Surrogate 7,92-mm anti-aircraft machine gun mounts of the German armed forces during the Second World War

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Surrogate 7,92-mm anti-aircraft machine gun mounts of the German armed forces during the Second World War

During the Great Patriotic War, small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery and anti-aircraft machine-gun installations were the main means of enemy air defense in the front line. It was from the fire of the MZA and ZPU that the Soviet attack aircraft and short-range bombers suffered the main losses during air strikes on positions and concentrations of enemy troops, transport hubs and columns on the march. At the final stage of the war, after the Luftwaffe lost air superiority, the role of ground defense increased. Pilots of Soviet attack aircraft and dive bombers noted that the destructive fire of German rapid-fire anti-aircraft guns remained very dense until the surrender of the Nazi troops.

The armed forces of Nazi Germany had very effective anti-aircraft guns of small, medium and large caliber. Small German units could use rifle-caliber infantry machine guns mounted on special anti-aircraft mounts and tripods against aircraft operating at low altitudes. In addition, German troops actively used captured machine guns and artillery mounts captured in other countries. It can be stated that among the warring armies, it was the German troops who had the best anti-aircraft cover, and this situation remained until the end of hostilities.



If in the first half of the war German industry successfully compensated for the loss of anti-aircraft machine-gun and artillery mounts lost during the battles, then starting from 1943, the enemy began to actively use surrogate anti-aircraft mounts created on the basis of machine guns and small-caliber machine guns that were not originally intended for this guns. The production volumes of such improvised anti-aircraft weapons were very significant, which partly made it possible to make up for losses.

Anti-aircraft machine gun mounts of a rifle caliber of the German armed forces during the Second World War


Before starting a story about surrogate machine-gun installations, created, as they say, on the knee in the military armory workshops, briefly consider regular German ZPU.

At the initial stage of World War II, the Wehrmacht battalion had twin Zwillingssockel 36 anti-aircraft machine guns mounted on horse-drawn carts or vehicles. A number of 7,92-mm "sparks" were placed on railway platforms and armored vehicles.


Anti-aircraft machine gun Zwillingssockel 36

This ZPU was officially put into service in 1936 and was produced in a planned manner until 1941.


Installation in which two MG machine guns were used. 34, provided a circular shelling of air targets, with elevation angles from -14 to + 73 °. According to reference data, the ZPU could fire at air targets at a distance of more than 1 m. In reality, the effective range of fire at air targets did not exceed 000 m, the ceiling - 600 m. , cartridge boxes with tapes for 500 rounds and control handles.

The machine guns had a single descent, an annular anti-aircraft sight was located on the bracket. The combat rate of fire in short bursts was 240–300 rds / min, and in long bursts - up to 800 rds / min. The total rate of fire was high - up to 2 rds / min. Nutrition MG. 400, used in the ZPU Zwillingssockel 34, was carried out with tapes from a box of 36 or 150 rounds.


In addition to the twin installation, the troops had MG machine guns. 34, mounted on Dreiben 34 anti-aircraft tripods and equipped with appropriate sights. If necessary, it was possible to mount a conventional light machine gun taken from a line unit on an anti-aircraft tripod.


Due to the fact that it was easier to use such installations at the forefront than paired ones, they were popular among the troops. Although the ZPU with one machine gun did not have such a density of fire as the Zwillingssockel 36, it had a high flexibility of use, simple design, relatively low weight and high maneuverability. However, the regular machine gun MG. 34 also allowed for the possibility of anti-aircraft fire using a special Lafettenaufsatzstück anti-aircraft rack, although with less convenience.


With the use of machine guns MG. 34, a small number of quadruple ZPUs were created semi-handicraft. The total rate of fire in such an installation was 4 rds / min - twice as much as that of the Soviet quad 800-mm anti-aircraft machine gun installation M7,62 mod. 4, which used four Maxim machine guns mod. 1931/1910 Since the machine guns MG. 30 were air-cooled, the mass of the German installation was significantly lower.


As a trophy, our troops captured the ZPU, which used 18 MG machine guns. 34. In a second, such an installation fired approximately 360 bullets. But this ZPU was too bulky and inconvenient to maintain. In addition, in the conditions of constant machine-gun hunger experienced by the Wehrmacht, such use of machine guns was irrational.

The troops of the second line, which carried out the protection and defense of rear facilities, had modernized machine guns MG. 08, mounted on sliding tripods that allow firing at high elevation angles, and equipped with anti-aircraft sights and shoulder rests, the rate of fire reached 650 rds / min.


This weapon was a German version of the Hiram Maxim machine gun and entered service before the First World War. By the mid-1930s, the MG. 08 was considered obsolete. Its mass was more than 60 kg, which hindered the maneuverability of infantry units. However, this durable, albeit somewhat overweight weapon was highly reliable and could deliver intense fire without the risk of overheating the barrel. When the crew did not need to carry weapons over a long distance, the outdated water-cooled machine gun performed very well.

By the time the German attack on the Soviet Union, the first line troops had a certain number of MG machine guns. 13. The scheme of operation of the automation of this machine gun largely repeated the MG. 08, but at the same time there was a refusal from the water cooling of the barrel and from the tape feed. Barrel on MG. 13 became removable. The machine gun used 75-round drums or a 25-round box magazine. The weight of the unloaded weapon was 13,3 kg, the rate of fire was up to 600 rds / min. To reduce the size of the tubular stock with a folding shoulder rest folded to the right. Some of the machine guns were mounted on tripod anti-aircraft mounts and equipped with an annular sight.


MG. 13 on anti-aircraft machine

Although MG. 13 was significantly lighter than the standard Reichswehr MG light machine gun. 08/15, he did not suit the military. Machine gun MG. 13 had many drawbacks: the complexity of the design, the lengthy change of the barrel and the high cost of production. The store-bought power supply system caused complaints, which increased the weight of the carried ammunition load and reduced the combat rate of fire, which made the machine gun ineffective when firing intensively from the machine gun. In this regard, MG. 13 was produced relatively little, its production continued until the end of 1934, until the much more successful MG went into production. 34.

In addition to German machine guns to combat aviation at low altitude, the German armed forces used the Czechoslovakian ZB-26 and ZB-30 light machine guns, as well as the ZB-53 machine guns chambered in 7,92 × 57 mm, adopted by the German army.


Machine gun ZB-53 in position for anti-aircraft shooting

Due to the high quality of workmanship, reliability and good performance, the machine guns produced at the Zbrojovka Brno enterprise were actively used by security and police units, as well as in the Waffen-SS formations. In total, the German army received 31 light and 204 machine guns of Czech production.

In addition to Czech machine guns, the enemy made limited use of captured Polish machine guns Ckm wz. 30, which was a modification of the American Browning M1917 chambered for the German cartridge 7,92 × 57 mm. Regular tripod machine gun Ckm wz. 30 allowed anti-aircraft fire.


Machine gun Ckm wz. 30 in anti-aircraft position

By the time the mass production of the MG. 42, the German command came to understand that with an increase in flight speed and an increase in the security of combat aircraft, the role of rifle-caliber anti-aircraft installations decreased.


An American soldier with a captured twin anti-aircraft gun MG. 42

However, M.G. 42 was often mounted in universal turrets on armored vehicles, and a small number of twin anti-aircraft guns were produced.

Surrogate anti-aircraft machine gun installations


In the summer of 1941, improvised anti-aircraft machine gun mounts appeared on the Luftwaffe field airfields, located within the reach of Soviet close bombers and attack aircraft, in which 7,92-mm machine guns were used, dismantled from German combat aircraft that could not be restored.

This practice became widespread in 1943, when new German fighters, attack aircraft and bombers began to arm only 13,2–15 mm machine guns and 20–30 mm cannons, after which a large number of rifle-caliber aircraft machine guns accumulated in warehouses.

