"Iron Duke" Alba. The beginning of the battle

143
"Iron Duke" Alba. The beginning of the battle
Fernando Alvarez de Toledo, III Duque de Alba, por Antonio Moro

Fernando Alvarez de Toledo, better known as the "iron" or "great" Duke of Alba, was one of the most noble grandees of Spain. The list of his titles (besides the ducal one) is more than impressive: 4th Marquis of Coria, 3rd Count of Salvatierra de Tormes, 2nd Count of Piedrahita, 8th Lord of Valdecorne. The family motto is Deo patrum nostrorum ("To the God of our fathers"). From 1546 he also became Grand Master of the Order of the Golden Fleece. It was he who represented King Philip II at the engagement ceremonies with his third and fourth wives, Elizabeth of Valois and Anna of Austria. At the same time, Alba treated people who did not have a noble rank without prejudice, and most of the senior officers in his headquarters did not have the right to add the prefix “don” to their names.

He lived a fairly long life, fought a lot and successfully, entered the history as the first Spanish commander to appreciate the muskets, which required the installation of a fork-support. Less bulky arquebus still remained the most massive firearms weapons, however, the Duke of Alba gradually increased the number of his musketeers to 8 percent of the total number of soldiers. He was also a very capable organizer and administrator, which was especially evident in the development of the routes of the so-called "Spanish Road" - from Lombardy to the Netherlands. However, in the memory of the descendants, the Duke of Alba remained, first of all, as the "executioner of the Netherlands." It should be said that his opponents were also not angels, and with their senseless rigidity they were often not inferior to him. Admiral Willem de la Mark's sea geese turned out to be especially "frostbitten". But the roles in this historical drama are scheduled once and for all, and are unlikely to ever change.



The first years of the life of the hero of the article


Fernando (Hernan) Alvarez de Toledo was born in the Spanish province of Avila on October 29, 1507 and died in Lisbon in 1582. That is, the hero of our article was a contemporary of the Grand Duke of Moscow Vasily III, Ivan IV (the Terrible), Boris Godunov and Yermak. And also Magellan, Cortes, Pizarro, Henry VIII, Elizabeth Tudor, Mary Stuart, Henry of Navarre - the first Bourbon on the French throne, Suleiman the Magnificent, the first great Mogul Babur, Luther, Calvin, Michelangelo, Titian, Cellini, Giordano Bruno, Ariosto, Tasso , Lucrezia Borgia and Machiavelli. Metropolitan Philip (Kolychev) of Moscow and Anna Boleyn were born in the same year as him. And died in the same 1507, Gentile Bellini, Cesare Borgia and Jean Moline (French chronicler, composer, poet, who compiled the prose arrangement of the Romance of the Rose).

Father Fernando Alvarez died in 1510 on the island of Djerba during the war with the Moors. A three-year-old boy ended up in the house of his grandfather, Duke Fadrique Alba. The question of his future fate was already resolved at the age of 6, when his grandfather took him to his army, which was heading to the war in Navarre. The campaign ended with the conquest of this kingdom. Returning home, Fernando continued his studies, having received a good education and a strict Catholic upbringing. It is known that he was fluent in French, English and German, knew Latin. In 1524, the 17-year-old youth ended up in the army of Iñigo Fernandez de Velasco, who captured the Basque city of Fuenterrabia (at that time it belonged to France). It was Fernando, despite his youth, who was appointed military governor of this city. In 1525, we see him as a participant in the famous battle of Pavia, in which the French king Francis I was captured. Later, Francis will surprise the entire Christian world by entering into an alliance with Suleiman Kanuni (the Magnificent), and even provide Toulon for the winter fleet Ottoman Admiral Khair al-Din Barbarossa. And Charles V's ally would be Henry VIII of England.

In 1526, Fernando entered into a relationship with the daughter of a miller from the town of La Aldejuela, who in 1527 gave birth to a son from him, named the same as his father - Fernando. He will be recognized and make a good career, becoming a knight of the Order of Malta and the governor of Catalonia. In the same 1527, 20-year-old Fernando Alvarez married the daughter of the Count of Alba del Liste, Maria Enrique, who was his cousin. He lived with her for 54 years, his wife bore him 4 children.


Fernando Alvarez de Toledo, 3rd Duke of Alba and his wife María Enriquez de Toledo y Guzman

In 1531, his grandfather died, and Fernando Alvarez received the title of duke. He rarely saw his wife, since he took an active part in all the wars waged by Charles V and his son Philip II. At the age of 25, he already became a general, at the age of 30 he was first appointed commander of the army.

In 1532, the young duke participated in the campaign of Charles V to Vienna, which was ruled by another Habsburg, the emperor's brother Ferdinand. However, the Spanish army managed to approach only in September, while the Ottomans, who had stood all August at the small fortress of Guns, before reaching Vienna, left Hungary.

Duke of Alba vs Khair ad Din Barbarossa


Meanwhile, in the Mediterranean, the name of the famous Maghreb pirate Khair ad-Din Barbarossa, who had transferred to the Ottoman service, was heard louder and louder. He had already captured the Spanish fortress on Peñon Island, which blocked the harbor of Algiers, and then defeated the late Spanish squadron, capturing about 2500 sailors and soldiers. In 1531 he defeated the fleet of the Hospitallers and devastated the coasts of Spain, Calabria and Apulia. In 1533, 60 ships of Barbarossa ravaged the Calabrian cities of Reggio and Fondi. Finally, in August 1534, his squadron, supported by the Janissaries, captured Tunisia, which threatened Sicily, which was owned by Charles V. At the expense of funds brought from Peru by Hernan Pizarro (half-brother of the famous Francisco), a campaign against Tunisia was organized. The allies of the Spaniards were the Hospitallers, who recently (in 1530) received from Charles V the islands of Malta, Gozo, Camino, as well as the African city of Tripoli, the Genoese and the Portuguese. The Duke of Alba also participated in this campaign. The decisive role was then played by the world's largest and most powerful galleon "Sao João Baptista" (São João Baptista, "Saint John the Baptist"), which broke the chains that closed the entrance to the harbor of Goletta (port of the city of Tunisia). This ship, also known by the nickname "Botafogo" ("Incendiary"), was commanded by Prince Luis - whose illegitimate son, many years later, would become a rival of Charles V's heir, Philip, in the struggle for the Portuguese throne.


Franz Hogenberg. Attack on Goletta. Galleon "San Juan Baptista" - bottom left

In July 1535, Tunisia was captured, but Barbarossa managed to escape to Algeria and then hit Minorca, capturing a Portuguese galleon that had returned from America, and 6 prisoners. After that, Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent appointed him the "Emir of the Emirs" of Africa and the commander-in-chief of the imperial fleet.


