Military Review

Turkey vs Syria: the balance of power

234
The first days of October brought sad news from the Middle East. It all started when artillery shells allegedly fired by Syria fell on the territory of Turkey. The Turks responded with full-fledged shelling. Over the following days, the situation repeated itself several times: someone from the Syrian territory launches several shells, after which Turkey inflicts a fire attack on the positions of the Syrian troops. The Turks motivate this choice of purpose by the fact that only the armed forces of Syria can encroach on them. Why are the military guilty or appointed guilty rather than the rebels? There is no official answer, but there are some political assumptions. Immediately after the start of artillery duels, the Turkish leadership broke out into militant rhetoric in the direction of Damascus. It began to threaten a full-scale war, if the Syrian military did not stop shelling Turkey.


Many people believe that all these events with shelling too closely resemble a provocation by Syrian insurgents, conducted with the direct support of Ankara. In favor of this version are numerous statements of Damascus on caravans with weapons and ammunition going through the Turkish-Syrian border. In addition, it is worth considering one quite obvious fact: the administration of Bashar Assad, despite all the accusations of suppressing "civil liberties", still did not go crazy in order to seek the full-scale conflict with one of the strongest countries in the region. And yet, it seems, the shelling of the Turkish territories will not cease in the near future: if the version of the provocation of the rebels is correct, then it is advantageous for them to continue firing at Turkey until it declares war to Syria and helps to overthrow the hated Assad. Turkey, in turn, does not cease to express angry statements against Damascus and already demands that NATO help it in view of “regular attacks”. The Alliance, however, is in no hurry to organize an invasion of Syria, citing a number of difficult reasons, which seem to be reluctant to help Ankara in its political games. Nevertheless, the risk of a war beginning, even if without the participation of NATO forces, remains. Let us try to compare the forces of Turkey and Syria and predict the possible course and consequences of such a conflict.

(http://ru.salamnews.org)


Turkey

The total number of people in the Turkish armed forces exceeds half a million. Of these, approximately 150 000 people are civilian civilian employees. However, a large number of personnel, if necessary, can be mobilized, in reserve about 90 thousand people. About 38 thousand of them - the reserve of the first stage, which can enter service within a few days after the relevant order. The ground forces are the most numerous part of the Turkish armed forces. They serve almost four hundred thousand people. The NE structure has four field armies and a separate Cypriot grouping. The bases of the ground forces are evenly distributed throughout Turkey, while the corps belonging to the second field army are located closest to the Syrian border. In the three corps of each army, with the exception of 4, there are armored, motorized rifle, artillery, etc. brigade.

The armament of the Turkish Army is quite heterogeneous, both in the country of production and in age. For example, fighters of different parts can use German automatic rifles G3, produced under license, and others - "native" American M4A1. At the same time, newer weapons usually go to special forces. The same situation is observed with armored vehicles. In parts of the Turkish army there are still more than one and a half thousand American tanks M60 in various modifications, including self-modified machines. The newest tanks of the Turkish ground forces are the German Leopard 2A4, the number of which is approaching three and a half hundred. To move motorized rifles and direct fire support in battle, the Turkish army has a large number of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. For example, the M113 armored personnel carrier alone has nearly 3300 pieces, some of which are equipped as tank missile destroyers. The next largest is the ACV-300 family of armored vehicles, created and built in Turkey itself. Armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles of this family are available in the troops in a substantial amount - about two thousand units. Finally, in recent years, ground forces have received about one and a half thousand armored vehicles of the Akrep, Cobra, Kirpi models, etc. The information on the condition of small arms and light armored vehicles is also valid for the gendarmerie, a separate type of armed forces that is actually a kind of internal troops.

It is worth noting a wide range of missile and jet weapons intended for use in the ground forces. In addition to the captured or purchased Soviet RPG-7 grenade launchers (according to various estimates, at least five thousand), Turkish soldiers have anti-tank missile systems TOW, ERIX, MILAN, Cornet-E, Competition, etc. The number of all these ATGM systems equals several hundred and varies depending on the type. The most massive anti-tank in the Turkish army is a disposable grenade launcher HAR-66 - the licensed version of the American M72 LAW. To protect against attacks from the air, motorized infantry and infantry have portable missile systems FIM-92 Stinger, including the latest modifications. Until recently, the Turkish army had a certain number of Soviet Igla MANPADS, but recently they were completely removed from service.

The total number of field artillery in the Turkish armed forces exceeds 6100 units, among which there are guns of various types and calibers. The latter fluctuate within the 60-107 mm in the case of mortars and from 76 mm to 203 for guns and howitzers. The most powerful barrel armament of the Turkish army are M116 howitzers, purchased from the United States. Their caliber is equal to 203 millimeters, the total number of such guns is about one and a half hundred. Self-propelled artillery is represented by one and a half thousand installations carrying guns of caliber from 81 millimeter (self-propelled mortar M125A1) to 203 mm (self-propelled howitzer M110A2). As for rocket artillery, Turkey has succeeded markedly in this direction. Most of its MLRS, such as the T-22 or TOROS 230A installations, are self-made. However, there are also a number of US and Chinese volley fire systems in the troops.

Most anti-aircraft weapons - around 2800 units - are trunking systems. Anti-aircraft guns of various calibers are mainly of import origin: these are American installations M55, German Mk.20 Rh202 and Swedish guns from Bofors. The rest of the anti-aircraft artillery was produced in Switzerland at Oerlikon, or in Turkey under a Swiss license. In addition to the barreled anti-aircraft systems, the Turkish Army has approximately 250-th self-propelled anti-aircraft missile systems Atilgan and Zipkin carrying Stinger missiles.

Finally, the ground forces own their own aviation in the form of four hundred helicopters. Most of them - transport and passenger - are represented by the American UH-60 and UH-1H, as well as licensed versions of the Eurocopter Cougar. It is noteworthy that at present the Turkish army has only 30-35 attack helicopters. These are AH-1P Cobra and AH-1W Super Cobra, manufactured by Bell. For reconnaissance and other similar needs, the Turkish army has about one and a half hundred unmanned aerial vehicles of its own production.

The next type of troops - the air force. According to the views of recent years, it is on the Air Force that the main shock functions are assigned. Most likely, it is Turkish aircraft that will deliver the first blow to Syrian targets in the event of a full-scale conflict. Among other things, this version is confirmed by the composition of aviation equipment available to the Turkish Air Force. About sixty thousand personnel maintain and operate 800 aircraft for various purposes. The structure of the Turkish air force has four large formations - the aviation command. Two of them are aimed at direct operation of combat aircraft, and the remaining two are responsible for the training of personnel (Training Command in Izmir) and provision of supplies (Command of the rear in Ankara). In addition, separate teams of tankers and transport aircraft are directly subordinate to the headquarters of the Air Force.

The basis of the strike power of the Turkish Air Force are the American fighter-bombers F-16C and F-16D. In total, there are about 250 pieces. The second strike aircraft is also an American F-4 Fantom II of later modifications. It is worth noting that the number of these aircraft in the configuration of fighter-bombers is constantly decreasing. Currently, almost all of the existing 50-60 "Phantoms" converted into reconnaissance version. In the near future, about the same number of F-5 fighters will be left in the Air Force. There is no special bomber aircraft in the Turkish Air Force. The functions of long-range radar detection are currently provided by a small number of Spanish-made specially developed CN-235 aircraft, which also became the basis for reconnaissance and transport vehicles.

It is noteworthy that the transport aircraft of the Turkish Air Force has approximately the same “diversity” of types as the combat aircraft, however, it loses in total. For the transport of goods and passengers there are about 80 aircraft of the following types: the already mentioned CN-235, C-130 and C-160. In addition, for the transport tasks of the Air Force have the Cougar and UH-80U 1 helicopters.

The main method of aerial reconnaissance in the Turkish air force is the use of unmanned aerial vehicles. About 30-40 of the five types of aircraft purchased from abroad, from Israel and the United States. In addition, in the coming years, a number of UAI Anka UAVs will be produced.

Navy forces. Several centuries ago, the Turkish fleet was considered one of the most powerful in the world, but now it cannot be called so. In addition, not all the techniques of the Turkish Navy can be called sufficiently new and modern. For example, the newest of the six Turkish diesel-electric submarines built in Germany on the 209 project, began service in the late eighties. However, it is armed only with torpedoes and / or mines. Eight newer boats, the last of which was commissioned in 2007, are a further development of the same German project.

Similarly, the situation with frigates and corvettes. Thus, the frigates of the Yavuz and Barbaros projects are a corresponding refinement of the German type MEKO-200 and are built in the amount of eight. The Turkish types "Tepe" and "G" are actually American "Knox" and "Oliver Hazard Perry". Three and eight used ships of these projects were purchased from the USA. In turn, the six “B” type corvettes are the ships of the project D'Estienne d'Orves purchased from France. Admittedly, Turkey is trying to restore its own production of large warships. So, last fall, the first corvette of the MILGEM project was commissioned. In the near future several more similar ships will be built.

In addition to large ships, the Turkish Navy has a large number of boats for various purposes. These are about a hundred rocket boats of projects Kartal, Yildiz, etc., as well as four types of 13 patrol boats. Finally, the Turkish fleet has two dozen mine sweepers, 45 hovercraft and several dozen auxiliary vessels.

Maritime aviation in Turkey is small. These are six Italian and Turkish CN-235M patrol airplanes, as well as 26 helicopters. The latter are used for anti-submarine and rescue operations. The antisubmarine helicopter fleet consists of US-made Italian helicopters Agusta AB-204 and AB-212 (licensed Bell 204 and Bell 212, respectively), as well as Sikorsky S-70B2 assembled in the USA. Combat aircraft or helicopters in the Turkish Air Force are absent.

Finally, it is worth saying a few words about the gendarmerie and the coast guard. Formally, these organizations belong to the armed forces, but by the standards of other countries, they are internal troops and maritime border guard, respectively. The arming of the gendarmerie as a whole is similar to that used in motorized rifle troops. At the same time, on its bases one can still find, for example, modernized captured Soviet-made BTR-60 trophy. The Coast Guard has more than a hundred patrol boats and 14 type ships, whose displacement ranges from 20 to 1700 tons.

Syria

The Syrian army, at first glance, looks weaker than the Turkish. First of all, the difference in numbers is evident. The total number of troops in Syria slightly exceeds 320 thousand people. Approximately the same amount is in reserve and can be called up within a few weeks. As in Turkey, the largest part of the personnel belongs to the ground forces - about 220 thousand people. At the same time, do not forget about the results of the ongoing civil war in Syria. A part of the servicemen went over to the side of the rebels, taking with them some weapons. Also, a number of weapons and military equipment were destroyed during the fighting. Therefore, these figures refer to the start of the first collisions last year. An accurate calculation of the current state of the Syrian armed forces is understandable for obvious reasons.

Syrian ground forces are organizationally divided into three army corps, which include motorized rifle, armored and artillery divisions. In addition, there are several separate brigades in service of which are “special” weapons. First of all, separate brigades armed with short-range ballistic missiles and anti-ship missiles should be noted. Also, several separate brigades are allocated to perform special tasks by artillery, anti-tank missiles and airborne assault forces. Finally, the Syrian border troops are also separated into a separate brigade.

The main strike force of the Syrian armored troops are Soviet-made fighting vehicles T-55, T-62 and T-72. Their total number is almost five thousand units, more than a thousand of which are in storage. These tanks cannot be called fully modern, but with a proper approach to the interaction of troops, even outdated types can pose a certain threat to the enemy. In addition, it should be noted that almost all of the oldest T-55 are in storage for a long time, and the most massive tanks in the Syrian army are T-72, of which there are more than one and a half thousand. The number of other armored vehicles in the Syrian armed forces is almost equal to the number of tanks. In this case, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, etc. differ a little wide variety of types. For example, in the neighboring units, the old BTR-152 and the new BMP-3 can simultaneously serve. The total number of infantry fighting vehicles of three models (Soviet / Russian BMP-1, BMP-2 and BMP3) reaches two and a half thousand, and for armored personnel carriers this figure is one and a half thousand. The newest armored personnel carriers in the Syrian ground forces are the BTR-70, which, in combination with the number of armored vehicles for infantry, gives rise to certain thoughts about the selection of combat vehicles. It seems that Syrians prefer crawler vehicles with more firepower to wheeled vehicles.

Syria's field artillery is equipped with Soviet systems of various types and calibers in the number of 2500 guns. Approximately a fifth of all the guns is provided a self-propelled machines and 2S1 "Carnation" 2S3 "Acacia" and ACS 122 mm caliber on the basis of the T-34-85 and implements D-30, vaguely resembling the old Soviet SU-122. The rest of the artillery is towed. The most massive weapon in the Syrian army - the 130-mm howitzer M-46 - has at least 700 units. The second largest artillery system is the D-30 howitzer. Self-propelled and towed guns of this type are available in 550-600 units. Syria's rocket artillery has only two types of volley fire systems. These are the Soviet BM-21 “Grad” (about three hundred combat vehicles) and the Chinese “Type 63” (around 200 towed launchers).

The defense of troops on the march and in positions is assigned to military air defense. It has more than one and a half thousand barrel systems, including the Shilka self-propelled ZSU-23-4. In addition, a small number of short-range anti-aircraft missile systems, such as Osa-AK, Strela-1, or Strela-10, were assigned to units of military air defense. At the same time, the total number of air defense missile systems in the military defense is noticeably less than in individual air defense forces (about them a little later).

To combat the enemy’s armored targets, the Syrian soldiers have a fairly wide range of jet and rocket weapons. The easiest of them - RPG-7 rocket launchers and RPG-29 "Vampire" of Soviet production. The exact number of these systems is unknown, however, apparently, the score goes on at least hundreds. In this case, as practice shows, a considerable number of anti-tank grenade launchers were in the hands of insurgents. In addition to the relatively simple and cheap rocket launchers, Syria once bought a mass of Soviet anti-tank missile systems, from “Baby” to “Cornet”. The number of complexes varies considerably: “Tiny” at present, there are no more than a couple of hundred, “Kornets” - about a thousand. A few years ago, Syria acquired two hundred MILAN anti-tank systems from France, but due to political and economic reasons no further purchases of European weapons were made.

Separate missile brigades are armed with operational-tactical missile systems 9K72 "Elbrus" in its export version R-300, 9К52 "Luna-M" and 9-79 "Tochka". The total number of launchers of all three complexes exceeds 50 units. In addition, according to unconfirmed data, from 25 to 50 of R-300 and Luna-M complexes are in storage.

Syrian air forces are divided into several dozen squadrons, subject to the command of the kind of troops. These are 20 units equipped with fighters, interceptors, fighter bombers and reconnaissance aircraft; seven shock squadrons with front-line bombers; seven mixed helicopters (perform transport and impact tasks); five purely attack helicopters; four transport; as well as one training, one EW squadron, and one special helicopter unit for the transport of command. The total strength of the Syrian Air Force is 60 thousands of people. Another 20 thousand can be mobilized within a few weeks. The number of aircraft is estimated at 900-1000 units.

A characteristic difference between the Syrian air force and the Turkish military aircraft is the presence of a large number of specialized front-line attack aircraft. At present, Syrian pilots use Su-90М110 and Su-22МК around 4-24. In addition, over a hundred MiG-23 aircraft, including the BN modification, are in reserve or undergoing modernization. Syria's fighter aircraft is represented by old Soviet MiG-21 aircraft in a fighter and reconnaissance configuration (at least 150 vehicles, some in reserve); the already mentioned MiG-23; MiG-25 and MiG-25Р (up to 40 units); as well as relatively new MiG-29, the total number of which is estimated at 70-80 machines.

The Syrian Air Force helicopter fleet is represented by five types of helicopters. The most massive of them are the Mi-8 and its further development of the Mi-17. More than a hundred of such helicopters are used for transportation tasks, about ten more are equipped with electronic warfare equipment. Impact function assigned to the Soviet / Russian helicopters Mi-24, Mi-2 and French SA-342 Gazelle. The number of modified Mi-2 does not exceed one and a half to two dozen, the rest are in the number of 35-40 pieces each.

Syrian transport aviation uses seven types of aircraft, and some of them (about ten cars) are operated only for the transport of command. Troop transport, in turn, is carried out by one An-24 aircraft, six An-26 and four IL-76М. As a passenger board for the transport of high command are used Tu-134, Yak-40, Dassault Falcon 20 and Dassault Falcon 900.

In light of the methods of warfare in recent decades, special importance is attached to air defense, which is designed to protect units on the march and in positions, as well as important facilities of the troops and the country. Syria realized this in the late seventies and began to build a new air defense system. Air defense troops are a separate branch of the Syrian armed forces. The total number of personnel of air defense troops exceeds 40 thousand people. The troops are divided into two divisions. In addition to them, the Air Defense Forces have two separate regiments armed with Osa-AK and C-300В missile complexes. The remaining units are equipped with Soviet-made air defense systems, including the old C-75 and C-200. It is worth noting that the most massive complex in the Syrian air defense forces is still C-75 (at least 300 units). The second in number - 2K12 "Cube" short range, of which there are about two hundred. The most advanced equipment in the air defense forces are the C-300В and С-300П families, as well as the Buk and Pantsir-С9 37K1 families. It is worth noting that, according to some sources, the latter has already managed to demonstrate its effectiveness in practice, when in June of this year Turkish reconnaissance aircraft RF-4E invaded Syrian airspace and was shot down.

Finally, the naval forces of Syria. Compared to Turkish, they are small and poorly equipped. So, in the Syrian Navy serves only four thousand people. Two and a half more are in reserve. Until recently, as part of the Syrian military fleet there were two submarines of project 633, bought from the USSR, now they are withdrawn from the Navy. Syria's largest surface warships are two Project 159 frigates / patrol vessels, also acquired from the Soviet Union. Ships with a total displacement of more than a thousand tons carry anti-submarine bombers RBU-250 and 400-mm torpedo tubes. There is no built-in missile weaponry; air defense is carried out only at the expense of MANPADS taken on board. The Syrian Navy also has three dozen missile boats. These are Soviet boats of the project 205 Moskit, armed with P-15U Termite missiles (20 units), as well as Iranian Tir, modified to use similar weapons. The list of combat boats is closed by patrol boats of the Soviet project 1400ME (no more than eight) and no more than six Iranian MIG-S-1800s. It is noteworthy that in the Syrian fleet there are relatively many mine minesweepers. Seven ships of this class were purchased from the USSR and belong to projects 1258, 1265 and 266M.

Despite its small size, the Syrian Navy has a naval aviation squadron. It includes more than a dozen anti-submarine helicopters Mi-14PL and five Ka-27PL of similar purpose. In addition, half a dozen Ka-25 helicopters are used as multipurpose machines.

conclusions

As you can see, the armed forces of Turkey and Syria differ significantly both in qualitative and quantitative terms. Moreover, in some cases even the concepts of the composition of one or another kind of troops are different. For example, in the Syrian air force, in contrast to the Turkish, there are still special front bombers. Turkey, in turn, adopted NATO tactical standards and abandoned this type of winged technology. It is difficult to say whether this decision was correct or not.

It is worth paying special attention to the Turkish fighter-bombers F-16. Turkey has 250 of such machines and it is quite obvious that they will become the main striking force in the event of a full-scale conflict. NATO countries have long preferred to fight from the air and “descend” to ground operations only when the risk of loss of ground forces is reduced to a minimum or when the need arises. Based on such views on the conduct of the war, one can understand the desire of Syria to purchase new anti-aircraft systems: if there are modern air defense systems, the war is unlikely to end with the complete and unconditional success of the attacking side. Proper use of air defense systems by the Syrian military can greatly complicate the lives of Turkish pilots, up to the almost complete impossibility of making bombing missions. Of course, such a development of events seems unlikely due to the obsolescence of most of the Syrian air defense missile systems. At the same time, the Turkish Air Force also can not be called ultramodern. It is worth noting that the Syrian air force in the event of a conflict, most likely, will only defend. It is hardly worth waiting for strikes on the administrative centers of Turkey: a breakthrough to large enemy targets will be associated with too great a risk for Syrian pilots.

As for the naval forces, the Syrian fleet is unlikely to be able to contend with the Turkish. The Turkish Navy significantly lags behind the fleets of leading states, but Syria does not even catch up with Turkey in this regard. Therefore, the Turkish naval forces, if necessary, are able to destroy the Syrian ships and boats right on their bases, including without air support. Unfortunately, there is almost nothing to oppose to Syria on this point, except for the already outdated Termite anti-ship missiles.

The greatest interest for the analysis is the land operation. Perhaps the Turks, looking at the European experience in Libya, will not send their infantry to Syria and entrust the ground part of the war to local insurgents. However, in this case even regular air strikes and artillery may not have the desired effect, at least in the first time. The last months have clearly shown that the forces of Damascus are in no way inferior to the insurgents, and in some cases even win. Therefore, the transfer of responsibility for the ground operation into the hands of the so-called armed opposition threatens to change the nature of the war in the direction of delaying it. Naturally, air support may be of sufficient assistance, but the structure of Syria’s air defense will complicate it considerably. If the Turks do decide to independently advance into Syrian territory, then there they will face serious opposition. In this case, as is often the case, the guarantee of victory will be the experience of soldiers and commanders, as well as coordination of the actions of the troops.

