Will the old people go into battle again?

291

What is happening today within the framework of the NWO in Ukraine makes us think about many things. In the near future we will discuss logistical issues that will give many readers answers to their questions "why everything is going the way it is." And the topic of today's conversation is a more distant time, let's say, a distant "tomorrow", which may turn out to be somewhat uncomfortable.

Being only one and a half kilometers from the Baltimore airfield, I can, as an eyewitness (more precisely, hearsay) assess the intensity of Su-34 flights. And, in order not to cross certain boundaries, I will say that the intensity is ... intense. The bombers are doing their job. And for example, I will take these aircraft.




If you take a map, then the places that are announced in the reports are from 500 to 700 km. That is, plus or minus a thousand and a half kilometers per flight. A little. But if there are two departures? It's three thousand. Well, the resource is considered in hours, but we will not find fault.

In any case, the bombers are working in full. They consume motor resources, sometimes get damaged, and sometimes fail. Yes, losses in war are commonplace.

To date, the Ukrainian side has reported the destruction of 8 Su-34 aircraft. I analyzed everything that was dumped on the Internet in the form of a victory, and I will say that the death of three Su-34s is a huge question for me personally. More precisely, like this: I accept and believe that the Armed Forces of Ukraine shot down 4 Su-34 aircraft, the destruction of 1 aircraft causes distrust and the death of 3 aircraft is more than doubtful.

No, anything can happen, of course, but there are very big doubts in the reports of that side in this regard. Nevertheless, a certain number of aircraft are irretrievably lost at the moment, and some will fail due to the exhaustion of their resource. How did it happen with planes in Syria, some of which were easier to abandon there than to bring back and restore. Especially when there is almost nothing to restore.

And all this, both lost, and damaged, and aircraft that have used up their resources - all this must be compensated. And this is the main question of this material: will we be able to, or will “holes” appear in the near future that will plug the same Su-24M?

In order to understand what the essence of the problem is, let's look at the numbers of aircraft production. In general, an airplane is a very complex organism in our time, therefore it is simply unrealistic to release them, as during the Second World War. And the loss of everyone is a significant blow to the budget. The cost of one Su-34 under the 2012 contract was 1 rubles. Now, most likely, after all our perturbations, more expensive.

Serial production of the Su-34 began in April 2005. Serial conditionally, several machines (7) of the installation series were produced.

In 2008, a five-year contract was signed for the supply of 32 aircraft to the Russian Aerospace Forces. That is, on average, the Novosibirsk Aircraft Plant named after V.P. Chkalova produced 6,4 aircraft per year. A little, you will agree, but there was no particular hurry.

In 2012, the Russian Ministry of Defense signed another contract for the purchase of 92 vehicles. This order was completed in 2020. The speed of aircraft construction has increased significantly and amounted to 11,5 aircraft per year, that is, almost 1 aircraft per month.

After completing the order, in June 2020, another contract was signed, already for the supply of the Su-34M. In three years, it is planned to build and transfer 24 more aircraft to the Aerospace Forces. That is, an average of 8 aircraft per year.

In general, it’s not fast, but there’s no particular desire to criticize here, as we can do it quickly and “high-quality”, there’s no need to tell.

Another question is that in the conditions of hostilities a situation may turn out in which it will not be possible to compensate for the “natural” loss.

Let's take it this way: 4 aircraft were lost as part of the NWO. 2 aircraft lost in January 2019 in the Sea of ​​Japan. 1 aircraft was lost in October 2020 in the Far East as a result of a technical malfunction.

A total of 7 aircraft. Considering that the end-edge of the NMD in Ukraine is not visible, it is worth considering possible losses there due to the fact that the Western allies of Ukraine, at least in small quantities, are transmitting modern air defense systems.

Ukraine is not Syria. In Syria, the Su-34s worked quite calmly and without losses. Simply because the terrorists had nothing more complicated than the Stinger at their disposal. Therefore, the "Ducklings" calmly cut the sky at heights inaccessible to MANPADS and calmly did their job.


Ukraine is a completely different matter. The Armed Forces of Ukraine have air defense, there are trained radar and air defense operators, in general - you can “destroy” as much as you like Aviation and air defense of Ukraine in the reports, but in fact Russia does not have a total advantage in the air. The fact that the Ukrainian aviation suffered heavy losses does not make the Aerospace Forces the masters of the airspace, since the Armed Forces of Ukraine have at their disposal enough means capable of shooting down Russian aircraft. What the Ukrainians get from time to time.

Yes, it is worth noting here that in the conditions of the modern information war you cannot believe everything, such as, for example, the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine were able to shoot down the Su-35 near Izyum. It is foolish to believe in such a feat and I will overcome it, since there is too much. Plus, for some reason, unlike other reports, data on the aircraft do not appear in the joyful reports, and in general, "it suffered too much on contact with the ground." Well, yes, we have, as it were, a global practice, the planes hit the ground to the ground.


But this, I repeat, does not in the least detract from the capabilities of the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in terms of destroying aircraft of all classes. And you can not guess that the Ukrainian military will turn inside out in order to chalk up a Russian plane or helicopter.

And since, in accordance with the complete silence of the Russian Ministry of Defense, it is impossible to make even rough forecasts regarding the timing of the end of the SVO, it is worth adding a certain number of aircraft to the list of losses. Just in case.

We will assume that the Chkalov Novosibirsk Aircraft Plant will have to compensate for the loss of 10 aircraft as part of the last order. We already have 7, 3 in three years is quite a normal figure. Not a disaster, because the fighting.

In total, 24 of the 10 ordered aircraft are no longer available. They have already left the line and new machines will fill the empty holes in it.

There are 14 planes left. That's not a lot. It and 24 - just a regiment consisting of two squadrons, but 14 - you know.

What regiments do we have today actively (you know what I mean, about the NWO) operate the Su-34?

47th bap (Voronezh) - 24 aircraft;
277th bap (Khurba) - 24 aircraft, used sporadically;
559th bap (Morozovsk) - 32 aircraft.

God himself ordered the Voronezh and Rostov to fly to Ukraine, the Khabarovsk residents were transferred to reinforcement. I don’t know how the Rostov and Far Eastern aircraft look in terms of resource, but the 47th bap fought on these Su-34s back in Syria.


In total, we have 80 aircraft, which, judging by the sound effects, plow 24/7 without stopping. How many of these aircraft will need major repairs after such operation, I can’t say. It is clear that a certain part will definitely have to be deeply repaired.

But I will undertake to say a few words about the capabilities of the NAZ named after Chkalov. Take the figures for the production of aircraft by year.

Let's leave behind the first pre-production aircraft, which were produced from 1990 to 2005, there were 9 of them, moreover, one or two for static tests.

2007-2009 - 7 trial series cars. In general, the aircraft was produced and passed the state test program at the same time. In general, it turned out to be interesting with the Su-34, before being put into service, the first order for 32 vehicles was given. So by the time the Su-34 was officially put into service, and it happened in 2014, production was not only going on, the first batch had already been released and production of the second had begun.

2010 - 4 pieces;
2011 - 6 pieces;
2012 - 10 pieces;
2013 - 14 pcs. Here the first contract for 32 aircraft ended and the second contract for 92 began. The last 2 aircraft are from the new contract.

2014 - 18 pieces;
2015 - 18 pieces;
2016 - 16 pieces;
2017 - 14 pieces;
2018 - 14 pieces;
2019 - 10 pcs.

And now we have a contract for 2020, under which 2021 aircraft were delivered in 4, and the same number in May 2022. And in total, from 2021 to 2023, NAZ should build, I remind you, 24 aircraft.

That is, the implementation of the 2020 contract is clearly behind schedule. 8 aircraft - this is an obvious backlog, but it is obvious that NAZ is busy with no less important things, as I understand it, overhauls of combat aircraft.

In fact, I do not detract from the work of the Novosibirsk aircraft manufacturers, but I understand that everything is rather complicated.


Plus there are logistical issues. The seething of brains was fresh when T-62s suddenly went to the southern sector of the NVO. Very many then ... ambiguously perceived this news. But in fact, everything is simple: logistics.

Southern airports have been closed since February. The railway is literally suffocating, because the Russians, broken off with foreign holidays, rushed to their south. And when it became clear that Tanks it will not be possible to quickly transfer from storage bases in the same Sverdlovsk or Omsk region, they used what was closer. Bases of the Southern Military District. Still, a few hundred kilometers against more than two thousand is serious.

The same thing can happen with airplanes. It is clear that if the plane is not staggered to the final, then at the very least it will fly to Novosibirsk, although the path is not short. Worse, if everything, flew off and it is necessary either to carry the plane to the overhaul, or to overhaul the aircraft.

By the way, no one canceled the logistical charades with engines either. AL-31F, which are on the Su-34, they are also half assembled. The hot part is assembled in Moscow, at Salyut Gas Turbine Engineering Research and Production Center JSC on Sokolina Gora, and then everyone is taken to Ufa, where everything is put together within the walls of the Ufa Engine-Building Production Association and it turns out AL-31F or something else.

From Moscow to Ufa almost 1400 km... And from Ufa to Novosibirsk another 2000 kilometers...

We have a big country, big problems with logistics, and nothing can be done about it.

But back to where it all began. With intensive aircraft operation. It cannot but affect the state of the entire fleet of 80 Su-34s involved in the NWO. Planes fly, planes fight, planes use up resources. This is fine. I would say even more: it should be so. They don’t transfer vacationers to warm beaches ...

But the plane needs repair, needs maintenance, needs replacement. And there are certain fears that the Novosibirsk plant simply will not be able to cope with such a volume of work in the current situation. If we return to the graphs, at the peak, NAZ produced 1,5 aircraft per month. This is when the Su-34s were just going to the troops, there was no need to make repairs. VKS did not participate in hostilities and so on.

But now, for some reason, everything looks much sadder. 4 aircraft in 2021 and 4 in half of 2022 - this, as said before, is a concern.

And for some reason there are fears that everything will not be very beautiful. The deadlines will again be disrupted, and the "ducklings" will be laid up in anticipation of repairs.

It is clear that the Su-24M will come to the rescue. We have plenty of them, all the pilots who fly the Su-34 today started on the Su-24.


But is it good? Is it possible to transfer from T-72B3 to T-62? Can. After the Su-34, can I get into the Su-24? Can. And you can also perform combat missions. The question is how successful and how comfortable. It's like transferring from a Toyota Camry to a Zhiguli VAZ-2106. You can go, but there are nuances.

When there is something to get from the armory pantry, this, of course, is good. The militiamen of Donbass fought monuments, and fought successfully. Can such a substitution be called successful? No.

What I have outlined in this article is not a cry that everything is lost, as some may now think. This is a designation of a problem that could have a serious impact on the situation with the Su-34. Specifically with the Su-34. As with other planes and helicopters, I can’t presume to say, this must be looked at separately for each model.


And it turns out that when the SVO ends, which I have absolutely no doubt, as well as its outcome, we may face a very difficult situation: most of our modern bombers will be disabled and wait for them to be repaired specialists.

Not the best deal - to withdraw half of the available Su-34s. But it can easily happen, and, really, one can not look for the guilty here. They are not here. The Novosibirsk Aircraft Plant is not a very large enterprise, which, obviously, is not designed for such intensive work.

Of course, it might not be the case. And that would be just fine. And it’s good, of course, that we still have Su-24s, which, if anything, will be replaced, covered, and worked out.


But in general, I would like things to happen a little differently.
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  1. -7
    19 July 2022 04: 53
    Is it necessary to prove that the USSR and today's Russia are different countries?
    And that without the revival of a large country from Brest and Lvov to Vladivostok, we cannot survive?
    1. +62
      19 July 2022 05: 09
      And as usual, in addition to slogans, zero. Will you and others like you ever realize that now is a different time? Which country? What revival? The USSR is another country, of course, and where is it? She lost the challenges. All that is happening now is the consequences of precisely those mistakes. Yes. The Union was a powerful state. AND? Russia is fighting. Most of the boys were not born in the Union. They decide what the country will be. Not to you and not to me. They fight for it.
      1. +50
        19 July 2022 05: 28
        Most of the boys were not born in the Union. They decide what the country will be.
        And when the Union collapsed, who decided? Soldier boys? Or someone else?
        1. 0
          19 July 2022 05: 37
          Not them. But this is the past. The union is no more. But there is a generation that fights for its world. And they choose what it will be.
          1. +32
            19 July 2022 06: 59
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Not them. But this is the past. The union is no more.

            Wow ... It remains only to ask:

            What an interesting situation. An apartment building collapsed. Residents were placed in temporary housing (gyms, cultural centers, etc.). How will they want to see their new home - a family hostel or an apartment building with an improved modern layout?
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Russia is fighting. Most of the boys were not born in the Union. They decide what the country will be. Not to you and not to me. They fight for it.

            only if? And do you have any idea what those who were not born in the USSR are fighting for?
            I suppose that not for the yachts of Abramovich and Usmanov or Vekselberg's apartments ... Not even for the star of the Hero of Labor, Mr. Rotenberg. And this is evidenced by those banners that rise above the buildings of administrative buildings and are attached to the armor of tanks.
            1. -12
              19 July 2022 08: 17
              And do you have any idea what those who were not born in the USSR are fighting for?
              I suppose that not for the yachts of Abramovich and Usmanov or Vekselberg's apartments ... Not even for the star of the Hero of Labor, Mr. Rotenberg.

              Quite the contrary, he meant it. Opened our eyes. New generation, different values. How would you like to say. Abramovich, Usmanov, Vekselberg in the same formation.
              1. -4
                19 July 2022 12: 32
                Do you want to teach them why they should fight? Or do you let them choose?
                1. +20
                  19 July 2022 16: 14
                  Dmitry!
                  You can't discuss a serious issue in 2 words.
                  In the Donbass, the people rose up for the people's republics. How many leaders died in 8 years you know better than me.
                  Decisive success is possible when both the top and the bottom equally see the goals and do what is needed in their place.
                  As for aviation, the question is correctly posed.
                  All peacetime plans require adjustments.
                  It is necessary to expand the production of equipment and train specialists. Yesterday.
                  Saving on the army is now becoming treason.
                  Bad leadership too. hi
                  1. +30
                    19 July 2022 16: 47
                    Why is the MiG-24 aircraft in all the photos instead of the Su-31M? Is this a joke along with the article?
                    1. -1
                      20 July 2022 07: 22
                      it’s normal, he criticizes the work of others, but he himself hacks, “a log in the eye” - to start up an article and then the sun can not rise ...
                    2. -1
                      14 September 2022 12: 56
                      The SU 24M will still fight, it’s not a question, it can be used quite successfully against the VSH, well, only when they shoot down the last SU and MIG transferred by the Junta Armed Forces
                  2. +6
                    19 July 2022 17: 42
                    The author has an error:

                    After completing the order, in June 2020, another contract was signed, already for the supply of the Su-34M.

