Military Review

Fernando de Toledo Alba. Autumn of the life of the "Iron Duke"

168

Today we will continue and finish the story of the "Iron Duke" Alba (first и second articles in this series). Let's talk about the alcabal, the bloody war in the Netherlands, the disgrace and the last triumph in Portugal.


Alcabala: the fateful decision of the Duke of Alba


The maintenance of the army was very expensive, and therefore the Duke of Alba decided to impose new taxes on the population of the Netherlands. He took the alkabala as a model - a tax once levied by the Arabs in the Korodovsky caliphate and then also applied by the Spanish kings. It consisted of three parts, called "tenth pfennig", "twentieth pfennig" and "hundredth pfennig". "The tenth pfennig" (that is, 10%) was levied on every sale and purchase transaction. "Twentieth" (5%) - from transactions for the sale of real estate. "Hundredth" is the recovery of 1% of the value of any property. However, Alba did not take into account local specifics. It was the "tenth pfennig" that turned out to be especially terrible for the inhabitants of the Netherlands. The fact is that mediation was widespread in this province, and on the way from the producer to the consumer, goods sometimes passed through seven hands. Thus, in fact, this tax was not 10, but up to 70% of the cost of each product.

Bloody war in the Netherlands


It was the introduction of the alcabala that became the fatal mistake of the Duke of Alba, which alienated even loyal residents of the Netherlands from him. Some cities, including Utrecht, openly refused to pay "tithe". An uprising began, which quickly spread throughout the province. The rebels were assisted by the English Queen Elizabeth, who opened her ports for the ships of the "sea geezes", the French Huguenots and the Protestants of the German principalities.

In June 1568, the Provincial States of Holland proclaimed William of Orange stadtholder of Holland, Zeeland, West Frisia and Utrecht and provided him with 100 guilders to form an army. The Duke of Alba moved his troops north.

I must say that the discipline in the army of Alba was "iron", any "amateur" was severely suppressed, and there were no unauthorized robberies of the civilian population or captured cities. But there were repressions sanctioned by him, because of which Alba received the nickname "executioner of the Netherlands." The duke immediately warned that the inhabitants of the cities to which his army approached could count on mercy only on the condition of immediate surrender. Otherwise, the cities were given to the soldiers for plunder.

Fernando de Toledo Alba. Autumn of the life of the "Iron Duke"
"Bloody Duke" Alba in an illustration for Charles de Coster's novel "The Legend of Ulenspiegel"

It should be noted that the Dutch in a number of cases were not opposed to “playing” according to such rules. The cities loyal to Philip II were ruined and plundered, and if the Spaniards simply executed the recalcitrant, then their opponents liked to torture the prisoners first or give them to be torn to pieces by a drunken crowd. With particular pleasure, "virtuous Protestants" mocked Catholic priests and monks. Once the Spaniards threw the head of a Dutch officer over the city wall, the Dutch immediately sent them seven Spanish heads.

Both sides shamelessly violated all the laws of war. The Duke of Alba was reluctant to take enemy soldiers prisoner, the Dutch killed the Spanish soldiers who surrendered, after promising to set them free. Both of them often killed parliamentarians, moreover, sometimes enemy commanders were specially called in to negotiate - only so that false parliamentarians could kill them. William of Orange did not hesitate to ask for help from the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent, and the words became the slogan of the gozes: “Better Turks than the Pope". This motto can be seen on the medallion of sea geuzes below:


And the banner of sea gozes - a red flag with a crescent moon, suspiciously resembled a Turkish one.

Sultan Suleiman, in a response letter, stated that he was religiously close to the Protestants - “since they do not worship idols, they believe in one God and fight against the pope and the emperor", and promised help at the first request. One can imagine how the Christians of the countries of Southern Europe reacted to this union, whom the Ottoman admirals and Maghreb pirates took thousands of prisoners and, like cattle, sold in the slave markets.

But the "iron duke" Alba steadily pushed back the rebels and captured their cities. In 1571, the following medal was minted in his honor:


On the back of it are the words:God and the king are the goals of life».

By 1572, the rebels were in a desperate situation, and it seemed that their final defeat was a matter of the near future. In that year, Elizabeth was forced to make concessions to the Spaniards and close the English harbors to the Gueuses. But she continued to subsidize them. The rebels were helped by chance. In the spring of 1572, the wind drove the Gueuze ships of Admiral Willem de la Marck to the mouth of the Meuse, where the peaceful city of Brielle is located, in which there were no Spanish troops.


Lumey van der Marck, admiraal van de watergeuzen, 1572

On April 1, the Gyoza not only captured this city, but remained in it, making it their base.


The capture of Brielle by "sea geezes" in 1572. Engraving from 1583

Upon learning of what had happened, the city of Vlissingen rebelled, and then an uprising began in Holland and Friesland. Amsterdam and Middelburg remained loyal to the crown. The methods of the rebels can be judged by their actions in Haarlem. In June 1572, the city was visited by the envoy of William of Orange, who failed to convince the inhabitants to join the rebels. And on July 4, the Gyozes came and announced that they would burn Haarlem if its inhabitants did not support the rebellious prince. All citizens, including women and children, were forcibly forced to participate in the work to strengthen the city walls.

The bitterness of the parties reached the limit. The newly occupied Mechelen Alba gave his soldiers for plunder for three days, so that they would “refresh a little”. Valenciennes, Zutphen and Naarden (which suffered especially) were ravaged, but Mons, who surrendered in time, was spared.


Massacre at Naarden engraved by Jan Luyken

At the beginning of 1573, the Duke of Alba moved to the northern provinces - Holland, Zeeland, Friesland and Utrecht, whose governor-general was proclaimed William of Orange, who converted to Calvinism (the Calvinists were the most determined opponents of the Catholics). Haarlem capitulated after 7 months of siege - in July 1573. Alba, in exchange for an indemnity, forbade the ruin of this city, but almost all the soldiers of the garrison were executed.


An episode of the siege of Haarlem in an illustration for Charles de Coster's novel The Legend of Ulenspiegel

But the Spaniards failed to capture Alkmaar. The siege of Leiden, led by Francisco de Valdes, was also unsuccessful: in October 1573, after the defeat of the Spanish fleet in the Zuiderzee, his troops had to withdraw (this city was never taken by the Spaniards). In addition, the situation in the Mediterranean aggravated, where Venice was forced to cede Cyprus to the Ottomans (and the following year Turkey annexed Tunisia to its possessions). Philip II had no money to continue the war in the Netherlands, and he tried to change the situation by recalling the Duke of Alba and appointing instead Luis de Requezens, who abolished the "Council of Mutiny" and the Alcabala the following year. This did not stop the war in the Netherlands, and in 1576 an incident occurred in Antwerp, which was included in history titled "Spanish Fury". About 5 thousand Spanish soldiers, who were not paid for two years, robbed the city for three days - more than 600 houses were burned, up to 8 thousand inhabitants died. The news of this led to a new aggravation of the situation in the Netherlands.