With regards to experience worth remembering history armed forces of Syria and Turkey. So, the Syrian army, starting from its very formation in the forties of the last century, regularly participated in wars. The last major conflict involving Syria is the Gulf War. Turkey last actively fought in the 1974 year, during the fighting in Cyprus. It is quite fair to assume that in such conditions the Syrian military are better prepared, and the high command not only has experience in fighting, but even managed to participate in several wars at once. Accordingly, with regard to the combat experience, Turkey is likely to lose significantly to Syria.

Summing up, it is necessary to say the following: the Syrian and Turkish armies differ considerably, and one country or the other “wins” at individual points. This makes it difficult to make accurate predictions of events. However, forecasting is difficult only if NATO countries refuse to support Turkey in the intervention. If the United States, Britain, Germany and other members of the Alliance decide to help Ankara in its “struggle for the freedom of the Syrian people,” then the result of a military conflict is likely to be sad both for the current Syrian leadership and for the whole country.


On the materials of the sites:
http://sipri.org/
http://globalsecurity.com/
http://tsk.tr/
http://flightglobal.com/
http://turkeyswar.com/
http://turkishnavy.net/
http://milaviapress.com/
http://globalfirepower.com/
http://geopoliticalmonitor.com/
http://belvpo.com/
http://lenta.ru/
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  1. Pimply
    Pimply 15 October 2012 07: 39 New
    +19
    Cyril, as if the Turks are actively fighting with the Kurds, who have quite decent weapons, and the training is not at zero
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 15 October 2012 08: 53 New
      -22
      Quote: Pimply
      Cyril, as if the Turks are actively fighting with the Kurds, who have quite decent weapons, and the training is not at zero

      You're right!
      Plus, how did Syria participate in Iraq?
      and I think the spirit and traditions are higher and more among the Turks!
      Much better prepared!
      In general, when comparing heaven and earth !!
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 15 October 2012 09: 25 New
        +9
        Off-top is small, Alibek.
        But did Israel put Storm to Azerbaijan?



        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 15 October 2012 09: 42 New
          +3
          Quote: Pimply
          But did Israel put Storm to Azerbaijan?

          they do not speak about this officially, but it seems to me a lot has been purchased !!
          At least I have long seen Israeli weapons, and they started writing about them only in the year before last after the parade !!
          Even drones apparently were long ago and the most advanced in those days, in the sense of years !!
          I think Aliyev said with good reason that our relations resemble an iceberg, 9 tenths of which no one sees !!
          on berets is the special forces of BB, it is quite possible!
          1. nycsson
            nycsson 15 October 2012 09: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Yarbay
            I think Aliyev said with good reason that our relations resemble an iceberg, 9 tenths of which no one sees !!

            What is it for.............? bully
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 15 October 2012 10: 07 New
              +2
              Quote: nycsson
              What is it for.............?

              in terms of??
              cooperation, alliance and what ??
              1. nycsson
                nycsson 15 October 2012 10: 14 New
                +2
                Quote: Yarbay
                in terms of??
                cooperation, alliance and what ??

                With whom you will lead, from that you will gain .......... hi
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 15 October 2012 10: 27 New
                  +3
                  Quote: nycsson
                  With whom you will lead, from that you will gain ...

                  I would be very glad to pick them up in a military sense !!
                  1. Matt
                    Matt 15 October 2012 10: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    I would be very glad to pick them up in a military sense !!

                    I also!!!)))
                    I will try not to flood, but I would like to understand, but who are you, comrade Alibek !!!)))
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 15 October 2012 10: 43 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Matt
                      I will try not to flood, but I would like to understand, but who are you, comrade Alibek !!!)))

                      In terms of??
                      I am for my country !!
                      Then against injustice, Armenia and America !!
                      Then they go below the rank))
                      Glad your return!
                      pure epaulettes, a clear conscience !!
                      1. Matt
                        Matt 15 October 2012 10: 48 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Glad your return!

                        THANK YOU hi
                        In all seriousness !!!!))

                        Quote: Yarbay
                        pure epaulettes, a clear conscience !!

                        And an empty Head, I so constantly told subordinates !!!)))
                      2. dimanf
                        dimanf 15 October 2012 11: 59 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Then against injustice, Armenia and America !!


                        Armenia with a small letter. And America is big.
                        Is it random or not?
                        And if America as part of NATO gets into the Syrian-Turkish conflict, who will you be?
                      3. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 15 October 2012 12: 15 New
                        -7
                        Quote: dimanf
                        Armenia with a small letter. And America is big.

                        I’ll write you in the face if you are really interested!
                        I don’t want to discuss this here!
                        Quote: dimanf
                        And if America as part of NATO gets into the Syrian-Turkish conflict, who will you be?

                        The forum users know my position, I am against interference in the internal affairs of any country!
                        Assad’s courage is sympathetic to me, although I consider him doomed!
                        I live and admire the Turkish army!
                      4. dimanf
                        dimanf 15 October 2012 12: 27 New
                        +10
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        The forum users know my position, I am against interference in the internal affairs of any country!
                        Assad’s courage is sympathetic to me, although I consider him doomed!
                        I live and admire the Turkish army!


                        So you are against Turkish intervention in the Syrian mess?
                        After all, Turkey helps outright bandits!
                      5. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 15 October 2012 12: 34 New
                        +5
                        Quote: dimanf
                        So you are against Turkish intervention in the Syrian mess?
                        After all, Turkey helps outright bandits!

                        You understood me correctly!
                      6. Matt
                        Matt 15 October 2012 13: 26 New
                        +7
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        You understood me correctly!


                        We will live infantry !!!)))

                  2. Matt
                    Matt 15 October 2012 13: 23 New
                    +23
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    I live and admire the Turkish army!

                    Alibek, but I admire the Russian army more !!!

                  3. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 13: 47 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Matt
                    Alibek, but I admire the Russian army more !!!

                    For this I admire you !!!
                  4. Matt
                    Matt 15 October 2012 14: 06 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    For this I admire you !!!

                    Do not lead me into the paint, I'm just a humble clerk (in your language) good
                    But you can be admired --- being on the "enemy" site find so many friends here !!!)))
                    Well, of course, “enemies” - he will manage to become a Marshall and at the same time then ask the administrator for friends !!!))



                    Oh damn ...... ches.slovo -I express my thoughts so !!!)))
                    I don’t swear with anyone ???)))
                    I promise for this post - to post a few more posts about Tula and its plants !!!!)))
                  5. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 14: 21 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Matt
                    Do not introduce me to the paint, I'm just a humble clerk

                    A man can and should love his homeland, regardless of his position and status in society!
                    Quote: Matt
                    I promise for this post - to post a few more posts about Tula and its plants

                    Looking forward to it!
                    Quote: Matt
                    being on the "enemy" site find here so many friends !!!
                    this site and country, even in brackets, are not * hostile *!
                    The policy for me is unacceptable in relation to my country !!
                  6. Matt
                    Matt 15 October 2012 14: 31 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    A man can and should love his homeland, regardless of his position and status in society!

                    I agree!!!
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Looking forward to it!

                    Later, when I see a suitable topic !!!
                    Although the topic is always suitable, the main thing ... to correctly express your thought !!!



                    Quote: Yarbay
                    this site and country, even in brackets, are not * hostile *!

                    100% or even 146% !!)))

                    Quote: Yarbay
                    The policy for me is unacceptable in relation to my country !!

                    Well, here Alibek, don’t ... Nobody kills your country, but if your rulers don’t have enough brains, then it may end badly and Turkey will not help !!
                    Whoever you may know the power of the Russian Federation !!!!))) soldier
                  7. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 14: 39 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Matt
                    Alibek here, don’t

                    Here Met does not agree))))))) we will continue but * knives *))
                    Quote: Matt
                    Nobody is killing your country, but if your rulers don’t have enough brains, it may end badly and Turkey will not help!

                    Where to kill further! ??!
                    Quote: Matt
                    Whoever you may know the power of the Russian Federation !!!!)))

                    Well, no one in their right mind would argue with that !!))
                  8. Matt
                    Matt 15 October 2012 14: 57 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Here Met does not agree))))))) we will continue but * knives *))

                    On the "knives" so on the knives !!!))
                    I’d like to apply the joke, but from Respect to You I won’t! ”

                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Where to kill further! ??!

                    What do you want ????
                    Open your borders and you will be happy and teach Georgians to be friends !!
                    You can’t rely on the Turks, even though you are a Turk (you stubborn Alibek) !!! hi
                    You know how it ends !!!
                  9. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 15: 20 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Matt
                    Open your borders and you will be happy and teach Georgians to be friends !!

                    Why on earth ???
                    Let Japan take the Far East from you, arrange a massacre in Nakhodka, and drive 10 million out of these places, and you continue to be friends and trade !!! ????
                    Quote: Matt
                    You can’t rely on the Turks, even though you are a Turk (you stubborn Alibek) !!

                    I do not hope for anyone !!
                    Quote: Matt
                    You know how it ends !!!
                    For all the will of the Almighty!
                    Only He gives victory or defeat!
                    I have already made my choice a long time ago !!
                  10. Matt
                    Matt 15 October 2012 15: 53 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Why on earth ???

                    I mean, you still think that you are independent ??)))

                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Let Japan take the Far East from you, arrange a massacre in Nakhodka, and drive 10 million out of these places, and you continue to be friends and trade !!! ????

                    Since when did the Turks interest the Far East ???
                    It seems you are not the English small shaves ???)))
                    Or remind you of Admiral Makarov, it’s a pity that he died in a mine, he was a good man !!!

                    Quote: Yarbay
                    For all the will of the Almighty!

                    Maybe, but you know I'm a pagan !!!)))
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    Only He gives victory or defeat!

                    A moot point and even very much !!!
                    Let's go to the flood, otherwise I look at you too many warnings !!))



                    Again I could not resist !!!! am
                    Sasha and Alibek. Sorry, I’ll try not to do this anymore, unless of course Vadim will forgive !!!))) hi
                  11. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 15 October 2012 15: 57 New
                    +1
                    Hi Alibek! on the western front without change?
                  12. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 16: 10 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Ruslan67
                    Hi Alibek! on the western front without change?

                    Hi Ruslan !!
                    There are changes)))))
                    Meta returned))))
                  13. Matt
                    Matt 15 October 2012 17: 36 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Yarbay

                    Hi Ruslan !!
                    There are changes)))))
                    Meta returned))))

                    YES ... thanks to YOU, you and Sasha !!!
                    JVASIBO Boys!!!!
                    And then I already, to be honest, somehow I was afraid !!!))) drinks hi
                  14. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 17: 43 New
                    0
                    Quote: Matt
                    YES ... thanks to YOU, you and Sasha !!!

                    No, only thanks to Sasha, I’m saying without false modesty !!
                    I already wrote that my participation was only in experiences and in sharing responsibility with Sasha !!
                    And here is Sasha-HUMAN !!!
                  15. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 15 October 2012 21: 07 New
                    +1
                    Alibek! why is Met banned again?
          2. Bekzat
            Bekzat 15 October 2012 23: 56 New
            0
            Greetings to all, for Alibek. For all the Will of Allah, I hope (very) that all this will be decided peacefully. I respect you Alibek. The wisdom of the Eastern Man is manifested in you.
        2. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 15 October 2012 15: 55 New
          +3
          Welcome back! and immediately in battle we only dream of peace?
        3. Yarbay
          Yarbay 15 October 2012 16: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Ruslan67
          come back! and immediately in battle we only dream of peace?

          this is not a fight!
          Opinion exchange!))))
        4. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 15 October 2012 16: 25 New
          +2
          Alibek! I'm joking!
        5. Yarbay
          Yarbay 15 October 2012 16: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Ruslan67
          Alibek! I'm joking!

          I understand))))
          I even put brackets there imitating my smile)))
  2. Ruslan67
    Ruslan67 15 October 2012 16: 28 New
    +3
    Matt! where is the fly? bored without it especially on monday
  3. Matt
    Matt 15 October 2012 17: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: Ruslan67
    Matt! where is the fly? bored without it especially on monday



    Ruslan, where are you from ???
    Name, something very familiar !!!))

  4. 16 October 2012 17: 20 New
    0
    Matt,
    Cool! These videos should be turned on TV to educate the patriotic spirit in the younger generation.
  5. whispering
    whispering 15 October 2012 21: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Yarbay
    I live and admire the Turkish army!

    you would admire your army .... smile .... give you at least an atomic boom ... you are not fighters anyway .... hi
  6. Yarbay
    Yarbay 15 October 2012 21: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: Shota
    you would admire your army ..

    Of course I admire !!
    Do you recognize the head of your terrorist Melkonyan?)))
    Ashot Mirzoyan writes about this:
    “Stop speculating on the topic of ABO death!” He was not killed by the aliens from outer space. He died at the hands of our enemies, but he could not ask for mercy from some young Azerbaijani intelligence officer. I am an eyewitness of that event. On June 12, 1993, at about three o'clock in the afternoon, we were alerted. We surrounded the village of Muganly. We searched ABO. Despite our efforts, we were unable to find it. It was found three days later, without a head. He was killed very close by, where his body was found. We do not know how many there were. We found traces of the arrival of Azerbaijani special forces here. They masked the tracks well. But how they got out of the encirclement is still a mystery to us. ”

    “I fought in the Martuni direction. There were hard times. The fate of the Armenians of the Martuni region, and of all Armenians, depended on the hair until Monte Melkonyan appeared in Artsakh. We survived the blogger Avo, expelled all the Turks, we defeated the elite military units of the Azerbaijani army. He was extremely merciless to the cowards-traitors of the Armenian idea. And he himself was always in the forefront. Often one, unaccompanied, went to the liberated villages, and that led to his death.
    He died in 1993 on June 12 of the previously liberated village of Muganly. Unaccompanied, walking among the ruins of the village, he was killed in very mysterious circumstances. His body was found three days later and was immediately sent to Yerevan. ”
    “For three days, day and night, we searched for the ABO,” writes another Armenian mercenary, Askanaz Abrahamyan, but cannot understand how Ibad Huseynov’s squad of 14 fighters managed to penetrate the territory of the Muganly village captured by the Armenians, liquidate Avo and also quietly leave the Armenian encirclement . “We were so stupid that we didn’t notice ... even if they succeeded, where did they evaporate?
    http://www.rizvanhuseynov.com/2011/02/blog-post_156.html

    FINALLY ADMINISTER YOUR ARMY THAT DESTROY SUCH RATS THAT KILLED WOMEN AND CHILDREN !!
  7. Pimply
    Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 09 New
    0
    Alibek. Do not cross the border. You’ll get another ban - especially with such and such pictures. Provoke - inform the administration, only do not go to srach.
  8. Yarbay
    Yarbay 15 October 2012 22: 12 New
    +2
    [quote = Pimpled] Alibek. Do not cross the border. You’ll get another ban - especially with such and such pictures. Provoke - inform the administration, only do not go to srach.


    MARRIAGE I WILL NOT CROSS ANY BORDER!
    This jackal Melkonyan was an international terrorist, please open the Internet and read, blew up a bomb at Orly airport, 56 people were killed and injured !!
    In Khojaly, he and his detachment killed women and children with particular cruelty, his brother writes about this in the book * The Path of My Brother *!
    I am proud that my work is in its destruction !!
  9. Pimply
    Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 16 New
    +3
    Understand. Alibek, I just remind you: you are an adult. Do not get fooled by children. Be smart.
  10. Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 15 October 2012 22: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Yarbay
    WIFE I WILL NOT CROSS ANY BORDER!
    This jackal Melkrnian was an international terrorist, please open the Internet and read, blew up a bomb at Orly airport, 56 people were killed and injured !!
    In Khojaly, he and his squad killed women and children with particular cruelty!
    I am proud that my work is in its destruction !!


    Fascists should get what they deserve, regardless of nationality. But I think this is the case when both sides are facing each other. They cut you - you them. The raid of civilization quickly flies from people.
    It’s not a matter of mocking the corpses. I can not imagine a Soviet soldier taking a picture of himself with an SS man.
    As for the fiery love of Azerbaijanis for Turkey ... Well, as they say, "be healthy, live richly." Maybe something good will come out. Although marriages between close relatives often lead to ... Well, okay.
  11. Wanderer1980
    Wanderer1980 16 October 2012 00: 00 New
    +1
    Do you recognize the head of your terrorist Melkonyan?


    The photograph of this asker with his head chopped off has nothing to do with Melkonyan.

    Monte's funeral in Yerevan

  12. Wanderer1980
    Wanderer1980 16 October 2012 00: 18 New
    0
    On June 12, 1993, learning about the difficult situation in the village of Marzili, Monte Melkonyan, together with his deputy and soldiers, drove to his village in his UAZ, where it was difficult to make out where his own and where the enemy was. At that moment, from 40 meters they were shot from the cannon of an Azerbaijani infantry fighting vehicle in their car. Those in UAZ managed to jump out, but the second shell blew up the wall of the house, behind which Monte Melkonyan was hiding. He died from a head wound.

    A similar course of events was confirmed by the former commander of the 2nd motorized rifle battalion of the 708th brigade of the Azerbaijan army Khatai Bakhyshev. Monte Melkonyan was buried at the state level in the cemetery of heroes "Yerablur" in Yerevan. Contrary to the claims of Azerbaijani propaganda, all parts of his body were in place.

    You can certainly continue to believe in fairy tales, almost "and I was there, honey, drank beer, flowed down my mustache - but it didn’t get into my mouth ..."
    And you can find one of the few not scared askers of the commander of the 2nd motorized rifle battalion of the 708th brigade of the Azerbaijan army, Khatai Bakhyshev, who, unlike you, Rizvan Huseynov and other brave internet askers, had the honor to fight against this brave warrior, and ask him.
    And so that you understand the situation even better, in the very book “My brother’s path” written by brother Melkonyan it is written that Avo was not in the village of Ivanyan (former Khojaly) when an operation was carried out to suppress Azerbaijani fire points, with permission, army.
  13. potterz
    potterz 16 October 2012 09: 29 New
    0
    I live and admire the Turkish army!
    .................................................. ..............................
    .......

    Sorry, but what is there to admire !?
  • Very smart
    Very smart 15 October 2012 12: 47 New
    +3
    Guys, the quote is wrong! Correctly:
    "WITH WHICH YOU WILL BE ABOUT - WITH THEM AND GET MORE!"
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 15 October 2012 23: 15 New
    0
    Yes, and put PTRK Scythian Ukrainian-Belarusian
  • olo-olo
    olo-olo 15 October 2012 22: 54 New
    0
    UAZ is better than these cars. not worth it wasted on them. anyway, any machine from a grenade launcher will turn into metal. Window dressing
  • nnz226
    nnz226 15 October 2012 12: 16 New
    +12
    In 1991, the Syrian Panzer Division (T-72) went through the desert on its way to join the anti-Saddam coalition, I will not say how it participated in the hostilities. During the transition, only the 1 (!!!) tank fell behind. unlike any vaunted Abrams and Challengers, who after 50 km of dusty path got up with tightly clogged air filters.
  • Wanderer1980
    Wanderer1980 15 October 2012 18: 21 New
    0
    Video recording of the capture of the Moscow-Damascus aircraft by the Turks

    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 16 October 2012 04: 24 New
      0
      Video recording of the capture of the Moscow-Damascus aircraft by the Turks

      We had a couple of our specialists and some sort of diplomatic worker to put on the plane and everything, the reverse of the Turkish Air Force, by all conventions, do not agree - casus belli ...
      1. kirieeleyson
        kirieeleyson 16 October 2012 12: 16 New
        0
        Quote: PSih2097
        We had a couple of our specialists and some sort of diplomatic worker to put on the plane and everything, the reverse of the Turkish Air Force, by all conventions, do not agree - casus belli ..

        In my opinion, we needed to use this term even earlier when our diplomat was attacked in Qatar. And to be honest, by and large we need a "small victorious war." NATO countries will not support a country in which the Russian Federation will strike powerfully and suddenly. For a month of active action, you can “trample into the Stone Age” a country, the scale of Turkey is generally (Turkey’s patriots will not be offended, this is a fact, nothing more.) The French and Germany are very busy with Mali, the rest do not even jerk under the burden of crisis. USA especially. I’m not saying that it’s necessary to “stamp” Turkey, but for example, you can beautifully cut a country from the world map, such as the UAE (hello to Americans))
        1. 16 October 2012 17: 22 New
          +1
          Quote: kirieeleyson
          You can beautifully cut off a country from the world map, such as the UAE (Hello Americans))

          Qatar is the best fit for this.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 16 October 2012 15: 17 New
        -1
        Yes no
  • them
    them 15 October 2012 19: 03 New
    +1
    “and I think the spirit and traditions are higher and more among the Turks!” - why is it suddenly? But it seems to me the opposite! Who else thinks that?
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 15 October 2012 23: 14 New
    +2
    What do you equal in Syria, the civil war seems to be going on, the people are not united, and the Kurdish factor should not be dismissed, then the wacky one says that the Turks say that they are good at fighting. Something that is hard to believe is that 20 people are boiling from the Kurds, so it's too early to draw conclusions
    1. tekinoral
      tekinoral 15 October 2012 23: 27 New
      -2
      Mostly they die from explosions or are ambushed, but there are no such deaths in battles. And at the expense of Syria, if they are such good warriors, why have they stood under us for 500 years?
  • vikontas56
    vikontas56 15 October 2012 23: 43 New
    0
    What are the traditions of the Turks above? Bakshish in your pocket? They fight with the Kurds in counter-guerrilla methods, for the front-line operations are unsuitable! And Syria has good experience in "relations" with Israel, so to throw good stars in Turkey has every opportunity! Another thing if all of NATO collapses , "roofing" Turkish aircraft! Then it will be difficult for the Syrians, especially if they throw Syrian air defense with their missiles!
  • Taratut
    Taratut 21 October 2012 18: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Yarbay
    I think the spirit and traditions are higher and more among the Turks!
    Much better prepared!
    In general, when comparing heaven and earth !!