Hyr ad Din Barbarossa

On September 28, 1538, at the Battle of Prevese, Barbarossa defeated the fleet of the Holy League, assembled by Pope Paul III. He then had 122 ships against 156 enemy warships (36 Papal, 61 Genoese, 50 Portuguese and 10 Maltese). Barbarossa's fleet sank 3 enemy ships, burned 10 and captured 36.


Umed Behzad. Battle of Preveza. Maritime Museum, Istanbul

For three years there was no force in the Mediterranean that could challenge this Ottoman admiral. Finally, in 1541, Charles V managed to assemble a new fleet of 500 ships. The Duke of Alba was appointed to command them. The famous Genoese admiral Andrea Doria and Hernan Cortes, who returned from Mexico in 1540, also went on a campaign. Charles V was so confident in the success of this expedition that he invited many wives of the Spanish grandees to take part in it, promising these ladies "a beautiful sight."

Barbarossa was not in Algeria then, and the city was defended by the eunuch Hassan, a native of Sardinia, captured by the Maghreb pirates as a child. Barbarossa made him his assistant and did not fail: Hassan rose to the rank of admiral, became the third beylerbey of Algeria and devastated the coasts of Italy and Spain more than once. His successor in 1544 was Hadji Pasha, the son of Barbarossa.

The Spaniards were let down by the elements. Cardinal Talavera reports that on October 23, when the landing troops had just finished landing near Algiers,

"Such a storm arose that it was not only impossible to unload the guns, but many small ships just capsized, thirteen or fourteen galleons too."

This storm did not subside for 4 days, more than 150 ships were lost, about 12 thousand soldiers and sailors died. Cortes suggested that Charles V storm Algiers, regardless of the circumstances, but he completely lost heart and ordered a retreat. The emperor was so shocked that, before going out to sea, he is said to have thrown his crown into the water, saying:

"Goodbye, trinket. Let the one who is more fortunate carry you.


Portrait of Charles V by Titian

On the remaining ships, the Spaniards barely managed to get to Mallorca.

After 47 years, the tragedy of the Spanish fleet will be repeated when the famous Invincible Armada leaves the coast of England. And the great confrontation in the Mediterranean will continue for several hundred more years. Millions of Europeans will be sold in slave markets until France conquers Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco in the middle of the XNUMXth century. Only then will the inhabitants of the coasts breathe calmly, and Christian ships will stop disappearing without a trace. The French will try to create a piece of Europe in North Africa, and they will even succeed. However, everything will end with the appearance of the Maghreb in France itself.

But let us return to Spain of the 1541th century. The failure in Algiers did not affect the career of Duke Fernando Alvarez de Toledo, who in 1542 was appointed mayor (supreme steward) of the King of Spain. In XNUMX, the duke's detachment released Perpignan, besieged by the troops of the French dauphin Henry. After that, he was appointed military adviser to the heir to Charles V - Philip.

First Catholic-Protestant War


On October 18, 1517, Martin Luther published his famous "Theses" (in the amount of 95 pieces). And after 29 years, the first big war between Catholics and Protestants began. Back in February 1531, the defensive Schmalkaldic League was created in the Lutheran lands of Germany, which included eight princes and eleven cities. It was understood here that the Catholic Charles V, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, would sooner or later try to return them to the fold of the Roman Church. And so it happened: having concluded a peace treaty with France and a truce with the Ottoman Empire, Charles V in 1546 began the so-called Schmalkaldic War. The Duke of Alba was appointed commander of the army, whose troops included heavy cavalry from Naples, Spanish landsknechts, Hungarian hussars and a detachment of condottiere Gian Giacomo Medici. The decisive battle was at Muhlberg on April 24, 1547. Mass was being celebrated in the Lutheran camp when the troops of Alba, having crossed the Elbe, attacked the enemy. The victory was complete and unconditional. The military leader of the League, Elector Johann Friedrich I of Saxony was captured and sentenced to death. Assessing the outcome of the battle, Charles V said:

"Vine, vi y venció Dios!"
(“I came, I saw, and God won!”)


Titian. "Charles V at the Battle of Mühlberg". Prado Museum, Madrid

However, this was only the first and not too significant episode of the many years of bloody confrontation between Catholics and Protestants.

From 1548, Charles V began to think about the possibility of transferring power to his son Philip. The Duke of Alba was appointed mayor of the heir apparent. He accompanied him to England, where Philip married Mary Tudor on July 25, 1554.

In the meantime, Alba managed to take part in the unsuccessful siege of the city of Metz: the Spanish troops were led by Charles V himself, the French garrison was led by Duke Francois de Guise.


Lucien-Etienne Meling. Army of Charles V at Metz

The most curious thing is that all this happened in the north-east of France (in Lorraine) as part of either the Eighth, or even the Tenth (according to various authors) Italian War. These wars were fought by Spain, France, the Holy Roman Empire, and other states (including Turkey) from 1494 to 1559.

Duke of Alba in Italy


After the withdrawal from Metz, the Duke of Alba was sent to command the Spanish forces in Italy. And Prince Philip in 1554 became king of Naples and Sicily. In 1556, Charles V abdicated and soon died after catching a cold while rehearsing for his funeral. Philip became the king of Spain, the duke of the Netherlands, the ruler of a number of European principalities and overseas possessions of Spain.


Alonso Sanchez Coelho. Portrait of Philip II with a rosary


Spanish possessions in Europe

Duke of Alba Philip II appointed Viceroy of Naples. He moved to this city from Milan, where from 1555 he served as governor. And immediately a new war began, in which the French troops of Henry II and the army of the papal region opposed him (Paul IV was then the Roman pontiff).

Alba borrowed 430 ducats from the Polish Queen Bona Sforza (they were never returned to the Poles later) and formed a 12-strong army, which he led to Rome. Dad tried to play for time, hoping for the help of Francois Guise, whom we knew. However, this time, another duke was more successful - Alba, who defeated the French at the Battle of San Quentin (August 10, 1557). Having then defeated the papal army, in September 1557 he entered Rome, where Paul IV was forced to sign a peace treaty beneficial to Spain.

In April 1559, the Cato-Cambresian Treaty was also concluded, which put an end to these Italian wars, which bothered everyone (including history students).


