Myths about the superiority of Western weapons are dispelled by the Russian NWO

Military observer Mikhail Khodaryonok debunks the myth of the vaunted Western weapons, which turned out to be not at all as formidable as they claimed in Kyiv. At first, plans to gain superiority of the Armed Forces on the battlefield thanks to the “invulnerable” Bayraktars and powerful Javelins collapsed, the expert believes. Following the turn came to other "Western gifts" - the German self-propelled guns PzH-2000 and the Polish self-propelled howitzers KRAB, the technical characteristics of which turned out to be completely different from those stated in the descriptions.

According to our gunners, Polish self-propelled guns turned out to be long-range guns only on paper. With a declared firing range of 30 kilometers with conventional Crab shells, they are used from distances half that - 15, at best, 17 kilometers. This makes it easy to destroy them in the framework of counter-battery combat with almost any type of allied artillery.

Not everything is fine with the "Crabs" and with the rate of fire. According to technical data, it should be six shots per minute, but in practice, Ukrainians manage to fire no more than three, and sometimes even one shot. Such a density of fire does not allow us to talk about the suppression of enemy positions.

And with the amount of promised Western assistance, everything turned out to be not very good. The Poles promised Kyiv the supply of sixty "Crabs", but in fact they provided only 18 installations. Whether the rest will be delivered is a big question.

Zelensky really hoped that the M777, M109 self-propelled guns, PzH-2000 and KRAB howitzers would allow the Armed Forces of Ukraine not only to equalize the balance of forces at the front, but even allow them to launch a counteroffensive. In reality, this did not happen. The allied forces have a five-fold, and in some areas a twenty-fold advantage in artillery over the Armed Forces of Ukraine. In addition, the enemy does not have enough ammunition, and the foreign guns themselves break down too quickly due to intensive use. Or they are simply destroyed by our artillery and VKS.

Russia's superiority in firepower negated any military assistance. Songs about the indestructible Western "wunderwaffe" in the Ukrainian language are gradually fading away

- concludes Khodaryonok.

Comments

[Trapp1st]

Myths about the superiority of Western weapons are dispelled by the Russian NWO

So peremptorily, it will still be possible to say when the real owners will operate with these weapons.

[Lech from Android.]

The real owners of these weapons really don’t want to die in battle against the Russians ... Ukrainians do it for them, they don’t feel sorry for them.
I thought the Javelins would prove themselves in battles according to the advertisements of the Americans ... but again the crooks cheated ... they promoted this weapon to the skies ... but the real result turned out to be so-so.

[Trapp1st]

I thought the Javelins would prove themselves in battles according to the advertisements of the Americans ... but again the crooks cheated ... they promoted this weapon to the skies ... but the real result turned out to be so-so.

Judging by the data of objective control, the result of the use of javelins is very sad for armored vehicles.

[Lech from Android.]

Please provide this information.
So far I have seen the results of the use of Stugna, Kornetov ... and Javelin and the British MANPADS are not very impressive against their background.

[Trapp1st]

Please provide this information.

Do you want me to post the murders of Russian servicemen? Are you a normal person? Type in even in YouTube, even in Google, even in the cart.

[Lech from Android.]

Do you want me to post the murders of Russian servicemen? Are you a normal person?

I just want real evidence ... and not your verbiage.
Don't get personal.
I saw various videos on different resources ... which I will not indicate.
And therefore, I have my own opinion on this matter ... if you don’t like it, well, I’m sorry ... I didn’t justify your high trust.

[Trapp1st]

I just want real proof...

You want me to create problems for myself. Google to the rescue.

I saw different videos on different resources ...

Please provide this information. Enough of your verbiage.

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: Trapp1st

Google to the rescue.

Thanks for the tip .. but I didn’t know ...
To continue our argument, we need to know the real statistics, and it may differ somewhat from what we draw from the media.
So now we can't convince each other of anything.

[Lech from Android.]

I won't give... my verbiage is based on what I saw ... my word against yours.
You and I are on an equal footing ... you claim that the Javelins caused great damage to our tanks ... I argue that this is not so.

[Trapp1st]

you claim that the Javelins caused great damage to our tanks

You are inattentive or deliberately attribute too much to me!

the result of the use of javelins is very sad for armored vehicles.

[Lech from Android.]

What's the difference?
The result of using any MANPADS for armored vehicles can be sad if you correctly hit the gas tank, ammunition rack and just a weak spot in it.
Why then praise the Javelins.
Any weapon in skillful hands can be dangerous to the enemy.

[Trapp1st]

What's the difference?

Well, something like between round and warm, the meaning is different. I've seen footage of the application and result, but I don't have the statistics, and you attribute me a quantification

caused great damage to our tanks

.

just a weak spot in it.

For example from the top...

[Vladimir 290]

There is nothing to argue about. While this data, if any, is in papers with one or two zeros. Maybe someday it will be officially published. In the meantime, only the subjective opinion of the participants and the views of the video, which in itself also does not say much.

[igorka357]

Also in the stern, on board, the sweat of the turret, and a lot of places. Above is just another weak spot.

[Cympak]

The result of using any MANPADS for armored vehicles can be sad if you correctly hit the gas tank, ammunition rack and just a weak spot in it.
Why then praise the Javelins.
Any weapon in skillful hands can be dangerous to the enemy.

Why, then, ATGMs, distribute Molotov cocktails to everyone, and even better sapper shovels, because you can just drip a tank with them ....
With your jingoistic dibilism, you should go to the front, where it is quickly treated

[Rage66]

Hurray - so far only you. You can drip nose drops, not tanks

[igorka357]

With a sapper shovel, the tank is easily disabled by one fighter, although how do you know.

[My doctor]

misprint MANPADS, but you need ATGM

[vova1973]

Potentially, Javelins are a serious threat, so massively tanks are not allowed to break through the fortifications - this is obvious.

[poquello]

Quote: Trapp1st

Please provide this information.

Do you want me to post the murders of Russian servicemen?

ask yourself a question about normality, the javelin was discussed in the context of modern anti-tank systems, as expected - in comparison, no

[igorka357]

The man wanted to tell you that the same Stugna and Kornet brought much more sadness than your already forgotten icons of javelins and nlava .. just as the formidable bayraktar, which he couldn’t do shit, was forgotten .. soon your chimeras will sink into oblivion. And I don’t need to scratch that it’s not yours, the ukrobot can be seen for a hundred kilometers.

[zombirusrev]

"Links to the studio, otherwise fffftopka!" (c)

[svp67]

Quote: Trapp1st

Judging by the data of objective control, the result of the use of javelins is very sad for armored vehicles.

And where was objective control carried out, at the training ground or on the battlefield? Specify the effectiveness of these anti-tank systems on the battlefield, as far as I remember back in the spring, the Americans said that they had delivered several times more "Spears" than Russia's tanks, the summer is ending, and Russia's tactics are still not ending ...

[Trapp1st]

summer is ending, but Russia’s takni is not ending ...

Do you think that all NVO came down to Russian tank attacks on Ukrainian PRTK?)))

[svp67]

Quote: Trapp1st

Do you think that all NVO came down to Russian tank attacks on Ukrainian PRTK?)))

No, judging by your words, the SVO comes down to the strikes of the Spear anti-tank systems on the tanks of the RF Armed Forces)))
Well, bring the data of "objective control"

[Trapp1st]

No, judging by your words, the SVO comes down to the strikes of the Spear anti-tank systems on the tanks of the RF Armed Forces

Where did you read this? Maybe confused something?

[svp67]

Quote: Trapp1st

Where did you read this? Maybe confused something?

Yes, here are the...

Quote: Trapp1st

I've seen footage of the application and result, but I don't have the statistics, and you attribute me a quantification

But it is only the statistics of use and effectiveness that provide OBJECTIVE information about the effectiveness of weapons.

[Trapp1st]

Yes, here are the...

Where is my statement put forward here that the SVO is exclusively a confrontation between tanks and anti-tank systems spear? In my opinion you are delusional)))

[igorka357]

A competent troll, just stupidly trolls with stupid questions, they explained everything to him in phrases, so now he demands that they spell it, and put it in his mouth .. a clown in one word.

[nickname7]

NWO reduced to Russian tank attacks on the PRTK

Attacks are not attacks, there are many cases when tanks go somewhere, either in a convoy or several in an advanced patrol, and those sitting in ambush with a javelin in the bushes or from the roof of a building destroy tanks easily.

[poquello]

Quote: svp67

as far as I remember, back in the spring, the Americans stated that they had delivered several times more "Spears" than Russia's tanks

the Americans made a mistake with the quantity, it was necessary to supply at least six times more, but bad luck - there will not be enough shooters

[Cympak]

that they put in several times more "Spears" than Russia's tanks, summer is already ending, and Russia's tanks are still not ending ...