    There is nothing to compare. Turkey is incomparably stronger.
  • Turkfucker
    Turkfucker 29 January 2018 23: 02 New
    0
    Ala wah wah wah wah wah, well, let them help you in Karabakh. Bizimdirik, Anov Sikim.
  • wave
    wave 15 October 2012 09: 21 New
    0
    Pimpled, the fact that the Turks are fighting with the Kurds-this is not an indicator. This can be compared, for example, with our security forces, who suppress the underground popping out of the gangs in the Caucasus.
    Thanks to Cyril for the work and information!
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 October 2012 09: 24 New
      +7
      Fighting always counts. War is war. It can take a different form. Based on criteria such as a war against a conventional army, the Russian army had only one military experience - the war in Georgia.
      1. Lesorub
        Lesorub 20 October 2012 11: 40 New
        +1
        the Russian army has gained military experience in Chechnya and has only been verified in Georgia
    2. Yeraz
      Yeraz 15 October 2012 10: 47 New
      0
      Quote: vague
      Pimpled, the fact that the Turks are fighting with the Kurds-this is not an indicator. This can be compared, for example, with our security forces, who suppress the underground popping out of the gangs in the Caucasus.

      not really. realistically, the banpollis are few in number and attack mainly the cops. There are more Kurds and they mostly attack large convoys or military units of the Turkish army. Plus, do not forget the nearby Irvk Kurdistan de jure independent, which supports the PKK. Turks often conducted military operations against North of Iraq and they have more than enough experience.
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 14: 03 New
    +4
    And can I also throw a little scheme and compare
    Where, according to your scheme or source scheme, where did you take it from Turkey 1940 aircraft ???
    1. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 14: 38 New
      +7
      Turkish Air Force
      The number of personnel - 60 thousand people

      Combat aircraft - 21 squadrons:
      fighter-bomber - 8
      fighter air defense - 7
      reconnaissance - 2
      combat training - 4.

      Auxiliary aircraft - 11 squadrons:
      transport - 5
      training - 5
      refueling - 1.

      Combat aircraft
      Canadair nf-5a 26
      Canadair nf-5b 15
      McDonnell Douglas F-4E 124
      McDonnell Douglas RF-4E 38
      Tusas F-16C 158
      Tusas F-16D 40
      That’s all that battle of them 203 units of very obsolete models и 198 units of F16 are also not the latest models.

      Transport aircraft
      Boeing 737-700 1
      Boeing 737-700BBJ 1
      Boeing KC-135R tanker 7
      CASA CN-235 2
      Tusas CN-235M 48
      Cessna 650 Citation VII 2
      Cessna Citation II 2
      Gulfstream IV 3
      Lockheed C-130B 6
      Lockheed C-130E 7
      Raytheon 200 6
      Transall C-160D 18

      Training aircraft
      Cessna T-37B 20
      Cessna T-37C 35
      Cessna T-41D 24
      Northrop T-38 68
      SIAI-Marchetti SF.260D 38
      Socata TB.20 7
      1. Matt
        Matt 15 October 2012 14: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Lord of the Sith
        Training aircraft
        Cessna T-37B 20
        Cessna T-37C 35
        Cessna T-41D 24
        Northrop T-38 68
        SIAI-Marchetti SF.260D 38
        Socata TB.20 7

        Well, ALL drain water !!!)))
        Again the acronym torture !!!! (((

      2. tekinoral
        tekinoral 15 October 2012 15: 04 New
        -4
        F-16 C / D Blok 50 M 30 units
        F-16 C / D Blok 50 72 units
        F-16 C / D Blok 40 101 units
        F-16 C / D Blok 30 37 units

        it's only f16 for 2012
        1. Lord of the Sith
          Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 15: 44 New
          +2
          Please indicate your source.
          1. tekinoral
            tekinoral 15 October 2012 15: 58 New
            -1
            TÜRK HAVA KUVVETLERİ 2012 ENVANTERİ (S&H 25. yıl özel sayı)
            Muharip Uçaklar
            F-16 C / D Blok 50 M 30 units
            F-16 C / D Blok 50 72 units
            F-16 C / D Blok 40 101 units
            F-16 C / D Blok 30 37 units (+1 adet Milli Aviyonik Modernizasyonlu)
            F-4E 2020 46 units
            F-4E PhantomII 30 units
            F-4ETM 16 adet
            RF-4E PhantomII 10 units
            RF-4E / TM 5 units
            RF-4E / TMG 12-1 = 11 units (1 unit shot down by Syria)
            F-5 A / B 2000 43 units

            source tr militariy
            1. Lord of the Sith
              Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 16: 27 New
              +2
              Thank you so much! I have F16C / D indicated 198 units for 2009, you have more recent data 241 units for 2012.

              But agree not 1940 as from the Azerbaijani site?
              1. tekinoral
                tekinoral 15 October 2012 16: 41 New
                -3
                1940 units are taken together, the figure is correct, and about 400 units are fighters. in general
                1. Lord of the Sith
                  Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 17: 11 New
                  +1
                  We examine combat vehicles fighters, attack aircraft, bombers. So, 400 aircraft have reached the figure by common efforts. Half F4 of various modifications is not known in what condition.

                  By the way, in the article on the table there is such a "Terrestrial Armed Systems" - what is it? Artillery systems probably means artillery self-propelled guns, towed, MLRS. And what is a "Terrestrial Armed Systems"?
                  1. tekinoral
                    tekinoral 15 October 2012 17: 17 New
                    -1
                    about 100 f4 in good fighting condition.

                    And what is the “Ground Armed Systems”? offensive and defensive systems
                    1. Don
                      Don 23 October 2012 17: 47 New
                      0
                      Quote: tekinoral
                      about 100 f4 in good fighting condition.

                      Well, as far as they are in good and efficient condition, we can only guess. Personally, they were not at their airbases and did not personally check.
              2. Yarbay
                Yarbay 15 October 2012 16: 48 New
                0
                Quote: Lord of the Sith
                But agree not 1940 as from the Azerbaijani site?

                Sorry, but which site do you mean, I just can’t find it! ??
                1. Lord of the Sith
                  Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 17: 06 New
                  +1
                  Basically, tables related to Iran or Azerbaijan are taken from the same site. Below is a picture for the article http://ru.salamnews.org/

                  There, by the way, there are quite interesting signs.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 17: 13 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Lord of the Sith

                    Basically, tables related to Iran or Azerbaijan are taken from the same site. Below is a picture for the article http://ru.salamnews.org/

                    There, by the way, there are quite interesting signs.

                    Thank you, and what do you think are interesting ??
                    I would like to take a look!
                    1. Lord of the Sith
                      Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 17: 24 New
                      +1
                      This is a provocative question, I will complain to the UN! bully

                      Offhand that I quickly found




                      I also use this http://defence.az/
                    2. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 15 October 2012 17: 34 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Lord of the Sith

                      This is a provocative question, I will complain to the UN!

                      Offhand that I quickly found

                      Thank you!
                      Sorry, are you the author of the article ??
                      Quote: Lord of the Sith
                      I also use this http://defence.az/
                      This one has long been closed !!
                    3. Lord of the Sith
                      Lord of the Sith 15 October 2012 18: 22 New
                      0
                      How can I be an author if I brought a different table. And I argue about the 1940 aircraft indicated in the table ...
                  2. PSih2097
                    PSih2097 16 October 2012 02: 21 New
                    +1
                    Offhand that I quickly found

                    Well then, add the army of the Russian Federation and its mob to Iran. resource ... The contract is still alive, no one has canceled it ...
            2. tekinoral
              tekinoral 15 October 2012 22: 41 New
              -2
              Sorry, but which site do you mean, I just can’t find it! ??
              she and in the Turkish sites of 1940 but it means all aviation
  • tekinoral
    tekinoral 15 October 2012 15: 28 New
    -1
    she is not the right table
  • Serjant
    Serjant 15 October 2012 18: 43 New
    +2
    I would also clarify where did the mobilization data come from?
    How can Turkey mobilize 41 million, and Syria 11 million, if the population of countries is 75 and 21 million, respectively?
    Or is it supposed that the entire adult population will be put under arms?
  • vanya
    vanya 15 October 2012 15: 45 New
    0
    Regular army is fighting or special forces?
  • Anti
    Anti 15 October 2012 17: 55 New
    +9
    I want to upset Turkey Fan Club. I’ll give a banal example, here a bodybuilder shakes his muscles, constantly looks in the mirror and it seems to him that he will tear anyone or his inflated biceps will be simply afraid. So does he think? But, in real life, everything is much simpler, slender, small, but sinewy tearing it like a tusik heating pad. Is not it? So Turkey, pumped up biceps and believes that it will break. It is not the sword that rules the warrior, but the warrior with the sword. The main thing is in whose hands. Or like the ancestors of the Russichs, the main thing is not a sword, but a warrior !!!!! At the wounded beast and jackal puffed.
    1. tekinoral
      tekinoral 15 October 2012 18: 10 New
      -3
      Based on the current relations between Israel and Turkey, you look and write like this, but you forget the authorities come and go and the peoples remain
      1. Anti
        Anti 15 October 2012 18: 23 New
        +1
        Do not peoples choose power over themselves, and then let it behave in a massacre?
        I do not understand the euphoria of some.

        What is the relationship between Israel and Turkey at the moment?
    2. Blat
      Blat 15 October 2012 18: 21 New
      -4
      thin and wiry must be in very good shape and have a very good blow, which is far from always the case in real life. You need to have muscle to punch with, and your head should be better kept on an inflated neck. A thin and wiry loss in weight, in defense .and even steroidal bodybuilders have very great power. There won't be a push for a hundred weakies either. It depends a lot on the internal state. It’s only in the movies that they fight beautifully. The only accurate shot can be carried out by a trained person, and a large number are stupid shock it does not mean to break as the dinghy grelku.vyvod if they are equal in duhu.to in your small and thin, which he would not wiry was no chance
      1. Anti
        Anti 15 October 2012 18: 36 New
        0
        1.
        The Russians guarded the communications center and stood just a few kilometers from the location of the Deniz battalion, so he left half an hour before the appointed time, taking only Sergeant McNeill, so as not to create hype around the upcoming fight and to prevent information leakage.
        For such things, the Joint Headquarters was asked strictly, fearing most of the ubiquitous journalists.
        Usually, such excesses had to be camouflaged under the special training of the peacekeeping forces, planned exercises, and working out the actions of UN special forces in special conditions.
        We drove in an armored car, taking with us only tracer ammunition and lighting shells for fireworks.
        The sabotage and reconnaissance platoon had not yet arrived at the scene of the battle, and so Denise with his headlights extinguished made his way closer to the outskirts of the village and stood up, hiding the car between the nightmares.
        In night optics - and it was excellent on an reconnaissance armored vehicle - he looked around the object of protection for the Russians and noted their complete recklessness.
        Patrols, freezing in the wind, sadly squelched through the mud on a soggy street, the sentries were clearly dozing, wrapped in tarpaulin, boxes of armored personnel carriers seemed dead; half-asleep this army looked pathetic and evoked a feeling of disgust, like a shabby stray dog.
        These unfortunate guys were only called paratroopers, since Denise knew the level of training of troops in modern Russia.
        They saw parachutes three times, no more, when they were trained in laying before the first and probably the last jump.
        Underfed, they reached up, and even a good army grub, obtained through the UN, could not add to their stats and fortresses.
        Before you dress them in uniform and give weapons, you should send these guys to a sanatorium with bed rest, and only then to military training grounds.
        One very thin and long soldier came very close to the armored car, and Denise ordered the sergeant to be ready to drive back, but the guy did not notice anything, although he looked directly in front of him.
        He stood hunched over and muttered something, now and then supporting the automatic belt on his narrow shoulder.
        For a moment, Jason thought he was praying! And something familiar was heard in his words, at least in their sound.
        Carefully leaning out of the hatch, Denise listened to his speech and suddenly realized - the soldier was reading poetry.
        This was something unnatural, repulsive, as in the words of Gustav Kalt.
        Reason protested, rejected this strange phenomenon, because it is impossible and unnecessary to open the doors of the enfilade, leading to a dead end.
        Jason sat down and clenched his fists, and the memory treacherously brought back another episode from childhood, only later, when on the occasion of the arrival of the Denizov family the grandmother gathered her friends, the same old women in the house, and they played the piano all evening and sang Russian songs with a mournful , prayer motive and recited poems.
        Just like this guy ...
        “A platoon is coming, sir,” McNeil reported, bringing Denise out of the gloom of memories.
        “Great, sergeant!” - instantly perked up Jason and clung to the device: light shadows flickered faintly in the alpine meadow, scouts advanced to the starting line according to all the rules of martial art, borrowed from the legendary “seals” from the famous “Red Team” Lt. Col. Marchenko.
        Four guys at various points entered the village, instantly scouted and signaled to the others.
        Jason decided that now they would begin to take pictures of sentries and patrols, but all the guards suddenly disappeared somewhere from the street and objects.
        1. Anti
          Anti 15 October 2012 18: 42 New
          0
          2.
          Not a single Russian! Or removed so cleanly that he simply did not notice? ..
          And then I saw a skinny soldier reading poetry, hiding around the corner of a nightmare near the armored car and now looks out in fear, like an animal from a hole.
          I didn’t even give an alarm!
          Meanwhile, a platoon of mercury flowed from the meadow to the outskirts of the village and slowly began to accumulate around the house where the paratrooper barracks were located.
          One shot, a loud cry, and the alarm would have raised, but the sentries hid, and the sentries probably slept with the soldiers.
          Jason's vengeful feeling and the anticipation of a good brawl erupted in a weak protest: it was unfair, unfair to attack the sleepy, and there was even the thought of playing the Russian alarm himself, firing the line from the machine gun.
          But he restrained himself and decided not to interfere in the fight at all, remaining a spectator and a fan.
          And the platoon had already prepared for the assault on the barracks, dispersed near each window and door.
          One guy was already pushed into a window neatly devoid of glass - in order to block the weapons room, several people in different places of the village controlled the situation on the street in order to avoid any surprises during the assault.
          Everyone was waiting for the commander’s signal, and Jason imagined how the guys were springing up before the throw and barely holding back the jubilant war cry.
          And suddenly something incomprehensible happened: the whole space around the barracks began to stir, obscure striped shadows ran, and the many-voiced cry broke the silence, rolling in a wave around the district - Hooray! Jason remembered the device, but in a hurry he breathed on the lens and clouded the glass.
          After a second, the haze melted ...
          Striped human figures arose from nothing, stood up, it seemed, from the ground, stood out from the walls and flew from the roofs.
          Something in his hands looked like flags.
          With a roar and a cry, this ghostly striped power surged toward the barracks, lightning spread everywhere, and Jason realized that the fight was already underway, and furious and cheerful.
          These flags flickered in the air, whistles, exclamations and obscenities merged with the sounds of blows.
          He saw only striped flashes, an obscure cycle of shadows crumbling into splashes - the device distorted everything, did not give a clear picture and seemed to move it away, cut off its lenses from the live breath of the fight.
          Denise leaned out of the hatch, and all the sounds immediately became brighter - a multi-pharyngeal Op hung from the battlefield, from which stood out a Russian mat, swirling with the names of God, Christ and the Virgin.
          And only after feeling the battle along with the breath of the wind, Jason suddenly realized that the outcome of the brawl was a foregone conclusion! A platoon of his scouts has already been smashed to smithereens, divided into groups of two or three people, and now there is a finishing move.
          The whole battle lasted no more than a minute, and the infantrymen were already lying on the ground, and only a small part retreated into the meadow, but even it was enveloped in striped shadows, like a halo.
          Denise jumped onto the armor, jerked off his jacket, but before jumping to the ground, he saw a skinny soldier who now turned out to be striped too, and had a flag in his hand.
          And this worm tried to control him, stepped in his way, turning his flag in his hand, like a propeller.
          He was advancing! Jason jumped, and barely sensing the push of the earth, made a rapid leap forward, hoping to immediately knock the enemy down.
          A surge of war malice instantly evaporated the remnants of pity for this underfed creature.
          The guy somehow dodged the blow and stopped rotating his flag.
          1. Anti
            Anti 15 October 2012 18: 45 New
            +3
            3.
            He stood in some strange stance, legs wide apart and arms spread, and froze, as if waiting for him to be killed.
            And Denise realized that now this boy would die.
            Before it gets hit.
            The fist clenched itself and began to rapidly fill with the familiar energy of ball lightning.
            He saw a narrow striped chest in front of him, turning into a long neck, on which a large and also long head rested.
            Moving softly, Jason raised his hand and with a simultaneous step carried his fist forward, but at that moment Sergeant McNeill breathed into the back of his head and for a moment dispersed the force of movement.
            The striped hand suddenly flew towards, while elongating strangely, and at the last moment Jason saw that it was not a flag flying, but a small sapper shovel on a wooden handle ...
            The earth fell over, springed softly, like a downy bed, and the world before his eyes, outlined in stripes, slowly died away.
            Denise woke up and saw the ghost of Gustav Kalt in front of him.
            The doctor, with a cold stone face, waved his arms above his head, and behind his shoulder stood a gravestone statue of Sergeant McNeil.
            The vision was still exhausted by running stripes, as happens on the TV screen.
            - He opened his eyes! the sergeant said tragically, as if from a distance.
            Kalt looked into his face and asked busily:
            “Are you all right, sir?” Now I’ll bandage my head and everything will be all right.
            Jason waved his hand in the direction of McNeil and as if said - Get out! But then he saw that his fist was still clenched, constrained, constricted by a spasm and not amenable to freedom.
            The sergeant did not leave, but as if dissolved in the air, leaving behind a black spot, exactly repeating the shape of the figure.
            “You are lucky, sir,” Gustav said, fastening the bandage with a special net.
            - The blow is applied by the plane of the blade of the shovel.
            if an edge - would have demolished a half-skull.
            You know, sir, in Russian sapper shovels are specially sharpened like a blade.
            I saw these chopped wounds - a terrible sight.
            Denise mechanically leaned forward, wanted to ask - where did he see ?! - Kalt held him, laid his head on the back of the chair.
            “No, sir, in the intelligence platoon, fortunately, everyone is alive.”
            Only twenty-two people were injured.
            And the nature of the injuries is something like yours.
            There are several more broken ribs, but that doesn’t count ... And I saw the heads cut by sapper blades in Russia.


            That's about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! smile wink blat MD Today, 18:21

            1. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 16 October 2012 11: 46 New
              0
              It was you who read Sergeyev, wrote well, but it’s pure fantasy, unfortunately.
            2. Blat
              Blat 16 October 2012 12: 37 New
              -2
              Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Now it’s clear why the comments you have to match. You start with different x .. ..ni)))))))))))
              1. Anti
                Anti 16 October 2012 18: 22 New
                0
                AKuzenka RU Today, 11:46 AM

                blat MD Today, 12:37 ↑


                You say insulting. ((((They didn’t have the privilege to see, in lively, the work of the Russian airborne assault. Fortunately, there is a desire to give you a link about the most common inscription on fences.
                You may not be aware that many ideas for creating weapons and not only are really gleaned from famous science fiction books, there are many examples of this, if Google is interested in helping you.
                1. Blat
                  Blat 16 October 2012 18: 34 New
                  -2
                  go and read on and on, such masterpieces. the reality is completely different. and what will be your perplexity if you meet reality. You’ll probably go right by the address on the fence)))))))))))
                  1. Anti
                    Anti 16 October 2012 18: 41 New
                    -1
                    et kakya reality, Moldavian?)))) you again say insulting (((

                    God forbid, I would have missed. He would have crushed me for himself. And I know that. This little man is by no means a weakling.

                    if only my grandmother had a party ticket, she would be a member of the party))))
                    You yourself have proved to us that the biceps are hard))) you could?
                    even so go to the address on the fence))))))))))))
      2. Bekzat
        Bekzat 16 October 2012 00: 11 New
        0
        For Blat, once in a fight I tore a cut above and heavier than a Korean. So consider the mobility of the small.
        1. Blat
          Blat 16 October 2012 12: 30 New
          0
          what you broke doesn’t mean anything. I myself weigh about 85 kg and 130 kg knocked down with a blow. By the way, the blow was prepared and then, as I later found out, it was about the strength of my real blow of 130 kg. But God forbid I- would miss. he would crush me for himself. and I know that. this little man is by no means a weakling
      3. Kshatriy
        Kshatriy 18 October 2012 16: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: blat
        conclusion if they are equal in spirit. then your little and thin no matter how sinewy he was, there’s no chance

        ... yeah, read the memories of Chuck Noris (heavy weight - over 100kg): ".... I had the impression that I got under the fast train ...." But in Bruce at that time there were only 54 kg ... (I think Bruce Lee and the World Heavyweight Champion, Chuck Norris, were about equal in spirit and skill?)
    3. Rumata
      Rumata 15 October 2012 20: 56 New
      -2
      Quote: Anti
      skinny, small but sinewy tearing him like a tusik heating pad

      Slender and small, well, well ..
      1. Anti
        Anti 15 October 2012 21: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Rumata
        Slender and small, well, well ..


