MLRS HIMARS: no superiority yet

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Today, a lot of media and freelancers rushed to discuss the topic of HIMARS. How advanced is this MLRS, how we are hopelessly behind the United States in development, how else the USSR reached a conceptual dead end in creating artillery systems.

I liked the opinion of one "expert", who suggested that the USSR created MLRS, the main task of which was to create a fire shaft, and the United States concentrated on creating high-precision systems that could change the situation with surgically accurate strikes.



That is - a club against a sword.

Well, yes, the same old song that they have everything highly intellectual, and we are barbarians, because we have everything from the category of “we will throw corpses”. Their rockets fly along the line and hit the spot, we have to bombard the area with hundreds of shells to get at least some effect.

Strange approach, strange thinking. Those who today praise HIMARS as weapon almost the doomsday, they are a little overplayed in amerokonnichestvo. And I dare to continue my reflections of a month ago ( M142 HIMARS and M270 in Ukraine: find and neutralize) about how far we are behind the Americans.

In fact, even those who today praise and extol HIMARS agree that the installation does not represent anything breakthrough and ultra-modern.

“In itself, from the point of view of technology, the M270 at that time did not represent something that would be an order of magnitude superior to its competitors - on the contrary, the impressive results of its combat use were dictated primarily by advanced tactics and an extremely competent concept. The installation did not have a radical superiority in range over Soviet weapons (relatively speaking, 30 km versus 20 km) - its trump card was accuracy, mobility and constant work in conjunction with reconnaissance equipment.

Actually, everything. I will not voice the author of the quote, so as not to advertise the next champion of the West.

Indeed, the main advantage that HIMARS demonstrated in Ukraine is primarily associated not with stunning breakthrough developments, but with competent application.


The fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine has a significant advantage over the Russian army in terms of the use of unmanned reconnaissance vehicles is a fact that only a fool will dispute. Ukraine has at its disposal a sufficient number of UAVs, which it tries to use as efficiently as possible. And uses. The wreckage of the Ukrainian intelligence drones, probing our air defense, were collected near Kursk, Belgorod and even Voronezh.

Getting accurate intelligence is a big step towards success. Further, the competent use of MLRS, which was expressed in the discharge of Russian air defense systems with older Uragan MLRS missiles. Then there was the strike with HIMARS missiles.

The result is the destruction of Russian military installations in Nova Kakhovka.

Here let me quote myself a month ago.

“HIMARS hits targets quite well at a distance of 5 to 70 km, but it’s hard to call the system accurate after the Afghan events. Guided projectiles - yes, but how accurate they are, we will be able to find out a little later, when 4 installations arrive in Ukraine, and if ours do not smash them on the way, then perhaps we will be able to get information about the professional suitability of this MLRS.

We've received the information, and we have to admit that, yes, HIMARS projectiles fly quite accurately. However, I would not fight in hysterics about the fact that everything is gone. Yes, the destruction of an ammunition depot by six shells is an indicator of a job well done, it is an indicator of the quality of rockets, but who said that there is something unique in this event?

This moment must be considered in volume. And how many objects and targets were destroyed by Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Tornadoes? Of course, we will never wait for data from our Ministry of Defense in this regard, therefore we have to engage in wanging of the lowest rank, but in any case, I am sure that the combat effectiveness figures for Tornadoes and Hurricanes are an order of magnitude higher than those of HIMARS.

Simply because there are more of them.


It is clear that the successful use of HIMARS is also due to the fact that the MLRS was directed clearly on the command of knowledgeable specialists. It is clear as daylight that the Ukrainian artilleryman, not taken from the Grad, so successfully put the missiles on target. I do not want to say that the Americans and the British did it (although such a scenario is quite possible), I mean that the Ukrainian artillerymen simply had to be trained by those who know how to properly and effectively use the complex.

After all, over 30 years of use (the debut of the M270 took place in 1991 in Iraq), the Americans have accumulated quite worthy experience. Both the M270 and HIMARS have been and have been used successfully. It is in combination with intelligence. Yes, in Iraq in 1991 there was no such set of reconnaissance UAVs, but there were reconnaissance groups of the MTR, which perfectly complemented the picture received from satellites and aircraft. And according to the specified coordinates, high-precision M270 projectiles flew quite successfully.

And someone, having used the experience gained in Iraq and Afghanistan, generously shared it with the Ukrainians. Agree, such a technique as a combined strike by different MLRS at different times, to distract and defuse air defense systems, has not been observed before. Until recently, all the Armed Forces did was, with maniacal persistence, they tried to break through the air defense with launches of the same “Points U” and MLRS shells. with varying degrees of efficiency.

And so - prompted and it turned out.

“So, four M270s and four M142s will end up in Ukraine. With M31A1 guided projectiles. Could such a number of MLRS have an impact on the situation at the front? There is only one answer - none.

Yes, the loss of an ammunition depot is unpleasant. Some channels in the telegram from the other side happily squealed that the Russian army had begun a shell shortage, which pretty much amused normal people. Logistics is not our strongest trump card, but I am sure that the issue of a shortage of shells will not arise soon.

I don’t want to count how many similar warehouses the pilots and rocket men have destroyed since the beginning of the NMD, but much more than the Ukrainians have. And nothing, for some reason the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not stop. And here is one warehouse - and that's it, all Russian artillery was left without shells ...

This is really funny.

“Precise strikes with guided missiles? Yes, of course, this is quite possible. Here, the highly mobile HIMARS, twice as light and faster than the M270, is capable of "sword thrusts".

It all happened, it could not have been otherwise. A high-precision corrective missile - it exists for that, in order to fly where it is necessary, and not where it will turn out.

But rushing to sing the praises of HIMARS is still too early. This, as already mentioned, is a good multiple launch rocket system that can be turned into an OTRK with good missiles, but nothing more.


Yes, there are nuances that have not been given due attention.

The first is the invisibility of the system. Yes, in the stowed position HIMARS is very difficult to distinguish from a truck, both from a satellite and from an UAV, here the hope is only for the operator's big eyes, in Ukrainian conditions FMTV is still different from KrAZ.


But since HIMARS is used mainly at night, alas, with the detection of a problem.

The second is batch reloading. It's just a flurry of rave reviews, oh, what a MLRS, 2,5 minutes - and it's ready to shoot again! And our Tornado-S needs to be charged for 20 minutes ...


And here the question arises: why then did TWO vehicles fire at Novaya Kakhovka, each of which fired three missiles? Yes, zero sense in such high-precision fire raids in quick reloading, you need to quickly launch and quickly hit the road until you arrive at the launch site!

Therefore, half of the b / c each car shot. It's simple, no one wants to take risks.

So HIMARS, having fired all 6 missiles, will not go anywhere, it will go to a reserve position, where it will change the launch container. Quiet, calm and at a considerable distance from the launch point. Because the container should not be thrown into the field, but sent to the factory, where rockets will be loaded from it again.

By the way, that one is still a headache for the commander of the MLRS. It's probably on him. But you can’t leave the container, it’s clearly a loss of property, because if everyone starts to scatter the TPK, then where can they be found?

No, of course, if we are talking about a military operation, when, in the style of the Russian army, there is heavy fire to suppress everything, such a system will be very, very good. But when it comes to point injections - sorry, but a quick reload is absolutely nothing. Shot 2-3 missiles - and that's it, run.

Yes, the use of corrected and high-precision projectiles such as the GMLRS M30, capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 70 km, increases the potential of the system, as many say, but without using the words "exceptionally accurate", "excellent" and so on.

A system capable of hitting a target at a distance of 70 km with a minimum number of projectiles. Not one, but the minimum. Less than, say, the "Hurricane" and "Smerch" will need. Perhaps the same as required by "Tornado-S".

The template by which the Armed Forces of Ukraine will continue to operate is clear: relying on intelligence data received from UAVs, from saboteurs and “moles” remaining in the occupied territory, to inflict verified strikes on army infrastructure facilities. Yes, of course, American assistants will generously supply the Armed Forces with data from their satellites and provide satellite tracking of missiles using GPS.

And this will not be a mass application (which is what some "Russian" authors expect), but a single one. HIMARS is expensive. It is very expensive, because no matter how some dream about “saturation of the Ukrainian army with M270 MLRS and HIMARS multiple launch rocket systems”, “transfer of a significant part of the installations to the command of the army as brigade-level fire weapons” and “suppression of numerically superior, but much less technologically advanced Soviet-style artillery” - it will remain in dreams.