"Spanish Fury" in Antwerp on an engraving by Frans Hogenberg

The illegitimate son of Charles V, Juan of Austria, who commanded the Christian fleet at the Battle of Lepanto, and Don Juan's nephew, Alessandro Farnese, who also fought at Lepanto, also visited the Spanish governors in the Netherlands. But that's another story.

Opal of the Duke of Alba


Arriving in Spain, Alba immediately felt a chill from Philip II.

"Kings use people like oranges - first squeeze the juice and then throw away the peel"

he then said bitterly.

In 1578, Philip II ordered a review of the court case against the duke's son and heir, Fadrique, who violated the promise given to Magdalena de Guzman (this was described in first article). It turned out that Fadrika was assisted by his father, who gave him permission for a secret marriage with Maria, the daughter of Grand Garcia Alvarez de Toledo and Osorio, 4th Marquis of Vilafranca del Bierzo. Fadrique was again arrested, and the Duke of Alba and two of his secretaries (Fernando de Albornoz and Esteban Ibarra) were sent into exile in the city of Useda.

The last victory of the "iron duke"



Alba's disgrace ended in 1580, when, on the advice of Cardinal Granvela, Philip II put him at the head of an army heading for Portugal. The fact is that the childless king of this country, Sebastian I, died on August 4, 1578 in the battle of El Ksar el Kebir. Here, at the confluence of the rivers Lukkos and al-Mahazin, a 20-strong army, which, in addition to the Portuguese, included Spaniards, Germans, Italians and Moroccans, met in battle with a 50-strong Moroccan army (it also included the Janissary corps). This battle is known as the "Battle of the Three Kings": the Portuguese and two Moroccan ones - the former (Mohammed al-Mutawakkil, who turned to the Portuguese for help) and the ruling one. They all died then. At first, the Portuguese army pressed the opponents, but after hitting the flanks, it fled, and many soldiers, including King Sebastian and Mohammed al-Mutawakkil, drowned. And the ruling Sultan of Morocco, Abd al-Malik, died of some kind of illness before the battle began. His brother, Ahmad al-Mansur ("Winner"), was proclaimed the new ruler of the country. Since he received a huge ransom for the captured noble Portuguese, he had another nickname in Morocco - “al-Dhahabi” (“Golden”).


Battle of El-Ksar-el-Kebir on an early XNUMXth-century engraving

The deceased King Sebastian was succeeded by his cousin, Cardinal Henry. But he, for obvious reasons, did not have children. The empty throne was claimed by Antonio, the prior of the Knights of Malta in Crato - the illegitimate son of the Infante Luis and the grandson of the Portuguese king Manuel I (years of life - 1469-1521).


Anthony I of Portugal

He was proclaimed King of Portugal in June 1580. The Spanish king Philip II, the son of the Portuguese princess Isabella and also the grandson of Manuel I, did not agree with his claims to the throne (at the same time, he was legitimate).

The Duke of Alba, who was already 73 years old, at the head of an army of 20, moved to Lisbon. On August 25, 1580, he defeated the Portuguese army in the battle of Alcantara, and on August 27, he entered the capital of this country. Here is what the united possessions of Spain and Portugal are now:


Philip II appointed the Duke Viceroy of Portugal. After this triumph, Fernando Alvarez de Toledo, Duke of Alba, lived for a little more than two years. On December 11, 1582, he died in Lisbon at the age of 75.
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 27 June 2022 05: 53
    +12
    Alba, a man of his time, it makes no sense to condemn, exalt him ..
    1. insafufa
      insafufa 27 June 2022 10: 35
      +7
      "There are 3 things that are absolutely true, but which are very hard to believe. The first is that the English Queen Elizabeth is a virgin. The second is that Ferdinand of Aragon is a good commander. The third is that I became a good Catholic ..." (Henry IV is the leader Huguenots, King of Navara, and then of France, founder of the Bourbon dynasty). Ferdinand Aragonese husband of Elisabeth of Parma de facto business manager in the Netherlands Chief of the Duke of Alba.
  2. Catfish
    Catfish 27 June 2022 06: 00
    +9
    Good morning, I hope at least Monday starts on Saturday. smile drinks

    The world has always been cruel and people, then and now, differed little from each other, but about the "atrocities of the Spanish" soldiery I had to read a lot from different authors. And what is there to say about other countries, if they have muzzled their own people with the Inquisition. No one was an angel, no country, no nation, but the Inquisition was born and flourished only in Spain. I don’t know what bloody deeds the maritime geese were noted for, but they clearly had serious reasons to hate the Spaniards fiercely.


    Thanks to Valery for the whole excellent cycle. good drinks
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 27 June 2022 06: 18
      +6
      Is Saturday a working day? For what holiday? laughingGood morning!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 27 June 2022 06: 29
        +8
        Alexey hi read the Strugatskys. smile
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 27 June 2022 06: 32
          +4
          Alexei hi re-read the Strugatskys.
          hi I do not want... laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 27 June 2022 06: 57
            +4
            Free - will ... But in vain. yes
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 27 June 2022 17: 07
              +5
              Free - will ... But in vain.
              Of course, in vain. I re-read the early ones myself. Late ones cause a gag reflex, so I read only for therapeutic purposes.
          2. VLR
            27 June 2022 07: 18
            +11
            I agree with you: the Strugatskys are "leaving" the history of Soviet literature. Now it is simply clear to the naked eye that they wrote typical Soviet "production novels" in a little science fiction wrapper. The same trilogy about "Monday" is a boring satire on the Soviet scientific research institute, the meaning of which few people understand. They beckoned with fabulousness in the first part, and then dumped a rather boring novel on the readers' heads about dissident junior researchers who are not allowed to turn around by bureaucrats - otherwise they would not only overtake America, but also Mars. Retain the relevance of things like "Beetle in the anthill." But there are few such works.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 June 2022 07: 36
              +7
              The Strugatskys "leave" in the history of Soviet literature

              Well, that’s enough. laughing
              they wrote typical Soviet "production novels" in a little science fiction wrapper.

              Yes, really? It takes a special talent to see this. wassat Do you judge all books by "Monday"? Are you sure that satire is at the research institute? M-yes...
              And besides "Beetle" - let's say "Snail on the slope", "Predatory things of the century", "Inhabited island" - yes, it makes no sense to list everything here. Briefly speaking
              typical Soviet "production novels"
              Well, what else is there to talk about. laughing
              "Doomed City" is also a production theme? belay
              1. astra wild2
                astra wild2 27 June 2022 08: 46
                +3
                Uncle Kostya,: *there are no comrades for the taste and color"
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 27 June 2022 09: 15
                  +2
                  This is not about food and rags, so this common saying does not fit here. request
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 27 June 2022 09: 28
                    +5
                    this common saying does not apply here.
                    Why on earth?
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 27 June 2022 09: 41
                      +2
                      And with any, well, unless you first sniff them, then don’t try them on the tooth, and then don’t arrange them on the bookshelf alternating the colors of the covers - the spine is red - the spine is blue - then red again, everything is prettier than a bare wall. fellow
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 27 June 2022 09: 43
                        +6
                        "Shura, don't make a cult out of food!" (FROM)
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 June 2022 09: 54
                        +7
                        Alas, das ist niht been Shyra. request
                        “The inexperienced Panikovsky lit such a big fire that it seemed like an entire village was on fire. Fire, puffing, rushed in all directions. While the travelers were struggling with the pillar of fire, Panikovsky, crouching, ran into the field and returned, holding a warm crooked cucumber in his hand. Ostap quickly pulled it out of Panikovsky's hands, saying:

                        - Do not make a cult out of food.

