MiG-35: flies into history as unnecessary

In fact, two years ago, I already wondered whether our Aerospace Forces / Air Force needed the MiG-35. We can say that the answer is received: it is not needed. At all. And six copies of the aircraft that were released will simply go to the dump after some time. stories. Therefore, this material will become a kind of obituary for this very promising machine, in fact, the crowning achievement of RAC MiG JSC.

In general, the number of the car itself was unlucky. There were so many projects with such a name that when you look at the list, you understand: it’s not good.

The name MiG-35 was once worn by:
- project of the fifth generation multifunctional fighter MiG 1.44;
- prototypes of the MiG-29M and MiG-29K with the Zhuk-A radar;
- a fighter project for the Indian competition MMRCA;
- a project for the development of MiG-29K/KUB aircraft for the Navy;
- a development project for the MiG-29M2, which became the MiG-35 in the single-seat version, and the MiG-35D in the double-seat version.

To say that the MiG-35 is a modification of the MiG-29, a knowledgeable person will not turn his tongue. Yes, this is a development of the model, but it is so radical that in reality it is a different aircraft. Although the MiG-35 took the most useful from its predecessor: low cost of operation, unpretentiousness and the ability to land on unpaved strips.

There are many more differences from the MiG-29:
- fuselage, single for single and double modifications;
- a new wing of a larger area and with more advanced mechanization;
- a large area of ​​​​stabilizers;
- Radar "Zhuk-A" with an active phased antenna array in the configuration for the Indian Air Force, for the Russian Aerospace Forces a cheaper version of the Zhuk-M radar with a conventional SCAR or (not confirmed, planned with Zhuk-AM)
- a defense complex with electronic warfare equipment, detectors of attacking missiles and laser irradiation, decoy launchers;
- open architecture avionics;
- optical-location station and helmet-mounted target designation and aiming system;
- reduced radar visibility;
- new electronic engine control system RD-33MK;
- three-channel electric remote control system;
- increased fuel supply, the possibility of refueling in the air;
- the possibility of using the MiG-35 as a tanker in the air.

And this is not all that the MiG-35 was “rich in”. But alas, the plane did not "fall into the yard." And the reason for this was not some shortcomings of the MiG-35, the elementary corporate battles under the carpets and on the bath fields were to blame.

In the battle between Mikoyan and Gurevich and Sukhoi, the Sukhoi firm won. In general, of course, it is good that Sukhoi Company is doing very well. Fighters, bombers, passenger liners... AO MiG has virtually no place left on the market.

Today, Su fighters and bombers make up the bulk of the Russian Aerospace Forces. The question is how good it is. Will heavy Su fighters be able to solve all the tasks that modern air combat will pose?

In general, Su and MiG were compared very often. Specifically, the Su-35 and MiG-35 were dismantled "by the bones."

The MiG-35 is capable of fighting on equal terms with all existing vehicles of a potential enemy. Yes, "4++" is almost "5", but almost. However, the MiG-35 has an undeniable advantage: light weight and excellent maneuverability.

Weight 27,5 tons. Speed ​​2600 km/h, flight range with load - 3 km. Combat radius - 000 km. The rate of climb is one of the best in the world - 1000 m/s. Radars are able to see a target at a distance of 330-200 km. Combat load - 250 tons. 7 mm gun GSh-30-30, 1 hardpoints for rockets, bombs, mines.

The Su-35 differs precisely in how a heavy fighter should differ from a light one. Weight 34,5 tons. The speed is the same 2500 km / h as the MiG-35. Flight range - 3 km. Combat radius - 500 km. Rate of climb 1 m/s. Radars detect a target from a distance of 800 km. Combat load 280 tons. Gun GSh-400-8, made the same missiles as the MiG-30. Electronic warfare equipment, the Irbis radar is an order of magnitude more powerful, plus an optical-location station.

In principle, almost identical aircraft capable of solving the same tasks. Gain air superiority, strike at ground and surface targets. The combat load of the "thirty-fifths" is almost the same, respectively, the tasks that aircraft can solve with its help, too.

The Su-35 "sees" further than the MiG, but the MiG is significantly cheaper. In the case of combat use, light fighters of the MiG-35 type are more profitable. They do not cause such financial damage in case of loss, their failure is easier and faster to compensate. And if both fighters, light and heavy, can cope with the task with the same efficiency, then it is better to take the light and cheap MiG into the sky than the expensive Su.

It has been said more than once that the MiG is an air war worker. By the way, the conflict in Ukraine showed this. The light fighter is the best vehicle for fighting at close range and at high speeds. The MiG-35 is slightly smaller than the Su-35, carries slightly less weapons, but thanks to this it is slightly faster and more maneuverable.

Yes, in terms of radio electronics, target detection, the MiG is inferior to the Su. But for this "Su" pays much more takeoff weight.

The aircraft are similar in functionality, although they belong to different classes. A light fighter can be used where it would be simply unprofitable to use a heavy one: to shoot down a reconnaissance drone at high altitude, it is not necessary to use an expensive air defense missile for this. And why raise something that is more expensive to maintain and operate, if a cheaper aircraft can solve the same problem?

The MiG-35 is a close range fighter for maximum effect at minimum cost.

The Su-35 is still an expensive fighter, mainly intended for defense or attack at long range.

And here, defending the MiG-35, I want to bring the balance to the US Air Force. Our potential ones are armed with about 450 F-15 units of all modifications. What is an F-15? This is an all-weather fighter-bomber capable of solving approximately the same range of tasks as the Su-35.

But the F-16, which is just a light fighter, in the US Air Force, there are more than 1000 units. And in general, the universal and cheap "Falcon". Capable of carrying 9-10 tons of weapons at a range of 1 km, it is the most popular aircraft in the world. At least, that's what they think in 800 countries, which are armed with this aircraft.

The MiG-35 is in no way inferior to the F-16, and in terms of speed, rate of climb and maneuver it surpasses the American. The Su-35 can rely on earlier detection and longer-range missiles. But this is not the way to solve all problems. The heavy and not very maneuverable R-37 can be evaded, that's a fact.

It's a pity, but our Ministry of Defense does not understand that both the MiG-35 and the Su-35 should be produced. Simply because these aircraft are capable of solving different combat missions in different ways. But alas, in our country, the ability to solve all problems behind the scenes is of greater importance, and therefore RSK MiG will be left without orders. And the MiG-35 will go down in history, as many other aircraft have gone.

Not sure if this is the right way. Yes, and it is, in principle, actually over.

Artem Mikoyan, the founder of the Design Bureau, which created many MiGs, was a very mediocre aircraft designer and simply an incomparable organizer.

Family ties, government and administrative resources, all this allowed Artem Ovanesovich to build an entire empire, which became the "RSK MiG", which gave the world such outstanding aircraft as the MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-21, MiG-25, MiG-31 and MiG-29.

But after the death of Mikoyan in 1970, the decline of the MiG began. Followers of Mikoyan outright lost the duel with representatives of the Sukhoi company, led by an evil genius aviation Mikhail Pogosyan.

By the way, few people know, but the last six general directors of RSK MiG JSC were from JSC Sukhoi Company or JSC Irkut. That is, direct competitors.

The result is layoffs. Frame loss. Practical stop experimental design work.

Even the KLA, which includes MiG, admitted that the corporation today has actually lost its importance as an independent developer of aviation equipment and has been exclusively engaged in the modernization of the MiG-15 and MiG-29 families for the past 31 years. There is no strength or opportunity for more.

At the same time, it is believed that the potential for upgrading the MiG-29 is practically exhausted. That is, further modernization does not make any financial or industrial sense. And therefore, the production of the MiG-29K will be curtailed as unnecessary, after the fulfillment of the contract with Egypt, the production of the MiG-29M2 will be curtailed, and the maintenance of the MiG-31, MiG-29K and MiG-29SMT will be given to a group from the Sukhoi company.

And on this it will be possible to say the last “sorry” to the MiG company, which has done so much to ensure that we have a clear and calm sky above us.

And the last representative created by this company, the MiG-35, will go into oblivion just like the entire company that created it.

Truly, the last flight in history.

Comments

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

***
"There is only a MiG between the past and the future"...
***

[Borik]

A good fighter, it’s a pity that due to corporate intrigues, the MIG company was pushed into the shadows and 35 did not go into production.

[Civil]

1. The fighter was frankly late with the release ... especially for the Indian tender.
2. There is no money for 2 firms.

[Fisherman]

The USSR did not just keep two competitors at once. About money - they blew 300 yards instead of civil aviation and military, military and civilian fleets. Financial gnomes - just pests, instead of developing the country in terms of gross output - accumulated cut paper and numbers in exchange for our resources.

[Yarik]

"About money - 300 yards blew * - They continue to do it successfully. Look at what laws they pass. 1. All information about the movement of the country's gold and foreign exchange reserves is now classified. 2. It is allowed not to return 100% of foreign exchange earnings back to the country. ... And they laid down on the fact that the country needed to be raised, how they sucked everything that was possible out of it and continue.

[sh3roman]

A few yachts from the oligarchs + a few more nishtyakov, and enough for another 20 firms. But their money is something else...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: sh3roman

the oligarchs have a few yachts + a few more nishtyakov, and enough for another 20 firms. But their money is different...

Now think about who will develop production and build factories if all income is confiscated from him?

[Titus_2]

And imagine that you will be driven into debt and deprived of work. That they are strongly developing production ..... for the most part, the Soviet ones are eating up.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Civil

1. The fighter was frankly late with the release ... especially for the Indian tender.
2. There is no money for 2 firms.

3. If you get a checkmate, then the moment will definitely be lost. The question, of course, is whether

[Civil]

Quote: Vol4ara

3. If you get a checkmate, then the moment will definitely be lost. The question, of course, is whether

If a...

[Yarik]

It is clear that it will NOT work. Until 2014, it might have worked out, but now NO

[Photon]

Even during World War II there were several design bureaus. Monopoly is the path to decay

[Torins]

The same thing happened with the MiG Design Bureau as with the Polikarpov Design Bureau. And if you remember that it was Mikoyan who sat down the great designer, then you can safely talk about karma.

[Sedoy]

No money for 2 companies

yes, in this Russia there is never money ... "but you hold on" ... :)
how to export capital over the hill - so where does everything come from ...
300 ohuliards of gold and foreign exchange and 600 NWF were lying dead weight in the west until they were taken away ... :)
excellent sabotage of the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance ...
and also all assets + private capital = trillions of dollars there
there is money for drunk centers ...
for the payment of% to those who robbed us - there is ...
they only have no money for Russia and its people ...

[barbos]

No money for 2 companies

I remember when the very first sanctions were introduced in 2014. According to the Supreme Commander himself, several calls to enterprises and several billion dollars were found. The retelling is not verbatim, but the plot can be found on the Internet.
If necessary, they will find money for three firms.

[Viktor Sergeev]

I hesitate to ask: why is it needed? In a battle against a heavy fighter, it is useless, the weapon is frankly weak, like a bomber it is the same nothing, while not much cheaper. To have several machines means to scatter forces on the training of pilots, to worsen logistics, supplies, and repairs.

[Flooding]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I hesitate to ask: why is it needed? Useless in combat against a heavy fighter

MiG-35
maximum take-off weight: 24 500 kg

General Dynamics F-16
maximum take-off weight: 21 772 kg

Saab JAS 39 Gripen
maximum take-off weight: 14 000 kg

Eurofighter Typhoon
maximum take-off weight: 23500 kg

Dassault Rafalle
maximum take-off weight: 24 500 kg

Everything is relative.

[Comrade I]

You still need to compare the payload, not the take-off weight.
And with a payload, the 35th is doing worse than its competitors. Although not catastrophic, but enough.

[Flooding]

Quote: Comrade Y

You still need to compare the payload, not the take-off weight.

To determine the comparative effectiveness - yes.
And rather, not even just a payload, but the ratio of the payload to the total mass.

But in the context of the question raised ("against heavy fighter useless"), you must first define the terms.

[Comrade I]

Or did you have some irony about the "heaviness" of the "light" 35th?

[Flooding]

Quote: Comrade Y

Or did you have some irony about the "heaviness" of the "light" 35th?

Those are conventions.
Once upon a time, heavy tanks weighed less than 30 tons.
Therefore, to be ironic about relative concepts is an unpromising exercise.
The MiG-35 is quite a classmate in the weight category of modern Western fighters.

[dauria]

But in the context of the question raised ("useless against a heavy fighter"), you must first define the terms.

It is high time . The Americans did not have a "fixed idea" in the mid-seventies light heavy. It was completely different. The Senate went berserk over the cost of the F-15. And the question arose expensive - cheap. And there was wild competition between the YF-17 (the future F-18) and the F-16 (then called "Condor"). One engine and a relatively primitive (even against the MiG-23ML) REO made a meager price. The machine won the tender cheap, not as easy.

[Boratsagdiev]

You just need to look "back in time" when the 29th was being developed.
He was supposed to be a consumable machine for "dog dumps".
It was as simple as boots and inexpensive.
And he got fat, well, it will adapt to new requests for the sake of it.

[Zhan]

Again, increase the load, loss of maneuverability, speed. The rate of climb is 330 m / s, Do you think the 35th will do this with a lot of weight? It was developed as a front-line soldier of close maneuverable combat. On the turn, our moments furnished everyone. question of its application.

[Technical engineer]

Anything can be compared. For example, thrust-to-weight ratio. For example, the F-16Blok52 has less than 1,0 even in the air combat vehicle configuration. And believe me, for a fighter, this is more important than the mass of the combat load. Well, there are two approaches to calculating the maximum load mass. In Russia, as in the USSR, it is calculated taking into account the full refueling of tanks, in the USA and probably Europe, partly due to a decrease in the amount of fuel. In general, there are a lot of interesting things in terms of who measures how. For example, the resource of the engine is at the stand, in the USA the engine is threshing at nominal, and in our country it is customary to simulate a real flight, i.e. periodically tear it with take-off mode, and some with reverse. Hence the resource difference in hours. For armor and armor penetration. In the USA, homogeneous sheets are used (as a standard for armor), while we have high hardness. Therefore, American 1500mm correspond to our 1150mm. Well, this is generally a topic for a separate article.

[Viktor Sergeev]

You compare with light cars. None of the above machines is the main one where there are heavy machines. Light fighters are more like machines for the poor, ersatz, you can’t hang heavy weapons or bombs on it, or put a powerful radar, it will always lose.

[engineer74]

Quote: Flood

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I hesitate to ask: why is it needed? Useless in combat against a heavy fighter

MiG-35
maximum take-off weight: 24 500 kg

General Dynamics F-16
maximum take-off weight: 21 772 kg

Saab JAS 39 Gripen
maximum take-off weight: 14 000 kg

Eurofighter Typhoon
maximum take-off weight: 23500 kg

Dassault Rafalle
maximum take-off weight: 24 500 kg

Everything is relative.

Of the entire list, only the MiG-2 has 35 engines, respectively, its combat load is lower, the price is significantly higher.
"Chess" (Su-75) looks much better in this sense! It remains to wait
IMHO

[Grits]

Quote: engineer74

Of the entire list, only the MiG-2 has 35 engines, respectively, its combat load is lower, the price is significantly higher.

I think that it was 2 engines that put an end to the MIG-35. It turned out that it is not so easy, but quite a "medium". And the cost is only slightly less than Drying. If the MIG company had developed a really light single-engine fighter, then, I am sure, they would have grabbed it precisely because of its cost. But the designers were inexorable - only 2 engines. Indeed, with one engine, he would never have caught up with the characteristics of his Western "brothers"

[JD1979]

Quote: Gritsa

. But the designers were inexorable - only 2 engines. Indeed, with one engine, he would never have caught up with the characteristics of his Western "brothers"

It was not the designers who were inexorable, but the cap-bearers with their own requirements for reliability: such as one failed, but will fly on the second. Well, yes, the second point - there was nothing similar in terms of reliability and resource to the Falcon engine at that time, just as now there is no analogue of the f30 engine (until ed. 35 is finished).

[nuguma20051980]

Actually, almost all twin-engine engines are represented here except for the F-16 and the flu

[cat Rusich]

Quote: engineer74

"Chess" (Su-75) looks much better in this sense! It remains to wait
IMHO

Just rename the Su-75 to... - MiG-75 and give its production and refinement to factories and MiG design bureaus.
Checkmate...

[Hall_2001]

The plan is chic, I do not argue.
The main question is whether the company has lost its competence? We want the result, not the process. (I close my eyes with my palm) It would be chic if it happened, and the Migovites quickly brought him to the desired condition

[merkava-2bet]

I have also been waiting for Armata and Kurganets, for 8 long years now.

[Alexander Vorontsov]

Does Rafale have 1 engine?

[mister-red]

Quote: engineer74

Quote: Flood

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I hesitate to ask: why is it needed? Useless in combat against a heavy fighter

MiG-35
maximum take-off weight: 24 500 kg

General Dynamics F-16
maximum take-off weight: 21 772 kg

Saab JAS 39 Gripen
maximum take-off weight: 14 000 kg

Eurofighter Typhoon
maximum take-off weight: 23500 kg

Dassault Rafalle
maximum take-off weight: 24 500 kg

Everything is relative.

Of the entire list, only the MiG-2 has 35 engines, respectively, its combat load is lower, the price is significantly higher.
"Chess" (Su-75) looks much better in this sense! It remains to wait
IMHO

Dassault Rafale also has 2 engines

[3danimal]

Mig is inferior to Rafal, Eurofighter and F-16 of the latest modifications in combat out of sight (BVR). Which is the priority right now.
Where is the serial AFAR radar? Where is the shielding of the engine compressor blades by the design of the air intakes and, as a result, the reduction in EPR?

[Hippo]

The "take-off mass" table is interesting, it remains to compare the RD-33MK engines with aircraft engines from the "ergonomics" table.
C GE 414, SNECMA 88-2 ///

[Alexfly]

And in battle, the MIG is more likely to meet with the F-16 than with a heavier fighter ...

[Viking1966]

So it is, but the lack of competition leads to stagnation in work. After all, the principle: "No matter how much it costs and how bad it would not be, but there is still no other, then they will buy" - no one has canceled. But, if this still somehow works in the automotive industry, then it does not work in high-tech industries such as aircraft manufacturing. Everything will end with the fact that we will lag behind the leading countries of the world as we lag behind in drones. Now we're chasing.