Signing of the Cato-Cambresi peace treaty between Spain and France treaty

On the Spanish side, it was also signed by the Duke of Alba. This peace treaty was sealed by the marriage of the widowed Philip II for the second time and the daughter of Henry II Isabella of Valois, the wedding took place in Paris. Later, after the assassination of the childless Henry III, Philip II will try to declare his daughter from Elizabeth Isabella queen of France. As a result, the famous Henry IV will become the king, who will realize in time that “Paris is worth Mass».


"Once upon a time there was Henry IV, he was a glorious king." Engraving de Henri Goltzius, 1592

Despite the closeness of the duke to Philip II and great services to him and Spain, in 1566 his son, Fadrique Alvarez de Toledo and Enriques de Guzman, was arrested. The reason for the royal anger was the violation of the promise to marry Magdalena de Guzman, the court lady of Queen Anne of Austria.


Fadrique Alvarez de Toledo

At first, Fadrique was imprisoned in the castle of La Mota (province of Valladolid), but in 1557 he was released and sent to serve in the Algerian fortress of Oran for three years.

Meanwhile, in 1566, the "Iconoclastic Revolt" began in the Netherlands, which became the prologue to the Eighty Years' War. The duke was instructed to suppress the rebellion and replace the king's sister, Margarita of Parma (illegitimate daughter of Charles V), as governor of this province. By order of Philip II in 1568, his son Fadrike joined him, who later led the troops that captured Mechelen, Zutphen, Naarden and besieged Alkmaar and Haarlem. Sending the duke to the Netherlands, Philip II ordered him to "decapitate" the rebels - to capture the most prominent and wealthy citizens of the province, whose property was subject to confiscation. Alba, on the other hand, was an impeccable performer who literally and without hesitation carried out the orders of both Charles V and his son. Thus, he was simply doomed to become an anti-hero of that war, taking on those streams of dirt that were actually intended for Philip II. And the appointment of Alba to the post of governor of the Netherlands was Philip's mistake - precisely because the duke followed his instructions too literally. Being a good commander, a good organizer and administrator, he turned out to be a useless politician.

We will talk about the brutal and bloody war in the Netherlands in the next article.
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143 comments
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  1. +13
    20 June 2022 06: 14
    Chic article good An interesting time period, such a huge number of events in a short time ... wars, the discovery of new lands, the strengthening and withering of states, and what people !!! Such a huge number of historical characters fellow from Cortes to Barbarossa!
    Many thanks to Ryzhov Valery, we look forward to continuing!
    1. +7
      20 June 2022 07: 58
      And what characters. One Barbarossa is worth something. You can write hundreds of novels about that era .. Probably no one counted how many novels about the Barbarossa era were written
      1. +4
        20 June 2022 10: 47
        Quote from lisikat2
        And what characters. One Barbarossa is worth something. You can write hundreds of novels about that era ..

        And hundreds of films to shoot historical ...
        And then there is nothing to see.
        1. +5
          20 June 2022 10: 55
          By the way, the Spaniards shoot very good historical series.
        2. +2
          20 June 2022 11: 07
          "There is nothing to see" Youtube has a lot of historical films. Another thing is that according to Barbarossa, perhaps a little
          1. 0
            25 June 2022 07: 40
            And the quality of these historical films? If you can advise sensible, I will only be grateful.
    2. +3
      20 June 2022 21: 53
      Totally agree! good

      . The decisive role was then played by the largest and most powerful galleon in the world "San João Baptista" (São João Baptista, "Saint John the Baptist"),




  2. +8
    20 June 2022 06: 14
    Alba borrowed 430 thousand ducats from the Polish Queen Bona Sforza (they were never returned to the Poles later)
    I knew who to borrow from ... I understood that sanctions would not be announced, they would not be brought to court smile
    1. +3
      20 June 2022 07: 43
      Aleksey is a "sailboat", by the way, today's Poland is no match for Poland of that time. Stefan Batory, though later, saved Vienna and taught the Turks a good lesson
      1. +4
        20 June 2022 16: 30
        Stefan Batory, though later, saved Vienna and taught the Turks a good lesson
        ...And money? Money never returned. smile
      2. +4
        20 June 2022 16: 45
        Stefan Batory, though later, saved Vienna and taught the Turks a good lesson

        Stefan Batory fought with the Russians, and Jan Sobieski saved Vienna, even captured the green banner of Islam, for which the vizier was impaled. But there is a nuance, Sobieski and his hussars were not allowed into Vienna for the parade of allied troops drinks
        1. +1
          22 June 2022 06: 08
          Messed up the kings. There are so many and I'm confused
          1. 0
            22 June 2022 06: 14
            And also elective hi
            1. +1
              25 June 2022 16: 05
              Not perfect kings
      3. -1
        20 June 2022 16: 48
        Quote from lisikat2
        Stefan Batory, though later, saved Vienna and taught the Turks a good lesson

        Vienna was saved by Jan Sobieski
      4. 0
        25 June 2022 07: 41
        Jan Sobessky saved Vienna, and Batory besieged Pskov, in which our ancestors brought cannons in advance.
  3. +7
    20 June 2022 06: 32
    Sending the duke to the Netherlands, Philip II ordered him to "decapitate" the rebels - to capture the most prominent and wealthy citizens of the province, whose property was subject to confiscation.

    Which of the kings, kings, sultans, shahs and other rulers who lived in that era would have acted differently?
    1. +3
      20 June 2022 07: 11
      It was a bloody era.
      1. +6
        20 June 2022 08: 01
        "We are not like that - Life is like that..."
        Universal answer for excuses!
        1. +1
          20 June 2022 13: 49
          Here - here is the "iron excuse
    2. 0
      25 June 2022 07: 43
      The same question, and the historical tradition is love for Protestants, but why are they better than Catholics?
      1. 0
        25 June 2022 11: 05
        In religious disputes is not strong!
        Why is a Buddhist better than a Christian? Or is a Shintoist worse than a Muslim?
        Let's not "push water in a mortar" ...
  4. +10
    20 June 2022 07: 26
    from the paradoxical.
    Charles V abdicated in 1556 and soon died after catching a cold during his funeral rehearsal.

