In the shadow of the "great revolver"

47
In the shadow of the "great revolver"
Revolver "nagant" was a regular for a very long time weapons officers of the Russian imperial army, which was also reflected in cinematography. Whatever film about the events of 1914-1917 you take, all the heroes use it, and, of course, we have the same thing in films about the civil war. There are simply no number of them. Here, for example, is a frame from the movie "Red Square" (1970)

“Few people associate the word “revolver” with the name of the Belgian weapons manufacturer Nagant in Liege, who at one time produced a successful design of a new system combat revolver. This word has become so rooted in the Russian language that in colloquial philistine speech it has long begun to mean "revolver in general", regardless of its device; non-military people often call so not only revolvers, but even automatic pistols: “snatched a revolver”, “shot from a revolver” ... "
"You and your name", Lev Uspensky, 1960

Weapon stories. The noisy success of the Nagant revolver, and not only the revolver itself, but also the company of the Naganov brothers, understandably closed the eyes of many to its shortcomings and how, in fact, it came to us in Russia. And the point here is by no means only in technology, but in a whole series of other, "accompanying circumstances." Firstly, Nagan was known in Russia after the famous epic with a rifle in 1891. After all, then he, in fact, won the competition, and only a number of specific features of the Mosin rifle, and above all its great cheapness, caused Nagan to lose. He lost, but still participated in its adoption as a technologist, transferred to Russia all the patents he received for it, the technology for hardening trunks, and equipment drawings. Without all this, it would then have been installed for production for so much time ... and so, with his help, everything went much faster, for which he received 200 rubles.

*
Before the First World War, the completeness of "revolvers" in the Russian army was 97%, that is, they were a little lacking. But on the other hand, a "revolver", and not of a Tula, but of a Belgian assembly, could easily be bought![/ Center]
So those who in our country were responsible for the rearmament of the army were well aware that they could rely on the Naganov company, and that it would not let you down with its “Belgian quality”. It only remained to draw up the performance characteristics and get the finished product from him under them. And such requirements were drawn up and included a number of points, among which, according to tradition, was the point that a revolver bullet should stop a horse from 50 steps. Well, then there was cavalry, and horses, like people, had to be killed without fail, and certainly from 50 steps! However, already at that time such a weapon as a revolver was considered in the Russian army more as a status weapon, rather than a combat one. Hence the reduction in caliber to rifle, although it would be more logical to stop the horses with a 9-mm caliber bullet, and the ultimate simplification of the reloading system. Like, seven rounds, my brother, you have enough for your eyes to solve all your problems, but you didn’t decide - here’s a saber that hangs at your hip - chop the enemy with it and die a hero. That is, the main criterion was, first of all, the cheapness of this type of weapon and the simplicity of its “fabrication”, and not at all any particularly outstanding fighting qualities.




Revolver Henri Pieper model 1886 with a folding drum. Right view. Such a revolver could well be in service with the Russian army. Photo http://littlegun.be

That is why a number of very interesting revolvers remained in the shadow of the “revolver”, which could well have been in service with our army and would have proven themselves no worse in it, but they didn’t hit and therefore couldn’t show themselves.


Revolver Henri Pieper model 1886. Left side view. Photo http://littlegun.be

In particular, Henri Pieper's very good revolver remained in the shadow of the revolver. We have already talked about this gunsmith on the pages of VO, but now we will dwell on some of his samples in more detail. The fact is that it was Henri Piper, and not the Nagan brothers, who came up with the idea of ​​​​creating a revolver with complete obturation of gases from the drum when fired. Before him, a partial “exhaust” from the gap between the barrel and the drum was a recognized feature of this weapon and, perhaps, its most important drawback, because not all gases went into the barrel, which was reflected in the “battle force”.


Henri Pieper revolver model 1889. System with a drum advancing on the barrel. View from the left. Photo auctions.morphyauctions.com


The same revolver. The T-shaped protrusion on the barrel gave it greater rigidity and strength. Right view. Photo auctions.morphyauctions.com

And so Pieper came up with a cartridge with a bullet recessed into the sleeve and a crimped muzzle, which, being inserted into the revolver drum, protruded quite a bit from this same muzzle. At the moment of pressing the trigger, he gave the drum forward exactly 2 mm, but this was enough for the drum to press against the breech section of the barrel, and this most crimped muzzle was inside the barrel. By advancing the bullet, it was distributed to the sides and pressed by powder gases to the bore, so that the breakthrough of gases was completely excluded.


