Military Review

Oleg Nemensky: The Orthodox Church openly raises the question of the reunification of the divided Russian people

126
Oleg Nemensky: The Orthodox Church openly raises the question of the reunification of the divided Russian peopleThe initiative of Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin to collect signatures under the "Charter for the reunification of the people of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus" caused a lot of criticism for its alleged unfounded, lack of prospects for a specific application of its results. Yes, probably, it may even seem defiantly naive, because it is clear to anyone that even millions of signatures will not override geopolitical maps and the interests of elites will not change. However, it still seems that the actual role of this action can be quite significant. The Charter open for signatures, subject to its wide public presentation, may well influence the state of affairs in the existing plans for post-Soviet integration.

It is clear that the church initiative is designed to complement the integration steps that Russia is now taking at the state level. What official Russia offers in this regard is fundamentally (and consciously) devoid of any value, identity and ideological components - only economic pragmatism. And, probably, this is correct, reasonably based on the political realities of the CIS. However, the integration project must necessarily have its own identical basis, otherwise it is more likely only cooperation, but not integration. And in these conditions, it is the church that can take responsibility for filling the integration processes. historical, value content. But there is one significant nuance: unlike official Russian projects, the Charter’s integration concept does not imply the unification of different peoples and does not threaten the entire post-Soviet space. It is open to those who wish to join it, but the principle has been set in advance - we are talking about the reunion of one people. And this is its fundamental difference. In fact, an alternative integration model can be seen behind this.

Actually, the integration project of the Charter is no longer post-Soviet, as all the other projects are to one degree or another. It involves integration on other grounds. In the text of the Charter, there is not a word about the space of the former USSR as about any desired integrity, nor about the East Slavic peoples, who for some reason need to stick together. On the contrary, it speaks of the reunification of one people. And this is a very important point, radically separating the concept of reunification, according to this Charter, from the Soviet model of three fraternal peoples, still retaining its ideological force and in fact working only for the division of the common Russian space. Perhaps, for the first time, an integration concept was proclaimed at a large social level, which affirms the all-Russian unity and is based on the demand for the reunification of one people, and not the unification of several. Of course, except for previous statements like "we are all a single Soviet people."

The Charter for the Reunification of Our People de facto postulates for Russians the status of a divided nation, indicating its political fragmentation, equally describing the Russian Federation, Ukraine and Belarus as "the state of our people." However, she refers to the rule of the constitutions of all three states, according to which it is the people who are the source of power. For big politics, this wording is still almost not permissible, except in private articles and statements, as well as in rare statements by the President of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko. The reunification of the Russian states - so far there is no such topic in Russian political discourse.

But it is noteworthy that this nation is not indicated in any way in the Charter; it is, as it were, a people without a clear identity. And the country is not named. In my opinion, this is the only weak point in its text. It is clear that it is difficult to call it Russian (all-Russian) for reasons of post-Soviet political correctness and real domination of anti-Russian models in the public consciousness, but it was still possible to pronounce the word "Rus" - people of very different views in all three states perceive it quite normally. The reunification of Russia - this formula should not only be implied, it should have been voiced.

It is very good that this initiative comes from the church. The Russian Orthodox Church is the only legal institution of our society that officially considers itself Russian (and precisely all-Russian) and has an all-Russian, now cross-border territory of its activities. The Russian church keeps the image of united Russia, preserves its identity. Therefore, it is up to her to raise the issue of reuniting the common space, gathering people.

And yes, it is unlikely that this initiative can be successful in itself. Such initiatives will require a lot more. It is no coincidence that, from a formal point of view, it is difficult to call it an initiative of the highest ecclesiastical leadership — so far it is rather a private action. Obviously, the steps of a higher and more official level, we will see later. However, it will in any case have its positive effect. It is important for Orthodox Russian people to see that the church is concerned about the reunification of the Russian land. In addition, it awakens social thought, again brings the topic of an all-Russian view to the forefront of the information field. Only in this way can we break the lingering dominance of the old (Soviet) and frankly Russophobic norms of political correctness in this matter.

This also lays a completely different form of Russian statehood compared to the dominant one: there is no longer any talk about ethnic federalism that we are used to, which, creating a regional ethnocracy, inevitably leads to new separatist conflicts and political disintegration. On the contrary, the Charter indicates the norm of our constitutions about a single people as the bearer of state power. Behind this is a model of national statehood, Russian political self-determination. Like the belief in his will for reunification and government activities.

A broad public presentation of the new logic of integration is of great importance and will undoubtedly influence the moods both in society and in political elites. After all, the most important problem of all plans for post-Soviet integration is that it is impossible to unite on old bases. It is simply pointless - the Soviet Union did not collapse accidentally, it worked in his device social and political mechanisms that operated in that direction. The forms of the post-Soviet states do not imply a single people in the Russian land, on the contrary, they reflect ideologies that divide this land. And the simple reunification of the three states in the new union will not be the reunification of one people. Rather, on the contrary, separatist ideologies will spur development.

Unfortunately, it is too early for us to unite, as there is still no new (and at the same time more historical) ideology of association, which would be widely known and recognized by the people. It can be subtracted in a number of texts of modern thinkers, but it is not in the public consciousness, it is not in official statements. But the initiative of the Charter is important precisely because it implies a new step in its formation and public presentation. The step is all the more significant because it is sanctified by the authority of the Russian Church.
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126 comments
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  1. kasper
    kasper 15 October 2012 11: 59
    +18
    We need to unite in one powerful state!
    Together we are stronger!
  2. gojesi
    gojesi 15 October 2012 12: 01
    -22
    there is nothing wrong with reunification, I am only "FOR", but not under the auspices of Orthodoxy! Murderers, liars and compilers originally. Can't reunite on a rotten foundation !!!
    I understand that I just demoted myself to a lieutenant, but, as they say, “Plato is my friend, but Truth is dearer!”
    1. strannik595
      strannik595 15 October 2012 12: 07
      +12
      murderers from Orthodoxy by name, please .... starting from Anthony and Theodosius of Kiev Pechersk
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 13: 07
        +5
        Quote: strannik595

        killers from Orthodoxy by name, please ..

        But who do you ask, this is one of those who starts to feel sick when they pass by the church. Bzezhinsky, like this one, sees one school.
        1. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 19
          -6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov

          But who do you ask, this is one of those who starts to feel sick when they pass by the church

          The true truth! Sick !!! You would know that I, and you would feel sick :)
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 23
            +3
            Quote: gojesi
            The true truth!

            There is no truth in you not truth !!!
            Quote: gojesi
            You would know that I, and you would feel sick :)

            I know enough and I understand quite well that you didn’t acquire knowledge hi
            1. Ribwort
              Ribwort 15 October 2012 17: 02
              +7
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              There is no truth in you not truth !!!

              It seems to me that the speech is somewhat about different things: There is a Church, there is Faith and Orthodoxy. But there are ministers of the church, people in general are the same as we are with our own strengths and weaknesses. This is just as there is justice and there are judges who often have nothing to do with this very justice. But no one would ever think for this reason to object to justice? Rather, against specific individuals. So it is in the church. There are ministers who discredit the Church, but what does Faith have to do with it? Worthy people are everywhere. However, like creatures ...
              1. GG2012
                GG2012 15 October 2012 18: 21
                -1
                Quote: Ribwort
                It is just as there is justice and there are judges

                With this phrase, you, as a bishop, have turned off the sacred function of the Church.
                And without her, Priests are artisans from verbiage.
                The ROC is an organization for the provision of "spiritual" services to the unenlightened population: baptism, funeral service, blessing, ...

                You see how everything just fell into place when dotting the "i".
                1. Khabarov
                  Khabarov 15 October 2012 21: 32
                  0
                  But I wonder why everything is, let’s say so. organizations that provide services for money issue a cash register and a sales receipt, but I have not seen a single cash register in the church. Although the price list in one, the village church hung on the wall. It is written how much it costs to be baptized, how much to get married And the funeral service was also appreciated. It turns out that the church does not need us, but our money? And if so, then the priests should issue checks.
                  1. GG2012
                    GG2012 15 October 2012 22: 16
                    -2
                    Quote: Khabarov
                    And if so, then the priests should issue checks.

                    I inform you that the church is exempt from taxes. And even as a public organization, tax officials check it very reluctantly.
              2. Bashkaus
                Bashkaus 15 October 2012 18: 58
                +3
                And I will tell you more, an unscrupulous priest before God will answer for himself and for his flock. If he seduces believers who come to him with his licentiousness, then this will not be considered a sin for believers. And moreover, if God wants to reason with a person, he will hammer into the head of the bzhizik himself to call gojesi and say, you know how not to twist, but God is, so go to the Orthodox church (and it doesn’t matter that the next morning the bhizik will grab the patient head and say, I knit a thump, the main thing is that gojesi will come to the service in the morning). In the Bible such cases are described.
                And just the Holy Spirit descended from God to the 12 apostles, and the apostles, through the rite of ordination, have passed it to the priests to this day. And it doesn’t matter whether a bad priest or a good one, even if he thumps and walks about whores, will give an answer to God for his own, but he has the right to forgive sins, it is given by God, here he is only an instrument in his hands.
                1. GG2012
                  GG2012 15 October 2012 19: 52
                  -2
                  Quote: Bashkaus
                  and the apostles, through the rite of ordination, pass it to the priests to this day.

                  What do pedophiles in a cassock also transmit this Spirit ?! Rotten Spirit turns out, if you look at the statistics ...

                  And why did you get that they answer to God?
                  History proves that no one answers to him? Every priest strives to live his life "cool", More parish, and that the chorus girls were boobs, or the boy servants had elastic ass, that the car was a Mercedes, that the cross was gold per kilogram, and so on.
                  1. Bashkaus
                    Bashkaus 15 October 2012 20: 47
                    +1
                    At least you can name one Orthodox priest who is involved in pedophilia? Catholics whose only name is not from Christianity.
                    We do not speak about Protestants who are protesting against something. I just do not understand what you can protest against if you are with God?
                    In fact, everyone will answer before God, you, me and the pope.
                    "History proves" is a trite truism on your part. Facts please, desserts, scientific articles, etc.
                    1. GG2012
                      GG2012 15 October 2012 20: 52
                      -1
                      Quote: Bashkaus
                      At least one Orthodox priest involved in pedophilia n

                      Come here, you are our ignorant: http://gusaram.narod.ru/mrak_pop_pedofil.html
            2. hypnosis
              hypnosis 20 October 2012 17: 27
              0
              According to the rules of Russian spelling, you need so

              There is no truth in you not truth !!!
              ------------------------------------------------------------
              There is neither truth nor truth in you


              I know enough and I understand quite well that you didn’t acquire knowledge
              -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
              -------------------------------
              I know enough and I EXCELLENTLY understand that you haven’t gained knowledge because of your brain


              Final assessment: glory C grade, further acquisition of knowledge is imperative
          2. v53993
            v53993 15 October 2012 23: 09
            0
            It would be more modest.
            Like Aesop says: "I know I don't know anything, and you don't even know that."
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 15 October 2012 13: 10
        -13
        Killers from the Russian Orthodox Church? yes please, pop Gapon, for example, the names of any scum that collaborated with the Nazis, frankly, even looking for reluctance, it is a pity.
        http://demotivation.me/bnifc85jtrlqpic.html
        Yes, even the modern Russian Orthodox Church with the sale of cigarettes and alcohol, is it not suitable for the role of killers?
        1. GG2012
          GG2012 15 October 2012 13: 34
          -1
          Quote: S_mirnov
          Yes please

          Have you forgotten "Patriarch" Nikon the Bloody?
          What is the use of baptizing with two or three fingers, and how many people were destroyed by the "church", how many were exiled to Siberia, and how many Old Believers left for the Urals.
          And what for? For the fact that the urine hit the head of the "holy" ?!
          1. gojesi
            gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 20
            -1
            Quote: GG2012
            What is the use of crossing two or three fingers, and how many people were destroyed by the "church"

            Yes!!! Then the "Church of Christ" drank Russian blood !!! Full jaw !!!
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 14
              -3
              "filthy" LIAR!
              "filthy" - non-Christ, pagan, - Russian folk definition
              1. GG2012
                GG2012 15 October 2012 18: 22
                +3
                Quote: Yoshkin Cat
                "filthy" LIAR!

                The cat started diarrhea, and he also set the fan. Save who can !!!
                laughing
                1. Yoshkin Kot
                  Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 20: 12
                  -1
                  Are you so interested? are you a cesspool man
              2. Fox 070
                Fox 070 15 October 2012 18: 26
                -1
                Quote: Yoshkin Cat
                "filthy" LIAR!

                How late you are! Hurry up !!!
                1. GG2012
                  GG2012 15 October 2012 22: 21
                  0
                  Quote: Fox 070
                  How late you are! Hurry up !!!

                  Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  good good good
          2. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 13
            +2
            sick? in Russia the Church could not execute the laity! (like all Orthodox churches) and they burned themselves as rules, while refusing to incur duties, such as paying taxes and military service! so that the first to be considered were those who mowed from the army
            1. scrabler
              scrabler 16 October 2012 14: 14
              +2
              What kind of word is this "duty"? This is not a duty, but a duty of every person. The only pity is that now they treat this as a duty. A person is not to blame for the fact that he was born and lives, but that he should - this is undoubtedly. However, I often come across the fact that many believe that they do not owe anything to anyone and in general the state is on their side, forgetting that it is thanks to the state that he lives in his homeland, which no one has captured, it is thanks to the state that there are some roads, dirt is removed, snow on the streets and so on. Of course, we can say that the state is doing its job badly, but this is the case not only in officials and other "diseases" of the problem. There are also problems in society, someone squeezed their million from the tax, someone got used to shit on the street regularly. Even the fact that he avoided serving in the army can be put on this list. Suddenly, the recruit, from communicating with military equipment, has the talents to wake up a great gunsmith, as has been repeatedly in history. smile Well, this is me, on the topic of whether there is a duty or whether the aforesaid is the duty of everyone, but I don’t argue with the historical term wink
        2. andrey777
          andrey777 15 October 2012 14: 32
          +8
          The Church is not scolded. They were among the Church, but they are not our essence.
          1. GG2012
            GG2012 15 October 2012 14: 47
            -7
            Quote: andrey777
            The Church is not scolded. They were among the Church, but they are not our essence.

            What was that? They themselves understood what they said.
            From a legal point of view, this formula contains signs of insanity.
            This is when for a perfect crime, a person cannot be judged because he is insane.

            From rotten wood and rotten fruits.
            1. andrey777
              andrey777 15 October 2012 15: 01
              +6
              The Church is not mocked! And the gates of hell will not prevail against her! The Lord - Savior Himself with his purest lips uttered: "And many will come and say: here is Christ ... we have Christ ... Do not believe! - for there is no Me among them!", And He also said: "The time will come, when false teachings proliferate, false churches - and pervert everything that I teach you, and deceive many ... "! And in the "Revelation" of the Holy Apostle John the Theologian it is said: "And many will appear before the Lord, and will say to Him: it was not in your name that they cast out demons, healed diseases, performed many miracles? And God will answer them: GET AWAY FROM ME, FOR I DO NOT KNOW YOU. !!! ". Who is this about? Yes, just about such schismatics, false priests, false bishops, sectarians, deceivers and speculators in the Holy Name! Whose path is not to the Kingdom of God, but to fiery hell, where "weeping and gnashing of teeth, to the father of abomination and lies - Satan, and to his servants and his children - demons!"
              1. GG2012
                GG2012 15 October 2012 15: 07
                -7
                Quote: andrey777
                Whose path is not in the Kingdom of God, but in fiery hell,

                In short ... the clinic ...
                To you here: sektainfo.ru
                1. andrey777
                  andrey777 15 October 2012 16: 43
                  +1
                  And you, my friend Russophobe, and a very big hater of the church.
                  1. GG2012
                    GG2012 15 October 2012 18: 27
                    0
                    Quote: andrey777

                    And you, my friend Russophobe, and a very big hater of the church.

                    And I, Father Fedor, a sincere Slavophile, anti-Zionist, a friend of all enlightened Jews, a supporter of the unification of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, and in general I support the great Russian empire!
                    I don’t hate the Church, but I won’t let them impose a Jewish ideology.
                    Religion - Separate from the State! And the point!
                    1. Bashkaus
                      Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 18
                      +2
                      GG2012 Tell me, how can Orthodoxy be a "Jewish" religion?

                      If:

                      Matthew chapter 19 verse 28

                      "But Jesus said to them: Truly I say to you that you who followed Me - in the priesthood, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you will also sit on twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel."

                      + More or less modern Judaism was born at least 100 years after the events described and the birth of Christianity.
                      1. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 15 October 2012 19: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Bashkaus
                        more or less modern Judaism arose at least 100 years after the events described and the birth of Christianity.

                        Sergey, welcome! Here, in my opinion, you grabbed too much. Judaism appeared long before the birth of Christ, even at the time of the well-known forty-year-long camping trip of Moses & CO through the desert. And Christianity (as well as Islam) is derived from this teaching. I don’t want to engage in a polemic about Judaism, even in a wedding ceremony without Judaism in any way. I will give only a few lines:

                        God bless these young ones, as he once blessed Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and his 12 sons, Joseph and Asenath, Moses and Sapphora, Joachim and Anna (parents of the Virgin Mary), Zechariah and Elizabeth ... Save them, as Noah once kept in the ark, to Jonah in the womb of the whale, three Jewish youths in the Babylonian furnace


                        http://energodar.net/black/hristianstvo/venchanie.html

                        We give strength to those gods in whom we believe.
                        Of hosts, etc. -The God of the Jews, worshiping him, we give him power over us.
                        If you agree with this, then personally I do not agree
                      2. Bashkaus
                        Bashkaus 15 October 2012 21: 14
                        +5
                        All right! Do not confuse Old Testament Judaism and Judaism. The New Testament was compiled in the 1st century AD. At the same time, disagreements between Christians and Jews reached their peak, after which, by the 2nd century CE, with the advent of the Talmud, Judaism was formed in its modern form. Apparently the Jews finally realized just what happened and what they did crucified Christ decided to release their version of events.
                      3. vlad_pr
                        vlad_pr 16 October 2012 05: 16
                        +2
                        + I absolutely agree with you. After all, if you look carefully, then all the so-called holy scripture is fictitious adventures of the Semitic-Hamitic tribes and their prophets. Moreover, jerking from the written and oral sources of other peoples. Fraser wrote about this very well (I don’t remember the name, I have not re-read it for a long time), among other things, a doctor of theology. Also in sufficient detail by Zenon Kosidovsky, outlining factual and historical material. I also note that during the funeral service, almost through the word, the mention of the king of Israel.
                        Sincerely.
                    2. Ribwort
                      Ribwort 16 October 2012 12: 48
                      +1
                      Quote: GG2012
                      Religion - Separate from the State! And the point!

