Military Review

Education development program is a shame of the country

Education development program is a shame of the countryThe fact that Medvedev discussed today is an empty and simply poorly written document, says the expert.

Government discussion on the topic of Russian education is inevitably attractive. Every time you witness some interesting discovery. Here and the next discussion of the concept of development for the next few years, such an important industry was no exception. Fresh news from Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev: it turns out that Russia spends on education no less than on the army.

Let us rejoice in our teachers (or sympathize with the military), but still leave this thesis on the conscience of its author and those assistants who have unknown places dug up the corresponding figures. In fact, during the discussion in the government, the improvement of the “driver of the country's development” (education, I mean) from Dmitry Anatolyevich besides the stupidities sounded really good, correct maxims. Thus, presenting the strategy, Mr. Medvedev noted the fundamental importance of the emphasis on the development of the country's mathematical education, especially since, as the Prime Minister noted, this branch of knowledge in our country is developed and “it needs to be preserved”.

The thesis of the importance of strengthening the mathematical component in education seems indisputable, although it sounds wildly for a country that has already conquered space for a long time, and whose universities still, for all imaginable and unimaginable obstacles, are trained by strong technical personnel who like to fly to leading world IT companies . That is, the mathematical sciences had once (and not so long ago) been excellently developed in our area, the fuse was enough even to this day. True, now we are striving to revive the former technical glory, so to speak, “catch up and overtake” not only America, but once no Singapore at all. And for this, Dmitry Anatolyevich noted, “it’s important that schools and universities prepare our young people for work in competitive conditions, help them to open up their abilities and initiative”. The development of competition in the framework of the educational process, namely an increase in the number of various kinds of Olympiads and competitions, will also help. The idea, admittedly, is beautiful, but up to now it has been seen as something very painfully taken for granted, in order to voice it once again to stupid people. Putin had not slept for that night, selecting his friend's subordinates so that he would give them truisms for revelation.

Medvedev’s “revolutionary” proposals for improving the quality of education in a conversation with a KM.RU columnist were commented by Alexander Abramov, director of the Moscow Institute for the Development of Educational Systems, advisor to the general director of the publishing house Prosveshchenie, Candidate of Pedagogical Sciences, corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Education:

- Medvedev urged to strengthen the teaching of mathematical disciplines. Did this statement inspire you?

- The very fact of such a statement is strange, since it concerns some very local things. Well, who will argue with the need to develop mathematical education and competition? Does anyone oppose? But, you see, there is a discussion of the state program for the development of education in the country for 8 years, that is, we have a program document. Consequently, it would be necessary to argue and speak already about conceptual solutions.

I got acquainted with this program. It is an insanely long, empty, and simply poorly written document, with about 300 pages in it. There are no conceptual ideas of development, it is just a bureaucratic paper. I will give just one example, in my opinion, absolutely deadly. The document contains six integral criteria for the effectiveness of education, five of which are quantitative (population coverage by education, the proportion of various groups, and so on) and only one criterion is qualitative, but it is absolutely fantastic. A new unit for measuring the quality of education in schools is introduced - the so-called decile coefficient, calculated from the ratio of the average score on the Unified State Exam in 10% of the best schools to the average score on the Unified State Exam in 10% of weak schools. This measurement, by definition, is absolutely meaningless, it does not characterize anything, while it has not yet been definitively defined how to calculate this coefficient correctly.

At the same time, the Minister Livanov recently stated that the current situation with the effectiveness of education in the country is on average bad, since the decile coefficient is equal to 1,86. I don’t know how they calculated it, but one of the directions of the program is this: by 2018, we will have great success, the ratio will decrease to 1,7, and in 2020, to 1,5. First, it is highly doubtful to evaluate the quality of education with an accuracy of hundredths and tenths. And secondly, it is necessary to decide on the elementary - “what is good and what is bad.” If we say that everyone should just be “equalized”, then the coefficient should become absolutely perfect, especially if everyone has high points. But the 2 coefficient can also be a good indicator, because it would mean that 10% of the best students are direct candidates for the future scientific elite. You can argue here endlessly, but one thing is unclear: how could such nonsense be laid in the state program for the development of education ?!

