Drone carrier: aircraft carrier laughter and tears in Turkish

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Turkey has begun testing its latest Anadolu UDC. They waited for the ship, the test was postponed due to the fire of 2019, but now everything is over and Anadolu is going to the test.

So Turkey can be congratulated on joining the club of countries that have non-aircraft carriers in service. You can consider the differences between the UDC and the so-called "light aircraft carrier" for a very long time, but in fact there are aircraft carriers, and there are aircraft-carrying attack ships. Helicopter carriers, landing ships and the like.



The essence of aircraft carriers is simple, like a lifeline: they carry planes on board, with the help of which they project power to any region of the world. Naturally, surrounded by a whole crowd of escorts.


UDC (let's call them all that way) play a little differently. In fact, these are landing ships capable of delivering to a certain area up to a battalion (in the US Marine Corps in a battalion up to 2 people, if anything) personnel with weapons and armored vehicles. Land this personnel in accordance with plans, and then provide fire cover using attack helicopters or vertical take-off aircraft.


Such ships exist in many fleets world and, in principle, they differ from each other only in size and, accordingly, in the number of personnel and equipment taken on board.

Almost all of these ships can move an infantry battalion along with an infantry fighting vehicle / armored personnel carrier to a fairly decent distance, tanks reinforcements, artillery, ATGMs, air defense systems and other things useful in battle.

Typically, such ships are characterized by the presence of a dock chamber in the stern, from where, in fact, the landing takes place on special landing craft capable of operating in shallow water.


And all such ships have a large hull with a decent flat deck, on which it is so convenient to place helicopters.


A helicopter is generally a very useful thing on a ship. A PLO helicopter is capable of, if not destroying, then at least scaring off an enemy submarine, transport helicopters can land the first wave of troops, which will gain a foothold on the coast and make it possible for the main forces to approach, and attack helicopters will quite normally provide fire support to the landing troops and, first of all, arrange anti-tank a headache to the enemy’s equipment, which will have the intention to destroy the landing force.

And who is richer - those countries can afford to consider the issue of placing on these luxurious decks and VTOL aircraft - aircraft with vertical takeoff and landing.


Yes, this option is not for everyone who is not friends with NATO, there are practically no chances, except for the frankly outdated Harriers. But even NATO members may not receive the new F-35Bs. As it happened with Turkey.

In general, UDC is a compromise. Aviation technology is a very complex economy that requires a lot of premises and areas, warehouses, technical personnel, since maintenance and especially repair of both aircraft and helicopters is a very difficult task.

In addition, it is necessary to store on the ship, in addition to spare parts and tools, aviation fuel, oils and ammunition. Everything is so non-combustible and not dangerous in terms of explosion.

By the way, on the same UDC of the WASP type, the Americans carry ammunition and fuel for the landing force for 4-5 days of hostilities. But "WASP" is a vessel with almost 30 thousand tons of displacement. For comparison, TAKR "Peter the Great" - 25 thousand tons. That is, we feel the difference in what someone carries.


Plus, any UDC is a potential command post for a landing operation and a hospital. It is very convenient to deliver the wounded by helicopters.

In general, UDC is really universal and has many positive qualities. Indeed, a helicopter regiment on deck, a motorized rifle regiment of incomplete equipment below deck (modern UDCs can accommodate from 1000 to 2000 fighters), a hospital, communications - in principle, everything that is needed for a landing operation.

Of course, you have to pay for everything.

Therefore, the tonnage of the UDC is quite decent, moreover, in terms of size, all these Mistrals are rather rather big ships that require special infrastructure. UDCs have very wide hulls (and where you place everything you need in narrow ones), that is, you should not expect the speed of a destroyer from them.

Armament is also modest. It will, of course, allow you to shoot at targets on the shore, to brush off annoying aircraft (doubtful) and helicopters (more likely) of the enemy, but in fact, the UDC implies an ORDER. Not as cool as an aircraft carrier, but nonetheless. Air defense / anti-aircraft defense ships are simply required to be present in this order, since helicopters are good, but not for combat operations against enemy submarines. Detect - yes, sink - is unlikely to succeed.

And the presence of aircraft such as "Harrier" or "Lightning-2" is not a panacea for problems from the air. It is clear that the duty link should carry out patrol service even if something happens ... But it is in which case it immediately becomes clear that 6-12 aircraft on the UDC is not 80-100 on a serious American aircraft carrier. And given that it will be necessary to act against enemy aircraft near its territory, on which airfields will definitely be present, then it will turn out to be a very definite situation in which the Moskva cruiser found itself.

There were no planes on the Moskva, but they would hardly have been able to change anything. Considering how much and what weapons were on the cruiser, any UDC would have strangled with envy. And yet, here's how it all turned out.

Why UDC is needed at all has been said more than once. The first wave of landings on the territory of the enemy, which, so to speak, does not have impressive means of defense. A group of ships, which includes UDC, approaches the shore, scatters the enemy forces on the shore and begins landing. Cover ships, attack helicopters and aircraft assist in the landings. Everything is simple.

landing operations in stories there were many human wars, the difference is only in the scale of operations. Of course, landings on the scale of Normandy or Okinawa are rare today, but about 1991 ships and almost 170 aircraft, including B-2000 strategic bombers, were involved in Operation Desert Storm in 52.

But such landings are still rare, but the visit of an order from 1-2 UDC and several frigates and escort minesweepers near Odessa in our time would look more than justified. Plus, of course, cover planes from the Crimean airfields.

Here we would have an operation in which the UDC would have been revealed in full, because these ships are capable of landing a decent mass of troops and equipment in the indicated area in a short period of time.


Now it’s worth asking the question: why does Turkey need UDC? Yes, not one, but two, because Trakia is being built on stocks.

The ambitions of the Turkish ruler Erdogan have been known for a very long time. Pan-Turkic peace and projecting the influence of Turkey's power somewhere else.

In general, today Turkey has a quite good fleet by half, however, from ships inherited from NATO allies, but in general, it is quite enough to protect and defend its maritime borders.

So why does Turkey need two hefty UDCs (by the way, these will be the largest ships in the Turkish fleet), apparently, one in the Black Sea, one in the Mediterranean?

ambition. In dollar terms, they are expressed quite normally. It is prestigious in our time to have an aircraft carrier. Better yet, not alone. Of course, the question arises why some countries need it, but this is a question for another article, and we will think of a similar question on UDC for the Turks.