                      But I think this is absolutely correct !!! Faith should not be imposed from the outside, as they are now trying to instill this in children in schools, introducing the subject "Fundamentals of Orthodoxy." On September 40, the priest comes regularly ... Maybe there is nothing wrong with that, but: There is a temple of the soul, and there is a temple of science, knowledge. And then there is the state and politics. So you don't need to mix everything in a heap. As they say: flies - separately, cutlets - separately. Why do I think so: I consider myself, rather, to be atheists, although sometimes there is a need to believe in something (maybe in some kind of higher justice?), But I confess, it is not very pleasant for me when I am intrusive, like advertising on TV, urge to believe in something. Let me come to this myself. Maybe 50-XNUMX years old, maybe never ... but myself !!!
                  2. Bashkaus
                    Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 08
                    0
                    Andrey, stop throwing beads in front of the pigs! Cheer up your nerves, and in this case you will not be able to explain anything, read the Akathist to the Mother of God "The Seeking of the Lost" better, only Christian humility and falling on God will help.
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 21
              +2
              Quote: GG2012
              From rotten wood and rotten fruits

              Commendable self-criticism.
            3. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 15
              -3
              I’ve forgot to ask you! don't confuse green with wet
            4. Bashkaus
              Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 05
              +3
              What Andrei777 wanted to say is quite understandable. He himself is well aware of this and feels with his heart. Only you do not understand this.
              I’ll try to explain it with material terms.
              Have you ever put out a pioneer fire? And now, too weak to extinguish the sun? so, how much beer you don’t drink and how not to try, at best, shower your head, and then under two conditions: a good stream and a fair wind.
              So scolding the Church is the same as putting out the sun after urinating on it.
              1. GG2012
                GG2012 15 October 2012 20: 05
                0
                Quote: Bashkaus
                So scolding the Church is the same as putting out the sun after urinating on it.


                It is even possible that you carefully read the Bible texts, but you did not understand the main point. What is hidden behind these texts.
                The Jewish god did not give you this.
                Therefore, you are now training in reproduction.
                Strive to understand, not memorize.
                Ignorance is treated by reading and thinking.
                1. Bashkaus
                  Bashkaus 15 October 2012 20: 55
                  +3
                  Ha, interestingly, Christ crucified the Jews and the Russians are to blame as always)))
                  You see, there is just a difference between us, I really carefully read the New Testament many times, which I can not say about you. And if you talk about things that you don’t know, then I don’t have to talk to you. I’m just trying to uncover the meaning of the contexts that you tear out and interpret in your own way, trying to denigrate Orthodoxy. I wouldn’t want people who didn’t read the Bible and who didn’t know what it was about to draw their conclusions looking at you without listening to at least the opposite point of view
                  1. GG2012
                    GG2012 15 October 2012 22: 34
                    0
                    Quote: Bashkaus
                    And if you talk about things that you don’t know, then I don’t have to talk to you.

                    Oh how often I heard that !!!
                    But this always means one thing - you have run out of arguments and you do not have the strength to continue this conversation. And self-esteem does not allow to turn his tail between his legs, and then "Gesheftmakherovskie" expressions like yours come to the rescue.

                    Quote: Bashkaus
                    I would not want people who did not read the Bible and did not know what it was about

                    Do not judge Me by yourself.

                    The applied meaning of my comments, the desire to prevent the "Jewish slave ideology - Christianity" from becoming the dominant ideology in society.
                    Because if this happens, then the Catechism and the Bible will have to be taken in exams at all universities in the country.

                    The sticky lies of Christianity will become a common norm and the priests will become even thicker.
          2. gojesi
            gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 24
            0
            Quote: andrey777
            The Church is not scolded. They were among the Church, but they are not our essence.

            you have a good picture on your nickname ... So He understood when he said or asserted something ... It's also good for you to decide who you will be :) If "THEM" is to Israel :) To creatures and other slaves of God .. . They are waiting!
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 15 October 2012 15: 49
              -6
              Quote: gojesi
              To the creatures and other servants of God ... They are waiting!
              1. Ross
                Ross 15 October 2012 17: 01
                0
                Fox 070,
                gojesi,
                The trouble with many of our Christian believers is that they don’t know the history of the introduction of Christianity in Russia, they don’t know for what purpose it was done, and when this bright teaching of the Jewish Messiah, aimed at correcting the Jewish religion, turned to Christian Church LLC for non-Jews.
                In all Eastern civilizations and in Russia, our roots, ROD, genes, traditions have always been preserved. Here, in its roots, the people always draw their strength. And the forced imposition of an alien Greek faith broke this bond of our people. That is why the first 500 years of Christianity in Russia the Russian people fought for the Russian faith, and the great ascetics Sergius of Radonezh and others helped to Russify the new faith. That is why there was such resistance among the old Greek Church, which did not allow Russian princes to appoint their own Russian metropolitans. That is why some of our patriotic Old Believers did not accept the "reforms" of Nikon and Alexei Romanov.
                For example, how Ivan IV the Terrible fought with LLC Russian Orthodox Church:
                “... the treasury was almost empty. We looked around - who had the money in Russia? The money ended up in the“ modest ”and“ ascetic ”Christian Church and its richest monks in monasteries, who turned out to be the largest exploiters, merchants and usurers. And, despite the fact that the closest advisers of the tsar, in the Chosen Rada, were the priest Sylvester, Metropolitan Macarius, and Ivan the Terrible himself was a deeply believing Christian, but they decided to take the money from the churchmen. pay all taxes to the treasury.
                It was also forbidden, as a result of usury and bad debts, to enslave the nobles, turn the nobles into slaves, who were forced to work with their families for the rest of their lives in monasteries. And the possibility of enslaving the peasants in slaves remained. Although freedom of the peasants remained in the form of free choice of residence on St. George's Day.
                This, of course, could not please the churchmen, heated discussions and outrages began. In addition, the clergy knew that a radical law was already being prepared on the confiscation of vast land holdings from the Church.
                In 1551, Ivan the Terrible convened a Church Council, at which he invited church hierarchs to answer a hundred questions about the life of the Church that the Tsar himself formulated, and in many questions the tsar himself answered. Puzzled.
                Therefore, this church council was called Stoglavy. After some time, the Church Council gave the answers that were placed in the book “Stoglav”. The clergy agreed with almost all the proposals of Ivan the Terrible, except for the mercantile ones - they unitedly opposed the confiscation of land holdings, that is, they did not want to follow the example of Sergius of Radonezh and Neil Sorsky, they did not want a modest life, asceticism, self-sacrifice and live their own work, stubbornly positioned themselves as elite ruling rich estate.
                And so that the tsar would leave them possessions and riches, the clergy made significant concessions - they put things in order in their kingdom: they brought church rituals uniform, developed internal rules of conduct for themselves, for the clergy, and even (!) Agreed to recognize local Russian saints as all-Russian, before that, only foreign saints, mostly Byzantine, were in special veneration.
                Ivan the Terrible agreed to leave the “old” possessions to the Church, took away all the lands acquired by the Church in recent decades “on the sly” during the murky period of de facto boyar rule, and put under control the new transactions of the Church with the land - henceforth, without the “approval” of the tsar, the Church did not dare to acquire land - neither for debts, nor by means of purchase, nor by way of donation. Ivan the Terrible applied the method “between two evils” - the Church chose the lesser evil for itself. "
                1. Yoshkin Kot
                  Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 24
                  +2
                  N-dya, not tired of repeating nonsense? and? Do you like to use the term Rod? so you are a geek! betraying Faith to his ancestors! when was the last time you called your mom with a liquid grinder? crosses on the graves of their ancestors defiled? aah you have a kicked pebble set on top!
                  1. GG2012
                    GG2012 15 October 2012 20: 09
                    -1
                    Quote: Yoshkin Cat
                    when was the last time you called your mom with a liquid grinder? crosses on the graves of their ancestors defiled?

                    Phew! The cat again ate carrion! Kota is sick! Ambulance !!! Call the ambulance !!!
                2. GG2012
                  GG2012 15 October 2012 20: 07
                  +1
                  Quote: Ross
                  they didn’t want to follow the example of Sergius of Radonezh and Neil Sorsky, they didn’t want a modest life, asceticism, self-sacrifice and live your workpersistently positioned themselves as an elite ruling rich estate.

                  Here it is the essence of the Priesthood !!!
              2. Yoshkin Kot
                Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 21
                -1
                and now quote when God calls people slaves?
                you can't and shut your deceitful mouth
              3. Bashkaus
                Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 27
                -2
                Let's start with the fact that Adam enacted the law and was deservedly expelled from heaven having committed a sin.
                Further, for this misconduct, the entire human race was excommunicated from God and no longer belonged to it. God felt sorry for the dying people and he sent his son Jesus Christ, who with his blood atoned for the sin of all mankind since Adam.
                Therefore, our forgiveness of this sin is in the hands of Jesus, in fact we are his slaves and he has the right to forgive us our personal sin or not, and therefore must fulfill his will in order to atone for his guilt. If the slave conscientiously fulfills his work (fulfilling the law of God of the 10 commandments), God forgives him and makes him a free man. This is a pious Christian who already prays and asks not to be forgiven of sin, but asks to receive something from God. But if a Christian succeeds in virtues by being free, then at some point he begins to do good for others for the good itself, and not for his own sake. This is already called the son of man, in our country it is the saints who have the gifts to do miracles.
                These are, as it were, the basics of why believers call themselves slaves. But for us, who did not repent of their sins, it would be foolish to call ourselves sons of men, we all owe God that he atoned for our sins with his blood. We owe him.
                1. Fox 070
                  Fox 070 15 October 2012 19: 58
                  +2
                  Quote: Bashkaus
                  . God felt sorry for the dying people and he sent his son Jesus Christ, who with his blood atoned for the sin of all mankind since Adam.

                  In general, it was not about all of humanity, but about the "sons of Israel", mired in debauchery, and moreover, he warned his disciples against going north:
                  “The Gospel of Andrew,” begins: “And Andrei Ionin, his disciple, asked: Rabbi! What nations carry the good news of the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus answered him: Go to the nations of the east, to the nations of the west, and to the nations of the south, where the sons of the house of Israel live. Do not go to the Gentiles of the North, for they are sinless and do not know the vices and sins of the house of Israel ”(Gospel of Andrew, chap. 5, vv. 1-3).

                  That is, Jesus forbade going north. Not even just to the northern countries, but to the north of Israel.
                  In the Gospel of Matthew He said: “Do not enter the city of Samaria.” “Samaritans” are the Aryans themselves, that is, they live by their own laws. Nothing to do there.

                  1. And Andrei Ionin, His disciple, asked
                  Rabbi! what nations to bring the good news of the kingdom of heaven.

                  2.And Jesus answered him
                  Go to the nations of the east, to the nations
                  Western and to the southern peoples, to where the sons of the house of Israel live.

                  3 not to the Gentiles of the north
                  walk for sinless
                  they do not know the vices and sins of the house of Israel.

                  4. For when the Gentiles who do not have a law by nature do the lawful,
                  then without a law, they are their own law.

                  (Gospel of Andrew, chap. 5, vv. 1-4)
                2. GG2012
                  GG2012 15 October 2012 22: 43
                  +2
                  Quote: Bashkaus
                  our forgiveness of this sin is in the hands of Jesus, in fact we are his slaves and he has the right to forgive us our personal sin or not, and therefore must fulfill his will in order to atone for his guilt.

                  Rave!!! Wild nonsense! I have concerns for your health!
                  What medications are you taking?
            2. andrey777
              andrey777 15 October 2012 16: 49
              +3
              Incidentally, he, as you put it, studied at the seminary, raised the Russian people from ruins, won the war, with him the Patriarch reappeared in Russia, etc.
            3. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 20
              +1
              BTW BY THE LORD! PAY ATTENTION TO NICK --- GOYESI ---
              in Old Slavonic this is an appeal to those around him, that is, he calls us all goyim, I hope you understand now why he will not see the Russian People and the Pro-Orthodox Faith so fiercely? and gets almost sexual pleasure from the "exploits" of the executioners of the Russian people?
              1. Fox 070
                Fox 070 15 October 2012 18: 29
                +3
                Quote: Yoshkin Cat
                gets almost sexual pleasure

                Strange, do you still remember about sex?
              2. GG2012
                GG2012 15 October 2012 20: 12
                -1
                Quote: Yoshkin Cat
                gets almost sexual pleasure

                Cat take care of your eggs !!! And have fun !!!
      3. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 14
        0
        Quote: strannik595
        killers from Orthodoxy by name please

        then let’s go from the very beginning with Vovan Krasno-sun. Mother Jewish Polonyan Malusha or Malka. Papa is a Jewish rabbi, and this can be seen from the letter where the Russian princess Rogneda answers the matchmakers who came from Vladimsir: "... I will not go for RABICHICH ..." We are being told that "Rabichich" is the son of a slave, allegedly Malusha is a slave, so Rogneda and the nose turns up, but "rabichich" is in Russian the SON OF THE RABBIN. Forever with a reddish face from the sulitsa, my ironic ancestors called my "red-sun" ... During the "voluntary baptism" of Russia by the Jew Vladimir, according to various sources, from 2 to 12 million Russians died !!!
        Svyatoslav, since he didn’t have his free sons, on the secondary throne of Kiev, ADOPTED, then it was universally accepted among the princes, sent Vovan Kr-Sol ... to the Kiev table ... Well, that’s just the beginning, an introduction to topic ...
      4. cyberdamn
        cyberdamn 15 October 2012 16: 59
        0
        Vladimir, the baptist of Russia, for example. those who refused to accept the new faith were drowned, chopped, cut.
        1. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 24
          0
          an example in the studio? pi..ol!
          1. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 35
            +3
            Yoshkin Cat my limit to put you the pros has been exhausted!
            You know, brother, I’m standing next to you and until the last gasp I will defend our position in this case, common to the last minus! Rather, the buttons on the mouse and keyboard will fly over the supastat, than Orthodoxy will move)))
            God help.
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 15 October 2012 20: 18
              +1
              Quote: Bashkaus
              Rather, the buttons on the mouse and keyboard will fly over the supastat, than Orthodoxy will move)))

              Well, do the buttons on the keyboard lie fly away, but I want to enlighten you, what is Orthodoxy:
              ORTHODOXY (The Right of Glory) is an old Russian concept dating back several tens of thousands of years and takes its roots from the Ancient Vedic Russian National Religion, which described the world order using the concepts of “Reality” (material world), “Nav” (prototype world), “Right” (forming world) and “Glory” (creating world) - (four-level structure of world order) - at that time, Russian people praised “Right”, lived according to Truth and were called - ORTHODOX.

              Accordingly, ORTHODOXY in ancient Slavonic language means the magic action perfecting the forming world. Currently, the very concept of “Orthodoxy” has been perverted, and even an absurd phrase has appeared - “Christian Orthodoxy”, which is used in the sense of “Christian faith”, and means the same context as “Orthodox Islam,” “Orthodox Judaism,” but nothing not like Orthodox Islam and Orthodox Judaism!


              http://www.slavic-europe.eu/index.php/comments/17-russia-comments/9629-2011-05-1
              7-01

              Do not break your spears in vain. hi
        2. GG2012
          GG2012 15 October 2012 18: 30
          -2
          Quote: cyberdamn
          Vladimir, Baptist of Russia

          And this creature, Vladimir, raped his brother’s wife in front of her parents. And until the end of his life he was a pagan, made sacrifices, lived with two harems (Kiev, Chernigov).
          The filthy man was Prince Vladimir. Well, a pure Zionist!
          1. Fox 070
            Fox 070 15 October 2012 18: 44
            +1
            Quote: GG2012
            Well, a pure Zionist!

            So maternal Jew ( Malusha, the daughter of a rabbi) And what can be expected from such a ruler ??? Woe, fratricide (Prince Yaropolk and Prince Oleg), chaos, desolation, stench ... You can list all the troubles that came with him for a long time ...
          2. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 39
            +2
            How could he be a Zionist if he honored the Man Jesus Christ, who openly said that Jews would be punished and judged?
          3. mongoose
            mongoose 16 October 2012 07: 54
            -1
            did not try to be treated?
    2. Focuser
      Focuser 15 October 2012 12: 13
      +1
      And who are compilers?
      1. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 31
        +1
        Quote: Focker
        And who are compilers?

        these are the ones who take the generally accepted, well-known facts and ADAPT them for themselves, for their own needs. An example - until the 17th century, before Tikhon (the quietest), the Russian faith was called the "Greek faith", "Orthodox" or the RIGHT church !!! Peter signed his decrees, google, - hereby I command ALL RIGHT CHRISTIANS ... etc ... After Peter canceled the Kalyada-Gift of the Calendar, the name of the church was also canceled, and they began to be called like the True Russian Faith - ORTHODOX! And the Orthodox are those who praise the RIGHT, REAL and NAV! And these are all-as-one our ancestors!
        Here is an example of compiling and skimping on historical realities to please yourself ... And I especially note that Orthodox bastard hierarchs are well aware of everything, they know everything ... With the adoption of the Julian calendar, Petrush gave the Jews another 4 thousand years of our visible, Slavic history ...
        1. zh1
          zh1 15 October 2012 15: 50
          0
          It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church is trying to saddle and lead a process that is gaining momentum. Life is becoming more and more interesting!
          1. GG2012
            GG2012 15 October 2012 16: 14
            +2
            Quote: zh1
            The ROC seems to be trying to saddle and lead a process that is gaining momentum

            You rightly said that. Exactly!
            After all, the idea is on the surface:
            Russia intends to grow territories.
            The ROC seeks to provide the government with services to consolidate the population of Ukraine and Belarus. And thus expand its territorial and quantitative base.
            And we, the people, are an asset for the Church (ekonom. Term).
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 31
              0
              for the church? you're nuts? Yes? do you even know what the church is? Apparently I’ll go out! so the Church is Me! my fellow believers! priests, ancestors! For there is no death for us! The church is He!
              and spitting in the church! you and others like you spit over more than 1000 years of Russian history! non-Russians! Russophobes! ordinary creations of judo-marxism
              1. Bashkaus
                Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 42
                +2
                The Church is Me!
                1. GG2012
                  GG2012 15 October 2012 20: 22
                  -1
                  Quote: Bashkaus

                  The Church is Me!

                  To give you a lift in Sklifasovsky ?!
          2. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 28
            +2
            Yeah, as in the 13-17th centuries, it maintained national unity, and now the Russian people will reunite fragmented into Jewish occupation!
        2. Fox 070
          Fox 070 15 October 2012 15: 58
          -1
          Quote: gojesi
          Orthodox, these are those that RIGHT, REALLY and NAVE glorify! And this is all-as-one of our ancestors!

          So who are we after that? The people who betrayed the faith of their ancestors and forgotten their gods. Yes, look around you with your eyes not clouded by endless sermons of Jewish teaching, but with a clear look, remember your ancestors, the great and mighty people who wake up in us in moments of grief and danger, helping to crush the heaps of the Russian land. THINK PEOPLE ...
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 33
            +3
            from your cavalry! demons say betrayer? but they were not sworn! and not yet betraying you at least 40 generations of their ancestors. (unless you are of course Russian, and not a Jew) to talk about TRIETNESS!
          2. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 45
            +6
            You worship the gods, giving the essence to idols to everyone, this is paganism. they wanted to eat, they asked the oak, they wanted rain, they asked the sky. Orthodoxy allows a person to be reunited with a single creator who commands both heaven and earth. Why should I worship some idol if I worship the one who rules everything, the one who created everything?)))
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 15 October 2012 20: 26
              -2
              Quote: Bashkaus
              Why should I worship some idol if I bow to the one who rules everything, the one who created everything?)))