- Medvedev proposed another quality assessment criterion: the top five of our leading universities should be on the list of the hundred of the world's best ...

- This criterion is at least meaningful, but another question is how it is achievable in our conditions. This is a big problem, because so far there is not even a state strategy on how to achieve this. In the end, I am even ready to believe that with colossal efforts this task can be solved, but the problem still lies much deeper. Our entire high school is in hell with what condition, and correcting this situation is a much more difficult task. But, again, no reasonable way to solve it is proposed. So I think that the emergence of such a program — surprisingly unprofessional and unable to improve the situation — is simply a shame. This is evidence that our system of preparing important state decisions has collapsed.

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  1. Border k
    Border k 12 October 2012 11: 35
    Teaching light?
    1. fern
      fern 12 October 2012 11: 59
      But many young people don't think so now. Again, I assume that the problem is deeper. In education. Many schoolchildren and students simply do not want to learn anything. Laziness .... Excuses like: "Parents are forcing" "Anyway, then they won't hire anywhere" Or you ask the students "Why did you come to university if you don't do anything?" The answer is "to get married"
      And the few who are engaged in, in whose eyes you see the desire to acquire knowledge, they really acquire them and achieve very good results, despite all the shortcomings of the education system.
      1. mongoose
        mongoose 12 October 2012 12: 13
        By the way, it's time to divide education, for those who really need it and for the rest
        1. fern
          fern 12 October 2012 12: 21
          And the latter, unfortunately, will be more
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 12 October 2012 14: 21
            Let less be better!
        2. crazyrom
          crazyrom 12 October 2012 18: 16
          Quote: mongoose
          By the way, it's time to divide education, for those who really need it and for the rest

          The fact is that everyone needs it, but not everyone is aware of it. Many adults remain at the level of children who do not want to go to school, they just have to hang around. If the chip is closed for repairs, it is a holiday. These must be taught by force, then they will understand how well they learned, but for now ...
        3. starshina78
          starshina78 12 October 2012 19: 41
          Mongoose! For the first time I agree with you! Learning in one class those who study and those who are serving time at school is harmful for those who study. An example of this is before my eyes, so to speak. My granddaughters study almost perfectly (one has two fours and the other has three), there is a desire to learn and gain knowledge (we pay extra classes), but because of the backward students the teacher has a hard time because she cannot pay more attention to the excellent students, she has to return to the topic several times, and explain it to the laggards. It's time in schools to create classes that are strong and so-so. By the way, in the sixties, such an experiment was conducted in our school. He showed that it was useful for excellent students and for losers. The teacher could plan the learning process based on the knowledge of the students.
      2. Joker
        Joker 12 October 2012 12: 59
        No, that's not what they say now, but why study if you still get a job on an acquaintance, or why strain, you can still "break" the exams.
    2. V. Salama
      V. Salama 12 October 2012 13: 49
      Quote: Border K
      Teaching light?

      Teaching is light! And ignorance is a little light and to work.

      In a civilized society, a person is called upon to facilitate his necessary work in every way. "Increasing labor productivity", which is what our rulers dream of so much and their singers are not talking about it, is the goal of management, which should be achieved not by "increasing the intensity, intensity and duration of labor", but by its scientific organization, personnel development, technical equipment of the process production and implementation of advanced technologies, as a minimum.
      And this requires an educated people and competent and honest managers, which is unattainable in the current situation in principle.
    3. Sasha 19871987
      Sasha 19871987 12 October 2012 13: 53
      the teaching is light, only you need to wipe the bulbs regularly ... the Soviet school is popular everywhere .... but the Russian one is not quoted and generally the same is nonsense, because I wrote it myself, to be honest, I always knew physics poorly ege managed to write for 67 points, this is around 4 or 5 points, although, in fact, he knew the subject for 3 with a strain .... our sovereigns forgot that from school and kindergarten + parenting and society is being formed
      1. thatupac
        thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 20
        But the USE increases the chances of enrolling in some kind of weak university, and I don’t care about knowledge, because the main thing is to do it. And we’ll break through there already ...
      2. PSih2097
        PSih2097 12 October 2012 19: 04
        but he managed to write an exam on 67 points, this is in the region of 4 or 5 points, although, in fact, he knew the subject by 3 with a strain ....

