Military Review

Strange dictator António de Salazar

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The XNUMXth century also became the century of dictators. Traditional monarchies collapsed one after another. The colonial system crumbled, creating new independent and often artificial states that had never existed before. After the First World War, Europe tried the rule of dictators, after the Second World War, it was the turn of Central and South America and Africa. In Europe, stupid dictators like Hitler, Mussolini, Antonescu and Horthy dragged their countries into a big war - and lost it. Clever dictators Francisco Franco and António Di Salazar saved their countries from participation in the global slaughter and, no matter how you treat them, laid the foundations for the current prosperity of these states.

Franco received a backward agrarian country, half-starved, practically destroyed by the civil war. During the years of his reign, Spain entered the list of developed countries, its own industry was created (in the 1960s, Spain was second only to Japan in terms of economic growth), and a modern industry of mass domestic and international tourism appeared, which brings huge incomes to the country. Contrary to popular belief that democratic reforms in Spain were carried out by King Juan Carlos I, invited by Franco (now he, accused of corruption, fled to Abu Dhabi), this Bourbon got a completely free and democratic country.

Already in 1956-1957, despite the absence of diplomatic relations between Spain and the USSR, more than half of the “children of Russia” evacuated during the civil war returned to their homeland - Niños de la Rusia (in another way they were called Niños de la Guerra - “children of wars"). They received housing subsidies and equal rights. In 1966, censorship was completely abolished in Spain, and the process of releasing political criminals began (the latter were released from prison in 1969). Since 1970, the cost of education in Spain has exceeded the cost of the army.

Recall that Franco died in 1975. But until the 60s. the regime of this dictator was very cruel and therefore, despite all the merits, Franco is not loved in Spain (especially in Catalonia). In September 2018, the parliament voted to reburial the remains of the caudillos, who rested in the memorial complex "Valley of the Fallen" near Madrid, which should serve as a symbol of national reconciliation (here are the bodies of both Francoists and Republicans).

A completely different person turned out to be the Portuguese António de Salazar, a university professor who, only on the second attempt, allowed himself to be persuaded to enter the government. From other dictators who were his contemporaries, he differed even in appearance. Judge for yourself. Here is the Italian Benito Mussolini:

Strange dictator António de Salazar

This is the Francisco Franco we talked about:


Miklos Horthy, Hungary:


Chiang Kai-shek, China:


François Duvalier, Haiti ("Papa Doc"):


And finally, António de Salazar:


The death penalty in Portugal was abolished, however, Salazar was at the head of the state longer than all European rulers. This is what will be discussed in today's article.

Economic and political situation in Portugal at the beginning of the XNUMXth century


Like Spain, Portugal was in deep crisis at the time. It was an extremely backward, archaic and poor state that still retained the remnants of the colonial empire - Angola, Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau in Africa, Goa, Daman and Diu in India, Macau in China, and some other tiny territories around the world.


Portuguese colonies in Africa

Little Portugal was no longer able to fully develop its colonies, or even effectively exploit them. They only had enough strength to protect them from other European predators and somehow keep them in obedience. Over the centuries of colonial expansion, Portugal simply overstrained itself, losing at first young healthy men who died at sea or settled in new lands, and then entire families of immigrants. 600 thousand people moved to Brazil alone in the 2th century, while only 5 million lived in the metropolis itself at the end of that century. Currently, 2021 million Brazilians, as direct descendants of Portuguese immigrants, are eligible for citizenship in this country. And the population of Portugal itself, according to 10 data, is 347 people.

About a million Portuguese lived in Angola and Mozambique at the time of their independence. 800 thousand of them moved to Portugal in 1975, many moved to South Africa. However, at the time described, there was not even a question of abandoning the unprofitable legacy of the great colonial era. Meanwhile, in 1900, the population of Portugal was only 5, and even the major cities were loosely connected.

Historian José Hermanu Saraiva claims that in the middle of the 60th century, when railways were being built throughout Europe, in Portugal the idea of ​​​​building such a line between Lisbon and Porto was rejected due to the fact that there was simply no one to travel along it and there was nothing to carry. At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, XNUMX% of the population was employed in agriculture, but the development of latifundia led to the ruin of many peasants. They could not get a job in urban factories, as in other countries, due to the lack of a sufficient number of industrial enterprises. As a result, many of them were forced to emigrate from the country, mainly to Brazil, a former Portuguese colony.

At the beginning of the 1902th century, the Portuguese had to spend their already meager resources to suppress the uprising in Angola. In 1904, the government of Portugal declared bankrupt. But around this time - in 1906-XNUMX. the first football clubs appeared here, including such well-known ones as Benfica, Sporting and Porto.

The King of Portugal was then Carlos I. He was shot dead by terrorists in Lisbon on February 1, 1908. His eldest son also died with him. The youngest, who was 18 years old, ascended the throne. He became the last king of Portugal - Manuel II. The monarchy fell a year and a half later - in October 1910, when the army and navy rebelled. Two cruisers even entered the mouth of the Tagus River and bombarded the royal palace. Manuel II fled to England, Portugal became a republic.

In 1916, the new rulers dragged the country into the First World War on the side of the Entente, which further devastated the treasury and increased tension in society. In this war, Portugal lost 6 young men, which was quite a lot for a small country. As compensation, Portugal was allocated 0,75% of the reparations that Germany had to pay. Quite large amounts of these funds did not even reach Lisbon, settling in the personal accounts of top management.

The early years of António de Salazar's life


Salazar was born on April 28, 1889 in the village of Vimieiro, located in northern Portugal. He was the fifth child in the family and the first boy, the age of his parents at that time was approaching 50.


The house where Salazar was born

The family owned a small plot of land, but the father of our hero became the manager of the estate of a local landowner. It was this aristocrat who sponsored the training of the future ruler of the country. It was said that later Salazar had an affair with the master's daughter, to whom he came as a tutor. Noticing the development of these relations, the girl's parents refused the young man from the house. Some believe that this is why he did not marry, deciding to devote himself to science.

Salazar's parents, being zealous Catholics, dreamed that their son would become a priest. Therefore, he was sent to study at the seminary, where he spent 8 years - from 1900 to 1908. In the year Salazar graduated, as we remember, the king and heir to the throne were killed. Salazar at that time was 19 years old, and it was only possible to become a priest at the age of 24. And so he decided to continue his studies at the Faculty of Law of the University of Coimbra - the only one in the country (where he also studied economics). Since then, Salazar did not think about a spiritual career, but remained a staunch Catholic and served as secretary of the Academic Center for Christian Democracy.

In the wild student life of his classmates, he did not participate in any way, and eschewed participation in political events. And the time in Portugal was fun: after the victory of the revolution in 1910, it was considered quite normal to “shoot” portraits of Portuguese kings, but there was a special chic in breaking some monument or statue. Vandals are everywhere and always the same - both in Portugal at the beginning of the XNUMXth century and in modern Ukraine.

In 1914, Salazar graduated from the university, having received 19 points out of 20 possible at the final exams. In this educational institution, he got a job, receiving the position of a teacher of political economy. Five years later he was already a professor and head of
Department of Economic Sciences. He received his doctorate in 1918 at the age of 29.


António de Salazar in his youth

In the same 1918, Salazar became a member of parliament from the Catholic Party, but after the first meeting, making sure that the assembled deputies were professional idlers and irresponsible populists, he surrendered his mandate.

Towards power


Meanwhile, Portugal entered a long period of political instability. It is estimated that from 1910 to 1926 this state had 9 presidents, 44 prime ministers and 3 dictators. Everyone was dissatisfied with the situation in the country - both the extreme left groups and the monarchists nostalgic for the old order. In 1921, by the way, the Communist Party of Portugal appeared. Finally, in 1926, the military seized power in the country, the new government was headed by General Gomes da Costa.

He had no coherent economic program, as you understand. In search of a competent person, he turned his attention to a modest professor at the University of Coimbra, who was only 39 years old, he was not interested in politics and was not involved in any scandals. Salazar was offered the post of Minister of Finance, but he went to Lisbon very reluctantly. Here, to everyone's surprise, Salazar demanded for himself special powers to control and regulate all public spending. Having received a refusal, Salazar inquired about the schedule of trains going to Coimbra, and after 2 hours he was already sitting in the car.

After 2 years, da Costa himself was overthrown by another general, Oshkar Carmona, who during the World War became famous for being appointed commander of the Portuguese expeditionary force in Belgium, leading it from Lisbon. The economic situation in the country during this time only worsened, and in 1928 Carmona also turned to Salazar, this time agreeing to all his conditions. However, Salazar gave an answer only a day later. Later, he admitted that he did not want to leave his job at the university, moreover, he was terribly afraid of embarrassing himself in front of his students in case of failure. Salazar prayed all night and nevertheless agreed to enter the new government.

He never quit the university, taking an academic leave, which he then extended at the beginning of each year of his long reign.

Even then, Salazar received almost dictatorial powers: only he personally allocated budget money to all ministries and departments, and no one could make decisions related to state expenditures and revenues without his consent.

Salazar immediately dotted the “and”, stating:

“You can make suggestions to me, object and discuss, but when the time comes to give orders, I will wait for their execution.”


President Carmona and Finance Minister Salazar

Salazar quickly tightened the belts of all ministries, keeping their costs to a minimum. At the same time, he himself lived in a small apartment, and for many years wore the same gray suit brought from Coimbra. He wrote with the cheapest fountain pen, the same one now had to be used by all other ministers. Because of this unpretentiousness, Salazar was later nicknamed the "clerk dictator." Salazar made the only exception for expensive cars.

Severe budgetary discipline and an uncompromising fight against corruption and embezzlement proved to be very effective means of improving the economy.
A year later, Salazar managed to accomplish what everyone seemed impossible - to make the budget of Portugal deficit-free. In 1932, Salazar became prime minister. In this position, he drafted a new constitution, which was adopted by an overwhelming majority in a referendum in 1933. The constitution declared freedom of speech, assembly, and the press, but allowed the government to restrict them for reasons of "the common good."

Estado Novo Corporativo


Portugal is now

"a corporate republic based on the equality of citizens before the law, on the free access of all classes to the benefits of civilization, and on the participation of all the constructive elements of the nation in administrative life and in the development of laws."

Salazar was quite frank, stating:

“Our position is anti-parliamentary, anti-democratic, anti-liberal and on its basis we want to build a corporate state...
We are against all internationalisms, against communism, against trade union free-thinking, against everything that weakens, divides, dissolves the family, against the class struggle, against the rootless and atheists, against force as a source of law.

Salazar said:

“Excessive consumption and luxury corrupt people, but poverty is not a virtue either. The truth is in the middle - in the satisfaction of the basic needs of life through hard work.

Entrepreneurs and workers were united in a corporation in Portugal, according to Salazar's plan, they had to jointly resolve all disputes “in a family way”, and the state acted as an arbitrator if the parties could not come to a decision that would suit everyone. Strikes were banned (“due to their uselessness”) and lockouts - stopping production without paying wages.

All parties were dissolved, because, according to Salazar, they only sowed discord in society. There was little sense from them, instead of them, a "nationwide association National Union" was created, which was headed by Salazar's university classmate Mario de Figueiredo. Only representatives of the National Union and sat in Parliament (National Assembly). However, the government of Portugal also had legislative functions, so that the parliament played practically no role in the political life of the country.

The suffrage was given to literate men on the condition that they paid at least one hundred escudos of taxes annually. Women needed a secondary education to vote, and the minimum annual tax for them was determined at two hundred escudos.

By the way, in Bulgaria women received the right to vote in 1937, in Romania - in 1939, in Italy, Yugoslavia, Japan - in 1945, in Belgium - in 1948, in Greece - in 1952, in the Swiss canton of Vaud - in 1959. And in the Swiss In the canton of Appenzell-Innerrhoden, women's suffrage was recognized at all in 1991 - after the decision of the Federal Supreme Court of this country.

Let's go back to pre-war Portugal, where the secret police PIDE monitored the mood in society. A pro-government paramilitary public organization, the Portuguese Legion, was also created.

An important role in the government of Salazar was played by employees of the University of Coimbra, who sometimes occupied up to half of the ministerial seats. Professor Marcelo Caetano, for example, became the head of Salazar's office (the position was loudly called "Minister President"). He would later be appointed as the successor to the stroke-stricken Salazar.

A graduate of the University of Coimbra, Manuel Serejeira became the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon and, in fact, the head of the entire Portuguese Church. By the way, it was Serezheyra who began to propagate and promote the "muddy" history the apparition of the Virgin to three girls from the village of Fatima (now they would at best be sent to share their fantasies at an appointment with a school psychologist).

Salazar himself from that time became the de facto dictator of Portugal, leaving the president dotted and only representative and ceremonial functions. Moreover, Salazar himself, unlike other dictators, did not like to make speeches and generally without the need to appear in public. The former general resigned himself to this state of affairs, although he complained to his friends that he felt like he was put in a "golden cage". Carmona faithfully fulfilled the duties of decorative president until his death in 1951. He was replaced by another "pocket president" - Meshkitu Guimarães. The third and last president of the New State was America Tomas, who served from 1958 to 1974.


António de Salazar and President America Tomas

As prime minister, Salazar continued his economic reforms and managed to achieve, in particular, the self-sufficiency of Portugal in wheat. Moreover, grain began to be even exported. However, not everyone liked Salazar's policy, and on July 4, 1937, anarcho-nationalists attempted to assassinate him (the bomb exploded three meters from Salazar, but the prime minister was not injured). In the same year, the Minister of Defense attempted a coup d'état.

The razor's edge


In the Spanish Civil War that began in 1936, Salazar supported the anti-republican forces led by Franco. The Viriatos volunteer legion was sent to the territory of the neighboring country, Portuguese ports were opened for German and Italian ships with military supplies for the rebels. Hitler even gave Portugal some of the latest Junkers. He seriously counted on the participation of Spain and Portugal in the outbreak of World War II. However, both countries refused to declare war on the Soviet Union and its allies. At the same time, Franco nevertheless sent the volunteer "Blue Division" (Divisionón Española de Voluntarios) to the Soviet-German front.

But Salazar this time refused to help even volunteers. Having declared neutrality, Portugal, like Switzerland and Sweden, began to make money on someone else's war. The main and most valuable resource of this country turned out to be deposits of tungsten ores. This metal was necessary for the production of gun steel and tank armor. It was also mined in Sweden, but there its production was only 10% of that of Portugal. Salazar sold tungsten to both parties, and the price of this metal, thanks to competition, increased almost 6 times over the year: if at the beginning of 1941 they paid 1 escudos per ton of tungsten, then at the end - 250 thousand. And then the price reached 6 thousand per ton. At the same time, Salazar refused to accept German marks as payment, demanding gold or, as a last resort, weapon or coal.

Against the backdrop of other European countries, Portugal prospered. Its youth did not die in the trenches, air raid sirens did not sound in the streets, people did not know what ration cards were. Salazar did not prevent the transformation of Portugal into a huge international "black market", where the warring states could buy anything, leaving a considerable percentage of these transactions here. Nor did he object to the fact that the country became an arena for the struggle between the intelligence agencies of the belligerents, especially since their agents were literally overspending. Employees of the Abwehr and the British Secret Intelligence Service clashed here especially. As a result, during the war years, Portugal's gold and foreign exchange reserves increased from $63,3 million in 1938 to $438 million in 1946.

In 1944, after the Allied landings in Normandy, Salazar stopped selling tungsten to Germany, which caused difficulties in the Third Reich in the production of tanks and artillery pieces. In addition, Salazar refused to participate in the evacuation of high-ranking Nazis to South America, on which Spain and the Vatican made good money. Only in 1949 did Portugal, previously neutral, join NATO, having negotiated significant economic preferences.

