Air intake for PAK DA: real project and versions

74

Conditional aircraft with a new air intake, drawing from the patent


Currently, PJSC Tupolev is developing a "Promising aviation complex for long-range aviation"(PAK YES). Not much is known about this project, and even the appearance of the future bomber remains a mystery. Secrecy is expected to attract attention, and also contributes to the emergence of various versions and assessments. This time, the reason for far-reaching forecasts was a utility model patent issued by Tupolev.



Unexpected find


It is well known that the Tupolev company, independently and together with related organizations, constantly conducts various research projects. Some of the results of such activities are used in real projects of aviation technology, and are also patented.

Thus, in August 2021, an application for a utility model “Aircraft Engine Air Intake” was filed with the Russian Patent Office. The authors of the invention are O.V. Bukharov, V.F. Gurov and O.O. Kataev. Patent number RU209424U1 was published on March 16, 2022. Its owner is Tupolev PJSC. The document provides a description of the air intake and air duct for a turbojet engine. Attached to it are diagrams of such a product, inscribed in the airframe of the aircraft.

At the time of publication, the patent went unnoticed. They paid attention to it only at the very end of July with the filing of Aviation Week. The latter indicated that the aircraft, schematically depicted in the patent, is similar to the description of the promising PAK DA bomber.

The publication in Aviation Week and the patent RU209424U1 itself naturally attracted attention and became the reason for new articles and discussions in specialized publications. At the same time, several main themes are noted in all publications. First of all, this is the similarity of the hypothetical PAK DA with other well-known bombers, such as the B-2 and B-21. In addition, negative forecasts are made with demonstrative confidence: under sanctions, with economic problems and without foreign components, Russia allegedly will not be able to build such an aircraft.


View from above

It should be taken into account that the reason for these discussions was only the assumption of a certain relationship between the March patent and the PAK DA program. Whether they have a real relationship to each other is unknown. Even if such a connection exists, its nature and extent also remain in question.

New design


The patent describes the design of an air intake designed to be placed on an aircraft wing near its leading edge. The design of the air duct connecting the intake device with the inlet apparatus of the turbojet engine is also given. It is noted that the proposed design gives the air intake and the channel the required strength and rigidity at all angles of attack and in all flight modes. In addition, the load on the airframe is reduced.

The attached drawing shows an irregular trapezoidal air intake on the upper surface of the wing near its edge. Behind it is placed an air duct of complex shape. It runs along the axis of the airframe and bends in a vertical area - the front section of the channel is much higher than the rear.

The air duct has a cross section in the form of a rectangle with rounded corners. Such a unit is placed and fixed inside a rigid shell with an elliptical cross section. It is the shell of the air duct that will join the power elements of the airframe and ensure the connection of all elements.

Hypothetical bomber


The design of the air intake and the method of its placement inside the airframe are shown on the example of a conventional aircraft of the “flying wing” scheme. The drawing from the patent shows a glider with several salient features. Its main part is the carrier plane. On top of it there is a rudimentary fuselage with cockpit glazing and protruding air intake units.


Longitudinal section along the duct

The wing is swept. At the same time, the leading edge is broken: the sweep of the center section is greater than that of the consoles. The trailing edge also consists of several elements. So, in the center section it has a slight negative sweep, and under it are the engine nozzles. The wing profile is also interesting, shown by the section along the air intake. A characteristic bend is provided in the front part, and due to the presence of internal units, such a section is distinguished by a large height.

The layout of the airframe is only partially clear. You can see where the cabin is placed, and how the twin-engine power plant is located. Other structural elements in the drawing are not indicated. However, one can imagine possible ways of placing the cargo compartment, fuel tanks, etc.

known and supposed


Earlier it was reported that the PAK DA bomber will be subsonic and stealthy, and will also show improved flight characteristics. To obtain such qualities, it will be built according to the “flying wing” scheme. However, some of this information has not yet been officially confirmed. The rest of the information is completely missing.

However, information about the "flying wing" was already enough to identify the conditional aircraft from the patent with a real strategic bomber. Indirect evidence of this version was some features of the aircraft from the drawing and the expected qualities of the future PAK DA. At the same time, direct evidence is not yet available - as well as explicit refutations.