        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5V29RB1LHg
      2. Anti
        Anti 15 October 2012 21: 07 New
        +3
        Quote: Rumata
        Slender and small, well, well ..

        1. Rumata
          Rumata 15 October 2012 21: 45 New
          +1
          This is a well-known fake, about 4 years ago they found this "American soldier", who is also a student at the Institute of Peoples' Friendship. As for everything else that is not related to contactless delirium, you need to train your whole life to be able to do this, since there is no method against scrap and the boxer doesn’t indulge Kadochnikova at all.
          The real authority for me is this

          says truly true things, without any pathos and throwing trained aides to fall
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 15 October 2012 21: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: Rumata
            there is no acceptance of scrap and the boxer does not lie to Kadochnikova at all.

            Is not a fact. Try it, then say.
            1. Rumata
              Rumata 15 October 2012 22: 03 New
              +1
              Quote: DIMS
              Is not a fact. Try it, then say.

              There were many stories about attempts to fight with teachers of the school Kadochnikova, SPAS, Slavic Style, Russian Style and other things, and not one of them did not take place. The only thing there is is a custom-made battle of Starov against some kind of knowing name that you won’t look at without tears

              and the same Starov against Khasikov who really tried not to kill him

              In the hall, this Starov scatters people in dozens worse than Kadochnikov
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 03 New
              0
              Well, as if in the circle of professional fighters, the name of Kadochnikov - like most of those who flashed in this issue of REN-TV, to pronounce is simply indecent
          2. Anti
            Anti 15 October 2012 22: 01 New
            -1
            Quote: Rumata
            This is a famous fake, about 4 years ago we found this "American soldier",


            For a couple of hundred greens, he still will not say something. wassat

            And this fildets kinderkaka self-defense ..... With good training, but without a darling, people just a clown. But on the contrary, this is another compote. And it’s not at all necessary to be a gulliver. For, we left the topic ..
            1. Rumata
              Rumata 15 October 2012 22: 10 New
              0
              Quote: Anti
              Fuck, we left the topic ..

              Exactly =))
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 12 New
              -1
              Quote: Anti
              people just a clown

              Which one of?
              1. Anti
                Anti 15 October 2012 22: 14 New
                -1
                The one who has no darling.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 24 New
                  0
                  And which of them, in your opinion, is "with a sweet smell"
                  1. Anti
                    Anti 15 October 2012 22: 29 New
                    0
                    I can finally talk about warriors, not boxers.
                    On the last 2 films, the bald one turned on the back one.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 33 New
                      +2
                      Yes, a bald circus gives. They are all there - contactless persons of the perestroika spill - the guys are very entertaining. Such a marvelous circus. But it looks beautiful, and grandmother.
                    2. Rumata
                      Rumata 15 October 2012 22: 39 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Yes, a bald circus gives. They are all there - contactless persons of the perestroika spill - the guys are very entertaining. Such a marvelous circus. But it looks beautiful, and grandmother.

                      Here is my favorite martial arts school, every time I look like the first



                      And what is the name - Biomechanics of the White Samoryad..uh already breathtaking =)
                    3. Pimply
                      Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 47 New
                      +1
                      Biomechanics of the White Samoryad. - this is wonderful. I am delighted. I thought that the most sur is Abir. But no.
                    4. Anti
                      Anti 15 October 2012 22: 53 New
                      0
                      And plaster bandages are always with you ??? laughing In a real melee, fractures, fractures, fractures and cuts .... are very possible. I hope not offended feelings.
                    5. Pimply
                      Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 57 New
                      +1
                      Yes, we are just talking about the fake and wonderfulness of all this. And anyway: the best melee is a submachine gunner.
                    6. Anti
                      Anti 15 October 2012 23: 09 New
                      -1
                      I would doubt it.
                2. Odessa
                  Odessa 15 October 2012 23: 05 New
                  +4
                  Rumata,
                  This one also knows how, the same principle))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                3. Rumata
                  Rumata 15 October 2012 23: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: Odessa
                  This one also knows how, the same principle))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

                  "This is what the life-giving cross does" ©


                  This is the School of Russian military art "Lyubki", as they say, she came to us from those very heroes, Dobrynya Nikitich, Alyosha Popovich and ...
                4. Odessa
                  Odessa 15 October 2012 23: 26 New
                  +2
                  Rumata,
                  "This is what the life-giving cross does" ©

                  God is not in power, but in truth! And they say so.
                5. bask
                  bask 15 October 2012 23: 33 New
                  +2
                  Do not touch the cross of the muzzle ............ I Take It away .... or else I’ll start to simit.Anti. I don’t touch your star
                6. Pimply
                  Pimply 15 October 2012 23: 38 New
                  -2
                  Well, how could the uncle engage in the video of the obscenity cross, don’t you?
                7. bask
                  bask 15 October 2012 23: 48 New
                  +3
                  Well, the uncle would still be engaged. That the next pusi of the river. You yourself have always urged not to go on insults, that’s not necessary. So write about Syria. For me it’s not the Russian Cross, it's Holy. Let’s, I’ll start to write all sorts of nasties do you like DO NOT NEED PROVOCATIONS. !!!
                8. Pimply
                  Pimply 16 October 2012 00: 05 New
                  -1
                  Dear, for the sake of interest - where did you see the insult to the cross? Decrypt?
                9. Anti
                  Anti 16 October 2012 00: 07 New
                  -1
                  And who are the vampires? No.%: * () (* _) (*)?)) (((Oo + =
                10. Pimply
                  Pimply 16 October 2012 00: 13 New
                  0
                  Vampires cannot come close to the cross, right? wink
                11. Anti
                  Anti 16 October 2012 00: 16 New
                  0
                  That's right!!! I did not think laughing sorry !!
                12. Pimply
                  Pimply 16 October 2012 00: 24 New
                  +1


                  Here, too, tin. "Ancient martial art" Abir ". laughing
                13. Anti
                  Anti 16 October 2012 00: 32 New
                  -1
                  Gomic kung fu panda alibaba shalom?
                14. Pimply
                  Pimply 16 October 2012 00: 36 New
                  +1
                  Type "ancient biblical art." He there handles the letters of the alphabet shows 8)
              2. Northerner
                Northerner 16 October 2012 11: 07 New
                0
                Fighting Zh.I.D. (S), well, all the Chinese are nervously smoking aside with their PANDA KUNG-KFU lol
              3. Pimply
                Pimply 16 October 2012 15: 19 New
                0
                Yeah, he sobbed 8) So not only Russia is famous for the "ancient hand-to-hand arts"
        2. PSih2097
          PSih2097 16 October 2012 02: 53 New
          0
          Vampires cannot come close to the cross, right?

          they only have a count, ask Tepes ...
        3. Pimply
          Pimply 16 October 2012 03: 15 New
          0
          Mythology is very different. For example, a topic with light appeared, if I’m not mistaken, only after “Nosferatu”
  • PSih2097
    PSih2097 16 October 2012 02: 41 New
    +1
    Well, the uncle would still be engaged. That the next pusi of the river. You yourself have always urged not to go on insults, that’s not necessary. So write about Syria. For me it’s not the Russian Cross, it's Holy. Let’s, I’ll start to write all sorts of nasties do you like DO NOT NEED PROVOCATIONS. !!!

    Yes, in the commandments that you "don’t kill" ... But it's about Christian ... All the nasty things were written long before you, that's just about the series "Shrafbat" is not necessary (I have rejection for this), my great-grandfather, three fights in the penalty box reconquered, after three shoots from concentration camps ... there were no barriers of detachments, and if there were, then they fought in one trench.
    Dear, for the sake of interest - where did you see the insult to the cross? Decrypt?

    I don’t think that he can, apparently the “priest” is a former military man and he’ll just hold the barrel in his hands (since the Russian Orthodox Church forbids, except in cases of danger to the flock, this was not even before Kosovo) ...
  • Anti
    Anti 15 October 2012 23: 40 New
    0
    Basque, go on the erotic route, I crap all these religious princes. hi
  • Pimply
    Pimply 15 October 2012 23: 35 New
    -1
    Here you are, vampires o_O
  • Anti
    Anti 15 October 2012 23: 26 New
    0
    All these are children's games in comparison with this.
  • Northerner
    Northerner 16 October 2012 11: 10 New
    +1
    + To you! The technique of BATTLE HISTORIANS IS DISCLOSED!
  • Northerner
    Northerner 16 October 2012 10: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Rumata
    And what is the name - Biomechanics of the White Samoryad .. uuh already breathtaking =)

    Ah, here she is !!! MAGIC PENDAL TECHNOLOGY! Yes, there, as I look, the guys are doing business, they even have one trouser leg rolled up so that the pendle seems more magical, and there is also a MAGIC BOTAN SLAP TECHNIQUE! In general, this is the final stage of training for Internet fighters! Be afraid, these will come to you and pile on magic pendyalya if you will minus! And it seems, they say that this is a hidden training of the IRIS Special Forces! Now the Gay Pride will be under reliable protection wink
    PS They would have to train our national football team, maybe they would learn how to kick the ball at least sideways or knee hi
  • Anti
    Anti 15 October 2012 22: 40 New
    0
    Do not tell me, maybe I didn’t want to cripple, but maybe I realized that it’s not in the topic. But there is also non-perestroika.
  • Anti
    Anti 15 October 2012 23: 16 New
    0
    Well, that’s it. Put out the light, drain the water, shas everyone rewrite wink
  • Odessa
    Odessa 15 October 2012 22: 10 New
    0
    Rumata,
    The real authority for me is this

    For me, by the way, too.
    So this is Badiuk, and he talks very interestingly.
    Thank you. +!)
  • Pripyatchanin
    Pripyatchanin 15 October 2012 18: 07 New
    0
    Gendarmes and the Air Force fight with the Kurds (strike). The main part of the SV does not fight
  • Wanderer1980
    Wanderer1980 15 October 2012 18: 19 New
    +2
    Media: FSB officers flew on board an intercepted plane to Damascus

    ANKARA, October 14th. The Turkish publication Yenischafak claims that Russian citizens on board the detained aircraft work in the special services of the Russian Federation. According to the newspaper, agents followed in Damascus to establish the identities of Russian citizens fighting against the regime of President Bashar al-Assad.

    According to Yenishafak, the Russian special services intended to find out the identities of three hundred Chechen fighters who had acted in the ranks of the armed forces of the Syrian opposition. For this purpose, 17 officers of the Federal Security Service (FSB) went to Syria, flying an airplane of the Syrian airline Syrian Air, which, according to an official statement from the Turkish authorities, also transported ammunition and other military equipment.

    FSB officers had diplomatic passports, so they were not screened at Ankara airport, "Today's Zaman" notes.

    On October 12, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that "of course, there weren’t and couldn’t be any weapons on this plane." According to him, on board were electrical equipment for the radar. This is dual-use equipment, but “not prohibited by any international conventions.” The plane landed because it knew that it was not doing anything illegal, notes Lavrov.
    Read more: http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2012/10/14/1046033.html

  • Wanderer1980
    Wanderer1980 15 October 2012 18: 39 New
    +3
    In Aleppo, the rebels were armed with huge slingshots used instead of mortars for hidden shelling from shelters, positions of fighters of the Syrian government army, grenades and improvised explosive devices
    1. tekinoral
      tekinoral 15 October 2012 22: 45 New
      -1
      and everyone says that they have modern weapons
      1. Wanderer1980
        Wanderer1980 15 October 2012 23: 33 New
        0
        «I assure you: no one should worry about the state of Russian-Turkish relations. They develop in a sustainable and solid manner.", - said Lavrov, adding that the cargo on board and seized by the Turkish special services,"belonged to a Russian organization, was legal, legally transported and destined for the Syrian side", So what "Russia would still like to Get an explanation from Turkey on this incident."...

        Knowledgeable people will not let lie - diplomats have their own language.
        Not clear to everyone, but very clear and secret, polished for centuries.

        Say if "the meeting was held in a fraternal, cordial atmosphere", then everything’s better nowhere.
        If only infraternal"or only"heart"- too, but with shades.
        If in "companionship"- about the same, but the shades are juicier.
        If in "business constructive"- not everything is good, but the dialogue is obtained.
        If only inconstructive"then it starts to turn out.
        And if only in "business"then the agenda agreed.
        Etc. Up to "in an atmosphere of mutual tension", which sounded only once, in 1979, and then the whole world was waiting for war. But, fortunately, it worked out.

        By some nuances, one can judge the political weight of the parties. For those who are stronger, some formulations, for equals - others, for the weak and dependent - third. And, as you wish, miserable, mumbling "still would like“as far as I know, it was the first time in the history of Russia. Moreover, in the context of relations with Turkey. Where, even at a time when Porta was still really scary, the Russian ambassadors led to the Seven-Tower Castle spoke down with the sultans and great viziers And nothing else, because in diplomacy the price of deflection is too high.

        Involuntarily, I wonder: maybe Mr. Erdogan is right?
        Maybe, indeed, the time has come to reformat the UN Security Council, strengthening it with serious, respectable, self-respecting states, such as Turkey, and putting out any inflated, but little capable trifle. Let him wait in the hallway. And if you don’t like it, let it come out and have a smoke. Smoking, however, kills, but during life calms ...
        1. Odessa
          Odessa 16 October 2012 01: 06 New
          +2
          Wanderer1980,
          Let him wait in the hallway. And if you don’t like it, let it come out and have a smoke. Smoking, however, kills, but during life calms ...

          Fine swimming, this is the East! wassat
          The generator of Arab thought!
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 16 October 2012 01: 10 New
            0
            Please excuse me, but you are insulting the nation.
            1. Odessa
              Odessa 16 October 2012 01: 13 New
              +1
              DIMS,
              Please excuse me, but you are insulting the nation.

              If you write, then in the next, please clarify who you are contacting.
              This is not an insult, it is a fact.
              1. DIMS
                DIMS 16 October 2012 01: 23 New
                0
                Quote: Odessa
                If you write, then in the next, please clarify who you are contacting.

                Deja vu. Sorry, but I usually communicate on a normal computer, I didn’t think about it.

                As for the facts, do you use Roman numerals?
                Генератор арабских мыслей1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0
                1. Odessa
                  Odessa 16 October 2012 01: 33 New
                  +1
                  DIMS
                  And they didn’t think, and they forgot, maybe there’s enough clowning on the site today, especially looking at the night?
                  Генератор арабских мыслей1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0

                  Start! wassat
                  Lock yourself in Google, and find the numbers written by the Arabs. And in some Arab countries, even car signs, i.e. car numbers, are written by them.
                  Yours! smile
                  1. DIMS
                    DIMS 16 October 2012 01: 41 New
                    0
                    Clowning while Israeli.

                    I am not an Arab, I am a Belarusian. Check with your predecessor. Damn, you got a really dumb team there today
                    1. Odessa
                      Odessa 16 October 2012 01: 53 New
                      +2
                      DIMS,
                      Clowning while Israeli.

                      No, I didn’t put on a clown wig today)))))))))))))))))
                      I am not an Arab, I am a Belarusian.

                      Great, what else can I say here.
                      Ask your predecessor

                      You can handle it, but what, and who exactly?
                      Damn, you got a really dumb team there today

                      What is it all about? This is not the team where the call sign is: Smile and wave, everyone is already asleep, so thank you for talking about nothing.
                      Goodnight!
                    2. DIMS
                      DIMS 16 October 2012 02: 10 New
                      0
                      Quote: Odessa
                      Great, what else can I say here.

                      Very good question
              2. Pimply
                Pimply 16 October 2012 01: 52 New
                +1
                ٠ ١ ٢ ٣ ٤ ٥ ٦ ٧ ٨ ٩


                Then so
              3. Karish
                Karish 16 October 2012 14: 22 New
                +2
                Quote: DIMS
                As for the facts, do you use Roman numerals?
                Генератор арабских мыслей1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0

                These are not Arabic numbers, the Indians came up with a record from 1 to 10 and most importantly 0, which increases the value of the number by an order of magnitude. etc. - but the main thing before them was not zero. And their numbers look completely different.
                Indo-Arabic numerals used in the Arab countries of Asia and Egypt ٠ ١ ٢ ٣ ٤ ٥ ٦ ٧ ٨ ٩
  • Odessa
    Odessa 16 October 2012 00: 28 New
    +1
    Wanderer1980,
    In Aleppo, the rebels were armed with huge slingshots used instead of mortars for hidden shelling from shelters, positions of fighters of the Syrian government army, grenades and improvised explosive devices

    Oh, I like similar Arab military developments, I’m just delighted with them. And the Syrian anti-sniper still causes a smile when I look at the pictures. It’s good that they didn’t think of raising air defense and aviation.
    That will be a joke if the positioner grip weakens)))))))))))))
  • PSih2097
    PSih2097 16 October 2012 01: 54 New
    0
    enormous slingshots used instead of mortars

    have played enough in the black ops spell 1 ... mission escape from the zone.
  • Gluxar
    Gluxar 17 October 2012 23: 08 New
    0
    Kurds are not a regular army with tanks and air defense. And the Turks are not going smoothly with the Turks, despite the obvious fire superiority, the loss of sides is comparable. In the event of a war with Syria, Turkish forces on two fronts may not be enough.
  • nycsson
    nycsson 15 October 2012 08: 08 New
    +6
    Reports of combat activity are not encouraging! crying Bandits and their sponsors do their dirty deeds!
  • semenar
    semenar 15 October 2012 08: 32 New
    +4
    The newest equipment in the air defense forces are complexes of the S-300V and S-300P families,
    What kind of nonsense?
  • Lexx
    Lexx 15 October 2012 08: 33 New
    +1
    modernized captured BTR-60 Soviet-made.


    This is where the Turks got the “trophies”?

    Maybe we are talking about the BTR-80, a significant amount of which was sold in the 90s.?
    1. Speedy
      Speedy 15 October 2012 08: 39 New
      +2
      Germany actively fused them with the legacy of the GDR ....
    2. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 16 October 2012 21: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Lexx
      This is where the Turks got the “trophies”?

      I’m surprised that they and Syria have the Kornet ATGM. For 19 years of military service, I saw it only in pictures and videos, as well as RPG29 and BukM1 air defense systems, and in our brigades it's no secret to anyone still, “Metis”, “Bassoons” and RPG-7 even go without tandem warheads.
  • nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 15 October 2012 08: 34 New
    +2
    The combat readiness of the army and commanders!
    Ah, they’re fighting not by numbers, but by skill! angry
  • Login_Off
    Login_Off 15 October 2012 08: 58 New
    +10
    Yes, what kind of comparison can we talk about, if Turkey attacks Syria, then all NATO will fight on the side of Turkey !!!
    As a result, NATO and Syria must be compared, and this is already nonsense, because comparing a mosquito and an elephant can be just as successful.
    1. Tirpitz
      Tirpitz 15 October 2012 09: 34 New
      +3
      Here you are right. And if NATO does not attack Syria, then they will make up for the Turkish losses with incredible speed. And who will help Syria?
    2. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 15 October 2012 17: 14 New
      +2
      Login_Off,

      Mistake, crept in! Turkey will not attack Syria! and then NATO will help them! NO! The charter of NATO says "...... to help if a third country attacks an NATO member !!!"
      Otherwise: THIS IS A BLASTING AGGRESSOR !!!
      1. Sandov
        Sandov 15 October 2012 20: 30 New
        +1
        nickname 1 and 2,
        For Amers, the NATO charter is an empty phrase. They do what is beneficial to them.
      2. Rumata
        Rumata 15 October 2012 21: 02 New
        0
        Quote: nick 1 and 2
        Mistake, crept in! Turkey will not attack Syria! and then NATO will help them! NO! The charter of NATO says "...... to help if a third country attacks an NATO member !!!"
        Otherwise: THIS IS A BLASTING AGGRESSOR !!!

        Is shelling the territory of state "T" from the territory of state "C" not considered aggression? This is a real attack, it is not only in the case of the shelling of Israel from Gaza, there are defenders from the invaders and real patriots, and in any other case, the attack and Turkey may require assistance from NATO ...
        1. DIMS
          DIMS 15 October 2012 21: 15 New
          0
          Sorry, but you better not raise this topic.
          Do you know who is friend? This is the one who gets in a fight for you even when you're wrong.
          Turkish plane has long been shot down
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 15 October 2012 22: 30 New
          0
          Rumata,
          You can pull everything on everything! (condom on the head)
      3. Beck
        Beck 15 October 2012 21: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: nick 1 and 2
        The charter of NATO says "...... to help if a third country attacks an NATO member !!!" Otherwise: IT'S AN EXCELLENT AGGRESSOR !!!


        It is written like this. But there is a nuance.

        Or shelling of Turkish territory made foolish Syrian troops. Or is it a provocation of the rebels. But NATO, if desired, will not understand who did it.

        Is there a shelling of Turkey? - There is. So Turkey was attacked. So the NATO charter is valid since a third country (Syria) attacked a NATO member.

        That’s the reason for pushing the charter in the presence of shelling of Turkey.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 October 2012 21: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: Beck

          Is there a shelling of Turkey? - There is. So Turkey was attacked. So the NATO charter is valid since a third country (Syria) attacked a NATO member.


          Simplify. And much
          1. DIMS
            DIMS 15 October 2012 21: 17 New
            0
            Suffice it to recall the Falkland ..
          2. Beck
            Beck 15 October 2012 21: 34 New
            +2
            Pimply.