                        After that, he ate the cucumber himself.”


                  2. astra wild2
                    astra wild2 27 June 2022 11: 35
                    +7
                    Uncle Kostya, don't take me for a naive hole.
                    This proverb is universal and will fit anywhere.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 27 June 2022 11: 55
                      +3
                      Uncle Kostya, don't take me for a naive hole.

                      God forbid! belay I just expressed my opinion, if it "sounded" somehow insulting, then I'm sorry generously. smile love
                    2. Phil77
                      Phil77 27 June 2022 13: 49
                      +6
                      Quote: Astra wild2
                      consider me naive

                      Eh! And why am I not Lieutenant Rzhevsky?! You, Vera, turned out to be a very pretty little spot.
                      "I laughed so hard there." (c)
                      laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing
                    3. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 27 June 2022 17: 17
                      +3
                      Uncle Kostya, don't take me for a naive hole.
                      Thanks for the new meme! I will use it just in case good
                      1. astra wild2
                        astra wild2 28 June 2022 06: 10
                        +2
                        Enjoy. I'm not greedy.
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 27 June 2022 17: 14
              +5
              The same trilogy about "Monday" is a boring satire on the Soviet scientific research institute, the meaning of which few people understand. They beckoned with fabulousness in the first part, and then dumped a rather boring novel about dissident junior researchers on the heads of readers
              Are you talking about the continuation of "Monday", about the "Tale of the Troika"? A filthy attempt at satire at the research institute. By that time, Borya was no longer working in astronomy, both became (sorry) members of the joint venture, professional writers. By the way, in the days of his youth (early 80s) he talked with Boris' colleagues, they were at a loss that their wall newspaper, the fruit of joint creativity, the Strugatskys simply shoved into "Monday" and passed off as their work. They did not share the fee, but they could well cover the clearing.
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 27 June 2022 06: 39
          +7
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Alexey re-read the Strugatskys.

          Hello friends!
          Yes, Konstantin! It turned out spectacularly. Bravo.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 27 June 2022 06: 56
            +5
            Bravo, cat musician.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 27 June 2022 07: 02
              +8
              This is from Evgeny Migunov's illustrations for the story "Monday begins on Saturday." A very good artist. good
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 27 June 2022 17: 23
              +3
              This is a talking cat Vasily with his sclerosis. "He did not know a single fairy tale to the end, and not a single song either. The only verse he told in full was "The House That Jack Built" in Marshak's translation," and some other song. I already forgot. How is it with one aphorist: "Alzheimer and Parkinson came to me / And they shook my hand for a long time ..."
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 27 June 2022 07: 06
            +8
            Hello, Sergey! smile
            And what, there are books that almost never lose their relevance. wink
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 27 June 2022 17: 25
              +5
              It would be nothing, about the synecdoche, if the brothers themselves in Vibegally had not been reborn at the end of their lives.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 27 June 2022 17: 43
                +1
                If the Vibegalli brothers themselves had not been reborn at the end of their lives.


                I disagree with you, The Doomed City is an excellent book, I always re-read it with pleasure, and it is their last, if I am not mistaken.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 27 June 2022 17: 53
                  +4
                  During the height of the catastrophe, they gave interviews right and left on the topic "how we can improve the country," the recipes were quite Gaidar's. This is not surprising, since the haydar kid himself was married to the daughter of one of them. In my opinion, the last book was Lame Fate, published in Aurora. It left me with a very bad impression. But "Grad" did not read. By the way, this is not the same thing, "Grad" and "Destiny"?
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 27 June 2022 17: 58
                    +3
                    But I didn’t read “Destiny”, I tried it - it didn’t work. But "Grad" is a completely different thing. And I perceive the brothers exclusively as writers, and their political views do not interest me, especially who and to whom was married there. smile
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 27 June 2022 18: 11
                      +5
                      I am also not interested in their personal preferences, I even read Oscar Wilde sometimes, but I remember their naive cannibalistic recipes. Then he tried to understand where they could have come from, so I remembered this smacking, related to them, smacking smack.
    2. parusnik
      parusnik 27 June 2022 06: 36
      +6
      the Inquisition was born and flourished only in Spain.
      The Inquisition, along with Christianity, was born, so do not blame the Spaniards ... laughing
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 27 June 2022 06: 48
        +5
        Quote: parusnik
        so do not blame the Spaniards ...

        All are "good". Are there people on planet Earth without conditional "skeletons in the closet"? recourse
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 27 June 2022 07: 26
          +7
          Why are there people, everyone has something to hide. drinks

        2. vladcub
          vladcub 27 June 2022 08: 11
          +2
          I don't know them, do you?
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 27 June 2022 20: 14
            +2
            Quote: vladcub
            I don't know them, do you?

            You know, buddy? I thought all day. I thought and worked, worked and thought. So. On July 17, 2019, here on VO there was an article "Peacefulness Index", it described a kind of security rating of the countries of the world. There are many components in it / if you are interested, you will find and read it. /, in fact, Iceland is recognized as the safest country in the world. So what? Let's think that it is. fellow

            Well, since the state consists of its citizens, the Icelanders are precisely those people who do not have "skeletons in the closet". Or? Rare by definition. Something like that, amigo.
            1. VLR
              27 June 2022 21: 05
              +3
              Iceland is a large sparsely populated village in which almost everyone is related to each other in varying degrees of proximity.
              By the way, genetic studies have shown that 40% of Icelanders are of Celtic or Balto-Slavic origin, that is, they are not descendants of the Vikings, but of slaves brought to the island. In other Scandinavian wounds, there are more descendants of the Vikings.
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 28 June 2022 11: 35
                0
                "almost all of each other's relatives" is not a hindrance. Remember Cain and Abel.
                Perhaps because "a sparsely populated village"?
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 27 June 2022 06: 54
        +8
        The Inquisition, along with Christianity, was born


        Seriously? wassat And I thought it was a sinful thing that Christianity was born years, that way, a thousand years before the Inquisition.