With minimal modifications, the turret machine gun MG could be used for anti-aircraft fire. 15 caliber 7,92 mm. In fact, for this it only needed to be installed on a sufficiently long vertical rack with a hinge and ensure stability. The necessary sights on the machine gun were available.


Calculation with anti-aircraft machine gun MG. 15 at the field airfield

Sometimes the protection of German field airfields did not bother with the creation of specialized anti-aircraft tripods, the manufacture of which required time and materials.


In this case, the turret rack, dismantled from the aircraft, together with a machine gun, was hammered into the end of a log vertically dug into the ground.

Machine gun MG. 15 is based on the MG light machine gun. 30, which, in turn, traced its lineage from the S2-100, created in 1929 by the Swiss company Waffenfabrik Solothurn AG. Official adoption of MG. 15 entered service in 1936. In total, more than 17 machine guns were produced.


7,92 mm aircraft turret machine gun MG. fifteen

Machine gun MG. 15 was light enough, without cartridges, it weighed 8,1 kg, length - 1 mm. Rate of fire: 090–900 rds/min But taking into account the fact that the 1-round double drum magazine so beloved by the Germans was used to feed the machine gun with cartridges, the practical rate of fire left much to be desired.

To compensate for the "machine gun hunger" several thousand MG machine guns. 15, stored in warehouses and dismantled from aircraft, began to be massively modified for the needs of the Luftwaffe airfield divisions. Taken from MG aircraft. 15 were mounted on tripod mounts of Norwegian m/29 Browning machine guns and converted into light machine guns. A significant amount of MG. 15 received lightweight factory-made aluminum alloy anti-aircraft tripods.

After MG. 15 turn came to machine guns MG. 17 with belt feed, designed for firing through the area swept by the propeller, with a synchronizer in fixed firing installations.


7,92 mm aircraft machine gun MG. 17

Machine gun MG. 17 structurally had a lot in common with the MG. 15. Its drum-type feeder used a one-piece metal belt with a semi-closed link to feed cartridges, and a practical rate of fire compared to the MG. 15 was slightly higher. The rate of fire without the use of a synchronizer is up to 1 rds / min.
The mass of the machine gun without ammunition was 10,2 kg, length - 1 mm.

By 1943, several thousand MG machine guns had accumulated in warehouses. 17, and they tried to install them on machines from MG. 34. However, this experience was not very successful, the loading system, trigger mechanism and sights required a lot of refinement. As a result, most of the MG. 17 were used in twin and quad anti-aircraft installations.


Quadruple anti-aircraft installation of machine guns MG. 17

Machine guns were mounted on frames welded from metal pipes. The electric trigger was replaced by a mechanical one, and the reloading system was also reworked.


Twin anti-aircraft installation MG. 17 in position

Taking into account the rather high rate of fire and the presence of a belt feed, these ZPUs performed well.

The 7,92 mm MG aircraft machine gun was also used in noticeable volumes in anti-aircraft installations. 81. This is a weapon that largely repeats the design of the MG. 34 was created and manufactured by Mauser Werke AG.


7,92 mm aircraft machine gun MG. 81

Machine gun MG. 81 was supposed to replace the MG. 15 and MG. 17. Serial production was launched in 1939. Since by that time there were an abundance of early samples, in stationary offensive machine gun mounts MG. 81 was used to a limited extent.

This weapon was mainly used in defensive mobile turrets, mechanized and manual installations. When creating MG. 81 Germans managed to come close to the rate of fire of the Soviet ShKAS aviation machine gun. Rate of fire MG. 81 reached 1 rds / min. The machine gun weighing 600 kg had a length of 6,5 mm.

German machine gun MG. 81 compared to the Soviet ShKAS was lighter and more technologically advanced. But already at the beginning of World War II, rifle-caliber aircraft machine guns often had insufficient power to destroy all-metal aircraft; from the beginning of 1939 to the end of 1944, more than 46 MG machine guns were produced. 000 of all modifications.

To increase the mass of a second salvo when used in a turret, a twin modification of the MG was developed. 81Z (German zwilling - twin) with a rate of fire up to 3 rds / min. To control fire, a pistol grip with a trigger was located on the left machine gun.


7,92 mm aircraft machine gun MG. 81Z

Anti-aircraft installations with machine guns MG. 81 and MG. 81Z were used in ZPU, covering German airfields from low-altitude Soviet air strikes. The composition of the calculations usually included ground technical personnel, including gunsmiths, capable of competently servicing machine guns and making repairs.


However, as the situation on the fronts worsened, the Luftwaffe was forced to share its reserves. Part MG. 81 was converted into manual, and anti-aircraft “sparks” were very often installed on self-propelled chassis.

To provide air defense airfields using MG. 81, an eight-barreled anti-aircraft gun was created, the rate of fire of which reached 12 rds / min.


Due to the bulkiness and considerable mass, the eight-barrel installations were placed in stationary positions.

Very successful aviation machine guns MG. 81 and MG. 81Z, according to a complex of combat and service-operational characteristics, were best suited for use as part of light rifle-caliber anti-aircraft machine gun mounts. In the post-war period, part of the MG. 81 and MG. 81Z was converted to the 7,62x51 mm NATO standard cartridge and was used by the armed forces of Western countries on transport and combat helicopters and patrol boats.

Ammunition for 7,92 mm German anti-aircraft machine guns


In order to make it clearer what kind of threat the German machine gun mounts posed for our aircraft, let's take a closer look at 7,92 mm ammunition.

During the Second World War, a 7,92 × 57 mm cartridge with a muzzle energy of 3–700 J was used to fire from German rifles and machine guns. Most often it was ammunition equipped with an Ss bullet (German: Schweres spitzgeschoß - pointed heavy) weighing 4 g. Such a bullet accelerated in a 100 mm barrel up to 12,8 m / s.


Cartridges 7,92 × 57 mm Mauser with Ss bullet

For firing from anti-aircraft 7,92-mm machine guns, the Germans very widely used cartridges with armor-piercing bullets SmK (German: Spitzgeschoß mit Kern - pointed with a core). At a distance of 100 m, this 11,5 g bullet with an initial velocity of 785 m/s could normally penetrate 12 mm armor. The ammunition of anti-aircraft machine guns could also include cartridges with armor-piercing incendiary bullets PmK - (German: Phosphor mit Kern - phosphorus with a core). There were also cartridges with armor-piercing incendiary bullets PmK

To correct anti-aircraft fire, every 3-5 ordinary or armor-piercing cartridges were loaded into the machine-gun belt with an armor-piercing tracer bullet SmK L'spur - (German: Spitzgeschoß mit Kern Leuchtspur - pointed tracer with a core).


7,92 mm armor-piercing tracer cartridge SmK L'spur

Its tracer burned at a range of up to 1 m, which exceeded the range of effective fire on air targets for weapons of 000 mm caliber. In addition to adjustment and target designation, an armor-piercing tracer cartridge, when breaking through the wall of a gas tank, could ignite fuel vapors.

For firing from aircraft machine guns of normal rifle caliber, the Germans used special cartridges with a bullet marked with a green stripe, intended only for this weapon. They used an enhanced combat charge, which significantly increased the muzzle velocity of the bullet. Such cartridges had the letter V in the designation (German: Verbessert - improved).

Aviation ammunition included 7,92-mm machine-gun cartridges with several types of armor-piercing tracer, armor-piercing incendiary tracer and sighting (explosive) bullets: 7.9 mm Patrone SmK-V; 7.9 mm Patrone SmK L'spur 100/600-V; 7.9 mm Patrone SmK G'Spur-V; 7.9 mm Patrone PmK-V and 7.9 mm B-Patrone-V.

