal ancestors came from the Basque Country (and from Brittany, and his great-grandfather's surname was pronounced Pinochet).



Subsequently, these first settlers were diluted with natives of Castile, Germany, France, Italy, Croatia, Ireland and some other European countries. Caucasoids now make up about a third of Chile's population, with Chileans themselves admitting that white and non-white populations have now stabilized.

It is not a matter of racial prejudice, but of differences in the level of well-being and education - among the Caucasoid population, these figures are much higher. The number of whites is quite large, they do not experience a shortage of communication and prefer to marry partners of their own circle. And the widespread use of contraceptives has practically stopped miscegenation.

Look at the photo of the Chilean high school girls sports team:


These are students of one of the elite schools, girls from the upper middle class of Chilean society. Some look like Spaniards or Italians, others look like Germans or Swedes, and one of them on the street could be mistaken for Russian. In general, the appearance is far from the traditional ideas about burning Latin Americans.

And these are students of an ordinary Chilean school:


In Chile, the first settlers met with the warlike tribes of the Mapuche Indians, who are also called Araucans. They did not submit to the Incas and put up serious resistance to the Europeans. One of the commanders of the conquistadors, Pedro de Valdivia, was taken prisoner by them and, in order to "quench his greed", the Araucans poured molten gold into his throat.

It was possible to more or less pacify them only 100 years later - in the middle of the 1870th century, and not by military means, but by means of treaties. Nevertheless, the neighborhood was turbulent, and wars against the Araucans were fought as early as the 1880s and 1920s. Separate clashes continued until the XNUMXs. The descendants of the Mapuche still live apart on their own land. In addition to them, Indians of other tribes live in Chile, the most numerous of them are Aymara and Quechua. Another feature of the Chilean population was the almost complete absence of blacks and mulattoes; they began to appear only at the end of the XNUMXth century as labor migrants and come mainly from Haiti.

In 1810, taking advantage of the favorable situation in Europe (the Napoleonic Wars), the Creoles, who already considered Chile their home country, with the support of mestizos and some local Indians, began a war of independence, which was proclaimed in 1818. The last Spanish troops left Chile in 1826. The new state did not differ in political stability, and until 1970 there were four civil wars, many attempts at a military coup, ten of which were successful. Add to this uneasy relations with neighbors: a peace treaty with Bolivia has not yet been concluded, Peru has territorial claims against Chile, and periodic frictions arise with Argentina.

Since 1886, the Chilean army began to reorganize according to German models (and German officers even headed the General Staff and the headquarters of the armed units). Argentine publisher and journalist Jacobo Timerman even called the Chilean army "the last Prussian army in the world." Numerous German colonies in the center and south of the country also became a source of officer cadres. Since the formation of the state of Chile, its army has not lost a single war, and the military has had the experience of removing legitimately elected presidents from power. The first was Balmaceda in 1891, the second was Arturo Alessandri, who was overthrown by the military in 1924 and returned to his post in 1925.

The army of Chile was a kind of conservative corporation, which, the only one in the country, gave people from poor families at least some opportunity to make a career. Politicians, regardless of their views, were treated with undisguised contempt by the military. Since the 1930s, the army has not interfered in elections or attempted any military coups. After Allende's victory, the commander-in-chief of the Chilean army, René Schneider, and the chief of the general staff, Carlos Prats, came to the conclusion that the army should remain aloof from politics even now. Annoyed by the American Ambassador Corry, in another report, he called them "tin soldiers."

René Schneider, by the way, was mortally wounded by right-wing extremists on October 22, 1970, for refusing to "preempt" Allende's victory by force. But Carlos Prats, who replaced him, managed to keep the army from participating in "political showdowns."


Carlos Prats


Allende after the inauguration and Pinochet accompanying him

Based on reports from Corrie and the leaders of the CIA spy network in that country, the American "Committee of 40" concluded that "the organization of a coup d'état in Chile is currently impossible."

However, at the time of Allende's victory, Chilean society was divided, and the forces of conservatives and supporters of reforms were approximately equal. Moreover, the split was also noted among the left, where the MIR (Movimiento de Izquierda Revolucionaria - "Left Revolutionary Movement") and MAPU (Movimiento de Acción Popular Unitario - "Movement of United People's Action") groups were particularly radical. Many members of these organizations were amnestied by Allende immediately after coming to power.

In response, he received accusations of insufficiently active implementation of reforms and the nickname "Kerensky". In opposition to Allende was the Socialist Party, previously headed by him, which was now led by Carlos Altamirano, who called for a "deepening of the revolution."

In general, the situation in the country was very turbulent and unstable, and already on January 17, 1971, an attempt on Allende was prevented: the police defused bombs at the presidential residence in Valparaiso. And on January 25, millionaire Jorge Ossa was arrested, in whose house they found machine guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition for them.

Reform attempts


It must be said that the socialist Allende, in contrast to the reactionary and counter-revolutionary Yeltsin, who cynically and deliberately deceived his voters, really wanted to improve the situation of ordinary people.


President Salvador Allende

At first it seemed that he was going to succeed. In 1971, Chile's GDP grew by 8,5% (growth in industrial production was 12%, agricultural production - about 6%), unemployment almost halved. In the crisis year of 1972, GDP increased by 5%, and the volume of construction work - by 3,5 times.

However, then problems began, one of the main reasons for which were the sanctions imposed by the United States: President Nixon ordered that everything possible be done so that “the Chilean economy screamed” (in another translation, “squealed”). US banks refused to issue loans to the Allende government, foreign companies curtailed their activities in this country, local entrepreneurs withdrew money abroad, and the budget deficit was growing rapidly. An additional blow to the Chilean economy was caused by the fall in world prices for copper in 1972, caused by the fact that the Americans dumped strategic reserves of this metal, as well as molybdenum, on the world market at dumping prices.

Under these conditions, it was necessary to turn on the economy mode and “tighten the belts”. However, Allende did not want to deceive his voters, and therefore the printing press was turned on. Thus, the top leaders of the United States, who decided to “punish” the Chileans who made the “wrong” choice, are also responsible for the difficult economic situation in which this country finds itself, by starving them to death.

The problem was also that, as we remember, Allende did not have popular support: the society was split into two approximately equal parts. And some of his former allies went over to the opposition to the president. Under such conditions, the reforms of the new government were sharply criticized both from the right and from the left.

Of all Allende's undertakings, the most profound and large-scale reforms were in the agricultural sector. So far, it has been possible to expropriate about 15% of the possessions of large landowners. Allende was able to organize the seizure of another 25% from them - 3,5 million hectares of land were distributed to the peasants. However, they were dissatisfied even with such a high rate, and therefore spontaneous land seizures began in the regions.
On the other hand, large cattle ranches began to drive herds to Argentina, or even send cows to slaughterhouses, and this began even before the inauguration of the socialist president.

In addition, even before Allende's official accession to the presidency, many wealthy Chileans began to close their deposits and convert their savings into dollars, the exchange rate on the black market almost doubled.

But the Catholic Church of Chile officially declared its rejection of capitalism and refused all the securities it had, as well as profitable land and property that belonged to it.

During the first year of Allende's rule, more than 100 large enterprises and 80% of banks were nationalized. It is curious that at that time in Chile, for the first time in the world, an attempt was made to create a computerized economic management system (Cibersyn): enterprises were connected with the presidential palace using telexes. This experiment was curtailed after the fall of the Allende government - in September 1973.

Iron mines, coal mines, saltpeter mines, and hydroelectric power stations were nationalized. After the nationalization of the paper industry, Allende was accused of trying to establish a monopoly on printed publications.

American investors and banks, in whose hands were the shares of many copper-smelting enterprises, refused to accept compensation for the confiscated assets and demanded that the authorities of their country impose more and more economic sanctions against Chile and even direct military intervention.

Meanwhile, the Allende government, fulfilling its election promises, pursued a socially oriented policy, making education and health care more accessible, as well as deciding to provide free milk for children. Wages were significantly increased, new payments and benefits to the poor were established, but in the face of falling production, this led to a shortage of goods and an increase in prices. In 1970, inflation in Chile was 36,1%, in 1971 - 22%, in 1972 - 260,5%, in 1973 - 605,1%. And wage growth in the public sector amounted to 35%, in the private sector - 50%. Attempts to set prices administratively led to the emergence of a black market.


Queue to the store

The situation in the country was heating up, now not only representatives of the bourgeoisie were dissatisfied, but also workers, doctors of state hospitals, and teachers. In Chile, strikes, strikes, "marches of housewives" ("marches of empty pots") began. In subsequent years, it turned out that the participants in such marches were not representatives of the urban poor, but by no means starving middle-class ladies, and they were organized by the ultra-right movement "Motherland and Freedom" - in addition to the numerous terrorist attacks that were staged by activists of this organization.

In October 1972, Chile was rocked by the so-called "national strike" organized by the Truck Owners Confederation. Transport workers were supported by trade unions of small traders, lawyers, and many peasant farms. The Soviet Union could not provide significant assistance, since it was a time of "detente of international tension", it was going to sign an agreement on mutual recognition of the GDR and the FRG, lucrative contracts were concluded with Western countries. The Soviet leaders did not want to start a new round of confrontation with the United States over a country located on the other side of the globe.