        -- "The Inquisition itself, as a judicial church tribunal, arose in 1215 by decree of Pope Innocent III." (c)

        So, the first Christians were thrown to the lions to be torn to pieces by the damned Roman inquisitors? laughing
        1. VLR
          27 June 2022 07: 11
          +10
          Inquisitorial courts were created by Pope Innocent III and a certain Dominic Guzman, who was declared a saint in 1234. They were created to deal with the Cathars, and then, when they ran out, they found a huge number of witches, and they were also "worried" about heretics. In fact, the self-disbanding was such a fun campaign? The Spanish kings' own inquisition was set up to identify baptized Jews and Moors who continued to observe the old customs. And the Protestants - "each hut has its own toys": there was no central control, but there were no deterrents either, so there was sometimes more fanatical madness than the Catholics.
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 27 June 2022 08: 11
            +11
            Good morning everyone,
            Valery thanks for the article, I read it with pleasure!
            The Inquisition was also in Byzantium, of course, not on a permanent basis, but as a temporary commission to deal with issues with heretics.
            In Russia-Rus there was no institute with that name itself, but with heretics, when they appeared under Ivan III, they did exactly the same as everywhere else.
            Ivan was a rather liberated person and for some time shared the ideas of heretics.
            hi
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 27 June 2022 08: 52
              +5
              NYA, he shared the ideas of non-possessors, i.e. followers of Nile of Sorsk in their disputes with the Josephites. But his son Vasily was completely on the side of the latter.
              1. kor1vet1974
                kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 09: 35
                +6
                But his son Vasily was completely on the side of the latter.
                with one caveat, he took the side of the latter, after the former, they were not allowed to marry again. hi
              2. Ryazan87
                Ryazan87 27 June 2022 18: 37
                +2
                Yes, and heretics appeared much earlier than the period of the reign of Ivan III, the same hairdressers are already mentioned in the 14th century with might and main. As for "Rusiya", although for a very short time, we had an Order of Proto-Inquisitorial Affairs, which was a supervisory authority.
          2. kor1vet1974
            kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 09: 10
            +6
            Inquisitorial courts created by Pope Innocent III
            But they did not arise out of nowhere. In Trier, back in the period of the Roman Empire, somewhere in the middle of the XNUMXth century, the first Christian heretic and his comrades, the bishop of some Spanish town, were executed. Either they burned it, or simply, according to the tradition of that time, they chopped off their heads, I don’t remember already. And everything was an honor in honor and a trial and a sentence. They accused me of all mortal sins: heresy, witchcraft, violation of morality. And this bishop was a vegan ascetic, but had doubts.
          3. bk0010
            bk0010 27 June 2022 16: 50
            +2
            Quote: VlR
            And the Protestants - "each hut has its own toys": there was no central control, but there were no deterrents either, so there was sometimes more fanatical madness than the Catholics.
            And they burned far more witches than the Catholics.
        2. parusnik
          parusnik 27 June 2022 17: 47
          +4
          So, the first Christians were thrown to the lions to be torn to pieces by the damned Roman inquisitors?
          Oh, so in your opinion, Christianity existed in the time of the Etruscans? laughing The fact is that gladiator fights, throwing slaves to be eaten by wild animals, the Romans adopted from the Etruscans .. This cute entertainment existed for a long time, before the advent of Christianity and the Inquisition .. hi laughing Uncle Kostya, you are a breeder, you like to cross ..
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 27 June 2022 17: 53
            +3
            You are a breeder, love to cross ..

            Exactly! Having crossed a snake with a hedgehog, he received half a meter of barbed wire! laughing
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 27 June 2022 18: 28
              +5
              You should be more careful with experiments ... smile
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 28 June 2022 11: 39
        0
        On behalf of the Holy Inquisition, gratitude
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 27 June 2022 06: 50
      +6
      Kostya, welcome. "thank you for the whole great cycle" here 100% agree.
      It's been a successful cycle. Just on the subject of the site: Military-historical topics
    4. Korsar4
      Korsar4 27 June 2022 07: 16
      +3
      Hi Constantine!

      Blood was shed incessantly. However, humanity regularly does this.
    5. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 27 June 2022 09: 55
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      but the Inquisition was born and flourished only in Spain.

      Come on!
      She was "born" in Southern France, and flourished everywhere, but most of all in the Holy Roman Empire. By the way, the author of "Hammer of the Witches" Heinrich Kramer is a German.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 27 June 2022 10: 19
        +5
        The Inquisition itself, as a judicial church tribunal, arose in 1215, and The Hammer of the Witches was written in Latin in 1486-1487. By this time, the infection had spread throughout almost the entire European world and stepped across the ocean.
        She was "born" in southern France

        Torquemada French?
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 27 June 2022 10: 37
          +4
          Quote: Sea Cat
          The Inquisition itself, as a judicial church tribunal, arose in 1215 year

          About the cathars
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Torquemada French?

          No. A descendant of baptized Jews, but he was born in 1420, that is, 200 years after the establishment of the Inquisition. hi
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 27 June 2022 10: 40
          +7
          Torquemada is, first and foremost, a Dominican. Like Dominic Guzman, the founder of this monastic order, like Heinrich Kramer.
          Uncle Kostya, the papal inquisition and the Spanish inquisition are two different organizations, as you were quite rightly pointed out. Please, next time, before making statements like the one highlighted by Ivan, at least consult with me, otherwise, in the midst of the controversy, you will also cite Don Reba as an argument.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 27 June 2022 10: 49
            +7
            you will also cite Don Rebu as an argument.


            Why not? You are not familiar with Guzman or Torquemada, only from printed sources, as well as with Don Reba. laughing And it is very difficult to find a whiter two-faced and false science than history. And thanks for the advice, but the thing is, my friend, I'm not doing serious business here, but simply "to spend eternity" in a pleasant company. That's all the freezes. smile drinks
        3. bk0010
          bk0010 27 June 2022 16: 58
          +4
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Torquemada French?
          Spain is a victim of an ideological war on the part of England. And the brutality of the Inquisition is only one of its pillars. Another, for example, cruelty to the Indians. But if you compare the number and life of Indians (full of Indians and mestizos, full-fledged citizens) in South and Central America (where the Spaniards and the Portuguese ruled) with the number and life of Indians (a meager number of Indians survived, there are almost no mestizos, they sit on reservations) in northern America (where the British ruled), questions may arise.
  3. Grossvater
    Grossvater 27 June 2022 06: 54
    +5
    Quote: Sea Cat
    but the Inquisition was born and flourished only in Spain.
    She may have been born there, but she blossomed in the most violent color in Protestant Germany and, especially, Switzerland.
    The last witch was burned in Geneva in 1782 or something. In wild Russia, Lomonosov had already died twenty years ago, but in the culture of Europe, they set fire to an aunt at the stake.
    In general, the Protestants here outdid the Catholics, although the most recent execution, yes, in Spain, in 1826. But there the poor fellow was simply hanged.
    The Salem witches were also killed by the Protestants.
    1. astra wild2
      astra wild2 27 June 2022 08: 56
      +3
      This does not make it easier for women, whether from Protestants or from Catholics. Campfire "pleasure" so-so
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 27 June 2022 09: 16
        +5
        Quote: Astra wild2
        This does not make it easier for women, whether from Protestants or from Catholics.