            Clearly, I’m simplifying the matter. But the base, if desired, can be sucked out not only from the shelling, but also from the finger.

            So the war between Turkey and Syria may not be. We are all here discussing the possibilities of development of events and options for action.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 04 New
              +1
              If desired, yes. The NATO charter is good in that it can be interpreted in different ways, depending on the situation, the desires and capabilities of the organization's members.
          3. Insurgent
            Insurgent 15 October 2012 23: 24 New
            +1
            This and provocation can be terrorists
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 15 October 2012 22: 35 New
          +1
          Beck,
          But what about - an adequate answer ???
          Swing a penknife ... - Remember?
          Horror movies ....?
  • nycsson
    nycsson 15 October 2012 09: 02 New
    +3
    http://warfiles.ru/show-15370-iran-zhizn-ili-smert.html

    A very good movie! I recommend a look!
    1. terminator_163
      terminator_163 15 October 2012 17: 45 New
      0
      Quote: nycsson
      A very good movie! I recommend a look!

      Thanks for the link))) I didn’t find out anything new, but put it on the shelves!
  • Beck
    Beck 15 October 2012 09: 07 New
    +2
    With such not very modern armaments of both sides, the fighting spirit of the soldiers and the discipline of the execution of orders will play a decisive role.

    The fighting spirit of the Arab soldiers and the discipline of their execution of orders are not known for the better. This is evident from the Arab-Israeli wars, when numerically superior to the army. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, acting simultaneously, were unable to fulfill half of the tasks assigned to them. As well as the 1st and 2nd Iraqi wars, when whole Iraqi divisions were surrendered, and the Iraqi fighters sent on missions, without accepting the battle, flew to Iran and landed on the airfields there.

    The morale of the Turkish soldiers is known from history, but not currently known. The Turkish army has not had combat experience since the end of the First World War. The fighting in Cyprus in 1974 cannot be called a combat experience. There most likely took place anti-partisan operations.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 October 2012 09: 21 New
      +4
      And it is possible about the lack of combat experience in the Turkish army again 8) The Turks, for a minute, fought in Korea, Afghanistan, are actively fighting the Kurds. This can hardly be called a lack of combat experience. Then it turns out that the Russian army, for example, has almost no besides the five-day war.
      1. Beck
        Beck 15 October 2012 09: 54 New
        +3
        Pimply.

        I was referring to large-scale military operations .. In Korea, it seems that there was no Turkish division either. Afghan. So the Kazakhstani military contingent in the battalion in Afghanistan was. I stood there for a year, at some base, and left. But this is not a combat experience.

        In addition, in my first koment, I wrote not about fighting experience, but about fighting spirit. This is a type of mentality. So, the Turkish army has not had any military clashes recently to confirm the presence or absence of the fighting spirit of the past - the spirit of the Sipahs, the Janissaries. I anticipate. Janissaries were formed mainly from the Slavic boys of the Balkans trained and educated in the cadet corps. But fighting spirit was inculcated in them Turkish.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 October 2012 10: 04 New
          +1
          About morale - by the way, there is an interesting book by a French general

          http://david-2.livejournal.com/350310.html
          http://david-2.livejournal.com/350744.html

          Clément Grancourt "La tactique au Levant"

          There are some more interesting characteristics. But it is, for general development.
          1. Beck
            Beck 15 October 2012 10: 08 New
            +4
            Pimple

            Thanks for the links, read.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 15 October 2012 10: 12 New
              +3
              You can find the rest by the same name and surname via Google - there are interesting characteristics of Syrians, local Armenians, Druze and Alawites
              1. Beck
                Beck 15 October 2012 11: 15 New
                +2
                Pimply.

                By your insistence on fighting spirit, you can assume a kind of secret desire. That the fighting spirit of the Arabs is not so weak and the victory over them is not so simple. I agree, but still the height is not the same. A must read.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 15 October 2012 17: 25 New
                  0
                  Arabs have always fought well if you talk about it, and victories to the same Israel were very difficult
                  1. Beck
                    Beck 15 October 2012 20: 28 New
                    +1
                    Pimply.

                    The victories to Israel, of course, were not easy. For him, every war is like the last battle. Or. Or.

                    By the way, the ancient Turks had about the same, but in the offensive. For example, the Seljuk Turks, in their expansion into Mesopatamia, moved all the people. There is an army ahead, behind a convoy with women and children .. And each battle is like the last. Defeat and end of the train. Like that.
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 15 October 2012 11: 07 New
        -4
        Quote: Pimply
        fought in Korea



        The Turkish contingent in the Korean War became famous for courage and devotion. They never fled even in the face of crushing North Korean or Chinese mass attacks. They were proud of their melee art, especially the possession of a bayonet. I remember one interview with a Turkish officer in Korea who explained that Turkish bayonets are the best because they have a groove, so that blood and air pass through the wounds they cause, and therefore they do not get stuck in the body like American bayonets.

        Turkish prisoners of war became one of the most striking phenomena of the Korean war. As some of you already know, the US and British prisoners of war, the largest contingent, have shown themselves not in the best way. Almost 40% of prisoners of war died, mainly from apathy and depression. The morale of rank-and-file employees in prisoner of war camps was broken; there was nowhere to run, and dozens of captured American soldiers became traitors.

        Turkish prisoners of war distinguished themselves completely differently. None of them died from natural causes - their comrades did not let them die. The Turks shared rations with each other, looked after the sick and kept pride.

        In the end, Chinese propaganda officers abandoned their attempts to crush the Turks.

        None of the Turkish prisoners became a traitor. One of them began to think about it - but, as his comrades explained in the post-war interviews, they could not let him disgrace them and therefore strangled him “regretfully” before he could communicate with the Chinese guards.
        http://war-nerd.narod.ru/articles/2005-04-22.htm




        39. Tired of long pedestrian crossings, a Turkish soldier in the UN forces is sitting on a horse, which he took from the enemy in Korea on May 5, 1951. He attacked the Chinese in ambush and captured his horse in order to escort the stragglers to the scene. (AP Photo / Robert Schutz)
        http://bigpicture.ru/?p=64344
        1. подводник
          подводник 15 October 2012 11: 45 New
          +6
          Yarbay

          I didn’t mean to offend you, BUT!
          It's too much like ..... a fairy tale (to put it mildly) ..... Hollywood nervously smokes aside ....
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 15 October 2012 12: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: submariner
            I didn’t mean to offend you, BUT!
            It's too much like ..... a fairy tale (to put it mildly) ..... Hollywood nervously smokes aside ...

            Dear Vladimir!
            You have not offended me at all!
            The fact is that I have been at this forum for almost half a year and have always seen the humiliation and not knowledge of members of the forum about the Turkish army !!
            There is a clear underestimation here, and therefore I want many to see what really is!
            It may seem to you subjective, but I saw a Turkish soldier and officer, shared bread with them and I am well acquainted with their qualities and level of training!
            I give you my opinion, you have the opportunity to compare!
            And to agree or not your right!
            here's another article
            http://www.bratishka.ru/archiv/2005/9/2005_9_10.php
            1. подводник
              подводник 15 October 2012 12: 33 New
              +3
              I consider you a person who has seen a lot in life and knows everything. However, I don’t understand, you idolize the Turkish soldier and officer, speak about their abilities and qualities, but with what do you compare them: with the Russian army, with the Azerbaijan, with the American or with whom still? Where do the legs grow from? Have you served?
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 15 October 2012 13: 01 New
                0
                Quote: submariner
                what do you compare them with: with the Russian army, with the Azerbaijan, with the American or with whom else?

                in preparation I would compare it with the best armies in the world, in spirit with the Soviet!
                Alas, I see how they have been ruining the Russian one for the past 20 years !!
                1. подводник
                  подводник 15 October 2012 13: 05 New
                  +1
                  Thank you! The answer is worthy.
                2. thatupac
                  thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 37 New
                  -1
                  It would be something to ruin ...
                3. terminator_163
                  terminator_163 15 October 2012 17: 53 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Alas, I see how they have been ruining the Russian one for the past 20 years !!

                  20 years to fall apart and cannot ruin. Now the reverse process has begun, and the morale of Russian soldiers has been high at all times, including recent years. Chechnya is an example of this!
              2. thatupac
                thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 13 New
                0
                Yes, for him, everything Turkish is super-duper. Now, if everything is so fine, then why has Azerbaijan not yet joined autonomy in Turkey itself as an autonomy? Unclear...
              3. tekinoral
                tekinoral 15 October 2012 14: 10 New
                -3
                we even have women stronger than American soldiers smile
            2. nickname 1 and 2
              nickname 1 and 2 15 October 2012 17: 38 New
              +1
              Yarbay,

              Well, Turk, a good warrior - this truth has been known for a long time! However, they beat us, we are a Turk!

              And, it was - a long time ago! Now it’s not that Russian soldier (maybe), but not that Turkish either !!!!
              And you can’t talk totally appreciated! No, such an assessment! Brilliant A, Suvorov, proved this, forever! But with general, other things being equal (training, health, preparation, etc.), Suvorov even preferred one or the other! But these are special cases and subjective!
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 15 October 2012 17: 48 New
                +3
                Quote: nick 1 and 2
                Well, Turk, a good warrior - this truth has been known for a long time!

                I didn’t read something here on the forum for 6 months !!
                Quote: nick 1 and 2
                However, they beat us, we are a Turk!

                Nobody argues with this!
                Quote: nick 1 and 2
                And you can’t talk totally appreciated! No, such an assessment!

                I don’t totally evaluate, I say what I saw and see !!
                And I wrote above that for many my view may seem subjective and far from the truth, but I'm not talking from the ceiling !!
                Your right to evaluate my opinion as you wish!
              2. hristoforos
                hristoforos 16 October 2012 00: 43 New
                -5
                Turk is a good warrior, something I can not believe! maybe you confuse something? Little Greece, always opposed them! without the help of others, we would never have been taken !!! I think everyone knows the story.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 16 October 2012 01: 11 New
                  +5
                  Quote: hristoforos
                  Little Greece, always opposed them! without the help of others, we would never have been taken !!! I think everyone knows the story.


                  Dear, do not offend the story. Confronted of course, but from 1453 to 1830, Greece was part of the Ottoman Empire.
                  1. Odessa
                    Odessa 16 October 2012 01: 16 New
                    +4
                    Beck,
                    Dear, do not offend the story. Confronted of course, but from 1453 to 1830, Greece was part of the Ottoman Empire.

                    That's right, they still have a territorial dispute about the island.
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 16 October 2012 01: 31 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Odessa
                      That's right, they still have a territorial dispute about the island.


                      No catch. It is of course an event. For the first time, a female marshal noticed a junior lieutenant.
                      1. Odessa
                        Odessa 16 October 2012 01: 37 New
                        +2
                        Beck,
                        No catch. It is of course an event. For the first time, a female marshal noticed a junior lieutenant.

                        I’ve added some of your comments before, and the linear rating has absolutely nothing to do with it.))))))))))))))))))))))
                      2. Beck
                        Beck 16 October 2012 01: 47 New
                        0
                        Quote: Odessa
                        I’ve added some of your comments before, and the linear rating has absolutely nothing to do with it.))))))))))))))))))))))


                        So I had no shoulder straps in mind. I meant a woman.
                2. hristoforos
                  hristoforos 16 October 2012 19: 50 New
                  0
                  I don’t know which of us offends her! you probably don’t remember why and how Byzantium fell, we just need to choose our friends better !!!
      3. Green
        Green 15 October 2012 12: 57 New
        +7
        Alibek, somewhere your same koment saw that anyone could be broken. And then there is such a naive confidence about "not a single traitor." But seriously, the Turkish army is probably the most efficient after the US Army. The Turkish nation was formed as a nation of warriors. With excellent traditions and excellent fighting spirit. The fact that the two wars swept the last, (WW1 & WW2) is only thanks to Islam. (Lost the pace of scientific and technological development) Alas, the reality is that once scientifically advanced nations that gave the world fundamental knowledge in astronomy, physics, mathematics, engineering, Arabs and Turks preserved their development in a destructive (for 21 centuries) archaic Islamic culture. Alas, today's unreformed Islam (with all due respect) is a big stick in the wheel.
        1. Beck
          Beck 15 October 2012 13: 16 New
          +5
          Quote: Verde
          Alas, the reality is that once scientifically advanced nations that gave the world fundamental knowledge in astronomy, physics, mathematics, engineering, Arabs and Turks preserved their development in a destructive (for 21 centuries) archaic Islamic culture.


          I will add. From the 7th century, the formation of Islam, and until the 13th century, the Middle East and Europe were at approximately the same level of development. Even the Middle East was ahead. What allowed Europe in 13-17 centuries to make such a big leap and get ahead of the Middle East in all respects? In my opinion, only one thing. This is much less orthodoxy and conservatism of Christianity than Islam. It cannot be assumed that brains were better in Europe. Biology is scattered all over the world with the same principle.
          1. Green
            Green 15 October 2012 13: 58 New
            +4
            Allow the drunken obscurantists to power in Israel, and in ten years there will be no advanced technologies, no prosperity, no Israel itself. And about biology, that's right. Now the Arabs are perceived as a stupid incapable gathering, but they laid the foundation for all scientific knowledge and prepared the foundation for the Renaissance. Alas, you are absolutely right.
          2. Rumata
            Rumata 15 October 2012 14: 05 New
            0
            Quote: Beck
            then much less orthodoxy and conservatism of Christianity than Islam

            Moreover, the less conservative Christianity became, the faster science developed, it is quite possible that already in the 14-15th century an industrial revolution could have occurred if it had not been for the inhibition of science.

            For example, Charles Darwin did not publish his book for a very long time because his wife was a very religious person and did not want to offend her feelings, but we can say that at some point she persuaded him to publish the work, this is a change in the attitude of believers to science and gave the very impetus.
            1. Green
              Green 15 October 2012 14: 11 New
              +3
              Shalom Golanchik. Religion for 700 years has halted progress in Europe. But then there was no nuclear weapons. 6000000 women were burned and tortured, thousands of scientists. But today we have a hellish cocktail of nuclear weapons + religion. Not the best combination. Maybe Lenin was right when he ordered Popov, rabbis and mule to shoot in the same row?
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 15 October 2012 17: 18 New
                0
                Quote: Verde
                Maybe Lenin was right when he ordered Popov, rabbis and mule to shoot in the same row?

                Or was Stalin right when they shot dissenters, dissenters and turned up arm? From one to the other, one tiny little step.
                First of all, one should listen to one’s conscience.
            2. Beck
              Beck 15 October 2012 16: 59 New
              +2
              Rumate.

              About the industrial revolution. It turns out that in such a case there is a moment of luck and chance.

              Example. 2000 years ago, the ancient Greek mechanic Geron of Alexandria lived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. The greatest mechanic and mathematician of the ancient world. In modern terms, he was both a theorist and an experimenter all rolled into one. He wrote fundamental scientific works and set up experiments.

              He cast the sphere. Set the sphere on the axis. At opposite points of the sphere, two tubes bent in opposite directions were attached. He poured water into the sphere. A fire was set up under the sphere. The water boiled. Steam began to break out of the pipes. The sphere spun on the axis. It was a toy.

              Not enough genius Heron a little bit. This is attached to the axis of the rotating sphere of the working body. Then the couple’s century would not be the 19th century, but 1. And wherever humanity would be now, there wouldn’t be enough imagination. After all, this working body, its study and improvement would give an unimaginable impetus to gas hydrodynamics and everything else.
              1. Rumata
                Rumata 15 October 2012 21: 21 New
                +2
                Quote: Beck

                About the industrial revolution. It turns out that in such a case there is a moment of luck and chance.

                There are accidents and there is a general vector of development. There is such an interesting field as the philosophy of science, at one time a little delving into it, I discovered a lot for myself. For example, why neither Chinese nor Arab nor more ancient civilizations developed science in our understanding of it. For thousands of years, they have achieved a lot of things, but they did not create an experimental science, everything was a guessing method. Only in Europe there were suitable conditions for something that the Greeks created and adopted the Muslims once again took root in Europe and gave a modern leap. For 200-300 years they discovered and created more than 3000 years before that, all because of the correct methodology, observation ---> hypothesis explaining what they observe ---> experiment in an attempt to confirm the validity of the hypothesis and so on.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 16 October 2012 00: 09 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Rumata
                  Only in Europe were there suitable conditions for something that the Greeks created


                  Terms and Galileo. Galileo's research in the 14th century affirmed in science the priority in proving theory - experiment. After Galileo, there were no blind references to authorities. In particular, on the authority of Aristotle about the geocentric system of the world. Galileo was a supporter of the heliocentric system.

                  With his experiments, Galileo refuted the speculative metaphysics of Aristotle, who ruled science for a millennium. The proof was not authority, but an experiment.
                  1. Rumata
                    Rumata 16 October 2012 00: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: Beck
                    Terms and Galileo.

                    Yes, Galileo greatly strengthened the concept of the experiment itself, but in general, the methodology of science was greatly influenced by the work of Descartes, Bacon and later Popper and others, they changed the approach and scientists like Galileo, Copernicus, Keppler, Gene, adopted it ..
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 16 October 2012 01: 03 New
                      +2
                      Rumatu.

                      I do not argue. Great were the people.
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 15 October 2012 13: 20 New
          +4
          Quote: Verde
          And here is such a naive confidence about "not a single traitor"

          this is not my article!
          I’m still sure that you can break 90 percent of people and make them do something that they would never do !!
          Quote: Verde
          Alas, today's unreformed Islam (with all due respect) is a big stick in the wheel.

          What you are talking about is not Islam, but anti Islam !!
          That is, thanks to the advertising of these wah-hobbits, they are shown to the whole world as carriers of * pure * Islam!
          I almost agree with the rest!
      4. Pimply
        Pimply 15 October 2012 17: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Yarbay
        Almost 40% of prisoners of war died, mainly from apathy and depression.

        Alibek, forgive me, but this text cannot be seriously read. This is agitation.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 15 October 2012 17: 54 New
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          Alibek, forgive me, but this text cannot be seriously read. This is agitation.

          Yes, do not apologize !!
          What is agitation ??
          I found on the internet in Russian about Turkish soldiers, the author is a foreigner !!
          Sites are not Turkish!
          in Russian there is little, in Turkish a lot, but there is no time to translate!
          And the American seemed to take a picture with the inscription!
          You are free to draw your conclusions !!
          I remember a neighbor who told me that many years ago, thanks to the Chechens, he survived in a camp in Siberia at 37m!
          Almost the same story !!
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 15 October 2012 18: 45 New
            0
            Alibek. To begin with, Gary Brecher, aka John Dolan, an English professor of literature, famous for his very odious articles, is an ardent anti-Americanist. For the sake of his goals - and he denotes them very honestly: "kick America's ass", he does not neglect anything. Through this prism go all his articles. He never had any relation to the army, he was not engaged in serious research, he simply publishes columns on wars "with the eyes of a nerd," "war with the eyes of a nerd." This has the same relation to journalism as the article, say, about Baskov’s wedding with Kirkorov, and at least to real historical facts.

            As a military medic, I’ll tell you “40% of prisoners of war died, mainly from apathy and depression” - this is such nonsense that I have not read for a long time.

            I’m sure that you can find many more intelligible sources about the courage of the Turkish military than the articles of this “author” - they, sorry, almost deserve attention
    2. petro
      petro 15 October 2012 14: 45 New
      0
      Did you consciously miss the fighting in Chechnya or simply forget?
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 15 October 2012 09: 56 New
    -3
    Quote: Beck
    The morale of the Turkish soldiers is known from history, but not currently known.

    I assure you, it is very high !! The officer corps is competent, united and with high moral qualities!
    with military experience I agree with Pupyrchaty, they have constant fighting!

    Quote: Beck
    soldier morale and discipline of execution of orders.

    it's called * shooting trust *!
    the commander here offers those who are not sure to move away, but none of the soldiers left!
    1. Beck
      Beck 15 October 2012 09: 58 New
      +2
      Yarba.

      Respected. I hope too. After all, the fighting spirit of the Turks cannot completely disappear. I wrote above because of caution and not to show bias.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 15 October 2012 10: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: Beck
        Respected. I hope too. After all, the fighting spirit of the Turks cannot completely disappear. I wrote above because of caution and not to show bias.

        I understand you!
        It’s just that I once had the Honor with my own eyes to see this and amazed for life !!
        In a sense, I am delighted with the attitude towards the army, towards the homeland, and in general I was impressed by the attitude towards soldiers by ordinary people !!
        I saw this in the days of the USSR is when anyone feeds a soldier, they give way to public transport and much more !!
        1. Green
          Green 15 October 2012 13: 03 New
          +4
          It is only a pity that everything progressive that Ataturk laid down wants to screw Erdogan with his Islamists. Now Turkey is strong, but the stronger the grip of the Islamists on the neck of the Turkish people, the final there will be more catastrophic for Turkey. Syria will certainly roll out. But if, having entered Syria, and having acquired a common border with Israel, they will continue an unscrupulous and irresponsible policy of confrontation, my sympathies will be with the Israelis. Although in any case it will be a huge disaster for both the Turks and the Jews.
        2. thatupac
          thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 18 New
          +4
          This is all because the Turks dream and dream of a new Ottoman Empire. They want the same Georgian Adjara and Azerbaijan to become Turkish territories. But in practice, nothing can blather without the permission of the United States. Like the owner’s court dogs ...
    2. подводник
      подводник 15 October 2012 11: 41 New
      +5
      Yarbay
      I assure you, very high !! ..........
      Wait and see....
      The officer corps is competent, united and with high moral qualities! ....
      Respected comment then, for what and against whom, did you want and want to carry out a military coup a part of this aforementioned corps the other day?
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 15 October 2012 11: 53 New
        0
        Quote: submariner
        Wait and see....

        in terms of??
        Quote: submariner
        Dear comment, then, for the sake of what and against whom, did you want and want to carry out a military coup a part of this aforementioned corps the other day?