[Vadimbarsuk]

Even the author of that video admitted that this is a video from DCS

[ocean969]

Have you read the article?

[bayard]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

In a battle against a heavy fighter, it is useless, the weapon is frankly weak, like a bomber it’s the same nothing, while not much cheaper

And what kind of foreign HEAVY fighter are you considering a fight with? With F-15?
And how will he lose the Needle?
In terms of speed, thrust-to-weight ratio, rate of climb, he will give him a head start. Maneuverability?
Here the superiority of the MiG-35 is absolute.
Armament?
Similarly!
The RVVSD that we have, that they have the same characteristics, is in no way inferior to the MiG-35 radar.
Or do you have some other heavy fighter in mind?
But any others (Chinese clones of the Su-27 and export versions of the Su-30) are definitely not superior in terms of the quality of weapons and avionics.
Payload ?
Yes, almost the same! Moreover, fighters never take a full load, and under normal load they take no more than 50% of the declared maximum, or even less.
He has 10 suspension units, so he can take at least 10 missiles. This is more than enough for air combat and ground strikes.
In terms of the composition of weapons, it is no different from any heavy fighter, in terms of the detection range of an enemy fighter - also, in terms of combat radius and range - it is practically equal to all foreigners. Yes, and there are few heavy fighters in the world for him to fight, more and more light ones.
Price?
1,5 times cheaper than the Su-35.
Approximately the same times the life cycle and the cost of operation are cheaper.
Able to take off from unpaved strips and sections of roads.
The run / run is very small, therefore, it can take off from destroyed lanes, from taxiing.
And one more important plus - when they are launched into a series, the manufacturer will be able to supply 36 fighters a year, where the production line has long been ready. And now - during a war that can both expand and last for a long time, losses must be compensated for by the supply of new aircraft. And here both the pace of production of new aircraft and the total number of possible deliveries per year are already important. And 36 excellent fighters will definitely not be superfluous.
They crossed his path with the announcement of a new "wunderwaffle" in the form of the Su-75. But the chicken is still in the nest, and the plane is in a dream. How much will it be brought / tested / put on the wing?
Ten years!
And what should the VKS do for these 10 years?
Without a light, inexpensive fighter, unpretentious to basing conditions?
After all, not every theater of operations needs heavy fighters. Sometimes they are simply redundant, and often simply irrational.
And if the Su-75 fails?
Well, does this happen?
And what to do?
Leave
Videoconferencing without a light fighter at all?
In the context of a military conflict with the prerequisites for expanding it?
I would put such lobbyists against the wall for sabotage - according to the laws of war.

[alexmach]

Hello

according to the detection range of an enemy fighter - also

Well, how can it not differ in detection range with an outdated radar then?

Price?
1,5 times cheaper than the Su-35.

Here again the question is, but with what kind of filling? If the modern one is very vryatli.

They crossed his path with the announcement of a new "wunderwaffle" in the form of the Su-75. But the chicken is still in the nest, and the plane is in a dream. How much will it be brought / tested / put on the wing?
Ten years!

Well, let's hope that in fact there is not more than 10 years. That having developments on the Su-57, things will go faster. If it goes well at all.

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

Hello

Quote: alexmach

Well, how can it not differ in detection range with an outdated radar then?

The readiness of his (created for him) new AFAR radar was reported either in the past, or the year before. And it was with this radar that it was offered to the Indians.
Is the new radar more expensive than the old slot?
Obviously . But at the same time, the possibilities are seriously expanding. I don’t know why the author repeated the heresy that the MiG-35 with a slot was planned in the Russian Aerospace Forces, and only for export with AFAR? in 280 m1, if memory has not changed) just allow the MiG-2 to engage in battle with any enemy fighter. And even though it will cost more with such a BRLC, a significantly lower cost of operation will allow the Aerospace Forces to get back into service a front-line fighter, unpretentious in terms of basing in the front-line zone, light, maneuverable, multifunctional.
And those wishing to buy it would immediately appear.
And I will repeat the main thesis on the topic of the day - today the Russian Federation is in a conflict that will not end soon. It will not end even after the complete liberation of the former Ukraine from fascism, this is all for a long time - the confrontation with the collective West. And there is no time for buildup, unhurried rearmament, everything needs to be done quickly and right now.
What to do ?
Sharply increase the number of combat fighters and attack aircraft.
And of course, against the background of only heavy fighters in the VKS, preference in new purchases should be given to light fighters in order to balance the composition of the VKS.
The MiG-35 is already ready for serial production today, there are production facilities, cooperation (more or less) has been debugged, and what is especially important - this additional armament of the VKS will not be to the detriment of the production of heavy vehicles, because it is necessary to re-equip the regiments armed with the old Su-27 and Su-30 first versions. And on the MiG-35, you can deploy new regiments.
- Where to get pilots for them?
- There is a recipe and has already been used once - to offer senior pilots to stay in the service for 5 years. As a result, all or almost all young lieutenants can be put on brand new MiG-35s, and at the same time expand (increase) the number of cadets of flight universities. As a result, in 5 years there will be more graduates, and old-time pilots will safely retire. And pilots retire quite young, so they can still serve an extra 5 years - this has already been done.

Quote: alexmach

Well, let's hope that in fact there is not more than 10 years. That having developments on the Su-57, things will go faster. If it goes well at all.

The fact of the matter is that "if it goes" - the chicken is in the nest.
Let's take the engine - AL-41F \ F1S for such an apparatus will be rather weak, and the calculation is made specifically for the "second stage engine", which will give afterburner thrust of 19,5 t.s. , and the thrust-to-weight ratio will provide high. But .... has this engine been promised for how many years?
Again at the end of this year?
And in a series?
By the end of the decade?
But will the number of these engines be enough to simultaneously produce the Su-57 and Su-75? Will the industry cope with the required volumes?
There are a lot of uncertainties with this project, and no one will drive a raw car into a series, which means WHAT?
This means that until the end of the decade (at least), the Aerospace Forces will remain without light fighters. And in general - without the proper number of fighters, because it is desirable to double their number (after all, in addition to the borders that have become restless, you will also have to control the territory of all or most of the former Ukraine. And strengthen the border with Finland - our former, and possibly future province).
And in a similar way, we need to strengthen at most by the end of this decade - we will not be given more time. And the Supreme High Command said the other day that Russia is starting to return its lands. And how can this be done without Aviation of the proper number and quality.
In addition, the MiG-35 will have an AFAR radar - the only one (except for the Su-57, which are few) of the fighters in service.
The most important thing about this aircraft is that you can launch it into a series right here and now, and retraining and mastering it by pilots and aircraft technicians will be much easier and faster.
- And the Su-75? - you ask ?
And his time will come. As soon as it takes off, goes through all the stages of testing, refinement and development by the industry, it will go into service with the Aerospace Forces in the new "light" fighter regiments. And if it turns out to be so good and lives up to expectations, then it will be possible to gradually replace the MiG-35s that have already served with them. But it will be in the next decade, and the well-deserved MiG-35s can be offered for delivery to our allies. And based on the experience of such deliveries (to this day) of the MiG-29 "out of stock" and their price, then we definitely won't cheapen the MiG-35.
And the Americans themselves have already eaten their fill with "stealth".

[Flanker692]

the difference in operating costs by 1,5 times is not enough to keep two fighters. For example, the cost of an hour of an F-15 flight is ~25 thousand dollars, the cost of an hour of an F-16 flight is ~8 thousand dollars. That's when the difference is 3 times - then we can talk about a "cheap workhorse"

[bayard]

A twin-engine fighter will never be cheaper or equal to a single-engine fighter, that's just "I don't have other writers / light fighters for you." Especially single-engine ones.
And fighters - front-line, unpretentious to base and not very expensive to operate, are needed today.
The advantage of the MiG-35 is that it is "here and now" and it can be immediately put into production. And the Su-75 will be in 10 years, not earlier. These 10 years he will fill with himself. An order for 120-200 of these machines would be quite justified.
And then foreign customers would have pulled up.

Quote from Flanker692

the difference in operating costs by 1,5 times is not enough to keep two fighters.

The US, however, is holding on to .

Quote from Flanker692

That's when the difference will be 3 times

It is 2 times, the rest is far-fetched.
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation today need a fairly rapid increase in the fighter fleet, and this must be done at the expense of cheaper front-line fighters.

[DPN]

YES, it looks like the USA is worse if they have F-15 = 450 pieces, and F-16 = 1000 pieces. It's like in life a muzzle takes by force, and with a normal mind, dexterity.

[neworange88]

Quote: Borik

A good fighter, it’s a pity that due to corporate intrigues, the MIG company was pushed into the shadows and 35 did not go into production.

The Mig-35 went into the series, but into small-scale production. Maybe it's all about the price?

His "star" ascended at MAKS-2017, however, there are only 8 serial machines in the VKS (there are 6 more experimental ones). It was assumed that the MiG-35 would become the basis of all light fighter aircraft of the Aerospace Forces.

The price of this new fighter, created literally from scratch (taking into account the accumulated experience), is about $ 45 million. This is even more expensive than for one fifth-generation Su-57 fighter (about $30 million), probably for this reason the Ministry of Defense is in no hurry to shell out for more MiG-35 purchases, preferring the modernization of existing fighters to the production of new ones. But foreign partners are actively eyeing this combat aircraft, including because of the price, because the same vaunted American F-35 costs $ 80 million, French Rafales or Swedish Griffins (Saab JAS-39E Gripen E) , the export version of which is 60 million dollars apiece.

Not surprisingly, Russia received two foreign bids for MiG-35s (Egypt, for example, previously signed a contract for 50 such Russian fighters).

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/304752/

[Rostislav Prokopenko]

The source is only slightly hostile.
According to the description in the article, both aircraft are needed. The quantitative ratio can only be determined by experience with the application. But if you do not have a dagger, but have a watch, what will you answer to an unpleasant question in the gateway?
Here are two fighters (especially albeit a few, but different) the budget of the Moscow Region will definitely not be killed

[neworange88]

So we don't have two. We consider the Su-35, Su-34M, Su-30SM, Mig-35, Su-57, Su-75. Really, we need to concentrate on the heavy Su-57, light Su-75 / light Mig-35 (Mig-35 to produce up to until the Su-75), the Su-34M fighter-bomber, enters the series. The rest is the duplication of the same functions by different, but the same type of fighters.

[Osipov9391]

The Su-34 is an obsolete aircraft class. They were taken from the sky by ancient "Buks" in Ukraine in the region of one and a half dozen.
It's outdated by 2000.

[neworange88]

The latest modification of the Su-34M is an excellent specialized fighter-bomber. How do you think you can leave the army without such a machine? The Su-24 and Su-25 are not eternal, and we only have the Su-34M to replace them. .

[Osipov9391]

What kind of fighter-bomber is it, that is, the word "fighter" ?!
Not, of course, any transport aircraft or drone crew of the Su-34 will be able to hit the R-73 missile within line of sight, but no more.
He will lose maneuverable close combat to any fighter, even the Ukrainian MiG-29, as it was over Borodianka at the beginning of the campaign.
That's all his capabilities as a fighter.
Then his sighting system comes from the 80s and has no value at all.
Even if the "Platan" is taken out into a hanging container, then all the more so this aircraft is not needed, since any of its fellows can carry the container.

Regarding the replacement, please note that the Navy has replaced its Crimean and Kaliningrad Su-24s with the Su-30SM, which is certainly correct and promising.
Regarding their replacement of the Su-25, this is nonsense. This plane is as simple as a Kalashnikov assault rifle and cheap to maintain.
It could only be replaced by the Su-39, which is not there, or its functions could be shifted to attack drones and helicopters.

What kind of air-launched cruise missiles does he take? He will not be able to carry the "dagger", the design does not allow.
And those that are, again, come from the 80s and are long outdated since they are already launched in the coverage area of ​​​​medium / long-range air defense systems, where the probability of hitting a bomber is huge.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Well, firstly, the beech is not ancient, but quite normal. Hohliks have the m1 version. Secondly, he will shoot any plane, even su 57, even fu 35. And thirdly, where are the proofs about 15 shot down su 34?

[Osipov9391]

Maybe not 15 downed Su-34s, but there will definitely be 11-12.
At the beginning of the campaign near Kyiv, 2 sides were lost, another one was damaged there and fell on the territory of Belarus.
Another one was shot down from MANPADS over Chernigov, the surviving pilot is now in Ukrainian captivity awaiting trial as he was charged with the murder of a civilian (this is a muddy story, but this happened in the war).
At least 3 aircraft were lost near Kharkov and at least 3 in the Zaporozhye region.
Well, even if a dozen are lost. What's the schedule?
1 board shot down by a fighter;
1 board hit by MANPADS at low altitude due to crew error;
8 hit by Buk air defense systems.
Perhaps another 1-2 hit by the S-300.

So the Buk is not as bad as our media portrays that these are antediluvian systems?

[Vanek30]

You have old information, the Su-34 pilot was exchanged from Chernigov a long time ago, and he is sitting at home. No judgment awaits. So there is no need to spread unverified information here.

[Osipov9391]

Maybe outdated if about Krasnoyartsev. He was accused there in Ukraine that he shot a civilian after ejection and hid in his barn. Then he gave up. And no one can confirm how it was.
The fact that the plane crashed on private houses caused terrible damage.

[Sedoy]

but it will be exactly 11-12.

those. no fluff...
"Gentlemen take their word for it" © ?

[Vanek30]

What kind of nonsense are you talking about? The sofa expert is immediately visible. Are you one of the same sort of experts who write that the Shell is bullshit because it was destroyed by several missiles at once from different sides and physically could not fire at targets from different sides?
You send at least an F-35 to Ukraine, its Buk will also be shot down if the F-35 falls into its zone of action. And keep in mind that the BUK does not "lead" the target in advance, because NATO AWACS transmits all the information to it, and when the target is already in the firing zone, then it grabs it and shoots, and the plane has nothing to do there, and the Khibiny are not omnipotent ...
So you wrote garbage ...

[Osipov9391]

I know very well about NATO AWACS that they are constantly circling in Romania and Poland near the borders of Ukraine.
And about external target designation for Ukrainian air defense is also known.
What comes out, with an AWACS radar range of up to 600 km, from Romanian airspace will it reach Kharkov and Chernigov, where the distance is almost twice as long? Yes, even to Zaporozhye more distance.
Of course, he can work in over-the-horizon mode, but there he will determine little in terms of range and distance.
400-450 km. Here is its optimal range.
Therefore, from Romania, he works along the Odessa-Nikolaev-Kherson and Crimea lines.
From Poland, AWACS operates mainly in Belarus.

[mister-red]

Quote: Osipov9391

The Su-34 is an obsolete aircraft class. They were taken from the sky by ancient "Buks" in Ukraine in the region of one and a half dozen.
It's outdated by 2000.

Were not mistaken, maybe the SU-24? The SU-34 did not go into production in 2000.

[Osipov9391]

No, I'm not mistaken. Compare the characteristics and history of the "classmate" Su-34 of the F-111 aircraft.
When it was developed and produced, and most importantly, when it was decommissioned from the same Australia.
Since then, no one designs or buys such aircraft.
Even the Kazakhs and Belarusians refused to buy the Su-34. Only multifunctionality - Su-30SM.
Conclusions can also be drawn from the fact that for 32 years, not a single export order for the Su-34 has been received.
Apparently they think differently.
And for the Su-30 of all modifications, hundreds of vehicles were sold for export and hundreds more were produced by China / India from our "sets".

[mister-red]

Since then, no one designs or buys such aircraft.

And also no one designs and bought aircraft like B-1 and Tu-160)
It's not an indicator at all. For example, no one buys attack aircraft either. And there are only 2 of them in the whole world over the past 40 years. The A-10 is in service only in the USA. Only a few former Soviet republics have SU-25s.
Not every country can afford a diverse fleet of aircraft.

[bayard]

Quote from: neworange88

The price of this new fighter, created literally from scratch (taking into account the accumulated experience), is about $ 45 million.

As far as I remember, the price was called 35 million dollars.

Quote from: neworange88

This is even more expensive than for one fifth-generation Su-57 fighter (approximately $30 million)

And was it worth posting such nonsense?
Even stretched by the ears to a minimum (because of which the manufacturers howled and almost began to sabotage production) - 37 million dollars.
And if you consider that the MiG was developed mainly at its own expense, and the Su-57 exclusively at the state expense, then you need to understand that the cost and development costs went into it. In the case of a normal series, the cost can be reduced to about 30 million rubles.
And such a plane is needed. It is needed precisely as light, cheaper to operate and less demanding on the conditions of basing (the ability to take off from unpaved strips and road sections.
He is quite capable of taking a break until the appearance in the Su-75 series, which has never taken off and its dignity is still only in words.
But the MiG-35 is.
There is a factory and a production line set up for its production.
The need for just such a fighter, right now, precisely in the conditions of the current conflict (and counting on its development) - IS.
And a hole of at least 10 years before the appearance of the Su-75 - also IS.
So what's the question?
In corruption (!), sabotage and wrecking in the current military conflict.

[zenion]

Roman Skomorokhov forgot to write - as an advertisement.

[Mainjet88]

"The Su-35 "sees" further than the MiG, but the MiG is an order of magnitude cheaper."
In order? Seriously? 10 times that is?
Is a light fighter 20% lighter than a heavy one?
Maintaining a fleet of 2 types of aircraft of the same purpose and with almost the same characteristics will cost much more than the difference in their prices.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote from MainJet88

In order? Seriously? 10 times that is?

This is the norm! But seriously, it’s a pity of course the car, but more design bureaus, but the author should not forget about the Su-57 and even the Su-75.
Those. against the background of the Su-57, the rest of the fighters look light, for sure, for the price, and the Su-75, I hope, will become light, and for the price too, a fighter for the Russian Aerospace Forces.

[Sergey Ivanovich Petrovsky]

With Chemezov you will become easy for the price. Since 1991, bandits and scammers have stolen and appropriated someone else's property on the territory of the USSR, and continue to frolic until now. At the forefront of the corner lies a profit, and the transfer of money to offshore .. There is no need for illusions, all according to the old: -60 Russian Ivanov stand like one black-haired John.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

But seriously, it's a pity of course the car, but more KB,

A complete layman in aviation, so I can’t say anything about the MIG-35. But about KB MIG ...
Very sad if he dies. To save the design bureau, maybe it was worth entrusting them with the creation of light passenger vehicles? The L-410 is outdated and will need to be replaced. Probably Manturov needs to look wider, but with an eye to the future?