        It’s not five or even four, it’s a solid three ...
        1. fern
          fern 12 October 2012 22: 59
          If memory serves me right, then 4 with 65 points began. I don’t remember exactly
  2. baltika-18
    baltika-18 12 October 2012 11: 36
    The next pearls of Medvedev. I doubt the adequacy of this subject. Another "decile coefficient", well at least not moronic, although consonant. Although I have not read the program and probably will not read it, I agree with the opinion of a specialist.
    1. Pinochet000
      Pinochet000 12 October 2012 11: 50
      Quote: baltika-18
      well at least not moronic

      laughing also read it the first time.
    2. mongoose
      mongoose 12 October 2012 12: 14
      n-dya, are you sure of your own adequacy? can describe your social portrait? age? education? life experience?
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 12 October 2012 16: 25
        Quote: mongoose
        Are you sure of your own adequacy? can describe your social portrait? age? education? life experience?

        They asked, I’ll answer. There is nothing to hide. 47 years, a higher, mechanical engineer, urgent in the border troops, senior lieutenant of the reserve, work experience for 23 years, at this stage an individual entrepreneur, worked 12 years in Siberia, now in the middle zone of Russia. I adhere to a socialist orientation, I believe that the combination of state ownership in strategic sectors of the economy with private medium and small production, and the presence of strategic state planning will be an ideal economic model.
    3. Ross
      Ross 12 October 2012 12: 23
      Regular pearls and probably not the last. Read an interview with his classmates on the Internet.
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 October 2012 12: 36
      Quote: baltika-18

      Regular Medvedev pearls

      Well, everyone understands that the education system just sucks and now I urgently need to make a statement. Then there will be a new reform and they’ll come up with some kind of garbage, I’m afraid the USE will seem like a good exam in comparison with what they come up with now
  3. Aventurinka
    Aventurinka 12 October 2012 11: 38
    It is difficult to judge without reading the document itself, according to one opinion. I hope that a little more detailed analysis will be a bit later.
    А "average temperature in the hospital" this is the main method of analyzing the situation of our officials (on the issue of a numerical assessment of the quality of education).
    1. atesterev
      atesterev 12 October 2012 12: 13
      How long does it take to read a 300-page document?
      1. cerber
        cerber 12 October 2012 15: 08
        You still need to understand him
    2. mongoose
      mongoose 12 October 2012 12: 16
      the fact is that both federal and local budget money are spent on education, that’s why it’s possible that the amounts are comparable, and I’m sure that Medvedev has much more real numbers than say a young man under the name Baltika -eighteen
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 12 October 2012 16: 27
        Quote: mongoose
        a young man under the nickname Baltika-18

        Thank you for the compliment Dima.
  4. Oleg1986
    Oleg1986 12 October 2012 11: 51
    Of course, somehow reforming the education system is necessary if only because the world is constantly changing. But that's how to ruin everything - this is a real crime for which punishment should be incurred not so much by stupid performers as initiators of the process.
    They say a lot about the fact that there is no cohesive society in the country. This is as usual until the thunder strikes. Here, somehow gathered, spoke out against Yu. And even then, it still doesn’t reach everyone. And at the expense of education, it is somehow deaf still. It’s like someone mutters just in the next room - they don’t even hear him. Although, in many areas the same. The same medicine, for example.
    And DAM is something with something. Does he really think that it was someone who once elected him? Many simply voted against the rest then.
  5. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 12 October 2012 12: 03
    the so-called decile coefficient