HIMARS has been well tested in Afghanistan and Syria as a MLRS. But the Afghan Taliban and the Syrian pro-government forces are, frankly, not rivals. The practice of using it against armed formations that were not capable of repelling such strikes was being worked out.

A new stage has begun in Ukraine: actions against the army, which is armed not only with air defense, but also with counter-battery systems. And here HIMARS will have only such a method of application - "hit and run".

There are "thinkers" who argue that this method of work remains precisely the Russian artillery, despite its superiority in the number of barrels. But no, the tactic of creating superiority in certain areas cannot be reversed with multiple HIMARS installations.

Even a few dozen HIMARS will not give superiority, since they will be hunted in all directions. The installations are already used as covertly as possible, at night. If Russian intelligence is as effective as Ukrainian intelligence, then HIMARS calculations will begin to have problems of a certain nature.

And this is despite the advantage of the Armed Forces in terms of obtaining intelligence.

What will be the outcome? In principle, the same as a month ago: HIMARS must be caught and destroyed, because this is a fairly modern and combat-ready artillery system with the possibility of being used as an OTRK.

The use of HIMARS with the MGM-140 ATACMS missile is a question. For some it's a matter of time, for others it's just a matter of time. The question is whether the United States decides to transfer these missiles to Ukraine.

It's actually 50/50 here. A full combat test for tactical missiles designed to suppress air defense systems and operational-tactical units of the enemy army is a great temptation. But this is really a separate issue that only time will help to solve.

With the advent of those who believe that HIMARS is the weapon of tomorrow and the "wonder weapon", there is a great desire to object. Not because I am confident in the absolute triumph of Soviet weapons, but almost all Russian weapons are Soviet with certain modernizations in the style of modernity. The fact is that HIMARS is a good MLRS, with great capabilities, but it is good precisely within the framework of the doctrine for which it was created.

And the use of HIMARS in the first place is counter-battery firing at enemy artillery and air defense based on intelligence in the “hit and run” style. And nothing else.

For such a concept, you do not need many barrels, like the Hurricane or Tornado, six are enough, but with accurate shells. But HIMARS is not a weapon of total superiority. This is indeed a tool for delivering precision strikes, but even for such weapons systems, the rule of quantity applies.

Ten HIMARS will not be able to do anything against 30 "Tornado-S" even with better satellite intelligence. Network-centric warfare, satellites that guide missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles based on which shooting is carried out - this, of course, is tomorrow. And in that tomorrow, of course, there will be no place for the massive use of artillery. The sword will change the club. And they will fight just like that, destroying the enemy with precisely measured blows.

But it will only be tomorrow, and today the massive artillery fire, sweeping away everything in the area of ​​​​the offensive of its army, is a reality that cannot be avoided yet. Even if the United States and its allies take the risk of taking such a step as the mass transfer of the HIMARS MLRS to Ukraine, all the same, even a few dozen of these MLRS will not be able to change the course of events.

Simply because no matter how effective a single “miracle weapon”, as practice has shown, it is not able to change the course of events. Even the first use of atomic weapons, as you remember, did not bring the expected effect. Yes, the world was horrified, but Japan did not capitulate.

To expect that Bayraktars, HIMARS, Javelins will be able to bring victory to the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the confrontation that has begun is to amuse oneself with unrealizable plans. Victory is brought not only by modern weapons, the victory is brought by a complex of weapons and the ability to use them.

It should be translated: the competent use of not so modern weapons will negate the presence of single, but ultra-modern weapons systems on the other side.

Therefore, I repeat: HIMARS and M270 will not be able to exert a great influence on the events in Ukraine precisely because of their small number. However, these are serious systems, and detection and destruction of them should be one of the top priorities for the Russian army.

Unless, of course, the events of Novaya Kakhovka do not need to be repeated to fully understand the situation.
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128 comments
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  1. -1
    18 July 2022 05: 01
    This MLRS would be unique if it was impossible to resist it, and since usually - camouflage, dispersal, radio discipline, no miracles are needed. Yes, and it is destroyed in the same way as all MLRS, by catching.
    1. +17
      18 July 2022 05: 30
      Their rockets fly along the line and hit the spot, we have to throw hundreds of shells at the square in order to get at least some effect. Strange approach, strange thinking.

      It's called "superiority in the electronics industry" and no one seems to question it. Everyone is saying that something needs to be done about it.

      Ten HIMARS will not be able to do anything against 30 Tornado-S even with better satellite intelligence. Network-centric warfare, satellites that guide missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles based on which shooting is carried out - this, of course, is tomorrow. (...) But it will be only tomorrow, and today the massive artillery fire, sweeping away everything in the area of ​​​​the offensive of its army, is a reality that cannot be avoided yet.

      What they can do against it is to demolish ammunition depots, which, by definition, need a lot for a massive shelling. And for this, a smaller number of highmars is enough. And in the article, I did not see a clear objection to this thesis, except for "well, just think, they demolished the warehouses and demolished it, why bother."
      1. -6
        18 July 2022 07: 03
        Judging by the informational noise in our media, this American prodigy is capable of something, but it will not fundamentally affect the course of the NWO. With such a huge front line, a dozen Himars are more of an information weapon.
        1. +3
          18 July 2022 17: 14
          The characteristics of the MLRS "TORNADO-S" (but not the MLRS "Smerch") are superior to the HIMARS of the APU! But weapons must be able to use, otherwise it is an almost useless piece of iron with missiles in modern warfare.
          These two reactive systems themselves determine their coordinates, and knowing the coordinates of the target, they automatically aim at the target with the help of a calculator.
          But the Armed Forces of Ukraine shoot at stationary targets and the coordinates are often given to them by pi_ndos. The Armed Forces of Ukraine do not care who to shoot at and they leave immediately ....
          The Russian Armed Forces do not have time to strike at the enemy before he leaves the firing positions. The target's coordinates are received late, rechecked several times to avoid hitting civilians.
          The Russian Armed Forces can successfully fire missiles at stationary targets, which they successfully do ...
          The conditions for the use of missile systems are different and the Armed Forces of Ukraine, in this case, have an advantage ...
          Why is this happening ? Because the Russian Armed Forces do not know how to wage a modern war. The combat area should be monitored in real time 24 hours a day to a depth of 100 km, and target designation should be carried out in real time to MLRS and self-propelled guns, which are already ready to fire at positions and hit the enemy right away! Only HIMARS or self-propelled guns, the guns of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were in position, they should open fire and better with accurate shells ... In real time ...
          If such a possibility of the Russian Armed Forces? Yes, there is ... But she, the army, does not know how to do this, is not trained, there are no new organizational structures, and most importantly, there is no understanding that this needs to be done! The stupid military leadership of the country is fighting according to the patterns of the 2nd World War. And until they are replaced, nothing will happen ...
          1. -3
            21 July 2022 13: 29
            Well, yes, the Russian troops do not want to hit civilians so much that their shells will either fly into a residential building, or into a shopping center where there are people.
          2. 0
            17 August 2022 18: 05
            Do not produce fierce nonsense. Many artillery systems of Ukrainians are destroyed even when deployed in positions. Yes, and drones are not allowed to work. They themselves admit it in the reports. It’s just that they are now trying not to cluster, but work in units. That is, a battery of, for example, 12 installations is not deployed in one place, but one at a time, two guns are distributed on the ground at least half a kilometer apart, plus someone closer to the front and someone further away. Plus them ,, brilliant green ,, for disguise. Even if you have several drones in the area, then tracking all these installations will be a problem. Especially after a couple of shots or a salvo, they try to change position. No matter how quickly you detect them and transmit data to defeat your artillery, but this time and the chances of getting out of the shelling are great with such tactics. We have similar tactics and we have counter-battery systems. The article contains a lot of outdated data and, in general, to judge what and how it is probably worth being on the front line and fighting along with the artillerymen. See what equipment is already being used in this operation.
            Well, as for American installations, you won’t praise, you won’t sell. The advertisement is engine of the trade.
      2. +14
        18 July 2022 14: 36
        Quote: military_cat
        What can they do against - demolish ammunition depots

        While there were only 4 Hymars, they worked as a tactical missile system, according to the coordinates of logistics and control nodes. The task of the Ukrainian side was to determine the house on Google maps, in which the warehouse or headquarters is located, to poke a finger at this house - and the next night the Hymars covered it.