[Dedok]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

L-410 is outdated

in the Czech Republic - the plant and the design bureau are our property, for some reason no one wants to see this
and assembly from car kits is in the Urals

[Mainjet88]

And now? After February 24? Still our property?
Then we sit quietly, suddenly the Czechs accidentally forgot about this plant, and we will remind them of such.

[serguei france]

You are mistaken, it is no longer our property, read the article:
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/60c210231f1ba301a73d7401/malaia-aviaciia-i-importozamescenie-kak-ploho-obstoiat-dela-626f7ee38e79676203af8ee6

[sgrabik]

The RAC MiG could well create a new interceptor, because this is their specialization, to replace the legendary MiG-31, it is simply necessary to create a new modern machine with much greater capabilities.

[Grits]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

To save the design bureau, maybe it was worth entrusting them with the creation of light passenger vehicles?

There are still niches for the MIG - a new interceptor, as well as, practically in the absence of the Yak, a new deck with GDP. But, since the personnel structure has already collapsed, it is naive to expect this.

[serguei france]

LET-410 is not with us, alas, read

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/60c210231f1ba301a73d7401/malaia-aviaciia-i-importozamescenie-kak-ploho-obstoiat-dela-626f7ee38e79676203af8ee6

[UAZ 452]

Military design bureaus and, in general, the defense industry does not particularly like to get involved with civilian products. It won’t work there to spend money and get rid of the customer with a beautiful presentation about “analogues”, and demand more and more money. A civil aircraft, car, household appliances and other products, if their price and quality do not match, simply will not be bought.
That is why the MiG company will proudly go into oblivion, but will not stoop to the production of civilian aircraft, except perhaps in order to master the budgets allocated by the state. But whether the output will be a real, competitive, in-demand aircraft is a big question.

[Beetle1991]

But seriously, it's a pity of course the car, but more KB,

Poghosyan defeated Mikoyan's legacy.
It would be funny if it was not so sad.

[parma]

Quote from MainJet88

"The Su-35 "sees" further than the MiG, but the MiG is an order of magnitude cheaper."
In order? Seriously? 10 times that is?
Is a light fighter 20% lighter than a heavy one?
Maintaining a fleet of 2 types of aircraft of the same purpose and with almost the same characteristics will cost much more than the difference in their prices.

The MiG-29/35 is rather a "medium" fighter - it is cheaper than a heavy one, but not much, in terms of characteristics it is between light and heavy. Yes, a medium fighter has the right to exist ... but if there are only medium fighters in the Air Force ... if there is a heavy or light one, questions of economic feasibility begin ... practically no one in the world has a medium-heavy fighter bundle (except for the fragments of the USSR and India) precisely for economic reasons …

[Dedok]

Quote: parma

just for economic reasons...

hardly, it's lobbying, it's everywhere
and look at China

[parma]

Quote: Dedok

Quote: parma

just for economic reasons...

hardly, it's lobbying, it's everywhere
and look at China

What about China? Where is their counterpart MiG-29/35? But it doesn’t exist ... there is a J-10, which is an analogue of the F-16, there is a J-11, which is a copy of the Su-30 ... The thought was that the MiG is a little cheaper, but also has slightly lower characteristics (this is not always bad, for some tasks they are redundant and 3 lighter cheaper aircraft would fit better than 2 heavy ones) than Su, but you need a single-engine one that will be a cheap workhorse ...

[Eug]

I see the "line" like this - a slightly heavier two-seater Su-57-2 (as a replacement for the Su-30,34), "medium" (in the Typhoon, Rafal, F-18 class) Su-5x with two LESS ed.30, Su- 75 and the "advanced" UTS-LBS (to replace the Yak-130) with one again-TAC NON-AFTERCAUTION ed.30. All are maximally unified in terms of avionics and, in fact, on a single engine. As for me - for any pocket and look at the composition of the Air Force. The interceptor, as for me, should be developed "dual-purpose" - at the same time as a naval missile carrier. I see it as a reduced twin-engine Tu-160 (with an inner-fuselage compartment) with a take-off weight of about 55-60 tons, i.e., somewhat more than the MiG-31, and the variable sweep will allow you to barrage in the air for quite a long time, waiting for the adversary.

[parma]

Quote: Eug

I see the "line" like this - a slightly heavier two-seater Su-57-2 (as a replacement for the Su-30,34), "medium" (in the Typhoon, Rafal, F-18 class) Su-5x with two LESS ed.30, Su- 75 and the "advanced" UTS-LBS (to replace the Yak-130) with one again-TAC NON-AFTERCAUTION ed.30. All are maximally unified in terms of avionics and, in fact, on a single engine. As for me - for any pocket and look at the composition of the Air Force. The interceptor, as for me, should be developed "dual-purpose" - at the same time as a naval missile carrier. I see it as a reduced twin-engine Tu-160 (with an inner-fuselage compartment) with a take-off weight of about 55-60 tons, i.e., somewhat more than the MiG-31, and the variable sweep will allow you to barrage in the air for quite a long time, waiting for the adversary.

IMHO, a strange concept ... why the "heavier" Su-57? It will not work as a drummer - you can’t shove a large load into the fuselage, but under the wing it will kill the entire stealth. Why average? Given the standard standard PAK FA and the presence of LMFI, it will not have a niche. Only export? Again, no one will buy, the MiG-35 died from that. The world has long come up with a “bicycle”, and much richer countries are a light workhorse as the basis of the park and a “heavy” argument when it is not enough. If there is no money for this and that, then yes, or only easy or only medium ...

[Eug]

As for me, the single-seat Su-57 is at the limit of the physiological capabilities of the pilot. And the middle one is in case the military insists on a twin-engine aircraft. Then the average will be able to perform many tasks of the "heavy", but cheaper.

[Vadmir]

"advanced" UTS-LBS (to replace the Yak-130) with one again-takm LESS ed.30.

What for? No unification will pay for the fuel costs of such a powerful engine for training purposes. And the price of the product is 30, which will make the training aircraft golden.

[PPD]

The moment drove himself into a corner - it was necessary to make a single-engine fighter, oh the opinion prevailed - a twin-engine pier is more reliable.
And do not play with landing on the ground.
In the original version, more than 10 tons, with a range of 1200.
F 16 was originally single-engine and more than 6 tons. Yes, and Mig 35 was late, alas.

[UAZ 452]

But what about the reliability of domestic engines? If every engine failure is the loss of an aircraft ... However, I would like to know the real statistics - how often do twin-engine fighters manage to save a car in case of failure of one of them.

[PPD]

Oooh, it's fun.
The numbers are approximate from memory, but something like that ..
Mig 29 produced 1600, 54 accidents and disasters,
MiG 23 - about 5000 produced in total, according to other figures - 3600 combat 768 - combat training - 100.
F 16 - for the year 20 4600 - more than 600 accidents.
Well, the conclusion..

[UAZ 452]

Well, usually the number of accidents and disasters is not correlated with the number of aircraft, but with flying hours. And again - in this context, it is the catastrophes with the destruction of the aircraft due to engine failure that are of interest, and the accident does not necessarily lead to the loss of the aircraft. And even I would narrow the question even more: how often did the MiG 29 land safely with one failed engine?

[PPD]

This is data on the open web.
True, there you need to read with a pencil. I figured, I don’t take f 16. Pure engine failure is not the main reason.
Not even a big percentage.

[Toucan]

Su-35 "sees" further than the MiG, but the "MiG" order cheaper ...

Dear author, please be more careful with the wording. On the "order" - this is 10 times.

what is F-15? This is an all-weather fighter-bomber capable of solving approximately the same range of tasks as the Su-35.

It is not at all clear what modification of the F-15 the respected author is talking about? And the Su-35S is not a fighter-bomber. Of course, he can work on the ground, but he is far from the Su-34 and even the latest modifications of the Su-30.

[Yarr_Arr]

If you are already a mathematician, you should understand that "order" is a base number. In binary, this is 2, for example. In octal - 8. And so on.
So ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Tucan

Dear author, please be more careful with the wording. On the "order" - this is 10 times.

The first order is tens, the second is hundreds, the third is thousands, etc. Accordingly, an order of magnitude higher, which means you need to multiply by 10, one order lower, divide by 10. But often this phrase is pronounced by people who are far from mathematics and in relation to things that cannot be expressed in numbers.

[Letun]

Quote: tihonmarine

The first order is tens, the second is hundreds, the third is thousands, etc. Accordingly, an order of magnitude higher, which means you need to multiply by 10, a strand lower, divide by 10.

No, well, in fairness, the number 99 and the number 100 are numbers of a different order. But in a conversation, the phrase "an order of magnitude" of course has exactly the meaning that you wrote about.

[iz odessy]

The novel clearly captured the essence of not only the already existing problems of monopolization in the industry, but also predicted future ones. Even in the "planned" USSR, this did not happen. The design bureaus, yes, were closed, but whatever, with such a result like "only dry time". Sukhoi is also waiting for the "modernization limit" crisis

[tihonmarine]

Quote from odessy

The novel clearly captured the essence of not only the already existing problems of monopolization in the industry, but also predicted future ones.

Roman is to be commended for this.

[antivirus]

Any whim for your money, but if only without 10av.
They won't.
This is how the attitude towards av-su is shown;

[Ross xnumx]

Su-35 differs precisely in that how a heavy fighter should differ from a light one.

With all due respect to both teams, I note that the Su-75 in the future may well replace the MiG-35. And further. Variety is good in food. It is clear that there should be a choice, but not like that. so that the eyes run up and cannot fall into place ... "Integrity" can be lost ...

[sgrabik]

MiG - 35 already exists and is completely ready for mass production, and Su - 75 is still only on paper and with a very vague future.

[Wedmak]

Most likely, the decision to withdraw the Su-57 + Su75 into the series takes the MiG out of the game. A classic combination of a single and twin-engine fighter. Yes, the 5th generation is the most expensive of all the 4th with pluses, but it is in operation that it can turn out to be more efficient and cheaper than the entire current zoo of fighters.
When, if not now, to take a cardinal step towards the transition to new aircraft?

[Dilettante grandfather]

I want to note that the single-engine fighter, the Su-75, has not yet passed any tests. I'm not arguing about a bunch of two machines, but the MiG has already been made in metal, has already stood on the wing. The same cannot be said about the Su-75.
And further. The cardinal step towards the transition to new aircraft must be evolutionary, not revolutionary.

[Wedmak]

but the MiG was already made in metal, already got on the wing

He got up, but he didn’t go into the series. I think the Ministry of Defense thought hard: why deploy a series of another similar fighter. Its "lightness" is questionable. With a bunch of Su-30/35s and a rather large air defense modernization (this is the question of the cost of a missile to shoot down an UAV - which is also a big topic in general).

And further. The cardinal step towards the transition to new aircraft must be evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Well, a few hundred flying Su will just make it possible to smoothly update the fleet. Although, it is probably worth speeding up the development of the Su-75.

[Aerodrome]

everyone here seems to have forgotten that the SU-75 is planned for export "for the poor."

[Dilettante grandfather]

I think the whole point will be in the filling, not the glider. And then, plans can always be adjusted, right?

[Wedmak]

Um, for example, Pantsir-S was developed to order for one Arab country ... Which did not stop it from being finalized and put into service, the machine turned out to be successful.
So, nothing at all prevents you from accepting your version in the VKS.

[lelik613]

Well, if for export "for the poor", then it will definitely end with sawing and enchanting XXX into a puddle. It won't just hit everyone. We don’t have enough stories with a puperjet and ms-kami.

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Aerodrome

everyone here seems to have forgotten that the SU-75 is planned for export "for the poor."

The new Su-75 Checkmate light fighter, which UAC presented at MAKS, was created by Rostec on its own initiative, without attracting budgetary funds. That is, the state corporation will have to recoup investments through sales.

[Vadmir]

everyone here seems to have forgotten that the SU-75 is planned for export "for the poor."

I believe that the war in Ukraine will prove the need for a light and inexpensive fighter - the workhorse of war.
Expensive and heavy duty cannot, by definition, be massive. And in a big war, a massive aircraft is needed.

[UAZ 452]

It is not a fact that the niche of mass-produced aircraft will be occupied by manned aircraft, and not by drones. And in general - you need to choose priorities more clearly: it’s stupid, even criminal to put on the conveyor, bring to mind (and there is no doubt that any aircraft at the beginning of mass operation has a bunch of childhood diseases, the elimination of which is comparable in cost to development and production) another fighter , which already exist, and quite a few, when we have a complete failure in UAVs, AWACS.

[Dilettante grandfather]

Well, we can only speculate why the MoD decided so on the MiG. It's their decision, they know what they're doing. At least I hope they understand.
Perhaps there is a desire to reduce the range of the fleet, unify some of the spare parts, transfer all combat aircraft to Generation Five. I won’t be surprised that attack aircraft to replace the Su-35, and also with elements from the Su-57, are already being developed with might and main.

[Leon68]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

I won’t be surprised that attack aircraft to replace the Su-35 are already being developed with might and main, and also with elements from the Su-57

Correct. We have one attack aircraft Su 25

[Dilettante grandfather]

yes, it's true. Su-35 bomber.

[AlexSam]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

yes, it's true. Su-35 bomber

thin!

[Dilettante grandfather]

To the highest degree...

[Dilettante grandfather]

Yes, I'm an amateur. But I'm not Blin!

[Sergey M. Karasev]

attack aircraft are also being developed to replace the Su-35,

We have one attack aircraft Su 25

What about the Su-39?

[max702]

You are very close to the truth .. Why in the Aerospace Forces is a similar aircraft at the same price with lower performance characteristics and with completely different nomenclature total? For once, the VKS made a sound (ay epic t64 \ 72 \ 80 \ 90) decision, but this categorically does not suit the author! A mess with a variety of sorts is ending, there will be ONE family of control systems with different tasks, and on the way a very significant trump card "product 30" with it, this family will receive completely different performance characteristics both in the air and in operation therefore, aircraft flying on the "Product 30" will definitely become a "unique offer". According to Kornev, the new unit can be installed not only on the Su-57. With minor modifications, the engine of the second stage will most likely be mounted on the Su-35 and Su-34 as part of their modernization programs.https://russian.rt.com/russia/article/926444-su-57-dvigatel-izdelie-30
A serious aspect of the new engine is also a reduction in the cost of the life cycle of the machine - less maintenance costs, longer overhaul life, ”Marchukov said about the new power plants.
The MiG does not have a similar trump card.
We will see something similar after the SVO in relation to the MI-28, they will produce the KA-52M and possibly (which I would very much like the KA-50m) and that's it, one design, one AF, one training of technicians and pilots greatly increases the combat readiness in the troops, variety and increased nomenclature of EVIL ! And the 28s will be exported .. The 29th pilots never liked "airfield cover aircraft", "first drive aircraft" and other unflattering assessments .. Well, in the light of today's prices for military aircraft, talking about some kind of cheapness is crazy. a modern efficient aircraft cannot be cheap and that's a fact ..

[Vadmir]

A mess with a variety of sorts is ending, there will be ONE family of control systems with different tasks, and a very significant trump card "product 30" is on the way

Betting on one project is like playing the lottery. If the project succeeds, you can get a good car for less money. What if the project fails?
This has already happened more than once.
And when a big catastrophe happens, all similar planes are put on the ground until the reasons are clarified. When there is an alternative it is not critical. What if there is no alternative?

[max702]

With the current technological paradigm, each new model is very resource-intensive, it’s impossible to have two dozen design bureaus like in the 30s-40s of the XX century, you have to concentrate on one thing. The West generally left a couple of firms and is trying to do something (with the broadest cooperation inside), we have a relationship with them in the population of 1x10 in the material base similar to 1x10, so we don’t have resources for two or three full-fledged design bureaus, and the MiG has long been impotent a little more than completely their last plane is the 31st, the rest is slag! Kindred tribal ties in science and technology do not lead to good, the same thing, I repeat, is waiting for KB Mil
What do you mean it won't work? The SU family has long been worked out and produced in thousands of copies. The SU-35M is the best in mass fighter aviation, what kind of failure can we talk about in this situation? Everything is very good with him even without "product 30" .. And if you consider what they say when upgrading to control systems of all stripes, they plan to partially install avionics from the 57th, then the groundwork for modernization is impressive ..

[Vadmir]

The West generally left a couple of firms and is trying to do something (with the broadest cooperation inside), we have a relationship with them in the population of 1x10

In the USA, 2 companies + the British + the French + the Swedes + the Japanese + the South Koreans and someone else, little by little, are engaged in combat aircraft.
We have no choice, if Sukhoi fails, we will be left without, say, a 6th generation aircraft. Yes, having a few KBs is expensive, but being left without an alternative with a failed project is deadly.

MiGs have long been impotent a little more than completely; their last aircraft is the 31st, the rest is slag!

If MiG had been given the same amount of money as Sukhoi, one could draw conclusions, but the money was not at all equal.
I am not for the MiG, specifically, but for the presence of internal competition. Let there be two KBs, but united, universal. Someone will get a fighter, someone will get an attack aircraft, etc. But there should be a competition for each project.

Kindred tribal ties in science and technology do not lead to good, the same thing, I repeat, is waiting for KB Mil

I agree, but rather I'm afraid for Kamov Design Bureau. The Milevites will devour them and will not choke, and the point here is not at all who makes helicopters better.

[max702]

Quote: Vadmir

In the USA, 2 companies + the British + the French + the Swedes + the Japanese + the South Koreans and someone else, little by little, are engaged in combat aircraft.

It's all one country corporation.
MiG had more than enough money, they all blew it back in the 80s ..
I think the competition will be organized in a different way, it will be very difficult for the MIlevites after the SVO, only the niche of transport workers will remain for them and that's it.

[cat Rusich]

Quote: max702

, it will be very difficult for the MIL people after the NWO, only the niche of transport workers will remain for them and that's it.

Mil has Mi-24VM (Mi-35M)

Quote: max702

.
I think the competition will be organized differently, no matter how.

