New echelon of defense: "Iron Beam" on the eve of experimental combat duty

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The principle of operation of a combat laser

Israel has built and operates an advanced layered missile defense system that includes various detection systems and weapons. This year, a fundamentally new component should appear in its composition - the Magen Or combat laser complex. It is expected that it will improve some of the characteristics of the system, as well as give it new combat capabilities.

Anti-missile laser


Tentatively in 2010, Rafael and Elbit began work on a promising laser for air / missile defense. This project received several designations at once. The most famous name was Iron Beam / "Keren Barzel" ("Iron Beam"). In addition, the name "Magen Or" or Light Shield ("Light Shield") is used.



The first results of the new project were openly presented in 2014 at the Singapore Airshow. An approximate appearance of a promising complex was revealed, its main functions and characteristics were named. It has been argued that the "Iron Beam" could strengthen the existing Israeli missile defense system and become another means of interception in the near zone. The fundamental advantages of such a system over existing air defense systems were also mentioned, such as lower operating costs or the ability to work on aerodynamic targets.

At that time, the experienced "Keren Barzel" was tested at the training ground and showed its capabilities in combating various targets. Various checks and fine-tuning of the complex continued until recently, and the Rafael company regularly reported on its successes.

New echelon of defense: "Iron Beam" on the eve of experimental combat duty

The project was developed with the support of the Israeli Ministry of Defense, which indicated its prospects. However, for a long time it was only about testing and debugging, and the timing of the adoption of the laser into service was not reported. Information of this kind appeared only a few months ago.

Year plans


On February 1, Prime Minister Naftali Benet announced that a new air defense-missile defense laser system would be deployed during this year. First, it will go into trial operation, and then full-fledged combat duty will begin. More exact dates for the appearance of complexes in positions have not yet been named.

According to the prime minister, the first Iron Luch complexes will be deployed in the southern part of the country. It is these regions that are primarily shelled from the Gaza Strip, and it is proposed to additionally cover them with new weapons. In the future, Iron Beam will be deployed throughout the state. In addition, it is planned to bring this product to the international market and sell it to third countries.

It is curious that Israel plans to use not only the technical, but also the economic advantages of the new complex. Thus, N. Benet recalled that now the enemy is launching extremely simple and cheap missiles, to intercept which items worth tens of thousands of US dollars are sent. The laser will reverse this situation: a missile defense salvo will be much cheaper than a flying missile.


Laser installations in the representation of the artist

A few weeks after these statements, in mid-April, Rafael announced the completion of another test of the experienced Magen Or. During these events, they again demonstrated the ability of a laser to shoot down unguided missiles, cannon artillery ammunition, UAVs and other targets in various conditions. In addition, high operational and economic characteristics were confirmed.

In mobile version


"Light Shield" is a combat laser complex in a mobile version. All of its means are mounted on wheeled chassis, which simplifies the transfer and change of positions. Work is carried out only from the spot after a certain preparation of all the main systems.

The typical composition of the complex includes a situational illumination radar, a command post and two combat vehicles with laser systems. In this case, the composition of the battery can be changed in accordance with the wishes of the customer. He can select the radar and command post for the complex, as well as determine the required number of lasers.

The central element of the "Iron Beam" is a mobile laser system placed in a standard container for installation on a truck chassis. The container contains the power supply system and auxiliary devices. In its rear part, under the movable covers, there is a laser unit and a survey optoelectronic station.


Prototype for testing in the spring of 2022

It is known that the complex uses a fiber laser. It is mounted on a carriage with the possibility of guidance in two planes within wide sectors. Initially, it was reported that the laser power reaches tens of kilowatts, but a more accurate value was not called. This year, plans were announced to increase power to 100-150 kW. It is not excluded that such values ​​will be obtained by simultaneously "firing" two lasers at the same target.

Iron Beam is designed to intercept rocket and mortar artillery ammunition, various UAVs and other targets. The range of such objects reaches 7 km. Depending on the type of target, an impact lasting several seconds is required. The energy for this will be provided by the complex's own generator. Earlier it was reported that this principle of operation allows to reduce the cost of one "shot" to 3-4 US dollars. This year they announced its reduction to $2.

Target detection is assigned to the standard radar of the complex. It must transmit data to the command post, which is responsible for the guidance and use of combat lasers. In addition, the Light Shield command post can interact and exchange data with other air defense and missile defense elements. In particular, it is possible to work on target designation from the outside.

Laser benefits


At present, the security of Israel is provided by a layered missile defense system, which includes several systems with different capabilities. The most famous was the "Kipat Barzel" ("Iron Dome"), designed to intercept unguided missiles with a range of no more than tens of kilometers. More complex targets should hit the Kela David, Hetz, etc. complexes. All of them successfully passed the tests at one time, and the Iron Dome regularly intercepts real missiles.


Work on flying artillery ammunition

This year, the first battery of fundamentally new laser weapons will be added to missile defense systems. It is deployed in one of the most dangerous directions and will be used as an additional air defense-missile defense echelon. The goals and objectives of such a deployment are already known, and one can imagine how Keren Barzel will complement other systems and complexes.