        However, the Americans, and atomic cherry writes about this in detail, these systems receive the coordinates of targets online - and then they effectively destroy moving targets. That is, the barrel and rocket artillery of the enemy. even with the overwhelming quantitative superiority of the latter. Actually, that's what the Americans invented them for.

        And the transition of the Ukrainian side to such tactics still raises questions. Still, between "next night" and "in 10 minutes" there is a gigantic work that the Americans have done long ago, but the Ukrainians have not even begun.
        1. +6
          18 July 2022 15: 03
          Quote: Negro
          And the transition of the Ukrainian side to such tactics still raises questions.

          The Polish M777A2 + M982 Excalibur, working exactly according to this tactic, is already used there and used in artillery duels. Their guidance method is the same as that of the GMLRS - by GPS, the coordinates are determined using drones.
          1. +8
            18 July 2022 15: 12
            Quote: military_cat
            Polish M777A2 + M982 Excalibur, working exactly according to this tactic, are already using

            Well, if Polish, then not 777, but AHS Krab - and they don’t seem to eat escaliburs, there is a simpler Polish SLA. It seems like only Canadians gave escaliburs and nothing at all, so there has not yet been information about their use in counter-battery combat.

            But Joe, they say, should send more - then we'll see the result.
            1. +1
              18 July 2022 15: 38
              Yes, you are right, I clarified - apparently, they are not shooting with excaliburs yet, and the M777A2, filmed in Poland, was a transit from somewhere else.

              In general, I see a video on the Internet with the work of an excalibur on Acacia, but the source is not approved by the RF Ministry of Defense, and, in general, the reliability is unclear.
      3. -8
        18 July 2022 17: 48
        Himarsy PR as INVULNERABLE MLRS, mobile and long-range, striking out of range of Russian artillery fire. This is not true, the firing range of the MLRS Tornado and Tornadoes is much greater! Hymers are a rare trophy due to their small number, they stupidly rarely hit the sights, there will be more of them, they will hit more often! But when they were puzzled, they banged soldier
        Hymers are used as special forces, yes it hurts, but can special forces stop the army? It can't, so is Hymars!
        1. -2
          21 July 2022 13: 33
          The range of Highmars with simple shells is about 300+ km. At the same time, the projectiles are accurate. While most of the RSZO RF uses NUR. As a result, it simply covers a conditional area of ​​\u100b\u100bXNUMX per XNUMX km
          1. +1
            21 July 2022 14: 12
            Absolutely wrong! tongue
            300km is a tactical missile, it is placed one on Himars and 2 on the MLRS! Ordinary missiles hit at 40km, then the dispersion is very large, but the same missile with GPS and other guidance gadgets already flies at 70km!
            Tornado really hits at 70 km with volleys, but Tornado-S (modernized Tornado) already hits at 120, and his missiles also have guidance through GLONASS + etc. Gadgets, accuracy is not worse than Himars, he can hit several targets at different distances with one volley at the same time, sending missiles with their own strike coordinates and the power of the warhead is much more powerful than that of the Yankees! good
          2. 0
            22 August 2022 11: 07
            The range of Highmars with simple shells is 40 km, not 300+. She has the same scatter with the usual 100 by 100 m
  2. +33
    18 July 2022 05: 21
    MLRS HIMARS: no superiority yet
    Well, of course, yes, we are her "one left" and "hat" ...
    But seriously, this MLRS is just one of the elements of the reconnaissance-strike complex (RUK) created in the West, which includes, in addition to it, other strike elements, air and ground, reconnaissance equipment, command posts, logistics centers. And now all together is creating big problems for us at the front. Starting from the war in the Bekaa Valley, in the 80s of the 20th century, our enemy paid great attention to the creation of many tactical reconnaissance means, in particular UAVs, which allowed him to quickly detect and defeat the identified means and equipment of the opposing side. A lot of time and effort was spent to combine all the elements of the HANDS, to work out their interaction. And we have this issue "frozen" for many years. So now we are reaping the fruits planted in the "holy nineties"
    We must learn to fight not only with these MLRS, but with every element of the RUK
    1. -7
      18 July 2022 05: 44
      Quote: svp67
      So now we are reaping the fruits planted in the "holy nineties"

      You can’t talk about this, it’s all “dumb scoop” and “Putin’s accomplices”, and the holy nineties have nothing to do with it! (Sarcasm).
    2. +7
      18 July 2022 08: 00
      Quote: svp67
      But seriously, this MLRS is just one of the elements of the reconnaissance-strike complex (RUK) created in the West, which includes, in addition to it, other strike elements, air and ground, reconnaissance equipment, command posts, logistics centers.

      The trouble is that at the moment we can only destroy the last link in the system, the strike systems. "Intelligence facilities, command posts, logistics centers." are inaccessible to us, because it is already NATO and is located outside of Ukraine. How much the effectiveness of the actions of the Ukrainians would decrease if ours shot down all these AWACS, Globals and so on. And the goals are not the most difficult.
    3. 0
      18 July 2022 15: 05
      Quote: svp67
      But seriously, this MLRS is just one of the elements of the reconnaissance-strike complex (RUK) created in the West, which includes, in addition to it, other strike elements, air and ground, reconnaissance equipment, command posts, logistics centers. And now all together is creating big problems for us at the front.

      )))
      You flatter former brothers. New weapons appear, but the army still uses the old one. So the Hymars are still nothing more than Tochka-U, which can fall not in the dacha village, but strictly in the right house. This is not even the Americans of the 91st year.
    4. 0
      18 July 2022 17: 21
      Well, yes, 22 years have already passed, and we remember the 90s.
      1. 0
        18 July 2022 19: 30
        Quote from Valio
        Well, yes, 22 years have already passed, and we remember the 90s.

        What can we do, the consequences will be felt for a long time ..
        1. +1
          18 July 2022 19: 48
          How many years did it take Stalin to industrialize?
    5. -1
      18 July 2022 17: 55
      But what about the memoirs of a mercenary who, upon returning home, said: "what if you entered into a shootout with the Russians, you only have 10 minutes before the Russian artillery covers you!"?
      And the Iskanders cover the targets, which got up to smoke, like Hymers recently.
      This means that the interaction of troops also works for us.
      1. +5
        19 July 2022 00: 17
        Quote: Eroma
        But what about the memoirs of a mercenary who, upon returning home, said: "what if you entered into a shootout with the Russians, you only have 10 minutes before the Russian artillery covers you!"?

        Apparently, this is just a lie. Does your "mercenary" live with the authors of Russian telegram channels, a Swedish family?
        1. +3
          19 July 2022 08: 38
          I have no idea how this mercenary lives, why a Swedish family? Do you have any fantasies on this topic, are you not satisfied with life? lol
          You read the comments, you just wonder, why do we get something in Ukraine at all? laughing there is no interaction between troops, Arta is antediluvian, we did not suppress air defense, the generals are stupid, the army is not ready! Why do we win then?
          1. 0
            19 July 2022 11: 11
            Quote: Eroma
            why a swedish family?

            And how else did the "war correspondents" hear what he said there "on returning home"?
            Quote: Eroma
            Why do we win then?

            Because the former fraternal people are for these 8 years prepared even worse. It seems to be obvious enough.
            1. +2
              19 July 2022 11: 53
              "How else did the "war correspondents" hear what he said there "on returning home"?": He posted a video on the network with his impressions, if you do not trust, then the question is not for the reporter, but for the mercenary himself, he was in fact in fight or not. winked
              The Armed Forces of Ukraine, as they could, have prepared for 8 years, our army does not use its full potential due to existing restrictions. If we compare the US army and the Russian army, then each has its own strengths and weaknesses, try to look at the strengths of the US army and the presence of countercapabilities of the Russian army and vice versa, you are unlikely to see the overt superiority of the United States over the Russian army and vice versa, the qualifications of command and officers will decide the outcome of the collision. Operations in Syria showed how ours and the Yankees command in comparable operations (Aleppo and Raqqa) and this comparison is not in favor of the United States. Ukraine also shows the flexibility of our command, tactics change depending on the situation, and the desired result is achieved. soldier
  3. -3
    18 July 2022 05: 27
    The fact that the warehouse was hit by a couple of missiles is, IMHO, a flaw in the support services that dumped everything in one place. Probably it would be necessary to spray boxes with BC over the areas ....
    1. +6
      18 July 2022 05: 54
      And yes. How it was all covered by our propaganda .. A warehouse with ... ammonium nitrate for agriculture exploded ...
  4. +7
    18 July 2022 06: 15
    HIMARS hits targets quite well at a distance of 5 to 70 km, but call the system accurate after the Afghan events

    What does the Afghan events have to do with it?