              You can worship what you want - this is your personal affair, but I refuse to be a slave to Jesus (who had been circumcised on the eighth day and became a Jew).
              Better I'd return to the faith of my ancestors. hi
              1. Bashkaus
                Bashkaus 15 October 2012 21: 22
                +2
                Well, read the Acts of the Apostles, it is just about circumcision, Jesus was circumcised according to Jewish laws, but the Jews crucified him, and the pagans accepted and on the contrary he abolished circumcision.
            2. GG2012
              GG2012 15 October 2012 21: 13
              -2
              Quote: Bashkaus
              the one who rules everything, the one who created everything?)))

              And what flood did you organize in Krymsk too?
              Are you healthy at all?
              1. Bashkaus
                Bashkaus 15 October 2012 21: 26
                +2
                Without the will of God, and hair from the head will not fall. Yes, the flood in the Crimean was by the will of God, why he allowed me not to know.
                On the account of whether I am healthy or not, it is not for me to judge.
                And do you think Lermontov was healthy when she wrote a verse of Borodino and these words:
                Bogatyri - not you!
                They got a bad share:
                Few came back from the field ...
                If it were not for the Lord's will,
                They would not give up Moscow!
                1. GG2012
                  GG2012 15 October 2012 23: 05
                  -3
                  Quote: Bashkaus
                  Yes, the flood in Crimean was by the will of God

                  Well, this is your bloodthirsty god, if he arranged it !!!
                  I sat there on top and watched people die!
                  You are Baskaus, servant of evil!
                  I suppose you too are filling up the neighbors when you hear voices in your head ?!
            3. GG2012
              GG2012 15 October 2012 22: 49
              -2
              Quote: Bashkaus
              Orthodoxy allows a person to be reunited with a single creator,

              Become a Jew ?! Is this the happiness of a Christian?
        3. Fox 070
          Fox 070 15 October 2012 16: 35
          -1
          Quote: gojesi
          With the adoption of the Julian calendar, Petrush gave the Jews 4 thousand more years of our visible, Slavic history ...
          1. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 47
            +6
            Nat sc the Julian calendar. All Christian denominations celebrate Easter - the Resurrection of Christ, but everyone except Orthodoxy celebrates it according to the Gregorian style, but the piquancy lies in the fact that the blessed fire of the descendants spoken to everyone precisely for Orthodox Easter, i.e. according to the Julian style, which means the changes were reasonably calculated. ))))
        4. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 26
          0
          Until the 17th century, until Tikhon (the quietest) ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, and who is Tikhon the quietest? you are talking nonsense! in the History of Russia with a similar nickname was only 2 Romanov Alexei., the father of Peter the Great! but what was called the Greek Faith, then in opposition to the Roman !!! By the way, a Jew doesn’t press pace?
        5. Mishael
          Mishael 17 October 2012 12: 52
          -2
          http://my-source.ru/dokumentalnye/1218-igry-bogov.html
          I recommend... hi
    3. anchonsha
      anchonsha 15 October 2012 12: 15
      +14
      It seems you don’t understand anything about what Orthodoxy means for the Russian people ... Anything else will be a rotten foundation for uniting the Russian people. Or you need a second Lenin. Then there will be no stone left from Russia - the Udaltsovs with bulk will hang, as it was already.
      1. Alexss
        Alexss 15 October 2012 12: 43
        -11
        What is the relationship between ZAO ROC and Orthodoxy?
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 13: 08
          +2
          Quote: AlexSS

          What is the relationship between ZAO ROC and Orthodoxy?

          What do you have to do with Russian?
          1. gojesi
            gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 40
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            What do you have to do with Russian?

            do not get personal! It's disgusting! If you have arguments - argue, prove, argue, apologize for your vision, knowledge and understanding ..., if you do not - be silent, but do not offend anyone! Want to ask, expand - in a personal! In your "rank", I suppose it's time to know!
            1. GG2012
              GG2012 15 October 2012 16: 18
              +2
              Quote: gojesi
              do not get personal! It's disgusting!

              It seems rude to Christians - this is normal.
              For some reason, We, non-Christians, treat people, even if they are Christians, much more polite and respectful.
              1. gojesi
                gojesi 15 October 2012 17: 21
                +2
                Quote: GG2012

                It seems rude to Christians - this is normal.
                For some reason, We, non-Christians, treat people, even if they are Christians, much more polite and respectful.

                ... What do you want? The bloodiest, most vile-deceitful, sadist, tribal god Jehovah is called "the god-father". This is their, so to speak, base, foundation, and what can be built on it? Only the same crooked, lopsided consciousness and, as a consequence, a worldview ...
              2. Yoshkin Kot
                Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 34
                -1
                Yeah, give in the face spitting in your Soul! rudeness? kill the arrogant and cynical robber of the occupation of evil?
            2. Bashkaus
              Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 50
              +4
              So far, only Orthodox Christians and their feelings are offended here ...
          2. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 19: 49
            +2
            "What do YOU ​​have to do with Russians?"
            The same as Orthodoxy to Judaism;)
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 15 October 2012 20: 28
              -1
              Quote: Bashkaus
              The same as Orthodoxy to Judaism;)

              That is, the most immediate,
              1. mongoose
                mongoose 16 October 2012 07: 57
                -2
                Ie you called yourself nonsense, but you might not try, we already knew
        2. omsbon
          omsbon 15 October 2012 16: 17
          +3
          Quote: AlexSS
          What is the relationship between ZAO ROC and Orthodoxy?

          As you can see, YOU are a fan of "pusik", well, what can God judge you!
          Well, part-time provocateur. Right ?
          1. Ross
            Ross 15 October 2012 17: 11
            +2
            omsbon,

            As you can see, YOU are a fan of "pusik", well, what can God judge you!
            Well, part-time provocateur. Right ?


            Plato is my friend, oh truth is dearer. Do you remember?
            Is it necessary only "puski" can have a different point of view?
            It's amazing how you drive everything under one comb.
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 35
              0
              what do you have to do with the truth? and to the Russian people? your nickname apparently serves the same purpose that drove Lenin to the blank and Trotsky to Bronstein
              1. Ross
                Ross 15 October 2012 21: 56
                0
                Yoshkin Cat,

                Mr. Kotyara-Mongoose is obsessed with Jews, you provocateur.
                1. mongoose
                  mongoose 16 October 2012 07: 58
                  -1
                  that is, in your opinion, those who shot Russian people and blew up Russian Churches were not Jews? all of these forms, brackets, and other Rosenfelds
                  1. Aaron Zawi
                    Aaron Zawi 16 October 2012 08: 07
                    -1
                    mongoose
                    And rabbis and mullahs, who shot? Jews, of course, actively participated in the revolutionary movement, though mostly in the ranks of the Social Revolutionaries and Mensheviks, but even those who were with the Bolsheviks could not play a leading role. In the 1918 year of the Bolsheviks, there were 270 thousand of which only 23tys. Jews.
                    1. mongoose
                      mongoose 16 October 2012 13: 00
                      0
                      Yeah, among the Bolsheviks, there were no Jews !!!!!! am
            2. omsbon
              omsbon 15 October 2012 18: 59
              +6
              Quote: Ross
              Is it necessary only "puski" can have a different point of view?

              The ROC makes the first real steps towards unification, therefore it has become the main target for opponents. Of course, it’s ridiculous to think about the unification of states on the basis of only Orthodoxy. Our peoples have many other factors in order to be together, but now we need to support the right thing.
              1. Ross
                Ross 16 October 2012 00: 38
                +2
                omsbon,

                Andrei, and I wholeheartedly support the unification of our united people.
        3. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 17: 16
          -3
          Quote: AlexSS
          What is the relationship between ZAO ROC and Orthodoxy?


          NI-KA-KO-GO !!!
          The Orthodox are those who praise RIGHT, REALLY and NAV ... And the current Orthodox are man-haters with complexes of absolute inferiority, worthlessness, drunken brains and cannibalistic (cannibalistic) inclinations! Let someone try to prove (to me-to-another) that RITUAL EATING OF HUMAN Flesh and DRINKING OF HUMAN BLOOD is NOT cannibalism !!!
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 36
            -1
            Yeah, only a Jew, calling all the forum users goyim, about this fishing!
          2. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 20: 04
            +4
            Yeah ... I'll try again to explain in a clear language.
            The ritual cannibalism that you mentioned is called the Holy Communion sacrament.
            God who created the world in the form of a man descended to the earth and during the last supper broke the bread and, along with the wine, gave them to the disciples to eat. Through this, he gave them a kind of tanninism through which a person can be filled with divine energy. His flesh and blood in the form of a piece of bread with dipped wine is symbolic. This means that a person who adheres to the 10 commandments can replenish spiritual and divine energy through this sacrament. With the same success, he could choose any other pagan rite. But he did so because He is one God, he is all the alpha and omega of the world, and we, including its parts, parts of a single whole (I am in you) and (you in me) means that the whole world is also God, everything is like would become one and the only thing that separates us is our pride, i.e. the ego is original sin. when Adam acted contrary.
            So in this rite we are talking only about spiritual things.
            You are a hypocrite. eat meat every day, etc. in order to receive biological energy, you drink beer, which would stick, and at the same time blaspheme those who receive Divine energy. And say any heresy just do not even understand what you are talking about.
      2. GG2012
        GG2012 15 October 2012 13: 00
        -5
        Quote: anchonsha
        Everything else will be a rotten foundation


        Lyudmila Zykina.

        Do not pray to other gods.

        I look at you longingly.
        I'm afraid you will leave forever.
        And go out over our river
        In heaven, a young star.
        Life is open to unkind winds.
        Only the true will stand the temple.
        You are my son, you are the son of Russia.
        Do not pray to other gods.
        Do not pray to other gods.


        Bending trees, bending to the ground, you will not bend.
        You will return to your native home even in the darkness.
        You will return to your native home even in the darkness.

        The reeds are all noisy over the river, I'm going to the aid of the unfortunate.
        I will light a golden star above the native land among the clouds.
        It’s hard to fly in the sky, it’s hard to sing a song about the Motherland.
        And no one, no one knows how much we still have to endure.

        The trees bend, bend to the ground, we will not bend.
        We will return to our sources even in the darkness.
        We will return to our sources even in the darkness.

        Save the native land of our faith.
        We will live only breathing the truth.
        With us is the trinity of eternal Russia:
        Mother and son, and the holy Soul.

        Only the true will stand the temple.
        We will return to our springs.


        And while Russia is still alive, we should sing and cry together.
        And while Russia is still alive, we should sing and cry together.

        The trees bend, bend to the ground, we will not bend.
        By true faith, even in the darkness we will be saved together.
        The trees bend, bend to the ground, we will not bend.
        By true faith, even in the darkness we will be saved together.
        By true faith, even in the darkness we will be saved together.

        http://mp3sound.biz/track-search/%D0%9D%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%
        B5%D1%81%D1%8C_%D1%87%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BC_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BC__na
        me01.html
        1. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 37
          0
          Have you brought a baby to Lithuanian perkunas? his?
      3. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 15 October 2012 16: 26
        +5
        If they hang Chubais, Berezovsky and all kinds of Abramovich and Serdyukov there, then I am FOR! But it is necessary to unite not in Orthodoxy, but in sanity! Orthodoxy is just one of the religions, and if a person prays to the Buddha, but is also a patriot of Russia, then where should he be ordered? What if an atheist? are you not going to unite?
        1. andrey777
          andrey777 15 October 2012 17: 07
          +4
          In this case, the initiative comes from the Russian Orthodox Church
        2. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 17: 23
          0
          Quote: S_mirnov
          But it is necessary to unite not in Orthodoxy, but in sanity!

          Very good thought! +
          1. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 20: 07
            +2
            Yeah, I agree. Orthodoxy is just one of the few common thoughts left in modern humanity.
        3. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 37
          0
          how does it bother you! the very idea of ​​UNITING RUSSIA!
      4. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 17: 10
        +2
        Quote: anchonsha
        Udaltsov with bulk will hang, as it was already.

        I will be the first in line for a license to shoot them ..., you can also add here and Ksyushad And Phil and other Chubais ...
        1. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 38
          -1
          you will not allow the rabbi. if you don’t make more contributions to the synagogue!
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 13: 05
      +3
      Quote: gojesi
      I am only "FOR", but not under the auspices of Orthodoxy! Murderers, liars and compilers originally. Can't reunite on a rotten foundation !!

      A rotten foundation, just in Finland and in other places. As the word Orthodoxy turns you around, you can immediately see who is who. It is under Orthodoxy that there will be a unification and in no other way, I do not like a pleasant path to Finland.
      Quote: gojesi
      - Plato is my friend but the truth is dearer!

      Tell me who your friend is and I will tell you who you are fool
      1. strannik595
        strannik595 15 October 2012 13: 53
        +11
        I knew this priest personally, he recently left for another world, he baptized my wife. Father Vasily Ermakov, served at the Serafimovskoye cemetery in St. Petersburg, where the submariners from the Kursk rested ... most of those who grumble at the church are standing there .... and by the way, Nikon did not expel the Old Believers beyond the Urals, they acted at the glamor of Archpriest Avvakum against the existing government, causing a split in society, calling not to obey the authorities and, accordingly, suppressed by the army, not church units ... study the history of the issue
        1. Fox 070
          Fox 070 15 October 2012 14: 01
          -7
          Quote: strannik595
          I knew this priest personally

          The land is empty for him to rest in peace, but this is just one and a whole somn of idlers hiding by Faith. Remove the blinkers and look around. We scold the police, officials, the government, the president, and the Russian Orthodox Church quietly takes gold and, like his Jewish creators, worships the golden calf.
          1. saveall
            saveall 15 October 2012 15: 12
            +7
            Who told you that? Maybe you just need to open your eyes a little? A huge number of priests who do not have cars at all or who have but are very very modest. A huge number of priests are engaged in the restoration of churches, the construction and organization of Sunday schools for children, rehabilitation centers for drug addicts and alcoholics, are engaged in charity work, etc. A huge number of priests having their large families take foster children.

            But you don’t see it right? You see only what is presented to you for the truth in the media, the Internet, etc. This is the law of a modern person ... He does not go beyond his circle of communication, even on the Internet, at least in life, so it seems to him that everything is exactly as they say in circle of his friends and acquaintances and write in the media that he reads, choosing them again based on their views. Do you have many Orthodox friends? What about the priests? Do you read a lot of Orthodox resources on the Internet?
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 15 October 2012 15: 38
              -7
              Quote: saveall
              Do you have many Orthodox friends? What about the priests? Do you read a lot of Orthodox resources on the Internet?

              Believe me, before making any decision, I carefully study the issue and study the people around me. Almost all of my friends and acquaintances are related to Orthodoxy to one degree or another, there are also several familiar clergymen, and my friend, who conducts business with the diocese, introduced me to them. So these "priests" are not at all embarrassed by me, turn over their financial transactions, the purpose of which is not welfare or help to parishioners, but personal enrichment.
              Almost every year, when I visit the cemetery on my parents' day, I observe how the priests make their way between the graves and, for a certain reward, perform the ritual of remembrance. And of course, "here is a hundred grams, then there is a hundred grams ...".
              And this opinion is not formed by me alone, such as I am VERY much! Therefore, do not poke my face here with the Internet, but rather look around yourself.
              1. saveall
                saveall 15 October 2012 15: 59
                +2
                I apologize if I offended you ... I didn’t see anything like what you say, although I myself go to church and have some priests I know. Apart from those that I didn’t hear about any financial operations for, although we have been there for 20 years (for as many as 20! This is a very long time, so, as you know, there weren’t enough stars from the sky and didn’t turn over huge money) they built a temple and Sunday school, which is attended not only by children, but also by adults there are katachism courses, as well as a patriotic circle for teenagers. I also go to the cemetery on parental Saturdays and have never seen a memorial ritual (memorial service) being held there, this is something new. For this, there is a chapel or temple at the cemetery in which notes are given on the commemoration of the deceased (memorial service).
                But one way or another, there are exceptions in everything, but it would never occur to anyone to judge the whole Church by these exceptions. As Nikolai Berdyaev said, "Don't judge Christianity by Christians." I would add for some Christians even if they are priests.
                Christ said to Peter: "And I say to you: you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it ..." (Matthew 16:18)
              2. Yoshkin Kot
                Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 44
                -1
                n-dya, and on a false red pug?
              3. Bashkaus
                Bashkaus 15 October 2012 20: 13
                +3
                Fox 070 I hope that all the disadvantages that are now being put on you and other people who are not afraid to defend Orthodoxy at the Last Judgment will turn into pluses in the balance. And maybe that very last minus will overflow the scales and allow you to stand at the judge's right hand, separate from the "goats"
              4. SASCHAmIXEEW
                SASCHAmIXEEW 16 October 2012 10: 50
                +1
                It’s not for nothing that you took a nickname - you are a red-headed rogue, like Chubais! I was related to the cemetery and I have never seen drunk priests, maybe there are rogues among them, like you, but they built a chapel in the cemetery, and they take money for work, just like you get for yours .. and don’t judge and don’t you will judge!
                1. Fox 070
                  Fox 070 16 October 2012 13: 25
                  0
                  Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
                  you are a red-headed rogue like Chubais! I was related to the cemetery and have never seen drunk priests

                  You must have been in the blue eye all the time, and you haven’t seen it. Sit do not lean out, cemetery worker.
        2. GG2012
          GG2012 15 October 2012 15: 02
          +1
          Quote: strannik595
          he baptized my wife.

          So what ? Did you get a discount on your wife's baptism? And probably also baptized the car? And if you have two of them, then you are generally a "chocolate" client?
          1. gojesi
            gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 50
            -2
            Quote: GG2012
            So what ? Did you get a discount for your wife’s baptism? And probably baptized the car?

            Believe it or not, I also baptized mine once :) They have the "Rite of Consecration of the Crew" for this :)
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 46
              +3
              Jew, go to the Rebbe, he will explain to you how the sacrament of human baptism differs from the order of sanctification of an object! and do not write more on Christian topics
        3. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 47
          -4
          Quote: strannik595
          I knew this priest personally

          ... well, someone didn’t know him in St. Petersburg :)
          To you for the general ...... he blessed the commander of Kursk when he went on his last campaign!
          Not a bad "blessing" Right? How do you think :)))
          1. andrey777
            andrey777 15 October 2012 17: 10
            +4
            When warriors are blessed, not everyone from the war comes, because the main task of the church is the salvation of the soul.
          2. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 15 October 2012 20: 15
            +3
            I'll tell you honestly, it’s better on the last trip to Kursk, but with a blessing than mediocre trips on a Mercedes 600 without it.
      2. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 44
        -4
        I wrote to you a little higher there ... Here is one of my friends - Please -

        We will amuse good citizens
        And at the Shameful Pillar
        Gut last pop
        We will strangle the last king!
        Pushkin
        1. Fox 070
          Fox 070 15 October 2012 16: 01
          -1
          Quote: gojesi
          We will amuse good citizens
        2. saveall
          saveall 15 October 2012 17: 02
          +5
          Hmm ... Slip a quatrain, which is doubtful to consider Pushkin. As he himself said: “every word is free, every composition is illegal attributed to me as any witty fabrications to Prince Tsitsianov.”