                    A contract was signed for the supply of simple Su-34s with modifications:
                    a new contract for the supply of the Russian Aerospace Forces with several dozen Su-34s, the combat capabilities of which will be expanded following the completion of the Sych R&D.

                    https://dfnc.ru/c106-technika/minoborony-podpisalo-kontrakt-na-stroitelstvo-okolo-20-su-34/
                  3. -3
                    19 July 2022 17: 47
                    And I don't want to discuss. I clearly understand the fact that we are already in the past. The guys hit the moment which is the time of opportunity. They are chewing out their future. And this is good.
                    1. +5
                      20 July 2022 13: 51
                      Trite, but "There is no future without the past!"
                      1. 0
                        21 July 2022 07: 38
                        And there is no talk that it is necessary to forget it. You can and should take the good from there. Simply there is a difference to impose and choose.
                    2. +3
                      23 July 2022 04: 32
                      Guys don't have any options. There is an opportunity to die, for the salary and the hut that the worker in the Union received, in civilian life and truncated. Opportunities for those who steal and fatten at the expense of the labor of others. Capitalism however.
              2. +14
                20 July 2022 08: 33
                "Abramovich, Usmanov, Vekselberg in the same ranks."
                in the same ranks, who would argue. but not with us
            2. -7
              19 July 2022 12: 31
              But when you calm down then ... They fight for their own. Not yours and not mine. For mine.
              1. +11
                20 July 2022 08: 39
                "They fight for their own. Not yours and not mine. For theirs."
                for yours? these soldiers in civilian life have their own, this is a mortgage and a credit car. what are they fighting for?
                1. -6
                  21 July 2022 07: 44
                  Yes, even so. Do you want to give them other goals and motivation?)
            3. +22
              19 July 2022 12: 48
              For the elimination of the mentally ill, yelling: "Moskals on the knives." Very motivating, by the way, no worse than "for Lenin, for Stalin."
            4. 0
              13 August 2022 07: 15
              I support, the guys do not just fight with such flags.
            5. 0
              15 September 2022 20: 35
              I do not want to join that Union, the one that was. After the 4th grade, I was taken by the hand to the apiary to work, and every year during the summer holidays I worked at the state farm. Apart from housekeeping.
              And then, when I was in Moscow on a ticket, we lived in the Molodyozhnaya Hotel, I saw people with currency, but not foreigners. I learned that there are shops for "whites" and for people like me. That there is no equality and I am not such a valuable frame for society.
              1. 0
                13 October 2022 09: 01
                But "that" union will not exist, it is impossible, I tell you as a person at the crossroads of generations, who is no longer yesterday, but perhaps not yet tomorrow. Thinking is different, partially poisoned, yes, but I hope a fair society will be built, at least as comrade wanted to see it. Stalin, when the USSR the first country in the world to give workers social guarantees, most of which were retained by Russia, some of which were retained the whole world. They say that our generation has no memory and we don't remember the lessons of history. This is not so, many people know, many are studying, those who are shouting “no war” now will study the past tomorrow, so that after tomorrow they will shout “Glory to Russia!” in a many-voiced chorus. Or maybe they will name an association of countries that is growing right now in some other way, but it will be better, it will definitely be. I believe in it, the guys believe in it, everyone is making their efforts so that it will come tomorrow.
        2. +10
          19 July 2022 06: 26
          Exactly. They fought in Chechnya, in the Caucasus, and what did these guys decide?
        3. +4
          19 July 2022 08: 06
          This someone else is now in charge of the country and considers the collapse of the USSR to be the greatest tragedy.
          1. +9
            19 July 2022 10: 21
            Quote: Sergey Konovalov_2
            and considers the collapse of the USSR the greatest tragedy.

            Only now his words do not fight in terms of semantic load with his other statements about the USSR.
            1. Kim
              -12
              20 July 2022 04: 06
              why don't they fight?
              breakup is really a tragedy
              freedom is really better than totalitarianism
              rockets - made unique, into consumer goods - could not
              ------------------
              you need to approach the question dialectically, comrade :)
          2. +1
            20 July 2022 07: 24
            it's sarcasm?
      2. +14
        19 July 2022 15: 39
        They decide what the country will be. Not to you and not to me. They fight for it.
        And for them and for you and for me have already decided. Don't worry, they won't even ask us how to kill us. They won't even notice when they do it. CBO is only for the sake of capital profits. Moreover, it became possible precisely because of the fear of losing profits. Capitalists on all sides are to blame. And the guys shed their blood for this. Even the Russian guys in the Armed Forces of Ukraine do the same. And capital applauds and profits.
        1. -11
          19 July 2022 17: 51
          Do you know who they despise the most? People from the mainland with similar slogans. Communists, nationalists, socialists. And others . They come and drill their brains.
          1. +21
            19 July 2022 18: 10
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Do you know who they despise the most? People from the mainland with similar slogans. Communists, nationalists, socialists. And others . They come and drill their brains.

            Yes, there are no agitators THERE, they do not come there. However, it is good that they do not come. There are enough numbered "newsletters", according to which we destroyed the Armed Forces of Ukraine at least twice as of the beginning of June. And they, nits, still do not end and do not give up.
            Here this lie is not so noticeable, but there, except for irritation and grins, it does not cause other emotions.
            1. -5
              21 July 2022 07: 39
              Yeah. They are dark there.
              1. +5
                21 July 2022 10: 37
                Where? How do they get there and in what capacity?
                Once again - THERE no one holds a rally and does not hold political meetings. There is no time, no desire, no physical strength for this. In addition, any "brain-drilling", with the exception of immediate and direct supervisors, are instantly sent to ..., to ... and to ... mother.
                No need to fantasize about politics. People there are busy with much more mundane things. It is not from home to knock on the keys, drinking coffee with a bun. So you can dream about politics yourself and listen to others.
                1. -4
                  21 July 2022 11: 18
                  You're just off topic. They are coming. They rally. They run people.
                  1. +4
                    21 July 2022 11: 36
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    You are just not in the subject.

                    )))
                    And you, judging by the words, are deeply in the subject? Then, please, enlighten me on a number of issues.
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    Are coming

                    On what? How do they get into the PVD units?
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    rally

                    Where are rallies and meetings held? How does the command of subunits and groupings react to this?
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    They run people.

                    Do I understand correctly that there agitators with impunity infuriate armed, motivated to fight for their future, healthy and by no means cowardly men?
                    Well, well.
          2. -1
            20 July 2022 09: 32
            Do you know who they despise the most? People from the mainland with similar slogans. Communists, nationalists, socialists. And others . They come and drill their brains.
            I disagree, most of all worthy of contempt are those who do not want to understand the reasons for what is happening "I'm not interested in politics." Let, do not be interested, it will be easier for politicians to send you to death for the sake of capital profits. It is easier for me to live, understanding. If you want to fight for the liberation of the yachts of the oligarchs - your choice. Our guys who are fighting, contractors, they also made their choice. And I respect him, because. they know what they are fighting for.
            1. -5
              21 July 2022 07: 41
              Here. That's what I'm talking about. What yachts? What oligarchs?
        2. +1
          19 July 2022 18: 58
          I don’t know what year you were born, most likely, you didn’t see the USSR with your own eyes? I can tell you that the Soviet party nomenklatura destroyed the Union. Communists at big and responsible posts in that state. The Komsomol members actively helped them, they also received "buns", that is, capital. Are you one of those who did not have time to divide? Are you calling Russia "to the ax" again? You have nothing behind your soul: there is no project for a bright future society, there is no legislative basis, there is no project for the economic structure of this state, etc. You didn’t even work on the mistakes, don’t you know the reasons why the USSR collapsed? You, along with Zyu, refer to China, not realizing that this is a different society, at a different stage of development. Russia, as part of the USSR, has long passed this stage. Watch the film of the 60s of the last century "Russian Miracle", maybe you will understand something.
        3. -1
          20 July 2022 00: 32
          Who twisted your brains so much, how did you go through them with a cutter?
        4. +2
          20 July 2022 16: 19
          This is the point.
      3. +24
        19 July 2022 16: 51
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Most of the boys were not born in the Union. They decide what the country will be. Not to you and not to me. They fight for it.

        Specifically, this phrase is a slogan before which all the slogans of R. Skomorokhov's article fade. And the slogan, it should be said, is extremely stupid and vile. They fight there for themselves and for their comrades, for peaceful poor fellows and for some illusory prospect. And the future, it's too uncertain there. By the way, the majority of those who are "there" have no understanding at all about the goals, timing and current successes and failures of the "special work" being carried out. There is no criterion of victory and defeat as such. Therefore the slogan
        Quote: carstorm 11
        They decide what the country will be. Not to you and not to me. They fight for it.

        just pointless and even mean.
        1. -11
          19 July 2022 17: 52
          What are you?) Well, apparently you can offer them a smarter agenda)
      4. +16
        19 July 2022 19: 22
        carstorm. Are you sure that the boys are fighting for the country, and not for money? The USSR did not lose the challenges, there were none. Those who considered themselves communists decided to open up and rob without fear that the people would condemn them. There has been a massive betrayal of those who took the oath. But Stalin warned about this. He agitated the people learning to govern the country. But imaginary communists drugged everyone. Exactly the same hung over the United States, but they got alarmed there in time. And the most interesting thing is that a lot of the people were left without the opportunity to earn a living, having destroyed factories and factories. The current leaders are the enemies of the people. They changed socialism, which was bad for thieves, replacing it with feudalism that was good for them. Where feudalism, as they know from history, is a war in order to seize territories for penetration into capitalism. Need more slaves. The vertical of power is a pyramid.
      5. +10
        19 July 2022 22: 30
        Our soldiers don’t decide anything, the majors and their dads decide, who are cut off from the army and sit in offices, millionaires shift, count and count everyone except themselves, a fool and, traders have long sold and bought everyone, and someone is dying for them, take an example from the Jews, if you didn’t serve, then you’re nobody, but if you served as the main one, it’s the opposite with us, and you say that the soldiers decide something, it’s ridiculous ...
    2. Kim
      +2
      19 July 2022 05: 34
      do you really want to live in the same country with Bandera?
      and Vladik did not leave Russia anywhere
      1. +19
        19 July 2022 06: 48
        Quote from kim
        do you really want to live in the same country with Bandera?

        Bandera's holy cause to send either to Bandera, or to the Great Stalinist Constructions, which Khrushch covered, and amnestied the then Bandera, grandfathers and great-grandfathers of the current Bandera. So to speak, pick up where Stalin dropped. Moreover, Stalin cannot be blamed for this, since we are all mortal, and he was in office literally until the last moment in his mind. And yes, if necessary, then restore the Gulag, and let the liberals from this one reduction of the "Gulag" have incontinence with impotence, or even better, a stroke with a heart attack.
        1. Kim
          -9
          19 July 2022 08: 12
          clear
          in the meantime, the Banderaites have not been sent - peaceful teachers and doctors will die ... Despite the fact that support among the Westerners will be much more than then
          ---------------
          in general, I am "for" oriental kresses
          in the style of "your crocodiles, you save"
          1. +6
            19 July 2022 18: 46
            The States have plan B - to make Ukraine from Poland with the tribaltics.
            I suppose they are very sorry that they did not glue the Poles with the Sumerians in advance. But they could. They are trying now, but we have the initiative.
            The fewer resources they have, human and otherwise, the more
            then it will be easier. Think about it. They are seriously fighting.
            1. Kim
              -4
              20 July 2022 04: 14
              the United States has a plan A - elections in the fall
              and nothing needs to be done from Poland, she is like that in life
              and when choosing "benders against Russians" or "Poles against cattle" I choose Poles
      2. +10
        19 July 2022 14: 08
        Quote from kim
        do you really want to live in the same country with Bandera?

        At one time there was a similar question about Chechnya, Dagestan.
        Bandera - it is superficial and artificially protruding. If you press it down for ten years, it will disappear to the level of background radiation. Only this topic cannot be amnestied, as Khrushchev did, releasing all the ardent from prisons - supposedly a thaw.
        1. Kim
          -2
          20 July 2022 04: 16
          mmm ...
          looks - yes
          actually no
          Caucasians can serve a strong government, it's even more honorable
          Ukrainianism is completely different, it is anti-Russian
        2. +2
          20 July 2022 10: 25
          Quote: Genry
          Bandera - it is superficial and artificially protruding. If you press it down for ten years, it will disappear to the level of background radiation.

          And then it will come to life again - as in the same Ukraine in the late 80s. It would seem that 40 years of Soviet upbringing (for the Zapadenschina) should have paid off - but no, they loosened the reins a little, and immediately climbed again.

          Moreover, it was precisely the "pressors" who turned out to be at the head - those who just yesterday were crucifying from the stands about the advanced teachings of Lenin and proletarian internationalism.
          1. 0
            20 July 2022 22: 11
            Moreover, it was precisely the "pressors" who turned out to be at the head - those who just yesterday were crucifying from the stands about the advanced teachings of Lenin and proletarian internationalism.
            Well, the same thing happened to us - "It's impossible to live like this", "Russia that we lost" - this is all the "creative intelligentsia" worked. And professional Marxist-Leninists led the destruction of the country. Only recently dead Burbulis is worth something.
        3. -4
          20 July 2022 18: 39
          Quote: Genry
          Bandera - it is superficial and artificially protruding. If you press it down for ten years, it will disappear to the level of background radiation

          The trouble is that he was crushed for 12 years. But because of the universal support of the local population, they could not crush him.
          The best army in the world - the Wehrmacht - was crushed in 4 years. But the Bandera people could not ....
          And I had to declare an amnesty - not because the thaw / Khrushch is good, but because they could not win .....
    3. -5
      19 July 2022 05: 37
      Roman, it remains to be hoped that the state defense order will be adjusted in the direction of increasing purchases, primarily of military aviation and the fleet. But, these are just our dreams!
      1. +4
        19 July 2022 06: 59
        The state defense order is good, only in recent years it has not been fulfilled even by half. Something is wrong with our economy
        1. +2
          19 July 2022 10: 44
          We have a UVZ branch. He has been fulfilling the state defense order for many years now, in the month of October-November.
        2. +8
          19 July 2022 14: 17
          Quote: 28st region
          The state defense order is good, only in recent years it has not been fulfilled even by half.

          What positions specifically?
          Quote: 28st region
          Something is wrong with our economy

          Don't pretend you don't know why.

          External causes - sanctions and economic dirty tricks of the West - this is not worth discussing, since they do not depend on Russia.

          Domestic-liberal financial system, when all investments go through offshore companies - this is where we need to discuss and rebuild a lot. The fact that the Central Bank needs to be transformed, through nationalization, into the State Bank of Russia is the most key issue.
          1. +2
            21 July 2022 04: 49
            Quote: Genry
            What positions specifically?

            By plane. 12 were planned to be built, see Shoigu's report.
            Quote: Genry
            External causes - sanctions and economic dirty tricks of the West - this is not worth discussing, since they do not depend on Russia.

            Those. you confirm that our economy is completely dependent on external supplies.
            Quote: Genry
            Domestic - liberalistic financial system, when all investments go through offshore - this is where we need to discuss and rebuild a lot.