The range of the "Iron Beam" reaches only 7 km, which seriously limits its operational capabilities. Such a complex will have to be deployed in close proximity to the protected object or settlement. In addition, the laser is subject to weather conditions and the presence of interference, which can further reduce the effective radius. This drawback will have to be taken into account in planning until the appearance of an upgraded system with an increased radius.

However, short range can be compensated by a number of positive qualities and features. So, within the assigned range, the laser is capable of hitting a wide range of ballistic and aerodynamic targets that are typical for the proposed theater of operations. The laser is easy to point and hold on the target. At the same time, a miss has practically no effect on the results of combat work: the complex can restore the aiming and attack the target again. This will give high efficiency even for maneuvering objects.


Target drone a second before destruction. The bright spot on the wing is the hot spot from the laser

Due to the economy, the Light Shield can work in position for a long time and constantly conduct “shelling”. If the defense based on such complexes is properly organized, it will be extremely difficult or even impossible to overload it. Preparation for the resumption of duty after a major raid should not be difficult and lengthy.

New echelon


Thus, a combat laser of the Iron Beam type has a number of characteristic features and strengths that will help it effectively complement existing missile defense systems. A new laser echelon will appear as part of the air defense system. It will only work in the near zone, but in this case, the Israeli army will receive a number of benefits.

However, all the advantages of laser weapons will be realized only in the indefinite future. This year, the army will receive only one Magen Or battery for experimental combat duty. How quickly it will be possible to switch to a full-fledged service and the development of serial products is a big question. However, the events of recent days, when the Iron Dome again had to work on real targets, show that Israel will not hesitate and will try to get new weapons as soon as possible.
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  1. +11
    9 August 2022 16: 05
    Combat operation will show how the laser actually works.
    I wonder how our "Peresvet" is doing there?
    1. +4
      9 August 2022 16: 47
      Quote: Sergio_7
      Combat operation will show how the laser actually works.
      I wonder how our "Peresvet" is doing there?


      "Peresvet" - no.

      We have an analogue - "Zadira".
      It seems that it has already been tested in Ukraine.

      According to the statement of Deputy Prime Minister of the Government of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov, who participated in the signing of the contract for the creation of "Zadira" by the RF Ministry of Defense, the complex is not a blinding weapon, but is intended for physical destruction of targets. It is able to destroy an unmanned aerial vehicle within 5 seconds and is capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 5 km.
      1. 0
        14 August 2022 16: 20
        We all take a deep breath. This system will not come to the AOI before 2025.
        1. -2
          14 August 2022 17: 32
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          We all take a deep breath. This system will not come to the AOI before 2025.


          Rather, the people of southern Israel need to take a deep breath.
          I hope Israel will not soon supply weapons to Ukraine.

          Yes, and from the Iskanders - no laser can save the daggers yet
    2. -5
      9 August 2022 17: 24
      Cutting the sturgeon, we get the figures - power up to 70 kW, range up to 5 kilometers, the height of the defeat is not more than 300 meters, the speed of the targets hit is clearly subsonic, perhaps no more than 1000 km / which is the maximum.
      1. +3
        9 August 2022 17: 46
        Cutting the sturgeon, what do we get


        And as a result, we will get the official answer of Academician Aleksandrov to the Central Committee of the CPSU to the question of creating ground-based laser weapons (this was just the answer to the Central Committee for SDI).
        Seekers, let them find out, I’m too lazy to look for these quotes on the Internet for the sake of reference, they are all with justification and cumbersome enough for a comment under the article.
      2. +2
        9 August 2022 19: 32
        Quote: Thrifty
        Cutting the sturgeon, we get the figures - power up to 70 kW, range up to 5 kilometers, the height of the defeat is not more than 300 meters, the speed of the targets hit is clearly subsonic, perhaps no more than 1000 km / which is the maximum.

        Well, I understand the damage to the drone, low speed, thin material, long exposure time. And the projectile? It must be detected, aimed at it with a beam and held until the desired effect is obtained. It flies fast, only 3-7 seconds. Doubtful
        1. +6
          10 August 2022 09: 48
          Quote: SKVichyakow
          Doubtfully