        You are heavy ... female dolyushka! laughing
        Black cats also had a hard time. bully
        1. astra wild2
          astra wild2 27 June 2022 11: 21
          +3
          Here you are right. Wishing to change places, something was not
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 27 June 2022 14: 27
            0
            Quote: Astra wild2
            Wishing to change places, something was not

            Well, what do you want? Patriarchal mores. The gender revolution in "those epic times, now almost forgotten" and sorry for naturalism, did not even smell.
            laughing
      2. kor1vet1974
        kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 09: 29
        +7
        You can ask Zhanna, from the beginning they burned it, then they recognized the saint, they were mistaken, they say.
        1. astra wild2
          astra wild2 27 June 2022 11: 27
          +2
          Actually, there are a lot of mysteries with Jeanne d, Arc. Valery had about her. Later I read it again and I will say: "Jeanne's case" is a mystery of the millennium
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 27 June 2022 14: 21
            +2
            Quote: Astra wild2
            and I will say: "the case of Jeanne" is a mystery of the millennium

            Again, "22".
            Read Togoeva Olga Igorevna, and you will have ... information!
            "A heretic turned saint." hi
            Interestingly, but the assassination of John F. Kennedy, is it not that? Not the "mystery of the millennium"? laughing
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 27 June 2022 16: 20
              +2
              Read Togoeva Olga Igorevna,
              You pleasantly surprised me!
              Until now, I thought that this name is familiar only to three people on the forum.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 27 June 2022 17: 49
                +3
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                only three people on the forum.

                Anton! By the way, it was on your tip that I found and downloaded this book. I read it, and before my eyes it was Churikov, then Yolovich in armor. And Kassel with that ridiculous / in our time. looms in the background. bully
            2. astra wild2
              astra wild2 28 June 2022 06: 06
              +1
              John Kennedy does not pull for millennia
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 28 June 2022 06: 19
                0
                Quote: Astra wild2
                John Kennedy does not pull for millennia

                Kennedy may not pull, but the mystery associated with his assassination? It may even be. So! Who killed John F. Kennedy? bully
                1. astra wild2
                  astra wild2 28 June 2022 06: 35
                  +1
                  For those who benefit. And there are very few of them: a) the mafia, Bob Kennedy thoroughly annoyed them. "Bob is the tail of a dog. Eat to kill a dog and the tail will not interfere"
                  b) the vice got tired of the "prefix" and wanted to be president.
                  You choose: options
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 28 June 2022 07: 01
                    0
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    options

                    And if you add: CIA, KGB, Masons, aliens? Options say? Well, well. laughing
                    Jeanne's secret smokes nervously in a corner. laughing
                    1. astra wild2
                      astra wild2 28 June 2022 07: 29
                      0
                      Aliens, Masons are excluded. The KGB and the CIA fit perfectly into these options.
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 28 June 2022 08: 06
                        +1
                        Quote: Astra wild2
                        named options.

                        And what did Joseph Kennedy Sr., or simply “Joe”, make a fortune on, do you know? On bootlegging! During Prohibition.
                        Lord! Yes, if the "mafia" was weak to remove Hoover, then is it possible to say that she was involved in the assassination of the President of the United States?!?!
    2. kor1vet1974
      kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 09: 32
      +3
      The Salem witches were also killed by the Protestants.
      And all together, good Christians ... that Catholics, that Protestants, Orthodox ..
  4. vladcub
    vladcub 27 June 2022 08: 09
    0
    "goods passed through seven hands" naturally: "one with a bipod and seven with a spoon"
    1. lisikat2
      lisikat2 27 June 2022 10: 52
      +1
      Everyone longed for the brew
  5. Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 27 June 2022 08: 16
    +3
    Comrades,
    and I have a question.
    I'm very, very bad at architecture styles.
    But here is the engraving given in the text:
    "Spanish Fury" in Antwerp on an engraving by Frans Hogenberg

    The building in the background, maybe a late engraving? A very grandiose building for the 16th century?
    Even in Italy there are only a few...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 27 June 2022 09: 02
      +9
      Good morning Edward!
      This is the Antwerp City Hall, a building built in 1561-65. It is considered one of the first Renaissance architectural solutions in northern Europe.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 27 June 2022 09: 11
        +6
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        This is the Antwerp City Hall, a building built in 1561-65. It is considered one of the first Renaissance architectural solutions in northern Europe.

        I will add that the architect is Cornelius Floris.
        Good morning! Anton. Eduard. hi
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          Edward Vashchenko 27 June 2022 12: 48
          +4
          Sergey good afternoon,
          thanks, but I didn’t get to Antwerp))) I’ve always been in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbmy interests laughing
          Yours faithfully,
          hi
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 27 June 2022 13: 05
            +5
            Greetings Edward!
            Yes actually?
            I have never been anywhere west of the Elbe. And then on the "ticket" of the USSR Ministry of Defense. laughing I just love interesting questions and? Searching for answers to these questions. Love for detectives is taking its toll. bully
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              Edward Vashchenko 27 June 2022 17: 15
              +3
              Yes, love for detectives helps. I myself have long fallen out of love, as it is impossible to embrace the immensity.
              But ... hands remember. laughing
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 27 June 2022 18: 46
                +3
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                I fell out of love a long time ago

                No. This love is always with me. About the immense? I agree, there are a lot of interesting authors now. Nesbe, Grange, Galbraith, Arne Dahl, DeMille, Diver. Very, very much. .Leonova.
                I forgot to clarify that Galbraith is none other than the "mother" of Harry Potter! But the Strike series is very excitingly written, the main characters were especially successful. good
                1. Edward Vashchenko
                  Edward Vashchenko 27 June 2022 19: 39
                  +3
                  I forgot to clarify that Galbraith is none other than the "mother" of Harry Potter! But the Strike series is very exciting

                  I'll know! Thank you: like this, live and learn forever good
                  Best regards
                  hi
      2. Luminman
        Luminman 27 June 2022 11: 04
        +2
        Considered one of the first Renaissance architectural solutions

        This is not a classic Renaissance. There are some gothic elements...
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 27 June 2022 11: 57
          +4
          And this is not classical Gothic, but nevertheless it is considered one of the first examples of this architectural style.
          1. Luminman
            Luminman 27 June 2022 12: 14
            +3
            At first glance, it seems like a gothic, but looking closely - it’s not clear what ... Some kind of stucco molding!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 27 June 2022 12: 19
              +4
              This is the facade of the Cathedral of the Abbey of Saint-Denis, the second half of the XII century.
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 27 June 2022 15: 03
                +4
                This is the facade of the Cathedral of the Abbey of Saint-Denis, the second half of the XII century.
                The walls are too light for the 12th century.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 27 June 2022 15: 05
                  +2
                  The walls are too light for the 12th century
                  In what sense?
                  1. sivuch
                    sivuch 27 June 2022 15: 48
                    +1
                    Usually, over several centuries, the walls darken very much.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 27 June 2022 15: 59
                      +3
                      This architectural monument is twice as old
                      but not much darker.
                      1. sivuch
                        sivuch 27 June 2022 16: 52
                        +2
                        It was said about the walls of St. Viti's Cathedral in Prague that they were originally white.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 27 June 2022 17: 00
                        +2
                        "White" is a very conditional concept, I can tell you this as a builder.
                  2. Edward Vashchenko
                    Edward Vashchenko 27 June 2022 17: 16
                    +2
                    The walls can be cleaned in such a time laughing
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 27 June 2022 17: 21
                      +3
                      They clean it up! And covered with preservative primers.
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 27 June 2022 18: 37
                  +3
                  Quote: sivuch
                  light for the 12th century