            And it's been that way since 2000. Don't you find it strange?
          2. +4
            21 July 2022 06: 18
            Supplement 12 Il-76, only 2 were built. I think you don’t need to tell about the Su-57, you know, if according to the defense order, at least their regiment should already be, but only 4 were built. And that is in question. For since January of this year, at first, some media reported about 2 Su-57s put into service and immediately deleted this message.
            In the messages, let's say so, the unreliability is often visible. They report on the adoption of the next REGIMENTAL set of S-400s. The regimental set at a minimum is KP + 6 srdn, but in fact they put only one srdn, which replenished one of the existing regiments. Of which there is not a single full composition, all have a maximum of 3 stars.
            Something like that.
            And look at what they are fighting. Armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, tanks are all old, some of them have been modernized to the maximum, mainly tanks. Homemade anti-cumulative protection. almost like during the Second World War, the guys boil armor nets for protection.
            Without any fingers, tell me where I'm wrong?
            1. +1
              27 July 2022 07: 20
              10 billion rubles to transfer free of charge to the Republic of Belarus for equipping schools. And there is no money
              1. +1
                1 August 2022 06: 02
                Yesterday, RBC showed a story - there are not enough schools in Krasnodar and once again another administrator gave out to the mountain. no one is forcing you to have a baby. Issued by the Deputy Governor.
      2. +27
        19 July 2022 07: 02
        Quote: Vysotsky
        Where is the money?
        And even if there is money, where is the excess production capacity? The existing ones are already loaded at 100%, unless, of course, Roman looked through the unused reserves. Create? So it was only in that war that they could put machines on a foundation in the open air and start production, and already build walls and a roof around existing workshops. Because then there were really leading cadres. Beria, Bulganin, Vannikov, Saltsman, Ustinov... This list goes on and on. Compare with the current "effective managers".
        1. +12
          19 July 2022 13: 32
          I wonder where we will get the machines so that we can put them on the foundation and build walls with roofs around this splendor? Where will we get qualified personnel? And there is no need to compare the Second World War and the current situation. Do you propose to resume the production of IL-2 and T-34? The level of sophistication of production between THEN and TODAY is beyond comparison. Before, you had to think. And now it's too late...
          1. +3
            19 July 2022 18: 39
            Quote: Sergey028
            You propose to resume the production of IL-2

            I suggest, and I'm not alone. A simple, cheap, slow, screw attack aircraft, based almost on a potato field just outside the reach of enemy artillery - this is what many people are considering, and the Brazilians are already doing it in series.
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano
            Of course, this should not be a dumb copy of the IL-2, but a rethinking of the project at the modern level, but it will come out very similar, because the idea of ​​​​an aircraft for direct support of ground forces on the battlefield has not changed much since then, and the functionality determines the design.
            Quote: Sergey028
            And there is no need to compare the Second World War and the current situation.
            History repeats itself. Oh yes, you are a victim of the Unified State Examination, and you have not studied Marxist-Leninist philosophy. And I graduated from the institute back in the USSR, and I could not study any other philosophy, except Marxist-Leninist, in principle, but I had to pass this particular one. And although much in that philosophy was far-fetched and diluted with large doses of boltology, the idea of ​​historical mathematics that history develops in a spiral and repeats at a new level what has long been passed is irrefutable, since it was confirmed more than once or twice.
            1. 0
              20 July 2022 10: 35
              Quote: Nagan
              I suggest, and I'm not alone. A simple, cheap, slow, screw attack aircraft, based almost on a potato field just outside the reach of enemy artillery - this is what many people are considering, and the Brazilians are already doing it in series.

              Yeah - like anti-partisan.
              And now let's imagine that the "partisans" are massively armed with MANPADS, ATGMs, as well as KPVT and 2A42. And what do we get? That's right - you can immediately forget about the classic BSHU with NARs and guns, you have to hang URO, KOEP and other gadgets. And simple and cheap attack aircraft degenerates into an aircraft analogue of the Ka-52 or Mi-8MNP-2.
              Or he has to work as NARs from a nose-up - in the style of "whom God sends to."
              Quote: Nagan
              Of course, this should not be a dumb copy of the IL-2, but a rethinking of the project at the modern level, but it will come out very similar, because the idea of ​​​​an aircraft for direct support of ground forces on the battlefield has not changed much since then, and the functionality determines the design.

              The idea of ​​​​an aircraft for direct support of ground forces on the battlefield has not changed only if the opponents are someone of the WWII level. In all other cases, the close support aircraft will live until the first meeting with the ZSU or MANPADS. And then the BMP-2.
            2. +3
              20 July 2022 10: 47
              By the way, today even partisans are becoming so dangerous in terms of air defense that the same Yankee "gunships" mutate into "flying missile batteries", the main weapon of which is becoming SD, and the guns are moving into the category of "finish off the survivors."
        2. +5
          19 July 2022 15: 41
          It is rather primitive to talk about loading and production. Even in simpler productions, there are downtimes due to a lack of components. And if there are not enough modern radars? automatic guidance systems, which are not easy to produce? electronic warfare systems? etc. etc. Our complex modern aircraft are built literally piece by piece. Aircraft without weapons and protection will still be made. And they will fly. But, what's the point.
        3. -2
          20 July 2022 18: 55
          Quote: Nagan
          So it was only in that war that they could put machines on a foundation in the open air and start production, and already build walls and a roof around existing workshops. Because then there were really leading cadres. Beria, Bulganin, Vannikov, Saltsman, Ustinov... This list goes on and on. Compare with current "effective managers"

          I deeply doubt that those then could cope with at least something - in CURRENTconditions.
          Just because at that time the worker could not tax Stalin, the party and the government for his mother, could not turn around and leave the factory, could not demand a salary 2 times more - but he worked practically for rations, he could not help but go with the factory to evacuation ...
          Today, Moscow builders in Mariupol work for 100 salaries - then they would work on pure enthusiasm for a work card. For food in fact ..
          Therefore, it is impossible to compare the then country and the current one - the conditions are too different, too ...
          1. +4
            20 July 2022 19: 42
            Quote: your1970
            then the worker could not impose on the mother of Stalin, the party and power

            My mother told me from the words of her father, respectively my grandfather, how Isaak Moiseevich Zaltsman talked with the director of the plant where my grandfather worked at that time as the chief mechanic. From the Nagant to the ceiling, and the still smoking barrel under the director's nose: "understood what it smells like?" This was the conversation of the People's Commissar of the Tankoprom regarding the untimely shipment of components for tanks. And after some time, the director was removed and sent to a penal battalion, not for disrupting supplies, but for the stupid use of products intended for the working canteen, "for other purposes." This director never returned to the plant. Grandfather was acting director for some time and communicated directly with Zaltsman several times, though he personally did not receive Nagant in the teeth. Maybe because the plan was carried out, and even ahead of schedule.
            It’s a pity, I was a snotty boy when my grandfather died, and I didn’t understand what questions grandfather should have asked.
            If I'm not mistaken, there are still a lot of Nagans left in storage in the Russian Federation.
            1. +1
              20 July 2022 22: 57
              Quote: Nagan
              From the Nagant to the ceiling, and the still smoking barrel under the director's nose: "understood what it smells like?"

              so what am I talking about?
              it's easy to be an effective boss - when you can swing the Nagant ...
              But even this resource they managed to squander - when, for example, by the end of the war, the level of rejection of tank armor was reduced to 52% (there was an article on VO) .....
              The armor sheet is normal - the marriage sheet ...
              And I won't be surprised that for PLAN - they made tanks out of marriage ..
              Well, they drove 45mm armor-piercing before the war - when 90% of the shells with a tail turned out to be a marriage.
              What's there....
      3. +6
        19 July 2022 10: 08
        Suppose the money has been allocated. And who will turn the nuts?
        1. +4
          19 July 2022 15: 43
          Not nuts. Nuts are no problem. And where to get the necessary trouble-free military microcircuits? Who can make them in Russia? These are the problems.
          1. +1
            19 July 2022 19: 25
            Yes, they do just military, space microelectronics, they don’t make high-performance civil, or rather, they do it, with some decent lag.
          2. 0
            22 July 2022 19: 48
            Do you think that our SSBNs have imported microcircuits ???
      4. 0
        19 July 2022 15: 42
        It's not a fantasy, it's a fantasy.
      5. +17
        19 July 2022 16: 53
        Quote: Thrifty
        it remains to be hoped that the state defense order will be adjusted in the direction of increasing purchases, primarily of military aviation and the fleet. But, these are just our dreams!

        Actually, the author missed the fact that the last order for those 20 - 24 Su-34s is an order for the Su-34 with the Sych complex, and this batch is intermediate, because another contract was signed (or agreed) for 80 Su-34M, with a new composition of avionics and AL-41F-1S engines.
        So there are these aircraft in the procurement plans, but the CBO may affect the TEMP of current orders. From the above statistics, it can be seen that the plant reached its peak, the production of 18 aircraft per year. I could have done more, but I was forced, on the contrary, to reduce the annual output, because the Moscow Region did not give promising contracts for the future.
        Little of !
        The plans of the Ministry of Defense were GENERALLY to close the production of combat aircraft at the plant. Chkalov, and transfer all production to Komsomolsk-on-Amur ... to save money. They say the Army does not need anything else, there will be no war, long live Optimization! People (skilled workers of the plant) were then told to "look for a new job as you yourself know", and if it weren't for the storm in the press, social networks and perhaps someone sensible in power, this plant would no longer exist ... Or rather, it capacities wanted to produce components for MS-21 fool . Praise to Ahura Mazda, this fake with 50% localization never took off, and the design bureau did offer an upgraded version of the Su-34M.
        So there are capacities, and if the desire and desire to have a combat-ready Army is in power, the production rate can be doubled (compared to peak indicators). But it will take time to train new personnel / return the laid-off, and appropriate funding.
        By the way, this year, according to the plan, at least 200 aircraft (airplanes / helicopters) should be transferred to the Aerospace Forces, and this is already the peak of the last decade. The already upgraded fighters / bombers - Su-30SM2, Su-34M / M2, should go into service, the production of the Su-57 is slowly swinging, the modernization and return to service of the MiG-31 continues, incl. in the MiG-31K version.
        So the number of aircraft delivered this year with a guarantee will cover the loss of aviation in the NWO. Of course, if aviation losses do not increase like an avalanche in the second half of the year ... What frankly I can’t believe.
    4. -41
      19 July 2022 06: 24
      Of course different! The USSR is a poor country and a backward country that has collapsed. And the Russian Federation is a sovereign state that is not going to disintegrate into anything.
    5. 0
      19 July 2022 12: 48
      Well, they are resurrecting.
      How did you get...
    6. +13
      19 July 2022 13: 38
      It always annoys me that the authors of articles publish photos that do not relate to what is written in the article. Here, too, the conversation is about the SU-34 and its older brother SU-24, but for some reason the author stuck instead of the SU-24 a photo of the MIG-31 fighters, about which there is not a word in the article.
    7. +2
      19 July 2022 15: 34
      And that without the revival of a large country from Brest and Lvov to Vladivostok, we cannot survive?
      And who promised you that we will survive? In my opinion, the trend is exactly the opposite.
  2. +16
    19 July 2022 05: 04
    NAZ actually works in one shift. And at the same time, it can produce not 12, but 15-18 cars a year. If desired, and work at least in two shifts, more than 25 boards per year is quite realistic.
    There is no shortage of money in the budget. If there is a problem anywhere, it is in the question of where to get pilots.
    NAZ also seems to have Okhotnik in production plans, and some parts for the Tu-160m. And repairs (with modernization) of already built Su-34s.

    It will be necessary to be wary when enrollment in aviation schools is increased.

    Well, yes, weaving the T-62. These vehicles are handed over to volunteer formations. Because fresh T-72s are already in units of the regular army, because crews need to be trained for a fresh FCS, for a lot of reasons.
    1. +16
      19 July 2022 05: 19
      If NAZ works in one shift, disrupting the defense order, then for some reason it cannot work in two shifts. There are no suitable workers, no components, or something else.
      1. -1
        19 July 2022 05: 26
        Not only in aviation and armored vehicles "old men" will go into battle (they are already in armored vehicles), but also fighters. The age of required volunteers has already been increased.
        1. +5
          19 July 2022 05: 44
          Nightmare) we will all die) Men who have passed Chechnya will come to the front) horror.
      2. AUL
        +5
        19 July 2022 09: 38
        Quote: t-12
        If NAZ works in one shift, disrupting the defense order, then for some reason it cannot work in two shifts.
        Aviation industry is one of the most high-tech industries. And the machine park there in many areas is the most complex machining centers, where you can’t put a vocational school worker, an operator with almost engineering knowledge is required there, because the dunce will screw up expensive equipment. The same can be said about repairmen - no one has canceled the PPR (scheduled preventive maintenance), and on complex equipment it is carried out by highly qualified specialists. And how, in the conditions of a catastrophic shortage of qualified manpower, the impossibility of updating the machine park and supporting the existing one with spare parts, problems with components (sanctions and their mother!), A mess with subcontractors and other problems (often artificially created), organize the work of at least one more shift? Dzhamshutov with files to dial?
        PS The same problems are in tank building, and in the automotive industry, etc.
        1. +14
          19 July 2022 11: 09
          All this is nonsense! people will start to pay! Pay from 200 rubles and get it in three shifts, when people want to earn money they learn very quickly! The trouble is that they don't want to pay! How can a CNC worker earn more than an accountant! Disorder!
          1. Kim
            +11
            19 July 2022 12: 03
            The problem is that you had to start paying a little earlier
            You won't gain experience in half a day.
            1. +5
              19 July 2022 12: 19
              Money does wonders, I myself saw how pensioners with zero computer literacy mastered the Word in a couple of days .. Five months of NVO goes on during this time, you can do a lot of things, and if it’s not done, it’s considered and what is sufficient or direct sabotage .. Time will tell what It was..
              1. Kim
                -1
                20 July 2022 04: 07
                mastered at the level of "fill the text"? believe
          2. +9
            19 July 2022 12: 10
            There are no skilled workers, thank Yeltsin and Gorbachev, actually for the war, as a logical result of the collapse of the USSR too ..
          3. 0
            19 July 2022 15: 52
            For 10 years already, a qualified machine operator earns more than an accountant ...
            But it's getting harder to find them
            1. 0
              19 July 2022 19: 35
              Find when you start paying as the chief accountant.
        2. +3
          19 July 2022 12: 50
          For 10 years now, everything has been fine in the aviation industry in tactical aviation with production, but, as before, people who are not even on the side come and start talking nonsense about Dzhamshutov. And how the factories worked all these years.
        3. +2
          19 July 2022 13: 22
          Quote from AUL
          And the machine park there in many areas is the most complex machining centers, where you can’t put a vocational school worker, an operator with almost engineering knowledge is required there, because the dunce will screw up expensive equipment.


          I also work at the "most complex machining center". And I don’t just press buttons, but I also think about how and with what to do this order, I prepare everything, from writing a program to producing equipment. Education - ten classes - dunce because.
          1. AUL
            0
            19 July 2022 14: 19
            Quote: Simple
            I prepare everything, from writing the program to the production of equipment.

            And what kind of company is this for you, if a dunce with 10 classes (as you put it) works at a "complex machining center", while performing the duties of a qualified operator, a machining technologist, a CNC technologist, and a tool technologist (together with tool production)! Yes, my friend, you are not a dunce, you are the only one, a nugget, a modern Lefty! You have no price! If it's not a secret, please clarify a number of questions:
            - what does your production produce?
            - what brand is your "most complex machining center"?
            - What software do you prepare CNC programs with?
            How do you rate tool life?
            And so I believe everything! wassat
            1. 0
              19 July 2022 21: 31
              Our production produces metal products.
              Agree, a car in lam euros at prices a decade ago should a priori justify itself.
              Normal software, the functionality that the center is programmed with for programming is enough for the eyes for the machine (there are, of course, nuances)
              As I calculate - experience, and the possibility of settings in the machine itself in terms of monitoring tool wear (although oak, to be honest).
              I don’t know what should keep the master from picking up a team of smart people in fact.
        4. +3
          19 July 2022 14: 48
          Quote from AUL
          And the machine park there in many areas is the most complex machining centers, on which you can’t put a vocational school worker,

          Why? Previously, they trained turners, millers and other machine operators. Now CNC operators. The operator does not blunt over the drawings, does not sharpen tools, does not take into account the change in size due to temperature (the part is heated and it was poked all the time with a barbell), does not take into account the wear of the working part and the tool.
          The operator only needs to strictly follow the safety rules, and the CNC will not let him do the rest of the nonsense.
          1. AUL
            +1
            19 July 2022 15: 14
            Quote: Genry
            Why? Previously, they trained turners, millers and other machine operators. Now CNC operators....
            The operator only needs to strictly follow the safety rules, and the CNC will not let him do the rest of the nonsense.