          I want to add that the projectile has a fairly strong, thick-walled body that can withstand pressure and temperature when fired. It takes time to heat the projectile either for destruction or for initialization of the charge, and the laser power is not small. According to the shells, it seems to me that they zvizdanuli slightly.
          1. 0
            10 August 2022 21: 09
            A 30kw industrial machine saws 100mm of steel at a speed of half a meter per minute...
            1. +2
              11 August 2022 00: 32
              I will quote
              https://topwar.ru/38405-himera-lazernyh-mirazhey.html
              "Dazzling, thin, straight, like a needle, a beam ..."
              "Thin as a needle," the beam of engineer Garin's hyperboloid remained at a distance determined by the size of the room in the Blackbird Hotel - and in this sense, Alexei Tolstoy did not sin against scientific truth. At large distances, the fundamental physical law of diffraction divergence begins to manifest itself clearly.
              In the best, ideal case (the active medium of the laser is absolutely homogeneous, the energy input into the medium is also absolutely uniform), the half angle of expansion of the light cone is equal to the quotient of the wavelength divided by the diameter of the output window.
              Further, simple arithmetic shows that already at a distance of 10 km, the base of the radiation cone will have (at best, with a divergence equal to the diffraction one) a diameter of 1,5 m and an area of ​​18 thousand square meters. cm.
              There are various estimates of the thermal energy required to destroy the target, they all fit in the range from 1 to 20 kJ per square meter. see For example, for the complete evaporation of 1 square. cm of a duralumin sheet 3 mm thick, you need to “pump” 8–10 kJ into it. The bullet at the exit from the AKM barrel carries about 4,4 kJ per sq. cm. But even the smallest of the above figures (1 kJ) means that laser "shooting" at a distance of 10 km will require keeping the radiation spot on the target for 160 seconds. During this time, a subsonic cruise missile will fly 45 km.
            2. +5
              11 August 2022 05: 22
              cm from the radiation source. The atmosphere is different.
              Have you seen shots of blows under high magnification? Is haze so characteristic? This haze acts on the laser beam in the same way, it is quickly sprayed.
              In addition, the beam itself is far from ideal, it looks like a stick at a distance of hundreds of meters. And then it's already a cone, even in a vacuum. Plus haze.
              Also, light haze. These are particles that absorb light. The laser heats them, giving off energy. Lots of energy.
              All this together reduces the energy acting on the attacked object to an indecent level already in kilometers.
              Increasing the laser power will not only not improve the situation, but, on the contrary, will cause channel ionization. Plasma does not transmit radiation at all. In general, this means that the plasma retains the energy of a nuclear explosion (a fireball is it) and even a supernova explosion gets stuck for several weeks inside the outer layers of the star's plasma.
              Therefore, back in the 60s and 70s, our scientists knew that there was no benefit from laser piu-piu. Which, in other matters, neither our nor American scientists interfered with sawing on this topic.
              I really hope that Peresvet and Badass are blinding lasers and not weapons. Otherwise, responsible people need to be imprisoned.
              1. 0
                13 September 2022 23: 03
                "Increasing the laser power will not only not improve the situation, but, on the contrary, will cause channel ionization" ///
                ---
                This problem was solved in a simple way.
                They send not one beam, but several. Sometimes
                A few dozens.
                The targeting system focuses them all into one spot on the target.
                The beams do not interfere with each other. No ionization.
                1. 0
                  2 November 2022 10: 15
                  There was one funny development in the noughties - ionizing lasers and a Marx generator for supplying an electrical impulse to a target through punched channels. The project closed due to technical difficulties and exorbitant costs.
                  And on the topic of the material - sandstorms are not uncommon in those parts, so the Palestinians will learn to shoot when the air is dusty and nothing really is visible.
                  Most IMHO, it is likely that the laser is created to cripple the Arab population, by highlighting the villages, or by addressing windows and just individual people within sight. The IR laser causes irreversible blindness when it enters the eye, it is impossible to cure a retinal burn. At the same time, since the complex is formally air defense, the conventions are not violated.
            3. +3
              11 August 2022 10: 31
              Quote: Cottodraton
              A 30kw industrial machine saws 100mm of steel at a speed of half a meter per minute...

              Simply gorgeous, but there is a nuance. At what distance is the laser from the workpiece, how long is the exposure? Now increase the distance by 4-5 orders of magnitude (I will remind you of this by 10000-100000 times), reduce the time by 2-3 orders of magnitude and then you can see how much iron this installation will cut.
            4. 0
              12 August 2022 05: 02
              From a distance of 5 mm. As the distance to the cutting object increases, the situation will change.
              1. 0
                13 August 2022 16: 21
                Quote: realist
                As the distance to the cutting object increases, the situation will change.

                Moreover, cardinally, I don’t remember exactly, the dependence is inversely proportional to the square of the distance, or exponentially.
                1. 0
                  13 August 2022 18: 15
                  These are the details that no one wants to take into account.
            5. 0
              30 September 2022 15: 22
              That is point blank.
              Also, I suppose the surface is treated so that it does not reflect.

              And here it is far away and you can make a mirror surface.
          2. -1
            13 August 2022 13: 48
            They definitely pushed the shells. The laser is too tough for them. Drones and subsonic missiles are his field. It's not bad too!
          3. 0
            8 October 2022 21: 28
            little of! the projectile rotates in flight. You will have to heat ALL cast iron drying. in 3-5 seconds you need to transfer an awesome amount of energy. even in a vacuum
      3. +4
        10 August 2022 08: 49
        Quote: Thrifty
        up to 5 kilometers, the height of the defeat is not more than 300 meters

        Interesting arithmetic.
        Quote: Thrifty
        the speed of the targets hit is clearly subsonic

        You can immediately see the specialist.
        1. 0
          11 August 2022 07: 02
          Quote: Negro
          Interesting arithmetic.

          Well, it’s always harder to throw in length than in height! Physics, sir! laughing
      4. 0
        13 August 2022 20: 26
        In any case, it is necessary to adopt, constantly upgrade, if necessary, use without hesitation ...
  2. -2
    9 August 2022 16: 18
    Due to the economy, the Light Shield can work in position for a long time and constantly conduct “shelling”.