The effectiveness of 7,92-mm anti-aircraft installations on air targets


7,92-mm bullets of special types at distances up to 600 m posed a great danger to units and assemblies not covered by armor. When they hit the fuel tank, they were able to ignite gasoline vapors, and breaking through the cabin wall, they could kill or seriously injure the pilot.

In the initial period of the war, the Soviet command was forced to attract fighter aircraft for assault operations against the advancing German troops. For bombing and assault attacks on the enemy, we widely used outdated I-15bis, I-153 and I-16 fighters, on which, from special protection, at best, there was only an armored back, and the tanks were not protected. At the same time, old-type fighters with air-cooled engines had good protection when fired from the front hemisphere, the more modern MiG-3, Yak-1 and LaGG-3 with liquid-cooled engines were quite vulnerable even to a single chamber of the water radiator.

Rifle-caliber bullets posed a danger not only to fighters used as attack aircraft, but also to front-line bombers: Su-2, Yak-2, Yak-4, SB-2, Ar-2, Pe-2 - which, acting on small altitude, often made several visits to the target.

In 1941, when the enemy broke through the front, the command of the Red Army sent long-range bombers DB-3, Il-4 and Er-2 during daylight hours to suicidal attacks. In order to accurately cover the enemy’s manpower, vehicles and military equipment with bombs, the bombers had to descend to a height of several hundred meters, falling into the zone of effective fire of anti-aircraft machine guns.

The Il-2 attack aircraft was the least vulnerable to shelling with rifle-caliber bullets. On this aircraft, the engine, cockpit and fuel tanks were covered with a streamlined armored hull and armored partitions with a thickness of 4 to 12 mm. The steel armor included in the power pack was complemented by multi-layer bulletproof glass. The windshield withstood shelling with armor-piercing 7,92-mm bullets fired at close range. The armor protection of the cockpit and engine, due to the significant angles of contact with the armor, in most cases did not break through armor-piercing rifle-caliber bullets.

Often, attack aircraft returned from a sortie, which had dozens, and sometimes hundreds of holes from bullets and fragments of anti-aircraft shells. Archival sources say that 52% of the hits were on the wing and the unarmored part behind the cockpit, 20% of the damage related to the fuselage as a whole. The engine and hoods received 4% damage, and the radiators, cab and rear gas tank received 3% damage each.

However, these statistics cannot be unconditionally trusted. There is reason to believe that there were many more IL-2s shot down due to hitting critical parts: the engine, cockpit, gas tanks and radiators. In most cases, the experts who conducted the inspection of aircraft that received combat damage did not have the opportunity to examine the attack aircraft hit by anti-aircraft fire in the target area.

It is known that during the Great Patriotic War, about half of the patients in Soviet hospitals had injuries to their limbs. But this does not mean that the bullets do not hit the head and chest. This is evidence that those who received bullet wounds to the head and chest in most cases die on the spot. Therefore, drawing conclusions only on the basis of damage to returned aircraft is a mistake. The planes and fuselage, riddled with bullets and fragments, do not need additional protection measures. Their strength was enough to continue the flight even with extensive damage to the skin and power pack.

Of course, the IL-2 was very well protected from 7,92 mm bullets. As a rule, they did not penetrate armor, and their destructive effect on the power elements of the attack aircraft design with single hits turned out to be insignificant. But at the same time, it would be wrong to say that rifle-caliber ZPUs were absolutely powerless against armored attack aircraft. A dense burst of a rapid-fire machine gun could well have caused damage that impeded the completion of a combat mission.

In addition, on double vehicles, the shooter's cabin was not covered at all by armor from below and from the side. Many authors who write about the combat use of the Il-2 lose sight of the fact that in the depths of enemy defenses, Soviet attack aircraft had to fly at low altitudes, bypassing areas with a high concentration of anti-aircraft artillery, avoiding encounters with enemy fighters. At the same time, a long flight with closed oil cooler armored shutters was impossible.

According to the memoirs of test pilot and cosmonaut Georgy Timofeevich Beregovoy, who flew an Il-2 during the war years, he made an emergency landing in the forest after he received a machine-gun burst into the oil cooler while moving away from the target. In addition, pilots, especially young ones, often forgot to close the oil cooler dampers over the target.

Even taking into account the fact that the enemy had a large number of rapid-firing artillery anti-aircraft guns, the active use of rifle-caliber ZPU continued until the surrender of the German troops. Of course, at the final stage of the war, the role of 7,92-mm anti-aircraft machine guns in providing military air defense was no longer the same as in 1941, but anti-aircraft machine gun installations occupied their niche until the end of the war, due to their low weight, versatility and ease of use.

To be continued ...
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143 comments
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  1. +4
    10 August 2022 16: 20
    For bombing and assault attacks on the enemy, we widely used outdated I-15bis, I-153 and I-16 fighters, on which, from special protection, at best, there was only an armored back, and the tanks were not protected
    and located under the pilot's seat ...
    In the USSR, he also used aircraft machine guns as anti-aircraft guns.
    Here are PV, DA-2 and ShKAS


    1. +5
      10 August 2022 16: 44
      Gas tanks I-15/153/16 were located between the engine and the dashboard. The tank was not installed under the pilot's seat.
      But there was no protection from below. The "seat" of the pilot's seat was made of simple steel and "did not hold a bullet."
  2. +9
    10 August 2022 16: 22
    Sergei! drinks Just a breath of fresh air for the last two days. fellow The second day on the "history" - not a single article. Bang - and here Bongo's article is in service. good However, I bow! drinks
    1. +6
      11 August 2022 06: 20
      Quote: Pan Kohanku
      Sergei! drinks Just a breath of fresh air for the last two days. fellow The second day on the "history" - not a single article. Bang - and here Bongo's article is in service. good However, I bow! drinks

      Nikolai, welcome! drinks
      Frankly, I'm tired of reading about Ukraine. Moreover, many authors writing about events in a neighboring country or about weapons used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine are overly biased and not very reliable.
      1. +4
        11 August 2022 08: 34
        Quote: Bongo
        Twin anti-aircraft installation MG. 17 in position

        hi
        What kind of reels with cartridge belts are installed on this memory?
        1. +4
          11 August 2022 09: 44
          Drum feeder hi
          1. +3
            11 August 2022 10: 50
            Quote from Nikoha2010
            Drum feeder

            hi
            Figase!
            Factory or handicraft?
            1. +5
              11 August 2022 13: 31
              Quote: Mister X
              Factory or handicraft?

              Factory
  3. +7
    10 August 2022 16: 28
    The Il-2 armored corps was just designed to protect against these, by no means "surrogate" memory units, which performed well in the Spanish Civil War. But by June 41st, the protection of the IL-2 had become irrelevant for the 20mm memory devices that the German army was equipped with. Moreover, a heavy machine could not protect itself from the German Messerschmites. It's a paradox, but the plywood attack fighter I-153 Chaika had much better survival in combat conditions. Even S.A. Khudyakov (Commander of the Air Force of the 1st Air Army), with the support of the Member of the Military Council N.A. Bulganin, wrote a letter to Stalin in September 1942, in which he asked to restore the production of I-16 and I-153 fighters. Khudyakov did this under pressure from the commander of the fighter air division Nemtsovich.
    1. +2
      11 August 2022 22: 35
      Yes, that's right. Well, the German Messerschmites were supposed to be driven away by Stalin's falcons, which, in fact, they did for almost the entire war.
  4. +7
    10 August 2022 16: 38
    God! Finally! "The Empress Rybka took pity," I mean the moderators, and posted an excellent article by Sergei, excellent because Sergei does not write others, for which he is nationally grateful! good smile drinks
    1. +7
      11 August 2022 01: 11
      Hello! Konstantin, apparently the point is in the approach to writing articles. Bongo is a "free shooter", unlike the constant hacks of the site, he writes for the soul, and besides, he is ideologically neutral and very balanced in his assessments. He operates with facts, and the conclusions are already made by the readers themselves, of course, only those who are capable of it.
      1. +4
        11 August 2022 01: 37
        Good night, Vasily! hi

        There are several excellent authors on History who also write for the soul, and without Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, we would simply wither on arms. smile
        But Sergei, yes, he stands out noticeably against the general background. drinks
        1. +2
          11 August 2022 11: 59
          hi
          and without Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, we would simply wither on arms

          Some time ago, the respected Caliber got acquainted with the Foggotenveapons on YouTube, where firearms are considered in an understandable and detailed version.
          There are 500 more articles fellow there is quality material, and text, and screen shots are now from there.
          And almost everything is "having no analogues" in Runet.

