Military Review

AK-12 come up with in Israel? Galil Ace review

107



The Kalashnikov assault rifle is one of the most famous samples in the world. Not one automatic model was created on its basis. weapons. However, there are no unshakable things - AK in a number of parameters required serious improvement and modernization. Now at the IZHMASH plant they are preparing a new model - AK-12, in the hope of giving a new weapon to the Russian army and returning the MO order, and presenting it to the open market. However, were they late for Izhmash? Meet Galil Ace, an Israeli machine gun in the service of Latin American armies.

AK-12 come up with in Israel? Galil Ace review



Galil Ace was a modernization of the classic Galil machine gun, and a distant descendant of AK. Initially, the company Valmet bought the AK license, creating its own model in the 5.56 caliber version, then the Israelis bought out a sublicense from the Finns and modernized the machine in their style, returning the frezirovanny receiver box (which was such only in early AK models), solving a number of problems with ergonomics ( butt, thumb protector, slide handle), etc. In the classic layout in Galil there was even a bottle opener (it is assumed that it appeared due to a large number of reservists). Galil was perhaps the most sought-after version of AK, and the ergonomic solutions used in it are often used to customize AK and Saiga carbines in the United States.



However, time passed. Galil was replaced at first by the M16 in different versions (“Galil” remained only in the support units, having left the infantry), and then “Tavor”. There was no place for “Galilu” in the IDF. However, the machine was still in demand on the international market. In particular, the Colombians turned to the Israelis, in whose army Galil had been successfully used for a long time. And now, a few years ago, a sample was created that corrected the main shortcomings of its predecessor.
Galil Ace turned out pretty good rifle. What was changed in it?




First, the machine has reduced the weight - its shortened version weighs 2.8 kg. This is achieved by actively using plastics and stamping. The receiver box is milled from steel, so it has high strength and resource. The cover of the receiver is stamped from steel, the neck of the magazine receiver, trigger guard and pistol grip are made of high-strength plastic.
Metal parts have a special anti-corrosion coating. Galil Ace is available in three lengths, under three different types of ammunition: NATO 5.56x45, 7.62x39 M43 and NATO 7.62x51.



Secondly, the details are interchangeable with other automata of the Galil system.

Thirdly, a telescopic butt and Picatinny rail, a convenient shaft for a magazine, a trigger mechanism and a fuse are installed.

Fourth, the slide lag has appeared, the recoil of the weapon has been reduced.

The flame arrester allows you to shoot rifle grenades.



Fifth, the bolt handle is moved to the left side, and the slot is covered with a dust cover that automatically opens when the bolt carrier rolls back and also automatically closes when it arrives in the forward position, reliably protecting the mechanisms of the weapon from dust, dirt and other foreign objects, regardless of fuse position.
The fuse-translator of fire regimes is duplicated on both sides of the weapon and provides firing with single shots and bursts.




The main consumer of Galil ACE is the Colombian army and is manufactured there under an IWI license by the Colombian factory Indumil. But they are not the only ones. The 22 of September at the Armament of the Defense Ministry of Peru Fábrica de Armas y Municiones del Ejército SAC (FAME) opened the assembly line of Israeli machine guns / assault rifles Galil ACE.




The licensed production of Galil ACE 21, 31 / 32 and 52 / 53 automatons for 7,62 × 51 mm, 5,56 × 45 mm and 7,62 × 39 mm ammunition cartridges will be carried out by the Peruvian enterprise in accordance with the agreement signed in the middle of the 2010 year, and the agreement will be signed. Weapon Industries (IWI).




The production capacity of FAME is designed for the release of 2000 machines per month. At the first stage, the Peruvian enterprise will assemble weapons from components supplied by an Israeli company. In the second stage, FAME will begin manufacturing the individual parts. In the future, it is planned to master the production of Galil ACE machines in full.
Previously, FAME employees underwent a short-term technical training course at the IWI plant in Tel Aviv. The army of Peru has adopted a machine gun.



Also, it is supplied to El Salvador, Guatemala and is in service with the special police forces of Mexico. To look at the machine in the Philippines.



According to the newspaper Globes of 2011, Vietnam also views Israeli weapons as a replacement for its outdated designs. Vietnamese marines are already "lit up" with Tavor. However, in addition, the 100 contract of millions of dollars was also reported, which includes the construction of a plant for the production of Galil: its construction, according to the information given in the article, should begin in 2013.
Moreover, a new version of Galil Ace - Galil Ace N is already on sale, with an adapter for the M16 stores. AK-12 should go to the series only in the 2013 year. How to know if Izhmash will be late with his version of the machine? Or maybe already late. In order not to finally lose his reputation and finally not lose positions, Izhmash will have to thoroughly try, and, finally, come up with something new.




















This article was written using resources.
weaponland.ru
world.guns.ru
www.israel-weapon.com
www.globes.co.il
Author:
107 comments
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  1. taseka
    taseka 14 October 2012 07: 08 New
    20
    Such a game of "soldiers" for the presidents, who will dress up theirs at the parade better!
    And I think that it is time not to think about the trunks, but about the sights on them for close, assault and field use! And then only Yakuts with Evenki shoot at our sight well on 350m.
    1. Reddragon
      Reddragon 14 October 2012 11: 35 New
      12
      Only those who shoot at all shoot well. Horn for a year is so, a treat.
      1. Captain Vrungel
        Captain Vrungel 14 October 2012 12: 15 New
        +8
        Yes, this weapon is relevant for special forces, where fire training comes first. In the motorized rifle unit. all these bells and whistles on the AK headache platoon commander, broke, lost, broken, stolen The weapon should be simple and reliable, Who in the battle will hold his breath when you press the trigger or shoot in bursts while running, looking into the collimator sight. A real battle is not a shooting range with a studied target setup with trodden paths and firing positions. Go through the obstacle course with him and the gunsmith will be provided with work.
        1. Pimply
          14 October 2012 12: 38 New
          +5
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          In the motorized rifle unit. all these bells and whistles on AK headache platoon commander, broke, lost, broke, stole


          This is the headache of a bad commander.

          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          A real battle is not a shooting range with a studied target setup with trodden paths and firing positions. Go through the obstacle course with him and the gunsmith will be provided with work.


          Surprise, but the whole world walks, uses in battle - and somehow did not lose his mind on the complexity of designs. Shooting bursts, especially on the run, is generally evil, by the way.
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 14 October 2012 14: 19 New
            11
            Quote: Pimply
            Shooting bursts, especially on the run, is generally evil, by the way.

            Not always! It's just that this opinion is formed by the experience of recent wars when armies have to finish off enemy units "driven into the ground" by aircraft, or (like the Israeli army) fight the rebels - which is more like a special operation than a combined arms battle. equals in technical equipment (in conditions when their own and other people's artillery, aviation, and both sides will actively use various means of camouflage (including smoke bombs) - the principle "I see - I shoot, I don't see - I don't shoot" can play a cruel joke, the first place will be the ability of units to fire as many bullets per second per square meter. For example: the battle of the American special forces with the townspeople of Magadisho - despite the overwhelming technical superiority, complete air supremacy, the refusal of the Magodisho militia to use mortars (there were civilians in the buildings captured by the Americans), tough guys with accurate rifles were helpless in front of the deale tants with the ancient AK. The inhabitants of Magadishu simply lit their car tires ...
            1. Alexei
              Alexei 14 October 2012 17: 17 New
              11
              Quote: Arkan
              in the first place will be the ability of units to release as many bullets per second per square meter

              That's right. And the bells and whistles, which do not allow some members of the forum to sleep soundly, are available for specialists, because they can help specialists, but for troops it’s a headache and nothing more.
            2. Pimply
              14 October 2012 19: 35 New
              +3
              You have a pretty poor idea of ​​the operation in Somalia. Fair. And then, when the collimators and optical sights of small multiplicity went to the troops of the US Army.
              To begin with, these two events were separated by 10 years. Well, the difference in the strength of the Somali rebels who entered the city was a ten-student. The Americans had 180 people, the Somalis - 2000 with a thousand hook. Losses - among Americans 18, among Somalis about 700 dead. And this was still considered a poorly conducted operation (since it was really poorly planned and went according to plan).
              1. Arkan
                Arkan 15 October 2012 00: 19 New
                +7
                Quote: Pimply
                You have a pretty poor idea of ​​the operation in Somalia. Fair.