                  Assumption Cathedral. In Vladimir. The main building of the XII century.
      3. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 27 June 2022 12: 47
        +4
        Good afternoon Anton,
        thanks for the info!
  6. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 08: 17
    +4
    I must say that the discipline in the army of Alba was "iron", any "amateur" was severely suppressed, and there were no unauthorized robberies of the civilian population or captured cities.
    Uh-huh .. something like this:
    "Then, take off your boots.
    - Boots?
    - How long have you been going?
    - No, a year and a half.
    - And barefoot?
    - No.
    - Some bandit took it off me this morning.
    - Bandit.
    - And you?
    - An honest man took off from you, and a bandit from me.
    - It doesn't make it any easier for me.
    1. lisikat2
      lisikat2 27 June 2022 10: 50
      +1
      "Wedding in Malinovka". Many Soviet films are interesting, but I don’t want to watch them again, but I can watch these comedies many times
  7. sivuch
    sivuch 27 June 2022 08: 49
    +2
    https://uchebnikfree.com/evropyi-ameriki-istoriya/iii-5888.html
    Here about the vigorous activity of Alessandro Farnese in the Netherlands.
    Source: A. PIRENNE. NETHERLANDS REVOLUTION. 1937
  8. astra wild2
    astra wild2 27 June 2022 08: 53
    +3
    Good morning Valery, I am grateful to you that you distract from the gray reality.
    When a person is young and healthy, he does not notice dullness, and if you are for and you can only rely on yourself. In short, THANK YOU
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 27 June 2022 08: 58
      +4
      Quote: Astra wild2
      that you distract from the gray reality.

      What is it gray? Current reality? Very bright, even too much.
      Quote: Astra wild2
      When a person is young and healthy, he does not notice dullness, and if you are for and you can only rely on yourself.

      Judge subjectively. It all depends on the specific person and his character. Some are already from childhood ... elderly. bully
      Quote: Astra wild2
      In short, THANK YOU

      But this is for sure! I join. hi
      1. kor1vet1974
        kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 09: 50
        +3
        What is it gray? Current reality? Very bright, even too much.
        Yeah: paint fairs, colorful dances, wooden swings, painted carousels.
        The sounds of a hurdy-gurdy, fortune-telling by a gypsy, honey gingerbread, and a balloon. hi laughing Magic balls of happiness.. laughing
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. kor1vet1974
            kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 10: 21
            +5
            Great! laughing In truth, he had other balls of happiness in mind. In one fairy tale, the ruler orders soap bubbles to be blown for the people on Sundays. Assuring the people that whoever catches the soap bubble will fulfill his most cherished desire ... Hope for the people for the ruler, entertainment..
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 June 2022 10: 41
              +3
              .For the people hope, for the ruler, entertainment.

              How similar it is to real life. laughing
              1. kor1vet1974
                kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 11: 02
                +2
                The tale is a lie and there is a hint in it .... laughing
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 27 June 2022 15: 06
                +3
                Quote: Sea Cat
                real life.

                Oh god
                "Magic balls" have been removed! What a strict, strict moderator!!! From the Puritans? laughing
                It seems that all adult uncles and aunts. Why would this struggle for morality? bully
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 27 June 2022 15: 15
                  +3
                  And who knows, the undercurrents are not visible to the naked eye and ... "Everything is not what it seems and not vice versa" (c) request
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 27 June 2022 10: 20
          +3
          Quote: kor1vet1974
          Magic balls of happiness..

          Our whole life is a struggle.
          "SR" slogan, if I'm not mistaken? laughing Sarcasm, if anything. As in the previous comment. bully hi
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 27 June 2022 10: 43
            +4
            Socialist-Revolutionary slogan: "In the struggle you will find your right."
            Hello, Sergey!
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 27 June 2022 12: 19
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              you are right."

              Hello Anton!
              Ashibochka is out! laughing
              But the meaning is almost the same.
          2. kor1vet1974
            kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 11: 08
            +3
            Our whole life is a struggle.

            All life is a struggle, and everyone in it is a fighter!
            Yes, our wise and great leader was right.
            If you win, then well done.
            And you lose - gray and faceless.

            "To fight for the cause" was "always ready!"
            and swore before the line of pioneers,
            continue the work of great-grandfathers, fathers,
            so that they can grow up as a worthy example.

            The motto is: "Fight and seek."
            Found, again forward and do not give up.
            Test yourself and others for strength.
            Not to sleep so that, but to remain a person.

            Struggle. She is everywhere and always
            in fortune the wheel pushes the sticks.
            Countries, cities will be born in the struggle
            and residents of a crowded communal apartment.

            Fight for conquered minds
            for votes, for wallets, for souls,
            for a place in the bins of Satan,
            for every inch of habitable land.

            The struggle of economic systems,
            currents, views, opinions and policies.
            An athlete is fighting for the "gold"
            famous poet and famous critic.

            For meters, the son fights with his father,
            A tedious satirist - for a piece of impromptu.
            The fight against a drug dealer-scoundrel
            led by fighters of the invisible front.

            Retiree fights for life
            in the slums, paycheck to paycheck,
            teacher, doctor, worker, engineer...
            Anyone who is not spoiled by mandates.

            Good, as before, fights evil,
            more and more defeated remaining ...
            And our whole mortal world stands on
            while developing harmoniously.
            Nadezhda Boltacheva
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 June 2022 11: 32
              +2
              Nothing new under the sun and everything has already been said. yes