Henry Kissinger, Richard Nixon and Leonid Brezhnev at a reception in the Kremlin in honor of the signing of the SALT-1 treaty and the treaty on limiting missile defense systems. Photograph 1972

Yes, and the currency was not superfluous: of the 300 million dollars requested by Allende, only 80 million were allocated. As a result, in November 1972, the Chilean government declared a partial default, which accelerated the "capital flight". In a message to Congress in May 1973, Allende was forced to admit that "the policy of redistribution of income was carried out in isolation from the real possibilities of the economy." But at the same time, he still believed that he “made a few good moves”, only “there are no more pawns”.

In a situation of general discontent, he was now forced to rely on the radically inclined circles of the population, making calls for a revolutionary struggle within the country and against international imperialism. In turn, the fight against the government and its supporters was started by the far-right military-political organization "Motherland and Freedom" ("Patria and Libertad"), created in 1971 by Pablo Rodriguez, who later became Pinochet's legal adviser, and then - a lawyer for the dictator and his families. Sometimes up to 30 terrorist attacks were committed per day, causing great economic damage.

It is estimated that by August 1973, more than 200 bridges alone had been destroyed. In addition to them, railway tracks, oil pipelines, electrical substations and power lines were blown up. The cost of the destroyed facilities amounted to 32% of Chile's annual budget. Due to the impossibility of bringing food in the first half of August (winter in Chile) 1972, 10 thousand sheep and 500 thousand heads of cattle died. Constant interruptions in the supply of electricity during the hot season led to the shutdown of refrigeration units and the spoilage of a large amount of food.

And leftist radical groups carried out "expropriations" in shops and banks.
In the parliamentary elections of 1973, the pro-government "People's Unity" received only 44% of the vote. The political opponents of Allende turned out to be, though insignificant, but the majority. The voting results correctly reflected the balance of power in Chile: society was divided into two large camps, neither side of this confrontation wanted to make concessions and seek a compromise.

On August 22, 1973, the Chamber of Deputies, by a majority vote (81 to 47), declared the illegality of the government's actions and accused Allende

“in authoritarian aspirations and the desire to destroy the role of the legislature; disregarding court decisions and patronizing criminals associated with the ruling party; in attacks on freedom of speech, arrests, beatings and torture of opposition journalists”.

Thus, the legitimacy of Allende as president was called into question.

Rebellion of El Tanquetazo


In June 1973, for the first time in many decades, the Chilean military tried to intervene in the political life of the country. The rebels were led by Lieutenant Colonel Roberto Super, commander of the 2nd Tank Regiment stationed in the capital.


Lieutenant Colonel Roberto Super

This officer was known for his far-right views, and his brothers were activists in the infamous Motherland and Freedom association. The anti-government speech of the lieutenant colonel was provoked by rumors of an imminent resignation. Many officers of the regiment joined the conspiracy, among them was Edwin Dimter Bianchi, who would soon take part in the assassination of Victor Jara at the Nacional de Chile stadium.

On the morning of 29 June 16 tanks (one of which even refueled at a civilian gas station along the way) surrounded the presidential palace of La Moneda, which then did not include Allende. Their crews entered into a firefight with the guards. Among the 5 dead then in the palace was the Argentine cameraman Leonardo Henriksen, who managed to photograph the officer who shot him, Hector Bustamante Gomez. Soon the rebels captured part of the palace and the building of the Ministry of Defense. Pablo Rodriguez, the leader of Motherland and Freedom, declared support for the rebellion.

Allende made a radio address to the workers of Santiago, urging them to prepare for street fighting. Finally, the regiments loyal to the government also approached. One of them was headed by the commander-in-chief Carlos Prats, the second - Augusto Pinochet. Prats personally approached each tank, ordering the crews to leave the vehicles. The crew of only one tank did not obey - it was disarmed by soldiers of government troops. Pablo Rodriguez took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, ​​and then left for Quito, from where he returned after the fall of Allende - in September. At the same time, all the arrested rebels were released.

After the suppression of this rebellion, Allende ordered the disarmament of non-governmental formations, including "workers' cordons" and detachments of left-wing organizations allied to him. As a result, during the rebellion, his supporters were unable to resist the army units.

General Prats, appointed Minister of Defense on August 9, 1973, having been obstructed by the generals, dissatisfied with his participation in the suppression of the rebellion, resigned on August 23, 1973. In his place, he recommended Augusto Pinochet.


Pinochet and Allende in August 1973

After a military coup organized by a former subordinate, Prats emigrated to Argentina, where on September 24, 1974, he and his wife died as a result of a terrorist attack organized by members of the Chilean intelligence.

In the next article, we will talk about the military coup on September 11, 1973.
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  1. +7
    13 August 2022 06: 44
    Good morning everyone and have a nice day! smile

    Since 1886, the Chilean army began to reorganize according to German models (and German officers even headed the General Staff and the headquarters of the armed units). Argentine publisher and journalist Jacobo Timerman even called the Chilean army "the last Prussian army in the world."


    This is noticeable even now.




    Yes, and Mauser rifles.
    1. +6
      13 August 2022 07: 09
      I would not be so categorical.

      Chilean army infantryman in field uniform, 1972.
      Regulation No. 25/1972 of April 6437, 6 established a new field uniform for the Chilean army and a complete set of equipment for it. "(c)
      1. +5
        13 August 2022 07: 40
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Chilean army infantryman in field uniform, 1972.

        Quote: Sea Cat
        Yes, and Mauser rifles.

        All welcome! hi
        Both are right:
        German traditions (the parade is a tribute to traditions), and for combat operations the equipment of a European NATO soldier, possibly a German, by the way (the Americans were already unloading).
        The question is, what kind of caliber 7.62 do you have in your hands? Belgian or German?
        1. +3
          13 August 2022 07: 53
          The question is, what kind of caliber 7.62 do you have in your hands? Belgian or German?
          Hi Albert!
          I think the one under whose auspices the study of the Chilean uniform took place cannot be asked.
          1. +1
            13 August 2022 12: 10
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Hi Albert!

            Hello Anton! hi
            So I'm talking about Vintar
            1. +2
              13 August 2022 12: 31
              Not a classic FAL for sure, there is no carrying handle on top.
              1. 0
                13 August 2022 12: 34
                Anyway, Belgium
                1. +1
                  13 August 2022 12: 37
                  Probably, I understand much better in "holodnyak".
                  1. 0
                    13 August 2022 12: 44
                    I don’t rummage in melee weapons at all, although I used to collect bayonet-knives))
        2. +6
          13 August 2022 15: 12
          "Neither Belgian nor German. Swiss. Sturmgewehr 57. Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft. Specifically, Chile used the SG 510-4 variant chambered for NATO 7,62 × 51 mm. True, the artist did not really tense up, he was leaning towards the M16." ©
          1. 0
            13 August 2022 20: 12
            Oh you, a weapon for the rich))
            1. +2
              13 August 2022 20: 51
              And who said that Chile is a poor country?
              1. -5
                13 August 2022 23: 41
                It is not very poor, and after the reign of the terrible bloody dictator Pinochet, it is also the most stable in LA, while being democratic.
                1. +5
                  14 August 2022 09: 06
                  And why is he good? The sanctions were lifted, and everything returned to normal, but not for everyone.
      2. +6
        13 August 2022 07: 52
        And don't be. smile

        Albert has already answered you. Of course, I could pump up different forms, up to the marine and fire, but I decided to limit myself to the front door. As a result, I was accused of being peremptory. Well, it happens... wink
        1. +4
          13 August 2022 07: 58
          Something you are angry today, uncle ... Did I somehow upset you?
          1. +3
            13 August 2022 08: 03
            And then! I will reproach the ignorance of the uniform of the invincible Chilean army! fellow drinks
            1. +3
              13 August 2022 08: 11
              https://forma-odezhda.com/encyclopedia/uniforma-armii-chili-1926-1984-godov/
              Will this redeem me? Pay attention to the name of the author of the original source!
              1. +5
                13 August 2022 08: 29
                He turned, he still has works on engineering and fortification.
                But Bolivia did not have its own Pinochet, and he will not write about their form, although a common idea with Chile can be traced.

                1. +7
                  13 August 2022 10: 32
                  But in Bolivia there was no Pinochet
                  Bolivia, the country of the Pinochets, military coups have not stopped there since 1964. Now, it's calmed down a bit. And there has never been stability since independence in 1825. There are 37 official state languages ​​in the country.
                  1. +5
                    13 August 2022 10: 43
                    Alexey, you are wrong, Pinochet not only made himself, having risen from the bottom to the very top, but he still has many printed works on military affairs, and they study it not only at the Chilean academy.
                    But Allende, unlike him, was "born in a shirt" and before him was a wide road through prestigious colleges and universities to the elite of this country.
                    And banana left-wing colonels in any country Lat. America really was full, you can’t take that away from them - hot people.
                    1. +4
                      13 August 2022 10: 55
                      Yes, yes, Pinochets, Mussolini, Hitlers, Salazars, Pyatses, Pilsudskis, Samoses, Stressners, and other nice people. Allende and other fiends. You put Navalny on a par with Allende. laughing
                      1. +4
                        13 August 2022 11: 01
                        I did not understand the pathos, I was talking about the real life of a real person. "And you dragged some kind of tail" (c)
                      2. +7
                        13 August 2022 11: 26
                        But there is no pathos, the indicated persons were for "order", they even wrote books. And with great pleasure, they carried out reprisals against the "left-wingers". And among the common people in front of them, the faces of the sausage burst. During the years of Pinochet's rule, 1 million people left the country. The vast majority of these were qualified specialists: the peasants simply could not leave, there was no money. And the "foster", Navalny, for some reason in Russia is considered a "Left Ryusiner". On the territory of the German colony Dignidad (founded by the Nazis) - during the reign of Augusto Pinochet, patriots - "Left Ryusiners" were tortured. Detained by the political police DINA.
                      3. +5
                        13 August 2022 11: 42
                        patriots - "Left Rusiners" were tortured. Detained by the political police DINA.