Postwar years


After the end of the Second World War, the economic situation of Portugal against the background of other European countries was very good, and Salazar then even issued loans to Great Britain. However, by this time a new generation of well-fed young people had appeared in the country, and their parents hardly remembered the poverty of the 1920s. The Portuguese wanted to live even better, and were dissatisfied with the rate of growth of their wealth. In addition, society has accumulated fatigue from the same persons in the country's leadership.

The citizens of Portugal wanted change, but Salazar, who believed in his indispensability, did not want to leave. Political repressions were deployed in the country. Portugal fell into a vicious circle of confrontation between the authorities and citizens: speeches against the government were suppressed, causing only regular rounds of general discontent and more and more retaliatory repressions. The president was now elected by a college of electors controlled by Salazar. Nevertheless, there were no mass arrests, let alone murders, of opponents of the regime in Portugal. Even in the Tarrafal prison, which is always remembered when talking about the reign of Salazar, calling it a “slow death camp”, only 37 prisoners died in 32 years (this prison was located on the island of Santiago in the Cape Verde archipelago - it was in this now independent state that almost went as ambassador N. Poklonskaya).

In 1959, an attempted military coup took place in Portugal. Salazar and his ministers had to take refuge in the barracks of the National Republican Guard. Later it turned out that this unit was also commanded by conspirators who, for some reason, did not dare to arrest the defenseless rulers of the country.

An additional headache was added by unrest in the colonies, which now began to be called "overseas provinces." But at first, even Salazar's opponents did not want to abandon the legacy of the great era. India's annexation of Goa in 1961 ("Operation Vijay") was perceived very painfully.

Portugal could not fight with India, but tried to keep the African colonies. After the Second World War, it turned out that Angola was rich in minerals, and production began to bring more benefits than the diamond trade. They also found oil, which did not please Salazar at all. It is said that when he heard about the discovery of oil fields there, the usually restrained Salazar exclaimed: "Only this was not enough for us"!

He understood that Angola would now attract the attention of the superpowers, and it would no longer be possible to keep it. So it all happened in the end.

The "overseas provinces" tried to hold on not only with a whip, but also with a carrot. A lot of money was invested in Angola - to the detriment of the development of Portugal itself. Highways were laid in the impenetrable jungle, malaria swamps were drained, power plants were built in the jungle. However, the national liberation movement, carefully fed from abroad, only grew stronger. The rebel detachments were divided into allegedly socialist (MPLA party) and openly nationalist, which consisted mainly of representatives of the Bakongo people (UPA party, then UNITA).

In addition to the war against the Portuguese, the Angolan rebels also grappled with each other. The MPLA was assisted by the USSR and Cuba. The UPA parties in the south and southeast of Angola were helped from South Africa. At first, the war for Angola was quite popular in Portugal, and it continued after the death of Salazar. However, spending grew (reaching 40% of the budget), almost a quarter of the adult male population participated in the hostilities.


Portuguese casadores (light infantrymen) in Angola

Fatigue grew in society, and in the end Portugal recognized the independence of Angola. Having got rid of the Portuguese who built roads and power plants, UNITA and the MPLA began (or rather, continued) a bloody civil war in Angola, which lasted from 1975 to 2002. The first found support in China, then in the USA, South Africa and Zaire, the second traditionally supported the USSR and Cuba. The Cubans sent a total of 25 thousand soldiers there. The Soviet Union could afford to fight with geopolitical opponents by proxy in Africa as well.


MPLA soldiers


UNITA soldiers with a white instructor, 1976


Soviet tank T-54A with a Cuban crew

Mozambique was also lost. The last Portuguese colony, Macau, which belonged to this country for 442 years, was transferred to China on the night of December 20, 1999. Now Macau is officially called Macau.

But we've gone too far ahead.

The sad end of the life of António de Salazar


In September 1968, Salazar became disabled after suffering a hemorrhagic stroke. Usually they write that the stroke was caused by a fall either from a chair or from a deck chair. It seems that just the fall itself was caused by this disease. For a whole month, Salazar was still listed as prime minister - until it became clear that he would not return to full-fledged work. Salazar's successor was the former head of his office, and at that time the rector of the University of Lisbon, Professor Marcelo Caetano. Salazar spoke of him:

"I respect him because Cayetano loves power not for personal gain or the support of his family, he is an honest man."


Marcelo Cayetano

Until his death on July 27, 1970, Salazar lived without knowing that he was no longer the head of state: they sent him "memos" and reports, imitated working meetings, brought a newspaper published in a single copy.

By the way, the fate of Salazar shows what Stalin could have expected if he had survived a stroke in March 1953.

No mausoleum or pompous memorial was built for Salazar: he was buried at home - in the village cemetery in Vimieira next to his parents.

Salazar's successor, Marcelo Caetano, ruled for 4 years and was removed as a result of the military coup of the "Movement of Captains", which was successful on the second attempt. The signal for the performance was the broadcast of the song "Grandula, Vila Morena" on Lisbon radio. In the capital, the troops were greeted with carnations and the famous Chilean song "El pueblo unido jamás será vencido".

Then the general secretary of the Communist Party Kunyal entered the Provisional Government, however, as a minister without a portfolio.


Alvaro Cunhal, 1980

Diplomatic relations were established with the USSR. In 1986 Portugal joined the European Union.

After the “carnation revolution”, Salazar tried to create a reputation as a “cruel dictator” and “fascist”, however, unlike the same Franco, over the years his popularity in Portugal has only increased. According to the results of the national vote "Great Portuguese" held in 2007, Salazar unexpectedly took first place, and by a huge margin from other contenders. With 41% of the vote, he beat Vasco da Gama (only 0,7%), Luis de Camões (4th-century poet, 2,7%) and Enrique (Henry) the Navigator (XNUMX%).

By the way, the second place in this voting was taken by the general secretary of the Portuguese Communist Party, Alvaro Cunhal, who was repressed by Salazar, with 19,1% of the vote. And in third place was Aristidis de Mendez, the Consul General of Portugal in Bordeaux, who, contrary to the instructions of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, issued many visas to German Jews during the Second World War (there are suspicions that he did not disinterestedly and not for free). The "cruel dictator" Salazar, for this arbitrariness, fraught with serious diplomatic complications, dismissed Mendes with the payment of his full salary, which this "unfortunate sufferer" received until his death in 1954.

The Portuguese authorities continued to be embarrassed by Salazar and only on the occasion of his 120th birthday in 2009 did they clean up his modest grave.


On the stove you can now read:

“Here lies the man to whom Portugal owes the most. He gave all of himself to the Country, taking nothing for himself from the Country.”
Author:
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  1. Luminman
    Luminman 2 August 2022 05: 35
    +2
    During the war, Salazar tried to sit on two chairs, showing fantastic resourcefulness - he traded the most valuable tungsten both with Germany and with the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition. Plus conducted political bargaining with the belligerent powers behind the Cape Verde Islands strategically conveniently advanced into the Atlantic.

    However, this did not bring prosperity to Portugal, the country got out of a deep ass, probably somewhere in the 80s, and even then, thanks to EU subsidies ...
    1. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 2 August 2022 06: 38
      +25
      Quote: Luminman
      During the war, Salazar tried to sit on two chairs, showing fantastic resourcefulness - he traded the most valuable tungsten both with Germany and with the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition.

      So this is the quality of a true leader.
      The leader is not the one who bends everyone, the leader is the one who can agree with everyone.
      1. Luminman
        Luminman 2 August 2022 07: 20
        +6
        So this is the quality of a true leader.

        Exactly!
      2. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 08: 36
        +1
        Quote: Alexey Sommer
        The leader is not the one who bends everyone, the leader is the one who can agree with everyone.
        This man banned all political parties in the country...original ability to negotiate.
        1. VLR
          2 August 2022 08: 43
          +24
          Considering the post-revolutionary mess in the country, which had been going on since 1910, there was no other way out. Yes, and in modern Russia a lot of sense from the parties? Though "Duma", though "extra-systemic"? Some receive money from the budget and vote "as they should" - at least the EP, at least the Liberal Democratic Party. Others - from "foreign sponsors", and act strictly according to the instructions sent. Neither one nor the other exists for membership fees, therefore, they are not viable.
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 08: 51
            +6
            Quote: VlR
            Considering the post-revolutionary mess in the country, which had been going on since 1910, there was no other way out.
            So this is fascism, sorry. Now there are political parties in Portugal or Spain and somehow these countries have not collapsed.
            Quote: VlR
            Yes, and in modern Russia a lot of sense from the parties? Though "Duma", though "extra-systemic"?
            Yes, these are not parties, but rather EP clones.
            1. VLR
              2 August 2022 09: 09
              +10
              So this is fascism, sorry. Now there are political parties in Portugal or Spain and somehow these countries have not collapsed.

              So time must be taken into account. One time - the era between the world wars, the other - today's "vegetarian" time.
              1. Stirbjorn
                Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 09: 16
                +2
                Quote: VlR
                So time must be taken into account. One time - the era between the world wars, the other - today's "vegetarian" time.

                Salazar ruled for another 25 years after WWII. Change is long overdue by now.
                1. VLR
                  2 August 2022 09: 42
                  +13
                  And this is about the need for any politician to leave in time. However, there are no guarantees that it would not have become worse in Portugal without Salazar. The Democrats then did not demonstrate any economic miracles. Only in 1986 did some improvements come after subsidies from the EU were begged - at the cost of limiting national sovereignty.
                  1. volodimer
                    volodimer 11 August 2022 19: 44
                    0
                    Thanks for the article! I read it with interest.
                    And about what he did, how he did or what he could do and what Salazar did not do, this is a huge field for discussion. It seems very easy to give assessments with afterknowledge, but at the same time it is incredibly difficult. How to understand what a particular person was thinking.
                    Recently there was an article about Allende and Pinochet, Here's how to judge who would bring more benefit to Chile.
                    Ehhhh I would like to read the comments written in VO years later, to current events, in the "History" section.
          2. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 18: 56
            -2
            Quote: VlR
            Some receive money from the budget and vote "as it should" - at least EP,

            Oddly enough, EP receives much less from the budget than other parliamentary parties
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. alexey sidykin
          alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 18: 53
          -2
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          This man banned all political parties in the country

          And what good is a multi-party system?
        4. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 5 August 2022 13: 37
          0
          So what? For example, a united Russia occupies 80% of the seats in the Duma. Do you think it negotiates with someone? But in the USSR there was one party in general. Salazar correctly said that there was no sense in them
      3. bandabas
        bandabas 2 August 2022 16: 37
        +4
        Kicking a dead lion is a favorite pastime of "homo sapiens".
    2. VLR
      2 August 2022 07: 00
      +19
      Salazar did what could be done under those conditions. Already for the fact that he did not send his youth to die for the 3rd Reich, you can erect monuments. For the fact that he managed to cash in on trade with Nazi Germany - thanks, for enriching himself at the expense of Britain - applause: few people managed and manage not to ruin the country by entering into trade relations with the British (and Americans), they only allow compradors to enrich themselves who help them plunder their countries. But at any moment they can be "thrown" like Russian oligarchs. Salazar made a mistake, wasting the resources of the country, trying to keep unnecessary Angola and Mozambique - but this was demanded of him then by the whole society - he was not ready to give up the imperial heritage.
      1. Luminman
        Luminman 2 August 2022 07: 15
        +2
        Quote: VlR
        Already for not sending his youth to die for the 3rd Reich

        He could send young people to die for Britain too, if he kept the letter of the Windsor Treaty of Perpetual Alliance. The British put a lot of pressure on him...
        1. VLR
          2 August 2022 07: 23
          +15
          From the point of view of Portugal and the Portuguese, he did the right thing. Let others fight, and we will "cut the coupons." The difference between an intelligent person and the Romanian Antonescu, or the Hungarian Horthy.
          1. Alexander Salenko
            Alexander Salenko 2 August 2022 08: 27
            +10
            Did Antonescu and Horthy have a special choice? I don't see how Romania or Hungary, by virtue of geography, could remain neutral.
            Thanks for the article, somehow I was not very interested in Salazar.
            1. Luminman
              Luminman 2 August 2022 09: 13
              +6
              I can't imagine how Romania or Hungary, by virtue of geography, could remain neutral

              Sweden, Switzerland or Ireland. There, too, the geography was not bad ... Yes, and Spain too
          2. House 25 Sq. 380
            House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 09: 44
            -3
            From the point of view of Portugal and the Portuguese, he did the right thing. Let others fight, and we will "cut the coupons." The difference between an intelligent person and the Romanian Antonescu, or the Hungarian Horthy.

            Did the hero of the article have any principles?
            This reminded me of a little-known work by Saltykov-Shchedrin, where Chichikov (this is not a mistake, there were many Chichikovs, such a writer’s technique), working as an executioner, begins to cook immediately after the execution, and the shocked interlocutor says to him:
            - how can you? Your hands are covered in blood!
            - I washed it, sir, answers Chichikov ....
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 2 August 2022 19: 15
              +5
              Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
              Did the hero of the article have any principles?

              He did his duty to his country.
              1. House 25 Sq. 380
                House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 19: 20
                -4
                He did his duty to his country.

                Horthy, Mussolini and Hitler also did their duty...
                At the same time, the latter led a healthy lifestyle, loved sports, did not smoke, was a vegetarian and drew well.
                And he loved children...
                But not all....
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 2 August 2022 19: 37
                  +5
                  Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                  Horthy with Mussolini and Hitler also did their duty.
                  When did they get into a war with a country with which, in principle, they had nothing to share? Original.
                  1. House 25 Sq. 380
                    House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 19: 44
                    -2
                    When did they get into a war with a country with which, in principle, they had nothing to share? Original.

                    Was it with Poland that Germany had "nothing to share"?
                    Original ...
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 2 August 2022 20: 08
                      +2
                      Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                      Was it with Poland that Germany had "nothing to share"?

                      From the USSR.
                      1. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 20: 09
                        -3
                        From the USSR

                        Is the antagonism of Nazism and Communism just Soviet propaganda?
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 2 August 2022 20: 54
                        +4
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Is the antagonism of Nazism and Communism
                        Politics should be guided not by beautiful words, but by practical factors. Salazar did just that, unlike Hitler.
                      3. VLR
                        2 August 2022 21: 22
                        +6
                        And even better and more efficient is to say "beautiful words" that everyone will like, and do only that and exactly what is beneficial to your state. These are the best politicians.
                      4. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 2 August 2022 22: 31
                        +1
                        Quote: VlR
                        say "beautiful words" that everyone will like, but do only that and exactly what is beneficial to your state

                        That's right, Machiavelli wrote about it.
                      5. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 21: 45
                        -4
                        Politics should be guided not by beautiful words, but by practical factors. Salazar did just that, unlike Hitler.

                        From the point of view of the interests of the German state and the German people, Hitler did everything right: he attacked when the chances of defeating the USSR were the highest ....
                        What was Hitler to do? Wait until the USSR completes the rearmament of the army and the transfer of the economy to "military rails" by 1943?
                      6. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 2 August 2022 22: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        attacked when the chances of defeating the USSR were the highest ....

                        Moreover, a significant part of his army was pinned down in the west. That is, he dragged Germany into a war on two fronts.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        What was Hitler to do?

                        Dodavit England and build your Reich in Europe.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Wait until the USSR completes the rearmament of the army and the transfer of the economy to "military rails" by 1943?
                        And then what? USSR will attack? There was nothing for him to do.
                      7. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 22: 45
                        -6
                        Moreover, a significant part of his army was pinned down in the west. That is, he dragged Germany into a war on two fronts.