UDC is an offensive tool. With this, everything is clear, they do not defend themselves with amphibious assault forces. In any case, this is a tool for moving military forces to another area and conducting military operations there.

We look at the Black Sea, where the first Turkish squadron is based. Where can you land troops?

Bulgaria and Romania are NATO allies. Absurd.
Ukraine? So we still need to ask.
Russia? Yes, it's funny.
Abkhazia? See point 2.
Georgia? It also seems to be nothing.

In general, the region is such that there is nothing to solve for oneself by landing.

Mediterranean Sea.

The thought immediately arises of the Greek islands, where the two countries always have something going on. But Greece is also a member of NATO. And how much conflict can occur between them ... In general, it can.
Italy, France, Spain - all their own.
Africa ... Yes, Turkey had interests there, but not of such a plan to fight for them, and even so.
Syria? Well, there are enough borders through which you can work (which is happening now), it's cheaper than driving ships. We know that we suffered with the Syrian Express.

Perhaps we simply do not know something, but not a single country within the range of Turkish ships comes to mind where a coup could be staged with the help of two regiments.

So let's leave that aside for now and move on to the ship itself.

Briefly: "Anadolu" is the Spanish "Juan Carlos the first."


A ship considered a classic of the UDC, since it has a very strong side: an excellent balance between the number of troops and the amount of aircraft. This is a really chic ship that can be retrained from a landing ship into a helicopter carrier or a light aircraft carrier no worse than the Mistral.

It is clear that the aircraft carrier will be very light, equipped with vertical take-off and landing aircraft, but the Spaniards solved the problem of a short take-off by creating a 12-degree springboard in the nose, which would allow any VTOL aircraft to take off "humanly", that is, with a normal supply of fuel and weapons .


The springboard isn't such a bad thing after all. It cannot break, it does not take time to recharge the steam system or electromagnetic storage devices, in general, it is scrap and in Africa it is scrap. And most importantly, he is able to throw into the air that "Harrier", that F-35B with a normal combat load.

In general, having successfully repurposed the Juan Carlos for themselves, the Turks got what they wanted: a flat deck with a springboard, four landing craft (LCM) or two landing hovercraft (LCAC) or two landing barges (LCVP), which is more, than the Spaniard, respectively, the landing can be thrown out faster. Huge compartments that can accommodate 29 tanks and up to 40 other vehicles. 12 helicopters in the hold and 6 on the flight deck. Well, the cherry on the Anadolu cake is 12 F-35В.

In general, when the Juan Carlos was created, when the Anadolu was designed, everything was relatively calm and an amphibious helicopter carrier was drawn, that is, a classic UDC. And then the F-35B appeared, and then it started ...

In 2014, when it became clear that the Spaniards would build the ship, even then the Turks were itching to make a UDC with an aircraft carrier option. And then such a gift of fate ...

How Anadolu was built can be read separately, it was built quickly. Which ruined the ship. If the Spaniards were busy like the French, then the alignment could be completely different.

And it turned out that in 2018 the ship was laid down, and in 2019 it was already launched. But by that time, Erdogan had openly played political-military-economic games, including with Russia, and for some unknown reason (we still don’t know much about Turkey) decided to buy S-400 air defense systems in Russia. And our guardians, for no less strange reasons, decided to sell the latest anti-aircraft missile systems to a NATO country.

In general, the situation is more than strange, but the most piquant thing is that the United States did not appreciate Erdogan's ability to be friends with everyone at once, and therefore immediately threw him out of the F-35 supply program. To avoid.

And it happened in the same year 2019. That is, a tragicomic situation has developed: an aircraft carrier is being completed, almost an aircraft carrier, with a springboard for taking off planes, God bless him, with this springboard!

What is most valuable today? That's right, toppings! So questions arose regarding the need for a paid-for and possibly even a complex flight support complex already being installed. That is, surveillance, driving radars, computing power and just jobs suddenly became unnecessary. Yes, all this can be used to work with helicopters, but ...

It’s not that Turkey really needed this non-aircraft carrier in practice, of course, these are just show-offs. The usual eastern arrogance of the ruler of a country claiming regional leadership. The Turks have long established the production of many things, including weaponswhich can and should be taken into account. But Erdogan wanted power. Turkish light aircraft carriers, as leaders of two operational groups of ships, North and South - yes, it would look.

Here the F-35 would look simply gorgeous. I don’t know who these task forces would scare, but 12 F-35s on ships is a good strike power. They would have come to court even with a likely showdown with Russia. As practice has shown, one ancient Su-24 can do things, but here is still a dozen of the latest stealth attack aircraft ...

In general, there was something to regret.


The Turks came up with an elegant move. Yes, Bayraktars. We don’t have our own aircraft (and they don’t, under license the Turks produce only F-16s) - we will equip them with our own drones!

A lot has been written about Bayraktar after the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict, no less has been written and said after the Ukrainian events. And, let's just say, the promoted UAV was debunked a little. He was too unable to escape from the defeat of not the most, we note, the new anti-aircraft systems of Russia. On the contrary, that neither is a classic: "Torami" collided just "once".

But it's an option.

Of course, even a few dozen Bayraktars cannot replace 12 F-35s. This is clear and understandable, you don’t even need to count here especially.

No matter how bad the F-35B is, it carries a four-barreled 25-mm cannon in a container and 220 rounds, as well as up to 6800 kg of combat load on hardpoints.

Bayraktar is known to be able to carry about 100 kg in the form of bombs and missiles. The combat load is indicated at 150 kg, but 50 of them are a weapons control module.

Moreover, the fact that the drone can hang in the air for a very decent amount of time at a cruising speed of 130 km / h does not give anything at all. The radius of control of "Bayraktar" from a ground station is about 150 km, from a ship it can be a little more. But "Anadolu" will have to come somewhere exactly at this distance.

It is not in vain that I often remember Moscow today. The cruiser also came a little closer than it could. And here the hint is not only transparent, it’s immediately clear what’s the point of having clouds on board drones there is none.

For a final comparison, the F-35 has a range of 800 km. A little compared to ground models, but sorry, beyond the scope of many anti-ship missiles. And the plane flies a little faster than the UAV.

