Military Review

Best in class: Mi-28H and AH-64D Apache Longbow

215
The other day came from India unpleasant news. The tender for the purchase of attack helicopters was won not by the Russian Mi-28H, but by the American Boeing AH-64D Apache Longbow. The “long-suffering” competition, despite some unfavorable predictions regarding its outcome, is still over, even if not in favor of Russian helicopter builders. Recall, for the first time, the desire to buy an 22 attack helicopter from New Delhi was announced back in the 2008 year. Russia then presented the Ka-50, and the European firms EADS and Augusta Westland were competitors. A little later, the Americans from Bell and Boeing joined the competition. In general, the result of the competition was unpredictable. However, everything ended as no one could have expected: less than a year after the start, the Indians turned off the tender. True, after a few months it was continued, but with a new composition of participants.




Mi-28H participated in the renewed competition from Russia, and the United States presented its Apache Longbow. After comparing the documentation and submitted helicopters, the Indian military took a specific position. On the one hand, they were satisfied by the Russian Mi-28H. On the other hand, it was clear from the statements and actions of potential customers that they would hardly buy this helicopter. As an explanation of these "double standards", the Indians are sometimes reluctant to buy weapons and military equipment from only one country. This is completely understandable: India is currently the world's largest buyer. weapons. Naturally, New Delhi does not want to order weapons only from Russia and receive a number of specific problems associated with spare parts, etc. As a result, as already mentioned, the American project was chosen as the winner. In the coming years, the Boeing company will receive about one and a half billion dollars and send to India more than two brand new attack helicopters.

Best in class: Mi-28H and AH-64D Apache Longbow


The outcome of the Indian tender for the Russian public looks sad. Naturally, the expected gossip and comparisons of our Mi-28H with the American Apache immediately began. As a matter of fact, these discussions have been going on for more than one year and now their next round has just begun. Let's try to compare these machines, which by right are the embodiment of the most advanced technologies in the helicopter industry of the two countries.

Technical specifications

First of all, it is necessary to touch upon the concept of application, in accordance with which Mi-28Н and AH-64 were created. The American helicopter was designed to become a carrier of precision weapons designed to attack enemy equipment and objects. In the future, it was planned to equip it with equipment for all-weather work and new weapons. All this most directly affected the appearance of the finished machine. The Soviet / Russian helicopter, in turn, continued the concept of an attack aircraft, a helicopter direct support for troops. However, unlike the previous shock of the Mi-24, the Mi-28 was not supposed to carry soldiers. Nevertheless, the Soviet project meant the installation of a wide range of weapons, designed both to combat the enemy's manpower and to destroy armored vehicles. The main work on both projects was started at about the same time, but a number of technical problems, and then economic difficulties, “spread out” the start of serial production of helicopters for more than twenty years. In the past since the beginning of the production time, several modifications of both helicopters were created. Of these, only AH-64D Apache Longbow and Mi-28H went to the large series.

AH-64D Apache 101 aviation US Army Regiment in Iraq


We begin the comparison of helicopters with their weight and size parameters. The empty Mi-28H is almost one and a half times heavier than the “American” - 7900 kg versus 5350. A similar situation is observed with normal take-off weight, which in the Apache is equal to 7530 kilograms, and in the Mi-28Н - 10900. The maximum take-off weight of both helicopters is about a ton more than normal. And yet a much more important parameter for a combat vehicle is the mass of the payload. The Mi-28Н carries almost two times more weight on the suspensions than the “Apache” - 1600 kilogram. The only drawback of a larger payload is the need for a more powerful engine. So, the Mi-28H is equipped with two TV3-117ВМА turboshaft engines with a take-off power of 2200 horsepower. Engines "Apache" - two General Electric T-700GE-701C 1890 HP on takeoff mode. Thus, the American helicopter has a large power density - about 400-405 HP. per tonne normal take-off weight than the Mi-28H.

In addition, it is necessary to consider the load on the screw. With a rotor diameter in 14,6 meters, the AH-64D has a floppy disk in 168 square meters. The larger Mi-28H propeller with a 17,2 meter diameter gives this helicopter a disc area of ​​232 sq.m. Thus, the load on the disk in the Apache Longbow and the Mi-28H with a normal take-off weight is 44 and 46 kilograms per square meter, respectively. At the same time, despite the lower load on the screw, in terms of speed, the Apache Longbow wins the Mi-28H only at the maximum allowable speed. In an emergency, the American helicopter can accelerate to 365 km / h. The Russian helicopter in this parameter is several tens of kilometers per hour. The cruising speed of both helicopters is about the same - 265-270 km / h. As for the flight range, here is the leader of the Mi-28H. With a full refueling of its own tanks, it can fly up to 450 kilometers, which is 45-50 kilometers more than AH-64D. The static and dynamic ceilings of the considered machines are approximately equal.

Mi-28H board №37 yellow at the exhibition MAKS-2007, Ramenskoye, 26.08.2007 (photo - Fedor Borisov, http://www.airliners.net)


Guns and unguided weapons

It should be noted that the weight and flight data are actually a means of ensuring the delivery of weapons to the place of their use. It is in the composition of weapons and related equipment that the most serious differences of the Apache Longbow and the Mi-28Н lie. In general, the set of weapons is relatively similar: helicopters carry an automatic gun, unguided and guided weapons; Ammunition composition may vary depending on the need. A constant part of the weapons of both helicopters remain guns. In the nose of the helicopter Mi-28H there is a mobile cannon mount NPPU-28 with a gun 2А42 of millimeter 30 caliber. The automatic gun of the Russian helicopter, among other things, is interesting because it was borrowed from the armament complex of the BMP-2 and BMD-2 ground combat vehicles. Due to this origin, 2А42 can hit manpower and lightly armored enemy vehicles at distances of at least two or three kilometers. The maximum effective range of fire is four kilometers. On the American helicopter AH-64D, in turn, the 30-mm M230 Chain Gun cannon is mounted in the mobile unit. With the same caliber as the 2А42, the American gun differs from it in its characteristics. Thus, “Chain Gan” has a higher rate of fire - about 620 rounds per minute versus 500 on 2А42. At the same time, M230 uses the 30x113 mm projectile, and 2A42 uses the 30x165 mm. Because of the smaller weight of gunpowder in the projectiles and the shorter barrel, the Chain Gun has a smaller effective fire range: about 1,5-2 kilometers. In addition, it should be noted that 2А42 is an automatic gun with a vapor system, and M230, as its name implies, is made according to the scheme of an automatic gun with an external drive. Thus, the “Chain Gan” requires an external power supply to operate the automation. As practice shows, such a system is viable and efficient, but in some countries it is considered that the aircraft gun must be “self-sufficient” and not require any external sources of energy. The barrel arms of the Mi-28H helicopter are the product of this very concept. The only parameter by which the Apache Longbow cannon surpasses the installation of the MTPU-28 is the ammunition load. The American helicopter carries up to 1200 shells, Russian - four times less.

The rest of the weapons of both helicopters is mounted on four pylons under the wing. Universal holders allow you to hang a wide range of weapons. It is worth noting that of the helicopters in question, only Mi-28H has the ability to use bombs. The fact is that the guided bombs in NATO have too much weight for AH-64D to take in enough. At the same time, the payload of the Mi-28H in 1600 kg does not allow to suspend more than three bombs of the caliber 500 kg, which is clearly not enough for most tasks. It is worth noting that at the development stage of the Apache project, American engineers and the military abandoned the idea of ​​a helicopter bomber. The possibility of carrying and using guided bombs was considered, but the relatively small payload of the helicopter did not, as a result, make it possible to fully implement this idea. For this reason, both the AH-64D and the Mi-28H are mainly “using” missile weapons.



A characteristic distinction of the helicopters is the range of used unguided missiles. The American Apache Longbow carries only Hydra 70 rocket caliber 70 mm. Depending on the need, launch pads with a capacity of up to 19 unguided missiles (M261 or LAU-61 / A) can be mounted on the pylons of the helicopter. Thus, the maximum stock is 76 missiles. In this case, the instructions for the operation of the helicopter are advised to take no more than two units with NAR - these recommendations are due to the maximum payload. Mi-28H was originally created as a helicopter of the battlefield, which influenced the nomenclature of unguided weapons. In one configuration or another, the Russian helicopter can carry a wide range of unguided aircraft in large quantities. For example, when installing blocks for C-8 missiles, the maximum ammunition is 80 rockets. In the case of the use of heavier C-13 ammunition is four times less. In addition, the Mi-28H, if necessary, can carry containers with machine guns or cannons, as well as unguided bombs and incendiary tanks of the appropriate caliber.

Mi-28H board №08 blue at the air base in Budennovsk, 2010. The helicopter is equipped with a complete set of on-board defense complex - containers with IR traps, sensors SPO, etc. (photo - Alex Beltyukov, http://www.airliners.net)


Guided weapons

Such an advantage in relation to unguided weapons is due to the initial concept of the use of helicopters. Apache, and then Apache Longbow, was created as a hunter for enemy armored vehicles, which affected its entire appearance and weapons in the first place. In the early stages of development, the intended use of the future attack helicopter was seen as follows. The helicopter junction is on the intended path of an enemy mechanized column and is waiting for a reconnaissance signal or is independently looking for targets. When approaching tanks or other enemy armored vehicles, helicopters, hiding under the folds of terrain, "jump out" to the launch point and launch an attack with anti-tank missiles. First of all, it was necessary to knock out anti-aircraft self-propelled guns, after which it was possible to destroy other equipment. Initially, the BGM-64 TOW guided missiles were considered the main weapons for the AH-71. However, their relatively short range - no more than four kilometers - could lead to sad consequences for the pilots. In the mid-seventies, the USSR and its allies were armed with military air defense systems capable of fighting targets at such distances. Therefore, the attacking helicopter during the guidance of the TOW missile risked being shot down. As a result, I had to look for a new weapon, which was the AGM-114 Hellfire missile. In the early versions of this missile, semi-active radar guidance was used, but then, for various reasons, experiments began with other types of homing. As a result, in 1998, the AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire missile, designed specifically for the AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopter, was adopted. From the previous modifications, it is primarily distinguished by homing equipment. For the first time in the Hellfire family, an original combination of inertial and radar guidance was used. Immediately before launch, the helicopter’s onboard equipment transmits to the missile data regarding the target: the direction and distance to it, as well as the parameters of the helicopter and the enemy’s machine. To do this, the helicopter is forced to "jump out" for several seconds due to natural shelter. At the end of the “jump”, a rocket is launched. Hellfire Longbow independently enters the approximate target area using an inertial guidance system, after which it includes an active radar system that captures the target and finally guides it. This guidance method actually allows you to limit the launch range only to the characteristics of the rocket engine. Currently, Hellfire fly at a range of about 8-10 km. A characteristic feature of the updated Hellfire missile is the absence of the need for constant illumination of the target by helicopter or ground units. At the same time, the AGM-114L is much more expensive than previous modifications of this missile, however, the difference in the cost of ammunition is more than compensated by the destruction of the enemy armored car.



The Mi-28Н helicopter, in turn, was created as an air support vehicle, including the destruction of armored targets. For this reason, its armament is more universal than specialized. To combat the enemy’s armored vehicles, the Mi-28H can be equipped with “Storm” guided missiles or a newer type “Attack-V”. On the pylons of the helicopter is placed up to 16 missiles of one or another model. Russian anti-tank missiles use a different guidance system than the US. “Storm” and its deep modernization “Attack-V” use radio command guidance. This technical solution has both advantages and disadvantages. The positive features of the applied command system relate to the simplicity and low cost of the rocket. In addition, the lack of need for heavy equipment for self-guidance allows you to make either more compact rockets, or equip them with a more powerful warhead. As a result, the base missile of the Attack complex of the 9М120 model delivers a tandem cumulative warhead with a penetrability of at least 800 mm of homogeneous armor to a distance of six kilometers. There is information about the existence of new versions of the rocket, having the best indicators of armor penetration and range. However, for these qualities have to pay. Radio command guidance requires installation on a helicopter of relatively complex equipment for capturing and tracking a target, as well as for generating and sending commands for a rocket. Thus, the helicopter does not have the ability to use anti-tank weapons in a “jump” mode for tracking and guiding the missile. Radio command guidance requires a relatively long stay in the zone of visibility of the enemy, which exposes the helicopter to the danger of a retaliatory attack. For this, the onboard equipment of the Mi-28H has the ability to change the direction of the control radiation. The rotating unit of the transmitting antenna and the tracking equipment for the rocket allows the helicopter to maneuver along the yaw within 110 ° from the launch direction and tilt up to 30 ° from the horizontal. Of course, such opportunities in certain circumstances may turn out to be insufficient, which, however, is compensated by the missile’s sufficient range and its high speed. In other words, with a successful set of circumstances, the anti-tank missile of the Ataka-V complex will be able to destroy the enemy anti-aircraft system before it has time to launch the missile in response. At the same time, do not forget about the trends of recent years, implying a complete transition to the concept of "shot-forgotten."