    It happens! wassat )))
    1. +8
      20 June 2022 08: 02
      No wonder I rehearsed! crying
      1. +3
        20 June 2022 09: 23
        And if I hadn’t rehearsed and hadn’t caught a cold, and if I hadn’t caught a cold ....
        This is where religious superstition begins.
        I know a little about this topic, and therefore I will not expand on this topic.
        From the point of view of medicine, what can be assumed: 1) then there was a seasonal epidemic of acute respiratory viral infections.
        2) Karl had a weakened immune system, and in this case it would be more correct to say: he died as a result of complications .... a list of complications caused by a cold
        1. +2
          20 June 2022 09: 50
          Item 2) Carl had a weak immune system...
          Or they could "heal" a cold monarch ...
          George Washington was treated for a cold with bloodletting and mercuric chloride. They treated him to pneumonia and George naturally died ...
          1. +3
            20 June 2022 10: 53
            Faith is really pulled from the then "medicine". She forgets that then savagery and cruelty were commonplace.
            I myself "turns out" from those mores, but then somehow there was more decency. The most paradoxical thing that then coexisted: nobility, extreme cruelty, religiosity and complete disregard for holiness. The Spaniards and Italians were Catholics, but the Spaniards were not stopped from violence in the Italian church, but the Italian from robbing the Spanish monastery
            1. +2
              20 June 2022 11: 21
              Robber of Faenza and butcher of Cesena
              warspot.ru
              In this article, read about the actions of the condottieri hired by Pope Gregory XI!!!
              If the Pope allowed such actions to the people he hired, then what to expect from ordinary European monarchs. And even more so from ordinary soldiers - centralized supply was not invented then. The pay was delayed. So the "soldiers" looted - life is one and that is short. And you want to eat freely and drink sweetly even in our time!
              1. +2
                20 June 2022 14: 22
                What I'm talking about: everything is paradoxical


                What I'm talking about: the most incompatible phenomena coexisted.
                I know the store, they live there: 2 cats and a mongrel. It's great to exist like that.
                When the cashier leaves the cash register, a Persian cat and a dog are stacked on the cash register, Somewhere nearby
      2. +5
        20 June 2022 10: 57
        No wonder I rehearsed!
        I remembered death, I wanted to see from the outside how it would look. smile
    2. +7
      20 June 2022 08: 09
      Just a quick implementation of the plan.
      1. +4
        20 June 2022 08: 22
        Suicidal mood?
        Not surprising. How did the economy hold up in general? They all continuously genocide each other there + Suleiman the Magnificent with his Barbarossa ...
        And they were collecting taxes.
        Or maybe loans "gathered"? Or the gold of the colonies?
        In general, tension in a small area of ​​Western Europe.
        1. +6
          20 June 2022 08: 40
          On top, as usual, enough. And the rest - somehow. However, humans are living beings.
          1. +3
            20 June 2022 10: 07
            people are living beings


            And this is according to the circumstances.

            This storm did not subside for 4 days, more than 150 ships were lost, about 12 thousand soldiers and sailors died.


            In all cases, you can’t stock up on skills and lifebuoys.
            1. +2
              20 June 2022 18: 10
              “Is it possible to know about God's planid when each person has his own planid?” (With).
              1. +2
                20 June 2022 18: 51
                each person has his own planid

                12 thousand people had one.
                Apparently, there has always been a shortage of good planids. And the sailors - so especially.
                1. +2
                  20 June 2022 19: 48
                  Man with man will always get along. Not always successful.
                  1. +1
                    20 June 2022 20: 10
                    Man with man will always get along. Not always successful.

                    For example, in the clinch. It doesn’t get closer, but the question of luck is obvious and, perhaps, even on the face wassat )))
                    1. +1
                      25 June 2022 07: 50
                      It happens in sex, for example. This is much closer than in the clinch.
        2. +3
          20 June 2022 09: 25
          And they were collecting taxes.
          ..The Ottomans in terms of taxes basically nightmared the non-Muslim population, Europeans and their own .... Jews. Moreover, they appointed Jews to public positions, to levy taxes.
          1. +2
            25 June 2022 07: 52
            And it was not only they who did this, the Poles in the Ukrainian lands appointed Jews as managers, read Gogol what a Cossack fun was in the event of a grandiose nix - to cut the Jews. Therefore, the Israelis who drown for Ukraine amuse me, I know that there, in Ukraine, there is complete order with anti-Semitism.
        3. +2
          25 June 2022 07: 48
          I believe that the rumors about the genocide are exaggerated by the chroniclers themselves. I'm not talking about this period, but in general. Here they write that the city was cut out as a result of the assault, lo and behold, it still exists after, how does it happen? New townspeople moved in? So do not believe it.
          And then, people are a resource that absolutely everyone understood, there were no gasters then and there was nowhere to bring them from. You can rob, rape, brutally kill someone, but massively roll into the ground, no, I doubt it.
    3. +3
      20 June 2022 13: 28
      Just "Karl stole corals from Clara" - the rest of the consequence. The moral is simple: "They will help you, but you don't steal!" (c) laughing
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +6
          20 June 2022 21: 33
          Sorry, I can’t calmly read about the “castrato” and I didn’t. Our neighbors have a relative from Donetsk who came to a neighboring village six months ago, her son, a young guy, fought in the militia, was captured, was exchanged a month ago and came here. Hanged himself a week later. Doctors examined the body and found out that he was castrated in captivity. The guy just couldn't live with it.
          It's one thing when you just read about such things as something far away, and quite another when it happens next to you.
          I am not a sentimental person at all, but it hooked me tightly. This is who you need to be to do this to a person! If you want to kill - kill, but this ...
          And what, VikNick will again stick to me that "about Bandera is not necessary"?
          We drove. I can see what they are without propaganda.
          1. +3
            20 June 2022 22: 40
            It's time to extend this practice to 7000+ beaver soldiers, who are now in comfortable Russian captivity.
            1. +5
              20 June 2022 22: 46
              You know, Alex, the difference between a man and a beast is that he doesn't act like a beast. And it’s worth taking an example from mrazi and sinking to the level of a subhuman.
              1. +3
                20 June 2022 22: 56
                Sounds nice. They cut off ours, and we give them (I know, incorrectly) three meals a day and a warm, clean bed. Only the British used Wily Pete (illuminating grenades) in the cities Yes with white phosphorus), and then they noticed that there were very few people who wanted to stand to the death in other cities. As a result, Iraq was broken (said the one who used it). Do you have checkers or do you still go?
                Applied psychology. Those who do this believe in the power of fear. That is, they know its power, its paralyzing effect. That is, PANTS. So they need to be scared. And everything will work. For the Wazmir, who, as you know, are with them, the Russian Federation will remain Asian orcs, even though you feed the captives with black caviar. So no matter what the RF Armed Forces do, they will be accused of committing every imaginable crime, regardless of whether they were committed. So it's better to do them - for the cause of hemorrhoids is better than for so. In English-better regret things you've done than those you haven't. Something like this.
                1. +2
                  20 June 2022 23: 29
                  You play with the SHOOTER(s) by HIS rules. Isn't it clear? And is it smart?
                2. +2
                  20 June 2022 23: 55
                  Russia will remain Asian orcs