                        As far as I remember, they did the same at the stadium in the center of the capital. I read the memoirs of one nun, she was also slightly "treated" with current, she remained alive and not a cripple.
                      4. +4
                        13 August 2022 12: 00
                        A good rock opera Stadium, by A. Gradsky, to the verses of M. Pushkina, is dedicated to these events.
                      5. +1
                        13 August 2022 17: 41
                        Quote: parusnik
                        orosha rock-opera Stadium, by A. Gradsky, to the verses of M. Pushkina, is dedicated to these events.

                        I remember watching a movie about Chile and a concentration camp in the desert as a child.
                      6. 0
                        14 August 2022 20: 46
                        Yes. Unfortunately...
                      7. -5
                        13 August 2022 12: 16
                        Quote: parusnik
                        Mussolini, Hitlers, Salazars, Pyats, Pilsudskis, Samosas, Stressers

                        Pinochet to them and? Allende destroyed the country, Pinochet stopped him, then returned to his house a democratic form of government.
                      8. +12
                        13 August 2022 13: 02
                        But who can argue, Pinochet is just an excellent person, a fighter for democracy, and as Pinochet still has, the center has not been erected. laughing Pinochet resigned as president, but remained commander-in-chief of the ground forces and retained his influence in the political life of the country. Pinochet left, from his posts, but did not go anywhere. Only in 2004, the Supreme Court of Chile deprived Pinochet of immunity from prosecution. He was accused of torture, kidnappings, murders, drug trafficking, non-payment of taxes, illegal arms trade, simply smuggling. And why are the above worse than Pinochet? If you think that Pinochet didn’t stand next to them? smile
                      9. -2
                        13 August 2022 13: 09
                        But they deprived the "tyrant" of immunity))
                      10. +8
                        13 August 2022 14: 21
                        Oh, yes, a year before his death, and it was not a tyrant laughing kind-hearted man. How do you miss him. laughing
                      11. -6
                        13 August 2022 20: 01
                        That is, they knew exactly when he would die. lol
                        Quote: parusnik
                        kindest soul man. How do you miss him

                        Yes, I don’t care about him, but, from my point of view, he is definitely better than any Allende-Chavez, with all the shortcomings
                      12. +6
                        13 August 2022 20: 33
                        laughing Sure, not a problem laughing Pinochet and others with him, about whom he wrote above, for you, normal guys laughingNot so bad. laughing laughing laughing Good luck to you ... Your case with Pinochet, right, you will win .. Or rather, you have already won .. laughing
                      13. -3
                        13 August 2022 23: 38
                        As for others like them, you got excited, in my opinion)).
                      14. +3
                        14 August 2022 06: 53
                        As for others like them, you got excited, in my opinion)). laughing laughing laughing
                      15. +5
                        14 August 2022 01: 19
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        he is definitely better than any Allende-Chavez, with all the shortcomings

                        The master of torture cases under Pinochet was the son of Krasnov, a German puppet on the Don since 1918. So your pet has some kind of spiritual connection with Nazism. Unlike Pinochet, this Krasnov was convicted by a Chilean court.
                      16. -7
                        14 August 2022 02: 19
                        He is not my favorite, and if you dig so deep, let's remember the founder of the Palestinian national liberation movement, the creator of the Khanjar SS division and Hitler's personal friend, let's remember other Middle Eastern Nazis who are completely legal in Syria, for example, let's remember who helped them followers and allies in the confrontation with the West and the Jews.
                        Question: does this indicate some kind of spiritual connection or state interests in a certain period of time?
                      17. +8
                        14 August 2022 04: 46
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        He's not my favorite, but if you dig so deep

                        However, you preferred Pinochet to Chavez and Allende who were not noticed in the odious reprisals against their opponents.
                      18. -6
                        14 August 2022 05: 44
                        So how many people died because of them?
                      19. +5
                        14 August 2022 06: 48
                        Jews in the Middle East are so dirty that I wonder why not all Arabs are Nazis am
                      20. -4
                        14 August 2022 14: 32
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Jews in the Middle East are so dirty that I wonder why not all Arabs are Nazis am

                        What did they say? Managed, unlike neighbors, without building a highly developed country? lol
                        Well yes, just listen
                      21. +3
                        14 August 2022 16: 57
                        Yes, the Americans created greenhouse conditions for Tel Aviv and well done for taking advantage of them, and about shitting, they provoked (like a clown on the outskirts) all Middle Eastern wars from the second half of the twentieth century to the present day
                      22. -4
                        14 August 2022 17: 06
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        Yes, the Americans created greenhouse conditions for Tel Aviv

                        lol
                        The Americans sided with Israel after 1967 (all their embargoes were lifted), gave access to technology in 1970 - after the direct participation of the Soviet group of troops in the War of Attrition from the Egyptian side - Thanks to Dear Leonid Ilyich)).
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        well done guys for using them

                        For me, the French took advantage more - nuclear weapons, rocket and aircraft industries. This gave a serious impetus to the development of the scientific and technical base of the country as a whole.
                        Quote: Siberian54
                        provoked (like a clown on the outskirts) all Middle Eastern wars from the second half of the twentieth century to the present day

                        Nonsense. Iranian-Iraqi, Yemeni, etc. - local internecine wars, but the Arab-Israeli ones are the only inter-Arab consensus Yes
                      23. +2
                        14 August 2022 22: 18
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        For me, the French took advantage of more - nuclear weapons

                        No, it's the French who took advantage of the Israeli window into the states - unlimited and duty-free trade
                      24. -3
                        14 August 2022 22: 27
                        No way laughing
                        The French imposed an arms embargo on Israel in early June 1967, a couple of days before the start of the Six Day War. The states began to give Israel nishtyaks and buns after 1970. Therefore, what the French could use here is unclear.
                      25. +2
                        14 August 2022 22: 42
                        Who is talking about what and lousy about the bath. 10% of the added value in Israel and the product goes to the US market without a limit and trade duty, that is, about 6% cheaper than its competitors.
                      26. -2
                        14 August 2022 23: 17
                        Where does the 10% figure come from? ))
                        And the logistical shoulder?
                        And where exactly in the States - the territory is not small?
                        And if the competitor is an American or Canadian manufacturer, also duty-free and unlimited? ))
                        And most importantly, the EU is Israel's main trading partner. laughing hi
                      27. +2
                        15 August 2022 12: 36
                        Naturally, the EU is the main partner who works through you in the US market and Krasnodar, do not turn on the Jewish fool., Israel Preferred States Trading Partner
                      28. 0
                        15 August 2022 18: 19
                        laughing
                        Why does the EU work on the American market through Israel lol
                        What does privileged mean? Free trade? Access to technology?
                      29. +6
                        14 August 2022 09: 16
                        It was you who reminded me that Armenians are better than Georgians
                        - The better?
                        - Than the Georgians.
                        Would you like to be an opponent of Pinochet?
                      30. -4
                        14 August 2022 14: 33
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        Would you like to be an opponent of Pinochet?

                        No
                        I wish I didn't like being a Hamas/Hezbollah militant Yes
                      31. +2
                        14 August 2022 14: 51
                        Probably that those that others have some reasons for such behavior have not thought about it? Something that is not currently being fought.
                      32. -1
                        14 August 2022 14: 54
                        Certainly there is laughing
                      33. 0
                        14 August 2022 15: 06
                        So they don't fight the reasons. Even Molotov, or Stalin said about the idea of ​​two states, Jewish and Palestinian, that it would be an eternal massacre. They turned out to be right.
                      34. -1
                        14 August 2022 15: 17
                        Not quite so - the division of Palestine, as a result of which the state of Israel will be created, will be the eternal cause of tension in the region, which will undermine British influence in Egypt, Turkey, Iraq.
                        In fact, the only Arab consensus for hate came out laughing
                      35. +2
                        14 August 2022 15: 34
                        Honestly, Stalin said that the Arabs, forgive the children, are ducks and do not know what they want.
                      36. 0
                        14 August 2022 15: 40
                        Correctly said, only all Arabs are very different. There are also normal ones. They vary greatly by country. Iraqi and Egyptian e, Algerian and Moroccan, even from Judea and Gaza. Everything is complicated there, in short laughing
                      37. +10
                        13 August 2022 17: 45
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Pinochet stopped him, then returned his house to a democratic form of government.

                        Somehow, at the last referendum, the people were not very supportive of him. Did Allende destroy the country? It was destroyed by the United States and terrorist organizations, which, attention, carried out 30 terrorist attacks a day!
                      38. -8
                        13 August 2022 20: 13
                        And why did he run into regular privatization of the United States? Why split the people?
                      39. +1
                        14 August 2022 09: 14
                        I would like to ask you to understand a little. Hitler's party is a party of political parsley. Their newspaper had a circulation of 13 copies. Not a single person voted for Mussolini in his native village in the 1919 elections until capital was poured into both of them. Hindenburg, for the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, poured 200 thousand marks, as it is said in Romm's documentary film Ordinary Fascism.
                        Pinochet clearly had contacts with interesting people, but he made his own career.
                      40. 0
                        14 August 2022 12: 03
                        so it is said in Romm's documentary film Ordinary fascism.

