Revolvers and pistols, more than strange

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Revolvers and pistols, more than strange
A very strange revolver of the Belgian gunsmith Gene Ronge, more like a Browning pistol. Photo littlegun.be

“As far as I remember, I did not take part in this fight - I was so scared that I completely forgot about the loaded twelve-shot revolver that I held in my hand. Trembling with fear, I looked at the swords, reflecting the weak light of the torches, and suddenly noticed that among the soldiers there was confusion.
"In the Forgotten Land" Rahul Sankrityayan

stories about weapons. It has always been and will always be that some talented engineer “wants something strange”, and as a result he creates a device that is unlike anything that has happened before. But most often such devices are overcomplicated, or they have some other drawback, and as a result they fall into the category of curiosities. The same thing happened in the “family of revolvers”, but there were several designers who created shooting samples of completely unusual revolvers and pistols. Here is our story about them today.


Judging by the photo alone, it is not entirely clear what the highlight of the design is. It is obvious that it has a hidden trigger, that it is a double-action revolver, that it has a device for unloading on the right side, but nothing more. Whether it acted automatically is not clear. Photo littlegun.be

As has been said more than once, the problem of the revolver was the small capacity of its drum. Of course, it was possible to make a drum for 12 rounds, but its dimensions became too large. In addition, many revolvers took a long time to reload. The introduction of breaking systems, such as Smith and Wesson revolvers, seems to have solved the second problem. Moreover, it was possible to solve it in systems with drums that lean to the side. Since the cartridges, as before, were inserted into the chambers one at a time, accelerators were invented for the simultaneous introduction of 5-6 cartridges, although they still did not receive much distribution. There were attempts to distribute self-discharging revolvers, both acting mechanically and due to the force of powder gases flowing from the barrel. Didn't work, didn't work satisfactorily.




It is very possible that the cartridge ejector rod was driven by gases exiting the barrel. But, unfortunately, the photo does not allow this to be established with accuracy. Photo littlegun.be

And then there was an inventor who decided to solve all these three problems at once in one revolver and ... decided! His name was Antonio Garcia-Reynoso, and he himself was from Argentina. He was born on June 19, 1863, and began his military career in 1883 in the First Artillery Regiment. He specialized in ballistics and small arms. He rose to the rank of major. Apparently, the funds allowed him, because he went to travel around Europe, where he studied various types of weapons. He returned to Argentina, lived in Cordoba, where he died in 1943. And it was just the idea to create a self-loading and self-discharging revolver that came to him. And not only came - his revolver was even produced by the Belgian gunsmith A. Pieper in Liege.


Revolver A. Garcia-Reynoso and schemes of action of its individual nodes

The A. Garcia-Reynoso revolver was five-shot, but in addition to the drum, it had a five-round magazine on the left side of the frame. A pack of five cartridges was introduced into it. By pulling the trigger or cocking the trigger, the cartridges from the magazine were sent one by one to the chambers of the revolver, after which another pack could be inserted into the magazine and thus receive a total ammunition load of 10 rounds. Although it was possible to charge the drum in the traditional way. It was possible to disconnect the store and save a supply of cartridges for a critical situation.

The revolver was equipped with a Piper gas seal system, that is, his drum moved onto the barrel and blocked the gap between the barrel and the drum. Therefore, a 7,65-mm bullet weighing 5 grams with a charge of smokeless powder weighing 0,3 grams had a very decent initial velocity of 370 m / s.


And this is a 7,8 x 30 mm cartridge for it

The inventor provided for a spring-loaded cut-off that holds the cartridges in the magazine and a blocking of the cartridge feed lever, which can also be locked with a latch and thus disable the magazine. Like a revolver, the sleeve, when the trigger was pressed, entered the barrel. As soon as the trigger reached its rearmost position, the hammer fell off the platoon and a shot took place. But at the same time, the trigger hit not only the striker, which hit the primer, but also the short arm of the L-shaped extractor lever, the long arm of which, with its tooth, caught on the groove of the last empty cartridge case and threw it back with force. After that, the coil spring took the drum back, and it could turn with each next pull of the trigger. When the last cartridge was fed into the drum, the trigger was locked, showing the shooter that the weapon should be reloaded. By the way, the magazine could be loaded not only with a pack, but also with one cartridge, that is, a half-empty shooter magazine could also be reloaded at any time.

The revolver holster could be used as an attached stock. To do this, its leather base was reinforced with a metal frame. This revolver is described in the German magazine "Schuss und Waffe" in issue 9 for 1913. It was noted that its design was very ingenious, but too complicated, and therefore it is no longer produced.

This design has another negative point, and it is completely unavoidable. The fact is that the extractor lever captures any first sleeve that is in the drum on the right side. That is, it does not matter whether it is a whole cartridge or an empty sleeve. In any case, their extraction is inevitable, and it turns out that out of 10 loaded cartridges when firing, one will be lost anyway. Of course, this is not God's whole loss, but ... it's a shame to lose cartridges where so many efforts have been made to save them!