              "What to do, Faust?
              This is your limit
              Nobody transgresses him.
              All reasonable misses:
              Another from laziness, one from deeds;
              Who believes, who has lost faith;
              He didn’t have time to enjoy,
              He enjoyed through measure,
              And everyone yawns and lives
              And the coffin is waiting for you all, yawning.
              Yawn and you. "(C)
              1. kor1vet1974
                kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 11: 53
                +3
                Nothing new under the sun and everything has already been said.
                If it was said, can you not say it? laughing
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 27 June 2022 11: 58
                  +2
                  Who knows ... When the "trailer starts" you may not have time. smile
                  1. kor1vet1974
                    kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 12: 06
                    +3
                    The trailer started off, I know one person who runs after him, and everything is trying to jump in order to run forward .. to the beginning of the train .. laughing
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 27 June 2022 12: 55
                      +3
                      In our general composition, the driver is always the same, does it make sense to climb into the first car if they still won’t let them go to the levers. laughing
                      1. kor1vet1974
                        kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 13: 14
                        +3
                        And would you help him jump into the trailer, give a hand, ask for the meaning? laughing
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 June 2022 14: 12
                        +2
                        And I'm not in a trailer, I live at a half-station, I'm not interested in these railcar problems, and the way, in my opinion, is a dead end. smile
            2. vladcub
              vladcub 27 June 2022 13: 46
              +1
              "this is the motto" our link had a divisive: "we were born to make a fairy tale come true"
        3. astra wild2
          astra wild2 27 June 2022 11: 57
          +3
          "honey gingerbread", once in a fairy tale my mother sometimes bought me "printed gingerbread". Now I’m trying for my girlfriend. We already have a whole ritual: once a month we have a tea party with a printed gingerbread or pie. We drink tea from saucers, and “Puzik” sour cream. Usually we drink coffee, but once a month we forget coffee
      2. lisikat2
        lisikat2 27 June 2022 10: 41
        +2
        "It all depends on the individual" I agree with you here, but age also affects perception.
        For example: at the age of 7-8, do you willingly read Leo Tolstoy or Anderson?
        So it is with the perception of the surrounding reality. We have a 19-year-old girl who works and works responsibly, but she is like a ball against a wall, politics. And I voted for the "party of pensioners", and I still have to live and live until retirement.
        1. kor1vet1974
          kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 11: 10
          +3
          and I still live and live until retirement.
          Until retirement, not everyone will live .. Here, for example: Yu. Shatunov and P. Narcissus, did not live ...
          1. lisikat2
            lisikat2 27 June 2022 12: 05
            +1
            So life in general is a risky thing, but we live and do not strive to die
          2. lisikat2
            lisikat2 27 June 2022 12: 09
            +1
            I don’t know about Narcissus, but they say about Yura that he, as they say: “buzzed” Constantly, but this does not add health. I realized this and for 3 years now we have only been remembering the "fun time". So I’m guaranteed to live until retirement and intend to live after.
            My stepfather, the head of the clan91, and I want so much
            1. VLR
              27 June 2022 13: 11
              +7
              Yes, many majors drive themselves into a coffin, but it is not they who are to blame if they watch TV, but only doctors, who for some reason turned out to be neither magicians nor miracle workers. Vaughn Maradona - "sitting on cocaine" since 1982, there was cardiopathy and the heart was 2 times larger than normal, cirrhosis of the liver, cerebral hemorrhage shortly before death. And when he nevertheless died in November 2020, unexpectedly, the doctors were to blame. As reported on June 23, 8 people are now going to be tried on charges of "unintentional murder."
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 27 June 2022 11: 16
          +4
          : At 7-8 years old, do you willingly read Leo Tolstoy or Anderson?


          At that age, I read Rafael Sabatini's Odyssey of Captain Blood, and after this book I abandoned children's literature altogether. Mom was very unhappy. smile
          1. lisikat2
            lisikat2 27 June 2022 13: 21
            +1
            "Mom was very unhappy" you know, in some ways the age limit for 21 is already outdated, but in 8 "Captain Blood" is a little premature. Friends had a case: a father with a 9-year-old daughter watched a video. Even I, my husband and I are not playing patty, blushed.
            In cinema and literature, certain age limits must be observed.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 June 2022 14: 19
              +4
              Friends had a case: a father with a 9-year-old daughter watched a video.

              Well, you have to think about what you show the child. I myself began to read "Blood" to my son at the same age as myself, he "moved in" immediately and read further on his own, and then climbed into my library and began to look through all the books about ships, and then we began to glue models sailboats, then tanks. From this book, it turned out to be much more sense than Carlson, especially since there was nowhere to take a propeller with a motor. smile
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 27 June 2022 14: 49
                +3
                Quote: Sea Cat
                much more than chess from Carlson,

                Here. It is here that Nikolai will be against! He swung at the sacred. Oooh! bully
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 27 June 2022 15: 20
                  +5
                  He himself just said about Carlson, I would not have remembered. laughing
              2. lisikat2
                lisikat2 28 June 2022 08: 00
                +1
                The propeller can be made, and the motor can be ordered on the Internet
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 June 2022 15: 16
                  +1
                  Kate, hi at that time there was no Internet, at least in the Union, so the idea is good, but in the eighties it was completely unfeasible. request
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 27 June 2022 14: 58
              +3
              Quote from lisikat2
              but in 8 "Captain Blood"

              No, Katya. I don’t agree. Blood also “passed” for me at the age of 9.
              Quote from lisikat2
              Friends had a case: a father with a 9-year-old daughter watched a video. Even I, my husband and I are not playing patty, blushed.

              Well ... the question, of course, is specifically for "dad".
              Quote from lisikat2
              In cinema and literature, certain age limits must be observed.

              So after all, they were and are. The rest is from the evil one. bully
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 27 June 2022 15: 30
            +3
            At 9 I read: How steel was tempered "and later: Korneshov:" Hunting for a turtledove. Therefore, many of the children's books, "ran" past
        3. Phil77
          Phil77 27 June 2022 13: 10
          +3
          Quote from lisikat2
          read Leo Tolstoy

          Katya!
          Sorry, but ... I'm ignorant! I tried to read our Leo Tolstoy several times, but? Alas, to me, a sinful one! I'll burn with shame. repeat
          1. lisikat2
            lisikat2 28 June 2022 08: 13
            +1
            To be honest, I know "War and Peace" within the framework of the school. Another thing: "Sunday" And "Crime and Punishment" read and reread them, but selectively
      3. astra wild2
        astra wild2 27 June 2022 11: 42
        0
        "very bright" is noticeable by you, how you speak of Putin. I have said many times that if the opportunity presented itself. I would gladly slap the face, but in fairness, he is smarter and compared to Yeltsin, he did a lot of good
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 27 June 2022 12: 17
          +3
          Quote: Astra wild2
          bright "it is noticeable by you how you speak of Putin.

          And what's wrong? Yes. I'm very critical of this person.
          Quote: Astra wild2
          I would gladly slap

          Who? laughing
          Quote: Astra wild2
          compared to Yeltsin, he did a lot of good

          But here one can even argue very much. But is it necessary to do this? This does not apply to the subject of the article. bully
          Your beliefs are your beliefs. And also: bewilderment, glorification, indignation and other emotions.
          1. kor1vet1974
            kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 12: 37
            +2
            It has nothing to do with the topic of the article.
            Not long here, but I already noticed that sometimes many comments on the subject of the article, well, they don’t relate in any way ... hi
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 27 June 2022 12: 43
              +6
              For the "Sect of Shpakovsky's Witnesses" this is normal.)))
              1. kor1vet1974
                kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 13: 17
                +4
                For the "Sect of Witnesses Shpakovsky" this is normal
                ..As they say: "I don't know the criminal Funtik" (c) .. smile
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 27 June 2022 13: 22
                  +4
                  It's too late to rush about, you already hit it!)))
                  1. kor1vet1974
                    kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 13: 53
                    +3
                    Into a sect?... Bliiiiiiiin and they counted me ... "Mom, they count me here (c)" laughing
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 27 June 2022 13: 25
                  +4
                  Quote: kor1vet1974
                  As they say: "I don't know the criminal Funtik" (c) ..