                Perhaps you are not correctly informed about the reasons for this battle, its course, and the consequences. 1) If you want to do, ask about the behavior of the UN peacekeepers immediately before these events. 2) Find out the number of rangers raids on Magodisho in an attempt to kill Aidid and pay attention to the number of destroyed buildings and killed townspeople (what can you do - the Americans are often mistaken, in the first raid these idiots managed to arrest UN employees instead of Aidid). All this will help you understand what love the townspeople felt for all "peacekeepers" and "liberators". 3) Yes - u There were no collimator rangers, they were at the Delta and the seals (about 50 trunks, + a sniper on helicopters). It was after this operation that the USA began to massively sculpt collimators where they did not hit (hz why, the Americans in that battle were not saved by the accuracy of fire deltas and Pakistanis with armored vehicles and the same AK). 4) You give a figure of 180 fighters, pilots of 19 combat helicopters and a reconnaissance aircraft who participated in the battle, soldiers from the base enter The Pakistanis who went into battle later, with armored vehicles, you don't think of them as people at all, and five disabled helicopters is a trifle not worthy of attention? 5) What you call "Somali rebels" mostly consisted of an unarmed crowd (including women and children) queuing up for the empty barrel. And, again, neither artillery nor mortars were used by the police (not because there was no, but because the gallant American specialists used the tenants of the houses they occupied as a human shield). What is the ratio of losses in general, in this situation?

                Quote: Pimply
                since it was really poorly planned and went wrong

                It’s smiled. This, you know, with relatives, the Germans would have surely won the war against the USSR if it had been smaller and warmer (Well, the brilliant field marshals did not know that the USSR is a large country and in some places cold. And yes, the plans are brilliant, just nobody I guessed to look at the map and look at the calendar.) Judging by the measures taken after the battle, genius American strategists were prevented by an insufficient number of collimators (almost every third of them were there).
                6) How, in your opinion, would this battle end if any airborne company (with full standard armament) of any of the CIS countries reinforced by the GRU special forces and supported by two dozen MI-8 and MI-24 with the order "Take at any cost" would end up being the enemy of the Americans?
                1. Pimply
                  15 October 2012 03: 43 New
                  -1
                  So good to read bedtime stories.

                  I recommend trying to read something more intelligible. Then - learn to absorb what you read. I also recommend reading something other than Wikipedia and original materials
                  1. Arkan
                    Arkan 15 October 2012 11: 59 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Pimply
                    So good to read bedtime stories.

                    I recommend trying to read something more intelligible. Then - learn to absorb what you read. I also recommend reading something other than Wikipedia and original materials

                    ))))) Some of your posts just touched. Have you served as an user in the Israeli army for an hour? I’ll try to ask the same question in a language that is more understandable to you: How many frags would the contrasts fill in Magadishu if bots pumped up to the level would oppose them? Airborne forces of the USSR with the support of two dozen turntables, including assault turrets? Or are they not allowed to develop such a nagibalov in a din?

                    Quote: Pimply
                    since it was really poorly planned and went wrong

                    This is exactly what I call idiocy (in your opinion this is probably a glitch)
                    PS I wholeheartedly wish you to be promoted to the same rank in the Israeli army as on this site. In organizing the work of your headquarters and planning operations, you will love General Garison (if the game doesn’t fail, of course).
                2. viruskvartirus
                  viruskvartirus 15 October 2012 12: 07 New
                  0
                  The site had a good article on this operation. http://topwar.ru/14208-kak-padali-chernye-yastreby.html and so I remind you "In total, the US military lost 18 people killed; 74 were seriously wounded. Remembering their losses, the Americans somehow forget to honor the memory of those who saved their lives - from the rescue convoy 1 Malaysian tanker was killed, 2 more Pakistani peacekeepers were injured One American - the pilot of the Black Hawk Down, Michael Durant, was captured, from where he was rescued 11 days later in exchange for two captured Somalis. Somalis are unknown, although General Aidid gave the following figures - 315 people killed, 800 wounded. " "and as far as I understand, all the losses of the Samalis were presented as military and how many people suffered from the fact that" Little birds shot 80 cartridges and fired about a hundred unguided rockets. "
                3. Rosomaha67
                  Rosomaha67 13 July 2013 11: 46 New
                  0
                  am ours would have torn them like a Tuzik heating pad, purely for the sake of the fact that there would be no more such a case, so that later he would brag that he fought with amers .... laughing
          2. Joker
            Joker 14 October 2012 14: 47 New
            10
            Ahaha, as soon as I saw the article, I immediately realized who added it laughing
            1. Arkan
              Arkan 14 October 2012 14: 54 New
              +5
              Quote: Joker
              Ahaha, as soon as I saw the article, I immediately realized who added it

              Every goose praises its swamp - this is life. laughing
            2. Pimply
              14 October 2012 19: 28 New
              -1
              Oleg, I promised - it was necessary and I had some fun 8)
          3. rumpeljschtizhen
            rumpeljschtizhen 14 October 2012 15: 54 New
            +3
            Pimply plus 1000 I look here with many people thinking .... strange- a soldier moron supposedly he should be simpler and not to break or get lost .. officers well the mat part does not break ...
            this is the norm for a non-howling army ...
            1. Pimply
              15 October 2012 03: 34 New
              0
              This is not normal for any army.
            2. Cake
              Cake 24 July 2013 02: 10 New
              0
              For professional armies, various body kits for weapons are the norm. For Americans, for example, the ratio of supply personnel and soldiers is somewhere between 1 and 3-5; in the Russian Federation and others, the soldiers themselves, on delivery and provision, during the service, fired a pair of horns and then for happiness. What kind of collimators would be out of a grenade launcher?
        2. Rumata
          Rumata 14 October 2012 12: 46 New
          18
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          Who in battle will hold their breath when you press the trigger or shoot in bursts while running, looking into the collimator sight.

          Kallimatorny increases the aiming speed by 2-3 times, and the accuracy of fire approximately one and a half times. I used Elbit sights, and it’s not easy to break them. There are dozens of pluses, there are practically no minuses.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 18 October 2012 00: 46 New
            +1
            And most importantly, the newlyweds become a skilled sniper, the same Kalashnikov with a collimator sight is 4 times more effective
        3. rumpeljschtizhen
          rumpeljschtizhen 14 October 2012 15: 52 New
          +3
          write crap sorry. I don’t need to make it easier for officers is their job ... in all armies these bells and whistles are needed .. and we’ll break it down .. you see
        4. beard999
          beard999 14 October 2012 17: 08 New
          +4
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          this weapon is relevant to special forces

          If it is only a harness, then it is removable. There are no problems here. Yes, and the machine itself is not bad. The main problem of “Galil Ace” on the market is that the Israeli armed forces themselves have chosen a different model of automatic weapons. Add to this the high cost of Israeli weapons and one can quite reasonably assume that this model does not and will not have any particular commercial success. In any case, in the sun. No wonder its main market is an individual police unit in Latin America ...
          However, if the AK-12 will not be adopted by the Russian Armed Forces, it is likely that he will not be in any special demand. They will trade in small lots, whatever the specific modifications of the AK-12 (such as with balanced automation or 6,5 mm caliber). I admit that with this development, the tuning of previously released AK models will be in much greater demand than the AK-12 itself. Tuning at "Izhmash" is not expensive and quite balanced.
          1. Captain Vrungel
            Captain Vrungel 14 October 2012 18: 57 New
            +1
            Not the reliability and dimensions of the M-16 and Galil Ace forced Israel to adopt the TAR-21 in 4 versions. Cost is much higher than the state M-16. Ukraine, during the time of Yushchenko, acquired a license to issue TAR-21 on the Israeli-Ukrainian components model Fort-221. But nothing is clear with fate.
            1. Pimply
              14 October 2012 19: 51 New
              +2
              With Tavor - its own story and its reasons.
            2. Insurgent
              Insurgent 18 October 2012 00: 48 New
              0
              But unlike galil m-16 is much more accurate
              1. Pimply
                18 October 2012 02: 49 New
                0
                More precisely. One of the reasons why M-ku yuzali. Plus she's lighter. As for the accuracy of the new Galileo - I do not know. Need to hold and shoot. From the information that I found, it was greatly facilitated and increased accuracy.
          2. Pimply
            14 October 2012 19: 50 New
            0
            At the moment, two Latin American countries have taken the machine gun into service as the main weapon - Peru and Colombia. Next in turn is Vitam.
      2. datur
        datur 14 October 2012 12: 16 New
        +3
        Reddragonit's not even pampering belay it's nothing !!!! yes
      3. Alexei
        Alexei 14 October 2012 17: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: RedDragoN
        Only those who shoot at all shoot well. Horn for a year is so, a treat.