        To do this, dear, you need to know the history of these events, goals and reasons, as well as the position of the army in the country, its status according to the Constitution !!!
        According to the Constitution, the Turkish army has the right and the obligation to prevent this in the event of a threat of demolition of the system or a threat to statehood !!
        All coups were in those cases when the country rolled into the abyss of civil war between the left and right forces !!
        The fact that you are talking about the other day is not proven and I do not believe we would like to do it !!
        This is just billing !!
        At one time, the military forced the Islamist Prime Minister Erbakan to resign !!
        and the current government, using the support of the United States for its position on world issues, has decided to take revenge and change the role of the military in society!
        So the moral qualities are really high!
        with respect!
        1. подводник
          подводник 15 October 2012 12: 19 New
          +2
          We’ll wait and see in the sense that the situation in relations between Turkey and Syria is extremely tense. I consider the “denouement” or “the plot” to be close.
          And in Russia, in the autumn, they consider chickens ...
          Yours!
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 15 October 2012 12: 41 New
            +1
            This is the funeral of the deceased soldier, it’s a pity the full version doesn’t download!
            1. подводник
              подводник 15 October 2012 12: 52 New
              +4
              Respected it doesn’t tell me anything.
              Each country has its own farewell ceremony and the funeral of soldiers.
              In Turkey, his own, in America his own in Syria (the other day showed the funeral of a senior female officer to him dead applauded)
              In each country, differently .... there is a ceremony
              Only now, in long-suffering Russia, which has gone through so many troubles, they are so used to it that this feeling of trouble from losing a person is so dulled that it only touches the heart of the deceased’s relatives and friends ..
              Unfortunately!

              So what do you think the superiority of the Turkish army is expressed in?
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 15 October 2012 13: 13 New
                -1
                Quote: submariner

                So what do you think the superiority of the Turkish army is expressed in?

                in discipline, in a fighting spirit and in an incredible, simply admiring love for the Motherland !!
                I wanted to show you another clip, it did not fit!
                You will never see the parents of the deceased soldier blame the commanders for something after the soldier’s death (once I saw in one clip), usually everyone says - * if only Motherland lived *, the very first slogan of the Turk is * Onçe Veten *, which in translation means * First Homeland * or Everything for the Homeland!
                Soldiers take military service very seriously !!
                In general, I can talk about this for hours!
                1. подводник
                  подводник 15 October 2012 13: 18 New
                  +1
                  Thank you!
                  No more questions.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 13: 50 New
                    +1
                    Quote: submariner
                    Thank you!
                    No more questions.

                    Yes, not for that!
                    Thank you for the normal discussion!
                    [media = http: //youtu.be/5Zq8wBPEfU0]
                    I wanted to show it!
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 15 October 2012 13: 54 New
                      0
                      http://youtu.be/5Zq8wBPEfU0
                    2. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 15 October 2012 14: 04 New
                      0
                      [media = http: //youtu.be/5Zq8wBPEfU0]
                    3. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 15 October 2012 21: 36 New
                      0
                      [media = media = http: //you.tube/5Zq8wBPEfU0]
                    4. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 15 October 2012 21: 43 New
                      0
                      [media = http: //you.tube/5Zq8wBPEfU0]
                2. thatupac
                  thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 41 New
                  +2
                  To know how soldiers relate to their officers and generally to the service, one must directly serve in the Turkish army and know the whole situation from the inside, and not be carried on propaganda.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 October 2012 13: 58 New
                    -1
                    Quote: thatupac
                    know the whole situation from the inside,

                    I know the whole situation from the inside!
              2. thatupac
                thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 20 New
                +3
                For him, the superiority of the Turkish Army seems to be that Turkey is the elder brother for Azerbaijan. That's all.
                1. Yeraz
                  Yeraz 15 October 2012 14: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: thatupac
                  For him, the superiority of the Turkish Army seems to be that Turkey is the elder brother for Azerbaijan. That's all.

                  Believe us, our opinion is not subjective. We simply can compare the attitude of the soldiers to the service of the population towards the army and the homeland because of the familiarity with the Russian army. The patriotism of the former countries of the union can not be compared with Turkish.
              3. tekinoral
                tekinoral 15 October 2012 14: 38 New
                +1
                [media = http: //youtu.be/5Zq8wBPEfU0]

                where else in the army so send their children
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 15 October 2012 14: 52 New
                  0
                  [media = http: //youtu.be/5Zq8wBPEfU0]
            2. thatupac
              thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 39 New
              +1
              Window dressing. The funeral was used to show the militaristic mood of Turkey.
              1. Yeraz
                Yeraz 15 October 2012 14: 08 New
                0
                Quote: thatupac
                Window dressing. The funeral was used to show the militaristic mood of Turkey.

                You are mistaken greatly. They have many martyrs who fell in the fight against terrorists and all the funerals are the same. For you it is amazing you have not seen this. And we always saw Turks like that.
              2. tekinoral
                tekinoral 15 October 2012 14: 08 New
                -1
                wherever you saw the general cry for his soldier?
                1. thatupac
                  thatupac 15 October 2012 19: 41 New
                  -3
                  Putin also "cried" when he went out to the crowd after announcing that he had again become president of the Russian Federation ... Screening.
                  1. Rumata
                    Rumata 15 October 2012 21: 26 New
                    -3
                    Quote: thatupac
                    Putin also "cried" when he went out to the crowd after announcing that he had again become president of the Russian Federation ... Screening.

                    He was just really surprised because he did not expect that he would win.
    3. Yarbay
      Yarbay 15 October 2012 21: 51 New
      +2
      Here it turns out the video did not come out!
  • nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 15 October 2012 17: 22 New
    0
    Beck,

    Yes, no one will attack anyone! Syria is not suicides! And Turkey - they will give it a definition - the aggressor! At the UN! And NATO, if they also fit in - AGGRESSOR!

    Only when repelling an attack does the NATO treaty !!!!! fool
    1. Sandov
      Sandov 15 October 2012 20: 44 New
      0
      nickname 1 and 2,
      Yes, they wanted to spit on compliance with formalities.
  • baltika-18
    baltika-18 15 October 2012 09: 33 New
    +6
    Given that Turkey is a NATO member, even in case of loss, the stockpiles of weapons will easily resume, which can not be said about Syria. So in the event of a direct military conflict, Syria will not have so many chances to resist. Therefore, there is no way to allow military action, here Russia should step up its activities by any means, both diplomatic, and try to help with the supply of weapons.
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 15 October 2012 09: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: baltika-18
      So in the event of a direct military conflict, Syria will not have so many chances to resist.

      What are the odds? NATO at the full throat said that if necessary they would support Turkey !!! No chance at all !!!
      Quote: baltika-18
      Therefore, military action cannot be allowed in any way; here Russia must intensify its actions by any means, both diplomatic, and try to help with the supply of weapons.

      As for diplomacy, they wanted to choke on it from a high bell tower! No matter how hard we try at the UN, the situation continues to deteriorate. Reports of combat activity speak eloquently about this!
      As for arms deliveries, this is simply not realistic! Remember the helicopters that they tried to deliver on a ship! Or about the last scandal with the forced landing of a Syrian plane! How to get these weapons there ??? There is only one route. Across the Caspian Sea, through Iran and Iraq. And then, if Iraq agrees!
      1. Beck
        Beck 15 October 2012 10: 33 New
        +3
        My guess is mine, not a strategist.

        Supplies may not play a role. Supplies are designed for a long-term military conflict. And any army, at any moment, has a single, double, triple ... ammunition. If the Syrian army did not transfer to the modern doctrine of warfare, but remained at the level of 2MB. (Front line, trenches. How Iraq and Iran and Iraq fought against coalition forces).

        Then Syria will not last long and deliveries will simply be late. Turkey, as a member of NATO, probably adheres to the modern doctrine of airborne operations. It is without trenches, without a front line. This is a massive bombing to the entire operational tactical and strategic depth (the size of Syria allows this). And piercing strikes with mobile land connections in strategic directions. (Actions of coalition forces in the Iraqi wars).
        1. thatupac
          thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 24 New
          +1
          Turkey, consider NATO, has so much money, manpower and equipment that it doesn’t matter what strategy Syrian armed forces will adhere to (2 MV or modern). Anyway, Syria Khan.
          1. Beck
            Beck 15 October 2012 13: 30 New
            0
            Quote: thatupac
            Turkey, consider NATO, has so much money, manpower and equipment that it doesn’t matter what strategy Syrian armed forces will adhere to (2 MV or modern). Anyway, Syria Khan.


            I led to this. What to say about military supplies to Syria or Turkey there is no reason. The war will end before supplies arrive. But in the event that Turkey adheres to the NATO strategy.
      2. baltika-18
        baltika-18 15 October 2012 13: 33 New
        0
        Quote: nycsson
        nycsson

        Aleksey, you're right. Pull it off you have to try by any means.
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 15 October 2012 13: 44 New
          0
          Quote: baltika-18
          To delay it is necessary to try by any means.

          I think that it does not depend on Russia ........
    2. thatupac
      thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 22 New
      +1
      Assad people in the government once said that in the event of an external invasion of Syria, they are ready to use biological weapons. I think that Assad, if he will receive frank khan, and it will be clear that the next Somali-Libyan-Iraqi will be made from Syria, it will be necessary to send his “parcels with a surprise” at parting. To die is like that with music.
  • Trailer
    Trailer 15 October 2012 09: 39 New
    0
    Article is good, thanks! With regards to combat experience - among the Syrians, I think that over the 2 of the year these fierii already had sufficient combat experience, including partisan methods of struggle. As for Turkey, she has good experience in participating in military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, well, plus the Kurds. I would add to the Syrian forces at least 10% of each kind of Iranian troops, because no one has canceled the mutual assistance agreements, and there are no fools in Iran!
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 25 New
      0
      The whole experience is essentially sitting on the territory of bases with a small number of field trips. This is not military experience, but special operations.
    2. Sandov
      Sandov 15 October 2012 20: 48 New
      +2
      Trailer,
      We will have to launch missile strikes on clusters of troops on the border with Syria. It will be very reasonable to stop the desire to fight the nats.
  • tekinoral
    tekinoral 15 October 2012 09: 44 New
    0
    Lavrov: the incident with the plane will not affect relations with Turkey
    According to a senior diplomat, the incident with the Syrian plane in Ankara will not affect the prospects for Russian-Turkish relations. “I assure you that no one should worry about the state of Russian-Turkish relations. They are developing on a sustainable and solid basis, ”ITAR-TASS quoted him as saying.
    In turn, Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn noted that "Turkey and Russia are old friends, and the European Union will do everything in its power to ensure that these friends are together in the future."
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 15 October 2012 09: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: tekinoral
      that “Turkey and Russia are old friends

      Smiled !!! How many times has Russia fought with Turkey ??? They don’t do this with friends .........

      Turkey gave Putin political slap in the face
      The owner of the Kremlin deserves it, the expert of "HP" believes 12.10.12/15/56 XNUMX:XNUMX

      http://warfiles.ru/show-15281-turciya-otvesila-kremlyu-zasluzhennuyu-politichesk
      uyu-opleuhu.html
      1. tekinoral
        tekinoral 15 October 2012 09: 59 New
        -2
        'I didn’t write it, but ITAR-TASS.
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 15 October 2012 10: 06 New
          0
          Quote: tekinoral
          'I didn’t write it, but ITAR-TASS.

          I got it..........
          1. tekinoral
            tekinoral 15 October 2012 10: 34 New
            -1
            no matter how you say, your leaders are more likely to meet with Turkey than with Syria
      2. tekinoral
        tekinoral 15 October 2012 10: 41 New
        0
        and how many times did Iran fight and have nothing friends?
        1. fktrctqxbr
          fktrctqxbr 21 October 2012 23: 41 New
          0
          I am very sorry for the Turkish people, whom the West will say to squabble at that and will and cannot do anything about it.
    2. baltika-18
      baltika-18 15 October 2012 13: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: tekinoral
      Turkey and Russia are old friends, and the European Union will do everything in its power to keep these friends together in the future. ”

      They will be friends. The question price is Syria.
  • Jeen
    Jeen 15 October 2012 09: 53 New
    -11
    And why was it necessary to fence this Sisyphus mountain of the Augean stables?
    Jozhyk understands that Syria, even against Turkey alone, is nothing. But Turkey is NATO. And, even if the other members of the alliance confine themselves only to “lend-lease” support, the whole Syrian question will come down to a dilemma: will Assad manage to escape to the Kremlin, or will they catch him, like Saddam-Gaddafi, “somewhere near Damascus, among endless steppes . And the train went its own way ... "
    Much more remarkable phraseological twist
    Recent months have clearly shown that the forces of Damascus are not inferior to insurgents, and in some cases even win
    This is just a sign!
    It turns out that "the Syrian army" is regular, armed to the teeth and perfectly trained by Soviet advisersnot inferior"partisans armed with sawn-off shotguns and trophy shooters!
    What comparison, with which Turkey?
    Funny
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 15 October 2012 10: 11 New
      +5
      Quote: Jeen
      partisans armed with sawn-off shotguns and trophy shooters!

      The facts say otherwise! These partisans are better armed than the Syrian army! Do not forget who sponsors and equips them ......
    2. DIMS
      DIMS 15 October 2012 10: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: Jeen
      But Turkey is NATO

      There is a tiny nuance: alliance countries are obliged to intervene only in case of attack on one of the members of the alliance. And it’s not necessary to interfere with military methods. In other cases, it remains only to call for solidarity.

      Quote: Jeen
      excellently trained by Soviet advisers

      "Partisans" are also excellently trained and supplied. Moreover, they are not at all fighting with trimmings. And in the conditions of urban battles, there is no big difference between them and the army sharpened for confrontation with Israel.
  • kov
    kov 15 October 2012 09: 57 New
    +4
    And when compiling, such factors as the fact that the war in Syria is already in a planned move, and naturally there are losses among manpower and equipment, have not been taken into account. According to numerous reports, Syrian rebels are constantly capturing and destroying all new Army equipment.

    as an example
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKv623f_NH8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DryW1aq-Juo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFq1JMe5-J0
  • nycsson
    nycsson 15 October 2012 10: 27 New
    0
    EU Foreign Ministers to adopt 18th sanctions package against Syria
    europa.eu

    BRUSSELS, October 15th. Foreign Ministers of 27 EU countries in Luxembourg intend to approve the next, 18th package of sanctions against Syria.

    According to diplomatic sources, measures to further pressure the Syrian regime include a ban on flights and landing in the EU countries of Syrian airline aircraft and a formal ban on insurance of air and sea shipments of weapons to Damascus through third countries. In addition, another 28 Syrian officials will be added to the black list of individuals and legal entities that are prohibited from entering the EU countries and whose assets in Europe are frozen.

    Foreign Ministers of 27 EU countries adopted July 23 additional measures to ensure an arms embargo on Syria. The European Union introduced an inspection of ships and aircraft suspected of delivering weapons or other equipment to Syria. Such an inspection must be carried out by each EU country in the event of a reasonable suspicion that a vessel passing through its territorial waters is delivering prohibited cargo to Syria. A similar requirement applies to cargo aircraft arriving at or departing from airports in EU countries.
    Read more: http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2012/10/15/1046068.html
    1. Sandov
      Sandov 15 October 2012 20: 53 New
      +1
      nycsson,
      These universal people would be better to look after bandits, and not for the people of Syria.
  • Splin
    Splin 15 October 2012 10: 55 New
    +1
    If NATO had not abandoned official maz for Ankara, there would have been nothing. The Turks have a large land border + Kurds will also be next to push. And it is not known how the rebels will behave. They are headed not by slum children, but by smart uncles who have also been educated in the USSR. They also love their homeland.
  • tekinoral
    tekinoral 15 October 2012 10: 58 New
    -9
    At the flag-raising ceremony of the Turkic Council (countries included in Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Turkey), the Head of the Kazakh state made a fateful speech that can be compared with other speeches of great politicians who influenced the fate of states and nations.

    “As Ataturk said:“ The time will come when all the Turks will unite. ” Therefore, I want to greet all the Turkic-speaking brothers. Between Altai and the Mediterranean Sea, more than 200 million brothers live. If we all unite, then we will be a very effective force in the world, ”Nursultan Abishevich said at the Turkish-Kazakh business forum.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 11: 01 New
      +9
      Quote: tekinoral
      If we all come together, we will be a very effective force in the world, ”-

      Dream, dream is not harmful laughing
      1. tekinoral
        tekinoral 15 October 2012 11: 07 New
        -6
        Dream, dream is not harmful: it seems like I'm not the only one who dreams laughing
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 15 October 2012 21: 38 New
          +4
          Dear friends ! I know the point of view of the hands of my country, therefore I cannot but comment on your statements regarding the union of Turkic-speaking peoples. Oddly enough for you, but behind the statements of Nazarbayev in Turkey on October 11, 12. It’s worth it ... Russia. At least everything is consistent with her. And that's why .
          1. The foreign policy of the Republic of Kazakhstan has never departed from the position of Russia. No wonder Nazarbayev before traveling to Turkey visited Russia on October 8, 9. .
          2. We are not talking about any territorial formation of the Turkic peoples - Azerbaijanis, Altai peoples, Tatars, Bashkirs, Kalmyks, Turkmens, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, Turks, Kazakhs, etc. . Most of the Turkic-speaking peoples were part of the Russian Empire, and then in the USSR. Enough to look at the map of the world and it will become clear that there is practically no common border with Turkey.
          Any person, if they have everything in order, will never come to mind that there is an opportunity to tear, for example, Tatarstan from Russia.
          3. Now imagine that if we Russia and Kazakhstan succeed in drawing Turkey into our sphere (zone) of influence. If we together (namely, only our 3 countries have territory both in Europe and in Asia) will play in the political arena of the world. Is it not profitable for Russia? After all, we were able to organize the SCO together with China, by the way, we need to pull the Turks and Azerbaijanis there - to pull them away from NATO and the EU.
          It is known that in the West the Union of Slavs and Turks - the Russian Empire, the USSR, always caused an itch (people of other nationalities will be told no offense). Together we survived in the most difficult times - Napoleon, the 1st and 2nd world. war, civil war and famine. Now imagine if Turkey will be with us. It is known that it will never, for obvious reasons, enter the EU. It is also known that Turkey is surrounded by Arab countries and Persians. And they are not going to create an alliance with them, based on the latest events in the region (no fools sit in Turkey - they understand that only in integration with other countries will they live better (sales markets, sphere of influence, weight in the political arena of the world), otherwise they will only be puppets and recent events show this).
          Therefore, we have a chance. And if we can attract Turkey, then in the West it’s not itchy, but scabies will appear. Hence the statements of Nazarbayev. (By the way, he has repeatedly declared the Union of Central Asian countries, but Uzbekistan has always been the enemy. And if you look, the Customs Union would be wider.)
          4 Russia itself is interested in Turkey and has taken the first steps in this direction - a powerful gas pipeline along the bottom of the Black Sea; Turkish resorts have already become an "all-Union health resort". Many Turks work in our countries, especially in construction. Textiles.
          First trade, and then we'll see. Nazarbayev’s statements are purely economic in nature. "First the economy, then the politics."
          And further . There will be no war between Syria and Turkey.
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 15 October 2012 11: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Dream, dream is not harmful

        Sanya, what's wrong !! ??
        Let them unite, the enemies of America will be stronger, since most of the population of these countries do not like Amers)))
        And then yourself and disconnect, intrigue begins, who is older, who is more))))))))
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 14: 10 New
          +6
          Alibek, the map he saw laid out, there is still part of Russia.
          1. tekinoral
            tekinoral 15 October 2012 14: 19 New
            -5
            Alexander Romanov (1) Today, 14:10 ↑ new 0
            Alibek, the map he saw laid out, there is still part of Russia.

            they show where the Turkic-speaking peoples live and all
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 15 October 2012 14: 42 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Alibek, the map he saw laid out, there is still part of Russia.

            Now I looked !!
            Whatever the child is not amusing))))))))))
            This is not serious!!
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 15 October 2012 15: 00 New
              +4
              Quote: Yarbay
              Whatever the child is not amusing))

              Alibek, I don’t post cards where Turkey is part of Russia, let the child itch on Turkish sites
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 15 October 2012 15: 21 New
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                I don’t post cards, let the child itch on Turkish site,

                I completely agree with you and support !!
                I would erase the card as a moderator in your place!
      3. mongoose
        mongoose 15 October 2012 11: 33 New
        +4
        interesting, for example, the Yakuts! will be happy to live according to the laws of Sharia! laughing
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 15 October 2012 11: 41 New
          -4
          Quote: mongoose
          will be happy to live according to the laws of Sharia!

