Military Review

M142 HIMARS and M270 in Ukraine: find and neutralize

65

London has officially announced that it will transfer the M270 MLRS and ammunition to the Ukrainian army. Naturally, this process was negotiated with the United States, which is behind the delivery.


At all история very peculiar: the UK will supply the M270, and the USA - the M142 HIMARS. Why this alignment is of genuine interest, it turns out a little lower. So far, not even a hint has arrived from Russia, but an open warning that if these MLRS are used, the Russian side will strike at Ukrainian targets that have not previously come into the view of the Russian army.

This warning can be interpreted in different ways, especially without knowing what objects on the territory of Ukraine representatives of the Russian army can look at through the sight.

So, the British are delivering their M270s.


British Defense Minister Ben Wallace announced that Ukraine will receive (completely free of charge) M270 MLRS MLRS and M31A1 ammunition to protect against "Russian aggression". The number of systems and ammunition has not yet been disclosed. But not much, because the British Army has only 36 such installations at its disposal. So we can assume that we will talk about 4 or 8 installations. Most likely, there will be four of them, since the M270B1 money (option for the British army) costs decent, about $ 670 apiece.

What good is in M270?

It is in British cars that there is armor. It's not bad. Good cross-country ability, inherited from the BMP M2 Bradley, the speed is slightly worse than that of the progenitor, since you have to drag more combat load, but the M50 gives out 270 km / h with a total weight of 25,5 tons. Cruising on the highway about 480 km.


The MLRS has 12 launch tubes of 227 caliber, it is possible to re-equip the vehicle into a launcher for MGM-140 ATACMS missiles, but we are not interested in this part, since no one will transfer the MGM-140 to Ukraine. Too expensive toy.

The British will supply Ukrainian friends with M31A1 shells. This is a rocket projectile, created on the basis of the M30 projectile, with a corrected flight. The warhead is high-explosive fragmentation, weighing 90 kg. Designed for use in urban and mountainous areas.

Modification of the M270B1 with M31A1 ammunition, which is capable of hitting targets at a distance of more than 70 km - this is exactly what the Ukrainians asked for: high-precision weapon. M31A1 are aimed at the target using the capabilities of the orbital constellation of GPS satellites.

In general, the gift is rather unpleasant, especially considering how the Ukrainians are going to use it.

But for now we will talk about the second component of the gift, the American one.

M142 HIMARS



Interest in Hymars was already constantly fueled by the Lockheed Martin manufacturers themselves, from time to time throwing the results of various tests and tests into the media, in which it was reported that the missiles of the complex were capable of hitting targets at a distance of 300, 400 and even 500 km!

And what the Poles gave out, declaring their intention to buy 500 M142 HIMARS MLRS in a complete set, and even with “the same” M142 HIMARS missiles, is generally beyond understanding. Starting from why the Poles need so many MLRS and ending with where they will get $ 12 billion to pay for this purchase. Given that the entire military budget of Poland is 13,7 billion dollars.

Of course, if good NATO allies give a loan...

But why Poland needs so many MLRS is another question. Considering that Russia has about a thousand of ALL multiple launch rocket systems, it turns out that Poland is preparing for itself just more than a strange future in terms of army building. The contract, of course, is fantastic, and the revival of the topic was more than unhealthy on all levels.

But HIMARS is how?

M142 HIMARS and M270 in Ukraine: find and neutralize

This is a very fresh MLRS (in service since 2005), which is two in one. This is a half of the M270, but the half is very interesting. Something like "Kama" is a half of "Tornado-S" with us.


You can load six shells with a caliber of 227 mm, you can load one ATACMS missile.


You can also Precision Strike Missile (PrSM), but this is still doubtful, as well as the use of PrSM by third countries. For example, in the conflict in Ukraine.

In general, all statements that HIMARS can shoot at 300-500 km, of course, are a publicity stunt. It is necessary, as always, to read in small letters in footnotes. And it says that yes, HIMARS can send a rocket to 300 km. On tests, ATACMS flew 240 km or more, but about 500 - this is not for her. This is for PrSM. But since the rocket is still at the stage of advanced development, it is not worth seriously discussing the capabilities of PrSM.

In general, if you look at HIMARS as a carrier of a tactical missile, then this is not a competitor to Iskander, since ATACMS is worse in all respects: higher KVO (100-120 m), less flight range, there is no way to overcome the enemy’s missile defense system . In general, ATACMS, developed in the 80s of the last century, is frankly outdated today. And this is recognized even in the US Army, otherwise they would not have directed resources to the creation of new types of weapons such as the same PrSM.

Of course, for countries that are in the third or fourth division in terms of equipping their armies, the M142 HIMARS is something beyond, in no way inferior to our Iskander. It is clear that here the taste and color of all gingerbread cookies are the same.

And we won’t compare Haimars with the Iskander OTRK either, since after all this is an attempt to get both the MLRS and the OTRK on the same chassis, nothing more. And such experiments are rarely successful. And besides, we are talking about MLRS.

The main advantages of M142 HIMARS:
- light launcher (weight 11 tons);
- high speed of movement (up to 85 km/h);
- good autonomy (up to 480 km);
- high mobility (can be stuffed into a transport aircraft);
- a good set of missiles.


HIMARS quite well hits targets at a distance of 5 to 70 km, but the language does not turn around to call the system accurate after the Afghan events. Guided projectiles - yes, but how accurate they are, we will be able to find out a little later, when 4 installations arrive in Ukraine and, if ours do not smash them on the way, then perhaps we will be able to get information about the suitability of this MLRS.

So, four M270s and four M142s will end up in Ukraine. With M31A1 guided projectiles. Could such a number of MLRS have an impact on the situation at the front?

There is only one answer - none.

At the time of the outbreak of hostilities, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had a sufficient number of MLRS "Smerch" and "Hurricane", about 150 vehicles. Compared to this, 8 cars from the UK and the US do not look like serious reinforcements.

Targeted missile strikes? Yes, of course, this is quite possible. Here, the highly mobile HIMARS, twice as light and faster than the M270, is capable of "sword thrusts".


However, most likely, Ukraine will try to destroy targets on Russian territory. It is not for nothing that the donated complexes will be located in Shostka, Sumy region, right?

And it’s not for nothing that the Americans focused so much on the “restrictions” that they impose on the use of HIMARS: do not use it on the territory of the Russian Federation.

But we are well aware of how much Kyiv does not care about this. The old Smerch and Hurricane shells, which are still at the disposal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, are clearly not able to fly normally and hit targets, so the Ukrainians are clearly counting on “retaliation strikes” on Russian territory using M31A1 shells.