        Yeah, you can’t say better. good
    2. Civil
      Civil 14 October 2012 16: 04 New
      +4
      Taking the weapon and taking aim, D. Medvedev drew attention to a rather convenient butt. "Whose is this?" - he asked. And, turning his weapon, he found on the butt the inscription "Made in Israel." "The Israeli butt?" - he was surprised. “We can do it too,” Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who was in charge of the defense industry, immediately assured (photo: ITAR-TASS)


      something like that comrades ...
  2. YARY
    YARY 14 October 2012 08: 07 New
    +3
    Alexander, you're right!
    Could give 100+ would give.
  3. arkady149
    arkady149 14 October 2012 08: 21 New
    10
    Rockets don't fly, machine guns don't work - forgot how to do it? Or maybe the problem is in the "commiegs" they behave too redneck.
    1. Botanologist
      Botanologist 14 October 2012 20: 02 New
      +1
      As in a joke - "I had you all in my mouth and see right through! The last remark refers to the speech of the German delegation, which will claim that they invented the X-ray."
  4. Fox
    Fox 14 October 2012 08: 23 New
    +8
    what kind of Jews, well done! the author, if he could, would have kissed the asses of all the Semites ... or maybe already? having stolen everything from AK, they didn’t pay for the license ... peppers! to the author, if he really wanted to go out, go ahead and join the Israeli army!
    1. snek
      snek 14 October 2012 08: 39 New
      +5
      Quote: Fox
      having stolen everything from AK, they did not pay for the license ...


      In accordance with paragraph 1 of Art. 1363 of the Civil Code of the Russian Federation, the validity period of the exclusive right to an invention, utility model, industrial design and patent certifying this right shall be calculated from the date of filing the initial application and subject to the requirements established by the Civil Code of the Russian Federation, is: for inventions - 20 years; for utility models - 10 years; for industrial designs - 15 years.

      so the deadlines for all the patents on the base AK have passed long ago and whoever wants to can copy for free.
      1. Kaa
        Kaa 14 October 2012 13: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: snek
        All patents on the base AK have passed a long time ago and whoever wants to can copy for free.

        You cannot argue with that, but the title of the article - "AK-12 was invented in Israel" is akin to what the Soyuz, Apollo, Voevoda, Minuteman rockets were invented in China; firecrackers come from there! Here they are, the fathers of space launches and the Strategic Missile Forces!
    2. Mitzhel
      Mitzhel 14 October 2012 08: 47 New
      +3
      Firstly, Jews bought a license for AK a long time ago, and secondly, they are really great, that they do not stand still. Just like Galil Ace was supposed to be AK in the RA of the beginning of the 21st century ...
      1. Mitzhel
        Mitzhel 14 October 2012 10: 45 New
        -3
        I’m wondering what kind of audience, instead of arguments and facts, is simply idiotic minus? Che - really burns his eyes but nothing to say ?? laughing
        1. Kaa
          Kaa 14 October 2012 13: 14 New
          +3
          Quote: Mitzhel
          Che - really burns his eyes but nothing to say ??

          Not minus, does not burn, but to say something - yes. If the AK-12 was invented in Israel, then here is the inventor of the "Iron Dome" in national dress ...
    3. Pimply
      14 October 2012 09: 02 New
      +7
      The author used Galil in the Israeli army.
      Jews bought a sub-license from the Finns, who also bought a license from the USSR and remade the AK in Velmet under 5.56. You would have discovered this if you had carefully read the article. Patents for the base AK have expired, and now there are licenses only for individual nodes. In the Israeli version of such independent nodes a lot.

      AK-12 is also an attempt to introduce such nodes. But they are doing it so slowly that they are several years behind with their implementation, and it looks much worse than Galil even externally. Therefore, I raise the question - is it time to move the rolls, and live not yesterday, but today and tomorrow.
    4. Reddragon
      Reddragon 14 October 2012 11: 38 New
      +2
      And to me, the machine gun from the article reminds me of the German style - again they stole something.
    5. Insurgent
      Insurgent 18 October 2012 00: 50 New
      -1
      Wise guy, do you know that the AK-12 borrowed a fire mode switch near the handle itself and the shutter at gplilya is more convenient not a small lever but a handle and the hand will not slip in a hurry
      1. Pimply
        18 October 2012 02: 51 New
        +2
        It is somewhat controversial. It was just that these were old and fairly obvious decisions. The question is that on AK they have only just begun to put them into practice
  5. redcod
    redcod 14 October 2012 08: 45 New
    +9
    I doubt that in the photo there are soldiers of the regular units. By all appearances, they are specialists. It’s easier to arm specialists than the whole army. It's all about the cost of the machine. Recently, we often confuse two concepts: war and special operation, albeit a large-scale one. First of all, war is dirt, sand, dust, water, heat, frost, blows to stone and armor, etc. etc. The vaunted Western samples created for sale, international salons and beautiful reports are unlikely to withstand intensive use in real conditions. Even the G-36, which was considered the standard for machine guns, was recommended by experts to be less intense in Afghanistan. Why are there no such complaints for AK?
    1. Mitzhel
      Mitzhel 14 October 2012 09: 01 New
      +2
      There are ordinary soldiers there. At militarefotos, a large thread about the Colombian army and other LatAmerican armies. If Russia still cannot supply its soldiers with a sufficient number of collimators, cannot shod them, dress and equip them normally, this does not mean that Latin American countries should imitate Russia.
    2. Pimply
      14 October 2012 09: 10 New
      +2
      In black uniforms - the federal police of Mexico - elite units. Bottom photo - Salvodor police. In the gerbil and black bronchiki - specialists from the detachment for the release of the hostages of the Colombian army.

      But there are quite a few photographs and Colombians from regular parts - there Galil Ace gradually crowds out the old Galil.

      For example, the marines.



      The vaunted western samples withstand, and quite well.

      According to G36 - it is recommended to read the news in the original and reaction - the situation is taken out of context.
      1. with
        with 14 October 2012 09: 39 New
        +4
        Quote: Pimply
        For example, the marines.

        Who is it that can make the Marpekhs INSPECT ???
        Not otherwise Pupyrchaty --- journalist-Know-it-all !!!))) bully
        1. Pimply
          14 October 2012 09: 43 New
          +4
          Will you tell me then who is in the photograph that I quoted just above?
          1. with
            with 14 October 2012 09: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: Pimply
            Tell me then, who is in the photograph that I quoted a little higher?

            Probably your Marines ????))) bully
            Then I am calm for my country !!! good
            1. Pimply
              14 October 2012 10: 04 New
              -1
              Whose are yours? Exactly?
              1. with
                with 14 October 2012 10: 29 New
                0
                Quote: Pimply
                whose are you? Exactly?

                Do you mean that we have the MARPS weak ???
                So ...... I will disappoint YOU !!!



                Listen, maybe RIGHT ???
                He really has a vest of landing, but you still listen !!!

                1. Pimply
                  14 October 2012 10: 35 New
                  +2
                  Interesting, and far will carry you? You write to me about "your marines". I ask you - about whose of yours?

                  But after all, it all started with a photograph of the Marines of the Colombian Armed Forces. Interesting, right?
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 14 October 2012 10: 42 New
                    +5
                    Hi Met, forget it again banned and mustache belay
                  2. with
                    with 14 October 2012 11: 03 New
                    0
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Interestingly, and how far will it carry you?

                    For you .... probably far away !!!
                    Quote: Pimply
                    You write to me about "your marines". I ask you - about whose of yours?