    Well, yes, but will electricity appear "from dampness"?
    If you disrupt the power supply, then you can forget about this "wunderwaffle". Power supply from generators cannot be "economical" because of the huge requirements for the required power. Especially not to mention the possibility of interrupting the supply of fuel.
    Yes, and it is much easier to overload the identification and target designation system, especially in bad weather conditions.
    In the end, they can make missiles with a thicker body, even to the detriment of the amount of explosive and it is possible to "heat" this one until the very moment it hits the target. Yes
    This is too "niche" weapon, which still needs to be improved and improved.
    1. +4
      9 August 2022 16: 33
      Quote: K-50
      In the end, they can make missiles with a thicker body, even to the detriment of the amount of explosive and you can "heat" this one until the very moment it hits the target

      At the time of advertising their SDI, the Americans also intended to shoot down Soviet ICBMs with laser beams. Ours, it seems, in response, planned to make a reflective coating, and even with the rotation of the rocket body, in order to prevent the laser from focusing on the ICBM body.
      1. +1
        9 August 2022 17: 25
        I remember how Western journalists interviewed Gorbachev, somewhere in the middle of the 90s, so he said that the Soviet space program was cheaper and more efficient than their SDI program.
      2. +1
        9 August 2022 17: 27
        Ours, it seems, in response, planned to make a reflective coating, and even with the rotation of the rocket body, in order to prevent the laser from focusing on the ICBM body
        It is more profitable to make an ablative coating there, as on the "bottom" of the descent spacecraft, and on the warheads themselves. Plus, the rotation of the rocket around the longitudinal axis and ... Get tired of burning it.
        1. 0
          10 August 2022 09: 18
          Quote: abrakadabre
          Willing to burn.

          The task is not to make arrivals impossible, but to make them more expensive and, accordingly, less massive. Plus, the more difficult it is to make another prodigy, the easier it is for Jews to cover the place where it is produced.
          1. +1
            10 August 2022 09: 50
            The task is not to make arrivals impossible, but to make them more expensive and, accordingly, less massive.
            Ablative coating is just the same is not expensive. Only resins with filler, which burn in layers in a controlled manner. These are not 40 individual ceramic tiles to cover "Buran".
            1. 0
              10 August 2022 14: 58
              We are talking about Katyusha rockets from a water pipe.
              1. -1
                10 August 2022 22: 43
                the destruction of the first "Katyusharockets" creates a cloud of opaque smoke. the effectiveness of this wunerwaffel drops sharply ... after the 10th, eighteen trunks and the whole sky is in parrots ... where the hell will you get
                1. 0
                  11 August 2022 08: 18
                  Quote: Vlodek
                  the destruction of the first "Katyusharockets" creates a cloud of opaque smoke

                  No, of course, there is not enough powerful warhead. Mortar mine in fact.
                  1. 0
                    30 September 2022 15: 25
                    We make 50% of the rockets "smoke".
                    And the laser is like "oh, that's it."
                    1. 0
                      4 October 2022 15: 29
                      "smoke" does not "explode", it smolders. And the "veil" installation systems are too expensive for the "Misl Katyusha Style".
                      1. -1
                        4 October 2022 16: 33
                        There are those who are fired from the tank turret - they still explode.
                      2. 0
                        5 October 2022 08: 15
                        Once again, please read my post carefully.
                      3. -1
                        5 October 2022 12: 21
                        Isn't it that on the tower it's not a "pack of smoke" (there were also such "barrels" that were thrown from the rear of the tank)?

                        I thought the "veil setting system" is where they pour fuel somehow in a tricky way on the engine, and it smokes. wassat
                      4. 0
                        7 October 2022 09: 08
                        If fuel is supplied to the engine, this is already called "sabotage" and is executed in the form of a bottle with an oil-gasoline mixture and a rag as a fuse. wassat
                      5. 0
                        7 October 2022 12: 45
                        Yes, there is such a method. It gives smoke quite well, but it still illuminates strongly, and sometimes it rattles. wassat

                        I'm about
                        The T-62 is equipped with thermal smoke equipment, standard for Soviet / Russian tanks, which ensures the installation of a smoke screen up to 400 m wide, which, in calm weather, lasts for four minutes

                        It seems like fuel is dripping somewhere there, it heats up but does not burn, but evaporates. And when you go outside - it goes nuts and is besieged by fog.
                        As long as there is fuel, you can do many times.
                      6. 0
                        7 October 2022 13: 00
                        It seems like fuel is dripping somewhere there, it heats up but does not burn, but evaporates. And when you go outside - it goes nuts and is besieged by fog.