For self-defense, both helicopters can carry air-to-air guided missiles. For this purpose, the Mi-28H is equipped with four short-range P-60 missiles with an infra-red homing head; AH-64D - AIM-92 Stinger or AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles with similar guidance systems.



Crew and protection systems

When building Mi-28 and AH-64 helicopters, customers expressed the wish to get combat vehicles with a crew of two. This requirement was due to the desire to facilitate the work of the helicopter pilots. Thus, the crew of both helicopters consists of two people - the pilot and the navigator-operator. Another feature that unites helicopters concerns the location of the pilots. The designers of Mil and McDonnell Douglas (she developed Apache before being bought by Boeing), together with the military, came to the conclusion regarding the optimal placement of crew jobs. The tandem arrangement of the two cockpits made it possible to reduce the width of the fuselage, improve visibility from workplaces, and also provide both pilots with a complete set of equipment necessary for piloting and / or using weapons. It is noteworthy that the helicopters under consideration are not only united by the idea of ​​crew accommodation. On both helicopters, the cockpit is located behind and above the cockpit of the weapon operator. Approximately similar and the compositions of the equipment booths. Thus, the pilot of the Mi-28H or AH-64D helicopter has at its disposal the entire set of flight instruments, as well as some means for the use of weapons, primarily unguided rocket launchers. Navigators-operators, in turn, also have the ability to control the flight, but their jobs are seriously equipped to use all types of weapons.

Separately, it is worthwhile to dwell on security systems. Being at a short distance from the enemy, the helicopter of the battlefield risks falling under the fire of enemy anti-aircraft artillery or becoming a target for guided missiles. As a result, some protection is required. The main element of the booking Mi-28H is a metal "bath", made of 10-mm aluminum armor. Ceramic tiles with a thickness of 16 mm are installed on top of the aluminum construction. Polyurethane sheets are laid between the layer of metal and ceramics. Such a composite reservation can withstand shelling from NATO NATO 20-mm guns. The design of the doors to reduce weight is a "sandwich" of two aluminum plates and a polyurethane block. Cabin glazing is made of silicate blocks with a thickness of 22 mm (side windows) and 44 mm (frontal). Cabin windshields withstand 12,7-mm bullets, while side windows protect against rifle weapons. Reservations also have some vital construction units.



In case the armor did not save the helicopter from critical damage, there are two ways to save the crew. At heights of over one hundred meters above the surface, the main rotor blades, the doors of both cabins and wings are shot, after which special ballonets are inflated, protecting the pilots from strikes against the structural elements. Then the pilots independently leave the helicopter with a parachute. In case of an accident at lower altitudes, where it is not possible to escape with a parachute, the Mi-28H has one more set of measures to save the crew. In case of an accident at an altitude of less than one hundred meters, the automatics tighten the pilot's seat belts and fix them in the correct posture. After that, the helicopter is reduced with the permissible speed in autorotation mode. When landing, the helicopter landing gear and specially designed pilot seats of the Pamir, developed in Zvezda Scientific and Production Enterprise, take over most of the overload that occurs when you touch it. Overloading the order of 50-60 units when structural elements are destroyed is extinguished to 15-17.

The armor protection of the AH-64D helicopter is generally similar to the armor of the Mi-28H, with the difference that the American helicopter is lighter and smaller than the Russian one. As a result, the Apache Longbow cab protects pilots only from millimeter 12,7 caliber bullets. In case of more serious damage between the cabins, there is an armored partition that protects from fragments of shells of caliber up to 23 mm. The overload cancellation system is generally similar to the package of measures taken by the Russian helicopter. The effectiveness of its work can be judged by several known facts. So, at the beginning of this year, a video from Afghanistan was distributed on the Internet, where American pilots on the Apache performed aerobatics in conditions of rarefied mountain air. The pilot did not take into account some of the parameters of the atmosphere, because of which the helicopter literally rode on the ground. Later it turned out that the crew got off with a slight fright and a couple of abrasions, and after a short repair the helicopter went back into service.

Helicopter Mi-28H board No. 50 yellow from a batch of helicopters transferred to the Air Force at 344 air base TSBPiPLLS AA 8 October 2011, Torzhok, Tver region (photo by Sergey Ablogin, http://ablogin.ru/)


Radio electronic equipment

One of the main elements of the Mi-28H and AH-64D Apache Longbow projects is radio electronic equipment. Improving the characteristics of military air defense systems has led to the fact that the concept of the attack helicopter has another point: new machines should have the ability to quickly detect and identify targets at relatively long distances. To do this, it was necessary to equip the helicopter with a radar station and new computing systems. The first such modernization was carried out by the Americans, installing the Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman AN / APG-64 Longbow radar on AH-78D.

The most conspicuous part of this station is its antenna, which is placed in the fairing above the screw hub. The rest of the equipment of the Longbow radar is mounted in the fuselage. The radar can operate in three modes: by ground targets, by air, and to track the terrain. In the first case, the station “scans” a sector wide in 45 ° to the right and left of the flight direction and detects targets at distances up to 10-12 kilometers. At these distances, the station can track up to 256 targets and simultaneously determine their type. Based on the characteristic nuances of the reflected radio signal, the AN / APG-78 station automatically determines which object it comes from. In memory of the radar there are signatures of tanks, self-propelled self-propelled guns, helicopters and airplanes. Due to this, the weapon operator has the ability to pre-determine priority targets and pre-configure the AGM-114L rocket, passing on the parameters of the selected target. In the event that it is impossible to accurately determine the danger of an object, a radio frequency interferometer antenna is mounted in the lower part of the Longbow radome radar. This device receives signals emitted by other combat vehicles, and determines the direction to their source. Thus, by comparing data from the radar station and the interferometer, the weapon operator can with high accuracy find the most dangerous enemy armored object. After the detection and introduction of target parameters, the pilot makes a “jump”, and the navigator launches a rocket.



The AN / APG-78 radar operating mode for aerial targets implies a circular view of the surrounding space with the definition of three types of targets: airplanes, as well as moving and frozen helicopters. As for the tracking mode of the terrain, in this case, "Longbow" provides low-altitude flight, including in adverse weather conditions. It is interesting to display information about the surface: so that the pilot was not distracted by the mass of symbols, only those obstacles whose height is approximately equal to or higher than the height of the helicopter’s flight are displayed on the radar screen. Due to this, the pilot does not waste time on identifying those objects and landscape elements that can be simply ignored because of their safety.

It is worth noting that, in addition to the new AN / APG-78 radar, Apache Longbow avionics also includes other more familiar systems. The integrated weapons control system, if necessary, allows the use of TADS, PNVS, etc. equipment. In addition, the helicopter AH-64D used a new system of identification "friend or foe", among other things, automatically blocking attempts to make an attack on an object identified as its own. This opportunity was added in connection with the repeated incidents of strikes against our own and allied forces through the fault of reconnaissance and target designation. According to various calculations, the combat effectiveness of the AH-64D helicopter equipped with the Longbow radar is up to four times higher than that of the base vehicle. Survival at the same time increased almost sevenfold.

The basis of the on-board radio-electronic equipment of the Mi-28H helicopter and its main "highlight" is the H-025 radar developed by the Ryazan State Instrument Plant (GRPS). It is worth noting that there is some confusion regarding the radar for the domestic helicopter. Because of the rather complicated stories the choice of equipment for the Mi-28H, a number of sources mention the use of the Arbalet radar, created at the NIIR Phasotron. As in the case of AN / APG-78 Longbow, the antenna of the H-025 station is placed inside the fairing on the rotor hub. At the same time, there are differences. First of all, they relate to methods of application. Unlike the "Longbow", the domestic station has only two modes of operation: by land and by air. The pride of the developers of the station from the GPP are its characteristics when working on the ground. The H-025 station has a wider viewing area of ​​the underlying surface than the AN / APG-78, its width is equal to 120 degrees. The maximum range of "visibility" radar - 32 km. At the same distance, the automatic equipment of the radar station is able to make an approximate map of the area. With regard to the detection and identification of targets, these parameters H-025 are approximately equal to the corresponding characteristics of AN / APG-78. Large objects like bridges are “visible” from a distance of about 25 kilometers. Tanks and similar armored vehicles - with half the distances. The air-to-surface radar mode of operation provides pilotage at low altitudes in all weather conditions and at any time of the day. For this, the H-025 has the ability to detect small objects, such as trees or power line poles. Moreover, at a distance of the order of 400 meters, the Mi-28Н radar can even recognize individual power lines. Another interesting feature of the mapping system is its function of creating a three-dimensional image. If necessary, the crew can “shoot” the area in front of the helicopter using the radar and carefully study it using the 3D model displayed on the screen.

Mi-28N serial No. 07-01 board No. 26 blue in Rostov on Air Day Fleet Russia, August 19.08.2012, XNUMX (photo - ErikRostovSpotter, http://aviaforum.ru)


When the radar is switched to air-to-air mode, the antenna starts a circular rotation, scanning all the surrounding space in azimuth. The vertical viewing area is 60 ° wide. The detection range for “aircraft” targets is within 14-16 kilometers. Anti-aircraft and aircraft missiles "visible" from a distance of about 5-6 km. In the “over the air” mode, the H-025 radar can track up to twenty targets and transmit data about them to other helicopters. A reservation should be made: information on air targets, both on the Mi-28H and AH-64D is used only for analyzing possible risks and transmitting data to other combat vehicles. Air-to-air missiles P-60 or AIM-92, designed for self-defense, are equipped with infrared homing heads and, as a result, do not require prior data transmission from helicopter systems. In addition to the H-025 radar, the Mi-28H has an integrated weapon control system that allows you to use all available weapons in various conditions.

Who is better?

Comparing AH-64D Apache Longbow and Mi-28H helicopters is a rather specific and difficult affair. Of course, both helicopters belong to the class of attack helicopters. However, they share equally and common features and differences. For example, for an ignorant person, both helicopters look quite similar. But on closer examination, differences in size, armament, etc. are striking. Finally, when studying the history of the helicopters in question, it turns out that they differ even at the level of the concept of application. In this regard, two quite different helicopters were created. If you do not go into technical details, the Apache Longbow is a relatively small and light helicopter, the task of which is to "shoot" enemy tanks from a long distance. In addition, the newest version of the AH-64 helicopter was able to conduct operations at any time of the day and in any weather conditions, of course, when it is possible to rise into the air. Mi-28Н, in turn, was created as a significant reworking of its “older brother” Mi-24, which did not receive a cargo compartment, but acquired new weaponry. As a result, the Mi-28H was quite large and heavy, which made it possible to increase both the ammunition and the range of available weapons. At the same time, the Russian helicopter, taking into account the current trends in the development of rotary-winged aircraft and foreign experience, received its own radar station, which significantly increased its combat potential. At the same time, in spite of the new capabilities in the range of attack of targets, the Mi-28Н retained the ability to “hover” over the enemy’s head and attacks from short distances. As for the combat potential of helicopters, it is impossible to compare it at all - only the Apache Longbow participated in the actual battles of the vehicles in question.




Thus, AH-64D Apache Longbow and Mi-28H are both similar and not. It is not difficult to guess that the main differences relate to weapons and the method of its use. Accordingly, it is these qualities of helicopters that should be the main factor influencing the choice of the winner in tenders for the purchase of equipment. It seems that the Indian military, torn between two great options, still decided to get lighter helicopters, "sharpened" to fight the enemy's armored vehicles. But Iraq, unlike India, apparently, preferred a more versatile impact machine in the face of the Mi-28H. Recently, official sources from the administrations of Russia and Iraq have confirmed that in the coming years, an Arab country will receive three dozen Mi-28H helicopters in export version and more than forty Pantsir-C1 air defense missile systems. The total amount of contracts exceeded four billion US dollars. As you can see, the helicopters AH-64D and Mi-28H are good. And each is good in his own way, which, however, does not prevent them from finding new customers.