To what extent the version of PAK DA in the patent corresponds to reality is not yet known. The situation will become clear only later, when the real appearance of the promising bomber will be officially revealed. It can be assumed that the current versions, if confirmed, are only partially. Only a few similarities are to be expected.


Cross section of the channel: 4 - channel itself; 5 - hard shell; 7 - attaching the shell to the airframe; 8 - structural strength element

It should be noted that patent RU209424U1 is interesting not only in the context of the promising PAK DA program. The very fact of its appearance shows that Tupolev and other domestic organizations and enterprises are conducting scientific work and creating new designs of various kinds. For well-known reasons, such developments are protected by patents.

The new patent also shows that Tupolev is studying new schemes and concepts, as well as looking for optimal solutions for them. In particular, an air intake and a curved air duct designed specifically for the "flying wing" have been developed. Such a scheme is not yet popular in the domestic aircraft industry, but it is being studied and developed.

How the patented development will be used is unknown. It can find application in promising projects of aviation technology, incl. in the class of the expected PAK YES. However, it cannot be ruled out that such a design will not find real application - although it will add to the list of potentially useful developments of our aircraft manufacturers.

Unclear future


Thus, the excitement observed on specialized resources may be unjustified. The version about the connection between the March patent and the PAK DA program does not yet have sufficient evidence, and all the available arguments are indirect. The situation will become clear only in the indefinite future, when at least the layout of the new strategic bomber will be officially shown.

However, this does not prevent us from making the most daring assumptions. Thus, the foreign press has already stated that Russia will not be able to build such an aircraft. Apparently, in the future, after the premiere of PAK DA, foreign experts will change their minds. And with the same confidence they will begin to assert that the aircraft will not reach the series and will not fall into the troops.
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74 comments
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  1. +2
    August 5 2022
    I wonder if the leak was intentionally allowed? Or purely in Russian "everything goes like clockwork, but through the ass for now"?
    1. +17
      August 5 2022
      Why deliberately? Just the secret secret of the square pipe has long been revealed! laughing

      What's new, I really don't understand...
      1. +6
        August 5 2022
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        What's new, I really don't understand...

        Vladimir, hi
        I share your confusion. Previously, the British used something similar on their Vulkan V-2 bombers.

        True, the fuselage and wing were not as "integrated" as on the brainchild of Tupolev.
        By the way, the hungfuzes on their new H-20 strategist also tried to integrate air intakes into the fuselage-wing of their car.

        It turns out - a global trend, or what!? belay
        1. 0
          August 5 2022
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          I share your confusion.

          Below there is an opinion that novelty takes place.
        2. +1
          October 10 2022
          You see, the science of aerodynamics plays a certain role in the placement of the air intake) Compare your picture and drawing in the article. See the difference?
          Some difference is caused by this. An airplane flies because it is carried by its wings and propelled by a jet engine. The engine is understandable, but what does the wings have to do with it?
          Wings create lift. But as? That's how.
          The bottom of the wing has a smaller surface area than the top. And the air flow around the wing has the property of continuity, that is, it is one. And it turns out that if you place the air intakes from below, as in your photo, the air in their zone will be denser (for a compressor, this is better), but the lifting force will decrease.
          And if from above, as in the figure in the article, the density will be somewhat lower (although this depends on many subtleties), but the lifting force will increase!
          These pictures and design approaches in them are generally unlike each other)
          1. +1
            October 10 2022
            Quote: Mikhail3
            Do you see the difference?

            Thank you. Now "saw". hi
      2. +9
        August 5 2022
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        What's new, I really don't understand...

        Novelty in the mount, so as not to create a load on the airframe, since the air duct elastically changes its dimension in different conditions.
        It is very likely that this patent is simply needed by someone to accumulate a "minimum" of publications / applications, while protecting a scientific title.
        1. +2
          August 5 2022
          Quote: Genry
          Novelty in the mount, so as not to create a load on the airframe, since the air duct elastically changes its dimension in different conditions.