          As they say, "all the best" to the first person who wrote down the first vidos from Foggotenweapon into the Caliber article. drinks
    2. +7
      11 August 2022 06: 22
      Quote: Sea Cat
      God! Finally! "The Empress Rybka took pity," I mean the moderators, and posted an excellent article by Sergei, excellent because Sergei does not write others, for which he is nationally grateful! good smile drinks

      Kostya, hi!
      Well, how much can I cover the air defense of Poland and Romania? Moreover, other "putriots" began to whine that I was doing it too carefully.
      1. +5
        11 August 2022 06: 32
        Moreover, other "putriots" began to whine that I was doing it too carefully.
        Let them whine at "Opinions"!
        Moreover, there are practically no perfectionist authors left on the resource.
        Hello, Sergey!
        1. +4
          11 August 2022 06: 36
          Anton, hello! Well, you're the early bird, as always. I already had lunch, and you have a morning and you spend it on VO.
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Let them whine at "Opinions"!

          I don't even look at this dump. However, everyone is entitled to their opinion. At least you can see right away who is who.
          1. +3
            11 August 2022 06: 43
            I have already said more than once that I live according to the time of Yekaterinburg.)))
            1. +3
              11 August 2022 13: 34
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              I have already said more than once that I live according to the time of Yekaterinburg.)))

              So spiritually you are closer to us than to Moscow)))
              By the way, I fulfilled your request regarding Vic Nick. now everything is the will of God, i.e. editions of VO.
              1. +3
                11 August 2022 13: 40
                Thank you, Sergey!
                Well, I, in turn, will try to help Michael.
      2. +4
        11 August 2022 06: 43
        Hello, Sergey! smile

        By the end of the war, the Germans had some kind of monstrous multi-barreled shotguns, I don’t remember their markings, but just something futuristic. Do you have anything about them?

        Kudos to the wife. smile love
        1. +4
          11 August 2022 07: 18
          By the end of the war, the Germans had some kind of monstrous multi-barreled guns,
          And what was left for them to do when the sane concept of air defense ("Kammhuber line"), back in 43, was torn to shreds by the Gauleiters?
          1. +3
            11 August 2022 07: 32
            Hello Anton! fellow

            Unfortunately, no matter how I rummaged through the net, I couldn’t even find a mention of these monstrous EPUs, but I remember exactly what they were.
            1. +3
              11 August 2022 07: 39
              Hi Uncle Kostya!
              Look at the German air defense towers, maybe you can find them there.
              1. +5
                11 August 2022 07: 47
                I've already seen it, it's empty. But I didn't dream.
                "But I was not drunk, but I remember everything" (m) except for the marking of these installations, damn it.
                1. +3
                  11 August 2022 07: 50
                  "Did it - write it down, didn't do it - write it down twice"
                  1. +5
                    11 August 2022 08: 06
                    "Done - write down,


        2. +3
          11 August 2022 13: 46
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Kudos to the wife.

          Kostya, thank you! She bows to you too!
          Quote: Sea Cat
          By the end of the war, the Germans had some kind of monstrous multi-barreled shotguns, I don’t remember their markings, but just something futuristic. Do you have anything about them?

          Of the frankly monstrous multi-barrels, I know only the 128 mm twin 12,8 cm FlaK 42 Zwilling.

          Of the mass-produced multi-barreled anti-aircraft guns, the Germans had quadruple 20 mm 2,0 cm Flakvierling 38 and 30 mm 3,0 cm Flakvierling 103/38. Twin 30 mm 3,0 cm Flakzwilling MK 303 (Br) and triple 20 mm 2,0 cm Flakdriling MG 151/20 based on the aviation MG 151/20. In the next publication, we will just talk about anti-aircraft installations based on 13-15 mm aircraft machine guns and 20-30 mm cannons.
          1. +1
            11 August 2022 20: 26
            A pedestal installation with a long, curved shield studded with machine-gun barrels has been deposited in my memory. Here is how I could describe it. request
  5. +5
    10 August 2022 17: 14
    Equipment and weapons 05 2015
    Ordered to survive! part 5
    "Already at the end of 1937, a special protector was developed and put into service to protect gas tanks, which, when gasoline got on it, swelled and tightened the hole. It was a rubber sheath consisting of separate layers of rubber and cord: the first layer, glued to the surface metal, - petrol-resistant rubber, the second layer - swelling rubber, the third and fourth layers - rubberized cord, the fifth layer - petrol-resistant rubber.In total, the thickness of the shell was 8 mm. mm was 8 kg, which was quite acceptable for use in aviation. Full protection was provided against leakage of gasoline at the inlet and partially at the outlet (depending on the size of the inlet) when hit by conventional 8 mm caliber bullets. "
    1. +5
      11 August 2022 06: 24
      Quote: hohol95
      "Already at the end of 1937, a special protector was developed and put into service to protect gas tanks, which, when gasoline got on it, swelled and tightened the hole.

      This is so. Yes But on the fighters of the "old types" available in the Red Army Air Force at the beginning of the war, the tanks were not protected, but at best they were filled with neutral gas.
      1. +4
        11 August 2022 08: 25
        I-15/15bis and I-16, produced before the second half of 1939, were not equipped with sealed tanks.
        The I-153 with the M-63 engine had sealed tanks.
        The gas injection system from the engine exhaust was not installed on them.
        She appeared on the MiG-3 (July 1, 1941) and LaGG-3 (August 1, 1941).
        There were problems on the Yak-1 with a similar injection system, and it began to work fully only in the fall of 1942 from the 102nd series of the fighter!
  6. +7
    10 August 2022 17: 22
    Machine gun MG. 15 is based on the MG light machine gun. 30, which in turn traced its lineage back to the S2-100

    MG. thirty

    Weight, kg 12
    Length, mm 1170
    Cartridge 8×56 mm R
    Rate of fire
    shots/min 550-600

    Constructor Louis Stange
    Manufacturer Steyr-Mannlicher
    About 5000 were produced in total.
    1. +4
      10 August 2022 20: 34
      I specify: Weight 12,9 kg; Cartridge 7,92x57 mm (8x57 mm) Cartridges of the indicated caliber, especially the Rantovs, were abandoned in the German army since 1888.
  7. +6
    10 August 2022 17: 25
    Anti-aircraft installations with machine guns MG. 81 and MG. 81Z were used in ZPU, covering German airfields from low-altitude Soviet air strikes.
    ,,, and on submarines.

    MG81Z on U33
    1. +6
      10 August 2022 17: 43
      For a "zwilling" the distance between the hulls of the machine guns is too big.
      Rather, only two simple MG81s are installed, or in general it is an MG151 / 20 in 15mm caliber. If you pay attention to the size of the cartridges!
      1. +5
        10 August 2022 20: 54
        Quote: hohol95
        MG151/20 in 15mm. If you pay attention to the size of the cartridges

        Plus, the dimensions of the breech of the machine gun and the length of the barrel clearly hint at the fact that this is not an MG81
        1. +6
          10 August 2022 21: 20
          Actually something...
          And the breech does not look like the MG151 ...
          More like a Browning 12,7 ...
          But on a German boat... what
          1. +7
            10 August 2022 21: 39
            , it looks like
            Twin FN.32
            1. +6
              10 August 2022 21: 52
              Then not FN-32, but FN-39.
              13,2mm cal.
              The cartridges in the photo are still longer than ordinary rifle ones.
    2. +5
      10 August 2022 17: 58
      I wonder what year the photo is?

