Military Review

Finally, project 22160 patrol ships were re-equipped with air defense systems

45

I saw on the Internet a photo of the patrol ship pr. 22160, which has something similar to the BM "Tor" installed on the stern. There are doubts that this is Photoshop, but I want to believe that the matter has nevertheless moved "from the dead center". The quality of the photo, unfortunately, is not very good.


Photographed with a smartphone. A search in Google and Yandex did not find this photo, so there are no 100% guarantees. Perhaps this is Sevastopol, but alas, firstly, the quality is not very good, and secondly, the author of the material, last time, God willing, that he was not the last, was in the City of Russian Glory in 2011, therefore he is not sure of his guesses. If one of the comrades finds this photo in better quality, with reference to time and place, I will be very grateful.

In the discussion, the participants claim that this is the BM "Tor". Quite recently, we discussed that it would be very logical to re-arm Project 22160 with the "Thor" in a stationary version, especially since such an option has already been worked out. Now the issue of strengthening the air defense of ships and vessels in the Black Sea is more than relevant. And four ships with such a highly effective air defense system are more than welcome.

Judging by the photo, the "Thor" is installed at the very stern cut, apparently as much as the distribution of loads on the hull allows, in order to avoid trim to the stern, or so that this trim is not very large and at the same time minimize the influence of the superstructure so that the "shadow" is minimum. It is known from open sources that the BM "Tor-M2KM" weighs 15 tons, i.e. for a ship with a total displacement of 1800 tons, not much at all.

One of the comrades expressed fears that the superstructure would create a "RL - shadow" for the SOC from forward heading angles, albeit not very large. To which I quite reasonably objected that if project 11356 goes head in a pair, then it will cover project 22160 from the forward heading angles. And I would like to dream a little. After all, you can put two BMs, since the dimensions of the aft deck allow. Separate them as much as possible in length and width in order to avoid the impact of an air wave, while starting from both modules. Then, the "combo", which has one "Shtil" and two "Torah" in its composition, will be able to repel a raid of any "density" that the Ukrainian Armed Forces can only provide. Or a couple of pr. 22160 can accompany small convoys to about. Serpentine. Two - three BDK or auxiliary vessels and a couple of "patrolmen" on the beams, which will save the resource of "admirals", which is by no means endless.
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  3. midivan
    midivan 10 June 2022 04: 17
    +2
    https://topwar.ru/180004-kakim-budet-korabelnyj-zrk-tor.html
    [/ quote] If one of the comrades finds this photo in the best quality, with reference to time and place, I will be very grateful [quote]
    I didn’t find a photo, but here is a whole article that can shed light in the darkness .. repeat - look at Yandex, here the link is lost crying
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 10 June 2022 10: 57
      +5
      Quote: midivan
      Photo not found


      https://topcor.ru/26112-prinimajuschij-uchastie-v-svo-korvet-vasilij-bykov-dovooruzhili-ustanoviv-na-palube-zrk-tor-m2.html
  4. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 10 June 2022 04: 25
    +3
    To which I quite reasonably objected that if project 11356 goes head in a pair, then it will cover project 22160 from the forward heading angles.
    It is quite reasonable that 11356 will cope with the cover of 22160 even without Thor.
    that the add-on will create a "RL - shadow" for the SOC from bow heading angles, albeit not very large.

    The presence of the Pozitiv radar at 22160 will allow, with timely, which is important, the detection of air targets, to turn the ship in order to remove the Thor from the shaded zone. But the risk remains, the targets can be both high-speed and low-flying and inconspicuous.
    1. TermNachTer
      11 June 2022 11: 18
      +1
      I read somewhere that, unfortunately, "Calm" cannot work 24/7 - it needs maintenance breaks, so 22160 will not be superfluous.
  5. Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 10 June 2022 04: 32
    +2
    Information from the cart
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 10 June 2022 07: 21
      +9
      Quote: Santa Fe
      Information from the cart

      this is a photo from tests on 11356 a few years ago
    2. bayard
      bayard 11 June 2022 01: 06
      +3
      If such modules are available, then it would not hurt to install them not only on patrolmen 22160, but also on those BDKs that have helipads or a place on the upper deck. If there is more than one frigate 11356 in the outfit of forces on the traverse of Odessa or as part of the guard of the order of the landing forces, then on the helipad of one of them such a combat module (Thor) will also not be superfluous. "Harpoon" is an insidious missile and leaves little time to react, so you need to arm the maximum number of ships.
  6. faiver
    faiver 10 June 2022 05: 37
    +9
    so this is what the mysterious plug-ins for this project look like, i.e. in fact, the only question is the size of the deck, you can drive Iskander, or Tornado bully
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 10 June 2022 08: 18
      -2
      Quote: faiver
      the only question is the size of the deck, you can drive Iskander, or Tornado

      You can also Satan, but here's the question: a patrol the ships need this and will he then be called a patrolman? laughing
      1. bayard
        bayard 11 June 2022 01: 12
        +3
        Quote: Boris55
        but do patrol ships need this and will he then call himself a patrol ship?