As part of the "joint design bureau" will allocate "department of light (single-engine) fighters" - when the results begin - will be allocated in independent KB, and will be named after the current chief designer.
Rationale for separation of the "combined design bureau" - will be the same - everyone "processes his garden" - "Whoever does what works best - that's what he does."

[Maikcg]

Yes, having a few KBs is expensive, but being left without an alternative with a failed project is deadly.

Dangerous for colonial wars.
And we are peaceful people and our Sarmat stands on the side of the road.

[Nordsc0l]

Well, look, about a hundred su35s were produced. And given that they began to produce it in 2008, and it was put into service in 2014, how much does it turn out? 15 aircraft a year? Well, to be honest, it is. You need 30. Regarding the su 57 and the engine of the second stage. In 2010 he took to the air. For 12 years of testing, and not to mention that it began to be developed in 2001, neither the aircraft nor the engine are ready for mass production. 3 aircraft in 3 years of production is nothing. And when all this will be ready, it is not clear. Every year they say, right now, right now. And what ? But nothing. Just nothing and everything. Regarding 50. A bold cross is put on it. It began to be developed in the 70s. I got into production somewhere in the early 00s, in the late 90s. Released 17 pieces. Today they are not exploited. We decided that there is a very large load on 1 pilot, and there are no electronics that can fix this well. Actually it is. Therefore, the ka 52 appeared.

[max702]

You have outdated data SU-35 produced in much more than 97 only in the Russian Aerospace Forces, another 24 were sold to China. 11 have been built and are waiting to be sent to Indonesia, as well as 24 to Egypt, that is, the production capacity is a matter of supplies exclusively in the political area .. As for the SU-57, production capacity is being increased with the production of about 100 aircraft per year, regarding the product "30 "The work is going on and there is progress, I generally like the approach of the current authorities, who do not allow the supply of raw equipment to the troops, mistakes with the T-64, MiG-29 and others have clearly been taken into account, they will complete it in large quantities, otherwise it will be like the West built under 600 F- 35 but they are ALL not combat-ready, like littoral ships, aircraft carriers of the latest generation and super destroyers Zamvolt .. We do not have such material and human resources, we are only 152 million, so we will not play these games .. And for the Ka-50, the decision will be revised and by the end of the NWO, we will see this, because as reality has shown, the second crew member with the current navigation (and he was and was needed as a navigator) and target designation is clearly superfluous. The performance characteristics of the helicopter will increase, personnel losses will decrease ..

[Nordsc0l]

Wrong, 124 aircraft. It's still not much for 8 years of production. This is 15,5 aircraft per year. This is negligible. You need at least 30. The fact that there are orders is good. To build 100 aircraft a year, you need to try sooo hard. And given that the Su 57 has not been put into production (3 aircraft are not considered, this is nothing at all), I strongly doubt that they will do this in the next 5 years. Pro Ka 50. It has not been produced for more than 20 years. It’s not possible to take it and start producing, given that ka 52 is produced and there are orders for it, but ka 50 is not produced at all. And is it needed at all, if there is a ka 52, which, in principle, is not inferior to it in terms of characteristics. + worked out by many years of production and participated in hostilities.

[Nordsc0l]

About 152 million people is generally ridiculous. According to the last census, the population is 142 million

[max702]

Yes, 145.4 million was wrong, thus the task became even more complicated ..
As for the KA-50, everything is much simpler, this helicopter is easier to produce than the KA-52 and even cheaper, and the flight characteristics due to weight reduction in a single variant by 1.5 tons cannot be the same, they just compare the KA-50 with old engines with The KA-52, on which the VK-2500 is installed, will most likely be produced in Rostov-on-Don, the MI-28 categorically did not live up to expectations and the military was tired of this bagpipe.
The SU-35 is being transferred to Irkutsk, where it will be further produced. the fact that they released a little, the question already said political, not technological. and there is money and there is an opportunity .. by and large there is no indication from the top ..
According to SU-57, work is in full swing, what they don’t really shout is as it should be

[Nordsc0l]

And why did you get the idea that the decision on Kamov will be revised?

[PPD]

Yes, the military Mig 29 did not want to take it.
He didn’t go as a deck one at first - the original one differs from the late ship one. Then they began to improve - they threw out the upper air intakes with the entire arsenal, poured fuel where it was possible and impossible. They made a ship version, but the Indians did not like it.
As a result, they finished up to MiG 35.
The story is somewhat reminiscent of the story of the MiG 23. The pilots first spoke of it as "something in between .... bad and very bad (the terms are different ) then added it.
Maybe he would have become numerous if the USSR had not collapsed, he would have appeared 25-30 years ago. And so....
The Americans of the 6th generation are beginning to design, and we have completed the instant 35.

[Mister X]

Quote: Wedmak

the decision to put the Su-57 + Su75 into the series and displays

Did you mean Input?

[AC130 Gunship]

Until February 23.02.2022, 35, on the issue of Mig15, everything was clear to everyone. Maybe now something will change. Further: F35, released 35 years earlier than the prototype CuXNUMX, solves completely different tasks in the US Air Force. Namely: purely air defense.
Nk and the last. Taking into account the new Su shown in plastic a year ago, the Mig35's chances even after February 24 are negligible ... Although, if we assume that the chips from Taiwan do not appear for a long time, then the Mig21 can be revived. Only the nose, like the Chinese, round off, and - forward

[Eug]

Hmm ... at one time Barkovsky went to the MiG, it seems, to implement ideas that could not find a place in Su ... it turns out that it did not work out ... as for me, everything possible must be done to preserve the design bureau, but are there people able to do this primarily by creating new machines?

[malyvalv]

The abandonment of light fighters is most likely due to the increased requirements for power-to-weight ratio for the purposes of electronic warfare and target detection. A lot of energy is spent on this and it is easier to realize the potential on a heavy fighter.
For example, if Mig "sees" not as well as Su, then his electronic warfare will be less effective. And how will he fight the same Rafals, even if Su at least does not win against Rafal in terms of electronic warfare.

[Titus_2]

Have you conducted a training battle or are you on the staff of designers. Where does such awareness of electronic warfare come from.

[malyvalv]

A well-known story was about the choice of Rafal by the Egyptians after a training battle with the Su-35.

[Revolver]

But there was a time, "Soviet fighter" and "MiG" were synonymous. Although ... there was a time when, without exception, the fighters of the Red Army Air Force came out from under the pencil of the "king of fighters" Polikarpov. It happened and passed, and it was the MiG design bureau that became one of Polikarpov's gravediggers. Moreover, it came out of the Polikarpov Design Bureau under the pretext that Polikarpov could not cope with the multitude of projects that he had started. It came out together with the best shots and with a promising project for a high-altitude fighter with a water-cooled engine, which became the MiG-1. And the brother is a member of the Politburo Kagbe nothing to do with it.
And still, it is sincerely a pity that the era is over.

[lelik613]

Polikarpov would bring the I-200 to 43, ending in nothing.

[fiberboard]

Hmm, sorry MiG. It is not known what more good or bad brought the activity of Poghosyan. Why can't you do it like in America? Let each state design bureau have its own factories and put up cars for a competition. We have Su, MiG, Yak. Yak was taken out of the game altogether.

[Wedmak]

Let each state design bureau have its own factories and put up cars for a competition.

Development cost. The further, the more expensive production. Even a technology demonstrator. It's expensive to maintain your own factory that produces a couple of cars in a five-year period.
Yak actually had a hand in the MS-21.
As an option, you can make a joint pilot plant, where all design bureaus can order the assembly of their machines. But here the question is: who will pay?

[Revolver]

Quote: Wedmak

As an option, you can make a joint pilot plant, where all design bureaus can order the assembly of their machines. But here the question is: who will pay?

Bolivar, in the sense of the budget, can not stand two

[Vadmir]

Let each state design bureau have its own factories and put up cars for a competition.

It is very expensive, but you are right - this is the only opportunity for Russia. We do not have the opportunity to choose between aircraft from different countries, such as India, and even the United States. And what if the new plane turns out to be unsuccessful, but it has no competitor? The country ends up without a plane at all, or rather with an outdated predecessor.

[UAZ 452]

And if the competitor's plane is also unsuccessful? Do you need a third KB? And if it messes up too? Fourth? And when you distribute earrings to all the sisters, in the sense - spray the available budget on all this hungry horde, then there is no doubt - you will not have a plane. No one.

[UAZ 452]

In our country, all these design bureaus would put up beautiful pictures for the competition, and would require multibillion-dollar state subsidies for development, while absolutely not guaranteeing the result.
By the way, in America over the past decades, the number of aviation design bureaus has decreased many times, including due to their merger.

[rocket757]

In general, it is a Requiem for KB MIG.
How, what and why, only those involved can know ...

[ramzay21]

The author is right. The MiG-35 and Su-35 are machines of different classes, and the most massive fighter in all countries where the leadership of the country, the army and the Air Force is friends with the head is just a light fighter, that is, the MiG-35.
Heavy fighters such as the Su-35 are used where it is necessary to break the resistance of enemy aircraft when clear air superiority is needed. In all other cases, light fighters are used, that is, such as the MiG-35.
It is no coincidence that in the USSR there were many times more light fighters, as in the United States, and in other countries there are heavy fighters only in the air forces of India, China, Saudi Arabia and Japan.

Results have not been needed in our country for a long time, we are ruled by criminals, intriguers and wreckers, and it was precisely such a schemer and wrecker that Poghosyan destroyed the MiG in an undercover fight, then in the same undercover fight pushed the Tupolev and Ilyushin design bureaus away from civil aircraft construction. As a result, he was kicked out after listening to the opinion of the Indians about the Su-57 when they left the joint program for the construction of a fifth generation fighter.

[Wedmak]

after listening to the opinion of the Indians about the Su-57

Yes, yes ... the opinion of the great and technological Indian aircraft school. It's not that I support undercover games... but Indians... are not great designers to listen to. Moreover, the Su-57 has been implemented and a series is underway.

[ramzay21]

Yes, yes ... the opinion of the great and technological Indian aircraft school. It's not that I support undercover games... but Indians... are not great designers to listen to.

Hindus are one of the few who met both the Su-57 and the F-35

Moreover, the Su-57 has been implemented and a series is underway.

Poghosyan was expelled, the Su-57 did not go into production, and the Indians at the same time left the fifth generation project, and all this, of course, is a mere coincidence.

[max702]

Quote: ramzay21

Su-57 did not go into production

As always, time!
As Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko said in his report at the National Center for Defense Control of the Russian Federation on January 20, 2022, in the fourth quarter of 2021, 17 new aircraft were delivered in the interests of the Aerospace Forces of Russia, including two fifth-generation Su-57 fighters.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4470926.html

[ramzay21]

As always, time!

If you read carefully, you will understand what I am writing about the fact that the Su-57 did not go into production at the time when Poghosyan was expelled. And it's not 2021.

[max702]

That is, did you go to series 57? And who and where was the tenth case transferred .. Attacks on Pogosyan are similar to attacks on Rogozin, and here and there a banal order from the enemies of our country.

[ramzay21]

It's nobody's fault that you don't read carefully.
Poghosyan was kicked out and not made a hero for the Su-57 and Superjet, unlike Rogozin. Although both Pogosyan and Rogozin are pests and saboteurs, and those who protect them are the real enemies.
The activities of such as Pogosyan and Rogozin significantly undermined the security of our country.

[Andybuts]

Attacks on Poghosyan are similar to raids on Rogozin, and here and there a banal order from the enemies of our country.

And what country are you from? I won’t say about Poghosyan, but Rogozin’s activities are the activities of a typical enemy of his country. In the 1930s, he would have been shot, and they would hardly have been able to rehabilitate him later.

[max702]

Under Rogozin, Vostochny was completed and not a single spaceship fell, the series of accident-free launches reached record levels, and you want to shoot him for whom you work? Although red is always Russophobe! And this is an axiom. Poghosyan has kept modern technologies in the country in the civil aircraft industry and the gift of our army the best aircraft in the world...

[Andybuts]

Under Rogozin, Vostochny was completed and not a single spaceship fell

But what about the epic launch of the Soyuz in 2018, which flew without accidents before Rogozin since 1983? And those launches, when successful missile launches, but the satellites were lost? Scandals with Vostochny constantly pop up.
And what is the merit when they launch equipment that has been used for decades without accidents? This is generally how it should be. For Rogozin, all accidents during the development, testing and fine-tuning of equipment have already occurred.
What to do with the cut in Roskosmos, the lack of progress and the loss of leading positions in the space industry?
Then, are Rogozin's sins limited to one Roskosmos?

[max702]

You would have learned the materiel, you see, and you would have learned a lot ..
These are mediocrity (and most likely mishandled Cossacks) and pour shit on our country's leadership.
18.07.2013 23:26
Heading:
Society
Rocket "Proton-M" fell due to inverted sensors
"Proton-M" fell due to inverted sensors
Rogozin headed Roskosmos 4 May 2018 37, by decree of the President of Russia Vladimir Putin, he was appointed General Director of the State Corporation for Space Activities "Roscosmos"[XNUMX].
In September 2014, due to the delay in the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome for 26 months, President Vladimir Putin assembled a commission on this issue, headed by Dmitry Rogozin[34]. The Deputy Prime Minister constantly monitored the construction process, making trips to the cosmodrome, as a result, the backlog was reduced, 20 criminal cases were initiated, but the construction of the first stage was still delivered 4 months late[34]. Dmitry Rogozin criticized the management staff of Roskosmos[35].
Yes, under him in 2018, one single rocket fell (when he was in office for 5 months, it’s ridiculous to present anything with such a period), but at the same time, Roskosmos raised whistles in this accident, proving that our means of rescue work throughout the launch of the ship into space. So under Rogozin in space, everything is much better for us than before him ..

[ramzay21]

Under Rogozin, the Vostochny was completed

Only money was spent on its construction as on several such spaceports

Poghosyan has kept modern technologies in the country in the civil aircraft industry and the gift of our army the best aircraft in the world...

The Su-34 is a Soviet aircraft, the Su-35 and Su-30 are modernizations of the Soviet Su-27, and the two-seat Su-27, called the Su-30, was developed under the USSR. Su-57 engines of the first stage of Soviet development, engines of the second stage began to be developed in the USSR. According to the test results, the Su-57 Poghosyan was kicked out, probably for good results.
It’s better not to remember about the 70% imported Superjet, this project almost destroyed the production of many domestic components in civil aviation.

Although red is always Russophobe! And it's an axiom

30 years ago we were the second economy in the world, we produced everything from nails to airplanes and we were feared and respected all over the world.
After 30 years of anti-Soviet rule with beautiful songs about the damned communists, our country has greatly decreased in size, our economy has fallen below the 10th place in the world, our elites listen to what they are told from Washington and the Russians began to kill Russians. The population of the RSFSR alone, which increased from 1980 to 1990 by 10 million over 30 years, decreased by 3 million, and this is not counting the relocation of Crimea along with 2 million and more than 10 million migrants from the former republics., That is, the population of the Russian Federation under the communists would have been at least 45 million more than under the anti-Soviet. And who is the Russophobe here?

[provergatel]

"30 years ago we were the second economy in the world, we produced everything from nails to airplanes and we were feared and respected all over the world".

But do not remind those present how all this "magnificence" ended?

[max702]

Who wrote this?

Quote: ramzay21

Poghosyan was expelled, the Su-57 did not go into production

Direct text says

Quote: ramzay21

Su-57 did not go into production

Where did you write that after Poghosyan's dismissal, the serial construction of the SU-57 began?

[Andybuts]

Where did you write that after Poghosyan's dismissal, the serial construction of the SU-57 began?

remember how the Su-57 went into production. It was by order of the president, far from the most competent person in military aviation, perhaps at the suggestion of lobbyists from the KLA.
In the Aerospace Forces, they were not going to take the Su-57 in the current version, having ordered 2028 units until 16, which is not in favor of the aircraft. And only the intervention of the Almighty imposed this aircraft, increasing the series to 76 units. besides 2028. So it's not yet a fact that the series was launched - that's good.

[Vadmir]

In the fourth quarter of 2021, 17 new aircraft were delivered to the Russian Aerospace Forces, including two fifth-generation Su-57 fighters.

And in 2014, 101 combat aircraft were produced. Yes, for a year, but 17x4 = 68, not 101. The trend is depressing, but the country is at war and new aircraft are very much needed.

[Wedmak]

Hindus are one of the few who met both the Su-57 and the F-35

Acquaintance does not mean constructing. And you can criticize even a concrete pillar.

[sh3roman]

But the Indians have loot for the latest and best weapons in the world, and they can order it from anyone they want, and the great raisa, like a beggar and God forgive me, walks with an outstretched hand

[Wedmak]

Somewhere recently I have already heard this ... it seems that it was about airplanes ... or microcircuits ... or some other technology ...

[sh3roman]

Well, tell us how your ships ply the big theater in a parallel universe.

[shahor]

Quote: Wedmak

but the Indians ... are not great designers to listen to.

Hindus are great buyers, in the 90s, in fact, they made it possible to preserve tank building and the aircraft industry in the Russian Federation. They are good investors, and their participation in the Su-57 project would be super useful. Such investors are groomed and cherished. If they were mistaken in something, they must patiently and kindly explain what's what. In the meantime, we believe that everyone in life is obliged to us - let them take what we give. But in the international market, this is not the case. The buyer is a gentleman. Let's face it, it gets a little better.

[Maxim G]

Why do we need 2 aircraft at all - light, heavy.

In France - one, and on deck it is the same.

[shurshun]

And by the way, it is very close in size and weight to the MiG-35

[Maxim G]

It has AFAR, S-shaped air intakes, cruising supersonic and advanced electronics, which is not found on either the MiG-29 family or the Su-27 family.

Why do we need a Su-57 with a round nozzle and straight air intakes?

[Titus_2]

And what about the size of France, and what about the geopolitical situation and just remember the history of the last wars. And by the way, a few years ago I was very worried about the situation and was very afraid that the KA-52 would go into oblivion, but the CBO put a few dots, although there were a lot of laudatory articles about MI-28. And do you also have a phone with your wife of the same company or a car with a neighbor of the same brand?

[marat2016]

They forgot that Israel, Korea, Singapore have F-15s. Su-27\30\35 in Algeria, Angola, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Uganda.