                        Do you think Hitler and the German General Staff were dumber than you in military affairs?
                        hi
                        To crush England and build your own Reich in Europe

                        It was impossible to crush England without resources: England is 2/5 of the resources of the planet at that time ...
                        Hitler did not want war with England at all and offered her peace many times, but they refused...
                        And then what? USSR will attack? There was nothing for him to do.

                        Of course it will attack...
                        The USSR was ready to enter into an alliance with England in 39, but they themselves did not want to ....
                      8. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 3 August 2022 19: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Hitler and the German General Staff were dumber than you in military affairs
                        Apparently yes.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        England is 2/5 of the resources of the planet at that time ...
                        But this does not mean that all these resources immediately ended up on the island of England itself.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Hitler did not want war with England at all and offered her peace many times, but they refused.
                        I know.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Of course it will attack...
                        The USSR was ready to enter into an alliance with England in 39, but they themselves did not want to ....
                        Well, why did he have to attack after all the controversial issues were resolved in the same 1939?
                      9. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 19: 35
                        +1
                        Apparently yes.

                        I envy you .... But without anger!
                        smile

                        But this does not mean that all these resources immediately ended up on the island of England itself.

                        For two years they quietly entered Britain and there was no reason to stop their receipt ...
                        I know

                        If you are in the know, then your advice, sorry, [censored]
                        hi
                        Well, why did he have to attack after all the controversial issues were resolved in the same 1939?

                        And what kind of "disputed issues" did our countries have, sorry, among themselves, which, firstly, were, and, secondly, were in the year 39, according to you, "allowed" ??
                      10. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 3 August 2022 19: 47
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        For two years they quietly entered Britain
                        What's all at once? And that's why England asked the US for destroyers?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        and, secondly, were they "allowed" in your words in 39?

                        Stalin sought to return the Baltic territories, as well as parts of Ukraine and Belarus captured by Poland. There were no plans for a "crusade in Europe".
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        And what kind of "disputed issues" did our countries have, sorry, among themselves, which, firstly, were

                        That is, you yourself say that there was nothing to share with the Germans.
                      11. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 20: 34
                        -1
                        What's all at once? And that's why England asked the US for destroyers?

                        Everything is useful in the household, even junk ...

                        Nevertheless, the fact is obvious: the resources came to Britain, they came uninterruptedly and the Germans could not do anything about it ...
                        Stalin sought to return the Baltic territories, as well as parts of Ukraine and Belarus captured by Poland. There were no plans for a "crusade in Europe".

                        And who is arguing with this? "Crusades" some ....
                        I also wanted Finland, but it didn’t work out ...

                        However, if my memory serves me right, in the 45-50s the USSR did not withdraw its troops from everywhere, but from where it did withdraw - it established friendly governments ...
                        Is not it?
                        That is, you yourself say that there was nothing to share with the Germans.

                        You argue yourself, not me: you mentioned some contentious issues, even allowed at 39...

                        Please continue....
                      12. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 3 August 2022 21: 01
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Nevertheless, the fact is there: resources flowed into Britain, flowed uninterruptedly and

                        Apart from the fact that the Germans quietly drowned.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Everything is useful in the household, even junk
                        That is, the forces were not enough.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        I also wanted Finland, but it didn’t work out ...
                        I would like to join. The goal was to push the border and it was pushed back.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        However, if my memory serves me right, in the 45-50s of the USSR
                        I used what I got. But it does not follow from this that Stalin was going to attack first.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        You argue for yourself, not me
                        Do you remember what you wrote?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        You mentioned some controversial issues, even resolved in 39

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Stalin sought to return the Baltic territories, as well as parts of Ukraine and Belarus captured by Poland.
                      13. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 22: 49
                        -2
                        Apart from the fact that the Germans quietly drowned.

                        Yes, apart from...
                        And the fact that "counting" was much, much more than "not counting" ...
                        That is, there was not enough strength

                        Enough, enough ... But overdoing, as you know, is better than ...
                        Someone bought destroyers, someone - oil and wheat ...
                        What surprises you?
                        I would like to join. The goal was to push the border and it was pushed back.

                        The goal was - all of Finland, for which they "prepared" the government of Kuusinen - naturally with a "people's mandate" ...

                        Or are you not aware that the Finnish Democratic Republic headed by him was recognized by the USSR and signed with him on 02.12.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX the Treaty of Mutual Assistance and Friendship?

                        The embarrassment was such that the regions annexed to the USSR had to be included in the Karelian ASSR and "raise" its status to the allied Karelian-Finnish SSR ...
                        I used what I got. But it does not follow from this that Stalin was going to attack first.

                        And why "received" if it is not necessary?
                        It didn’t fall from the “sky”, it didn’t walk down the street and found a boot: it was a demand of the USSR from Tehran 1943 (pro-Soviet Poland) and Yalta 1945 (pro-Soviet Eastern Europe) ...

                        In general, "to attack first" is some kind of emotional category ....
                        For example, Germany did not attack either France or Britain, but it is believed that Germany is the aggressor against them.
                        Has this ever surprised you?
                        Do you remember what you wrote?

                        I remember very well: with Germany there are no controversial issues here...
                        hi
                      14. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 4 August 2022 20: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        And the fact that "counting" was much, much more than "not counting" ...
                        Because the Germans, instead of concentrating on finishing off England, moved east.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Enough, enough ... But overdoing, as you know, is better than ...
                        There is a fact that they begged for them, will there be a source for the rest?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        The goal was - all of Finland, for which they "prepared" the government of Kuusinen - naturally with a "people's mandate" ...
                        Usual propaganda. The USSR won the war and would like to capture all of Finland could do it.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        And why "received" if it is not necessary?
                        Then, that after having reached Berlin it would be foolish to just leave. Another thing is that if Hitler had not trampled on the USSR, no one would have fought with him.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        In general, "to attack first" is some kind of emotional category ....
                        For example, Germany did not attack either France or Britain, but it is believed that Germany is the aggressor against them.
                        That is, the fact that Stalin did not plan any attack is well known to you. The rest is Rezun's chatter.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        I remember very well: there are no disputed issues with Germany here ...

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Stalin sought to return the Baltic territories, as well as parts of Ukraine and Belarus captured by Poland.
                      15. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 5 August 2022 09: 35
                        -1
                        Because the Germans, instead of concentrating on finishing off England, moved east.

                        Headed east to get resources to finish off England...
                        Experience has shown that the available forces of the German aviation and fleet are not enough to suppress the British defenses and successfully land ....
                        There is a fact that they begged for them, will there be a source for the rest?

                        Of course, the fact is that they received destroyers in exchange for bases .... Why are you twitching?
                        When you feel the need for something, you buy it (change) ...
                        Someone needs destroyers, and someone needs oil and wheat ....
                        The fact is that all the resources Britain needed went to the mother country uninterruptedly and enough to continue the war...
                        Usual propaganda. The USSR won the war and would like to capture all of Finland could do it.

                        Of course, I appreciate your opinion that the recognition of a new state and its government headed by its own citizen is just "ordinary propaganda" ...
                        But, nevertheless, for me it is not authoritative ....
                        hi
                        I could have captured...
                        Then, that after we reached Berlin it would be stupid to just leave

                        Why? We didn't need this Eastern Europe, right?
                        You yourself repeated many times above that we had no interests there ...
                        Or either....
                        Another thing is that if Hitler had not trampled on the USSR, no one would have fought with him.

                        Where does this conclusion come from?
                        That is, if the USSR had concluded an alliance with the West in 39 and Germany attacked Poland, the USSR would not have participated in the war ??
                        And if this union took place in 1940 and Hitler attacked France, the USSR would again not fulfill its allied obligations?
                        Are you sure??
                        In general, you write as if attacking Hitler is something very, very bad ....
                        That is, the fact that Stalin did not plan any attack is well known to you. The rest is Rezun's chatter.

                        You are already the second one to pester me with some kind of rezun ...
                        Stalin sought to return the Baltic territories, as well as parts of Ukraine and Belarus captured by Poland.

                        There are controversial issues with Germany no, therefore allow there is nothing with her (as you wrote above) ...
                        hi
                      16. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 5 August 2022 17: 10
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Headed east to get resources to finish off England...
                        Experience has shown that the available forces of the German aviation and fleet
                        We omit the fact that most of the aviation was not used against England precisely in order to save it for sending to the east? As well as the fact that if the Germans had concentrated all their forces on them instead of creating tank fists, the British would have had even more "fun".
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Of course, the fact is that they received destroyers in exchange for bases
                        That is, their fleet was so lacking that they had to pay not even with money, but with territories? You said it yourself.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Why? We didn't need this Eastern Europe, right?
                        I said that no one was going to start a war for her, but since I had to fight, it was stupid to refuse.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        That is, conclude the USSR in 39 an alliance with the West
                        Did the West agree to this alliance? Will there be a source?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        You are already the second one to pester me with some kind of rezun ...
                        Then there is no need to repeat his opuses.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        There are no controversial issues with Germany, therefore, there is nothing to resolve them with her (as you wrote above).
                        And with whom were they allowed?
                      17. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 5 August 2022 18: 52
                        0
                        We omit the fact that most of the aviation was not used against England precisely in order to save it for sending to the east?

                        I just don't understand what you mean...
                        As well as the fact that if the Germans had concentrated all their forces on them instead of creating tank fists, the British would have had even more "fun".

                        You always demand some "facts", "sources", "references": for example, now you are ready to refer to something, or not?
                        That is, their fleet was so lacking that they had to pay not even with money, but with territories? You said it yourself.

                        You touch me: did the British get the fleet or not?
                        Do you care what they paid for it?
                        The question was: is there a fleet or not?
                        Did the British have it?
                        Was ...
                        Did you fulfill your task of providing the metropolis with raw materials?
                        Performed ....
                        Does this fact infuriate you personally, or what ??

                        If, in order to fulfill its task, the fleet needed to hand over the heir to the British throne, and they would let her in - and it helped - what difference does it make to you ??
                        What do you care?
                        I said that no one was going to start a war for her, but since I had to fight, it was stupid to refuse.

                        From what "refuse"?
                        They refused the north of Norway - they refused ...
                        And the Danish island of Bornholm was abandoned ...
                        And then they abandoned the base in Finland ...
                        And Hungary "for some reason" was not abandoned ....
                        And they didn’t want to “renounce” Yugoslavia, but there Tito “refused” ...
                        Yes, he “refused” so much that it was difficult to drive the ball into football ....
                        "Unnecessary" right?
                        Did the West agree to this alliance? Will there be a source?

                        What "source"?
                        The negotiations were interrupted by the USSR; maybe I should have picked it up and continued...
                        On June 23, 1941, the West agreed, right? ...
                        Maybe on June 21, 1941, he would also agree ....
                        Or May 25, 1941, how should I know?
                        Then there is no need to repeat his opuses.

                        I do not know what you mean...
                        I have a strong suspicion that You didn't read my original post carefully., and therefore I have to endure this paranoia in my address for many days ...

                        I see only one thing: no one is talking to me, they are arguing with some kind of rezun ...
                        If you are so interested in him, find his address and argue with him even to the point of carrot talk ....
                        And with whom were they allowed?

                        I don't know what you meant when you wrote:
                        Well, why did he have to attack after all the controversial issues were resolved in the same 1939?

                        With Germany, the USSR had only one "disputable issue" - the fate of Ernest Thalmann ...
                        I don’t remember other Soviet-German controversial issues ....
                      18. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 5 August 2022 19: 37
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        I just don't understand what you mean...

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We omit the fact that most of the aviation was not used against England precisely in order to save it for sending to the east? As well as the fact that if the Germans had concentrated all their forces on them instead of creating tank fists, the British would have had even more "fun".

                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Are you ready to refer to something, or not?
                        That is, you deny the fact that in order to invade the USSR, the Germans had to create powerful armored groups from tanks, the resources spent on which could be used differently?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        From what "refuse"?
                        From what they could keep in the post-war bargaining.

                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        What "source"?
                        The negotiations were interrupted by the USSR; maybe I should have picked it up and continued...
                        That is, you don’t know the facts like the Munich Agreement and the Strange War?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        I do not know what you mean...
                        About the defector, who wrote a bunch of opuses on this topic, only the deaf did not hear.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        With Germany, the USSR had only one "disputable issue" - the fate of Ernest Thalmann ...
                        Did Molotov and Ribbentrop discuss this? Truth?
                      19. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 5 August 2022 20: 48
                        0
                        That is, you deny the fact that in order to invade the USSR, the Germans had to create powerful armored groups from tanks, the resources spent on which could be used differently?

                        I don't understand you at all, to be honest.
                        Are you implying that Hitler defeated France without tanks ??))
                        From what they could keep in the post-war bargaining.

                        Do you often bargain for things you DON'T NEED??
                        That is, you don’t know the facts like the Munich Agreement and the Strange War?

                        I know very well: now you should explain what it means when one of the above events took place BEFORE the start of negotiations, and the second - AFTER they were terminated ....
                        About the defector, who wrote a bunch of opuses on this topic, only the deaf did not hear.

                        I don't care: if he is so important to you, flood him with emails, what have I got to do with it??
                        Did Molotov and Ribbentrop discuss this? Truth?

                        This was discussed BEFORE them ...

                        What controversial Soviet-German issues were resolved by Molotov and Ribbentrop - I do not know: you can finally list them, if you like ....
                        hi
                      20. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 5 August 2022 21: 23
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        I don't understand you at all, to be honest.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, you deny the fact that in order to invade the USSR, the Germans had to create powerful armored groups from tanks, the resources spent on which could be used differently?
                        France was defeated by much smaller forces.

                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Do you often bargain for things you DON'T NEED??

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I said that no one was going to start a war for her, but since I had to fight, it was stupid to refuse.

                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Now you should explain why it is when one of the above events took place BEFORE the start of negotiations, and the second - AFTER they were terminated ....
                        That is, all this time no one was going to enter into an alliance with the USSR.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        What controversial Soviet-German issues were resolved by Molotov and Ribbentrop - I do not know: you can finally list them, if you like ....

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Stalin sought to return the Baltic territories, as well as parts of Ukraine and Belarus captured by Poland.

                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        And I

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Then there is no need to repeat his opuses.
                      21. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 8 August 2022 22: 47
                        -1
                        France was defeated by much smaller forces.

                        France was defeated with the forces that were needed ....
                        And - not even all cash ...
                        Anyway, "much" is too strong a word...
                        That is, all this time no one was going to enter into an alliance with the USSR

                        It's a matter of terms...
                      22. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 8 August 2022 23: 01
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        France was defeated with the forces that were needed ...
                        That is, there were as many of them as attacked the USSR?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        It's a matter of terms...
                        That is, in fact, was not going to.
                      23. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 8 August 2022 23: 16
                        -1
                        That is, there were as many of them as attacked the USSR?

                        Not....
                        That is, in fact, was not going to.

                        In fact: there was a review and assessment of opportunities ...
                      24. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 9 August 2022 18: 44
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Not....
                        That's it. Use Hitler all the resources against England and shreds would fly from her.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        In fact: there was a review and assessment of opportunities ...
                        I mean, I didn't intend to.
                      25. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 9 August 2022 18: 58
                        0
                        That's it. Use Hitler all the resources against England and shreds would fly from her.

                        Nothing of the kind: German aviation lost its battle, the German fleet lost, and the victorious German armored vehicles and infantry could not walk on dry land like water ...
                        request
                        I mean, I didn't intend to.

                        Did you read my original post carefully?
                        hi
                      26. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 9 August 2022 21: 25
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Nothing of the kind: German aviation lost its battle, the German fleet lost

                        Because all forces were thrown to the east. If planes were riveted instead of tanks, then there would be no England.
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Did you read my original post carefully?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, all this time no one was going to enter into an alliance with the USSR.
                      27. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 10 August 2022 00: 08
                        0
                        Because all forces were thrown to the east. If planes were riveted instead of tanks, then there would be no England.