On the materials of the sites:
http://airwar.ru/
http://army-technology.com/
http://kbm.ru/
http://zvezda-npp.ru/
http://lockheedmartin.com/
http://airbase.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://lenta.ru/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
Author:
215 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. snek
    snek 11 October 2012 08: 20 New
    37
    As for the combat potential of helicopters, it is impossible to compare it at all - only Apache Longbow participated in real battles from the vehicles under consideration.

    And this is his very important advantage in the eyes of any buyer.
    1. Kazak_30
      Kazak_30 11 October 2012 09: 06 New
      18
      Absolutely agree! But the American always fought with those who are weaker, and when the country's air defense is very strong, then I would have looked ...
      1. Tirpitz
        Tirpitz 11 October 2012 10: 04 New
        19
        Quote: Kazak_30
        and when the country's air defense is very strong, then I would have looked ..

        Then the Mi-28, too, will not fight much.
        1. rjhgec55v
          rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 15: 36 New
          +2
          You again forgot the different purpose of helicopters. Amer helicopter - shot and flew away to return fire. our helicopter is like a tank directly on the battlefield .. capable of withstanding machine gun fire of the enemy
      2. crazyrom
        crazyrom 12 October 2012 01: 01 New
        11
        Quote: Kazak_30
        But the American always fought with those who are weaker

        And it was for this purpose that they created, fly in, hit tanks on the turret and fly away until they knocked themselves.

        And our Mi - a rambo helicopter, flies into the thick of the battle, wets everyone in a row (by the way, this is well shown in the Rambo 3 movie itself).

        Apache is not intended for battle, it’s so, to quietly launch rockets and go home ...
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 12 October 2012 01: 13 New
          +3
          Well you are burning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! laughing
        2. SenyaYa
          SenyaYa 15 October 2012 22: 31 New
          -5
          nonsense of a madman) the difference in booking is insignificant, which prompted you to think that mi was the 26th rotalebo .... the logic of a 3 year old baby
          1. rjhgec55v
            rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 15: 39 New
            0
            READ THE TEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Different purposes of helicopters ... our attack of the enemy in counteracting the enemy, Amer. does not come directly into contact with the enemy .. shot and flew away ..
    2. Civil
      Civil 11 October 2012 10: 40 New
      0
      The reason for the loss is precisely the unavailability of the radar Crossbow, which pulls something
      1. Ustin
        Ustin 11 October 2012 14: 38 New
        +8
        The current Commander-in-Chief of the Indian Air Force, England and the United States considers the most worthy countries in the world, even when he was the commander of the base he repeatedly propagated this. I asked myself to call Jiri Brown. Everything Russian was always biased to put it mildly. And given their mentality, even with better technical characteristics of the equipment, nothing shone there for us.
        1. Hon
          Hon 12 October 2012 11: 53 New
          +2
          At the same time, India buys our fighters, and together with us develops a 5th generation fighter. Somehow it does not fit with bias. It was necessary to put up for the Ka 52 competition, then it would be more likely to get this contract.
          1. Ustin
            Ustin 12 October 2012 14: 37 New
            +1
            I know a little how she has been buying them for the last 20 years, so to speak, in dynamics, everything is not so simple there, and lobbying is getting stronger every time, and the "players" on this field have increased and the attitude towards us has long been different, so the chances there were few.
            1. Hon
              Hon 12 October 2012 15: 36 New
              +1
              This is naturally India a tidbit to fight for! Who said it would be easy? You need to be the best to receive contracts. In addition, our several times have shown themselves not on the best side, not meeting deadlines and delivering products of inadequate quality.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 11 October 2012 15: 46 New
        -7
        Not only. 28 lost on 20 points
      3. VAF
        VAF 11 October 2012 17: 17 New
        17
        Quote: Civil
        The reason for the loss is the unavailability of the radar Crossbow


        Well, how much can you repeat ........ DOES NOT COST A REDBAND RADAR on the Mi-28 .. DOES NOT WORTH !!!

        He has his own supra-muzzle H025 !!!!!



        A radar crossbow on the Ka-52nd, in the bow !!!

        1. sasha127
          sasha127 12 October 2012 16: 30 New
          +1
          And what is the dispute in the article clearly stated that the Mi-28 helicopter stormtrooper is designed to support troops directly on the battlefield. Apache's task is to shoot missiles from behind the backs of his troops.
          1. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 18 October 2012 13: 44 New
            0
            Yes, you can write everything, MI-28 is not MI-24, HE was the first and really attack aircraft, He was not only the first but also the only one in this role, APACH appeared after him. He took the best everything he could from MI-24, And ours It took me a long time to launch the series, But the war has changed, I believe that our MI-28 will be brought to mind and maybe it will give odds to the Yankees, After all, we are the parents of this system. The descendant of MI-24 cannot be worse. the sky
        2. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 12 October 2012 19: 33 New
          0
          Quote: vaf
          He has his own supra-muzzle H025 !!!!!

          TTX radar N-025E (2011):
          Frequency Range - Ka
          The number of simultaneously accompanied goals - 4
          Range - 20 km
          Hazardous weather detection range - up to 100 km
          Review time - no more than 1 sec
          Azimuth Viewing Area - 180 Degree Sector
          The viewing area in elevation is from -25 to + 15 degrees.
          Sector of search for ground targets in azimuth - 90 degrees
          Sector of search for ground targets by elevation - 35 degrees
          Sector of search for air targets in azimuth - 180 degrees
          Sector of search for air targets by elevation - 4-12 degrees
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 12 October 2012 21: 05 New
            +3
            Appearance of Н025Э
      4. wasjasibirjac
        wasjasibirjac 13 October 2012 05: 43 New
        +1
        the reasons for the loss are politics. Well, I want Indian politicians to diversify arms supplies, so as not to be dependent only on one country - their right. and the competition so that it would not be so insulting
    3. Region71
      Region71 11 October 2012 12: 41 New
      +7
      Quote: snek
      real battles involved only Apache Longbow

      Yes, that really says it all.
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 11 October 2012 13: 41 New
        -4
        Our turntable needs to increase the ammunition load of the gun and then he will not have a price !!!
        1. Simon bolivar
          Simon bolivar 11 October 2012 16: 24 New
          -6
          I have not read the article, but this topic is already just infuriating.
          It has long been clear to everyone that only ka52, as a two-seat modification of a shark and Comanche, which is super expensive, can be the best. And those presented are nothing more than average.
          1. patsantre
            patsantre 11 October 2012 18: 21 New
            +2
            Both of these helicopters are not attack, but reconnaissance and attack, this is a different class in the first place. Secondly, they themselves are much more expensive than attack aircraft, which makes their mass application difficult. Thirdly, the Ka-52 can be called the best with a stretch. Without over-gun radar and missiles with an active seeker, he, like the Mi-28, unlike the Apache, can’t systematically destroy the enemy’s armored vehicles, hiding behind shelters with precision shots. Yes, and in electronics, the Apache loses.
            1. Simon bolivar
              Simon bolivar 11 October 2012 22: 36 New
              -5
              reconnaissance-shock-only Comanche
              The ka52 is the best attack helicopter to date, only Russia can’t see it in large quantities, with the money needed to create one ka52, four mi28n can be built.
              1. Marine One
                Marine One 12 October 2012 14: 30 New
                +3
                The Comanche program is closed 8 years ago. The drones were cheaper and easier for tasks designed for that helicopter.
                1. Simon bolivar
                  Simon bolivar 12 October 2012 21: 03 New
                  0
                  And? This does not prevent him from being awarded second place in the ranking of the best attack helicopters in the world.
        2. patsantre
          patsantre 11 October 2012 18: 18 New
          0
          What will this achieve?
          That would be normal rockets for him, like hellfire + electronics are better, then the truth will not be the price.
          1. Simon bolivar
            Simon bolivar 11 October 2012 22: 40 New
            11
            You kid is an extremely sharp nickname, and you are pretty sharp at all, and you should know that all mega-fuck-cool American ammunition has a built-in function: to destroy the FAST kiddies so that they do not bring us the light of knowledge, and we still wandered into ignorance.
            But seriously, if American weapons were at least half as good as painted, the whole world would have become American long ago.
          2. crazyrom
            crazyrom 12 October 2012 01: 05 New
            0
            Quote: patsantre
            That would be normal rockets for him, like hellfire

            but they are, read the article. The only bad thing is that they need to be monitored (and not shot + forgot), but still there. Of course follow = bad.
        3. crazyrom
          crazyrom 12 October 2012 01: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: nycsson
          Our turntable needs to increase the ammunition load of the gun and then he will not have a price !!!


          indeed, 300 bullets are worthless, although they are thick, but there are only 300 of them, you won’t get so many ...
          1. rjhgec55v
            rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 15: 47 New
            0
            Watch amer movies for less. They shoot there in bursts of 10 minutes. Reality - single shooting at 5 shells ..
            instead of a ton of bullets, an excess rocket would be better
            MI-28 has more missiles .. which means damage it can do more

            Example A-18 amer attack aircraft, put on him six barrel hepshit and zero sense, huge consumption of bullets, the tank does not break through. the infantry also does not work, too much dispersion of ammunition ... only in the movies effectively shoots ... in the end, this attack aircraft only shoots missiles ..
            1. Professor
              Professor 29 October 2012 16: 03 New
              0
              Example A-18 amer attack aircraft, put on him six barrel hepshit and zero sense, huge consumption of bullets, the tank does not break through. the infantry also does not work, too much dispersion of ammunition ... only in the movies effectively shoots ... in the end, this attack aircraft only shoots missiles ..

              you determined storyteller
              What kind of attack aircraft such A-18? Is this not so?
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7efdCTsk8I

              huge ammo consumption

              shells?

              the tank does not break through

              no matter what they do, the coconut does not bloom ... fellow
        4. rjhgec55v
          rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 15: 42 New
          -1
          And why so many rounds ... it’s being watered for hours in enemy’s bullets in reality in reality after a minute of intensive shooting and a kapets cannon .. they shoot in batches of 5 rounds ... so this is overweight
      2. Hon
        Hon 12 October 2012 08: 24 New
        0
        Ka 52 also participated in the battles, and proved to be excellent.
        1. Marine One
          Marine One 12 October 2012 15: 35 New
          +3
          Quote: Hon
          Ka 52 also participated in the battles, and proved to be excellent.


          And you do not confuse with KA-50? 52nd only in 1997 took off as a layout; and prototypes appeared only in 2008.
        2. Witold
          Witold 26 June 2016 09: 07 New
          -1
          Only 2 SC participated in the Chechen. KA-50 and KA-29
          http://www.airforce.ru/content/daidzhest-1/208-proverka-boem-podlinnaya-istoriya

          -boevoi-udarnoi-gruppy /
      3. rjhgec55v
        rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 15: 40 New
        0
        And ours that does not participate .. that everyone forgot Chechnya .. there are 10 of these flies
        1. Witold
          Witold 26 June 2016 09: 08 New
          0
          Only 2 SC participated in the Chechen. KA-50 and KA-29
          http://www.airforce.ru/content/daidzhest-1/208-proverka-boem-podlinnaya-istoriya