Pieper also produced such revolvers “especially for ladies” with ivory grips and engraved curlicues. Well, the market is the market! Photo http://littlegun.be

Pieper patented this system, and later produced revolvers of models 1886, 1890 and 1893. But in general, from 1861 to 1896, he received 69 patents in the field of machine tools, guns, revolvers, cartridges and gearboxes, as well as gun barrels, alloys, various cartridge magazines and machine-gun belts, etc. And then the validity of Pieper's patent is simply expired, was not extended, which was what the Nagan brothers took advantage of. By the way, Piper and Nagan met during a competition held in the Russian Empire, when the Nagan revolver was adopted for service. Piper was a competitor of Nagan, but his revolver, as more complex and expensive, was not accepted in Russia. They were adopted by ... Mexico, where revolvers of the 1893 model of the year and nine-shot revolver carbines based on it got into service, where they were used until the 1920s.


Revolver Henri Pieper for Mexico. Model 1893. Photo http://littlegun.be


Revolver carbine Henri Pieper model 1893 for Mexico. Photo https://www.icollector.com


Revolver carbine Henri Pieper model 1893 for Mexico. "Hunting Option" Photo https://www.icollector.com

And there were also experimental revolvers of the Austrian company Steyr, model 1893. In total, about 100 of them were made, mainly for testing in Austria-Hungary. These two examples are early examples with the Pieper gas seal system, in which the barrel is pushed forward when fired, and an extra long case seals off the gas leakage between the barrel and barrel. This slightly increases the muzzle velocity by eliminating gas leakage in the drum gap, but this is achieved at the expense of additional complexity of the revolver design and greater trigger pull.


Swiss experienced revolver "Steyr" 1893 Photo poulinauctions.com


The revolver was distinguished by its original finish - black bluing of the body and a golden coating on the drum, which made it very elegant! Photo poulinauctions.com


Front view. The lever that folded the drum is clearly visible. Photo poulinauctions.com

In addition to this system, the Steyr 1893 had a folding drum and a central extractor, which made reloading quite fast for that time. He, like the Nagant revolver, held 7 cartridges of a slightly larger 8 mm caliber. A later version received a fixed drum and an "Abadie door" through which it was loaded. But none of them were adopted. Instead, they chose the model of the Rasta and Gasser revolver of the 1898 model of the year.


This is how this Swiss revolver lay in the hand of the shooter. Photo forgottenweapons.com


A drum with a manual extractor made it possible to quickly discharge the revolver. Photo forgottenweapons.com


In order to gain access to the mechanism of the revolver, it was necessary to unscrew only one screw with a large cap. Photo forgottenweapons.com


And here is its internal structure. Photo forgottenweapons.com

Why he so seduced the Austrian military is not clear. Is it the greater capacity of your drum?! Even outwardly, it was a very bulky and old-fashioned design. In addition, the power of his 8-mm cartridge was small. But the design of the "steyrov" turned out to be, one might even say, very elegant, in no way inferior in its technical merits to the Henri Pieper revolver. However, for us, that is, for the army of the Russian Empire, it was a very good choice, because in terms of its combat qualities this revolver was almost an exact copy of ... "revolver", and only differed from it in the number of cartridges in the drum, and so to load and unloading it was just as inconvenient and long, and its handle was made in an unsuccessful way. You had to get used to it, but just like that, offhand, it was inconvenient to shoot with it.


Revolver "Rasta and Gasser" M1898. Total length: 222 mm. Barrel length: 114 mm. Weight 1 kg. Drum capacity: 8 cartridges 8x27 mm. Muzzle velocity: 213 m/s. Army Museum, Stockholm

The tests of these revolvers were carried out by the Austrian military in 1897. Possibly the most beautiful military revolver ever made, with a spectacularly profiled barrel, blued barrel and frame, and a blued front sight. In fact, it was these revolvers that laid the foundation for the more common Nagant M1895.


French state-issued revolver of 1887 with the characteristic hallmarks of Belgium, that is, most likely, this is a Belgian copy. And he, too, in all respects is very similar to the "revolver". Photo http://littlegun.be

The fact that they are more perfect than the “revolver” can not be said, as well as the fact that they recharged much faster. Yes, they were more expensive, but not by much. But how many lives were lost due to the slow reloading of the revolver, so no one calculated ...
47 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +11
    5 June 2022 05: 20
    Just a "plus" to the article and the AUTHOR! For? There are few of them? Didn't notice? AUTHORS!
  2. +6
    5 June 2022 05: 29
    Nagan, but I always liked the C96.
    Monument.
    1. +4
      5 June 2022 05: 40
      Quote: BedMax
      Monument

      I love plus! By the way? And why c96? For what?
      1. +3
        5 June 2022 05: 55
        I've always liked Mauser. Since childhood.)
        1. +5
          5 June 2022 06: 01
          Quote: BedMax
          childhood.

          Aaah! I have a revolver! Since childhood. When we lived on Samotyok, there was a story that the janitor hid the revolver. They searched. But? They didn’t find it.
  3. +5
    5 June 2022 05: 56
    Learned a lot. Thanks to the author...
    1. +9
      5 June 2022 06: 17
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Thanks to the author ...