    The effective use of the Chimera is facilitated by two things, or rather one key one - large accumulations of materiel, the presence of warehouses and bases that are the targets of strikes. The Taliban didn't see anything like that.

    The second condition is the presence of a developed road network for the rapid movement of MLRS on wheeled chassis
    1. +4
      18 July 2022 06: 58
      Quote: Santa Fe
      large accumulations of materiel, the presence of warehouses and bases which are the targets of strikes.

      Moreover, large ammunition depots in the LDNR were created over the years in cities and were not dispersed at the beginning of the SVO. Moreover, in one of the warehouses, volunteers of the Public Organization “Young Republic” were covered with haimars.
      1. +1
        21 July 2022 11: 26
        But this is true
  5. +16
    18 July 2022 06: 24
    We've received the information, and we have to admit that, yes, HIMARS projectiles fly quite accurately. However, I would not fight in hysterics about the fact that everything is gone. Yes, the destruction of an ammunition depot by six shells is an indicator of a job well done, it is an indicator of the quality of rockets, but who said that there is something unique in this event?
    This moment must be considered in volume. And how many objects and targets were destroyed by Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Tornadoes? Of course, we will never wait for data from our Ministry of Defense in this regard, therefore we have to engage in wanging of the lowest rank, but in any case, I am sure that the combat effectiveness figures for Tornadoes and Hurricanes are an order of magnitude higher than those of HIMARS.
    Simply because there are more of them.
    If six accurate shells destroy an ammunition depot for 50 "tornadoes" and 50 "hurricanes" ... what's the use of the fact that there are more of them? Here, in general, it is necessary to raise the question of the expediency of large, capacious-sized warehouses with ammunition in the front line. Why create large-capacity warehouses in places accessible to enemy missile strikes? It is better to make several small-small warehouses ...
    1. +2
      18 July 2022 10: 34
      "Why create large, capacious warehouses in places accessible to enemy missile strikes? It is better to make several small, small warehouses ..."
      Obviously they hoped that nothing would happen, neither the Hymars, nor that they would shoot.
      1. 0
        21 July 2022 11: 30
        Well, in fact, the database zone is a swing, then up, then down, and warehouses to the Highmars sometimes took off from being covered with artillery, point-y, a tornado, I’m for ours, in April and May, I know what I’m writing about. So nothing more than a statement of fact.
    2. 0
      22 August 2022 11: 13
      Why do you think that these are large warehouses? 100 boxes in the forest belt, after 100 m another one, for one km thousand. Well, they covered one cellar, it exploded quite well, but the rest were intact and no one was hurt. Plus for the summary and all.
  6. -4
    18 July 2022 06: 34
    Quote: Maluck
    The fact that the warehouse was hit by a couple of missiles is, IMHO, a flaw in the support services that dumped everything in one place. Probably it would be necessary to spray boxes with BC over the areas ....

    Where is this information from? Warehouses are generally an unmeasured amount. It is not the first year that the relevant persons have been providing BC in this region.
  7. +14
    18 July 2022 06: 35
    Again, hatred and lies.
    The point is not the perfection of the American MLRS, but the fact that the Soviet MLRS Smerch was perfect for its time and we were stuck at that time and did nothing for 30 years, while shouting that we had weapons that had no analogues in the world, and the Americans did, and were far ahead us.
    We have a Smerch MLRS installation in a much larger caliber, we have talented missile developers, we have good UAV developments, we have money, but in fact their missiles fly 300 km and hit right on target, and our missiles fly 100 km and over areas. Why did this happen, who is to blame and what to do?
    1. +3
      18 July 2022 07: 43
      that we have weapons that have no analogues in the world, and the Americans did, and were far ahead of us.

      Do you think shouting about "having no analogues in the world" will give credibility to your opus? What time are you stuck in for 30 years? Judging by your comments, you are stuck there alone. Since our RZSO have adjustable ammunition in the form of 9M542 with a control system based on the strapdown INS CH398 from N.A. Pilyugin. These ammunition are no worse than the GMLRS M30 from Hymars

      but in fact their missiles fly 300 km and hit right on target, and our missiles fly 100 km and over areas

      you, in your natural habit of talking nonsense without even trying to figure it out, confused a ballistic missile with RZSO ammunition. In essence, ATACMS Block is a tactical ballistic missile, akin to our Iskander. Only her PU is unified with the RZSO

      Why did this happen, who is to blame and what to do?

      you personally should stop carrying these nonsense with such pathos
      1. +6
        18 July 2022 20: 24
        Do you think shouting about "having no analogues in the world" will give credibility to your opus?

        I think that you turned out to be an ordinary jerk broadcasting TV shows, but I thought that you were good at something
        Since our RZSO have adjustable ammunition in the form of 9M542 with a control system based on the strapdown INS CH398 from N.A. Pilyugin. These ammunition are no worse than the GMLRS M30 from Hymars

        Awesome statement! And how many 9M542 along with Tonado-S combat units?
        you, in your natural habit of talking nonsense, even without trying to figure it out, confused a ballistic missile with RZSO ammunition. In essence, ATACMS Block is a tactical ballistic missile, akin to our Iskander.

        Of course, you yourself are not talking nonsense, you are making amusing statements. Any MLRS ammunition, even for MLRS Grad or BM-13, is also a ballistic missile.
        You compare ATACMS with Topol-M. For reference, the launch weight of the Iskander rocket is 3800 kg, the launch weight of the ATACMS Block 1A is 1320 kg, the mass of the 9M528 unguided projectile for the Smerch MLRS is 815 kg, and which one is closer in class?
        ATACMS Block 1A is a twenty-year-old missile, approximately in the caliber of our MLRS Hurricane, and although it flies 300 km, it does not have the ability to change the flight path and powerful anti-missile defense weapons like Iskander, in fact it is an intermediate missile between Iskander and 9M542, and we have neither them nor 9M542.
        1. -2
          19 July 2022 05: 52
          I think that you turned out to be an ordinary jerk broadcasting TV shows, but I thought that you were good at something

          I stuck your face in the obosrams, and in response you have only mournful "crow, everything is gone!". Do not cry and do not whine))
          Awesome statement! And how many 9M542 along with Tonado-S combat units?

          well, let's get statistics on the number of 542x produced and their quantity stored in the GRAU warehouses. I have no doubt that I will not hear the answer
          Any MLRS ammunition, even for MLRS Grad or BM-13, is also a ballistic missile.

          I haven't met someone as stubborn as you in a long time. From the point of view of ballistics, any stone from a slingshot flies along a ballistic trajectory. If you are as crazy as you are, then an RPG grenade can be called a tactical missile. We are not discussing the mechanics of flight now (from this point of view, any ammunition that flies due to reactive power is a rocket), but we are discussing a class of ammunition. Both the Americans and we distinguish separately between ammunition for rocket launchers and separately operational-tactical missiles. For the lame in the head, the advice is to go to the LM website and read how the Americans call ATACMS. And they call her Tactical missile. Tactical missiles are a separate class of weapons. And it doesn't matter whether they have the means to break through missile defense or not. Elbrus, Tochka U, Lacrosse or MGM-52 Lance were not controllable on the flight path. But these are TACTICAL missiles
          For reference, the launch weight of the Iskander rocket is 3800 kg, the launch weight of ATACMS Block 1A is 1320 kg

          ahahaha laughing instead of puffing up in arguments, it would be worth taking in your notebook with prescriptions to write the performance characteristics of both ammunition. The Iskander has a 70% longer range, it has 2,5 more powerful HCG. Iskander still has the ability to maneuver on the trajectory, which increases the mass of ammunition due to the multi-mode seeker and controls. Greater power always carries weight with it. Logic what is heard or not?
          ATACMS Block 1A is a twenty-year-old missile, approximately in the caliber of our MLRS Uragan

          what kind of bullshit? How much in the package of ammunition of the same Hymars or installation 9K58 and how much in the ATACMS package? Did you manage to finish school or not leisure? If the Hymars package is 12 ammunition, then the ATACMS OTRK is 1 missile in the wheeled chassis version and 2 missiles in the caterpillar chassis version!
          Here is a photo of ATACMS and the M26 package. No difference?
          1. 0
            21 July 2022 13: 52
            A friend, but atakms is precisely a short-range ballistic missile, but Iskander is closer to a cruise missile. So they have a different class. I don't know if you would even read Wiki before writing. And then write hell knows what.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. -2
              25 July 2022 07: 53
              A friend, but atakms is precisely a short-range ballistic missile, but Iskander is closer to a cruise missile.