[ramzay21]

They forgot that Israel, Korea, Singapore have F-15s. Su-27\30\35 in Algeria, Angola, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Uganda.

Yes, I forgot

[EvilLion]

In our country there are no more unnecessary org. structures like separate air forces and air defense, each of which submit your aircraft.

It is no coincidence that in the USSR there were many times more light fighters

If we count some MiG-1990 fighters for 21, then, of course, straight to the fig of light fighters. True, for some reason, the MiG after the 21st made the MiG-23 in 10 tons of empty weight, which is a third more than the early F-16 and Mirage-2000, and all projects of miniature fighters were closed. Because the concept itself is not viable. Calling the MiG-29 with a price of 75% of the price of the Su-27 a mass one really needs to be able to. It is not surprising that the Air Force, clinging to the really expensive MiG-31, did not really appreciate the Soviet-made MiG-29. Not much cheaper than the Su-27, but the capabilities are significantly lower.

Tupolev in the USSR pushed everyone. Well, he can, it's Tupolev. As a result, how did it happen that by the time the Union collapsed, this office rolled out some freak called the Tu-334, with an archaic rear-engine layout, a 3rd crew member and weak performance characteristics, and the Tu-154 burned kerosene in such a way that it could be used was it possible except in Aeroflot with cheap fuel? Well, the Tu-204 appeared 10 years later than a similar Western aircraft. In fact, under the wise leadership of Tupolev, the civil aviation industry lagged behind the Western one by a generation, and then they wonder why airlines take used Boeings and watermelons on a free market.

[fiberboard]

So not so long ago, an Indian MiG-21 shot down a Pakistani F-16 in a dogfight.

[ramzay21]

In our country there are no more unnecessary org. structures like separate air forces and air defense, each of which submit your aircraft.

What a news! And where do they go?

True, for some reason, the MiG after the 21st made the MiG-23 in 10 tons of empty weight, which is a third more than the early F-16 and Mirage-2000, and all projects of miniature fighters were closed. Because the concept itself is not viable.

Come on! But what about the F-35, Rafal, Eurofighter?

Calling the MiG-29 with a price of 75% of the price of the Su-27 a mass one really needs to be able to.

Oh how! You probably don’t know that the MiG-35 costs 45 million and the cost of the Su-35 under contracts is around 100 million, but you probably have some other laws of mathematics in which the difference in price 2 times is only 25%.
Do you know that an empty MiG weighs 11 tons and a Su weighs 19 tons?

Tupolev in the USSR pushed everyone. Well, he can, it's Tupolev.

And therefore, we were well financed and had huge factories of Antonov Design Bureau, Ilyushin Design Bureau, Sukhoi Design Bureau, MiG Design Bureau, Yakovlev Design Bureau and Beriev Design Bureau. Do you know that the largest aircraft factory in the USSR was TAPOiCH, which produced Ilyushin Design Bureau aircraft?

As a result, how did it happen that by the time the Union collapsed, this office rolled out some kind of freak called Tu-334, with an archaic rear-engine layout, a 3rd crew member and weak performance characteristics

Do Bombordier and Macdonald Douglas know that they produce aircraft with an archaic rear-engine layout?

Tu-154 burned kerosene so that it could only be used in Aeroflot with cheap fuel

So you compare the Tu-154 with the Boeing 727, and you won’t believe it, but he also ate kerosene, which was cheap in the USA in the 80s and 90s

Well, the Tu-204 appeared 10 years later than a similar Western aircraft.

The Tu-204 was ready for production in the early 90s and was not inferior to the Boeing 757 in terms of fuel consumption, which are still flying. It's just that uncles from Boeing brought money to Putin's associates and they closed our aviation industry, which was solemnly announced in the late 2000s by the then President of the Russian Federation Medvedev.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ramzay21

What a news! And where do they go?

have been optimized.
The former Air Defense Forces have been included in the Air Force for almost a quarter of a century. And now the Aerospace Forces have a single structure - the Air Force and Air Defense armies, armed with aircraft weapons that are the same for the Air Force.
And not like before, when this is an aircraft only for the Air Force, this is only for Air Defense, and this is for both the Air Force and Air Defense, but for each structure - its own modification of the basic model.

Quote: ramzay21

Oh how! You probably don’t know that the MiG-35 costs 45 million and the cost of the Su-35 under contracts is around 100 million, but you probably have some other laws of mathematics in which the difference in price 2 times is only 25%.

The price of the MiG-29 at $45 million is one of those times when the price of the Su-57 was estimated at $30 million.

The price of this new fighter, created literally from scratch (taking into account the accumulated experience), is about $ 45 million. This is even more expensive than for one fifth-generation Su-57 fighter (about $30 million), probably for this reason the Ministry of Defense is in no hurry to shell out for more MiG-35 purchases, preferring the modernization of existing fighters to the production of new ones.

As for the cost of the Su-35S, it seems that this is not the net price of one aircraft, but the contractual cost of supplying a batch as a set, divided by the number of aircraft.

The cost of the Russian aircraft includes weapons, spare parts, ground equipment and personnel training.

Quote: ramzay21

Do Bombordier and Macdonald Douglas know that they produce aircraft with an archaic rear-engine layout?

Here about MD is you in a subject remembered. Of all the more or less large rear-engines, they only had the Boeing 717 left - and those are out of production and are being actively written off. And the company itself was so successful that in 1997 it was taken over by Boeing.

[Andybuts]

Here about MD is you in a subject remembered. Of all the more or less large rear-engines, they only had the Boeing 717 left - and those are out of production and are being actively written off. And the company itself was so successful that in 1997 it was taken over by Boeing.

And what about the takeover of McDonnell by Douglas Boeing and the MD-80/90/95 program? What does the rear engine layout have to do with the company's problems?
the rear arrangement of engines is a sign of the times, taking into account the peculiarities of the operation of the first generations of civil jet aircraft.
And the MD-80/90/95 program could not affect MD in any way - it was too small on the scale of the company. The end of the Cold War with a decrease in military orders sentenced MD, and the company was finished off by the MD-11 program with a three-engine installation, which turned out to be unsuccessful or untimely in history (and the Tristar L-1011 and DC-10 / MD-11 turned out to be unsuccessful programs from a commercial point of view, losing competition to the B-747 family and the progressive twin-engine A-300/310 and B-767).
Passenger aircraft with rear engines are still being produced, albeit in small quantities - Embraer ERJ, Bombardier CRJ, COMAC ARJ21. Aircraft are regional, not mainline, but are produced. They have their own area of ​​application. The problem of the same Tu-334 was not in the location of the engine.
ps Boeing 717 is just MD-95.

[ramzay21]

have been optimized. smile

Well, this is another matter, it is better not to call it.

The price of the MiG-29 at $45 million is one of those times when the price of the Su-57 was estimated at $30 million.

The Poghosyans could have estimated a new plane at 3 million, if only they allocated money, so do not retell these tales. Only the MiG continues to cost about that much (the exchange rate in 2011 was 35 rubles per dollar and salaries in dollars in our country were much higher than now), but the Su-57 for 30 million has never been.

As for the cost of the Su-35S, it seems that this is not the net price of one aircraft, but the contractual cost of supplying a batch as a set, divided by the number of aircraft.

This is the export value of the Su-35, just like the export value of the MiG-35. We can only compare this cost, since the cost for our video conferencing is classified information.

Here about MD is you in a subject remembered. Of all the more or less large rear-engine engines, they only had the Boeing 717 left - and those are out of production and are being actively written off.

This is an amazing argument. Firstly, this is the same plane and it still flies. Secondly, twin-engine aircraft with an engine under the wing of the A-300 and the Boeing 757 are also no longer produced, but this does not mean that the design with the engine under the wing is outdated.

[Andybuts]

In fact, under the wise leadership of Tupolev, the civil aviation industry lagged behind the Western one by a generation

And Andrey Nikolaevich, what does it have to do with it? he died in 1972, when the backlog was not yet critical. He was not responsible for the development of engine building in the country, a very serious problem for Soviet aviation. He was not responsible for the airfield infrastructure and equipment, which dictated their requirements. He did not even know that the oil crisis would come in 1973, which would increase the price of kerosene, and even more so, he could not even think that the country's planned economy would be replaced by a market economy. His Tu-154 was quite an excellent aircraft for its age, especially for those requirements that were important for Aeroflot of those years.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: ramzay21

the most massive fighter in all countries where the leadership of the country, the army and the air force is friends with the head is just a light fighter, that is, the MiG-35.

Well, the MiG-35 is no longer a light fighter ... "thanks" to it, the concept of "medium fighter" appeared in disputes! I also had to read such that the cost of the MiG-35 is "not much less" than the cost of a heavy fighter! I do not argue that the MiG-35 is good for "its time"; but this time is already running out ... or gone! For various reasons, but the MiG-35 "missed the train"! Does it make sense "because of all the forces" to reanimate this aircraft? Then how did the Checkmate project come about? Maybe you should not get hung up on the search for and accusations of envious people, pests; and focus on the accelerated "bringing to mind" Checkmate''-and? PS And for any company (KB) MiG, it’s a pity and there are big doubts about the expediency of the actual "liquidation" of the famous Soviet / Russian brand!

[ramzay21]

Well, the MiG-35 is no longer a light fighter ... "thanks" to it, the concept of "medium fighter" appeared in disputes! I also had to read that the cost of the MiG-35 is "not much less" than the cost of a heavy fighter! I do not argue, the MiG-35 is good for "its time"; but this time is already running out ... or gone!

It is half the price of the Su-35 and these two aircraft are of the same era.

For various reasons, but the MiG-35 "missed the train"! Does it make sense "because of all the forces" to reanimate this aircraft? Then how did the Checkmate project come about? Maybe you should not get hung up on the search for and accusations of envious people, pests; and focus on the accelerated "bringing to mind" Checkmate''-and?

Given that the Su-57 went into production, it would now be reasonable in Komsomolsk-on-Amur to gradually stop the production of the Su-35, focusing on the production of the Su-57, continue the production of the Su-30SM2 in Irkutsk and simultaneously start the production of the MiG-35.
This will make it possible to saturate our Aerospace Forces with fighters, for the same amount you can buy twice as many aircraft and maintain competencies in the production of a light fighter. Moreover, the MiG-35 is not much inferior to the Su-35.

The Su-75 is still a mock-up, and as practice shows, it will be better for our VKS if it has a similar project from the MiG Design Bureau. The presence of competition always has a good effect on the final result. When the light fighter is ready, its production can be easily launched at the MiG plant instead of the MiG-35, at least there will be experienced specialists who have gained experience and stuffed bumps on the MiG-35.

And can you imagine how much easier it would be for our Aerospace Forces if we now had not 100 Su-35s, but 50 Su-35s and 100 MiG-35s, and this is for the same money.

[Horfrost]

[quote = ramzay21] [quote] And can you imagine how much easier it would be for our VKS if we now had not 100 Su-35s but 50 Su-35s and 100 MiG-35s, and this is for the same money. [ /quote]
The fact of the matter is that if it were so, it would be easier. And the moment was really worth that much money. And so it would have turned out at the output of 50 Su 35 and 60-65 MiG-35. And if the moment would have had not a modified afar, but an old but modernized beetle, then it would be better for the Su 35 to be on duty in the air.
In order to have an instant of 35, he really needs to be twice as cheaper, and in operation too. And given the fact that almost the same equipment is used as on the heavy one, the price is not much lower than the heavy one. (Mig 35 is 20% cheaper than su 35, and is comparable to su 30 due to the fact that the series is small)
Are instants cheaper to operate? Logically, if you think about it, then no, they also have a pilot, staff, two engines, and if you fly far or for a long time, you need external tanks.
The Migars needed not to compete with the f-15, su 27, but to create their own further version of the f-16, instant 21. They say in the councils this could not be done because of the care for the concept of two engines ... Well then, after the collapse, something like rebuild and not make the 29th heavier with a new airframe, fuel and climb back into competition with the su 30th, but make a really light aircraft based on the 21st.
It turns out that in our country there is no light (medium) fighter at all, but there is a main one (Su 35,30, + now they will also make Su 57.)
Is the number of 300-450 such fighters enough for a country of the size of the Russian Federation?
- moment 31 and 29 are working out their resource, they will be replaced by Su 30,35, 57, from moment 31 it’s understandable (he retires, maybe he’s still working on his resource for 10 years, daggers are vilified),
but the 29th, if in a fancy version it costs like the Su 30, and 20 percent cheaper than the Su 35. Will it make sense to make it too? It's a double-edged sword
it is clear that it is better to be rich and healthy and have another + 500 instants, but taking into account their cost, 100 sous 35 is better than 120 instant 35, because there is less trouble with those services, and possibly in conflict
the level that is happening now in Ukraine, the MiG-35 coped with its task and a larger number of aircraft saturated even more sorties of the Aerospace Forces, but here there are also questions as a smaller combat load,
duty time, worse radar, and God forbid new versions of the f-16, which will already level the capabilities with the enemy.
We will cover the sky and work on the ground su 30,35. bombers are su 34, assaults are su 25, is it still worth bothering with a medium fighter, dispersing efforts to increase the number of airborne forces by 20%, losing in quality?

[Revolver]

Quote: ramzay21

heavy fighters are only in the air forces of India, China, Saudi Arabia and Japan

As well as Israel (F-15), Iran (F-14), and if you search, you can find more.

[Sergey Kuzmin]

judging by what has been written, corporate competition has come into conflict with STATE interests. It would seem that state structures should have their say here - the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces ...

[Dock1272]

What MO and GSh. Here they should work in conjunction with the Ministry of Internal Affairs (corruption), the FSB (sabotage and possible treason, as an example of Chubais), and military counterintelligence / prosecutor's office (the case directly concerns the country's defense capability)

[UAZ 452]

This article is just one of the manifestations of competition.

[svp67]

MiG-35 is in no way inferior to F-16

??????? The MiG has a load of 7 tons, the F-16 has up to 10 ...

[Frost]

Again, the F-16, starting from Blok15, increased the power of the power plant by 40% and up to a fantastic 12000 hours in terms of resource (4000 in the base). The MiG-29/35 during its evolution in terms of the power plant has grown by 10% in terms of thrust and resource up to 4000 hours from 1500 hours in the base. That is, the F-16 engine has a longer resource and it is alone.

[EvilLion]

To lift 10 tons, you need a Su-34-sized machine, with a reinforced structure, so don’t write nonsense. The same Su-35 claims only 8 tons, which just indicates that its design is very light, and therefore the performance characteristics are high.

[svp67]

Quote: EvilLion

To lift 10 tons, you need a machine of the dimension of the Su-34, while with a reinforced structure, so don’t write nonsense.

Famously you put the author in his place ...

But the F-16, which is just a light fighter, in the US Air Force, there are more than 1000 pieces. And in general, the universal and cheap "Falcon". Capable of carrying 9-10 tons of weapons at a range of 1 km is the most popular aircraft in the world. At least, that's what they think in 800 countries, which are armed with this aircraft.

Only the author is right. The F-16C Bloc 52, having a standard combat load of 5420 kg, can, however, at the expense of maneuverability, increase it to 9276 kg.
What can he carry...

[svoroponov]

MiG will not disappear as a brand. They seem to have recently been merged with Su into a single aircraft manufacturing corporation. So they are planning to develop or continue some direction, perhaps the development of heavy UAVs or something like that.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: svoroponov

MiG will not disappear as a brand. They seem to be merged

Yes ... there was a message recently that the unification of Sukhoi and MiG within the framework of a single UAC was completed ... Design Bureaus will remain, like their brands! A single "cash desk", intellectual potential will allow at the right time to quickly "emphasize" on current areas, projects! And therefore there is hope that the "transformation" of the Checkmate project into a real development will accelerate!

[certero]

One thing is striking, how a country that knows how to build modern fighters, which literally a few states in the world can do, does not have the fleet of strike drones that we need now.
Can anyone still have doubts that manned aviation as a class has ended as a means of delivering strikes over the battlefield and near rear? Even such a disparate air defense system that remains in Ukraine prevents the operation of our aviation in full

[Wedmak]

does not have the fleet of strike drones that is needed now.

Because they scored on this case. But ... at an accelerated pace they increased the number of reconnaissance ones. The same Eagles are already in commercial quantities. By the way, did you come across information before the NWO that Orlan can carry a combat load in the form of 4 VOGs? I just recently saw - quite a factory container, also with reset options. Not much, of course, but still.
On drummers: the plant for the production of Orions is reaching capacity. There will be many soon.

[Foul skeptic]

The same Eagles are already in commercial quantities.

In such commodity ones that the Orlans, which were taken from the Ministry of Emergency Situations, were already used.

[vadimtt]

The drone does not have a pilot, therefore, it needs to be replaced with an advanced autopilot and high-capacity reliable communication channels. And this is already on the issue of domestic microelectronics, which is extremely undeveloped and barely fits into the requirements of UAVs (especially light and ultralight) in terms of computing power and weight, and even then, in places using "counterfeit".

[Vladimir61]

It was not the comparison of aircraft that interested, but the author's "debunking of myths" -

Artem Mikoyan, the founder of the design bureau that created many MiGs, was a very mediocre aircraft designer

with representatives of the Sukhoi company, led by the evil aviation genius Mikhail Pogosyan.

Yeah ..., it remains to finish the historical moments - "Plywood from Polikarpov," Tupolev "Copier" and the like. And we all attack professional historians - they screwed everything up, rewrote and turned it over ...

[ermak124.0]

Throwing manure into the past is the current very popular brand, no wonder.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Vladimir61

Yeah ..., it remains to add historical moments - "Plywood from Polikarpov," Copier Tupolev "and the like.

And polish from above with another "evil genius Yakovlev".

[Ros 56]

Nobody knows how it will end in the end. Man proposes, but the Lord disposes. Many thought that they were with their ideas for centuries, but the reality turned out to be much, much more diverse.

[kristAl]

The Su-35 "sees" further than the MiG, but the MiG is an order of magnitude cheaper. In the case of combat use, light fighters of the MiG-35 type are more profitable. They do not cause such financial damage in case of loss, their failure is easier and faster to compensate.

Do you compensate pilots too?
Taking into account the specifics of our serial purchases, when cars are taken at a minimum, they must be taken at least in quality
And yes, the dry one has three plants where mass production has been established, does MIG have at least one enterprise where it will be possible to mass-produce the MiG-35, or do they need to be built practically from scratch?