Yes, the tanks do not end. At the beginning of the SVO there were T-72B3, T-80BVM. After the withdrawal of forces from Kyiv, the T-72B went into action. After Mariupol, T-62Ms were brought in. So it will go to the T-34-85, which are in the form of monuments, things can come.

[svp67]

Quote: Cympak

At the beginning of the SVO there were T-72B3, T-80BVM.

Yeah ... Are you sure that they were the only ones?

[Cympak]

Not only, but at the beginning there were most of them on the frames of the video reports

[svp67]

Quote: Cympak

Not only, but at the beginning there were most of them on the frames of the video reports

No. This is not entirely true.

[My doctor]

Quote: svp67

Specify the effectiveness of these anti-tank systems on the battlefield, as far as I remember back in the spring, the Americans said that they had delivered several times more "Spears" than Russia's tanks, the summer is ending, and Russia's tactics are still not ending ...

I’m not a military man, but I think if there wasn’t such a saturation of the Armed Forces of the ATGM, then it wouldn’t be worth it to plow with artillery like that, direct aiming of a tank gun would be enough, and if they fire, they don’t see the target (according to external target designation) from temporary firing positions . That's right, with such tactics, the javelin is useless.

[Cympak]

That's right, with such tactics, the javelin is useless.

This tactic is precisely determined by the large number of effective anti-tank weapons the enemy has. "Javelin" does not allow the tank to go on direct fire and shoot / crush the enemy with impunity.

[svp67]

Quote: Cympak

"Javelin" does not allow the tank to go on direct fire and shoot / crush the enemy with impunity.

Somewhere so ....))))))

[svp67]

Quote: Cympak

"Javelin" does not allow the tank to go on direct fire

Can't a tank shoot differently? That is, not direct fire?

[Cympak]

Can't a tank shoot differently? That is, not direct fire?

He can shoot, but hit .... Tank biathlon to help you

[svp67]

Quote: Cympak

He can shoot, but hit ....

To each his own. 9400 meters, this is my personal record for hitting a target with the first shot. The main thing is not to interfere with technology ...)))

[igorka357]

Also, such tactics do not allow the use of Cornet, Stugna .. yes, even LNG-9 will no longer allow this ..

[svp67]

Quote: MyVrach

I’m not a military man, but I think if there wasn’t such a saturation of the APU with anti-tank systems, then it wouldn’t be worth plowing with artillery like that, direct aiming of a tank gun would be enough

No, you are not quite right. During the Great Patriotic War there were no "Spears", but in order for the infantry to successfully advance, the front line and in the depths of the enemy's defense, the artillery had to plow everything ...

[Cympak]

This is the tactics of illiterate commanders aged 41-42. Then they learned to surround, displace, and things went west.
By the way, the effective tactic of the Wehrmacht in 41-42 was not at all artillery shelling of the field fortifications of the Red Army. For frontal strikes, they had Luftwaffe liaison officers in their tank divisions, who called Yu-87s, who leveled the units of defense with the ground.

[svp67]

Quote: Cympak

This is the tactics of illiterate commanders aged 41-42. Then they learned to surround, displace, and things went west.

Yeah ... Your knowledge of military history is impressive. You, so for the sake of interest, look at the years and operations, how many guns our command attracted and what was the consumption of ammunition, you will be very surprised ... I assure you

Quote: Cympak

For frontal strikes, they had Luftwaffe liaison officers in their tank divisions, who called Yu-87s, who leveled the units of defense with the ground.

Where do you get such knowledge? The Germans used infantry reinforced with assault guns to break through the defenses, and tanks were already being introduced into the gap.
And the "things" were mainly used to suppress our artillery, including anti-tank ones.
And the effectiveness of the German tactics was that the infantry attacked almost immediately after the end of the artillery fire raid, and our stunned infantry simply had almost no time to organize a rebuff

[igorka357]

Wow, you can immediately see the guy well-read by Suvorov-Rezun ..

[My doctor]

I meant a little different. As I understand it, you are saying that in the Second World War, artillery preparation preceded the offensive. But as I see from the videos, artillery fire is carried out in order to force the enemy to surrender positions without a direct collision with tanks. And if there was an opportunity to do this without such an expense of ammunition, they would take advantage of it.
But where did I get that ammunition consumption is disproportionately high for the tasks? So this is the opinion imposed on me on the site.

[svp67]

Quote: MyVrach

But where did I get that ammunition consumption is disproportionately high for the tasks?

There are clear standards for the consumption of ammunition.

[My doctor]

Quote: svp67

There are clear standards for the consumption of ammunition.

Again, I meant something completely different. But okay, it will do.

[Incvizitor]

Judging by the cover, this weapon does not work at a short distance and they do not know how to hide behind civilians and fight only in cities with streets just right.

[_Ugene_]

and the result turned out to be so-so

do you know how many tanks we lost from anti-tank systems to draw such conclusions? our Defense Ministry either does not say anything about the losses or speaks a clear lie, but according to various indirect estimates, we lost several hundred tanks, 300-500, maybe more, if these losses were not hidden from us, we would not have to evaluate according to the statements of the opposite side

[Lech from Android.]

do you know how many tanks we lost from anti-tank systems to draw such conclusions?

The numbers of losses from ATGMs are classified ... how many and which ATGMs inflicted the greatest losses we will find out after the war ... I guess these are RPGs and Cornets ...
I haven’t seen normal videos of the use of Javelins ... they mostly hit RPGs of various modifications and Cornets with Stugnas again.
British MANPADS generally showed themselves poorly.
The breakdown of losses by tanks also requires clarification from which means of destruction they were destroyed or knocked out.
Mines, artillery, aviation, MANPADS, Molotov cocktails and others.
I would like to know the statistics on Swedish MANPADS.

[Napayz]

Do you know?

[Amateur]

is our MO either doesn't speak

your MO in Kyiv. And contact him.

[_Ugene_]

this is yours in Kyiv, slept?

[Rome]

Quote: _Ugene_

Do you know how many tanks we lost from anti-tank systems to draw such conclusions? n

According to both sides, the main losses in the NMD are caused by artillery, for the use of anti-tank systems it is necessary that the situation develops in battle the task of the tankers is to fight in such a way that there would be no convenient situations for the ATGM! Our tankers are quite competent fighters, so ATGMs, as battles show, are far from always ways to destroy a tank

[Konnick]

I thought the Javelins would prove themselves in battles according to the advertisements of the Americans ... but again the crooks cheated ... they promoted this weapon to the skies ... but the real result turned out to be so-so.

And don’t think too much ... the javelins have done their job, there are no tank breakthroughs, as with MANPADS, the actions of our attack aircraft are not particularly visible

[-TROMB-]

Perhaps the only adequate comment .. explains why the southern group is arming with the T-62 ... and where is the T-80 .. 90 ... maybe they hope to sell .. where are the tank breakthroughs?

[bayard]

Quote: -TROMB-

.where are the tank breakthroughs?

And where did you see energetic offensive operations and maneuver war starting from the 2nd month of the database? Everything has been switched to positional warfare with artillery breaking through the enemy's heavily echeloned defenses. And it could not have happened otherwise, because the outfit of forces for the NWO turned out to be categorically insufficient. Attacking an enemy that is 3-5 times superior in strength (in infantry) otherwise will not work in principle.

Quote: -TROMB-

Perhaps the only adequate comment .. explains why the southern group is arming the T-62 ..

Yes, simply because these T-62s ended up there - they were recently put into reserve and could be quickly returned to service to arm the new tank units of the Donbass republics.
And yes - incl. on the southern fronts, the main attacking force was the units of the republics of Donbass. Almost half of them are there.

Quote: -TROMB-

.where are the tank breakthroughs?

And why do we need tank breakthroughs if you (the Sumerians) are pulling your troops into the meat grinder to us? Where is it more rational to grind them (you?) with artillery in positional battles at the lowest cost.
And the loss of armored vehicles in the first phase ... so the attacking side always suffers heavy losses in equipment, especially during those very breakthroughs hundreds of kilometers away. And no matter how much of these losses were due to breakdowns on the march and from attacks from ambushes of columns and supply columns lagging behind the main forces. Many feathers have already been broken about this.
So the equipment and manpower of the Sumerians will be exterminated in positional battles (as well as by aircraft and missiles in the depths of the former Ukraine occupied by the Nazis), and then freshly mobilized formations of the RF Armed Forces will go on the offensive.
Are you in a hurry somewhere?