We are already silent about the number of weapons, because 1 to 68 - everything is clear. Operators will just wipe their hands trying to drag so many bombs and missiles with drones.

But what can I say, the F-35s of Turkey are not allowed, which means that we will have to get out of the situation as it will. We decided to go out at the expense of "Bayraktars", but everything looks very funny, to say the least - miserable.

As a result, a springboard that gobbled up a certain amount of displacement is completely unnecessary. Unless a miracle happens and the United States does not forgive Erdogan, who has lost his shores, and does not supply him with the F-35В.

In general, it turned out to be some kind of strange toy, such as the royal yacht of the monarchs of Thailand. It's a joke, of course, but that's what the Thai aircraft carrier is called. "Chakri Narubet" goes to sea so rarely that the royal family, for whom apartments have been created on the aircraft carrier, goes out to air on it.


But "Chakri Narubet" (also, by the way, of Spanish construction), although it has a displacement of only 11 thousand tons, can carry 6 "Harriers" and 6 helicopters. No worse than Anadolu.

You can also recall colleagues "Anadolu", the Australian "Adelaide" and "Sydney".


In fact, this is still the same Spanish Juan Carlos, but slightly rebuilt to the requirements of the Australians, who had a lot of work for the UDC in East Timor. These UDCs were originally with a springboard, but were not calculated for the use of aircraft.

Therefore, when the F-35B appeared, the Australians salivated. The American partners said - no question, we will! But then it turned out that the installation of the same equipment for providing flights costs so much that in Australia they shuddered and decided to fly only by helicopters until the end of the ships' service life.

Here in Turkey it turned out that not everything you need is there. And therefore, in order to give at least some meaning to these drone carriers, UAV carriers will be made of them. A typical win with complete zrada. Apparently, they were communicating with our neighbors.

And in the end, there are more questions than answers. But in the end, the Turks drove themselves into this trap, so we can’t cry for them. And we can see what they end up with. And we will even see the birth of a new class of ships - the carrier of naval UAVs!

Although, indeed, they would have built an ordinary UDC, and the head would not have hurt. But Trakia is also being built there ...


To us, in the end, this is just a great example. In Russia, too, from time to time, searchlights of some aircraft carriers pop up for completely incomprehensible and frankly stupid purposes such as “flag demonstration”.

As practice has shown, ships of the UDC type can be very useful to us. In general, any new ships are useful to us;

This, of course, does not mean that we should immediately rush to create VTOL aircraft for these ships. We have excellent helicopters that can solve almost all the tasks of our time. We have, it turns out, where to use such a ship as the UDC. This, unlike Turkey, is already a reason for their creation.

If you carefully look at and analyze not only your own, but also other people's mistakes, if you clearly understand what role each warship can play, then the revival of the Russian fleet may not turn out to be such a dull affair.

The main thing is not to repeat the mistakes, neither your own nor others. The Turks, in fact, helped us get rid of part of the illusions. You have to rely only on yourself. Russian ship, with Russian machines and devices, with Russian weapons. This will be the key to future success.
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  1. +18
    6 July 2022 04: 31
    A cool ship, its potential is amazing, but the main thing is that a whole reinforced battalion of the Marine Corps with 46 tanks in good living conditions in the heat can be transferred anywhere!
    Turkey needs such ships for Cyprus, Libya, Qatar, where the Turks already have military bases, and it’s quite possible to take away the islands from Greece.
    And the fact that there are no strike systems on the ship is for the best in the event of a defeat, the marines have a chance to survive, but with large missiles and detonation they have no chance, Turkey will have an adequate escort to protect this ship ...
    Well done Turks, they managed to do it on their own, apparently no one steals money there and doesn’t buy huge yachts
    1. +12
      6 July 2022 07: 03
      Bulgaria and Romania are NATO allies. Absurd.
      Ukraine? So we still need to ask.
      Russia? Yes, it's funny.
      Abkhazia? See point 2.
      Georgia? It also seems to be nothing.

      Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952, so there are corresponding enemies.
      And there is an opinion that by agreeing to the admission of Sweden and Finland to NATO, the Turks will receive the F-35V, for which these aircraft carriers are being built.
      1. +1
        12 September 2022 05: 08
        I liked the question, why the hell are they Turks. But who will answer, why the heck are they to us? What is being built in Kerch for some unseemly purpose? Even a deep Papuan is enough to buy a couple of coastal missile systems to turn this device into a floating mass grave when approaching the line of "over-the-horizon" landing. Okay Americans. They have 100500 of them. By the time you sink them all, half will land. And he fell in love with aircraft carriers like a horse (one aircraft carrier also doesn’t really fight off foreign shores, several pieces are needed for the same Papuan). And where do these climb (and we, too, after them!) With their pair of troughs? Yes, for show off.
        Lyrical digression. The fleet of the oceanic zone in the near future, we obviously will not pull. Well, pushing to get out. Finish off an adequate, balanced fleet of coast protection and control of the Arctic Ocean. Sell ​​to the Indians a long-suffering almost aircraft carrier (they just don’t have one). And to live within the means of the enemies of fear and envy. To our shores they still poke their piss (the Black Sea, a good example), we still have nothing to drive them out of the ocean. Why puff out cheeks?
    2. -10
      6 July 2022 07: 04
      Quote: Saboteur_Navy
      Cool ship, it has amazing potential,

      The name is especially impressive - drone carrier !!! fellow The first ship was to be named "Carlson":
    3. +15
      6 July 2022 09: 48
      Quote: Saboteur_Navy
      Cool ship, it has amazing potential ...


      I will support, and I don’t see aircraft carrier laughter, as it is written in the title ... the future is behind such ships: an aircraft carrier + UAVs, or UDC with UAVs (attack, reconnaissance, etc.), over time, and the leading fleets of the world (USA / China) they will also rely on unmanned aircraft ... and Turkey in this area can really become a pioneer, since it has enough experience using UAVs + new types are constantly being developed and already created ones are being improved.