            In fact of the matter. When a person does some work mechanically, without a clue, and even more so on complex equipment, this is always fraught with disaster. An emergency situation has arisen, the stand has failed or the machine itself - this must be seen in time and reacted correctly! To do this, you need to have knowledge and experience not at the level of a vocational school graduate.
            As folk wisdom says - "Give a fool a member of the crystal, so he will break the thing and cut his hands!". Unfortunately, modern vocational colleges are mostly attended by not particularly gifted students who do not even want to study, and specialists of the appropriate level graduate from there. It is not for nothing that they are not allowed close to the CNC in production, but they are put on work such as peeling blanks. I don’t speak for everyone, there are also talented guys, but this is the exception that proves the rule.
            1. +1
              19 July 2022 15: 49
              Quote from AUL
              An emergency situation has arisen, the stand has failed or the machine itself - this must be seen in time and reacted correctly! To do this, you need to have knowledge and experience not at the level of a vocational school graduate.

              For such situations (they develop in a split second) there are mentors and masters. In the event of a breakdown - a question to the repairmen.
              Quote from AUL
              put on work such as stripping blanks.

              It is also a necessary work that allows you to develop the necessary qualities for a machine operator and feel the production.
            2. 0
              20 July 2022 19: 25
              Quote from AUL
              modern vocational colleges are mostly not particularly gifted students who do not even want to study, and specialists of the appropriate level are graduating from there.

              Pfffff ...
              It's been that way since the 1970s...
              When vocational schools were deciphered - "Send Stupid Learns" ...
              1. +2
                21 July 2022 15: 03
                Up to half of the motivated students studied with me - THE SALARY AFTER A TECHNICAL SCHUM IS USUALLY ONE AND A HALF TO TWO TIMES HIGHER THAN A GRADUATE OF A UNIVERSITY (EXCEPT FOR THE BLATNY) so about stupid ones, as far as I remember, this is about agricultural schools. In state farms, most often there was no career prospect, urban agricultural institutions were tightly packed children of officials. Now, instead of the Soviet technical school, balakvariat, so studying at vocational schools has sharply depreciated
                1. 0
                  21 July 2022 15: 28
                  Quote: Siberian54
                  SALARY AFTER COLLEGE SCHOOL IS USUALLY ONE AND A HALF-TWO TIMES HIGHER THAN A GRADUATE OF THE UNIVERSITY (EXCEPT thieves)

                  You are right - that is why after 1960 the image of the "physicist" began to fade sharply. And then the nickname "MeNeeS" arose - as beings of a narrow-minded, disenfranchised, unpromising and with a small salary ...
                  And things in science (except for the defense industry) began to slowly come to a standstill ... Engineers in the USSR always received fewer hard workers.
                  My father was the head of the PMK - he received 215 they are 300-350. And he had a maximum - a medal / diploma easily - and another 50 rubles is nonsense. And this, with all the responsibility for more than 200 people
                  Quote: Siberian54
                  urban agricultural institutions were tightly packed with children of officials

                  They will tear you now - "There were no officials in the USSR !!! it was only in the Russian Federation that people appeared !!!"
                  Quote: Siberian54
                  Now instead of the Soviet technical school, balakvariat, so studying at vocational schools has sharply depreciated
                  - The vocational schools sharply depreciated at the moment when the guards began to pay 2 per shift - more than at the factory turner. Does it make sense to stand behind the machine - if they give more for sitting?
    2. +1
      19 July 2022 07: 21
      ... more than 25 boards per year is quite realistic.
      There is no shortage of money in the budget. If there is a problem anywhere, it is in the question of where to get pilots.

      The FBA faculty in Krasnodar graduates a significantly larger number of pilots (not pilots, because not GA) per year than 25, so do not worry, African mercenaries will not be required. Yes, there are some in stock.
    3. 0
      19 July 2022 08: 11
      Quote: demiurg
      Well, yes, weaving the T-62.


      these are logistics problems that apparently no one considered, and not intertwining, something to something
      and our logistics determines success in the NWO, not Western weapons
      but there is a problem with logistics: in Berdyansk they unloaded 3 large landing ships next to each other, as in peacetime - they saw the result, there are apparently many such examples, but they cannot be assessed "from the couch"
    4. +17
      19 July 2022 08: 11
      NAZ actually works in one shift. And at the same time, it can produce not 12, but 15-18 cars per year

      laughing Do you know how much the 21st factory in Gorky (now "Sokol" N.Nnovgorod) riveted in
      1984? 17 MiG-31 aircraft per month. Plus MiG-21 bis for export. What is now is utter relaxation for any decent plant.
      And Roman, no need for tantrums. In addition to the raid, there is also a calendar resource. Let them fly better than stick out on the ground - it’s all the same, and so, and so send to the capital. It's good at least if it comes out earlier by the clock than by the calendars. The commanders have only one concern - the output should be uniform along the sides. And wear is a measurable parameter. For example , along the blades of the first stage of the compressor . But we do not seem to have Syria with Afghanistan with their dust. Yes, and the engine is thrown into parts, and not at a repair plant.
      So it’s easy to produce planes, but how will we pay people? In peacetime, under capitalism, you won’t be able to put a woman for nothing on a spot welding machine, as in the USSR.
      1. +1
        19 July 2022 08: 27
        Do you know how much the 21st factory in Gorky (now "Sokol" N.Nnovgorod) riveted in
        1984? 17 MiG-31 aircraft per month.

        The director of the Samara plant "Aviaagregat" at a banquet, after the completion of the work of the interdepartmental commission for the adoption of a new product, remembered that in the early 80s the plant made 30 sets of MiG-29 chassis per month ...
        1. +7
          19 July 2022 09: 12
          A year ago, experts said that Russia lost to the assembly line-large-scale production of military equipment. What is now being produced and passed off as "serial" in Soviet times was called small-scale pilot production.
          1. -2
            19 July 2022 12: 44
            We are not interested in the opinion of experts from Kievisho. A series of hundreds of cars is definitely not a pilot production, and it certainly does not matter how many penny MiG-21 type aircraft were riveted in the USSR, which served for a maximum of 15 years, and whose squadron is replaced by 1 Su-35. There is the size of the army, under it and the saturation of equipment. The Russian army is about 5 times smaller than the Soviet one.
            1. -2
              19 July 2022 22: 47
              Only losses in Afghanistan for 10 years are less than half that for 4 months on the edge, who is the pest, what puts the fighters apart from ???
              1. 0
                25 July 2022 12: 29
                so the war is different, there is a regular army with the latest NATO weapons and not gangs in the mountains
                1. -1
                  27 July 2022 00: 42
                  Of course, it’s different, in Afghanistan, fighters went to caravans so that the weapons of the Basmachi-Dushmans would not come, but now on the edge and the ports have been unblocked and the supply of weapons, equipment, ammunition without restrictions in logistics has been provided from abroad, because all railway roads and airfields, bridges are operating, and therefore we have such losses, everyone knows the reason and every day they show the consequences of this reason, our soldiers and civilians are dying, and why these reasons cannot be eliminated, but things have been there for 5 months now, and now more weapons will be transported through the ports. Inspection on the Bosphorus of ships going to the Kraine will not give anything, after the inspection, the ships will easily go to the Romanians, load military property: weapons, food, ammunition and directly to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and our soldiers will again suffer huge losses, now they have stopped reporting in the reports for the last two months loss data, I know that they are large. There is a war going on and a general mobilization is needed, otherwise the fighters die, and the hairy wheels at concerts are swallowed and put on it by everyone. At least once a day of mourning was declared, but there is no one to commemorate our fighters. All this is wrong, we are fighting against the entire Western world and at the same time we send them our resources, grain, oil, gas, electricity, so that they produce weapons against us, ammunition that will kill and maim our soldiers, while at the same time we provide them with free supplies this weapon is nonsense, someone wants to fill their pockets with blood, but why is this a business, nothing personal, just money. That is why there is a war and through the war gas flows through the krajina to the Poles, but water does not flow to the Donbass and Luhansk, there is too much why, all this is sad, people are sorry for our soldiers, but the Nazis are not sorry, but in captivity they live better than people in the territories devastated by them, why does the whole West consider the Nazis good? Everything turned upside down, all these Nazis - murderers, rapists, marauders are whitewashed by the fact that they are waging a war of liberation, and the fact that they committed massacres of civilians with particular cruelty, violence against women and children, does not bother anyone. By winter, ours will sign contracts again, everything will calm down again, and the country will again be pumped up with weapons and it will start again in the spring, God forbid, of course ....
                  1. -2
                    27 July 2022 05: 22
                    do you think Putin and the generals are doing everything to defeat the army and ours were defeated
                    1. -1
                      27 July 2022 09: 19
                      In fact, and according to their actions and inaction, it turns out how else to consider it, they kill our soldiers, and we supply them with gas for this, is this not treason ???
                      1. -1
                        27 July 2022 09: 31
                        not for this, but for the money for which we later build tanks for our troops, pay salaries, etc., well, turn off the gas, so what? they will still kill us and we will not have the means
                      2. -1
                        28 July 2022 09: 26
                        So we had 300 lard dollars, which the states gave us, but they didn’t work, we didn’t have a single ball bearing factory left, we buy everything, and why not spend this money on building enterprises that we don’t have or on producing drones? Because no one is responsible for anything. Instead of strengthening the country, the army, medicine, our rulers put our money in storage for the amers, who appropriated it and no sanctions against them, and Kudrin and all the rest continue to work, Chubys stole and went abroad, all this is wrong, we will continue to be patient, expressing concern. And as for gas, it turns out like this, we are racing it to the west, and in our country 3/4 of the territories live without gas, what is it, let everyone else live without gas, and we should have it in every village. We must do good for our people and our country, but why we do this to our enemies, I do not understand ...
    5. -1
      19 July 2022 09: 40
      Quote: demiurg
      NAZ actually works in one shift

      Absolutely the same situation at UVZ. The tank part of the plant works a shortened week.
      The carriage part of the plant is generally idle.
      1. +1
        19 July 2022 12: 59
        At the same time, we have neither wagons nor containers for the North-South corridor...
      2. +2
        19 July 2022 17: 14
        Because the 2 largest bearing manufacturers have stopped working in Russia. Sanctions.
        Bearings for cars, ships, railways transport is not.
        We'll have to wait for a replacement from China.
        1. +4
          19 July 2022 17: 20
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Because the 2 largest bearing manufacturers have stopped working in Russia.

          And theirs were closed by d'effective managers. Samara Bearing Plant, for example, wrote about this here a couple of years ago.
        2. 0
          19 July 2022 22: 53
          Thank you Chubys, I destroyed 40 thousand factories, while several ball-bearing plants, none of my own, the destruction of industry is sabotage, under the USSR they were raised with blood, sweat and currency, under Yeltsin and others they all were sprayed, and what was left were tears, and what is left of the past, from the USSR.
  3. Eug
    +2
    19 July 2022 05: 10
    You have to understand that Su-34 is not yet being repaired at any ARP? Engines too? And what about the engines - they seemed to say that a single engine would be installed on the Su - 30, 34, 35, how are things going with that? More questions than answers... Once upon a time there was a serious repair base in Millerovo, but it is close to Ukraine, it is clearly not suitable for today.
    1. +3
      19 July 2022 12: 40
      Remzavod is an assembly shop of a conventional factory with a minimum production of kits. The whole task is there, to disassemble and assemble, replacing something. If the product capacities are idle, then repairs are often done on them.
  4. +16
    19 July 2022 05: 13
    It is terrible to think what would happen if we met with a normally armed army.
    With overwhelming superiority, we see results.
    The destruction of each Ukrainian self-propelled guns - articles for a couple of days. And if the enemy of these aircraft, MLRS and self-propelled guns would have (or will, God forbid) hundreds?
    Wow, but sad.
    1. -10
      19 July 2022 05: 17
      In. New mantra) Ukrainian self-propelled guns?) Ukrainian pancake?) May I ask which Ukrainian plant produced it? The name of the Ukrainian designer who created it? Can you name the factory that made it?
      1. +2
        20 July 2022 02: 59
        The name of the Ukrainian designer who created it?

        And you weren't interested in the names of designers and factories that produce microcircuits that are in our systems?
        Yes, there is also a little of ours.
    2. +4
      19 July 2022 05: 25
      Self-propelled guns and MLRS NATO will throw as much as they want. But they will throw up slowly, their goal is to drag out the conflict longer. Bolton spoke about the "30 Years' War" in March.
      1. -4
        19 July 2022 12: 40
        It remains only to indicate where they will take it all, when they themselves have armies of 200-300 tanks.
        1. +4
          19 July 2022 15: 00
          USA - 750 M1A1 SA, 1605 M1A2 SEPv2, 154 M1A2C, 113 M1ABV, 51 M1074 (over 3700 M1A1/M1A2 in storage)[77]

          This is only in the USA and only one tank.
          1. -3
            19 July 2022 15: 12
            That's right, only in the USA there are tanks. Bye. Since there has been no production there for a long time, for some reason they also believe that having several thousand tanks in storage should not be thrown away. For some reason, only so far not a single "Abrams" has been brought to dill.
            1. +2
              19 July 2022 17: 42
              It will take - bring. But in general, there is little sense from tanks. The defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is built on field fortifications + artillery.
    3. +2
      19 July 2022 06: 10
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      And if the enemy of these aircraft, MLRS and self-propelled guns would have (or will, God forbid) hundreds?