          In hours of fun or idle boredom,
          I used to be my lyre
          Entrusted the pampered sounds
          Madness, laziness and passion.

          But even then the strings are crafty
          I interrupted the ringing involuntarily
          When your voice is grand
          I was suddenly struck.

          I poured streams of tears of the unexpected
          And the wounds of my conscience
          Your fragrant speeches
          Pleased clean was the oil.

          And now from a spiritual height
          You stretch my hand
          And the power of meek and loving
          Humble violent dreams.

          By your fire, the soul of a palim
          Rejected the darkness of earthly vanities
          And listen to the harp of the seraph
          In sacred horror, the poet.

          It is known that in his youth Pushkin really had radical, to put it mildly, views, but over time he completely rejected them. This can be seen even in his correspondence with Metropolitan Filaret.
          Well, it is typical for those who mock Christianity to judge something in common by grabbing only some episode.

          People mocking at something that they do not understand at all remind a child waving a heavy stick in different directions and do not understand that at any time this stick can fuck (and will certainly fuck) his forehead.
        3. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 46
          -1
          habit of lying?
        4. andrey777
          andrey777 15 October 2012 18: 49
          +1
          Vsevolod Chaplin: “I will not talk about names now. I think that you don’t even know them, they are very small people, but they are preoccupied with their own role in history and, obviously, are planning some time to be in demand by the authorities, the West or someone else. They set a goal - to bring the patriarch either to a serious physical breakdown, or to a psychological one. ”Http://news.rambler.ru/15937548/
      3. cyberdamn
        cyberdamn 15 October 2012 17: 08
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        don't like bon voyage to Finland

        Well, why so? .. maybe you’re better off in Siberia, work hard for the good of the Motherland at the same time ...
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 17: 11
          +2
          Quote: cyberdamn
          maybe you’re better off to Siberia, work hard for the good of the Motherland at the same time

          Why Siberia litter, let them go to where body crosses are forbidden. There they will be at home
          1. cyberdamn
            cyberdamn 15 October 2012 17: 14
            -2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            are going

            GO. I addressed it to you.
            my home is in Russia.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 16 October 2012 05: 06
              0
              Quote: cyberdamn
              GO. I addressed it to you.

              I apologize, I did not carefully read your post, you really told me that, but I live in the Far East myself, and you will receive a minus from me
              1. cyberdamn
                cyberdamn 16 October 2012 11: 42
                -1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                I live in the Far East myself

                are you sitting? and is there internet? and why are you sitting?
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                and you get please minus from me

                laughing
    5. Captain
      Captain 15 October 2012 16: 53
      +4
      Zbigniew Brzezinski, login
    6. Bashkaus
      Bashkaus 15 October 2012 18: 47
      +5
      I remember at the university we were given problems on the subject of Logic: Task, logical or not logical, the sentence "Blondes are fools, Ira has white hair, so Ira is a fool.
      I am very sorry that Orthodoxy is judged by individual priests. Orthodoxy must be judged at least by reading more than once thoughtfully the teachings of the Holy Fathers. To understand not only the brains, but also to feel the love of one's neighbor for oneself as one’s own soul, to experience this in practice in a mournful life situation. Orthodoxy is, first of all, people, this is when you are brought up by car and instead of money they are asked to remember in prayer saying your name. Orthodoxy is helping the poor, compassion and patience.
      In the summer I rested in Crimea (another state), but on the day of my Heavenly Patron I came to the temple, in which there were no differences Moskal or crest, Ukrainian or Russian. Everyone equally took the sacrament, becoming not even brothers, but members of one whole.
      If faith in God, Jesus Christ is able to unite people, then why not? Isn't that our legitimate, approved international law?
      1. gribnik777
        gribnik777 18 October 2012 00: 33
        +1
        Do not give the shrine to the dogs and do not throw your pearls before the pigs, so that they do not trample it under their feet and, turning, do not tear you to pieces.
        (Matt. 7. 6.)
    7. crazyrom
      crazyrom 15 October 2012 21: 46
      +4
      Quote: gojesi
      but not under the auspices of Orthodoxy! Assassins, liars

      you confused with Catholics. it is the Catholics who did the murderous crusades, the Inquisition, and are still raping children. There has never been anything like this in Orthodoxy.
    8. Nick
      Nick 15 October 2012 23: 57
      +3
      Quote: gojesi
      there is nothing wrong with reunification, I am only "FOR", but not under the auspices of Orthodoxy!

      Well, give us a more "splendid" alternative. What did you stop at the half phrase? AND?
    9. SASCHAmIXEEW
      SASCHAmIXEEW 16 October 2012 09: 51
      -1
      How will you answer for the words, please examples!
  3. omsbon
    omsbon 15 October 2012 12: 03
    0
    WAIT!
    The main thing that laid the foundation for the process of unification, finally, things have moved forward. We were artificially divorced from different angles to the joy of our enemies, but early on they celebrate victory.
    I am sure of the positive result of the referenda in our countries! Politicians are worrying, but we will not allow them to disregard our opinion.
  4. bubla5
    bubla5 15 October 2012 12: 07
    -3
    You can’t answer for a simple increase in prices, but the unification is all a bluff, here a leader like Lenin or something will be born, then he can still lead to him, but for now the time for Chubais
    1. saveall
      saveall 15 October 2012 12: 26
      +12
      Well, and what did Lenin give us with his Jewish gang, let me ask?

      Mdya ... How, after all, are the tenacious Bolshevik mantras that once and for all hammered all of us. One Orthodox calls murderers, the other worships Lenin ... Sadly.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 13: 09
        +7
        Quote: saveall
        Well, and what did Lenin give us with his Jewish gang, let me ask?

        He destroyed the church, and this one is waiting for the same.
        1. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 54
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          He destroyed the church, and this one is waiting for the same.

          I think that when the hunt for Chubais, Germans, Yavlinsky and for fillet with Ksyushady will be open, then my license will be much faster than yours, but I also undermine these Jewish temples with pleasure !!!
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 58
            +3
            Quote: gojesi
            then my license will be much faster than yours

            Yes, even drown in your blood problemma.
            Quote: gojesi
            but I also gladly undermine these Jewish temples !!!

            Man assumes, but God has! Never you, no one else, no longer raise your hand to the temples, but try to bury you all together with the Germans and without a license.
            1. cyberdamn
              cyberdamn 15 October 2012 17: 19
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              they will bury you all together with Nemtsov and without a license.

              but can you find out who? at least about?
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 17: 33
                +4
                Quote: cyberdamn
                but can you find out who? at least about?

                And you come to the temple to the service, there are not a few people in uniform, if necessary, they outweigh those who want to blow up the temples and orange together with them.
                1. cyberdamn
                  cyberdamn 15 October 2012 19: 54
                  -1
                  Alexander Romanov,
                  and if not to blow up temples, but to "blow up" those who want to create a theocratic state?
          2. saveall
            saveall 15 October 2012 16: 13
            +1
            God does not give horns to a vigorous cow ... laughing
  5. S_mirnov
    S_mirnov 15 October 2012 12: 11
    -2
    The words are correct about unification, etc., but who says them? CJSC "ROC" has already established itself as a commercial organization for which the profit is the highest.
    http://demotivation.me/4d6pldbakdrdpic.html
    http://demotivation.me/oqhg4eid5wlgpic.htm
    http://demotivation.me/bnifc85jtrlqpic.html
    http://demotivation.me/t61h178hwuc8pic.html
    So before us is the most common attempt of priests under the slogan of the unification of the Russian people to regain the flock, which will dutifully carry money to the temples. Indeed, the article does not contain a verse about the purification of the Russian Orthodox Church, the change in its policy - it’s just a game of feelings of Russian people who are tired of the thieves' regime to death.
    This passage is especially outraged: "Unfortunately, it is too early for us to unite, since there is still no new (and at the same time more historical) ideology of unification, which would be widely known and recognized among the people." - we had such an ideology in the USSR. Remember the slogans "Man is a brother to man!" "Peace - Peace!" "Strengthen Friendship of Peoples"?
    Yes, actually about the church commandments that are much similar to Soviet slogans, for some reason the priests forgot.
    In general, a thoroughly rotten priestly brotherhood is trying to pretend to be guardians of the people, just as Sobchak is trying to pretend to be the leader of Russian patriots, it’s ridiculous and only!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqzogPnfl4o&feature=related
    1. consul
      consul 15 October 2012 13: 06
      +6
      here is the price for your demotivators-0
      Yes, actually about the church commandments, which are much similar to Soviet slogans, for some reason the priests forgot.
      -In fact, on the contrary, the commandments of God were replaced by a communist surrogate: instead of icons, portraits of "leaders", instead of church chants, revolutionary, instead of processions of the cross, demonstrations, instead of Holy Scripture, the Scriptures of the "Marxes" and "Lenins", instead of worship, party meetings, instead of the commandments of God - the commandments of the builder of communism (surprisingly similar to God, probably because they knew that communism would not survive without them), instead of priests - political workers.
    2. Fox 070
      Fox 070 15 October 2012 13: 24
      +3
      Quote: S_mirnov
      CJSC "ROC" has already established itself as a commercial organization for which the profit is the highest.

      A rare, egregious, unprecedented case, But I agree with you 100%. Probably in the history of the Russian Orthodox Orthodox Church there were saints, ascetics, ministers caring for the welfare of the laity, but today there are none left. The behavior of the clergy goes beyond all known moral standards. And I'm talking about moral standards for worldly life. The ministers of the church were mired in theft, fornication, bribery, pride ... San became a tool for squeezing out "donations", like a traffic cop's wand.
      In my opinion, the church has discredited itself and the very concept of Faith, turning communion with God into a show for the leadership of the country.
      The reunification of the Slavic people is absolutely necessary and the time has come for its implementation, but not under the auspices of the church.
      1. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 15: 57
        -1
        Quote: Fox 070
        A rare, egregious, unprecedented event, But I agree with you 100%

        ... unbelievable, the second time I plus Fox :)
      2. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 53
        +1
        typical Russophobic propaganda
    3. Victor
      Victor 15 October 2012 13: 29
      +9
      Quote: S_mirnov
      In general, a thoroughly rotten priestly brotherhood is trying to pretend to be guardians of the people, just as Sobchak is trying to pretend to be the leader of Russian patriots, it’s ridiculous and only!

      Oddly enough, but in this regard I agree with you. But for Orthodox people and those who worship their faith, priests in cool cars are not carriers of the word of God. Orthodox does not mean a fool shortsighted. The church, like the country, experienced the difficult 90s and zero, and how we all were blasphemed and abused by people who came and did not carry a spiritual principle in ourselves. But Orthodoxy is a cathedral organism that has become ill, and begins to search for internal forces in itself restoration and cleansing of the infection, which penetrated into it in a compartment with Western installations. And the main strength of this egregor is the simple Orthodox people, who, together with the black clergy (although the infection of money-grubbing and power struggles partially penetrated there), are fighting daily for their souls and the souls of their loved ones. If not for this, the whole country would have plunged into chaos for a long time, and our souls would have long ago accepted the Western world.
      The Charter on the Unification of the Peoples of Russia is the antibiotic that will allow the peoples of Russia, Belarus of Ukraine to recognize themselves as a single nation with a unified, united spirituality, regardless of all Western projects.
      And the obese white clergy, which itself lives in sin, fornication and bribery, will simply perish little by little in the cleansing conciliar (people's) soul of Slavic Orthodoxy in Holy Russia.
    4. Melchakov
      Melchakov 18 October 2012 20: 32
      0
      Quote: S_mirnov
      CJSC "RPC"

      In this case, you are a representative of UAB "IaLiberast". And I can glue the picture together.
      1. Melchakov
        Melchakov 19 October 2012 15: 10
        0
        Melchakov,
        Oops, sorry, something is wrong with the picture, the text did not appear.
  6. GG2012
    GG2012 15 October 2012 12: 13
    0
    It is necessary and necessary to unite !! !100%
    But who is Vsevolod Charlie Chaplin ??? !!!

    This is the one who called the reason for the outbreak of the Second World War - "God's punishment to the Soviet people ..." ??? !!!!
    The initiative should not go from any religious sects !!!
    There is a referendum for this!
    1. mongoose
      mongoose 15 October 2012 12: 56
      0
      oh what a magnificent specimen of homoiudomarxismus
      1. GG2012
        GG2012 15 October 2012 13: 08
        0
        Wow! Talking stuffed animal mongoose!
        They must have resurrected!
        laughing
      2. GG2012
        GG2012 15 October 2012 13: 22
        +1
        Quote: mongoose
        oh what a magnificent specimen of homoiudomarxismus

        Are you advertising yourself on the site ?!
        Then to you in the USA, to California. You like those there ...
        1. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 53
          -2
          I’ll go out of your place
      3. Mishael
        Mishael 17 October 2012 13: 33
        -1
        Quote: mongoose
        homoiudomarxismus

        I do not approve of the behavior, but a good word
    2. andrey777
      andrey777 15 October 2012 17: 18
      +4
      (But who is Vsevolod Charlie Chaplin ??? !!!) Young man, you amaze me with your stupidity!
      1. GG2012
        GG2012 15 October 2012 18: 37
        -1
        Quote: andrey777
        Young man, you amaze me with your stupidity!

        Listen, what impudence!

        I read your comments and was horrified. Your style is monosyllabic utterances !!!
        You didn’t even try to compose a paragraph of live text. The maximum is to copy someone’s paragraph and lay out for your own.
        And you, young man, speak for stupidity!
  7. vladimir64ss
    vladimir64ss 15 October 2012 12: 30
    +12
    Not for nothing that the amers next goal set the collapse of Orthodoxy. This is a tremendous moral force capable of initiating the process of building the State. There will be few secular actions here.
  8. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 15 October 2012 12: 33
    +12
    PERSONALLY MY OPINION .... RELIGION IS EVERYONE'S BUSINESS, AND UNITING UNDER UNDER THE AID OF GENERAL BLOOD AND HISTORY
    1. gojesi
      gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 00
      +2
      Quote: sasha 19871987
      UNIT NECESSARY UNDER THE AEGE OF TOTAL BLOOD AND HISTORY

      very correct understanding of the problem! +
      1. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 55
        +2
        FAITH first of all, for blood can be different! an example of Barclay De Tolly and Bogration, the great Russian nobles and generals
  9. vadimN
    vadimN 15 October 2012 12: 36
    -5
    "This step is all the more significant because it is consecrated by the authority of the Russian Church."

    Haha ...! This is a significant step, it certainly is. But ZAO "ROC" itself pretty much spoiled its authority, and in such a way that talking about it now is simply ridiculous ..., at least among sane people. Even among the visitors to this site, among whom the overwhelming majority are loyal to the country and patriotic people, judgments about the ROC show the true picture of the so-called. "authority" ...
    The farther, the more awkward the Russian Orthodox Church’s attempts to restore the image of a public pastor look. This article is one of such attempts, and no more.
    For the Russian Orthodox Church in its current form, the struggle for the flock is tantamount to a struggle for the sales market, and the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church is nothing more than top managers of a large, almost state, monopoly ... Unfortunately.
    1. mongoose
      mongoose 15 October 2012 12: 55
      +7
      you see, no matter how much you Russophobes and theomachists spit in the sky, the spitting still comes back to you and the sky remains clear! people like you are the true enemies of Russia and the Russian People, and personally, I am 90% sure you are just Jews, afraid that you will have to answer for the "deeds" of your ancestors and contemporaries, and the remaining 10% are just stupid scholars
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 15 October 2012 13: 02
        -6
        Nazi chtoli?
      2. karbofos
        karbofos 15 October 2012 13: 09
        0
        mongoose are you for unification or are you going to puke again?
        1. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 57
          +3
          I am for Orthodox Russia! For the revival of the abused Fatherland! for punishing those who robbed and killed, dismembered Russia into pieces! up to 7 knees!
      3. GG2012
        GG2012 15 October 2012 13: 18
        -3
        Quote: mongoose
        no matter how many Russophobes and God-worshipers you spit in the sky,

        Before Yuri Gagarin's flight into space, the Church for 1000 years with foam at the mouth proved that Christ was sitting on a cloud and looking down.
        After the flight, the Church was embarrassed ... shut up and talked about "Where does your Jewish god live?" - avoids.
        But since October 15, 2012, on the "Saint Mongoose" (in the world: "Ragged Cat"), "grace" descended, from which the "Cat" suffered. Now the "Jewish God" lives in heaven again.
        But we are wild Slavs, for some reason we walk and spit in the sky.
        You tie "Kotyara" with valerian. She crushes you !!!
        1. consul
          consul 15 October 2012 13: 40
          +9
          Before Yuri Gagarin's flight into space, the Church for 1000 years with foam at the mouth proved that Christ was sitting on a cloud and looking down.
          After the flight, the Church was embarrassed ... shut up and talked about "Where does your Jewish god live?" - avoids.
          -Yes)))), tales of the Church, they are so fabulous))). Christians have always known that the earth is spherical and where God is located too.
          1. Matt
            Matt 15 October 2012 13: 45
            +3
            Quote: consul
            Before Yuri Gagarin's flight into space, the Church for 1000 years with foam at the mouth proved that Christ was sitting on a cloud and looking down.
            After the flight, the Church was embarrassed ... shut up and talked about "Where does your Jewish god live?" - avoids.
            -Yes)))), tales of the Church, they are so fabulous))). Christians have always known that the earth is spherical and where God is located too.

            What kind of nonsense ???
            You see what kind of Russians we are, we don’t even complain about modernization, we’ll just demolish everything !!!

            The video may not be the topic, BUT I think it will suit you !!!

          2. GG2012
            GG2012 15 October 2012 13: 52
            -3
            Quote: consul
            Christians have always known that the earth is spherical and where God is located too.

            Yah! And the biblical story of flat earth on three whales ??? ...
            Quote: consul
            and where God is also

            So where is he? Just tell me where ?! In what way does he express himself this "strange Jewish god"?

            Why are the properties that "priests" ascribe to him, after verification, turn out to be the properties of Nature ?!
            1. consul
              consul 15 October 2012 14: 23
              +3
              Yah! And the biblical story of flat earth on three whales ??? ...
              "Where did you find this tale? The first time I hear that this is a biblical story))))), and I read the Bible. Read about the days of creation, it is written about them at the very beginning.
              So where is it? Just answer where ?!
              -Everywhere-He is omnipresent.
              Why are the properties that "priests" ascribe to him, after verification, turn out to be the properties of Nature ?!
              - resurrection from the dead, healing from incurable diseases by human standards, etc. - the properties of nature? Your car (if there is, of course) or your house, any thing with their properties, appeared on their own? Or did someone create them?
              1. GG2012
                GG2012 15 October 2012 15: 17
                +1
                Quote: consul
                Yah!

                If you select a line and then press "quote", a miracle will happen! The program itself will highlight in the desired color and shade the fragment of text you have selected.
                Try it and grace will come upon you.

                Quote: consul
                -Everywhere-He is omnipresent.