              Do not write this nonsense ever again, do not disgrace yourself. Iskander has two missiles - the first, 9M723, flies along a ballistic trajectory. The second, R-500, is a cruise missile variant.
            3. +1
              19 August 2022 19: 46
              fell under the table about "closer to the cruise missile", these are different ammunition for Iskander
        2. 0
          22 August 2022 11: 19
          Any MLRS ammunition, even for MLRS Grad or BM-13, is also a ballistic missile.
          ramzay21 well, serious people have already explained to you and asked, don’t carry ...
      2. SIT
        +10
        18 July 2022 22: 29
        Quote: Ka-52
        Since our RZSO have adjustable ammunition in the form of 9M542 with a control system based on the strapdown INS CH398 from N.A. Pilyugin. These ammunition are no worse than the GMLRS M30 from Hymars

        If there are corrective projectiles, then why is there no unified combat control system that links together the data of UAVs, GLONASS and inertial systems deployed by forces of Special Forces groups? Why do they now want to buy these UAVs in Iran (!!!!)? So soon the Zulu tribes and the Papuans of New Guinea will begin to supply us with military equipment. Maybe in the Moscow Region we need to think less about real estate and not to produce generals in skirts, but to deal directly with what they are not paid small salaries for?
        1. +2
          19 July 2022 04: 34
          Maybe in the Moscow Region we need to think less about real estate and not to produce generals in skirts, but to deal directly with what they are not paid small salaries for?

          For those who sit in comfortable chairs in the Moscow Region, as well as those who oversee the military-industrial complex and who have failed to explain something, it’s useless to put them against the wall, with confiscation of property, and appoint other people in their places and make them responsible, and this is the only effective way to make progress in our aircraft and reduce losses.
        2. -6
          19 July 2022 07: 04
          Maybe in the Moscow Region we need to think less about real estate and not to produce generals in skirts, but to deal directly with what they are not paid small salaries for?

          maybe. But why should I ask this question? Put you in the general's chair, and you'll also think about the titty secretary and your dacha in Sochi more than about the fucking UAVs laughing
          Why do they now want to buy these UAVs in Iran (!!!!)?

          Well, if my brains are not enough to answer this simple question, then I’ll tell you:
          - The military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation does not work on the principle of military mobilization. No war - no mobilization. Accordingly, the adopted State Defense Order has not changed for two years. If the war were planned (not expected, but planned), then back in 2020, it was necessary to expand the production and supply of domestic UAVs in order to reach volumes that could make up for the combat loss. Since this is not the case, you have to look for ready-made options, that is, a purchase from someone who has them. The plant in Dubna will start to reach industrial turnover only next year. Massive deliveries are expected only by the 2nd half of 2023. And UAVs are needed now. Here comes Iran. So there is no need to arrange whining and Yaroslavna's widespread crying.
          1. +1
            21 July 2022 13: 54
            Damn, again these examples in the style of "you would do the same."
            So okay, it's a patriot blown away, carry the next one
        3. 0
          22 August 2022 11: 28
          SIT, there is Orlanchik in each division, that's enough. Tornado-S also has it. There is even a drone, which is delivered to a separate RS type 9M534 in the target area. In order not to lose time on the approach, otherwise the targets are 120 km away, not to fly for an hour and a half. That's "real time" for you wink
    2. -3
      18 July 2022 07: 43
      Yes, because indeed, different tasks were set. We have suppression of manpower and equipment in a certain area, they have guaranteed destruction of point targets. With us - with the expectation of mass battles, with them - for limited operations, which is what the States have been doing all the years after the Second World War.
    3. +3
      18 July 2022 12: 22
      but in fact their missiles fly 300 km and hit right on target

      ONE rocket flies. That is, an analogue of "Iskander".
    4. +1
      21 July 2022 11: 40
      As far as I remember, the Himers version for 300 km is one single missile in the center instead of a package, and you need to compare it with Iskander, and what are ours inferior to? Tornado-s piles up with controlled charges for 200 km, the trouble is that there are only 10 tornadoes per army, well, from off-line sources.
      1. 0
        23 July 2022 10: 46
        Haymarsy is also a dozen
    5. 0
      21 July 2022 13: 41
      I'm sorry, but the UAV is just not special. As well as experience / skill / mind to apply them
      1. 0
        23 July 2022 10: 48
        Only Orlanov-10 produced 1500. No, right?
  8. -4
    18 July 2022 06: 40
    Roman now has no advantage in UAVs. This is recognized even by 404 and has been for a long time. This is generally recognized by everyone who can. Open any foreign analytics. Even the most pro-Ukrainian.
    While Ukrainian drones are becoming less effective in this new phase of the war, Russia is using just as many, if not more, of its drones, especially for reconnaissance, surveillance and reconnaissance purposes, CNA expert Bendett said.

    The Ukrainians don't have enough weapons to shoot them down, and one soldier told The Sunday Times: "We can't see the Russian drones, but they can see us. The only thing we can do is hide."
    Etc. I do not deny the fact of the mistakes made at the beginning. Moreover, I think those responsible for this should be imprisoned.
    1. +8
      18 July 2022 11: 45
      Quote: carstorm 11
      Roman now has no advantage in UAVs. This is recognized even by 404 and has been for a long time. This is generally recognized by everyone who can. Open any foreign analytics. Even the most pro-Ukrainian.
      While Ukrainian drones are becoming less effective in this new phase of the war, Russia is using just as many, if not more, of its drones, especially for reconnaissance, surveillance and reconnaissance purposes, CNA expert Bendett said.

      Parity parity, but they are still not enough. And if we take away all the commercial drones bought by volunteers, then everything will be sad. Therefore, a possible deal with Iran does not seem so impossible.
      1. +2
        18 July 2022 13: 08
        This transaction only matters in one case - quickly and a lot. Gradually, we can do it ourselves. As for purchases, I will tell you this. I know a few who, with all their desire, would not have been able to collect so much money. Moreover, they are closely guarded from the state. There is such an idea that they buy everything with state money, working as a gasket. And it is logical being under sanctions. And so of course. With tactical drones, we completely screwed up. They must be literally on every tank to have their own. In every platoon.
        1. +3
          18 July 2022 14: 38
          Quote: carstorm 11
          This transaction only matters in one case - quickly and a lot. Gradually, we can do it ourselves.

          It's unlikely to be very fast. Unless the operators will come along with the drones.
          1. -2
            18 July 2022 15: 21
            I think it's been settled a long time ago.
        2. 0
          23 July 2022 10: 52
          Drone on a tank? And who will manage?
      2. 0
        23 July 2022 10: 50
        Commercial drones - for the militia. The army has its own, that's enough.
    2. +3
      18 July 2022 18: 30
      Quote: carstorm 11
      Moreover, I think those responsible for this should be imprisoned.

      It would be necessary, but in recent years we like to repeat the slogan - we do not abandon our own! This noble call sometimes finds application, not at all for its intended purpose.
      1. 0
        18 July 2022 18: 54
        Well, at least remove it. Borisov's change is already a good sign. War in general wildly speeds up decision-making.
    3. +11
      18 July 2022 20: 35
      Roman now has no advantage in UAVs.