                    Ask, you and your wife can, of course, if she allows TE !!!))) bully
                    Quote: Pimply
                    But after all, it all started with a photograph of the Marines of the Colombian Armed Forces. Interesting, right?

                    And why are they entertaining ???
                    You are also a fool ????)))) bully
                    Administration is simply a statement of FACT !!!! hi
                2. Armata
                  Armata 14 October 2012 11: 27 New
                  +7
                  Met, thanks for the video. good

                  Eugene (Pupyrchaty) Namesake think in Israel the most modifications of our Kalash. And then we did our best. We don’t need to attribute these merits to ourselves. This is not plagiarism, but just a modification of the old machine.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 14 October 2012 11: 31 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Mechanic
                    This is not plagiarism, but just a modification of the old machine

                    Yes, what plagiarism can be at all, a purely Russian development is the next modification. Here is the American F 15 pure plagiarism.
                    1. Rezun
                      Rezun 14 October 2012 13: 26 New
                      +4
                      I apologize for interfering ...

                      That is why Bumpy posted the article, because you, and the Mechanic, and Met are not "on the drum", unlike the "others."
                    2. Pimply
                      14 October 2012 19: 53 New
                      -2
                      I’ll get comfortable. What is the plagiarism of F15?
                  2. Pimply
                    14 October 2012 11: 37 New
                    13
                    In my opinion, nowhere is it about Kalash laurels. In this article, I analyze the example of Galil Ase that the AK-12, not yet born, begins the race with a huge lag. I am talking about the inertness of IZHMASH, and, in particular, the inertia of users of this resource. It is important and necessary to be proud of good things. Just do not forget that a veteran is a veteran of any war. not only the Great Patriotic War, but the AK was invented in the late 40s, and that to develop a new model for technology that is 20-30 years behind the times, living a legend will result only in the complete death of the weapons school.
                    1. Armata
                      Armata 14 October 2012 11: 42 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Pimply
                      In this article, I analyze the example of Galil Ase that AK-12, not yet being born, begins the race with a huge lag. I’m talking about the inertness of Izhmash,
                      Yes it is. I agree here. Russians harness for a long time, but drive fast.
                      Quote: Pimply
                      AK was invented at the end of the 40's, and that to develop a new model for the technology of the 20-30, which had fallen behind the times, living a legend would result only in the complete death of the weapons school.
                      But agree that these technologies are some of the most advanced so far. And more reliable than the three-line, PPS, Degtyarev and AK no one.
                      1. Pimply
                        14 October 2012 11: 49 New
                        +5
                        Sure? There were Lee Enfeld, M1Grand, FN MAG and many other samples. The AK circuit is reliable - but nothing stands still, and there are already not one or two samples that combine reliability and accuracy.
                        One can and should be proud of their weapons models. But do not forget that the world does not stand still.
                      2. Armata
                        Armata 14 October 2012 12: 07 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Pimply

                        Sure? There were Lee Enfeld, M1 Grand, FN MAG and many other samples.

                        Zhen, please answer. When "Armata" comes out, will you also compare it with your chariots? Or when our 80 guys put 300 bandits in, will you also compare to your soldiers? Find a braver one than Russian? There are examples when 80 TSEKHAL soldiers rushed 1000 people better than the armed ones and held them?
                      3. Pimply
                        14 October 2012 12: 32 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        Zhen, please answer. When "Armata" comes out, will you also compare it with your chariots? Or when our 80 guys put 300 bandits in, will you also compare to your soldiers? Find a braver one than Russian? There are examples when 80 TSEKHAL soldiers rushed 1000 people better than the armed ones and held them?


                        Zhenya, you’ve already been taken to a completely different steppe, right?
                        If you ask so - yes, I will compare Armata with Merkava 4, at least. Because yes, they are constantly doing this.

                        And Zhenya, doesn’t it seem to you that the history of Israeli wars, especially at first, is just the story when a small group fights against a large one, no? Israel has not just become better armed, for example. He had and has to fight on several fronts at once. And often had to fight with old French and English weapons against the Soviet modern at that time.

                        If you ask for a specific situation - there is a story of Zwicky Gringold, for example - drive into a search. And, about the same situation - 180 Israeli tanks against about 1300 Syrian tanks, the very beginning of the Doomsday War. I highly recommend reading, since you have suffered in this jungle.

                        And honestly - if you ask a question, then do not do it in a provocative manner
                      4. Armata
                        Armata 14 October 2012 12: 39 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Pimply
                        And honestly - if you ask a question, then do not do it in a provocative manner
                        Yes, I'm sorry for this, got excited. I just didn’t really like your reaction to the meta video.
                      5. Pimply
                        14 October 2012 12: 48 New
                        0
                        I have a reaction not to the video, but to Meta himself, who, after the ban, decided to have fun with provocations and is openly rude not the first time, with knowledge, however, without striking.

                        I had several friends who fought in Chechnya, both grandfathers were officers. And I believe that you can be a patriot without losing your mind, but better knowing the story (not only your own, but also someone else's), proud of the past, but living in the present and looking to the future.
                  3. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 14 October 2012 13: 08 New
                    0
                    Quote: Mechanic
                    There are examples when 80 Tseshal soldiers rushed 1000 people better than the armed ones and kept them?

                    Bad example!
                    a dark story, more than once this case was discussed !!
                  4. bask
                    bask 14 October 2012 13: 15 New
                    +4
                    Out of 80 soldiers, 80% were from the USSR. What in Lebanon in 2006 did not throw at Hebala.? And, culturally, they draped. There per 1000 Hezbollah fighters there were just XNUMX Tsahalians. !!!
                  5. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 14 October 2012 13: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: bask
                    culturally, draped. There per 1000 Hezbollah fighters there were just XNUMX Tsahalis. !!!

                    here you are bent !!
                    and do not be so aggressive, you first read all the comments then rush to Zhenya!
                    Although I would have attacked myself, but so far there is no reason))))))
                  6. Pimply
                    14 October 2012 19: 55 New
                    +1
                    I hasten to grieve - even in the most distressing years, the number of immigrants from the USSR did not exceed 15% in the IDF.
                    I would like to hear about culturally draped about a little more specifically: with dates, geography, etc.
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: Pimply
          In this article, I analyze the example of Galil Ase that the AK-12, not yet being born, begins the race with a huge lag

          And you are absolutely right !!
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 41 New
        +5
        Quote: Mechanic
        but just a modification of the old automaton

        We also have a modification)))))))
        Khazri !!
        1. with
          with 14 October 2012 11: 47 New
          +1
          Quote: Yarbay
          We also have a modification)))))))
          Khazri !!

          Why is it so??
          Would you still Borz kicked into service !!))

          [img]http://im4-tub-ru.yandex.net/i?id=519234680-41-72&n=21[/img]
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 53 New
            +4
            Quote: met
            Would you still Borz kicked into service !!))

            95m saw a greyhound, trash is still that))))))))))
            the one with whom he was, asked me not to shoot, because I could not guarantee whether the bullet would fly in that direction in which direction the barrel was looking))))))))))))
            and Khazri is all for garlic, bought a license and made beautiful))))))
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 14 October 2012 10: 44 New
    0
    Quote: met
    Who is it that can make the Marpekhs INSPECT ??

    this is a provocation)))))
    Zhenya didn’t say anything like that))))))))
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 14 October 2012 10: 54 New
      +6
      Quote: Yarbay
      Zhenya didn’t say anything like that))))))

      Alibek, and you can guarantee that he did not think so wassat
      1. with
        with 14 October 2012 11: 06 New
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Alibek, and you can guarantee that he didn’t think it wassat

        San YOU are right !!! hi
        A provocation must be killed immediately, and not later, as Alibek is convinced of, fighting the "infidels" !!!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 14 October 2012 11: 12 New
          +6
          Quote: met
          Provocation must be killed immediately

          I deleted some of your comments, Met do not touch let him write.
          Quote: met
          , what Alibek is convinced of, fighting the "infidels" !!