And it may well work out.


Therefore, warnings are, of course, good, but in fact the smartest thing that could be done would be to track down the American and British MLRS and destroy them preemptively. Perhaps they are not as good as the manufacturers' managers say, but this is exactly the case when you can (and should) afford not to know such details.

Judging by the incidents in Afghanistan, HIMARS are far from perfect. And therefore, given the intentions of the Ukrainian side, it would be better to destroy the systems before they try to strike at our territory.
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65 comments
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  1. Blacky
    Blacky 10 June 2022 04: 13
    -13
    Yes, why look for them, they will be destroyed in the same way as the Khokhlyatsky RZSO. In normal mode. Nobody will look for them. They will do their job. They will kill a certain number of our guys and equipment. .For a long time, as I understand it, these reactive cars do not live with them. It will also be with the American ones.
    1. Civil
      Civil 10 June 2022 07: 22
      -1
      Let's see how many will arrive under Lend-Lease from the USA. And 8 pieces ... yes, they will do us very badly, but not fatally.
      1. bulvas
        bulvas 10 June 2022 08: 30
        +1
        You can preemptively hit a Western city, for example, a power plant, to inspire.
        Be warned it could be much worse.
        Well, at checkpoints on the border, as without it.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 12 July 2022 14: 12
          0
          You can preemptively strike at the accumulation of equipment in military warehouses / bases in Poland. And that's it.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 12 July 2022 14: 11
      0
      Yes, why look for them, they will be destroyed in the same way as the Khokhlyatsky RZSO. In normal mode. Nobody will look for them. They will do their job. They will kill a certain number of our guys and equipment.

      They hit at the range of the "Smerch" and are much more accurate.
      They hit not only the guys and equipment, but also the ammunition depots, which is why the first of these ammunition may not be enough for an offensive.
      Well there's nothing you can do

      Periodically, information surfaced that such equipment, in principle, nowhere after crossing the Polish-Ukrainian border is not delayed, not accumulated, but immediately goes to the front.
      And there it is already fighting, and even being destroyed, it fulfills its task.
      The only thing a place where all this is stored and where it can be covered "wholesale" - warehouses, railway stations and military airfields on the territory of Poland.
      You can simply make a tough statement - launch several CDs for these purposes. For humane reasons, 10-15 minutes in advance warning about this (people will have time to run out). And the problem is solved.
      But for some reason, the military and the leadership of Russia do not dare to make an obvious and logical move. They only express dissatisfaction.
      Here is Iran - it was not afraid and hit the US base after the assassination of its general. I draw your attention to the fact that this did not lead to any big war, the Americans understood everything.
      How many Russian soldiers must die from American missiles to finally push for a final solution to the problem of arms supplies to the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
      1. Tumbleweed
        Tumbleweed 18 July 2022 06: 13
        0
        "You can just make a tough statement - launch several CDs for these purposes."
        This is an attack on a NATO country. What exactly are the consequences of HZ, but they will untie their hands.
  2. Sergey Kuzmin
    Sergey Kuzmin 10 June 2022 04: 23
    +7
    the smartest thing to do would be to track down the American and British MLRS and destroy them preemptively. Perhaps they are not as good as the manufacturers' managers say, but this is exactly the case when you can (and should) afford not to know such details.
    Track and destroy on the territory of western Ukraine, and even together with ammunition and a supply of shells ... so much so that these shells fly in all directions during detonation to the range they are capable of. Let the Zapadensky Bandera-Ukronazis experience for themselves the "charms" of what the Anglo-Saxons gave them. And then after that let them thank their Zelensky ...
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 10 June 2022 05: 32
      +7
      Quote: Sergey Kuzmin
      . Yes, so that when these shells detonate, they fly in all directions to the range that they are capable of.

      Does the engine start when knocked? gee..
      1. TreeSmall
        TreeSmall 10 June 2022 08: 36
        +1
        Does the engine start when knocked?

        But so patriotic
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Revolver
    Revolver 10 June 2022 04: 40
    +18
    Are satellites flying? Is the territory of 404 and neighboring countries tracked? Or... not tracked?
    Dominance in the air won? Or... not conquered?
    Does intelligence work on the territory of neighboring countries? Or... not working???
    If everything is as it should be, and as it should be, then the echelon with these wunderwaffles should arrive where the wheelsets are being changed to fit the Russian gauge. By the way, if this gauge change facility is in/on, then it in itself deserves to be turned into a pit filled with groundwater. And if in Poland, then, respectively, immediately after entering / on. And if they are going to deliver by plane directly to Kuev, then where and from whom did I hear that the S-400s are shooting through all the airspace over Nezalezhnaya?
    And if everything is wrong, then someone should draw organizational conclusions.
    1. svp67
      svp67 10 June 2022 04: 54
      +11
      Quote: Nagan
      Are satellites flying?

      They fly, but not often. A previously launched satellite, for conducting round-the-clock reconnaissance, everything has already ... burned down. And yet there is no new
      Quote: Nagan
      Dominance in the air won? Or... not conquered?

      It was conquered and is now being held at the front level ... The Soviet air defense system, 40 years ago, was created by geniuses, it allows, even in such conditions, to snap back and deliver painful blows, and we are only now learning to destroy it.
      Quote: Nagan
      By the way, if this gauge change facility is in/on, then it in itself deserves to be turned into a pit filled with groundwater.

      This premise is available both on the territory of / on and on the adjacent territory, and these are already NATO countries
      Quote: Nagan
      And if everything is wrong, then someone should draw organizational conclusions.

      More than one pack of A4 paper should go to these conclusions, since there are "punctures" and outright "failures" on all points and the answers to what you have listed will take a maximum of one page
      1. Maki maki
        Maki maki 10 June 2022 07: 50
        +3
        Quote: svp67
        By the way, if this gauge change facility is in/on, then it in itself deserves to be turned into a pit filled with groundwater.