        So for the last few years they have been called "the latest modular corvette" lol . True, after several years of devastating criticism, it was quietly renamed exactly what it is.
        But with the "Thor" on the helicopter deck, he begins to represent himself at least something. For services to blockade Odessa ports must be carried out 24/7, and there are very few ships capable of this. Especially ships with sane air defense.
    2. Mainjet88
      Mainjet88 11 June 2022 08: 31
      +4
      Or maybe Malka-S or Coalition-SV. Absolutely modular ship comes out.
      A dozen parking spaces on the deck - and in an hour it turns into anything)))
  7. ramzay21
    ramzay21 10 June 2022 07: 43
    +28
    Making a normal corvette right away is not our way. It is necessary to build an unarmed ship so that respected people cut the money, and then try to attach at least something to it. And how to fight off submarines, if anything? Or should we wait until the submarine has sunk something with us?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 10 June 2022 11: 09
      +14
      Quote: ramzay21
      Making a normal corvette right away is not our way. It is necessary to build an unarmed ship so that respected people cut the money, and then try to attach at least something to it.

      He-he-he ... the fact of the matter is that they couldn't even cut it properly. Because the main cut could be just on the modules, which for this ship needed a lot both in number and in type. And in our country, not only was the topic of modules forgotten and abandoned, but also the ship was built without a seat for the largest and "tastiest" modules.
      Neither steal nor guard. ©
      Quote: ramzay21
      And how to fight off submarines, if anything?

      Screw a couple of "Packages" onto the helipad. smile
      All the same, the PLO helicopter cannot be based on 22160 - only PS.
      1. ramzay21
        ramzay21 10 June 2022 20: 55
        +5
        Screw a couple of "Packages" onto the helipad. smile

        This is clear. But the main question is how to detect these submarines? laughing
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 10 June 2022 21: 38
          +5
          Quote: ramzay21
          This is clear. But the main question is how to detect these submarines? laughing

          The most interesting thing is that the GAS module was just made. But there is another problem with him: due to the incorrectly interpreted concept of "modularity", this station was made in the directive in the dimensions of a 40-foot container.
          1. ramzay21
            ramzay21 11 June 2022 05: 50
            +3
            The most interesting thing is that the GAS module was just made. But there is another problem with him: due to the incorrectly interpreted concept of "modularity", this station was made in the directive in the dimensions of a 40-foot container.

            I read about it, and it's understandable. It is not clear why they continue to build these misunderstandings, because it is already clear that because of them we have, in fact, a non-combat-ready fleet on the Black Sea, and the main problem is precisely the PLO. And the trio of frigates, due to the cheaper version of the GAS, are not able to detect anything.
      2. TermNachTer
        10 June 2022 22: 56
        -2
        I want to note that corruption, bribery, nepotism, lobbying, etc., are inherent not only in Russia, if we take the problem more broadly, and not only in relation to the Navy. In the countries of Western "democracy" they also bloom and smell. But this article was written in order to hear the opinion of competent comrades on the issue of the feasibility and effectiveness of such a revision in the light of the situation in the Black Sea.
        1. ramzay21
          ramzay21 11 June 2022 06: 19
          +5
          However, despite lobbying, the Americans built the best fleet in general and the best aircraft carriers, the best UDC, the best URO destroyers, the best SSBNs and the best MAPLs.

          As for your article, the installation of Thor makes a completely useless ship a ship capable of air defense, and in the face of a huge shortage of ships capable of air defense, such a ship will naturally strengthen the Black Sea Fleet, and of course there will be tasks for it. If you manage to put the Torah on all the ships of this project, then it will be great. Getting to Thor by ship is much more difficult than getting to Thor on Snake Island.
          1. TermNachTer
            11 June 2022 09: 27
            +3
            I want to note that the financial and industrial capabilities of the United States have always been at a high level. Thanks to PVM and WWII, they grew very strongly, and after the collapse of the USSR, they had no competitors at all, until recently. We could have had a better fleet. By the way, during the construction of the Ford, they got out of the budget by $ 1,3. Not sickly so, huh?))) And this is only on one, albeit a large one. Well, I wrote about "Zamvolta", if not laziness, you can read it.
            1. ramzay21
              ramzay21 11 June 2022 20: 36
              +4
              Actually, I wrote that despite US lobbying, they are building the best ships, but thanks to our lobbying, we are building non-combat-ready ships, which now need to be finalized so that they can do at least something.
              As for our industrial capabilities, we can do a lot, but this is not used and in most cases it is destroyed by our lobbyists and the last example is the destruction of one of our leading developers of Phazatron radar systems, and he had excellent and inexpensive developments, including for the Navy.
              Our country needs an inexpensive and mass-produced corvette capable of carrying out anti-aircraft defense and air defense instead of the useless 22160 and RTOs, but it does not exist, although there is every opportunity to create it. Such ships would be able to strike and carry out air defense in the Zmeinoye area and blockade this area, and what is especially important is to carry out anti-aircraft defense.
              Can you imagine what would happen if Ukraine had at least one submarine, not even new and not very modern. And in the Black Sea Fleet, after the death of Moscow, there are no ships capable of carrying out high-quality anti-aircraft defense, even the three frigates have it much worse than the same delivered by India.
              As for Ford, compared to Kuzey, he is doing well. Both Ford and Zumwalt are huge ships, with a huge amount of new, and it is absolutely natural that it will take a long time to fine-tune them. Remember how much it took us to fine-tune our really good frigate 22350. And this is just a frigate.
      3. bayard
        bayard 11 June 2022 01: 20
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Screw a couple of "Packages" onto the helipad.