Pistol Halvard Landstad. Scheme from the patent documentation

No less unique is the design of a strange hybrid patented in 1899 between a revolver and a pistol designed by Halvard Folkestad Landstad, who lived in Christiania (now Oslo). He made a prototype at his own expense and in 1901 presented it to the military for testing, which ended in failure.

The unusual design is that it uses both a rotating flat drum (only for two chambers), and at the same time a box magazine in the handle for six rounds. For some reason, it was embedded on the left side, so that its side panel was also the handle panel. Cartridges Nagant caliber 7,5 mm.


The weapon was quite large for its caliber and the number of rounds in the magazine. Photo Historical Firearms

This strange “pistol-revolver” worked like this: a cartridge from the magazine was loaded into the lower chamber of the drum. Pulling the trigger rotated the drum, while the drum with the cartridge rose in line with the barrel. After the shot, the recoil force set in motion a free shutter behind the drum, which removed and ejected the empty cartridge case. Immediately after that, the drum turned again and a cartridge from the magazine was inserted into the lower chamber.


Landstad's pistol and magazine. Photo forgottenweapons.com

The gun did not enter production due to poor test results. But the inventor kept his prototype as a keepsake and brought it with him to England, where he lived in Middlesex until his death in 1955. Then he got a museum in Beasley and was there until 1977, and then was auctioned to a private person.

It is interesting that the designer patented it in three countries at once: Norway (patent No. 8564, dated April 11, 1899); in Germany (patent No. 114184, dated August 1, 1899) and in England (patent No. 22479, dated January 13, 1900).

It is difficult to say what real benefits the inventor had in mind when he offered the military his strange design. The number of cartridges in it did not exceed the number of cartridges in the same revolver. Therefore, 7-round pistols had an advantage over him. The rotating drum mechanism was more complex than blowback automatic pistols. The supply of cartridges from the handle inserted from the side was inconvenient.


Pistol of Harald Sangard. Photo forgottenweapons.com

The third design belongs to a pistol, typical in design - with a return spring, put on the barrel, closed by a casing, and a blowback, but ... with two stores at once with a total capacity of 50 rounds! The third store was in a holster, so that the shooter had at his disposal 75 cartridges for one pistol - a kind of world record!


So he looked in the hand of the shooter. Photo forgottenweapons.com

This deadly weapon was also invented by a Norwegian, Harald Sangard, and he, like many pistol designers, began by creating his own 6,5 x 19 mm cartridge, that is, short enough to place two such magazines for 25 rounds in the handle at once each. All pistol control levers were moved to the left side. A slide delay and a lever safety were provided. The window for the extraction of cartridge cases was on the top of the bolt.


Due to the small-sized cartridge, the width of the handle of this pistol was not much wider than the handle of the Colt 1911 pistol. However, even in this case, it was with an inconvenient slope for the shooter. Photo forgottenweapons.com

But the main thing, which, of course, surprised this pistol was a wide handle, into which two magazines were inserted at once. Having shot the first one, it was possible to remove it, and the second, which was behind it, quickly move forward. Accordingly, if this store was also used up, then it moved back (because it had a fastening on a wire loop), and the third store stored in a holster was inserted in front of it.


The surname of the author and the year of patenting were applied directly to the side surface of the shutter. Under the inscription is the barrel delay lever. Photo forgottenweapons.com

A weak cartridge (the author tried to strengthen it and created a pistol for two 18-round magazines, but also unsuccessfully) and an uncomfortable shape of the handle did not arouse enthusiasm among potential consumers, and the magazine capacity of 50 rounds was considered excessive in all respects. So this "supergun" remained a curiosity!
29 comments
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  1. +4
    16 July 2022 04: 58
    A pistol-revolver is, of course, some kind of horror.
    1. +4
      16 July 2022 16: 27
      Revolver Garcia-Reynoso
      The revolver holster could be used as an attached stock.
      To do this, its leather base was reinforced with a metal frame.






    2. +1
      17 July 2022 08: 08
      This is called: not a candle to God, not to hell with a poker.
  2. +6
    16 July 2022 06: 08
    funny designs, smile it was interesting to read. Thanks, Vyacheslav! good


    the width of the handle of this pistol was not much wider than the handle of the Colt 1911 pistol.

    It seems that the machine is too small for 1911, or does it just seem to me?