          -boevoi-udarnoi-gruppy /
    4. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 18 October 2012 13: 15 New
      0
      Hi, Yes, even though in absentia they compared APACH with MI-28, which is interesting, in their class they are almost equal, but dignity is determined in battles, I don’t think that only small arms will shoot at MI-28, if it is spotted, then our MI will receive there’s always a line of 30mm guns on board that stands on the BMP, I don’t think that the probable enemy is armed only with small arms, Now the armies of the probable enemy are heavily equipped with various weapons, But I'm glad that we were able to put this machine on stream, Weapons are still weak, B probably about they will equip with a normal type of weapon and BISUO, In the future it will not hang out in sight waiting for the enemy’s defeat, The principle shot and forgot should be implemented everywhere, This is the main rule of the armies of the probable enemy, But I'm glad that the new equipment begins to go into combat units, I think with time and this helicopter will give APACH a head start. While there is nothing to see and discuss,
    5. rjhgec55v
      rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 15: 31 New
      -2
      :)))) during the amer invasion of Iraq, the American command decided to storm an Iraqi military base only with Apache helicopters, apparently they had seen enough of the film)))) and this base was guarded by one of the best units of the Iraqi army ... the attempt to frighten the Ikak people failed. .. Unfortunately, the Iraqis didn’t have MANPADS, but there were only large-caliber machine guns .. out of 30 attacking helicopters, after 10 minutes ZERO helicopters remained in the air, 27 were hit 3 left ... why am I ... again about rams ... as hid amer shot and flew away. the helicopter is better there Lea modern equipment is .. our helicopter is a direct attack aircraft ... attack with the simultaneous firing of all that is ..
      1. Professor
        Professor 29 October 2012 15: 56 New
        0
        a total of 30 attacking helicopters, after 10 minutes in the air, ZERO helicopters remained, 27 were knocked out 3 left

        but you, however, are a storyteller wink
        1. mexanik
          mexanik 21 January 2013 22: 43 New
          0
          Либо википедия врет http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D
          0%B8%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D1
          %80%D1%8C_%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D
          0%B2_%D0%98%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D
          0% B5 # 2003, or you are really a storyteller! Where are 27 crashed helicopters. Where did you get this from ?!
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 29 October 2012 16: 55 New
        0
        And detail.
  2. Strashila
    Strashila 11 October 2012 08: 24 New
    0
    Perhaps the American opponent has advantages, but they can only manifest themselves in countries such as Iraq or Afghanistan, where there are open spaces, and India is the jungle.
    1. Nubia2
      Nubia2 11 October 2012 08: 51 New
      +5
      In India there is not only the jungle.
    2. Professor
      Professor 11 October 2012 09: 26 New
      10
      I traveled around India for a couple of months and almost never met the jungle. Did you see Mowgli? wink
      1. datur
        datur 11 October 2012 21: 07 New
        +1
        Professor, really all knocked out !! ?? belay laughing
      2. Strashila
        Strashila 11 October 2012 21: 08 New
        +1
        good And who did not watch it ???? Heavy Soviet legacy.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 11 October 2012 15: 47 New
      +2
      Funny, good joke
    4. Region71
      Region71 11 October 2012 17: 14 New
      +1
      There is indeed a jungle in India. But they are not much more there in percentage terms than the taiga in Russia. In India there are several natural zones with completely different conditions.
      1. mexanik
        mexanik 21 January 2013 22: 48 New
        0
        A helicopter will not be able to fly over the trees !? Or is there some special jungle?
    5. vitya29111973
      vitya29111973 1 February 2013 11: 24 New
      0
      as much as four percent of the area, and then almost everything is in the east of the country. The whole plot of the war with Pakistan, and this is 80 percent desert and 20 percent of the mountain.
  3. leon-iv
    leon-iv 11 October 2012 09: 02 New
    +1
    While our Apache will finish the radar will be on an equal footing with its pros and cons
  4. mar.tira
    mar.tira 11 October 2012 09: 11 New
    -3
    Yes, the flag in their hands, and a pen in the w .... y!
  5. Professor
    Professor 11 October 2012 09: 29 New
    14
    Apache, Mi - it makes no difference - the Kama turntable is any better. It is a pity that her Milevskaya lobbyists were ruined.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 11 October 2012 13: 22 New
      +3
      Professor
      Ka-52 will be no less series, that's for sure especially Ka-52K
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 11 October 2012 16: 04 New
        +2
        According to preliminary estimates, the Ka-52K should be produced about 100 units. (although the figure was originally called a little over 30), not counting the possible export. The army turntables should be one and a half times more (the figure was called about 160 units). Again, not taking into account the release of "Alligators" to foreign customers ...
        What will happen next will be a little look ...
    2. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 11 October 2012 13: 23 New
      11
      I fully agree with your opinion, dear Professor.

      "Alligator" fareva !!!
    3. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 11 October 2012 17: 20 New
      +2
      Here PROFESSOR I agree with you 100%.
    4. VAF
      VAF 11 October 2012 17: 59 New
      +6
      Quote: Professor
      Kamovskaya pinwheel is better for anyone


      Pretty controversial statement. Dear Professor!
      There are so many advantages of the Mi-28th over the Ka-52th!
      well, and the rest and about .. lobby ... no doubt here! +!
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 11 October 2012 18: 40 New
        +7
        Good day to you, Sergey! drinks
        Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. It has always been and it always will be. However (and as always from the point of view of a well-read dilettante) Kamov's brainchild seems to me nevertheless more successful, and if I may say so, more perfect than the brainchild of the Milians. No offense to the latter, as well as to those who, for a number of reasons (objective and subjective), have sympathy for the "Night Hunter" (or antipathy for the "Alligator") ...
        In any case, this is normal. And in any case, both of these helicopters are ours, domestic, and so to speak native ...
        However, the Apache (we must pay tribute!) Is an excellent and very serious car. And the American flyers have a great and solid experience. Including combat. And this should not be underestimated, much less discounted ...

        However, in any case, my sympathies are with the Alligator. Do not blame me ... smile
      2. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 12 October 2012 19: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: vaf
        Pretty controversial statement. Dear Professor!

        I basically for both cars, each has its own positive aspects and its purpose. The Mi-28N did not interfere with making a normal, comfortable cockpit, if the navigator is less or less normal, then the pilot is somewhat upset.
        The photo was interesting in my opinion.
    5. Insurgent
      Insurgent 11 October 2012 21: 44 New
      -8
      Yes amers ear to the next generation of helicopters pass some have a high speed and mi28 he is already 30 years old
  6. Lakkuchu
    Lakkuchu 11 October 2012 09: 33 New
    +4
    ."When tanks or other armored vehicles of the enemy approach, the helicopters, hiding behind the folds of the terrain," jump out "to the launch point and attack with anti-tank missiles ..."
    And if these same folds of terrain do not exist, what about the plain ?!
    1. mamba
      mamba 11 October 2012 12: 24 New
      +5
      Quote: Lakkuchu
      And if these same folds of terrain do not exist, what about the plain ?!

      Then there will be a night hunt. She is especially good on a moonless night. In Iraq, this was exactly how armored vehicles were destroyed.
      1. Lakkuchu
        Lakkuchu 11 October 2012 12: 59 New
        +4
        Thanks for the answer. I still have this question, it will probably seem naive, but I'm not a military man - do I have equipment on modern helicopters that can detect, for example, a man with MANPADS that is aiming at this helicopter?
        1. viruskvartirus
          viruskvartirus 11 October 2012 16: 50 New
          0
          About the topic of protection from MANPADS is a separate, large and terribly interesting. And so on a vskidku "clearly on the question" on the helicopters are installed various detection systems.
    2. Region71
      Region71 11 October 2012 17: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: Lakkuchu
      And if these same folds of terrain do not exist, what about the plain ?!
      Shoot in a helicopter, or go on a suicide attack of tanks. As my acquaintance captain tanker said, the attack by helicopters of tanks that usually cover air defense systems is a real frenzy.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 28 New
        +4
        With the combat use of helicopters at extremely low altitudes, only air defense systems will be able to operate. Get acquainted with the zones and heights of the air defense missile defense launches.
        1. Region71
          Region71 11 October 2012 18: 23 New
          +3
          Quote: Alex 241
          With the combat use of helicopters at extremely low altitudes, only barrel systems can work

          At extremely low altitudes, on flat terrain, the MZA air defense system will smash everything that it tries to approach, the same TUNGUSKI, which are armed with tank regiments.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 11 October 2012 18: 25 New
            +1
            controversial statement, quite.
  7. King
    King 11 October 2012 09: 44 New
    0
    I wonder which helicopter is suitable for the ka-52 class.
    1. Petergut
      Petergut 11 October 2012 11: 16 New
      +1
      They are Mi28 and Apache.
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 11 October 2012 15: 59 New
        +3
        And also a whole series of helicopters belonging to the class of drums from various kinds of producing countries ...
  8. Eraser
    Eraser 11 October 2012 10: 16 New
    +9
    Good article , good , but with this "Thus, the Russian helicopter has a high specific power - about 2,4 hp per ton of normal take-off weight against 1,9 for the AH-64D." something is wrong, 4400 hp / 10.9 tons = 404 hp that ton for the Mi-28 and 4000 hp / 7.35 tons = 544 hp. per ton from AH-64D block III.
    1. Glenn witcher
      11 October 2012 12: 08 New
      +1
      OK, fixed.
  9. borisst64
    borisst64 11 October 2012 10: 20 New
    +4
    The article is very competent and detailed, but there are questions.
    Nothing is said about the noise of the engines, because Apache is known for its noiselessness in the front hemisphere, but what about the situation with Mil?
    About landing pilots from a height of 100 meters or more, I am at a loss. Even with the direct opening of the parachute at a speed of 200-300 km \ h, the minimum landing height is 150-200 m, i.e. at maximum filling of the dome. And if the helicopter crashes, yes, until the fall speed reaches the desired value, in addition, it will take time to shoot the blades, doors, inflate balloons, plus an independent exit from the cockpit. I am at a loss as to how this is achieved.
    1. golikov
      golikov 14 October 2012 13: 05 New
      +2
      Before the reform began, we had a separate aviation squadron, so one pro on a rescue parachute did full deployment from 60 m belay ! True, the rest of the flyers did everything so as not to make training jumps. wink
  10. Sirozha
    Sirozha 11 October 2012 10: 54 New
    0
    Dear tell me, what color does the numbering of helicopters have? In the photo captions, attention is drawn to this.
    1. Glenn witcher
      11 October 2012 12: 14 New
      +1
      Affiliation to the unit. For example, the 26 is one of the six aircraft that recently flew to the 546 air base.
      EMNIP, base helicopters in Budennovsk also have blue numbers. Yellow - Torzhok, Red - Korenovsk.
  11. shurup
    shurup 11 October 2012 11: 28 New
    0
    Military equipment is periodically modernized. I have a suspicion that the Boeing will cope faster than the Russian defense industry. It is possible that in India too.
  12. Max-xnumx
    Max-xnumx 11 October 2012 11: 43 New
    +2
    Thus, the Russian helicopter has a large specific power - about 2,4 hp. per tonne of normal take-off weight versus 1,9 for AH-64D

    - here the author mixed everything up
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 15: 06 New
      +1
      a lot of mistakes, the gun is not land, but the aviation 9a4071k
      1. Windbreak
        Windbreak 11 October 2012 22: 57 New
        +3
        This is your blunder. All sources indicate that the Ka-50, Ka-52, MI-28N installed 2A42. http://www.tulamash.ru/prod_2a42.htm
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 23: 03 New
          -2
          I won’t even argue. Learn the materiel. Which gun was the first: aviation GSh 1-30 (9a4071k) or land 2a42
          1. Windbreak
            Windbreak 11 October 2012 23: 25 New
            +4
            What is the difference which gun is the first? These are completely different guns for different carriers. 2A42 developer's site http://www.kbptula.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=144&Itemid=45

            9 & lang = ru and the manufacturer’s website http://www.tulamash.ru/prod_2a42.htm
            GSh-301, aka GSh 1-30 (9a4071k) http://www.kbptula.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91&Itemid=449

            & lang = ru
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 11 October 2012 23: 08 New
        0
        Quote: Alex 241
        a lot of mistakes, the gun is not land, but the aviation 9a4071k

        About the gun, everything is correctly written in the article:
        namely 2A42, the same as on the BMP-2 (with selective nutrition, etc.)
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 23: 11 New
          -2
          Tell me where did she come from on the BMP?
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 11 October 2012 23: 17 New
            +2
            Not a clue with built-in weapons :(
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 11 October 2012 23: 20 New
              0
              I think we are arguing with you about butter, in principle, the abbreviation is not fundamental. good
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 11 October 2012 23: 31 New
                +3
                Found. In the characteristics of the helicopter on the website of JSC "Rostvertol" http://www.rostvertolplc.ru/product/mi-28/version/mi-28n/#tabs-2

                The effective performance of combat missions is ensured by an armament complex consisting of:

                - stationary mobile gun installation NPPU-28 with a gun 2A42 caliber 30 mm;
                - guided missiles "Attack" (up to 16 missiles) and "Sagittarius" (up to 4 missiles);
                - 4 B8V20-A blocks (20 missiles each) for launching unguided missiles of the S-8 type of 80 mm caliber;
                - up to 4 B13L1 blocks with unguided S-13 type rockets of 122 mm caliber.
  13. Hon
    Hon 11 October 2012 11: 56 New
    0
    And why in the end put up for the contest MI28 and not Ka 52? Wanted to take advantage of the low price?
    1. Professor
      Professor 11 October 2012 12: 56 New
      +7
      Because the Milevts in the Kremlin have a hairier hand.
      1. Hon
        Hon 11 October 2012 13: 16 New
        +1
        So initially, after all, Ka was presented to the contest. And why not both by the way?
  14. Vanek
    Vanek 11 October 2012 12: 55 New
    +1
    Well, figs with them. Ours is at least prettier.
  15. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 11 October 2012 13: 16 New
    +6
    The "Apache" has one, and a very important (in my humble opinion) advantage over the brainchild of the KB. Mile (and not only his one). This is that he managed to prove himself in the war, and to show quite well ... I think that this circumstance also played into the hands of the American turntable ...