                        Well, firstly, not fuel, but most likely glycerin, and secondly, if you evaporate the fuel, then this thermobaric charge is already obtained. wassat
                        Although diesel fumes do not seem to be combustible. what
                      7. +1
                        7 October 2022 13: 47
                        No, they don't carry glycerin.
                        It looks like this (there is a binding in time).
                        https://youtu.be/gArsx0m5yTs?t=455
                        (I can’t vouch for the sound, I’m sitting without a sound)

                        But is it possible to circle around the enemy like that and strike a match - there is no information. wassat
                      8. +1
                        7 October 2022 13: 58
                        But is it possible to circle around the enemy like that and strike a match - there is no information. wassat

                        Well, if you splash gasoline, then it will be possible for sure if the enemy does not light up earlier) wassat
              2. 0
                13 August 2022 17: 39
                We are talking about Katyusha rockets from a water pipe.
                No, we are talking about the prospects for countering laser interception / destruction of attacking missiles.
    2. -2
      9 August 2022 16: 34
      Quote: K-50
      In the end, they can make missiles with a thicker body, even to the detriment of the amount of explosive and it is possible to "heat" this one until the very moment it hits the target.
      This is too "niche" weapon, which still needs to be improved and improved.

      "Yes, you are right, but the opposite result is also possible" (Vysotsky) If missiles are made in a garage, then yes, but if Iran is "delivered", then request
    3. 0
      9 August 2022 17: 57
      And also on rockets, also taking into account the reduction in the mass of explosives, it is possible to apply a layer of evaporating substance. While the projectile / missile flies to the target, this layer will burn out at the beginning, taking heat with it. It will help even more if the rocket / projectile will rotate.
      You can also develop special highly reflective materials (conditional foil or incredibly clean white paint), then, in combination with increased wall thickness, the firing time of the rocket will increase and this will reduce the efficiency of the laser system.
      In addition, lasers are highly dependent on the weather. In fog or heavy rainfall, its effectiveness is reduced.

      That's exactly where lasers are needed - it's in space. Yes, there is a problem of heat removal, but in extreme cases, for the first time, we can get by with just large radiators with the possibility of orientation. Although, given that the nuclear tug project is gradually approaching implementation, its radiators can be used for such satellites. There is no atmosphere in space to scatter a laser beam. Most satellites will not be able to survive the laser "flare" without consequences. In the most mild case, optical systems for determining orientation in space and optical observation systems will suffer. At worst, high temperatures will destroy power and communication systems. You can tritely burn solar panels and satellite antennas, and without power and communications, the satellite is useless. At the same time, unlike missiles, such destruction does not clog the orbit with thousands of fragments.

      On the ground, lasers can become effective means of air defense only when we learn how to create compact sources of electricity and room temperature superconductors. Under such conditions, we will be able to create such powerful lasers that the influence of the atmosphere will not be enough to reduce the strength of the beam. And hitting such a beam, rockets and shells will simply evaporate.
      1. 0
        9 August 2022 18: 38
        Options for increasing protection against LO are known - this is an ablative coating, and aerosol spraying in response to an increase in target temperature, and coatings that increase reflection, and coatings that reduce EPR and make it difficult to detect a target, and finally planning massive attacks in seasons with difficult weather conditions, and. etc. The fact that it will not be some kind of "van derwaffe" - most likely will not. But it can completely protect against gas cylinders launched by the most cave bearded men. The advantage of Israel in this case is that it does not have such a wide front of a potential attack, a well-known direction - it will not require much from the complex, for the most part, just be operational in action.
        1. +1
          10 August 2022 20: 42
          The trick here is: no matter how bad this laser is, if they start to defend against it, then the characteristics of the missiles will deteriorate, and they are not a fountain anyway. And if they don’t start, then the laser will be able to shoot them down. Win anyway.
    4. 0
      10 August 2022 09: 16
      Quote: K-50
      huge power requirements.

      Maximum 200 l/s generator power. You seem to have written it.
      Quote: K-50
      Especially not to mention the possibility of interrupting the supply of fuel.

      Are you going to interrupt Israel's fuel supply? Good luck.
      Quote: K-50
      In the end, they can make rockets with a thicker body, even to the detriment of the amount of explosive

      Yes, this is the easiest way. Plus rotation and application of a mirror film. How much this is enough - time will tell.
      Quote: K-50
      This is too "niche" weapon

      There is a specific task - to protect Sderot and Ashkelon, which are at a direct line of sight from Gaza.
      1. 0
        10 August 2022 14: 44
        Quote: Negro
        Maximum 200 l/s generator power. You seem to have written it.


        I applaud lying down ... :)
        Where do you get the information about the overall efficiency of laser systems? From Lohokid Martin's advertising booklets and Popular Mechanics magazine? :)

        Quote: Negro
        Yes, this is the easiest way. Plus rotation and application of a mirror film. How much this is enough - time will tell.


        In the past period, the mass enthusiasm for lasers lasted almost 40 years. :) Thick-walled pipes are produced in the world in a really huge amount. And Hezbollons will go in the easiest way, I assure you. They will simply launch blanks along with rockets. A piece of thick-walled pipe with a powder charge and no charge at all. And let the "burners" warm it.
        1. +4
          10 August 2022 15: 01

          Where do you get the information about the overall efficiency of laser systems?


          If 150 kW is the output power, and not the input, then as much as 800 l / s will be needed, the engine is from the BMP.
          Quote: abc_alex
          They will simply launch blanks along with rockets.