                  Well, do not be upset. Our people are good. Correct people. You will definitely not be bored. laughing hi
                  1. kor1vet1974
                    kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 13: 54
                    +5
                    Well, don't be upset.
                    To the next world, I'm not in a hurry ... laughing
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 27 June 2022 14: 51
                      +4
                      Quote: kor1vet1974
                      To the next world, I'm not in a hurry ...

                      So after all? Is there a place to be an invitation? bully
                  2. kor1vet1974
                    kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 14: 09
                    +4
                    Yes, I wanted to clarify, the bullets of these machine guns explode in the head?
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 27 June 2022 16: 44
                      +3
                      Unfortunately no. smile But the head shatters into pieces without it, because the caliber is good - .045 (11,43mm). Disc magazine capacity 50 rounds. Enough for the eyes. The designer of this submachine gun, General John Tagliaffero Thompson, tried very hard and he succeeded.
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 27 June 2022 16: 37
                +3
                As for any neophyte trilobite! laughing drinks
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 27 June 2022 12: 44
              +3
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              they don't relate...

              And this happens. But you understand the heading "history" differs for the better from others by some kind of free-thinking and originality, in a good way. The herd instinct does not work here. Everyone has the right to their opinion. hi fellow
              1. kor1vet1974
                kor1vet1974 27 June 2022 13: 16
                +2
                Everyone has the right to their opinion. Sometimes controversial, but?
                Yes, I read about slaps in the face ... laughing
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 27 June 2022 14: 54
                  +2
                  Quote: kor1vet1974
                  about slaps...

                  Vera is a girl with a temperament. As you know, there were girls with a guitar, without an address, in jazz, too. And here she is, with a temperament. lol
          2. astra wild2
            astra wild2 28 June 2022 06: 15
            +5
            "I even argue" for me: Yeltsin is an eternal disgrace
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 28 June 2022 06: 17
              0
              Quote: Astra wild2
              Yeltsin is an eternal disgrace

              You have every right to have your own opinion. Or not. bully
              1. astra wild2
                astra wild2 28 June 2022 06: 20
                +1
                Do you like him? Conducting alone is worth it
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 28 June 2022 06: 27
                  0
                  Quote: Astra wild2
                  you like him

                  I didn't say anything of the sort.
                  Quote: Astra wild2
                  Conducting alone is worth it

                  If this is his biggest drawback, then? Someone advertises pizza, someone puts his friends to "feed". laughing
                  Do you think that power can be good for everyone? You know, there are acquaintances who "rose" in business under Yeltsin, but had to leave under Putin and his "comrades". For obvious reasons. These people love monopoly. But there are no competitors.
  9. lisikat2
    lisikat2 27 June 2022 11: 18
    +2
    All good health. Yesterday there was nothing interesting on the site and I was sitting on YouTube, and in the morning I did not have time to charge up to 100%. You have to use it sparingly. I have a lovely phone, but there is no "fast charge" function
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 27 June 2022 13: 27
      +2
      Quote from lisikat2
      phone charm

      Thank God that you, Katya, do not have a "flying tablet"! laughing
  10. Carlos Hall
    Carlos Hall 27 June 2022 17: 09
    +3
    The Dutch, like the Catalans, are a people without honor, a people of merchants. They are not gentlemen, they are not soldiers, they are shopkeepers.
  11. Molot1979
    Molot1979 27 June 2022 17: 43
    +3
    You can, of course, call alcabala Alba's mistake. But a mercenary army is an extremely expensive toy. You may not have to pay this bondage. But then "Spanish fury" comes to replace it. And what is worse in the end? Surely the duke understood that his decision was not popular. But what choice did he have? Either collect a military tax, whatever you call it, or disband the army, but he has a war here, if anything, or wait indifferently for the mercenaries themselves to take what is due to them from the population.
  12. faterdom
    faterdom 27 June 2022 22: 15
    0
    Who knows, Alba would not have been recalled, how it would have turned there with the Benelux ....
    But he ended his life as viceroy, what higher position could he have in the kingdom? So, the fall did take place, but, in general, a successful career, as far as it was possible at that time.
  13. balabol
    balabol 27 June 2022 23: 42
    +3
    "The fact is that mediation was widespread in this province, and on the way from the producer to the consumer, goods sometimes passed through seven hands. Thus, in fact, this tax was not 10, but up to 70% of the cost of each product."
    Unconvincing assertion.
    1. In a small country where everyone knows each other and knows how to count money, multiple mediation, how the system could not exist. The fact is that it was in the Netherlands that a new industrial structure was formed - the operational division of the production process and the specialization of individual participants in the process in their field. Therefore, for example, in the process of making cloth, wool goes to one for cleaning, then spinning, then weaving, dyeing. And so on from one to the next. Logistics and production chains with clear rules and laws. The idle intermediaries would be thrown out of business, but the participants in the production could not.
    2. The percentage is incorrectly calculated. The compound interest was considered to be 1,1 * 1,1 * 1,1, etc. = 1,948, and this is without the margin of each participant. In short, a disaster.
  14. Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 28 June 2022 10: 33
    +3
    Recently I read in the media for the modern heiress of the Alba clan, Cayetana, in my opinion. Died in 2014 Long list of titles, socialite, etc.
  15. Chief Officer Lom
    Chief Officer Lom 27 July 2022 21: 48
    0
    As a child, I myself read Captain Blood, Fair Margaret, etc. What formed the opinion - what kind of Spaniards of those times were cruel scoundrels who oppressed all the freedom-loving inhabitants of Europe. And only at a more mature age did I notice that most of the authors who painted the bestial Spaniards were English. In terms of the intensity of pouring shit on the Spaniards, they were probably surpassed only by the Belgian in The Legend of Til Ulenspiegel. In general, such a reputation of the Spaniards, in my opinion, arose as a result of the predominance of English-language adventure literature in our country, in which often noble (?!) English pirates bravely robbed Spanish ships, by definition, the enemies of the entire "free world" (does it remind you of anything? : ) ) As a result, in South America, left behind by the Spaniards, the Indian population still makes up the real percentage of the population (in Bolivia, for example, as much as more than 80%), and in North America, occupied by the noble Anglo-Saxons, 1,5%, and this is still unexpectedly much, according to You can't say that to US staff. This is because the Indian population in the United States is still driven into reservations, where they live like homeless people on garbage, infertile land without work and education. Ceremonial shots of rich happy Indians - owners of casinos - a smokescreen behind which the problem of the rest is hidden, which, as it were, does not exist. "By their deeds you shall know them." By the Indian population of South and North America, one can realize, pushing aside the propaganda husk of literature, who in those cruel times were the most notorious murderers and scoundrels. And rereading "The Legend of Thiel" by the Belgian writer Charles De Coster, one should remember the Belgian Congo and the behavior of the Dutch West India Company in Africa and America.