      fool They were just like that ... they were just burned already. You slept... good morning!
    4. Kim
      -5
      19 July 2022 06: 11
      maybe, then the actions of our army would be different?
      now, almost for the first time in history, they really try to minimize losses
      the beautiful operations of the Red Army were paid for with the blood of Russian fighters, we must not forget, saying "oh, how quickly they advanced then, oh, how they are pulling now!"
      1. -2
        19 July 2022 09: 38
        And now, when they are "pulling" there is no blood of Russian fighters? Or are we imagining everything?
        1. Kim
          -2
          19 July 2022 10: 06
          do you even know the difference between "little" and "a lot"?
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. -1
        19 July 2022 22: 57
        Why minimization, in four months of NWO, the losses are twice as much as in 10 years in Afghanistan, where is the minimization ???
        1. Kim
          0
          20 July 2022 04: 17
          and Afghanistan, EMNIP, 14 thousand killed
          where did you get the data on losses in the NWO?
          1. -1
            24 July 2022 17: 37
            Shoigu himself voiced on TV, in June, about 20 thousand of our soldiers, he would not have believed it if he had not seen it personally ..
            1. Kim
              0
              25 July 2022 05: 49
              dead or all?
              and in general, if he voiced - these figures should be somewhere not only in the form of "I heard, he said, I remember"
              say, when Konashenkov voices the losses from our blows - this is also in text format, and you can see it
              1. -1
                25 July 2022 08: 12
                Everything was published, the losses were voiced by both Shoigu and Konashenkov, but since July there has been no more word about the losses killed naturally. Now they understand that it is impossible to talk about losses and are silent, like bishops at a reception. Look on the net, in the reports on the NWO for May-June from the Moscow Region and you will find everything, unless of course everything was deleted, well, you probably alone do not know what everyone knows
    5. +2
      19 July 2022 12: 37
      There were hundreds of them, otherwise no one would have been messing around for so long. In terms of numbers, the Armed Forces of Ukraine was indeed the strongest army in Europe after Russia.
  5. +17
    19 July 2022 05: 19
    in the photo moment 31 and not su 24
  6. -10
    19 July 2022 05: 54
    you can “destroy” aviation and air defense of Ukraine as much as you like in reports, but in fact, Russia does not have a total advantage in the air.
    Brave if you please? fool We do not have advantages in the air, but dominance! hi
    1. +12
      19 July 2022 06: 57
      Come on, say right away - the kingdom
      1. -10
        19 July 2022 07: 04
        Quote: eskulap
        Come on, say right away - the kingdom

        belayThe kingdom of heaven is still early. fool “But it’s too early for us to die. We still have things to do at home!” (Song of a front-line driver)
    2. +20
      19 July 2022 07: 22
      Enough already. Domination was in Syria. On the outskirts, we only have an advantage in the air, but even then over the line of contact. The air defense of Ukraine, thanks to NATO, has not been destroyed, but rather confidently works on aviation. If this is not the case, then why don’t we bomb the central and western parts of Ukraine with bombs (even if they are guided), but rather use rather expensive missiles? We need to call a spade a spade.
      1. +1
        19 July 2022 09: 20
        I don’t understand a little, when in Syria we were bombarding everyone shouting fuuu, they can’t work with high-precision weapons, now we are working with high-precision missiles and is something wrong again? My only question is, how are you going to destroy the air defense systems of our adversary, probably with anti-radar missiles, and now the main thing would you send your son there if he were a pilot, albeit not in the first, but let's say, the second echelon?
        1. +4
          19 July 2022 13: 43
          Good time, Vasily. The cost of Kolibra is in the region of three million greens (at the same time, it is not manufactured for a work shift), the x-101 is also not a cheap pleasure. We, due to the inability to completely suppress the air defense of the thief, beat them at the level of a machine gun. This is the essence of the answer Mauritius. How, having pulled on a red shirt))), he claims about complete dominance. Why lie to himself and the people? With complete dominance, we would have used SVP-24 on aircraft and would have covered everything even with bricks with the highest accuracy. As for the children, I will say this, my elders are 29 and 25, they have long made their choice and do not ask me for permission.
          1. +2
            19 July 2022 14: 11
            Well, I had a clear question, would you yourself send them to destroy air defense? The question was that they would have given the order to open and suppress air defense, this would have been done, but at a very high price, and the remaining aircraft would have covered targets with bricks, but we have a completely different tactic now, in a year all the bricks will add up.
          2. -8
            19 July 2022 15: 10
            Quote: zadorin1974
            The cost of Kolibra is in the region of three million greens (at the same time, it is not manufactured for a work shift)

            Don't carry ... Calibers were not sold and domestic prices for them are closed.
            Quote: zadorin1974
            How he, pulling on a red shirt))) declares complete domination.

            Air supremacy is the ability to perform tasks by the forces of the Aerospace Forces, which they do by shooting down a couple of aircraft daily over enemy territory.

            Quote: zadorin1974
            With complete domination, we would use SVP-24 on aircraft and would cover everything with even bricks with the highest accuracy.

            It is too expensive: the depreciation of aircraft and related equipment, the maintenance of maintenance personnel and the entire infrastructure. For rockets, everything is an order of magnitude simpler and cheaper.
            The material consumption of an aircraft or missile strike is at the same level.
            1. +4
              19 July 2022 16: 42
              Sit down, there are two of you. The export version of the "NKE caliber" or "Club-N", is on the Indian Talwar frigates. They were also offered for Vietnam as a big club on the export Karakurts. The answer to the second statement is that they fly only in the front line ( we do not have air supremacy, we only surpass it) The answer is three - you carefully read what you write comments on - in addition to Caliber, I cited the X-101 as an example (if anything, then it is an air launch)))) All the best .
              1. -1
                19 July 2022 19: 58
                Actually, the export and internal versions of the Caliber are two big differences. Export versions fly 300km, subject to contractual limits. You probably know how those in service with Russia fly. I did not come across domestic prices for these missiles, and you are unlikely to know them either. Strategic aviation (TU-160, TU-95) is able to turn, for example, Lvov, into a pile of small gravel in a day, and air defense will not interfere with them. You need it, are you that bloodthirsty?
                1. +1
                  19 July 2022 21: 23
                  Good time, Pavel. aviation does not come in. And you have to hit with expensive missiles. The second states that the use of high-precision missiles is cheaper than the operation of aircraft. By the way, three lyamas, this is the cost of an export (simplified) missile, subtract 25 percent and get the cost. Of course, I don’t guarantee, but the internal price of our Caliber will not be lower than the export price (with all the additional bells and whistles). And yes, there is no point in turning Lviv into Dreden at the end of WWII, but there is the destruction of the transport structure. , but the end result will not reduce the price.
                  1. +2
                    20 July 2022 05: 43
                    Sorry, Alexey, if I did not quite understand the meaning of your previous posts. In turn, I would like to note that despite the peppy tone of the UkroSMI, their air defense is practically destroyed. There is no continuous air defense protective field over Ukraine. Separate deliveries of Soviet air defense products from Eastern Europe do not make a difference. In any case, VKS SU-35 and SU-30 fighters control the sky over all of Ukraine, destroying oncoming aircraft and helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the identified air defense systems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. This information comes from various sources, not only Russian ones. It is difficult for an ordinary person to understand what the goals of the NWO are specifically. Most likely, they are multi-layered and change over time, adapt. So far, one can understand that they are trying to preserve the infrastructure of the RF Armed Forces as much as possible, as well as to spare the civilian population.
      2. +2
        19 July 2022 12: 47
        The main question is why air defense is not destroyed? Having knocked it out, we will increase the effectiveness of aviation by an order of magnitude .. How is the air defense of ukrov directed at our aircraft? apparently with the help of radars and the question is why they are not destroyed? Full of tools! True, for this it is necessary to keep planes with anti-radar missiles in the air around the clock and competently organize detection and target designation, which is difficult and expensive, I don’t consider troubles about target designation for air defense over the Donbass from the west because it is technically impossible, too far .. In the cart, this topic was raised by pressing on the fact that no one really needs this, as always, disunity in the use of types and branches of troops in the database, apparently from here the legs of this omission grow.
        1. +3
          19 July 2022 15: 22
          Quote: max702
          I don’t consider troubles about target designation for air defense over the Donbass from the west because it is technically impossible, too far.

          Is 200 km far? The radar on the satellite, in the appropriate orbit, sees even a couple of meters underground.
          AWACS from the territory of Poland, Moldova, the sea - perfectly sees high echelons of more than 500 km. They really have all the target detection.
          Quote: max702
          In the cart, this topic was raised, emphasizing that no one really needs this, as always, disunity in the use of types and branches of troops in the database, apparently from here the legs of this omission grow.

          It is there that experts should draw information for implementation, since shkolota has the greatest experience in applying his great knowledge.
          1. +1
            20 July 2022 22: 25
            Is 200 km far? The radar on the satellite, in the appropriate orbit, sees even a couple of meters underground.
            Well, this is from the realm of fairy tales. AWACS is serious.
    3. +12
      19 July 2022 09: 17
      With air supremacy, not a single enemy railway train with military equipment will pass during the day. And now it's not even close.
      1. Kim
        -6
        19 July 2022 10: 07
        10 wagons of products, 10 passenger wagons and 3 platforms with tanks mixed in the echelon
        goes by day, openly in front of everyone
        your actions ?
        1. +7
          19 July 2022 10: 42
          I am not going to consider unrealistic options with civilian passengers in the military echelon. The most likely option is that military personnel are traveling in passenger cars. The conclusion is to bomb.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. +4
              19 July 2022 13: 56
              If the leadership of the Ukraine does not give a damn about its people (how it looks in your example, and real examples on the face), then why should we care? There is military equipment that, in violation of all norms, is transported with civilian cargo, it must still be destroyed. It is a joy to transport ammunition and ammunition to ambulance armed militants, place artillery and RAV warehouses on civilian objects. At the expense of Bucha and Kramotorsk, you don’t need to drag in - there are enough Ukrainian videos on YouTube, as it was directed. Be healthy patriot)))
              1. Kim
                -1
                20 July 2022 04: 12
                I can say one thing - it’s good that smarter people are sitting in the General Staff
                calculate the consequences of their decisions
  7. +12
    19 July 2022 05: 55
    Nevertheless, a certain number of aircraft are irretrievably lost at the moment, and some will fail due to the exhaustion of their resource.


    There is such a thing as routine work. They are carried out precisely to extend the life of the aircraft. They are different and are usually held in the places of deployment. And only if a major overhaul or a deep modernization is needed, the planes are driven to aircraft factories. I don’t remember at the moment, but if we take the order, then the airframe resource is somewhere around 2-3 engine resources. And the engine is usually changed at airfields and there is no need to drive anyone across the country.
    1. AUL
      -4
      19 July 2022 09: 51
      Quote: Maluck
      And the engine is usually changed at airfields and there is no need to drive anyone across the country.

      Through the "whole country" you only need to carry the engine. And with our unpretentious logistics, there are questions about this.
  8. +11
    19 July 2022 05: 59
    The article describes the intensive work of aviation 24/7, in fact, I do not see the result of this intensity. Judging by the performance characteristics, the Su34 is capable of detecting a tank-type target at a distance of 70 km, then why aren’t Ukrainian self-propelled guns that fire at Donetsk from a distance of 30 km for an hour or more are not destroyed?
    1. -10
      19 July 2022 08: 40
      Maybe because the Russian Air Force is forbidden by the command to massively use guided munitions. You don't see that many of them. And driving Su-34s with FABs is stupid, so they started using the SU-24s - it’s not a pity to lose them ...
      1. +10
        19 July 2022 09: 40
        "So they started using the SU-24 - it's not a pity to lose them ..."
        You write as if this plane is a complete robot, without 2 living pilots inside. And they, too, are "not a pity to lose"?
    2. -2
      19 July 2022 12: 36
      Firstly, no one shells for an hour, they run right away.
      Secondly, to see a tank from 2 km, and even recognize that it is a tank, this is from the realm of fairy tales, the ground is very uneven and there are plenty of opportunities to hide on it. All these numbers are given for ideal conditions.
    3. 0
      19 July 2022 16: 23
      The red boxes are closed. Open only during wartime. And now a special operation. Only the capabilities of AT are used in peacetime.
  9. +5
    19 July 2022 05: 59
    Comrade eyewitness, you put the MiG25 in the photo, instead of the SU24, do not disgrace yourself.
    1. +7
      19 July 2022 07: 00
      Like the 31st moment
  10. +5
    19 July 2022 06: 14
    But in general, I would like things to happen a little differently.

    What we want is not always needed by those who HAVE to deal with these issues directly ...
    *****
    And you wanted the Main Temple of the Armed Forces of Russia?
    Here it is in all its glory:

    And Shoigu, before the start of the parade, began to be baptized:

    And this is the main point.
    1. +2
      19 July 2022 07: 55
      And this is also important! People fight, not soulless bodies.
    2. +1
      19 July 2022 09: 41
      I never understood this construction and probably never will.
      1. AUL
        0
        19 July 2022 09: 57
        And why a Christian temple, and not a mosque, not a synagogue, not a Buddhist pagoda (or whatever they have), not a Baptist prayer house?
        1. Kim
          -6
          19 July 2022 10: 08
          but build
          no ban
          1. AUL
            +1
            19 July 2022 10: 20
            Quote from kim
            but build
            no ban

            The question "why?" suggests the answer is "because...(more to the point)", not your permission to build!
            1. Kim
              -10
              19 July 2022 10: 30
              Yes exactly
              "It would be better if they gave it to pensioners!"
              Did I read your thoughts correctly?
              1. +10
                19 July 2022 10: 47
                No. It would be better to order equipment and weapons with this money. So that the army team does not have to, for example, turn to the KCPN for batteries for UAVs.
                Because this temple was built with the money of the budget and state employees. No matter how they try to disguise them as "voluntary donations".
                If the church wants a temple, let it build it. But on their own.
                1. Kim
                  -9
                  19 July 2022 12: 01
                  sorry, you are not invited to the Ministry of Finance
                  but they didn’t call in MO? to the General Staff? why do you think?
                  1. +8
                    19 July 2022 13: 54
                    Quote from kim
                    but they didn’t call in MO? to the General Staff? why do you think?

                    So everybody knows because the marshal has his own children. © smile

                    Therefore, in MO peace and grace. And the "A4 format army" is always ready to shower the adversary with plump folders of reports on combat and political training.
                    1. Kim
                      -4
                      20 July 2022 04: 09
                      ahh...
                      I had decided that because the gray (and stupid) mice there did not need a genius at all as a competitor ...
                      By the way, can I inquire about success in more modest positions? talent, and even more so a genius, he will show himself everywhere, right?
                      1. +1
                        20 July 2022 10: 03
                        Quote from kim
                        I had decided that because the gray (and stupid) mice there did not need a genius at all as a competitor ...

                        You don't need to project. smile
                        Quote from kim
                        By the way, can I inquire about success in more modest positions? talent, and even more so a genius, he will show himself everywhere, right?

                        Yes Yes Yes, get over it first. ©
                      2. Kim
                        -2
                        21 July 2022 05: 17
                        Please forgive me if I offended you :)
                        Not that I didn't want to, I wanted to :)
                        -------------------
                        seriously, for all the memetic "get it first" - this is exactly what serves as the criterion "listen to what he says / advises, or not"
                        there are, of course, (for example, philosophers) smart people, but inactive precisely because of their understanding of both their capabilities and limitations
                        but there are others - there is no mind, but they can give advice to everyone, at all levels, precisely because of a lack of understanding of the complexity of life
              2. AUL
                +3
                19 July 2022 13: 35
                Quote from kim
                Yes exactly
                "It would be better if they gave it to pensioners!"

                Attempt # XXUMX.
                The question was: Why was an Orthodox church adopted as the Main Temple of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation? For in Russia there are many different confessions, and I consider it incorrect to single out one of them (I myself am a convinced atheist). So the question was not about money at all. And not about the fact that Shoigu is being baptized. And about nothing else.
                Available?
                1. +2
                  19 July 2022 14: 34
                  Quote from AUL
                  The question was: Why was an Orthodox church adopted as the Main Temple of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation?


                  Article 14
                  1. The Russian Federation is a secular state. No religion can be established as state or mandatory.
                  2. Religious associations are separated from the state and are equal before the law.

                  Quote from AUL
                  For in Russia there are many different confessions, and I consider it incorrect to single out one of them (I myself am a convinced atheist).