          Well, let yourself. For the price of two, but at least six bucks per shot, the balance is positive in any case.
        2. +1
          11 August 2022 05: 26
          The ballistics of the blank will show that it does not need to be attacked. Ballistics is being analyzed now.
      2. 0
        12 August 2022 05: 30
        150 kW is a little more than 200 horses, taking into account the efficiency of the generator, an engine will need 250 horses, and this is a diesel fuel consumption of 50 liters per hour, for gasoline all 100, in general, not a lot, but the weight of the kit will be noticeable
  3. +3
    9 August 2022 16: 25
    there is something to learn from them, which means we can develop further
    as they said: "learning is light, not learning is darkness"
  4. -1
    9 August 2022 16: 25
    Drankel and Zhrankel and their Iron Caput
  5. -7
    9 August 2022 16: 45
    I wonder if Hezbollah, when they take over the territory for Israel, will be able to use this "Iron Beam"?
    1. +2
      10 August 2022 09: 19
      When he picks up, then we'll see.
      1. -1
        10 August 2022 19: 15
        Yes, I was not interested in this, but how many patriots of Israel are now on the site))
        So you can watch now, judging by the minuses 11 bully
  6. 0
    9 August 2022 17: 07
    They have money to throw to the wind, let them throw it.
  7. +3
    9 August 2022 17: 16
    For the fight against "flying pipes" and in the conditions of the Israeli climate, the thing is very promising. It would be interesting to look at its use in repelling a massive strike!
  8. -4
    9 August 2022 17: 18
    It is necessary to prompt the Palestinians to launch the first rockets with aerosol and chaff...
    1. +1
      9 August 2022 17: 28
      Let them let it rain or cloudy. For a laser, the obstacle is simply insurmountable.
      1. +1
        10 August 2022 09: 21
        If the window of opportunity for Hamas is limited to days with rain and low clouds in the Gaza region, then the idea is beaten back by 100500%.
        1. 0
          30 September 2022 15: 33
          Considering that Israel lies heavily under the US - maybe there will be time, we will help Hamas and others.
    2. +1
      10 August 2022 16: 51
      Minus "your" Galkin, JUDAS!!!
      1. 0
        4 October 2022 15: 41
        Yes, there are plenty of cowardly minusers here.
  9. +4
    9 August 2022 17: 23
    Well done Israelis. As stated above, there is much to learn. I hope our scientists are also at work.
    1. +1
      11 August 2022 05: 28
      This is a classic drink. You don't need to learn it.
  10. R
    -1
    9 August 2022 17: 32
    Cartoons Naftali (on) ? laughing
  11. -1
    9 August 2022 18: 21
    I don't understand anything! They have a Kalashnikov assault rifle! They call it Galil. Why else all sorts of lasers and iron domes?
  12. +1
    9 August 2022 18: 36
    Laser weapons are already weapons of the present. Whoever learns faster is right. Like with drones.
    1. -1
      11 August 2022 05: 29
      The first versions of such laser weapons appeared in the 60s. It is quite logical that if things are still there, then something is wrong with this weapon. Physics vs.
  13. 0
    9 August 2022 18: 55
    cannon artillery ammunition

    As for the time and distance to the flying projectile, blown and rotating: it is extremely doubtful that any noticeable energy will be focused on it.
  14. +1
    9 August 2022 19: 15
    Three enemy missiles in a salvo with an interval of seconds. The first one is shot down by a laser, but it is designed for this - during the explosion it creates a cloud that masks the second missile. The second one is also knocked down by the laser, but it also creates a large-scale interference during the explosion. The third missile, camouflaged behind the "smoke screens" of the explosions of the first two missiles, reaches its target.
    1. 0
      9 August 2022 20: 15
      Two black unguided missiles and one white flying in circles are fired.
      At the same time, half a dozen mini-drones, dropped from a high-altitude drone a kilometer away and having passed to the coordinates along the terrain and forest, are stuck into the unmasked laser each with an RKG-3 cumulative grenade.
      The Chinese have created a swarm of drones capable of autonomously flying through dense forests and interacting with each other.
    2. -1
      11 August 2022 05: 30
      The cloud will be max 20 meters, which the second rocket will fly in 0.01s. How next?
  15. +1
    9 August 2022 20: 32
    I'm just thinking:
    1) there are no fundamental (physical) restrictions. No one doubts that a sufficiently powerful laser, acting long enough, will damage or destroy the target. It's up to the small - the solution of engineering problems. Where to get this "sufficient" power?.. How to keep it on the target "long enough"?
    2) no one will run away from bullets the speed of light. It is possible (fundamentally possible, not engineering) to accompany the laser with any of the existing targets, with their maximum speeds. Including projectiles, bullets, etc.
    3) theoretically (not practically) it is possible to create a laser with the cost of hitting a target in the cost of energy spent. And a conditionally infinite "stock of cartridges" IDKFA.

    These are all undeniable advantages. They have one minus. They are theoretical.

    Is there laser protection? Of course! There are already exactly working solutions of the kind of reflective, ablative (burn-out) coatings mentioned in the comments, aircraft rotation, which excludes focusing on one point, etc. And active protection of all kinds. Also undeniably possible theoretically. The question is implementation.