[-TROMB-]

Everything that you wrote in science is called the loss of initiative ... You are trying to justify this fact .. Ukraine is getting more and more new weapons ... Germany is preparing to supply medium-range mobile air defense .. America, shells for chimeras with a range of 300 km .. To the population of Ukraine weapons are issued .. a militia is being formed and trained .. Positional actions in this case will not lead to success .. In addition, there is talk of allowing private military companies to officially conclude contracts with Ukraine .. And what is the gain?

[bayard]

You were inattentive to reading.
Initially, the Russian Federation began the NMD with the forces of the regular army with a total strength of 100 thousand people. + about 60 thousand - corps of the republics. Russia did not mobilize and expected a coup in Kyiv with the beginning of the BD.
It was a trap, because even then, a year before the start of the NWO, the Sumerians increased the number of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by 100 thousand to 250 thousand available. Together with the National Guard, border troops and national battalions that became Terbats, it was about 500 - 600 thousand people.
The coup did not grow together and the second stage began.
Why was the first stage exactly like this - "spread fingers" everywhere and at once?
In order to cause maximum damage to the Armed Forces of Ukraine and disorientation, and most importantly, to disrupt the offensive in the Donbass, which was planned for early March.
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation confidently took the initiative into their own hands, and while the Sumerians defended Kyiv, a large group in Mariupol was surrounded and blocked. And not only surrounded, but also destroyed by seriously inferior forces. Our troops near Mariupol were much smaller, and only the approach of the Chechen volunteers somewhat leveled the potential difference.
Yes, our troops left the Kyiv, Chernihiv and Sumy regions. But immediately the attack on Severodonetsk and Lisichansk began. And it was very important.
Why
Because since the blocking of Mariupol not only Donetsk, but the entire Donetsk agglomeration and up to Mariupol ... have been left without water. And it was necessary to urgently take water intakes on the Seversky Donets and restore water supply.
And that's it. Since then, the war has acquired an exclusively positional character.

Quote: -TROMB-

.Positional actions in this case will not lead to success..

Here's how to look at things.
If we consider positional battles and slow assaults with an artillery offensive, then it seems that the initiative is being lost ... And if we look deeper?
It takes time to bring the SVO grouping to an acceptable size and composition. For there are no ready-made units, but (we don’t have mobilization and “won’t be”) those recruited under the contract must undergo combat coordination as part of at least battalions, increase the required number, receive weapons ...
In the meantime, all this is happening, the available forces on the fronts of the Northern Military District (this is approximately 80 - 120 thousand people) are exhausting the enemy in positional battles and battles of local importance. At the same time, inflicting on the enemy not just a multiple of large, but an order of magnitude large losses against their own.
The aviation and missile forces continue to work, removing infrastructure, military equipment and l / s ... through the correct (!) Disposal of old Soviet missiles and ammunition.
And now the time is coming.
Fresh, well-trained, motivated and equipped NWO forces ... are ready.

Quote: -TROMB-

.Germany is preparing to supply medium-range mobile air defense ..

Do not tell the old air defense officer, this is an analogue of our "Pantsir" with the maximum range of the first (still Soviet) "Buk-M1".

Quote: -TROMB-

.America, shells for chimeras with a range of 300 km ..

Right now, America swears that it has not sent and does not intend to send to / on missiles for the Chimera with a range of 300 km.

Quote: -TROMB-

.The population of Ukraine is given weapons .. a militia is being formed and trained.

From the first days so.
So what ?
These militias / mobilizers of territorial brigades show amazing resilience?
Once again - despite the multiple advantage in the number of l \ s of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, it conducts mainly defensive battles and retreats. All attempts at counterattacks and counteroffensives end in colossal losses and are leveled out.
And the referenda will be held soon. And in / on will lose 20% of their territories forever.
And the process will continue.

Quote: -TROMB-

.And what is the gain?

In time for the preparation of forces for a decisive offensive.
And don't forget that WINTER IS COMING.
How the Sumerian Kingdom will meet her and hold her, even Bandera does not know. And Europe...
Do not remember why the NWO started?
The Nazis wanted nuclear weapons.
And they still decided to capture the LDNR.
The US did not want to remove the NATO infrastructure at the turn of 1997!
Here.
Military-technical measures are being taken.

Quote: -TROMB-

.In addition, there are talks about allowing private military companies to formally conclude contracts with Ukraine.

Conclude.
Did you spend a lot of money?
Or do you think that I have a high opinion of their combat capability?

Quote: -TROMB-

Everything that you wrote in science is called the loss of initiative ..

No . This is called - achieving the goal with minimal cost.
And the denazification of Ukraine is not the goal.
And the remedy.

[-TROMB-]

Thanks for the answer ... It's always nice to argue with a person who is trying to convey his idea reasonably and without stupid bragging ... and yet I will try to defend my point of view. Why do I consider the main thing in this situation to be the loss of initiative? The question must be asked...does the West need a strong Ukraine with modern weapons, a trained army and an unsustainable regime in Europe? The answer is no .. Do we need Russia with imperial manners and claims to geopolitics? No .. Conclusion .. Ukraine will receive exactly as many weapons and resources as it needs to conduct defensive operations, but no more ... Depleting the resources of both countries in the conduct of a positional war .. only the West wins .. Unfortunately, the scenario of current actions is precisely such a .. Therefore, I put the initiative at the forefront ... I will be grateful for your opinion ...

[bayard]

In fact, stagnation on the fronts can be called the same way as you - the loss of initiative. I tried to explain that after the failure of the original plan for a coup, it could not have been otherwise - it was impossible to have available forces to continue offensive operations on such extended fronts, no reserves were provided.
Therefore, now we are witnessing essentially positional battles and, as they said in the Second World War, "battles of local significance."
Until sufficient forces are prepared for the offensive.
But the initiative is not given to the enemy either - any of his attempts to attack or impose his agenda are stopped and stopped.

Quote: -TROMB-

.Ukraine will receive exactly as many weapons and resources as it needs to conduct defensive operations, but no more ...

That's right.
And the Fifth and Sixth columns in the Kremlin towers will do everything to collapse the economy of the Russian Federation they created, prevent mobilization, and limit funding for the SVO and defense programs. And they are good at it.
But the formation of new formations is underway, the staff of existing ones is expanding, new ones are being created, "volunteer battalions" are being formed under the contract. And on the fronts, all the same republican corps are fighting, and units of the RF Armed Forces are brought in and out by rotation.
The only inconvenience of this positional phase is that the Donetsk agglomeration, as before, rests on the front line with its outskirts. And everything that can fly through the cities of Donbass flies.

But after all, the goal of the SVO is not "denazification / demilitarization" ... it is precisely a tool for achieving the goal set, fixed by the ultimatum of the end of last year. And not all goals are indicated in the ultimatum. Some of them began to be implemented in the very first weeks of the SVO - the abolition of the "Budget Rule" from the IMF and the World Bank, the decision to re-monetize the domestic economy from 40 to 70%, transfer payments for part of our exports to rubles ... This has been talked about for the last 20 years .. And immediately the answer went ... And the economies of the West began to crumble.
So this war is not for the Donbass and against fascism ... for the sake of this, the tower would not have moved a little finger, preferring to negotiate. This war is for the redistribution of power in the world, for the abolition of the enslaving obligations of the Yeltsin administration (1991-1993) to the Anglo-Saxon banksters.
At the same time, a ruble trade zone is being formed - a circle of countries with which trade is converted into national currencies and through the Russian settlement system "Mir". And it has already included Turkey, Iran, Egypt, India, partly China, Venezuela, and a number of countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America are next in line. The leading oil Arab countries are striving for this very much . They even came up with an initiative to Russia to form an International Organization independent of the dictates of the Anglo-Saxons, to replace the UN.
The world is transforming ... to the accompaniment of the war in / in the former Ukraine. And its (war) pace and course are subject to the general course of the processes of this transformation.
And summer ends...
Winter is coming .
The economies of Europe are systematically and aggressively turning into dust through the efforts of their own governments ...
The United States is preparing for the most severe financial and economic crisis, next to which the "Great Depression" will seem like child's play in the sandbox.
Will the Kremlin towers cope with the tasks, problems and challenges?
Ahura Mazda alone knows this.

[Lech from Android.]

tank breakthroughs are not observed

When everything in the district is mined and artillery barriers are installed, what kind of breakthroughs can there be ... what are you talking about?
I have not observed the massive use of javelins ...
MANPADS and caused damage to our aviation ... I do not deny it.

[Konnick]

When everything in the district is mined and artillery barriers are installed, what kind of breakthroughs can there be ... what are you talking about?