        This premise is available both on the territory of / on and on the adjacent territory, and these are already NATO countries

        In Telega, the user Rybar periodically publishes a list of critical targets in western Ukraine, along with the coordinates. But they don't fly.
      2. 3danimal
        3danimal 12 July 2022 14: 17
        0
        and these are NATO countries

        And what does that change?
        A logical and reasonable solution is a limited strike by the Kyrgyz Republic on warehouses with equipment.
        The Iranians (unlike some) were not afraid to hit the US military base. And ... there was nothing in response. Such a message.
    2. saigon
      saigon 10 June 2022 06: 06
      +7
      Yes, wheel pair change points should have risen into the air for a long time! Judging by Belarus, they are on the territory of the republic, I think in Ukraine as well.
  6. svp67
    svp67 10 June 2022 04: 48
    +6
    Strangely, everyone remembered the upcoming deliveries from the USA M-142 and from Britain M270, but they forgot about Germany, although the photos were shown. Germany will supply its own version of the M270 - MLRS "Mars".
    It will be difficult to trace them, due to the small number of combat vehicles supplied and the frank weakness of our intelligence systems now, due to their small number, but there is hope for undercover intelligence.
    1. Frost
      Frost 10 June 2022 06: 30
      +3
      Germany plans to supply Ukraine with four MARS-2 multiple launch rocket systems from the stocks of the Bundeswehr. But since the Germans are traditionally in no hurry, according to Business Insider, “Before transferring the MLRS to Ukraine, it is necessary to adapt their software, since German systems cannot use the UK and US-made ammunition that Ukraine just has,” the publication notes. solving problems with software in the worst case can stretch for months.
      1. tarabar
        tarabar 10 June 2022 07: 08
        +1
        The Germans, just like small children, turned on the fool and think that they are smarter than everyone. Remember recently Scholz asked: "Explain to me, I don't understand how to pay for Russian gas in rubles?". Our wits drew a diagram for him: "Russia-gas-Germany, Germany-rubles-Russia." Apparently it came right away and now they are paying safely. With the software update on their M270, the same situation is "M270-USB flash drive with software-update-press Enter". It's simple, after the update is completed, you may need to reboot the system. laughing And they rub everyone that they won’t be able to cope with the renewal before winter. laughing
        1. Artillerieunteroffizier
          Artillerieunteroffizier 10 June 2022 14: 07
          0
          The scheme is good, even the chancellor of liverwurst understands it. The excuse with software for MARS systems is also good. You procrastinate, it could take months. Basically, they don't want to supply arms, but Joseph Biden keeps calling and ranting.
  7. kristAl
    kristAl 10 June 2022 05: 39
    -1
    Therefore, warnings are, of course, good, but in fact the smartest thing that could be done would be to track down the American and British MLRS and destroy them preemptively. Perhaps they are not as good as the manufacturers' managers say, but this is exactly the case when you can (and should) afford not to know such details.

    Judging by the incidents in Afghanistan, HIMARS are far from perfect. And therefore, given the intentions of the Ukrainian side, it would be better to destroy the systems before they try to strike at our territory.

    Come on Roman, do they even pose a threat to us? However, I didn’t expect such an interpretation from you, aren’t you returning to the real world?
  8. rocket757
    rocket757 10 June 2022 05: 47
    +1
    So, four M270s and four M142s will end up in Ukraine. With M31A1 guided projectiles. Could such a number of MLRS have an impact on the situation at the front?
    There is only one answer - none.

    Absolutely yeah.
    Any weapon is applied to the army, not the army to the weapon.
  9. riwas
    riwas 10 June 2022 05: 57
    +2
    A modification of the M270B1 with M31A1 ammunition, which is capable of hitting targets at a distance of more than 70 km, is exactly what the Ukrainians asked for: a precision weapon. M31A1 are aimed at the target using the capabilities of the orbital constellation of GPS satellites.

    Our "TORs" will be able to intercept them. In addition, we have electronic warfare for setting GPS evading signals.
    1. fsb_buzuk
      fsb_buzuk 10 June 2022 09: 24
      +4
      I don’t think that every headquarters, every railway station and every warehouse has such electronic warfare and air defense. In any case, high-precision GPS projectiles are very dangerous and harmful rubbish in the presence of Amerz satellite intelligence, which is rumored to transmit real-time information to the Khikhls.
  10. Evgenijus
    Evgenijus 10 June 2022 06: 22
    +6
    Zelensky, like Hitler during the agony of the Wehrmacht in 1945, zombifies his people and the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a "terrible weapon" that will turn the tide of the war. It would be better if he hid a canister of gasoline for himself.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 10 June 2022 06: 53
      +5
      Quote: Evgenijus
      Zelensky, like Hitler during the agony of the Wehrmacht in 1945, zombifies his people and the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a "terrible weapon" that will turn the tide of the war.

      He's even worse than Hitler. Ze sold the country and is now in a hurry to transfer it under the patronage of Poland! And faster. So you need to "find and neutralize" as quickly as possible.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 10 June 2022 07: 22
        +2
        It is possible, and even necessary, to offer him a profitable deal. For a signature on the act of surrender - a board to Israel for him with all his children and household members, and even without limiting the weight of luggage. Because apart from Israel, no one alive needs him. That America, that the EU needs him as a corpse in a halo of martyrdom, but they will not accept him alive. Well, or they will accept, but they will fuss so that he becomes a corpse in the halo of martyrdom as soon as possible. Guilty, essno, appoint the bloody paws of the KGB. In general, he didn’t give up on Israel either, but they are obliged to accept it because it is a “law of return”. You can even promise him some money to open a TV show in a new place, anyway it will be cheaper than going to the Polish border with fights.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 10 June 2022 07: 27
          +4
          Quote: Nagan
          Because apart from Israel, no one needs him alive

          He has a "khatynka" in Costa Rica. And the parents have long been in Israel, but the wife and children are in London.
          Quote: Nagan
          . You can even promise him the dough to open a TV show in a new place,

          To act together with Galkin? It will not tolerate competition.
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 10 June 2022 07: 54
            +4
            Quote: Egoza
            To act together with Galkin?

            Gau porn show? Well, it even sounds quite politically correct. Somewhere even tolerantnenko and progressive.lol
  11. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 10 June 2022 06: 32
    +6
    Maybe it's easier to buy these MLRS from dill? No, seriously, bombard them with leaflets stating that they will be paid for the delivery of various weapons systems, so much for anti-tank systems, so much for a tank, so much for MLRS, so much for an airplane or helicopter.
    1. bairat
      bairat 10 June 2022 07: 41
      +2
      You have to look wider. For Zelensky million one hundred dollars to appoint a reward. They will bring it in their hands.) If not, then they will sit all the time in their bunker, suspecting each of their entourage.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 10 June 2022 12: 57
        +2
        Why do we need Zelensky?! We don’t need it for nothing, but Western technology in an intact state will be very useful for studying.