        It is possible to fasten it, but there is no HAK to ensure its operation. And to fasten at least some is extremely problematic.
        And you can fasten the "Package-NK" (and maybe not only it) on the site of a helicopter hangar with shooting through ports, because it's stupid to base a helicopter on it, and for temporary basing / landing, the helipad itself is enough.
        And in place of the hangar, it would be possible to put "Pantsir-M" ... but this is already impossible and impractical.
        But the "Thor" on the deck is a very good find, albeit an ersatz. But as a temporary remedy - even very much.
  8. Sevastopol Life
    Sevastopol Life 10 June 2022 09: 03
    +1
    Yes, this is Sevastopol, in the background are well-recognized objects on the Northern sides of Sevastopol. Photo of the period of the special operation, since the side is painted over.
  9. Tests
    Tests 10 June 2022 09: 23
    +7
    ramzay21 (Vasily), hold your horses. So after all, encroach on the saint! How, with embroidered shoulder straps, will senior officers plan their pension in civilian life? After all, then there will not be enough places for advisers and assistants for everyone, you will have to work. And so - cut, rollback and in the future - a warm place in retirement. On the ship accepted, because NO ONE EVER, from the family of the hosts of the ship, will go to the seas and will not fight ...
    1. avg
      avg 10 June 2022 10: 41
      +5
      It would be nice for you to hold the horses. Where did you see "families accepting the ship" and what percentage of senior officers are involved in these processes and in general with cash flows? But I know how senior officers went on the attack, how candidates and doctors of science guarded meat processing plants and offices at night, where they prepared for lectures. And look at what ranks the pilots fly for attack. And now a little about families. As my friend's wife says: "I had to be a radio operator, Kat and cover his ass, and he dragged me through the very "garbage heaps" of B. East and Africa." And the wife of another friend laments: "Because of me, Sasha is not allowed to retire, but I managed to create the best institution in this country (host country) ... institution." So, for the vast majority of officers, the words remain sacred - First think about the Motherland, and then about yourself!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 10 June 2022 11: 18
        +12
        Specifically, according to 22160 - the person who made the decision to refuse work on the OVR corvette and order this miracle instead, after his dismissal left the ranks ... that's right, to work at USC - the chief adviser to the president of the military shipbuilding corporation.
        Quote: avg
        But I know how senior officers went on the attack, how candidates and doctors of science guarded meat processing plants and offices at night, where they prepared for lectures.

        And other officers at the same time sold out the entire Pacific Fleet in a couple of years, leaving it in fact a flotilla. And what they didn’t sell, they rented out, like “Fotiy Krylov”, for one dollar.
        1. avg
          avg 10 June 2022 11: 45
          +4
          Everywhere there are apostates and criminals, the whole question is in proportion, and Basil:
          So after all, encroach on the saint! How, with embroidered shoulder straps, will senior officers plan their pension in civilian life? After all, then there will not be enough places for advisers and assistants for everyone, you will have to work.
          All Art. officers with one chokh wrote down in bastards.
          1. dim999
            dim999 10 June 2022 12: 27
            +10
            Individual patriots and enthusiasts are somewhat lost against the general background, aren't they? And, what is even more important, they do not prevent colleagues from breaking up, falling in love, sawing everything that is possible and impossible. Look, Klimov almost single-handedly sticks to everyone with cries of "well, you can’t clean guns with bricks" - how many officers and admirals are there in the Navy at least only higher than his rank, and where?)))
            1. huntsman650
              huntsman650 10 June 2022 12: 41
              +7
              And he also tells who and how and how much dough was cut in the fleet, under the guise of repairing air defense systems, instead of replacing them, modernizing them.
          2. ramzay21
            ramzay21 10 June 2022 21: 06
            +2
            Everywhere there are apostates and criminals, the whole question is in proportion, and Basil:

            Actually, I didn't write it in the first place. Secondly, no one blames all the officers, we are talking about rot that must be destroyed, because many of our soldiers and officers have already died because of this rot, and this rot continues to live well and harm. Because of this rot, our fleet does not have combat-ready ships, although the money has been spent on them, and because of this rot, combat officers come up with something to screw on a useless trough so that it can at least perform some tasks.
  10. Non-fighter
    Non-fighter 10 June 2022 09: 38
    +8
    Excuse me, how long does it last?
    The marine environment is a constant high humidity, small water drops and SALT!!! Regular sea salt. After all, it was not in vain that the same "Shell" was adapted, but here I suspect they simply put the land complex on the deck.
    1. TermNachTer
      10 June 2022 14: 45
      -2
      Well, it happens on the shore and rain, and fog, and mud. But in this particular case, it will work for six months and thank God.
    2. Scharnhorst
      Scharnhorst 10 June 2022 17: 24
      +1
      On the very shore of Cape Fiolent (where A.S. Pushkin visited) there were a couple of srdn and a radar company. So it is iron that withstands the charms of the sea coast until it is completely written off, but antenna products made of duralumin happened and did not live up to the second overhaul, crumbled into dust corroded by salt. So the module will work out its time.
      1. TermNachTer
        11 June 2022 11: 25
        0
        In my time, a RTV battalion stood at Cape Fiolent. But there are also cliffs of 60-70 meters. And the battalion was far enough from the coastline. I won’t say about the ZRV, I haven’t seen it. Marines often ran along the road.
  11. acetophenone
    acetophenone 10 June 2022 10: 14
    0
    And these people are going to build cruisers and aircraft carriers? And to fasten the S-500 to the Kuznetsov - weakly?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 10 June 2022 11: 19
      +10
      Quote: acetophenon
      And these people are going to build cruisers and aircraft carriers? And to fasten the S-500 to the Kuznetsov - weakly?

      Easily. At 11435 and the PGRK regiment will fit on the flight deck. smile
    2. Mobik
      Mobik 10 June 2022 20: 59
      +2
      Bullshit question, the deck is large, even a few pieces will fit around the superstructure so as not to create a radio shadow.
  12. Tests
    Tests 10 June 2022 13: 55
    +2
    avg (Alexander), dear, ask the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office for interest. For those who served in the Northern Fleet of the Russian Navy. About the whole Vice Admiral: https://www.rbc.ru/spb_sz/freenews/55929de49a794719538c6381
    and more: https://www.interfax-russia.ru/northwest/news/byvshiy-komandir-belomorskoy-military-morskoy-bazy-prigovoren-k-shtrafu-po-obvineniyu-v-zloupotreblenii-polnomochiyami
    1. Negruz
      Negruz 10 June 2022 14: 43
      +2
      Apartment fraud and diesel....
      What should strike our imagination?
  13. TermNachTer
    11 June 2022 12: 43
    +2
    By the way, in continuation of the topic, border pr. 22640 can also be re-armed with Torami. Displacement and the presence of a helipad allow. Only the high location of the site is alarming - problems with stability are possible.
    1. Motorist
      Motorist 11 June 2022 22: 50
      0
      You have already been written above about sea water: you need to paint with high quality, lubricate, install dust seals, maybe, where to use a different material - then it will last a long time. And stability is calculated by experts for one or two. hi
    2. TermNachTer
      12 June 2022 12: 30
      +2
      Z. Y. Four naval and border guards with "toras" are a significant help for the Black Sea Fleet, in the light of events in the western part of the Black Sea. In addition, "toras" or "armours" can be placed on large landing ships and auxiliary ships of the Navy.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. anclevalico
    anclevalico 14 June 2022 08: 38
    0
    As a bold point in assessing how we are modernizing the fleet. We riveted a bunch of unprotected corites, to which we now fasten ground-based air defense systems with ropes. And there is no one to blame, which means that everything will continue in the same vein. "Fleet heading for Tsushima." Bitter and embarrassing.
  16. TermNachTer
    14 June 2022 13: 03
    0
    It looks like things have gone off the rails. At the "Balancer forums" discussions are in full swing about possible improvements to pr. 22160 for possible options for air defense systems. They swear so much that I even stopped understanding what the forum participants want, and what the customer in the person of the Navy))))
  17. Sedoy
    Sedoy 16 June 2022 21: 48
    -1
    I blinded you from what was ©
  18. TermNachTer
    20 August 2022 09: 03
    0
    A topic has appeared that is not directly related to project 22160, but nevertheless very curious. A new commander of the Black Sea Fleet has been appointed. On the one hand, Admiral Osipov commanded the fleet for more than two years, enough to move to another position. On the other hand, recent events in Novofedorovka lead to bad thoughts. Although Novofedorovka is not known - is it a fleet or a VKS?