                  I don't care who they think we are, what matters to me is who I think I am and who my children think they are. And, there are just things that a sane person would never do. That's the whole philosophy. And the end does not always justify the means, we have already gone through this.
                  1. +2
                    21 June 2022 00: 06
                    the end does not always justify the means
                    The British would celebrate the first of April in Lvov. And they would regret their losses of two hundred soldiers.
                    we already passed it.
                    Non-serious decisions always lead to serious troubles.
                    better regret things you've done than those you haven't.
                    Prove me wrong,damn my boots drinks You can, that is, need to, learn a lot from the English.
          2. +1
            25 June 2022 07: 54
            Even remotely reading, you are amazed at this, it's ... well, there are simply no normal words. I, too, am not sentimental even once, but I don’t know what to do in his place, but I definitely wouldn’t want to live.
      2. +2
        20 June 2022 20: 16
        And if you want to refute the saying, drag a billion at once. For it is necessary to share, - as Lifshitz said in the 90s.
        And then I thought: who was Lifshitz? Only this phrase remained in history wassat )))
        And why do our politicians remain in history only sayings?
        1. +2
          20 June 2022 21: 18
          And then I thought: who was Lifshitz?
          Lyudmila, I know only one Lifshitz, the one who is "Landau, Akhiezer, Lifshitz, Course of Theoretical Physics". Was there another?
          1. +2
            20 June 2022 22: 53
            Was there another?

            Yeah. Like a politician. Offered to share profits. The people did not understand, they decided that the name was offering to share with him, naive.
            1. +2
              20 June 2022 23: 09
              offered to share profits
              In England (without schemes) you will have to share 44% of your income. If you don't want to, Heathrow is open, and the Negro gangs in prison are waiting for you, they won't wait. And nothing, everyone pays.
              1. +2
                20 June 2022 23: 31
                And nothing, everyone pays.

                It's not about taxes. About the greed of our rich. Billions are piling up, the workers are somehow, and even they are asking the state for help. From the budget. When the covid began, Sechin, Russian Railways, Aeroflot were paid 100 billion each of the so-called irrevocable debt ... There were more than 1000 such people who wanted to. The Internet grumbled only when they were going to provide "help" to a gaming offshore company. And the population began to rip off fines ...
                We then butted heads at the VO with the government. And now the opportunity is gone. There's a powerful theme in Analytics(?)
                Amendments to the law on repressions. People say, since the SVO, now it’s impossible to open your mouth, because without tacit consent to any injustice, flaw, theft, etc. - consent, designed to demonstrate the unity of the people and power, we will not win. Is the government going to demonstrate unity with us? What about the rich? And then it turns out, we stretch out our hands to them, and they spit in our palms.
                1. +3
                  20 June 2022 23: 35
                  Sechin, Russian Railways, Aeroflot 100 billion each
                  Copecks laughing How many billion pounds were given to local corporations ... It is worth noting that small businesses and even belay to ordinary people, in covid half of the bill in the restaurant was paid by the state.
                  since CBO, so now you can’t open your mouth,
                  Unfortunately, you have many in favor of defeat. I have not yet met ANY Briton who would say that he does not need the Falklands. And in the Russian Federation there are such. Propaganda is a weapon on which they relied in the expectation that the regime existing in the Russian Federation would collapse in 2-4 weeks and Hodor, Chich and Sisyan would come to power. With these three, you will envy Nigerians.
                  About the greed of our rich
                  It is your rich who are distinguished by cheap ostentatious luxury. For a British multimillionaire to arrive in jeans in a Toyota is not at all zapadno, and besides, he has a GShock watch for 100 pounds. And even have a drink with the workers in the pub. I don't know why. Asia?
                  1. +3
                    21 June 2022 00: 14
                    I don't know why. Asia?

                    No. The period of primitive accumulation of capital by those who from behind our curtain looked with hungry eyes at the luxury of the Western rich. Now the Swedish king walks to work, but then ... Yes, and stupidly, ours invested in the wrong thing, and they are not entrepreneurs, but thieves. A thief and you are arrogant. Modest capitalism has settled, calmed down, satiated, but cautious. The nouveau riche are stupid and immodest, believing that luck is infinite.
                    1. +3
                      21 June 2022 00: 35
                      walking, and then
                      Then it was the same. I personally met BoJdo (the same one) on London Bridge when I worked there.
                      they are not entrepreneurs, but thieves.
                      Accurately noted. The legend of Russian business, Chichvarkin, went bankrupt in London (you really need to work here). I met the same - yes, I’ll bend everything here in England, only they don’t give a residence permit, horny wassat And I would turn around Yes . Chel rented from a collapsed research institute in the vastness of Russia, where his dad was in charge, a room with machine tools for a penny and imagined himself an oligarch.
                2. 0
                  25 June 2022 08: 01
                  Sechin at least fulfilled his military duty, he is a military translator, he fought in Angola.
                  Here, madam, the question is not some kind of greed, in the end, at the very least, they chipped into the army, but in essence. When our oligarchs are compared with nobles, that's why they are nobles. Feudal lords, they do not have the concept of capital, and if a capitalist decreases, then it increases for another, this is the meaning of capitalism in general.
                  And about workers, that vacation, that sick leave, that insurance legislation and an 8-hour working day - this is won with blood. None of this just fell for nothing.
        2. +2
          20 June 2022 21: 35
          I wrote something above in response to Anton's verse. Nothing pleasant, but it's better to know about it.
          1. +2
            20 June 2022 23: 06
            This is not the only tragedy.
            Similar was in Tatarstan. At first they lied to us that there was nothing like that. Then authoritative people blurred the topic. I understood what happened. Hatred settled in me. Calm such hatred. And because of peace - forever.
            Everything is already measured.
            1. +1
              20 June 2022 23: 59
              Calm such hate


              This is good. The barrel in the hands will not tremble.
  5. +2
    20 June 2022 07: 28
    Comrades, today I was only able to read about "legal Marxism"
    "Fought" with the Colorado Beetles. I have constant battles with them.
    And today I read about Marxism and now for "sweet" Alba
    1. +5
      20 June 2022 09: 54
      Svyatoslav, you be careful with the names of pests wassat )))

      "I am Russian. I am the same" Colorado ".
      Sovdepovsky sucks, rashist and cotton wool.
      I'm the one who loves vodka and Parade,
      I am the offspring of a victorious soldier..." (Vladimir Kobets)