[shurshun]

MiG's lack of the necessary infrastructure is the result of wormy market decisions. Under a true government approach, both firms must be in a perfectly combat-ready position.

[Filxnumx]

If you remember how the MiG was created, then the current finale is quite natural. Chimeras don't last long.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The RAC MiG should work, the MiG-35 should be delivered to the troops, in addition, the air wing of our aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov will be based on it.

+ export prospects, not every country is able to shell out 70-100 million dollars for the Su-30/35, but for 40 it’s quite possible to take the MiG-35.

[2 Level Advisor]

1. the latest version of the American F-16 is $35-40 million. The parameter for comparing two fighters is the cost of one hour of flight time for the MiG-35 - $15,6 thousand, and for the F-16, allegedly $12 thousand (which is logical with 1 engine )
that is, it’s not more expensive for foreigners to take an F-16, but cheaper .. and taking into account a bunch of programs from minke whales with the sale of used equipment upgraded to a modern level at a discount of up to 30-40%, it’s even noticeably cheaper .. MIG can only make sense for those countries where pilots on MIGs fly old and do not need many planes ..
2. the cost of the su-35 according to a bunch of sources is from 60 to 100 million .. I think 60 is for our Air Force .. i.e. even if an instant-35 costs 40 million .. there is no special sense for ours, so the subsequent multi-year operation of various types will "eat" all the difference ..
3. I think you need something like a su-75 instead of a mig-35, in the format of a fighter-bomber, to take on the functions of a front-line fighter + the use of high-precision weapons on the ground near the front line .. this will reduce the load on the su-34,24 and will allow you to smoothly write off the Su-24s (which will be written off so soon), while freeing up the Su-34s for cruise missiles, KAB or the use of a mass of "cast iron" from a height and in the rear .. i.e. their grouping is actually already enough and you can concentrate on light IS, only really light, and not "medium" like instant-35 .. but if you start from the cheat code for endless money, you need to produce everything and more - it's a pity this doesn't happen in life .. at least in the Russian Federation ..

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

1. The latest version of the American F-16 is $35-40 million. The cost of one hour of flight time for the MiG-35 is $15,6 thousand, and for the F-16, allegedly $12 thousand.

BOSH all your calculations!!!

Bulgaria paid $8 billion for 16 F-1,256s. Yes. this is with training, etc., but the fact is that the F-16 does not cost $ 40 million apiece.

The MiG-35 has engines with an increased resource of up to 4000 hours, and savings on one engine led to the fact that every 16 aircraft crashed among all F-6s produced.

A simple example - Poland had about 50 MiG-29s and almost the same number of F-16s, and so the Poles fly the MiG-29, because most of the F-16s are on the ground due to lack of spare parts and other things. The Poles themselves write about it. For some reason, the Poles did not write off their MiG-29s after receiving the F-16, but on the contrary, practice has shown that these still Soviet MiG-29s are much more practical than the F-16, and there is nothing to say about the new MiG-35.

Well, if you take the cost of the Su-35 for the domestic market not at 100 million dollars apiece as for export, then the MiG-35 will also cost less, especially with an increase in the series.

The MiG-35 is a proven multi-role fighter, while the Su-57 is still a prototype that has not even taken to the air and it is not known when it will rise.

In the USA, they are not in a hurry to write off the F-18, but leave it to serve in parallel with the F-35, and I think we should not bury a ready-made light fighter for the sake of another project that still does not know how it will show itself.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Bulgaria paid $8 billion for 16 F-1,256s. Yes. this is with training, etc., but the fact is that the F-16 does not cost $ 40 million apiece.

where does Bulgaria with the MOST expensive deal - and not only the planes themselves were sold ..
Example 1. Russia delivered to China all 24 Su-35 multifunctional fighters. The project will be completed in 2020. Earlier it was reported that the deal cost China $2,5 billion. does this mean your Su-35 costs more than 100 million on average?
2. Reuters sources said that in order to modernize its air force, Turkey wants to buy 40 F-16 multirole fighter jets worth "billions of dollars" from the US. The source did not name a specific amount. Considering that the F-16, according to the international aviation portal AeroTime Hub, costs from $ 30 million (old modifications) up to $64 million (Block 70/72 modifications), the total contract value can be estimated in the range from $1,2 to $2,5 billion.

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

The MiG-35 has engines with an increased resource of up to 4000 hours, and savings on one engine led to the fact that every 16 aircraft crashed among all F-6s produced.

Do you think 4000 hours is a lot?

Quote: Hoarfrost

Again, the F-16, starting from Blok15, increased the power of the power plant by 40% and up to a fantastic 12000 hours in terms of resource (4000 in the base). The MiG-29/35 during its evolution in terms of the power plant has grown by 10% in terms of thrust and resource up to 4000 hours from 1500 hours in the base. That is, the F-16 engine has a longer resource and it is alone.

I don’t see any reason to talk about crashed at all - in the 90s and early 2000s, MIG-29 flew disproportionately less .. about the Poles and old MIG-29s against modern f-16s - I also don’t see the point of arguing - Migi-29s from the 80s - modern f- 16 are superior simply due to time ..

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

In the USA, they are not in a hurry to write off the F-18, but leave it to serve in parallel with the F-35

The F-18 is rather just an analogue of the su-35, not an instant-29 (35) at all, and it was never considered light ..
but how much used ones cost - and not quite ancient "October 16, 2018, 23:13 - REGNUM On October 11, one F-16 fighter-bomber was destroyed at the Belgian Air Force base Floren, the second F-16, standing nearby, was also damaged .
The reason is that a technician performing maintenance on another F-16 accidentally activated the 20mm Vulcan cannon. The F-16 fighter, which got into the line of fire, caught fire instantly and exploded. It was fueled and ready for the upcoming flight.
The nearby aircraft was also damaged by this explosion. The cost of the F-16 fighter-bomber is 19 million.
Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2501952.html."

and in general .. we will not buy f-16, but I think it makes no sense to argue that the light su-75 will be cheaper and no worse than the average mig-35 ..

Now about the main idea that I wanted to convey, but you did not catch ...
I didn’t say anywhere that the MIG-29 (35) is a bad plane .. it’s good. BUT. I repeat.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

if we proceed from the cheat code for endless money, you need to produce everything and more, it’s a pity that this doesn’t happen in life .. at least in the Russian Federation ..

he doesn’t have it now, in our time, there’s no niche in the Air Force or money for it, IF you do the su-75 ... otherwise, as I understand it, you are against the su-75 and for the MiG-35 instead of it for the next XNUMX years?

[Wedmak]

in addition, an air wing of our aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" will be based on it.

Will not. After the repair, Kuznetsov will wear out the existing fleet of aircraft and after a few years it will all go to the museum. Hope.
I don’t understand why this cruiser is being repaired. This money could be invested in more useful pieces of iron.
And given the construction of two UDCs, in general, the issue of aircraft carriers goes ten years into the future.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Yes, MIG is not needed from the word at all. MIG aircraft for the poorest, in battle has no chance against SU. It is better to make a new attack aircraft to replace the Su25.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

It is better to make a new attack aircraft to replace the Su25.

Su-39 finalize and forward ...

[shurshun]

You fought on the MiG-35?!

[shurshun]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

Yes, MIG is not needed from the word at all. MIG aircraft for the poorest, in battle has no chance against SU. It is better to make a new attack aircraft to replace the Su25.

Did you fight on MiG against Su? Everyone who loosened their tongues here, humiliating the MiG -29/35 and praising the zoo of dry aircraft, are stupid cormorants.

[Sibguest]

"But alas, in our country, the possibilities of behind-the-scenes solutions to all problems are more important..."
Dear author, state issues are resolved in this way in any BIG (villages like the Micro-Baltic ones are not considered) state. There is no need to make a freak out of RUSSIA once again - what is the European peninsula and the government of the United Fascist States of America - the whole world already sees.
And KB MIG, I, an aviation engineer, feel sorry. And sorry for the engineers. Maybe the design bureau will find reserves for the development of fundamentally new solutions in military aviation. Good luck to them.

[FoBoss_V]

But this logical finale of what happened should be blamed on the top leadership of the country. It was necessary to clearly delineate the competencies of the design bureau, who are light fighters, who are heavy, who are attack aircraft, who are front-line bombers, and who are strategists, who are bad and drill. And in our country, all these enlargements and mergers into huge corporations only bring harm to the country and its defense capability. You can lose everything in ten years, but it takes decades to assemble and develop a design school in the direction. But such transformations bring good profits to a limited circle of certain individuals, apparently they are lobbying for interests. It is a pity that Putin sees and knows all this well, but nothing is being done to correct the situation. The same is true of yours in helicopter aviation, armored vehicles, the Navy, marine instrumentation, etc. etc.

[anclevalico]

WELL, another result of the reign of the "guarantor". 22 years to move mountains. The result - the oligarchs and all sorts of funds stuffed with loot to the eyeballs and the "economy" without money.

[K-50]

MiG-35: flight range with load - 3 000 km. Combat radius - 1000 km.
Su-35: Speed ​​2500 km/h, Flight range - 3 500 km. Combat radius - 1 800 km.

Somewhere here "the dog rummaged".
The ratios of range and combat radius do not converge.

[Dock1272]

removed from the tongue. also noted)))

[Sanyav_72]

Logically, the double combat radius should be greater than the flight range, because it is assumed that the aircraft returns without load. And here it turns out that the moment 35 is still being loaded before returning)

[K-50]

Quote: Sanyav_72

Logically, the double combat radius should be greater than the flight range, because it is assumed that the aircraft returns without load. And here it turns out that the moment 35 is still being loaded before returning)

Maybe on the contrary, the combat radius is slightly less than half of the flight range?
And you don’t have to “boot”, it’s not clear where and with what.
Here, "drying" does not fit, from the word at all.

[riwas]

When there are many targets over a larger area and they are less protected by air defense, then having a large number of cheaper aircraft makes it easier to complete the task of destroying them. It was not in vain that Sukhoi took up the Su-75 light fighter.

[Grits]

Quote: riwas

It was not in vain that Sukhoi took up the Su-75 light fighter.

He just realized that Mig did not grab this niche and decided to bypass Migovtsev at the turn. Migovtsy themselves are to blame for their inertia

[shurshun]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: riwas

It was not in vain that Sukhoi took up the Su-75 light fighter.

He just realized that Mig did not grab this niche and decided to bypass Migovtsev at the turn. Migovtsy themselves are to blame for their inertia

For the last XNUMX years, MiG has been beaten on the hands and not allowed to grab onto anything, as soon as they let them work on their own machines. And those who did it, in fact, are at least pests.

[Dimon-SPG]

The bestial grin of capitalism, crush a competitor and cut money, and don’t care that there will be 1 fighter manufacturer in the whole country, no competition, no new developments ....

[Nikolaevich I]

MiG sorry!

Walled up, demons!

[Daverk]

the height of idiocy to fuck Mig!
however, few people doubt the mental incapacities, let's call it that, of our government and command ....

[Vladimir Michailovich]

But what does the rejection of Mig really mean?
1. The closure of the production of engines for them, namely the RD-33 / 93 line. The enterprise manufacturer of these engines - (MPP named after Chernyshev) was destroyed, and a residential complex will be built on its site. TV-7-117 was also produced there, and this means abandoning the production of IL-114, IL-112 and Mi-38.
2. The Russian Federation is finally losing the market for light fighters, in which Mig, at one time, was in the lead.
Deliveries of engines for this market segment are controlled by the American GE-Rafale, Grippen, Tejas, South Korean and Japanese projects.
Few people remember now that Pogosyan, being a lobbyist for GE and Boeing, flunked the entire program for creating light single-engine fighters, draining the market to the Americans and the Chinese. According to the same scenario, the production of An-38 in Novosibirsk and TVD-20 in Omsk was liquidated.
3. The process of creating new models of aviation equipment is finally monopolized by ROSTEKH with all the negative consequences that follow from this - in the form of a drop in quality - an increase in prices.
The conclusion is the refusal to develop a line of light fighters is a crime, and carried out in the interests of foreign capital.

[neworange88]

And who told you that someone refuses the MiG-35?

[EvilLion]

This is Skomorokhov, he lives in his own world.

[TreeSmall]

Quote: Author

Radar "Irbis" is an order of magnitude more powerful

Well, well, yes, 200 km vs 400 km (this is what the mathematicians meant, as they introduced “order”

Su-35 "sees" further than MiG, but "MiG" much cheaper.

Those. I understand the author correctly wonderful MIG-35 costs $4-7 million?
Or is he (the author) again confused in three (pines) orders
I think with such a price tag it would be snapped up like oil at $ 40 today.

[Sergei 777]

It's sad of course. But I wouldn't make such sad faces. Where are Po's planes now? Lagg? They are not here. It's just that design bureaus fulfilled their historical mission and went into oblivion. I think it's the same with MiG. I hope the work on the new interceptor will slightly correct the situation.

[Siberian54]

The Yak left, an incomprehensible dull MS remained .. Apparently the MIG will also leave .. There is a stubborn cleansing of Soviet brands, the SU will also be removed

[NOMADE]

Will Po - "Poghosyan *

[Grits]

Quote: Siberian54

The Yak left, an incomprehensible dull MS remained .. Apparently the MIG will also leave .. There is a stubborn cleansing of Soviet brands, the SU will also be removed

And before that there was "Myasishchev" ... Next in line is Tu, Il. We will remember about An only if we take Kyiv.

[Grits]

The once legendary Tu

[Grits]

humble yak

[Grits]

Almost gone Il

[Grits]

Once the "king" of MiG fighter aircraft

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Gritsa

Once the "king" of MiG fighter aircraft

MiG-3
They were the same...
MiG-1
MiG-5\DIS prototype
MiG-6 just drawings
MiG-7 prototype
MiG-8 Duck

Communication plane.
MiG-9

First jet MiG.
MiG-13

First Soviet all-metal. Prototype.

[Grits]

Well, diverse Su

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Gritsa

Well, diverse Su

Su-2 bomber.

Su-47

[cat Rusich]

[quote = cat-Rusich] [quote = Gritsa] Well, diverse Su
[/ Quote]

Su-80
Made 3pcs, stand at the factory site in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

[Grits]

Quote: cat Rusich

Su-80
Made 3pcs, stand at the factory site in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

Didn't even know about that. Cool bird.

[EvilLion]

In general, this whining has already lifted. Anyone who understands even a little about Russian geography and aviation understands that the basis of the Air Force will inevitably be long-range interceptors, and in conditions when it is necessary to cover a large area of ​​light fighters, more light fighters are needed, as well as bases for them, which levels out the difference in unit price. It was the same in the USSR, and the Su-27s were mostly on the territory of the RSFSR, which is why Russia itself received much more of them than the rest of the republics, but only 330 MiG-29s. The MiG-29 was not pushed back by intrigues, but by the liquidation of the Air Force and Air Defense, as separate structures.

True, I have not heard any information about the closure of the MiG-35. The Su-75 is a long story, and the concepts of building the Air Force after the Z-War will inevitably be revised. They may also consider that at a distance of 500 km it is unprofitable to carry a ton of bombs on the Su-34.

[loki565]

A flash is needed, a cheap light fighter, but it must be with one engine and a new, inconspicuous fuselage. The ideal option is if dry completes the Su75 and transfers production to the Mig, this will allow not to divert resources from the production of the Su57 and allow the moment to stay afloat.

[Aviator_]

Followers of Mikoyan outright lost the duel with representatives of the Sukhoi company, led by the evil aviation genius Mikhail Pogosyan.

Poghosyan has nothing to do with this, he only ruined the Tu-334 with his "Superbudget".

[Genry]

The Superjet was designed in the main development mode. And the Tu-334 is a side development from the Tu-204, and most of it was supposed to be made in Ukraine and the engines that would be with now .....

[loki565]

The Tu 334 is inferior to the superjet in all respects, and the same amount, if not more, has been pumped into it. Yes, and the rear location of the engines and the T-shaped plumage is the last century.

[Aviator_]

The Superjet was designed in the main development mode. And the Tu-334 is a side development from the Tu-204, and most of it was supposed to be done in Ukraine

You are very wrong about the Ukrainian component of the Tu-334. There were only dviguns from the Sumerians.

[Aviator_]

The Tu 334 is inferior to the superjet in all respects, and the same amount, if not more, was swelled into it

Work on the "Superbudget" has begun with full readiness of the Tu-334, it was even certified. And he did not earn his name "Superbudget" from scratch. The GSS office had no experience in creating civilian equipment at all, and there are a lot of subtle things there. In addition, the Pogosyanovsky airplane had and has a huge% of foreign components.

[loki565]

Tu334 already died at the project stage and no one is to blame for this. The T-shaped tail increased the weight of the aircraft compared to competitors, plus attempts to unify and push the wing from a medium-range aircraft finally worsened flight performance. Well, the cherry on the cake is a bloated crew, which does not fit into modern realities. And as for certification, it’s also not so simple there, no one has ever seen a real certification of a serial product, not to mention international certification)))

[Rutrick]

Where does the Mig35 speed information come from at 2600 km / h? It seems to be 2400-2450, but this is not the point. Where is the price information from? It was stated that the moment 35 in bucks comes out to almost 45 million, while the su35 is like 30 (well, here it is, because the real numbers are not known). The aircraft is not much smaller than drying, there are two engines, there is no UVT - therefore, maneuverability is worse than that of the Su35. The thrust-to-weight ratio is worse than that of the Su35. In short, it is not entirely clear why to produce a variety. Radar and electronic warfare equipment is almost the main thing in a modern aircraft. It would be better to give the RSK MIG, for example, a project for the modernization of the su30SM and its unification with the SU35 (su30cm2), and then deploy production at their facilities. Also, according to Su 57, further work in terms of the competition must be divided between Sukhoi and Mig, let them compete, improve the design. And production for competitive purposes is tedious to start at 2-3 factories. (According to the budget of 30-50 bots per year, the Russian Federation would have easily pulled it out, at least before). You just need to remember that the defense industry is about efficiency, creativity and the defense of the homeland, and not about property rights, show-offs and money.

