Pistols Roth and Krnk: models 1900 and 1907

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Pistols Roth and Krnk: models 1900 and 1907
The barrel of the pistol "Rot-Sauer" M1900 "Galantika" (such was his commercial name) with the brand of Georg Roth. Photo: forgottenweapons.com

“Petro, let’s trade for your Sauer,” I suggested.
- Invented! Maremukha started up at once. “I wouldn’t trade a gun for anything. I need him myself.
“Need, need!” I mimicked Maremukha. “It will still be taken from you.
- Who will take it? Maremukha was alarmed.
Who knows: the police.
Who needs him? He's rusty.
- Well, what is it? Does not matter weapon.

"Old Fortress" V. Belyaev

Weapon stories. Cooperation between the well-known owner of two cartridge factories in Vienna and Pressburg (now Bratislava) Georg Roth and weapons designer Karel Krnk soon bore fruit. Having become the manager of one of Roth's enterprises in 1898, Karel Krnka already in 1900 co-authored a new pistol with him. It is difficult to say, of course, what part of the work on its creation each of them invested. Most likely, Krnka was still the “chief mechanic”, but Roth supplied cartridges to his partner, and it is clear that in abundance, offered ideas and provided the designer with the production capacities of his enterprise.

“The ideas are yours, but the cartridges are mine!”



The bolt frame of the same pistol with the stamp of the Sauer and Son company - a naked man with a club in an oval. Photo: forgottenweapons.com

The pistol was distinguished by complex automation and was made in the style of the 1895 model of the year. It also used a long-stroke barrel, albeit a fairly low-powered 7,65 mm Rota cartridge. By combining both of them, a weapon came out that was overcomplicated and quite expensive, but “weak”. The pistol was tested in Switzerland and Austria, but was not adopted by the army. However, he still hit the arms market. Under the designation "Rot-Krnka" arr. In 1900, the German company Sauer began to produce it in small batches. So he became known to many also as a Rot-Sauer pistol. Then, licenses for the production of all Rota-Krnka pistols began to be sold to other arms firms right and left, which was due to the fact that Roth himself did not even get involved in the production of pistols. Apparently, he had enough of his cartridge factories. This pistol was also used during the First World War - in the Austro-Hungarian army, but in an unofficial way.



TTX pistol "Rot-Sauer" М1900
Caliber: 7,65x13 mm
Length: 170 mm
Barrel length: 100 mm
Weight unloaded: 0,655 kg
Store: 7 rounds

"Cool boss and his talented patron"



Here he was - the M1900 pistol. Right view. Photo littlegun.be

At the same time, Roth established his cooperation with the weapons company in Steyr, where in 1904 another pistol of Karel Krnk and Georg Roth "Rot-Steyr" appeared. It was improved for three whole years, until, finally, the M1907 model was adopted by the cavalry of the Austro-Hungarian army. For some reason, the designer for this weapon took an atypical "too simple" scheme with a short barrel stroke. The store, compared to the pistol of 1904, was enlarged, but the caliber remained the same. True, now it used a new original ammunition: the 8 mm Rota flangeless cartridge.


The same pistol. View from the left. On the handle, again, the company logo. Photo littlegun.be

Unlike the 1900 model of the year, the Rot-Steyr pistol mod. 1907 never entered the commercial market - it was a purely military weapon. Production was completed around 1914, with about 1908 made in Steyr between 1913 and 50. In Budapest, their release was carried out for the Hungarian Honved (part of the Austro-Hungarian army), and in 000-1911. about 1914 of them were made there. Some of these pistols were already produced during the war, since the war required a lot of weapons. So in total, it is believed that more than 30 of them were made. But the most interesting thing happened to this pistol after the war. The Austro-Hungarian monarchy collapsed, and a trophy batch of pistols arr. 000. They went to Italy and were used there throughout the Second World War.


The same gun. View of the oval clip holder. Photo littlegun.be

First joint


Now let's get acquainted with this original weapon in more detail. The Rot-Sauer pistol, as already noted, had automatics that used the recoil energy of the bolt and barrel, linked together, with the latter's long stroke. In this case, the locking and unlocking of the shutter occurred due to its rotation. As for the trunk, it had two pairs of protrusions. With the help of one, it is fixed inside the receiver, while the other pair helps it to engage with the bolt. The trigger on the pistol is open.