          Alibek, hide the dagger, buy AK 12, a good automatic machine - modern wink
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 17 New
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Alibek, hide the dagger, buy AK 12, a good automatic machine - modern

            I am a law abiding person!
            You can buy a dagger from us!)))
            I don’t need a machine for a pensioner)))
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: met
          A provocation must be killed immediately, and not later, as Alibek is convinced of, fighting the "infidels" !!!

          made sure!!)))))
          This is a big difference)))))
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 07 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        and you can guarantee that he did not think so

        No Sasha, I can not))))
        Here Met is right from Zhenya you can expect such a thought)))))))
        1. Pimply
          14 October 2012 11: 15 New
          0
          Quote: met
          Do you mean that we have the MARPS weak ???


          Alibek, such? Sorry, then you are unlikely to read me carefully
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 23 New
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            Alibek, such?

            Sorry, Eugene, but moreover Alibek??)))
            I’m just for you to get along peacefully and if possible be friends with clubs of officers)))
          2. with
            with 14 October 2012 11: 25 New
            +3
            Quote: Pimply
            Alibek, such? Sorry, then you are unlikely to read me carefully

            I'm not Alibek !!!!))) love
            My name is Sergey !!!)))
            1. Pimply
              14 October 2012 11: 25 New
              0
              I’m not communicating with you - the light has not converged on you like a wedge.
              1. with
                with 14 October 2012 11: 30 New
                0
                Quote: Pimply
                I’m not communicating with you - the light has not converged on you like a wedge.

                Yes you SHO ???
                Really ????)))


            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 30 New
              +4
              Quote: met
              My name is Sergey !!!)))

              At last))))))))))
              Chipped))))))))))))))))))))

              and it was necessary to persist for a month?)))))
              1. with
                with 14 October 2012 11: 34 New
                +4
                Quote: Yarbay
                At last))))))))))
                Chipped))))))))))))))))))))
                the truth again, Israeli soldiers were at their best))))))))
                and it was necessary to persist for a month?)))))

                Not really yours !!)))
                A year ago, I wrote about this !!!)))
                Your services do not work carefully !!!))) bully
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 39 New
                  +3
                  Quote: met
                  A year ago, I wrote about this !!!)))

                  There was no us a year ago))))
                  Sweden just found out about you)))
                2. with
                  with 14 October 2012 11: 42 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  There was no us a year ago))))
                  Sweden just found out about you)))

                  "Poor" Sweden !!!)) good
                  The Germans are still "itching" from me, and Honduras is so BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!)))) bully
                3. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 44 New
                  +1
                  Quote: met
                  "Poor" Sweden !!!))

                  I dare to correct you, Unhappy)))))))))))))))
                4. with
                  with 14 October 2012 11: 52 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  I dare to correct you, Unhappy)))))))))))))))

                  And this does not cause denial !!!))))) bully drinks

  • tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 14 October 2012 09: 46 New
    0
    That's interesting, why are all the soldiers wearing glasses? What the Americans what the rest of the NATO! Probably afraid to go blind! lol
    1. Pimply
      14 October 2012 09: 49 New
      +2
      There are no NATO members
    2. Mitzhel
      Mitzhel 14 October 2012 09: 53 New
      10
      Of course they are afraid to go blind and that’s why they wear a variety of ballistic glasses. And they’re doing it right ... a soldier should protect his eyes from small fragments, dust, etc.



    3. Kaa
      Kaa 14 October 2012 15: 12 New
      -4
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      That's interesting, why are all the soldiers wearing glasses?

      These are virtual reality glasses, the point doesn’t play like that ... in a combat situation ... you think that there are 9 more lives left, you can pass this level again. laughing
  • wolk71
    wolk71 14 October 2012 10: 00 New
    +6
    I completely agree with you, if (God forbid, of course) a large-scale war starts, then the old AK-47 and AK-74 will be in great demand, not a single machine in the world can work better in combat conditions.
  • Sanches
    Sanches 14 October 2012 17: 23 New
    +1
    redcod Today, 08: 45
    Even the G-36, which was considered the standard for machine guns, was recommended by experts to be less intense in Afghanistan. Why are there no such complaints for AK?
    from the G-36 it is recommended to shoot with a cutoff of 3 rounds, because the plastic forend melts. But believe me, this is the best shooting mode that can only be at distances farther than "point blank". And for AK, which can be obtained for free and without a fight, there are no complaints and will not be
  • Averias
    Averias 14 October 2012 08: 45 New
    +9
    Didn't quite understand the article. Is this a frank PR of Israeli weapons, or a frank hint that we and machine guns have forgotten how to do? As I know on the new Kalash there is an Israeli butt. Well, the most important thing is that the mech.chast worked properly. Or does the author want to say that we are gradually losing the small arms market? I doubt how many "wild boars" were purchased from us. The fact that the Israelis make good machines has long been known. Just do not need to raise it to the rank of a cult, in the context of making it clear that other losers.
    1. Mitzhel
      Mitzhel 14 October 2012 08: 58 New
      -5
      And how much specifically did the USA buy the boar?
      With regard to Russia's competitiveness in the international small arms market, apart from the contract with Venezuela for the supply of AKs, I can’t recall anything more serious ... After all, Colombia, it’s unlikely that it will sell licensed Galilia with knives from Venezuela
      1. Town Guard
        Town Guard 6 December 2012 21: 29 New
        +1
        Actually, there was a contract for Ak-103-3 back in Libya. But then, an operation against the colonel soon began - so I don’t know the fate of the contract. But the AK-103 still surfaced in Libya. In addition, here: http: //werewolf0001.livejournal.com/535305.html
        It is alleged that the Ak-103 is produced under license in another country. And Azerbaijan bought a license for the Ak and issues it with an Israeli body kit called khazri.
    2. Rumata
      Rumata 14 October 2012 09: 11 New
      +5
      Quote: Averias
      you just do not need to raise it to the rank of a cult, in the context of making it clear that other losers.

      I think the author wants to convey the idea that a niche has recently formed in countries for which the old AK (and old Galil) is no longer suitable, but there is no suitable Russian alternative. If the AK-12 were completed, he could, theoretically, take Galil's place in a number of these countries. After Galil purchased the market of these countries for Izhmash is lost
  • valokordin
    valokordin 14 October 2012 09: 10 New
    +2
    Beautiful machine in the pictures. I do not think that specialists in Israel are more stupid than ours. If there is no consent or strong-willed right decision of the vice prime minister, the Democrats will conquer the problem and we will goof off, as in India with turntables.
  • Pimply
    14 October 2012 09: 14 New
    +1
    Yes, if you need any explanation on the pics - write. Yellow bullshit is a simple plastic fuse for machine guns that prevents an accidental shot and the likelihood of a bullet in the barrel. He repeats the shape of a bullet, and only a yellow tail sticks out. If necessary, you only need to cock the shutter.
    1. bask
      bask 14 October 2012 09: 31 New
      +2
      What to ask about the history of the creation of Galilia is known After the Doomsday war, when your ,, praised ,, Amerov’s M16 got wedged in the sand (desert)., And AK continued to shoot in the sand. Israel ,, did not give a damn, began to copy automatics against the USA AK at its technological level. By the way continues to upgrade constantly.
      1. Pimply
        14 October 2012 09: 37 New
        +2
        M16 was not fought in the Doomsday War. They fought machine guns FN and PP Uzi. Deliveries of M16 were already retroactively.
        In addition, the project was presented in 1969, that is, when they did not know about any M16 in Israel.
        Galil, with all its advantages, was nevertheless displaced by M16. But production - also for a number of reasons - has been preserved.
        1. bask
          bask 14 October 2012 09: 47 New
          -1
          Everyone, special forces and Israeli paratroopers by the year 70 were 100% armed with the M16 Why was they ousted?
          1. Pimply
            14 October 2012 09: 55 New
            0
            Not used since the mid 2000s. Everywhere in Tzahal it is replaced by M16 and Tavor.