          The thought was that the oval pipe is attached to something there, a set, a sheathing, it doesn’t matter, but already it crawls wink rectangular. Maybe it's new, but I doubt it. I also doubt that this is critical for a subsonic / transonic machine.
        2. +2
          August 5 2022
          Novelty in the mount, so as not to create a load on the airframe, since the air duct elastically changes its dimension in different conditions.
          It is very likely that this patent is simply needed by someone to accumulate a "minimum" of publications / applications, while protecting a scientific title.
          Most likely you are right. Only defend a degree. A "utility model" is the lowest level, above - the invention and discovery. I doubt that it has the status of a publication, although now everything is possible.
      3. +3
        August 6 2022
        Only in Hollywood, in ventilation ducts, screws do not stick out inside. wassat
        1. +1
          August 7 2022
          Quote: tralflot1832
          Only in Hollywood, in ventilation ducts, screws do not stick out inside.

          But that's a whole different story! wink
    2. +4
      August 5 2022
      Everything has been approved for a long time, and the look has been decided! Why this article is another teapot. What is the leak? B2 has been flying for a long time ...

      https://naukatehnika.com/pak-da-obrel-svoe-liczo.html
      1. -1
        August 5 2022



        This option is confirmed by a patent. Therefore, I think that this is PAK YES. Next year, according to the plan, the first samples should be collected and publicly demonstrated.
        In August 2021, PJSC Tupolev filed an application for a patent for a “utility model of an aircraft engine air intake” with the Federal Intellectual Property Service. On March 16, 2022, the office registered patent RU 209424U1. According to the drawings given in the document, it can be assumed that we are talking about a promising long-range aviation complex (PAK DA), which is being developed according to the “flying wing” scheme.


        In December 2021, Andrey Elchaninov, First Deputy Chairman of the Board of the Military Industrial Commission, spoke in an interview with Interfax about the implementation of the PAK DA project.

        “Work on PAK DA is proceeding according to schedule and provided with the necessary funding in full for the entire duration of the state contract. Deliveries of this aircraft will be provided for by the new weapons program. Two prototypes of the PAK DA engine have been manufactured, and their bench tests have begun. During them, the characteristics of the terms of reference were confirmed,” Yelchaninov said.

        https://aviation21.ru/tupolev-zapatentoval-vozduxozabornik-dlya-pak-da/

        But the engines are very interesting. There was information that there will be two engines of 23 ~ 24 tons of thrust each, that is, in fact, an analogue of the D-18T is being created, which is installed on the An-124. .Most likely, the UEC-Kuznetsov made a forced version of the 18-ton NK-56, which was created at one time for the Il-96, forcing it to 24 tons. Well, and some kind of technology from the now serial NK-32-02. At one time The D-18T was created on the basis of a Western 18-ton engine and boosted thrust to 23,4 tons.

        1. 0
          August 5 2022
          Quote from: neworange88
          But the engines are very interesting.

          Yes, very ... You are probably right, citing examples of previous developments. But it seems to me that in parallel they are working on something new. As an option, over the R-579-300 in a forced version up to 23-25 ​​tons / thrust. And in the future they are going to boost it to 45 tons / thrust (!) And what is most interesting, there are very high stakes on it: it has a flat nozzle, and it has UVT, and they want to put it on the Su-75, and on the "Hunter" ...
          Borisov, while still a vice-premier, well, he was filled with a nightingale in his address.
          So I think they put it on. I could be wrong, not a specialist in aircraft engines ... bully
          1. +2
            August 5 2022
            The R-579-300 has a cruising thrust of 13 tons and 21 tons in afterburner according to the table. But the engine for PAK DA is made by UEC-Kuznetsov, and not AMNTK Soyuz. In addition, 21 tons is not enough, you need 24 tons of thrust.


            But it seems to me that in parallel they are working on something new.


            They are working on a new 24 tonne at UEC-Kuznetsov. More economical. Something like a stage 2 engine. At the end of this year, research on it is being completed and R & D begins.

            Samara engine-building company "UEC-Kuznetsov" has started developing a gas generator for a 5th generation engine in the 18-24 tf thrust class. The new engine can be used for advanced long-range and military transport aircraft - PAK DA and PAK VTA. Research work is planned to be completed by the end of 2022. Pavel Chupin, General Designer of the company, told about this.