      Hello, Sergey! hi
      1. +5
        10 August 2022 18: 12
        ,,, serial production of the machine gun was mastered at the end of 1939, the boat was sunk in February 1940.
        ,,, and how they corrected me
        hohol95
        Today, 18: 43
        these are most likely two simple MG81s. Although MG81Z was also installed.
        ,,
        Such twin machine guns were also used as anti-aircraft guns on light boats and submarines.
        Equipment and weapons 2005 01
        Magazine "Technique and weapons"

        Hello Uncle Kostya hi
        1. +5
          10 August 2022 18: 21
          Yep, understandable. At the beginning of the war, such "anti-aircraft guns" on a submarine were worth something, but then they were of no use.
        2. +5
          10 August 2022 18: 55
          Is this really a U-33? hi
          1. +6
            10 August 2022 20: 36
            (Alexey)
            ..I can't say for sure. what
            1. +6
              10 August 2022 21: 34
              MG151 was installed on some boats of the IX series. But the submariners did not like them and they were later removed.
              And U-33 is a 7A-series boat.
              Italian "BREDA" 13,2mm were installed on the boats that were in the Mediterranean Sea.
              1. +5
                10 August 2022 21: 54
                MG151
                ,, put on torpedo boats.

                1. +4
                  10 August 2022 23: 03
                  Torpedoes are not submariners.
                  They don't need to dive underwater. And there are more opportunities for servicing weapons.
            2. +4
              11 August 2022 06: 00
              "In the photo .... a really German submarine U-33 with an experimental anti-aircraft installation of two captured Mitrailleuse d'Avion Browning - FN Caliber 13,2 mm, placed in front of the wheelhouse fence. Date - 1939. There were no more such installations. "©
              1. +3
                11 August 2022 07: 50
                So still FN-39 hi hi
                They write that the Belgians shipped a batch of aviation and anti-aircraft FN-39s to the French.
                Single anti-aircraft machine guns, after the "truce" with the Teutons, the French "scattered" on their warships.
                And the Germans may have tried to pile a paired one out of two single ZPUs.
                But either they didn’t like the result or, in view of the small number of machine guns, they abandoned such an idea and gave the machine guns to the French.
                The Belgians did not produce the FN-39 machine gun during the war.
                It was produced by the Swedes under license - m39.
                And the Finns, who simply copied and pasted the Swedish m39 and converted it to the American cartridge 12,7 × 99 and called it LKk / 42.
                The Romanians had a small batch of FN-39 turrets. They then let them in to reinforce the armament of their IAR-80 fighters.
                1. +3
                  11 August 2022 08: 01
                  I can’t say anything, Alexey, because in this topic, “loshara I am”.
                  1. +3
                    11 August 2022 08: 37
                    airwar.ru
                    FN.30(39)
                    The Poles also used the "Browning legacy" in their aviation!
                    On the basis of the rkm vz.28 (Polish BAR) produced in Poland, they created the vz.37 "Puppy" machine gun with a disk drum for 96 rounds (they write that it took 91 rounds to load).
                    But they released only 339 pieces.
                2. +3
                  11 August 2022 08: 34
                  3x3zsave
                  Today, 07: 00
                  hohol95
                  Today, 08: 50

                  Oh, how many wonderful discoveries to us
                  Carries knowledge of the eternal spirit (c) hi
                  1. +4
                    11 August 2022 08: 40
                    We only have 8:39 tongue
                    And your day is already drawing to a close tongue
  8. 0
    10 August 2022 17: 56
    I am glad that the author discovered the "systematic error of the survivor." In general, thanks for the article.
  9. +3
    10 August 2022 21: 55
    Dear, Author!
    Do you have any information on the use of captured Belgian FN-39 heavy machine guns by the "Teutons"?
    1. +4
      11 August 2022 06: 26
      Quote: hohol95
      Dear, Author!
      Do you have any information on the use of captured Belgian FN-39 heavy machine guns by the "Teutons"?

      Alas, unfortunately I do not have such information. request
  10. +6
    11 August 2022 00: 06
    hi
    As always, an interesting article!

    If necessary, it was possible to mount a conventional light machine gun taken from a line unit on an anti-aircraft tripod.
    It was such a machine gun that "left a mark" in world cinema and was extremely popular even in the USSR!
    laughing

    However, M.G. 42 was often mounted in universal turrets on armored vehicles
    - In the "Big Walk" just MG42, IMHO ...
    1. +6
      11 August 2022 00: 56
      He is. smile



      Only here are the armored vehicles in the film American M3, though slightly "camouflaged" as a German.

      1. +4
        11 August 2022 09: 21
        Only here are the armored vehicles in the film American M3, though slightly "camouflaged" as a German.

        Yep, exactly. They just "beveled" their sides.
        1. +5
          11 August 2022 09: 33
          Well, you need to shoot a movie, but the toad didn’t sign the balance sheet from the Czechs to buy their OT-810, or some other political reasons. laughing
          1. +3
            11 August 2022 10: 22
            Well, you need to shoot a movie, but the toad didn’t sign the balance sheet from the Czechs to buy their OT-810, or some other political reasons.

            Ah, yes. But mind you, our "Czechs" in their films are also not really used. It seems that they began to use it most actively only in the 80s - the movie "Battle for Moscow". In other films, the role of German armored personnel carriers was played by the BTR-40 ("Check on the roads") and the BTR-152 ("Battalions ask for fire", etc.). That doesn't make these films any worse. stop


            I am glad that now the reenactors have made a bunch of replicas that are not much different from the originals in appearance. In Zelenogorsk, in the museum of retro cars, there is a high-quality replica of Sd.Kfz.222. I saw the same one on the go during the May holidays of 2010 - probably the same car. Next to it, on the right, is a replica of the "Garford" (the one that Nikolai Filatov invented).

            Well, and the replica Sd.Kfz.231 (6-rad) - I already threw you a link about a short film.
            1. +4
              11 August 2022 10: 32
              So the BTR-40 looks very brutal, a natural fascist at first sight, even without a cross on the armor. laughing
              I don't remember anything about the link.
              1. +4
                11 August 2022 10: 38
                So the BTR-40 looks very brutal, a natural fascist at first sight, even without a cross on the armor.

                Yeah, and in the movie "Across the Gobi and Khingan" they already played the role of American M3 "Scout Cars".


                I don't remember anything about the link.

                Here is the movie.

                1. +4
                  11 August 2022 10: 48
                  they have already played the role of American M3 Scout Cars.


                  So the BTR-40 was torn off from the Scout, only in the engine compartment the slope of the armor was made more rational and the roof with hatches was covered up. In our regiment there were such in the communications companies, we liked this car, only in winter you can drive oak into it, there is no stove, they put potbelly stoves, and the pipe was led out into the shooting hatch.
                  1. +3
                    11 August 2022 10: 51
                    So the BTR-40 was torn off from the "Scout"

                    So they have the same purpose. This was later invented by the BRDM.
                    We had such in the regiment in the communication companies, we liked this car

                    Yes, I remember what you said.
                    only in winter you cut oak into it, there is no stove, they put potbelly stoves, and the pipe was led out into the shooting hatch.

                    Initially, they were generally open ... The roof, EMNIP, was added after Hungary in 1956 - for later modifications.
                    1. +2
                      11 August 2022 10: 54
                      Initially, they were generally open.

                      Yes I know. smile
                      1. +2
                        11 August 2022 10: 56
                        Yes I know.