            Israeli paratroopers - this is the armament of the PD 35 of that period in the platoon:

            1) 1 52-mm mortar;
            2) 1 82-mm grenade launcher;
            3) 3 rifle grenade launchers on the FN FAL;
            4) 3 light machine guns FAL-HB;
            5) 10 "Uzi" (if the grenade launcher had "number 2");
            6) 14 FN FAL (i.e. 20, including the 3rd and 4th points).
      2. Mitzhel
        Mitzhel 14 October 2012 09: 44 New
        -1
        A lot of time has passed since the war where "amerovskie M16s were wedged in the sands", but the IDF for some reason did not switch to Galilas. Galil is primarily a product for export. Jews are quite satisfied with modern versions of m16 / m4 and new Tavors ...
        1. Pimply
          14 October 2012 09: 48 New
          +6
          M16 was not in active combat during the Doomsday War.
          In 1982, combat units were actively used by Galili, somewhere for 10 years, then Galili left the infantry to tankmen, artillerymen and rear units, until they were driven out in the mid-2000s by the final entry into service of Tavor.
  • erased
    erased 14 October 2012 09: 28 New
    +5
    Two conclusions from the article.
    1. It is necessary to carefully monitor the licenses and demand a ban on illegal copying. especially for future developments.
    2. The principle until thunder strikes still taxis. It was necessary to modernize Kalashnikov or create a new one 10 years ago. Another thing is that then all this did not care.

    Opinion. A terrible amount of body kits on some samples looks incomprehensible. How will a soldier carry this all to the battlefield? Or made for specialists?
    1. Pimply
      14 October 2012 09: 34 New
      +9
      Firstly, licenses are valid for a limited time. The patent for the basic AK was not normally filed, and, in any case, has long expired. Now all the nodes are being patented - you can find a patent, for example, the nodes of the AK hundredth series - are on the network.

      The Israelis officially bought their license through Velmet (Finnish), which also purchased a license from the USSR and made its version of AK under cartridge 5.56.

      As for body kits - this is a normal trend of our time. Collimators, small optical sights, tactical handles and lights are all very useful features
      1. Sanches
        Sanches 14 October 2012 17: 44 New
        +4
        Eugene, while ours will continue to run in budenovki with hyper-reliable oars instead of machines, do not even try to explain to them about body kits smile
  • with
    with 14 October 2012 09: 33 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    Yes, if you need any explanation on the pics - write.

    You write to you!!!
    What is it with Vietnam ???)))



    Well, what is weak ????))) bully
    1. bask
      bask 14 October 2012 09: 38 New
      +2
      Wow met. Thoughts are similar. You're talking about Vtnam, I'm talking about the Arab - Israeli wars. And everywhere AK wins.
      1. Pimply
        14 October 2012 09: 39 New
        0
        He's talking about something else, not about the machine. Also, by the way, not knowing the history of the issue.
      2. with
        with 14 October 2012 09: 55 New
        -1
        Quote: bask
        Wow met. Thoughts are similar. You're talking about Vtnam, I'm talking about the Arab - Israeli wars. And everywhere AK wins.


        bask hi
        I will not argue with him-Admin banned !!!!
        Although I really want to !!!!
        But AKA - there is AKA and Nihto has not canceled it except Pupyrchaty !!!)))
        1. Pimply
          14 October 2012 09: 57 New
          0
          Yeah. Therefore, we will run around the posts and put the cons. Heroically
          1. with
            with 14 October 2012 10: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            Yeah. Therefore, we will run around the posts and put the cons. Heroically

            Okay, live, if you’re so afraid of minuses !!!)))

            1. Pimply
              14 October 2012 10: 13 New
              +1
              It’s wonderful that instead of knowledge and some reasonable thoughts, the only thing you can do is run-minus, post pictures and not be responsible for actions. Have a good day.
            2. snek
              snek 14 October 2012 10: 24 New
              +7
              Oftopic. Am I the only one here beginning to forget a little * an excess of demotivators and other images that are not directly related to the topic under discussion? You can vote "+" and "-" to this comment.
              Itself a few times before, I fasted it, but now I have sworn.
              The rating doesn’t really bother me, so if you do not agree, feel free to click the minus (well, if you agree, also feel free to click the plus).
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 October 2012 10: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: met
          I will not argue with him-Admin banned !!!!

          Again Vetnam?))))))))))))))) \
          1. with
            with 14 October 2012 11: 16 New
            +2
            Quote: Yarbay
            Again Vetnam?))))))))))))))) \

            A Che then ????))))
            My older friends fought there, so why turn on the liar ???))) hi
            Although in our lives, mountain ... are found, I’m only afraid that Pupyrchaty is not Choir at all, but simply Plain ........ !!!)))

            Sasha, Ches. the word --- I won’t be anymore !!))) hi
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 14 October 2012 11: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: met
              A Che then ????))))

              In the courtyard of the 21st century)))))
              already fighting drones)))))))))))))))
              and you're all about Vietnam))))))))
              Forget it in FIG))))))
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 14 October 2012 09: 49 New
    +8
    What difference does it make who and when bought the license or copied something. The Chinese, for example, use the entire arsenal (from purchase to copy) and are not particularly burdened by the priority problem. Of the main concern is to arm your army with modern, as far as possible, weapons and military equipment. This should probably, first of all, concern the Russian army, and not just what and when the corals Karl stole from Clara
  • lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 14 October 2012 10: 19 New
    +3
    While our military staff officers crumble rolls, like, dislike and give me something, I don’t know what, not only sales markets, but also the army
  • Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 14 October 2012 10: 21 New
    0
    And to hell with them - they ruined a good thing and are proud ...
    Personally, I don't like it - and that’s it ...
    To be honest, I already got a photo of these clowns playing cool ...
    1. Colonel
      Colonel 14 October 2012 12: 03 New
      0
      Come on, if only clowning. And also an attempt to sell stolen goods. For this, it is necessary to put it in zin.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 14 October 2012 12: 07 New
      +4
      Quote: Brother Sarich
      To be honest, I already got a photo of these clowns playing cool

      What is their clowning ??
      not playing, but serving their country !!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 14 October 2012 15: 44 New
        -4
        Clowns are ordinary clowns ...
        1. Pimply
          14 October 2012 19: 57 New
          +5
          I wonder - what are the clowns of the Colombian quick reaction forces or the Mexican police special squads? o_o
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 14 October 2012 11: 04 New
    +7
    And further. The Israelis have the main problem in terms of small arms to have such weapons that are convenient to use primarily in the narrow streets of Arab settlements, i.e. it should be light and compact, yet powerful enough and "intact" when shooting at long distances. And they already have this weapon and is not at all Galil. It is called "Tavor" (TAR-21) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBkpznyv65k.
    Those. the Israelis create their weapons primarily for the theater of operations on which they have to fight. And this theater is very specific. Frost and slush are not observed there, but there is enough sand, dust and high temperatures. Yes, and women who are more comfortable in the Israeli army to carry light and compact machine guns on themselves, rather than bulky Galilas or M16.
    In Russia, the range of possible combat use of small arms is much wider, and therefore the design must correspond to this range. In this regard, the modernization of the existing AK models is what is needed at this stage, given the current state of the military-industrial complex and its production capabilities. And when modernizing AK, production does not need to be put on its head, and the main units have been tested for a long time, and the range of modern "poultices" is much larger. And foreign clientele honors AK. After all, it's one thing to sell something that has been tested for decades, and quite another to sell a pig in a poke
    1. Pimply
      14 October 2012 11: 10 New
      +1
      Slush - 5 months of the year rains heavy rains. There are frost points. In addition, Israel supplies 80% of its defense industry abroad. And this means that all the basic criteria are met both for low and high temperatures, etc.

      But this article is not about that.
      1. mox
        mox 14 October 2012 18: 45 New
        +5
        Pimpy! Well, you can’t beat the inflamed Yalachia so cruelly !.
        Thank you for the article and comments.
  • in reserve
    in reserve 14 October 2012 11: 15 New
    +2
    Who knows if Izhmash will be late with his version of the machine? Or maybe already late.