    What is this coefficient? I understand that 100% is the intellect of the "Decl" artist and his fans?
  6. Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 12 October 2012 12: 06
    The feeling that he does not read them before the performance. But they still need to be analyzed, because he doesn’t only have a head, and also the post in the country is not small. With such clever people, there is nothing to think about the revival of education. Where is Putin looking? I understand that politics is a delicate matter, but education is OUR children, the future of OUR country. Well, if he put it, then he should look after it.
  7. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 12 October 2012 12: 06
    Our poor education! Another minister and once again "... to the ground, and then ..."
    1. donchepano
      donchepano 13 October 2012 06: 12
      Our poor country and our poor people
      from the year 17 everything is destroyed until the foundation, then at the expense of the people it is being built is being reformed
      People consider cattle as
  8. iulai
    iulai 12 October 2012 12: 07
    the smart will learn, and it’s useless to hammer morons, no reforms will help.
  9. Manager
    Manager 12 October 2012 12: 07
    Yes, he will soon distribute it to everyone on the iPad and say in general elementary school.
    1. Armata
      Armata 12 October 2012 12: 11
      That's for sure. Our generation will learn a decent change.
  10. baltika-18
    baltika-18 12 October 2012 12: 11
    Whatever you say Medvedev is my "favorite" character.

    In general, something incomprehensible is happening with the education in the country.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 12 October 2012 12: 13
      Another topic.
    2. mongoose
      mongoose 12 October 2012 12: 17
      Whatever you say Medvedev is my "favorite" character.

      love of evil, love and man. you have the Communists is the norm laughing
      1. Lech e-mine
        Lech e-mine 12 October 2012 12: 29
        The results of the conversion of the police to the police - to celebrate, some policemen having drunk a bottle of CHAMPAGNE began to try this bottle on the ass of the suspect.
        REFORMS of Mr. MEDVEDEV are hasty, unprepared, unprofessional, something reminiscent of what Gorbachev did in perestroika. I am afraid that our ex-president will break firewood no less than Gorbachev.
        1. thatupac
          thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 24
          The one to whom they pressed the bottle had 2-3 walks for robberies and extortions, and also had stars on his knees (with a hint that he doesn’t communicate with cops). It was easier for him to behave, and he was not to scatter with concepts. The bottle is still nothing, because they could have thrown them into the cell to the real ones dropped.
          1. Lech e-mine
            Lech e-mine 13 October 2012 09: 23
            All the same, he is a citizen of RUSSIA AND ADVISING A BOTTLE OF CHAMPAGNE IN THE POP OF SUSPECTED - this is not good.
        2. donchepano
          donchepano 13 October 2012 06: 14
          is it you in the sense that Russia will collapse as in its time the hunchbacked-USSR
          1. Lech e-mine
            Lech e-mine 13 October 2012 09: 22
            There was a campaign to cut down vineyards (fought for sobriety), the result is deplorable.
      2. baltika-18
        baltika-18 12 October 2012 16: 32
        Quote: mongoose
        love of evil, love and man. you have the Communists is the norm

        Now I have doubts about your adequacy Dima. The request is the same as yours, introduce yourself, preferably the truth without fiction.
    3. thatupac
      thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 17
      And in our school, when I was studying, and at the university, too, many went to education. Activated only for control, exams and sessions. Purely in order to get the final positive ratings for yourself. So received certificates and diplomas.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 12 October 2012 19: 08
        Activated only for control, exams and sessions.

        So many studied and nothing - learned and now work in their specialty, worse than others, those who studied in one specialty work in another, not even adjacent ..
  11. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 12 October 2012 12: 22

    The “revolutionary” proposals put forward by Medvedev to improve the quality of education ...

    Yes, for me, not a revolution, but a counter-revolution in education is needed. Everyone recognized that Soviet education was the best in the world. And the fact that the diplomas of our universities are not recognized in the world is pure politics. Specialists are recognized, moreover, to grab, but no diplomas. And they never recognize. why do they need competition? for the West, Russians are savages and barbarians, where can such people have a good education from? I have five students in my family from the second to the 11th grade. And I can clearly see what insanity is happening in education. The school constantly complains about the lack of funds. I do not believe that there are no funds in the country. For all football players who are of no use, there are funds, but no children?
    1. V. Salama
      V. Salama 12 October 2012 14: 01
      Quote: lewerlin53rus
      Yes, for me, not a revolution, but a counter-revolution in education is needed. Everyone recognized that Soviet education was the best in the world.