                        Did you find the BRDM-1? What is your opinion about this car?
                        Motorized riflemen in the Far East were already transferred to the BTR-60P by the time you served?
                      2. +2
                        11 August 2022 19: 52
                        She had just appeared then and no one had seen her live, only rumors circulated, one more piquant than the other. It’s hard for me to judge this car, I haven’t tried it, but the fact that this is a new word in the development of armored vehicles is understandable. And it's nice that the word is ours. smile
                  2. +1
                    11 August 2022 12: 23
                    So the BTR-40 was torn off from the "Scout" ...
                    Let me disagree!
                    Yuiy Pasholok
                    Long before Scout
                    November 16, 2020
                    To the 70th anniversary of the adoption of the BTR-40 armored personnel carrier by the Soviet Army.
                    "Between the Scout Car M1, produced in an edition of 76 copies, and the Scout Car M3A1, the most massive armored car of the Second World War, there were 7 years of improvements. In addition, the Americans, at the time of the creation of the Scout Car M1, had a suitable chassis for it. With all-wheel drive and 75-horsepower engine, as a result, a combat vehicle weighing a little less than 3,5 tons had a specific power of more than 20 hp per ton.For wheeled military vehicles at that time, this was a very decent figure. armored vehicles were GAZ-AAA with a 40-horsepower engine.
                    1. +3
                      11 August 2022 13: 19
                      Between Scout Car M1 of 76 units and Scout Car M3A1

                      Previously, it was pleasant to read "aviarmor" on pre-war American (and not only) cars. After the upgrade, this site became dull, like mammoth poop - you can’t even look at the photo properly. recourse
                      There is a not very famous (and not very smart) Australian film "Invasion. Battle for Paradise". The plot is our days, a certain union of Asian states invades proud and independent Australia (apparently, a hint at the Chinese and the carriers of the Juche idea who joined them), with all the goodies and bonuses in the form of building concentration camps and distributing juicy cuffs to local peasants. A group of brave adolescent Australopithecus forms a partisan detachment, heroically fighting against the nasty invaders, simultaneously solving their sexual issues and overcoming the problems of growing up. In short, nonsense, cranberries on snot with sugar.
                      So. I wouldn't have gone to this movie if I hadn't seen the trailer. And there ... fighting moto-Asians ... ride the M3 "Scout"! Yeah, in 2010 ... there is still some armored antiques there ...
                      Well, the movie really sucks. Suffice it to say that only four people were present at the screening in the cinema hall, two of which were me and my friend...
                      Trailer for a "patriotic Australian movie"... The M3 "Scout" is clearly visible at 1.37.

                      1. +2
                        11 August 2022 14: 50
                        I propose to compare this Australopithecus masterpiece with masterpieces from the USA '
                        "Red Dawn" 1984 and "Red Dawn" (in our box office "Elusive") from 2012!
                        In the 1984 film, the main enemies of the "demos" are communists from the USSR and Cuba.
                        The 2012 film did not include Russians and Chinese as originally planned.
                        And the US captured the troops of the DPRK!!! The North Koreans smashed the army of the "great" US!
                      2. +2
                        11 August 2022 15: 39
                        "Red Dawn" 1984

                        Yeah, the idea is one, although I have not watched a single craft from the "Red Dawn".
                        And the US captured the troops of the DPRK!!! The North Koreans smashed the army of the "great" US!

                        Juche and three crates of rice vodka work wonders!
                      3. +5
                        11 August 2022 16: 03
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Juche and three crates of rice vodka work wonders!

                        There is always David Butler for Chuhcha and rice vodka! laughing
                        "Olympus Has Fallen" forgot to mention!
                      4. +4
                        11 August 2022 16: 10
                        All three "Fall: Olympus, London and Angel" did not watch.
                        That's why I didn't include them.
                        And there are just small groups of enemies involved.
                        And in "Dawns" there are whole armies ...
                        All of these falls are like "Hotel Mumbai: Confrontation".
                        Only the hotel was really captured, and the mustache "Falls ..." is the fruit of the sick imagination of propagandists-filmmakers.
                      5. +5
                        11 August 2022 18: 15
                        Quote: hohol95
                        film propagandists.

                        Alexei! You can throw spears at them as much as you like, but! They know the profession. Unlike our home-grown, current ones. hi
                      6. +2
                        11 August 2022 20: 09
                        I'm still waiting for the Yankees to take an example from homegrown "filmmakers" and start writing "Based on true events" on such films!
                        Shooting at the same time frank "fantasy"!
                    2. +3
                      11 August 2022 20: 09
                      Let me disagree!


                      With what? After all, it is clear that I meant exactly the "Scout" that was supplied to us under Lend-Lease.

                      And wasn't it an American car that prompted our designers to create their own "scout" under the BTR-40 index?
                      1. +2
                        11 August 2022 21: 27
                        What "pushed"?
                        Bumper?
                        In the USSR, before the war, they tried to develop their own light reconnaissance vehicle.
                        I cited Pasholok's article. It contains information about what preceded the creation of the BTR-40.
                        "Scouts" only helped the Red Army gain experience in using light reconnaissance vehicles. They did not have time to develop their own car before the war.
                        Having summarized the operating experience of "Scouts" and developments in preliminary (and not only) design in the USSR, they created their own light reconnaissance vehicle - the BTR-40!
                      2. +5
                        11 August 2022 21: 42
                        Bumper?


                        Most likely, it is partially designed for this. Yes
                        Summarizing the operating experience of "Scouts"

                        I'm talking about this, but you can design anything, the whole point is in the actual setting of the finished product, and the priority here is not ours.
                      3. +2
                        11 August 2022 21: 51
                        Does it matter who was the first to invent and put on stream?
                        The Americans could afford it.
                        The USSR could not.
                        The Germans went the other way.
                        The French didn't come up with anything.
                        The British created the Daimler Dingo.
                        The Italians copied it.
                        BMP-1 was created in the USSR!
                        And everyone immediately began to create BMPs. But each country has its own way and money purse.
                        So it is with the BTR-40.
                        War is over. The chassis for the car was created. There were work.
                        The car was designed and put into production!
                        Was Scout the first...
                        This needs to be looked at...
                      4. +4
                        11 August 2022 21: 57
                        This needs to be looked at...


                        So that's what we're talking about here. smile
                      5. +2
                        11 August 2022 23: 10
                        But in terms of medium cannon armored vehicles, the USSR overtook everyone!
                        Americans in the 30s of the 20th century did nothing of the kind!
                        And the Germans were weaker in armament. You can’t even remember about British and Italian!
                      6. +4
                        11 August 2022 23: 28
                        You can’t even remember about British and Italian!

                        Why?
                        Guy Armored Car Mk.I, produced since 1939.

                        Humber Armored Car Mk.I, developed in 1039.


                        Italians - Fiat 611 autoblindo, produced since 1934.

                        Autoblinda 40/41, produced since 1939.


