What happens if an anti-tank grenade launcher is fired at a BMD

144
Source: zen.yandex.ru

Source: zen.yandex.ru


It's no secret that not all military equipment is equipped with steel or combined armor. An example of this is airborne combat vehicles, the main part of which is made of an aluminum-based alloy. Despite its low density, it can provide a reasonable level of protection. But what will happen if an anti-tank grenade arrives at the BMD? After all, it seems that in this case, aluminum armor can turn from a defender into a killer of its crew.



BMD-4M. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

BMD-4M. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

When do cumulative projectiles become powerful?


Of course, the reader may ask a very logical question: what does the cumulative means of destruction have to do with it if the BMD armor does not provide for their hit. This is true, and there is no point in arguing here - the protection is actually bulletproof and anti-fragmentation, which is explained by severe restrictions on the mass of the vehicle for the possibility of landing by parachute.

However, bulletproof armor does not mean at all that a cumulative grenade or rocket will never fly by technology. The experience of recent military conflicts, as well as the ongoing special operation in Ukraine, shows that the infantry of a potential enemy can literally be oversaturated with light portable anti-tank weapons. So the probability of getting an armor-piercing gift is, and very high.

In addition, cumulative ammunition, despite the high armor penetration rates, in general, compared to sub-caliber projectiles, is considered weak in terms of armor impact on the crew and internal equipment of the vehicle. This is explained by the fact that the cumulative jet, having broken through thick armor, forms a relatively small amount of lethal secondary fragments, and it itself, breaking into fragments, inflicts limited damage due to the small angle of their expansion.

BMD-3. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

BMD-3. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

Hence the numerous storieswhen a tank received a dozen (sometimes up to twenty) hits by rockets or grenades, but on its own and without significant injuries reached ours. This does not mean that none of the shells penetrated the armor - just a cumulative jet and a few fragments did not damage anything critical.

But with light protection - in our case, aluminum - everything changes dramatically. No, the cumulative jet itself does not acquire any superpowers. Everything is much more banal: fragments come to the fore in terms of the damaging effect. The fact is that with a high-speed impact on a thin armor plate, an anti-tank grenade partially breaks through it with its body. In combination with the subsequent detonation of the shaped charge, a huge amount of secondary fragments is created from the armor and, on a smaller scale, from the grenade itself. Flying into the vehicle with a wide angle of flight, they literally mow down the crew and troops, as well as break the internal equipment and can cause a fire if the fuel tanks are damaged.

Let's consider this issue in more detail.

BMD-2. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

BMD-2. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

Experiment conditions


Data on really real combat damage to the BMD is probably only available to the military, armored vehicle designers and some experts. But to study the behavior of thin armor when penetrated by an anti-tank grenade, we will not need them, since there are declassified results of shell tests of armor plates made of this material, which were carried out back in Soviet times, in the public domain.

The shooter fires from the RPG-7. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

The shooter fires from the RPG-7. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

Their conditions are quite simple. At the site, sheets of armored aluminum with a thickness of 40 mm and 68 mm were installed, which will be even stronger than the main protection of the BMD. They were fired upon with cumulative SPG-9 grenades, and also carried out their stationary detonation directly at the armor in order to evaluate the fragmentation flow without affecting the grenade flight speed. Anti-tank grenades of the world-famous RPG-7 were also used.

Behind the armor plates at a distance of 1,2 meters, three aluminum screens were fixed one after another. The first of them had a thickness of 0,5 mm, and the other two - 3 mm each. The distance between them was 40 mm.

SPG-9 easel grenade launcher. Source: technolirik.livejournal.com

SPG-9 easel grenade launcher. Source: technolirik.livejournal.com

This design made it possible to determine the penetration ability of the fragments and distribute them according to their lethality. For example, if a fragment could only penetrate a 0,5-mm screen, then it is capable of inflicting injury, including severe injury. Fragments that have pierced a 0,5 mm screen and the next 3 mm screen are almost XNUMX% likely to kill a person if they hit vital organs. And finally, fragments that break through all three screens are considered the most dangerous and can destroy the internal equipment of the machine and cause a fire.

shelling


First of all, it is interesting to consider the effect of anti-tank grenades without taking into account their flight speed, that is, in a stationary detonation. The fragmentation flow formed by the armor and their hulls was distributed as follows.

The detonation of RPG-7 and SPG-9 grenades near a 40 mm thick aluminum armor sheet gave the following results:

The number of fragments capable of injuring the crew and landing troops averaged from 200 to 300 pieces. The angle of their expansion is 65–68 degrees.

There were fewer fragments capable of killing a person - about twenty, depending on the experience number. The angle of expansion was less than 10 degrees.

The most lethal fragments, which can break equipment and start a fire, were in the minority. Less than five pieces at an angle of expansion of 2-4 degrees.


To determine the effect of grenade speed (no more than 450 m / s) on the number of fragments, only SPG-9 was chosen as the fastest grenade launcher:

Like last time, the number of fragments that can inflict injuries up to the most severe ones ranged from 200 to 300 pieces with the same expansion angle of 65-68 degrees. At the same time, the thickness of the armor plate itself - at least 40 mm, at least 68 mm - did not affect anything.
There were about 40 more penetrating fragments from a 60-mm aluminum plate that could kill, with an angle of expansion up to 40 degrees. A plate with a thickness of 68 mm turned out to be a tougher nut - 30 fragments with a spread of 20 degrees.

The most lethal fragments were again in the minority. There were 40 of them from a 15-mm armor plate, and the expansion angle was 20 degrees. The 68 mm aluminum sheet, as expected, held better: 10-12 fragments with a spread of 3-4 degrees.


Conclusions


The experiment clearly confirmed that, no matter how paradoxical it may sound, the basis of the foundations of a cumulative ammunition - a cumulative jet - literally turned out to be safer than the armor itself. If the nature of its penetration into light armor barriers as a whole vaguely resembles a puncture with a large needle with a relatively small amount of “splash” (fragments separated from the jet), then the secondary fragmentation stream from the impact and explosion of a grenade resembles a shot from a huge shotgun.

Of course, its power is largely determined by the speed of the attacking projectile, but even a stationary detonation shows depressing results. And in no case should we forget anti-tank missiles, in which there are much more explosives than in a grenade - in this case, the consequences can be much worse.

Fragments flying into the car, of which, as we see, there may be several hundred pieces, can seriously injure and kill paratroopers and crew. This is complemented by a wide angle of their expansion, which necessarily affects the number of victims and the scale of equipment damage.

How can the current situation be corrected? There are two options here.

The first is screens, and not necessarily solid ones - ordinary gratings are also suitable. Undermining a grenade or rocket (and gratings can also destroy PG-7 grenades without an explosion) at a distance will not break through the armor, and therefore the fragmentation flow will be reduced ten times.

The second way is to install an anti-shatter lining made of durable fabric. It will not only significantly reduce the number of penetrating fragments, but will also be useful in protecting against bullets.

PS


There is no need to discriminate against aluminum or BMD.

Firstly, the problem of breaking armor and a large number of fragments is also characteristic of steel armored hulls.

Secondly, other light combat vehicles of different classes and different nationalities also suffer from this.
144 comments
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  1. +8
    11 August 2022 05: 05
    Booking BMD-4 was not designed to hold grenade launcher shots

    This is included in the performance characteristics of the machine
    1. +6
      11 August 2022 06: 07
      There is no need to discriminate against aluminum or BMD.
      An important caveat, the author is well done.

      installation of anti-shatter lining made of durable fabric
      Modern fabrics are both strong and quite light and fire resistant, although expensive. But the landing force is an elite, and you can spend money!
      1. 0
        29 October 2022 14: 18
        The recipe here from fragments, as in the armor of hedgehog tanks, will be saved only by a layer of multi-layer combined armor with lining from ballistic fabrics. High-density polyethylene between layers of armor protects against Hash shells better than any lining. There are recipes for a happy and long life for soldiers, but this is not about our bureaucrats in the Moscow Region who, along with the Ministry of Finance, are in no hurry to write off unnecessary projects of all floating and flying armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and self-propelled guns. Vicious circle
        1. 0
          29 October 2022 14: 31
          Quote: insafufa
          unnecessary projects of all floating and flying armored personnel carriers, armored personnel carriers and self-propelled guns.

          Such a technique is needed, no matter what you think. Read the rationale in the article on the future of the Airborne Forces.
          https://topwar.ru/203729-reforma-vdv-v-svete-opyta-boev-na-ukraine-i-predshestvujuschih-vojn-shtatnaja-struktura.html
    2. +5
      11 August 2022 07: 18
      Quote: Santa Fe
      Booking BMD-4 was not designed to hold grenade launcher shots

      The very title of the article is in the style and style of British science:
      "What happens if you put your bare hand in concentrated hydrochloric acid?" wink
      1. 0
        11 August 2022 17: 02
        What happens if you put your hand in acid? laughing
        1. +2
          11 August 2022 17: 07
          Quote: Sergey Tankist
          What happens if you put your hand in acid?

          Six more will grow!
          Be an octopus! wink
          1. 0
            12 August 2022 18: 30
            Checked?
            1. 0
              13 August 2022 04: 01
              On Thursdays!
      2. 0
        15 August 2022 17: 25
        It depends on how long the hand is in the acid. It is more dangerous (and more interesting!), to put it in a concentrated alkali, for example, in NaOH, KOH. Acid tans, and alkali dissolves protein. Your hand dissolves into alkali, like sugar in hot water!
  2. +9
    11 August 2022 05: 23
    Not every tank can withstand a hit from a grenade launcher ...
  3. +5
    11 August 2022 05: 26
    Getting into any AFV, whether it be a tank, infantry fighting vehicle, bmd, self-propelled guns .. does not bode well, for which the analysis is not clear. And BMD, in general, has strict weight restrictions. An article from empty to empty, time after time.
    1. +13
      11 August 2022 06: 08
      Quote: igorka357
      An article from empty to empty, time after time.