      And then I read and looked at your message in bewilderment)))
      1. +1
        20 June 2022 13: 56
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, good day, what else to call them? Mat is not allowed, moderators will not allow it, and we often use in conversation: beetle and obscene definitions
        1. +1
          20 June 2022 15: 35
          Does he eat potatoes? )))
          1. +1
            20 June 2022 16: 21
            What does he plant?
          2. +2
            20 June 2022 21: 20
            Does he eat potatoes? )))
            He prefers eggplant, but when he eats them, he starts eating potatoes. This is in my sister's garden in the Crimea.
            1. +1
              20 June 2022 23: 09
              Probably, the bugs were brought by the Spaniards from South America. Together with vegetables, fruits, flowers and gold.
              1. +2
                21 June 2022 07: 46
                Not otherwise. Voracious, prolific. Just like a refugee from the Middle East.
  6. +2
    20 June 2022 07: 31
    Comrades, have you noticed that there is no "Ural cat"? Looks like in the service: in the barn catches mice
    He would definitely thank Valery, and I will say it instead.
    Valery, thanks for Alba, it turned out chicdos
    1. +3
      20 June 2022 10: 00
      What kind of "Ural cat"?
      I know one - Marine. But he lives in the forests of the Ryazan region, where he feeds on small game. wassat )))
      1. 0
        20 June 2022 14: 00
        I'm talking about my namesake, in the "past" life: "Kotishche"
        1. 0
          20 June 2022 21: 21
          I'm talking about my namesake, in the "past" life: "Kotishche"
          It hasn't been for a long time. Banned?
  7. +2
    20 June 2022 08: 01
    The Duke of Alba and his opponents, "orderlies of the forest" in their own way. smile
  8. +2
    20 June 2022 08: 38
    Good morning everyone.
    "He turned out to be a useless politician" Valery, but imagine yourself in his place. Since childhood, a zealous Catholic, a faithful servant of the king, what will you do?
    I'm afraid the choice was limited.
    1. +3
      20 June 2022 09: 24
      Alessandro Farnese did it better
      1. 0
        20 June 2022 10: 57
        I can't remember this
        1. +3
          20 June 2022 11: 04
          He is Alexander of Parma.
          1. VLR
            +6
            20 June 2022 11: 56
            The second successful bastard of the Habsburgs - along with Juan of Austria, with whom he was brought up and under whose command he fought in the battle of Lepanto. The son of the illegitimate daughter of Charles V, the great-grandson of the brother of the mistress of Pope Alexander Borgia - Giulia Farnese. Who received the rank of cardinal from Borgia and then himself became the Pope - Paul III.
            1. 0
              20 June 2022 14: 05
              Valery, and here the origin would help: with what kind of genes, the first-class one will be cunning
            2. +2
              20 June 2022 14: 26
              Son of a hyena and a snake
        2. +2
          20 June 2022 14: 24
          Should I have said that I am his sister and would they have put a plus? And for the truth minus
  9. +6
    20 June 2022 08: 43
    8th Lord Valdecorne
    Probably, after all, signor de Valdecorne. Lords - they are more in Britain.
    At the same time, Alba treated people who did not have a noble rank without prejudice,
    Yes - he believed that his nobility would be enough for the entire army and promoted his subordinates solely on merit.
  10. +5
    20 June 2022 08: 56
    However, this time, another duke, Alba, was more successful, who defeated the French at the Battle of San Quentin (August 10, 1557).
    This is not true - the army of the Spaniards was commanded by the Duke Emmanuel-Philiber of Savoy (the French - Anne de Montmorency)
    NYA, there were no major battles in that company, except for the unsuccessful assault by the French on the city of Civitate. Alba had far fewer troops than François de Guise, so he refrained from fighting. After Saint-Quentin, the French had no time for Italy and de Guise was urgently recalled to defend Paris.
  11. +5
    20 June 2022 10: 35
    But the roles in this historical drama are scheduled once and for all, and are unlikely to ever change.

    Strongly disagree!
    Thank you, Valery!
    1. +3
      20 June 2022 10: 42
      Quote: 3x3zsave

      Strongly disagree!

      Taki Yes! The characteristic of a person in history depends on the person who gives this characteristic ...
      Greetings Anton, when will your next article come out?
      1. +4
        20 June 2022 10: 47
        Hi Aleksey! I don't know yet. It is written, but you still need to pick up and sign the pictures.
        1. Fat
          +3
          20 June 2022 12: 04
          Greetings Anton. When you sign the photo, be kind to share the technical details what
          1. +4
            20 June 2022 12: 05
            Good afternoon, Borisych!
            All right.
      2. +5
        20 June 2022 13: 22
        The characteristic of a person in history depends on the person who gives this characteristic ...
        That's right!
        A striking example is the image of Eleanor of Aquitaine, now considered one of the prominent women of the Middle Ages. Even 60 years ago, the opinion of historians about it was sharply opposite.
  12. +4
    20 June 2022 10: 37
    Valery once again tries to wash the black dog white. smile
    Alba, on the other hand, was an impeccable performer who literally and without hesitation carried out the orders of both Charles V and his son. Thus, he was simply doomed to become an anti-hero of that war, taking on those streams of dirt that were actually intended for Philip II.