                2. Kim
                  -4
                  20 July 2022 04: 11
                  m.b. because there was Orthodoxy in the Russian Empire? m.b. because today he considers himself more Orthodox than Muslims, along with the rest?
                  1. +2
                    20 July 2022 10: 14
                    Quote from kim
                    m.b. because there was Orthodoxy in the Russian Empire?

                    So in the Empire, even formally, Orthodoxy was inseparable from the state and was controlled by the state. Do you remember such a body as the Holy Synod?
                    ... a conciliar government that has all kinds of supreme power in the Russian Orthodox Church and is in relations with Orthodox churches abroad, through which the supreme autocratic power operates in church administration, which established it

                    And the Russian Federation, according to the Constitution, is a secular state, and all religions are equal. Or offer like our neighbors - here we play the Constitution, here we don’t play, here they wrapped the fish? So they ended badly.
                    Quote from kim
                    m.b. because today he considers himself more Orthodox than Muslims, along with the rest?

                    Ranks is the exact term. smile I wonder how many of those who reckon themselves know at least the text of the Creed?
                    1. Kim
                      -3
                      21 July 2022 05: 18
                      secular, yes
                      but not atheistic
                      ----------------------
                      very few, I agree
                      and ? not build temples on this foundation?
                      1. +1
                        21 July 2022 09: 48
                        Quote from kim
                        very few, I agree
                        and ? not build temples on this foundation?

                        Build. But on a common basis for all religions and at their expense. And not at the expense of the budget of Moscow, the Moscow region and "voluntary" contributions from state employees.
                        The state should only allocate land for construction.
                      2. Kim
                        -2
                        21 July 2022 09: 52
                        Well, we decided to build
                        you have m.b. other opinion is ok
                        he was not taken into account - this is also normal
                        The temple stands, makes people happy - this is also normal
                        you don't like it - and that's ok too :)
                        --------------------
                        grow to the level of decision maker or comparable - and your opinion will also be taken into account
                        keep growing :)
  11. +13
    19 July 2022 06: 32
    Combat sorties for an aircraft, if we exclude the possibility of hitting air defense, are no different from sorties to a training ground. A typical flight shift in an aviation regiment involves 10 or more aircraft. Usually at least 3-4 flight shifts per week. So I would argue about the increased resource consumption.
  12. +7
    19 July 2022 06: 35
    And this is what I have been talking about for a long time, we need duplicate production facilities. This was true in the union, and this is true and necessary for strategic security. But it turns out that we have su34 Novosibirsk, su27 Komsomolsk, obt is made by UVZ, ka52 is Arseniev, etc. ... Moreover, these understudy enterprises should be in different parts of the country to ensure the sustainability of their implementation of state government in which case. A full-fledged military conflict in Ukraine showed how vulnerable we are in this regard, but what if NATO? If the enemy will be with air defense, and aviation, and a slave? Damn, well then, how about at 41 or something, retreat to Moscow and then get up a huge country? The 90s and the XNUMXs made us shy, we thought there would be no big wars. And it’s how it turned out, and not somewhere there, but here, on the Russian lands. And there's no end in sight
    1. +7
      19 July 2022 08: 21
      That world will no longer be, the thunder has struck, it is late to be baptized. You need to finally understand that there is a war going on! And no one knows which of our partners, through their stupidity or under duress, will get stuck in this war. learns from his mistakes, smart from others. You can't live like before. It will never be like before!
    2. -5
      19 July 2022 09: 21
      There were no duplicate capacities in the USSR, do not fantasize. It's just that some of the most sought-after cars were sometimes produced simultaneously by different factories, but this was quite rare.
    3. AUL
      +2
      19 July 2022 10: 04
      Quote: FoBoss_V
      And this is what I have been talking about for a long time, we need duplicate production facilities.

      In peacetime, this is too expensive, because they do not need so much of their products, and it is very unprofitable to produce conversion products at a military plant. Well, do not produce pans on multi-axis machining centers! And when the war time came, it was too late to drink Borjomi!
  13. +2
    19 July 2022 06: 57
    Quote from tsvetahaki
    It is terrible to think what would happen if we met with a normally armed army.
    With overwhelming superiority, we see results.
    The destruction of each Ukrainian self-propelled guns - articles for a couple of days. And if the enemy of these aircraft, MLRS and self-propelled guns would have (or will, God forbid) hundreds?
    Wow, but sad.

    In fact, the good guys have been pulling weapons from all over the world for eight years and, accordingly, they have been preparing for the same amount. They were not one on one with the enemy. And by the beginning of the SVU, they were already a normally armed army (until feathers flew from them). No one has yet heard of the huge success of the great rainbow armies. And it may well happen that they will not be able to fight better than the bad ones. If only because they never fought in a serious way.
    With a different army, the alignment would be different, tougher. No one would remember any fraternal ties, but would wet between the horns at full strength. Well, for example, what kind of brothers are Poles, Britons or penguins to us?
    Therefore, your cry is not much touched.
    1. 0
      19 July 2022 16: 10
      Moreover, I will say. The picture of the work will change a lot in the Western world. The local peaceful is not a peaceful one at all, but a resource for continuing to cultivate banderlogs.
      They do not want to flee the gray zone either to the east or to the west - to be considered as a DRG.
      The picture will seriously change both in terms of speed and quality of work. WE WILL NOT NEED to keep housing and industrial facilities there. That's where cast iron from a height and from the stomach offhand with a fan is possible.
  14. -5
    19 July 2022 07: 02
    An author with hearing and evidence needs to be more careful - in our foolish time, one can easily divulge state secrets
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. -6
    19 July 2022 07: 06
    Quote: Snail N9
    Not only in aviation and armored vehicles "old men" will go into battle (they are already in armored vehicles), but also fighters. The age of required volunteers has already been increased.

    How sometimes you have to get out in order to throw out at least something smelly ... "The age of the required volunteers has been increased." Come on, sweat appeared on the forehead)))
  17. +5
    19 July 2022 07: 10
    The author seems to have confused the MiG-31 with the Su-24?
  18. -3
    19 July 2022 07: 14
    Not enough for us Saloreikhov's unfinished air defense, so now our own rukoshops have contracted to shoot down our planes. And how does it work? Here, either the air defense calculation is absolutely insane, unable to distinguish a hole from a donut and is completely unaware of the operational situation, or not working, again through someone else's fault, the friend or foe system. In any case, those responsible for such a disgrace should be demoted to the rank and file and forward to storm the dill trenches in Avdeevka.
  19. -2
    19 July 2022 07: 45
    respect to the author! well-reasoned article!
    1. -1
      19 July 2022 09: 48
      And now I'm showing you how to...

      The military aviation of Russia has more than 1800 aircraft, including more than 800 fighters Su-27, Su-30SM, Su-33, Su-35S, MiG-29, MiG-31 and their modifications, about 200 front-line bombers Su-34, Su-24M and their modifications, over 200 Su-25 attack aircraft, about 150 Yak-130 training aircraft and others, about 70 Tu-95 and Tu-160 strategic bombers and over 40 Tu-22M3 long-range bombers.

      In addition, the Aerospace Forces has about 400 military transport aircraft and Il-78 tanker aircraft, as well as more than 20 A-50 and A-50U long-range radar aircraft systems.

      The helicopter fleet numbers about 1500 attack, multipurpose and transport and landing helicopters Mi-8, Mi-24, Mi-35, Mi-26, Mi-28N, Ka-52.

      Now we remember that the resource is on the fly and calendar. Like a sausage - if you don't eat it, you'll throw it away anyway. It’s better to let them fly, it’s desirable to select a resource by flight time for the capital according to the calendar.
      We take the assigned resource (for example, 30 years). We look at how many fighters we want to have (let's say 900). This means that without taking into account losses (combat and "foolishly"), we must produce 30 boards annually, constantly replacing the "retired". We throw in a number of annual losses (4 pieces are obtained in recent years). And we get the required 34 sides.
      It's not all that scary. What about Skomorokhov? Well, perhaps a bit to press the oligarchs on the grandmas, and the factories can easily handle it. For them, and 10 pieces per month - seeds. The main thing is not to delay the replacement so that "no one grows".
      1. 0
        2 August 2022 19: 56
        And how many of them are full-fledged aircraft that can fly, fight or perform their functions as AWACS, a transport aircraft?
  20. 0
    19 July 2022 07: 52
    A fairly complete review and no complaints about it. The question is different. What for? The meaning of this review. We are not fighting alone Su 34. We make new ones and repair old ones. It's okay for now. What is the article about then? What are combat aircraft for? That's exactly what they are doing now! This is their work, their essence, they were made for this very reason! Of course there are losses, but they are not critical, if I may say so. While everything is going normal, why then raise a wave out of the blue? ❓
  21. +10
    19 July 2022 08: 12
    Author, you have a MiG-31 in your photo instead of a Su-24, to which you refer from time to time. Learn the mat part before writing an article.
    Secondly, there are more losses than you counted.
    5 Su-34s were shot down with confirmation of the serial number, and the 6th was shot down by our own anti-aircraft gunners 2 days ago in the Luhansk region. This is something that is 100% confirmed. Plus 1 Su-35 from 159 Guards. The IAP was shot down in the Kharkov region (the pilot is alive, Major Yemelyanov), plus at least 3 Su-30SM aircraft were shot down
    The plant in Novosibirsk can and will produce 12 aircraft per year in an already modernized version. Not so long ago, 4 aircraft were transferred to the Moscow Region.
  22. +7
    19 July 2022 08: 19
    The photo shows the MiG 31, right? Weird...
  23. -12
    19 July 2022 08: 27
    Considering that the wildlings actually no longer have air defense, then the BShU can be struck even from IL-2 attack aircraft. And what? Cheap and angry! ICE, frame made of steel pipes, sheathing made of plywood and Alga, into battle.
  24. +1
    19 July 2022 08: 46
    In the "carts" they write about another lost Su-34 from the "friendly fire" air defense of the DPR. The pilots are alive.
  25. -7
    19 July 2022 09: 05
    and where did thousands of IL2s from the Second World War go, in the sense of bombing they would be more effective than helicopters and it’s not a pity, 1 thousand would be enough to defeat the APU group, my personal opinion.
    1. +3
      19 July 2022 17: 50
      Quote from Mass Mass
      IL2 during the Second World War, in the sense of bombing, they would be more effective than helicopters and it’s not a pity,

      Do you feel sorry for the pilots who will fly too? Or terminator robots will sit at the controls.
    2. +2
      20 July 2022 10: 44
      Quote from Mass Mass
      and where did thousands of IL2s from the Second World War go, in the sense of bombing they would be more effective than helicopters and it’s not a pity, 1 thousand would be enough to defeat the APU group, my personal opinion.

      The IL-2 had problems even by the end of the Second World War - four to five times more forces had to be allocated to the air defense suppression group than to the strike group. And now the same 30-mm machine gun is even at the level of a motorized rifle squad.
      The time of dashing BShU on enemy positions from 200-300 m has passed - now even Ka-52s prefer to work as NARs from a nose-up, as far as possible from the enemy.
    3. 0
      20 July 2022 19: 51
      Or maybe it's better to dispossess the "cooperative lake" and stamp a couple of thousand UAVs? Or do you still feel sorry for the pilots?
  26. +1
    19 July 2022 09: 09
    In my sofa view, the conclusions are:
    1. Once again about unification (hence the convenience of logistics and repair and production and pilot training). We need a Single Su30XXX with a hanging container.
    2. We need another modernization of the Su24M (with brains up to the same level)
    3. We need a civilian liner of the Tu204RTs type (with a civilian resource, pilots) for a timely control center for Sushki (which could take more cargo and work in one flight for more targets)
    4. For this, refueling tankers are needed (so that the loaded Drying can take off with incomplete tanks and refuel in the air)
    5. Su17-type aircraft were withdrawn early (they could well have received fresh versions of the Al31 and avionics)
  27. -1
    19 July 2022 09: 26
    Another alarmist article by Skomorokhov, who, moreover, cannot distinguish the 31st from the Su-24.
  28. +5
    19 July 2022 09: 28
    Who missed the article? Although after the Su-57 from Skomorokhov I am not surprised by anything.

    Well, let's go in order. Until 2020, we ordered 2 and 32 Su-92s in 34 contracts. These contracts were fulfilled ahead of schedule, so in other years instead of the planned 16, as many as 18 cars were handed over. One plane in 2015 tumbled on landing, 2 collided. Apparently, instead of these losses, new ones were made. With the shifter, it is not clear whether they repaired it or made a new one, but there, in any case, the difference is small.

    After the fulfillment of the contracts, the need was closed from the point of view of the Ministry of Defense, but the created machines need to be capitalized, modernized, respectively, a new contract for a significantly smaller number of machines. It is possible that part of the capacity was mothballed. Obviously, nothing prevents them from running back, but the effect of this will not be until the next. years, because the production cycle of 9 months. But if the plant produced 18 cars, then I don’t see any problems giving out a dozen and a half, because the reduction in production was due to a decrease in demand.

    Now the aircraft are intensively operated. And how intensive in relation to their resource? Modern engines and fuselages can have a resource of thousands of hours (there are coefficients according to the type of use, if you twist the turns, then the wear is greater). And it's normal that an airplane, flying 200 hours a year, can work for 20 years. Even if we increase the intensity of work by 5 times, we will get that the new aircraft can plow for 4 years. Something tells me that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will run out of infantry faster than our planes. Since the declared mobilization of 1 million people is 3-4% of the population, only the USSR during the Second World War could afford such a country-military camp.

    To date, the Ukrainian side has reported the destruction of 8 Su-34 aircraft. I analyzed everything that was dumped on the Internet in the form of a victory, and I will say that the death of three Su-34s is a huge question for me personally.


    That is, even according to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, only 8 vehicles were destroyed. Only a few percent of the available park. Let's not repeat the nonsense about unsuppressed air defense and just look at the number of this very air defense. In 2013, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had 60 divisions of S-300s alone. Not batteries, divisions. And there are also "beeches", "arrows", ... The Armed Forces of Ukraine had so many air defense systems that only horns up to the legs should have remained from our Air Force. In fact, the horns and legs remained from the Ukrainian air defense. The fact that 90% of air defense has been destroyed does not eliminate the need to take precautions, but it is obvious that almost all modern aircraft that the Russian Air Force will lose in this war from enemy fire have already been lost, and a battery or two of Western air defense systems will not change anything here .

    With the Su-35S and Su-30SM, things are still worse for the Armed Forces of Ukraine and there is nothing special to show them. Apparently, their losses do not exceed 3-4 vehicles, including 1 Su-30SM destroyed by a missile at the airfield.

    And I don’t see point blank how the combat losses of aircraft can seriously affect their numbers. The industry can easily make up for them simply because after 2020, it has much less work to do. If you ask questions, so about the crews, it is much more difficult to make up for their loss.

    By the way, no one canceled the logistical charades with engines either. AL-31F, which are on the Su-34, they are also half assembled.