    Lasers are just a round of the arms race, budgets. I think we'll see it in action soon.
    1. KCA
      +2
      10 August 2022 09: 07
      The efficiency of fiber lasers does not exceed 35%; for 150 kW, you need a current source for half a megawatt, if a diesel generator is not weak, it will eat diesel fuel on the database, only connect to an outlet, and then not to any, well, or a mobile nuclear power plant
      1. 0
        10 August 2022 13: 27
        We need a ton somewhere, and these products
        Switching energy-intensive capacitor (IKE) is a new type of powerful power source. In size, it is even smaller than the 6ST-60EM battery. Previously, such capacitors were used to power combat lasers.
        https://www.drive2.ru/l/1726285/

        leave the sale page,
        http://pzrd.ru/index.php/produktsiya
        back in business.
        1. KCA
          0
          10 August 2022 14: 16
          Ionistors are good, but they won’t provide a continuous beam on the target, an impulse in a split second and reload
          1. 0
            10 August 2022 15: 31
            Naturally. However, they are all packet-pulse. It's about stored and delivered energy.
            Let's say they created as much as a megawatt of constant light power, and the projectile is in the affected area for many seconds, but it's fast, all the way there is an enormous heat exchange with the air.
            A quarter-meter spot of light transferred 1/10 of its area to the projectile, of which 90% was reflected by the metal, not every thermal imager will notice the rest.
    2. 0
      10 August 2022 20: 43
      Quote: Proctologist
      1) there are no fundamental (physical) restrictions.
      Yes: a more or less powerful laser beam ionizes the air, which will begin to intensively absorb its energy. Focusing several beams at one point is a very difficult task, here at least one beam should be kept at one point of a moving target at a decent distance.
    3. 0
      11 August 2022 16: 41
      It has many fundamental fundamental limitations, otherwise it would have been used since the 60s, when the first attempts were made to use these lasers.
      Fundamental limitations of the beam alone:
      1. Diffraction (show stopper).
      2. Scattering in a turbulent atmosphere (showstopper).
      3. Aerosols, especially water ones, are very limiting. It's not even about rain or fog, but just a light haze, which we usually don't even pay attention to.
      4. With increasing power - ionization of the atmosphere. Showstopper.
      At tens of kilometers from the most powerful laser, there is just a multi-meter flashlight.
  16. 0
    10 August 2022 13: 30
    "It is expected that it will improve some of the characteristics of the system, as well as give it new combat capabilities.[i][/i]." - again for twenty-five years now. What will improve, how? Laser as a rangefinder - YES, laser as a weapon - NO!
  17. 0
    10 August 2022 21: 05
    By the way, they were used the other day, during the last outbreak of the conflict, huh?
  18. -1
    10 August 2022 22: 07
    If the target flies at a speed of 600 km / h = 163,3 m / s. How to ensure the action of the laser on a point for several seconds? What if the speed is higher? Or is the system not working automatically? The iron dome was also touted, but it misses homemade rockets. It is necessary in parallel for some kind of anti-aircraft spark to stand, for reliability.
  19. 0
    11 August 2022 08: 35
    Let the specials go ahead. rockets / shells, which, when intercepted by a laser (when radiation is detected), turn on a smoke generator and put up a curtain. The next missiles fly inside the curtain.
    When firing from the MLRS, it is convenient, the part of the package that starts first is the curtain directors.

    In general, you can also make RS with false targets, to overload the IR, heat and radio guidance channels.

    Of course, a significant part of the MLRS salvo will be occupied by jammers, but the rest will get a chance.
  20. 0
    11 August 2022 10: 19
    Thanks to the author of the article for getting acquainted with this Israeli development. I wonder why they don’t write anything about our “Peresvet”, they chose the name and ...., it’s still not clear what it does - it blinds, creates interference or burns through.

    It seems that something similar needs to be tested near the Kursk and Belgorod regions, and like Israel, it will be only complementary protection, not the main one, and there is no risk. The main thing is the protection of the civilian population.
  21. +1
    11 August 2022 13: 56
    Quote: Andriuha077
    I will quote
    https://topwar.ru/38405-himera-lazernyh-mirazhey.html
    "Dazzling, thin, straight, like a needle, a beam ..."
    "Thin as a needle," the beam of engineer Garin's hyperboloid remained at a distance determined by the size of the room in the Blackbird Hotel - and in this sense, Alexei Tolstoy did not sin against scientific truth. At large distances, the fundamental physical law of diffraction divergence begins to manifest itself clearly.
    In the best, ideal case (the active medium of the laser is absolutely homogeneous, the energy input into the medium is also absolutely uniform), the half angle of expansion of the light cone is equal to the quotient of the wavelength divided by the diameter of the output window.
    Further, simple arithmetic shows that already at a distance of 10 km, the base of the radiation cone will have (at best, with a divergence equal to the diffraction one) a diameter of 1,5 m and an area of ​​18 thousand square meters. cm.
    There are various estimates of the thermal energy required to destroy the target, they all fit in the range from 1 to 20 kJ per square meter. see For example, for the complete evaporation of 1 square. cm of a duralumin sheet 3 mm thick, you need to “pump” 8–10 kJ into it. The bullet at the exit from the AKM barrel carries about 4,4 kJ per sq. cm. But even the smallest of the above figures (1 kJ) means that laser "shooting" at a distance of 10 km will require keeping the radiation spot on the target for 160 seconds. During this time, a subsonic cruise missile will fly 45 km.