                        Listen, let's not fantasize...

                        The Hans threw over 2,5 thousand aircraft on the territorially small Britain and in less than 4 months of 1940 lost 1,9 thousand of them ...
                        Which "east"?

                        Of course, it was possible to rivet more aircraft further, but, firstly, the British did not lag behind and it was much easier for them to defend themselves than for the Germans to attack, and, secondly, it is much more difficult to "rivet" pilots ...
                        hi
                        Did you read my original post carefully?

                        Quite recent, about 43 and the rearmament of the USSR? ...
                      28. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 August 2022 21: 14
                        0
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        and in less than 4 months of 1940 lost 1,9 thousand of them
                        And the British did not lose a single one?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        Quite recent, about 43 and the rearmament of the USSR? ...
                        And whose is it?
                        Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                        With Germany, the USSR had only one "disputable issue" - the fate of Ernest Thalmann ...
                        I don’t remember other Soviet-German controversial issues ....
                        So why was Hitler afraid of the rearmament of the USSR?
                      29. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 4 August 2022 21: 04
                        0
                        A significant part of the territories included in the Karelian-Finnish SSR following the results of the Soviet-Finnish war was transferred to the Leningrad region in 1944. But the CF SSR itself remained in existence.
                      30. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 5 August 2022 10: 11
                        +1
                        A significant part of the territories included in the Karelian-Finnish SSR following the results of the Soviet-Finnish war was transferred to the Leningrad region in 1944. But the CF SSR itself remained in existence.

                        Right...
                        Moreover, they acted very carefully: first, in September 44, they concluded a truce with Finland, and then in November of the same year they transferred the areas on the Karelian Isthmus to the RSFSR, which automatically made Finland's possible post-war claims to these lands impossible ...
                        Moreover, Khrushchev removed the name "Finnish" and transformed the republic into an ASSR only after receiving guarantees about the Finns of their neutrality ...
                        Such a decision of the Soviet government thus removed possible Soviet claims to the entire territory of Finland as a potential part of the Karelian-Finnish SSR (according to the USSR constitution of 1936, a union republic is an independent state that voluntarily entered the union and could voluntarily leave it) ...
                        Beautiful!
                        hi
                      31. VLR
                        2 August 2022 22: 42
                        +9
                        From the point of view of the interests of the state and the German people, Hitler needed to maintain the most friendly relations with the USSR, because the Soviet Union did not need anything in the West, and Stalin was not a ... cancer to fight for British or American interests. He restored the western borders of the Russian Empire, with the exception of absolutely unnecessary Poland, from which there were always only problems, and Finland, which even under the tsars did not actually belong to Russia, having its own government, not paying taxes and not supplying soldiers to the Russian army. Just now there were Russian naval bases on its territory - that's all. Stalin did not need anything in the West, these are all Rezunov's "icebreaking" anti-Soviet fantasies.
                      32. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 23: 10
                        -9
                        From the point of view of the interests of the state and the German people, Hitler needed to maintain the most friendly relations with the USSR, because the Soviet Union did not need anything in the West, and Stalin was not a ... cancer to fight for British or American interests. He restored the western borders of the Russian Empire, with the exception of absolutely unnecessary Poland, from which there were always only problems, and Finland, which even under the tsars did not actually belong to Russia, having its own government, not paying taxes and not supplying soldiers to the Russian army. Just now there were Russian naval bases on its territory - that's all. Stalin did not need anything in the West, these are all Rezunov's "icebreaking" anti-Soviet fantasies.

                        These are your fantasies - nothing more ...
                        If the USSR did not need anything in the West, why did the USSR try so hard to enter into an alliance with England and France in 39? Stalin was d ... cancer?
                        Why did you help Republican Spain before? Why did you guarantee Czechoslovakia's security?
                        What ran to England in June-July 41?
                        Why did the USSR demand that the West take into account its interests in Eastern Europe in Yalta???
                        Or, in your opinion, did the USSR have no "organic interests" to have a "security belt" to the west of its borders?

                        So the war with Germany was inevitable ....
                        Quoting Lenin, in 40 Hitler could not start - early, at 42-43 - he could not either - it would have been too late ...
                        Another thing is that Hitler hoped for peace with England, but this did not happen ....
                      33. VLR
                        3 August 2022 05: 46
                        +6
                        Because Hitler abruptly changed the policy of Germany, and proclaimed "drang nah Ostend". I had to consider and take action. In fact, Russia and Germany are natural allies, and this alliance is an Anglo-Saxon nightmare.
                      34. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 11: 10
                        -1
                        Because Hitler abruptly changed the policy of Germany, and proclaimed "drang nah Ostend". I had to consider and take action. In fact, Russia and Germany are natural allies, and this alliance is an Anglo-Saxon nightmare.

                        Which Hitler "drastically changed the policy of Germany"?
                        The one that led to the first world war with the Russian Empire?
                        Or the one currently run by the trio Scholz-Habeck-Beerbock?
                        You may not be aware, but the German policy "Drang nach Osten" has been carried out unchanged since the 10th century....
                        The "results" of this policy are the city of Derpt near the borders of the Pskov region and such a political nation as "Ukrainians" ...
                      35. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 3 August 2022 10: 37
                        +1
                        What does all of the above have to do with
                        Of course it will attack...

                        ?
                      36. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 11: 09
                        -1
                        What does all of the above have to do with

                        I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question...
                        hi
                      37. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 3 August 2022 11: 16
                        0
                        I'll try to rephrase.
                        You and Valery have opposite views on the hypothetical Soviet attack on Germany. As an argument for your opinion about precisely such plans of the Soviet leadership, you cited a number of examples (in the form of questions):
                        These are your fantasies - nothing more ...
                        If the USSR did not need anything in the West, why did the USSR try so hard to enter into an alliance with England and France in 39? Stalin was d ... cancer?
                        Why did you help Republican Spain before? Why did you guarantee Czechoslovakia's security?
                        What ran to England in June-July 41?
                        Why did the USSR demand that the West take into account its interests in Eastern Europe in Yalta???
                        Or, in your opinion, did the USSR have no "organic interests" to have a "security belt" to the west of its borders?

                        So the war with Germany was inevitable ....

                        And here already I don’t understand how everything in the quote has anything to do with plans for an attack on Germany.
                      38. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 11: 18
                        -2
                        Allow me a simple question: what was the purpose of the negotiations between the USSR and Britain and France in the spring and summer of 1939?
                      39. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 3 August 2022 11: 20
                        +2
                        Ensuring own security in view of the predicted German attack on the USSR
                      40. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 11: 22
                        -3
                        Ensuring own security in view of the predicted German attack on the USSR

                        What a strange idea....
                        And what, in 39, Germany could attack the USSR?
                        Did the countries have common borders?
                        hi
                      41. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 3 August 2022 11: 25
                        +1
                        And what, the example of Czechoslovakia is not indicative of the issue of inconstancy of borders between states?
                      42. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 11: 26
                        -2
                        Extremely significant!
                        But you didn't answer my direct question....
                        hi
                      43. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 3 August 2022 11: 34
                        +4
                        Didn't he answer? I think he answered. Perhaps you were confused by the answer with a question mark at the end? Well, I can rebuild the phrase without him.
                        Perhaps because one of my passions is chess in all its variations, I am of the opinion that "predicting" developments through analysis is an important quality for leaders. Therefore, it is better to wait for the appearance of a common border with the diplomatic foundation and allies built, than to do this when the rooster has already pecked.
                      44. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 11: 40
                        -1
                        No, they didn't answer...
                        You chose not to answer a simple and clear question ...
                        And thus, you drive me into a "guess" of other people's thoughts ...

                        That is, if I correctly followed your thought, the goal of Soviet diplomacy in 39 was to conclude an alliance with England and France to ensure their own security in view of the predicted German attack on the USSR, and, as a means, to ensure the inviolability of the borders of states located between Germany and the USSR ?
                        Well no?
                        Can you answer this question?
                      45. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 3 August 2022 11: 57
                        0
                        No, they didn't answer...
                        You chose not to answer a simple and clear question ...
                        And thus, you drive me into a "guess" of other people's thoughts ...

                        Is it? And from my side it is seen as unwillingness to see the answer.
                        Such a suspicion arose as soon as the quite understandable text "in view of projected attacks" received a question narrowing everything down to the framework of 1939.
                        Well no?

                        I won't answer yes/no because I don't like the interpretation of what I said.
                        The purpose of diplomacy is to ensure security in the face of predicted aggression, and everything else is already tools, and an alliance with England and France can be such a tool.
                      46. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 12: 07
                        -3
                        I do not like
                        Good luck!
                        hi
                      47. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 19: 08
                        0
                        And you don’t know that Poland would not only let the German troops through to attack the USSR, but would also join with great pleasure.
                      48. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 19: 12
                        0
                        And you don’t know that Poland would not only let the German troops through to attack the USSR, but would also join with great pleasure.

                        What does Poland have to do with it?
                        We are about an alliance with Britain and France ...
                        hi
                      49. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 20: 14
                        0
                        Yes, I'm talking about the borders of Germany and the USSR ...
                      50. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 20: 39
                        0
                        Yes, I'm talking about the borders of Germany and the USSR ..

                        Did Germany and the USSR have a common border in the summer of 39?
                      51. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 4 August 2022 10: 30
                        -2
                        Read more about Poland...
                      52. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 4 August 2022 10: 50
                        0
                        Already read and re-read over and over again.
                      53. ermak124.0
                        ermak124.0 7 August 2022 23: 42
                        +1
                        Yes, a person reads and sees only what fits into his personal channel of conversation (dispute).
                      54. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 8 August 2022 22: 45
                        -1
                        Yes, a person reads and sees only what fits into his personal channel of conversation (dispute).

                        Naturally: any dialogue has subject.
                        We have already moved quite far away from him - a correct understanding of national interests as an assessment of a leader ....
                        And it is advisable not to go even further!
                      55. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 19: 05
                        0
                        Stop repeating the delusional fantasies of the traitor Rezun ...
                      56. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 19: 13
                        0
                        Stop repeating the delusional fantasies of the traitor Rezun ...

                        What exactly am I repeating "fantasies"?

                        Quote, link to the page to the source - please ...
                      57. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 20: 16
                        0
                        Oh, come on ... otherwise I didn’t read the Icebreaker. The ears of this book stick out from all your comments.
                      58. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 3 August 2022 20: 40
                        +1
                        Oh, come on ... otherwise I didn’t read the Icebreaker. The ears of this book stick out from all your comments

                        I didn't read...
                        And what will you do now?
                      59. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 4 August 2022 10: 31
                        -2
                        Come on... don't hang noodles on your ears.
                      60. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 4 August 2022 10: 50
                        +1
                        Chocolate: offensive, huh?
                      61. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 4 August 2022 18: 16
                        -2
                        To you? Maybe not aware laughing
                      62. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 4 August 2022 20: 40
                        +1
                        What should I be offended by?
                2. Pilat2009
                  Pilat2009 5 August 2022 13: 42
                  0
                  Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                  He did his duty to his country.

                  Horthy, Mussolini and Hitler also did their duty...
                  At the same time, the latter led a healthy lifestyle, loved sports, did not smoke, was a vegetarian and drew well.
                  And he loved children...
                  But not all....

                  Well, you said. Just ask the Italians how they feel about Mussolini. And the Portuguese chose Salazar as the greatest man in the country
                  1. House 25 Sq. 380
                    House 25 Sq. 380 5 August 2022 14: 48
                    +1
                    Well, you said. Just ask the Italians how they feel about Mussolini. And the Portuguese chose Salazar as the greatest man in the country

                    You will be greatly surprised if half of the Italians, looking around, quietly say about Mussolini: "a real leader, father of the nation"?
                    I'll tell you more: every Italian city (where I've been) has a memorial to fallen soldiers in WWII, including on the Eastern Front...
                    You know, in churches they still put candles for them, and on memorial tablets they are marked as eroe di guerra...
                    Do you know how it translates?
                    It’s just that in Italy, unlike Portugal and Spain, the communist movement was not defeated and, in general, the left forces were never banned, although they were removed from power ...
                    That's why half of Italians at Mussolini's age hate...
                    Youth - do not care ...
                    1. Pilat2009
                      Pilat2009 8 August 2022 13: 19
                      0
                      Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                      Well, you said. Just ask the Italians how they feel about Mussolini. And the Portuguese chose Salazar as the greatest man in the country

                      You will be greatly surprised if half of the Italians, looking around, quietly say about Mussolini: "a real leader, father of the nation"?
                      I'll tell you more: every Italian city (where I've been) has a memorial to fallen soldiers in WWII, including on the Eastern Front...
                      You know, in churches they still put candles for them, and on memorial tablets they are marked as eroe di guerra...
                      Do you know how it translates?
                      It’s just that in Italy, unlike Portugal and Spain, the communist movement was not defeated and, in general, the left forces were never banned, although they were removed from power ...
                      That's why half of Italians at Mussolini's age hate...
                      Youth - do not care ...

                      I don’t know about the Communist Party, but most likely they thinned it out decently. But those who belonged to the middle class, and whom the war did not touch, most likely speak about the father of the nation, because that Mussolini, that Hitler had about the same - Italy / Germany is above all, the highest race.
                      1. House 25 Sq. 380
                        House 25 Sq. 380 8 August 2022 22: 40
                        0
                        So they think of themselves as a "superior race": why should they reflect?))
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 2 August 2022 06: 19
    +5
    Spain and Portugal, in fact, were colonies of European powers at that time, primarily France and England. Both Portugal and Spain profited from the tungsten trade. In Spain, there was generally a "tungsten fever" reminiscent of the "gold" in the United States.
    1. VLR
      2 August 2022 07: 02
      +9
      In my opinion, you are wrong. Tungsten fever was in Portugal, there are no significant deposits of tungsten in Spain.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 07: 45
        +6
        there are no significant deposits of tungsten in Spain.
        Yes, 0,5 of the world's proven reserves. Whether it's a lot or a little, I can't judge.
        Thank you, Valery!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 2 August 2022 07: 58
          +7
          It is believed that Portugal has the second place in Europe, and the eighth in the world in terms of the reserve of tungsten ores.

          In Spain, according to confirmed reserves, it is 2,5 times less - 20 thousand tons.
        2. VLR
          2 August 2022 08: 00
          +9
          Even now, after many years of mining and discovery of tungsten deposits around the world, Portugal is in 6th place (China is now in first place). Spain is not on the list of producing countries at all. Apparently, in this regard - "dwarf".
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 August 2022 08: 13
            +8
            Spain in the top ten.
        3. parusnik
          parusnik 2 August 2022 17: 25
          +3
          Thanks Anton
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 August 2022 17: 53
            +2
            Yes, no problem, Alexey!
            It would be very strange for me that, having a highly developed mining and processing industry, having tungsten deposits, it did not use this potential.
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 2 August 2022 17: 58
              +2
              So that's the point! And the film, by the way, is interesting, with documents, a chronicle of how it was and how it is now. There really was a "Wild West". Saloons, gambling houses and not only gambling houses, but now, devastation and desolation ..
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 2 August 2022 18: 26
                +2
                It is in the northwest, and the province of Salamanca quite gives out "on the mountain" the very tenth place in the world, at a quite high technological level. There, developments are carried out according to the second type, it seems like diamonds are being developed in Yakutia.
            2. ycuce234-san
              ycuce234-san 2 August 2022 20: 05
              0
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              having available deposits of tungsten, did not use this potential.