    I will reveal a secret to the author, but there is a big difference between the production of an electric kettle and an aircraft engine. The cost of labor itself in the production of an electric kettle is extremely small, and most of the cost will be the cost of operating the factory building, transportation. That is why it is profitable to make teapots in China and transport them from there by cheap sea transport. In the case of such a complex product as a jet engine, the cost of labor itself is prohibitive, and the fact that some parts are transported for a thousand kilometers, and the engines themselves are assembled by hundreds, not millions, has practically no effect on the cost of the final product. That is why aircraft are assembled perfectly in Siberia and the Far East, although it is absolutely unprofitable to deploy the production of consumer goods there. And no one will, for the sake of simplifying the transportation of a small number of highly complex products, transfer production facilities that are located in certain places for historical reasons.
    1. -2
      19 July 2022 12: 31
      After kilotons of all-propal whining and just stupidity, at least one sensible comment on the topic.
    2. -1
      19 July 2022 13: 11
      Quote: EvilLion
      In 2013, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had 60 divisions of S-300s alone

      )))
      Let's say this is a lie.
      1. -4
        19 July 2022 15: 14
        Let's say I refer to the wiki. Let's say this is not entirely accurate, and it was a long time ago. However, there is no reason to believe that the starting score alone did not go well beyond 100, no.
        1. +2
          19 July 2022 21: 58
          Quote: EvilLion
          However, there is no reason to believe that the starting score alone did not go well beyond 100, no.

          That is 10 divisions. To be more precise - about 20 divisions, about 250 launchers. There was no PMU, only V and PT, ancient rusty shit in a mysterious technical condition.
          1. 0
            20 July 2022 22: 36
            2013 - 38 divisions. 2016 - 250 launchers.
            1. +1
              21 July 2022 07: 43
              Do you have 6 launchers in a division or what?
      2. 0
        20 July 2022 19: 56
        In 1997 it was: the ZRV included 160 divisions as part of various air defense systems and air defense systems. Namely: 26 S-200 divisions, 43 S-300P divisions, 19 S-75M divisions, 12 S-125M divisions, 6 S-300V divisions, 27 Krug divisions, 23 Buk-M1 divisions, 4 SAM divisions "Cube".
        1. +1
          20 July 2022 21: 49
          Grandma remembered how she was a girl.

          1.Source?
          2. What does the 97th year have to do with it?
          3. How many launchers are in your divisions?
          1. 0
            21 July 2022 21: 16
            The numbers give an idea of ​​what happened .... If you have a layout for 21-22 years of numbers in the studio.
  29. 0
    19 July 2022 09: 39
    The author has everything mixed up again - both repair work and production facilities. Serial factories repair aircraft from need - when you need to earn money and there are no orders for new cars. As for the production capacities of a serial plant, I can say from experience that they are probably not used by 50% in peacetime, because you can always use weekends and three-shift work. Very often, additional equipment and slipways are made and simply stored. It is somewhat more difficult with the workers, but this issue is also resolved if desired. A similar situation with the manufacture of systems.
    As for transferring the crew from the Su-34 to the Su-24, this is only easy in theory, but in practice there are a lot of nuances. But there is also airfield maintenance with a mass of specific equipment for each type of aircraft. So this is not a problem of one week, and not even a month.
  30. -6
    19 July 2022 09: 54
    Again, "serious" questions are posed. 1. The restoration of the USSR automatically means putting our ill-brothers with their thieving "elites" on their necks, who for 30 years have become accustomed to their internecine squabbles and lack of control.2. The desire to build up an army to infinity (hello Tukhachevsky) and then ...... we all .... 3. Are the boys fighting for Usmanov and Abramovich? And in Chechnya, other boys fought for Berezovsky with Gusinsky? Colleagues - Your business is the side, to sit in the sun and bask, along the way telling young people how to live, although your example for them is the best advertisement not to do this. what you, from the generation of defeaters, can offer to the generation of WINNERS. ???? a few ideas missing mothballs? so their ideas cannot be called, so the dirty and grumbling of unsettled pensioners. Be ashamed, it’s better to take fishing rods and go to the river for perches or to your 6 acres - water the tomatoes .....
    1. 0
      19 July 2022 12: 25
      Your reply is unreadable.

      There is a rule of paragraphs in the Russian language - the division of the vocabulary component of the text into separate blocks, to simplify the perception and separation of semantic understanding.

      Use this rule more often and you will succeed.

      ps Pay attention to my message. Separation into paragraphs according to semantic perception. And yes, remember. A paragraph can even consist of one word. But it must be written with a Capital (like this word) letter.
      1. -4
        19 July 2022 14: 11
        don't read.
        1. 0
          20 July 2022 04: 33
          I didn’t read it - I put dis. Although, perhaps, you wrote quite meaningfully and clearly.
  31. +1
    19 July 2022 10: 35
    Novel! In what miraculous way did the Su-24 turn into a MiG-31 in the photographs?
    1. -1
      19 July 2022 12: 52
      This is an evolutionary process of development of aviation technology.
  32. +1
    19 July 2022 11: 07
    Manturov. Contact Manturov. He answers all questions.
  33. +1
    19 July 2022 11: 12
    I don't think we have many SU-24Ms. And they don't have a lot of resources. Of course, there are several dozen pieces, but here it is more likely that the SU-30/35 will help with their capabilities on the ground. Purely destructive functions in the Ukrainian theater are now moderate, and can be combined. The plant named after Chkalov is certainly not the industry leader, but according to the capabilities of 18 bombers a year - and this has already happened, this is very good! Yes, there are problems, but I would not exacerbate the picture. People are working, there are results.
  34. -2
    19 July 2022 11: 36
    There is only one chance to save Russia - to put it on the brink of survival. This is done through the CBO mechanism. The USSR started from worse positions. Compared with the USSR, Russia has more historical experience in the field of management. Since the Russians have chosen such a government, there is nothing to shout "Karaul" on the march. Need to work. Most of those who shout "everything is lost" will adapt and live under any government. And what the author proposes is constructive (the position of a real citizen, not a hysterical patriot). But first it is necessary to neutralize the NATO satellite constellation, and this will immediately weaken the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by 90%. Then the road will be opened for the effective use of the SU-24.
    1. 0
      19 July 2022 12: 51
      Quote from usm5
      There is only one chance to save Russia - to put it on the brink of survival.

      "Elite" must be put over the edge.
      Experts say that at the end of the year the population of the Russian Federation will decrease by 1,5 million. And next year the process will accelerate. Is this the limit, or will it still be possible to work with statistics, to accept citizens of other states as citizenship?
      1. +1
        19 July 2022 15: 34
        Now passports are handed out left and right
      2. -1
        19 July 2022 15: 36
        And next year the process will accelerate.

        Next year, the population will increase by 5-10 million, and statistics have nothing to do with it. Russia in the year 23 will grow with the lands of Novorossia and Little Russia.
  35. exo
    +1
    19 July 2022 12: 14
    As far as I remember: aircraft and engines are being repaired by Air Force repair plants (now VKS). I myself was on one in Lugansk, in 1990. They must have all the necessary components. I don’t know if this system has been preserved or not. But, it’s unlikely that the plane will be driven to the manufacturer for repairs. The same goes for the engine.
    1. +1
      19 July 2022 18: 44
      I don’t know if this system has been preserved or not. But, it’s unlikely that the plane will be driven to the manufacturer for repairs. The same goes for the engine.
      Not preserved. Therefore, they drive to the factory-manufacturer.
  36. 0
    19 July 2022 13: 30
    [quoteBut the plane needs repair, needs maintenance, needs replacement. And there are certain fears that the Novosibirsk plant simply cannot cope with such a volume of work in the current situation] [/ quote]
    Do we have more than the Novosibirsk aircraft plant to repair the SU-34 and there is no one to do? After all, the main part of the aircraft resource is the resource of its engines. And to replace or restore engines, it is not necessary to drive the plane to Novosibirsk. We still have aircraft repair plants in the western part of Russia. Let them learn to repair and dryers. Bandera's people everywhere do not manage to assemble and restore their planes, why can't we do this.
    1. 0
      19 July 2022 15: 39
      Quote: wladimirjankov
      Let them learn to repair and dryers.

      This is not a matter of production capabilities, but of the author's desire to cling everything to manned aircraft and to move away from the practice of using new types of military equipment. Instead of the Su-34, it is much more profitable to use drones or missiles appropriate for the task (MLRS, cruise, tactical / ballistic).
  37. -1
    19 July 2022 13: 35
    And all this, both lost, and damaged, and aircraft that have used up their resources - all this must be compensated. And this is the main question of this material: will we be able to, or will “holes” appear in the near future that will plug the same Su-24M?

    I have nothing to do with aviation, but I assume that the life of an aircraft (any) consists, in my opinion, of two parts - the life of the engines, and - the airframe. The Su-34 glider, compared to the Su-24, should be more "fresh" And the engines ... . And what about the engines, have they stopped producing, or are the factories unable to cope with the supply? Then it is necessary (long overdue) to declare at least the state of the OP. Maybe, of course, it was announced ... in their offices, but this is not on the streets, on TV channels, in radio networks! I agree with the author that there is a topic that needs to be addressed. sad
    1. +2
      19 July 2022 15: 29
      Quote: Radikal
      I agree with the author that there is a topic that needs to be addressed.

      The author knows nothing and lives by old notions and concepts. All of his articles have a liberalist bias.
  38. +2
    19 July 2022 14: 00
    Will the old people go into battle again?

    What else can go? For thirty years, systematically destroying the aviation industry of the USSR - they did not fully succeed in this. To all those who scold or hate the USSR, I want to say that it was its system that made it possible to win the Great Patriotic War. Unthinkable, from the point of view of a capitalist society, the transfer of industrial enterprises to the east, and the restoration of the production of weapons for the warring army. There is a term for this - the combat stability of ... countries! What now? Who is not lazy - look on the net how many aircraft factories have been destroyed, repurposed, or demolished for construction .... The airfield network of the Air Force is generally a separate conversation. And after all, all this ... b ... ugliness has specific surnames .... sad
    1. -3
      19 July 2022 15: 20
      In 2014, the Russian aviation industry produced more combat aircraft than the American one. So stop dishonoring Vissarionych with your tantrums. I’m already silent about the fact that we now have 2 times more military aircraft factories than we need, and there is simply nothing to load them with, because the era of quickly decommissioned machines has long passed.
  39. 0
    19 July 2022 14: 06
    SU-34 and SU-24 front-line bombers and in the photographs SU-34 and high-altitude air defense interceptor MiG-31
  40. +1
    19 July 2022 14: 39
    The author somehow misses the point that Russia is now at war not so much with Ukraine as with the collective West. Accordingly, all costs must be "scattered" taking into account the fact that NATO has a budget of 1,1 trillion. $. But there are already fears that assistance to Ukraine exceeds their capabilities. Yes, and the Armed Forces of the main countries France, Germany, England, are far from being in the best condition, and given what they have already spent, their condition is unlikely to improve. And lastly, for the collective West now, enemy No. 1 is China. And Russia needs to take advantage of the current situation.
    1. -1
      19 July 2022 15: 21
      That's when NATO comes, then we will talk, but before that, we can ask you to forget this ridiculous expression "collective west." Even during the years of WWII, he was still collective that Great Britain and the USA, together with the USSR, beat the Germans. And for France, Germany has always been a greater enemy than distant Russia.
      1. +1
        19 July 2022 16: 12
        This wording is not mine, it has been around for many years, but I agree with it. Perhaps sometime England, France, Germany, Italy, etc. they were at enmity, but now they are all helping the Kuev regime together.
      2. 0
        20 July 2022 14: 25
        Z.Y. I strongly recommend that you watch an interview with the Commander-in-Chief of the Bundeswehr, General Mais on the net)))) my uncle tells terrible things - in the light of recent events and a major revision of everything available, the fascists will be able to fight on equal terms against Russia in 5-8 years, depending on funding. But, in light of the current economic situation, Uncle is overly optimistic. I think, really, about 10-15 years.
  41. 0
    19 July 2022 15: 06
    Hmmm... if we compare the number of flights in the first two weeks, and for example in the last two, then "And, in order not to cross certain boundaries, I will say that the intensity ... intense" - somehow not observed. Much less. I also speak like a fool.
  42. 0
    19 July 2022 15: 11
    In general, everything is correct. But in the absence of a queen, the cook will also go. 24s are very good as front-line ones. Yes, the comfort (characteristics) is not the same, but the functionality is still not bad. What tricks do the guys make on them. And you can on the Lada, you and Toyota don't care. But from Toyota to Lada, you need to be able to do this.
    1. +1
      19 July 2022 16: 14
      Who could ride a Zhiguli will ride anything. But on the contrary, not everyone and not always succeeds.
  43. +1
    19 July 2022 15: 12
    Why does the author stubbornly recall the Su-24, and attach the MiG-31 to the photo?
  44. -1
    19 July 2022 15: 14
    IMHO they will downvote again, they will write that they are dreams and nothing more. I think that it makes sense to make high-speed high-altitude bomber drones from part of the numerous Su-24 fleet. These are still needed, because. high-altitude non-maneuverable low-speed drones a la MQ-9 are only good against those who do not have a developed air defense system and / or fighters. Make a digital cockpit for the Su-24 and put the pilots in a large plane (for example, Coot) in a safe proximity (300-500 km), from which they will control the drone like a simulator.
    It is clear that this is a matter of several years and a lot of money. But a dozen UAV hunters will cost as much as a hundred of these.
  45. -2
    19 July 2022 15: 24
    Quote: EvilLion
    In 2014, the Russian aviation industry produced more combat aircraft than the American one. So stop dishonoring Vissarionych with your tantrums. I’m already silent about the fact that we now have 2 times more military aircraft factories than we need, and there is simply nothing to load them with, because the era of quickly decommissioned machines has long passed.

    Kid - you do not own the situation in the country, its defense complex in particular, so send your passage to yourself ... but rather dill! lol
  46. +3
    19 July 2022 15: 33
    The conclusion is obvious. We need to increase the state defense order. And since this is not for a year or 2, it is necessary to increase production capacity. It looks like after the newly built UAV factory, it's time to build a new aircraft factory. And I don’t see anything wrong with that, and besides, it is necessary to build civil aircraft - the An-24 is not eternal, it’s been scary to fly on them for a long time.
  47. 0
    19 July 2022 16: 18
    The author talks about the Su-34, and the photo uses the MiG-31. Or does the author care? ...
  48. 0
    19 July 2022 16: 51
    in general, nothing new, the reality turned out to be much more severe than the bravura reports of bureaucrats and generals.
    and to hell with him, if some conclusions were drawn from the situation, but in fact nothing changes, everything is the same again "it is necessary, we will, we must, it will come in 5-10-30 years ....."
    now it suddenly turns out, according to the Leader, that Rostec has been hanging noodles on its ears for years, but in fact "the results are modest." BUT again, nothing is heard about "who is to blame, what the money was spent on, sort it out, punish, demote, into the trenches on the front line ....."
  49. +1
    19 July 2022 17: 12
    The entire text is essentially built around one thesis: in 2021, X-boards of the Su-34 were built, therefore (hereinafter the text is a bunch of printed characters) ...
    I would like to inform the Author: in 2021, Novosibirsk assembled few aircraft, because in 2020 the RF Ministry of Defense reduced the task for them, and they "stretched out" the production of contracted aircraft ...
    Why this is done - I hope it is not necessary to explain ....
    If necessary, the plant will again quietly produce 20 boards a year ...
    Even taking into account the inflated losses during the NWO, Novosibirsk is able to maintain the number of Su-34s at a level up to the NWO ...
  50. -1
    19 July 2022 17: 16
    Quote: TermNachTER
    The author somehow misses the point that Russia is now at war not so much with Ukraine as with the collective West ....
    You repeat the agitation of officials - should they be named? I can if you ask. However, here's what I want to say - the troops of the Russian Federation - LDNR are waging a war to liberate Ukraine from fascism. But we will start to fight with the West, (if this happens) only after reaching the borders of the western border of the USSR. sad
  51. +1
    19 July 2022 17: 33
    Editor, and Mig31 in the photo - why are you scared? Or according to the principle “from afar it will pass for a Su24”? :)
    1. 0
      20 July 2022 00: 57
      to scare the enemy
  52. 0
    19 July 2022 18: 22
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: EvilLion
    In 2014, the Russian aviation industry produced more combat aircraft than the American one. So stop dishonoring Vissarionych with your tantrums. I’m already silent about the fact that we now have 2 times more military aircraft factories than we need, and there is simply nothing to load them with, because the era of quickly decommissioned machines has long passed.