I? About nothing? It turns out that tanks are not needed if they can be stopped by stationary minefields and artillery barriers, also stationary? It is necessary to return the tanks to UralZavod, let them melt them down and make more guns and shells for them.

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: Konnick

It turns out that tanks are not needed if they can be stopped by stationary minefields and artillery barriers, also stationary?

It's not clear where you've gone...
Intelligence is needed normal ... reconnaissance drones.
And when the tank climbs through the ford and runs into mines twice ... well, excuse me, this is nonsense ... where is the engineer-sapper reconnaissance?

[Cympak]

When everything in the district is mined and artillery barriers are installed, what kind of breakthroughs can there be ... what are you talking about?

Artillery barriers must be destroyed by aircraft. And you can’t place mines everywhere and to the entire depth of defense. In addition, there have long been remote demining tools for making passages in minefields, for example, the UR-77 Meteorite.

[ultra]

Quote: Konnick

tank breakthroughs are not observed,

Should they have been?

[Cympak]

Should they have been?

As the experience of the Second World War, the Arab-Israeli conflicts, the Iraqi wars shows, tanks are needed to make breakthroughs and create boilers for the enemy

[Cympak]

I thought the Javelins would prove themselves in battles according to the advertisements of the Americans ... but again the crooks cheated ... they promoted this weapon to the skies ... but the real result turned out to be so-so.

Where do you get information about the real effectiveness of the Javelins? There are statistics on how many missiles were launched, how many of them hit the target, which ones caused damage?
If Javelins and other Western anti-tank systems are so ineffective, then answer me a simple question: why are our tank spearheads not advancing across the Ukrainian steppes at a speed of 100-200 km per day?

[Denis Minakov]

And the Russians in the battle against the Americans really want to die or something ?!

[Emergency]

Advertising is the engine of trade and you can’t fool you, you can’t sell.

[Cat Alexandrovich]

But Khodaryonok has already said! First!

[Vend]

When was it different? Russian weapons have always been the best. The superiority of Western weapons is a myth created by Hollywood.

[filibuster]

You shouldn’t engage in such hatred, no one has supplied Ukraine with modern air defense / missile defense systems, electronic warfare, aircraft, fleet, cruise missiles. In general, they were given quite a minimum: MANPADS, ATGMs, a few Soviet tanks, aircraft, quite a few modern MLRS systems, and as you can see, this turned out to be enough to relatively hold such a large front, to find forces somewhere to try to organize offensives.

[4ekist]

Khodaryonok debunks the myth about the vaunted Western weapons, which turned out to be not at all so formidable...

Did someone put the latest powerful weapon to the ukram? It hasn't come to that yet. And if it does, then this conflict will move into a qualitatively different phase.

[max702]

The question is different, what keeps the Armed Forces of Ukraine 2.5 thousand km front if, according to the reports of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, all artillery was destroyed twice, including deliveries from behind the hillock .. And another part of the artillery stands on the border with Belarus and Transnistria and in other places. Where does the 404th have so many workable artillery in reality? I have three options, the inaccuracy of the data before the SVO, the second is completely different volumes of deliveries by "partners", and the most likely third is a question for the reports of the General Staff of the Russian Federation ..

[bayard]

Quote: max702

The question is different than what keeps the Armed Forces of Ukraine 2.5 thousand km front if, according to the reports of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, all artillery was destroyed twice, including deliveries from behind the hillock ..

Parks, storage bases and warehouses of the THREE best Soviet military districts remained on the territory of the former Ukrainian SSR. And if Bandera sold a lot of tanks in 25 years of independence, then there is more than enough artillery left at the storage bases.
Ammunition?
Many warehouses were partly sold out and then burnt down to hide the monstrous shortages. Remember picturesque reportings from places of events? . And already during the 8-year war in the Donbass, ammunition depots continued to burn and explode. Plus, part of the strategic warehouses was destroyed or captured during the first weeks of the NWO. So there were interruptions in the supply of APU with 152 mm shells. caliber .
And yes - in the last years of normal Ukraine, a huge number of shells (and other b / n) were UTILIZED at enterprises in Ukraine at enterprises in Pavlograd and near Donetsk. The Americans demanded it.
As they demanded from Yanukovych and the disposal of 4 T-000 tanks.
It would be great if Janek then went to meet them and cut the tanks and artillery. But this did not happen.

Quote: max702

I have three options, the fallacy of the data to CBO,

Who reviewed this data? , if the whole bet was made on promoting the coup in Kyiv? The "Kremlin wise men" (not the military) had fantasies that they "agreed on everything." And that just one raid "with a heroic whistle" will be enough for the Polovtsy to flee.
(Blessed memory Oles Buzina in his works convincingly proved that it was the Polovtsians who were the ancestors of the "Ukrainians" of the middle and lower Dnieper region.)
The "wise men" had no plans for a serious war ... so they had to improvise on the go.
And the only right decision was chosen - to exhaust and destroy the enemy forces in positional battles with the forces of artillery, aviation and missile troops, and then with freshly mobilized and sufficiently trained forces to complete the defeat and denazification of the BU.
Of course with complete demilitarization.

Quote: max702

and the most likely third is a question for the reports of the General Staff of the Russian Federation ..

General Staff reports are based on objective monitoring data and radio interceptions of losses suffered by the enemy. And although nowhere is such a lie as in the war and after fishing, so far we have only these numbers and data.
By the way, losses in manpower of the Armed Forces of Ukraine underestimate both the Armed Forces themselves and the reports of the RF Ministry of Defense. And for obvious reasons - how not to twist our brains about "separate peoples", but we are really ONE people. The majority of the population of the Russian Federation in the former Ukraine has relatives, so huge numbers of real losses will be hidden and underestimated at times - this is too sensitive for all of us ... and this will raise questions - "How much did we lose then?" . And then you have to answer this question.
Because - neck "Secret".
But the estimated losses in / on only 200, even according to independent sources in the BU itself, give a figure - "about 200 thousand). And if one of the officials announced such a figure ... panic would begin in the families of military personnel ... and on both sides.

Quote: max702

what keeps the APU 2.5 thousand km front

With all its mobilized resource.
And why be surprised? After all, it is opposed by several times inferior in number to the enemy. But this enemy is much better and more equipped, has no problems with ammo and has a multiple mobilization potential.

[max702]

I'm not talking about the mobilized because this is meat, I'm talking about heavy weapons without which it is impossible to keep the front with the current database, but based on the briefings of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, ALL heavy weapons were destroyed by the enemy. That is, they have nothing to fight with, but they somehow howl, this dissonance irritates the most .. Someone is lying very much ..

[bayard]

Quote: max702

I'm talking about heavy weapons without which it is impossible to keep the front with the current database,

I wrote - in warehouses and storage bases they had thousands of guns of all calibers and types, from "Stalin's sledgehammers" in 203 mm. , up to 23 mm. ZUSEK.
They have problems with BC. It is because of the lack of 152 mm shells. they had to beg for 155 caliber NATO artillery. But the Bulgarians are throwing them up, and other former "Varsovians".

[stelltok]

all artillery was destroyed twice including supplies from over the hill.

Can you provide a link with a detailed analysis?

[max702]

Well here's the text
Since April 14, the forces of the Aerospace Forces, aviation, missile forces and artillery have hit 51 targets of the "accumulation or concentration of manpower, or strong point" class.
Since February 24, 98 bayraktars have been shot down.
9 American counter-battery radar stations were destroyed.

Since the beginning of the CBO in technology:
SAM: there were 403, there are 40 of our own
Armored vehicles: there were 5, there were 191 of their own left (at the same time, the initial number includes a thousand tanks in conservation, which in the conditions of the Ukrainians can speak of a complete absence, but I take the maximum)
According to the statistics of the Ministry of Defense, collected by comrade Ilya, points-y: there were 40, 18 remained

Ukraine must:
MLRS: there were 360, everything was lost, plus imported ones - 434
Art and mortars: there were 1600, everything was lost, plus imported - 1684
Aircraft: there were 174, everything was lost, plus imported - 90
Helicopters: there were 128, everything was lost, plus imported - 17
And you can check the numbers from the briefings of the RF Ministry of Defense.

[AnalystJack]

And what is the Ukrainian army fighting now, with bare hands or with sapper shovels?

[max702]

Quote from AnalystJack

And what is the Ukrainian army fighting now, with bare hands or with sapper shovels?

Actually..