            R&D should end with a deep, in the scope of a technical project, study of the design, including the development of a three-dimensional geometric model, "digital twins" of the gas generator and its main components, assembly units and parts for all basic physical processes.

            https://aviation21.ru/odk-kuznecov-razrabatyvaet-gazogenerator-dlya-novogo-perspektivnogo-dvigatelya/
            1. 0
              August 5 2022
              Thanks, got it!
              I wrote - not a specialist in aircraft engines ... hi
              1. -5
                August 6 2022
                I don't understand why such a huge plane? Why do something from scratch, why these squats and not a state approach. PAK DA should be made on the basis of the Su-34, with a new engine for the Su-57, it is possible without afterburner or PD-14 .... Redo the fuselage and lineup for invisibility, apply new materials, while maintaining the general approaches and increasing in size by 1,5, 2 times ... An internal compartment between engines for 4-XNUMX "Onyx" or "Dagger", two pilots and new plumage or without it ... And I would have flown for a long time ...
                1. +2
                  August 6 2022
                  I don't understand why such a huge plane?


                  This is Long-Range Aviation. The requirements for PAK DA regarding a range of about 15 km. Of course, they will try to make it as compact as possible, but Long-Range Aviation aircraft, due to their specifics of long-range flights, are usually not compact.

                  Why do something from scratch, why these squats and not a state approach.


                  If you want a car that is relevant for decades to come and suitable for future upgrades, then it should be done only from scratch.

                  PAK DA should be made on the basis of the Su-34, with a new engine for the Su-57, it is possible without afterburner or PD-14 ....


                  How can a long-range strategic bomber be made based on a tactical fighter-bomber? belay request what
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. -1
                    August 7 2022
                    Requirements for PAK DA regarding a range of about 15 km.

                    This is a very controversial proposition. Why such a range, if hypersonic missiles can be on board. Moreover, there is a huge Tu-160M ​​flag demonstrator for cruises and visits, which everyone sees and cannot be hidden anywhere. This showcase is enough!
                    How can a long-range strategic bomber be made based on a tactical fighter-bomber?

                    It is not possible, but it is necessary! Based on a front-line nuclear bomber ...
                    And there will be no bomber and .. pants! Remember the fairy tale about 50, then 25 Tu-160M ​​... Well, what is the result? And where are the 30 modernized Tu-22M3M? BUT..?
      2. +1
        August 6 2022
        Quote: Sexton
        Everything has been approved for a long time, and the look has been decided! Why this article is another teapot. What is the leak? B2 has been flying for a long time ...

        https://naukatehnika.com/pak-da-obrel-svoe-liczo.html

        Winglets or whatever they are, they change their name every time, the Alya bomber is inconspicuous for a military aircraft, it is extremely contraindicated.
        1. 0
          August 11 2022
          Here the nozzles are in question
      3. -2
        August 6 2022
        This is drawn by a stupid cretin. Why inflate the wing to more than 2 meters in cross section?
        Engines must be mounted on pylons.
        Witnesses of the cargo cult - stealth must be shot immediately. Fucking innovators.
    3. +4
      August 5 2022
      Oh yes, top secret information. And in other countries, very stupid people work and did not come to the same conclusions. Physics is different for everyone and aerodynamics. Googling and stealing for sure laughing
    4. 0
      August 7 2022
      Quote: Thrifty
      I wonder if the leak was intentionally allowed? Or purely in Russian "everything goes like clockwork, but through the ass for now"?