      Initially, the system of Soviet education was destroyed deliberately, now it is irrelevant. Now the decline in the quality of education is a "side effect" of the creation of an education system for training personnel for the "pipe economy" Here systematically and comprehensively educated people are simply not needed (not profitable, expensive) and even "harmful".
      1. donchepano
        donchepano 13 October 2012 06: 24
        Speak directly to the people - the leadership needs slaves serving the oligarch capitalists, and not the abstruse guys who can think and ask: why is it in our country-leader in the world’s hydrocarbon reserves that gas prices are so high?
        And in "backward Asian" Turkmenistan, gas and bread are free
        and communal - pennies for the population?
  12. aleksey
    aleksey 12 October 2012 12: 28
    Interestingly, Medvedev thought of mathematics himself or suggested who, and he blurted out without thinking .. for the next 8-year program we will develop chemistry, then physics, and so on ... what kind of one-sidedness, some kind of nonsense. "moronic" coefficient of education is the usual reformist itch of bureaucrats, an excuse for being in a position, then the slogan "we fulfill and overfulfill the coefficient" follows, after 5 years it will turn out that they were going in the wrong direction, resignation (maybe even with the presentation of the order), the next "reformer" and another "program", then in a circle .. the feeling that the prime minister is not in his place ..
    1. V. Salama
      V. Salama 12 October 2012 12: 57
      Quote: aleksey
      interesting Medvedev thought of mathematics himself or suggested who, but he blurted out without thinking ..
      It is generally recognized that in terms of this indicator our education is one of the best in the world, so this is pure cheating, a demonstration of "political wisdom" - in any way it is a win-win to strengthen where it is already so good.
    2. thatupac
      thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 25
      Medvedev says what speechwriters and his assistants write to him. So the "decile factor" is not his invention. Your Cap.
  13. Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 12 October 2012 12: 50
    There is probably a typo. We wanted to write a moronic coefficient! But ... it happens. The one who writes nothing will not be mistaken!
  14. bask
    bask 12 October 2012 12: 52
    Drive this bear out of GDP already. And then again, a program to eradicate illiteracy in 10 years will have to be carried out! If this goes on.
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 26
      It is better to expel those who consciously do not want to study from schools and universities. Do you want to study? There, workers are needed in the factories.
  15. Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 12 October 2012 12: 54
    Or decile from the word decile ?!