                        A film, even a "documentary", is more than dubious evidence.
                      41. +3
                        14 August 2022 13: 46
                        And the rest of the facts just dumped in the scrap?
                      42. 0
                        14 August 2022 14: 29
                        No need to dump, you just need to "separate the wheat from the chaff" (c) smile
                      43. +1
                        14 August 2022 14: 35
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        Pinochet had obviously contacts with interesting people,

                        Certainly
                      44. 0
                        17 October 2022 16: 07
                        Navalny would be even more bloodthirsty ....
                    2. +1
                      14 August 2022 09: 09
                      Allende is not a communist. Now, if, although they say history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood, he did about the same thing that the much poorer Cuba did, and the result would be different. In LA, leftist ideas are still popular, and there was someone to help.
                      1. -2
                        14 August 2022 14: 37
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        Allende is not a communist. Now, if, although they say history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood, he did about the same thing that much poorer Cuba did

                        That population of Chile, instead of living in the most stable and highly developed country in Latin America, would beg like Cubans Yes
                      2. +6
                        14 August 2022 15: 09
                        Cuba has two problems, they have essentially nothing but tobacco and sugar, and second, they have not bothered to create an industry. Did they live better in Cuba under the patronage of the United States? It's a total brothel. A Cuban worker harvesting cane earned a loaf of bread. So when was there poverty?
                      3. -2
                        14 August 2022 15: 13
                        Well, now what? There is no open prostitution, but a Cuban woman will always figure out for a tourist what she needs, and urgently, 100-150 bucks after spending the night with him, and the salaries of workers - tears.
                        They could live well only on tobacco and tourism, but they went "our own way"
                      4. +5
                        14 August 2022 15: 31
                        Well, they definitely live no worse than the Mexicans, and if it were not for the collapse of the USSR, they would live even better. Did your ancestors like living beyond the Pale of Settlement? Let me start telling you how wonderful it was, or you tell me that serfdom, but that's okay.
                      5. -3
                        14 August 2022 15: 37
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        Well, they definitely live no worse than the Mexicans.

                        Much worse
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        if not for the collapse of the USSR, life would be even better.

                        At the expense of the USSR - of course
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        Did your ancestors like living beyond the Pale of Settlement?

                        laughing
                        Do not know
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        Let me start telling you how wonderful it was, or you tell me that serfdom, but that's okay.

                        Let's))
                      6. +3
                        14 August 2022 15: 56
                        Let's read what Denikin writes about the Jews of Poland, he served there
                        http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/denikin_ai/index.html
                      7. -1
                        14 August 2022 16: 59
                        Thank you, I appreciate hi
                      8. 0
                        15 August 2022 09: 36
                        It was necessary to tighten the nuts, until they stop. And if the thread breaks, then by welding, as the Bolsheviks did. Socialists, they are socialists. Both yours and ours.
                        In other matters, Chile is not an Republic of Ingushetia, with rather weak resources. Classical socialism could not work out there, but the USSR could not feed everyone and everything.
                      9. -1
                        15 August 2022 09: 56
                        Quote: Essex62
                        It was necessary to tighten the nuts, until they stop. And if the thread breaks, then by welding, as the Bolsheviks did. Socialists, they are socialists. Both yours and ours.
                        In other matters, Chile is not an Republic of Ingushetia, with rather weak resources. Classical socialism could not work out there, but the USSR could not feed everyone and everything.

                        Well, in Nicaragua, socialist-communists are still popular. The same Ortega. According to Krasnodar, should everyone listen to the United States?
                      10. 0
                        16 August 2022 03: 27
                        Of course I understand. This is the main obstacle to socialism in general. Aggressive substance, constantly spreading over the planet, strangles progress.
                      11. -1
                        15 August 2022 10: 38
                        Classical socialism - from each according to his ability, to each according to his work. ))
                        Theoretically, it could turn out, but very step by step and carefully))
                      12. 0
                        16 August 2022 03: 20
                        When a society is in permanent GV, how can it be done carefully and step by step? Only with meat and hard. Uprooting foreign elements or changing their sign to positive. Otherwise, it will shake and crumble. The backbone has no incentive in such a system, which means it must be eliminated.
                      13. -2
                        16 August 2022 03: 33
                        Quote: Essex62
                        When a society is in permanent GV

                        Are you talking about now, or what? Funny hummock of view wink

                        Quote: Essex62
                        Only with meat and hard. Uprooting foreign elements or changing their sign to positive

                        The funniest thing is that there are enough "grubbers" like you, as a rule, only to "accusative listen" in case of something. Everything else is chatter. About the projectile in the database - no need, don't disgrace yourself ...

                        There is no need for a new Civil War in the Russian Federation and there will not be. I said (s).

                        And not only, by the way, I laughing
                      14. 0
                        16 August 2022 09: 05
                        It's actually about Chile. Troll. Don't come to me. I told you already.
                      15. 0
                        16 August 2022 09: 09
                        Quote: Essex62
                        It's actually about Chile.

                        Weird. Usually you thresh the same thing about the Russian Federation.

                        Quote: Essex62
                        Troll

                        A troll is one who has memorized a couple of mantras, and constantly repeats them. Take a look in the mirror and see what happens?

                        And it's spelled with two "l".

                        Quote: Essex62
                        Don't come to me

                        It's my business who to kick, who to stroke...

                        Quote: Essex62
                        I already told you

                        Well, talk.
                      16. 0
                        16 August 2022 09: 17
                        ...... Other than that, I don't care.
                      17. -1
                        16 August 2022 04: 27
                        Therefore, everything must be done to prevent permanent GW - following the example of Bismarck hi
                      18. 0
                        16 August 2022 09: 07
                        The right uncle was reasonable. But he didn't, in fact. He left and shook, but how.
                      19. -1
                        16 August 2022 09: 20
                        Because the Germans rushed to catch up with other European powers, and they wanted to do this in the field of owning colonies))
                      20. 0
                        16 August 2022 11: 25
                        Well Duc, inevitability. Isolationism, being in the center of Europe, soaking and steaming in its own juice? No way it worked. And it won't work today. Actually, Aloizych implemented the first European Union in practice. He united everyone, conquered.
                      21. 0
                        16 August 2022 11: 38
                        Second. Napoleon seemed to be trying too. But Russia did not comply with the framework of the EU back in 1812 laughing
                      22. 0
                        17 August 2022 08: 24
                        It seems that, at Bounapartia, the scale is somehow more modest. It was not possible to fasten the entire geyropa to the French wagon, to full controllability. And Russia itself is always "with a mustache." No one tells her.
                      23. 0
                        17 October 2022 16: 08
                        Cuba has been a natural and historical brothel since the 16th century....
                2. +1
                  13 August 2022 12: 14
                  Israeli Galil against the background of a red and white uniform look ... not quite harmonious laughing
                3. +5
                  13 August 2022 12: 30
                  But in Bolivia there was no Pinochet,

                  They were not modest there, limiting themselves to "Napoleons" !!!
                  1. +2
                    13 August 2022 20: 19
                    I remember only Napoleon Duarte, the head of the Salvadoran junta, the rest are not remembered at all.
                    1. +1
                      14 August 2022 05: 13
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      I remember only Napoleon Duarte, the head of the Salvadoran junta, the rest are not remembered at all.

                      I'm talking about various personalities who imagined themselves to be the Napoleons of South America! However, from bringing down the Bolivian territorial losses, sorrows and losses.
  2. +12
    13 August 2022 07: 35
    The new state did not differ in political stability
    The Russian clipper ship "Izumrud" (if I'm not mistaken) while sailing to the Pacific Ocean in the 70s of the XIX century, entered Valparaiso and saluted the ships of the Chilean fleet standing in the roadstead. There was no answer. officers and explained that elections were taking place in the country and the government ordered the fleet to be disarmed in order to avoid excesses.
  3. +5
    13 August 2022 07: 39
    A beautiful and "atmospheric" photo of the Chilean school team - how much joy, adrenaline and emotions go off scale. Everyone is showing three fingers - apparently, the third title has been won (they are not so happy for third place), and, judging by the level of emotions, apparently, in a very dramatic match. I wonder what kind of sport? Volleyball? The male coach on the right is probably a mestizo, the woman on the left (also a coach? Or a "classy lady"?) is the direct opposite, apparently, her ancestors are immigrants from Northern Europe. And the girls - indeed, very different types of appearance. Direct team of Europe.
  4. +5
    13 August 2022 07: 41
    The split in Chilean society, judging by the results of the elections, was just huge. In such conditions, it is very dangerous to start serious and deep reforms, which was confirmed later.
    1. 0
      13 August 2022 11: 08
      "deep reforms are very dangerous" I think that in countries such as Chile, Venezuela, deep reforms are deadly:
      See for yourself: the Araucan Indians, for example, live in the selva, and the interests and way of life of the inhabitants of the selva differ sharply from the interests of Santiago. For example, in Santiago and Valparaiso they will understand Allende, and in the selva some half-breed with the intellect of a gorilla will enjoy great confidence.
  5. +3
    13 August 2022 07: 42
    In short, ill-conceived nationalization, which led to conflict with highly developed countries, the withdrawal of capital from Chile and discord in society
    1. +8
      13 August 2022 08: 46
      This is what happens when you build socialism without the dictatorship of the proletariat, relying on the same bourgeoisie. Outcome - fascism
      1. -4
        13 August 2022 09: 04
        The Soviet project ended with the appearance of the nouveaux riches from former party functionaries, black marketeers, etc. - just capitalism with a social sphere inferior to the countries of the West, and this despite the dictatorship of the proletariat, which was replaced by the NEP, and then the time bomb of collectivization
        1. +5
          13 August 2022 09: 11
          Everything was mixed into porridge and in the porridge itself. The dictatorship was abolished in the USSR in 1961. There was a period of transition to capitalism.
          1. -5
            13 August 2022 09: 14
            But what difference does it make what was canceled there - collectivization turned out to be a time bomb against the Soviet economy, and that's all collapsed with the global rise in prices for agricultural products and the fall in oil prices.
            1. +7
              13 August 2022 09: 20
              Connoisseur. The union depended on raw materials for 2% of the budget.
              1. -3
                13 August 2022 09: 46
                Quote: Novosibirsk
                Connoisseur.