      No, the article is valuable at least from the description of the test methodology!
      1. -14
        11 August 2022 06: 46
        Tests for the sake of writing articles, what do you notice once again proving that the majority of the landing force and the crew of the khan? What for? The shield is very far behind the sword, and he can no longer catch up, except perhaps with active defense. In our Armed Forces, it is unfortunately not practiced.
        1. +8
          11 August 2022 07: 07
          Quote: igorka357
          Tests for the sake of writing articles, what do you notice once again proving that the majority of the landing force and the crew of the khan?

          Yes, at least for the selection of an alloy of armor or the thickness and weight of the lining. But you keep thinking trials are stupid.
          1. +1
            11 August 2022 11: 05
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Yes, at least for the selection of an alloy of armor or the thickness and weight of the lining. But you keep thinking trials are stupid.

            In my opinion, any idea can be brought to the point of absurdity.
            What happens if an anti-tank grenade launcher is fired at a BMD

            And what will happen if an infantryman who is wearing a bulletproof vest is fired from a grenade launcher? measure the size of the fragments that flew out of the bulletproof vest, and at what angles ...
            1. +2
              11 August 2022 12: 27
              Quote: Bad_gr
              In my opinion, any idea can be brought to the point of absurdity.
              Well, probably, but in general the author does not describe the shelling of the BMD at all! laughing
              At the site, sheets of armored aluminum with a thickness of 40 mm and 68 mm were installed, which will be even stronger than the main protection of the BMD.

              Quote: Bad_gr
              And what will happen if an infantryman who is wearing a bulletproof vest is fired from a grenade launcher? measure the size of the fragments that flew out of the bulletproof vest, and at what angles ..

              Starting to read the article, I also wanted to sarcastically ask the author about this, hi but at the end I saw a disclaimer: It is not necessary to discriminate aluminum or BMD. and the desire to be sarcastic was gone.
              1. +2
                11 August 2022 14: 26
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                There is no need to discriminate against aluminum or BMD.

                With this I agree. Anyone who was interested in this topic knows that with the same armor resistance, aluminum armor, although thicker, is lighter in weight (or, in other words, with the same weight, aluminum armor has greater armor resistance than steel). Although it also has its drawbacks, which it compensates for with various design solutions (for example, the BMP-3 has frontal aluminum armor supplemented with 2 steel sheets)
            2. +1
              11 August 2022 13: 46
              So in the tests of the BZ, fragments have long been taken into account, not only from armored panels, but also from the bullets destroyed by them. Therefore, now the panels are closed on both sides with Kevlar, and not a simple "tin", as before.
            3. fiv
              0
              11 August 2022 18: 12
              Do you seriously think that you didn't shoot?
            4. 0
              12 August 2022 02: 03
              And what will happen if an infantryman who is wearing a bulletproof vest is fired from a grenade launcher? measure the size of the fragments that flew out of the bulletproof vest, and at what angles ...
              And you can also from the 152-mm Msta-B ... and also look for something to measure ... lol
        2. 0
          12 August 2022 19: 12
          I read in one smart book "... in the entire history of mankind, weapons of destruction have always dominated the means of protection ..."
        3. 0
          17 August 2022 11: 14
          Quote: igorka357
          The shield is very far behind the sword, and he can no longer catch up, except perhaps with active defense.

          Passive also works well. The same banal gratings, but not handicraft, but well-designed, manufactured and installed. Somewhere a couple of months ago, there was a video of the installation of gratings in the field on the BMP-2 on the network. Those that were designed 15 years ago. Find, look, there is something. The grate, with a step smaller than the warhead of a grenade, behind it is a thin steel screen. The grate either breaks the fuse and funnel, or initiates an explosion not on the armor. Behind it is a screen, which, by breaking, must extinguish the main shock wave. Then the main armor comes into play. According to tests at the Research Institute of Steel, such protection gave at least 0,5 probability of non-defeat of equipment. And 0,5 is not a lot. It's already 50/50 to what it is. To the fact that even a shot from an RPG-7 that worked on the armor did not always lead to the defeat of the vehicle. Yes, the armor was pierced, someone was wounded, but nothing important was hurt and the armored car continues to fight. These are not isolated cases. I'm not talking about tanks, but about light armor. BMP and armored personnel carrier

          There is also a better solution than lattices. Fabric screen with weights. Looks like hinged armor with bolts. It can be called not a lining, but a lining. The grenade, sticking into the fabric, pushes through it without breaking through, and the weights, moving, hit it and destroy the cumulative funnel.
          Of course, both the bars and the fabric screen with loads only affect those grenades in which the head fuse is. If there are several of them or the fuse is not in the head, but in the center or tail of the ammunition (there are also such, most ATGMs and some RPGs), then the destruction of the head of the grenade will not lead to anything. So absolute protection does not exist, as well as absolute weapons. These are measures against the most common types of infantry anti-tank guns
      2. -3
        11 August 2022 10: 16
        I realized for myself
        you need a soldier to become a BMD
        exoskeleton, hinged ceramic armor + KAZ
        built-in parachute for low-altitude landing (25 meters), night vision,
        built-in breathing apparatus, mini-UAV, BIUS-TZ
        for shooters:
        PKM + Scorpion system for 2000 rounds 7,62x54 + grenade launcher GP-30 40 mm
        for grenade launcher:
        portable LShO-57
        1. +1
          11 August 2022 11: 12
          Star Infantry?
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. -1
            11 August 2022 13: 42
            no exoskeleton will surpass the BMD-4 in terms of firepower and security
            100 mm gun-launcher and 30 mm automatic gun + PKT
            about hits with RPGs,
            BMD-4 critically lacks a tank blade like the BMP-3 (bottom photo, in caponier)
            and KAZ Arena (when in a caponier) or KAZ Afganit (on the march / in the city) like Kurganets

        2. +1
          11 August 2022 13: 49
          "Bill is the Hero of the Galaxy". In all details and consequences.
        3. +1
          13 August 2022 10: 17

          Like that? laughing
  4. IVZ
    +8
    11 August 2022 05: 43
    Increasing the distance from the point of detonation of the explosive charge to the armor by a factor of 2 reduces the gas pressure on the armor by a factor of 8 (cubic dependence). Data for high-explosive charge. I think that since there is still no protection from the cumulative jet, it is necessary to use screens and other similar means for early initiation of the ammunition charge and, finally, to speed up the development and implementation of KAZ. And there is no need to be smart about the danger of KAZ for your infantry, in the light of the article under discussion.
  5. +9
    11 August 2022 06: 11
    Good article. Now let's look at REAL life. In the US Army, fairly cardboard Strikers were fitted with bars. No high-tech, no nanotechnology. Banal lattice. Result. 120+ hits and ZERO penetration. ZERO. Yours did not even think of copying the bars from the Stryker. Yes, they do not save from roofers, but the Hohlonedovermacht has not only roofers. And the grill, like on a striker, is a fairly cheap thing, and it saved the lives of our soldiers. For some reason, your "experts" did not think of welding the same on the same cardboard armored personnel carriers and no less cardboard infantry fighting vehicles, not to mention BMD. Is this also a consequence of "sanctions"? or is it a consequence of the absolutely disregard of the command staff for the lives of soldiers and no less disregard for those responsible for the mat part. And you need to ask the question, is this incompetence or deliberate sabotage. How many of your guys died due to the fact that there were no gratings on infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, armored personnel carriers and tanks?
    1. +5
      11 August 2022 06: 29
      120 hits from a slingshot or what? What are the tests?
      1. +2
        11 August 2022 06: 49
        https://defense-update.com/20060102_slat-stryker.html
        https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/m1126-strykers-in-combat-experiences-lessons-01323/
        it's in English.

        Details in Russian at Fofanov.
        1. 0
          11 August 2022 15: 15
          not found in English. where to look for Feofanov?
          1. 0
            11 August 2022 21: 14
            It's strange they didn't find it. From the bottom link, it's easy to read the following: "“We were hit by 115 RPGs hit Strykers over the year we had here, not one penetrated a Stryker, not one. Not any — no machine gun fire penetrated a Stryker inside. We did have a soldier that was killed in a hatch by an RPG — standing up in a hatch, and they fired from a building on top, but not one RPG penetrated a Stryker" (Colonel Brown)
            1. +1
              11 August 2022 22: 00
              So dofiga people from the forum "didn't find" - they threw minuses at me. They didn’t search, they didn’t read. Well, it's clear why they "haven't found" or "niasililipatamushamnogabuff". They are not readers, but writers with their own personal, bright, creative, unique opinion. Where they get their "unique unique opinion" from is unclear. Obviously not one of those publications, and obviously not from personal experience.
              1. 0
                12 August 2022 04: 29
                I just have a link to the site opens, a three-page list of articles. Where can you find the right paragraph?
    2. IVZ
      +1
      11 August 2022 06: 35
      In the US Army, fairly cardboard Strikers were fitted with bars.