    And why removed koment with the word moronic coefficient. Like a medical term !?
  16. Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 12 October 2012 13: 09
    So I look at Medvedev, because it is clear that the man is not stupid, smart (I am writing quite seriously), but something is wrong with him. I involuntarily recall a film (ours, a documentary) about slippers (the American version of the feature film "Inception").
  17. wax
    wax 12 October 2012 13: 13
    It is amazing how great this is for Medvedev - no matter what he takes with good intentions, everything turns into absurdity.
    1. bask
      bask 12 October 2012 13: 40
      Yes, according to the “classic”, the black man. We wanted the best, but it turned out as always x ...... We will survive that someday it will be different, eh?
    2. thatupac
      thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 29
      And our people are like this: it seems, for example, under Gorbachev, a dry law was introduced in order to reduce mortality, and our people not only did not stop drinking, but also leaned on fired and artisanal vodka. As the Army says: "Wherever you kiss a soldier, everywhere .opa." It's the same with our people. Everyone gives a damn about everything, but for some reason everyone is obliged to.
      1. bask
        bask 12 October 2012 16: 02
        Yes, in the subject of anecdote. Son dad dad you will drink less? No son you will eat less.
  18. grizzlir
    grizzlir 12 October 2012 13: 28
    At one time, among the population who was wary of the coming of Soviet power, the following opinion began to prevail: if they want to educate everyone, then they will not cheat. It’s much harder to deceive an educated person. just guess.
    1. bask
      bask 12 October 2012 16: 09
      grizzlir Strongly said (debilitation) .What will happen? It’s not difficult to guess. We started with Mistral we will end with pins, (they are already Chinese) Without the UNIVERSAL FREE EDUCATION of Russia ,, end ,,
  19. Igarr
    Igarr 12 October 2012 14: 12
    All wrong..
    Probably, they wanted - imbecile coefficient ... to introduce.
    Because all these educational trends are in the category of dementia.
    The mass of academies. Are they graduating from academics?
    A lot of universities. Release - .... it is not even known what to call it.
    Colleges .... mass. They don’t let anyone out at all. More precisely, they release them - none.
    Under the USSR, a graduate of a technical school differed from a graduate of an institute only in more practical training, because he was "sharpened" for technology. Institutes, respectively, were more inclined towards scientific work. And then, the line was so thin.
    The other day with great surprise I saw in Orel - College .....
    He did not believe his eyes, went over to see what kind.
    Well, who thinks what?
    .... technical school - ENTREPRENEURIAL specialists.
    And how..
    All these figures - educational activities - graduated from Soviet universities.
    All leaders are now graduates of Soviet higher education.
    So what ..... they .... fool those who will retire - to work?
    Or will not be? On one percent from squandering the brain ... will live?
    They did not recognize, allegedly, diplomas of Soviet universities abroad.
    But unemployed specialists were famously picked up.
    And now - as before - diplomas of college-university-academies of the Russian Federation are not appreciated abroad. Bachelors should be masters. And with us - who knows.
    What have you achieved in 21 years? N I C H E O.
    The whole result of the work.
    And as far as our prime minister is concerned, I only have ... selective expressions.
  20. thatupac
    thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 15
    If a person himself does not want to learn, then whatever reforms are introduced, he will remain a moron anyway.
    1. tarks
      tarks 12 October 2012 18: 38
      so all education should be designed for oligophrenic?
  21. artist-mamluk
    artist-mamluk 12 October 2012 14: 23
    Good day to all!
    My child is studying in the 2nd grade, Gentlemen, this is something with something, In order to teach the child to correctly and quickly count, write correctly, we still teach her at home according to Soviet textbooks, and believe me, the result was not long in coming . I have three children, the difference between each 9 years old, and only with the last, reformed education is complete idiocy.
    1. thatupac
      thatupac 12 October 2012 14: 39
      Or maybe it’s just hard for him to learn? Not all geniuses. Or the team does not add up yet.
      1. artist-mamluk
        artist-mamluk 12 October 2012 15: 29
        I thought so too, until I went to the parent's meeting. All parents call the teacher and ask how to do this. Almost all children do their homework with their parents; they themselves cannot.
    2. tarks
      tarks 12 October 2012 18: 40
      now imagine - all this - also on the mov, which in the east, south and crimea are used, to put it mildly, by few.
  22. Middle-brother
    Middle-brother 12 October 2012 14: 47
    It’s possible that I’ll grab the minuses now, but I personally get the impression that Medved is specially forced to voice any crap so that the GDP looks better against his background.
    And by the way, can anyone remember what good came of Medvedev during his reign?
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 12 October 2012 17: 52
      Quote: Middle Brother
      And by the way, can anyone remember what good came of Medvedev during his reign?
      The main thing is that the revolution did not happen, as under Nicholas II.
  23. Mikado
    Mikado 12 October 2012 16: 20
    Another clowning. It was necessary to blurt out something at the camera so that they would not forget about existence - they gathered advice, expressed common truths from the cap, and it’s good. Clownery. Universities are trying to cram into the top hundred. They just forget that the main indicator of a university’s rating depends on the postgraduate employment of its graduates, how they are willingly hired and for what salaries. And, since our private sector is completely underdeveloped, and nepotism is flourishing in state-sponsored institutions and what university you have a diploma to put in there, then we still have to enter and enter our top hundred universities.
  24. Letun
    Letun 12 October 2012 16: 57
    I paraphrase the words of an old advertisement:
    Medved is better for Russia not-ee-ee! laughing
  25. bubla5
    bubla5 12 October 2012 17: 51
    The advantages and disadvantages of education are already visible now, we are not creating anything new — we are modernizing the development of the 70s, we’ll stop flying into space soon, and teenagers don’t even know where Azerbaijan and Armenia are, I don’t even speak about long-distance borders, don’t believe, ask high school children, and young teachers do not know the multiplication table is a fact, I saw it myself, I think on a calculator, you can check.
  26. tarks
    tarks 12 October 2012 18: 30
    decile coefficient? great!