    Well, just such an honest Alba was an honest servant, well, just some kind of Saint Arakcheev, not otherwise. A kind of knight without fear and reproach. laughing
    Let's start with the fact that he was an extremely arrogant, proud and cruel person. That he supposedly
    treated without prejudice people who did not have a noble rank
    , so this is only because, from the height of his own origin, he simply did not see much difference between some impoverished seigneur and yesterday's peasant. smile
    He was a fanatical Catholic and the only possible way to combat heresy was the physical destruction of heretics. At the royal court, it was a classic "hawk", which at one time was hardly kept from rushing at the French Huguenots. Sending such a man to the Protestant Netherlands was like putting a ferret in a chicken coop, nothing more than a massacre could be expected from him there. In short, Philip knew perfectly well whom and where he was sending.
    War has always been a cruel and rude thing, but, perhaps, it was at this time, and not least of all, that the wars acquire special cruelty and destructiveness through the hands of Alba. So to speak, New time, new heroes. smile
    1. +4
      20 June 2022 11: 12
      Netherlands
      And these have been so white and fluffy all their history!)))
      1. +4
        20 June 2022 11: 25
        Smart and hard-working, unlike the stupid Spaniards)
        1. VLR
          +4
          20 June 2022 12: 05
          And the speculators were very talented. From the seller to the buyer, the goods were resold 7 times! That is why, by the way, they rebelled (there were other reasons, but this is the main one) - they had to pay one of the types of Alcabala ("the tenth pfening") not once, like the Spaniards, but 1 times to pay. More on this in the next article.
          1. +5
            20 June 2022 12: 12
            I read another explanation.
            Among the Spaniards, due to mass nepotism and the imperfection of the bureaucracy, the real tax collection was many times less than the nominal rate. Local Cortes turned a blind eye to this.
            Soldier Alba decided to squeeze out the tax according to the letter of the law. Here is the result
      2. +3
        20 June 2022 11: 33
        The pearl of the Spanish crown, so called the Netherlands provinces, the Spaniards themselves ..
      3. +5
        20 June 2022 12: 20
        I didn't say anything about the Netherlands. I do not want to translate the discussion into the mainstream of "who started it first" - Spaniards or Flemings, Catholics or Protestants, feudal lords or bourgeois. smile
        I just wanted to say that the "bad war" started by the landsknechts and the Swiss began to spread throughout Europe and the "noble knight" Duke of Alba took an active part in this process.
        And he was not at all an executive, but a stupid servant, with a penchant for "democracy", but an arrogant, fanatical, intelligent and cruel aristocrat of the Late Middle Ages. Medieval ghoul as he is. smile
        1. +5
          20 June 2022 12: 31
          era of the Late Middle Ages.
          Well, what kind of Middle Ages is this, albeit later? The most terry, le belle Renessans!)))
          1. +3
            20 June 2022 12: 52
            Spain at that time was still in the deep Middle Ages. The beautiful Renaissance diligently bypassed her side. smile
            Alba in the Netherlands acted exactly as the most, as they say, medieval satrap, according to patterns tested centuries before him. smile
            1. +5
              20 June 2022 13: 04
              Are we back to the "staging" theory?
              You and I, Mikhail, are talking about different things. You - that Alba was a classic representative of his time and society. With which I certainly agree.
              And I - about, perhaps the first in history, a global campaign of "black PR" deployed around the events of the "Eighty Years' War" and the irreversibility of the results of this campaign, which I hinted at in my very first comment on this thread.
              1. +1
                20 June 2022 15: 12
                If we talk about "black PR", then in relation to what Alba did in the Netherlands (and I started talking about him), no "PR" was needed. He really drowned the country in blood and squeezed everything dry out of it. He went there to kill and take away and didn’t do anything else and didn’t want to.
                I repeat, I am not talking about the war as a whole, only about that small period of it when Alba led the Netherlands. He honestly earned his reputation as an executioner, in my opinion.
                As for "irreversibility", then here we are talking, rather, about those who studied the history of the Dutch revolution on the works of Charles de Coster. smile
                1. +1
                  20 June 2022 15: 18
                  No more than Amalric in Béziers or Tilly in Magdeburg.
                  1. +1
                    20 June 2022 16: 12
                    Massacre during the assault or immediately after it is a completely different matter. As well as events like St. Bartholomew's night. In the case of Alba, we are dealing with organized, systematic terror, including, and not least, economic terror, terrible precisely because of its inevitability and ruthlessness.
                    1. +1
                      20 June 2022 16: 27
                      Albigensians robbed to the skin in Carcassonne - is that also something else? Or the pressure of the Moriscos and Sefarads, "de facto" on the basis of property? Why aren't Isabella and Ferdinand called "bloody"?
                      1. +2
                        20 June 2022 17: 41
                        They were called "Catholic" and "Catholic" respectively. Also quite eloquent nicknames. smile
                        And here there is a significant difference: Alba acted in a foreign country, and therefore the nickname - "The Executioner" - he received a more eloquent one.
                        Do you think that Alba is slandered? That he got his nickname undeservedly? Or does the fact that more worthy candidates in world history can be found for such a rattle somehow justify it? smile
                      2. +2
                        20 June 2022 17: 57
                        Why in another country? The Netherlands and Flanders are exactly the same possession of the Spanish crown as, for example, Sicily, at that time.
                        I do not want to justify anyone, as I already wrote, Alba is a classic example of the highest nobility of that time. Elizabeth I - less "bloody" in relation to her people, who spoke the same language with her?
                        I believe that what "Bloody" drove towards Alba was nothing more than a stigma given by the victors to the vanquished.
                      3. +1
                        20 June 2022 18: 23
                        My opinion - Alba was far from the only and not even the most gifted executioner in history. Henry VIII, for example, can compete with him, but he still had more opportunities and time to realize himself in this field. smile
                        But, nevertheless, Alba fully deserved his gifts. And who is awarded with what nickname by contemporaries and what descendants later remember is largely a matter of chance.
                      4. +2
                        20 June 2022 18: 33
                        Well, it seems that we have come to a consensus, to what I always say: the demonization of history does not lead to anything good.
                      5. +2
                        20 June 2022 18: 47
                        Demonization is the destiny of writers, poets and other creative people. Most of all in this regard, it seems to me, Richard III was unlucky ... That's who got it from his contemporaries, and from the closest descendants and from distant ones ...
                        Alba was just lucky compared to him. smile
                      6. +2
                        20 June 2022 19: 03
                        Most unlucky in this regard, it seems to me, Richard III ...
                        I agree with this. In this vein, Shakespeare's play looks like a custom libel.
        2. +3
          20 June 2022 14: 31
          I didn't say anything about the Netherlands. I do not want to translate the discussion into the mainstream of "who started it first"
          More precisely, who "rested first" .. smile
      4. +2
        20 June 2022 13: 15
        Fluffy or shaggy?
        And they gnawed at that time a purple carrot ...
        The ronge was not taken out ...
    2. +1
      20 June 2022 16: 32
      But he treated his wife with great love and respect.
  13. +3
    20 June 2022 10: 55
    and why Barbarossa is not presented by the pirate Barbarossa, but by Admiral Barbarossa. Barbarossa walked only under the Turkish flag, holding his badge like an admiral's pennant. He had the rank of admiral, received a salary from the Turkish treasury, built ships in Turkish shipyards, as an admiral of one state pursued the policy of this state at sea against the policy of several states ... And he is presented as a pirate.
    Here is the same Duke of Alba himself. He served King Charles and acquired for Spain what Barbarossa also acquired for Turkey. But for some reason the first is a duke, and the second is a pirate.
    Maybe it's just wrong for me...
    1. VLR
      +3
      20 June 2022 11: 48
      Khair-ad-Din and his older brother Aruj (there was still a third - Ishak) started out as pirates and made a name for themselves precisely as corsairs. Aruj rebelled his ship and settled on the island of Djerba. Then he managed to capture Algiers, drowning the local emir - his ally. After that, he declared himself a vassal of the Sultan (but not his "employees"). Khair-ad-Din sailed like a corsair under the flag of Aruj. After his death, he became the ruler of Algeria and recognized the power of the Sultan, who sent 2 Janissaries to help him. He rose to the rank of commander-in-chief of the Ottoman fleet, died in honor and respect in Constantinople, surrounded by young girls who, according to the prescription of a Jewish doctor, were supposed to warm him in bed. All ships entering the harbor of the Ottoman capital for a long time saluted in honor of Barbarossa - even after his death.
      1. 0
        20 June 2022 15: 54
        Here are these Italians, happy to give nicknames!
        And they have Friedrich Hohenstaufen - Barbarossa, and the pirate Khair-ad-Din - Barbarossa.
        And it has stuck.
  14. Fat
    +4
    20 June 2022 12: 00
    hi Thanks, Valery. Great article. The farther, the more you understand - how little we know about the people who made history .... recourse
  15. +5
    20 June 2022 12: 10
    _Since 1546, he also became the Grand Master of the Order of the Golden Fleece._ ..........Fernando Álvarez de Toledo y Pimentel could not be the Grand Master of the order in principle, they could only be Spanish kings until the 1505th century, and from the 1555th century Austrian emperors as well. From XNUMX to XNUMX the Grandes maestres de la Orden was Carlos I, rey de España y emperador del Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico. And Alba was a simple knight of the order. _He will be recognized and make a good career, becoming a knight of the Order of Malta and the governor of Catalonia_ And here it is the other way around. Fernando de Toledo was gran prior de la Orden de Malta - Grand Prior of the Order of Malta and Viceroy of Catalonia.
    1. +3
      20 June 2022 13: 24
      Anton, hello and thanks for the photo! smile
      Masha only recognized Nikolai there, he was not lucky, he would not be rich. wink
      1. +4
        20 June 2022 13: 29
        Masha only recognized Nikolai there, he was not lucky, he would not be rich.