                lol
                Yes, but when agriculture was killed by collectivization, wheat had to be taken abroad, it could only be bought for dollars, and oil and gas brought most of them. Yes
                So, leave the Soviet percentages of dependence to the new Russian communists in suits from Brioni - they may be related to reality, but the question is what is considered dependence on raw materials, when you can only buy food with foreign currency.
                1. +6
                  13 August 2022 09: 50
                  Most of the revenue came from oil and gas. Why lie so hard? They tell him, and he talks about his own. Yes, for God's sake. With this snowstorm in Besogon-TV to Mikhalkov. He loves these mantras about grain.
                  1. -4
                    13 August 2022 10: 21
                    Quote: Novosibirsk
                    Most of the revenue comes from oil and gas

                    So what brought into the Soviet treasury the currency for which grain was bought? Soviet tape recorders, microcircuits, cars, consumer electronics?
                    Quote: Novosibirsk
                    With this snowstorm in Besogon-TV to Mikhalkov. He loves these mantras about grain.

                    I can't stand Besogon and Mikhalkov, but what's wrong with the grain? Tell the Communist Party of the Russian Federation a fairy tale that fodder grain was purchased, because Was the livestock population awesome under the Union, in contrast to modern, self-sufficient and grain-trading Russia? laughing
                    So this is not true
                    1. +8
                      13 August 2022 14: 55
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      So what brought into the Soviet treasury the currency for which grain was bought?

                      What time?
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Soviet tape recorders, microcircuits, cars, consumer electronics?

                      Uh ... let's say in the 30s most of these positions were simply not produced.
                      By the way, cars for export went quite well.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      a fairy tale that fodder grain was purchased

                      No. The highest grade was purchased and the resulting flour was mixed into the domestic one. Why the quality of bread in the USSR was higher.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      the livestock was awesome under the Union

                      But this is the pure truth. Let's say the livestock of cattle has greatly decreased. Including here in the Kuban.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      mantra

                      So after all, about "buying bread" is also a mantra.
                      Serious purchases began after 1963, when the European part was devastated by the war, and the development of virgin lands failed miserably. But if you focus on this, you might think that under bad Stalin everything was fine with bread, but then ...
                      1. -8
                        13 August 2022 20: 08
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        What time?

                        80-e
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Uh ... let's say in the 30s most of these positions were simply not produced.

                        We are talking about the collapse of the Union
                        1974-80
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        By the way, cars for export went quite well

                        The bulk - to the CMEA countries
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        No. The highest grade was purchased and the resulting flour was mixed into the domestic one.

                        1st bodyazhat with the second (I'm talking about varieties laughing ) , 3rd with 4th. 2nd with the third bodyazhit makes no sense.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        But this is the pure truth. Let's say the livestock of cattle has greatly decreased. Including here in the Kuban.

                        Decreased, yes. But for grain we provide ourselves and sell
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        if you focus on this, you might think that under bad Stalin everything was fine with bread,

                        Pts bad - the starving Volga region, etc., the consequences of collectivization hi
                      2. +5
                        13 August 2022 20: 38
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        But for grain we provide ourselves and sell

                        Yes. But we buy seeds, fertilizers and plant protection products.
                        So not everything is so clear (tm)
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        starving Volga region

                        Under Stalin? Oh well...
                        This is not to mention the fact that you did not catch the irony :)))
                      3. -3
                        13 August 2022 23: 39
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Yes. But we buy seeds, fertilizers and plant protection products.
                        So not everything is so clear (tm)

                        Buy sad
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        This is not to mention the fact that you did not catch the irony :)))

                        I brake))
                    2. +9
                      13 August 2022 17: 54
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      cars

                      You won’t believe it, but yes. The USSR exported cars. And much more. For example, cameras.
                      Thus, from 1965 to 1974, the export of manufactured products to the developed capitalist countries increased from 48 million dollars. up to 267,9 million dollars. (6). The exports of cars (from 6,5 to 42,5%), watches (from 0,8 to 11,1%), tractors and agricultural machines (from 0 to 9%), and mining equipment (from 9,2 to 0,3), electrical and power equipment (from 8,1 to 1)
                      1. -7
                        13 August 2022 20: 10
                        All this took place, but since 1974 billions have been brought in by oil and gas - a consequence of the Arab embargo after the Yom Kippur War.
                      2. +4
                        14 August 2022 20: 56
                        Here, like a stoned man, he writes everything about the dependence of the USSR on raw materials. Looks like an adult is writing.
                2. +6
                  13 August 2022 09: 52
                  Well, I didn't see a single valuable argument. Not a single number. Demagogue...
                  1. -5
                    13 August 2022 10: 24
                    A demagogue is not a demagogue, the Union fell apart for reasons of the economy crookedly built by worthless Soviet managers)).
                    1. +3
                      13 August 2022 11: 43
                      I can scream too. I just can't prove anything. As well as why for these purposes it was necessary to divide the country artificially. No need! You don't need to convince me. me with a mustache
                      1. -2
                        13 August 2022 11: 47
                        I write all the way - the Union deprived itself of food independence, hence, coupled with the fig management, a collapse occurred. In my opinion, an axiom.
                      2. +3
                        13 August 2022 11: 49
                        Nobel Prize in the studio! Edison
                      3. -3
                        13 August 2022 11: 51
                        Don't be so nervous laughing
                        It's a thing of the past, the question is - why the hell agitate for a return to the fall state
                      4. +5
                        13 August 2022 11: 57
                        It's hard to deal in conversation with a vulgar notion
                      5. -3
                        13 August 2022 12: 00
                        And what, in your opinion, were the main reasons for the collapse of the USSR? Your version?
                      6. +5
                        13 August 2022 14: 57
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        And what, in your opinion, were the main reasons for the collapse of the USSR? Your version?

                      7. -3
                        13 August 2022 20: 14
                        Well, yes, they are, Moshe Dayan and Elvts Presley good ))
                      8. +3
                        13 August 2022 11: 59
                        Yes, because again there will be a plan in Russia in one form or another. There will be no choice. The economy will get worse. And you stay with your half-model
                      9. 0
                        13 August 2022 12: 01
                        Plan for what?
                    2. +7
                      13 August 2022 23: 39
                      The union collapsed for reasons of the economy crookedly built by worthless Soviet managers)).
                      I wonder how long the Israeli economy will live if sanctions are applied to it, about the same as they are now against Russia?
                      1. -4
                        13 August 2022 23: 47
                        Israel from the first day of its existence was under sanctions, embargoes and other restrictions.
                        Now the answer to your question:
                        will live exactly as long as G-d allotted to her, however, a lot of companies atypical for these countries will open in Jordan, Cyprus and Egypt Yes
                        The standard of living of the Israelis will then fall. Approximately to the Greek hi
                    3. +5
                      14 August 2022 09: 23
                      These managers rolled out the Hitlerite European Union and created Israel, including, in any case, they participated in the process and provided support.
                      1. -1
                        14 August 2022 15: 08
                        Israel was created by Eastern European Jews with the money and knowledge of Western European Jews. Everything else is secondary.
                      2. +4
                        14 August 2022 15: 29
                        You would not have survived there without superpowers, what is your economic base? Do not flatter yourself, and now Israel is vulnerable in the event of a blockade.
                      3. -2
                        14 August 2022 15: 33
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        You wouldn't survive there without superpowers

                        Would have survived, but would have lived at the level of Jordan
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        what is your economic base?

                        Brain
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        Israel is now vulnerable to a blockade.

                        Certainly
                      4. +3
                        14 August 2022 15: 45
                        Brains, well, in fact, this is greatly exaggerated, I know quite a few stupid Jews. Of course, you are not one of them, otherwise you simply would not communicate.
                        I also have brains and a lot of people too, and I did not need to go anywhere. It's not a reproach. But I stayed and found myself, and many of yours did not.
                      5. 0
                        14 August 2022 16: 28
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        I know quite a few stupid Jews.

                        I know not just stupid, but near-clinical Jewish idiots laughing And a lot
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        I also have brains and a lot of people too, and I did not need to go anywhere. It's not a reproach. But I stayed and found myself, and many of yours did not.