[Sarmat Sanych]

Trapp1st, the real owners, controls it, and the entire power of the NATO satellite constellation and AWACS is also involved. They give out their maximum, but we use 10% of our capabilities, even with our (the only ones in the world, by the way) anti-satellite electronic warfare, their special equipment has not yet been paid off (December 2021 does not count), but the Peresvet BLK (the same ones with direct nuclear pumping of laser pulse up to 10 megawatts, "reactor-laser") was practically not used.
They (NATO) are studying us, so we have, if Tor works, then Tor-M1, if Buk, then Buk-M2. We are not using the Buk-M3 yet, we are mainly holding the Tor-M2 with 16 missiles, as well as the Altius, T-14, Pacer, Uragan-1M with a range of 200+ km, our most powerful and most effective in the world of electronic warfare and so on. They are studying the equipment that we will soon get rid of and switch to a more advanced one for easier destruction of NATO's military potential, therefore, through useful idiots, they develop cackling about "where the Armats are, where the electronic warfare" is: https://www.russiapost.su/archives/ 300205
When using 300-mm high-precision guided missiles 9M549 with a range of 120 km or corrected 9M55K1, with a range of 70 km and equipped with 5 self-aiming submunitions "Motiv-3M", "Tornado-S" and "Smerch" will easily deliver high-precision strikes against columns of Ukrainian armored vehicles and mobile installations of MLRS HIMARS. Why was the Antonovsky bridge damaged? The Ukrainian Armed Forces + NATO strained all their forces to do this, although the effect was modest. A night salvo of more than 12 M31A1 GMLRS guided missiles from two HIMARS mobile MLRS with the simultaneous launch of 10-16 "distracting" shells 9M27F / K "Hurricane" was still able to "oversaturate" the target channel of a small number of our S-300PM2 / 400 air defense systems located there and ZRPK "Pantsir-S1", ensuring a heap hit on the canvas of the Antonovsky bridge of at least 8 GMLRS shells. By the way, Poland transferred almost all of its weapons to Ukraine and turned out to be bled, the Poles are outraged:
https://www.russiapost.su/archives/300539
ZEUS + ROSS - Nuclear Station of the Solar System, global missile defense, the whole world will be defenseless before us, the rest of humanity will lag behind Russia for several decades: https://youtu.be/F7SaqC8uC14
https://youtu.be/sT0xikbH3EA
The Su-57s were combined into a single cyberspace and used for their intended purpose - the highest level inaccessible to the States with their F-35s:
https://youtu.be/DY6U4cfyZXA
"Snake" - a hypersonic DBK 6000 km with the corresponding indication and a speed of 8MAX - an event in history comparable only to the creation of an atomic bomb. This will make any NATO maritime doctrine meaningless. Good luck to Russian gunsmiths:
https://www.russiapost.su/archives/300211
The combat use of new modifications of the X-31 "Krypton" - the best in the world in its class:
https://www.russiapost.su/archives/298453
Msta-S in practice outperforms all Western howitzers, and "Coalition-SV" is generally out of reach of competitors:
https://youtu.be/bc73MFBiHr0

[2 Level Advisor]

Sergey, after reading your comment, thought that if you wish, you can justify and explain anything at all ... like: I know a secret strike, but I don’t use it in a fight so that no one knows how terrible it is, it’s not for a fight , and so that everyone thinks that he is .. it sounds somehow not very good, right?

[Konnick]

justify anything

we hold, like Altius, T-14, Pacer, Uragan-1M with a range of 200+ km,

Yeah, hold on to storm Berlin

[ultra]

Buk m3 has been working since the very beginning of the CBO.

[nickname7]

Su-57 united into a single cyberspace

Cyber ​​duper, you don't understand the difference between layout, one piece and mass production. 2 pieces of your Su-57 duper cyber is equal to 0 in real combat use.
It is necessary to count products of serial mass production, installed in the troops and on duty. There are no serial coils, no overexposure, no SU-57, no Almaty, so they are not used. The NWO uses T-72s, which were made by the thousands when there were no oligarchs.
You are a victim of propaganda, unable to understand this, and you vote and defend a rotten system.

But there really is something in the Russian Federation that you can boast of, but for some reason you are bashfully silent about it, or are you not up to speed again? Let me remind you this Forbes list with Russian billionaires, one Abramovich bought real estate in England for 9 yards and spent 4 yards more on Chelsea, so if he were taxed at 36,6%, as is customary in normal countries, it would be 4,7 yards $. 1 armata 400 mil rubles is at the rate of 66 6 million bucks 4,7 billion $ divided by $ 6 million it turns out 7800 armats, so many armats probably do not need enough 3 thousand, and to build an aircraft carrier for the rest, you can estimate the order of numbers -7800 armats of unpaid taxes is impressive. And from taxes on Usmanov's expenses, two hundred SU57 could be supplied, that would be an army.
Russia will not be able to resist the West until it has progressive taxation.

[kulemin0025gmail.com]

And they want, the owners then? It is not yet clear that they have such a desire.

[YarSer88]

According to the media, they are controlled by the real owners under the guise of mercenaries. A kind of Li-si-tsyn, only in the opposite direction. Another thing is that they are also used to working at training grounds, or on semi-trained crews in Syria and Iraq, and they are used against a full-fledged enemy for the first time. As, in fact, we are. Everyone is learning, shooting, analyzing. But the fact that a turning point has not yet happened clearly confirms that Western weapons are not so formidable.

[FoBoss_V]

And plus, when these owners will use the ENTIRE range of non-nuclear weapons available to them in full force. Therefore, I would not so categorically declare indiscriminately ... How does such hatred like the armor is strong and our tanks are fast, we remember very well from June 1941. It is necessary to work, long and hard, on a sword and shield for our homeland

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Trapp1st

So peremptorily, it will still be possible to say when the real owners will operate with these weapons.

Self-propelled guns M109, PzH-2000 - the Germans are the owners, what's next?

The winner of the tender was the Wegmann company, which signed a contract in 1996 for 185 self-propelled guns with an expansion of purchases to 410 units for the Bundeswehr. In practice, the Bundeswehr purchased 121 instances of self-propelled guns

The Bundeswehr did not rush to this colorful crap, because whatever the Germans do not undertake, they will always get the "Tiger" (weight 55t, weak chassis from the Leopard, for the most powerful 155 mm gun, with a barrel length like an anti-aircraft gun Everything powerful in one heap and it turns out long-range crap, not for combat, but from afar ), like our T-34 (Small frontal projections, limited internal volume, + cross-country ability and mobility, reliability).

[My doctor]

Quote: Trapp1st

So peremptorily, it will still be possible to say when the real owners will operate with these weapons

And in comparable quantities.

[Petr_Koldunov]

Quote: Trapp1st

Myths about the superiority of Western weapons are dispelled by the Russian NWO

So peremptorily, it will still be possible to say when the real owners will operate with these weapons.

Absolutely right! An example is Syria. The fact that the Syrians miss so many strikes on their targets does not mean at all that the Pantsir is a bad technique.

[megadeth]

I agree with the "gasket" ... no one canceled. +

[January]

Sounds very comforting. But not convincing. The same Khodarenok said that "Europe will not give mass equipment to the masses." Then "If it does, we won't let you take it." Then "If they do bring it, then nothing will really work because of the variety of colors." Now "If it happens, then not far and not much ..."
With all due respect, a person tries his best to "try to be in trend", but rarely hits ...

[poquello]

Quote: ian

Sounds very comforting. But not convincing. The same Khodarenok said that "Europe will not give mass equipment to the masses." Then "If it does, we won't let you take it." Then "If they do bring it, then nothing will really work because of the variety of colors." Now "If it happens, then not far and not much ..."
With all due respect, a person tries his best to "try to be in trend", but rarely hits ...

what will fly from a crab at 30?

[January]

Quote: poquello

what will fly from a crab at 30?

The exact answer to this will be given by tests of captured equipment at training grounds near Moscow.

[barclay]

For example, from the captured "Caesars"? For some reason they don't remember...

[January]

Quote: barclay

For example, from the captured "Caesars"? For some reason they don't remember...

But why. UVZ expressed official gratitude to Macron .
And then what to remember - "reverse engineering" in action ..

[barclay]

Quote: ian

UVZ expressed official gratitude to Macron

It looked... like a cheap show, sorry.
If you have already received a trophy, and speak loudly about it, then show it. Or maybe the French weren't allowed to show it?

[Konnick]

And then some artilleryman told him ...

[poquello]

Quote: poquello

Quote: ian

Sounds very comforting. But not convincing. The same Khodarenok said that "Europe will not give mass equipment to the masses." Then "If it does, we won't let you take it." Then "If they do bring it, then nothing will really work because of the variety of colors." Now "If it happens, then not far and not much ..."
With all due respect, a person tries his best to "try to be in trend", but rarely hits ...

what will fly from a crab at 30?

oh, and this is not for you, glitched, this is for

Quote: Trapp1st

So peremptorily, it will still be possible to say when the real owners will operate with these weapons.