        Americans always do this, buy and bribe, but for some reason ours are shy.
    2. novel66
      novel66 10 June 2022 10: 10
      0
      good idea!! loot and a Russian passport, it might work
  12. Liam
    Liam 10 June 2022 06: 53
    -3
    ATACMS is worse in all respects: higher than the KVO (100-120 m


    Oh, how many wonderful discoveries we have ....)
  13. mediumpro
    mediumpro 10 June 2022 08: 12
    +5
    The critical shortage of attack drones in the Russian Federation is helping to grow the problem of enemy shelling from MLRS.
    1. fsb_buzuk
      fsb_buzuk 10 June 2022 09: 26
      +3
      That's for sure. Somehow, with the counter-battery fight, it’s not very good, you need to seriously increase the reaction speed.
  14. APASUS
    APASUS 10 June 2022 11: 14
    0
    I don’t understand, did the Ukrainians receive the control codes of the military unit of the GPS, or are the Poles (presumably) sitting at the consoles there?
  15. iouris
    iouris 10 June 2022 13: 09
    -2
    Why Poland - this is understandable: Kaliningrad. Why do we need this problem and how will it be solved? And if it doesn’t happen or not until the end, then what? There is an escalation, and a serious one at that. It's time to hurt "colleagues".
  16. Negro
    Negro 10 June 2022 13: 11
    +5
    I look, the cycle "little, late, useless" has been handed over to new hands.
    It is not for nothing that the donated complexes will be located in Shostka, Sumy region


    Keeping your best weapons away from the combat zone is certainly a very promising idea. Given all the achievements of the Ukrainian side, this, of course, cannot be ruled out.

    However, another thing cannot be ruled out - that the machines will be used as expected. Moreover, the story with English citizens in the DPR may well inspire the British to provide organizational assistance, so to speak, and not just send iron.

    With such pies, missile systems wandering between Slavyansk and Krematorsk may well close the issue with artillery in the entire Izyum-Severodonetsk-Gorlovka region. If, of course, they can be provided with intelligence and command and control according to NATO standards, and not to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    This is for PrSM. But since the rocket is still at the stage of advanced development, it is not worth seriously discussing the capabilities of PrSM.

    The missile is pre-production, from next year it will be delivered to the army. But the transfer of such missiles to third countries, as far as I know, is prohibited.
    after all, this is an attempt to get both the MLRS and the OTRK on the same chassis, nothing more. And such experiments are rarely successful.

    This particular experiment is extremely successful. In addition, these machines have not been used as MLRS for a long time.
    The MLRS has 12 launch tubes of 227 caliber, it is possible to re-equip the vehicle into a launcher for MGM-140 ATACMS missiles, but we are not interested in this part, since no one will transfer the MGM-140 to Ukraine. Too expensive toy.

    First, there are no pipes. A container with ammunition of any of 5 different calibers is inserted there. You can also make a container with hailstones, but it seems that none of the operators were interested in hailstones.
    Secondly, a container with 6 M31A1 missiles, which the British are talking about, costs $3M. The MGM-140 tactical missile costs the same (the old ones cost less) and, according to the Lend-Lease law, Joe can supply them in any quantity. Restrictions are only political.
  17. 73bor
    73bor 10 June 2022 15: 06
    +2
    It was the next "MLRS witnesses" that appeared, where now there is a crowd of "JAVELIN witnesses", and 8 pieces is clearly not to shoot at Russian troops - it's to "smack" at peaceful cities!
  18. Beetle1991
    Beetle1991 11 June 2022 09: 46
    +1
    Most likely, there will be four of them, since the M270B1 money (option for the British army) costs decent, about $ 670 apiece

    For this money, you can’t even buy an armored personnel carrier in the west.
    And here is the launcher on the chassis from Bradley.
    And what the Poles gave out, declaring their intention to buy 500 M142 HIMARS MLRS in a complete set, and even with “the same” M142 HIMARS missiles, is generally beyond understanding. Starting from why the Poles need so many MLRS and ending with where they will get $ 12 billion to pay for this purchase

    Not 500 rszo, but 500 launch containers. Each container contains 6 missiles. Total 3.000 missiles. For reference, the latest contract for 11.000 missiles will cost the Pentagon just over $1 billion. That is, 1 rocket costs about $ 100.000. Let the export price be 2 times higher. 3000×200.000$=600 million$. For Poland, quite a lifting amount.
    Link to the official website of the manufacturer. https://news.lockheedmartin.com/lockheed-martin-awarded-1-billion-contract-for-precision-fires-all-weather-rocket#:~:text=DALLAS%2C%20Mar.,GMLRS)%20rockets %20and%20associated%20equipment.
    1. Negro
      Negro 11 June 2022 10: 45
      +3
      Quote: Beetle1991
      1 rocket costs about $100.000.


      Quote: Negro
      a container with 6 M31A1 missiles, which the British are talking about, costs $3M

      Hm. Thanks, that's interesting. I was guided by a recent Finnish contract, where one M31A cost under 500 thousand. The American military business, as always, is not easy.
      1. Beetle1991
        Beetle1991 11 June 2022 11: 50
        +1
        Hm. Thanks, that's interesting. I was guided by a recent Finnish contract, where one M31A cost under 500 thousand. The American military business, as always, is not easy.

        I have attached a translated screenshot from the website of Lockheed Martin (manufacturer), where the number of missiles and the amount of the contract are clearly indicated. Also included is a link to the site.

        These are all manufacturer's prices. Further, weapons are sold by the name of the Pentagon (US Department of Defense Agency for Military Cooperation (Defense Security Cooperation Agency - DSCA), and not by manufacturers. Sales are mainly through foreign military sales. The scheme is as follows: the Pentagon buys weapons from a manufacturer, resells it to another country via conditionally double the price.

        About a launch container with 6 missiles for 3 lyamas, this information is from Congress, I don’t remember exactly. Before concluding a deal, the Pentagon sends a notice to Congress, if within 10 or 30 days the Senate does not block the deal, then the contract can be concluded.
        But the amounts are preliminary. They are almost always very different downward compared to the stated price.
        These notifications also included the destruction of f-16s at a price of about 300 million apiece. So these notifications, that's right, let the fog go.
        In addition, the price depends on the size of the lot.

        A couple of weeks ago, Australia requested 20 himars, 150 six-shot containers (900 240mm missiles) and 10 atacms missiles and other package options, the US valued all of this at $385 million.
        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4532178.html
        https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/australia-cleared-for-purchase-of-himars-mlrs-for-545-million/
        1. Negro
          Negro 11 June 2022 12: 23
          +2
          Quote: Beetle1991
          I have attached a translated screenshot from the website of Lockheed Martin (manufacturer), where the number of missiles and the amount of the contract are clearly indicated. Also included is a link to the site.