                        The Israelis' brains work to solve complex problems with simple / affordable methods and turn the results of the process into a commodity in demand on world markets. Nothing super-revolutionary, but everything is on topic, let's say. From this they live))
                      6. 0
                        14 August 2022 17: 50
                        Are the brains of others worse or something? Just for example, let's ask ourselves a question about Russians, and Russian culture of the 19th century. Names with surnames will immediately fall down, and now bam, how many of them are serfs? This is how the Jews were cut off from education, and there is nowhere to exchange experience.
                      7. -1
                        14 August 2022 21: 19
                        No, others have the same brains and even better.
                        The question is the speed of adaptation to circumstances, nothing more.
                3. +5
                  14 August 2022 07: 42
                  Firstly, they didn’t sell seed wheat to us .. they sold flour .. Canada refused to share seeds of high-yielding varieties of durum wheat, and because of ordinary seeds, the yield fluctuated around 5 tons per hectare, a third lower than Canada and the states, when you look at 1,4-3 tons, take into account this number is taken from the fields of the non-black earth region. For example, the state farm is a millionaire, whose fields I see through the window (this year they plowed and sown from zero for the first time) in the Soviet "terribly bad time" they removed up to 12 tons per hectare, due to the sharply continental climate, such crops every 3-5 years and bakery grains less than a third of the harvest
                  1. 0
                    14 August 2022 21: 02
                    Revive crops?
                    1. +1
                      14 August 2022 22: 13
                      they rather save fertilizers, they left them under "steam" somewhere else. Seriously, the administration of the region or city tried to seize these land for development as unused
                      1. +1
                        15 August 2022 09: 26
                        Here's how. With such an administration, the country will go far. Like Latin America
                      2. +2
                        15 August 2022 10: 28
                        Quote: Novosibirsk
                        Here's how. With such an administration, the country will go far. Like Latin America

                        Not with such an administration, but with such a Duma. It was she who adopted laws on the sale of land. In the USSR, the land was free, because it was owned by the state, and now suddenly a piece of wasteland has become worth millions. embarrassed to buy and close in order to build shopping centers or elite quarters in their place
                      3. +1
                        15 August 2022 10: 35
                        This is the thinking of our ruling circles - they build hotels instead of factories
            2. +6
              13 August 2022 09: 22
              There is a book by Kara-Murza. The national economy of the USSR. Look at the industry statistics. The book is very worthwhile. Written without prejudice. And then write anything ... and there are a lot of you on a patriotic resource, it seems. Either you are monarchists, or you are Black Hundreds, or you don’t understand who
              1. -2
                13 August 2022 10: 01
                So look at Kara-Murza, the most profitable article of Soviet trade in terms of currency receipts.
                Then look at what was bought with this currency from the West. Yes
                I'm not a monarchy, especially not a Black Hundred Yes
                Just rummaging through history
                1. +5
                  13 August 2022 11: 45
                  I told him about Foma, and he about Yeryoma. I have read this book. You are not. You also teach
                  1. -3
                    13 August 2022 11: 50
                    laughing
                    But what does the book have to do with it - the USSR's foreign exchange earnings were mainly from oil, grub was bought for currency, the rest was trade with the CMEA countries, the national economy of the Union, and so on - for the second time, because. there is no bread-khan for the country.
            3. +2
              14 August 2022 09: 28
              I myself come from peasants. I only have city parents. My grandfather hardly restrained his obscenity when talking about fists, and what it is can be seen on the example of Tsapko and the village of Kushchevskaya. It was the kulaks who declared war when they saw a competitor in the supply of marketable bread.
              Fartsa, guild workers, this is the rebirth of the elite, why did it happen, but three members of the CPSU (b) were knocked out on the front line. I work for myself, but believe me, with a fair distribution, I would easily enter into a kind of collective farm form.
              You are simply spoiled there in Israel, but you can look at capitalism, for example, in Mexico, where more people are killed every year because of drug squabbles than we have lost in Afghanistan in 9 years.
        2. +4
          13 August 2022 09: 15
          Collectivization and industrialization were one program. The mobilization path was the only possible one in the conditions of the first half of the 20th century. About the bomb - this is a favorite metaphor of journalists, arguing on any topic.
          1. -7
            13 August 2022 10: 08
            Collectivization was supposed to take place according to Trotsky - gradually, due to the artificial increase in the price of agricultural machinery and fixed prices for agricultural products.
            The kulaks would survive - intelligent peasants united in collective farms, who were able to feed the country earlier, and a layer of qualified agricultural workers would also appear, the rest should have ended up in factories.
            Quote: Novosibirsk
            About the bomb - this is a favorite metaphor of journalists, arguing on any topic.

            Xe
            When the sensible peasantry was cut down and the devil knows what in the form of collective farms was built in its place, the grub had to be bought for foreign currency.
            The currency was given mainly by oil and gas.
            They fell in price - the economy also fell. Then the country fell apart.
            1. +6
              13 August 2022 11: 55
              If you are ideologically on the other side, then there is no need to deduce from this axiom. The path of Stolypin's reforms turned out to be a dead end and, under the conditions of Russia, uncompetitive. There was a ruin of the middle peasants due to many risk factors. It was not possible to make large farms. Moreover, where Stolypin did his best, the Civil War flared the most.
              1. -6
                13 August 2022 11: 56
                Trotsky proposed a working scheme request
                1. +3
                  14 August 2022 09: 36
                  Trotsky was never consistent. Even now it is amusing for me to look at the dispute between Trotskyists and Stalinists. what is the difference between you? But Trotsky was overwhelmed and there was no end to his ambitions. By the way, he was killed due to specific harm during the Spanish Civil War, I think so.
                  1. -5
                    14 August 2022 14: 39
                    He was killed because of an attempt to split the world communist movement, namely criticism of Stalin hi
                  2. +1
                    14 August 2022 21: 05
                    Non-Bolshevism - such was Lenin's verdict regarding Trotsky. What could he offer.
                2. 0
                  14 August 2022 10: 55
                  And don’t you extend the proof on Trotsky’s schemes for the seizure of grain (agricultural organizations))?
                  1. -1
                    14 August 2022 14: 52
                    Volkogonov's book "Trotsky" - read it, you will find a lot of aghi-integes about the political university hi
                    1. +1
                      14 August 2022 15: 55
                      Mercy is terrible! hi
                      But I would still like, in fact, the author .....
                      Because Rabinovich (Volkogonov) can sing well, but we, it seems, are talking about Caruso ....
                      But Mercy doesn't care, let's read what our luminary depicted there on the theme of Leiba.
                      1. -1
                        14 August 2022 16: 57
                        You can drive into Google / Yandex / Yahoo Trotsky Collectivization feel
              2. +2
                14 August 2022 09: 34
                I will say more, Stolypin did everything possible for a new revolution, creating a link between the working class and the peasantry.
                1. -1
                  14 August 2022 14: 53
                  Not only he
                  1. +1
                    14 August 2022 15: 02
                    Of course, one person cannot do this.
                    1. 0
                      14 August 2022 21: 08
                      The intelligentsia became the driving force. And they only sing to us about the fact that she was expelled from the country, and without exception.
                2. 0
                  14 August 2022 21: 07
                  An outstanding figure and person, of course. But his reforms had political goals, of course, above all.
            2. +5
              13 August 2022 11: 56
              This is Mikhalkovism. About peasants, about grain, etc. it's there. This is not science
              1. -6
                13 August 2022 11: 58
                Yes, Mikhalkov has something to do with it - grain has risen in price, oil has fallen in price, the USSR has come kirdyk. It was possible to fix everything, but this required brains, which the Central Committee of the CPSU did not have. That's the whole story.
                1. +7
                  13 August 2022 12: 00
                  Are you a troll by any chance?) About oil, it’s a lie to repeat tau stubbornly. Look like a troll.
                  1. -3
                    13 August 2022 12: 02
                    So tell me how it really was request
                2. +7
                  13 August 2022 12: 01
                  Mikhalkov loves to talk about what a great agrarian Russia we lost in the 17th
                  1. -1
                    14 August 2022 14: 56
                    Quote: Novosibirsk

                    Novosibirsk
                    Yesterday, 12: 01

                    +6
                    Mikhalkov loves to talk about what a great agrarian Russia we lost in 17

                    Yes
            3. +4
              14 August 2022 09: 33
              Fist - again, this is a hoe. As for smartness, is it about usury? That's exactly what the fists were doing and the percentage was 50-60. In terms of ability to work, my grandfather had a dacha, and until he worked on it, he would not calm down, by the way, this strained me in childhood. I would like to drive on a bike, and then to do a garden. Good. when there is something there.
              You, Jews, residents of urban and peasant economy do not know, so if you are a worthless owner, then you will simply die, natural selection is working, no one will help you. Regarding drinking, yes, they drank in the countryside, but no one drank instead of work.
              1. -2
                14 August 2022 15: 04
                Quote: Alexander Salenko
                Fist - again, this is a hoe.

                If you are talking about 6 of your Tsapkov, then no, from another opera))
                Quote: Alexander Salenko
                As for smartness, is it about usury?

                Regarding efficient economic management
                Quote: Alexander Salenko
                this is what the fists were doing and the percentage was 50-60.