        Thank you, Kind Man, in the sense, Kind Cat, for such words ... crying I already shed a tear - I felt your love, tenderness, affection and care! tongue
        1. +3
          20 June 2022 13: 49
          Always happy to help. fellow

          "Pour! Let's drink, by God, more.
          Betsy, we grog a glass
          The last one on the road.
          A slacker who doesn't drink with us.
          Pour full glasses!
          Who's lying that we, brother, are drunk?
          We are only a little merry.
          Well, who is lying so shamelessly?" (c) drinks
          1. +3
            20 June 2022 13: 54
            Do not wash and drink your hands, fifallerala!

            1. +3
              20 June 2022 14: 11
              Yes, something dear and close! drinks

              1. +4
                20 June 2022 14: 35
                Yes, something dear and close!
                This symposium... smile So he was originally .. And then he lost his original essence .. laughing
                1. +2
                  20 June 2022 15: 00
                  The essence is important, and the content ... laughing drinks
          2. Fat
            +2
            21 June 2022 12: 33
            Oho-ho, Konstantin, you posted at almost two o'clock in the afternoon. I drink and eat only in the evening. And in the morning the struggle with withdrawal
            1. +1
              21 June 2022 13: 53
              I will consider for the future. laughing drinks
      2. +2
        20 June 2022 13: 29
        Hi Uncle Kostya!
        thanks for the photo
        "The kid said - the kid did. Didn't do it - he said it again!")))
        From left to right: me, Kolya, Mikhail, Sasha Asanov.
        1. +2
          20 June 2022 13: 31
          Maybe you can send it to me too? feel
          1. +2
            20 June 2022 13: 33
            Yes, of course, just do not post on the forum without the consent of all interested parties.
            1. +2
              20 June 2022 13: 56
              Yes, of course, just do not post on the forum without the consent of all interested parties.

              I won't, of course.
        2. +2
          20 June 2022 13: 45
          I recognized the three of you, but I guessed about Sasha, because I knew that he was participating in the symposium. drinks
  16. +3
    20 June 2022 14: 11
    Along with the Bluebeard, it became a symbol of medieval cruelty, although the Geza pirates became just as cruel, if not more so, a symbol of freedom and the Renaissance.
    An example of the information war and its results in history and public opinion.
    They lived at the same time, acted similarly - but, symbols of different eras and different moral qualities.
    1. +3
      20 June 2022 14: 22
      Along with the "Bluebeard" became a symbol of medieval brutality
      Another "black myth". Gilles d'Rais fell victim to the greed of his relatives.
      1. +4
        20 June 2022 14: 43
        Gilles d'Rais fell victim to the greed of his relatives.

        You see how, over time, you can repaint heroes into anti-heroes and vice versa ... what In Hungary, there is some historian who is sure that the "bloody countess" Erzsebet Bathory was set up. That she didn’t cut anyone, she didn’t bathe in blood, but she was white and fluffy ... And all this set-up was started by the palatine Gyorgy Turzo, with the support of her sons-in-law - after the venture they nicely divided the land of the countess. Well, the elimination of one of the largest Hungarian landowners was in the hands of the Magyar alliance with the Austrians.

        In any case, the film based on this "alternative history" was made in 2008.
        1. +3
          20 June 2022 14: 49
          How about Count Dracula and the Marquis de Sade?
          1. +3
            20 June 2022 15: 08
            How about Count Dracula
            The real Vlad Tepes has little in common with the legends about him, and even more so with Stoker's novel.
            1. +4
              20 June 2022 15: 53
              The real Vlad Tepes has little in common with the legends about him, and even more so with Stoker's novel.

              The Scandinavians Holter even staged a metal opera based on it. good

              As for turning heroes into anti-heroes, as you say - I think it's a great entry:

              1. +2
                20 June 2022 16: 11
                And Pinocchio is an anthropomorphic dendro mutant who led the android uprising.
        2. +3
          20 June 2022 15: 02
          About Countess Bathory, I can only say what I have already said on the forum under Shpakovsky's article about her. The human body contains about 5,5 liters of blood, you can actually "express" four liters. A more or less acceptable tub for such a procedure should have a volume of at least 100 liters. When the bath is at least 50% full, we have 11-12 kills at a time. On the reality and frequency of such procedures, judge for yourself.
  17. +2
    20 June 2022 20: 04
    The House of Alba even rivaled the noble titles of kings.

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