                        And the Americans, as they say, had nothing but money, but that was enough for them to be among the winners. laughing
                      7. +1
                        12 August 2022 00: 05
                        All these cars are late thirties. And the armament is not even 37mm.
                        They are all-wheel drive, but they are designed for action from the desert and it is not known how they would work on the Eastern Front.
                        The Americans created their M8 by 1943.
                        And one small nuance.
                        In these countries, the automotive industry was developed much better than in the USSR.
                        And during the Great Patriotic War, an upgrade was made for the production of tanks.
                      8. +3
                        12 August 2022 00: 41
                        So what? What am I doing wrong?
                      9. +2
                        12 August 2022 07: 38
                        Good morning Konstantin!
                        The first British armored car:
                        Guy Armored Car Mk.I
                        released 101, fought 6
                        armament 12,7mm.
                        The second British vehicle was built from 3 to 5 thousand, but the armament of the 15mm machine gun is clearly weaker than the Soviet 45mm gun.
                        Fitov 611 Italians planed as many as 10 pieces !!!
                        With a maximum armament of 37mm guns.
                        AB 40/41/43 - armament 8mm/20mm/47mm.
                        AB43 went into production in 44!
                        In a direct collision with the Soviet "brothers" these machines had little chance of success. Especially their pure machine gun versions!
                        And in terms of the number of cars produced, only the Humber can compete with the BA-10!
                      10. +2
                        12 August 2022 13: 00
                        Hi Aleksey!
                        Well, everything - convinced! Soviet armored vehicles are the most armored vehicles in the world! good
                        Even this one. laughing
                      11. +2
                        12 August 2022 13: 15
                        By the way, two-tower armored vehicles appeared in the British army thanks to Russian orders from Austin. Prior to that, they produced armored cars with one machine gun. And in 1917, the last batch of armored cars was generally confiscated and not sent to Russia. They sent it to France!
                      12. +2
                        12 August 2022 13: 53
                        So, it turns out that the Russian project inspired them on the Vickers 6-ton? wink

                        It turns out funny, the Russians inspired two towers, and when they got this tank to Russia, they returned everything to normal.

                        Armor zigzags. laughing
                      13. +2
                        12 August 2022 15: 32
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Armor zigzags.



                        Simulation zigzags! laughing
                      14. +3
                        12 August 2022 15: 41
                        Rather, the transformation of "female" into "male".
                        You remember that the British called their "diamonds" with machine guns "females", and those with guns "males".
                        So in this case - they created a model for "cleaning" trenches with two machine guns and a tank destroyer with a single turret and a 47mm cannon.
                        The Soviet delegation did not like it and chose a tank with two turrets, but decided to replace one machine gun with a 37mm PS-1 cannon.
                        The Finnish "Vickers" with 37mm "bofors" towers were also single!
                        In the USSR, they put a double tower with 45mm K-20.
                        With some machine guns against the anti-tank guns that appeared ...
                        So-so fun... hi
                      15. +1
                        12 August 2022 17: 00
                        Like it or not, they all burned the same way, and by the Finnish war they were already quite outdated. I read that in Spain, in captured T-26s, the Francoists planted only suicide criminals, others simply refused to fight at all. Yes, and the German T-I was no better in this regard - then a lighter.
                      16. +3
                        12 August 2022 17: 22
                        Where did you read it?
                        The Spaniards considered the T-26 the main tank!
                        The Kuomintang Chinese took the T-26 to Formosa and maintained it in combat condition until the end of the 50s of the 20th century!
                        And the Teutonic Pz.1 "Chiang Kai-shek" considered the worst tank. Worse than the Italian CV3 / 33 and the British floating Vickers Carden-Loyd M1931 !!!
                      17. +2
                        12 August 2022 17: 26
                        Where did you read it?


                        Alexander Bolnykh "XX century of tanks".
                      18. +2
                        12 August 2022 17: 30
                        I'll try to read.
                        But then the question is - Who was sitting in Italian wedges and Teutonic Pasiks -1?
                        Zombies? Who is not afraid of the bulk of bodily injuries?
                      19. +1
                        12 August 2022 17: 44
                        He also had a book called "Alexander Bolnykh Lightning War. Blitzkriegs ...", it is also about tanks mainly.

                        Who is not afraid of the bulk of bodily injuries?

                        Are the blacks really? It's hard to believe somehow.
                      20. +1
                        12 August 2022 17: 50
                        Franco's Moroccans guarded...
                      21. 0
                        12 August 2022 18: 19
                        Well, these "eagles" then "became famous" after the allies landed in Sicily and Italy, but cutting the defenseless is one thing, and driving a tank is quite another.
                      22. +1
                        12 August 2022 18: 26
                        Manage the restored tank - Third!
                        But I don’t think that the Francoists restored badly damaged cars! There were a lot of stalled and broken running cars! Crews just abandoned them!
                        And there was clearly no bloody lumps there!
                        Bryayayahnya this is about the Spanish Zekos!
                      23. -1
                        12 August 2022 18: 35
                        Bryayayahnya this is about the Spanish Zekos!


                        Unsubstantiated and not like you. request
                      24. +3
                        12 August 2022 18: 44
                        In the USSR, ZK-s were planted in restored tanks?
                        And tanks sometimes had to collect 1 out of 5 or more!
                        How were the remains of the dead removed?
                        Are there documents on refusal to climb into the tank?
                        Nemchura took a lot of pictures of burning tags and the charred bodies of our tankers nearby!
                        I have never seen similar photos from Spain!
                        And in my "sofa view" - a completely burnt-out car is the property of a scrap metal collection point!
                        No one will restore it! If there is no detonation of ammunition and fuel, then there is an effect of high temperatures on armor and mechanisms!
                        Should I explain this to the Soviet Tanker ... hi
                        And the simplest question - "ZeKov" where were they imported from?
                        The Germans taught the Spaniards for Pz.1 and still the German was a tank commander. I sat in the tower, and the Spaniard "ruled"!
                        Or were the Spaniards at that time reading the "Inhabited Island" by the Strugatsky brothers ???
                      25. +1
                        12 August 2022 19: 34
                        The Germans taught the Spaniards for Pz.1 and still the German was a tank commander.

                        I talked about captured T-26s and nothing more. If you did not come across such photos, then it does not follow that they did not exist.
                        And the simplest question - "ZeKov" where were they imported from?

                        Do you think that in Spain there were no prisons, and in them those sentenced to death? Indeed, the question is simple.
                        In general, they weren't convinced.
                        And what side are the Strugatskys here? smile
                      26. +2
                        12 August 2022 19: 48
                        In the work "Inhabited Island" opponents of the regime were put in tanks or armored vehicles!
                        But under the influence of psychotropic rays. Forced to go on the ATTACK!
                        How much did a recruit need to learn to achieve good tanker skills?
                        Or did the Spaniards become like one book hero of the Balkan War and weld the hatches of tanks?
                        So that the crew does not abandon the tank at the very first stop!
                        Is it easy and simple to teach how to shoot from a stopped tank?
                      27. +1
                        12 August 2022 20: 05
                        Yes, I read "The Island", I read it. And the movie was made lousy.

                        Is it easy and simple to teach how to shoot from a stopped tank?


                        It was much easier to shoot from those tanks than from the current ones, and it’s not a problem to train in three days, it’s more difficult with a mechanical driver, but if you don’t study the engine, then there are no problems. And they had enough time to prepare.
                      28. 0
                        12 August 2022 20: 18
                        Then why did the Teutons complain about the Spaniards that they forgot EVERYTHING they were taught?
                        And the Teutons had to go into battle on tanks ...
                      29. +1
                        12 August 2022 20: 37
                        complained about the Spaniards that they forgot EVERYTHING they were taught?

                        Features of the national character, or smoked the wrong thing,,, laughing
                      30. 0
                        12 August 2022 21: 00
                        Apparently influenced by the "smoke of cigarettes with Menthol" ...
                        Or MANTOLIT...
                        You have to ask the Geshpantsev!
                      31. +1
                        12 August 2022 22: 10
                        Or MANTOLIT...


                      32. +1
                        12 August 2022 22: 31
                        As the hero of Abdulov said in the film "Gold" -
                        "Spaniards don't rot! They dry out and don't smell!"
                        I could be wrong!
                        But the movie is worth watching...
                        Capture of Rome by the Ladsknechte...
                      33. +1
                        12 August 2022 23: 47
                        I haven’t seen the film, I can’t stand Abdulov - a rare boor, I didn’t communicate with him, but my good friend (not an actor) had the “pleasure” of working with him in the same theater, he told me ...
                      34. +3
                        12 August 2022 16: 09
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Even this one.