    And a completely rhetorical (and maybe not at all a question) - why Milevites (like their colleagues-competitors from the Kamov Design Bureau) did not want to test the "Night Hunter" in real combat conditions in the North Caucasus? .. Maybe then the scales of the Indian tender would have tipped in his favor ...
    1. Raiven
      Raiven 11 October 2012 13: 56 New
      +2
      participated in the conflict, do not tell. Amer bombed tanks from planes, artillery, but where is the real evidence? We all know how much they love to show off.
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 11 October 2012 15: 21 New
        +6
        You definitely need tanks as the main sign of a real war and the main indicator of the reality of its evidence, dear Raiven? .. I would like to remind you that the "Crocodile" (which is deservedly considered a fighting turntable) in Afghanistan and Chechnya also did not have heavy armored vehicles in its opponents ...
        But the Mi-28N did not even stand next to such a "no-tank gun". As they say - feel the difference. Moreover, this is present here and has a place to be ...
        So, in this and a specific case (without any offense) you laugh, dear Raiven,
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 15: 30 New
          +4
          About the high-profile victories of “Apache” something is also not particularly heard.
          1. Nubia2
            Nubia2 11 October 2012 15: 44 New
            +7
            And what kind of victory do you want?
            They began to actively participate in the first war in the bay ..
            further continued ..
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 11 October 2012 15: 49 New
              -2
              And 30 cars were damaged.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 11 October 2012 15: 54 New
                +1
                3, Sasha, 3. Not 30. From the actions of the enemy - 1. After that, the helicopters were actively modifying the results of the war.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 11 October 2012 16: 02 New
                  +1
                  I specified Zhen, 27, "COMBAT HELICOPTERS IN OPERATION IN IRAQ.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 11 October 2012 16: 37 New
                    +1
                    Helicopters in the "Desert Storm" - 23, Sash, and from the fighting - 5. Of them 3 Apaches, from the fighting - 1. Or are you talking about the Iraqi war? If about her - then you are wrong here too. In total for 2012 losses - 15 cars.
                    1. Marine One
                      Marine One 12 October 2012 15: 58 New
                      +1
                      First time used in Panama, in 1989.

                      During Desert Storm, the Apaches walked in the first wave before the air strike and punched openings in the Iraqi air defense. In the course of the Tempest ground phase, about 500 armored vehicles out of about 6000 destroyed MNF were assigned to the Apache account.

                      Israel, as far as I know, actively used Apaches to attack Hezbollah gangs and the like.
          2. Ortrega
            Ortrega 13 October 2012 21: 26 New
            0
            Quote: Alex 241
            About the high-profile victories of “Apache” something is also not particularly heard.

            But you can hear about the loud victories of the Mi-24 repeat And the Mi-28, the same thing, only much more perfect good
        2. Raiven
          Raiven 12 October 2012 15: 51 New
          -1
          I meant those cases when the Americans showed a column of destroyed tanks and said that it was their 2 Apaches that were given.
          1. Marine One
            Marine One 13 October 2012 01: 43 New
            +1
            There are some crooked recordings on YouTube mostly. Their number is also negligible as well as the records of real attacks of Russian "Crocodiles". However, if I say that I personally saw and touched armored vehicles broken up by the Apaches in 2003, will you believe me? smile
      2. Nubia2
        Nubia2 11 October 2012 15: 43 New
        +4
        Quote: Raiven
        but where is the real evidence?

        but where is the real evidence of the existence of the Americans?)))
        1. Raiven
          Raiven 12 October 2012 16: 59 New
          +1
          the consumption of a huge number of resources and in North America even shines at night
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 11 October 2012 15: 50 New
        +6
        What to do if such conflicts now. Or are you all waiting for World War III? Apache participated in two Iraqi wars, in Libya, Afghanistan, the Second Lebanon and a bunch of other operations. Extremely efficient and multi-functional helicopter.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 15: 58 New
          0
          Zhenya, do not you think that this war has already begun, and is in full swing?
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 11 October 2012 16: 39 New
            +1
            Yes FIG knows him, Sash. Going - not going. Such topics have been on a regular basis and around the world before. Now it’s easy, in connection with communications and means of communication, more and more globally.
    2. Ortrega
      Ortrega 13 October 2012 21: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: Chicot 1
      The "Apache" has one, and a very important (in my humble opinion) advantage over the brainchild of the KB. Mile (and not only his one). This is that he managed to prove himself in the war, and to show quite well ... I think that this circumstance also played into the hands of the American turntable ...

      The Mi-24 also has the same advantage, and the amers themselves are delighted with our helicopter; it, like a tractor, can stand in the hangar for a year, after which it is well lubricated and flew good
      This will not work with Amer’s cars, these are the words of an American pilot who learned to fly a captured MI-24.
      This pensioner avionics would be more serious, he would show hu hu hu repeat
      Or will someone argue that the Mi-24 combat experience is less and better than the Apache?
      This is the first helicopter to be the winner in a battle with an airplane angry
      1. igor67
        igor67 13 October 2012 22: 42 New
        +3
        Ortrega,
        A year, like a tractor, and where did you hear such nonsense? After a year, and no routine maintenance is done, this is a 100 percent wreck.
        1. Ortrega
          Ortrega 14 October 2012 20: 27 New
          -1
          Quote: igor67

          Ortrega,
          A year, like a tractor, and where did you hear such nonsense? After a year, and no routine maintenance is done, this is a 100 percent wreck.

          These are not my words, but an American pilot.
          Read here: http: //www.airforce.ru/content/daidzhest_1/126-mi-24-v-ssha/
          1. Ortrega
            Ortrega 14 October 2012 20: 57 New
            0
            Quote: Ortrega

            Quote: igor67

            Ortrega,
            A year, like a tractor, and where did you hear such nonsense? After a year, and no routine maintenance is done, this is a 100 percent wreck.
            These are not my words, but an American pilot.
            Read here: http: //www.airforce.ru/content/daidzhest_1/126-mi-24-v-ssha/

            Hind is quiet, smooth, powerful and fast. And in a conversation after the flight, Stayton and his fellow army pilot Steve Davidson made more admiring comments.
            "He is hardy like a tractor."
            "Put it in the barn for a year, then charge the batteries and you can fly right away. With our helicopters, this will not work."
            "It goes smoothly, just like 62's old Cadillac of the year."
            "Lubricate it well and you can fly it for hundreds of hours."
            Finally, Stayton said that in my opinion serves the highest honor. One day during the conversation, he leaned back and said, "You know, if I wanted to fly a helicopter just for pleasure, no doubt Hind would be at the very top of my choice."

            November 1998, XNUMX
            Share
    3. rjhgec55v
      rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 15: 55 New
      0
      1. These helicopters have long been successfully fighting in Chechnya, like the KA-50, the second regarding military reconciliation ... during the Amer invasion of Iraq, there was one show battle, the Amer. Command apparently having seen enough of the film)))) decided to carry out the attack a military base only by helicopters .. the guards of this base did not have MANPADS ... but the amers miscalculated this base was guarded by one of the best units of the Iraqi army, they didn’t drape and took up the defense, since they had DShK ... as a result, after 10 minutes in the air out of 30 helicopters was on force 3 and they made a decision yti..vse others were hit .. this is a real fight and it showed that amer.vertolety easily podbivaemy
  16. omsbon
    omsbon 11 October 2012 15: 25 New
    +2
    Our helicopters lag behind not in the performance characteristics, but in PR and advertising ! It’s very difficult to cope with amers on the trading floor.
    1. Nubia2
      Nubia2 11 October 2012 15: 48 New
      +5
      And in quantity.
  17. Nubia2
    Nubia2 11 October 2012 15: 47 New
    +4
    Besides the fact that both cars are good and close to each other, Apache has a huge advantage ..
    There are many.
    EVERY US division includes an army aviation brigade. And in the composition of each (except the 101st Airborne Forces) such a brigade of 88 Apaches (in the 101st 160 cars)
    This does not consider the marine corps and other types of US forces.
    We have so many helicopters (of any type) for the division ..
    Yes, and now there are no divisions.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 15: 56 New
      0
      We and the Americans have completely different organizational structures, so it’s incorrect to compare .........
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 11 October 2012 16: 17 New
        +9
        It’s incorrect to wear underwear over your head ... And here at least compare, at least do not compare, and the American has more attack helicopters per capita of the army population. There are simply more arithmetic ...
        And the fact that the divisions were demolished will still backfire and will respond next. There would be nothing good to adopt from behind the cordon, otherwise more and more butor like "McDonald's" and "Ivek" ...
      2. Nubia2
        Nubia2 11 October 2012 18: 46 New
        0
        everything is correct.
    2. Oleg Rosskiyy
      Oleg Rosskiyy 11 October 2012 21: 53 New
      -2
      Nubia2,
      If only there would be no interruption of fuel to them, otherwise they might not fly up in the event of a major conflict in the Middle East.
      1. Nubia2
        Nubia2 12 October 2012 09: 55 New
        0
        As with any other army with any other equipment.
        In the meantime, they fly quite well.
        More raid than ours in general and on each machine individually.
  18. AIvanA
    AIvanA 11 October 2012 16: 07 New
    -3
    Apparently, in the kickbacks, our delegation was not determined, it is a pity, of course, India is bought by a deliberately extremely expensive and not the highest quality product, well, God be their judge. Forgot Iraq and the dekhkan’s flintlock gun.
    1. igor67
      igor67 11 October 2012 16: 13 New
      +5
      AIvanA,
      Or maybe the Indians are just taught a bitter experience with Gorshkov?
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 11 October 2012 16: 16 New
        +3
        I think a politically biased decision.
        1. igor67
          igor67 11 October 2012 16: 30 New
          -1
          alex 241,
          not stupid because the Indians. At one time, they repaired the MI26 for the Indian air force and received from them both reclamation and a fine. For a trivial, simple carelessness. The machine came in for scheduled repairs, but in the acceptance certificate they indicated a crack in the chassis hub. but in English. they didn’t find a repair because the defective workers and workers didn’t know English. Why would they buy a crude car which, in the arms, was cut two times
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 11 October 2012 16: 40 New
          +1
          I think, first of all, technically. Mi-28 lost on too many technical parameters.
          1. igor67
            igor67 11 October 2012 16: 45 New
            +1
            Pimply,
            I agree, and for too long this machine went into the army, he wrote more than once here that in the late 80s mi28 stood at our airport for 25 years and how many of them riveted
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 11 October 2012 16: 50 New
              +1
              The car is just so crude. Over time, I think, it will mature, and there will be a worthy example. But for now ...
  19. Alex 241
    Alex 241 11 October 2012 16: 52 New
    +4
    This "raw" machine has been in service, albeit in small quantities since 2009. MI28 lost in 20 parameters, the main all-weather application. And no matter what they say or minus, I repeat, this is a political decision, Russia is being squeezed out of the arms market ...
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 11 October 2012 16: 57 New
      +2
      Sasha, that does not dismiss her "dampness". And she has been in service since the end of 2009. Russia is being squeezed out of the arms market because, according to a number of parameters, it lags behind.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 01 New
        +2
        Yes Zhen with the year you're right, I missed, October 2009.
  20. Alarm bell
    Alarm bell 11 October 2012 16: 53 New
    -6
    In Iraq, an old man shot down an Apache from an old Berdyanka.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 11 October 2012 16: 57 New
      0
      Yeah. Favorite bedtime story
      1. Lech e-mine
        Lech e-mine 11 October 2012 17: 02 New
        +3
        Well, let's say not from BERDANKA but Kalash and DShK.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 05 New
          +1
          In the 70s, a fact was officially recorded in Canada: a kid shot down a helicopter from a slingshot.
          1. Lech e-mine
            Lech e-mine 11 October 2012 17: 08 New
            0
            IT'S IN THE KINDERGARTEN - I trained on sparrows and accidentally hit the APACH flying past (I SAW PERSONALLY) laughing
        2. igor67
          igor67 11 October 2012 17: 11 New
          0
          Leha e-mine,
          Well, they beat 24 with dshk and in Afghanistan, it is not protected from the bottom, only the side and windshields, and about 6 of them we made a sieve
          1. igor67
            igor67 11 October 2012 17: 47 New
            -1
            Correct: they made a sieve with Kalashigor67,
          2. Insurgent
            Insurgent 11 October 2012 21: 50 New
            -1
            With the bottom mi 24 is very well protected
            1. igor67
              igor67 12 October 2012 01: 03 New
              +1
              Quote: Insurgent
              well protected

              from the bottom at 24ki from the left is the ICS and the shtv unit 20, if I am not mistaken, from the right is the cartridge box, a car with a broken bottom and control unit came to us, the pilot, we were told, died, 86 or 87
          3. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 12 October 2012 00: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: igor67
            ... and about 6 mirages the sieve was made

            For two years of Afghanistan, a cloud of hours flew over both MI-8 and MI-6. I have never heard of any sieve from Mi-6. It’s not that it was impossible to penetrate it (it’s just that easy), but simply helicopters flew (and planes too) at maximum altitude and began to decline directly in the area of ​​the airfield. It was possible to shoot at the helicopter efficiently only near the airfield, but and in response it was possible to get immediately from the warriors stationed at the airport. Mi-6s usually flew 2-3 times (never alone) and often covered themselves with a pair of Mi-24s, which, again, simply wouldn’t give a shot at a helicopter with impunity.
            By the way, until 1984, I had not heard of cases where Dushmans would fire at all on Mi-6, since he took local ones on board, if possible.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 12 October 2012 00: 04 New
              0
              Did you fly before the stingers?
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 12 October 2012 00: 25 New
                +1
                Quote: Alex 241
                Did you fly before the stingers?