[Negro]

On 40 regular M549 active-missiles

[poquello]

Quote: Negro

On 40 regular M549 active-missiles

let's talk about 40 when it will be about active-reactive), Chukchi writer?
"With a declared firing range of 30 kilometers conventional shells "Crabs" are used from distances half that - 15, at best, 17 .. "

[Negro]

Quote: poquello

With a declared firing range of 30 kilometers with conventional shells, "Crabs" are used from distances half that - 15, at best, 17 .. "

M549 is there, got on the video. There is also Excalibur, which hits 50+ - but I have not heard that the Crab is mated with this projectile. Caesar, M777 and paz2000 mated.
And as for 15-17 km, then option 2:
1. Khodarenok speaks the truth like Trotsky.
2. The former fraternal people do not know how to fight.

In principle, option 1 and option 2 are quite compatible.

[poquello]

Quote: Negro

2. The former fraternal people do not know how to fight.

)))))))))))))) exactly for sure, he puts the gun on its side, the evening of humor ended yesterday, you can talk about skill with a difference of five kilometers, but twice - this is how Trotsky declared the Poles, which is quite Poles tend to

[Negro]

In your opinion, the gunners cannot choose the wrong position? Too close to LBS?

[poquello]

Quote: Negro

In your opinion, the gunners cannot choose the wrong position? Too close to LBS?

can - once

[Negro]

Well, why not. D-30 only hits 15, D-20 hits 17,5. If the Crabs were 15 km from the front end, there is nothing so unusual in this ..

[poquello]

Quote: Negro

Well, why not. D-30 only hits 15, D-20 hits 17,5. If the Crabs were 15 km from the front end, there is nothing so unusual in this ..

) type under probable return fire is more interesting)))))))))))))))

[Negro]

Already discussed somewhere below or above. If you are conducting a counter-battery fight, then you will have to advance closer to the LBS - since the enemy artillery is also at a certain depth.

[poquello]

Quote: Negro

Already discussed somewhere below or above. If you are conducting a counter-battery fight, then you will have to advance closer to the LBS - since the enemy artillery is also at a certain depth.

what is LBS? ), 15-17 to the target, by the way, 17,5 for d20 is sighting range

[Negro]

Quote: poquello

kaka ta lbs

Battle line.

Quote: poquello

15-17 to goal

Arta, 15-17 km from the LBS, can work according to the alteration, but keep in mind the counter-battery fight - and therefore can be installed with a margin in range.

However, too long and detailed discussion of the next draft of the next telegram expert.

[poquello]

Quote: Negro

Quote: poquello

kaka ta lbs

Battle line.

Yes, not about that, 15 from LBS themselves came up with

[The leader of the Redskins]

And why were these fabrications filed in the "news" section?
At best, "opinions", but in no case "analytics" ...

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Both "opinions" and "analytics" should be combined into one section. And add a section "tactics and experience"

[antivirus]

But Burgundy is better than our Kuban ..
They will still win.
in newspapers and websites.

[poquello]

Quote: antivirus

But Burgundy is better than our Kuban ..

you’re somehow completely in vain, you drank camus for a breath - you didn’t lie next to Soviet Armenian cognac

[kulemin0025gmail.com]

On websites and in the bourgeois media - Russia is about to capitulate))

[dmi.pris1]

Of course, these weapons, albeit with overestimated characteristics, pose a threat to us. Weapons remain weapons.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: dmi.pris

A weapon remains a weapon

Guns don't kill, people do. It all depends on the calculation-guiding prefix.

[GNM]

Protracted wars are won by those who have their own resources and have established their own production of effective weapons and ammunition - the Second World War is proof of this.

[Negro]

And has the manual of the NWO to equate to the Second World War has already come out? Strongly.

[Heaven]

The author says that Western weapons are weak, because they did not bring a change at the front, and at the same time adds that the allies have an advantage in the number of artillery by 5-20 times. Is there a contradiction here? Probably it is possible to compare weapons in quality only with a more or less similar quantity.

[Negro]

Quote from Heaven

Is there a contradiction here?

Yes, but not the one you see.

The Ukrainian side (on paper) has superiority in range, accuracy and quality of control. Yes, the number of barrels is not enough to demolish Donetsk, but the issue of the quantitative superiority of the Russian Federation in artillery should have been closed.

The current situation raises justified questions to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[Shamil88]

The main advantage of NATO is aviation, they have more aircraft than the rest of the world put together, again hatred and underestimation of the enemy, air defense is also not a panacea for a massive attack of cruise missiles, of which NATO also has a huge number, it is necessary to speed up the production of fighters. And the worst thing is that the industrial, financial capabilities of the West and Russia are heaven and earth. Without nuclear weapons, they will overwhelm us with numbers.

[Prometey]

It seems that the aircraft once again give the primacy of the gods of war to artillery. The Air Force is very comfortable in the fight against countries that do not have an air defense system. But even such an adversary as Ukraine, which can periodically bite in the sky, does not make a desire to massively use aviation - there are too great reputational and material risks. That's why planes don't fly there.

[mmaxx]

Yes, and the current plane is a very expensive thing. And it takes a long time. Not long enough.

[Shamil88]

Because we have every aircraft on the account, the production volume is scanty, in two years we have built more fifth-generation fighters than we have 4 worships in 10 years of rearmament. They could not suppress the ancient one, like the eggs of an air defense mammoth hoh .. in 6 months. How are you going to confront NATO? We need a different economy and a different industry, but the country is led by those who ruined the economy and industry, without incurring any punishment for their failures and mistakes, they just change seats and further derbyat the treasury

[Cympak]

It seems that the aircraft once again give the primacy of the gods of war to artillery.

This is a cognitive fallacy caused by current CWO practice. If our Aerospace Forces had not shown their inability to suppress the thin air defense that they inherited from the USSR, then the NVO should have followed the patterns of the second war in Iraq and would already end.

[Prometey]

Quote: Cympak

This is a cognitive fallacy caused by current CWO practice.

Artillery interacting with UAVs is experiencing a rebirth. This is much cheaper than aviation, and in terms of accuracy it is not much inferior to aviation. The fact of the matter is that aviation is needed to destroy the enemy's infrastructure, as was the case in Iraq and Yugoslavia - to hit important economic targets. And for striking at places where the enemy is congested. On principle, Russia is not waging a war in Ukraine along the lines of Iraq and Yugoslavia. It was precisely the civilian infrastructure that was knocked out there in parallel with the military one. And there was no air defense as a system in those countries. That is why it seemed that aviation is so omnipotent and invincible.

[Cympak]

Artillery interacting with UAVs is experiencing a rebirth. This is much cheaper than aviation, and in terms of accuracy it is not much inferior to aviation.

All right. The role of artillery has grown significantly due to the WTO and UAVs, but for the strategic isolation of the battlefield, attacks on key infrastructure facilities of the enemy (airfields, factories, power plants) and the political leadership, aviation is still needed. Arta is not getting there yet, and hitting the KR and OTRK at airfields and other spatially dispersed objects is not economically feasible.

On principle, Russia is not waging a war in Ukraine along the lines of Iraq and Yugoslavia.

This is the main mystery of the NWO, contrary to all military theories and common sense.

there was no air defense as a system in those countries.

In Ukraine, all the object air defense was inherited from the collapse of the USSR (it is already 30 years old). These are fairy tales that they cannot suppress him, rather, they do not want to.

That is why it seemed that aviation is so omnipotent and invincible.

Air defense is a weapon of defense; in principle, it is not capable of providing initiative in the theater of operations and, as a result, victory.

It was precisely the civilian infrastructure that was knocked out there in parallel with the military one.

Without electricity, both the military plant and the water pumping station, which provides water supply to the city, will not work. Anyway.
What Alexander Suvorov said about such sentimentality:

In essence, there is nothing more harmful, and even more - no one can be as cruel as sentimental people are harmful and cruel as a result of their actions. A person who loves his neighbors, a person who hates war, must finish off the enemy so that another war does not start after one.

And Clausewitz confirmed his thoughts:

Kind-hearted people may, of course, believe that there is some original way to disarm and defeat the enemy without shedding much blood, they are also free to think that this is precisely the true achievement of the art of war. It sounds attractive, but in fact it is a hoax that needs to be discovered. War is an extremely dangerous business in which the worst mistakes come from kindness.

[Prometey]

Quote: Cympak

Air defense is a weapon of defense; in principle, it is not capable of providing initiative in the theater of operations and, as a result, victory.