      Yes, similar gratings were used by our tankers even in the Second World War. The problem is not in the availability of relevant developments, but in the absence of orders for their completion and purchase by the Customer. Apparently there are more priority programs and there is not enough money for everything. Or some other reason.
      1. +11
        11 August 2022 06: 56
        You need to look very carefully at what is happening in your Defense Ministry and the General Staff. The simplest things are loved. An absolutely crazy invasion plan based on absolutely crazy, the devil knows where the intelligence received from. And after all, SOMEONE approved and signed it all. Complete unpreparedness to saturate the enemy infantry with anti-tank weapons, although our experience of the Iraq war was not classified and a lot was posted in open sources. About beloved Flagma, nor yesterday beloved Air Force base, I am silent. It is absolutely incomprehensible what your command is doing. It seems that NOBODY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING and rake jumps continue, and the war according to the patterns of the First World War. When our frigate Stark received the Exocet, the commander was reprimanded and kicked out of the fleet. Your beloved flagship commander was awarded.
        Recently, we were practicing on the old Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate. The following flew into the frigate: 3 anti-ship missiles harpoon, 2 anti-ship missiles exoset, 3 guided 500-pound bombs. Moreover, the frigate was still shot from cannons (there is no armor at all). And the frigate, without any struggle for vitality, sank for 4+ hours. Your "Moscow" received 4 times less hits (2 Harpoons), and still sank. Too many questions "At the "Moscow" there was a fire in the BC." Well, yes, when 2 Harpoon anti-ship missiles arrive at the BC, it NATURALLY ignites .. "Fuels and lubricants and BC spontaneously ignited at the airfield." Well, yes, when a couple of ATACMS arrives at the fuel and lubricant depot, it naturally ignites. In the USA there is a joke "He died of natural causes, since a bullet to the head naturally causes death." So it is with you with your "spontaneous combustion" of BC and fuels and lubricants
        1. -9
          11 August 2022 07: 23
          Quote: Baron Pardus
          You need to look very carefully at what is happening in your Defense Ministry and the General Staff. The simplest things are loved. An absolutely crazy invasion plan based on absolutely crazy, the devil knows where the intelligence received from. And after all, SOMEONE approved and signed it all. Complete unpreparedness to saturate the enemy infantry with anti-tank weapons, although our experience of the Iraq war was not classified and a lot was posted in open sources. About beloved Flagma, nor yesterday beloved Air Force base, I am silent. It is absolutely incomprehensible what your command is doing. It seems that NOBODY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING and rake jumps continue, and the war according to the patterns of the First World War. When our frigate Stark received the Exocet, the commander was reprimanded and kicked out of the fleet. Your beloved flagship commander was awarded.
          Recently, we were practicing on the old Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate. The following flew into the frigate: 3 anti-ship missiles harpoon, 2 anti-ship missiles exoset, 3 guided 500-pound bombs. Moreover, the frigate was still shot from cannons (there is no armor at all). And the frigate, without any struggle for vitality, sank for 4+ hours. Your "Moscow" received 4 times less hits (2 Harpoons), and still sank. Too many questions "At the "Moscow" there was a fire in the BC." Well, yes, when 2 Harpoon anti-ship missiles arrive at the BC, it NATURALLY ignites .. "Fuels and lubricants and BC spontaneously ignited at the airfield." Well, yes, when a couple of ATACMS arrives at the fuel and lubricant depot, it naturally ignites. In the USA there is a joke "He died of natural causes, since a bullet to the head naturally causes death." So it is with you with your "spontaneous combustion" of BC and fuels and lubricants

          Who would have said ... but not the "brave" US Army. First, figure it out for yourself.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. -4
              11 August 2022 07: 55
              Still, you would have suffered ... you didn’t stick your nose out of your bases there ... but whose ship stupidly burned down completely without any fight? Or about the submarine that I couldn’t part with the rock, probably overslept ... or about your super-duper Zamvolts with Independences and Freedoms too ... how is it with f 35 ... that they can’t finalize in any way for 20 years .. .and continue to rivet them unfinished. Continue the list? Oh, how did I forget ... were the bedbugs removed from the Connecticut submarine or left for divorce? And to boast about the fact that they shot each other or that Whole America capitulated to bearded men in slippers and machine guns ... you generally need to be able to do this. Well, it has been said more than once about Iraq, to ​​roll out from the air that actually does not have air defense systems ... But why didn’t they mention Mogadish and Grenada?
              1. The comment was deleted.
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                      1. +13
                        11 August 2022 09: 57
                        I have personal reasons to hate Khokhol, Bandera's bastard. My family has a PERSONAL account with them, since the Great Patriotic War. The sooner and better you grave them, the better. And I have been sending money and supplies to Donbas since 2014. A little, but I send. Now I can't. Tritely blocked all financial opportunities to transfer grandmas. About worries about the fate of Russia. Obviously, your (or rather, NOT YOURS for a long time) oligarchs and the "elite" will not be engaged in this, rather the opposite. I sincerely wish that all the problems that surfaced during this "war" were resolved efficiently and quickly. But the reality is quite different. When Abramovich is present at the negotiations of the highest level (And who is Abramovich, what is his post, Warren Buffett does not go to negotiations, but he will be richer). This is not a good symptom. When Urgant escaped, watering Russia with slop, he came back and got his job back - this is a very bad symptom. Your victory, and it WILL be, will simply be merged by your (or rather, NOT YOUR for a long time) elite. For some reason, the children of even the most frostbitten American Liberals live in the USA, keep money and business in the USA. And where do the children of Putin and Lavrov live? Where is their business? Yes, I’m just reading what your (or rather NOT YOUR) "creative people" and officials are doing and I'm freaking out. If in the United States, some official would say to teenagers "The state did not ask you to give birth, it does not owe you anything," then this person would lose his job faster than his own squeal. With a wolf ticket. When the popular Diski Chicks refused to support our war in Iraq, they were harassed. People did not buy tickets for concerts, they were refused to rent out the premises. And WITHOUT some command from the FBI or the State Department. It's just that the people were furious that they opposed the war. When the French did not support the same war, American buyers REFUSED to buy French wines and cosmetics and even clothes. And importers stopped importing it. Without a team from the FBI or the State Department. And the French suffered heavy losses. And with you ... you can pour mud and dirt on the country with whatever you like, and you will get away with it "The system has learned to forgive, tea is not 37 years old."
                        And I want the United States to have at least one world counterbalance. So that our, burn it in hell, civil government, takes up INTERNAL problems. TRUMP 2024.
                      2. -4
                        11 August 2022 14: 44
                        You can volunteer to join the militia and take revenge on Bandera. You have good knowledge, and most importantly - military experience
                      3. 0
                        11 August 2022 22: 03
                        Quote: Baron Pardus
                        . TRUMP 2024.
                        Nancy Pelosi 2024... wassat
                        "Carthage (Washington) must be destroyed..."
                        good
                        Moscow = Third Rome
                        fellow
                    2. +1
                      11 August 2022 13: 59
                      No, don't touch me, Rambo. The first Rambo movie is great. The rest is crap. Tango and Cash is also a great movie. FUBAR. smile good
                2. -5
                  11 August 2022 10: 18
                  About Kursk, what did the submarine do in that district? You can't tell ... by the way, she needed repairs. About Afghanistan and Chechnya, that we were sitting at the bases, this is not even funny. Secondly, Chechnya is the territory of Russia, it’s about a tribute, by the way, not bad, they clean up yours in Ukraine, oh, how not bad))) ... about sonar ... so our submarine didn’t even feel it. And the last thing is you do not touch our country and the army, and they will not touch yours. We’re not sitting on the American site, but you came here and don’t bend your fingers here ... you bet on grandmas ... even the allies of the Saudis with Qatar sent you far and for a long time. It was not our Putin who was told that his legs would not be in Saudi Arabia, but your grandfather. We are not interested in your problems, sort it out yourself ... and yes, there will be no more unipolar or two polar worlds.
            2. -3
              11 August 2022 08: 54
              Quote: Baron Pardus
              We have NOT lost the flagship. Our airfields do not "self-explode"

              This is because you have not really fought anywhere since the Vietnam War. Iraq and Afghanistan don't count...
              1. 0
                11 August 2022 09: 05
                Where did yours fight? In Chechnya? It's still unknown who won. In general, whoever PAYS tribute has lost. You pay Chechnya a hefty tribute. Where did yours fight? In Georgia? Well, that's funny. If you competed with the Georgians in choral singing, then yes, they would pose some kind of threat there. But fight? You know, there was a joke about the Italian and Austrian Army. That God was very upset that the Austrians were beaten by all and sundry, took pity on them, and created the Italian army. And then he took pity on the Italians and created the Georgian Army. This is also not a real war. This is approximately if the US decides to make war with Mexico. What's next, Libya? Well, it's not a war either. Khokhlostan? In theory, this should not have been a war - it should have been a beating and slaughter of raguli. However, it turned out SAVSEM PA TO ANOTHER, GENATSVAL. Russia has always said that it has the 2nd army in the world. And this "2nd Army of the World" cannot gouge a herd of raguli led by a clown for half a year? Who have even older weapons, why Russia? And you STILL have not even conquered half of the territory. Let me remind you that the destruction of the Iraqi Army and the COMPLETE occupation of Iraq took us ONE month and a week and a half. The entire, ABSOLUTELY WHOLE, Iraqi army was DESTROYED. Our planes and helicopters were chasing through the desert, not only after individual cars, but after individual people. There was a column, the first and last cars were knocked out, or the road in front of and behind the column was destroyed, and then everything was shot and burned, to the last person. And the Iraqi army was STRONGER than the Khokhlyandsky nedovermacht. Air defense was suppressed in a few days. They won FULL air superiority and no MIG-29s and Mirages helped the Iraqis. The answer is simple - WE know how to fight, we have better equipment, our soldiers are better trained, and our generals hold their posts not through acquaintance or family ties.
                1. +2
                  11 August 2022 21: 29
                  No, it is wrong to compare the war in Iraq and the NWO in Ukraine. Compare with the siege at Waco. Sect "Branch of David", 1993. How much did the National Guard take a hundred people with smoothbore there? Tanks and helicopters! Two months !! Because their own, not the Iraqis. Among them are women and children. The same is true in Ukraine. Their. Need to save.
                  By the way, everyone was put in Waco, 82 people, three children. And the ranch was burned to the ground and they missed their 4!
                  Warriors, however!
                2. 0
                  11 August 2022 23: 28
                  Quote: Baron Pardus
                  The answer is simple - WE know how to fight, we have better equipment, our soldiers are better trained, and our generals hold their posts not through acquaintance or family ties.