      According to the application, in vain the author excluded Ukraine, Georgia (who knows how history will turn), with Greece, too, constant graters, and the fact that they are NATO allies today does not exclude an internal conflict in 5-10 years over disputed islands and gas fields on the shelf, in Africa, again, business interests, it may also be necessary to use military force (the experience of Syria, Libya - shows that Turkey quite successfully uses force where necessary).
      1. +1
        6 July 2022 20: 56
        over time, the leading fleets of the world (USA / China) will also rely on unmanned aircraft ...

        In short, give me an anti-gravity engine, and I'll give you such a flying tank !!!. There are no shock UAVs (except for the Tomahawk, Caliber and Iskander with a Dagger). Well, the Americans are torturing the Valkyrie and something else like that. Transonic, with a turbojet engine and dimensions slightly smaller than a deck-based Skyhawk or the same Harrier. In 10 years they will fly seriously. But not these fly swatters like Blériot, Farman and the Sopwith tabloid. If the Su-25 is not a tenant over a modern field, then why talk about these toys.
        Here Erdogan will make peace with the United States, or he will die, or something else - and the Turks will receive their F-35 verticals. Delov something. The product must be sold. Even the Americans.
    4. +3
      6 July 2022 16: 00
      A cool ship, its potential is amazing, but the main thing is that a whole reinforced battalion of the Marine Corps with 46 tanks in good living conditions in the heat can be transferred anywhere!
      Turkey needs such ships for Cyprus, Libya, Qatar, where the Turks already have military bases, and it’s quite possible to take away the islands from Greece.
      And the fact that there are no strike systems on the ship is for the best in the event of a defeat, the marines have a chance to survive, but with large missiles and detonation they have no chance, Turkey will have an adequate escort to protect this ship ...
      Well done Turks, they managed to do it on their own, apparently no one steals money there and doesn’t buy huge yachts

      In theory, yes. But in practice? Imagine - we have a couple of such ships. We send them to the Snake Island area.... lol
      1. +5
        6 July 2022 19: 57
        Why first? A small snake island, there should be missile boats as a maximum ... And secondly, such ships approach the shore when, after a massive strike in several waves of the KR, ballistic, and then a massive air force strike in several waves, when at least 200 aircraft are in the air, anti-ship missiles are suppressed and air defense, air force, for example, can reach in some cases from the ground ... as in the case of Odessa and Greece, and this ship itself is covered by Uro frigates and destroyers ... in war as in war ... This is in the case of serious opposition, the Turks, before building such a ship, pulled up escort ships, Turkey has both Uro frigates and destroyers and in sufficient quantities ...
        And in the case of Libya, it’s easier there, with Qatar too, and Cyprus, everything is relative, they also need to supply military bases
        This is a military transport and not an attack ship, he needs an escort, without an escort it’s better not to build it at all, first make attack ships and teach the air force to strike massively and not fly in pairs, and then such a ship
        1. 0
          7 July 2022 09: 06
          Why first? A small snake island, there should be missile boats as a maximum ... And secondly, such ships approach the shore when, after a massive strike in several waves of the KR, ballistic, and then a massive air force strike in several waves, when at least 200 aircraft are in the air, anti-ship missiles are suppressed and air defense, air force, for example, can reach in some cases from the ground ... as in the case of Odessa and Greece, and this ship itself is covered by Uro frigates and destroyers ... in war as in war ... This is in the case of serious opposition, the Turks, before building such a ship, pulled up escort ships, Turkey has both Uro frigates and destroyers and in sufficient quantities ...
          And in the case of Libya, it’s easier there, with Qatar too, and Cyprus, everything is relative, they also need to supply military bases
          This is a military transport and not an attack ship, he needs an escort, without an escort it’s better not to build it at all, first make attack ships and teach the air force to strike massively and not fly in pairs, and then such a ship

          All right. But is UDC generally needed in such scenarios? When the coast for 50 km is turned into a desert?
          And again, Point "U" flies maybe 50 km. And we have all the eggs in one basket.

          Why did the Americans invent UDC at all? In order not to drive the usual "Liberty" to the shore, where the Vietnamese artillery can get it and facilitate the landing on an uncomfortable coast.
          With the advent of the CD, all this lost its meaning. But we in the "Gulf" laid down exactly the UDC. winked
          1. +2
            7 July 2022 10: 51
            I believe that this ship is simply indispensable for the Marine Corps, but only here we need the potential to protect it ... Here a lot depends on the opponent, here the Turks successfully entered Libya, they simply need this ship
            Look at the potential the Japanese laid in such ships, they built them specifically for the Marine Corps, which they simply didn’t have in Japan after the war, they still have the F-35 there ... try to approach them ... By the way, the signal of Russia
        2. 0
          12 September 2022 05: 14
          such ships approach the shore when, after a massive strike in several waves of the KR, ballistic, and then a massive strike of the air force in several waves when there are at least 200 aircraft in the air
          I'm sorry to ask, and where will all this abundance come from?
    5. 0
      16 September 2022 09: 45
      Turkey, with its capabilities, has an excellent balanced fleet and it is alone. And we have 4 theaters of military operations at once, and two of them are fired by missiles from land through, by definition, huge lakes. And our Navy is trying to be strong and important everywhere, but this is not possible, and it’s time to take off the pink glasses and focus on the two main fleets, the Northern and Pacific, and complete the rest according to the residual principle. Two warriors have already proved that you cannot have serious ships in the Black and Baltic
  2. +11
    6 July 2022 04: 40

    Bulgaria and Romania are NATO allies. Absurd.
    Ukraine? So we still need to ask.
    Russia? Yes, it's funny.
    Abkhazia? See point 2.
    Georgia? It also seems to be nothing.

    The author forgets about the south of the Arabian Peninsula, about the countries of the Maghreb and East Africa, where Turkey has interests. In addition, UDCs serve not just for landing troops in combat, but are also transport ships for transporting soldiers and cargo.

    In addition, the author himself said, and I quote:

    In any case, this is a tool for moving military forces to another area and conducting hostilities there.
    1. +6
      6 July 2022 12: 02
      Quote: Luminman
      The author forgets about the south of the Arabian Peninsula, about the countries of the Maghreb and East Africa, where Turkey has interests.

      No, he doesn't forget. It's just a list of countries coastal to the sea where UDC is based.
      We look at the Black Sea, where the first Turkish squadron is based. Where can you land troops?

      And Mediterranean is a paragraph below. And Africa is there.
      Mediterranean Sea.