    Not late, first of all we create a machine for ourselves, and only then whoever wants to let him buy.
    1. Joker
      Joker 14 October 2012 21: 50 New
      +1
      And here you are wrong, AK-12 was created as an export version, they just decided to buy a batch for the special services, they really liked it. Still, when they saw the new weapon for the last time, probably when they bought a batch of Western snipers.
  • Rockets
    Rockets 14 October 2012 11: 47 New
    +2
    It seems that the understanding that AK needs ruschechki and lace came to our manufacturers and the military. Huskies, this is not an automaton that needs to be designed. It is just an appearance. Well, the Jews could not, and all the rest they could not invent in 50 years, nor anything cooler than Kalashnikov. So they use, which is better
    It only says that AK, UNSURPASSED BARREL! And they stayed
    And from good, they are not looking for good!
    And the author of the article, Ponty, is cheap. And your machines, this is fake AK, it will remain! Not you first, not you last
    1. Pimply
      14 October 2012 11: 54 New
      +5
      Well, as if in the Israeli army, Tavor is now in service, and not Galil Ace. Galil Ace goes to the foreign consumer - along with Tavor.

      Quote: Rockets
      And the author of the article, Ponty, is cheap. And your machines, this is a fake AK, and it will remain! Not you first, not you last

      My? hi
      1. Rockets
        Rockets 14 October 2012 12: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        My?

        If the author is you, then your
        Are you trying to position Galil with AK
        YOUR Galil is a licensed version of Finnish Valmet Rk 62, which is a licensed copy of the AK machine. Israel has never had a license to manufacture or modernize an AK.
        1. Pimply
          14 October 2012 12: 36 New
          +4
          Yeah. That does not preclude the legitimate acquisition of a license and the development of an original design at the Valmet ball, which is a clone of AK, which, in principle, no one forgets.

          In this case, I consider Galil Ase and AK-12 - namely them - as occupying approximately the same market niche. However, the AK-12 begins to lose this niche, for a number of reasons, before it even goes into production. And I compare not even the machines themselves so much - in principle, they are similar, but the approach and principles of work of developers and manufacturers.
          1. Rockets
            Rockets 14 October 2012 12: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            I, in this case, consider Galil Ase and AK-12 - it’s them

            You cannot compare them. At least by the fact that AK 12 is undergoing factory tests. And there is no complete information on it.
            And taking into account the fact that Kalash has accumulated in our warehouses for more than one big war, and their disposal is not planned. Because of their feasibility, they are easier to upgrade at minimal cost. Those same little thingies and lace.
            What does the version have crazy handles "upgrade yourself" at the expense of factory kits. Cheap and cheerful. And let's see where your NEWEST Galil is compared to the old AK
            1. Pimply
              14 October 2012 12: 58 New
              +1
              Correctly. Only in this situation, Izhmash must be closed and completely abandon the shooting. Well, unless the US civilian market continues to work.

              The "upgrade yourself" kit presented by Ragozin was a kit from the Israeli firm CAA Tactical, with an average retail price of just under 400 euros. Nice, correct move. You just need to go ahead, right?

              AK-12 was presented at the exhibition this year. And in 2013, he should already go into the series. And I am sure that in a year he will not undergo fundamental changes.
              1. Rockets
                Rockets 14 October 2012 13: 18 New
                +1
                Quote: Pimply
                Correctly. Only in this situation, Izhmash must be closed and completely abandon the shooting. Well, unless the US civilian market continues to work.

                NOT PROPERLY!
                And it’s not only IzhMash who shoots at us, in particular AK assault rifles
                And the market at IzhMash is not only civilian and not only the USA



                Quote: Pimply
                The "upgrade yourself" kit presented by Ragozin was a kit from the Israeli firm CAA Tactical, with an average retail price of just under 400 euros. Nice, correct move. You just need to go ahead, right?

                It's just, one of the options let's see what will happen to ours since 400 euros is in the markets of Asia and Africa 3-4 AK;)


                Quote: Pimply
                AK-12 was presented at the exhibition this year. And in 2013, he should already go into the series. And I am sure that in a year he will not undergo fundamental changes.

                Do you know its exact performance characteristics?


                1. Pimply
                  14 October 2012 19: 59 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Rockets
                  NOT PROPERLY!
                  And it’s not only IzhMash who shoots at us, in particular AK assault rifles
                  And the market at IzhMash is not only civilian and not only the USA


                  Yeah. The Ministry of Internal Affairs, the countries of the former USSR, Venezuela - thanks to a loan of several billion.
  • Varies
    Varies 14 October 2012 12: 47 New
    +1
    a nationwide article in no way, do not buy these Jewish rifles in the military !? drones so enough.
  • Rumata
    Rumata 14 October 2012 12: 58 New
    +9
    A strange trend on the site recently. When an article appears about the successes, even of the dubious ones, of the Russian military-industrial complex, 90% of comments are a joyful calf screech. At the same time, articles about at least some successes of foreign weapons cause stuffing of negativity. There is less and less site about armament and army and more and more forum of cheers, most of which do not even try to communicate on the merits.

    An article about a possible competitor to the AK-12, because you can start a discussion about the advantages and disadvantages.
    1. OSTAP BENDER
      OSTAP BENDER 14 October 2012 17: 21 New
      -3
      Rumata! Yes, the patriots of Russia are sitting on the site, yes, and we are very happy to accept new weapons after almost a 20-year break! You do not understand this, especially since you, and others like you, are sitting here, and they are trying to spoil everything, with your calf squeal! And yet, we do not belong to cheers-patriots, it's just a shame for the power! A strange trend is happening on the site, it was occupied by the Zionists, and they are imposing their opinions, but not just imposing them, but they have organized a dictatorship !!!!
      1. Rumata
        Rumata 14 October 2012 19: 06 New
        +6
        Quote: OSTAP BENDER
        Rumata! Yes, patriots of Russia are sitting on the site, yes, and we are very pleased to accept new weapons

        Yes, rejoice as much as you like, your right. There is a difference between joy and pride for their country, and hurray-patriotism, when "All of them" is humorous, "all ours" - has no analogues in the galaxy. Previously, weapons were discussed here, argued, even got personal, but from the comments one could almost always learn something new and interesting, now it has turned into an endless shit.

        When, 3 hours after the article about Iran and Israel appeared, dozens of videos and comments about the ritual Jewish sacrifices of Slavic children, "goyim" and the world conspiracies of the Illuminati Jews, the enslavement of Russia by the NATO and US armies, appear in the comments, it becomes disgusting and offensive ...
        1. OSTAP BENDER
          OSTAP BENDER 14 October 2012 20: 06 New
          +3
          Rumata! It's a shame for what?
          1. Rumata
            Rumata 14 October 2012 21: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: OSTAP BENDER
            Rumata! It's a shame for what?

            For the site. Many have disappeared over the past 3-4 months, but still there are enough interesting personalities who really understand many areas related to weapons and the army, whose comments are interesting to read. These interesting comments are drowning in a stream of meaningless flood from a bunch of useless trolls and re-reading hundreds of messages of continuous negative in order to find something interesting, more and more difficult ...
  • InkGrey
    InkGrey 14 October 2012 13: 04 New
    +9
    I don’t understand, why did you pounce on Pupyrchaty? The man touched on a number of technical issues regarding two rifles. No advertising here can be seen. And again, prospects were considered in the foreign market. You’re starting, sorry, to roll a barrel on a person.
    And the last paragraph of the article relates more to the foreign market. If not, then the author missed one point - there is inertia, not of Izhmash, but of a manual that knows about a bunch of weapons in warehouses, which was already mentioned here.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 14 October 2012 13: 53 New
    +1
    Normal machine. If the field proved to be good, generally excellent. And our AK-74 and others like them in fat and at state reserve warehouses. And then they still say PPS and PPSh lie .... Sights and body kit are needed, otherwise our soldiers as savages are already against the backdrop of foreigners.
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 14 October 2012 15: 47 New
      -5
      One more for spools is ready to sell
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 15 October 2012 12: 00 New
        -2
        To be honest, the number of minuses surprised - they did not try to think for themselves how all this rubbish will behave in the mud? If a fighter in the trenches will be forced to sit for at least a week without the possibility of hovering in the rear?
    2. Arkan
      Arkan 15 October 2012 12: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Zomanus
      Sights and body kit are needed, otherwise our soldiers as savages are already against the backdrop of foreigners

      Of course, we need it (you can’t argue with this), but by no means everyone, and not always.
  • ICT
    ICT 14 October 2012 15: 46 New
    +1
    but someone will tell you, maybe the extra handle on the fore-end is still superfluous. if not then at least in theory for horseradish it generally
    1. Owl
      Owl 14 October 2012 15: 57 New
      +3
      For the convenience of "work" in a confined space (buildings, forests, urban and rural buildings).
    2. Konrad
      Konrad 14 October 2012 21: 54 New
      0
      Quote: TIT

      but someone tell me

      You have to try it yourself. Do not like it - take it off, it's removable.
  • ded
    ded 14 October 2012 15: 50 New
    +2
    AK-12 come up with in Israel? Galil Ace review


    It would probably be more correct to call an article like this:

    The most successful modernization of the Hugo Schmeisser Machine STG 44 came up with in Israel? Overview of the machine Galil Ace
    1. Pimply
      14 October 2012 20: 00 New
      +4
      STG 44 what has to do with AK? wink
      1. ded
        ded 15 October 2012 11: 12 New
        0
        STG 44 what has to do with AK?