      Where do you get such information from? The situation with UAVs is horrendous, and if the civilian Maviks bought at the expense of not indifferent citizens somehow balanced the advantage of the Ukrainians at the battalion level, then we have a complete failure with military UAVs.
      Maviks are not military UAVs at all, but they should be in every platoon.
      There are very few eagles, and even one eagle at the brigade level is already a joy, but they should be in completely different numbers.
      We have practically no strike UAVs, and there are no strategic reconnaissance ones at all.
      1. -2
        19 July 2022 03: 45
        So. Stop. Did I say we're good? I said that we have not been worse for a long time. Learned to suppress. Deceive. Many have been destroyed. They bought something. Here is the hole removed.
  9. -8
    18 July 2022 06: 44
    [quote = Sergey Kuzmin] [quote] If six accurate shells destroy an ammunition depot for 50 "tornadoes" and 50 "hurricanes" ... what's the point of having more of them? Here, in general, it is necessary to raise the question of the expediency of large, capacious-sized warehouses with ammunition in the front line. Why create large-capacity warehouses in places accessible to enemy missile strikes? It is better to make several small, small warehouses ... [/ quote]
    Do you think no one guessed that cases of damage to warehouses are likely? The supply goes on continuously. What do you mean by capacious warehouses? And what's the point of small?
    1. +6
      18 July 2022 23: 29
      "Provision goes on continuously" ///
      ----
      Was going continuously.
      Until within a week the Hymars destroyed the largest
      ammunition depots in the Donbass and in the south.
      And two headquarters - divisions and armies - with people.
      After that, Shoigu himself came to encourage and scold.
  10. +9
    18 July 2022 06: 57
    The author is trying to prove that Himars is no better than Russian MLRS. Maybe not better. But not worse either. Is there at least something now where the Russian army has a qualitative, and not a quantitative, advantage over the Armed Forces of Ukraine? It seems that armies of equal technical capabilities are fighting.

    A quantitative advantage, in contrast to a qualitative thing, is unreliable. Today it is on one side, tomorrow it may be on the other.
    1. -8
      18 July 2022 10: 24
      Quote from Heaven
      It seems that armies of equal technical capabilities are fighting

      This feeling is created by frenzied anti-Russian propaganda and stubborn suppression of details by Russian figures of the information war.
    2. +7
      18 July 2022 11: 16
      It seems that armies of equal technical capabilities are fighting.

      It can be reformulated as follows - "they are fighting approximately equal in terms of (all in general) the capabilities of the army."
      Therefore, the bridgehead at Popasnaya expanded by 500-1000 meters per day.
      And after the capture of Lisichansk, the army of the Russian Federation and the corps of the LDNR crawl towards Seversk at a speed of 1 km per day.
      And approximate equality of opportunity means comparable losses.
      1. -3
        18 July 2022 11: 54
        They would be comparable, more precisely 1 to 3 not in favor of the allied forces, if not for a couple, but - the rate of the allied forces on artillery when breaking into the defense, assault units, by definition, do not recruit from conscripts, from the side of the Armed Forces of Ukraine the most valuable formations are taken out of the fire bags in advance .
        1. +9
          18 July 2022 12: 12
          assault units, by definition, do not recruit from conscripts

          You are off topic. Recruited including from ldnr mobikov. The losses are huge. Bloggers who actually fight on the side of the "allied" forces write about this.
          Mobs, elite marines, musicians, airborne forces - all rush into the thick of it.
          The internet is full of information.
          1. -8
            18 July 2022 12: 20
            Recruited including from ldnr mobikov. The losses are huge.

            Maybe he was
            mobilecom
            , but only in the second line.

            How things really are with the composition of the assault units - we will not be reported.
            Nowhere do they do death like in war and fishing.
            1. +9
              18 July 2022 12: 28
              but only in the second line.

              In the first
              Here are the revelations of a man who volunteered for a month
              https://leon-spb67.livejournal.com/1456573.html?utm_source=embed_post
              I will describe everything in detail, but later. Now I'm just going through the strokes. The one ... that is going on in Popasna and Rubezhnoye deserves not only a clear description, but also a clear tribunal. This is a natural utilization of the male population of the LNR. When infantry is sent to storm concrete pillboxes without artillery - except ... it cannot be called.

              This is not Murz and not Girkin. They confirm it all and put it on top.
              1. -9
                18 July 2022 12: 33
                Now you can throw these "revelations". laughing

                Tsipsoshnik?
                1. +8
                  18 July 2022 12: 34
                  There was a bang and smoke. (With)
                  Attach plantain
                  1. -8
                    18 July 2022 12: 35
                    Clear.
                    Do not be ill.
          2. +3
            18 July 2022 15: 23
            Previously, the contract was signed after a year of service, and now after three months. And I imagine how many conscripts are under pressure to sign a contract.
    3. 0
      23 July 2022 10: 55
      Qualitative advantage - for tanks and tactical missiles.
  11. +24
    18 July 2022 07: 11
    A few days ago, it was these MLRS that destroyed the headquarters of our 20th MSD and 106th Airborne Division. In the 20th Guards MSD, the division commander and chief of staff of the division were killed. That's "no superiority".
    1. +3
      18 July 2022 14: 18
      Colonel Alexei Gorobets.
      https://www.rbc.ru/society/14/07/2022/62cf4c529a7947c267275f7d
  12. +1
    18 July 2022 07: 30
    Gentlemen (comrades) experts, where are our vaunted Hyper sonic missiles ?? The very ones that have no analogues in the world, and before which the entire "conditional West" should tremble?
    Nothing has been heard about them for a long time .. maybe they weren’t there .....? recourse
    1. 0
      18 July 2022 07: 49
      No need to mix flies with cutlets
  13. -2
    18 July 2022 07: 47
    MLRS HIMARS: no superiority yet.
    . Logical, successful development of "Katyusha".
    New technologies, new opportunities.
    And yes, nimble, it drapes smartly from the launch site, appearance, from afar / from above, not unmasking.
  14. +3
    18 July 2022 07: 53
    Their rockets fly along the line and hit the spot, we have to throw hundreds of shells at the square in order to get at least some effect. Strange approach, strange thinking.

    And what is wrong? See footage of our MLRS being used. If not a hundred, then 5, or even 10 missiles are needed to hit a specific target.
  15. +4
    18 July 2022 09: 16
    If not for the supply of Western weapons, the 404th would have already been crushed. Even taking into account the fact that there is a transfer of intelligence and target designation data to them by NATO. The weapon flows like a river and it keeps the ukrovermacht afloat. Right now, Ukrainian pilots are retraining on the F-16, and we will see them soon. Therefore, the task of crushing them before the end of the year is completely relevant. Until this hydra grows new heads...
  16. +9
    18 July 2022 09: 58
    “So, four M270s and four M142s will end up in Ukraine. With M31A1 guided projectiles. Could such a number of MLRS have an impact on the situation at the front? There is only one answer - none.

    They may not have an impact, but they made a rustle in a couple of weeks more than any rib... It seems to me that the Americans simply decided to test the effectiveness of the use of their RUK against a more or less modern army (compared to Syria or Afghanistan, that's for sure), therefore, they allocated only a division for this, maybe even with their "vacationers". Unfortunately, the check for them was successful, losing several installations of damage, they caused many times more. Now the question is, and if there are not a dozen of them, but 500-600 or 1000, then how, with such our "air superiority", that the FA and AA work from their territory by nose-up and such a level of technical intelligence will we resist them? This amount is enough to take out all the warehouses and control points from the regiment and above on the entire theater. Now I’m not talking about Ukraine specifically, but more about the confrontation with NATO (I heard about nuclear weapons, I know, an accuracy of 1-5 meters is not important there), but even 200-300 installations in Ukraine can turn everything upside down
  17. +18
    18 July 2022 10: 02
    This morning, minus two warehouses, there are a lot of videos of detonation in the telegram, over the past two weeks, more than 15 warehouses have been destroyed by chemars, and in the deep rear, this hatred nonsense is already starting to annoy.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. +7
    18 July 2022 10: 37
    “HIMARS hits targets quite well at a distance of 5 to 70 km, but it’s hard to call the system accurate after the Afghan events. Guided projectiles - yes, but how accurate they are, we will be able to find out a little later, when 4 installations arrive in Ukraine, and if ours do not smash them on the way, then perhaps we will be able to get information about the professional suitability of this MLRS.