                I do not think that all, I even believe that a minority
                Quote: Alexander Salenko
                You, Jews, residents of the city and peasant economy do not know

                lol
                One of the most advanced in the world is considered Israeli. There was a murdered farm here in the Krasnodar Territory - Zolotaya Niva. An Israeli agronomist-manager was invited there for two years, they put him on a salary of 1,5 million rubles per month and the "company" became profitable - technology plus proper management Yes
                Quote: Alexander Salenko
                Regarding drinking, yes, they drank in the countryside, but no one drank instead of work.

                The problem in large farms is not booze, but the theft of workers at all levels hi
                1. +4
                  14 August 2022 15: 24
                  In hoes, it’s also about theft, something my ancestors didn’t steal a damn thing, maybe they didn’t have skills? Our huts were not locked, if you do not know. It was especially shameful to whistle something from the victims of the fire.
                  The peasant community, well, this is when you know what color your underpants are and how many of them are available, so that you understand.
                  I myself visited a peasant farm, the dealer is strangling me like that, he has documents, but I don’t, what should I do? He buys mine and sells it, and then you give me the loot and then you either trade, or you grow crops and graze livestock .. Doing both of them won’t work. This is how the collective farm appears, against small-scale production.
                  The kulak is a large-scale production. He supplies marketable grain, only through the exploitation of his fellow villagers. There was one fist per village, rarely two. Here you don’t have a horse, you saved up for it and bought it, bam, stole it, or someone poisoned you and you have nothing to plow. Where are you going? To the fist, rent a horse, and give away half the crop. You may not give it back, but your arm will be broken, or your wife will be raped, because the problem is not to lend, but to take it back. And it is not the fist that does this, but the drunkard who feeds from the fist.
                  Pope Peter the Great tried to fight the kulaks.
                  1. -3
                    14 August 2022 15: 30
                    Quote: Alexander Salenko
                    The peasant community, well, this is when you know what color your underpants are and how many of them are available, so that you understand.

                    Lived for three years in a kibbutz - I know))
                    Quote: Alexander Salenko
                    This is how the collective farm appears, against small-scale production.

                    The Soviet collective farm appeared for other reasons - the centralization of control over the supply of agricultural products and labor from the countryside to the industrializing city.
                    Quote: Alexander Salenko
                    The kulak is a large-scale production. He supplies marketable grain, only through the exploitation of his fellow villagers.

                    Today called a farmer
                    Quote: Alexander Salenko
                    You may not give it back, but your arm will be broken, or your wife will be raped, because the problem is not to lend, but to take it back. And it is not the fist that does this, but the drunkard who feeds from the fist.
                    Pope Peter the Great tried to fight the kulaks.

                    These are already local lawless people, such as Tsapkov
                    1. +2
                      14 August 2022 15: 49
                      The collective farm is not centralized, the collective farm itself was not even state-owned.
                      1. -2
                        14 August 2022 16: 29
                        I'm talking about the purpose of creating a collective farm, and not about the structure
                  2. 0
                    14 August 2022 21: 12
                    They tried to become the power in the village. Of course, the central government could not put up with this in the conditions of crop failures and the impending war.
                2. +1
                  14 August 2022 15: 46
                  By the way, Krasnodar is awesomely developed in terms of agriculture.
                  1. +1
                    14 August 2022 16: 30
                    Quote: Alexander Salenko
                    By the way, Krasnodar is awesomely developed in terms of agriculture.

                    The relatives have a farm of thousands of hectares)). SPC bag, wheat, etc.
              2. 0
                14 August 2022 15: 18
                I wrote to him about the fact that the conditions in the countryside in Russia were very harsh and led to the strongest stratification.
                1. 0
                  14 August 2022 15: 47
                  Precisely, and, as a result, anger, then serfdom was not yet forgiven.
                  1. +1
                    14 August 2022 15: 59
                    Maybe. And here again bondage is now with the rural bourgeois.
      2. +2
        14 August 2022 09: 21
        That's right, sitting on two chairs, the development of social democracy is an example of this.
        1. 0
          14 August 2022 15: 21
          Yes. There is even a quote from an era earlier:

          Social Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism.

          J. Stalin
    2. +1
      14 August 2022 01: 21
      Quote: Krasnodar
      In short, ill-conceived nationalization, which led to conflict with highly developed countries

      This is just a failed attempt to achieve greater autonomy and independence from the US and build a more just society.
  6. +3
    13 August 2022 07: 45
    I could never form a unanimous opinion for myself regarding the figures of Pinochet and Allende. Both are cute in some way, each has its own truth. Although ideologically Allende probably always seemed closer. In any case, against the backdrop of the madness of the modern "new left" (including those who have recently come to power in Chile), his program looks profitable.
    1. -6
      13 August 2022 07: 54
      I asked my father in the mid-1980s - what about Chile?
      He, a man of life, a Moldavian Jew, explained everything to me very simply:
      They showed on TV the protests of the Chileans after the overthrow of Allende - running through the streets, all thin.
      Then they showed protests ten years after the usurpation of power by Pinochet - they again run through the streets, only well-fed hi
      1. +2
        14 August 2022 09: 39
        And don’t you expect a revolt of the well-fed? And is it fatness or metabolic disorders and a sedentary lifestyle? When I got married, my mother wanted to fatten up with my mother-in-law, and it even worked out before the first trip to the mountains. My son looks like a Buchenwald burly man because he swings and swims in the pool. That's another indicator.
        1. -3
          14 August 2022 14: 48
          I’m thin too, but I just don’t think that Allende’s supporters created their complexion thanks to crossfit, sparring and swimming pools Yes
          1. +2
            14 August 2022 15: 00
            What about metabolic disorders, for example, and a sedentary lifestyle? I see that people, for example, have forgotten how to walk normally for the most part, they need air conditioning, okay when it hits 37, but can 22 degrees be moved?
            This is a consequence of the developed motor transport, it was then stupidly not so much, and sedentary office work. Here you and I are thin, for sitting in the covid year I completely grew a mammoth for myself, I didn’t worry, because I know what I’ll lose. And it became clear why office workers get fat because they move little. So it's not an indicator.
            Look at the photos of the miners, there, a kilometer underground, it’s stuffy and the face is 50 cm, so it’s also hot there. You saw the protests of the miners of Donbass in Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR. or miners of the Lviv-Volyn basin?
            On the other hand, fat Kievans came out to protest, well, not all of them are fat, but those who are disgusted by something there.
            And now tell me, are you sure that Ukrainians began to live better 8 years ago, there are a lot of videos, they definitely won’t die of hunger, and even more so in Kyiv?
            1. -3
              14 August 2022 15: 25
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              This is a consequence of the developed motor transport, it was then stupidly not so much, and sedentary office work.

              That is, all the same signs of a prosperous economy.
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              for sitting in the covid year, mammoth grew quite for himself, I didn’t worry, because I know what I’ll lose.

              I used to walk 10-12 km / day
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              it became clear why office workers get fat because they move little

              And they don't eat right.
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              You saw the protests of the miners of Donbass in Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR. or miners of the Lviv-Volyn basin?

              In the Russian Federation, during the Yeltsin era, there were protests of miners in Kuzbass
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              On the other hand, fat Kievans came out to protest, well, not all of them are fat, but those who are disgusted by something there.

              It was at first fat (conditionally) that they came out, then the interested people took advantage of the situation and housing and sports began to gather there
              Quote: Alexander Salenko
              , Are you sure that Ukrainians began to live better 8 years ago, there are a lot of videos, they definitely won’t die of hunger, and even more so in Kyiv?

              There was a raider seizure of power, not an example
              1. +1
                14 August 2022 15: 42
                So the well-fed rebelled. The hungry plowed. I'm telling you that the people of Kiev did not have enough rocket attacks for their stupidity? Did you jump? If anything, my sister and niece sat in the basements in Kiev. Zdobuly?!
                And Bolotnaya in Moscow? These are those who are mad with fat, so your exposure to fat and thin is nothing. Excuse me.
                1. -2
                  14 August 2022 16: 23
                  That is, you want to say that the masters of race walking first opposed Pinochet, and then, ten years later, office plankton? ))
                  1. +1
                    14 August 2022 17: 51
                    My point is that the number of fat people on the planet has just increased. My grandfather said that the war made everyone thinner.
                    1. -1
                      14 August 2022 21: 17
                      That yes
                      But - not in 10 years only in Chile
      2. VLR
        +1
        15 August 2022 07: 25
        Regarding the change in the appearance of the Chileans: You forget about the acceleration that affected Chile just in these years. The generation of fathers and children was strikingly different, outwardly it was in all countries, and in the USSR, and in the USA, and in Germany, etc. But the acceleration was uneven - somewhere earlier, somewhere a little later.
        1. -2
          15 August 2022 07: 34
          Somewhere expressed in height, somewhere in excess weight? ))
    2. +6
      13 August 2022 08: 50
      Allende's ideology is definitely not in communism. Standard history. The bourgeoisie no longer needed it.
      1. -2
        13 August 2022 09: 08
        First of all, economically developed countries with a prosperous bourgeoisie will come to communism.
        But these will be closed societies with communism for their citizens and exploitation of those who come in large numbers, like modern Israeli kibbutzim.
        Allende is a socialist-idealist. And apparently a populist.
        1. +5
          13 August 2022 09: 09
          Right on Allende) good luck ...
          1. -3
            13 August 2022 09: 11
            Quote: Novosibirsk
            Right on Allende) good luck ...