                Beautifully answered / not answered. Purely in priesthood.
                Could it be in the molecules? Learned! He is not there.
                Maybe in the air? Learned! He is not there.
                Maybe in the water? Also studied! He is not there.
                Continue?!
                Where? Answer not with "Jewish gesheftmachers", but directly.
                You can’t !!! Sure !!!
                1. andrey777
                  andrey777 15 October 2012 17: 24
                  +3
                  Maybe there is no wind, you don’t see it?
                2. Yoshkin Kot
                  Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 00
                  0
                  n-dya, go buy a bible and read, 99% of the answers to your crazy statements you will find there
                3. Robin_3ON
                  Robin_3ON 15 October 2012 20: 06
                  +2
                  GG2012,
                  Quote: GG2012
                  Beautifully answered / not answered. Purely in priesthood.
                  Could it be in the molecules? Learned! He is not there.
                  Maybe in the air? Learned! He is not there.
                  Maybe in the water? Also studied! He is not there.
                  Continue?!
                  Where? Answer not with "Jewish gesheftmachers", but directly.
                  You can’t !!! Sure !!!



                  Personally, I think that GOD is in every person, and it only depends on the actions of a person whether a person lives with GOD or not. wink
                  1. Robin_3ON
                    Robin_3ON 15 October 2012 23: 21
                    +4
                    And I will add, CONSCIENCE is like a "bell", if there is a piece of GOD left in a person, and if there is no conscience, then everything is bad ...

                    and putting a minus and not writing why is strange, I personally on this site are not for the minuses and not for the pluses, and not for the titles. hi

                    As for the article, I am for the unification of fraternal peoples, and the fact that the church raised this issue is a big plus.
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 41
                +7
                Quote: consul
                -Where did you find this tale? The first time I hear that this is a biblical story))

                Yes, he did not take the Bible into his hands, although he has eyes and ears, he is deaf and blind.
              3. gojesi
                gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 19
                -5
                Quote: consul
                I read the Bible. Read about the days of creation.

                let me not believe you! Those who read "it" argue at a slightly different level ... If you want, we can talk in a personal :) And any nonsense, even if repeated a million times, it will not cease to be nonsense ... I assure you ... "he is omnipresent" this is from this category !!!
            2. Rebus
              Rebus 15 October 2012 15: 04
              +6
              Quote: GG2012
              Yah! And the biblical story of flat earth on three whales ??? ...

              You probably only know about the Bible by rumors ... laughing
              I recommend reading, at your leisure ...
              1. gojesi
                gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 23
                0
                Quote: Rebus
                I recommend reading

                Now, if you read this Jewish porn thriller yourself, then I think it will be interesting to talk with you :)
                The first thing you will be surprised when you start reading "this" is that there are TWO GODS in the Bible !!! I conventionally call them "the god of Elijah" and "the god of Solomon" ...
                I wish you a pleasant reading :)
                1. Rebus
                  Rebus 15 October 2012 16: 49
                  +3
                  Quote: gojesi
                  Now, if you read this Jewish porn thriller yourself, then I think it will be interesting to talk with you :)
                  The first thing you will be surprised when you start reading "this" is that there are TWO GODS in the Bible !!! I conventionally call them "the god of Elijah" and "the god of Solomon" ...
                  I wish you a pleasant reading:

                  In vain are you so, any reading is useful, whether it be Nietzsche or the Vedas, or the Iliad and the Kampf Mine or the Bible, everywhere you can find common thoughts. And regarding theology, the Bible really has controversial points (as there are controversial points in the authors and works I have listed) and I think everyone has the right to have an opinion on what they read.
                  P / S In the book of Genesis (this is the first book of the Bible) the word translated as God from the Hebrew language is translated by the gods (in the plural), so your statement about the two gods is partially true.
                  1. gojesi
                    gojesi 15 October 2012 17: 43
                    0
                    Quote: Rebus
                    In vain are you so, any reading is useful, whether it be Nietzsche or the Vedas,

                    please forgive me Igor, if I somehow inadvertently offended or hurt you! In any case, I did not want to humiliate me, nor, moreover, my aspirations, insult !!!
                    When we read something, including the authors you cited, we, against our will, CONNECT with those who wrote it ... We read "! Antichrist" we connect with Nietzsche, we read Mein Kampf - with Schicklgruber ...
                    If there are "controversial moments" in ordinary books, then the Bible is one of them, believe me, someone who knows almost all the Gospels by heart and who has been in Orthodoxy for more than 20 years ... In short, what is called " you plunge ", then ... who has what, with whom what, for example, my eyes began to open ... What I am immensely happy about!
                  2. Yoshkin Kot
                    Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 02
                    +1
                    storyteller, alternativeists such alternativeists in everything, and by the way the language in which the Old Testament is written is called Hebrew
              2. GG2012
                GG2012 15 October 2012 16: 46
                -2
                Quote: Rebus
                I recommend reading, at your leisure ...

                What book are you ready to discuss with me?
                1. Rebus
                  Rebus 15 October 2012 16: 55
                  +3
                  Quote: GG2012
                  What book are you ready to discuss with me?

                  The one where it says about flat land and three whales smile
          3. baltika-18
            baltika-18 15 October 2012 15: 32
            +2
            Quote: consul
            Christians have always known that the earth is spherical and where God is located too.

            One can argue with this statement. The church only 200 years ago recognized that the earth revolves around the sun, and not vice versa, to be precise, in 1828.
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 03
              -1
              do not confuse the bishop of Rome and the Church! and you will be happy!
        2. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 11
          -1
          Quote: GG2012
          We are wild Slavs, for some reason we walk and spit in the sky

          SLAVAN SLAV-YAN-IN
          SKY - NET God. Therefore, why don’t we spit in him :))) And the place where there are no demons is called among the Slavs of SKY - SKY ... :)
        3. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 18: 58
          -2
          consult a doctor, but I'm afraid your glucose inspired by the liquid Marxist propaganda is not curable
      4. Fox 070
        Fox 070 15 October 2012 13: 34
        +3
        Quote: mongoose
        personally, I'm 90% sure you are just Jews, afraid that you will have to answer for the "deeds" of your ancestors and contemporaries, and the remaining 10% are just stupid scholars

        Or maybe WE are people who honor the Faith of their ancestors and do not want to worship the inventions of the Jews so beloved not only by you. Take a look at the primates of the Russian Orthodox Church, the Russian Orthodox Church. Mohammedans kissing the gums with the supreme rabbis and assuring them of their loyalty, friendship and non-resistance. So who are you after all this? Following your logic - the Judeo-Orthodox masochist, stroking himself on the one hand (Orthodox) and fiercely torturing on the other (Judaism). Think about it ...
        1. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 24
          +1
          Quote: Fox 070

          Or maybe WE are people who honor the Faith of their ancestors and don’t want to worship the inventions of Jews so beloved not only by you

          ... unbelievable !!! Fox is the third plus from me :)))
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 04
            -1
            well, like this. the same in the synagogue they teach that He was a Jew, did not fall so frankly
        2. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 04
          -2
          if you are Russian, and I’m sure that this is not so, then your ancestors of at least 40 generations were Christians! and it was you who betrayed the Faith of the Fathers!
      5. baltika-18
        baltika-18 15 October 2012 14: 02
        +4
        Quote: mongoose
        and personally, I'm 90% sure you are just Jews, afraid that you will have to answer for the "deeds" of your ancestors and contemporaries, and the remaining 10% are just stupid scholars

        Why, Dima, do you swear all the time, call people names. Why do you think that there are only Jews around. If you are going to argue with someone, argue reasonably, do not break into a cry. Good luck.
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 15 October 2012 14: 30
          +4
          As for the union, it was once said that with the current systems in our countries, this is unlikely. The government is strongly connected with the oligarchy, and the oligarchs, whether they want it or not, are controlled by world financial institutions and this dependence is very great.
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 07
            0
            unbelief is akin to despair, leads to hell! I believe! and I know Holy Orthodox Russia will once again be One! According to our prayers and deeds!
        2. vadimN
          vadimN 15 October 2012 15: 36
          +5
          Quote: baltika-18
          Dima why do you always swear, call people names


          ... And there is such a profession - a network troll. The task is to sink any constructive dialogue in verbiage and squabble, so that beyond the squabble people would not see the truth that is born in the dispute.
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 09
            -1
            but there is such a feeling called patriotism! I also give it in the face when in my presence the former Russians call Russia "this country" well the Judeo-Bolsheviks brainwashed the Vyrusy
        3. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 06
          0
          and you look around! look at the TV screen? the surname of the experts, the frankly boorish and Russophobic behavior of the descendants of those who arranged a Jewish re-assault in my Russia in 17 and flooded it with Russian blood!
      6. ivant74ru
        ivant74ru 15 October 2012 15: 22
        -2
        And you know, Jesus Christ was also a Jew. After all, worship a Jew =)
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 33
          +3
          Quote: ivant74ru
          And you know, Jesus Christ was also a Jew. After all, worship a Jew =

          Christ is the son of God, and not a Jew, it’s enough to write and clog up people’s brains. You don’t believe in anything, so drag on the article to spit out the faith of others. The minus is life-giving.
        2. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 11
          -1
          ethos claim only Jews!
          1. He is the Son of God! and the Creator, every one appeared before his creation (Adam) and even he was not the first Jew, but much later from the descendants of Shem),
          2. at 0 from R.Kh. even among the Jews, kinship was considered by the father, see the tribal tribe of David, in the book of Genesis
      7. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 05
        -1
        Quote: mongoose
        you see how many Russophobes and God-worshipers you would not spit in the sky

        I am a SLAVYANOPHIL, but according to your graduation it is a "God-fighter", but I have it from being informed ... AND HEAVEN is a place where there is NO GOD or - NO-GOD, and a place where there are no demons is called in Russian - will you understand HEAVEN or need to explain it? ??
    2. consul
      consul 15 October 2012 13: 23
      +12
      Sorry, but your opinion is purely on the Internet and shows ignorance of church affairs. By the way, in the same place in Krymsk, a local priest personally rescued more than 60 people on a boat, and people from the nearest parishes immediately came to help. Remember the plane crashed where two priests began to rescue from under the rubble. , who came running from their gardens to their dachas, the majority stood and filmed on their phones. In your opinion, this is a struggle for the "sales market"?
      1. consul
        consul 15 October 2012 13: 28
        +3
        "top manager", however
        1. vadimN
          vadimN 15 October 2012 15: 47
          +1
          Let not him ... And who is the one who provokes an expensive foreign car accident and beat women? ... I'm talking about whose DVR recording was miraculously "eaten" by a virus ... And who is the one who drives a Ferrari zealously through the streets of Moscow? And who are those who, in the 90s, took advantage of the privileges for the import into the country of disgusting products - tobacco and alcohol?

          ... And this is only a small part of the facts that have become generally known .... The Church must be cleansed of such "shepherds" if she really serves God and the people!
      2. Mikado
        Mikado 15 October 2012 13: 50
        +1
        You confuse the courage of individual priests and the top of the Russian Orthodox Church, together with the system that they created.
        1. consul
          consul 15 October 2012 14: 03
          +6
          This is the vicar (deputy) of the patriarch-bishop of Domodedovo Eutykhius.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 15 October 2012 14: 51
            -1
            And what does this picture prove? General Rokhlin was an excellent commander, like many ordinary officers and soldiers, did this greatly affect the situation in the army and its collapse? By the way, it is not visible what is written under the picture.
          2. GG2012
            GG2012 15 October 2012 15: 21
            -3
            Quote: consul
            This is the vicar (deputy) of the patriarch-bishop of Domodedovo Eutykhius.

            Oh! Production photos are immediately visible! Interestingly, Rabbi Eutychius managed to hide the $ 30 watch, or will he have to work on Photoshop again?
          3. GG2012
            GG2012 15 October 2012 15: 44
            -2
            Quote: consul
            This is the vicar (deputy) of the patriarch-bishop of Domodedovo Eutykhius.


            It is Eutykhius who works out his sins by physical labor at the "free" construction sites of the Russian Orthodox Church, for the fact that in 1990 he abandoned the Russian Orthodox Church and moved to serve in the Russian Church Abroad. The priests do not forgive such betrayal. And in 2006 he asked to come back. Hungry there abroad. Not enough money. He was forgiven and rewarded.

            In 2007, the ROC took back the "prodigal priest" and even gave a new post. And also in all past parishes of the Russian Church Abroad in Russia are given archpastoral ministry, according to the Appendix to the Act of Canonical Communion. "As a result, Eutychius rose in money is not real !!!!

            Dear Consul Today, 14:03 ↑, learn the materiel before posting "tearful" pictures of "working priests" !!!

            From the Journal of the Meeting of the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate of December 26, 2006

            Bp Evtikhiy (Kurochkin)

            MAGAZINE №119

            LISTENED: Report of His Grace Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, Chairman of the Department for External Church Relations, on the petition received by Bishop Eutykhius regarding his acceptance into the jurisdiction of the Moscow Patriarchate.

            REFERENCE:

            On May 16, 1990, the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia decided to open parishes and dioceses on the canonical territory of the Moscow Patriarchate. In the same year, Abbot Evtikhiy (Kurochkin), clergyman of the Omsk-Tyumen diocese, addressed the His Grace Archbishop of Omsk and Tyumen Theodosius with a statement on transfer to the jurisdiction of the Russian Church Abroad. On July 13, 1990, Abbot Eutyches was banned in the ministry by His Grace Bishop Anthony of Tobolsk and Tyumen. On July 24, 1994, he was ordained bishop in the Znamensky Church in New York by Metropolitan Vitaly (Ustinov) and his fellow bishops of the Russian Church Abroad.

            Subsequently, Bishop Eutyches spoke as a supporter of the restoration of full communion of the Russian Church Abroad with the Moscow Patriarchate. In 2004 - 2006 took part in some joint meetings of the Moscow Patriarchate commission on dialogue with the Russian Church Abroad and the Russian Church Abroad commission on negotiations with the Moscow Patriarchate. In May 2006, Bishop Eutyches took part in the All-Diaspora Council, where he also advocated the restoration of the canonical unity of the Russian Church.

            In a letter dated October 3, 2006, addressed to His Holiness Patriarch Alexy regarding the reinstatement of Vladimir Karelin in the holy dignity, Bishop Evtikhii expressed sincere repentance for the actions that led to the creation of a “malicious split”.

            On November 26, 2006, Bishop Evtikhii appealed to His Holiness Patriarch Alexy with a request to remove the punishment imposed on him and to accept the canonical subordination of the Moscow Patriarchate.

            On December 22, 2006, His Grace Anthony, now the Archbishop of Krasnoyarsk and Yenisei, in 1990 forbade Hegumen Evtikhiy (Kurochkin) in the priesthood, freed him from the previously imposed punishment.

            RESOLVED:

            1. Noting the removal of the canonical punishment imposed on His Grace Eutychius when he was abbot, recognize him in the current rank of bishop.

            2. On the question of the further ministry of Bishop Eutyches, to have a judgment after the entry into force of the Act on Canonical Communion, which will restore the canonical unity of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Church Abroad.
            1. GG2012
              GG2012 15 October 2012 15: 47
              -4
              This is a sequel dedicated to the "prodigal priest" Eutychius.

              On May 16, 2007, a meeting of the Synod of the MP was opened in the patriarchal working residence in Chisty Lane. It addresses issues related to the upcoming May 17 signing of the "Act on Canonical Communion" between the MP and ROCOR (L).
              “At a meeting of the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church on December 26, 2006 (Journal No. 119), a decision was made to recognize Bishop Eutykhius (Kurochkin) as bishop, and to have a judgment on his further ministry after the entry into force of the Act on Canonical Communion, which will restore the canonical unity of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Church Abroad. ” The Appendix to the Act on Canonical Communion, signed by His Holiness the Patriarch on May 17, 2007, states: “Acting in the spirit of church economy, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad provide a five-year transitional period for the full settlement of the situation of the former parishes of the Russian Church Abroad on canonical territory of the Moscow Patriarchate through their entry into the jurisdiction of local ruling bishops. Until the end of this period, such parishes that are not located on the territory of the Self-Governing Churches are given the opportunity to be cared for by the Vicar of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, who, with the blessing of the Patriarch, is also given the opportunity to take part in the work of the Council of Bishops and the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad at her invitation First Hierarch. "

              In connection with this decision, the Synod of the MP at its meeting on May 16, 2007 decided:

              1. His Grace Bishop Eutykhius (Kurochkin) to be Bishop of Domodedovo, Vicar of the Moscow Diocese, entrusting him with the temporary archpastoral ministry of the former parishes of the Russian Church Abroad in Russia, according to the Appendix to the Act on Canonical Communion.

              2. Those who are in the temporary canonical jurisdiction of His Grace Bishop of Domodedovo Eutykhia recognize the clergy in accordance with the agreed list.

              3. The decision shall enter into force after the signing of the Act of Canonical Communication.

              Source: MP official website
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 34
          +5
          Quote: Mikado
          You confuse the courage of individual priests and the top of the Russian Orthodox Church,

          And how much do you know about the top and you personally know someone or only from the swamp saites of Bzezhinsky Old take.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 15 October 2012 15: 45
            +2
            I know that the most important priest wears cauldrons for thirty bucks, I know that he drives a gelding, and at the same time he reads sermons on how bad it is to chase a golden calf. I know that, instead of condemning, at least in words, and generally expelling his ward from the ROC, who nearly killed people with a bucket on the roadster, he is silent in a rag. I know that in every large store urns are hanging for alms to restore a particular church, while the Russian Orthodox Church buys churches in France and Italy for a lot of money, the patriarch’s residences are being built, I know that. Well, you, apparently, a fan of Brzezinski, you even know what he has on the sites there.
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 15
              -4
              um, what's your business? I don’t see anything wrong with that! no, can I still personally as a believing Christian, in your opinion, should sell my Toyota Camry? don’t you find that your opinion on this issue is simply unnecessary? you do not belong to the Church! and go for a walk! in the gateway
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 15 October 2012 19: 34
                +1
                Apparently you just came from there? Well, how did you like it?)) You, as a believing Christian, can do anything, you don't give a damn to me, but he is the head of the church, my church, calling in sermons to humility, to confront the "golden calf" and he himself is open who puts on these sermons, what is such a person called? Well, what should I do, in this matter your opinion is simply superfluous))
                1. Yoshkin Kot
                  Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 20: 27
                  -5
                  judging by nikue. go to japan and there ask about the cost of the boilers from the "god"
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 15 October 2012 21: 34
                    0
                    Nothing more to say? Well then shut up)
                    1. mongoose
                      mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 08
                      -1
                      what to talk to you about? you are like that cook, you "know" everything about the church
          2. gojesi
            gojesi 15 October 2012 17: 59
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            you personally know someone

            I know the godfather, the nickname "patriarch", although at that time he was not yet a patriarch, but only a bishop, we even washed in the bathhouse ... With I. Roman (sweet singer), with the fact that in the seclusion now, with O. A. Kuraev, with prof. MDD Alexei Ilyich Osipov, the knowledge from whom became the last straw "for the exit from the Russian Orthodox Church. And also - personal friendship with the Father Superior of the Helsinki parish.
            I know the Gospels by heart ... I was “rewarded” for all this by the Jewish god with bodily illness, or cancer! Being sick, he wrote to the Patriarchate and demanded an anathema on himself, which he did not wait for. I wrote personally to the godfather and Osipolv ... :) What did you do then? Then he killed the cancer, ceased to be a slave and to be afraid. Finally became a Human! But I'm afraid it will be difficult for the "slaves of God" to understand this ...
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 16
              -4
              Yeah, again the Jewish storyteller is torn
            2. GG2012
              GG2012 15 October 2012 19: 38
              +2
              Quote: gojesi
              Finally became a Human! But I'm afraid it will be difficult for the "slaves of God" to understand this ...