    This is a good example of MLRS. In calibers 220-300 mm, 6 missiles with accurate hits, this is a replacement for battery operation. And you need to take into account that different calibers are available and that a satellite-guided BR is quite "Cheap" .... and in this case, a rocket with a caliber of 220mm replaces a rather large Tochka-U rocket (and there are 6 of them at once on launchers) and not for all targets you need a complex BR like Iskander.
  20. +12
    18 July 2022 12: 59
    Another hat-tossing complacency. In fact, Western technologies for reconnaissance, target designation and communications (satellites, UAVs, drills, etc.) + long-range precision weapons = an almost insoluble problem for the Russian Armed Forces based on outdated Soviet technologies. Only a few of the first Hymars have already sent about 20 weapons depots and several headquarters into the air. And that's even without rep! And the United States has hundreds of such systems and, according to some reports, 40000 guided missiles for them.
    Separately, I was pleased with "30 tornadoes, with better than one highmars." Yeah, those tornadoes of which there are 20 in total, I remember)
    But there are new highmars ahead, and missiles with a range of 300 km to them, and, if necessary, serious drones such as reapers / traitors, and f-15 / f-16 for which Ukrainian pilots are already being trained .. The Russian army has long been using all its potential, only mobilization and nuclear weapons remained.
  21. 0
    18 July 2022 13: 12
    Of course, HIMARS are good, how much is the question. I hope, in any case, the SVO will serve as a good kick in the convex part of the back for both our designers and high commanders.
  22. +10
    18 July 2022 13: 39
    MLRS HIMARS: no superiority yet

    There is superiority.
    There are both manual guidance and automatic. It is enough to drive in the coordinates and the guide itself will perform the guidance.
    Easily replaceable rocket packs.
    Actually, the missiles themselves are guided, high-precision. Where it will be necessary to dig up the ground with a dozen Tornadoes, one Hymars will suffice. "Hymars" does not need to dig up entire squares, he will send a rocket right on target. Officers of the 20th motorized rifle division were killed with such a rocket.
    In general terms, there is no superiority, but purely in terms of MLRS in a tactical niche - there is.
  23. -4
    18 July 2022 14: 10
    And in that tomorrow, of course, there will be no place for the massive use of artillery


    Yes Yes. The goal is infantry in the forest, each soldier has a "red field" and a kamikaze drone.
    1. 0
      23 July 2022 11: 06
      The battery, even though the Hymars, is also a flat target. No one will shoot her car after car controlled. No time. Yes, and there are not so many managed.
  24. -7
    18 July 2022 14: 30
    Ukrainian UAVs do not have any significant advantages, and their number has been significantly reduced. Success is achieved through satellite and RTR intelligence, as well as the Starlink data transmission system. Which allows you to work, almost in the "online" mode.
  25. +7
    18 July 2022 14: 39
    In this case, it is generally strange to compare HIMARS and our various MLRS. They have similarities in the principle of operation (jet thrust) and the package of trunks. But they are applied in completely different ways.
    On our part, defeating area targets with a large amount of ammunition in the shortest period of time, which corresponds to the MLRS principle.
    HIMARS, in fact, is used as a high-precision short-range OTRK. Due to the rather small warhead of one missile and in order to overcome air defense, a salvo launch is carried out to ensure that the target is hit.
    Yes, HIMARS has cluster munitions in its nomenclature, including those with homing HEAT submunitions. There is ammunition for remote mining of the area with both anti-tank and anti-personnel mines, but nothing is heard about their use. Maybe for now...
  26. +7
    18 July 2022 14: 54
    And here the question arises: why then did TWO vehicles fire at Novaya Kakhovka, each of which fired three missiles? Yes, zero sense in such high-precision fire raids in quick reloading, you need to quickly launch and quickly hit the road until you arrive at the launch site!

    Rather, the reason is something else. We calculated the outfit of forces to hit a target of six missiles. They smashed the launch points to overcome the air defense in a salvo. Could and one six to shoot back. How many seconds does she need for three launches?
  27. +8
    18 July 2022 15: 23
    The question must be posed primarily in the logistical plane. Large warehouses of ammo are not from a good life, but because of the need to spend up to 20 thousand shells per day during the SVO. To destroy a target such as a stronghold, several hundred conventional shells and MLRS missiles are spent instead of spending several units of high-precision ones.
    Large artillery depots proved to be an easy target for Western high-precision and long-range artillery weapons. They are difficult to disguise (heavy traffic of army trucks goes to and from them), they are weakly protected (because premises not intended for storage of ammunition with weak fortification are used), they are low-mobile due to their volume.
    It is quite difficult to move them away from the front line and disperse them, because. the complexity of the logistic TD task increases sharply, which cannot be solved without automation tools (has anyone heard of an army logistic automated control system?)
    This once again raises the question of the need to increase the share of high-precision weapons and the development of appropriate KRUS means to ensure target designation. The Americans, for example, now buy only high-precision missiles for MLRS and HIMARS.
    And another very important point is to set the industry the task of saturating the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with cheap technological and mass WTO, instead of single samples of analogues
    1. -5
      18 July 2022 17: 11
      set the industry the task of saturating the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with cheap technological and mass-produced WTO, instead of single samples of analogues

      The cheapest and most mass-produced product is a hail rocket ....
    2. 0
      23 July 2022 11: 10
      Please tell us how the "stronghold" is destroyed by "several high-precision units" ?? laughing laughing recourse fool
      1. 0
        25 July 2022 08: 58
        Watch Azerbaijani videos from the war in Karabakh, it clearly shows how dugouts and manpower in the trenches are destroyed
        1. 0
          26 July 2022 11: 43
          And how many of their dugouts are in one strong point? wink How long will you destroy?
  28. +7
    18 July 2022 16: 36
    I’m wildly sorry .. but in my opinion the author somewhat underestimates the importance of several factors ... namely intelligence, accuracy and inadequacy of command .. you don’t have to go far for an example .. this is the Black Sea Fleet. Ukraine does not have its own navy in principle ... What about our losses? Horror ... when a couple of missile strikes led to catastrophic consequences ... It's still good that two large landing ships managed to escape from the Saratov large landing ship .. and it did not detonate ... otherwise there was every chance of losing 3 large landing ships for one Tochka U missile .. Where is air defense? Where is the minimum competent placement of the BDK? And Moscow with two holes in the side ... Karakuts ..
  29. -3
    18 July 2022 17: 02
    Real approach. Thank you!
  30. -3
    18 July 2022 17: 09
    such a technique as a combined strike by different MLRS at different times, to distract and defuse air defense systems, has not been observed before

    Judging by the number and locations of downed aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the days when the new MLRS were used, their use is a whole military operation with reconnaissance, additional reconnaissance, distraction, placement of decoys, cover, radio games, electronic warfare, retreat ....
    If you use these complexes in this way, then the result - the destruction of the warehouse - is guaranteed ...
    But if at the same time a plane or a pair of expensive UAVs is lost, or several armored vehicles with a hundred soldiers are destroyed, then the effectiveness will be rather controversial ....
    Considering that it is easier to detect the planned use of such complexes by a bunch of accompanying signs than a one-time "partisanship", our staff officers will accumulate the necessary experience in the fight ....
    And if the Armed Forces of Ukraine use new weapons as they used to use point-y or hurricanes, then they will also be discovered and flipped over time ....
    In addition, after gaining air supremacy, ours relaxed somewhat in terms of camouflage, logistics, and in general - for example, "dispersal", basing, and so on ....
    As for the bastards, I want to remind you that the Armed Forces of Ukraine received more than 1.200 strikes in 24/7 mode only with high-precision sea, air and ground-based missiles .... I do not consider long-range cannon and rocket artillery strikes, aviation unguided munitions, etc...
    As we can see, in Kyiv, at the same time, no one is waving the "white flag" and no captivity is observed at the positions of the herd fleeing to surrender ....
  31. +5
    18 July 2022 17: 39
    In fact, even those who today praise and extol HIMARS agree that the installation does not represent anything breakthrough and ultra-modern.
    Strangely, with their small number, a certain effect from the use has already been achieved, and those of our military personnel who are "there" are hardly so optimistic. And if we take into account the increase in supplies?
    And how many objects and targets were destroyed by Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Tornadoes? Of course, we will never wait for data from our Ministry of Defense in this regard, therefore we have to engage in wanging of the lowest rank, but in any case, I am sure that the combat effectiveness figures for Tornadoes and Hurricanes are an order of magnitude higher than those of HIMARS.
    belay
    Simply because no matter how effective a single “wonder weapon” is, as practice has shown, it is not able to change the course of events.
    This is certainly true, but one cannot ignore the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being saturated not only with the indicated MLRS, but also with high-precision artillery systems, as well as seemingly already air defense systems. The delivery of American aircraft is just around the corner, and all this together seriously complicates the situation ...
  32. -3
    18 July 2022 18: 32
    The use of weapons in a "special war" gives a very rough idea of ​​how much use they will have in a war.