[Rutrick]

However! Despite the fact that the Mig35 is not as successful as the Su35, the design approach itself is clearly more reasonable. In fact, in one building, with a minimum of alterations, it is possible to implement a single and double aircraft. To something like that, dry only comes with its su30cm2. And if they immediately made su35 / su35D? It was possible to expand production at KNAZ and in Irkutsk and Novosibirsk (abandoning the highly specialized su34), as well as, for example, in Lukhovitsy. And we would eat 300-400 of the same type of cars with excellent characteristics without any problems. 400 boards in ten years is only 40 boards a year! Already in the post-Soviet period, the aviation industry showed much better results. And such a series would help reduce the cost of the aircraft and competition between factories would be possible.

[mmaxx]

Do you even understand what it means to put such an aircraft into production? This is 3 years with 200% financing and involvement of other plants. And so, all 5. And all for the sake of an obsolete morally aircraft.
With the Tu-160 it is still somehow clear. The other does not shine yet. And then ... And there are sanctions. So some equipment is simply impossible to buy. And we don't have it. And not expected

[Rutrick]

You may have misunderstood me. I'm talking about the fact that it was tedious to do it right away, and not now.

[Dedok]

I didn’t read the article completely, there’s no point in typing numbers: but history repeats itself - whoever is closer “to the body” is right ...
sad that decisions are made in political offices
the same situation is now in the helicopter industry, who will survive? - apparently the one who has "more rights" ...
by the way, we lost our entire aircraft industry due to political decisions / intrigues

[alexmach]

and history repeats itself - whoever is closer "to the body" is right ...

Weird Comments.

the same situation is now in the helicopter industry, who will survive?

There are chances for both of them. Mi is a monopoly on transport workers and you can’t do anything about it. Ka seems to be showing himself well as a striker, plus they have a niche for carrier-based helicopters. It looks like both will survive. Well, except that by a strong-willed decision, the Milevtsy will pull everything over to themselves.

[P_Petrovich]

I hope that the MiG will not disappear completely, in order to achieve better results, competition between different design bureaus is necessary.

[Genry]

Quote from: P_Petrovich

to achieve better results, competition between different design bureaus is necessary.

Here the UAC competes with all sorts of global / enemy aircraft manufacturers.

[Genry]

The author is stuck in the last century.
Why do we need an obsolete 4 ++ generation MiG-35 if there is a transition to the fifth generation?
When the announcement of the light Su-75 appeared (the heavy Su-57 is already being produced), the song of the MiG-35 was sung!

[d4rkmesa]

The transition is coming... and going. Looks like it's stuck somewhere too.

[Maks1995]

IMHO, they wrote on VO that the MIG costs almost the same as the SU.
and what for then you need a slightly reduced and degraded variation of the control system for the same money

How much earlier there were wins and pathos in the articles: Algeria will buy, Indonesia will buy, India will buy, etc ...
wins everyone, kills everyone...

But the truth is that with "effective managers". no one really needs a reduced version of SU for the same price. Neither Russia, nor over the hill.

[Genry]

Quote: Max1995

But the truth is that with "effective managers". no one really needs a reduced version of SU for the same price. Neither Russia, nor over the hill.

The Su-75 has not yet taken off, and you are already talking about its sales?
And the statement "no one needs", in this context - just ....

[Maks1995]

Did you read the article? It's about Mig...

on the contrary, it would probably be logical that Migu would be handed over by single-engine or marine, but ....
capitalism-imperialism, no luck

[Glory1974]

Under Stalin, they knew how to count money like never before, but under him there were always competing structures. Various design bureaus in aviation, aircraft, MiG, Yak, etc. The technique in the series launched the one that is better. After the war, competition remained even in the conditions of a non-market economy. Both aircraft builders and shipbuilders, etc. competed. Specialization gradually emerged, for example, Kamaz - highway trucks, Ural - off-road equipment. In general, I think that several companies and design bureaus, in this case MIG and SU, under one wing in the short term, it may be more economical, but in the future it will slow down development.

[Dedok]

Quote: glory1974

under Stalin, they knew how to count money like never before, but with him there were always competing structures. Various design bureaus in aviation, aircraft, MiG, Yak, etc.

so history repeats itself: there was an I-185 - it became La-5
the same political intrigues

[alexmach]

Under Stalin, they knew how to count money like never before, but under him there were always competing structures

Forgive me, but you are missing the obvious things. Under Stalin, aircraft were produced by the thousands. Now, at best, dozens (and by the way, this is so not only from the absence of Stalin, but also for quite objective reasons too) and where on this scale of production is there a place for many design bureaus?

[Glory1974]

I write about principles, in this case competition. Blindly copying someone else's success is pointless, you need to adapt it to yourself. Because, yes, maybe you are right and the volume of production will not allow it. But how to make it develop without competition? You can compete with foreign design bureaus, but not under sanctions.

[Glagol1]

And where does the information that the 35th died come from? Is there a government decision to terminate the program? The installation party in the troops, recently ...

[Woodman]

It has been said more than once that the MiG is an air war worker. By the way, the conflict in Ukraine showed this. The light fighter is the best vehicle for fighting at close range and at high speeds.

On what is this assertion based? I mean, not that "it has been said more than once", but that "the conflict in Ukraine has shown this"?

[Dedok]

in general, one gets the impression of getting rid of "dissent" in the military aircraft industry ...
understand, alternative views are needed, and military actions - they will judge whose thoughts were correct ...

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

Unfortunately, such trends have been around for 30 years. Remember the riflemen of the Kovrov Design Bureau. A wonderful machine gun and a machine gun for Special Forces were simply leaked. How many pistols were adopted instead of PM? Where are they? If we say that they were all flawed, then let's remember the history of the AKM, which, being put into service for 10 years, was brought to mind.

[Denis Minakov]

Clueless aircraft.
"It has been said more than once that the MiG is an air war worker. By the way, the conflict in Ukraine showed this. A light fighter is the best vehicle for fighting at close range and at high speeds" - is this about Ukrainian MiGs?)) )
It's a terrible commercial for an airplane.
Everything is worse in it, but almost like drying.
Cross for a moment put the fight in Ethiopia-Eritrea.

[Dedok]

Quote: Denis Minakov

it's about Ukrainian moments

and how much we lost SU, do you know?
from the air defense of the Soviet period ...

[Denis Minakov]

This is a military secret!

[Viktor Sergeev]

I'll tell you a secret, the losses, if any, are simply miserable, otherwise the Ukrainians would dance every time. Su does not enter the air defense coverage area, this is not their job.

[Devil13]

Not enough, for unsuppressed by massive air defense strikes

[shurshun]

Quote: Denis Minakov

Clueless aircraft.
"It has been said more than once that the MiG is an air war worker. By the way, the conflict in Ukraine showed this. A light fighter is the best vehicle for fighting at close range and at high speeds" - is this about Ukrainian MiGs?)) )
It's a terrible commercial for an airplane.
Everything is worse in it, but almost like drying.
Cross for a moment put the fight in Ethiopia-Eritrea.

If you are so smart, then explain in more detail why the MiG-35 is not like you.

[Denis Minakov]

In short, because it’s not su 35

[shurshun]

Quote: Denis Minakov

In short, because it’s not su 35

Well, if you "argue" like that, then the Su-35 is generally down, because it's not the MiG-35.

[Denis Minakov]

There is no need for a second plane that is worse. The Russian Federation is an extremely poor country, I believe we cannot afford waste.

[shurshun]

Quote: Denis Minakov

There is no need for a second plane that is worse. The Russian Federation is an extremely poor country, I believe we cannot afford waste.

By the way, the country is very rich, primarily in natural resources. The number of hundreds of millions of yachts of the Russian oligarchy and officials exceeds the number of fifth-generation cruisers and aircraft combined, trillions of assets offshore and outside the country. The question is exclusively in the government of the country, in the quality of this government and in whose interests it is carried out! This is in-1. Secondly, to say unfoundedly that the MiG-2 is worse is nothing. To this I can just as well say about the Su-35. But I will say differently, the MiG-35 in air combat, at least, is more than a worthy rival to any domestic and foreign fighter of 35 (+/++) and even 4 generations. Thirdly, on the example of Rafal, the MiG-5 in the proper configuration can and even should be the main multi-functional fighter for both the army and the navy. The expensive "zoo" of dry 35 generations can and should be closed. And finally, the state, in the interests of high defense capability and military-technical superiority over a potential enemy, must have more than one company for the creation of fighter aircraft and at any cost must preserve the MiG company by setting appropriate goals and tasks for it.

[Denis Minakov]

I don't want to be the devil's advocate, but you really make me. By the way, do you know how many of these yachts? How many trillions are offshore. Do you know the accounts of the surname?
Or does it just seem like a lot? Management is really such a thing, sometimes you wonder at the decisions of some magistrates. As for wealth, by what criterion do you compare? Because there is too much? I advise you to look at the budgets of countries and see who is rich and who is not. 25 trillion rubles is a rather low figure. In addition, our external debts as of April 1, 2022 amounted to $57 million. The volume of the state internal debt of the Russian Federation
thousand rubles

As of 01.06.2022

Government internal debt of the Russian Federation, total
16 619 899 208,4
including:

state guarantees of the Russian Federation in the currency of the Russian Federation
(732) 240 320,1
There really isn’t much money, besides, I suspect CBO costs a pretty penny, like any CBO actually does. Why is it unfounded, their characteristics are known, well, ok, a worthy opponent. This means an aircraft that does not excel, but which has a chance. Now this is not enough. And not so expensive, by the way. I have no complaints or hatred for Mikoyan's design bureau, they just lost the competition.
Moreover, they lost even before the moment 35 and su 35.

[shurshun]

About yachts and the rest "honestly derived" is known not only to me, but to the whole world, by last name and by name. This is in-1. With regards to the state of the country at the moment, then of course I completely agree, to put it mildly, it is not comme il faut. If for more than a dozen years you have been cultivating an exclusively parasitic resource-based economy, and at the same time losing even the competencies that were in the USSR, then of course the country will never truly be either strong or rich, except for the "ghouls" that have already been mentioned .. This in-2. At -3., MiG as a firm has never essentially lost the competition to dry. At one time, he was deliberately taken out of the game by wormy opportunistic decisions. Thanks to the Mig-29, at one time the T-10 / Su-27 was literally saved by him from death, as a product, becoming the standard for the Su-27 in terms of aerodynamic layout. Now with regards to the superiority of the MiG-35,. Following your own logic, I have the right, at least, to also say about the Su-35 that it also does not surpass the MiG, but only has a chance. But this chance, in an air battle against the MiG-35, is not high for him. And by the way, this chance turned out to be completely zero for the Su-35 in the battles against Rafal. The cost of the Su-35, according to data from open sources under several foreign contracts, is almost 2 times higher than the cost of the MiG-35.
From all this, I can conclude that the Su-35 is actually ineffective against the same Rafal, potential insolvency against the MiG -35 and, ultimately, the absolute uselessness of such an expensive and inefficient aircraft for the country's air forces. And I already spoke about the dry zoo earlier.

[Denis Minakov]

I hope you didn’t get the cost of an instant 35 from Wikipedia where the price of 2011 is indicated. How much does an instant 35 cost? Wouldn't it turn out that if you ask for a lard for the plane, it will turn out that you need another pollard, then another. Of course, instant 35 and su 35 did not fight among themselves and apparently will not have to. But their predecessors fought in Africa, and conclusions can be drawn. Well, this is a training battle, it is strange to draw any conclusions from them. Well done Rafal used the reb on time. Rafal is 2 times more expensive by the way. What conclusion can be drawn here? The radar station needs to be modernized. Unless, of course, he immediately noticed it, and did not attack because the scenario of this battle did not provide otherwise. I do not approve, but you never know. The most significant result is the fighting in Ukraine, how many Su 35s did they shoot down in air combat 1? And how much did you lose? As for the effectiveness, it will be possible to judge at the end of the SVO and summarizing the results.

[shurshun]

Do not think that those who conducted test fights
and choosing between Rafal and su-35 were idiots. The result is obvious. As for training / test battles, this is the only and most correct criterion for evaluating and choosing the best option in peacetime. And I believe that it is absolutely necessary to conduct such battles between the MiG-35 in the proper configuration with each representative of the "zoo" of the dry, in order to dot the e. At one time, this was done between the MiG-29 and Su-27, where the MiG-29 "unwound" the dry one with overwhelming superiority, so much so that Simonov shit out of fear, and behaved unworthily vilely in relation to the MiG-29 and the company in in general in the future.

[Denis Minakov]

This is where the pilot of the moment said that if he were sitting at the drying wheel, he would do the same

[shurshun]

Numerous fights were held at different distances, and not just one fight, where someone said something later.

[Denis Minakov]

In a test battle, he won a moment and in a real battle su 27 in three collisions and I note su 27 attacked a couple of instant 29 and won in all collisions. This is by the way that you can take 2 minutes for one drying. The launch range above the speed above this turned out to be enough.

[shurshun]

The initial data of these battles are unknown to me. I don’t know the tactical conditions, or the equipment of the opponents at the beginning of the battle, the class and skill of the pilots are unknown. Therefore, I will not comment, it will be incorrect.

[shurshun]

It was necessary to upgrade earlier before poking into tenders with the old avionics. Do you take everyone for fools? As a result, they themselves were left in the cold, with an insolvent aircraft in service and
and the country with the worst defense capability in relation to the potential enemy. For this, everyone must be held accountable, and under Stalin they would have been shot for this. Therefore, the Su-35 is retired with all its supporters, and the MiG-35 is in service with the army and navy!

[shurshun]

I don’t like the price of the MiG for 2011, recalculate for today, it will be even cheaper. On the account of "it will not work out," then apply this approach to the price of dry.

[Denis Minakov]

In general, for clarity, ours could make 10 instant 35 and try them out in Ukraine. On the other hand, their air defense would most likely have shot down and the pilots would have died.

[shurshun]

All the same, you and others like you are very afraid of the MiG, if so hurry to shoot it down and bury it along with the pilots. And if you are afraid, then you know and feel that he is stronger and cooler! Be afraid more!

[Denis Minakov]

he doesn't threaten me

[shurshun]

That's right, but you're still afraid.

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

All our problems from the frightening dimensions of corruption from the bottom to the very top. So many wonderful weapons, including those already adopted, are simply fucked up because of corporate games and greedy officials in uniform. And here again the war, and we again with long outdated weapons. Again the BMP-2, again the old rifle, again the guns of 30 years ago, again the equipment at our own expense and the help of volunteers. Just like in 2004 when I assembled myself for a business trip.

[not 1]

The MiG-35 is capable of fighting on equal terms with all existing vehicles of a potential enemy. Yes, “4++” is almost “5”, but almost

no need to fantasize. This is a regular modernized 4th generation aircraft, i.e. 4+.

It would be hard for a knowledgeable person to say that the MiG-35 is a modification of the MiG-29. Yes, this is a development of the model, but it is so radical that in reality it is a different aircraft.

Not true. The radar is an old BEETLE, but a little refurbished. The engine is conceptually the same RD33. There are also big questions regarding OLS.
Generally speaking, I’ll express a seditious thought - Mig35 is not far from Mig29smt

- reduced radar visibility;

highly doubtful.

The Su-35 can rely on earlier detection and longer-range missiles.

The missiles are the same. Both have RVV SD (or P77) for ranged combat. Of course, they will immediately announce the R-37M, but there are almost none of them in service and it is not very clear how much the Su 35 can use them, except for a few experimental launches

Speed ​​2600 km / h,

The maximum speed there is about 2M, they usually indicate 2100 km/h.

By the way, the plane has become loose, the empty weight seems to be about 12 tons. And this is closer to the F15 and F18 modifications. This is a hint that it’s time to compare not with the F16.

At the same time, the engine is still a modification of the RD33 (variant of the RD 33MK). They wanted to develop the RD43 in the 90s with a thrust of 10 tons somewhere. It didn't work out. I had to install RD 33MK, not because of a good life. The thrust-to-weight ratio of the aircraft in terms of thrust/empty weight was very average, noticeably worse than the Su 35.

The new radar didn't work out either. Still SHAR. There are also issues with OLS. In the midst of all this darkness, a ray of hope seemed to flash - they showed that there would seem to be a hanging container! But something tells me that no container is being produced anyway

[mmaxx]

Everything is correct. And everything makes Mig a corpse.

[shurshun]

This is a whole zoo of zombies. Expensive and inefficient kerosene tanks.

[shurshun]

Su-35 is the same modernization of the Su-27. Moreover, it is no longer relevant. The Su-35 sucks in terms of avionics. The old generation radar is easily blinded by electronic warfare. Leaked all the test air battles to Rafal. Expensive and ineffective for air combat.
MiG -35 radar with AFAR, like Rafal. Everything worked out with the radar. And they would have brought him to his senses and would not have ruined him, if not for the lobbying and stupid decisions at the top in favor of the dry kerosene cows of the “zoo”. The MiG-35 will unwind anyone from this zoo in a dogfight. It is very easy to prove this by conducting test battles, as smart people did when choosing between the Su-35 and Rafal. Mig-35 is the best domestic multifunctional fighter. It should be the main IFI for the Russian Aerospace Forces and Navy. And the dry zoo and its patrons resign.

[km-21]

A modern light fighter should be:
- Cheap to produce and maintain;
- Single-engine;
- Having a good ratio between its own weight and the weight of the combat load;
- Relying on a powerful production and technological base capable of ensuring the production and servicing of products in large quantities;
- Have high export demand.

Alas, the MiG 29/35 does not meet these requirements, since it was originally developed to meet the requirements of the 80s of the last century. At that time, no one calculated the economic parameters and commercial prospects of this aircraft. Therefore, today there is an urgent need to revise the concept of a light fighter and bring it into line with new requirements.

[shurshun]

How do you define lightness? And why should a fighter be single-engine?

[shurshun]

You have listed mutually exclusive requirements for new technology.

[AlexSam]

Quote: ramzay21

stop production of the Su-35, focusing on the production of the Su-57, continue production of the Su-30SM2

Why is the Su-30SM2 better than the Su-35?

[mmaxx]

This is a multi-role aircraft.

[shurshun]

Yes, it’s high time to deal with the dry zoo.