Air defense - as a separate type of weapon - yes. But we are talking about an air defense system - which, in addition to radar and launchers, includes fighter aircraft. There is no air defense as a system in Ukraine, but there is air defense - therefore, our command probably considers it inappropriate to risk aircraft.

Quote: Cympak

This is the main mystery of the NWO, contrary to all military theories and common sense.

Someday we will find out what was the logic of such actions. Although, in general, they had every right to hit air targets - reconnaissance UAVs in neutral space - the United States, in principle, would not have done anything about it, as well as rail trains in the border areas.

[Cympak]

There is air defense - therefore, our command probably considers it inappropriate to risk aircraft.

This speaks of the competence of the command, which did not bother to study the experience of hostilities in recent decades and is not able to understand the thought of Suvorov and Clausewitz. What do you want when the VKS is commanded by a tank general.
The problem of air defense is solved by concentrating the necessary set of funds in the right direction. A vivid example is the 1982 Israeli operation "Medvedka-19", as a result of which the layered air defense system built by the Syrians according to Soviet patterns in the Bekaa Valley was defeated.
First, a wave of drones to reveal the location of the air defense and spend their ammo.
Then a complex attack by aviation and missile systems on the identified air defense positions.

[My doctor]

Quote: Prometey

On principle, Russia is not waging a war in Ukraine along the lines of Iraq and Yugoslavia. It was precisely the civilian infrastructure that was knocked out there in parallel with the military one. And there was no air defense as a system in those countries. That is why it seemed that aviation is so omnipotent and invincible.

If you were right, then with a high probability the infrastructure facilities used in the interests of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were hit by heavy bombs, and not by expensive missiles with small warheads that did not allow them to complete their tasks. On a well-known example, when several missiles were fired on the bridge to no avail, you will not argue that there was no task to damage the bridge.

[Negro]

Quote: Prometey

It seems that the aircraft once again give the primacy of the gods of war to artillery.

The parties to the conflict (yet) do not have modern aviation. Even modern by the standards of '91.

Although some progress has begun to appear, it seems.

[DominickS]

Yes, and I would not particularly count on nuclear. Leaving aside the fact that its use is a guaranteed star, one can soberly note that NATO and the United States have more nuclear weapons, respectively, and more chances to deliver a disarming strike.

[Prometey]

Quote: DominickS

that NATO and the United States have more nuclear weapons carriers

It's about nothing. Russia will be able to survive a strike of 50 missiles, Britain and France - guaranteed - no. More or less - it no longer plays a fundamental role.

[Negro]

And what makes you think that only 50 will arrive? By the way, what does "Russia will survive" mean?

[kor1vet1974]

It would be even easier if there were no arms deliveries, from the word at all.

[tralflot1832]

But for Egypt it costs 21 pieces, SU 35.

[Iris]

both the pilots and the technical staff have already been trained. But at the last moment, the Americans only raised a finger - and a mustache. Now it seems they want to sell the Pepelats to the Iranians. This will be smart!

[rotmistr60]

At first, plans to gain superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the battlefield thanks to the “invulnerable” Bayraktars and powerful Javelins collapsed ... Then the turn came to other “Western gifts” - the German self-propelled guns PzH-2000 and the Polish self-propelled howitzers KRAB

We also prayed at three 7 and today at HIMARS. It is clear that any weapon poses a threat to the opposite side. But to bet, as in Ukraine, on certain samples, and even more so foreign ones, with the help of which "the enemy will certainly be defeated" is not only stupid, but also criminal in relation to one's armed forces.

[gromit]

"The allied forces have a five-fold, and in some areas a twenty-fold advantage in artillery over the Armed Forces of Ukraine." Why then does it take two weeks to take each village?
Dominance in the air, multiple superiority in artillery ....
The Ukrainian infantry should already drop everything and run.
Military correspondents whistle like Solovyov.

[Konnick]

Military correspondents whistle like Solovyov.
Another from one "warrior"

I was going to the position through the village - towards me on foot the brigade commander of the Russian airborne brigade. Then he explained - he went to church to light candles. I arrive at the positions at the common command post - there is a deputy brigade commander of the same brigade with a rosary in his hands and a small cardboard icon, the edge of which sticks out of the pocket of a bulletproof vest ... And this happens all the time.

This is from Khodakovsky, who does not like the fact that the monuments to Lenin are being restored.
I’m commenting ... Khodakovsky drives a silver Gelendvagen, he may have squeezed it out, well, he didn’t earn it. I wouldn’t dare to show off like that in a war zone ...
If our military turns out to consult with God before making a decision, and even light candles Or is it a fairy tale from Khodakovsky or is it really that bad? I hope that Khodakovsky propagandized this ... mind you, by the way, "a brigade commander is coming" and, as in a joke, "a parachute is dragging behind him." The brigade commander will not walk so easily. Imagine a colonel or general came, alone and without guards, to light a candle in the church ... some kind of surreal.

[malyvalv]

There are no atheists in the trenches.

[Konnick]

There are no atheists in the trenches.

Crazy phrase...
Only someone, under bombing or shelling, prays, falling to the bottom of the trench, smearing snot and urinating under himself. And someone with matyuks digs a trench deeper. At the moment of danger, you don’t think about God, there is no time, you need to conquer your fear.

[malyvalv]

Crazy phrase...

That makes it no less relevant. Did you personally dig a trench with the matyugs during the bombing?

[zombirusrev]

Come on, set an example...

[Konnick]

Come on, set an example...

Who are you contacting? And about what, nothing is clear.

[ultra]

So put together a battle group and go ahead to storm the enemy fortifications.

[Prometey]

Quote from Gromit

Why then does it take two weeks to take each village?

Because the infantry is limited and it is better to go to occupy a deserted lunar landscape during the week than a crowd of pillboxes. Or not?

[gromit]

Good tactic. Where did the civilian population of this lunar landscape go?

[Konnick]

Well, if there is authority for VO Khodarenok ... there are no words. Then let's destroy Nata. And then I’m already tired of trampling around Avdiivka for half a year ...

[Konnick]

Or they are simply destroyed by our artillery and VKS.

Did the gunners tell Khodarenko too?
Simply ... elementary simply

[TEX-50]

Khodaryonok, is this a chick from Satanovsky's nest? Noble hutspogon, no worse than Kedmi! For money, everything that Hosh tells you!

[Cympak]

Mikhail Khodarenok (former Head of Group 1 of Direction 1 of the Main Operational Directorate of the General Staff) spoke very objectively before the NMD and predicted many of the things that unexpectedly for the Admiral Generals of the RF Ministry of Defense we encountered after the start of the NMD. He even once made a scandal on the air with Skobeeva with his statements, which disagreed with the opinion of propagandists on the salary.
But then he apparently had to choose either a salary or an objective opinion

[Alexey-74]

Soviet-Russian weapons have always been the best, our artillery is recognized by everyone, and as for manufacturability, which is now in trend, there are many factors in real databases, and above all reliability, and ours are slowly developing modern types of weapons. In a word, advertising and PR in the course of the database turns out to be just a "balalaika".

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Russia's superiority in firepower negated any military assistance. Songs about the indestructible Western "wunderwaffe" in the Ukrainian language are gradually fading away

Myths about the superiority of Western weapons are dispelled by the Russian NWO

Hooray! Hooray! There's a hole in the op!
Yes, Russia is crushing with might (however, it has not yet crushed it), but the myths have not been dispelled for sure.
It would be necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff, and not to chime ahead of time.

[Altmann]

Friends, how do you rate? Are you fighting there? Or, like me, you're just trying to understand.
One thing is certain. Ukrainians do not use high-quality Western weapons well, but on the other hand, there are high-quality soldiers of the Russian army with good weapons and they can deal with Ukrainians. Glory to the Russian army.

[Voenoboz]

And we have no doubt that we will crush this hydra.

[Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers]

And what about the Chimeras, comrade Khodaryonok?

[nonsense]

In addition, the enemy does not have enough ammunition, and the foreign guns themselves break down too quickly due to intensive use.

Entogo Khodarenko is not in order with logic. Would you at least decide what with these guns - "intensive use" or "ammunition is not enough"? - You have to pick one...
Well, the “five-fold”, and even more so “twenty-fold” superiority of Russian artillery and multi-day battles for every village in the Donbass also somehow don’t fit ... From here, only two logical conclusions can be drawn: a) there is no such huge superiority; b) Russian gunners are no professional, since they cannot realize such an advantage ... Is the author pushing us to this conclusion?