      The author is fixated on PAK DA, and the "flying wing" scheme is promising for hydrogen aviation. Here is the project of a hydrogen passenger aircraft from Airbus
  2. +4
    August 5 2022
    Since an open patent has been published, it means that PAK DA will have a different design, otherwise the commission would either prohibit publication, or the authors would file an application for an invention marked "secret".
  3. -2
    August 5 2022
    If the device is planned to be subsonic, why such tricks with the air intake? Why not make a fence from the bottom. If the upper fence increases lift significantly, then I agree.
    1. +6
      August 5 2022
      Stealth. In "stealth" for the same purpose, s-shaped air ducts are used so that the turbine blades do not "shine".
      1. -1
        August 5 2022
        And where are the intakes of the B-2?
      2. +1
        August 5 2022
        so that the turbine blades do not "shine".
        Not turbines, but compressors
        1. +1
          August 5 2022
          Oh, you don't need this! A compressor is also a turbine in reverse. Turn on GrammarNazi! Yeah.
          We understood each other. Well???
    2. +4
      August 5 2022
      The air intake at the bottom increases the EPR (radar shine from below)
    3. 0
      August 5 2022
      If the device is planned to be subsonic, why such tricks with the air intake? Why not make a fence from the bottom.
      Obviously, for reasons of radar stealth. Most potential air defense and early detection radars are on the ground. That is, in the lower hemisphere. Moreover, for the success of the flight mission, it is important to reduce radio visibility from the front angle.
      This is the main reason. The rest is just a bonus.
      1. 0
        August 5 2022
        If the plane is subsonic, why bother with such difficulties. Anything above the bottom reflective surface could just be a trunk, roughly speaking.
        1. 0
          August 9 2022
          If the plane is subsonic, why bother with such difficulties. Anything above the bottom reflective surface could just be a trunk, roughly speaking.
          Where is the bizarre difficulty? All within the normal design process.
          In addition to reducing radio visibility, the entire surface of the aircraft is subject to issues of drag reduction, which affects the carrying capacity, fuel efficiency, flight stability over the entire speed range, controllability, etc. It's like a banal thing. It's amazing that I have to voice it. "Marry" all these characteristics, often mutually exclusive, and requires "to fence such difficulties."
          I can only add that although the main radars will illuminate the aircraft being created from the front and lower hemispheres (the main direction when the bomber flies with a bomb load to the target), there is still exposure from AWACS, interceptors, radar exposure from the side or rear hemisphere when maneuvering / turn / move away from the target after the impact. And it's just as banal.
  4. -2
    August 5 2022
    Thus, the foreign press has already stated that Russia will not be able to build such an aircraft.

    I remember similar conversations were about the SU-57. However...
    However, what else could they dream of?
    1. +4
      August 5 2022
      Build or launch in a series? Are there many 57s in combat units?
      1. 0
        August 7 2022
        Aircraft built? Built! Flying? Flies! Are they made for the Air Force? Yes! What else do you need from my words? I discuss the thesis
        1. 0
          August 8 2022
          This is the global problem of the Russian Federation - boltology and discussion of theses.
          From what is really well imported and, most importantly, launched to the masses, I see only the Mir payment system. Well done here, no questions, worked out for five. In all other respects (well, ok, maybe not in everything, correct me if I’m wrong somewhere), the number of words exceeds the number of deeds by an order of magnitude. Renault left - and AvtoVAZ production stopped (Kalina without ABS and ecology does not count - this is the level of the nineties). They showed Armata and the 57th, but in reality they were not in combat units, and they are not, and it is not clear when they will appear.
          1. 0
            August 9 2022
            I don’t mind chatting about this topic, but I didn’t find any complaints about my thesis) I’m talking about the fact of construction under sanctions. According to foreign experts, the construction will not work, but I am sure that it will.
            Yes, there may be questions in terms of mass and quality of such "come out". But who said it would be easy. And yes, it takes a lot of money. Again, I doubt that at the top they don’t realize the lack of SU-57, rather, the reason here is something else, and not even money. This is true my thoughts, insiders and other things I do not know.
            1. 0
              August 10 2022
              I'm talking about the fact of construction under sanctions.

              Until February, the sanctions were rather conditional, and China never introduced them.
    2. +2
      August 6 2022
      Quote: vargo
      Thus, the foreign press has already stated that Russia will not be able to build such an aircraft.

      I remember similar conversations were about the SU-57. However...
      However, what else could they dream of?