      The thought immediately arises of the Greek islands, where the two countries always have something going on. But Greece is also a member of NATO. And how much conflict can occur between them ... In general, it can.
      Italy, France, Spain - all their own.
      Africa ... Yes, Turkey had interests there, but not of such a plan to fight for them, and even so.
      Syria? Well, there are enough borders through which you can work (which is happening now), it's cheaper than driving ships. We know that we suffered with the Syrian Express.
  3. 0
    6 July 2022 05: 13
    The USSR had a svp. Second world.
    Or the first.
    The Turks will trample into Australia. The Angles will overthrow their ill-brothers if they falter in the fight against China. Replacement for Erdogan.
    "master of Antarctica" penguins and coconuts
    1. +9
      6 July 2022 05: 37
      The USSR had a GDP 2 in the world.
      Building ships is, to put it mildly, not an easy task.
      And the Turks have become very adept at this in recent years, thanks to those who destroyed the USSR, and our specialists took part in this. I personally know the engineers working there on the ropes.
      1. -5
        6 July 2022 06: 58
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
        Building ships is, to put it mildly, not an easy task.

        Yes, what are you saying? Surely, it is no more difficult than the construction of a hydroelectric power station or a nuclear power plant. True, the Heroes of Russia are not visible in this field ... Can you guess why?
        Maybe it's all about the grandmas?
        1. +6
          6 July 2022 11: 16
          Yes, what are you saying? Surely, it is no more difficult than the construction of a hydroelectric power station or a nuclear power plant.

          Perhaps YOU are right, but there is no flurry of hydroelectric power plant construction, nuclear power plants are being built - I agree.
          Just a statement of fact: the USSR could simultaneously build hydroelectric power plants, nuclear power plants, ships and ships. The Russian Federation cannot from the word at all, that is the question?
          In order to build a ship, and in the future to serve it, we do not have infrastructure or it is rapidly disappearing. Rule 1 at sea, 3 on shore.
          In the late USSR, if necessary, any "civilian" SRZ could serve a warrior. And at the same time, both the shipyards and the dock were not idle, they did not have time to serve civilians. There was a roar in the factories from morning till night. Now - silence and silence.
          Now, the question is not skill, but the lack of civilian SRH.
          And about money: the money spent on the construction of the fleet is no longer small, it is written and rewritten here in VO, and what do we have afloat there?
          hi
    2. man
      +3
      6 July 2022 13: 01
      The Turks will trample into Australia.
      No, I think the Turks want to take over Japan
  4. +11
    6 July 2022 05: 38
    Roman, the Turks have at least one such ship, but what and how we build, and what we get as a result is a big question. Knowing the desire of the naval leadership for unification, I am afraid that the fleet will also be given under-helicopter carriers. And, the Turks can easily solve the problem with the air park by purchasing a batch of their Yak130 analogues from Italy. A light machine, it is possible to use it as an attack aircraft or a light fighter.
    1. +4
      6 July 2022 08: 39
      No. Heavy finishers will be required there. I am already silent that no one will sit down with a completely calculated constructive risk to go into the superstructure today.
      1. +2
        6 July 2022 11: 58
        Donavi49 - any aircraft can be made heavier and lighter, within reasonable limits. The problem of aerofinishers is generally far-fetched, you can use the usual one with double weaving. The main thing is that the supports of the finisher can withstand, but they are designed to capture heavier aircraft.
  5. -8
    6 July 2022 05: 40
    They say that the ataman has a lot of gold reserves ...
    Those. NATO and the EU in their current form will very likely not exist in a couple of years. And everyone who can will lose heart and solve frozen and other conflicts. So, in the place of the Greeks, I would be very worried and eager to be friends with Russia with all my might, because there will be no one else to protect from the Turks.
  6. +15
    6 July 2022 05: 46
    Russian ship, with Russian machines and devices, with Russian weapons. This will be the key to future success.

    Who would argue, this has been about thirty years, but things, well, not now there ... but ...
    Take the Zaliv plant. The technology is the same as it was 30 years ago.
    People work several times less than in the USSR. At the same time, not only Kerch residents worked at the "Zaliv", but from the nearest coastal villages: Zavetnoye, for example.
    Now, from the world to the pines. Welders come to distant lands.
    Much has been lost, continuity above all: the fleet, shipbuilding, ship repair - years of development, continuity.
    Respect for work.
    Worker Zababur from "Zaliv" sat in the Supreme Soviet of the USSR.

    Those who built here, the last nuclear-powered supership, have been at least 62 years old.
    "Russian ships, with Russian cars" - this requires great work and management talent ... well, do not steal on iron.
    So far, neither one nor the other.
    1. +5
      6 July 2022 06: 19
      They dragged their tugboats to the Zaliv for repairs until 2014. Although there were two shipyards of their own. One seems to have been restored, but they say, only for the repair of military boats. And so we carry it for repairs, all over the Sea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbAzov.
      1. +6
        6 July 2022 06: 38
        Although there were two shipyards.

        Good morning Alexey!
        Where is the SRZ? The Kerch Shipyard is successfully and rapidly turning into a market. The workshop where my uncle worked is ready for a fitness center) The slip has disappeared somewhere, there is only one skewed floating ship left)
        hi
        1. +6
          6 July 2022 06: 43
          Good morning!
          Where is the SRZ?
          Yes, there .. judging by your words, like our Temryuksky, Novorossiysk .. hi
          1. +3
            6 July 2022 06: 45
            Clearly ... we are fellow countrymen good
            1. +2
              6 July 2022 15: 48
              Maybe yes..
  7. +3
    6 July 2022 06: 08
    To us, in the end, this is just a great example. In Russia, too, from time to time, searchlights of some aircraft carriers pop up for completely incomprehensible and frankly stupid purposes such as “flag demonstration”.