    Kid - you do not own the situation in the country, its defense complex in particular, so send your passage to yourself ... but rather dill! lol

    EvilLion, you are ridiculous - you brought up accomplices? lol Once again, boy, I repeat - you simply don’t know the history of OUR country. What is your country - H.Z. . In short - fuck off little guy! lol
  53. 0
    19 July 2022 18: 40
    Why are there pictures of the MiG-25 (31) in the article about Su? The author believes that this is unimportant, the main thing is with a star and wings?
  54. -3
    19 July 2022 19: 30
    Okay, the resource is calculated in engine hours, but we won’t find fault.

    It’s not necessary to calculate the motor life, but “gram/degree/burst”...
    number of sorties/ammunition consumption/targets hit...
    not in training...
  55. -3
    19 July 2022 19: 55
    But in general I would like

    so that the author no longer writes such tongue-tied nonsense...
    not a single sentence can be done without “I would like, perhaps, maybe, to show, there is no cry that for some reason everything is much sadder, nothing can be done here, I’m not belittling at all, anything can happen, there are very big doubts”... and etc.
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  57. +1
    19 July 2022 21: 08
    We have a lot of mothballed Su-17M3, M2. There is also a Su-17M4. Quite suitable for working on the ground. M2 with simple bombs and rocket launchers, and M3 and M4 can also be missiles of the same nomenclature as the Su-24M and Su-34
    1. 0
      20 July 2022 19: 59
      Su-17s have been scrapped for a long time, there has not even been export since 1992 for lack of something flying.....
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  60. 0
    19 July 2022 22: 31
    Today another one was lost in the Kherson region, unfortunately (((
  61. -4
    19 July 2022 22: 38
    Who has been the president of the Russian Federation for the last 15-20 years?
    Maybe ask him: where are the new planes? There are tons of millionaires and billionaires and they have a lot of planes and new planes. But in the army there is no...
  62. 0
    20 July 2022 00: 54
    How the Su24 has changed in the photo is simply unrecognizable
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  64. +1
    20 July 2022 02: 26
    I should have immediately looked at whose article it was. I wasted my time halfway through reading it.
  65. 0
    20 July 2022 02: 43
    Su-35 shot down near Kherson.
    Apparently the supplied NASAMS air defense systems were driven near Nikolaev.
    Su-34 losses over the entire period are at least ten. But probably a little more than +/- 2-3 cars.
    That is, at the level of 10% of the total. This is very serious for such air defense.
  66. 0
    20 July 2022 06: 22
    Quote from AUL
    Quote: Maluck
    And the engine is usually changed at airfields and there is no need to drive anyone across the country.

    Through the "whole country" you only need to carry the engine. And with our unpretentious logistics, there are questions about this.

    Question for backfilling - What is easier to carry, an engine or an airplane???
    1. 0
      20 July 2022 11: 06
      Replacing an engine in terms of service life always coincides with the overhaul one, therefore, at the factory. The plane is under its own power there. But if there is a complaint, then there is no problem in making a replacement at the TECH, the ATI service has “replacement” engines
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  68. -1
    20 July 2022 11: 00
    interesting topic. The novel knows how to diversify. Subjectively, the North Military District perfectly demonstrated the “narrowing” of the role of military aviation in the categories of “fighters”, “bombers” and, of course, those associated with airborne operations. "Army aviation" remained at the same level. Let me emphasize that this is subjective and only based on available sources, incl. Lieutenant General, Master of Sports. By the way, logic! If in old age you can hang this badge with awards on your military jacket or shirt, then why can’t you hang, for example, the VSK badge or an excellent BP badge, which are allotted to cadets? But to the topic - The need for inventions is cunning! Now the main thing is not the aircraft, but its ability to launch a smart missile from outside the enemy’s air defense zone. I am sure that the Su 24 can do this (with the necessary modifications) no worse than the Su34. The device is from the early 70s, quite effective and needed for such an application.
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  70. 0
    20 July 2022 14: 26
    Maybe the author will find the Su-24 in Yandex and won’t wake up the Mig-31 every time for drying.
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  72. 0
    20 July 2022 21: 45
    Why is it that when the text talks about the Su24, pictures of the MiG-31 are inserted?
  73. 0
    21 July 2022 05: 38
    this plane instantly 31 will outlive this writer of the article. and there is no need for panic, you just need aviation to work, work and destroy enemies in Ukraine
  74. +1
    21 July 2022 11: 15
    commentators, 60%, are like angry, filthy women. Orgasm through one from photo moment31. What's wrong with you men? Is everything really that bad with “online life” and sexual orientation?
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  76. +1
    21 July 2022 15: 48
    The article has its own logic and if I understood everything correctly. The ending really scared me. am
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  78. 0
    22 July 2022 14: 38
    Quote: km-21
    Is it necessary to prove that the USSR and today's Russia are different countries?
    And that without the revival of a large country from Brest and Lvov to Vladivostok, we cannot survive?

    I agree!
    In terms of GDP, our Russian Federation, unfortunately, does not even reach the RSFSR.
    It is for telling the truth that you are downvoted by sectarian liberals from the fifth column.
    It’s not to the liking of “rear-wheel drive” that you can’t stop at the border of the DPR and LPR. This is their liberal “blue” dream. They are just waiting for this, so that they can sit down again in meaningless negotiations with the fascists in order to get their gesheft, like Berezovsky, in Khasavyurt.
    They (the liberals) don’t care about the president’s words; there is no one there to negotiate with.
  79. 0
    23 July 2022 16: 00
    For some reason, the author left out the military repair system. A little theory. Damage and failures are divided into operational and combat. By degree of difficulty into minor, small, medium, severe and destruction. The military repair system was structured in such a way that insignificant and minor damage was repaired in air defense and technical equipment, medium ones in VARM (military aircraft repair shops), severe ones in ARZ - aircraft repair plants of the Ministry of Defense, and not in industrial plants. In Soviet times, up to 80% of failures were eliminated by the troops. Under the Minister of Defense, the headset system was broken, and VARM was completely disbanded. As a result, it turned out that they were their own evil pinocchios. What I mean is that it is not enough to increase the production of new aircraft; it is necessary to revive the Soviet structure for military repairs. Until it's not too late. It should not be copied exactly - times are different now and the technology is more complex than the MiG-21. Most likely, the avionics will have to be sent to factories - you can’t poke the microprocessors with a soldering iron, but block replacement is still better than shipping the entire aircraft to the factory.
  80. Two
    0
    25 July 2022 07: 37
    hi Reviving what was killed in an era of timelessness is the main task!
  81. 0
    25 July 2022 18: 44
    When the country was being destroyed for 30 years by order of the owners from abroad, what result do you expect? Nowadays there is not even a vocational school where they train to become an aircraft assembler. Like many other professions. So it's all sad...
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  83. 0
    2 September 2022 18: 53
    By and large, in Khokhlostan, your Air Force is not opposed by modern Air Forces (at least for now), armed with good fighters like the F-16, F15, F18, Rafal, Typhoon or Grippen, but you are opposed mainly by air defense systems. What is needed against them is not super maneuverability and the possibility of supersonic without afterburner, but banal suppression of air defense and protection from air defense systems by electronic warfare means, or the possession of guided missiles that can be used without entering the air defense coverage area. If electronic warfare equipment, guided missiles and IR decoys are available, then you can safely use aircraft of the level of Mig-27, SU-17, Jaguar, and even A-7/A-6. That is, planes from the 70s-80s. For example, during the Iraq War, NATO used Jaguars. Which have proven themselves very well. A-7E Corsairs were also used there - they also showed excellent performance. That is, after the Iraqi Air Force was knocked out, the old attack aircraft (And the Corsair was not new at all, in 1991, this aircraft was 30+ years old) work very well. The remaining air defense systems of Iraq, thanks to the HARM and AGM65 missiles, did not pose much of a threat; they were often detected and suppressed before they shot down the plane. IR traps have proven themselves very well, counteracting Soviet and Chinese-made MANPADS. You have a similar situation now. The Hohlonedoluftwaffe has been specifically thinned out. And if you had good electronic warfare equipment, IR decoys, chaff (jammers against radar seekers), and also had plenty of air-to-surface missiles, then instead of the expensive SU-35 you could use something cheaper. Likewise, the US Air Force or the Israeli Air Force do not send F-15s to places where F-16s can be used. The problem is that you have NOTHING. or rather, something is missing - and something is either not enough - or of crappy quality. What do you NOT have?
    a) You do not have cheap aircraft other than the SU-25. You simply don’t have equivalents of the Jaguar, A-7 and SU-17 with the Mig-27. Equivalents HOK and Alpha Jet too. You completely idiotically cut up all your single-engine aircraft. They say “on one engine the plane will be able to fly away if the second one is damaged”, yeah, with the same success you can install two more wings (so that if two are shot off, two remain), install a second cockpit (if the pilot is killed, the second one will fly), something not too two engines helped yours (and everyone) survive (unless you are an A-10, which is booked at its worst). On the contrary, in percentage terms, twin-engine aircraft are not only much more expensive to maintain and operate, they simply crash more often. (As a percentage of quantity). So, you didn’t have cheap planes. But now, when (or for now) the KhokhloYa Bandera bastard has no fighters, now would be the finest hour of both the Mig-27 and Su-17, and if you had them, KFIR ovs and Mirages 3, and A-7/ A-6. But this is if you had air-to-ground missiles, modern radars and countermeasures.
    What don't you already have? air-to-ground missiles in sufficient quantities. I very often see how your Sushki - actually 4+ generation aircraft, are used like... F-100 in Vietnam. We hung bags with NURS under the wings and off we went. Is it okay that in order for your nurses to get somewhere (due to the not very high-quality engines, your nurses have lower accuracy and range than our GIDR-70) you need to enter the coverage area of ​​not only MANPADS, but also MZA? This A-7 could detect an enemy position or an air defense system there from a distance of 20+ km and make fun of either HARM or Shrike or Maverick without even getting too close. But since there are few guided missiles (and you have a clear lack of them), then this is a problem.
    What don't you already have? Electronic warfare equipment. Where are these #analogs that “turned off the electronics on an American destroyer and scared the crew” (if you believe your own media). For some reason they are not visible in this war. Khokhlo S-300s have not yet been suppressed. And no one fried their radars.
    What don't you already have? Modern IR traps. A couple of days ago I saw a video of two MANPADS flying into a Ka-52 in a row. The KA-52 shoots IR traps, but MANPADS do not respond to them. For some reason, in Iraq our traps had no problems with Soviet and Chinese MANPADS. Probably because we don’t have “effective managers” and companies know that if what they delivered doesn’t work, then the congressional commissions will have a LOT of uncomfortable questions and after that these people will no longer be “Respected”, they won’t see the next contracts as their own ears, and the company’s reputation will be destroyed.

    When the enemy has few fighters, it is quite possible to use not the newest aircraft, provided they are properly equipped. If there are sufficient quantities of electronic warfare containers and the containers themselves are modern and efficient, then they will work both bolted to the SU-17 and bolted to the SU-35. And they will work equally well. And you can safely send the cheaper SU-17 for bombing. If there are enough missiles like HARM or MAVERICK, they can be suspended under cheaper aircraft - like A-7 or A-6, and not send more expensive F-18s for bombing, except as an escort. By the way, that’s how they flew in the Gulf War. The F-18 was an escort, and the A-7 and A-6 bombed. But you DO NOT have electronic warfare equipment. Where did the “No analogue and knocked out all the electronics on the destroyer” miracle of electronic warfare go? It’s unclear.

    Your “effective managers” and “brilliant” generals left you without cheap single-engine aircraft, which would be so useful to you now (as the outdated T-62m came in handy). They left you without modern anti-radar missiles and air-to-surface missiles. Or rather, there are missiles, and they are quite good, but there are simply few of them (that’s why you use NURSs as if it were 1968 and you were fighting in Vietnam). You were left without IR traps, so you admire that the Ka-52 was shot down only by the SECOND MANPADS that hit it. In a normal Air Force, both MANPADS would have been decoyed, and nothing would have hit the helicopter at all. By the way, read the memoirs of a British Apache pilot. http://artofwar.ru/k/klimkow_o_g/apache.shtml More than once or twice it is described how IR traps led the MANPADS away from his car.

    You are now in an unenviable situation due to several “mistakes” - although I simply DO NOT BELIEVE that these were “mistakes”. When people make “mistakes” at this level, they are not “mistakes” but sabotage. a) You abandoned single-engine aircraft - which are cheaper both to produce and to operate. b) you lack modern electronic warfare and missile countermeasures (chaff and flares). c) you have a shortage of Air-to-Ground guided missiles. d) You have problems with radio electronics, night vision devices and electron-optical scanners. For example, in Iraq, our Apaches and Cobras detected MANPADS crews BEFORE entering their affected area. It is thanks to modern night vision devices. Not always of course, but often enough. There are a lot of videos of turban-headed lovers of sheep and donkeys, standing with a pipe on their shoulder and looking at the sky, completely unaware that a “gift” from an Apache or Cobra is already flying towards them. I saw a video where AN64 shot such barmalei with MANPADS from a 30mm cannon. That is, even from two to three kilometers away, Apache discovered a MANPADS crew before he was discovered himself.

    You have driven yourself into an unenviable situation. You cut up cheap planes for scrap metal, but there are few expensive ones - because your economy is... well, let's say, lower than Italy's and at the level of Brazil (except that you don't have a lot of wild abyssians in the forests). Money is limited, so your Air Force is fairly well equipped with Air-to-Air missiles (which is reasonable), while anti-radar and Air-to-Ground missiles are in short supply. Yes, but on paper. Your electronic warfare systems also did not show themselves in any way in this war. Old S-300s shoot down your newest attack systems. Your traps cannot be diverted by completely NOT NEW Stingers.

    IF you still had SU-17s or Mig-27s, you could use them by equipping them with air-to-ground missiles, electronic warfare and infrared systems, and anti-radar decoys. But you don’t have these planes, and you don’t have enough electronic warfare and decoys. AGM65 doesn’t care whether it was launched from an F-15E or an F-5E, it will still fly where it needs to go, but for this you need to have an AGM-65 and an F-5E. But you have few missile defenses, and there are no attack aircraft like the MIG-27 or A-7/A-6 at all. Therefore, you have what you have.
  84. 0
    10 September 2022 01: 30
    For example. In the USSR, in some years, 50 Il-76s were produced per year. About the same number of Tu-154. That is, the current aviation industry has never even dreamed of Soviet aircraft production programs. The current pace does not allow meeting the needs of the Air Force.
  85. The comment was deleted.

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