    Add the following to your math: (Excerpt from article)
    Technical reasons (according to the source - Zarubin P.V. "Academician Basov ...") consisted in the fact that at a micron wavelength of laser radiation it was practically impossible to focus the beam on a relatively small area. Those. if the target is at a distance of more than 100 km, then the natural angular divergence of optical laser radiation in the atmosphere as a result of scattering is 0,0001 deg. This was established in the Institute of Atmospheric Optics at the Siberian Branch of the USSR Academy of Sciences in Tomsk, specially created to ensure the implementation of the program for creating laser weapons, which was headed by Acad. V.E. Zuev. From this it followed that the spot of laser radiation at a distance of 100 km would have a diameter of at least 20 meters, and the energy density over an area of ​​1 cm2 at a total laser source energy of 1 MJ would be less than 0,1 J/cm2. This is too little - in order to hit a rocket (create a 1 cm2 hole in it by depressurizing it), more than 1 kJ / cm2 is required "
    Laser radiation in the atmosphere.
    https://studbooks.net/1352721/matematika_himiya_fizika/lazernoe_izluchenie_atmosfere
    Scattering of the beam by the atmosphere - THIS IS THE MAIN hindrance of the application. All that you cited is true for a vacuum. In space. Here, at home, things are much worse. For laser weapons, of course.
    An interesting excerpt from the article, at the link:
    From the point of view of propagation conditions through the atmosphere, taking into account its nonlinear and turbulent properties, the pulse mode with a duration of the order of milliseconds at a beam aperture of 1 m is considered optimal.
    Installation with a front lens of 1,2 meters, and an impulse send, in milliseconds. Therefore, the beam power should be ....... Other parameters of the beam time sharply worsen the air conductivity, due to dynamic processes from the impact.
  22. 0
    12 August 2022 22: 52
    Based on the article, we can conclude that while the Jewish laser is not omnipotent, the time has not yet come and until the technologies have been obtained to use the beam without hindrance due to the difference in the atmosphere, etc. But the Jews have already come close to a new weapon. It is bad that it cannot be compared with our successes in this direction.
    1. 0
      19 August 2022 02: 27
      Quote: Anchonsha
      Based on the article, we can conclude that while the Jewish laser is not omnipotent, the time has not yet come

      In Soviet times, when testing a laser installation, it was sent to a US satellite. The Americans expressed indignation at attempts to spoil their satellite with a unit not intended for combat operations. In the 50 years since those events, technology has stepped forward. Perhaps laser weapons can simply disable the control equipment for high-precision projectiles. And the instantaneous evaporation of metal from the surface of the projectile is a microexplosion that can cause the projectile to detonate. This weapon can reduce the effectiveness of drones.
      1. 0
        19 August 2022 15: 31
        The laser vaporizes something in meters from the installation. In kilometers - it's just a bright flashlight.
  23. 0
    21 September 2022 09: 27
    100kw, 150kw, 300kw.
    Seems like a lot of power. But what matters is not the power, but the amount of energy that reaches the goal, and the goal is high-speed. Those. the impulse must be short, because keeping a high-speed target with a beam for even a few seconds is not easy, even if the target does not maneuver.
    And how much energy can be transferred in 1 second if the power is 150 kW?
    Approximately as much as a 40 W electric light bulb consumes in 1 hour. So, do not boil a small pot of water. Sadness, however.
    To destroy real air targets, such as a fighter or a tactical missile, peak power of tens of megawatts is needed, however.
  24. 0
    30 September 2022 15: 39
    Isn't power given inversely with the square of the distance?
    And this is without taking into account interference (layers of air, dust, sand, fog, rain, smoke).
  25. 0
    6 October 2022 15: 48
    Quote: bulvas
    I hope Israel will not soon supply weapons to Ukraine.

    And do not expect.
    Israel almost officially supports the Ukroreich by sending its IDF instructors.
    43 of them were captured, but were immediately returned to their homeland, after a formidable rebuff from Tel Aviv.
    They say the Israelis put pressure on the "Faberge" of influential people whose relatives have teudat-zeuts in Israel. Allegedly, they could be deprived of their citizenship and sent to Russia.
  26. 0
    11 October 2022 08: 31
    how effective will the laser be if the target has a surface with a high degree of light reflection like a mirror? .. I think the efficiency will be about zero ..
  27. 0
    28 October 2022 23: 05
    I wonder who stole more from whom - Israel from Russia or vice versa?
  28. 0
    30 October 2022 19: 34
    If the defense based on such complexes is properly organized, it will be extremely difficult or even impossible to overload it.

    From what ku-ku such a system can not be overloaded? Taking into account the fact that in order to destroy a missile, it is required to fix a light spot on the body for several seconds (the flight of a missile at short distances is also several seconds), any salvo launch of missiles, if there are more than two of them (taking into account the fact that there are two lasers), will overload this missile defense system.

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