    As practice has shown, ships of the UDC type can be very useful to us. In general, any new ships are useful to us;

    I agree that we need new ships. For some reason, in the field of new weapons and models of equipment, the fleet stands still. We look. Tankers created "Armata". Aviation - Su-57. They also showed the Su-75, but this is a matter for the future, if it is brought to mind at all from the layout stage. Air defense systems - there’s even nothing to say: I think that according to them we are ahead of the rest of the planet by 20 years, at least. The fleet ... Okay, even if the Poseidon was built. But on the ships, the situation is simply awful.
    According to UDC. They may be needed in the event of a non-nuclear conflict with the US and NATO. But first of all, it is necessary to build not UDC, not aircraft carriers / helicopter carriers, but escort ships. What's the point of UDC if he goes in splendid isolation to the enemy's shore? We need BODs, air defense / missile defense ships, and a lot of things are needed for escort. A - no.
    1. +2
      6 July 2022 07: 19
      Now, after the failures in the Black Sea, I think little shines for the fleet, we still have a land power, it’s better to strengthen the ground forces with new armor, which everyone has been waiting for for a long time, no longer fresh novelties riding in parades, in massive quantities in the troops
      1. +4
        6 July 2022 09: 24
        The ground forces have at least some new items. Our state has not been a land power since the time of Peter the Great, but if you do not build new ships, then it can definitely become a land power. And this is unacceptable, since we have maritime borders, and the submarine in the nuclear triad occupies a rather important place.
      2. -2
        6 July 2022 16: 55
        we are still a land power, it is better to strengthen the ground forces with new armor

        belay
        Mind that we have the WORLD'S THIRD longest coastline?



        How can one be here without a fleet?
        Gobble up
        1. 0
          7 July 2022 10: 03
          How can one be here without a fleet?
          Gobble up

          Who will be devoured? Will they land at the mouth of the Yenisei and stomp towards Moscow? Or from Kamchatka...
          They only eat each other there if the bears don't get there first. laughing

          Globally (for defense) it is necessary to keep Crimea on the Black Sea and the Baltic. These questions are closed by aviation and small submarines.
          Landing operations, the need for which arises there every war, are closed not by BDKs, or even more so by UDCs, but by Zubra-type hovercraft.
          Compared to the Gren, it is much smaller, cheaper by 4 times, high-speed, lands on 70% of the coast. At the same time, transport almost as much as the BDK. Yes, the range is less, but enough even to Istanbul if anything. wink
          1. -1
            7 July 2022 10: 44
            Who will be devoured? Landed at the mouth of the Yenisei

            Will devour us
            You do not need to disembark:
            Blocking the NSR and being left without supply / delivery: they will die out or pass into the citizenship of the one who “gobbled up”
            The British had already bombarded Kamchatka during the Sevastopol War, and the Japanese landed on Sakhalin and chopped off 1/2 of it
            Globally (for defense) you need to keep Crimea on the Black and the Baltic

            stupidity, yeah
            As well as about the "bears".
            There is no fleet: there is no "owner of Chukotka" and an "air seller" will immediately appear.
            Question: "-" you put or is it all also a group of homosexuals? recourse
            1. -2
              7 July 2022 11: 03
              Blocking the NSR and being left without supply / delivery: they will die out or pass into the citizenship of the one who “gobbled up”
              The British had already bombarded Kamchatka during the Sevastopol War, and the Japanese landed on Sakhalin and chopped off 1/2 of it

              MAPL. in the Pacific and in the North. You can get by with Ladami. If we are talking about defense.

              In 1941, the leader Moskva sank off the coast of Romania, in 2022 the flagship Moskva sank in the same places. In both cases, the stories are muddy. The first one either hit a mine, or got coastal artillery, or torpedoed its own submarine.

              In the second, either the Neptunes flew by, or the sailor smoked in the wrong place. lol

              Now imagine what would happen if Ukraine thought of buying a pair of diesel-electric submarines from the Germans, pr. 212. wink
              1. -2
                7 July 2022 11: 17
                Yes, yes deer, Lada and Cossacks.
                Which no one will let out of the bay.
                Since a foreign fleet will rule there.
                Ukraine thought of buying a pair of diesel-electric submarines from the Germans, pr. 212.

                I don't even need to introduce myself. city ​​of Kiel, history, photo 1945
                1. +1
                  7 July 2022 11: 40
                  I don't even need to introduce myself. city ​​of Kiel, history, photo 1945

                  This is the result of strategic mistakes. He had to finish off England, and then meddle in the USSR.
                  But this does not negate the effectiveness of the German submarines.

                  Therefore, in the Black Sea and the Baltic: to fight the enemy's NK - aviation, diesel-electric submarines and DBK, to fight submarines - again, aviation, the PLO corvette.

                  And no UDC sheds, you need to land on this:



                  Cheap and cheerful. wink
                  1. -1
                    7 July 2022 12: 23
                    But this does not negate the effectiveness of the German submarines.

                    How the German performance in WW2 and the protection of the NSR and Delivery along the NSR and the protection of the wealth of the Arctic are related: a mystery to me
                    And no UDC sheds, you need to land on this:

                    I personally moved on this.
                    No, thanks. I would not want to land from it, and also move over the seas with okiyas.
                    And he won’t have enough fuel to get to “where he needs to go.” This is the Caspian, and even the Black Sea is already with difficulty.
  8. +5
    6 July 2022 06: 48
    You have to rely only on yourself. Russian ship, with Russian machines and devices, with Russian weapons. This will be the key to future success.

    It remains to decide on the real Russians (Russians) in power and get acquainted with their priorities.
  9. +12
    6 July 2022 07: 08
    I don’t see any trap and the Turks are great for being able to build such a ship. UAVs are developing at a rapid pace, and the Turks can now become pioneers in the use of a large number of UAVs from a similar offshore platform like a UDC or a SMALL aircraft carrier, and this is gaining experience. And what will happen in 5-8 years, no one knows, maybe the Turks will have UAVs that are in no way inferior or slightly inferior to the f-35B.
    I now think that the future belongs to aircraft carriers with UAVs, and not to modern classic
    1. +8
      6 July 2022 07: 18
      The new Bayraktar Akinci is not much inferior to the attack aircraft, SuperTucano, in terms of combat load.
      1. +4
        6 July 2022 11: 30
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        The new Bayraktar Akinci is not much inferior to the attack aircraft, SuperTucano, in terms of combat load.

        Anton, it turns out that you are not so well versed in modern aviation systems! good
        1. +5
          6 July 2022 11: 33
          Hello, Sergey!
          I'm much better at swords.
          And I just like the Brazilian attack aircraft, purely aesthetically.
          1. +6
            6 July 2022 11: 46
            Hi!
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            I'm much better at swords.