      Share a link?
      I don't remember a single piece of news over the past 12 years about what you write...
      1. -2
        August 7 2022
        Well, your memory does not have to remember everything, and not everything you could see. Of course. Like mine, it does not store links, but I remember this thesis, and there have already been similar conversations. Excuse me, I won’t spend a lot of my time looking for links for your peace of mind. I expressed my thoughts.
  5. -1
    August 5 2022
    I am always interested in aviation with only one question - what about avionics? Does he see everything? Noise-immune? How does it work with ACS online?
  6. +3
    August 5 2022
    There is nothing secret in this patent. Such an air intake simply allows you to shield the engines for radar waves. If the aircraft is subsonic, then such an air intake is quite effective.
    And about the construction - there is nothing special in the glider itself, a typical tailless, with a shape to reduce reflective planes.
    The main thing is the materials of the reflective planes and the internal filling.
    But even here there is nothing impossible for the Russian aviation industry at the current stage of its development.
    Well, Westerners always scold our developments until the moment they are applied, after which the chorus of these scolders smoothly fades away.
    1. +2
      August 6 2022
      Quote: svoroponov
      There is nothing secret in this patent. Such an air intake simply allows you to shield the engines for radar waves. If the aircraft is subsonic, then such an air intake is quite effective.
      And about the construction - there is nothing special in the glider itself, a typical tailless, with a shape to reduce reflective planes.
      The main thing is the materials of the reflective planes and the internal filling.
      But even here there is nothing impossible for the Russian aviation industry at the current stage of its development.
      Well, Westerners always scold our developments until the moment they are applied, after which the chorus of these scolders smoothly fades away.

      Westerners scold for:
      20-30 years behind our developments.
      For the fact that even having 20 years behind, they managed on the Su-57 to completely destroy stealth by opening the compressor blades to all radars, and making it structurally irremovable, which is why the Indians refused, although they invested almost $ 4 billion ...
      So it’s not a choir of scolding, but they are laughing at our designers, and nothing comes off.
      Su-57 is not a 5th generation aircraft.
      4 with pluses, but there is no creep in it from the word at all.
      1. +1
        August 6 2022
        It all depends on how far the blades are from the edge of the air intake. The farther, the worse the radar sees them and at a certain distance it no longer sees them at all.
        The Su-57 was assessed by Western experts. So, there is no laughter there, at all. As for invisibility. Such boards are poorly defined by decimeter radars. For longwave, these planes glow like Christmas trees. Therefore, our radars often operate in 2 bands or operate both long-wave and decimeter radars. By the way, over-the-horizon radars, invisible, see well.
      2. 0
        October 10 2022
        The Indians refused because they need them now, and the plane has not yet been completed. They just started testing with the engine of the 2nd stage. Yes, and for the price they wanted cheaper. How they are bargaining is mother do not worry. Here on the forum there were already examples of working and trading with Indians about any technique. Apparently we decided to wait. Or maybe (and most likely) their minister of defense or aviation was bribed by the French, so he gave them preference.
  7. 0
    August 5 2022
    The very concept of the SUBSONIC PAK YES provides that it will attack the enemy WITHOUT ENTERING its air defense zone. And since he won’t fly there, then why does he need stealth and other bells and whistles. The only thing he needs is the range and time spent on combat duty. To attack the enemy from the most unexpected direction. A sort of modified Il-96, but instead of passengers there are tanks of kerosene, and instead of luggage there are rockets. Everything else - "From the evil one."
    1. +1
      August 5 2022
      How is this why?
      Like in ninjutsu "strike from the shadows" or "crouching tiger, lurking dragon" and all that .. :)
      Tu95 glows like a Christmas tree for the new year.
      Entering the air defense zone is one thing, and entering the detection zone is much different.
      It’s unpleasant to find out that something is already flying at you and something urgently needs to be done.
      Tu160 is the opposite concept, a brazen high-speed breakthrough.
      I do not presume to judge which is more relevant
      at the moment, but if you believe the eyes and ears are several times higher ©
      With the hunter, the same dances with a tambourine on a smaller scale.
    2. +2
      August 6 2022
      Quote: Amateur
      The very concept of the SUBSONIC PAK YES provides that it will attack the enemy WITHOUT ENTERING its air defense zone. And since he won’t fly there, then why does he need stealth and other bells and whistles. The only thing he needs is the range and time spent on combat duty. To attack the enemy from the most unexpected direction. A sort of modified Il-96, but instead of passengers there are tanks of kerosene, and instead of luggage there are rockets. Everything else - "From the evil one."