              In wartime, this can only be done by supplying ship armor (it was still relevant) and tanks and risking the invasion of foreign armies.
              And in peacetime, they did not invest in the production of tool steels and tools and machine tools and incandescent lamps with a tungsten filament. Most likely because the market for these high-tech products was already crushed by the post-war United States with their Marshall Plan.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 2 August 2022 20: 23
                0
                Colleague, have you been to Spain?
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 2 August 2022 17: 25
        +2
        No, I'm not mistaken, just on the History channel, I watched a film about tungsten fever in Spain. And then they repeated it. It is impossible to make a mistake twice.
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 2 August 2022 07: 16
      +5
      Almost a democrat.
      But he did not let go of the colony.
      The burden of a white man crushed Salazar - they demanded the right course from him, he led Portugal in that direction
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 2 August 2022 11: 54
        +2
        Uncle was smart.
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 4 August 2022 21: 15
        +1
        Among the Portuguese, interracial marriages were considered quite normal. And assimilated Africans could hold positions, albeit not high ones, in the management system, not only in the colonies, but also in the metropolis.
  3. ee2100
    ee2100 2 August 2022 06: 56
    +10
    The beginning of the XNUMXth century was generous with world-class personalities.
    António de Oliveiro Salazar is one of them.
    He actually created and brought to life the concept of Estado Novo.
    One can argue whether this is good or bad, but as an experiment and its results, they are very valuable.
    Salazar relied on the education of the elite of society, as his locomotive.
    Salazar has a huge number of quotes. Many are still relevant today.
  4. Revolver
    Revolver 2 August 2022 07: 10
    +2
    Actually, I'm a republican, but if I were in Portugal, I would probably become a monarchist. A lot because of this song. I do not understand a word, but to understand the meaning of this song, knowledge of the language is not necessary.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 2 August 2022 07: 53
      +15
      If I were in Portugal, I would become a surfer
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 2 August 2022 08: 18
        +20
        And I'm most likely a port wine lover !!!!))
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 2 August 2022 08: 21
          +11
          It does not interfere laughing
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 2 August 2022 09: 04
          +7
          In Soviet times, I was sure that port wine was the lot of the proletarians, and a decent person should not stoop to this under any circumstances. I even remember the names - 777 (yes, the original 3 axes are by no means a cannon), "Agdam", "Moldavian Pink", and what else was there. “Agdam”, I confess, I tried it for the first time, and it was the last one, and then in my student years, when someone (honestly, not me!) brought THIS to the celebration, I don’t remember what. And it was a shock that I remember to this day. And only after tasting the real Porto, I realized that in the USSR they lied to us, and port wine is not the chatter that, due to some misunderstanding, was called that.
          Although, for my taste, wines in this style are even better made in Cyprus. St. John Commandaria is just a fairy tale.
          1. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 2 August 2022 09: 50
            +4
            You know, once an acquaintance pulled a canister straight from the port wine factory. Of course, not Portugal or Cyprus, but the sky and the earth that was in bottles ... Well, three axes .. Hmm .. And the famous slogan:
            "Portveien" Agdam "- tomorrow's hangover today!"
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 2 August 2022 13: 14
            +4
            The "Crimean Red" is very good, and indeed the whole Massandra is at the level and not worse than Porto, in my opinion.
            As for the Soviet versions of the asshole under the name port, you forgot to mention such a legendary drink as "Kavkaz", and there was also a poison called "Solntsedar", which even inveterate alcoholics could not drink. laughing drinks
          3. Ryaruav
            Ryaruav 2 August 2022 19: 42
            0
            Well, you are a gourmet, my friend, but how do you feel about Soviet brut?
        3. Deep Diver
          Deep Diver 2 August 2022 10: 30
          0
          They also have great wine! Local green on a sun lounger in front of the ocean... mmm... it's a fairy tale!
          1. Ryaruav
            Ryaruav 2 August 2022 19: 44
            +1
            there is nothing better than a case of cold beer on a longchaise in front of an okian
            1. Deep Diver
              Deep Diver 3 August 2022 10: 23
              -1
              Ready to bet! Although the taste of all felt-tip pens is different
      2. Luminman
        Luminman 2 August 2022 08: 18
        +4
        If I were in Portugal, I would become a surfer

        And I would not crawl out of the cellars with port wine ... wink
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 2 August 2022 08: 21
          +5
          And then on the board and catch the wave fellow
          1. Luminman
            Luminman 2 August 2022 09: 07
            +3
            And then on the board and catch the wave

            No, straight to the bed... wink
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 2 August 2022 09: 30
              +4
              With Portuguese))
              1. Luminman
                Luminman 2 August 2022 10: 31
                +2
                With Portuguese))

                I think that after such a libation there will be no time for the Portuguese ... wink
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 2 August 2022 11: 11
                  +9
                  And to the grinder in Czechs, holding a finca in her hands? ))
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 2 August 2022 11: 26
                    +8
                    That way you will reach the Swedes!
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 2 August 2022 12: 05
                      +6
                      Holding Bulgarians in their hands))
          2. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 2 August 2022 10: 39
            +3
            I haven’t been to Portugal, but they say it’s not the warmest ocean off the coast, don’t you know?
            1. VLR
              2 August 2022 10: 50
              +6
              Even in the Spanish region of Costa del Sol, where the highest air temperatures are, and opposite Africa, the water is rather cold due to the proximity of the ocean. The closer to the Atlantic Ocean, the colder the water. Even in the Canary Islands, the water temperature is around 22 degrees all year round.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 August 2022 12: 05
                +5
                Quote: VlR
                Even in the Spanish region of Costa del Sol, where the highest air temperatures are, and opposite Africa, the water is rather cold due to the proximity of the ocean. The closer to the Atlantic Ocean, the colder the water. Even in the Canary Islands, the water temperature is around 22 degrees all year round.

                We have +21 and that happiness!!!
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    4. VLR
      2 August 2022 17: 45
      +3
      To be honest, this loyal song absolutely does not "catch" either the mind or the heart. But this one is another matter. Former Soviet pioneers, remember and nostalgic:

      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 19: 23
        -2
        Former Soviet pioneers, remember and nostalgic:
        Yes schzzz! Should I be nostalgic about all sorts of "friendly states that have declared the socialist path of development"? Dismiss!
        1. Ryaruav
          Ryaruav 2 August 2022 19: 48
          +1
          we desperately need such a smart dictator
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 August 2022 19: 58
            0
            What we desperately need now, it's not for me to argue,
          2. Revolver
            Revolver 2 August 2022 20: 00
            +3
            Well, don't be shy, GDP isn't that bad. Of course, before Stalin, he was like a cancer before China, but not the wino that ruined the USSR, and not the gerontocrats of the 1980s.
        2. VLR
          2 August 2022 20: 01
          0
          Nostalgic is not about the incompetent populist regime of Allende, about the fall of which I, perhaps, will write more, but about childhood and the time of the beginning of growing up.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 August 2022 20: 19
            +3
            When Allende was killed, I was not yet four months old. But my whole school childhood was spent under the auspices of supporting and collecting help for some assholes, like Dr. Hyder and Nelson Mandela (I especially dislike the latter).
          2. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 3 August 2022 13: 33
            +3
            And then, the guys who sang this song matured and leaned into some cooperators, some democrats ... you can’t look at anyone, all Komsomol workers recourse
            No. I don't judge them. But here is a touch to the portrait.
            1. ermak124.0
              ermak124.0 7 August 2022 23: 59
              0
              Well, definitely not all. I now preferred serving the Motherland in uniform. Pathetic? But that's just the way it is.
              1. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 8 August 2022 12: 38
                0
                Quote: ermak124.0
                Well, definitely not all.

                Of course.
                Quote: ermak124.0
                serving the Motherland in uniform

                Do not consider it an attack (I am by no means talking about you), but among the people in uniform there were people of all sorts. It seems that loyalty to ideals has just been pushed about the socialist homeland, and already you look at this very homeland wholesale and retail trades.
      2. MBRSS
        MBRSS 3 August 2022 00: 25
        +3
        Former Soviet pioneers, remember and nostalgic:

        I have probably already heard about five variants of the Russian text. The song is, of course, a masterpiece. But it's better to listen to the original:
    5. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 August 2022 19: 14
      0
      Yes, you are a romantic, colleague!
    6. The comment was deleted.
  5. depressant
    depressant 2 August 2022 07: 16
    +6
    Over the centuries of colonial expansion, Portugal simply overstrained itself, losing at first young healthy men who died at sea or settled in new lands, and then entire families of immigrants ...

    Hmm... that reminds me of something...
    Passionary outcome. It happens different.

    But there was already an article about Salazar.
    Demonstrative life is always relevant.
    1. VLR
      2 August 2022 07: 21
      +11
      Yes, Macedonia "overstrained itself" in the same way under Alexander - the young passionate Macedonians left, creating new states and the Hellenistic world, Macedonia, having lost them, "collapsed" and went to the periphery of world history. Another example -. Mongolia of Genghis Khan - "thrown away" all passionary energy and turned into "ash on a cold hearth."
      1. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 19: 44
        0
        Quote: VlR
        Yes, Macedonia "overstrained itself" in the same way under Alexander - the young passionate Macedonians left, creating new states and the Hellenistic world, Macedonia, having lost them, "collapsed" and went to the periphery of world history. Another example -. Mongolia of Genghis Khan - "thrown away" all passionary energy and turned into "ash on a cold hearth."

        I disagree about Mongolia. Even after the loss of China, they gave a light to the Chinese, and the Oirats? The Dzungars shook that region very strongly and Cf. Asia. Yes, and Greece, they could not even oppose anything to small Macedonia. Thebes only really resisted, and the rest of Greece, except for the Peloponnese, simply meekly surrendered to tiny Macedonia. So it's not the same with Greece. The excess population just left as it was before. The era of the Great Greek colonization was long before the Macedonian one and much larger than the mass one. But it did not affect Greek activity in any way.
        1. VLR
          3 August 2022 20: 45
          +1
          After Alexander, Macedonia lost its importance and turned into the outskirts of the Greek world - which it was before, before Philip. And she could become a hegemon and, perhaps, take the place of Rome in the Mediterranean - if not for Alexander. And the Greek policies turned into donors of the Hellenistic states founded by the Diadochi - young enterprising people went to make a career in the states of the Ptolemies or the Seleucids.
          1. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 4 August 2022 10: 38
            0
            I could not ... and Philip and Alexander did not conquer Greece. Because that was not part of their plans. The Peloponnese, and this is half of what was then Greece, they did not even touch, secured their immediate borders, eliminated their rival for the influence of Thebes, and that's it.
  6. Luminman
    Luminman 2 August 2022 07: 39
    +8
    Quote: VlR
    Mongolia of Genghis Khan - "thrown away" all passionary energy and turned into "ash on a cooled hearth"

    Well, there is a reverse example - Britain. At one time, she also threw out all her passionary energy in the form of Puritans, Independents and other Calvinists, however, she did not turn into "ash on a cold hearth". On the contrary, its heyday came at a time when a significant part of North America "left" it.

    Apparently, there are some other laws of the rise and fall of states...
    1. VLR
      2 August 2022 07: 55
      +17
      Here Britain did not throw out all the passionaries, but the extra ones - who would arrange revolution after revolution in it. The rest were enough. At the same time, Britain "thrown out" the passionate Scots and Irish much more than the passionate English. There was a saying: 'The Scots conquered the empire, the Irish built it, the English ruled it.'
      1. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 20: 11
        0
        Well, what kind of Irish passionaries? They simply fled from the repression of hunger and poverty. The Scots also moved not from a good life.
        1. VLR
          3 August 2022 20: 37
          +1
          But someone stayed in Ireland and Scotland, didn't they? Ordinary people who preferred to starve, but to stay at home, where everything is familiar, clear, understandable, you can plan something. But people of an adventurous warehouse risked going into the unknown across the ocean, to an empty place - according to the principle "either pan or go missing."
          1. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 4 August 2022 10: 29
            0
            Then the Irish in general are not ordinary people in themselves, because almost 2/3 of the population left.
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 07: 56
      +3
      Quote: Luminman
      Well, there is a reverse example - Britain.

      and the Roman Empire!
      1. VLR
        2 August 2022 08: 03
        +12
        And Rome "sucked out" passionaries from other countries. You look at the people of what nationalities were emperors there. The same Ottoman Empire - for the time being, in the highest positions in the army and civil administration
        completely renegades.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 08: 43
          +4
          Quote: VlR
          You look at the people of what nationalities were emperors there.
          What? I meant the dawn of Rome up until the "5 Good Emperors". Trajan was a descendant of the Roman colonists in Spain, and that was a resonance in society. And so the Romans settled in the occupied territories
          1. VLR
            2 August 2022 08: 56
            +7
            While there were enough of their passionate people, they managed. It was no longer enough - they began to pull from other peoples.
            By the way, now the United States is trying to do this - they are robbing other countries by organizing a "brain drain". Since they themselves have such a low-level education system (through the efforts of "children's rights activists") that the US math team is called "China's second team", there are many Indian doctors among doctors.
      2. Luminman
        Luminman 2 August 2022 08: 09
        +3
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        and the Roman Empire!

        On the contrary, Rome attracted all passionate people like a magnet, starting with the Etruscans at the time of the birth of the empire and already at its decline, ending with the barbarians ...

        Quote: VlR
        Same Ottoman Empire

        The Ottoman Empire is a classical empire. It opened up opportunities for all ethnic groups of its inhabitants. But on one condition - loyalty!
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 08: 46
          +2
          Quote: Luminman
          On the contrary, Rome attracted all passionate people like a magnet, starting with the Etruscans at the time of the birth of the empire and already at its decline, ending with the barbarians ...
          The remains of Roman roads and cities throughout Europe are found - who, if not passionaries, built them? even the remains of Hadrian's Wall survived
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 August 2022 09: 01
            +6
            The remains of Roman roads and cities throughout Europe are found - who but the passionaries built them?
            About 10 thousand kilometers only in England.
            2. Slaves and legionnaires.
          2. VLR
            2 August 2022 09: 13
            +6
            And passionaries are passionaries because they themselves do not build - they force others who are not passionaries. Passionaries - leaders, organizers, commanders, chieftains, condottieres, heresiarchs and so on. .
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 09: 23
              +4
              Quote: VlR
              And passionaries are passionaries because they themselves do not build - they force others who are not passionaries.
              These are not passionaries, but exploiters, sorry. Passionaries can inspire by their example, if necessary. Peter I, for example, or Vladimir Ilyich, with a famous log
              1. VLR
                2 August 2022 09: 37
                +6
                And you find a robber chieftain or leader of the Vikings, who got into the position "by pull"! Or - the founder of the sect, Great generals and. They don't become monarchs either. Here, Louis 13, the son of the great Henry of Navarre, who is all - with his own hands - zero without a wand, which is Richelieu. Passonaries - make themselves, exploiters - are born in palaces, or - marauders during the collapse of states, and leave behind ruins - like Russian oligarchs.
                1. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 3 August 2022 13: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: VlR
                  Here, Louis 13, the son of the great Henry of Navarre, who is all - with his own hands - zero without a wand, which is Richelieu.