[Viking1966]

As planned, the SU-16 Checkmate should become an analogue of the F-75. Lightweight single-engine, and therefore cheaper to produce. Talks about the merger of MIG and Sukhoi, similar to the merger of Kamov and Mil, have been going on for a long time. As Volodin said yesterday regarding the merger of Social Insurance and the pension fund, “In this way we will reduce the bureaucracy, and the people working on the ground will remain there...” But this does not work in the design business.
In general, I think it’s too early to give up on the MIG. In addition to the MIG-35 and MIG-29, there is also the MIG-31 and a promising long-range interceptor, in the creation of which MIG has no equal yet.

[Grits]

Quote: Vikking1966

and a promising long-range interceptor, in the creation of which MIG has no equal yet.

We haven't heard anything about its creation. It looks like nothing like this is even being done.

[Viking1966]

type PAK DP and read

[DenVB]

New aircraft without stealth are not needed, that’s absolutely certain. Except stormtroopers.

What we really need is a stealthy single-engine fighter-bomber. It is quite possible that without bells and whistles such as fifth-generation engines and AFAR. It should be light and cheap. It’s hard to say whether the Su-75 will become like this, we’ll wait.

But the MiG-35 is, ideologically, a machine from the 80s. Like the Su-34, which was not really needed against the barmalei (the Su-24 would have been enough there), but turned out to be useless against the outdated Ukrainian air defense.

[squid]

"weight 27.5 tons"
Well, how “light” is he after that?! It is clear that this means maximum take-off, but in terms of this indicator it has grown to the early Su-27 and is not fundamentally different from the Su-35. Note to the author, “an order of magnitude difference” is 10 times, not 20%. and all this on generally old engines, as I understand it, without power supply. The price most likely corresponds to the weight. At the same time, the Su 35 dominates in everything - range, load, radar, etc. The advantages of the MiG are only a certain “cheapness”, very conditional if you take into account the need for the Air Force to maintain and maintain 2 models of a fighter of the same generation and not just one. the moment was born by plane 4+ when the dry one is already finishing 5th!
although, of course, monopolization of the country’s domestic market by one company, to put it mildly, is not good. We cannot, unlike some Swedes or British, allow the purchase of foreign fighters. which means that the dry one will have no one to compete with and the usual story for monopolies will begin - slowness, “mastering of funds”, shifting deadlines and other delights.

[shurshun]

The Su-35 does not dominate the radar, but downgrades it. With his avionics, he miserably and disgracefully lost test battles and tenders to Rafal. The MiG-35 has an AFAR radar as standard, just like the Rafal. This is number one. In -1, the advantage in range and payload is absolutely worthless and does not mean anything if the fighter loses in a dogfight! That is, the Su-2 is insolvent in the most important thing for which it was created in the first place! To load up and fly far away so that you can die there safely is not an advantage, it is a shameful failure and inferiority! There is only one way to justify this, to admit that the Su-35 is not a fighter, but a bomber.)) But then it is no good as a bomber, since there are bombers that have both a larger payload and a longer range)). This is third. And once again the last thing. If a fighter cannot successfully fulfill its main purpose - to win an air battle, then all its advantages in certain characteristics no longer matter! And the reasoning here by the sectarians of the dry “zoo” about the advantages of its inhabitants according to some characteristics is absolutely empty chatter and verbiage!

[AlOrg]

Oh, these bath strategists. So we are floundering in the SVO as a result of all these bath decisions

[Victor Tsenin]

>They do not cause such financial damage in case of loss, and their failure is easier and faster to compensate for.

The point here is that the price of the MiG, according to numerous reports in recent years, is quite close to the price of the Su. Those. This MiG is good for everyone, but, as I understand it, the Russian Ministry of Defense, based on the cost factor, decided to unify it towards the Su-35, in this case.

[alexmach]

The talk about behind-the-scenes games and competition among design bureaus is somewhat surprising. At the same time, they turn a blind eye to the fact that Russia only buys about a dozen multirole fighters a year. At the same time, some of them are already obsolete. Is there room for competition here?

In addition, those who advocate the Mig-35, of course, mention that he was late, but they somehow forget to say how late he was. An aircraft with a slot antenna, when the enemy went into mass production of the F-35 and besides, on 4th generation aircraft, AFAR is hardly even needed.

[mmaxx]

Regardless of the life of Mikoyan's company. Mig loses to Su catastrophically. And what kind of close combat is the author writing about? Will someone go into close combat if they can kill Miga from afar? Now it's a suicide car. And what does money have to do with it?

[shurshun]

Quote: mmaxx

Regardless of the life of Mikoyan's company. Mig loses to Su catastrophically. And what kind of close combat is the author writing about? Will someone go into close combat if they can kill Miga from afar? Now it's a suicide car. And what does money have to do with it?

The Su-35 also tried to take down the Rafal from afar. As a result, I was overwhelmed myself! The MiG, due to its size and weight, is inferior in some ways, but also superior in some ways to the Sukhoy. With standard avionics, which should be on the MiG-35, this is at least a worthy rival to any domestic or imported competitor. Moreover, using the example of the same Rafal, the MiG -35 can be the main multi-role fighter for the army and navy. And the expensive zoo of dry 4(+/++) can be safely sent to retirement and to a museum.

[mmaxx]

On paper, maybe. and yes. But in life, he is not superior at all. Now it will lose the fight to any modern aircraft. It flies beautifully, but as a weapon system for air combat = 0.
M. b. if they brought it up like Mig-23 for eleven years, then there would be some sense. But now... his time has passed, unfortunately.

[shurshun]

Quote: mmaxx

On paper, maybe. and yes. But in life, he is not superior at all. Now it will lose the fight to any modern aircraft. It flies beautifully, but as a weapon system for air combat = 0.
M. b. if they brought it up like Mig-23 for eleven years, then there would be some sense. But now... his time has passed, unfortunately.

About the MiG’s zero performance in air combat and the fact that it will lose to any modern aircraft, your statement is at least unfounded. Did you fight with all these planes on it? So far, the Su-35 is losing these battles miserably and disgracefully to the same Rafal. And the time of the MiG has not gone anywhere, just as the time of neither Rafal nor the F-15/16/18 has gone. The same “clever guys” from the UAC and the defense department are simply trying with all their might to get away from the dry thing because they are and have always been afraid of the MiG.

[mmaxx]

All his electronics are simply inoperative. And before it was far from being the limit of perfection. Unfortunately, I won’t tell you the source. But not because it doesn't exist.
Simply put, the Mig will be slammed because it is beyond its detection range of anyone. And neither his own nor ground-based funds will help him.

[shurshun]

Quote: mmaxx

All his electronics are simply inoperative. And before it was far from being the limit of perfection. Unfortunately, I won’t tell you the source. But not because it doesn't exist.
Simply put, the Mig will be slammed because it is beyond its detection range of anyone. And neither his own nor ground-based funds will help him.

I don’t want to offend anyone, but what you say is not just idle talk, it’s a lie and slander. I see that I really want to give you wishful thinking in an undignified manner.
The MiG-35 is the best domestic multifunctional fighter and should be the main one for both the army and navy of the country!

[shurshun]

Quote: mmaxx

On paper, maybe. and yes. But in life, he is not superior at all. Now it will lose the fight to any modern aircraft. It flies beautifully, but as a weapon system for air combat = 0.
M. b. if they brought it up like Mig-23 for eleven years, then there would be some sense. But now... his time has passed, unfortunately.

About the MiG’s zero performance in air combat and the fact that it will lose in life to any modern aircraft, your statement is at least unfounded. Did you fight with all these planes on it? So far, the Su-35 is losing these battles miserably and disgracefully to the same Rafal. And the time of the MiG has not gone anywhere, just as the time of neither Rafal nor the F-15/16/18 has gone. The same “smart guys” are simply trying with all their might to get away from dry because they are and have always been afraid of the MiG and the same smart guys from the UAC and the defense department.

[Russian Patriot]

A sad fairy tale with an unhappy ending.
What happened to the MiG enterprise after the collapse of the USSR is not even a fairy tale. This is a tragicomedy.

[d4rkmesa]

Mig-35 could have taken place, but, unfortunately, it turned out to be of no use to anyone and is not visible behind more priority programs. The same AFAR radar, the last mentions of FGA-35 and FGA-51 were at the end of the last decade - apparently, all development was stopped. But it was possible to make something like the Gripen radar, yes, small, but superior to SCHAR in all respects, but the Swedes succeeded, but not for the MiG. It was also possible to sell it to the Indians when they had problems with China on the border, but it also didn’t work out. Sighting containers seemed to be present there “in the database”. As a result, now in the Northern Military District there is no overwhelming superiority of Russian aviation, which consists almost entirely of Sukhoi aircraft (although this would have seemed incredible to me last year). You shouldn’t really count on the Su-75; it’s a kind of Su-17M4, with approximately the same overload restrictions. But we need something like the Mig-21. The F-35 in ruforums is often considered a slow-moving and vulnerable pepelats, although the Su-75 will definitely not surpass it, everyone has seen the characteristics from the exhibition. It will fly approximately like the PAKFA before it became the Su-57, with noticeable limitations. Well, this is all my IMHO.

[Common sense]

But alas, the plane did not “come to fruition.” And the reason for this was not some shortcomings of the MiG-35, but elementary corporate battles under carpets and on bath fields.

And then they will bite your elbows again...
I don’t know, but in my opinion this is absolute sabotage and betrayal, and for this you should be sent to the DPR to be shot.

[Puzoter]

The MIG, in comparison with the F16, has one, but decisive drawback - two engines. For a light fighter this is unreasonably redundant.

[Common sense]

Quote: Vikking1966

As planned, the SU-16 Checkmate should become an analogue of the F-75. Lightweight single-engine, and therefore cheaper to manufacture

But it’s unlikely that it will actually turn out to be cheaper, and it’s still unclear when this will happen. And the MiG-35 is already available.

[Skipper]

What about the MiG-41??? So the company is still alive...and they gave it what they had legally won - the interceptors.

[g1v2]

Banshee gets the comparison wrong. It is still not correct to compare the Mig35 front-line fighter with an air superiority fighter. But with su30cm it’s fine. It was the Su30cm that killed the Mig 35. This is a full-fledged heavy fighter at a price probably a third higher than the Mig 35, which is no longer light, but medium. Why do we need instant 35 if we already have the su30cm, which has been tested and supplied for years? Why should the army create a zoo and arrange logistics and repair organization for another type of fighter that is not particularly needed? And of course, the presentation of the Su35 finished off the moment. A full-fledged fifth-generation light fighter with unification with the Su75 heavy fighter. Well, why, in such situations, instant 57? The only option was export orders, and for the sake of them they wanted to purchase a mig35 regiment in order to have an export perspective. But customers don’t line up, so there’s no point in purchasing for themselves anymore.

[Mint Gingerbread]

He's not going anywhere. It will be necessary, they will arrange the release. This is a freeze, not a rejection of technology. The howl rose to the skies.

[LVMI1980]

let's compare it with the Yak 130

[spyder100]

The cost of creating, operating air and military equipment and training personnel for it today is such that the most optimal seems to be the presence in each class of ONE basic model of equipment (without taking into account modifications). So, you don’t need three types of main tanks, two types of combat helicopters, two types of fighters, two types of infantry fighting vehicles.
As for aviation, abandoning the MIG-35 seems advisable due to the lack of economic possibility of simultaneous development of the “heavy” and “light” fighter branches. In addition, SVO results show that a fighter with a more advanced radar usually wins. The MIG is inferior to the SU in this regard; the Ukrainian MIGs could not do anything against the Su-35 in the air and were shot down by missiles from a long distance.

[Dedok]

Quote from: spyder100

The cost of creating, operating air and military equipment and training personnel for it today is such that the most optimal seems to be the presence in each class of ONE basic model of equipment (without taking into account modifications)

when you read something like this, you remember the optimization of the Ministry of Defense according to Serdyukov;
or what the Bologna Convention gave to the “state budget” - a reduction in expenses by at least 25%
What are you about???
and to compare crawling and flying - well, this is completely in the spirit of Serdyukov

[Horfrost]

The Su 35 is simply modern; if the Mig 35 had participated in Ukraine, it would also have shot down the outdated Mig 29.

[3danimal]

What is the F-15? This is an all-weather fighter-bomber capable of performing approximately the same range of missions as the Su-35.

But the F-16, which is just a light fighter

Important:
The F-16 flies, in fact, on the same engine as the F-15. Which reduces the cost of production and maintenance.

[3danimal]

- reduced radar visibility;

How is it reduced? Are coatings used?
What prevented you from changing the design of the air intakes, similar to the F-/A-18E/F, so that they partially covered the compressor blades? This is a proven and effective solution.
F-18C and F-18E:

Mig-35:

Everything is sad with the radar, of course.
“Soviet microcircuits are the largest microcircuits in the world.” I assume that one of the reasons for the failure of the MiG-35 was the inability to create an analogue of the radar of the latest modifications of the Hornet, Rafale or EF-2000

[gvozdan]

It is very doubtful that the F16 will carry 9-10 tons over 1800 km. Most likely, 9-10 tons is an overload with half-empty tanks, and a distance of 1800 km means full tanks and two short-range explosive missiles.

[Pavel57]

By the way, few people know, but the last six general directors of RSK MiG JSC were from JSC Sukhoi Company or JSC Irkut. That is, direct competitors.


The turning point for the company was the reign of R.A. Belyakov, who gave the palm to Simonov.

[Dedok]

Quote: Pavel57

By the way, few people know, but the last six general directors of RSK MiG JSC were from JSC Sukhoi Company or JSC Irkut. That is, direct competitors.

yes and this happens
but remembering history - the fates of Petlyakov or Myasishchev - these were milestones in our aircraft construction and from scratch
but here they apparently gave away what was not needed

[TatarinSSSR]

Well, this is clear, there is no money, which means the plane is not needed... Although they were so effectively promoting it for export, it was really a no-brainer. If a light twin-engine fighter is inferior to the Rafal (the recognized standard of this class), it really is not needed. And what about the much-hyped CheckMate and its queues of customers? When will these queues of secret customers show up in any way?

[Mobik]

Yes, you just got it right, a moment is cheaper ... The most expensive thing in a modern aircraft is avionics, a pilot, engines and engine maintenance, and here a moment has no cardinal advantages. And the niche of fighters for the poor has already been staked out by China, light fighters for poor democracies for f -16. In principle, our military would not have abandoned the aircraft, so that it would be like 35, but with one engine, but even here the cursed Pogosyanites fussed.

[bang]

The problem with the MiG-29/35 is its twin engines. If it were single-engine it would have prospects.

[Puper driver]

MiG-29, Su-27 are F-16, F-15. Light and heavy, respectively. The F-16 is alive and well. And ours under the knife?

[ratcatcher]

“It’s a pity, but our Ministry of Defense does not understand that it is necessary to produce both the MiG-35 and Su-35.” - absolutely true. Well, the actual destruction of one of the oldest design bureaus in the country is not a big deal...

[Grancer81]

In our Ministry of Defense there are “boots”, and the “boot” is always higher than the boot....
For a boot, an airplane is just a cannon that carries shells further than cannon artillery and MLRS. And a ship is something like a boat that should sail wherever their majesty boots indicate...

[APASUS]

In the battle between Mikoyan and Gurevich and Sukhoi, the Sukhoi firm won. In general, of course, it is good that Sukhoi Company is doing very well. Fighters, bombers, passenger liners... AO MiG has virtually no place left on the market.

It was not the competition that won, it was the manager who won. Strange things are happening in Russia now. By Soviet standards, they could have been shot for this

[Pavel57]

Quote: Aviator_

The Superjet was designed in the main development mode. And the Tu-334 is a side development from the Tu-204, and most of it was supposed to be done in Ukraine

You are very wrong about the Ukrainian component of the Tu-334. There were only dviguns from the Sumerians.

And a serial plant in Kyiv.

[Zaurbek]

At the time of the creation of these samples, each Civil Code was a lobbyist for its own interests....and the Moscow Region set tender conditions that were not entirely clear. Hence we have 3 tanks, two attack helicopters... and such situations in aviation... inside the Sukhoi Design Bureau itself, each plant does what it wants. as a result, we have Su34, 30, 35,57 and are moving towards 75..... It turns out that the one who lost the competition still received the state order.

[Joker62]

There is no need to bury the car ahead of time like the MiG-35 ahead of time. And yet, there is no need to create confusion about the merger of two companies like Sukhoi and MiG. Each one remains with its own design schools; only the number of superfluous management links changes. Industrial sites remain in their places, with their current tasks.

[Vladimir Yurievich]

Sad news. However, there is nothing unexpected here; underdeveloped capitalism strives for the fastest possible monopolization in all industries where possible, without thinking about how deadly this monopolization can be, especially when it comes to the military-industrial complex. In this case, the main issue is the need for competition between aircraft design bureaus, a constant competition of ideas, different approaches to solving problems. Look at our main “partners” in the dangerous capitalist business, you will see three (!!!) powerful groups competing in the military aircraft industry: Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and Boeing.
The Russian Federation's approach to aviation development is a road to nowhere. In a word, “capitalism-happiness-pray”...

[sergey ivanov_21]

It’s hard to believe that the Su-35 costs as much as ten MiG-35s, as the author writes here: “The Su-35 “sees” further than the MiG, but the MiG is an order of magnitude cheaper.” In general, the “far-sighted” Pogosyan has done a lot of crap in the Russian aviation industry by lobbying Western manufacturers, and isn’t it time to “give him what he deserves”?!

[wladimirjankov]

At KB MIG, strange people came to the management who had nothing to do with aviation, who were not busy developing the company and creating competitive aircraft, but with personal enrichment and cutting up budget money. That’s why they haven’t created anything new or worthwhile in 30 years. They couldn’t even bring the modernization of the MIG-29 (35) to fruition. And the Sukhoi Design Bureau was lucky, they had a pogosyan who did not allow this company to degrade like the MIG Design Bureau. And foreign customers bought aircraft from Sukhoi, not Mig, who simply had nothing to offer them. But our army really really needs a light fighter like the F-16 or Raphael. But the MIG-35 is already hopelessly outdated. Even our generals don’t want to buy it.

[Ruslan Sledkov]

Good review. I have been to many MAKS. And the MIG35 visually looked faster in flight than the dryer, less inertial. This is a consequence of smaller dimensions and weight. Perhaps this is the optimal fighter in size and weight. Maybe just increase the engine's thrust...