              I applaud you !!!
              In 1990, I got into an accident. Broke the spine.
              A year later, he climbed out and began to walk. First barely. Then something like that. Then a little bit. And so for several years it diverged.
              In the beginning there was time, I would lower my foot from the bed to the floor, already an achievement.
              And then ... time and labor will grind everything.
              Someone slipped the Bible to me then. Frankly, I was disgusted to identify with that slavewhose role was prescribed to me in advance.
              My Slavic soul did not accept this muck!
              1. s1н7т
                s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 21
                +2
                Quote: GG2012
                My Slavic soul did not accept this muck!

                I join! Russians, unlike "Russians", have always been free!
              2. mongoose
                mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 09
                0
                n-dya and where you were a liar in the bible could read about the slave?
            3. saveall
              saveall 15 October 2012 21: 10
              +4
              gojesi,
              I know the godfather, the nickname "patriarch", although at that time he was not yet a patriarch, but only a bishop, we even washed in the bathhouse ... With I. Roman (sweet singer), with the fact that in the seclusion now, with O. A. Kuraev, with prof. MDD Alexei Ilyich Osipov, the knowledge from whom became the last straw "for the exit from the Russian Orthodox Church. And also - personal friendship with the Father Superior of the Helsinki parish.
              I know the Gospels by heart ... I was “rewarded” for all this by the Jewish god with bodily illness, or cancer! Being sick, he wrote to the Patriarchate and demanded an anathema on himself, which he did not wait for. I wrote personally to the godfather and Osipolv ... :) What did you do then? Then he killed the cancer, ceased to be a slave and to be afraid. Finally became a Human! But I'm afraid it will be difficult for the "slaves of God" to understand this ..

              Hmm ... as we sir already discussed with you about your story. How is it that people like hieromonk Roman and Alexei Ilyich Osipov (I’m not even talking about the patriarch at all - for you it’s like a red rag), knowing all this supposedly “knowledge” remain faithful to the Church. Or maybe you want to say that they are liars and crooks, and only you are so super pure and extra honest that after learning this you immediately decided to leave the Church. I will tell you again, like last time, that you are lying. It was not at all some knowledge that caused your departure from the Church.
              I even understand what exactly caused you to leave the Church, unless of course everything you write about it is a lie from beginning to end ... And I understand you perfectly well, since such a misfortune as cancer happened to you. Then anyone would despair and become embittered. It's very hard...
            4. s1н7т
              s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 22
              -5
              They are slaves and will remain.
        3. vadimN
          vadimN 15 October 2012 18: 52
          +1
          Quote: Mikado
          You confuse the courage of individual priests and the top of the Russian Orthodox Church, together with the system that they created.


          Not! I do not confuse them! I consciously unite them together, for "the flock, blindly following its sinful shepherd, will come to sin".
          And let some priests forgive me, whom I attribute more to the exception than to the rule, but the church, in my opinion, is such an organization that cannot divide itself into “bad” leaders and “good” rank and file. If the church is one, answer her for her sins together, and until she sorts out her sins and cleanses them from them, such a church has no moral right to preach righteousness among people!

          Unfortunately, the courage and spiritual deed of individual ministers of the church is overshadowed by the grim veil of antidominations done by other priests. And vice versa does not happen. This is an old fly in the ointment ...
      3. Fox 070
        Fox 070 15 October 2012 13: 51
        +1
        Quote: consul
        , in the same place in Krymsk the local father personally saved over 60 people on the boat

        And in the same place in Krymsk, the Orthodox "priests" refused to service the dead for free, and in all parishes, until the president roared at them. Moreover, Patriarch Kirill was silent. The funeral service even for the poor costs decent money (okay, I'm not talking about baptism and wedding, for this, probably, you can pay).
        They are not fighting for the purity of our souls, but for their stable income.
        1. consul
          consul 15 October 2012 14: 30
          +3
          http://www.pravmir.ru/cerkov-i-krymsk-chto-proisxodit
          read the source, not fiction
          1. vadimN
            vadimN 15 October 2012 15: 50
            -3
            Quote: consul
            http://www.pravmir.ru/cerkov-i-krymsk-chto-proisxodit
            read the source, not fiction



            ... This is not the source, but the official page of the church site. Just an agitation in which you can write everything.
        2. gojesi
          gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 33
          +1
          Quote: Fox 070
          "priests" refused to service the dead for free, and in all parishes, until the president roared at them. Moreover, Patriarch Kirill was silent. The funeral service even for the poor costs decent money (

          "... for free you received, - for free and give ..." These are the words of their God, and this is not the Bible, this is from the Gospels, here they will not be unscrewed! It was their Christ who spoke ...
      4. vadimN
        vadimN 15 October 2012 15: 42
        +3
        Honor and praise to those priests! As, however, and the laity who helped people. Not only priests saved ... There is a huge gap between the leadership and ordinary people. This is a property of any large organization. The only trouble is that honest and kind people standing at the bottom of the pyramid (in our case, the church), because of their position, are forced (often against their understanding and against their will) to implement the long-term strategy of religious enslavement and instilling the slave complex, given once by those who for centuries have been dreaming of subjugating free peoples, one way or another, including Russian.

        I will not give examples of money-grubbing and swagger emanating from some representatives of the Russian Orthodox Church. A sufficient number of them have been known recently ...
      5. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 28
        +1
        Quote: consul
        in Krymsk a local father personally saved over 60 people on a boat

        I understand your perplexity, it would be more familiar if he did not save and drowned! But in this case, he did not act as a Jew, but as Rus, a Slav! Honor to him, praise and glory!
  10. NAV-STAR
    NAV-STAR 15 October 2012 12: 44
    +7
    When our power was united, we jointly built aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, the world's best nuclear deterrent, etc. And when the people were divided, the elite established by the Anglo-Saxons then could even cut the universal fruits for scrap.
    We are strong when united !!!
    1. gojesi
      gojesi 15 October 2012 18: 06
      0
      Quote: NAV-STAR
      We are strong when united !!!

      Alexander, we are talking about which platform and by whose message to unite !!! What will be the foundation and the banner ... That's what it is about, and as for the association, someone would argue ....
      1. mongoose
        mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 11
        -1
        by itself you need a "union" on the basis of Judeo-Marxism, so that you Jews would continue to plunder the Russian people in the likeness of the 20s and 90s of that century, I'm not surprised
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 17
      -2
      Definitely a plus! But I want to note that it was not the people who were divided (yet), but the "state". And if we remain our own for ours, the power will be restored back. Where can she go? laughing
      1. mongoose
        mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 12
        -1
        Yeah, the united Russian people were divided back in 1924, creating the USSR and shredding it in the national republics
  11. aleksey
    aleksey 15 October 2012 12: 46
    +7
    The Russian Church has always played a state-forming and preserving role in Russia, in contrast to individual statesmen. We look at the map of Kievan Rus 11c. and we see that the territory where the same united people lived at the same time included all the administrative centers that, for historical reasons, took over the capital's functions: Novgorod, Kiev, Vladimir and Suzdal, Moscow. Yes, the Tatars ravaged the southern principalities, but the Polish-Lithuanian occupation could not prevent the reunification of the people in the 17th century. Really the people will not overcome the 70-year-old legacy of the national policy of the Bolshevik Ulyanov and the company, the monster and the Russophobe ... this will happen faster than many might think. Glory of the Great Russian Empire!
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 15 October 2012 13: 55
      +1
      Quote: aleksey
      and preserving role,

      State-forming - I agree played. But until 1917.
      The preserving role - here you went over.
      From the PeopleBloodThe Church has played and is trying to play the main role now.
      1. aleksey
        aleksey 15 October 2012 14: 22
        0
        no busting .. who reconciled the princes in civil strife (and people died) - metropolitans and patriarchs, who called for peace and unity (unlike modern politicians) - the churchmen you hate, finally, who brought the letter to Russia (we all write and read in Cyrillic) - Orthodox monks Cyril and Methodius, the Red Cross society was created by Christian organizations, charity, orphanages, visits to hospitals and prisons.
        Quote: GG2012
        From the PeopleBloodThe Church has played and is trying to play the main role now.

        What did the Church do wrong, get into your pocket personally? I doubt it .. you don’t want to - don’t give ...
        1. vadimN
          vadimN 15 October 2012 15: 57
          +4
          Quote: aleksey
          who brought the letter to Russia (we all write and read in Cyrillic) - Orthodox monks Cyril and Methodius


          With all due respect to the opponents, I must disagree with you! Writing in Russia was long before Cyril and Methodius. For some reason, even without them, birch bark letters were written, for some reason even before them, and without them the "Velesov Book" was written ...
          The main merit of K and M is not just that they created the Cyrillic alphabet ... It is not widely accepted to talk about the main merit (except perhaps in narrow circles of historical scholars, and then not for publication). And it consisted in the fact that they adapted the biblical texts to the Russian language, so that the forcible advancement of Christianity in Russia would be more intensive, so to speak, based on the printed word ...
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 18
            -4
            example! to the studio! and then from a series of 140 summer ukrov
          2. s1н7т
            s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 02
            0
            So it was, that's right.
            1. mongoose
              mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 13
              0
              as I understand it, you are a patron, born 1 years ago? laughing
          3. aleksey
            aleksey 16 October 2012 12: 04
            -1
            let me find out in what language (what is the alphabet) this "Velesov book" is written. For example, Tatishchev in his writings gives a dozen versions of the origin of the actual writing of the Russians, among them versions of the use of Gothic or Greek writing, but these versions do not find reliable confirmation, Platonov speaks of the arrival of writing in Russia with Christianity, and with it book education. One of the first was brought the Bulgarian translation of the Nomokanon (Leader of the Book), made by St. Cyril and Methodius, who in fact were teachers and enlighteners of the entire Slavic world
        2. Fox 070
          Fox 070 15 October 2012 16: 56
          +3
          Quote: aleksey
          who brought the letter to Russia (we all write and read in Cyrillic) - Orthodox monks Cyril and Methodius,

          In reality, in Russia there were originally many types of writing. But Cyril and Methodius did not create anything, but, on the contrary, successfully carried out a special operation to impoverish and simplify the Russian language, depriving the Old Slavic alphabet of the nine most important images of Russian letters. The purpose of this diversion (and you can not say otherwise) was to translate the Bible for the Slavs, whose name, subsequently, cleansed any manifestations of the original Slavic culture.


          http://tainy.net/4073-kirill-i-mefodij-polozhili-nachalo-unichtozheniyu-slavyans
          koj-pismennosti-i-culture.html
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 01
            +1
            + 100500!
            Definitely a plus! Opponents, of course, will not go into it - why do they need it? But suddenly someone learns about the history of the country a little more)
        3. s1н7т
          s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 06
          +1
          No need to lie and distort! The Russian Orthodox Church has always acted only in its own interests! Like any AO nowadays laughing
          Our priests (in the early days) either served in the service of the government (a particular prince, otherwise they would hang), or worked for Byzantium. The rest is fiction.
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 37
        +1
        Quote: GG2012
        From the PeopleBloodThe Church has played and is trying to play the main role now.

        And have you sucked a lot of it?
      3. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 17
        -2
        Well, is language still not dry? fingers did not fall off? I’ll help you
      4. s1н7т
        s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 09
        -5
        The ROC has never played any positive role in the history of Russia. She only defended her interests and those of the authorities - like any religion. Have you fallen from the moon? She had no state-forming role! After consolidation in Russia, their task was to save the organism to which they sucked, nothing more!
    2. Fox 070
      Fox 070 15 October 2012 14: 33
      -4
      Quote: aleksey
      We are looking at the map

      Well, well, you can look at the map.
      1. aleksey
        aleksey 15 October 2012 14: 54
        +2
        re-read my post more attentively - it says about Kievan Rus, and even the 11th century, this state was penned in such a way, your mistake could be attributed to carelessness, if not for your persistence in discrediting Christianity ... Your embarrassment is exacerbated by another circumstance that Kievan Rus was at first pagan ... like this
        1. Fox 070
          Fox 070 15 October 2012 15: 21
          0
          Quote: aleksey
          re-read my post more attentively

          I carefully read all the posts, including yours. I just came across the expression "look at the map" and showed the map that I considered necessary to demonstrate. Of course, neither this map nor comments to it have anything to do with Kievan Rus. I just had to speak. It's just not clear how the fact that Kievan Rus was pagan intensifies my "embarrassment"? Explain. request
          1. Rebus
            Rebus 15 October 2012 15: 40
            0
            Quote: Fox 070
            ... I just came across the expression "look at the map" and showed the map that I considered necessary to demonstrate.

            Judging by the map, Greenland is a bastion of conservative Christianity (they drink more than 13 liters) laughing
            In general, alcohol consumption is not an indicator of the religious orientation of the local population IMHO. In the countries indicated, on your map, you will not especially lighten in light color, it is hot there, continuous deserts and semi-deserts. Alcohol abuse in any country is an indicator of moral and cultural decay.
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 15 October 2012 16: 09
              -4
              Quote: Rebus
              light color especially does not swell, it is hot there, continuous deserts and semi-deserts.

              Following your logic in Australia is very cold Yes, and South America is almost a cold pole. Does not inspire ... bully
              1. Rebus
                Rebus 15 October 2012 16: 31
                +1
                Quote: Fox 070
                Following your logic in Australia is very cold Yes, and South America is almost a cold pole. Does not inspire ...

                I repeat once again, the use of alcohol does not depend on a religious orientation. On your map in Nigeria they drink more than 11 liters with a population of more than 50% of Muslims, and in neighboring Cameroon, where most Christians drink an average of 3 liters. Question to you, where is the logic in the signature to your card?
      2. Mikado
        Mikado 15 October 2012 15: 03
        0
        It’s just that it’s forbidden to drink in Muslim countries, so they are white on your card, but it’s not forbidden to let the drug into your veins, where is the main center for heroin production? Right, on the white dots on your map. Drinking is prohibited. it’s necessary to do something like that, it’s out of the situation, than to hit it on the head to make it feel good, here they take narcotics.
        1. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 21
          -2
          Yeah, especially in the Caucasus and Central Asia, as well as in Indonesia, well, they don’t drink at all laughing
          By the way, as in Russia before the Bolsheviks, everything was so buzzing and they went and did not plow the land and did not work at the factories!
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 15 October 2012 19: 39
            -2
            Well, judging by the same map, they don’t drink at all in Indonesia. In Central Asia, slightly more fermented, but this is due to the fact that there are relatively many non-Muslims.
            And why did they go drunk? There is such an upsetting as "drinking culture". there, Europe is all blacker than Russia on the map, this does not mean that there are more drunks than we have, they just know how to drink so as not to get drunk.
            1. Yoshkin Kot
              Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 20: 29
              -1
              uh-huh, they all "don't drink" until Allah sees laughing
    3. gojesi
      gojesi 15 October 2012 16: 35
      +2
      Quote: aleksey
      The Russian Church has always played a state-forming and preserving role in Russia, in contrast to individual statesmen. We look at the map of Kievan Rus 11v

      it never happened !!! Dear you, on educational program!
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 15 October 2012 21: 31
        -3
        laughing
        And he is either a fool (and it makes no sense to explain anything), or he writes here for money (all the more)))
        1. bask
          bask 15 October 2012 21: 40
          0
          Well, s1n7t, a favorite, topic for you. Well, again for everything Russian, the Orthodox will begin to spoil or vomit. Bzezinski is our site h ....... t.
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 47
            +1
            Shopian, Basque! Read the story. Russian - pagan, Orthodox - Russian! Here you have to choose - you are Russian or Russian. I am for the Russians. Which were hanged and burned by the villages and villages during the "sending". This is the real "contribution" of the ROC to the history of the country and the people!
            And leave Brzezinski for yourself - he also wants to see us miserable and downtrodden, "like a flock of sheep" laughing
    4. s1н7т
      s1н7т 15 October 2012 22: 14
      0
      Pi-pez, nonsense! Perhaps the parish was finishing? laughing
      "Glory of the Great Russian Empire!" - in general sounds derisive from the apologist of the Russian Orthodox Church! With the advent of the Russian Orthodox Church, Rus disappeared, Read the story! And you are not a Russian, but a "Russian", damn it ... unfinished.
      1. bask
        bask 15 October 2012 22: 53
        +3
        s1n7t. I’m not Russian, it’s true. But you are like a petty dirty trick, bzdish in your Russians. If you are such a patriot cheer, go and “fight”, with Alibek Pupyrchaty About the topic on Syria. The pussy is thin, petty dirty trick !! Only you can stay around the corner m ....... n.
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 16 October 2012 00: 57
          -3
          Damn ... Basque, how old are you? Finish school (although now this is not an indicator, of course), then we will discuss whether it is worth joining the debate with the trolls.
      2. aleksey
        aleksey 16 October 2012 10: 00
        0
        Quote: c1n7
        With the advent of the Russian Orthodox Church, Russia disappeared, read the story!

        with the adoption of Orthodoxy, Russia began to grow stronger and expand (you don’t like it! ???) for thousands of kilometers from west to east and from north to south. Prince Vladimir (in your opinion - an enlightened pious pagan) accepted some Jewish religion from the Greek barbarians - opium for the enlightened pagan rusich ... ay-ay-ay ... what a mistake !!! Back to paganism, to Perun and Dazhdbog!
        1. vadimN
          vadimN 16 October 2012 11: 15
          +3
          Quote: aleksey
          Back to paganism, to Perun and Dazhdbog!


          Before you show sarcasm, you should at least read something about Russian paganism, Vedism ... A much brighter, more humane and harmonious faith with nature and humanity! It is faith, not religion.

          And about Russia and Russia, I recommend reading Khomyakov's book "Russia against Russia" (you can easily find it on the internet). The book is not indisputable, but logical and explains many historical inconsistencies.
          1. aleksey
            aleksey 16 October 2012 12: 20
            0
            Quote: vadimN
            Before showing sarcasm, you should at least read something about Russian paganism, Vedism ...

            ... magism, occultism, etc. (sorry, I could not resist) .. that’s exactly the respected one that he read and MADE. The question of faith is purely personal, worship the sun, stones, cornflowers, not yours and your Creator
  12. mongoose
    mongoose 15 October 2012 12: 52
    +2
    Russophobes Dolboslavs defecate again! Ali are just Jews
    1. Fox 070
      Fox 070 15 October 2012 13: 39
      0
      Quote: mongoose
      Russophobes Dolboslavs defecate again! Ali are just Jews

      This post is repeated for you on many branches without changes. What do you have nothing more to say. Or do you pray like that? Like in that joke:
      A man sits in a theater and repeats
      - I don't fart, I don't fart ...
      And suddenly I gasped.
      - It's not me, it's not me.