          I have seen. I do not dispute your words. I only note that such layouts greatly change the picture. If the Hymars projectile costs less than a halffire, then this is already an interesting conversation. Excalibur and one Smerch shell are estimated at a similar amount, with the incomparable capabilities of an American product.
          1. Beetle1991
            Beetle1991 11 June 2022 12: 39
            +1
            Hellfire has a laser targeting head. Stuff is expensive.
            Excalibur is difficult to manufacture, since there are colossal overloads when fired. Electronics and rudders must withstand all these overloads.
            As for HIMARS, a very interesting thing. Simple enough for mass production. Therefore, they are really stamped like sausages. The manufacturer's website states that more than 40 thousand high-precision missiles for m-270 / himars were produced.
            Tornado-S is also an interesting thing, but there are clearly not enough of them in the troops.
            1. Negro
              Negro 11 June 2022 13: 14
              +5
              Quote: Beetle1991
              Tornado-S is also an interesting thing, but there are clearly not enough of them in the troops.

              They are not here. And on the other side, it turns out that there is a WTO available for mass use. Consequently, the picture of the WWI-style artillery offensive that we are now seeing takes place only because respected partners want to see such a picture.
              1. Beetle1991
                Beetle1991 11 June 2022 13: 50
                0
                Well, yes, in principle, we can say that there are no tornadoes in the troops.
                Since the available number of shells is clearly not for war, but only for testing. In Ukraine, only a few times lit up.
              2. Liam
                Liam 11 June 2022 15: 33
                -2
                Quote: Negro
                only because respected partners want to see such a picture.

                In your opinion ... to master the skills of shooting from Himars in conjunction with a guidance drone ... how many days / weeks / months do you need? Translation into Ukrainian of all technical documentation and interfaces of the device's electronics is very simple? Or do you think that there are thousands of artillerymen in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who are ready to land on this equipment at any moment, having figured out all the intricacies in another week. Himars is an etne Javelin that can be trained in a couple of hours. The complex itself is almost useless without integrated surveillance and reconnaissance equipment. And either you need to integrate it with the capabilities available to the Ukrainians .. or supply your own "native" and teach how to use them. pieces and not 8-air shaking. There are no trained personnel for such a number of complexes
                1. Negro
                  Negro 11 June 2022 16: 01
                  +3
                  Quote: Liam
                  These are months for anyone, at best. Therefore, there are talks why only 8 pieces and not 80 air shaking. There are no trained personnel for such a number of complexes

                  You see, in the Armed Forces of Ukraine there were under 2 crews of Tornadoes, Hurricanes and Points, which spent or lost a lot of materiel in the very first weeks. So the talk about the lack of trained crews is not entirely clear here: where can they come from if they are not trained?

                  By the way, this applies not only to missiles, but to all heavy equipment in general.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 11 June 2022 16: 26
                    -2
                    It's like transferring from Kukuruznik to F-35 approximately. How many Ukrainian gunners speak at least basic English in your opinion. I'm not talking about more complex things like tactics of use, coordination, interaction with all services, establishing lonistics, etc., etc. These two batteries are training actually. 777 also began deliveries with a trial batch of 18 pieces. And about a month later, another 100 pieces in one blow.

                    Everyone underestimates the complexity of logistics. And the real possibilities of Ukraine to quickly master large batches of completely new weapons for them. And without all this boring logistics, integration into various information and intelligence systems, 90% of the potential of the supplied complexes is lost. And Himars will turn into an ordinary Tornado / Hurricane which will shoot acres.
                    Moreover, these few pieces are not yet a lend-lease. This is a grant delivery.
                    1. Negro
                      Negro 11 June 2022 18: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: Liam
                      It's like transferring from Kukuruznik to F-35 approximately.

                      The cornbread is harder for the pilot.
                      Quote: Liam
                      How many Ukrainian gunners do you think speak at least basic English?

                      Все.
                      Quote: Liam
                      I'm not talking about more complex things like application tactics, coordination, interaction with all services, establishing lonistics, etc., etc.

                      In order to be able to do this, you need to somehow start learning it.
                      Quote: Liam
                      And without all this boring logistics, integration into various information and intelligence systems, 90% of the potential of the supplied complexes is lost.

                      Yes. Therefore, you need to clearly understand that after really massive deliveries of infantry weapons (which, of course, have done their job), the current deliveries of heavy weapons really cannot lead to a turning point - until they are introduced into the system in terms of nomenclature, logistics, training of personnel / s, interaction on intelligence level.
                      On the other hand, the delivery right now of thousands of useless M114 howitzers and a million shells for them could affect the situation much more than some Sholtsev 10 air defense systems somewhere in a year.
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 11 June 2022 19: 30
                        -2
                        Quote: Negro
                        The cornbread is harder for the pilot.

                        )))

                        Quote: Negro
                        Все.

                        I am well aware of the average level of education and intelligence of the average military in the post-Soviet space.
                        Quote: Negro
                        must be clearly understood

                        Issues are dealt with as they come up. In March / April, the main problems were amphibious assaults on Odessa, armored columns and aviation ... remember the universal cry about noflyzone, without which everything would certainly collapse within a couple of weeks. In June, all these problems were solved by appropriate supplies without much noise and dust The Black Sea Fleet has been turned into a floating port battery familiar to the Russian Federation, tank columns and jerks to Lviv are only dreamed of in the terrible dreams of the Russians themselves, and powerful aviation sometimes jumps out from behind a hill and shoots nurses from a cabling at the limber. And the Ukrainians have a coastal RCC that did not exist before the war defense and stronger air defense than before the war.

                        The high-tech of the First World War remained in the form of gnawing through the ground by concentrating about a thousand artillery systems on a few dozen kilometers of the front, which are trying to do the work for tankers and infantry and aviation. And success in the form of advancing a dozen and a half kilometers in separate areas in two months. the consumption of shells and 50/60 shots per successful hit and the corresponding wear of materiel. And this is the maximum that the Russian army can give out at the cost of concentrating almost all forces and means on a very narrow section of the front.
                        Everyone knows the logistics of this event and Kupyansk will not be very happy with the arrival of even the first Himars batteries.

                        And with the counter-battery fight, it’s already complete seams. Enough of 3 axes and 3 dozens of all kinds of Susan, Caesars and Crabs. And no one stops the supply of artillery.
                        As for a million shells ... let me remind you that in Ukraine there are no ports, airports and safe places to store anything. Everything is stored in Poland and delivered on wheels to the front line from there, without intermediate storage in Ukraine. This is not the most efficient logistics if anything. Expensive, for a long time and cannot be delivered in millions. But it nullifies all Russian attempts to disrupt logistics with hundreds of launches of expensive missile launchers at supposedly storage bases.