"Roth-Sauer" M1907. View from the left. Pay attention to the thin handle, generally characteristic of clip-fed pistols. It was convenient to hold it in your hand, and therefore shoot accurately from it. Photo littlegun.be

Such a system operates traditionally: moving back immediately after the shot, the bolt, together with the barrel, fell into the helical groove with its protrusion and rotated 20 °. The bolt and barrel were disengaged, and the bolt was locked in the rearmost position. The barrel, now held only by its own return spring, returned back due to it. In this case, the spent cartridge case was extracted. In the middle position, the barrel had to “run into” a special lever that served to unlock the bolt. Now he, too, moved forward after the barrel, sent a new cartridge into the chamber from the magazine, turned in the opposite direction, while locking the bore, and, already being linked to the barrel, moved forward with it until it stops. The pistol had a striker-type trigger with the possibility of self-cocking.


"Roth-Sauer" M1907. Right view. Photo littlegun.be

The pistol safety is quite original. This is the clutch at the back of the bolt. If it is rotated around its axis, then the shutter locks. It cannot be moved, and since it cannot be moved, it is impossible to shoot!

The magazine on the pistol was provided with a box-shaped, permanent, with a capacity of seven rounds and was located in the handle. It was possible to equip it with the help of a clip with the shutter open.

Short stroke, rotating barrel...


In the Rot-Steyr M1907 pistol, the automation had a short barrel stroke. In this case, the barrel was inside a tubular casing that covered the return spring. The shutter looked like a cylinder, hollow in front (it covered the breech breech) and massive in the back. Like the previous sample, the barrel of this pistol had one pair of protrusions in front, with which it slid along the spiral grooves made on the muzzle casing, and a pair at the back, with which it engaged with the corresponding grooves on the bolt.


"Rot-Steyr" M1907 with a holster. Photo littlegun.be

After the shot, the barrel, together with the bolt, moved back to a distance of about 12 mm. The barrel, moving with its protrusions along the spiral grooves on the casing, while turning 90 ° around its axis. At the same time, it disengaged from the shutter and, after that, it stopped. The shutter continued to move back by inertia, removed the spent cartridge case, picked up the top one from the magazine and returned back, that is, forward, and sent the cartridge into the chamber. At the same time, he also shook the trunk “waiting” for him from a place, and then they moved on together. At the same time, the barrel turned again and firmly engaged with the bolt.

TTX pistol "Rot-Steyr" М1907
Caliber: 8x13 mm (Georg Roth cartridge)
Length: 243 mm
Barrel length: 126 mm
Weight unloaded: 1,004 kg
Store: 10 rounds

The descent of the pistol was heavy, but it was done that way on purpose. Moreover, when the shutter went forward, its drummer remained in place, held by a sear. Pulling the trigger itself did not immediately fire the shot, but first pulled the drummer back. In this case, the mainspring was compressed and acted on the sear until the trigger was fully depressed. It was then that only a whisper released the drummer for a shot.


Officers of the army of Austria-Hungary with pistols "Rot-Steyr" М1907 in holsters

Protection against accidental shot


Such a device was supposed to prevent accidental shots that could be caused by shaking and jerking during the jump. But there are simply no manual safety locks on this pistol. They just didn’t have them on most revolvers, but they were also intended for cavalry. The capacity of a single-row magazine was ten rounds. Loading the pistol still remained obojmennoy.


Holster for the pistol "Rot-Steyr" M1907 with a pocket for a spare clip. Photo littlegun.be

The store had to be equipped with the shutter open through a special window made in the receiver. A clip full of cartridges was inserted into the grooves of this window, and the cartridges were squeezed out of it downwards with a finger into the magazine. Then the clip had to be pulled out and the bolt closed. At the same time, he automatically sent the first cartridge into the chamber. The magazine could be unloaded by pressing the bolt lock button on the left side of the pistol frame. At the same time, the cartridge movement limiter in the store was turned off, and all cartridges were ejected by a spring through the same window in the receiver.


Poster dedicated to the Roth-Steyr model, 1907

The pistol as a whole proved to be quite good in a combat situation, but was too complicated to manufacture. In addition, the practice of their use has shown that clip-fed automatic pistols are a dead end branch of their development. Be that as it may, this pistol turned out to be the world's first example of such a weapon, adopted by such a massive army formation as the cavalry of the Austro-Hungarian monarchy.
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15 comments
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  1. +3
    2 July 2022 06: 51
    ,, Krnk rifle, 1869
    Caliber - 15,24 mm. Weight without bayonet 4,5 kg. Length without bayonet 1300 mm. Barrel length - 910 mm. Weight of powder charge - 4,99 g. Bullet weight - 35,52 g. Initial bullet speed - 305 m / s.
    The infantry regiments of the Russian army were armed with Krnk rifles. The troops stationed in central Russia used it until the Mosin Three-Line Rifle was adopted.
    1. +4
      2 July 2022 11: 59
      Quote: bubalik
      The troops stationed in central Russia used it until the Mosin Three-Line Rifle was adopted.