      So you ...
      1. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 21
        -3
        why say something else? what do you ..you worship?
      2. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 20: 29
        -1
        n-dya, did not try to wash Phoex? smacks of
        1. Fox 070
          Fox 070 15 October 2012 20: 47
          0
          Quote: Yoshkin Cat
          n-dya, did not try to wash Phoex? smacks of

          I tried not to hurt you much, given your advanced age and poor health. After our last skirmish, you were frankly not in the best shape. I’m just warning you that it’s not worth hitting me, everything can happen again, but I would not want to burden my conscience with your poor state, so just keep quieting your minuses and don’t touch me. hi
          1. mongoose
            mongoose 16 October 2012 13: 08
            +1
            baby, like you, I'm still chasing peaks
  13. taseka
    taseka 15 October 2012 14: 07
    +7
    "It is very good that this initiative comes from the church. The ROC is the only legal institution in our society that officially considers itself Russian."
    1. Fox 070
      Fox 070 15 October 2012 14: 47
      -2
      Quote: taseka
      The Russian Orthodox Church is the only legal institution in our society that officially considers itself Russian "

      To consider yourself a Russian church does not mean to be one.
      1. consul
        consul 15 October 2012 15: 27
        +1
        To consider yourself a Russian church does not mean to be one
        -It was such and will be, regardless of your opinion
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_xl25hHJD0&feature=player_embedded
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 15 October 2012 21: 25
          +1
          Your opinion doesn't mean anything either. They said for 70 years that the Russian Orthodox Church sucks, and everyone nodded. 20 years say the opposite - and you nod. Because now this is the "trend" of the "tandem" since the time of the traitor-Yeltsin laughing What will you "sing" when you change the government?
          And for me, a Russian, there is no need to call such an atavism of the past as religion, the word "Russian". Call it "Russian" - and it will be historically true! After all, this is the Vatican Church that is what Russia called laughing
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 15 October 2012 21: 29
      0
      Pi.pec! Victim of the exam? laughing
      Nowadays they don't teach at school that it was the ROC that replaced "Rus" and "Russian" with "Russia", "Russians", "Russian"?
  14. columbus2
    columbus2 15 October 2012 15: 05
    -8
    Again "friendship of peoples"? No thanks, we have already passed.
    1. zh1
      zh1 15 October 2012 16: 03
      +2
      Not nations, but nations. One people.
  15. Egoza
    Egoza 15 October 2012 15: 36
    +3
    The most interesting thing is that both sides are right. We know many examples of the patriotism of REAL priests and we do not respect those who have turned FAITH into a source of profit. You know, when it comes to the Russian Orthodox Church, I always remember one line from the play "Lyubov Yarovaya" (about revolutionary times). There the professor, looking at the revolutionary sailor, says: "I see the flame of faith in my eyes, but others did not have it." That's how it is here. Yes, there are priests who have "the flame of faith in their eyes." And people are drawn to such. For example, we have an Orthodox church in the memory of which an orphanage was created. All surrounding villages help this church. They tried to close the orphanage. And then the head of the church adopted all the children so that they would not be taken to an orphanage in Lviv. How many attacks there are from representatives of Greek Catholics, Catholics, nationalists. And people defend their church, and their father, and the orphanage. Do you think it is easy for them to defend the Orthodox faith? For Ukraine, it is very important to preserve the Orthodox faith. And even though in some churches the priests speak Ukrainian, but the service is held in Church Slavonic. Because this is the Church of the Moscow Patriarchate! I understand why the ROC is talking about the unification of the Russian people. After all, the slightest attempts to unite the three peoples are immediately met with a fierce rebuff - "The ROC is the hand of Moscow! They want to enslave us! The Ruska Church is an agent of the KGB," and so on. And priests are just people, and like all people they have their shortcomings, including the sin of money-grubbing. But if the unification succeeds ... let them first unite, and then repent of their sins.
    By the way, I want to remind you that during the Second World War there were priests who helped the partisans, and after the war they were awarded government awards "bloody Stalin", and there were those who met the Nazis with bread and salt.
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 15 October 2012 16: 07
      -1
      Quote: Egoza

      The most interesting thing is that both sides are right.

      You are absolutely right !!!
      Uniting is vital. Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are one people!
      But what has to do with the "Jewish epic" and "fairy tales about Jewish homeless people" named by the apostles.
      And what does the sect of obsessed not Christian Jews have to do with it?
      They feed on us, the people. They need us for feeding.
      How is it not possible to understand ??? !!!
      1. gojesi
        gojesi 15 October 2012 18: 13
        0
        Quote: GG2012
        They feed on us, the people. They need us for feeding.

        ... the most terrible thing is that in addition to material, physical, so to say, food, we feed them with energy, field food ... Look, the Russians have absolutely no spirit left ... Black does everything to them and they only answer or hysteria or silent ... When I was young, I am afraid that everything was different ...
        They bleed us at the energy level ... This is really a disaster !!!
        1. vadimN
          vadimN 15 October 2012 19: 05
          +1
          Quote: gojesi
          the worst thing is that in addition to material, physical food, so to speak, we feed them energetic food,
          1. saveall
            saveall 15 October 2012 21: 32
            +1
            vadimN,
            "From proud Russians to damned slaves"
            Yes, this can only be fasted by a person who is poorly aware of his own history and wildly hating Russia ... Well, or a moron ...
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 15 October 2012 21: 37
              -1
              Quote: saveall
              Yes, this can only be fasted by a person who is poorly aware of his own history and wildly hating Russia ... Well, or a moron ...

              Do you know the story well? Judging by your post, you skipped more and more ... Well, or were treated ... bully
            2. vadimN
              vadimN 16 October 2012 11: 19
              +1
              Quote: saveall
              poorly knowledgeable person


              The story is official and real. You see a good connoisseur of official history. And even for obvious absurdities and inconsistencies in it for this reason you do not see and do not want to see. Learn history from primary sources, not from school books ...
          2. mongoose
            mongoose 17 October 2012 09: 40
            -1
            about how Russophobe VadimN spat splendidly in the holy defenders of the Russian land Alexander Nevsky, Ushakov, Peresvet and Oslyabyu, and hundreds of thousands, millions of Orthodox Christians who died defending Russia!
            1. vadimN
              vadimN 17 October 2012 13: 11
              +1
              Mongoose, you say this to the officer who devoted his life to serving Russia and remaining, no matter what, a patriot of his country. Do not distort the meaning and stop insults! This is a favorite trick of those who cannot answer with arguments ...., as well as throwing to extremes.
              By the way, in addition to Orthodox Christians, atheists, and Catholics, and Gentiles, and Muslims, and Buddhists gave their lives for Russia ... Monopolizing faith within the framework of Orthodoxy, you spit on them! I am not against Orthodoxy, I am against monopoly and imposition.
              1. vadimN
                vadimN 18 October 2012 16: 52
                +2
                Quote from the site http://tvoyhram.ru/

                "Everyone must choose his own path to God, so that there is no doubt about the correctness of the path. And it is good if on this path you meet a fellow traveler, and not a guide for whom you blindly follow and in the end the result disappoints you. Because you have been walking for many years. not where you need to, but where you were taken, which means that this is not your way.

                To know yourself, to know where you are, there are two most important questions that should be answered. It is your task to understand all this. In fact, if someone gives you the correct answer, it will not mean anything to you, since everything said in it will not apply to you as it would be yours, you find this answer yourself. If you find the answers to these questions, you will do most of your duty to yourself. After that, your task will be to live in accordance with the Divine Law, which will open to you after this stage, before your departure.

                Therefore, the Vedic Tradition is close to me in that it does not deny the coming of Christ, Buddha, and others to earth, but not as God, but as a teacher who was sent to give us knowledge, does not contradict any of the religions, since it gives complete freedom, Man he himself has the right to choose His Path. "
      2. Fox 070
        Fox 070 15 October 2012 18: 19
        -1
        Quote: GG2012
        They feed on us, the people. They need us for feeding.
      3. shiginnikolai
        shiginnikolai 15 October 2012 18: 23
        0
        "Jewish epic" and "fairy tales about Jewish homeless people" named by the apostles.
        And what does the sect of obsessed not Christian Jews have to do with it?

        Thick
      4. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 23
        -2
        n-dya, did you screw your tail to the rabbi?
    2. Yoshkin Kot
      Yoshkin Kot 15 October 2012 19: 23
      -1
      Yeah, you say the flame of faith? faith in what? into class segregation of society? in genocide? robberies?
  16. Lesorub
    Lesorub 15 October 2012 18: 37
    +3
    "Over the years (years of Soviet rule) in the USSR, a single community was formed - the Soviet people. " - From a report at the XXN Congress of the CPSU ...
    Where is he now -SOViet people ???
    Let them hold a REFERENDUM in post-Soviet states ...
    As people decide, so politicians MUST act!
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 15 October 2012 21: 14
      -1
      So already carried out. The people chose the USSR. Only the opinion of the people did not care.
      1. mongoose
        mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 15
        +1
        only that the people did not defend the USSR, unlike RI
        1. aleksey
          aleksey 16 October 2012 10: 17
          +1
          mongoose, bravo, iron argument ... the so-called "white officer" for 4 years tried to protect Russia from the infection of Bolshevism. And after the collapse of the USSR, a timid attempt by the State Emergency Committee and everyone rushed to plunder the country and "chop the cabbage" ... Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the products of communism, they got a miserable role in history
        2. s1н7т
          s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 37
          -2
          I do not remember from history that the people defend RI. The people passed it, as did the Union later.
          1. mongoose
            mongoose 17 October 2012 09: 42
            0
            and who squeaked about the "gold-chasers"? and a descendant of the Judeo-Bolsheviks?
  17. iwind
    iwind 15 October 2012 18: 47
    0
    I used to be generally positive towards the ROC, but what is happening now is horror.
    But how to explain this here http://newsmsk.com/article/17Aug2012/voditel.html.
    Or "Discussion of the cars of priests lead a person away from God" - Patriarch Kirill- That is, it is not your business to discuss the celestials.
  18. darkman70
    darkman70 15 October 2012 19: 30
    +3
    That's interesting. It seems that a good initiative of the Orthodox Church, the more so, as the author of the article correctly points out, Orthodoxy has always been a connecting factor for our peoples, resulted in a discussion of insults to Orthodoxy from some users who seemed to be on duty in these topics. The clergy were the first to take a real step towards the unification of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. And it doesn’t matter if he is successful or not. A start. Is that why certain comrades are so active in this thread? After all, it would seem, what difference does the patriarch wear atheist, Jew or pagan? (I, for example, as an atheist, don’t give a damn about that) So no, it is obligatory in every topic where Orthodoxy is heard there are spitting and insults to the Russian Orthodox Church. The non-Orthodox people are very worried about how the Orthodox patriarch is doing there.)
    I will not remember Brzezinski, but I remember the times when western Ukraine and Belarus were part of Poland. The first thing the Poles did was to forcibly catholicize the local Orthodox population. They probably also sang that the patriarch was bad. What it turned out for the unity of the Russian people probably does not need to be reminded.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 15 October 2012 21: 11
      -6
      And how did the "exorcism" end for many thousands of Russians, too?
    2. vadimN
      vadimN 16 October 2012 11: 25
      +1
      Quote: darkman70
      The clergy were the first to take a real step towards the unification of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. And it doesn’t matter if he is successful or not.


      A very controversial argument! It is very important what the reaction will be and what actions will follow. Any word spoken on such a significant topic will bring either recognition or doubt ... Even the right word, spoken at the wrong time and in the wrong environment, plays a negative role. My personal opinion is that the initiative of the Russian Orthodox Church is untimely. It will not lead to anything and will only evoke an opinion characterized by one word "empty flaws". Pay attention - not a single official source even began to comment on this news, because they understand that it is not the time and not really now ...
  19. Bashkaus
    Bashkaus 15 October 2012 20: 20
    +1
    So, at some point I scored on everything that is written here. I want to sum up the results.
    There are people for whom Orthodoxy is an integral part of life. There are people who sympathize with Christian views. There are those who are neutral and there are those who are negative about it.
    As for the latter, I can say that reading their statements gives the impression that they never held the Bible in their hands. They are trying to aggressively throw out phrases taken from the context, although they have no idea what exactly they are talking about.
    Moreover, reading the Bible even 10 times is not enough. It is necessary to read the teachings of the holy fathers and the interpretation to understand the deepest meaning.
    I honestly feel ashamed of such clever people, they hear a ringing, and do not know where he is.
    1. Fox 070
      Fox 070 15 October 2012 20: 58
      +1
      Quote: Bashkaus
      reading their statements one gets the impression that they never held the Bible in their hands.

      Well, why so, Sergei. And they read the Bible (and more than once), and are familiar with the interpretations of the "holy fathers". This is our, completely balanced decision, to remain a free Slav, and not to become a slave of a Jew.
      Quote: Bashkaus
      I’m honestly ashamed of such clever people,

      Let us be ashamed of ourselves. And then, I think that swearing and spoiling each other's mood about the Faith is not worth it, everyone chooses his own path to God and this, I think, is not a reason for a new crusade. We have one blood, and who was right about the Faith, let time judge. hi
      1. mongoose
        mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 17
        -1
        in the presentation of some kind of bogumil 45? nuthouse client?
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 15 October 2012 21: 09
      -6
      Pi.pec, a model of brainlessness! Learn to write in Russian without errors to begin with. Probably reading the same way? laughing Read better textbooks, the Bible will not replace them! laughing
    3. vadimN
      vadimN 16 October 2012 11: 29
      +3
      Quote: Bashkaus
      to read the Bible even 10 times is not enough. It is necessary to read the teachings of the holy fathers and the interpretation to understand the deepest meaning.


      And why is it so encrypted ?? The truth must be direct and understandable. And the Bible is built so that it would be possible to interpret it differently in relation to the needs of the moment ..

      But atheists are reading the Bible carefully and critically. Their eyes are not blinkered and they think according to logic, and not according to blind faith.
      An old anecdote from Soviet times: What is the difference between a believer and an atheist? The atheist reads the Bible carefully. "
      1. GG2012
        GG2012 16 October 2012 13: 18
        +4
        Quote: vadimN
        But atheists are reading the Bible carefully and critically.

        100500 +++
        Quote: vadimN
        Their eyes are not blinkered and they think according to logic, and not according to blind faith.

        Do you know why faith is called blind? Because it is an uncritical perception of information. Exactly!!! Non-critical perception !!!
        And intelligence is a critical perception of information.
        If you have small children, then you probably noticed that they perceive everything on faith. Faith is the primary stage of perception and development of consciousness. Later, when the child grows up, and the amount of perceived information stimulates the development of intelligence, Intellect gradually turns on. And faith, like milk teeth, must fall away, cease to exist, as having fulfilled an evolutionary function and give way to intellect.
        But among believers, this function (faith) continues to function. As a result of this, people with this function are prone to an inferior non-critical perception of information and the world around them.
        And if we add to this the territory of birth / residence, Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists, ... and so on are obtained from such people.
        The maximalism and fanaticism with which believers prove their "convictions" shows that the religious information they perceive through the function of faith is of an absolute / imperative nature (beyond doubt). Hence such incontinence, irascibility, tendency to inadequate aggression. History bears witness to this.
        In short, faith is a developmental delay. And with this delay, people can live their whole lives without realizing their injury.
        Unfortunately, there are many such people.
        Smart Jews have long noticed this property. And they used it 100%. So all Abrahamic religions were created.

        In nature, everything is balanced.
        Each internal human defect has its own external expression.
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 35
          +1
          Aw, kid! +100500!
          But I don’t know how to talk with morons - I immediately want to drop into the snout.
  20. dmb
    dmb 15 October 2012 20: 24
    +5
    The theme has already sounded. Well, let's go in the second round. Everyone understands that normal people with skunks, after reading their revelations on the site, simply will not want to unite. Unlike Goyesi, I do not dispute the significant role of the Russian Orthodox Church in unification (although Chaplin, in my view, is an ordinary conjuncturer and his personal contribution to undermining the authority of the Church surpasses Pusek by an order of magnitude). But let's analyze his appeal. What is a union of peoples. In my understanding, this is the creation of a single state. Then what does Orthodoxy have to do with it? What Muslims and all sorts of different Buddhists with atheists we will not allow to solve this issue? Or we will separate them for a start, each in their own state. I can congratulate you. The often mentioned dark forces beyond the hill are just waiting for this. The massacre will, Somalia and the Sudan will envy. You can unite only on a social basis. The reasons for the impossibility to unite me were given in the comments to the previous similar article, laziness is repeated.
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 15 October 2012 21: 43
      +1
      Quote: dmb
      Chaplin, in my opinion, is an ordinary conjuncturist and a personal contribution made by him to undermine the authority of the Church surpasses Pusek by an order of magnitude).

      100500 +++
      Quote: dmb
      What is a union of peoples. In my understanding, this is the creation of a single state. Then what does Orthodoxy have to do with it?

      100500 +++
      So I say, this call for unification carries the threat of civil war.
      What to do with Muslims, Buddhists? ... cut them out? or cut off a piece of the country? Or again baptize everyone by force?
      Quote: dmb
      You can unite only on a social basis.

      100500 +++
    2. mongoose
      mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 20
      0
      But what is the opinion of 80% of Russians (Little Russians and Belorussians) of which the lion's part is Orthodox Christians do not need to be taken into account? Moreover, among the foreigners, most Orthodox Christians. what should we give up our Faith in order to appease you? Muslims? Buddhists? ahh Jews! I guessed?
      1.  pistons
        pistons 16 October 2012 09: 37
        0
        This lion's share does not go to church, does not read prayers, does not keep the commandments, never took the Bible in her hands, and their faith is on the drum.

        Wearing a cross around your neck is just a fashion trend.
        Well, it is fashionable now to kick oneself in the chest with a hoof "I am Orthodox", especially among young people.
        Well, then these "Orthodox" go to eat vodka and beer in the doorway, fuck in the porches, shit in parks, beat random passers-by with a crowd,
        use foul language in transport, on the street, at home, in schools.

        Many people go through the ceremony of baptism, but units become Christians.
        1. mongoose
          mongoose 16 October 2012 13: 11
          0
          everyone has their own time to come to the temple, and if you are Russian and will come, and according to opinion polls, 80% of the population of Russia consider themselves Orthodox Christians, and only 6% are Muslims
  21. s1н7т
    s1н7т 15 October 2012 21: 02
    -3
    Everything is clear with the ROC JSC - they need good PR. We found a win-win idea, they will use it. However, on reflection - complete nonsense! In fact, nobody divided the people - they divided the territory. Hence the conclusion - the people do not need the services of the Russian Orthodox Church for "reunification". I am with relatives from Kotovsk and without them - relatives. But the territory is another question! But this no longer has anything to do with "one people", this is already international politics. Those. the prerogative of the state. Those. AO ROC has nothing to do with it. Maybe someone is engaged in the issues of "collecting Russian lands", and the AO ROC is promoting it. Like - everyone is looking for a national idea laughing But, what an idiocy - a forgotten relic of antiquity cannot serve as a "guiding star" to the future, since long ago he was in the past!
    And in terms of recreating at least a part of the Empire, I am in favor. Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia, Ukraine.
    Only without the ROC. Just in case, we have, besides the crazy "Orthodox", enough others.
  22. 12061973
    12061973 15 October 2012 21: 23
    +2
    look badly, this, which led 600 seconds.
    1. mongoose
      mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 21
      -3
      ordinary drunk drunk and zhurnishlyuh, besides a neopagan
  23. Husseyn
    Husseyn 15 October 2012 22: 54
    +4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3YnLOL-MCM

    Not all those who let the priests yushka were God-fighters, give them a chance and now these scavengers, sorry "gatherers of the Russian Land", the pillars will be decorated like garlands.
    Some clergymen, those in turbaned jackets, have blown up each other because of grandmothers, others who have robbed each other in robes, but all together they want to take us away and teach life.