                        The main problems are in logistics, and not in the political desire of the West.
                      2. Negro
                        Negro 11 June 2022 21: 23
                        +2
                        Quote: Liam
                        ))

                        The penguin is incredibly difficult to manufacture and maintain, but it almost flies by itself. Moreover, judging by the statistics of the F-16 and F-35 accidents, the participation of the pilot would greatly interfere with the latter.
                        Quote: Liam
                        I am well aware of the average level of education and intelligence of the average military in the post-Soviet space.

                        You again do not distinguish between an engineer and a user. A modern young person can easily handle most products with an English-language interface after minimal training. In addition, the specifics of what is happening allows the Ukrainian side to attract high-quality personnel - a question with direct military training.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Problems are solved as they come up.

                        As you correctly pointed out, problem solving takes time.
                        Quote: Liam
                        the main problems were amphibious assaults on Odessa,

                        An amphibious assault on Odessa would be a great success for the Ukrainian side. With minimally sane actions, of course.
                        Quote: Liam
                        armored columns

                        They didn't present any problem.
                        Quote: Liam
                        aviation...

                        She was not and is not.
                        Quote: Liam
                        .remember the universal cry about noflyzone

                        Still would. I am vindictive. Senseless screams INSTEAD of reasonable and feasible tasks. Two dozen modern complexes would be enough to close half the country from at least the Kyrgyz Republic (the west of the country along the line Chervonograd - Ternopil - Kamenetsk-Podolsky, Kyiv, Odessa, the Dnieper - Zaporozhye - Krivoy Rog region). Instead, some shameful clowning.
                        Quote: Liam
                        The high-tech of the First World War remained in the form of gnawing through the earth by

                        I'll believe when I see it. Until the APU comes. I have not seen a single serious successful operation from that side. It seems that today they began to write about some kind of movement in the direction of Kherson - let's see how it ends.
                        Quote: Liam
                        And with the counter-battery fight, it’s already complete seams. Enough of 3 axes and 3 dozens of all kinds of Susan, Caesars and Crabs. And no one stops the supply of artillery.

                        This is a separate disaster. Right here
                        https://greatwarchannel.medium.com/%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9-%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA-b387ec03fbcd
                        a certain Z-patriot writes quite correctly: this is not a job. With a minimally detailed approach, there would be one howitzer and one self-propelled guns, albeit not the newest, but in large numbers. But that's not all.
                        Quote: Liam
                        The main problems are in logistics, and not in the political desire of the West.

                        The first problem is one of the many manifestations of the second. Although the second problem is aesthetic in itself - I do not like lying politicians with passion. And in essence, the troubles of Ukraine do not have to bother anyone in the world. All the help she receives is, so to speak, a gift that no one promised and that can be taken away at any moment.
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 12 June 2022 00: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: Negro
                        https://greatwarchannel.medium.com/%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9-%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA-b387ec03fbcd
                        some Z-patriot

                        My God, why don’t Z patriots write. The Ukrainian zoo is not more colorful than the Russian zoo of a couple of dozen tulips, acacias, hyacinths and other daisies. And the logistics of the Russian army have been a permanent disaster since pre-Horde times. harmless and useless is the red thread of a turbo-patriotic media party. Ryabov and Skomorokhov delight with opuses on the topic every other day.

                        I think that you are well aware of the articles of numerous other Z patriots who have a completely different opinion about the effectiveness of the Ukrainian art zoo.

                        PySy ... The passage about the overwhelming superiority of the Federal Air Transport Agency especially smiled)
                      4. Negro
                        Negro 12 June 2022 07: 42
                        +5
                        Quote: Liam
                        smiled at the passage about the overwhelming superiority of the Federal Air Transport Agency)

                        In the Slavyansk - Severodonetsk zone, it really exists, it's stupid to argue with that.
                        Quote: Liam
                        The Ukrainian zoo is not more colorful than the Russian zoo of a couple dozen tulips, acacias, hyacinths and other daisies

                        If the Armed Forces of Ukraine are guided by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in this regard, then this is a fiasco, bro.
                        Quote: Liam
                        My God, you are mine .. why don't Z patriots write.

                        Anyone can write a case from time to time.
                      5. Liam
                        Liam 12 June 2022 08: 16
                        -2
                        Quote: Negro

                        In the Slavyansk-Severodonetsk zone, it really exists, it’s stupid to argue with that

                        Only this has nothing to do with logistics, delivery, repair and maintenance, which is discussed in the article. Yes, and the counter-battery fight takes place from positions one and a half to two dozen kilometers from the LBS, where Russian aviation does not risk flying.
                        The article is dated April 25. At that time, optimism about the overwhelming superiority of the Federal Air Transport Agency and how they would disrupt deliveries with it was still in the minds of Z patriots. The reality turned out to be much harsher.
                        Quote: Negro
                        If the APU

                        The Armed Forces of Ukraine are not up to frills at the moment. And for any level of the problem, it must be assessed by comparing with counterparties on the other side of the front and not with an ideal situation in theory.
                        Quote: Negro
                        write a case.

                        It depends how you look at it. In theory, of course, complete unification based on 2-3 types is better. In real life ... and who and how quickly can ensure the supply of only these 2/3 systems in the right quantities? A real Caesar on the battlefield is by any means better than a paper Paladin in a warehouse in Nevada.
                        By the way ... what are the difficulties with the repair of Svzanna and they would not have been with the repair of a unified conditional Paladin in Ukrainian conditions? In Ukraine, there are no safe places and technological capabilities for repairing either one or the other. And for any serious repairs, they would have to be dragged to Poland, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, as they are now. What is unified and what is not unified.
                        As for the cost of maintenance. Train staff For the Susan division or another system, there is no difference either way. The difficulties are the same
                      6. Negro
                        Negro 12 June 2022 09: 10
                        +3
                        Quote: Liam
                        The article is dated April 25. At that time, optimism about the overwhelming superiority of the Federal Air Transport Agency and how they would disrupt deliveries with it was still in the minds of Z patriots. The reality turned out to be much harsher.

                        Just in April, the unjustified optimism of the Ukrainian side was felt. In May, it became clear that if the Russian side can only attack in the WWI style, then the Ukrainian side cannot attack at all.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Yes, and the counter-battery fight takes place from positions one and a half to two dozen kilometers from the LBS

                        Not yet. Really long-range shells and long-range systems are found in a single quantity. Of the 777, there will be no counter-battery firing 20 km from the LBS.
                        Quote: Liam
                        And for any level of the problem, it is necessary to evaluate by comparing with counterparties on the other side of the front and not with the ideal situation in theory.