                  But-but! And who lured Richelieu from his mother, at the age of 16?
                  Louis simply knew how to remain inconspicuous, hiding behind the figure of the supposedly omnipotent cardinal. As for the "trace in history", as the French say, it is difficult to be the son of Henry of Nvar and the father of Louis the Sun.
                2. alexey sidykin
                  alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 19: 59
                  0
                  It’s just that Navarre turned out to be the luck of his relatives Condé and Guise, who were so bogged down in intrigues against each other that everyone missed it.
              2. Engineer
                Engineer 2 August 2022 09: 42
                +7
                Astanavites (s)
                Not only was the "passionary theory" again brought into the historical one, but it was distorted)))
                This is not only for you, but also for the author of the article.
                Passionaries do not build roads. They fight in the forefront, preach a new doctrine, sail to the ends of the world.
                And they do not force others to build - there are bureaucrats for this.
                1. VLR
                  2 August 2022 09: 52
                  +1
                  And in your opinion, a brilliant administrator cannot be a passionate person? Passionarity only allows you to realize your abilities: someone has the abilities of a leader, someone has control, and someone simply becomes a stubborn athlete who wins literally dying and giving all the reserves of the body - on "moral-volitional" qualities.
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 2 August 2022 10: 04
                    +8
                    According to Gumilyov, anyone can be a passionary.
                    Passionarity will only hinder a brilliant administrator.
                    Passionarity only allows you to realize your abilities

                    No. Willpower is needed to realize abilities. Will is not passionarity. Passionarity is an attraction that is stronger than the instinct of self-preservation. By definition. That's all.
                    The ability to manage in itself is cognitive, analytical and does not correlate with passionarity. They are on different planes.
                    1. VLR
                      2 August 2022 10: 11
                      0
                      And Gumilyov believed that great artists, writers, and other creators are people with a weak positive charge of passionarity. Which is not enough to make you want to become a pioneer, but enough for a young man with abilities to suddenly become persistent in writing books or paintings, without giving up after the first failures. Instead of running along with peers in taverns and women. Here Salazar fits this definition.
                      1. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 10: 24
                        +5
                        And Gumilyov believed that great artists, writers, and other creators are people with a weak positive charge of passionarity.

                        Gumilyov, to explain the behavior of people of culture, introduced a special essence - attractiveness - the desire for beauty. This is an analogue of passionarity along a different coordinate axis.
                        You write any figure that you like in passionaries. And Salazar is an ordinary gray moth, a figure personifying the compromise of all sectors of society, but with a good, correct background. A true technocrat. That's all.
                      2. VLR
                        2 August 2022 19: 55
                        0
                        Yes, such a typical "gray mouse", which came from nowhere, having no power behind it - and "built" the generals who seized power in the country. I unceremoniously pushed them out of government - and for some reason they sat quietly and meekly, "where they were imprisoned," and did not get into the big affairs of the big uncle. Just a typical "gray mouse" - there are no others.
                2. Stirbjorn
                  Stirbjorn 2 August 2022 10: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Passionaries do not build roads. They fight in the forefront, preach a new doctrine, sail to the ends of the world.
                  And they do not force others to build - there are bureaucrats for this.

                  That is, they lay roads and found cities, not passionaries, but bureaucrats. Your "passionaries" are just thugs, in fact. I will not write more in this thread, because the degree of stupidity in the answers is starting to go off scale. hi
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 2 August 2022 10: 14
                    +6
                    Passionarity according to Gumilyov is an irresistible internal, usually unconscious, desire for a goal, often illusory. At the same time, the goal seems to be more valuable to the passionary than his own life. This is from the book "The End and the Beginning Again"

                    Passionaries are really quite often scumbags.
                    But not all scumbags are passionaries and not all passionaries are scumbags.

                    The degree of stupidity in the answers begins when the theory of passionarity begins to be attracted to explain historical phenomena. And if this is done by people who have not read or forgotten Gumilyov, then it becomes quite sad. At least Lev Nikolaevich had fun.
                    1. VLR
                      2 August 2022 10: 44
                      +3
                      So, in your opinion, Ignatius Loyola and Francis of Assisi, who, instead of fighting, created powerful Catholic monastic orders from scratch, the great politician Richelieu, who “built France”, Nikita Demidov, who did not enlist in the army, but created an industrial empire - Are all great organizers and administrators not passionate? I'm afraid that Gumilyov would definitely disagree with you.
                      1. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 11: 01
                        +2
                        According to Gumilyov, Loyola was a passionary. But this does not mean that they were Richelieu and Demidov. You equate any ambition with passionarity. Gumilyov would call it a profanation. ))
                      2. VLR
                        2 August 2022 11: 09
                        +3
                        Gumilyov in his works directly called great artists, writers, founders of world religions (even the most peaceful ones) and sects passionate people (albeit with a small charge of passionarity) - whether you like it or not. And there is nothing to say about politicians: "big politics" is a kind of war that is only waged by other means. The outbreak of hostilities is, as a rule, a convulsive paroxysm of impotence, when politicians have failed. And the guns, according to Richelieu, are already the very "last argument of the king." Exactly what we have now in Ukraine. Decades of failed policy, did not pay attention to the most alarming symptoms and sent absolutely incompetent people as ambassadors - Chernomyrdin and Zurabov. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and intelligence overslept all the Maidans, did not notice the bribery of Ukrainian politicians by the State Department (only 5 billion was spent) and changes in mood in Ukrainian society, previously friendly. They did not take even elementary measures to spread their influence on the younger generations. And here you are - NWO, which has neither end nor edge.
                      3. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 11: 43
                        +2
                        Gumilyov in his works directly called great artists, writers, founders of world religions (even the most peaceful ones) and sects passionate people (albeit with a small charge of passionarity) - whether you like it or not.

                        Called, I do not argue with that. But at the same time, he himself got confused when determining the contribution of passionarity for such personalities. Otherwise, I would not have introduced the concept of attractiveness - the artistic desire for a cultural ideal for artists.
                        And there is nothing to say about politicians: "big politics" is a kind of war that is only waged by other means. The outbreak of hostilities is, as a rule, a convulsive paroxysm of impotence, when politicians have failed. And the guns, according to Richelieu, are already the very "last argument of the king." Exactly what we have now in Ukraine.

                        And this is your gag. Gumilyov did not automatically record politicians in passionaries. Only some figures of historical scale.
                        And "entrepreneurs" like Demidov too
                        The thirst for money and power is inherent in most people to varying degrees. This is not a marker of passionarity.
                        And your annoying desire to attract Ukraine in everything only says that you do not study history, but only use it.
                      4. VLR
                        2 August 2022 12: 04
                        +2
                        The mention of Ukraine in this context is a fresh example of unsuccessful big politics, which has become the cause of the current situation. As for the fact that not all politicians are passionate - it's obvious! A passionate politician is a rarity, a pearl in a dunghill, a great happiness for the state that has acquired him as ruler. The political system of all countries is arranged in such a way as to bring to power a complete nonentity, which will be controlled by "puppeteers". The same Biden, who has clear signs of senile dementia, is quite satisfied with the current elite of the US Democratic Party. How the alcoholic Yeltsin arranged the "seven bankers".
                      5. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 12: 15
                        +3
                        Politics is about pragmatism, and not about achieving "goals, often illusory" at any cost (C)
                        Passionarity in itself is neither a good nor a bad quality according to the same Gumilyov. This is a natural phenomenon and no evaluation criteria can be applied to it.
                        The political system of all countries is arranged in such a way as to bring to power a complete nonentity, which will be controlled by "puppeteers".

                        Only conspiracy theory in addition to passionarity theory was missing in the historical section. Now everything is beauty.
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 12: 30
                        +1
                        A passionate politician is a rarity, a pearl in a dunghill, a great happiness for the state that has acquired him as ruler.
                        As for me, it is exactly the opposite!
                      7. Ryaruav
                        Ryaruav 2 August 2022 19: 59
                        -4
                        your Gumilyov is not a historian, but a bourgeois inventor of all sorts of shit like passionarity, but let's say in purely Russian what kind of beast
                      8. frog
                        frog 4 August 2022 13: 39
                        0
                        Decades of failed policy, did not pay attention to the most alarming symptoms and sent absolutely incompetent people as ambassadors - Chernomyrdin and Zurabov. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and intelligence overslept all the Maidans, did not notice the bribery of Ukrainian politicians by the State Department (only 5 billion was spent) and the change in mood in Ukrainian society, which was previously friendly. They did not take even elementary measures to spread their influence on the younger generations.

                        Purely IMHO, but it is strange to equate passionarity and professionalism. The example you gave (and you can also recall examples from the history of the "great and mighty" of the same property) only says that the tasks of being professional comrades (de jure, that is, for officially voiced purposes, it is quite possible that they are unvoiced they decided quite professionally)) these ... did not have figures. What, in fact, they continued the glorious traditions of the already mentioned deceased ....
                        Taking into account the fact that on other, sorry, fronts, with achievements, it’s about the same - you depicted some kind of sad picture repeat
                    2. Tech_Orchestra
                      Tech_Orchestra 2 August 2022 21: 47
                      -4


                      Here it is very well told about Gumilyov and his theory, in short - science-like nonsense.
                      1. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 23: 16
                        +1
                        It's not for me, it's for the author of the article.
                        I fell ill with Gumilyov by the 5th course
                      2. Tech_Orchestra
                        Tech_Orchestra 2 August 2022 23: 29
                        +1
                        I rather attached a discussion to the header, and I really appreciate your rationality.
                      3. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 23: 35
                        0
                        I serve Clio to the best of my ability)
                      4. alexey sidykin
                        alexey sidykin 3 August 2022 20: 05
                        +2
                        Quote: Engineer
                        It's not for me, it's for the author of the article.
                        I fell ill with Gumilyov by the 5th course

                        And to me, he, as a specialist in the history of Mongolia and the Turks, is even nothing, but his theory of passionarity and interpretation of the relationship between the steppe and Russia did not impress in any way.
                3. Luminman
                  Luminman 2 August 2022 10: 38
                  0
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Passionaries do not build roads

                  Build. This is a secondary direction of their activity after the conquests. Remember the English evangelists who set up colonies in North America - they fought with the Indians, built and plowed and traded. Classic passionaries...

                  Quote: Engineer
                  The degree of stupidity in the answers begins when when the theory of passionarity begins to be attracted to explain historical phenomena

                  The words "passionarity" and "passionaries" have long gone beyond the limits that Gumilev assigned them ...

                  Quote: Stirbjorn
                  That is, they lay roads and found cities, not passionaries, but bureaucrats

                  Anyone can lay roads and build cities. But under the idea and direct control of passionaries
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 2 August 2022 10: 50
                    +3
                    Remember the English evangelists who set up colonies in North America - they fought with the Indians, built and plowed and traded. Classic passionaries...

                    And for me it is obvious that among the migrants there were people of all three types - passionaries, subpassionaries, harmonists. And if we discard Gumilyov, then the simplest explanation - the colonists were very different, looks like the most correct.
                    According to Gumilyov, the classic passionaries were "people of long will." Evangelicals have little in common with them.
                    The words "passionarity" and "passionaries" have already gone beyond the limits that Gumilev assigned them ...

                    Well, how did you get out. Gumilyov tried to give it a scientific appearance, an academic flair. Now passionarity is a mass cultural term, even a meme to some extent. So it's better to stay within Gumilev's framework to reduce the concentration of any game.
                    1. Luminman
                      Luminman 2 August 2022 11: 05
                      +1
                      Quote: Engineer
                      And for me it is obvious that among the migrants there were people of all three types - passionaries, subpassionaries, harmonious

                      Nothing like this! Only one definition is suitable for immigrants - passionaries. A small example: would you now decide to leave your home and city, move somewhere in the taiga and start a new life there from scratch? And the then settlers could! For an idea! To build your "city on a hill"...

                      Quote: Engineer
                      Now passionarity is a mass cultural term, even a meme to some extent

                      I agree with that ...
                      1. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 12: 02
                        +6
                        Nothing like this! Only one definition is suitable for immigrants - passionaries. A small example: would you now decide to leave your home and city, move somewhere in the taiga and start a new life there from scratch?

                        What is another analogy with the taiga?
                        The latitude of New York is the latitude of Sochi. From the sea, a soft breeze and the Gulf Stream make the climate very fertile. Newfoundland was fantastically rich in fish. Richer than the Dogger Bank where else to avoid the loyalist Flemings of the wars with Spain and the Dutch of the wars with Holland. And cod is tastier than herring and has fewer bones. No insular English bans on hunting and fishing inland. Taxes are minimal and you can always get away from them by moving inland. Cooper's "land hunters" used shifting farming to shoot three crops a year. For the colonists, America is precisely the ideal place for the application of labor. It will be hard, but if you work, your future is secured. The climate is excellent, there is no crowding. The island dump is resting. Raids are not carried out in taverns, they are not forcibly dragged into the glorious English fleet.
                        On the eve of the war for independence, the colonists paid taxes 5-10 times less than the inhabitants of the metropolis.
                        This is not passionarity. This is common sense and calculation. Well, the eternal human belief that overseas is better.
                      2. Luminman
                        Luminman 2 August 2022 12: 10
                        0
                        The latitude of New York is the latitude of Sochi. From the sea, a soft breeze and the Gulf Stream make the climate very fertile

                        I have been to NY several times and somehow did not notice the fertile climate there...
                        PS Localities located at the same latitude may have different heights above sea level. Hence the different climate...
                      3. Engineer
                        Engineer 2 August 2022 12: 23
                        +6
                        New York has a good climate, and in the 17th century it was even better because of the woodlands. The rivers are fuller, the grass is greener, etc. To understand New York, it must be compared with London, where in the 17th century there were practically no forests. And there was also a plague epidemic, in America, due to low density, almost impossible.
                        Why deny the obvious, they went overseas for a better life, made mistakes, froze out of ignorance, inability. They died at the hands of the Indians. But they went for a better life, and not at the call of passionarity. And since economically active people were driving, the hail on the hill
                        built and overtook the former metropolis
                      4. Luminman
                        Luminman 2 August 2022 14: 09
                        0
                        They died at the hands of the Indians. But they went for a better life, and not at the call of passionarity

                        Precisely at the call of passionarity! The new religion called them to build a good life! T. n. "non-passionary" would sit somewhere in London by the stove, scolding the Irish, raising children and going to church. To go to the New World, to the unknown, risking one's life for the sake of an idea - only a passionary can decide on such a thing. Something like this...
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 14: 18
                        +3
                        Precisely at the call of passionarity! The new religion called them to build a good life!
                        This was especially reflected in the founding of the colony in Botany Bay!)))
                      6. Luminman
                        Luminman 2 August 2022 14: 37
                        -1
                        Not quite on topic. And what was there? Convicts?
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 14: 51
                        +5
                        Yes. Exactly the same miserables that landed from the Mayflower, only without the shackles. That's some passionate romance...
                      8. parusnik
                        parusnik 2 August 2022 18: 10
                        +2
                        "Romance", began later, when gold was found, then the "passionaries" flooded. Conan Doyle has a story about such passionaries from the series of stories about Sherlock Holmes.
                      9. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 18: 27
                        +2
                        Like Conan Doyle? Not Jack London?
                      10. parusnik
                        parusnik 2 August 2022 19: 21
                        +3
                        Conan Doyle .. There one robbed a carriage, with gold, but did not kill the coachman, and the coachman then blackmailed him in England, plus love, carrots .. between the children of these families. I don’t remember the name.
                      11. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 19: 29
                        0
                        Hmm... Strange, but I don't remember... Sorry!
                        By the way, there is a good feature film "Klondike". See if possible...
                      12. parusnik
                        parusnik 2 August 2022 19: 36
                        +1
                        Ok. Yes, a weak story. Like Murder in some kind of valley. Holmes and Watson were on vacation. In general, dads died, one was killed, the second died himself, and before his death he repented to Holmes, and the children got married.
                      13. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 19: 43
                        +1
                        Rather, the story is characteristic of the "Scottish" novels of Walter Scott ... However, I don't know, probably I haven't read it ...
                      14. parusnik
                        parusnik 2 August 2022 19: 59
                        +6
                        No, no, Doyle, Conan, who Arthur..Remembered..The mystery of Boscombe Valley, oh how smile
                      15. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 20: 06
                        +1
                        You, Alex, once again managed to surprise me!
                        Either I didn't read it, or I completely forgot!
                      16. parusnik
                        parusnik 2 August 2022 20: 14
                        +1
                        Nothing, you can read it on the Internet .. smile
                      17. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 20: 27
                        +1
                        Thank you! I'll update my experience!
                        By the way, Doyle hated his fame as a writer of detective stories...
                      18. parusnik
                        parusnik 2 August 2022 20: 32
                        +2
                        Yes .. But Holmes' stories were more profitable .. smile
                      19. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 20: 34
                        0
                        Well, yes! Everything is as always, "loot will conquer evil"!
  7. VLR
    2 August 2022 07: 43
    +8
    By the way, the great humanist and non-resistance to evil J. Nehru very brazenly annexed the Portuguese overseas territory of Goa. At the same time, the population of Goa did not at all dream of "reunification" with impoverished India, which is full of tribes and nationalities alien to each other. If it were not for the infrastructure created by Portugal and the relative Europeanization of the local population, thanks to which Goa has become a world-class resort (and neighboring coasts do not even try to attract tourists), there would now be a second Calcutta - the luxurious imperial city of British India and the poorest and most unhappy city Republic of India, where cows graze in
    parks, trees grow on the roofs of Victorian palaces, blood sacrifices are made in the temple of Kali, and the street rickshaw profession is considered a prestigious job.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 2 August 2022 07: 57
      +6
      Quote: VlR
      By the way, the great humanist and non-resistance to evil J. Nehru