    pretend? level 80 deciles! poor, poor DECL ...

    Kirill Aleksandrovich Tolmatsky (born July 22, 1983, Moscow) is a Russian rapper. Gained fame under the pseudonym DeTsl. ....
  27. Volkhov
    Volkhov 12 October 2012 18: 39
    Why is the template about the connection between education and the state so strong? Education is needed by the person himself, and the state is more likely to be trained under a certain standard such as the exam.
    There is an example of peers 24 and 25 years old, the first dropped out of school, but owns various specialties from industrial alpinism and welding to work in Compass and AutoCAD, masters new ones - such as air conditioners, from the second VO, but everywhere as a student, he ordered drawings at the University ...
    Another example - once led a parachute circle for young people, so they usually made noise, but when explaining the theory it was said that their confidence in the first jump depended on knowledge - and they sat quietly, understanding that knowledge was needed.
    You should not expect deep knowledge from seasoned crooks and manipulators - they do not teach their children in secondary schools of the Russian Federation, they need to seek knowledge themselves and help each other, ideally cooperate in specialties.
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 12 October 2012 21: 10
      And he himself from college youth - received a profession where only succeeded.
      Only I tried to get "crusts" - and did it.
      And amateurism is now only on the Internet. It's there for free - you can grab a milen. And so ... draw it. For free.
      Knowledge ... either it is. Or there are no options. "Tajik".
      Our current "education" - brings up "prostitutes":
      Let me explain - to sell more expensively, to whistle more, to bring all kinds of PR and other AH projects more .....
      And the real return .... well, there ... we'll see.
      Handicraft skills ... have always been appreciated. I, a marine engineer, earned money on TV repair from mahallas, Uzbeks ... more than I went to sea.
      And the soul was in the sea ...
      What will we do with education?
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 12 October 2012 21: 50
        And my soul was in rockets, space, but what was created for the society of the USSR is not suitable for the Russian Federation (this shit is not worthy even with Gorbi), therefore restrictions were included - they still won’t do it themselves, but they’ll merge them into the states.
        And education had to be deduced from the basics - we got a system that fit both with the Ancients and with observations and with the Nazis - this is our opponent, but a technical example. Paradoxically, but verifiable.
      2. donchepano
        donchepano 13 October 2012 06: 33
        What to do what to do ... Drive such education leaders from the country beyond the hill. You can uncle Sam- let them fall apart
    2. Per se.
      Per se. 12 October 2012 21: 21
      Quote: Volkhov
      Why is the template about the connection between education and the state so strong?
      The present and future of the country stands on three pillars - the armed forces (for the security of the external and internal - the army and the police), health care and education. Concern for the development and capacity of these institutions is the direct prerogative of the state. Otherwise, we will receive self-medication (a sick nation), self-education (with a general decline in culture), and, a favorite topic for many, is a short barrel for self-defense and lynching. It is not necessary to substitute personal interest with the development policy, health and safety of the whole society.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 12 October 2012 22: 04
        The thesis about the "three whales" is correct when these are their own whales, and our "state" is a vassal of one of the systems, which has quite consumer views on us. These are not whales, but sharks, which quite successfully devour the naive Russians who are trying to rely on them.
        I also had a classic idea of ​​the state, but it was systematically and practically destroyed. A classic state still needs to be created, and before that, to understand what is happening around.
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 13 October 2012 14: 28
          Quote: Volkhov
          I also had a classic idea of ​​the state, but it was systematically and practically destroyed. A classic state still needs to be created, and before that, to understand what is happening around.