                  Fight, fight like that. Why scratch your tongue in vain. soldier
            3. 0
              11 August 2022 15: 39
              And how many died after the occupation and are currently in Iraq. In Afghanistan, they sat in their bases and did not stick their nose out. If Russia had not got into Syria, how many years ISIS would have existed.
        2. 0
          11 August 2022 08: 18
          Quote: Baron Pardus
          You need to look very carefully at what is happening in your Defense Ministry and the General Staff. The simplest things are loved. An absolutely crazy invasion plan based on absolutely crazy, the devil knows where the intelligence received from. And after all, SOMEONE approved and signed it all. Complete unpreparedness to saturate the enemy infantry with anti-tank weapons, although our experience of the Iraq war was not classified and a lot was posted in open sources. About beloved Flagma, nor yesterday beloved Air Force base, I am silent. It is absolutely incomprehensible what your command is doing. It seems that NOBODY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING and rake jumps continue, and the war according to the patterns of the First World War. When our frigate Stark received the Exocet, the commander was reprimanded and kicked out of the fleet. Your beloved flagship commander was awarded.
          Recently, we were practicing on the old Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate. The following flew into the frigate: 3 anti-ship missiles harpoon, 2 anti-ship missiles exoset, 3 guided 500-pound bombs. Moreover, the frigate was still shot from cannons (there is no armor at all). And the frigate, without any struggle for vitality, sank for 4+ hours. Your "Moscow" received 4 times less hits (2 Harpoons), and still sank. Too many questions "At the "Moscow" there was a fire in the BC." Well, yes, when 2 Harpoon anti-ship missiles arrive at the BC, it NATURALLY ignites .. "Fuels and lubricants and BC spontaneously ignited at the airfield." Well, yes, when a couple of ATACMS arrives at the fuel and lubricant depot, it naturally ignites. In the USA there is a joke "He died of natural causes, since a bullet to the head naturally causes death." So it is with you with your "spontaneous combustion" of BC and fuels and lubricants

          You understand everything that you wrote is explained very simply. In the Russian Federation, the military-political leadership lives in its own looking glass, where, according to all reports and all statistics, they have the best army in the world, the best generals, the best presidents, the best weapons that have no analogues in the world. Do you think there will be at least one brave person to go and tell the Supreme that everything that we wrote to you in the reports is a lie, only so that you are satisfied and reward us. There are no such, all opportunists and slimes of one place.
          Who will go and admit that he just sits and wipes his pants at the headquarters, if only the salary is paid and the pension is good and at the same time there is no responsibility.
          Look at VO and its contingent, most of them are wearing rose-colored glasses and are afraid to take it off.
          1. +1
            11 August 2022 08: 32
            I understand careerism very well. Not that there is no careerism in the American army. There is. And it helps a lot to clean up the army. Because behind any officer in the rank of colonel and above, there are more than a dofiga of people who are aiming for his place. And with any serious jamb to such a Colonel or General - KHAN, their own subordinates will devour and not choke. Every Lieutenant Colonel wants to become a Colonel :-) And Major - Lieutenant Colonel. At the same time, if the accusations are ridiculous and not confirmed, then they will devour the one who made these accusations. And about the one who has the braver generals. I will say one thing. When this old scum - Biden ordered to drop everything and leave Afghanistan, then ALL, ALL of our officers from the colonel and above raised a howl. How to leave like that, because there was not a single defeat? How do you drop a weapon like that? Is it paid for by taxpayers money? How can you leave weapons to terrorists? NO ONE GENERAL IS AFRAID TO RESPOND. Even officers in the ranks of Captains wrote letters (although they have little responsibility for anything). NOBODY IS AFRAID. Moreover, they objected and expressed their protest in WRITTEN form. The fact that this old Biden did not listen to our Generals is not the fault of the generals themselves. But they were NOT afraid. And this despite the fact that Congress and the Senate will devour the objectionable general and will not choke. And yours are afraid. In general, I believe that our country - the United States - would be better if it were led not by civilian shmaros, but by the military. The only place in the US where the largest concentration of ADEQUATE people is the army. Although the liberals are destroying it too. As you know, everything liberals touch turns to crap. They destroyed the USSR, they are destroying my second Motherland. You begin to look with delight at the Chinese who wound their liberals on the caterpillars of tanks.
            1. +2
              11 August 2022 09: 17
              Biden ordered to drop everything and leave Afghanistan, then ALL, ALL of our officers from the colonel and above raised a howl. How to leave like that, because there was not a single defeat? How do you drop a weapon like that? Is it paid for by taxpayers money? How can you leave weapons to terrorists? NO ONE GENERAL IS AFRAID TO RESPOND.
              Was it not the same in 1972 after the Vietnam War? And there were no defeats, and all the weapons were left. Only there was no "general's howl". Yes, and in Korea in 1953, about the same story was.
              1. +2
                11 August 2022 09: 45
                As for Korea, I disagree. Matt Ridgeway (by the way, the former commander of the 82nd Airborne) believed that the fight should continue. However, George Patton, too, and other generals and Admirals. Both he and other generals insisted on continuing the war, since the American army inflicted losses many times higher than it received and we had no defeats on the battlefield. From the word GENERALLY. In Vietnam, it's a little more difficult. From the very beginning, civilian shmaro carriers entangled the army with all sorts of restrictions: here - do not bomb, do not fly in there, do not fire there. And again, despite the PROTESTS of the generals, it was the civilian scum that leaked the Vietnam War. You see, the US problem is that the military is commanded by civilian scum who easily start wars (despite the warnings of generals who KNOW what war is, since they served and started with lieutenants, usually in a war zone), and with the same ease they are merged, with the SMALLEST hint that the war may affect their re-election. The weakness of our country is that individual senators and congressmen do not stand up for the WHOLE country, but only for THEIR PERSONAL re-elections. I give an example. This old lichen female dog is an alcoholic - do you know why Pelosi rushed to Taiwan? But because in her district there are more than a dofig of immigrants from TAIWAN who support TAIWAN, about 22% of the population of her district is from there, EMNIP. And she rushed to Taiwan to get exactly their votes. And do not care that he broke firewood, and harmed the United States both politically and militarily. But now she has every chance of being re-elected. That's about it. And they left Vietnam because Nixon knew that if he did not leave Vietnam, he would lose the election, and for him, like any civilian gouging, personal gain is higher than the success of the Army. It's not worth fighting. Starting wars must be done with extreme caution. But if you have already begun to fight, then you need to fight so that after 100 years, the streams of your enemies (if any remain) should have nightmares at the mere thought that they will fight with you again. The Japanese, for example, are already ready to admit that the USSR, not the USA, dropped the vigorous loaf on them. Japanese politicians are swallowed up and wiped away by everything our guys in Okinawa and Japan would not exclaim. As long as it doesn't annoy us. The Germans are the same. The Germans do not remember that you tried to spare their civilians, despite the fact that they genocide Soviet citizens. The Germans FORGOT it. But on the other hand, they perfectly remember what ours did with their cities, and that ours simply and corny starved 1.2 million German prisoners. Without even blinking an eye. America would be much better off if civilian slugs obeyed the military more.
                When in 2020 our “oppressed national and sexual minorities” were engaged in arson and looting (simultaneously with robberies, murders and rapes), the commanders of the National Guard were BEGGING the governors to let them off the chain. The governors were afraid. Do you know what it led to? In addition, when there were pogroms in Kenosha (where Kyle Rittenhouse distinguished himself, the guy really deserved a medal), then an order came from the mayor to all the policemen - they would defend their sites - the mer was very afraid of "pissing off" the voters and losing the elections. Do you know when all this madness came to an end? No, not when Ritterhouse slammed two scum and crippled a third, but when word spread that bikers from the Aryan Brastsva and the White Aryan Resistance were going to Kenosha. All these BLM, ANTIFU, LGBT and other scum - as if blown away by the wind, only the stink remained. And when the bikers did arrive, they were treated, fed and given money. Everyone clearly understood that one cannot rely on the police, since the mayor and governor will sacrifice everything and everyone to their elections, but you can rely on the Aryan Brotherhood. The most laughter was that the "skakusa protesters" against "racism and cop arbitrariness" in the first place ... burned down and plundered an auto shop owned by a black man - a veteran of the American army. How the looting of a Nike store, the looting and burning of a Walgreens pharmacy, and the rape of several white and Asian girls is "fighting racism" is still not understood.
                1. 0
                  11 August 2022 11: 40
                  Quote: Baron Pardus
                  As for Korea, I disagree. Matt Ridgeway (by the way, the former commander of the 82nd Airborne) believed that the fight should continue. However, George Patton, too, and other generals and Admirals. Both he and other generals insisted on continuing the war, since the American army inflicted losses many times higher than it received and we had no defeats on the battlefield. From the word GENERALLY. In Vietnam, it's a little more difficult. From the very beginning, civilian shmaro carriers entangled the army with all sorts of restrictions: don’t bomb there, don’t fly in there, don’t fire there. And again, despite the PROTESTS of the generals, it was the civilian scum that leaked the war in Vietnam.