            I already understood that! Yes However, you are not obsessed with them!
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And I just like the Brazilian attack aircraft, purely aesthetically.

            Correct - American-Brazilian. I also like the A-29, a very successful car, and according to the "cost-effectiveness" criterion, it is unsurpassed.
            Perhaps you will be interested:
            Combat use of EMB-314 Super Tucano turboprop attack aircraft

            https://topwar.ru/176446-boevoe-primenenie-turbovintovyh-shturmovikov-emb-314-super-tucano.html
            1. +2
              6 July 2022 12: 05
              I have read this material.
    2. +1
      6 July 2022 17: 54
      can become pioneers in the use of a large number of UAVs

      We need a good satellite constellation, like the United States. Then the radius will already be determined purely by performance characteristics, and you can at least fill the entire hold with heavy UAVs AND bomb 24/7 until you run out hi
  10. +7
    6 July 2022 07: 55
    To whom and to mumble, but not to us. We are in this matter in general ...
  11. -1
    6 July 2022 08: 04
    In Russia, too, from time to time, searchlights of some aircraft carriers pop up for completely incomprehensible and frankly stupid purposes such as “flag demonstration”.

    wink
    Indeed, the best way to fart any idea is to take it to the point of absurdity. The fleet is needed. FLEET. Not a specific uberwafer
  12. -2
    6 July 2022 08: 40
    We look at the Black Sea, where the first Turkish squadron is based. Where can you land troops?
    Bulgaria and Romania are NATO allies. Absurd.


    Turkish landing in Bulgaria is an old Turkish idea! And today it's time to implement it under the guise of the war in Ukraine and the protection of the southern flank of NATO from the Russian invasion.
    1. +2
      7 July 2022 04: 08
      Is it okay that Ti B has a common land border and the landing is not really needed?
  13. +12
    6 July 2022 08: 53
    An article of the level I have an opinion - I ignore the facts.

    Turkish licenses produce only F-15


    The Turks do not produce F-15s under license, moreover, they do not have them at all. There are F-16s that they only modernize, and very tight (but with F4 it’s better there, and just in 18-19, one of the accusations was a creeping leak of technologies and components to Iran, where F4 suddenly gained a second youth). At the same time, a national program for the development of aircraft manufacturing was adopted with access to the national aircraft 4 +++ / 5-. She just started after leaving the F-35. The first fruit is the Turkish Hürjet, a flight prototype has already been rolled out and is flying at the end of this year.

    TF-X - the same 4+++/5- goes to 26 for the first flight.


    The control radius of "Bayraktar" from a ground station is about 150 km, from a ship it can be a little more. But "Anadolu" will have to come somewhere exactly at this distance.


    There will be hunchbacked Bayraktars with satcom. That is, you can even manage from Ankara. There will also be a new engine (Turkish PD222ST for 225 horses) which will increase the load to 280 kg, and take-off weight to almost 1,5 tons.


    This is not close to F35, but do not forget about MIUS.


    A separate class is already being formed - a helicopter-UAV carrier. And the rich are already experimenting. There are projects from DAMEN, Koreans, and the Chinese are seriously going to build it with the 4th building of their UDC. They want to become pioneers in this segment, since they have a large set of UAVs and weapons for them.
  14. +5
    6 July 2022 09: 02
    Anadolu was built not by the Spaniards, but by the Turks at the Sedef Shipbuilding Inc shipyard in Istanbul. But according to the Spanish project.
    Mistral is not very suitable for basing aircraft - it is small and not adapted. Juan Carlos is perfect.
    As for the springboard, this is not a mandatory element for VTOL aircraft, the Americans build without springboards, but for an economical take-off from a run.
    According to drones, the Turks are planning two types of them - one subsonic based on the existing Bayraktar (albeit heavily altered) and a supersonic jet, presumably with air defense capabilities. Both of them claim to be VTOL aircraft, but do not provide details. Aerofinishers are not visible on the deck.
    1. +4
      6 July 2022 09: 48
      Big Bayraktar will slow down even without finishers. In the most extreme case, you can again use the finish line grid. There will be small speeds to exclude jumping off or unpredictable rollback from the springboard.

      MIUS, even in version A, even if they screw on the reverse curtains, it won’t sit down without finishers. Still, 5 tons cannot be braked from 200 km / h.
  15. +7
    6 July 2022 09: 21
    Bayraktar is known to be able to carry about 100 kg in the form of bombs and missiles. The combat load is indicated at 150 kg, but 50 of them are a weapons control module.


    UAVs are switching to satellite control ... the Turks have a couple of sizes more already .... they can also engage in PLO, reconnaissance of targets for aviation, etc. and the Turks have already announced ammunition more seriously: KR and 220kg bombs, anti-ship missiles
    1. -1
      6 July 2022 12: 35
      And what about the range of the "bayraktar" and its bomb-rockets?
      1. +5
        6 July 2022 12: 44
        24 hours in the air .... speed, well, somewhere around 200 km per hour ....., patrolling .... in the region of 50-700 km, depending on the mission. and the Turks have Anka and Akinci
        1. -4
          6 July 2022 21: 12
          The range of the "bayraktar" is 700 km.?))) where did you read this? Akinchi is not and will not be in the near future. The engines for it have not yet been taken out of the ruins of the 32nd Progress workshop. And what they get is unlikely to go to the assembly.
  16. -8
    6 July 2022 09: 33
    Why so derogatory about helicopters? Isn't even the old Ka-27 able to clean up the nuclear submarine?
  17. -6
    6 July 2022 12: 33
    In general, the Turks can be congratulated and wish them creative Uzbeks))) they received not a mouse, not a frog, but an unknown little animal))) the most important thing - it is not clear why?
    1. +3
      6 July 2022 20: 47
      Quote: TermNachTER
      In general, the Turks can be congratulated and wish them creative Uzbeks)))

      Turkish aircraft designers are well motivated by their leadership. After 4 months of living in Turkey, two of my acquaintances changed their minds about the importance of engineering work. One of them quit trading and attended to getting an engineering education and work experience in production. It is quite possible that soon, following the example of Turkey, aircraft carriers will be equipped with drones. If Russia had such an aircraft carrier with a set of drones, Ukraine would not have the opportunity closer than 200 km from the coast to have stationary fortifications and places of crowded deployment of troops.
      1. -4
        6 July 2022 21: 06
        In my opinion, in Ukraine they explained to everyone in an accessible way - where there is normal air defense, there is nothing for UAVs to do there.
        1. +4
          6 July 2022 21: 35
          Quote: TermNachTER
          where there is normal air defense, there is nothing for the UAV to do.