                        With what fright is it necessary to compare anything with the insane Soviet army? You compare the consumption of shells with her, in this she is at an acceptable level. By the way, about the logistics of the parties.
                        Quote: Liam
                        It depends how you look at it. In theory, of course, complete unification based on 2-3 types is better. In real life ... and who and how quickly can ensure the supply of only these 2/3 systems in the right quantities? A real Caesar on the battlefield is by any means better than a paper Paladin in a warehouse in Nevada.

                        That's it, "who and how." If we are talking about the rearmament of a large army, then we need a coordinated supply of vehicles available in quantities of at least a thousand units. The Armed Forces of Ukraine had roughly 500 towed systems and 500 self-propelled guns of various types, that is, you need to take somewhere 500 at once and a reserve for losses.
                        Of the self-propelled guns, this is only the M109. A lot of them were made and a lot were removed from service in the 90s-2000s, probably not all of them have been sawn yet. Of course, I would like a modern large-scale machine, but there is only K-9 in really large quantities, it is unlikely that the Koreans will subscribe to this. As for towed guns (they should actually be replaced by wheeled self-propelled guns, but this had to be thought before), the only modern towed system is the Turkish Panther, but it is available in a couple of hundred pieces. Only two systems are available with more than 1000 units: Roosevelt-era M114 (but with modern ammunition and electronics upgrades) and again the Korean KH179. However, if you do not fetishize the number 1000, then in the number of many hundreds there are several systems from the Cold War era, including the American M198. You need to think, check the availability and choose one. Of course, the M777 is also a very massive weapon, but this is just a set-up from the Americans - it makes no sense to re-equip the Armed Forces of Ukraine with an absurdly expensive system, the advantages of this gun of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not needed, so you will have to return it as a drink.
                        Quote: Liam
                        By the way ... what are the difficulties with the repair of Svzanna and they would not have been with the repair of a unified conditional Paladin in Ukrainian conditions? There are no safe places and technological possibilities in Ukraine to repair either one or the other

                        Suzanna/Dana is just better than the M109 - it is in service with Poland, that is, there is a rear for it there, and it uses the Tatra commercial chassis, which, by the way, is partly familiar to Ukrainian mechanics. However, the problem is that they are LITTLE - hundreds of cars are needed, and Suzanne produced less than 70, if I'm not mistaken.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Train personnel For the Susan division or another system - there is no difference either way. The difficulties are the same

                        But to train personnel on 10 systems of different types - there is a difference and other difficulties.
                      7. Liam
                        Liam 12 June 2022 09: 37
                        -3
                        The reality is that there is no one type of weapon in the world that can cover the needs of Ukrainians. No one in the West keeps artillery in such quantities. is a spherical cavalry.
                        And if criticism of the hodgepodge from writers in whose army such unification is present would still be understandable, then such criticism from the lips of Z Patriots, who have at least no better situation with the hodgepodge and logistics, sounds stupid. Moreover, this is not the result of a military emergency like at the APU wise planning.

                        Quote: Negro
                        unjustified optimism of the Ukrainian side

                        Now they are paying. They stepped on the same rake as the counterparties.
                        Quote: Negro
                        to train personnel on 10 systems of different types - there is a difference and other difficulties.

                        I don’t see much difference. Slovaks teach "saoih", Germans and French, their own, and so on.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Of the 777, there will be no counter-battery firing 20 km from the LBS.

                        Come on ... The bulk of the rosartillery, in order to achieve at least some acceptable results in terms of efficiency and accuracy, works 5-10 km from the front line. The range of 777 is more than enough for an anti-battery
                      8. Negro
                        Negro 12 June 2022 10: 27
                        +2
                        Quote: Liam
                        The reality is that there is no one type of gun in the world that can cover the needs of Ukrainians. No one in the West keeps artillery in such quantities.

                        Well, hello, we've arrived. Who did I write this sheet for? The West has a LOT of artillery and the consumption of shells according to NATO standards is quite realistic - 200 shells per barrel per day at 155mm, 100 per day for MLRS. Now the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot even dream of such a thing.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Moreover, for them this is not the result of a military emergency like the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but wise planning.

                        If you haven’t understood yet, I don’t intend to compare anything with the RF Armed Forces.
                        Quote: Liam
                        I don’t see much difference. Slovaks teach "saoih", Germans and French, their own, and so on.

                        No need to compete in stupidity with the patriots. The Germans did not send a car, the French had a fuel filter on their Renault Sherpa that had to be taken to France, because no one outside of France had ever seen this Sherpa, the Slovaks 152 mm ran out of shells, and the Slovaks 155 mm 8 pieces for the whole front.
                        Quote: Liam
                        The bulk of the rosartillery, in order to achieve at least some acceptable results in terms of efficiency and accuracy, works 5-10 km from the front line. The range of 777 is more than enough for an anti-battery

                        The range of the M777, even with a NATO active-rocket projectile, is the same as that of Hyacinth. To have superior range you need Excaliburs and/or 155/52 systems. Excaliburs, they say, were delivered only by Canadians in small quantities, and 155/52 systems are only Caesars (until the Poles arrived). By the way, I have not heard that the 2000s were seen at the front, at least Dutch ones.

                        Again. It seems that the last months should have taught that one should talk about the incompetence of the enemy after the victory, and not before.
                        And yet, rule ten: you should not rant about the worthlessness of the enemy after he managed to thwart your plans
                      9. Liam
                        Liam 12 June 2022 11: 52
                        -3
                        Quote: Negro
                        The West has a LOT of artillery

                        Name a country right off the bat that can quickly ensure the unification of Ukrainian artillery without a critical decrease in its own combat capability. How many are there according to your calculations .. 500 of the same type of howitzers + 500 of the same type of self-propelled guns). And ensure the logistics of this fun.
                        Quote: Negro
                        I do not intend to compare anything with the RF Armed Forces.

                        And with whom, forgive the war, the Armed Forces of Ukraine is waging a war? We're talking about the real world like and not about the Martians.

                        Quote: Negro
                        The Germans did not send a car

                        I'm talking about training. And training for German vehicles is in full swing and does not interfere with the training of other groups for other types of weapons from other countries.