                  tired of reading long emotional texts.
                  They won wars because they did not face an equal enemy. it is not necessary to drive the Papuans with aircraft carriers and missile strikes of submarines. the same story about helicopters hunting for individual cars and people when the enemy has no air defense at all. And in Korea and Vietnam they received full panama hats because a powerful power stood behind the enemy and supplied them with weapons and advisers. now exactly the same situation with the Ukrainians. if NATO had not supplied weapons and ammunition there, then the ukrovermacht would have been finished off by now. as the battles of 14-15 years from Mariupol showed, they then fled without any fights and the boilers were their favorite place. so I watched with pleasure how the American army would now fight against the Ukrainians in the current situation. I have no doubt that carpet bombing would be everywhere, but it would be interesting. and fairy tales about not a single lost battle at all smell like Rimbaud. and how barefoot Somalis with only machine guns stuffed full Panama hats into Mogadishu. yes, more of them died and it could not be otherwise, but they even managed to shoot down a couple or three helicopters. It seems that after this incident, troops were quickly withdrawn from Somalia?
                  1. 0
                    12 August 2022 22: 35
                    Quote: fuffi
                    how barefoot Somalis with only machine guns stuffed full panama hats into Mogadishu. yes, more of them died and it could not be otherwise, but they even managed to shoot down a couple or three helicopters. it seems that after this incident, troops were quickly withdrawn from Somalia

                    It is enough to recall Grenada and the Cuban builders.... I won’t be surprised if there were more of them that they would have knocked out the landing force from the island ..
                    But they are already so notably show off ...
                2. +2
                  11 August 2022 12: 08
                  Baron, you admitted that the US is fighting like barbarians, sparing no one and nothing for its own purposes. And the goals are always the same - financial gain. No pity, no morals.
                  1. +3
                    11 August 2022 21: 57
                    He is strange, he views crimes as virtues, the division of society as strength, like democracy in the USA, and he himself is a racist. Generally excellent trolling.
                3. 0
                  11 August 2022 18: 22
                  As for Korea, I disagree.
                  Well, they are still in Korea, there was no escape. What about Vietnam?
            2. +1
              11 August 2022 10: 36
              Quote: Baron Pardus
              I understand careerism very well. Not that there is no careerism in the American army. There is. And it helps a lot to clean up the army. Because behind any officer in the rank of colonel and above, there are more than a dofiga of people who are aiming for his place. And with any serious jamb to such a Colonel or General - KHAN, their own subordinates will devour and not choke. Every Lieutenant Colonel wants to become a Colonel :-) And Major - Lieutenant Colonel. At the same time, if the accusations are ridiculous and not confirmed, then they will devour the one who made these accusations. And about the one who has the braver generals. I will say one thing. When this old scum - Biden ordered to drop everything and leave Afghanistan, then ALL, ALL of our officers from the colonel and above raised a howl. How to leave like that, because there was not a single defeat? How do you drop a weapon like that? Is it paid for by taxpayers money? How can you leave weapons to terrorists? NO ONE GENERAL IS AFRAID TO RESPOND. Even officers in the ranks of Captains wrote letters (although they have little responsibility for anything). NOBODY IS AFRAID. Moreover, they objected and expressed their protest in WRITTEN form. The fact that this old Biden did not listen to our Generals is not the fault of the generals themselves. But they were NOT afraid. And this despite the fact that Congress and the Senate will devour the objectionable general and will not choke. And yours are afraid. In general, I believe that our country - the United States - would be better if it were led not by civilian shmaros, but by the military. The only place in the US where the largest concentration of ADEQUATE people is the army. Although the liberals are destroying it too. As you know, everything liberals touch turns to crap. They destroyed the USSR, they are destroying my second Motherland. You begin to look with delight at the Chinese who wound their liberals on the caterpillars of tanks.

              Here are the differences! In the United States, the army knows what responsibility is, that in which case any general or colonel will be devoured and not choked, they will sue in such a way that they will lose their pension and freedom.
              In the Russian Federation, for this, they are awarded or, at most, quietly removed from office. That you are a respected person "low" to judge him, and if you investigate and judge, then it will come up so much that even more heads will fly. Therefore, with such a system that was created in 30 years, nothing will change. Therefore, they fight in dill according to the standards of the 80-90s and equipment from the same times.
              Although, after the war with Georgia, there were many screams that the army needed new standards and new weapons, but things are still practically there.
              1. -3
                11 August 2022 12: 33
                Quote: leks
                In the United States, the army knows what responsibility is, that in which case any general or colonel will be devoured and not choked, they will sue in such a way that they will lose their pension and freedom.

                How did it end with the complete absence of the Pentagon accounting documents for 4 TRILLION(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)??
                Apparently the entire Pentagon was put on the electric chair until the last cleaner ??????
                For the other 4,9 trillion, they can at least show reporting - albeit fake ...

                How did the case of the fleet and fuel oil end ??? 42 admirals and senior officers under investigation were ...

                How did the finance case in Afghanistan end? The auditors counted 192 billion worth of embezzlement in the construction of bases and checkpoints and abandoned this case ... Even the issue of criminal liability was not discussed ...

                Gobbled up, sued and deprived of pensions .... yeah ...
            3. -2
              11 August 2022 12: 46
              Quote: Baron Pardus
              Because behind any officer in the rank of colonel and above, there are more than a dofiga of people who are aiming for his place. And with any serious jamb to such a Colonel or General - KHAN, their own subordinates will devour and not choke.

              How did it end with naval fuel oil? 42 admirals and senior officers were under investigation ...
              This is where the 5 day sex parties were in honor of the 200th birthday of some admiral of yours...
              Eh?

              And the Pentagon reported - where did the 4 trillion dollars go - for which MISSING accounting documents?

              About the construction of sewers at temporary checkpoints in Afghanistan is generally a classic. So no one has yet profited from soldier feces in the US Army .....
            4. -2
              11 August 2022 15: 41
              Putin does not abandon his own, but his own and this environment. And you won’t last long without an environment.
      2. +2
        11 August 2022 07: 10
        Quote: IVZ
        Yes, similar gratings were used by our tankers even in the Second World War.

        Nothing of the sort, handicraft bed nets and welded-on railings don't compare closely with cutting grates either in durability or time of creation.
        1. -1
          11 August 2022 17: 56
          What they cut, the grating should provoke a premature operation, at most provoke another change in the angle of approach of the jet to the plane. What cut are you talking about?
          1. +2
            11 August 2022 19: 06
            Quote: igorka357
            What they cut, the grating should provoke a premature operation, at most provoke another change in the angle of approach of the jet to the plane.
            You have very poor knowledge of the material. The grate is not a solid screen; a fuse hitting the void is much more likely than a strip of metal. And the main task of the strip is precisely in the destruction of ammunition.
            The main task of a modern anti-cumulative lattice screen is to damage (cut) the cumulative funnel of the projectile, reducing its effectiveness. In addition, damage to the wiring in the area from the fuse to the bottom detonator is possible, which will make it impossible to activate it.

            https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/60919b67fd15032e715d54cf/evoliuciia-sposobov-zascity-bronetehniki-ot-kumuliativnyh-snariadov-611fcb0155870f1be04142c8
            1. +1
              17 August 2022 11: 31
              I support. I am surprised that there are still people who do not understand how a modern grate works and what it is intended for. drinks
          2. +1
            17 August 2022 11: 30
            Quote: igorka357
            What they cut, the grating should provoke a premature operation, at most provoke another change in the angle of approach of the jet to the plane. What cut are you talking about?

            Including cutting. The head of a grenade. That is why the grating is oriented with sharp edges to the likely approach of the grenade, and not with flat wide ones.
            Although you are partly right, there were cases of a grenade getting stuck in the grate between its grid and turning the grenade, when, although it worked, the kumjet first pierced a lot of air and only then reached the armor. But the main purpose of the grate is to BREAK a grenade, its cumulative funnel or fuse. Do you know how the fuse is made for RPG-7 shots? Current-carrying belts under the head casing, which should cut the lattice plates.
      3. +1
        17 August 2022 11: 26
        Quote: IVZ
        Yes, similar gratings were used by our tankers even in the Second World War.