      So the sweetheart of all liberalism Mahatma Gandhi had one very famous "dear friend".
      1. depressant
        depressant 2 August 2022 08: 56
        +2
        And detail?)))
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 2 August 2022 09: 29
          +8
          Aloizych)).
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 August 2022 09: 46
            +5
            There was another fiery fighter against British colonialism, Subhas Chandras Bose.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 2 August 2022 10: 09
              +2
              There were enough of them throughout the British Empire))))
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 2 August 2022 10: 12
                +5
                This one became famous for the creation of the Waffen-SS Legion "Free India".
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 2 August 2022 10: 19
                  +5
                  Yes, there are many who became famous for what, the Mufti of Jerusalem participated in the creation of the Khanjar SS division, Stern tried to contact Ribentrop with an offer of cooperation in order to save European Jews, etc.
                  1. Luminman
                    Luminman 2 August 2022 11: 29
                    0
                    Mufti of Jerusalem participated in the creation of the SS division Khanjar

                    Yes, this mufti didn’t give a damn about either the SS or Hitler! He was playing his own game - independence from Britain. And I would go to an alliance even with the devil ... wink
                    1. VLR
                      2 August 2022 11: 39
                      +3
                      So it’s possible to say the Ukrainian Westerners and the Balts from the SS! Do you propose to justify them too?
                    2. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 2 August 2022 12: 13
                      +5
                      The mufti was cool - he slaughtered the opposing Nashashibi clan, ran into the Kabardians with the Adygs living in Palestine, provoked the Arab-Israeli conflict with pogroms)).
                      Local Bander-Shukhevych laughing As for the Britons, they smeared him away from Nuremberg (the Mufti lived in Berlin until 1944 and participated in the activities of the pro-Hitler Muslims in Yugoslavia). It’s just that the British were then at knifepoint with the Palestinian Jews, so they let the mufti live his life in Cairo or Beirut (I don’t remember anymore)
                  2. Catfish
                    Catfish 2 August 2022 12: 43
                    +4
                    13th SS Khanjar Volunteer Mountain Division (1st Croatian)

                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 2 August 2022 14: 13
                      +5
                      There were a lot of Bosnians there, not only Croats. After the war, they fled to Palestine and Syria. I have already forgotten their names, at checkpoints their descendants were constantly brainwashed, cars were searched to the screw, etc.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 August 2022 14: 34
                        +3
                        Was the audience tough?
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 2 August 2022 14: 54
                        +4
                        Arabized. If they see a crowd of people, they pull themselves out, if they understand that we will cripple without witnesses (that is, without consequences for us in terms of criminal liability), then they are quiet and obedient. And if a camera or a camera flickers somewhere (there were no smartphones then) - in general, heroes laughing
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 August 2022 15: 04
                        +4
                        It reminds me of someone from our God-saved fatherland. Well, it looks very similar. laughing
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 2 August 2022 16: 34
                        +5
                        Those whom they remind you of are more normal. At times, and yes
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 August 2022 16: 57
                        +3
                        I like that we understand each other perfectly. smile
                      6. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 4 August 2022 22: 02
                        +2
                        Bosnian Muslims were part of the Independent Croatian State during the war. Therefore, by citizenship, they were formally considered Croats.
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 4 August 2022 22: 33
                        +1
                        Yes, like
                        And now they are light-eyed and fair-haired Palestinians - trash)))
                      8. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 4 August 2022 23: 58
                        +2
                        It is interesting that for many Bosniaks the appearance is closer to that which is usually considered Slavic, compared to the darker Serbs and Croats.) The Montenegrins related to them (whom the Serbs consider Serbs, and a good half of the Montenegrins themselves also consider) the people for the most part cute, handsome tall people. But in appearance, many have something elusive Italian.)
                      9. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 August 2022 01: 48
                        +2
                        The Romans were naughty))
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 2 August 2022 12: 49
                  +2
                  Legion of the Waffen-SS "Free India".


                  Pegion "Free India" existed, but by no means the SS, they had an army uniform.



                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 2 August 2022 13: 14
                    +3
                    I read several materials about this unit, everywhere it is indicated that it was an SS formation.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 2 August 2022 13: 32
                      +4
                      Hello Anton! smile

                      Yes, you can write anything you want, just look at the photo of this non-commissioned officer, if it weren’t for a turban, it’s just pure Wehrmacht.



                      By the way, I also met references to the fact that this is precisely the SS. It happens. smile
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 13: 47
                        +5
                        Field uniform of the Waffen-SS model 1940

                        Hi Uncle Kostya!
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 August 2022 14: 33
                        +2
                        It’s generally not clear what kind of jacket, almost from the time of the First World War, but the real field uniform of the SS units.



                        In general, changes took place by 1939, and affected the appearance of the SS in connection with their participation in hostilities, and the renaming of the “Allgemeine (general) SS” into “Waffen (armed) SS”.
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 14: 47
                        +3
                        The tunics of the Waffen-SS field uniform were five-button. The sixth button was introduced on the field uniform of the Wehrmacht in 1941. That is, in the photograph you cited, some "especially gifted" reenactor attached SS insignia to the combined arms tunic.
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 August 2022 15: 11
                        +3
                        You're right, there are five buttons

                        But there are six

                        And to be honest, I never counted the number of buttons on their uniforms, I always occupied the correspondence of chevrons, cockades, etc. smile
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 August 2022 15: 12
                        +2
                        And here it is generally not clear what kind of troops the tunic belongs to. request
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 2 August 2022 15: 22
                        +2
                        Information and photo taken from here.
                        https://max--ostendorff-livejournal-com.turbopages.org/max-ostendorff.livejournal.com/s/656.html
                      7. Catfish
                        Catfish 2 August 2022 15: 39
                        +2
                        I looked, an interesting article, I will read it at my leisure, thanks. smile

                        As for the buttons... smile
                        "The whole decision is in the waist. Where do you think we will make the waist? At chest level.
                        ― Brilliant!
                        ― Brilliant, like everything is true.
                        “I will not allow you to lower the waistline to the hips. After all, we are the center of Europe. I will not let any Spaniards dictate terms to us. If you want a detachable sleeve - please. Do you want a pleated skirt with darts? I accept this too. But I won’t let you lower the waist line. "(c)

    2. hohol95
      hohol95 3 August 2022 13: 50
      +2
      Nehru had a decent "war machine" at hand.
      Against which it was simply suicidal for some Portuguese to compete.
      Ground forces:
      17th Infantry Division (commander - Major General K.P. Kandit) - a total of 7 battalions, to which a squadron of Sherman tanks was attached.
      Another 3 battalions were to capture Diu and Daman.
      Aviation :
      20 Canberra, 6 Vampires, 6 Typhoons, 6 Hunters and 4 Mystery
      Navy:
      2 cruisers, 1 destroyer, 8 frigates, 4 minesweepers - under the command of Rear Admiral B.S. Soman.
      Portuguese forces:
      3995 military personnel (including 810 local residents from auxiliary units), 1040 police and 400 border guards. The main forces were deployed in the cities, small EREK units (rapid response units) were stationed on the border.
      Navy:
      the old frigate Afonso de Albuquerque and three patrol boats.
      There is no air force, tanks and artillery.
      There were no anti-tank weapons.

      It was easy for Indian "peacekeepers and peace lovers" to portray peaceful yogis sitting on the "bayonets" of their army!
  8. Korsar4
    Korsar4 2 August 2022 08: 07
    +5
    They forbade marriage - and became a man.
    Thank you, Valery!
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 2 August 2022 08: 20
      +8
      Officers were allowed to marry if the bride had a university education.
      Mandatory wedding of civil servants and officers.
      Bloody dictatorship!
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 2 August 2022 16: 32
      +1
      "Don't marry female students,
      They are fat as sausages "(c)

      Hello, Sergey! smile
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 2 August 2022 19: 04
        +1
        Hi Constantine!

        And at the same time:

        You can't live without women
        In the world, no!
        You are our happiness
        As the poet said!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 2 August 2022 19: 19
          0
          But on the other side...

          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 2 August 2022 20: 22
            +1
            Zulfiya is ironing my robe at the board,
            Gyuli sews, and Fatma darns socks.
            Three wives beauty, do not say.
            But on the other hand, the mother-in-law is also three
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 2 August 2022 21: 21
              +1
              Like a Turkish saber, your camp,
              The mouth is a red-hot ruby.
              If I were a Turkish sultan,
              I would take you as my wife.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 2 August 2022 21: 34
                +1
                In the evening, in the evening the watchman beat
                In a mallet that there is strength!
                How the jackal Epstein roamed
                Under the window of a sweet rose.
                The lamp went out, the window sobbed,
                There is a white, delicate spot in the frame.
                Epstein climbed - love is not a potato:
                Drive through the door, burst through the window
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 2 August 2022 22: 14
                  +1
                  My Spanish guitar.
                  Without hesitation, I gave up.
                  I burst into flames.
                  The music moved passionately.

                  Where there are curtained windows.
                  And the face of the moon caresses the eyes.
                  And I'm cold and wet.
                  I'm trying to start a conversation.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 2 August 2022 22: 45
                    +1
                    Just met two loneliness
                    They made a fire by the road
                    I don’t want to make a fire,
                    That's it, that's the whole conversation
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 3 August 2022 00: 02
                      +1
                      My fire in the fog shines;
                      Sparks go out on the fly ...
                      No one will meet us at night;
                      We will say goodbye on the bridge.
  9. astra wild2
    astra wild2 2 August 2022 08: 22
    0
    Good morning. Colleagues, I love Valery's materials: they are informative and written in a living language, and now I want to complain about Valery.
    Previously, Valery had cycles: sultans, Mamluks, the Napoleonic era, "black-footed", "dictators", and now keep up with him: Catherine de Medici, followed by the "Napoleonics", and today Salazar, where is the logic? How can a poor woman do it?
    Swallow everything, like a hamster, "remember Viktor Nikolaevich scolded, I don't want to. I want to be, at least a little, but in the subject, and I also want to read a book.
    How can I keep up with Valery?
  10. astra wild2
    astra wild2 2 August 2022 08: 23
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Quote: VlR
    By the way, the great humanist and non-resistance to evil J. Nehru

    So the sweetheart of all liberalism Mahatma Gandhi had one very famous "dear friend".

    And who is he?
  11. know
    know 2 August 2022 08: 31
    +3
    against everything that weakens, divides, dissolves the family

    Golden words!
  12. depressant
    depressant 2 August 2022 09: 26
    +5
    At the beginning of the 60th century, XNUMX% of the population was employed in agriculture, but the development of latifundia led to the ruin of many peasants. They could not get a job in urban factories, as in other countries, due to the lack of a sufficient number of industrial enterprises.

    Again, this reminds me of something...
    But the peasant is not inclined to all sorts of revolutions. But it also happens that the excommunication of a peasant from the land by “latifundia” (read agro-industrial companies) may have a sufficient period for it to become necessary to distribute land in millions of hectares to aliens with an alien mentality - plow, sow! There are no more of their own.
    You read an article (sorry, not "material"), and sad thoughts arise.
  13. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 2 August 2022 09: 36
    +1
    [b
    ] The rebel detachments were divided into allegedly socialist (MPLA party) and openly nationalist, which consisted mainly of representatives of the Bakongo people (UPA party, then UNITA).
    [/b] And why supposedly? The MPLA was such. then the extent of North Korea and socialist Romania. But UNITA, it had an original ideology, if you can call it anti-communist socialism. They relied on the ovimbunda. The Bakongo and Ovimbundu belong to the large Bantu tribal group. And yet, during the civil war and the war for liberation, the FNLA and UNITA proclaimed their own republics on the territory of Angola. In areas where precious stones, oil, and other minerals were mined. The MPLA was also supported by Sweden, the Swedes financed health care and education, allocated money for the purchase of vehicles.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 4 August 2022 22: 21
      0
      Romania had quite friendly relations with Angola under the control of the MPLA. I judge by the issues of the Russian-language magazine "Socialist Romania Today" that I read in my student years. Or are you writing about the period of the struggle for independence? By the way, I was surprised that in the USSR it was possible to read this magazine, which contained information, for example, about Ceausescu's meetings with Prince Sihanouk at a time when the pro-Vietnamese and pro-Soviet government of Heng Samrin was in power in Kampuchea. The magazine also gave a slightly different interpretation of the Sino-Vietnamese conflict of 1979, as well as the entry of ATS troops into Czechoslovakia in 1968.
  14. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 2 August 2022 09: 49
    +4
    Getting rid of the Portuguese who built roads and power plants
    Oh, come on. Just tears of tenderness, "Salazar's light bulb" in every Angolan village. laughing How the Portuguese discovered Angola for themselves and immediately engaged in enlightenment among the peoples inhabiting Angola, and did not arrange a "social competition" among the Angolan tribes, who would catch each other and give the captives to the Portuguese for beads. Which, then, of course, in the comfortable cabins of the ships, were taken to the same Brazil, where comfortable villages and joyful work on plantations and mines were waiting for them. The locals were loafers, did not want to work, either resisted or went further into the jungle from their own happiness. I had to change to blacks.
    1. VLR
      2 August 2022 10: 06
      +7
      Do not confuse the era of the slave trade and the time of Salazar. Under Salazar, they were just trying to develop Angola. As for cruelty in Africa, even the British called the French "stupid racists", but everyone was outdone by the "plush" Belgians, led by King Leopold II, who was given 24 monuments and a bust in Belgium. And 2 more - in France: apparently, even they were impressed by the "exploits" of this cannibal king.
      And the Spaniards and Portuguese were never particularly cruel in the colonies.
      1. kor1vet1974
        kor1vet1974 2 August 2022 11: 17
        +3
        Do not confuse the era of the slave trade and the time of Salazar.
        And why did the Portuguese end up in Angola? Well, they walked past themselves .. Apparently, the Portuguese king received complaints from the locals, they offend, their leaders, they say, intercede? And the good Portuguese with a noble purpose went to Angola and the Angolans showered them with gold, slaves .. They refused, but they had to take it, and then decided to stay. , roads to make life easier for the natives, "electricity", lollipops and beads, of course. And the natives began to rage with fat. By the way, it was not only the Portuguese and other colonialists who did this. Oh, this is a heavy burden for a white man to take care of other peoples. laughing For the white man is "human", and the rest are "not human".
        1. VLR
          2 August 2022 11: 23
          +4
          Again, you stubbornly push through the centuries, although we are talking about the 20th century. And personally a native of the remote Portuguese province of Salazar, like his parents and grandfathers on both sides) had nothing to do with the slave trade of the 15th and other centuries.
          And, yes, the Portuguese were not racists - unlike the British, French, Belgians, Americans, who were afraid to touch a black man back in the middle of the 20th century. In Portugal, they did not make any difference in skin color - only in terms of financial situation. If a liberated Negro or a mulatto in Brazil became a wealthy person - and such things happened, he was "accepted into society."
          1. kor1vet1974
            kor1vet1974 2 August 2022 11: 42
            -1
            So why did the Portuguese end up in Angola? Teaching Angolans Portuguese? And spread the Christian doctrine? Just? Yes, tears of tenderness flow from how, from your words, the Portuguese tried for the sake of the locals, almost laid down their lives, and the Angolans are not so grateful and the Indians too .. well, just savages, no culture. And at the expense of Salazar, let's erect a monument to him in Russia, like Njie in Armavir, thank God they removed it .. True, they instructed throughout Armenia.
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              Edward Vashchenko 2 August 2022 16: 27
              +2
              I'm not Negoro! I am Captain Sebastian Pereira! Merchant, ebony dealer
      2. Luminman
        Luminman 2 August 2022 11: 25
        0
        even the British called the French "stupid racists"