[TatarinSSSR]

To be honest, I have never heard an article or a statement anywhere about "the latest Western weapons that cannot be killed." On the contrary, there is a lot of criticism in the same German media about the latest artillery and so on. They say the weapon is accurate, but complex and not reliable. In terms of range, I’ll believe it only when a serviceable Polish or German self-propelled guns are placed at the firing range and will be fired from it under the control of inspectors at this very range. And not the arguments and words of the captives, who all of a sudden turn out to be totally mobilized cooks and doctors. But on the whole I agree - Russian weapons quite kill and destroy themselves, as they should. Especially in the hands of professionals.

[Mikhail Maslov]

Somewhat unprofessional. It depends on how you look. Intelligence, UAVs, anti-ship missiles, aviation is still flying, and the statement itself (I don’t know whose, the author or Khodorenka) with the advantage of 3-5 times the art sorry and where is our advantage. Then it’s a large number of anti-tank systems forced our command to abandon tank breakthroughs, as it was at the beginning of the war. About the "zoo" of all kinds of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, the same thing makes the Armed Forces of Ukraine mobile. The main thing is in whose hands. That is, either a monkey with a Javelin or a trained specialist. Even more interesting, and who is planning a military operation, is far from Ukrainians. So it turns out that the use of Western "military technologies" in Ukraine is quite serious and, unfortunately, decisive. So, we will sing brave songs after the Victory. But to study and analyze necessary.

[withoutreverse]

Yes .. it was once debunked by CBO! And she glorified someone, everything is known on the battlefield!

[DominickS]

I don’t think that our guys, for whom the pigs were bastards from nlavs, karl-gustavs, stugs and stingers, would be similar to this opinion. NATO intelligence has fully proved its effectiveness. The Hymars have clearly proven that even conventional MLRS, used individually, can create problems if given accurate target designation. Many people are also aware of the situation with communication.
So, I would be careful not to throw hats until the pig farmer signed his surrender.

[filibuster]

In my opinion, the SVO showed exactly one turn, the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not supply modern air defense, electronic warfare, aircraft, tactical and cruise missiles, and with all this, they somehow keep the front longer than 1 thousand km, even Avdiyivka has not yet been taken.
If there were no nuclear weapons in the world or if it were 100% protected from it, then in the current scenario, the entire NWO would have ended along the border of present-day Russia and with the loss of Crimea, if NATO had joined even 20% of its capabilities. World War II was a war of motors, and now it is a war of very expensive motors.

[Foul skeptic]

Military observer Mikhail Khodarenok debunks the myth of vaunted Western weapons

And who is Mikhail Khodarenok to be able to give a correct assessment? I see
1) that quality is judged by quantity

The allied forces have a five-fold, and in some areas a twenty-fold advantage in artillery over the Armed Forces of Ukraine. In addition, the enemy does not have enough ammunition

2) do not understand the difference between technical and practical rate of fire

According to technical data, it should be six shots per minute.

3) do not give sufficient evidence for their words

According to our gunners, Polish self-propelled guns turned out to be long-range guns only on paper. With a declared firing range of 30 kilometers, conventional shells "Crabs" are used from distances half that

The Crab has the same trunk as, say, Caesar. From Nexter. Shells in NATO are the same - the JBMoU standard. Therefore, why OFdMKM suddenly began to fly twice as close is inexplicable.

[Negro]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Therefore, why OFdMKM suddenly began to fly twice as close is inexplicable

Well, technically it's easy to explain - the gunners put it 15 kilometers from the LBS. In principle, if the task is to work against enemy artillery, which is also located 15-20 km from the LBS on the other side, then you can’t put it further.

[Foul skeptic]

I would also explain it this way, if not for one thing - the article hints at an estimate of the range not of the infantry from the front line, but of the gunners themselves, against whom the counter-battery fight is being waged. Well, even with the situation you described, he still didn’t fly twice as close - 15 + 15 = 30

[Negro]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

even with the situation you described, he still didn’t fly twice as close - 15 + 15 = 30

And why would he fly closer?

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

article hints

It is rather strange to discuss such statements of telegram channels. But technically, if the counter-battery systems begin to work directly on the limber, 10-15 km will be.

[pogis]

Quote: max702

The question is different, what keeps the Armed Forces of Ukraine 2.5 thousand km front if, according to the reports of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, all artillery was destroyed twice, including deliveries from behind the hillock .. And another part of the artillery stands on the border with Belarus and Transnistria and in other places. Where does the 404th have so many workable artillery in reality? I have three options, the inaccuracy of the data before the SVO, the second is completely different volumes of deliveries by "partners", and the most likely third is a question for the reports of the General Staff of the Russian Federation ..

Report on 23.06.22/2088/24.06.22 3002 guns and mortars were destroyed, report on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX already XNUMX guns and mortars. Why should they pity their basurman!

[Cympak]

With the same success, we can talk about 100500+ destroyed guns and mortars. This is all propaganda, not confirmed by documentary control.
For example, after the Great Patriotic War, it turned out that, according to official reports, more Tigers were destroyed by the Red Army fighters than were produced in Germany during the entire war.

[Bolt cutter]

more "Tigers" were destroyed than were released

The Germans repaired them and they again went into battle, where they were again knocked out.

[decimalegio]

Languages ​​have their own beauty, which official relations tend to forget in order to pursue goals other than grammar and syntax. A thing is destroyed when it is destroyed, irreversibly destroyed. If it can be repaired, then it is not destroyed, but only damaged. I don't know if this is true in Russian. If you say that you destroyed 50 wagons, in Italian it would mean that they are all irretrievably lost. Otherwise, if they can be repaired, they are damaged. It is suggestive when numbers of dead adversaries are given on both sides ... "the missile hit and 333 enemies were killed ...." with accuracy. Are there secret accountants who go around counting deaths?????

[JonnyT]

at what? NATO in shock and has no analogues in the world?)))

If you soberly analyze, then Western weapons are inferior only in quantity and complexity for conducting maintenance, for NATO systems there is no corresponding infrastructure in Ukraine (so far).

There is no need to pour matzo into the ears of Russians

[Iris]

Wah, well said! Matzah should be eaten on Shabbat! It's not for nothing that they call each other Jews!

[Uprun]

There will be no victory on foreign weapons ... Victory is forged in the rear, the Second World War is an example for everyone .... There are handouts today, tomorrow there are none, and the whole world is with us - for the domestic consumption of farmers.

[Fitter65]

... the turn came to other "Western gifts" - German self-propelled guns PzH-2000

In the title photo in this perspective, it resembles the "modernized" Ferdinand-Elephant. The Nazis had such a child prodigy ...

[Iris]

Khodarenok is a distinguished specialist. I remember how he confused S-75 and S-125 on TV. Expert, fuli

[Kostadinov]

It is high time to finish the fairy tales about the wunderwaffe and get busy with the number of troops and weapons.

[Cympak]

Eh, to collect all the urya-patriots, the witnesses of the "analogue" and hat-throwers and near Avdeevka ....

[Rage66]

Quote: Cympak

With your jingoistic dibilism, you should go to the front, where it is quickly treated

The front won't help you either.

[Sedoy]

Khodarenok debunks the myth

another myth-fighter from the series "and you have blacks being lynched" ...
"Maybe it's better - about the reactor?
About your favorite lunar tractor? ©
---
- Misha, what do you have to say for us?
- So yeah...

[Deep Diver]

Uh-huh. Another captivating article

[Dedok]

Myths about the superiority of Western weapons are dispelled by the Russian NWO

where are the myths?
if we don't have simple, wearable walkie-talkies on the battlefield...
and keep listing...
in the photo is a German self-propelled gun - intelligence is transmitted to it by a radio by a spotter: like right and left ??? - and you say - myths ...

[decimalegio]

There is no Western weapon superior to Russian and vice versa. There are only weapons that are better than others. The effectiveness of NATO-supplied anti-tank systems is evidenced, as another colleague has already pointed out, by the fact that there are no maneuvers of armored formations on the Ukrainian plains. It all comes down to a war of attrition with artillery. And this is not tactics, but the absence of any tactics.
Each block has its own strengths, a few dozen Himar were enough to cause problems.

[vova1973]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Trapp1st

Judging by the data of objective control, the result of the use of javelins is very sad for armored vehicles.

And where was objective control carried out, at the training ground or on the battlefield? Specify the effectiveness of these anti-tank systems on the battlefield, as far as I remember back in the spring, the Americans said that they had delivered several times more "Spears" than Russia's tanks, the summer is ending, and Russia's tactics are still not ending ...

because tanks are not substituted for Javelins.

[Negro]

Hm. Previously, Khodarenok was sane. Reforged.

[28st region]

What can be the superiority. They may have superiority in electronics, but no more. The rest is all the same.