      Wrong prerequisites.
      Inconspicuous aircraft, should be inconspicuous in all ranges.
      Not only radio, but also thermal.
      For the take-off of bombers is now detected precisely by the heat trail.
      Any stealth bomber, even a subsonic one, can fly closer to targets without being detected.
      Flying closer to the targets, he will be able to launch shorter-range and, accordingly, smaller missiles, and, accordingly, there may simply be more of them.
      It's one thing to launch a couple of missiles from 3000, another thing from 1500 - already 6 missiles.
      This difference is just in stealth.
  8. 0
    August 5 2022
    That's interesting.
    There really is some hype.
    Whether the patent will apply in a real product is unclear. What is there so stingy-innovative, except for the declared convenience at "different angles of attack" - is also unclear.
    Maybe there is, maybe not. Since some patents/solutions previously promoted in the media look like obvious nonsense and are not mentioned anywhere else.
    Offhand, a couple comes to mind: triangular wings for a super-high-speed helicopter, and a patent for detecting stealth aircraft by comparing a site far away with the background radiation of the universe (Somehow, literally)

    we have to wait for real information.
  9. +2
    August 5 2022
    What's the throw? Not quite clear.
    1. +4
      August 5 2022
      What's the throw? Not quite clear.

      Ryabov needs ₽ for letters.
      "Talent" from empty to empty.
      Of
      https://yandex.ru/patents/doc/RU209424U1_20220316
      И
      https://aviation21.ru/tupolev-zapatentoval-vozduxozabornik-dlya-pak-da/
      Quote: author
      It is noted that the proposed design gives the air intake and the channel the required strength and rigidity at all angles of attack and in all flight modes. In addition, the load on the airframe is reduced.

      Topic unsolved☝️
      How will the "design" provide rigidity at "all angles of attack"?
      This la will definitely not have “angles of attack” that could affect stiffness
      1. +2
        August 6 2022
        In fact, the rigidity and strength of the structure are calculated from the conditions of the most extreme operating loads. What kind of nonsense is the person writing, it is not clear? fellow
        1. +1
          August 6 2022
          Writing is his calling.
          He is like Nikifor Lyapis-Trubetskoy: a graphomaniac.
          "Served Gavrila ..."
          And the air intakes: of course, the original source meant: they will provide the required flow at any angles of attack provided for this la.
          The top location is "sick" of this
        2. Eug
          -1
          August 6 2022
          Most likely, the author implies that reaching certain angles of attack will lead to the occurrence of lateral overload, which will cause vibrations in the airframe structure, the rigidity of which will be strengthened by the elliptical shell. Or that the channel oscillations will be "quenched" by the elliptical shell, without affecting other elements of the CSS.
          1. +1
            August 6 2022
            1. This pepelats cannot reach any “such” angles of attack due to lack of opportunities. It can fly straight with slight roll, yaw and pitch.
            2. Such a design: here is power and damping: wing-"fuselage"
  10. +1
    August 5 2022
    Logic suggests that this design has little to do with PAK YES. For a simple reason, if there was, however, there is a need for a patent, then who the hell would see or recognize it in view of terrible secrecy. It has never been made available to the public. As an example of the Su-75, until the mock-up was rolled out onto the field, no one knew either in sleep or in spirit. Only then they began to remember about the model on the table at Borisov.
  11. +1
    August 5 2022
    The very fact of its appearance shows that Tupolev and other domestic organizations and enterprises are conducting scientific work and creating new designs of various kinds.
    The very fact of its appearance shows that the patent work was necessary to close the stage. The fact that a defense research institute does not issue patents does not mean at all that it does not work. Registration of patents is not an easy process, usually coincides with the closing of the stage, so they try not to get involved with it.
  12. 0
    August 5 2022
    bends vertically of space
    An obvious typo. Would fix.
  13. -2
    August 6 2022
    Quote: Amateur
    A sort of modified Il-96, but instead of passengers there are tanks of kerosene, and instead of luggage there are rockets. Everything else - "From the evil one."