                        Double-towered.
                      35. +2
                        12 August 2022 16: 56
                        He is the most revolutionary bgonevich. laughing
                      36. +2
                        12 August 2022 17: 24
                        Wrong armored car - one tower!
                        In Russia, Fiat was also made with Two Towers!
                      37. +2
                        12 August 2022 17: 27
                        Wrong armored car - one tower!


                        It doesn't matter - the idea is important! laughing
                      38. +3
                        12 August 2022 17: 32
                        Idea...
                        IDEA ...
                        And de I am...
                        Old Soviet joke.
                      39. +3
                        12 August 2022 17: 45
                        Old Soviet joke.


                        Of course I remember. smile
                      40. +2
                        12 August 2022 18: 25
                        Alex, welcome!
                        About the Estonian pilots.
                        The 127th special air group under the command of Gerhard Buschmann was .... well, let's call it a "descendant" of the 22nd special air squadron of the Red Army "krasletov". hi
                        Also national.
                      41. +1
                        12 August 2022 18: 37
                        Let's call...
                        Did the NKVD pay the Estonian "kraslets"?
                        Buschmann's squadron of money and other allowances originally went through the SS line!
                        Since 1943, they began to be sent to night bombardments in the Ilmen Lake area.
                        And since the spring of 1944, the most "liquid" Estonians began to desert to Sweden !!!
                      42. +1
                        12 August 2022 18: 50
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Did the NKVD pay the Estonian "kraslets"?

                        Of course not. They were part of the Red Army.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Buschmann's squadron of money and other allowances originally went through the SS line!

                        Ideology? Actually, it looks like Goering's "graters". hi
                      43. 0
                        12 August 2022 19: 04
                        Information from the article "Estonians in the Luftwaffe"
                        Mikhail Zhirokhov
                        AIRWAR.RU
                      44. 0
                        12 August 2022 18: 41
                        Better please "dig up" information about the French squadron that fought on the Eastern Front in the ranks of the Luftwaffe !!! hi
                      45. +1
                        12 August 2022 18: 47
                        Quote: hohol95
                        French squadron fought on the Eastern Front in the ranks of the Luftwaffe !!!

                        And I will dig! For this is my "weakness." "Dig and find"! laughing hi
                      46. 0
                        12 August 2022 19: 02
                        It's just that there is no information in the Russian language...
                      47. +4
                        11 August 2022 21: 46
                        By the way, it depends on what kind of bumper, otherwise you can’t get off with one push. laughing
                      48. +2
                        11 August 2022 22: 07
                        ,,, but I wonder who was the person who pushed through the idea of ​​​​obtaining these machines under Lend-Lease.
                      49. +3
                        11 August 2022 23: 07
                        The same one who requested motorcycles with sidecars from the allies.
                        Which they didn't have!
                      50. +1
                        11 August 2022 23: 33
                        requested from the allies motorcycles with sidecars

                        ,,, and so we will get to the entire range of Lend-Lease feel
                      51. +1
                        12 August 2022 00: 07
                        The first "jeeps" were generally given by the British American "Bows" (Bantams).
            2. +2
              11 August 2022 12: 09
              Taken from the page of Yuri Pasholok -
              "... a dynamic display. They are held at the "Motors of War" every Saturday at 12:00. :11 to 00:20 Exhibition address: Rogozhsky Val street, 00, building 11."
              We are talking about a dynamic display of military equipment. Technique capable of moving under its own power passes to the delight of the audience.
      2. +4
        11 August 2022 12: 09
        hi
        Only here are the armored vehicles in the film American M3, though slightly "camouflaged" as a German.
        Yes, it looks like it. You can see on the freeze-frame - the sides were "made faceted" a little.
    2. +6
      11 August 2022 09: 35
      Most likely it is MG3.
      Although there could be MG42 from the storerooms of the film studio.
      Many German weapons were used in the film "Adventurers".
      There, Fort Bayard is in a state before it is turned into a prop for a TV game!
  11. +3
    11 August 2022 14: 06
    In the background, clearly not "Messers" and not "Fokkers":

    KMK, these are Romanian IAR-80s, oddly enough.

    Ground Luftwaffe guarding the Allied airfield?
    1. +3
      11 August 2022 14: 59
      The Romanian Air Force received Me-109 from the Germans! And fighting on the Eastern Front, they could freely be based on the same airfields as parts of the Luftwaffe. This means that the anti-aircraft gunners of the "backlash" guarded both their own and allied aircraft! Romanian, Hungarian, Slovak, Croatian and Spanish.
      1. +3
        11 August 2022 15: 49
        and Spanish

        Alexei, did Spanish planes also fight against us? hi It seemed to me that only the infantry "blue division" ... what
        1. +4
          11 August 2022 16: 03
          The pilots were Spanish!
          Received the Teutonic Me-109.
          Colors of the military sky: "blue squadrons" against red pilots
          WWII aviation Germany Spain
          Mikhail Bykov / Yuri Sergievich 16 August '16
          "The debut of the Blue Squadron"
          In the Spanish Air Force, there were also those who wanted to fight the Bolsheviks, and on July 14, the Spanish Expeditionary Aviation Squadron (Escuadrón Aéreo Expedicionario Español), better known as the Blue Fighter Squadron (Escuadrilla Azul de Caza) or simply the Blue Squadron, was formed. The color in this case was a reference both to the division and to the famous "Blue Patrol" (Patrulla Azul) of the Civil War - the Spanish link in the Italian fighter squadron.

          The commandant (major) of the Spanish Air Force Ángel Salas Larrazábal, an experienced pilot and commander, who during the civil war won 15 victories personally and five in the group, was put at the head of the squadron. Organizationally, the unit consisted of three patrols (links) of five pilots each: a commander with the rank of captain, ordinary pilots - tenente (senior lieutenants) plus two pilots at headquarters: the commander and his deputy. In total, the unit consisted of 17 people of the flight crew, all were veterans of the past war.
          Warspot.ru
          1. +4
            11 August 2022 17: 28
            The pilots were Spanish!
            Received the Teutonic Me-109.

            Stunned ... belay I didn't know about this! drinks In the Great Patriotic War, it turns out, we gathered all the "united crap of Europe" against ourselves. I am silent about the Hungarians, the Finns and the pizzaioli who joined them, but the Spaniards ... what
            1. +3
              11 August 2022 17: 45
              Many began to fight on their planes, and then the Germans had to supply them with planes of their own production.
              Slovaks and Croats were forgotten.
              The Luftwaffe themselves had enough "Aryans" from different countries of the European Union ...
              There was even an Estonian squadron with seaplanes!
    2. +5
      11 August 2022 20: 13
      ,,, Calculation of the MG-15 anti-aircraft machine gun on the defense of a German airfield. At the airport parking - Messerschmitt Bf.109 fighters. 1939 - 1940
      https://waralbum.ru/259279/
  12. +2
    11 August 2022 23: 17

    ,, otherwise they said mechanized feel carried on horseback


    [/ Center]
    1. +3
      12 August 2022 09: 41
      , otherwise they said mechanized feel on horseback drove

      I saw such a turret in Staraya Russa, in the Museum of the Northern Fleet of the Front. Just without a wagon.
      1. +4
        12 August 2022 14: 24
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        I saw such a turret in Staraya Russa, in the Museum of the Northern Fleet of the Front. Just without a wagon.

        Nikolai, ZPU Zwillingssockel 36 could be easily installed on any platform, be it a horse-drawn cart, a car body, an armored personnel carrier or a railway car.
        1. +3
          12 August 2022 15: 40
          Nikolai, ZPU Zwillingssockel 36 could be easily installed on any platform, be it a horse-drawn cart, a car body, an armored personnel carrier or a railway car.

          I thought so, Sergey, that this is a universal machine. Thank you.

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