        Read and understand everything:

        http://topwar.ru/453-tajna-avtomata-kalashnikova-raskryta.html
        1. Pimply
          15 October 2012 15: 42 New
          +1
          Yeah. Just for fun, you should first look at the design
          1. ded
            ded 17 October 2012 17: 37 New
            0
            Yeah. Just for fun, you should first look at the design


            Better look at the designers.
  • Owl
    Owl 14 October 2012 15: 56 New
    +7
    The Kalashnikov assault rifle is a Kalashnikov assault rifle, and the Galil carbine is the Galil carbine, our problem is that in the West and the "other Enemies" minor innovations (devices for attaching "body kits", ergonomics improvements) are introduced very quickly and produced in sufficient quantity and quality.
    1. Pimply
      14 October 2012 20: 02 New
      +1
      In this case, it is also certain production technologies that made it possible to facilitate the machine, the manufacturer’s mobility, the ability to deliver goods and not present to the public a crookedly made sample
  • nic
    nic 14 October 2012 17: 29 New
    +2
    "Was the AK-12 invented in Israel?"
    "Who knows if Izhmash will be late with its version of the machine? Or maybe already late."
    No, no, this is never a sketch.

    "Izhmash will have to try hard, and maybe finally come up with something new."
    Well you understood, if "IZHMASH" does not surprise the author of the article, it can blame itself. wassat
  • InkGrey
    InkGrey 14 October 2012 17: 33 New
    +4
    STG.44 differs from AK more than Galil from AK - no need to exaggerate.
  • Rodriques
    Rodriques 14 October 2012 17: 47 New
    -7
    I read the article, what kind of nonsense? laughing Military Review is once again surprising.

  • passerby
    passerby 14 October 2012 18: 33 New
    +1
    and what is the scream about? about there that the plant does what almost the only customer buys from it? or want to say what Izhmash will do, he can calmly push abroad?
    who is ready to give money for the tank column "Dmitry Donskoy II" or according to the order at the enterprise for the fleet or aviation?
  • Shilovr
    Shilovr 14 October 2012 19: 52 New
    +1
    IZHMASH just needs to take it - think carefully and surpass everyone))
  • status quo
    status quo 14 October 2012 20: 22 New
    0
    Hello gentlemen, comrades and friends !!!
    Site Administrator Military Review Vadim Smirnov tried to stop the activities of active forum participants.
    Let’s name (or rather, we’ll determine who they are) of course Aleksey (spender) Omar (Ataturk), (Apollon) and (Camilla). What won the forum but nothing actually.
    No, that past enthusiasm. Spark, there is no srach that was. There isn’t that war that was on the forum and which was the locomotive of all discussions. If you were current beginners would come to the forum three months, four months ago you would be witnesses furious fights. impudent attacks and fierce battles. Disputes sometimes reached frenzy. It seemed that now indeed blood will shed. Here it was real, virtual life on a forum.
    Well now, hello Petya, goodbye Vasya, so-so, all the way, I don’t see the point, maybe .............................. etc. etc.
    It was a forum, even after fierce skirmishes, sometimes furious enemies let out mutual epithets of politeness to each other. Some words of the Ataturk addressed to the neutral “About the light of my eyes”, mutual appeals of Omarushka and David, what are they standing for? And where is David, where are the other people of Armenian nationality. Snickley and foolishly went home. And what are the Meta demotivators. I honestly sometimes studied at his (honestly, at first I even had no idea what it was) demotivators. The SCHOOL was good.
    Putting my hand on my heart, I admit that without Oleg 0705, I’m also bored, there’s no war to the bitter end. Oh, what was the war with ball bearings.
    What did the admin site Smirnov. "Simple and intelligible" ALL BASTA !!! I blocked it, oxygen to all, banning respected people on the site.
    It's boring. Sometimes I read it, just darkness. Not fun, not laughter, not even anger and enmity. And what was the RZHACHKA, you won’t believe ?!
    Lost, much lost Forum. Honestly, I don’t even know if the forum will return to its former greatness. Time works AGAINST !!! Every day is dear, Vadim, every day.
    Beat dear people !!!
  • Konrad
    Konrad 14 October 2012 22: 00 New
    +1
    Good article with great illustrations. The author is a big plus!
  • total commander
    total commander 14 October 2012 22: 09 New
    +1
    Judging by the photographs, their Jews have only a kit. smile
    Butt and that of the Yankees slammed.
  • Dmitry Desnyansky
    Dmitry Desnyansky 15 October 2012 00: 32 New
    +3
    I would choose AKM 7,62
  • schapchits
    schapchits 15 October 2012 00: 32 New
    +1
    AK is AK! It is recognized all over the world! He participated in all wars and conflicts of the second half of the twentieth century. Since its inception, it has already become a legend, a symbol of small arms. AK-12 is a completely reasonable development, Mikhail Kalashnikov himself acknowledged this. So it’s impossible to be late here, AK will always be out of any competition, the main thing is to bring 12 to mind.
  • older
    older 15 October 2012 07: 25 New
    +6
    Quote: schapchits
    AK is AK! It is recognized all over the world! He participated in all wars and conflicts of the second half of the twentieth century. Since its inception, it has already become a legend, a symbol of small arms. AK-12 is a completely reasonable development, Mikhail Kalashnikov himself acknowledged this. So it’s impossible to be late here, AK will always be out of any competition, the main thing is to bring 12 to mind.

    Volga 21y cool car was LET'S VOLGA-21 DO-AND NOTHING MORE !!!!!! URA
  • survivor
    survivor 15 October 2012 11: 31 New
    +4
    I constantly hear that a soldier can break a super duper weapon. I asked myself a question and answered it myself. Yes maybe. why? Yes, at least because the service in our army is very short. to teach a soldier professional proficiency in weapons entrusted to him, simply not enough time. the pros cherish their weapons and cherish, because, this is his working tool and more than once saved his life. for a conscript soldier, an assault rifle is more a burden than a tool. from this and such an attitude. I repeat, any weapon in the hands of a professional is deadly. even without a body kit. even outdated. Example: when he served in the Soviet army, we had a few trilinear carbines with us. one of the soldiers once asked the officer a question, they say, why do we have this junk lying around? on which, the commander staged demonstrative firing and hand-to-hand combat. I must say right away that the officer, warrant officer Levanovsky, unfortunately I do not remember the name, was sent to our unit to serve until retirement after a serious injury. he knew his job perfectly. not only that, he just scattered the whole squad in hand-to-hand combat, he struck all the messes before everyone else and even more clearly than anyone else. a detachment from machine guns))). only after, in the Lenin room, to the phrase of one of the soldiers that chemists need no such agility, he explained that everyone needs such agility. the soldier should be able to fight with what is in his hands ... .and slammed the opponent outfit out of turn).
    today are completely different times. for a year, it is simply impossible to learn a soldier. especially if he himself does not strive.
    I apologize for my flood off topic)))
  • Ruyk
    Ruyk 7 November 2015 18: 42 New
    0
    Galil ACE 31 is essentially an analogue of the not accepted AKMSU, cool! and where is our aksmu? Izhmazh in general in opera, and in technology and especially in quality
  • Maz
    Maz 8 March 2017 12: 39 New
    +2
    And I like the delay, and the fuse, and the lid, and the shaft, and the bolt on the left, and the sighting line is long, and has already gone into the series - if it were bad, they would not have been taken on different continents.