        nothing similar. In general, if you look at the design. Then they just used a screen, but not a solid one, but a mesh one, so that the warhead grenade was detonated not on the armor. The current gratings are designed to break the warhead of a grenade - a fuse and a cumulative funnel.
        The lattices of that time (we will call them that, although it is more correct - grids) did not work. Because Faust had an inertial fuse and would have exploded anyway. Let it be out of focus, but that was enough to break through this thick tank armor of the then existing tanks.
        The current gratings work quite tolerably for RPG-7 rounds and structurally similar ones.
        Do you understand the difference?
        And yes, even a banal lattice, but well-designed and made (not a bed net, not a chain-link or a fence removed from the sidewalk) will do its job. See how the factory grilles are made, what we have, what our unbelievable friends have. This is not at all what it was in the Great Patriotic War.
    3. -3
      11 August 2022 06: 52
      Given the saturation of the PTS troops, unfortunately, no gratings can save; in an infantry unit of ordinary sevens, each soldier can have one, and if they are sitting in the trenches on the defensive, then not one RPG each. I'm not talking about buildings where tanks are hammering from the 2nd floor and above.
    4. +1
      11 August 2022 06: 54
      120 hits from an RPG? Well, this is, of course, bullshit, you can stupidly gouge a striker with 120 blanks, along with gratings. A thought creeps in, but do you hear at least a little on the topic? Or just negative chatter?
      1. 0
        11 August 2022 09: 12
        yes, he writes everything correctly - it’s impossible to knock out American equipment, it’s good that he didn’t admit about the abrams that they can withstand a direct hit by a 152 mm nuclear projectile. What is there to argue about, the striker is invulnerable, let him believe.
        1. -2
          11 August 2022 10: 07
          https://defense-update.com/20060102_slat-stryker.html
          https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/m1126-strykers-in-combat-experiences-lessons-01323/
      2. -3
        11 August 2022 10: 06
        I gave you links. Read. 120 hits from an RPG, naturally not in the same striker. Although, according to the documents, one of the strikers was hit 9 times from an RPG. There was no penetration. As for bars - do not compare banal cage nets with bars (slat armor) on Strikers And learn the materiel. I provided links above. Search to help you. As for Abmrams, he has armor, and SLAs and ammunition and night vision devices better than what you have.
        1. 0
          11 August 2022 15: 43
          Remember the film about the black eagle in Somalia. The amers did not have normal armored personnel carriers and Soviet armored personnel carriers saved them.
        2. 0
          11 August 2022 17: 50
          Ahh .. so not one at a time .. shorter than 120 shots at 1500 strikers penetrations less than 0.1% wassat
        3. +1
          11 August 2022 17: 53
          I still don’t understand who has it with us, and who has it with you ..?
          1. +1
            11 August 2022 22: 04
            It seems the Russian baron, swore allegiance to the Amer, served in the US Army. He sometimes gets confused, his own, not his own, or nobody else's.
    5. 0
      11 August 2022 09: 33
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      Banal lattice. Result. 120+ hits and ZERO penetration. ZERO. Yours didn’t even think of copying the bars from Stryker

      There are a bunch of videos on the net about shelling armor through bars. In most cases - through penetration. On one of the rollers, when testing the grating in the BTR-60PB, there was a penetration already in both sides. So don't puff out your cheeks. These lattice feints have been familiar to the SA/RA since 1943.
      1. -4
        11 August 2022 10: 12
        Nets for enclosures are NOT the same as SLAT ARMOR. The principle of operation is different https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MintySnappyAmurstarfish-mobile.mp4
        1. 0
          11 August 2022 12: 27
          The principle of operation is the same - premature operation of the grenade and / or violation of the formation of the jet. With the same success, you can weld a "hedgehog" of thick iron rods to the armor, hang a spare. tracks, sandbags ... It can and will help against RPGs, but it still won’t save you from anti-tank systems. And since they have already fired from an RPG "at point blank range", it means that someone has not finalized something.
      2. +3
        11 August 2022 22: 18
        The colonel, the commander of the Stryker mechanized brigade, told about 115 non-penetrations of Stryker from RPG. There are a number of nuances here - RPG in English is not necessarily RPG-7, but in general any similar weapon. Can the colonel be trusted? Quite. There is another nuance here. The colonel did not say that it was the bars that the Strikers saved, he just talked about non-penetration. And there is nothing surprising. In addition to the grilles (and these are not just grilles, but special armor), the Stryker also has a 50-mm composite anti-cumulative screen on board, followed by 25,4 mm of ceramic armor, and behind it another 12,7 mm of high-hardness steel armor (the hull itself ), plus a Kevlar lining - and all this is spaced armor, in which each obstacle drastically reduces the effectiveness of the cumulative jet. In the frontal part of the body, all this is tilted at an angle of 70 degrees (at such an angle, even 12,7 mm steel turns into 35 mm).
    6. 0
      11 August 2022 11: 33
      Lattices of various types were installed by everyone and sundry. How many "strikers" burned down, I think the question is rhetorical. So stop with the nonsense. Bredyatin should try to make at least look authentic.



      "Didn't break through!"
    7. +4
      11 August 2022 15: 47
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      In the US Army, fairly cardboard Strikers were fitted with bars. No high-tech, no nanotechnology. Banal lattice. Result. 120+ hits and ZERO penetration. ZERO.

      Have you read the articles linked to carefully? It says that the impenetrability is associated with the use of exclusively RPG-7 against the Stryker with old types of grenades - apparently, other ammunition from wild zoosul it just wasn't. Against newer grenades, the defense is useless.
      Cutting-type gratings on the Strykers, as well as on our BTT, are effective only against the PG-7V.
      1. +1
        11 August 2022 22: 34
        About old and new types of grenades, it says the following: "The 2.5 ton armor add-on is designed to detonate the piezo-electric fuze in the RPG's nose, and “misfocus” the shaped-charge jet. Weapons like the RPG-7 with PG -7VR external link tandem warhead or an RPG-29 weapon external link might give such armor more trouble; (...) Fortunately, they appear to have been quite rare in Iraq" There is no categorical statement that against RPG-7VR and RPG- 29 they are useless. It says "more trouble", that is, it is more difficult to stop these warheads (which is not surprising). And the "wild Zulus" did have them, just "fortunately, they were rare in Iraq."
        As it is not said that it was the "lattices" that stopped the blow. It is written that this was done by a 2,5-ton armor kit, and this, in addition to the grilles, is also 25,4 mm of the strongest ceramic armor over a body of high-hardness steel armor.
        1. 0
          12 August 2022 11: 25
          Quote: yaglon
          There is no categorical statement that they are useless against RPG-7VR and RPG-29. It says "more trouble", that is, it is more difficult to stop these warheads (which is not surprising).

          No, it's said might give such armor more trouble - can cause more trouble. The key word here is might, "may". That is, the author either does not have statistics on hits of new types of grenades, or they simply were not used against Strikers (I would not be surprised if the boxes with new grenades bear the inscription "only against MBTs").
    8. -1
      11 August 2022 15: 59
      Why copy if we have our own? There are sets of lattice screens for the modernization of the BTR-80, the BTR80-RE even took part in a number of hostilities, there are lattice screens from one of the options for upgrading the BMP-2.

      The problem is that (as you correctly noted) there is no will to install them on the part of the command. There is a project, it is possible to manufacture and install, but there is no will to do it.

      PS It is hard to believe about 0 penetrations in real conditions, but the same BTR-80RE showed 50% protection.
    9. +1
      13 August 2022 10: 25
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      The US Army has enough cardboard Strikers

      Come on, "whistle", compared to ours, there is a very decent reservation, there is nothing to compare them. There's a lot of stuff stuffed there besides armor
      "When using Mexas hinged ceramic protection weighing 1300-1700 kg from IBD Ingenieurbüro Deisenroth (Germany), the frontal projection of the vehicle is not affected by a 30-mm armor-piercing APDS-type projectile from a distance of 500 m. Almost all Strykers participating in hostilities are equipped with anti-cumulative gratings that reduce efficiency RPG grenade due to the deformation of the cumulative funnel when it hits the grate.In addition, since 2004, dynamic protection kits have been supplied for Strykers stationed in Iraq, and since 2016, work has been underway to equip Strykers with the Iron Curtain active protection system of the American company Artis, designed to intercept RPG grenades and subsonic ATGMs."
      Although of course, this characterizes Americans for the better, but it is not correct to compare.
      1. -1
        14 August 2022 10: 37
        I call Cardboard Strikers because in their basic configuration they penetrate 14.5mm in the forehead. Compared to Bradley, these are cardboard.
  6. -2
    11 August 2022 06: 39
    if we are not talking about the armored impact of a shock wave, then aluminum partitions between individual seats, which reduce the angles of expansion of secondary fragments, could well help
    1. -2
      11 August 2022 07: 53
      They won't help. They are replaced to some extent by body armor and helmets, but shrapnel will still hit faces, arms, groin and legs. And if you put large partitions in area, then they will hamper the movement of the landing force.
      1. -2
        11 August 2022 08: 29
        well, if you think about it, the seats with partitions could fold up, increasing the free space when getting in and out
      2. -4
        11 August 2022 11: 34
        Back to the sides and armored backs. Locally, you can also stick 15 mm armored steel there.
  7. -6
    11 August 2022 06: 41
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    Yours did not even think of copying the bars from the Stryker. Yes, they do not save from roofers, but the Hohlonedovermacht has not only roofers.

    Did yours think?
    1. -4
      11 August 2022 06: 55
      He will not answer, because most likely he does not even know who he is .. hi
      1. +5
        11 August 2022 07: 33
        Quote: igorka357
        He will not answer, because most likely he does not even know who he is.

        Commentator Baron Pardus does not hide the fact that he lives in the USA.
        So the answer is simple - Americans are his own for him.
  8. +2
    11 August 2022 06: 54
    Everything became clear about the mental abilities of the author of the article and his age by the title of the article. But I read it to the end. The original opinion has not changed.
    It's like a nightmare! Where are the editors looking?
  9. -8
    11 August 2022 07: 09
    The presence of ANY ARMOR in the BMD is a typical Ministry of Defense stupidity, nauseous and inevitable. The presence of this very armor is not dictated by necessity, but by the experience of the children's game of soldiers from the Ministry of Defense, that is, by what dictates from 60 to 80 percent of all their orders in general.
    Why landing wheels? In order to leave the landing site as quickly as possible and get to the place of the combat mission, that is, SUDDENLY fall on the enemy who is not expecting an attack, and capture or destroy the designated object with a swift attack.
    Do you need heavy tanks for this task? Well, it wouldn't hurt if there was an opportunity to call them into existence right on the battlefield. And the lungs? What the hell is an angel for? Will they solve any truly significant tasks in battle? Hehe...
    What does the landing party need? Not armored at all, with only one or two shields, wheeled platforms with high speed and decent cross-country ability. To quickly, very quickly reach the battlefield, as close as possible to the enemy. Cover the cannon, machine gun, grenade launcher behind the shields. It's all. Everything you really need.
    However, instead of taking more people, weapons and "wheels" in the form of really needed transport platforms, we have what we have. How many people were put in because the customers had garbage and a Hollywood movie in their heads? Don't count...
    1. -2
      11 August 2022 08: 19
      Quote: Mikhail3
      How many people were put in because the customers had garbage and a Hollywood movie in their heads? Don't count...