    The funniest thing is that in the army of a secular state, the officers of the unit, where the commander and even more than a third of the Muslims, brought a "priest" so that he sprinkled the system and with a clever look told how to beat the basurman, remembering the monks soldiers, etc. The poor fellow sat in a galosh when asked why the Orthodox Don Cossacks fought for a long time on the side of the Horde against Prince Dmitry (Dmitry Donskoy) and the Polovtsi ...

    1. mongoose
      mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 22
      -2
      oh how a Jew sausages,
      are you talking about a view? get it in full
    2. aleksey
      aleksey 16 October 2012 10: 36
      +1
      well, you frankly surprised .. where are the Horde, Don and Polovtsy, and where are Don Cossacks, I mean, in time. The Horde’s troops clearly mention the Genoese, Yasses, Circassians, the Lithuanian prince and the Ryazan prince were going to help them, and the Don Cossacks, dear, is a completely different story ...
  24. v53993
    v53993 15 October 2012 23: 26
    0
    Russia will be cleansed of corruption and will be Great. Behind her, Truth and Spirituality. Everything else is from the evil one.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 16
      +1
      I wonder - who is this "filth", what is the essence of "truth" and what is "spirituality"? laughing
      It seems that you are quoting someone without understanding the essence.
  25. Dipsy
    Dipsy 16 October 2012 00: 23
    0
    GG2012,
    stop already tearing
    rejoice that at least someone is doing at least something for the Slavic world
    we are one in blood, in spirit and faith.
    too many repulsive factors to refuse something
    1. mongoose
      mongoose 16 October 2012 08: 24
      -2
      this is what they are afraid of, besides the Jews clearly want Ukraine to have a place for them, they are now actively cleaning it up, they will have to dump the poor people from the Middle East, and if Russia reunites, they will have no place to run to
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 20
      -1
      Again stupidity, excuse me! Russia, created on the outskirts of the Slavic world, was not purely Slavic! At the heart of Kievan Rus, the Slavs generally were within 30%! Or do you want to create something new, purely Slavic? Unpromising business. You will find few pure Slavs laughing
      1. mongoose
        mongoose 17 October 2012 09: 50
        0
        type you my friend believe in the Khazar origin? noticeably, noticeably, now your natural Russophobia and passion for alternative
  26. Magadan
    Magadan 16 October 2012 00: 57
    +5
    Quote: gojesi
    but not under the auspices of Orthodoxy! Killers, liars and compilers from the beginning

    Probably the 20th century, when they decided to destroy all the priests and according to Darwin’s teachings, immediately became peaceful and philanthropic? Probably the Lenin-Trotskyist international did not destroy millions in the Civil, what after it? Probably Saints Fedor Ushakov, Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy were also murderers and liars
    .
    Quote: S_mirnov
    Killers from the Russian Orthodox Church? yes please, pop Gapon, for example, the names of any scum that collaborated with the Nazis, frankly, even looking for reluctance, it is a pity.

    Well, you can still remember Judas Iscariot. And to say that the whole Church is Judas Iscariots. Can you imagine what a wondrous philosophy will turn out? It will be even worse than if, speaking of the feat of the Soviet people during the War, with a proud air, we bring General Vlasov and the crowd of "Hilfers".

    Quote: GG2012
    Come here, you are our ignorant: http://gusaram.narod.ru/mrak_pop_pedofil.html

    You know how many Internet pages I can compose in a day? I wonder if you, referring to all sorts of photos, videos, etc., do not admit the thought that all the hired actors are playing? Maybe, in your opinion, "Hour of Judgment" is also removed from the real courtroom?
    Quote: c1n7
    The Russian Orthodox Church never played any positive role in the history of Russia.

    Thanks for the opportunity to give examples:
    1. Holy Prince Alexander Nevsky.
    2. Holy Prince Mikhail of Chernigov. In the horde he declared himself to the Orthodox khans and refused to bow to idols. He was tortured, but the Tatars thought about the strength of the Russian spirit and decided instead of a war of extermination to look for other compromises.
    3. The Holy Prince Dmitry Donskoy, blessed to battle by Sergius of Radonezh and the monk Peresvet, who killed Chelubey, which instilled the army faith in Victory
    4. Patriarch Germogen, who in 1612 called on the people to revolt against the Poles and traitors in the Kremlin. He was tortured by hunger. At the same time, the monks defended Sergius Lavra near Moscow, fettered the main forces of the Poles.
    Enough for a start, I don’t want to write 5 pages of text. I will especially come back on this topic and look forward to your examples of heroes-atists and other pagans who have brought similar benefits to the fatherland.
    I also appealed to the masters of the atheists a thousand times to give me examples of great scientists who were unbelievers. Only please, the level of Pascal, Newton, Einstein, Lomonosov, etc. I do not need different philosophers, encyclopedists and legal managers. .
    1. Husseyn
      Husseyn 16 October 2012 12: 30
      +1
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1
      %8F_%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%85%D0%B8%D1%8F
      For general development.
      The affairs of anyone will be judged on the Day of Judgment, Those who know both the secret and the manifest, then we will see both saints and liars.
  27. Dimka off
    Dimka off 16 October 2012 10: 01
    +2
    yeah, I see the enemies of Orthodoxy as there were so many there are. But this mockery of him only affirms my belief that Orthodoxy is the pure Truth given by God to people. Many spoke words against Orthodoxy, but where are they? long fed worms. But the Church of Christ and the gates of hell will not prevail, and the Lord said this.

    There is nothing stronger than the Church of Christ. Anyone who wants to fight her will inevitably ruin their forces: it’s the same as taking up arms against the war against Heaven. St. John Chrysostom.
    I would like to wish admonition to everyone who goes against Orthodoxy.

    but at the expense of reunification: we, the disconnected Russian people, will be together for any reason. And we will have one faith - Orthodoxy.
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 16 October 2012 10: 54
      0
      Quote: Dimka off
      we disunited Russian people will be together anyway.

      I agree with you 100%. We must connect.
      Quote: Dimka off
      And we will have one faith - Orthodoxy.

      You with your Jewish "faith" only speak for yourself.
      You have lost your natural identity and now you are no longer a Slav (not Russian, not Ukrainian, not Belarusian)
      You are not up to the Jews! Transit creature! The creature of the transition from a Slav to a Jew!
      There is no power in you! But in you there is a trick and treachery. Natural Jewish qualities.
      Therefore, people like you cannot answer directly and with dignity, but can only minus on small "from around the corner". Thus expressing your inferiority complex and fear of our Slavic strength.

      Quote: Dimka off
      yeah, I see the enemies of Orthodoxy as there were so many there are.

      Yes at your Judas many opponents. This suggests that your false and false religion has a very limited number of supporters, with dark brains from medieval soot and cobwebs.
      Jewish spiders densely settled in your soul, therefore, a Jew speaks in you.
      Quote: Dimka off
      I would like to wish admonition
      May the light of enlightenment be with you!

      And one more very important note.
      Such a number of heated verbal battles between the enlightened and the "Judas", suggests that Christianity (Judoslavia) cannot be a spiritual and unifying platform in the world and in the NEW RUSSIAN EMPIRE.
    2. vadimN
      vadimN 16 October 2012 11: 41
      +4
      Quote: Dimka off
      we disunited Russian people will be together anyway. And we will have one faith - Orthodoxy


      Dear, but to those Russian people who are atheists or profess other religions, but at the same time remain true patriots of your country, do you refuse the right to be called Russian and live in unity?
      1. GG2012
        GG2012 16 October 2012 12: 50
        -1
        Quote: vadimN
        Do you deny the right to be called Russian and live in unity?

        The Russian person also has Russian filling.
        У Dimka off Today, 10:01 AM Jewish filling, and therefore divides the Slavs by the Jewish measure. This is a sign of loss of natural self-identification.
      2. s1н7т
        s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 26
        -2
        These - refuse. Either it is necessary to write (for money), or fanatics. The latter must simply be isolated from society.
    3. s1н7т
      s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 23
      0
      Quote: Dimka off
      pure Truth given by God to people.

      ______________
      So what is the "truth" ?! Maybe I missed something? laughing
      This makes no sense.
  28. mongoose
    mongoose 16 October 2012 13: 14
    +3
    Gentlemen, we did witness tantrums among unchristians! Look how jarring it is! From the fact that Russia will reunite
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 16 October 2012 13: 42
      +2
      Quote: mongoose
      Gentlemen, we did witness tantrums among unchristians! Look how jarring it is!

      Ndya! You can’t adequately and reasonably answer !!!
      Intelligence is only enough for shortcuts and groans!
      You feel your "scale" of personality!
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 32
        0
        A "personality" of this magnitude can be addressed with a small letter, in my opinion laughing
        For, as one sergeant of mine (from Kazakhstan) said, "if a person died, this is for a long time, if a fool is forever" laughing
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 16 October 2012 21: 29
      +1
      Gee! And what is "Rus"? Can you indicate the boundaries of this state, within which it is reunited?))) How many half-educated there are! Especially among the "patriots")))
  29. Magadan
    Magadan 17 October 2012 01: 29
    0
    Quote: GG2012
    You with your Jewish "faith" only speak for yourself.

    There is a huge difference between the Old Testament Church and the Jewish faith. We, the Orthodox, have nothing to do with the latter. If you are jarred by the thought that Abraham, King David, the Mother of God and the Apostles were Jews, there is nothing to be done, you have strong anti-Jewish motives, such as "beat the Jews, save Russia." It's sad that you have such hatred for Jews. If you say that we preach Judaism, then this is utter nonsense. The elite of the then rulers and ministers of the Church betrayed and crucified Christ, knowing perfectly well Who He is. They crucified because fantasized for themselves a certain "king", to-ry Israel will make a world kingdom, and their personally godfathers and rich. After the Crucifixion, they were left without God, because themselves refused him. They began to pervert the Old Testament Church itself. Our priests say that there is practically nothing in common of present Judaism with the Old Testament, except for some external signs. The whole inner life, the whole meaning of Faith, has long been perverted.
    Therefore, we are not a "Jewish" religion. For association, take again the traitor General Vlasov. Now try to call him a shining example of our victorious people. You will get about the same thing between Christianity and that very Jewish elite, preoccupied with money, power and all sorts of secret abominations, and called by the people "Jews".
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 17 October 2012 09: 31
      +1
      Thank you for your attention to my remarks and thank you for a balanced style of communication (that is, without screaming, curses, and hanging tags).

      Quote: Magadan
      There is a huge difference between the Old Testament Church and the Jewish faith. To the last we, the Orthodox, have nothing to do.


      We have the most direct relationship. Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ga-Nozri) was an adherent of the radical course of Judaism. He professed the Talmud (Old Testament). Christ held an extremely negative attitude towards the Gentiles. The New Testament, created on the basis of the Old Testament, especially for non-Jews.
      Matthew 15_ 22-28:
      “And now, the woman of the Canaanite woman, coming out of those places, shouted to him: Lord have mercy on me, son of David, my daughter is cruelly mad. But he did not answer her a word. And His disciples, having entered, asked Him: Let her go, because he cries for us. He answered and said: I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And she, coming up, bowed to Him and said: Lord! Help me. He said in response: it is not good to take the bread from the children and toss the PSAM. She said: Lord! But the dogs also eat the crumbs that fall from the table of their masters. ”
      Only after these words did Jesus say to her, “Great is your faith,” and healed her daughter.


      Quote: Magadan
      There is a huge difference between the Old Testament Church and the Jewish faith.

      Magadan,
      No difference. Everything is the same in content, but not much different in form. This is explained by the audience under which each book was written.
      I draw your attention to the following fact: Just as the Jews contemptuously and aggressively treated the Gentiles, so the "Christians" refer to the non-believers.

      Quote: Magadan
      If you are hurt by the thought that Abraham, King David, the Virgin, and the Apostles were Jews,

      I don't care who they were. I am categorically not satisfied that these "Honored Jews" became saints for the Slavs who were led in Christianity. As a result, the Slavs lost their natural self-identification.
      A Jew has a Jewish soul - this is normal.
      The Slav converted to Christianity, the soul is also Jewish - this is not normal !!!

      Quote: Magadan
      you have strong anti-Jewish motives, such as "beat the Jews, save Russia." It's sad that you have such hatred for Jews.

      I have no hatred of the Jews! And it never was!
      In my statements, I use the term "Jew" and don't use terms "Jew", "Jew". They are not the same thing. You should know this.
  30. GG2012
    GG2012 17 October 2012 09: 33
    +3
    Continued ...
    In my opinion, Christianity does not have the right to be called Orthodox!
    Christianity is based on the personal cult of an outstanding Jew - Christ. All prayers and all life stories of the "apostles" and of Christ himself are dedicated to the praise and exaltation of the cult of the Great Jew Christ.
    Therefore, Christianity is Judaism, not Orthodoxy.
    There is nothing Orthodox in Christianity.
    This confirms the commentary of the outstanding theoretician of Christianity Baskaus

    Quote: Bashkaus
    Let's start with the fact that Adam enacted the law and was deservedly expelled from heaven having committed a sin.
    Further, for this misconduct, the entire human race was excommunicated from God and no longer belonged to it. God felt sorry for the dying people and he sent his son Jesus Christ, who with his blood atoned for the sin of all mankind since Adam.
    Therefore, our forgiveness of this sin is in the hands of Jesus, in fact, we are his slaves and he has the right to forgive us our personal sin or not, and therefore must fulfill his will in order to atone for his guilt. If the slave conscientiously fulfills his work (fulfilling the law of God of the 10 commandments), God forgives him and makes him a free man. This is a pious Christian who already prays and asks not to be forgiven of sin, but asks to receive something from God. But if a Christian succeeds in virtues by being free, then at some point he begins to do good for others for the good itself, and not for his own sake. This is already called the son of man, in our country it is the saints who have the gifts to do miracles.
    These are, as it were, the basics of why believers call themselves slaves. But for us, who did not repent of their sins, it would be foolish to call ourselves sons of men, we all owe God that he atoned for our sins with his blood. We owe him.


    In my deep conviction, Christianity cannot be the spiritual foundation of the state.
    Christianity, like any religion, should be legislatively strictly limited and do not interfere with education, government activities.
    The choice of this or that religion is an individual choice of each person, and not "built in a column" and went to "a temple, mosque, synagogue, etc."
    1. mongoose
      mongoose 17 October 2012 09: 52
      -1
      Do you know where you can stick your opinion? Enemy of the Russian People? Yes, you guessed it!
      1. GG2012
        GG2012 17 October 2012 10: 40
        +3
        Quote: mongoose
        Do you know where you can stick your opinion? Enemy of the Russian People? Yes, you guessed it!


        Quote: GG2012
        I draw your attention to the following fact: Just as the Jews contemptuously and aggressively treated the Gentiles, so the "Christians" refer to the non-believers.

        Q.E.D!!!
  31. Mishael
    Mishael 17 October 2012 13: 51
    0
    Whatever the church and its ministers (followers, admirers) - the business offers good. Now I really would unite. Which of the priests is good, who is bad, you can figure it out later.
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 17 October 2012 15: 38
      +2
      Quote: Mishael
      Whatever the church and its ministers

      Thanks to those who are indifferent, and by the way, there are many of you, and the Jewish Church is holding on. After all, you do not care.
      Tomorrow you will be asked to sign up for Islam or in the Church of Euthanasia, and you will say why not to sign up, because I do not care.
      And sign up. And then on the Internet you will scribble indifferent comments.
      Yes? Mr. Everything Equal?
      1. Mishael
        Mishael 17 October 2012 16: 48
        0
        As for your personal opinion - yes, I do not care. I thought that we were discussing the author’s article, and all that you think about religions in general and the Russian Orthodox Church in particular is in PM.
  32. Magadan
    Magadan 18 October 2012 01: 32
    +1
    Quote: GG2012
    Just as the Jews were contemptuous and aggressive towards the Gentiles, so the "Christians" are towards the non-believers.

    Nothing like this. Christians believe that the pagan Socrates is essentially a Christian, because having no information about the Creator, in fact he himself came to His understanding. In the same way, Christians speak of all other people who, outwardly, though not Christians, outwardly, in spirit, in conscience, confess God and chew on God. And vice versa, the Pharisees are convicted in every way - i.e. those who ostentatiously behave like believers, but essentially spiritually dead
    Quote: GG2012
    I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And she, coming up, bowed to Him and said: Lord! Help me. He said in response: it is not good to take the bread from the children and toss the PSAM.

    A great example! The daughter of the Canaanite woman was healed, and moreover, Christ rebukes the "believers" around him, who externally believers and are contemptuous of the Gentiles. He says it for them and exactly as they would say it. And then heals faith Canaanites. And besides, it shows how important humility human example of the Canaanite. Humility is the basis of Orthodoxy.

    Quote: GG2012
    in fact, we are his slaves and he has the right to forgive us our personal sin or not, and therefore must fulfill his will in order to atone for his guilt

    The terrible opinion that came from Catholics and Protestants. Simplified to insanity perception of God. According to Orthodoxy, God is Love and ONLY Love. You cannot atone for sins with any physical things or deeds. Christ atone for you if you trying sincerely change your state of mind. Example: who is to blame for your death if you got drunk into the electrical panel, breaking the lock, and knowing full well that you will be electrocuted there? Maybe the electrician is to blame? It's the same with the soul. Here is, for example, a pedophile. He is sausage from all sorts of bestial desires. This "raskolbas" became his essence. He still satisfies these abominations, this inner burning sensation through the body, while the body lives. Like a drug addict who injects himself and rests for a while. The question is: where will this emotional "raskolbas" go when the body is gone? So, this burning sensation, this vile need does not disappear anywhere, but becomes millions of times stronger, since the body is no longer there and the perception of feelings is not dulled by anything. And there is nothing to satisfy this muck, this "raskolbas", tk. the body is gone!
    There you have it. Where a man sent himself of his own free will.
    So, Christ's forgiveness comes from your repentance and your willingness to fight for your soul. For her condition. Sins have already been atoned for, but man's will to accept this atonement is needed. Those. "don't want to be drug addict (pedophile, homosexual, etc.) "Next comes the struggle, where you get up, then fall, and then it is the Will of God when you are accepted - fallen or rebelled. There are no any" pleasures of God "through deeds," merits " , things, etc. There is NO and cannot be. All your deeds are needed only for yourself, to consolidate the good skills of the soul.

    Unfortunately, we have strong cliches and stereotypes imposed from school. Now God "sits in a cloud", then He has a beard, etc. That land is "according to Christianity on four turtles." Whatever the militant atheists have come up with, I am amazed at their imaginations.