          And what Turkic country lives according to Sharia law ???
          And you need to first study the issue, and then write !!
          According to Sharia law, the lives of those who belong to other religions are also regulated, that is, they have less responsibility and are judged only for insults and serious crimes, but they are allowed to drink, there is something that a Muslim cannot do and much more!
          1. mongoose
            mongoose 15 October 2012 12: 01 New
            +2
            gee-gee-gee, that just do not come up, Muslims, that would tear other people laughing
    2. I-16M
      I-16M 15 October 2012 11: 51 New
      +4
      The map is not accurate. From the series Dream Turk
    3. Beck
      Beck 15 October 2012 11: 52 New
      +8
      Quote: tekinoral
      If we all come together, we will be a very effective force in the world, ”Nursultan Abishevich said at the Turkish-Kazakh business forum.


      What the next BAD. That is the worldwide caliphate. Now PAN-TURKISM.

      If Nazarbayev spoke such words, it was purely out of temporal considerations. He is also that politician. And most likely he did not mean political or economic unification, but cultural interaction on the basis of former historical processes. And in the past, Pan-Turkism never existed. All neighboring Turkic states fought each other as best they could, and at every opportunity, like the Slavic peoples in the Slavic milieu.

      And what kind of capital of pan-Turkism will Nazarbayev give his power to? He will not give it to anyone.

      The strategic partner of Kazakhstan is not Gagauzia, nor Kyrgyzstan, nor Turkmenistan. The strategic partner of Kazakhstan is RUSSIA.
      1. tekinoral
        tekinoral 15 October 2012 12: 01 New
        0
        no one wrote that they would remove the borders, economic unification is important
        1. Beck
          Beck 15 October 2012 12: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: tekinoral
          economic unification is important


          It is necessary to cooperate economically with everyone.
          1. tekinoral
            tekinoral 15 October 2012 12: 17 New
            -3
            Beck
            do you think Kazakhstan does not want to bypass Russia to supply gas and oil to Europe? and such a road only through Turkey
            1. Beck
              Beck 15 October 2012 12: 30 New
              +2
              Quote: tekinoral
              Do you think Beckwa Kazakhstan does not want to bypass Russia to supply gas and oil to Europe? And such a road only through Turkey


              Wants. From all sides it is beneficial to have two distribution channels. But what does pan-Turkism have to do with it. Here is a mutually beneficial cooperation.
            2. thatupac
              thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 31 New
              +1
              And what's the difference to whom to pay for transit? Or will Turkey provide it for free? I doubt it very much.
      2. Yeraz
        Yeraz 15 October 2012 12: 15 New
        +6
        why do you perceive the unification of the Turks as something negative instead of striving for this ????
        And firstly, when people talk about unification, it’s not about creating one state, but first of all about cultural and economic unification. There are plenty of opportunities.
        We ourselves must become a center of power. The most loving Kazakhstan is to Russia from the Turkic countries, but this is an appearance, the Kazakhs know it is beneficial for them. But this does not prevent them from slowly creating the background of the great friends of the Russians and Kazakhs to integrate politically and economically with Turkey and Azerbaijan.
        1. Beck
          Beck 15 October 2012 12: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Yeraz
          why do you perceive the unification of the Turks as something negative instead of striving for this ????


          The unification in the cultural, ethnographic aspects of who is opposed to this. But to isolate oneself on the basis of the national global changes in the world is unreasonable.

          The modern development of the globalization of the economy, multinational companies, political openness implies the comprehensive development of mutually beneficial cooperation in all aspects of life, with all countries of the world. Separation is a passed stage of development of civilization. In addition, such isolation causes a negative reaction of the neighboring countries. And in the world, and so enough negative.

          Kazakhstan is now more integrated with Russia and at the same time, developing a mutually beneficial cooperation with Azerbaijan and Turkey is a blessing. If it would be beneficial for Turkey to develop relations with Bangladesh, then it should equal them, regardless of whether this country enters or does not enter the orbit of pan-Turkism.
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz 15 October 2012 13: 53 New
            +2
            Quote: Beck
            But to isolate oneself on the basis of the national global changes in the world is unwise.

            why does our unification automatically mean isolation from the rest of the world ?? The EU has united, but has not ceased to cooperate with the whole world.
            Various centers of power are being created in the world, and we have everything in order to become a separate powerful force, so that they adjoin us, and not we are looking for someone. We all have resources, demography, and scientific potential. Unlike the Arab world, we have there is a combination of Islamic and secular
            beginning (in some places and more secular Kazakhstan for example)
            In the future, we should act from a single position in foreign policy and stop your graters in Central Asia, it’s really insulting when the Turks of Central Asia arrange to caves with each other because of trifles. Our disunity is beneficial to many, but disadvantageous to our peoples.
          2. romb
            romb 15 October 2012 15: 19 New
            +1
            Dear Beck! It’s just that the Turkic union cannot be called any isolation on the basis of national, racial and religious affiliation. Because among the Turkic peoples there are representatives of the Caucasian and Mongoloid races, we are also adherents of various religions and faiths. The most important thing is that even under such circumstances, we all the same somewhere somewhere we continue to consider ourselves actually one nation - the Türks. Here at least it turns out - an inter-confessional international, built on ethnocultural kinship and historical community.
            1. Beck
              Beck 15 October 2012 16: 05 New
              +3
              Tekinoralu. Rhombus.

              For the cultural, ethnographic community I am for. But there are no such reasons and opportunities to create a new center of power in modern times. We have raw materials, territorial, human resources, but there is no infrastructure that could use the available to its full potential. There is no advanced science, without it there is no R&D, without it there is no technology, and without all this, a new center of power will not be created.

              In addition, we have long ago, ethnographically, moved away from the common root - once united Turks. On this basis, as Rhombus correctly says, many nations have formed, which now have one thing in common, this language. Anthropologically, confessionally, mentally, according to traditions, according to the diversity of cultures, according to customs, we are completely different peoples. Here in Central Asia we somehow or other, but we have disagreements. But how can a Turkic-Yakut shamanist find a common language of the soul with an Orthodox Turk-Gagauz by his faith, having overcome the space from Lena to the Dniester?

              No need to build a new tower of Babel called Panturkism. We all know the consequences of such a first tower in Mesopatamia.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 15 October 2012 16: 12 New
                +4
                Quote: Beck
                For the cultural, ethnographic community I am for. But there are no such reasons and opportunities to create a new center of power in modern times. We have raw materials, territorial, human resources, but there is no infrastructure that could use the available in full force.

                I agree with you!
              2. tekinoral
                tekinoral 15 October 2012 16: 16 New
                -2
                no one says that we need to unite in one state, this is not necessary, the question is economic, the Arabs want to unite economically, Russia also wants to unite economically with the Slavs, Europe is united, what is worse for us, is it not bad that Kazakhstan builds a plant in Turkey or for turnaround, people will work there, Turkey has invested quite a lot of money in Tatarstan, it only wins from this, tax, employment for citizens, etc.
              3. Yeraz
                Yeraz 16 October 2012 12: 10 New
                +4
                Quote: Beck
                but there is no infrastructure that could use the available to its full potential.

                Why isn’t it? Well, in Central Asia it is there. As for Azerbaijan and Turkey, the Caspian has a large flotilla in Azerbaijan and they calmly transport goods from the other side. Energetically, we are also connected. Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan export their oil through Baku_Tbilisi_Jeyhan. Construction will be completed soon. D Baku-Tbilisi-Kars, which will bind us even more. And perhaps the construction of a trans-Caspian gas pipeline is ahead.
                Quote: Beck
                There is no advanced science, without it there is no R&D, without it there is no technology, and without all this, a new center of power will not be created.

                No, but we are not retarded either. Turkey was in the camp of one super-friend, and we are in another. And we both have a lot of prominent scientists. Moreover, we are developing more and more technologically. Especially Turkey, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. The military-industrial complex is developing rapidly slowly mastering various technologies. Kazakhstan together with Russia, we with Israel, and the Turks with the West. They already produce helicopters, soon there will be Tank Altai and much more.
                Quote: Beck
                In addition, we have long ago, ethnographically, moved away from the common root - once united Turks. On this basis, as Rhombus correctly says, many nations have formed, which now have one thing in common, this language. Anthropologically, confessionally, mentally, according to traditions, according to the diversity of cultures, according to customs, we are completely different peoples. Here in Central Asia we somehow or other, but we have disagreements. But how can a Turkic-Yakut shamanist find a common language of the soul with an Orthodox Turk-Gagauz by his faith, having overcome the space from Lena to the Dniester?

                All the same, we are close enough and not as direct as different as you are trying to describe. Due to the fact that we lived in the USSR and now we live in Russia together. We are very familiar. You do not need to enter the Yakuts here yes they are Türks and they are very different, but here we are talking about the main part of the Türks, and the Yakuts are a minority. There are all prerequisites in order to develop a unified Türkic language. The Chinese, for example, have dialects and people living in the same country do not understand each other now learn a single language.
                And besides, it won’t be difficult for us at all. Turk, Azerbaijanian, Gagauz and Turkmens understand each other well. We understand 60-70 percent. Kyrgyz people and Kazakhs are a little less. Therefore, working out a new language will not be so for us It’s difficult. Kumyks who are closer geographically to us better understand you Kazakhs and Kyrgyz.
                So all the problems are solved.
      3. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 15 October 2012 18: 25 New
        -1
        Beck,
        The national-chauvinistic bourgeois ideology, according to which all peoples speaking Turkic languages, and above all Muslim Turks, are supposedly one nation and should unite under the leadership Turkey into a single state. laughing
        1. Beck
          Beck 15 October 2012 20: 39 New
          +1
          Nick.

          You have correctly described everything. Only in the end they forgot to put an end to it. For or Against. In tone, you are against pan-Turkism.
          1. nickname 1 and 2
            nickname 1 and 2 16 October 2012 08: 57 New
            0
            Beck,

            I, only that: led by Turkey!
            If Kazakhstan is happy with this?
            Quote: nick 1 and 2
            National chauvinistic bourgeois ideology

            I disbelieve such ideologies!
            Often this is treated like a little thing ...
      4. Bekzat
        Bekzat 16 October 2012 08: 31 New
        0
        Greetings to all. Dear Beck, I agree with you on this. Our president had in mind only a cultural association. Well, it is possible in economic terms, but not as in the military-political. + To you.
    4. thatupac
      thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 30 New
      0
      Turkic laughter. At a time when Turkey is on the back of America, the local Turks dream of a new Ottoman Empire laughing .
    5. Sandov
      Sandov 15 October 2012 20: 57 New
      -1
      This will not work for you. This is bullshit. What a fright the population of our country will go to your side. And here religion and nationality. It is you who so want to divide, xp you so that crackers do not crumple.
    6. them
      them 16 October 2012 16: 00 New
      0
      Ataturk said that to fight if the country is not in danger of suicide. Who is threatening Turkey today?
  • Arsen
    Arsen 15 October 2012 11: 05 New
    +1
    Here Turkey is understandable to a fool even in this situation, it will not be alone in fighting, NATO will fit in, with such a balance of forces, the situation in Syria is deplorable. Yes, and internal strife.
    1. Splin
      Splin 15 October 2012 11: 11 New
      +2
      There are many examples that a civil war ends when an aggressor arrives.
      1. mongoose
        mongoose 15 October 2012 11: 45 New
        0
        no, in this case, like ours during the Jewish coup, "rebels" were bought
        1. Splin
          Splin 15 October 2012 14: 57 New
          0
          That year, NATO was made officially understood in Libya. Helping with bombing and weapons is good, but we’ll only start the land operation together in the face.
  • Rumata
    Rumata 15 October 2012 11: 27 New
    -2
    Maybe someone in the know and clarify how all this works in terms of NATO. As far as I know in the event of an attack on a NATO member country, the rest should help her. Can a country member of NATO, without the approval of the others, attack someone?
    If Turkey attacks without the permission of NATO, then it may well not be able to demand any help from them. On the other hand, if NATO gives the go-ahead, then Syria has no chance, with practical unlimited ones, compared with Syria. NATO resources, they will bomb everything before sending troops
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 15 October 2012 11: 35 New
    +4
    Quote: Rumata
    Maybe someone in the know and clarify how all this works in terms of NATO. As far as I know in case of an attack on a NATO member country, the rest should help her

    The key article of the Treaty is its 5th article. Here it is without distortion or abbreviations:

    The contracting parties agree that an armed attack on one or more of them in Europe or North America will be considered as an attack on them as a whole and, therefore, agree that if such an armed attack takes place, each of them , in the exercise of the right to individual or collective self-defense, recognized by Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, will assist the Contracting Party subjected to or to Contracting Parties by Xia such an attack by the immediate implementation of such individual or joint action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
    1. Rumata
      Rumata 15 October 2012 11: 50 New
      -1
      Quote: Yarbay
      an approved armed attack will take place

      That is, if Turkey perceives the recent events on the border as an attack, can NATO intervene?

      Just in case of assistance from NATO, all comparisons of the number of armies are not so important, Syria has no chance. NATO will not allow Turkey to lose, that is, it will help financially, it will open warehouses, and in case of complications it will simply roll Syria to the ice rink.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 15 October 2012 12: 29 New
        +3
        Quote: Rumata
        That is, if Turkey perceives the recent events on the border as an attack, can NATO intervene?

        In my opinion definitely !!
        Quote: Rumata
        Syria has no chance

        Even if Turkey attacks alone, then Syria has no chance!
        Quote: Rumata
        NATO will not allow Turkey to lose, that is, it will help financially, it will open warehouses, and in case of complications it will simply roll Syria
        Turkey’s neighbors are well aware of its military capabilities !!
        I remember about 10 years ago Iranian aircraft began to brazenly violate our airspace and threaten about oil platforms!
        A squadron of aircraft arrived in Baku and performed a demonstration show over the central square!
        So after this, not one aircraft until today from Iran did not dare to violate our border!
        1. thatupac
          thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 34 New
          0
          Well, then not to bombard Turkey with Iran because of Turkish planes in Azerbaijan, thus invoking a war with NATO? Here, Turkey is not so much scared as the United States with its vassals.
  • andrey777
    andrey777 15 October 2012 11: 42 New
    +2
    If Turkey, together with NATO, enters the war against Syria, then Iran will have to intervene in the conflict, respectively, the forces of Russia and China (in the supply of weapons and specialists) will be included at least informally, and here you are the beginning of the Third World War. in a hurry to take hasty steps.
  • Rumata
    Rumata 15 October 2012 11: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: andrey777
    If Turkey, together with NATO, enters the war against Syria, then Iran will have to intervene in the conflict, respectively, the forces of Russia and China (in the supply of weapons and specialists) will be included at least informally, and here you are the beginning of the Third World War. in a hurry to take hasty steps.

    The Third World has been prophesied before every conflict lately. With Libya, too, they said that China and Russia would enter and Shindets would come.
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 35 New
      +1
      Well, Libya is so far away, and Syria is closer to Iran. When the war is at the very borders of Russia or in the Caucasus, then Russia will not be able to distance itself.
  • igordok
    igordok 15 October 2012 11: 49 New
    +1
    It seems to me that one of the reasons for Turkey’s aggressive mood is the persecution of the generals from the current ruling elite. It is necessary for the military to show off something, to show himself, to show that the military is a force.
  • Saracen
    Saracen 15 October 2012 13: 06 New
    +2
    All de-marches of Turkey (shootings, retreating troops, landing an airliner) are aimed at arranging the Syrian armed opposition, such as Turkey, they are their supporter and defender in order to push through the American plan to replace Assad with the candidate they need, as was done in Yemen.
    Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Saturday evening 07.10.2012/XNUMX/XNUMX said on television that the vice president of Syria, Farouk al-Shara, is “a prudent person who did not participate in the massacres in Syria. Nobody knows better this regime in the country than he. ” Continuing, he said: "The Syrian opposition is inclined to see al-Shara lead the transition."

    The difference between the events in Syria and Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Yemen is that the West was able to push its people under the "pseudo-Islamic parties" into the government, which is not possible in Syria.

    Those who consider Russia and America as rivals in Syria are mistaken. US hands Russia pursues its interests. Since Bashar al-Assad, like his father are proteges of the United States. But America cannot openly support Assad, and they are unpromising, their time is up. But while the United States is looking for a suitable substitute for the Assad, Russia is taking time (such as a veto, support for the people of Syria, etc.) But as soon as a candidate is found, Russia will immediately stop articulating as it was in Libya and other countries.
  • thatupac
    thatupac 15 October 2012 13: 07 New
    -1
    What a stupid comparison. In which case you need to understand that you need to add US military assistance to the Turkish Armed Forces. Pleased with the number of troops in the event of mobilization. At first you collect so much ...
  • Strashila
    Strashila 15 October 2012 13: 19 New
    +1
    The author earnestly kept silent about the NATO ratification on the side of Turkey.
  • wax
    wax 15 October 2012 13: 25 New
    +1
    It is unlikely that Turkey will directly fight with Syria. The subsequent image losses, which will be followed by economic losses, are unacceptable for Turkey, in my opinion. UN sanctions will not be. Syria can survive, but for this it will have to work very hard to defeat the constantly replenished contingent of sufficiently well-trained multinational, not experiencing financial difficulties, mercenary interventionists. I think Assad needs to remove the civilian population from the 10-kilometer zone on the Turkish border and not flightless, as the West wants, and “dead” so that not a single mercenary, not a single convoy passes through these 10 km.
    1. FATEMOGAN
      FATEMOGAN 15 October 2012 21: 32 New
      0
      good option +
  • FATEMOGAN
    FATEMOGAN 15 October 2012 13: 29 New
    0
    everyone is talking about morale from whom it is stronger, from the Syrians or Turks, but mine does not take into account that the Turks will be obvious aggressors, they will fight for Uncle Tom, and die for no reason, and the Syrians will protect their homeland, they will have nowhere to retreat, if the military has not betrayed the president so far and has not raised its paws, it means they will stand until the end. In this situation, the country will only rally more. Most likely the majority of Sunnis who did not go to the terrorists but Assad do not hold to the end will decide and go defend Syria. the Syrians to not fortunately, they don’t get used to the dead; they hold on, and as in the case of war, the Turks will be echoes of corpses to drive corpses .... then we will find out what kind of war they are.
  • Chemist
    Chemist 15 October 2012 14: 00 New
    +2
    Turks raged, another passenger plane forcibly landed in Ankara, this time on board the Armenian destination Moscow-Damascus.
    It’s just that all borders are crossed, fucked up in one word, they need to be controlled.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 15 October 2012 14: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: Chemist

      The Turks raged, another passenger plane was forced to land in Ankara, this time on board the Armenian destination Moscow-Damascus.

      You forgot that both states forbade planes to fly through their territory to each other!


      The Armenian plane received permission to fly over Turkey, subject to inspection at the airport of Erzurum in the east of the country, NTV TV channel reported.

      According to him, the Armenian plane requested permission to fly through official channels. "If there are no problems during the search, the aircraft will continue on course," NTV said.

      Currently, an aircraft search is being conducted, RIA Novosti reports.

      According to CNN-Turk, which cites sources in the Turkish Foreign Ministry, a transport plane flew from Yerevan to Syrian Aleppo and delivered humanitarian aid there. Turkish authorities were notified of the cargo on board, but the Turkish side decided to inspect it, the television company said.

      The landing of an Armenian aircraft at the airport of the Turkish city of Erzrum was planned, Director of Air Armenia cargo airline Arsen Avetisyan told Interfax.

      "According to a pre-agreed agreement, a cargo plane with humanitarian aid heading from Yerevan to Syrian Aleppo was supposed to land in Turkey to carry out a cargo check. Nothing extraordinary happened. Currently, Turkish security services are checking the cargo," Avetisyan said.

      The Armenian Foreign Ministry told Interfax that the plane’s landing was planned. "The landing was made in accordance with the agreement reached earlier," the Foreign Ministry said.

      1. Chemist
        Chemist 15 October 2012 14: 18 New
        +1
        It looks like the information is still raw, RBC, referring to Reuters, writes that the passenger plane is flying in Damascus, the RSN also says so, and there is nothing about the planned landing, CNN-Turk reports that the aircraft is flying and flew to Aleppo, RIA too.
        In general, it is still muddy, but the fact is on the face.
        I didn’t know about the ban.
        1. tekinoral
          tekinoral 15 October 2012 14: 43 New
          +1
          the Armenians themselves landed, no one forced them. that is, they themselves asked for a landing in Turkey
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 15 October 2012 14: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: Chemist
          I didn’t know about the ban

          Armenian plane allowed to fly through the territory of Turkey to Syria on the terms of inspection !!
          That is, he was not forcibly planted !!


          Official Damascus banned Turkish civilian aircraft from using Syrian airspace. This measure was taken against the backdrop of a new crisis in relations between the two states.

          The Syrian news agency SANA issued a statement in the evening of October 13, without further explanation.

          On October 14, it became known that the Turkish government also prohibited Syrian civilian aircraft from flying through Turkish airspace. Moreover, it was Ankara who initiated it, according to Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish authorities closed the skies for Syrian aviation because of the transportation of military equipment in a civilian plane, and reported this to Damascus last night. Consequently, the Syrian authorities did the same immediately.
      2. Beck
        Beck 15 October 2012 16: 36 New
        +2
        Yarba.

        I wanted to answer the Chemist. But you did better. With facts and links.
  • schapchits
    schapchits 15 October 2012 14: 38 New
    0
    And why frigates, corvettes and landing ships do not belong to sea vessels?