                        Quote: Negro
                        fuel filter to be brought to France,

                        Are you sure that the French are so stupid that they did not provide for the supply of consumables at the base in Poland, like the Americans for 777? And how much will it actually take to deliver something by plane from Paris to Poland? Much slower than from Nizhny Tagil or Chelyabinsk to Belgorod?
                        Quote: Negro
                        No need to compete in stupidity

                        That's it.
                        Quote: Negro
                        at Hyacinth

                        And how many of these Hyacinths are in the Russian Army and what types of guns are the lion's share?
                        Quote: Negro
                        adversary incompetence

                        It's not about incompetence, but about the realities of the war there. And you need to proceed from these realities and not from spherical theorems about an ideal world
                      10. Negro
                        Negro 12 June 2022 13: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: Liam
                        Name a country right off the bat that can quickly ensure the unification of Ukrainian artillery without a critical decrease in its own combat capability. How many are there according to your calculations .. 500 of the same type of howitzers + 500 of the same type of self-propelled guns)

                        I've already named two of you, if you haven't noticed. In addition to the United States and South Korea, Turkey, Pakistan and Israel alone could completely or almost completely replace Ukrainian artillery. In the case of the United States, South Korea and Israel, this will not affect their combat capability in any way, for Turkey and Pakistan to a small extent.
                        Quote: Liam
                        And to provide the logistics of this fun.

                        What do you understand by logistics? NATO shells fit all 155mm guns since 1942, and maintenance of 500 identical self-propelled guns is, by definition, easier than 500 different self-propelled guns.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Who do you forgive

                        When they start comparing you with the RF Armed Forces, this is a disaster.
                        Quote: Liam
                        I'm talking about training

                        That is, Scholz not only did not give a car, but also took several dozen of the most intelligent specialists from the front for six months? Well done.
                        Quote: Liam
                        And how much will it actually take to deliver something by plane from Paris to Poland? Much slower than from Nizhny Tagil or Chelyabinsk to Belgorod?

                        I DON'T
                        DISCUSSING
                        PROBLEMS
                        RUSSIAN
                        ARMY
                        Yes, exotic chassis is bad. That's why Czechoslovak cars are good because the Tatra is more or less known in Eastern Europe. Similar to Acher based on a Volvo construction truck, by the way.
                        Quote: Liam
                        And how many of these Hyacinths are in the Russian Army and what types of guns are the lion's share?

                        Hyacinths are now massively removed from storage, including for the transfer of LDNR, and in the Armed Forces the main Msta system, self-propelled and towed. If escaliburs were not delivered to 777, then in terms of the range of the system of one class: 20-30 km, depending on the projectile
                      11. Liam
                        Liam 12 June 2022 15: 06
                        -2
                        Quote: Negro
                        I have already named two

                        These are theoretical arguments. Neither Turkey, nor the South Caucasus, nor Israel, nor, God forgive me, Pakistan do not supply and do not intend to supply even one nut from their artillery to Ukraine, let alone 500 + 500 howitzers.
                        As for the US, these numbers are half of everything they have, if anything.
                        There is nothing in the world on the move on such a scale. Real
                        Quote: Negro
                        The aircraft is the main Msta system, self-propelled and towed.

                        These same Mstas in reality shoot from 5-7 km from the front line. Despite the passport performance characteristics
                      12. Negro
                        Negro 12 June 2022 16: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: Liam
                        These same Mstas in reality shoot from 5-7 km from the front line. Despite the passport performance characteristics

                        I see no point in discussing casual. Or we are talking about the possibilities of technology, or how it is used - but here we will slide down to individual cases. APU is also not kissed by God, to put it mildly.
                        Quote: Liam
                        These are theoretical considerations.

                        You asked where in one place you can find several hundred 155mm guns - I listed them. By the way, I forgot Egypt, the Saudis and Taiwan, also great artillery powers.
                        Quote: Liam
                        As for the US, these numbers are half of everything they have, if anything.
                        There is nothing in the world on the move on such a scale. Real

                        Did you look good in storage? And the allies? Europe alone in the 90s withdrew about 1000 vehicles from service. That's who, and the US Army will survive the transfer of 500 self-propelled guns right now without any problems.
                        Quote: Liam
                        and Turkey, neither the South Caucasus, nor Israel, nor God forgive Pakistan do not supply and do not intend to supply even one nut from their artillery to Ukraine, let alone 500 + 500 howitzers.

                        It depends who is talking to them and about what. Even Ukraine could afford to buy several hundred M51Ts from the times of the Korean War (but modernized in the 90s) and M114s from the times of the Second World War (but with a screwed-on modern FCS) from Turkey, if it took care of it in time. In the 2000s, Turkey itself was re-equipped with modern 155/52 systems towed by Panter and self-propelled guns T-155 Fırtına, and no one really needs this rubbish. Right now, the same Koreans will not understand a request from Ukraine, but they will completely understand from the USA, the EU or NATO - they have these obsolete weapons in reserve, and the K9 / A1 Thunder mentioned in combat units.

                        So the question is what respected partners want - to help Ukraine or to pretend that they are helping. It’s not even “God on you, that I’m not worth it” - according to the mind, Joe would have given these 100 M777 to his own National Guard, but instead brought 400 old M198s, which have not been used in linear units for a long time.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. rodenerg
    rodenerg 12 July 2022 15: 29
    0
    Hello! I must say right away that I am not a military man, but I am engaged in science and technology. It is rather interesting for me to come up with / think about methods of countering HIMARs. There is an opportunity to invest in a small R & D and then transfer it to the Ministry of Defense. I would like to find specialized (more or less) specialists here with whom I can discuss my ideas (naturally, immediately a request to any real employees of the military research institutes involved in this issue DO NOT ANSWER ANYTHING, but I hope that job descriptions forbid such people even now on the Internet and give out their location).

    So, here are the ideas on the list:
    1. Strong electromagnetic pulses that would disable the GPS guidance of "smart" missiles in HIMARS. As far as I understand, the launchers themselves do not represent any particularly great value, and it is these missiles that are of interest.

    2. Since the United States has begun to talk about the use of balloons against Russian "daggers", I think that in general there is logic in this - I thought about it myself. Either mesh-reinforced balloons (to mechanically delay), or generally mesh-reinforced inflatable structures. Moreover, it is possible to fill with non-combustible gases (for example, a mixture of nitrogen and helium).

    3. Laser air defense - which would accurately destroy the target, or, due to a small scattering of the laser beam, would heat it up to a temperature sufficient to disable the GPS guidance sensors. Dispersion would also make it possible to increase the area of ​​​​damage.
    1. rodenerg
      rodenerg 20 July 2022 08: 15
      0
      Is anybody here?
  21. Sergey Nikiforov
    Sergey Nikiforov 13 August 2022 14: 47
    0
    Yes, what to look for, there the Moscow Region declared about one more sennya destroyed. In the course of 10, a couple more weeks and we will kill everyone
  22. Oberleutnant
    Oberleutnant 20 August 2022 11: 54
    0
    You are right Roman. The West has overinflated everything around its superweapons. Wunderwaffe waited until May 1945. And they are waiting today. They will wait.