                I think the main reason that they began to pay well for a downed helicopter.
            2. igor67
              igor67 12 October 2012 00: 59 New
              +3
              I don’t know, dear, Mi6 was being repaired, as well as Mi24 with our RF 21653, all cars from Afghanistan were 100% replaced with 6x bottoms. They were riveted, there was no living space. The underground was constantly grain, and Ashgabat vodkaBad_gr, I have not heard of cases where spooks would shoot at the Mi-6 and how, so on some Mi6 machines they put TV cameras: one was in the tail boom and echoing on a pole in the cargo compartment, and on one more machine they installed "ears "on the exhaust, but it's all against the stingers, can I give you another example if you want?
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 12 October 2012 01: 04 New
                +1
                After the stingers began to fly, they began to fly lower ....
              2. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 12 October 2012 22: 15 New
                +2
                And in what years did the heavily-shot Mi-6s come across?
                I think that the Mi-6 could get hit by bullets only when it was not fulfilling its tasks: after all, it was a truck (or tanker) and with me (1983-1985) it flew cleanly from the airfield to the airfield (cargo, fuel delivery).

                I came across a Mi-6 without wings (there were latches in the places where the wings were attached) - did you get such a repair?

                By the way, when I was in Puli-Khumri in 1984, an Afghan Su-7b entered an emergency landing and rammed a cargo Mi-6. The cargo burned down along with the crew (6 people), and the two Mi-6-bunkers that were supposed to fly with him - the body was undermining fragments with fragments (although not very much).
                1. igor67
                  igor67 13 October 2012 20: 48 New
                  +2
                  Bad_gr,
                  I started with 85, their repair, and tankers, inside two tanks and without planes, but why did they dismantle them? We set new ones anyway
  21. Lech e-mine
    Lech e-mine 11 October 2012 16: 55 New
    +1
    THIS MACHINE has a WEAK WEAPON GUIDING SYSTEM, HOWEVER, AN ARMOR DEFENSE IS BETTER THAN APACH.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 21 New
      +1
      Alex, what is the weakness of the system?
      1. Lech e-mine
        Lech e-mine 11 October 2012 17: 30 New
        +5
        As you know from the posted entries on the Internet on the combat use of detection and surveillance systems, the difference is very big not in our favor (poor contrast of the object, fuzzy image, it is impossible to switch from the imager mode to the body or radar at the touch of a button). This does not allow real reaction to change the combat situation.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 36 New
          0
          Alexey, thermal and radio channels, two independent systems. Thermal systems are used for a hidden approach to the target, not pretending to be radar radiation.
  22. Tektor
    Tektor 11 October 2012 17: 28 New
    +2
    Our 28 simply asks for UAV companions of radar target designation: then the pilots will be able to hang over the terrain and shoot a rocket directly from behind the shelter, receiving information about the situation from the drone. After analyzing this information and launching the Attack on top of hills, trees, etc., it passes the drone a target for pointing missiles at it, perhaps participating in television guidance, if necessary. Complete safety.
    1. Joker
      Joker 11 October 2012 17: 31 New
      +3
      It is already implemented in Apache yes
    2. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 42 New
      -2
      Difficult and inefficient.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 11 October 2012 18: 15 New
        +2
        But this is your statement, Sasha, debatable.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 18: 16 New
          0
          Arguing !!!!!!!!!!!!
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 11 October 2012 18: 24 New
            +6
            Well, at least in that it dramatically expands the capabilities of the helicopter and has already been implemented in the third Apache. The helicopter gets a completely different picture of the battle. In fact, the helicopter receives additional tentacles with which it can reach one or another point without putting itself at risk.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 11 October 2012 18: 29 New
              -1
              Any chain is not stronger than its weakest link. The weakest link of the UAV. What type of UAV will be used? The combat radius of its action? The time of barrage over the target?
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 11 October 2012 18: 34 New
                +4
                Sasha. This is not so important. Of the open information there, UAVs are not one type. The main thing is that all information is displayed directly.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 11 October 2012 18: 38 New
                  0
                  Eugene, just a respected TECTOR wrote about the interception of the target illumination signal, etc. I am categorically against. UAVs are used as a scout for collecting and processing information, then the turntables work in the on-board search mode.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 11 October 2012 19: 05 New
                    +4
                    No, I in this case spoke about the very development of the idea of ​​a UAV-helicopter bunch, for this, IMHO, the future. Like a bunch of UAV-plane
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 11 October 2012 19: 08 New
                      +2
                      Eugene agrees, there should be a single integrated battlefield management system, but I think it's silly to delegate the execution of functions to any component. Everyone is doing his own thing.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 11 October 2012 19: 31 New
                        +5
                        Sash, this is just expanding the possibilities. For example, to simultaneously hit from different points
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 11 October 2012 19: 34 New
                        0
                        Zhen, I meant that you should not delegate unusual functions, the helicopter will not be engaged in intercepting air targets.
                      3. Pimply
                        Pimply 11 October 2012 19: 38 New
                        +1
                        Air targets are different, agree wink

                        Now, in general, there is a reassessment of the capabilities and principles of using this or that weapon. For example, a tank. With helicopters - the same tramp.
                      4. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 11 October 2012 19: 41 New
                        +1
                        Zhenya, I wrote an interception drinks and the principle, in my opinion, has been unchanged since the time a person picked up a club: to destroy the enemy.
  • patsantre
    patsantre 11 October 2012 18: 44 New
    0
    For this, new missiles are needed, and not what is now being hung on it.
  • denkastro
    denkastro 11 October 2012 17: 40 New
    +2
    Actually, it was clear that India would not buy our helicopters, but would buy Apaches at the beginning of the year. And everything has been discussed for a long time, conclusions have been made and are being corrected. But bad luck, one of the magazine cameras is again presenting yesterday's news instead of hot pies. Apparently someone needs it.
  • BruderV
    BruderV 11 October 2012 17: 44 New
    +5
    There is not a word in the article about the fact that Mishka lost due to less accurate shooting with the entire range of weapons and unsatisfactory applicability at night and in bad weather compared to the Amer. Well at least they pointed out the main thing - the impossibility of firing guided missiles on the "fire and forget" principle without constant target illumination. In the meantime, Mishka will illuminate it with any cannon ZSU such as the German Cheetah or our Carapace or even Shilka will usher in the threshing floor and powerful armor will not help, and the Apache, hiding in the folds of the terrain, will remain invulnerable. So in the fight against mechanized columns, Mi Apache is not a competitor, that's all.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 51 New
      0
      The shooting results are assumed to be identical for both helicopters. Read the characteristics, MI can maneuver, and not hang motionless target, when illuminating the target.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 11 October 2012 18: 15 New
        +4
        However, he must highlight it.
  • sergant89
    sergant89 11 October 2012 17: 47 New
    16
    Well, how many topics "with a beard" can be raised, this is not news for a long time, but most of the patriots on this site and everyone believes in our technology, well, we cannot have all the best, especially after so many years of the collapse of the military-industrial complex, and which of them is cooler time will tell, of course I'm for a night hunter.
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 11 October 2012 21: 17 New
      +1
      When our manufacturers exhibited MI, they finally read the terms of the tender. The very fact that the car reached the final speaks of compliance with the stated requirements. But this machine has an indisputable advantage, the machines of this manufacturer have long been operated in India and when the MI-28N was submitted, the entire experience of previous cooperation. "gregor6549" correctly noted "Apache today has a huge advantage in the fact that he is an integral element of a unified information system of the battlefield or simpler ACCS. That is, he can rely not only on information provided by his own sensors but can receive information from external systems in real time (ie target designation, warning of threats, etc.) "... just for this to manifest itself, India needs to purchase another 2-3 billion equipment. from Apache, given the long cooperation for MI full implementation, everything is already there in India.
      1. yanus
        yanus 12 October 2012 12: 59 New
        -1
        Quote: Strashila
        just so that this manifests itself to India by another 2-3 billion.

        And many countries are ready to sell modern ASUV? )))
    2. Ortrega
      Ortrega 14 October 2012 22: 00 New
      -1
      Quote: sergant89
      Well, how many topics "with a beard" can be raised, this is not news for a long time, but most of the patriots on this site and everyone believes in our technology, well, we cannot have all the best, especially after so many years of the collapse of the military-industrial complex, and which of them is cooler time will tell, of course I'm for a night hunter.

      KOSOVA WAR 1999.
      At least five American turntables were shot down, carrying about a hundred special forces on board. A few more Apache helicopters were destroyed by fire from the ground. One AN-64D found its death in a battle from Mi-24V angry .
      And this is an older brother bully Mi-28go.
      Would give the night hunter to show himself, would fly on a business trip to Syria fellow , everything would fall into place.
      And so what's the point of shaking the air in vain repeat .
      Clitorsha howled belay when she suspected that they want to send our Mi-35s to Syria, however they are afraid or fear lol
  • Delta
    Delta 11 October 2012 17: 48 New
    +4
    Thus, Chain Gan requires an external power supply to operate the automation. As practice shows, such a system is viable and effective, however, in some countries it is believed that the aircraft gun should be "self-sufficient" and not require any external energy sources. The barrel armament of the Mi-28N helicopter is the product of this very concept.

    And the electric start, excuse me, what does it work from?
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 17: 56 New
      +3
      From the botnet, 27 volts through the contactor.
      1. Delta
        Delta 11 October 2012 18: 06 New
        +1
        Well. This is me to the fact that the self-sufficiency of any air gun can not speak
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 18: 08 New
          -1
          This is more of a utopia, even if pyrorecharge is used, you still need external power from the flight network, and even more so to change the rate of fire.
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 11 October 2012 18: 10 New
    +8
    With, in principle, equal combat capabilities of the considered helicopters, Apache today has a huge advantage in the fact that it is an integral element of a unified information system of the battlefield or, more simply, ACCU. Those. he can rely not only on the information that his own sensors provide, but can receive information from external systems in real time (i.e. target designation, warning of threats, etc.) At one time, such an exchange of information with attack aircraft (helicopters , attack aircraft, UAVs, etc.) was implemented in the automated control system by the Udar strike aviation units and then in the Etalon automated control system. Whether such functions are provided for in modern Russian ACCS and when they will be implemented is difficult to say. If we talk about which helicopter is better, then I am in favor of the two-seater "Black Shark", which at one time was diligently spread by both the Milians and their foreign competitors, tk. the coaxial scheme of the Shark could put an end to the longitudinal scheme of combat helicopters. And yet, the layout of the Shark quite allows her to put a radar with a phased antenna array in her nose cone, after which both MI28 and Apache can be excluded from the lists of competitors of this "fish" altogether. Of course the review will be sectorial and not circular, but why would a helicopter have a circular view. He would have to deal with the targets in the firing sector, and a radar with a phased array or AFAR does it best. Yes, and it guides missiles at a target through several channels simultaneously. And with rounding the terrain, the problem is simplified. But I was dreaming a bit, although dreaming, they say, is not harmful
  • BruderV
    BruderV 11 October 2012 18: 20 New
    +2
    After the story of Vikramaditya boilers, I will be generally surprised if the Indians ever order anything from us.
  • Zlu
    Zlu 11 October 2012 18: 23 New
    0
    striking outward similarities !!!
    1. BruderV
      BruderV 11 October 2012 18: 29 New
      0
      Just the problems of the defense industry system, for the first time chtoli? Either we will send used planes to Algeria, then we can use shoals with maintenance of equipment. Here is the customer who thinks who better to pay.
  • Fox
    Fox 11 October 2012 18: 30 New
    +1
    and if you do not sell to the Indians mi 28n ...? let them go crazy ... let them eat Amerovskoye-Pakistan should be armed, and then compare helicopters, tanks ...
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 11 October 2012 18: 36 New
    +3
    Hindus are practical people and prefer to have a spent tit in their hands now than an unworked crane tomorrow. The Apache has been under construction for a long time and has undergone combat testing in many hot spots where completely modern air defense systems and no less modern ground targets were used. Further, Apaches, like all other US military equipment, are usually exported as a complete set, i.e. with all the "bells and whistles" necessary for maintenance and repairs, as well as with a solid warranty and post-warranty service. An important role is played by Vespma, the effective armament of the Apache, which was also tested in a real combat situation. And finally, the technologies and culture of assembling the helicopter and its components. Recently on TV they showed the process of assembling the Apache at a serial plant. The comparison is clearly not in favor of the serial plants of the Russian aviation industry.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 18: 42 New
      +5
      Gregory is getting easier. India enters into a coalition with Afghanistan against Pakistan. And what, before purchasing MI8,24,26, did our technical culture suit them?
    2. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 13 October 2012 00: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: gregor6549
      Recently on TV they showed the Apache assembly process in a serial plant. The comparison so far is clearly not in favor of the serial plants of the Russian aviation industry.