        The French have never been racists. Merchants and robbers, like the Dutch - you give us gold, and we give you glass beads. But the British have erected racism into a scientific basis! One "white man's burden" is worth something...
        1. VLR
          2 August 2022 11: 36
          +7
          What else was it called! The British are classic "racists", but even their antics outraged the French. During the 2nd World War, the British officers of the Indian units wrote indignantly that the French were insulting and humiliating their subordinates - their allies. Not even blacks - but Indians. And in their reports, phrases like "stupid racists" just appeared.
          Here are the English soldiers in Africa:


          These are the French in Africa:


          And these are the African subjects of the Belgian King Leopold 2:

          1. hohol95
            hohol95 3 August 2022 21: 24
            +2
            "The last "temporary exhibition" with blacks was in 1958 in Brussels at the Expo, where the Belgians presented the "Congolese village along with the inhabitants."
            WikiWiki...
            Year 1958
  15. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 August 2022 10: 19
    +4
    _And the time in Portugal was fun: after the victory of the revolution in 1910, it was considered quite normal to “shoot” portraits of Portuguese kings, but there was a special chic in breaking some monument or statue. Vandals are always and everywhere the same - both in Portugal at the beginning of the XNUMXth century and in modern Ukraine._
    "... the picture can easily be expanded: "And the time in Portugal was fun: after the victory of the revolution in 1910. The government, despite the disastrous economic situation, took over the Catholic Church. The religious orders of Portugal were expelled and their property confiscated. Five days after the proclamation of the republic, the new government decided to ban all monasteries and religious orders, even the Jesuits. The monks were dispersed and their property confiscated. . A law was passed legalizing divorce, and then laws were passed recognizing the legality of children born out of wedlock, allowing cremation, secularizing cemeteries, forbidding religious instruction in schools, and forbidding the wearing of the cassock. subjected to certain restrictions, and the public celebration of religious holidays was prohibited. The government also interfered in the work of seminaries, reserving the right to appoint professors and determine curricula. The culmination of this whole series of laws, authored by Afonso Costa, was the law on the separation of church and state, adopted on April 20, 1911. "The whole process was accompanied by violence, murders and robberies. Pope Pius X even issued the encyclical Iamdudum condemning crimes against the church in Portugal. Vandals are the same everywhere - in Portugal at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, and in Russia at the beginning of the XNUMXth century.
    1. kor1vet1974
      kor1vet1974 2 August 2022 12: 10
      +3
      Vandals are everywhere and always the same - both in Portugal at the beginning of the XNUMXth century and in modern Ukraine.
      In the Baltic States, Transcaucasia, Central Asia, the list goes on ..
    2. VLR
      2 August 2022 14: 27
      +4
      Well, whoever did not like to break churches and monasteries. And French revolutionaries, Protestants all over Europe. Some suspicious unanimity. Apparently, got all the priests very much. How is it with Blok: "Why are the ancient cathedrals full of holes? - Because for a hundred years the obese priest here, hiccuping, took bribes and sold vodka."
    3. Kronos
      Kronos 2 August 2022 22: 24
      0
      Everything was done right by the churchmen.
    4. hohol95
      hohol95 3 August 2022 21: 21
      +3
      In Russia, vandals are still present in the 21st century ...
      Either piss into the eternal flames or dance on the grave of the fallen in the NWO! Pod0nki...
      1. VLR
        3 August 2022 23: 06
        +1
        There are idiots everywhere. Worse, when at the state level.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 3 August 2022 23: 52
          0
          You are absolutely right.
          The mayor of Riga "announced" - the monument to the Liberators has no cultural value and will be destroyed at 100%!
  16. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 2 August 2022 10: 26
    +1
    Salazar is a fascist in the image of Mussolini. He left the country the poorest and most backward in Europe, despite the colonies. Four years after his death, only the revolution finally put the country on a better path.
    1. kor1vet1974
      kor1vet1974 2 August 2022 12: 03
      +3
      Do you think you heard?
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 2 August 2022 18: 28
        +4

        I've heard! External debt solves all economic problems.
  17. House 25 Sq. 380
    House 25 Sq. 380 2 August 2022 10: 34
    +3
    I would like to note some strange trend that has emerged at the VO for the "rehabilitation" of various dictatorial regimes ....
    That Franco, now - Salazar ....
    One "received" a destroyed country (which he himself, however, destroyed), the other - they say, did not particularly touch anyone, what kind of "dictator" is he?
    Many people forget that a soft regime at home could mean nothing in the colonies that were under the control of European countries....
    And while, for example, Belgium enjoyed the fruits of parliamentarism and democracy, the Belgian Congo "enjoyed" the actual slave trade, the killing of hostages, kidnapping, working in stocks and chopping off limbs ....
    What was it like in the Salazar era?
    I will quote a paragraph from a material previously published on VO:
    In Angola, Neto opened a private clinic where most patients received medical services free of charge or at very little cost. In 1960, he was arrested again, and during the arrest of Neto, the Portuguese police killed more than thirty patients of the clinic who tried to protect their head physician

    Или:
    After the cotton plantation workers in Baixa de Cassange (Malange) went on strike on January 3, 1961, and demanded higher wages and better working conditions, mass unrest broke out. The workers burned their passports and attacked the Portuguese merchants, for which the Portuguese aircraft bombed several villages in the area. Several hundred to several thousand Africans died.

    And so - yes, a vegetarian dictator ....
    1. kor1vet1974
      kor1vet1974 2 August 2022 11: 43
      +6
      And so - yes, a vegetarian dictator ....
      And almost not a fascist .. laughing
  18. vladcub
    vladcub 2 August 2022 10: 50
    +1
    Comrades, I will still re-read Salazar in order to better perceive. In the meantime, I would like to express a few opinions.
    1) "that in the middle of the 19th century" in the Republic of Ingushetia, almost at the same time, they invented 100 and 1 reason not to build a F / "D". Probably, this was a common fad
    2) "against everything that weakens the divide, relaxes the family," and he did the right thing.
    The last thing when loved ones start hiding from each other
  19. Luminman
    Luminman 2 August 2022 11: 18
    +1
    Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
    I would like to note some strange trend that has emerged at the VO for the "rehabilitation" of various dictatorial regimes

    You're just trying to look through today's eyes at that time. And at that time, how many truly democratic countries were there? England and USA. Well, with a bit of a stretch, France can be attributed to them. Well, if you still "stretch", then Czechoslovakia and Sweden ...

    Let's go from West to East. In Portugal - Salazar, Spain was ruled by Franco, in Germany - by Hitler, Italy is known for the activities of Mussolini. Horthy "ruled" Hungary, and Romania - Antonescu. There are some petty dictators in the limitrophe Baltics, and I don’t want to spend time describing them. Well, in Moscow, you yourself know who was imprisoned ...
    1. VLR
      2 August 2022 11: 51
      +4
      Well, in Moscow, you know who was sitting.

      Stalin became "you know who" on May 6, 1941, as chairman of the government. Until then, he was a "minister without a portfolio" - a general secretary, he had authority, but not authoritarian power. All decisions in the Politburo were made collectively, Stalin was often in the minority - and subject to party discipline! (the minutes of the meeting have been preserved). And only because on the eve of the war Stalin became "you know who", the USSR won this war.
      1. Luminman
        Luminman 2 August 2022 11: 54
        +1
        on the eve of the war, Stalin became "you know who", the USSR won this war

        This is known to me...
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 4 August 2022 22: 48
        0
        Nevertheless, Stalin enjoyed much more influence in the 20s compared to Rykov, and in the 30s compared to Molotov. Both Rykov and Molotov headed the Council of People's Commissars. On the other hand, even after Stalin's appointment of the Council of People's Commissars, the most important issues were still considered by the Politburo, since it was not numerous in composition. There was also the Orgburo of the Central Committee, which is also an influential body. The most influential leaders of the party and state were both members of the Politburo and the Orgburo.
  20. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 2 August 2022 11: 20
    +3
    Very informative ... a good policy under the slogan Everything for the development of the country ... you can’t look at the methods in the context of the era (it’s stupid to argue without this) he acted quite adequately to the circumstances
  21. ee2100
    ee2100 2 August 2022 12: 13
    +6

    And that was also
  22. vladcub
    vladcub 2 August 2022 12: 14
    +3
    Valery, thank you Salazar. So I was worried about what you should do and I want to "throw" a job: continue the cycle - Franco, Salazar, Horthy, Antonescu, Bokas, Chiang Kai-shek. These were not ordinary personalities and left a noticeable mark in their history.
    PS. Perhaps it would be interesting to talk about different "fronts" or organizations like: UNITA and prchh, how they and, chtl
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 3 August 2022 13: 05
      +1
      good
      Pol Pot, Samosa, Park Chung Hee...
      FRILIMO, ETA, IRA...
  23. VLR
    2 August 2022 14: 43
    +4
    Quote: kor1vet1974

    The rebel detachments were divided into supposedly socialist (MPLA party)
    ... And why supposedly? The MPLA was like that. He advocated development according to the "social camp" model, relying on the Mbundu peoples, as well as mulattos.


    African socialism is so specific. What the American pilot of Cuban origin Ponsoa wrote about:
    "When I think of those African cannibals we fought in the Congo - those commanded by Che (Guevara), the 'mighty Tatu'... oh my God!"
    He's referring to the juvenile cannibal squads in the Congo.
    Che Guevara, by the way, remained dissatisfied with the fighting qualities of the "African socialist fighters". If something had to be done
    impudently they said: we are not trucks and not Cubans to work. And they scattered at the first shots in their direction.
    1. know
      know 2 August 2022 19: 04
      +3
      Regarding the Congolese cannibals, I recalled the parody of "New Russian attendants":
      "Spiderman walked under the red banner" ....
      who "fought as best he could - he ate fifty damned whites"
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 3 August 2022 09: 20
      +1
      "And let the iron saw work!
      Not for work, my mother gave birth to me!
      This life principle is only growing in popularity around the world.
  24. VLR
    2 August 2022 21: 27
    +2
    By the way, Stalin, having organized a large-scale strike in the oil fields of Baku, achieved the creation of a conciliation commission, which began to resolve all controversial issues. That is, he did exactly what Salazar did in his "New State". Lenin, by the way, when he found out, was very dissatisfied - he did not want an improvement in the condition of the workers, but a confrontation that would bring the revolution closer.
  25. hohol95
    hohol95 3 August 2022 09: 14
    +2
    Not two "political opponents", but three fought in Angola:
    "The National Front for the Liberation of Angola, FNLA (port. Frente Nacional de Libertação de Angola, FNLA) is an Angolan military-political organization, since 1992 a right-wing political party."
    Due to a split in the FNLA, UNITA was formed in 1966:
    "The National Union for the Complete Independence of Angola, UNITA (port. União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola, UNITA) is an Angolan political party created on the basis of an armed rebel group."
    And of course the third "player" was the MPLA:
    "People's Movement for the Liberation of Angola - Labor Party (port. Movimento Popular de Libertação de Angola - Partido do Trabalho, MPLA, MPLA) is the political party of Angola, which has ruled the country since its independence in 1975. The MPLA relied on the cultural strata of the urban population The MPLA fought against Portugal in the War of Independence and against the UNITA and FNLA parties in the civil war from 1975 to 2002. Initially supported by the USSR."
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 3 August 2022 19: 02
      0
      Alexey "Ukrainian" thank you reminded me of my youth.
      My classmate served in UNITA, before being drafted, he was a mechanic and ended up in a unit where army trucks were tested. The guys were humorous and the official name was changed to UNITA
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 3 August 2022 21: 17
        +1
        I have never been to the territory of "non-deposited lands"!
        And, how was that "UNITA" translated, where did your classmate serve?
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 6 August 2022 19: 29
          +1
          LEXEI "Ukrainian" I was afraid of the moderators, it is not known which foot I got up on?
          A HZ.
          He has a tattoo on his wrist: "shishiga" and an inscription.
          He explained: the guys were humorous
  26. Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 4 August 2022 22: 34
    0
    The Hungarian regent Horthy mentioned here can be called a dictator with a big reservation. Rather, a semi-dictator, or a leader of an authoritarian type. But he did not have full power. Albeit in a truncated form, elements of parliamentarism and a multi-party system were preserved in interwar Hungary.
  27. Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 4 August 2022 22: 41
    0
    In 2015, Ilya Polonsky's material was published on VO. I recommend reading it too. Especially the section on the concept of loose-tropicalism.
  28. aslanxnumx
    aslanxnumx 6 August 2022 09: 24
    -1
    Good country Portugal, living there is not bad, the people are friendly. Putin threatened that, according to the life equation, we would catch up with Portugal in 20 years. We caught up, built a bridge 500 meters longer.
  29. EvilLion
    EvilLion 8 August 2022 16: 04
    0
    At the beginning of the 60th century, XNUMX% of the population was employed in agriculture, but the development of latifundia led to the ruin of many peasants. They could not get a job in urban factories, as in other countries, due to the lack of a sufficient number of industrial enterprises.


    In fact, in the Russian Empire at the time of the VOSR there were 85% of the peasants. Well, yes, if it weren’t for the revolution, then as soon as tractors began to arrive in Russia, millions of peasants would simply fly out of the landowners’ farms, but they didn’t have Brazil to flee, only cold Siberia, where they didn’t want to. But how would the question, who was more backward then?

    Severe budgetary discipline and an uncompromising fight against corruption and embezzlement proved to be very effective means of improving the economy.


    Those who try to do this are killed quickly. What opportunities did the professor have to avoid this?

    Entrepreneurs and workers were united in a corporation in Portugal, according to Salazar's plan, they had to jointly resolve all disputes “like a family”


    "Does it seem difficult to paint a more gratifying picture, General?"

    At the same time, Salazar refused to accept German marks as payment.


    Well, he would have come with them in the 45th to the exchange office, hehe.

    representatives of the Bakongo people (UPA party, then UNITA).


    What-what party? What nationality?

    And what exactly did Salazar's dictatorship manifest itself in? Someone was banned there, so it was banned everywhere. His opponents were definitely not angels, just like Stalin's opponents.
    Although one can argue about merit, all the same, Portugal was lucky to be outside the fronts of WWII, like Sweden, and after WWII, Finland fattened away from the confrontation between the USSR and NATO. It didn't take much genius.