      In the USSR - when these BMDs were created, the Hollywood movie was shown at closed screenings for the authorities ...
      So yes - there was garbage in the minds of the marshals of the USSR
      1. -2
        11 August 2022 11: 52
        So what? What are you trying to say? You referred to the authority of the USSR. What, porridge was not going on in the USSR? He died, remember? And not from the fact that there was a mind chamber in him. Alas, the Soviet marshals were not the standard of reason and foresight. I keep remembering the insane "dancing" railway rocket, as the apotheosis of bossy stupidity and stupidity ...
    2. -1
      11 August 2022 09: 39
      The BMD is good for its purposes, everything is fine with its speed, maneuverability and mobility in general, the armor protects against bullets and shrapnel from Kalash, unlike an open buggy, and our climate is different where do you get on a buggy in winter? How about through swamps? spitting river? Your concept is good in Africa and fighting in the BV, we have a different climate .. The main trouble with the BMD is that it is used as a TANK, that's where all the problems are! He sees what rank of caterpillar and armor all the tank! Forward to assault in the frontal!
      Increasing maneuverability is not a problem now, not in the 60s of the USSR with poor engines, there are suitable units, you can even put a gas turbine engine .. And unlike the West, we have a slightly different ideology and the ability to maintain a database, in the West it is mainly focal database maintenance, that is, there is a certain the enemy, and around it there are bases, allies, and other things that allow tactics, flew in, smacked into safety, flew away, we don’t have such opportunities, we are constantly surrounded by our opponents, there are no allies and only ourselves .. even today’s NWO is an example of this one ally nearby only enemies ! But for the expeditionary force to the same Africa and BV buggies are quite appropriate and work on this is underway and there are these solutions!
      rs: So you yourself would prefer to fight on a buggy or on a BMD?
      1. -2
        11 August 2022 11: 53
        Quote: max702
        BMD is good for its purposes

        What goals? Formulate them, please. Just do not offer to use it as beams. Bask? Are you serious about this?! Instead of people, cartridges and NECESSARY transport? God...
        1. -1
          11 August 2022 16: 04
          Oh, vey, October, November, it will rain with snow from then and we’ll talk where it’s better in a BMD or in a buggy to spite all the winds, and even if it’s -15--20 on the street, then there will be no one to talk to .. The same goals flew in, smacked out ..
      2. -1
        11 August 2022 15: 47
        And what's new in Russia, Kamaz was created in the USSR. YaMZ is also from the USSR.
        1. 0
          11 August 2022 16: 20
          I will say more all cars in general from Germany ..
    3. +3
      11 August 2022 15: 59
      Quote: Mikhail3
      What does the landing party need? Not armored at all, with only one or two shields, wheeled platforms with high speed and decent cross-country ability. To quickly, very quickly reach the battlefield, as close as possible to the enemy.

      And the enemy will look at the sky all this time.
      The landing party needed light armor in order not to lose personnel in the process of advancing to the object from the fire of the riflemen of any landwehr and other territories that might meet on the way. And in order to give the calculation of the guns and ATGMs at least some protection against this rifle - while it will suppress the firing points of the defense of the object.
      Since the landing force was supposed to work in the rear, the probability of running into an anti-tank system was then considered minimal. The maximum that could be found at the defense group of the same bridge was a pair of RPGs.

      And all these newfangled buggies are good for parades, window dressing and for driving zusuls. In a normal war, they will be considered useful exactly until the time the personnel in them are combed with a machine gun. Or until it turns out that you need to dismount from them behind the range of effective fire of the same machine gun - and then, under its fire, stomp your legs towards the object.
      1. +1
        11 August 2022 16: 11
        Duc in the SVO, the brave guys from the Ukrainian MTR were quickly convinced of this, earlier there were a lot of photos of the wrecked mobiles of the "special forces" right now, apparently they ran out of auto fools on them ..
  10. -1
    11 August 2022 07: 14
    What is the meaning of the article? It's like and so anyone who is interested has long known.
  11. AAK
    0
    11 August 2022 07: 26
    In my humble opinion, the article is another nail in the cover of the popular topic that the Airborne Forces are "everything"!
  12. +2
    11 August 2022 08: 09
    The fact is that with a high-speed impact on a thin armor plate, an anti-tank grenade partially breaks through it with its body.

    This strange thesis was not subsequently confirmed. And how can a grenade break through something with its body? She has a very sensitive fuse on the very "edge". So sensitive that when shooting through bushes and grass, it is recommended not to remove the protective cap from the fuse.
  13. 0
    11 August 2022 08: 15
    Conclusion: meat is made up of meat cells, and lard is made up of fat cells!
  14. +2
    11 August 2022 08: 56
    What happens if an anti-tank grenade launcher is fired at a BMD

    It sounds like what will happen if you hit the head with a pood weight. Firstly, which BMD-1/2 or 4M, which projection for aiming, whether the car is moving or static, the type of grenade launcher and grenade itself (regular, tandem). Finally, why exactly from a grenade launcher, and specifically from BMD. There is no invulnerable technology at all, everything can be destroyed. If the topic is protection, then protection is not only armor, but also maneuverability, a low silhouette.

    This is not the first article on the topic of the Airborne Forces. Of course, it is interesting to listen to the arguments and conclusions (especially useful comments), in any case, the article deserves attention. But, to all the "reformers" of the Airborne Forces, I would like to say that it is not the Airborne Forces that should be cut, but the size of our land army should be increased. Not the BMD to make demands on heavy equipment, but to tighten up the training of motorized rifle units, to create real guard units in them for those tasks that are shifted to the Airborne Forces, making them a plug in all holes. Then we will all be happy.
  15. +1
    11 August 2022 09: 10
    A good article, really worthy of VO. Too bad there aren't many of them. Respect to the author!
  16. +1
    11 August 2022 09: 34
    But what about the anti-fragmentation Kevlar lining, similar to what is installed on the BTR-82?
    This lining weighs practically nothing, and it can save the lives of the crew and troops more than once.
  17. +1
    11 August 2022 09: 44
    It would be necessary to add the test results when firing with gratings to the article. Then you can make a more complete conclusion about ways to improve protection.
  18. -1
    11 August 2022 10: 16
    Quote: Luminman
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    We have NOT lost the flagship. Our airfields do not "self-explode"

    This is because you have not really fought anywhere since the Vietnam War. Iraq and Afghanistan don't count...

    Why doesn't this count? Are you saying that the Iraqi army is much weaker than the border army? Or are there fewer partisans in Afghanistan than there will be on the outskirts if (IF!!!) we do win? Stop lying! If fat generals are paid for lying, then I hope you don’t? Why do you need this?
    1. +1
      11 August 2022 18: 55
      They were lucky that Russia did not help the opponents of the United States, but it was necessary
  19. +2
    11 August 2022 10: 21
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    And you STILL have not even conquered half of the territory.

    You see, we have slightly different tasks. We do not need to smash Ukraine to shreds, then we will live side by side with them.
    This is the fundamental difference, your templates do not suit us.
    That is why our builders have already reached out to the liberated areas to restore the damaged infrastructure.
    This is what Americans never do.

    And then, there is no need to pretend that in Ukraine we are fighting only with dill. We are at war with all of Europe, and first of all with you. Without your help, this would have been over long ago.

    "DON'T LOSE A SINGLE BATTLE". So you never had an equivalent opponent, so it's not surprising.


    "And where did yours fight? In Chechnya? So it's still unknown who won. Actually, who PAYS tribute - then lost. You pay Chechnya a HUGE tribute."

    But they are robust and work off this money, do not forget to mention this.
  20. -1
    11 August 2022 11: 27
    Actually, it's not a secret that 2/3 of the loss of l / s during penetration comes from secondary fragments. Therefore, an anti-fragmentation lining was introduced on the BTR-82A.
    1. 0
      11 August 2022 13: 18
      Are other pepelats not worthy of this? Or is it too lazy to deal with the installation with this crap, it's too troublesome?
  21. -2
    11 August 2022 11: 44
    Quote: leks
    Here are the differences! In the United States, the army knows what responsibility is, that in which case any general or colonel will be devoured and not choked, they will sue in such a way that they will lose their pension and freedom.

    no way. same. they will devour it only if a high-profile case comes up or the journalists inflate it. and the same coverage. enough stories on the net.
    I forgot the name of the politician (he seems to have died already) who, in his youth, caused a couple of accidents on aircraft carriers and caused a lot of damage. dad admiral and no one touched. became a big politician in the USA. and fairy tales will be told about the wolf ticket.
    1. 0
      11 October 2022 14: 41
      Quote: fuffi
      I forgot the name of the politician (I think he died already)

      This is a well-known Russophobe (in fact, he has been deceased for several years) Senator John McCain. Everything was so, among other things, home from the place of service, flew on a combat aircraft, crashed into a power line))).
  22. -2
    11 August 2022 11: 47
    The first is screens, and not necessarily solid ones - ordinary gratings are also suitable. Undermining a grenade or rocket (and gratings can also destroy PG-7 grenades without an explosion) at a distance will not break through the armor, and therefore the fragmentation flow will be reduced ten times.

    The second way is to install an anti-shatter lining made of durable fabric. It will not only significantly reduce the number of penetrating fragments, but will also be useful in protecting against bullets.