      Yes, I would not say so clearly
  • Trevis
    Trevis 11 October 2012 18: 36 New
    +6
    This sample is out of competition!
    1. Ortrega
      Ortrega 14 October 2012 22: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Trevis
      This sample is out of competition!

      Krasava, I didn’t really want to be in his sight good
      Here he looks more like a shark than a crocodile.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 15 October 2012 23: 20 New
      +2
      Cabin Ka-52
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 11 October 2012 18: 37 New
    0
    Hindus are practical people and prefer to have a spent tit in their hands now than an unworked crane tomorrow. The Apache has been under construction for a long time and has undergone combat testing in many hot spots where completely modern air defense systems and no less modern ground targets were used. Further, Apaches, like all other US military equipment, are usually exported as a complete set, i.e. with all the "bells and whistles" necessary for maintenance and repairs, as well as with a solid warranty and post-warranty service. An important role is played by Vespma, the effective armament of the Apache, which was also tested in a real combat situation. And finally, the technologies and culture of assembling the helicopter and its components. Recently on TV they showed the process of assembling the Apache at a serial plant. The comparison is clearly not in favor of the serial plants of the Russian aviation industry.
  • lesnik.
    lesnik. 11 October 2012 19: 05 New
    +6
    The theme of KA-50 was in vain covered. If in the West they believe that a crew of two pilots is better than one, this is their business, but not an axiom.
    1. Diesel
      Diesel 12 October 2012 20: 33 New
      +1
      I agree! It’s just more logical to contrast Apache and ka50
  • schapchits
    schapchits 11 October 2012 19: 32 New
    +3
    Quote: lesnik.
    The theme of KA-50 was in vain covered. If in the West they believe that a crew of two pilots is better than one, this is their business, but not an axiom.

    It's not about the west. It’s just that the training of pilots is not the same as in the Soviet years, one already can’t cope
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 19: 38 New
      +5
      You are wrong. The technical saturation of a helicopter is different, therefore a pilot operator is needed.
    2. Diesel
      Diesel 12 October 2012 20: 32 New
      +1
      In Chechnya, everyone did an excellent job ..
  • lesnik.
    lesnik. 11 October 2012 20: 15 New
    +3
    It is interesting who knows how justified the use of NPPU on the Mi-28 is, in the sense of firing accuracy off course angles, with the rather large / 40-50 kN / magnitude of the recoil force of the gun 2A42.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 20: 26 New
      +3
      At a distance of 1000m, falling into a square of 1.5x1.5 meters.
      1. BruderV
        BruderV 11 October 2012 20: 36 New
        +2
        With a single fire or burst? If it falls into such a square from 1000m, then what square should it fall at the declared maximum effective range of 4000m? There will be clearly even larger sizes of the tank, not to mention the infantryman. That is, this range is paper?
      2. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 11 October 2012 21: 19 New
        +3
        But with all this (according to open sources), the accuracy of the Mi-28N is 3 times lower than that of the Apache, and 50 times lower than that of the Ka-52/4 ...
        This is a kag-be to the fact that a fixed artillery system on a helicopter is supposedly a minus, and a rotary type is agrofegenny plus ...

        For those who still walk in the supporters of rotary artillery systems certainly located in the bow of the helicopter, I advise you to look at how the high-rate fire from the GS-2-30 mounted on the Mi-24P is fired ... And then mentally shift the recoil force when firing into different positions in azimuth and pointing angle and figure out how this will affect the stability and controllability of the machine ... But 2A42 is also a solid aggregate. And the return from him is probably comparable with GS-2-30 ...
        So, we can conclude that the overwhelming majority of cases, the Mi-28N will fire from the artillery system at its initial position, aiming by fuselage maneuver ...
        So, the conclusion begs - and why the hell did you have to fool all this NPPU together with its drives, sleeves, pipelines, complicate the aiming system? .. Is it really just to effectively rotate the barrel 30 mm in front of the cameras of journalists? .. It turns out, so ...
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 11 October 2012 23: 06 New
          +1
          The return of GSh-1-30 is 9 tons, of course, the disturbances are not weak from the two barrels. But I think the gun should be on a turntable of such a class.
  • tupolev-95
    tupolev-95 11 October 2012 21: 17 New
    +4
    the mi-28 has no experience in combat use, and the reviews from the parts are negative, I have not heard about the ka-52, praise the new modifications of the mi-8
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 11 October 2012 23: 07 New
      +3
      About MI-8amtsh very well respond.
    2. rjhgec55v
      rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 16: 02 New
      +1
      Chechnya, they’ve been flying for 5 years .. only excellent reviews
  • exe-hacker
    exe-hacker 11 October 2012 22: 03 New
    +2
    mi 28 n weapons of global war, where you need cheap workers, bastard T-34, the car is perfectly armored, all systems are duplicated, i.e. the survival rate is high, and the opportunities are high !!!!
    Plus, the non-joint scheme is easier to control, good continuity from the MI 24, pilots do not need to retrain for a more complex joint scheme of the "commanding" to 52. There are a lot of chances to survive in this helicopter, but the fact that it is not as streamlined as to 52, so this has its own charm, brutality, so to speak, a range rover, among helicopters !!!!!! another workhorse of mi 35, new engines and avionics have done their job !!!!! we need such machines, you can buy a lot of them in comparison from to 52!
    I live in Rostov-on-Don, every day I see these cars run-in, I am glad they are amazing, and not too noisy!
    Rosvertol itself is a very modern enterprise, and if not the governor of the region and the director of the plant at one time, the machine would not have seen the light at all in iron !!
    By the way, as a long time ago, there was an article on military excursion about a tour of the factory, workshops where it is cleaner than in the hospital, can not be compared with Kamovsky, with all due respect to 52
    1. legleleg
      legleleg 12 October 2012 14: 55 New
      -1
      I didn’t understand why you were minus
  • lesnik.
    lesnik. 11 October 2012 22: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: exe-hacker
    Plus a non-co-op scheme is easier to manage

    Amazing And I thought that for a turn.
    1. exe-hacker
      exe-hacker 11 October 2012 22: 20 New
      -4
      the biggest minus of the coostal system is the ability to lob the blades under certain conditions .., mi 28 is the only combat helicopter in the world making a dead loop
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 11 October 2012 22: 30 New
        +4
        I guess I will disappoint you - but this is not so. Many helicopters are also capable of this.

        1. Nubia2
          Nubia2 12 October 2012 10: 13 New
          -1
          For
          exe-hacker this video is hardly an argument))))
          It is said that the 28th is the only one and that's it !!)))
        2. wolverine7778
          wolverine7778 14 October 2012 12: 28 New
          +1
          Oh, how Apache rumbles like a kitten on his knees good
      2. lesnik.
        lesnik. 12 October 2012 07: 00 New
        0
        Ka-50
        [media = http: //img.mail.ru/r/video2/player_v2.swf? orig = 2 & movieSrc = mail / ac10 / _myvi
        deo / 1 & host = video.mail.ru & contentHost = content.video.mail.ru]
      3. lesnik.
        lesnik. 12 October 2012 07: 02 New
        0
        Dead loop on KA-50
      4. lesnik.
        lesnik. 12 October 2012 08: 48 New
        +4
        Dead loop KA 50
  • BruderV
    BruderV 11 October 2012 22: 31 New
    -1
    Quote: exe-hacker
    mi 28 n weapons of global war, where workers need inexpensive horses, bastard T-34,


    As always in history, people prepare for past wars. Also, France in World War II was perfectly prepared for the Perova World meat grinder, and then tanks appeared. What exactly should the global war begin? Mi-28 is an inexpensive horse? Well yes. Do not share the numbers? Or maybe more complex treatises on the labor and knowledge-intensive production, especially in comparison with Apache? And then after all, with a finger in the sky, and I can.
  • exe-hacker
    exe-hacker 12 October 2012 00: 14 New
    +1
    BruderV,
    Quote: BruderV
    Mi-28 is an inexpensive horse? Well yes. Do not share the numbers?

    about 250 million rubles (not the latest data yet)

    the cost of one ka 52 ~ 1055 million rubles

    Global I mean World War, in such conditions high-tech weapons may be useless or out of order, "shovels" will go into battle
    1. BruderV
      BruderV 12 October 2012 10: 58 New
      +2
      Did you get the prices from Wikiperdia? And the fact that the older Mi-35 has a price of $ 12,5 million does not bother? Well, judging by your logic, the Mi-28 is not more complicated than a shovel? You carry the cliché about the T-34, which the whole country, including schoolchildren, collected at primitive machines, simplifying everything as much as possible, removing even the "extra headlight" on the most complex aviation equipment. And in aviation, as they say, there are no trifles. Superfluous devices cannot be removed; tolerances in hundredths of a millimeter cannot be violated. What kind of schoolchildren are there at the machines? In aviation, the high cost and laboriousness of the slikh is paid off by the resulting combat effectiveness.
  • tambu
    tambu 12 October 2012 01: 49 New
    -5
    shit (sorry burst out) compared shit with cabbage .... and shit is clearly not domestic ....
  • karmin
    karmin 12 October 2012 04: 15 New
    -1
    The Mi-28N is an excellent helicopter for fighting insurgents of various stripes (for warriors in Afghanistan, for example, where, bells and whistles, Apache, are redundant), unfortunately, it is not suitable for a war with a well-armed enemy.
    And the Ka-52 only slightly (the presence of a radar) surpasses the Mi-28N, and even then until the Mi-28N receives a radar in the following modification - Mi-28NM
  • Alexxeg73
    Alexxeg73 12 October 2012 08: 59 New
    +1
    Or maybe this is the case:

    "... It is possible that the fatal for the Mi-28N was the participation in the strategic command and staff exercises at the Gorokhovets training ground near Nizhny Novgorod, when the helicopter crashed during the practical firing. As the investigation found out, the reason for this was the ingress of powder gases from the launching unguided rockets into engine air intake. Because of what it "choked" and stalled. And only thanks to the design of the machine: shock-absorbing chassis and an armored capsule in which the pilots are able to withstand an overload of 15g, the pilots remained alive after the fall and got out of the wrecked car even without bruises However, for the Indians it was most likely not so important in comparison with the fact that the helicopter fell, performing the main maneuver for itself .... "
  • Nubia2
    Nubia2 12 October 2012 10: 19 New
    -1
    Both cars are pretty close and good.
    Indeed, both can be called the best of their kind.
    but, if their combat capabilities differ slightly, then in one Apache wins unconditionally.
    They are made incommensurably more than 28x.
    And besides - it has been actively used for many years.
    And this allows you to identify shortcomings, modify if necessary.
  • exe-hacker
    exe-hacker 12 October 2012 11: 43 New
    +3
    And yet, the car is at least relatively safe, in three incidents with the Mi28n only one pilot died, and only because of his courage and love for the car, trying to save her falling from a height of 400 meters!
    By the way, more than one accident was not the fault of the machine itself, and as we have already said about the exercises of the Gorokhovets training center, I will quote the so unloved BruderV wikipedia, "During the demonstration exercises, the Mi-28N helicopter fired a NAR in hovering mode, which triggered the surge of the engines. The helicopter made an emergency landing, hitting one landing gear in a trench, which led to overturning of the vehicle and was accompanied by the destruction of the main rotor and tail boom. Subsequently, the helicopter was delivered on a Mi-26 suspension to the Rosvertol plant and restored. Shown to journalists in April 2011. The helicopter was restored under a separate contract. "
    Shooting NAR in hover mode is prohibited by the regulations that were violated!
  • BruderV
    BruderV 12 October 2012 12: 03 New
    -3
    Yes, they are never close. The Mi-28 has incorporated all the perversity of the views of the Soviet-Russian Ministry of Defense on the general cost reduction and utilization, and is essentially a further inert and illogical development of the Mi-24. Of course, engines, reservations and crew rescue systems have improved. As for weapons, consider everything remains in place. Need a more powerful gun? Get off the BMP and put it on a rotating turret, cheap and cheerful, why develop a special one? Worse accuracy of shooting and ridiculous ammunition, for which you must constantly fly to the base, which does not allow you to work effectively both in infantry and armored vehicles? Well, these are trifles. Hellfire-type missiles fired and forgotten? But you see how much they are purchased from the amers in the army. Well, the fact that if you need constant illumination of the target with a laser is a great risk of losing the car itself, having entered into fire contact with the enemy, you can somehow forget, given that the car is cheaper than Apache. Right? On Apaches put full-fledged Sidewinder aviation missiles as on fighters with appropriate noise immunity and the probability of hitting a target? It’s not expensive, you have to borrow the Igloo from the infantry and put it on a helicopter. And the fact that it is rejected even by primitive thermal traps is not so important. So, in the end, we have that Apache is an ideal fighter for armored vehicles, a good anti-aircraft defense, capable of shooting down even low-flying fighters, and an excellent means of supporting infantry especially at night, given the low noise level, the presence of high-quality advanced thermal imagers, night vision devices, the possibility of control from an UAV, etc. And for what tasks the Mi-28 was created is not very clear. Its capabilities against armored vehicles are no higher than those of the latest versions of the Mi-24, you won’t be able to work the guns with infantry with a small ammunition load, and there are no more air defense capabilities than the soldiers with the Igla. So is the low cost of the resulting combat effectiveness worth it? I'm a patriot, but all of the above makes me think
    1. Belo_biletnik
      Belo_biletnik 12 October 2012 16: 58 New
      +1
      In addition to guns, the use of NURSs is implied. They are better for infantry than a cannon.
      Interestingly, do you realize the whole difficulty of designing a turret for a helicopter or was it just written like that?
    2. Ratibor12
      Ratibor12 13 October 2012 15: 59 New
      -1
      Quote: BruderV
      incorporated all the depravity of the views of the Soviet-Russian Ministry of Defense on the general cost reduction and utilization, and in fact is a further inert and illogical development of the Mi-24.


      The perversity of such an opinion on the cheapening of the view on the utilization of essence is an inert logic ...

      As the practice of fighting in the Middle East has shown, the Mi-24 is an excellent helicopter. During the Iran-Iraq war "... over eight years of armed conflict in 56 air battles between helicopters, including ten between Mi-24 and Sea Cobras, ten Sea Cobras and six Mi-24s were shot down. .. "
      In the battles between the heirs of the Mi-24 and the Cobra, the Mi-28 and the Apache, the alignment will be the same.
      1. BruderV
        BruderV 13 October 2012 20: 32 New
        0
        Yes, of course the same. I’m probably not even going to ask about the characteristics of the Igla missile from the infantry MANPADS in comparison with the Sidewinder missile on Apache. Mi-24 was created in the USSR when there was a full-fledged defense industry, in which most of the country's money was invested. So that now on the ruins of the Soviet military-industrial complex they have gathered something comparable to modern American technology, you can convince me ad infinitum. I recently worked at a factory manufacturing aircraft instruments, and I no longer believe in bedtime stories. In terms of guided weapons and electric weapons, the Mi-28 is at best comparable to the base version of Apache's 80s.
    3. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 14 October 2012 22: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: BruderV
      The Mi-28 has incorporated all the depravity of the views of the Soviet-Russian Ministry of Defense on the general cheapening and utilitarianization and, in fact, is a further inert and illogical development of the Mi-24.

      Well yes, of course, the floor of the world is exploited by the Mi-24,

      his combat experience was taken into account in the creation of the Mi-28, and this combat experience of his, the experience of the most belligerent helicopter in the world, is called "perverse views."

      Did you understand what you said?
      1. BruderV
        BruderV 14 October 2012 23: 12 New
        -1
        Well, what does the Mi-24 have to do with it? Like, now I have to look at this card and hide in horror at the baseboard, realizing my errors)? Especially any Angolans and Mozambique were lucky. They sold equipment to them on credit (read for nothing), which they still do not pay))) If you do not know how to read, study, but do not understand what is written, so there is no need to show it. Especially for you on fingers I will explain my position. If the Mi-24 were supplied with modern electronic equipment and weapons comparable to Apache, then this would be much more effective than fencing a garden with a bmp gun, armored capsule and crew rescue systems. And since we don’t have modern electronics and apparently never will, because until we reach their current level they will have cyborgs, you have to collective farm all sorts of other options with increased armor, inevitable increase in engine power in this regard, the installation of a more powerful gun with dubious ultimate efficiency and so on.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 15 October 2012 00: 12 New
          0
          Quote: BruderV
          .... If modern electronic equipment and weapons comparable to Apache were delivered to the Mi-24, this would be much more effective than fencing a garden with a bmp gun, armored capsule and crew rescue systems .....

          And if normal armor was put on Apache, then he could not hide in the ditches in the distance, but accompany the columns, covering people and equipment from ambushes, work directly on the battlefield, visually determining where his own, and where strangers, and if necessary evacuate people under enemy fire.
          On electronics.
          Cabin Mi-35. Not super-duper, but modern electronics have enough
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 15 October 2012 00: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: BruderV
          .... If modern electronic equipment and weapons comparable to Apache were delivered to the Mi-24, this would be much more effective than fencing a garden with a bmp gun, armored capsule and crew rescue systems .....

          And if normal armor was put on Apache, then he could not hide in the ditches in the distance, but accompany the columns, covering people and equipment from ambushes (which from afar you might not notice), work directly on the battlefield, visually determining where your where are the strangers, and if necessary evacuate people under enemy fire.
          1. BruderV
            BruderV 15 October 2012 00: 30 New
            +1
            As for from afar, not to notice the posts below, read about 127-fold optics on Apaches and thermal imagers, which even allow you to see traces from several kilometers. It’s as if you’re trying to understand that hiding along the ditches is part of a contactless war, when you have the opportunity to destroy the intruder when he doesn’t see you and doesn’t even know about your existence and is simply physically unable to answer. And count this zero loss. And yes, Apache accompanies the columns, provides support to ground units and even flies ahead of the advancing mechanized columns, without hiding in the ditches, and much more. Well, evacuating people is already the extra mass dimensions needed. Why when there are special transporters, the same Black Hawk.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 15 October 2012 19: 22 New
              +1
              Quote: BruderV
              ... You’re kind of trying to understand that hiding along the ditches is a part of a contactless war, when you have the opportunity to destroy the intruder when he doesn’t see you and doesn’t even know about your existence and is simply physically unable to answer. And consider this zero loss .....

              And who argues that shooting from afar at the enemy when he does not see you is bad? Another question is that a single shooting at a target that was spotted in good optics is not at all the same thing as shooting directly above the battlefield, when they indicate themselves as colored smoke, and where the enemy is located they indicate from the rocket launcher.
              By the way, they put good optics on our modern turntables and, accordingly, add the ability to work from far away, but in fact our options remain to work under enemy fire.
              Mi-35
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 15 October 2012 20: 08 New
                +1
                Quote: Bad_gr
                and they put good optics on our modern turntables

    4. rjhgec55v
      rjhgec55v 29 October 2012 16: 08 New
      +1
      the number of rounds does not particularly affect the battlefield, given that they will still shoot at 5 pieces, a larger number in the queue and a gun to the dump ... this is shot in a movie for 10 minutes ...
      Why put 1000 rounds when you can put the extra 2 missiles ..
      Example A-18 Amer attack aircraft ... almost never use a gun since it is inefficient .. yes the show when it shoots and in reality the dispersion is catastrophic ... it also doesn’t pull against tanks
  • Kir
    Kir 12 October 2012 15: 18 New
    -2
    By the way, about the cannon-2A42 it has a selective power supply, I have not heard of the Apache cannon. now, according to other sources, helpers, including "Hellfire-II" (as of 1997), have a launch range of 6! against the same Vortex with a range of 8 km. (for Ka50-52), now the Ka-50 climb rate is 10m / s at an altitude of 2500m (for Ka-52 8/2500), for Apache 64A12.7 / 0m-64D 15.7 / 0 static ceilings Ka-50/52 (with TVZ-117VMA engines) 4000/33600, AH-64A 3060 / AH-64D 3075 (T700-GE-701 / T700 - GE-701C), dynamic 50/52 5500 against 64A 6400 | 64D 41175
    1. Kir
      Kir 12 October 2012 16: 00 New
      -1
      I apologize should be read instead of 4000 / 33600-4000 / 3600
  • Manager
    Manager 12 October 2012 17: 05 New
    -1
    The main difference is that.
    Apache Units produced> 1800 (June 2012)
    MI-28 Units produced 64 (June 2012)

    Maybe we will continue to praise ???? stop
  • Blat
    Blat 12 October 2012 18: 05 New
    0
    TTX family AH-64
    AH-64A[19] AH-64D[1] AH-64D Longbow[1]
    TECH SPECS
    Crew 2
    Length with rotary screws, m 17,76
    The diameter of the rotor, m 14,63
    Tail rotor diameter, m 2,79
    Высота, м 3,84[1. 1] 4,66[1. 2] 4,95[1. 3]
    Area swept by the main rotor, m² 168,11
    Base chassis, m 10,59
    Track chassis, m 2,03
    Empty weight, kg 4 660 5 165 5 352
    Normal take-off weight, kg [1. 4] 6 650 6 552 7 530
    Maximum take-off weight, kg 8 000 9 525 10 432 [1. 5]
    Mass of fuel, kg 1 108 + 2 712 in PTB
    Fuel volume, l 1 421 + 4 × 871 in PTB
    Engine 2 × TVD General Electric
    T700-GE-701 T700-GE-701C
    Horsepower (kW) 2 × 1 (695) 1 × 270 (2)
    Flight characteristics
    Maximum permissible speed, km / h 365
    Maximum speed, km / h 300 293 265
    Practical range, km 690 [1. 6] 482 407
    Ferry range, km 2 020 1 899
    The flight duration is 3,57 hours [1. 7] 2 h 44 m / 8 h [1. 8]
    Practical ceiling, m 6 100 6 400 5 915
    Static ceiling, m [1. 9] 4 085/3 100 4 570/3 505 4 170/2 890
    Maximum rate of climb, m / s 12,27
    Vertical rate of climb, m / s 12,7 7,5
    Disk load, kg / m² 48,6 62,1
    Maximum operational overload + 3,5 / -1,0 g + 3,5 / -0,5 g
    and this is mi-28
    TECH SPECS
    Crew: 2 person
    Passengers: 3 people [32]
    Fuselage length: 17,05 m
    Height: 3,82
    Width with wing consoles 5,88 m
    Main rotor diameter: 17,2 m
    The diameter of the tail rotor: 3,85 m
    Weight:
    empty: 8095 kg [35]
    normal take-off weight: 10900 kg [22]
    maximum take-off weight: 12100 kg [22]
    Mass of payload: 2300 kg
    Weight Fuel: 1500 kg
    Power point:
    Engine type: turboshaft
    Model: Motor Sich VK-2500-02 [22]
    Power: [36]
    in emergency mode: 2700 liters. with.
    on take-off mode: 2200 l. p. [22]
    on cruise mode: 1500 l. with.
    [edit]
    Flight characteristics
    Maximum speed:
    horizontal flight: 300 km / h [22]
    cruising: 270 km / h
    Range of flight:
    maximum 450 km [22] [37]
    with PTB: 1087 km [22]
    Static ceiling: 3600 m [37]
    Dynamic ceiling: 5000 m [22]
    Rate of climb: m / s 13,6
    smiled text)))))))))) where the author so skillfully compared the power, weight and mass of the payload))))))))))))))))
    that's where 3 passengers appeared in the table and did not understand)))))))))))))))))))))))))