          If the Ukrainians had not had combat-ready drones, they would not have moved away from Kyiv and Kharkov. Ukraine has so far received a meager number of drones. In theory, each mortar crew, or at least a platoon, should adjust the fire from their drone.
          1. -1
            6 July 2022 22: 37
            I don’t see any particular connection between the UAV and the withdrawal of Kyiv and Chernigov, there were more weighty reasons. There is nothing to say about Kharkov, everything has returned to the original ones. "Bayraktar" is not used to adjust 82 - mm. mortars. Even a whole battery.
            1. +4
              7 July 2022 00: 46
              Quote: TermNachTER
              I don’t see a special connection between the UAV and the withdrawal of Kyiv and Chernigov,

              If Russia had attack drones capable of hitting fast-moving targets, Ukrainian motorized sabotage groups would suffer unacceptable losses during attacks on supply lines. Yes, and supplying not only Lisichansk and Zolote in the environment, but also Avdiivka with ammunition would be problematic. In the next 20 years, artificial intelligence will be able to replace humans in controlling drones, just as from 1970 to 1990, artificial intelligence became able to beat the average chess player.
              1. -2
                7 July 2022 08: 33
                There are other ways to defeat. It is very difficult for an UAV to operate in the Avdiivka area - it is saturated with air defense and electronic warfare.
  18. 0
    6 July 2022 16: 42
    As practice has shown, one ancient Su-24 can do things, but here is still a dozen of the latest stealth attack aircraft ...

    belay
    Retired from life. Can you tell me more about what the Su-24 did?
    Drone carrier: aircraft carrier laughter and tears in Turkish

    what
    We would like 3 such laughter
    So why does Turkey need two hefty UDCs (by the way, these will be the largest ships in the Turkish fleet), apparently, one in the Black Sea, one in the Mediterranean?

    They have already answered
    1. +1
      7 July 2022 04: 17
      One question: will their mittens not break during the liberation of Jerusalem?
      1. 0
        7 July 2022 10: 32
        Ask them this question.
        You are closer! It’s too far for me to scream because of the Ural Mountains
      2. 0
        9 July 2022 19: 42
        For a start, read what is written there
  19. +6
    6 July 2022 17: 33
    Turkey is on the way to the production of jet drones.
    Which can also be placed on an aircraft carrier.
  20. +2
    6 July 2022 20: 43
    [quote] [/ quote] Bulgaria and Romania are NATO allies. Absurd.
    Ukraine? So we still need to ask.
    Russia? Yes, it's funny.
    Abkhazia? See point 2.
    Georgia? It also seems to have nothing to do with it. [/ Quote This ship looks good in Libya. He passed by the coast and sent 3 regiments of drones to the allies. The ship will be able to neutralize all the efforts of Egypt and Russia to support their allies. He can be sent to the Indian Ocean or the Persian Gulf to support his allies or friendly rebels, to protect the sea lanes, if some pirates take it into their heads to attack Turkish transport ships. An attack on Nigerian pirates and their bases will deter pirate attacks on Turkish ships for a long time. This ship, even at the cost of its death, is capable of destroying the Greek defenses of about. Cyprus. Perhaps Turkey will defend its interests in the near future in Abkhazia and Adjara or the interests of the Muslim diaspora in Macedonia or Bulgaria. And the Ukrainian Armed Forces, when planning an offensive against the Crimea, must take into account the ability of this boat to ensure the dominance of the Crimean Tatars over the Armed Forces of Ukraine after mutual bloodletting by Russians and Ukrainians since 2014.
  21. +3
    6 July 2022 20: 47
    There is no need to compare drones with manned aircraft. here in Russia there are not so few manned aircraft, only they all fly low low and do not poke deep into the territory of Ukraine. And drones can fly anywhere.
    1. -2
      6 July 2022 21: 18
      Quote: certero
      there are not so few manned aircraft in Russia, only they all fly low low and do not poke deep into the territory of Ukraine

      Correctly. Why?

      Quote: certero
      And drones can fly anywhere

      Also - why?
  22. 0
    7 July 2022 14: 33
    at one time the dream of our "Syrian Express"
  23. +1
    8 July 2022 03: 33
    By the way, on the same UDC of the WASP type, the Americans carry ammunition and fuel for the landing for 4-5 days of hostilities.

    And 10+ F-35Bs. In terms of range, shock capabilities - almost a deck-based F-18, but the latter is solidly superior in combat-out-of-sight.
  24. 0
    8 July 2022 16: 56
    We are waiting for the era of UAVs for various tactical / operational-tactical / strategic purposes. Including sea-based. To not understand or deny this is to be a moron. The fact that the Turks are actively engaged in UAVs and have achieved good results, they are great fellows! We need to immediately forcefully engage in this topic. And instead we "kill" our aviation design bureaus. The civil aviation industry has already been destroyed, now we are disentangling.
  25. 0
    9 July 2022 19: 06
    Author minus bold. The Sultan needs show-offs, and so on. Not seriously. And he also does not know that there will not be a bayraktar tb2, but a new other tb3 and mius
  26. 0
    20 July 2022 10: 59
    "Trakia" will be named? Ominously. The region of Trakia is 80% in Bulgaria. What kind of Russia, if they were called "Crimea"?
  27. 0
    20 July 2022 22: 07
    Quote from uRRY
    Is it okay that T and B have a common land border and the landing is not really needed?

    The Turks really need a landing in the North. Bulgaria. And then through the mountains from the South it will not break through.
  28. 0
    17 August 2022 19: 57
    1. "- The idea of ​​an assassination attempt is as simple as a Columbus egg!
    - As well as the fact that Pankratz is waiting for you!
    (J. Hasek).
    2. On a small deck, UAVs will be quite out of place
    3. Adjara to strain rolls.
  29. 0
    21 August 2022 14: 57
    They will take f16 and make a drone like a hunter, less current.

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