          "There is no question that would be as deliberately or unintentionally confused as the question of the state." V.I. Lenin

          Quote: Volkhov
          The "three whales" thesis is true when they are their own whales,

          That's right, when, in accordance with the 1977 Constitution, it was declared that we had "a new historical community - the Soviet people," and the state was "an instrument for protecting the interests of the people," everything was perfectly clear and logical - the army and the police are state instruments for protection interests of the people. And the content of state education was in the interests of the people. Who argues that the Soviet public education system was one of the best in the world? And now (during the presidency of Medvedev) they even adopted the "Concept of National Security" where, for the new conditions (class society), it was at least asserted that "national interests are understood as the totality of balanced interests of the individual, society and the state." The new "National Security Strategy" does not even have this, because it is not something that is unrealizable, and does not make any sense at all in our situation.
          Your opponents simply do not enter the topic, that at the moment the interests of the state do not coincide with the interests of most of society.
    3. pechv
      pechv 12 October 2012 23: 12
      Weird question. Dear, and who, if not the state, must take care of the fundamental foundations of his existence. There will be no education - there will be no state - free from the sequence of consequences of the rejection of mathematical, in particular, education.
      Why should the state care about the education of its citizens? - Ask such a question. The alternative is very simple - refuse free education, tell your compatriots - education is your problem, at this moment the state will cease to exist. Lomonosov at this moment turns over in a coffin - did you want this?
      1. sealord
        sealord 13 October 2012 03: 22
        And you prolong the situation (pechv) and the question immediately arises: Why are those in power - put on the management of countries "with a device" and for a long time ?! And no matter how much they care about the future! On the contrary, the unleashing and stimulation of more and more cannibalistic "technologies" is pedaling.
        Maybe it's time to learn how to analyze the world around you with your brain?
  28. delakelv124
    delakelv124 12 October 2012 19: 42
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  29. Samsebenaum
    Samsebenaum 12 October 2012 19: 59
    The Soviet education system can be called a reference.
    Even our enemies admitted to this. No, profane gouging came, decided to reform everything with pathos and now we are head over heels in problems.

    Is education development program a disgrace to the country? No, gentlemen are good, this is a personal tandem shame. Like this.
  30. pechv
    pechv 12 October 2012 22: 43
    I could not handle all the comments. As for the article, the problem is complex. At the level of the chairman of the government, it cannot be solved. Need advanced math education? Of course you need, what's the problem? We have such traditions, do not destroy them, do not bother those people who know how to do this, there are many of them in Russia.
    Are emergency measures necessary at the level of government decisions? First-rate stupidity! Request - do not touch, help, do not make final decisions, think about what will happen next when you make your fateful decisions. These issues should be resolved by professionals who know and support the cause.
    Judging by the feverish movements that have accompanied the last months, there are few people interested in the development of education in decision-making structures. Bad of course.
    I know many people who sincerely love and promote mathematics with us, they support them poorly, everything is at the level of agitation, there is little benefit from the statements of the Prime Minister, but the harm is calculated by the number of officials who want to be good, and they are darkness.
  31. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 12 October 2012 22: 46
    I ask you not to get upset, but besides the collapse of the country's education, we are expecting from 01.01.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX another "reform" of health care. wassat
  32. Magadan
    Magadan 13 October 2012 02: 29
    The decile ratio hit me at all. I understand that there are different coefficients, for example, when out of 1 kg of diz. it turns out that fuel is 1.1 liter, then 1.05 ..... but damn it, dudes, have you completely flown cuckoos? Well it is necessary to measure the human mind with coefficients !!!! And then, even before the heap, collect millions of minds and get some kind of coefficient out there!
    For our ministers, education has definitely happened with grief from the mind. It is interesting to double-compute two, they probably write macros in Excel?
    Idiots, no words