    Probably here you can add the installation of elements of dynamic or / and active protection ...
  23. 0
    11 August 2022 11: 50
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    Nets for enclosures are NOT the same as SLAT ARMOR. The principle of operation is different https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MintySnappyAmurstarfish-mobile.mp4

    why do all these articles remind me of advertising brochures about miraculous powders? ))))) Isn't this the manufacturer of the gratings, did they make them? and why in this video I see how a grenade flies through the grate))) (what is the principle of its operation?) and hits the side, the beginning of the explosion, even the grenade shank has not yet flown off. and immediately the video cuts off. where is the hit result?
    is this for students?
  24. -1
    11 August 2022 11: 52
    Quote: Aviator_
    A good article, really worthy of VO. Too bad there aren't many of them. Respect to the author!

    an article in the spirit of AK it is impossible to knock out a tank, even if you shoot in bursts - why is it needed?
  25. +1
    11 August 2022 12: 18
    Strange question: hostilities have been going on for six months. For a statistical study, units of observation are more than enough.
  26. 0
    11 August 2022 12: 47
    Curious video on the topic
  27. 0
    11 August 2022 13: 48
    One of the tasks of the Airborne Forces is a raid behind enemy lines. BMD, delivery vehicle. And the fact that the Airborne Forces have been storming cities in recent wars on their technology .. well, this is for the planners. And the RPG hits many armored objects despite their security.
  28. +2
    11 August 2022 14: 33
    Back in the year 2014-15, there was a video on the network about the defeated column of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So I was separately struck by what was left of the BMD. Pancake of metal in the middle, caterpillars, a cannon and the remains of the engine. The rest was all fused. Everything looked creepy
  29. -2
    11 August 2022 15: 50
    The article is an explicit order from MO. It's like arguing, what will happen if you shift a trifle from one holey pocket into another holey pocket? So, the whole trick is that there is no change in a holey pocket. So here too. Instead of what you just say. that the equipment of the Airborne Forces is not intended for direct clashes from the word COMPLETELY, but only for the transportation of personnel, the author spread outright demagoguery.
  30. +1
    11 August 2022 16: 34
    [quote] [quote] What will happen if an anti-tank grenade launcher is fired at the BMD [/ quote
    ] [/ Quote] Incorrect question - from what? The range of our RPG products is wide, and it allows you to destroy the BMD of all variants, as well as the BMP-3, and all the main tanks of the Russian Federation. What is the question, as they say in Odessa?
  31. 0
    11 August 2022 16: 42
    And so, we learned that if you shoot from an anti-tank grenade launcher at the BMD - Khan is for him, and his crew too. And what have we actually learned?
    The problem of insufficient security of BMD and BMP has been known for a long time. And if earlier this insecurity could be parried with tactics of use, when this technique attacked the enemy in places where there is less chance of encountering anti-tank weapons. Now the big question is - are there such places at all? About 7 million RPG-9 alone have been produced around the world. And these are only officially licensed grenade launchers. But there are still its artisanal counterparts. And the RPG-7 itself is not the only one of its kind, from the hand-held reusable ones there are also the M153 SMAW, SPG-9, M18 ATGL (American recoilless rifle), Carl Gustav M2 / M3. And I have not yet indicated disposable and reusable ATGMs. Add to this the development of modern artillery and air-to-ground weapons. The modern battlefield is FLOODED with a huge amount of anti-tank weapons and precision-guided munitions with a large supply of explosives (to destroy a crew under aluminum armor, it is not necessary to penetrate the armor. An explosion close enough can simply knock out dangerous fragments from the opposite side of the armor without breaking through it. And the fragments can be quite sharp and heavy that even the anti-fragmentation lining will not stop all the fragments).

    The protection of BMD and BMP in its current form does not correspond to the realities of the battlefield. In order to carry heavy weapons (mortars, ATGMs, MANPADS, rapid-fire small-caliber artillery, etc.), it is enough to use armored vehicles or landing tankettes (like wiesel 1 and 2 in Germany, and such a tankette will have even higher security and maneuverability than armored car).

    And trying to create airborne equipment, with weapons and the ability to transport personnel, is still a dead end idea. It will be possible to return to the idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe layout of the BMD in the form in which it exists now - when transport and cargo aircraft appear with the possibility of horizontal flight and vertical takeoff and landing.
  32. 0
    11 August 2022 16: 47
    And what will happen if you get into an armored personnel carrier from a grenade launcher? Or in an MRAP (I don't know how to speak Russian), or, say, in a truck?
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. +2
    11 August 2022 17: 12
    The fact is that with a high-speed impact on a thin armor plate, an anti-tank grenade partially breaks through it with his corps. In combination with the subsequent detonation of the shaped charge, a huge amount of secondary fragments is created from the armor and, on a smaller scale, from the grenade itself.

    FAQ? This is nonsense ... What other "body" of a grenade breaks through armor when it hits? -- A thin aluminum tin can't break through anything "with its body"! Moreover, after "breaking through" the hull, form a cumulative jet - there will be no cumulative jet - the grenade funnel will flatten against the armor upon collision ... That is why the fuses of cumulative grenades are so sensitive - to explode immediately upon touching the barrier.
    And with the defeat of thin-armored armored vehicles, everything is much simpler. A banal explosion on the surface of such armor of a kilogram or two of hexogen simply breaks through the armor barrier. Purely high-explosive impact ... The cumulative jet has nothing to do with it ...
    1. +1
      11 August 2022 19: 15
      If everyone, without exception, understands that the existing armor of the BMD does not protect it from RPGs, and the problem cannot be solved without a multiple increase in the weight of the BMD, then the question naturally arises, why do we need such light vehicles at all?
  35. 0
    11 August 2022 19: 12
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    It seems like NOBODY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING.

    The idea of ​​responsibility is recognized by the court of the Russian Federation as extremism.
  36. +1
    11 August 2022 22: 44
    The fact is that with a high-speed impact on a thin armor plate, an anti-tank grenade partially breaks through it with its body

    It’s not true, the RG itself is a very delicate creature, and where the BMD-3,4 and especially the BMD-4M with armored ceramics have such weak points that the RG can pierce them without detonating explosives, this means the RG has a defective fuse.
    The most dangerous thing for RG and ATGMs when operating against lightly armored vehicles is the high-explosive impact of the warhead and then the cumulative jet, and by the way, the jet is different, ordinary copper or tantalum molybdenum or with depleted uranium, and there are such.
  37. +2
    12 August 2022 11: 26
    "... and can cause a fire if fuel tanks are damaged ..."
    A cumulative jet can cause a fire without damaging the tanks - magnesium in the armor alloy burns beautifully, with a bright white flame. I repeatedly observed this when, in winter, when working with open fire, the engine compartments of the BMD-1 caught fire, filled with junk, as expected, with engine oil, and then the armor caught fire, which they could not put out by anything - you can’t go 50 meters! How magnesium burns - everyone knows who, in childhood, didn’t crammed lessons, but did things))
    The armor for the BMD was developed with the requirements of guaranteed non-penetration by its armor-piercing BULLETS of caliber 7,62, what does grenade launchers have to do with it?
    But the question of hinged protection (active / passive) is another topic ...
  38. 0
    13 August 2022 22: 05
    what a crap...
    the next article will be "if you shoot from a 155mm cannon ..."
  39. 0
    17 August 2022 10: 51
    The article is interesting.
    But a question for the author. As far as I understood from the text, fragments of armor are formed from a breach by its high-explosive impact of the explosion of the warhead of the ammunition. But there are quite a few photos on the net (in particular, BMP-3s from the times of the 1st RCV, armored personnel carriers from the same place, armored personnel carriers from our time with SVO), where a relatively neat hole from a cumulative jet with melted edges is captured in the armor, the rest of the armor is intact. Those. it was not broken, and it was just pierced by a jet. How can this be explained, where did the fragments come from, especially in such a quantity and even more so that they were able to break through all three screens in the above tests? Those. heavy and fast.



    Thanks in advance for your reply)
  40. 0
    2 September 2022 14: 46
    The promised BMD-4M in a thousand vehicles will calm us down for the next 10 years. There we will come up with plastic with graphene, all aluminum will go to the alloys of the future
    The landing party organized a fire bag near Kherson and there they bring down the Armed Forces of Ukraine with allied artillery. For the first time, 100mm showed class.
    Fracture in SVO.
  41. 0
    11 September 2022 14: 08
    There are landing vehicles where the interior is finished with something like Kevlar. I saw this in my grandson's photo. Yes, and now the armor is not quite aluminum, but some kind of alloy, or a sandwich, in my opinion, with titanium from the side projections. But you have to ask him. Come back, I'll ask.
  42. 0
    2 October 2022 11: 24
    Better answer what will happen if you hit an anti-tank grenade launcher on a sea tanker carrying liquid gas. And is a tanker war on the sea ocean expected after the American and British enemies have destroyed our gas transport systems.
  43. 0
    8 October 2022 23: 43
    I am delighted with this article
    Indeed, an RPG grenade hitting a BMD will be terrible for the crew, and the BMD itself will feel bad ...
    Indeed, the letter "B" in the name of the BMD sounds dangerous for the crew, because it is affected by fragments and broken armor, and not by a cumulative jet.
    It remains only to write another amazing article.
    On the topic of what will happen if you shoot at a bulletproof vest from an RPG.
    I am sure that the experiment will show the inefficiency of body armor
    And that the soldier will not be killed by a jet, but by fragments of body armor and an explosive wave.
    Why do such experiments?
    Forgive me, please, but I have too much respect for TopWar to consider such articles relevant to the purposes of this resource.