      Here it is not. In the 80s, everyone was re-equipped with Berdan No. 2. Separate units in Turkestan had them in service for some time (say, one of the battalions during the Khiva campaign), but then they were rearmed as well.
      1. +4
        2 July 2022 14: 09
        ,,, hi perhaps it was.
  2. +3
    2 July 2022 09: 49
    The cartridge is apparently still 8x19 Rot. And not 8x13 ... Otherwise, the sleeve is very short. laughing
    1. 0
      2 July 2022 19: 10
      No, still 8x13mm.

      The tactical capabilities of the pistol were determined by a weak cartridge (7,65x13 mm).
      Cartridge Specifications

      Chuck length 21,5 mm

      Bullet length 12 mm

      Bullet diameter 7,8 mm

      Bullet weight 4,7 g

      Charge weight 0,18g

      Muzzle velocity 320 m / s

      Energy 144 J
      1. 0
        2 July 2022 20: 13
        Quote: Sea Cat
        No, still 8x13mm

        The cartridge is called so - the diameter of the bullet x the length of the cartridge with a bullet!
        Example - 9x19 Pair, 9x18 Makarov. According to your scenario, cartridge 8x21 Rota.
        1. +1
          2 July 2022 21: 10
          I know how ammo is marked. And this alignment is not mine, but a guide to Austria-Hungary pistols. By the way, it is noted there that this cartridge was weaker than the 7,65 mm SR Browning cartridge (.32 ACP or 32 Auto).
          And for what weapon did you bring the cartridge
          cartridge 8x21 Rota.
          ?
          There is a cartridge Cartridge 8x19 Roth Steyr,
          1. 0
            2 July 2022 21: 40
            Quote: Sea Cat
            There is a cartridge Cartridge 8x19 Roth Steyr

            Here under it. Steyr 1907, some reference books give this particular cartridge. 8x19
        2. +2
          2 July 2022 22: 15
          The cartridge is marked as follows - the diameter of the bullet for the length of the sleeve.
          Example - 9x19 Pair, 9x18 Makarov, where the second number along the way indicates the length of the sleeve.
          According to your scenario, cartridge 8x21 Rota.

          Not in my opinion. Handbook of Small Arms of Austria-Hungary.
          And, if it doesn’t make it difficult, answer in which weapon the 8x21 Rota cartridge you designated was used.
          1. 0
            2 July 2022 23: 17
            I wrote. 8x19 Rota was used in the Steyr 1907 pistol. 8x21 - there is no such thing. That's my fault. Here in Steyr 1912 a powerful 9x23 cartridge was used ...
            But that's another story.
            1. +3
              3 July 2022 00: 12
              Here in Steyr 1912 a powerful 9x23 cartridge was used ...




              Cartridge 9×23 mm Steyr. The mass of the cartridge is 11 grams, the muzzle velocity is from 312 to 385 m/s, the muzzle energy of the bullet is from 383 to 526 J.

              Yes, the cartridge is very powerful, but that's really another story and another pistol.
              By the way, Steyr M1912 was filmed in the famous "Solaris" by Tarkovsky.

              Unfortunately, I couldn't find a better photo. request
  3. +4
    2 July 2022 16: 57
    Vyacheslav, thanks! smile Everything is interesting, as always. good

    I will add a little, only photographs.




    Portrait of Karel Krnk

    But no matter how I searched for the portrait of Georg Roth, I could not find it.
    1. 0
      3 July 2022 10: 36
      Is it when the shot was fired that the bolt came out at the back to such a length ???
      1. Quote: Crimea26
        Is it when the shot was fired that the bolt came out at the back to such a length ???
        Of course not:
        After the shot, the barrel, together with the bolt, moved back to a distance of about 12 mm.

        In the photo, the shutter is retracted to the extreme position for reloading.
      2. +2
        3 July 2022 18: 26
        So after all, for all blowback pistols, it moves back, to a greater or lesser extent. And when compared with other systems, the "Rot-Steyer" is not so "kicking" with the shutter.


        The exception is, perhaps, one R.08

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