    That's right, except for the relatively low strength of the airframe of passenger liners. And this is resistance to combat damage and the ability to actively maneuver over the entire range of flight altitudes. I think tailless is still better, in terms of ensuring strength and low aerodynamic drag + easy to integrate into the design of the radar antenna .
    It would be logical to get a multifunctional aircraft of the LK scheme with a take-off weight of up to 75 tons, with the maximum use of civilian equipment - avionics, engines (2 X PS-90), APU, hydro and electrical systems. Accordingly, get a cheap bomber-carrier of the KR, an AWACS aircraft, a PLO, a tanker, a UAV carrier.
    But this, of course, will not happen as long as Manturov and Chemezov are in charge of aviation in the Russian Federation.
    1. Eug
      +2
      August 6 2022
      Hydraulic systems from a civilian one will definitely not work - the LC is statically unstable in the longitudinal channel. To ensure stability, an increased (compared to civilian liners) pressure in the hydraulic system is needed (210 per passenger - 280 for the Su-27 - 350 for the Su-57). Otherwise, the speed of the hydraulic drives will be insufficient. The accompanying "bun" is a reduction in the dimensions of the actuators of the hydraulic system.
  14. -1
    August 6 2022
    Quote: kytx
    Tu160 is the opposite concept, a brazen high-speed breakthrough.

    What are you talking about - the main combat mode of the Tu-160 is subsonic.
  15. Eug
    0
    August 6 2022
    As for me, an interesting attempt to create an air channel configuration that is optimal for the engine inlet flow, enclosing it in an optimal, but already in terms of strength, power element. I think that the elliptical shell is not just "attached to the power elements of the airframe" (as in the article), but is one of the elements of the CCC.
  16. -1
    August 6 2022
    Quote: Eug
    Hydraulic systems from a civilian one will definitely not work - the LC is statically unstable in the longitudinal channel.

    You are partly right, but you can reduce the diameter of the cylinders, while maintaining the pump, drives and control system without changing it - the plane is smaller than the Tu-204, for example. At least part of the hydraulic system can be used - everything is cheaper. And the chassis, in general, can be without significant apply changes.
  17. -1
    August 6 2022
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Any stealth bomber, even a subsonic one, can fly closer to targets without being detected.

    It may be enough to carry a blizzard. The thermal footprint is the result of fuel combustion, respectively, the thermal footprint depends on the amount of fuel burned and not on the configuration of the nozzle.
  18. 0
    August 6 2022
    The b2 used levitation technology.
    It is necessary to create a hybrid engine PD 35 with product 30.
  19. 0
    August 6 2022
    He can, he can, of course he can...
    Or not?
  20. 0
    August 6 2022
    Already the drawings are even printed to the general public ...
    Wow...
    So the drawings are wrong.
    No one is correct ...... has the right to spread. hi
  21. IVZ
    0
    August 7 2022
    Patents are obtained mainly in order to have some money under the contract in the event of a serial production of the product. The novelty of a technical solution sometimes manifests itself only in writing a formula.
    1. 0
      August 11 2022
      Quote: IVZ
      Patents are obtained mainly in order to have some money under the contract in the event of a serial production of the product. The novelty of a technical solution sometimes manifests itself only in writing a formula.

      If the patent does not meet the criterion of novelty, this is a sure way to the possibility of its annulment in court. Even for a patent for a specific utility model.
  22. 0
    August 11 2022
    I am glad that there are two turbojet engines on it. So there is an economical and reliable turbojet engine with a thrust of 20-30 tons ....
  23. 0
    24 September 2022
    Air intake on top - less likely to pick up something from the runway. Perhaps the chassis is smaller. What about the use of civilian straight planes for war, then if a bomber needs to dodge or resist destruction from hits ... Well, you yourself understand, he doesn’t care about any PC.
  24. 0
    28 September 2022
    Tupolev Design Bureau is a corpse, there will be another long-term construction project.
    It was necessary to give development to Sukhoi

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