    It is worth thinking seriously about T34, IS2 and IL2 in deep reserve, by analogy with locomotives for logistics. It may happen that it is piston aviation and "primitive" technology without "numbers" that will complete the last world war ...
  33. -1
    18 July 2022 19: 47
    We will hunt and destroy them one by one
  34. +11
    18 July 2022 20: 52
    The author has a difficult internal struggle ...
    On the one hand, he cannot but admit that
    Himars is an excellent modern precision weapon.
    And on the other hand: "nothing special", "no effect on the course
    hostilities" smile
  35. 0
    18 July 2022 21: 16
    Vulnerable point of "Chimera" is the satellite GPS guidance system. The conclusion is to clog GPS communication channels in Ukraine with interference. Secondly, satellite data is obtained from the Starlink system owned by Elon Musk. Therefore, it is private, and not "state type" and the impact on it is not a "casus belli" and the reason for the screeching about aggression against the United States! The conclusion is to ruin these satellites with a laser and electromagnetic radiation. Then the Chimeras will shrink!
    1. +6
      19 July 2022 00: 29
      Quote: Vicontas
      The conclusion is to clog GPS communication channels in Ukraine with interference.

      It's impossible. It is possible to interrupt the signal directly at the protected object, but the bourgeoisie, dogs, have long guessed about this and if the GPS fails, the projectile switches to inertial guidance.
      Quote: Vicontas
      Second, satellite data is received from the Starlink system.

      Hymars starlink unnecessarily, Hymars was invented 30 years earlier. He receives his GPS coordinates and targets through a regular GPS tracker.
      Quote: Vicontas
      Conclusion - to ruin these satellites with a laser and electromagnetic radiation

      You will be very surprised, but the Russian Federation does not know how to do anything like that. And yet no one knows how.
      Quote: Vicontas
      Then the Chimeras will shrink!

      )))
      Excluded.
  36. -7
    18 July 2022 22: 25
    Only one question, this Tanovskaya installation, became famous for destroying the civilian population of the former Ukraine. What are their successes against the regular army of the Russian Federation? (((
    1. 0
      19 July 2022 00: 30
      Quote: Sergey39
      What are their successes against the regular army of the Russian Federation? (((

      Judging by the statements of the Russian Defense Ministry, there have been no casualties since March. So the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not care.
  37. -1
    19 July 2022 05: 25
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "Provision goes on continuously" ///
    ----
    Was going continuously.
    Until within a week the Hymars destroyed the largest
    ammunition depots in the Donbass and in the south.
    And two headquarters - divisions and armies - with people.
    After that, Shoigu himself came to encourage and scold.

    It is GOING continuously. Tired of waiting until "SHLO". Write about what you don't know. You are too far away from the scene. Where is Israel, and where is the Donbass.
  38. +1
    19 July 2022 22: 33
    Further, the competent use of MLRS, which was expressed in the discharge of Russian air defense systems with older Uragan MLRS missiles. Then there was the strike with HIMARS missiles.

    And where, in fact, is the "Mercury" complex?
  39. 0
    22 July 2022 19: 53
    ..But the Afghan Taliban and the Syrian pro-government forces are, frankly, not rivals. The practice of using it against armed formations that were not capable of repelling such strikes was being worked out.

    The commander of the US Army Corps not so long ago in Kabul jumped on the C-17 ramp on the move - he was in such a hurry.
  40. +1
    23 July 2022 06: 52
    I’ll add to the article on my own: in Afghanistan, the Yankees had superiority everywhere, the result is known. It’s not weapons that fight, soldiers fight! Without outside help, on their own, the United States has not won a single war they started. For our MLRS with a caliber of 220mm and above, high-precision satellite-guided ammunition is produced. Certainly no worse than Himars. And it is used. But it’s not interesting to write about it, not the same effect. Although the information on these missiles of ours has been in the public domain for a long time. Now there are rumors about the development of cheaper options for smaller calibers.
  41. kig
    +1
    23 July 2022 07: 51
    It's time to prepare articles about how Leopards, F15 and F16, air defense systems and anti-tank systems, and indeed all APUs, will not be able to influence anything.
  42. +1
    23 July 2022 10: 28
    On the one hand, the Russian Federation has "very bad intelligence", on the other hand, only 2-3 shots and Hymars needs to run - they found out in seconds!? How to understand ?
  43. 0
    23 July 2022 12: 19
    Some new Moscow newspeak - "wang". Ugh. They don't say that in Russia.
  44. 0
    23 July 2022 22: 19
    Quote: Ka-52
    I think that you turned out to be an ordinary jerk broadcasting TV shows, but I thought that you were good at something

    I stuck your face in the obosrams, and in response you have only mournful "crow, everything is gone!". Do not cry and do not whine))
    Awesome statement! And how many 9M542 along with Tonado-S combat units?

    well, let's get statistics on the number of 542x produced and their quantity stored in the GRAU warehouses. I have no doubt that I will not hear the answer
    Any MLRS ammunition, even for MLRS Grad or BM-13, is also a ballistic missile.

    I haven't met someone as stubborn as you in a long time. From the point of view of ballistics, any stone from a slingshot flies along a ballistic trajectory. If you are as crazy as you are, then an RPG grenade can be called a tactical missile. We are not discussing the mechanics of flight now (from this point of view, any ammunition that flies due to reactive power is a rocket), but we are discussing a class of ammunition. Both the Americans and we distinguish separately between ammunition for rocket launchers and separately operational-tactical missiles. For the lame in the head, the advice is to go to the LM website and read how the Americans call ATACMS. And they call her Tactical missile. Tactical missiles are a separate class of weapons. And it doesn't matter whether they have the means to break through missile defense or not. Elbrus, Tochka U, Lacrosse or MGM-52 Lance were not controllable on the flight path. But these are TACTICAL missiles
    For reference, the launch weight of the Iskander rocket is 3800 kg, the launch weight of ATACMS Block 1A is 1320 kg

    ahahaha laughing instead of puffing up in arguments, it would be worth taking in your notebook with prescriptions to write the performance characteristics of both ammunition. The Iskander has a 70% longer range, it has 2,5 more powerful HCG. Iskander still has the ability to maneuver on the trajectory, which increases the mass of ammunition due to the multi-mode seeker and controls. Greater power always carries weight with it. Logic what is heard or not?
    ATACMS Block 1A is a twenty-year-old missile, approximately in the caliber of our MLRS Uragan

    what kind of bullshit? How much in the package of ammunition of the same Hymars or installation 9K58 and how much in the ATACMS package? Did you manage to finish school or not leisure? If the Hymars package is 12 ammunition, then the ATACMS OTRK is 1 missile in the wheeled chassis version and 2 missiles in the caterpillar chassis version!
    Here is a photo of ATACMS and the M26 package. No difference?

    Plus
  45. +1
    25 July 2022 20: 08
    Gentlemen, the technical characteristics of a weapon are of course important, but understand that the technical characteristics themselves are of course important, but much, by an order of magnitude, more important is how the weapon is built into the system of interaction with other weapons. One of the troubles of the Russian army is that we never understood and never understood that everything is decided by communications, intelligence and logistics. Even if there is a tenfold superiority in numbers and higher technical characteristics of weapons, if you have poor communications and logistics, then you will be smashed into the trash. Examples - 1941 and "Desert Storm"
  46. 0
    22 August 2022 10: 57
    Accuracy must be compared with the corresponding Tornado-S projectiles. Volley weight, rate of fire, mass character, loading speed - the usual Hurricane. And then you can't talk about any superiority.
  47. 0
    12 September 2022 11: 22
    Discussion of military equipment and military potential is good
    But the main thing today is the use of information, and in this regard, the image of the Russian army after recent events is falling sharply, and the image of the entire state apparatus is one small step away.
    Now they will dare to say that there is no place for negotiations, others will begin to dream of a change of power .....
    1 their success)) 100 of ours
    We don't need a regrouping of forces
    A reassessment of the entire strategy. sober
  48. 0
    25 September 2022 19: 38
    Okay, the Hymers are too unpopular, they don't really play a role. And what other weapons can the West supply to Ukraine, nothing more than the already known? And what other systems can we use, besides those already used?
  49. 0
    3 October 2022 13: 25
    Nothing prevents us from having such a MLRS, but in fact a small-sized tactical missile system. Inertial navigation (which Smerch already has) with satellite correction in each Uranan and Smerch rocket - that's Himars for you. The tornado will be even more powerful. Who needs it....
  50. 0
    4 October 2022 11: 48
    In my opinion, any long-range receiver or jet system is only as effective as reconnaissance equipment. All the intelligence of the NATO bloc is working on the APU. I wouldn’t be surprised if intelligence data comes to artillery units continuously, once every few seconds. Why be surprised when shells and missiles fall right on target?

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