            lol
            Yes, the modern Russian system suits me. Here are the reasons for the collapse of the Union in the Soviet model of the so-called. socialism))
            1. +6
              13 August 2022 09: 17
              Here, with this phrase and it was necessary to begin. But why are you here? After all, the weapons are all Soviet. Developed at the time.
              1. -3
                13 August 2022 09: 35
                Not everyone ))
                1. +5
                  13 August 2022 09: 42
                  Far?) Well, list what was done NOT on the back of the Union?
                  1. -3
                    13 August 2022 09: 51
                    UAV, for example
                    1. +4
                      13 August 2022 11: 38
                      And that's all? Yes, it's too early to report
            2. +4
              13 August 2022 09: 19
              What is the name of today's model? Surprise
              1. -3
                13 August 2022 09: 36
                Post-Soviet capitalism wink
                1. +4
                  13 August 2022 09: 46
                  Any state monopoly in the world has a plan. Only the Russian does not. Convenient for certain things, but definitely not for survival, let alone expansion
                  1. -4
                    13 August 2022 09: 49
                    What is the state monopoly in Russia?
                    Quote: Novosibirsk
                    Convenient for certain things, but definitely not for survival, let alone expansion

                    There is another problem here - who makes up the state plan. In the USSR, this was not done by the most competent people.
                    1. +1
                      13 August 2022 11: 41
                      I would not judge those people so unambiguously. And an example of planning is today's defense industry. At least we kept the level there.
                      1. 0
                        13 August 2022 11: 45
                        Defense - a lot of questions.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. 0
                13 August 2022 10: 48
                Quote: Novosibirsk
                What is the name of today's model? Surprise

                Outpost, for example
                Pacer
                Cube
                Orlan
        2. 0
          13 August 2022 09: 24
          Populists aren't all that smart
          1. +2
            13 August 2022 09: 50
            If populism is needed for one's own political survival, that's smart.
            In Allende's case, it brought him to his grave.
        3. -1
          14 August 2022 01: 25
          Quote: Krasnodar
          First of all, economically developed countries with a prosperous bourgeoisie will come to communism.

          Apparently pure communism is not possible, or rather not viable. This is an emergency form of organization in conditions of war, natural disasters or lack of resources. A person should have the privileged right to enjoy the fruits of his labors.
          1. +3
            14 August 2022 09: 43
            It says exactly that you do not understand what it is. In general, few people understand what communism is, but Marx pointed out the contradiction between labor and capital. The worker needs to earn as much as possible, and the capitalist needs to be paid as little as possible.
            If you talk about the market, then I am able to give historical examples of how even with the help of aviation in the United States they crushed protests, though not military, but private, but they bombed themselves, and what you use, or your loved ones, was won with blood.
          2. +1
            14 August 2022 10: 57
            A person should have the privileged right to enjoy the fruits of his labors.

            In general, it is clear how an academician or an entrepreneur/organizer will exercise this right. What about a plumber/vacuum cleaner, cleaner or nurse there?
  7. +7
    13 August 2022 08: 07
    The author also mentioned that Chile has not lost a single war, and this is true. True, in the history of Chile, apart from the war of independence, there was only one really serious war - the Second Pacific War of 1879-1883. I once wrote a whole series of articles about this war, in which the Chileans completely defeated the coalition of Peru and Bolivia, capturing regions rich in minerals and cutting off Bolivia from the Pacific Ocean. If there had been no victory in this war, Chile would have remained a second-rate state by the standards of Latin America. And so - advanced to the top along with Brazil and Argentina. The Peruvians are still preparing for revenge, but they do not dare to ask for trouble. Bolivia is also preparing, but the country is frankly impoverished and preparations are mainly limited to jingoistic cries. In addition, Bolivia was also humiliated and bled dry by the lost war with Paraguay.
  8. +10
    13 August 2022 08: 31
    It is noteworthy that the Communist Party of Chile, at that time, occupied less radical positions, advocated moderate reforms and a compromise with the Christian Democrats, than the Left Revolutionary Movement, which was in opposition to the government, and even the leading force of the "People's Unity" - the Socialist Party of Chile. The leftist revolutionary movement actively contributed to the decline in the popularity of "People's Unity" in the middle class and the Chilean army, which led to the transition of the CDA into opposition to it and contributed to a further military coup.
    1. 0
      13 August 2022 21: 14
      Every vegetable has its time
  9. 0
    13 August 2022 09: 23
    Boys, I have now tried to combine the works of Vyacheslav Olegovich and Valery.
    More precisely, the words of Engels and the situation in Chile and partly in Russia.
    If you don't mind I'll pt blocks
  10. 0
    13 August 2022 11: 15
    Quote: Novosibirsk
    This is what happens when you build socialism without the dictatorship of the proletariat, relying on the same bourgeoisie. Outcome - fascism

    This was historically predetermined: who were Allende and his followers: carbohydrates or the bourgeoisie?
    1. +1
      13 August 2022 11: 39
      Carbohydrates? What's this
      1. 0
        13 August 2022 12: 23
        Don't get hung up on a typo. Miners.
  11. +1
    13 August 2022 12: 43
    Valery, I hope for your justice. Some will spit on me for the truth.
    Allende's main mistake is haste: he really wanted everything at once. In conditions when "the forces of conservatives and supporters of the reform are approximately equal" IT IS NECESSARY TO ACT EVOLUTIONARY!
    And he wanted everything at once. This is his mistake.
  12. +6
    13 August 2022 14: 32
    And in Cuba, too, "failure"? How to say. Cuba is in many ways an example of a just social order.
    Reasons for failure: 1) CIA intervention (classic of the genre), 2) economic blockade, 3) economic dependence on transnational monopolies based on the USA, 4) abstract understanding of the nature of power and democracy, 5) political immaturity, incorrect assessment of the balance of power on the world stage , romantic adventurism, the desire for self-sacrifice for the sake of high ideals, the inability and unwillingness to act by repressive methods against the conspirators.
    1. 0
      14 August 2022 01: 37
      Quote: iouris
      Reasons for failure: 1) CIA intervention (classic of the genre)

      Castro and Che, in difficult moments, led their supporters with them to the subbotnik to collect cane, and to develop a model for the political reorganization of the country, and to the Contras. When your leader cuts sugar cane next to you and covers you with fire and armor in the lead tank, victory will be his and his supporters and dying for his cause is honorable and not so scary. When you personally work and fight, there is an incentive to save and not waste the country's human and material resources.
  13. +2
    13 August 2022 14: 44
    Quote: Krasnodar
    But what difference does it make what was canceled there - collectivization turned out to be a time bomb against the Soviet b.


    In-in ..... Even their own eggs interfere with some dancers, and not only "collectivization and dictatorship" or vice versa, their absence.

    Therefore, I agree that ..... eklmn ..... "what's the difference what was canceled there" .... and most importantly, now it’s the other way around, applied ..... Anyway, in the end everything will be the same. Just a view from the other side.

    One thing is not clear, how did the Second World War manage to win and create the second economy of the World by the beginning of the 70s?

    Of course, I guess that this is the simplest thing - you just need to drive millions into the Gulag and put millions of soldiers into the ground. And from this, everything is like that right away, how it will trample, how it will trample ..... that immediately the second economy of the World ....

    But for some reason, in other countries of the World, only talented leaders create an industry and win wars...
    1. 0
      14 August 2022 01: 41
      Quote: ivan2022
      One thing is not clear how the Second World War was won and created by the beginning of the 70s the second economy of the World

      The differences between Brezhnev, Andropov, Gorbachev and Lenin, Stalin and even Khrushchev are striking. The first made a career in the hierarchy, the second fought for the idea when the chances of its viability were negligible. Any politician makes mistakes, the main thing is that the perniciousness of mistakes does not exceed the dignity of successes. Perhaps collectivization did not lead to the collapse of the USSR, if by 1980 funds from the village had ceased to be pumped out for the sake of the production of stacker cranes at defense plants about a hundred times more than necessary.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. +1
    14 August 2022 16: 24
    Quote: gsev
    Perhaps collectivization did not lead to the collapse of the USSR, if by 1980 funds from the village had ceased to be pumped out for the sake of the production of stacker cranes at defense plants about a hundred times more than necessary.

    Do you know that collectivization was in the USSR in the 30s? It began half a century before 1980.

    With this collectivization, the country withstood the Second World War. And by the 70s it became the second economy in the world. By the way, in the ranking of the quality of life in the countries of the World in 1988, the USSR took 26th place, and now the Russian Federation is IN THE PLACE BETWEEN NUMBER 60 AND NUMBER 70.

    Moreover, if we recall history, an alternative to state collectivization would be the spontaneous "collectivization" of the poor into farm work - - by fists. Do you think it would be better in Russia?

    Do you know that even according to modern data from the Federal State Statistics Service of the Russian Federation, meat production in the Russian Federation reached the level of the RSFSR from 1989 only in 2015? And for dairy products, the level of 1989 has not been reached even now?

    I believe that the reasons for the "collapse" of the USSR should not be sought in collectivization. And not "at the conservatory", as in the old joke.

    Can you explain specifically how this "collapse of the USSR" of yours disappeared in a week at the beginning of 1992 after Yeltsin's decree, when "Gaidar saved the country"? Where did everything suddenly come from that "did not exist" in the USSR?
    Do you seriously believe that Gaidar and Yeltsin and Chubais saved the country?
  16. 0
    17 October 2022 16: 11
    Allende, like his wife Ortegzia, were 100% Jews .... Taking in the historical German influence in Chile, Pinochet removed them ....

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