    Who has any thoughts, colleagues? drinks
    1. +3
      16 July 2022 06: 14
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Who has any thoughts

      It seems to you.
    2. +1
      16 July 2022 16: 37
      Quote: Sea Cat
      It seems that for 1911 the machine is too small

      hi
      Video about the gun Sangard

      1. +1
        16 July 2022 17: 54
        Thanks Misha. smile
        In general, Vyacheslav explained everything intelligibly and clearly, and at least I realized that I was mistaken - this is 19-11, our friend just holds his pistols a little wrong and this creates such a feeling.
        1. +3
          16 July 2022 19: 35
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Thanks Misha

          hi
          Please
          Just above, there are also some interesting photos wink
    3. +1
      17 July 2022 08: 12
      In my opinion - a normal handle. If you anoint to say: as for convenience
      On the other hand: if you are used to and trust, then there is no conversation
      1. 0
        17 July 2022 18: 28
        Glory, hello!
        Whose handle are you talking about? If it’s about Sangard, then there’s nothing normal there and close, it’s not for nothing that they didn’t take it into service, and it didn’t have success in commercial sales either. Solid anti-ergonomics and anti-design. wassat
        1. +1
          18 July 2022 07: 10
          I'm talking about the Colt handle, and Sangard is a stuffed meow
          1. 0
            18 July 2022 07: 30
            So 1911 was famous for that - for its applicability and convenience, he shot himself, with such a cartridge there is almost no recoil, and in his hand lies ... like the breast of a young girl. smile
            1. +1
              18 July 2022 19: 46
              Kostya, is Luger worse?
              1. 0
                19 July 2022 03: 44
                "Luger" loses the lack of a trigger and the relative complexity and, as a result, the high cost of production. Given the choice, I would prefer 1911, it is more reliable and more convenient to use. No wonder the Germans in 1938 replaced the "Luger" with the "Walter" R.38, and the "Colt" 1911 was in service with the US Army until 1985. Judge for yourself.
  3. +7
    16 July 2022 06: 09
    Vyacheslav hi I would call the very first pistol in the photographs a cool, although indeed a strange approach to creating weapons. Fortunately, none of these designers thought of switching the pistol to belt feed in addition to the drum! For the article, as always, +++ hi
    1. +4
      16 July 2022 06: 14
      Glad you liked it!
  4. +4
    16 July 2022 06: 39
    Hmm, there are many things in the world, friend Horatio, that our wise men never dreamed of ..
    interesting stuff
  5. +8
    16 July 2022 06: 39
    more than strange
    ,,, this is strange lol

    Revolver Apache
    ,,, brass knuckles in the face, a knife under the ribs and an "olive" in the liver. wink
    1. +9
      16 July 2022 06: 44
      ,,, or a pistol designed by the Frenchman Jarre "Harmonica".
      belay
      1. +7
        16 July 2022 07: 08
        Hello, Sergey! smile

        "Oh, how many wonderful discoveries we have
        The spirit of enlightenment is being prepared, "(c) wassat


        1. +6
          16 July 2022 07: 22
          Gauss Cannon laughing
    2. +1
      16 July 2022 10: 30
      Its appearance is strange - for us! but based on its purpose - a civilian weapon of self-defense - a weapon of last chance - with a hidden carrying function - it is quite functional! In the Encyclopedia of the Beetle, a couple of such structures are shown
  6. +3
    16 July 2022 07: 03
    was not much wider than the grip of the Colt 1911 pistol.

    ,,,retired US Army four-star general and former commander of Delta Force, was the final commander in NATO's US Operation Resolute Support in Afghanistan from September 2, 2018 to July 12, 2021.

    ,, "Colt" 1911. here's the thing good
    1. +3
      16 July 2022 07: 16
      "Colt" 1911

      ,, in the movie "Windtalkers", he is well represented.


      1. +5
        16 July 2022 08: 47
        In our "Outpost in the Mountains", the only one in the entire film crew in 1911 walked through the hands of the Basmachi and all American spies. smile

  7. +7
    16 July 2022 07: 34
    Pistol Halvard Landstad.


    ,,,up position: ready to fire
    bottom: sliding back, extracting the cartridge case.


    ,,,Landstad cylinder in the middle of rotation. Please note that it is flat, with only two chambers.

    ,,,left side disassembled.

    ,,, disassembled right side.
  8. +2
    16 July 2022 12: 51
    The author writes about the cartridge for the A. Garcia-Reynoso 7.8x30 revolver as follows:

    The revolver was equipped with a Piper gas seal system, that is, his drum moved onto the barrel and blocked the gap between the barrel and the drum. Therefore, a 7,65-mm bullet weighing 5 grams with a charge of smokeless powder weighing 0,3 grams had a very decent initial velocity of 370 m / s.

    There is reason to believe that such characteristics were obtained not on this cartridge, but with a 7.8x37mm cartridge
  9. 0
    17 July 2022 08: 15
    Sangard - completely uncomfortable handle
  10. 0
    16 September 2022 14: 43
    This weapon has not passed through my hands and I think that others know it mainly from books. Therefore, this article is a revelation for me and I would like to study it again. Some of these tools appear more than once, perhaps they are museum exhibits. Nevertheless, the author invested in the work and, I think, he pleased us. Thanks,. am