    Turks will not begin a full-scale invasion of Syria without US assistance. Yes, in terms of the number of people, Turkey is ahead, but Syria is for the most part armed with Soviet equipment, with which NATO did not stand next! But the landing in Turkey of an airplane flying from Moscow is an occasion to specifically spoil relations, including entering a flight search (the US will not help Turkey anyway, because at the same time the risk of destabilization in the world will become too great). Even the UN organization lying beneath the west condemned the delay in the plane.
  • silver_roman
    silver_roman 15 October 2012 14: 41 New
    0
    I agree with the author of the article that the armies of Turkey and Syria are comparable, although they differ in their qualitative composition. the problem is different: in the event of a Syrian war against Turkey, in addition to the Turkish main forces, rebels in Syria will be involved. they are quite successfully opposing the regular LAWFUL army of Syria. in the event of external aggression, these rebels can mobilize and tear the country from the inside more confidently and furiously. in this regard, the Syrian army will be extremely difficult to simultaneously confront the enemy, both external and internal, fueled by the same Turks and other "fighters for democracy and freedom of the peaceful Syrian people"
    1. Nord007hold
      Nord007hold 15 October 2012 19: 59 New
      0
      The point here is that the regular army is not imprisoned for opposing irregular partisan formations. The Syrians would need to quickly create the mobile units of the "wolfhounds" - they would have a chance to quickly localize and destroy the threat.
  • markevo
    markevo 15 October 2012 15: 43 New
    0
    Turkey strikes Syria
  • Dema239
    Dema239 15 October 2012 15: 50 New
    +3
    A Turkish soldier is probably not a bad soldier, I can’t judge, although I remember from history that Turkey was often a bit in wars .. but there is one “but” - a soldier defending his homeland and a soldier acting as an aggressor - different things, you understand the difference in motivation -or .. Would Turkish soldiers in Syrian territory want to shed blood and fertilize the Syrian land in the name of Uncle Sam’s interests as earnestly as they would protect Turkey itself from the invasion? Erdogan is dragging shit in the name of US interests, and the Turks are rattling their arms and are ready to shed their blood for the interests of others .. Maybe the army is not bad .. but there are clearly not enough brains for everyone .. IMHO
    1. Gorchakov
      Gorchakov 15 October 2012 16: 40 New
      0
      I absolutely agree with you ... Whatever forecasts are made here, but the Turks and NATO are aggressors and will fight for salaries ... And the Syrians will resist in order to survive ... And these are different situations ...
      1. Nord007hold
        Nord007hold 15 October 2012 20: 04 New
        0
        The issue is the intensity of propaganda (my personal opinion), because even the most unseemly goal can be “beautifully wrapped up” and presented to the masses as a revelation. So the Turks, in principle, can have a well-motivated army and the public.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 15 October 2012 16: 04 New
    +2
    Quote: Dema239
    . but there is one “but” - a soldier defending his homeland and a soldier acting as an aggressor - different things, you understand the difference in motivation

    I assure you he will not consider himself an aggressor!
    In the first decades, Kurdish militants were controlled from Syria, I gave a link to brother.ru there, you can read there that Ocalan lived for many years in Damascus and from there led the militants!
    Quote: Dema239
    Do Turkish soldiers in Syrian territory want to shed blood and land

    They want it, the agitation on this issue is high !!
    Quote: Dema239
    Fertilizing Syria in the name of Uncle Sam’s interests is as true as defending Turkey itself from invasion?

    There is no question of Uncle Sam’s interests, they say that ** they are killing civilians and that ordinary people need to be saved **!
    1. Dema239
      Dema239 15 October 2012 16: 25 New
      +1
      So that’s why I think that they were deprived of their brains when giving out brains - they just stupidly believe what they are told and what they are agitated for, and they include their own brain vestiges laughing
      1. tekinoral
        tekinoral 15 October 2012 16: 34 New
        +1
        in Syria, about 10% of the population of the Turks, I am interested in what Russia undertook
        Such a thing happened in the CIS where Russians are being killed? Would troops lead or not? would definitely lead
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 15 October 2012 16: 38 New
          +1
          in Syria, about 10% of the population of the Turks, I’m interested in Russia to take such a thing in the CIS where Russians are killed.

          There are many of our citizens in Syria, I wonder what our "leaders" are going to do about this? Because as you know Bullet - a fool, for shells and bombs - generally silent.
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 15 October 2012 16: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: Dema239
        just stupidly believe what they are told and why they are agitated, and it includes its own brain rudiments

        I don’t agree here, you see, there is no propaganda of the type of Thundering printed there!
        They always looked at the leadership of Syria as a dictatorial !!
        Refugees tell horrors about Assad’s live regime!
        Even opposition newspapers write horrors about the regime!
        There is no other information !!
        Therefore, their own rudiments give the same thing!
      3. Nord007hold
        Nord007hold 15 October 2012 20: 07 New
        -2
        mmm ... Whose cow would mumble) no offense of course ... it’s just that in the history of the Union and the CIS there are many facts when people stupidly believed what they were saying to him.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 16 October 2012 01: 57 New
          0
          Nord007hold,
          Now is not the time ...
          If some people think that the main opposition is a swamp, then they are deeply mistaken, it is enough to collect and lay out a list of all the sexual slaves with the Russian Federation, with the connivance of the government, there will be a revolt worse than October 1917. About 15 - 000 people a year, of which a third are in Turkey ...
          If HOLLYWOOD released such a picture as Hostage 1 and 2 (Taken 1 and 2), then what can we say, Albanian terrorists in Turkey are trying to destroy the former prince (part 2), because he did not let them (Albanians) sell their daughter to Qatar in France (part 1) ....
  • Zakon
    Zakon 15 October 2012 16: 09 New
    +2
    The Turkish army as a boxer with healthy muscles and with a plan to fight, but as you know, the plan quickly disappears with the first missed strike, I wish the Syrian people and the army as we sing in the song - "Let the noble rage boil like a wave ..."
  • Saracen
    Saracen 15 October 2012 16: 36 New
    +1
    The Syrian people and the Syrian government (Alawite) are not the same thing, not the monolith that many here imagine.
    For several decades, the Syrian people have been under the tyranny of the Alawite NATIONAL MINORITY (10%), and therefore the people’s liberation war is just against the Asad clan. For the Syrians (Sunnis - about 70-80%), the Turks are much closer - than the Alawites. But someone deliberately misleads the Russians, encouraging pseudo-patriotism, turning a lot on its head.
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 15 October 2012 19: 46 New
      0
      In fact, there were enough bloggers who, in LiveJournal, unsubscribe from Syria itself and Damascus in particular. They really need to know what they like best.
      1. Saracen
        Saracen 15 October 2012 20: 02 New
        0
        In nete you can write what you want, and LJ, and attribute the orientation, this time. And no one has yet canceled the information war and propaganda, these are two.
        Private videos, videos, etc. from Syria about what is happening in the Arabic language, and what goes out in the media or is translated into Russian and English, under the influence of the information confrontation. these are three.
        And fourthly, few Russians know the difference between Shiites and Sunnis, and even more so the Alawites. And without knowing this, it is not possible to understand the essence of what is happening.
  • yacht
    yacht 15 October 2012 17: 55 New
    0
    Weak and not reliable article, just a glimpse: Syria does not have C300 complexes. And the “Cube” is, in general, a medium-range air defense system, and not a small one, as indicated in the article, and they went for export as “squares”. The author is not aware that Syria has recently adopted the Bastion, an onshore missile system with the Yakhont (Onyx.) Anti-ship missile,
    And so forth ...
  • Setrac
    Setrac 15 October 2012 18: 33 New
    0
    I wonder what such facilities in Turkey can get Syrian aviation?
  • SIBIR38RUS
    SIBIR38RUS 15 October 2012 18: 49 New
    -1
    Good day to all. Forgive me in advance for what I said below ... Judging by the presentation of thoughts and the psychological state, 30-40 percent of forum visitors are unambiguously children ... and students arguing on adult topics, eating. information from Yandex, etc. I can download pictures with tables and graphs, but is that just the point? Talk about powerful weapons by typing in the search first what you want to show off in your seemingly "personal knowledge" AND .... ESPECIALLY combat experience of hot spots and tested weapons "re-read from the memories of motorized riflemen and paratroopers by 1st Chechen students as sophomore law students and programmers pretending to be active or retired military men on this site ... Dear youths ... shine a lot, write fewer fairy tales ... I would like to understand if real officers remained here as patriots, sergeants and soldiers. Fasting simply folly to read becomes opposite.

    I completely forgot ... Regarding this topic I will post a personal opinion that is not stolen from the Internet ... If in the interests of Russia to help Syria we will help, if not, it does not mean that we are crap again! The fact is that this is a little not the same region of influence of interests and not that bait to catch large fish (USA) for the gills ... There is a strategy designed to exhaust the enemy - as well as prolonged sparing ... moreover, the exhaust is not only physically but also economically. .. this is in our favor ... if you want to save the queen - sacrifice a pawn. And .... Strike not slowly while the enemy is euphoric from micropoba!

    I completely forgot ... Regarding this topic, I’ll post a personal opinion that is not stolen from the Internet ... If in the interests of Russia to help Syria we will help, if not, this does not mean that we screwed up again! The fact is that this is a little not the same region of influence of interests and not that bait to catch large fish (USA) for the gills ... There is a strategy designed to exhaust the enemy - as well as prolonged sparing ... moreover, the exhaust is not only physically but also economically. .. this is in our favor ... if you want to save the queen - sacrifice a pawn. And .... Strike not slowly while the enemy is euphoric from micropoba!
    1. Beck
      Beck 15 October 2012 21: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: SIBIR38RUS
      Judging by the presentation of thoughts and the psychological state, 30 - 40 percent of forum visitors are unambiguously children ... and students arguing on adult topics, eating. information from Yandex, etc.


      Respected. This is not an elite club of arrogant, arrogant snobs.

      Here the people gathered. With different knowledge, different mentality, different education, different views, different ages. I gathered to talk, exchange opinions, go heart to heart, maybe when I had a fight. But, what’s good here is that even in the very rage physically in the face, well, there’s no way to put pressure.

      If our discussions are not for you, then planes fly to London. There are aristocratic clubs, in their interests - a breakthrough. A dime a dozen - do not ruin.
      1. bask
        bask 15 October 2012 21: 55 New
        -1
        Beck question, and what kind of juse are you from? Judging by the comments from the higher. The idea of ​​national socialism with a Turkish bias is highly developed.
        1. Beck
          Beck 16 October 2012 00: 32 New
          +1
          Quote: bask
          Beck question, and what kind of juse are you from? Judging by the comments from the highest. The idea of ​​national socialism with a Turkish bias is highly developed.


          About zhuzes somehow later. You generally read my comments posted above or just ran your eyes. Most likely they didn’t read if they presented me with a similar statement. So first read, penetrate, and then present something justified.

          To have an interest in reading, I inform you. In those comments, I called pan-Turkism CRAZY. He wrote that the strategic partner of Kazakhstan is not even the countries of Central Asia, but RUSSIA. And he justified all this as he could. Maybe after reading, you somehow retouch your statement about my National Socialism with a Turkish bias.
          1. Bekzat
            Bekzat 16 October 2012 00: 42 New
            0
            for Beck, you are right, Dear. for Kazakhstan and for Russia, we are extremely necessary for each other's allies, both economically and militarily. Historically and geopolitically this happened.
  • tm70-71
    tm70-71 15 October 2012 20: 24 New
    +2
    I meet the Turks at our place in Bishkek, inflated like balls with my greatness, I meet on business, they want to constantly buy everything for three cents and immediately sell for three rubles. Our local people do not like them, try not to deal with them.
    1. Saracen
      Saracen 15 October 2012 21: 42 New
      0
      They are also traders in Africa - traders.
      Especially brought up on nationalism, and national excellence. Such an ideology was in Turkey in the 20th century.
    2. Bekzat
      Bekzat 16 October 2012 00: 47 New
      0
      For Valery, a similar situation is in the horde. Turks always come so important pouting, they say we all "keep the market." And our locals do not like them.
  • Beck
    Beck 15 October 2012 21: 18 New
    +5
    CONGRATULATE EVERYONE.

    Or a topic like that. Or are we all wiser. But the scream and abuse on this page is much less.

    One way or another, but DEVELOPING.
  • UrraletZ1982
    UrraletZ1982 15 October 2012 21: 20 New
    +2
    As the USSR collapsed, the cat from home - a mouse dance!
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 15 October 2012 21: 33 New
    +1
    I’ll put in my three pennies. As for Turkey, I can’t add anything except what I’ve read, but we were thoroughly prepared against Syria. They had us so that now sitting on the couch and after 20 years have passed, I myself have no doubt that he served this way and it seemed not hard.
    The strengths of the Syrians who were given to us: excellent sniper school, air defense, anti-tank special forces, deep airborne reconnaissance and artillery. Weaknesses: aviation, navy. Infantry and tank personnel units were rated fairly well, although they noted that they were acting stereotyped and without initiative.
    Of course, years have passed, but either we were raised the motivation to break up ... at the exercises, or the Syrian army, including the elite units, changed for the worse. Watching videos laid out by quite loyalists is perplexing. Despite the fact that even the Civil War in Yugoslavia and the First Chechen War began to be traced, say the tendency to shift hostilities into development, the Syrians were not ready for this. Parts of the special forces that shine on rollers act as reservists at the training camp after a three-year break. The use of anti-tank systems, which are more effective than artillery in the city, is not visible at all.
    Just do not throw tomatoes. I tried in this case to get away from politics. Just a look at a sergeant of engineering troops. No more.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 October 2012 22: 07 New
      +2
      I will support. We no longer mentioned artillery. They noted the level of commando battalions - equivalent in training to Israeli infantry battalions
    2. bask
      bask 15 October 2012 22: 15 New
      0
      Aronchik. hi ... Today, according to the comments, there is complete unanimity. Evrev with the Turks and Turkic-speaking. And also NATO and the USA. Now for sure, the end, Syria. And I could not understand that Israel is friends with Islamic Turkey. It's simple, mutual, love, for amers ..
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 15 October 2012 22: 48 New
        +2
        bask
        It’s not my fault that Israel does not have a common border with Turkey and at first I was not prepared to repel the attack of the Turkish army as an conscript, and then as a reservist. After all, in this case I expressed only what I knew and what I see today, by the way without pretending to be right. The sergeant level does not reach the big strategy, but personally I am surprised by the work of the Syrians in the building. Especially taking into account the vast experience of recent times, URA could also invite instructors.
        1. bask
          bask 15 October 2012 23: 07 New
          +1
          Naturally Aron. You were preparing to fight in the tzahal. And in the 2 years I served as a sergeant, I shot 3 times from the AK. In Syria, the truly combat-ready units were manned, by Christians and Alawitans. If you lose, they and their families are waiting. Turkish, fun ,, dropping off the head with a blunt knife. They ,, suicide bombers ... So they are fighting ..
  • alex-defensor
    alex-defensor 15 October 2012 22: 05 New
    +1
    It is unfortunate that Turkey acts in this way. Indeed, official Syria shelling Turkish territory is not profitable from all sides. This means that Turkey itself is implicated in these attacks, and the fact that retaliatory fire is conducted purposefully on the positions of the Syrian military suggests that even before the start of hostilities, Turkey wants to weaken the future enemy.

    The method is as old as the world. It is also clear that in the event of a war, both Russia and China will provide Syria with some form of support. So in the face of a conflict of interest with Turkey, and this is quite ....

    What do you say, Yarbay (Alibek)
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 15 October 2012 22: 16 New
      0
      Quote: alex-defensor
      What do you say, Yarbay (Alibek)

      And what should I say dear ??
      1. SAMEDOV SULEYMAN
        SAMEDOV SULEYMAN 18 October 2012 11: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: Yarbay
        Yarbay (7)

        Hello Alibek! So for reference, at one time he served in Moldova- South-West direction. So HERE all South-West direction opposed only against one country - a member of NATO Turkey. I mean that in the USSR they knew perfectly well with whom, how and with what to fight. As our chief of staff said, Turkey puts all reservists under arms for 24 hours and they are excellent!
    2. Saracen
      Saracen 15 October 2012 22: 32 New
      0
      Quote: alex-defensor
      It is also clear that in the event of a war, both Russia and China will provide Syria with some form of support.



      And how much did they help Iraq, Serbia, Libya, etc. ? Although there were so many statements.
      They will hand over (sell) as they did before.
  • Saracen
    Saracen 15 October 2012 22: 30 New
    0
    Quote: alex-defensor
    It is also clear that in the event of a war, both Russia and China will provide Syria with some form of support.


    And how much did they help Iraq, Serbia, Libya, etc. ? Although there were so many statements.
    They will hand over (sell) as they did before.
  • Oleg Rosskiyy
    Oleg Rosskiyy 15 October 2012 23: 07 New
    0
    The Turkish government is nothing without the support of its NATO patrons, but at the expense of the correlation between it and the Syrian army, then Russian Rear Admiral Fedor Fedorovich Ushakov and military commander Alexander Suvorov proved by personal experience that quantity does not always play a decisive role in the battle.
    1. Saracen
      Saracen 15 October 2012 23: 48 New
      0
      If you argue like you, then the Khan of Batuy “stamped” Russia, then Russia can be trampled upon the present Mongolia.
      Yeah, the grandmother recalled that she was a girl.
      Each state had periods of prosperity, and then withering came. And neither Russia nor the United States is an exception.
      1. Oleg Rosskiyy
        Oleg Rosskiyy 16 October 2012 21: 39 New
        0
        Saracen
        You should be worried about Ukraine at the very time, so far everyone has been treading on its poor, but we are Russians about Russia, somehow. By the way, about the Batu Khan, he trampled Kievan Rus. Does this mean something to you?
  • Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 15 October 2012 23: 11 New
    +1
    Alas, Turkey, like hundreds of years ago, regularly continues to supply cannon fodder in the interests of either England, France, now the United States. Well, you can’t be at the errands of the white master all the time! Of course, one does not have to talk about any, even regional, leadership. The Turks have dreams, but there is no understanding how to achieve them. And even if Turkey gores its closest neighbors and begins to grow with the lands of the former USSR, its current "allies" and mentors will do everything possible to weaken the Turks.
  • sense
    sense 16 October 2012 00: 53 New
    +2
    Dear friends!
    I speak here from our friends Alexei (spender), Omar (atatürk), (camilla) and (bachasta). My previous nickname is Apollo. Each time I ask, from the site administration, to unban my friends. Not for myself, but for friends. In the flood topic on the site, I repeatedly asked the site administration trying to figure out on what basis the above comrades were banned. The forum administration did not respond to The questions raised also banned me. The conclusion begs itself either the administration was afraid to answer, or there were no answers. The third is not given. Moreover, the forum administration is so intimidated that they instantly erase all my comments. I can make hundreds nudes of accounts, but I do not do this for that reason. that if I’m allowed to the forum, I’ll only speak under my previous account. This and the previous account are used by me only to bring the truth to you. the truth is never half-hearted or it is not there. And the “truth” on the forum consists in the following, freethinking is not encouraged here. Moreover, the administration can not be objected and criticized. God forbid, if any of you begin to be bold, they will not give you warnings, you will receive an ETERNAL BAN. Pay attention to the forum rules, they are blurred and vague , all this gives the forum administration, at its discretion, punish objectionable comrades. Which happened to me. I even proposed to submit members of the forum for discussion (to vote), our ban, the administration did not take this step either. I will explain why, but all because proposal for a ban, would not find support from members of the forum. Thank God that the forum has a lot of adequate. thinking and decent people. Once again, I want to emphasize that I’m not asking for myself, only for the indicated comrades. Until now I have lived without this forum and will live like this now. The only thing I regret is that I can’t communicate with you as before. This is my last appeal, addressed not to forum administration, and to YOU.
    Support together !!! Beat dear people !!!
    Thank you for reading my message to the end.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 16 October 2012 03: 23 New
      0
      The question is, why are they banned? If for a cartoon (using one ip for a bunch of logs), then rightly ...
  • Northerner
    Northerner 16 October 2012 10: 51 New
    0
    Quote: Rumata
    And what is the name - Biomechanics of the White Samoryad .. uuh already breathtaking =)

    Ah, here she is !!! MAGIC PENDAL TECHNOLOGY! Yes there, as I see, the guys are doing business !!
  • Huseyn
    Huseyn 16 October 2012 17: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: tekinoral
    where else in the army so send their children

    Quote: thatupac
    Window dressing.

    Not certainly in that way. In Turkey, the army is the only place, as in many poor countries, where the conscript goes to rejoice, and his relatives dances getting rid of one mouth - the army is the only place where they are fed plentifully, where they will wear clean new clothes, and not from someone else’s shoulder as at home, where the illiterate they will learn to write and read (though serving longer in this case), where there is an opportunity to get a specialty, and if you are lucky, you also have to stay to serve further, for an impoverished country the army gives good earnings. The risk of dying in a skirmish with the Kurds against the background of such meager benefits. So the faithful in Turkey has two paradises, the neighbor is a service in the army and the distant, this is Jannat (Paradise) after death.
    Many forum users judge Turkey by Antalya, etc., although there is poverty, miserable low-rise buildings with peeling facades right behind the main street, and when you drive into the Turkish outback you will see a lot of things, after which even a miserable Russian outback will seem like a paradise.
    Think about it - at home in Turkey are much cheaper than in Russia, but they can not be bought there by the local ...
  • Huseyn
    Huseyn 16 October 2012 18: 15 New
    0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sbFYxYabUs