      Olegovich. He is like that. One word, as correctly noted, AUTHOR! There are few of them. hi hi hi
    2. +5
      5 June 2022 06: 30
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      auto RU

      I'm waiting for another one, I hope and believe that the AUTHOR! Anton! He promised an article. Nikolai? Ahhh! Lazy! bullyPetrograder! Joke!!! laughing
  4. +3
    5 June 2022 06: 44
    so that's where the "legs" of the so-advertised obturation system for "blow" revolvers and mts 255 guns "grow" from ... already from the century before last, from Piper! Truly, everything is new, it is a well-forgotten old...
  5. +2
    5 June 2022 07: 05
    For a long time I wanted to ask Vyacheslav: what barrels did you shoot from? Surely an old exotic came across?
    1. +7
      5 June 2022 17: 42
      I had to shoot from an American hard drive in 1895 rearranged for hunting cartridges. I don't know the caliber. I loaded them with my grandfather, chopped buckshot, and then hit the crows in the winter! Shot from a hunting rifle "Sauer" double-barreled, brand "3 rings". From pistols - PPK Walter .22 caliber. That's all, in fact. But in his hands overdone, probably, a whole arsenal.
      1. +2
        5 June 2022 17: 59
        there are 12-caliber Winchesters for hunting cartridges, smoothbore. You can't change a rifle.
        perhaps, by the nature of your service, you will have a chance to fire from some kind of musket or squeaker. What I sincerely wish!
        1. +4
          5 June 2022 19: 17
          Thank you! He held a wheel pistol of the 16th century and an arquebus in his hands, an English dueling pistol too, French cavalry No. 9 ... But, alas, it was impossible to shoot from them!
      2. +2
        7 June 2022 03: 26
        In 1990, while serving in Kazakhstan, I happened to be in the administration of "partisan" training camps held on the basis of our regiment (tank). Conducted classes with those called to the training camp. These "partisans" (some already very old) were from the battalion, which in case of war, when parts of our division were removed from the PPD and went to combat mission areas (and the purpose of our tank division was to strengthen the defense of the Soviet-Chinese border), should mobilize, taking under protection and defense our PPD, and the city where we were deployed ... Such a, by the standards of the Great Patriotic War, a fighter battalion (with the same functions) ... The battalion was armed with SKS, RPD and revolvers arr. 1895 (i.e. "great revolvers"), which for this battalion were stored at the "NZ" warehouse of the RAV of our regiment. And in the machine-gun platoon of the battalion, according to the state, even 14,5-mm PKPs were provided, as far as I remember 2, but then they received one such machine gun for training in materiel and for firing ... So, about the revolver arr. 1895 ... Then, for classes and firing, they received (as far as I remember) 3 dozen revolvers. Of the 30 revolvers, 3 were still with the stamps of the Imperial Tula Arms Plant ... All were fired without any complaints.
  6. +1
    5 June 2022 07: 14
    Flip drum - in a combat situation somehow not very good? Although the revolver also has a flick, or am I confusing?
    And a question for connoisseurs: why exactly 7 rounds in the drum? Not 6 or 8? Were there such revolvers?
    1. +3
      5 June 2022 12: 20
      I'm not an expert :) but I will say
      There were 3 and 5 and 6 about 8 I won’t lie, probably there were, now they definitely are.
      IMHO, everything depends on the dimensions of the drum, which in turn determine the dimensions of the revolver, in thickness and, most importantly, in height. Plus, the space between the axle and the chambers is wasted, don’t block the second barrel! Although this was but not on one-handed weapons.
      Just.
      And 7 turned out to be optimal, even for different calibers, in absolute terms, the difference between them is not great.
      Well, 7 shots is actually a lot.

      As for the revolver with a throwaway emnip drum, there was such an option. The original has a door.
      1. 0
        5 June 2022 13: 43
        The most optimal for a revolver is still 6 charges, this is how many models are designed for.
      2. 0
        5 June 2022 13: 52
        It seems to me that the minimum reasonable number of chambers is 4. There is enough space between them for the drum axis, even if they are close. If you make 3 chambers close to each other - there is not enough space for the axle.
        But 4 rounds is not enough, a pistol has at least twice as much in a clip.
      3. +2
        5 June 2022 19: 20
        Quote: kytx
        everything depends on the dimensions of the drum, which in turn determine the dimensions of the revolver, in thickness and, most importantly, in height.

        Quite right! 6 charges - optimal for 9 (10) mm, 7,5 mm - 7 (8) charges, in a larger caliber - the revolver grows by leaps and bounds.
    2. +2
      5 June 2022 16: 47
      Quote: Roman Efremov
      why exactly 7 rounds in the drum? Not 6 or 8?
      As a child, I read many books by American authors of the early 20th century, ranging from O. Henry's humorous prose about the life of Americans (from crooks and robbers to farmers) and Chase's detectives - so revolvers are often found there, like an ordinary household item, and often just like that are called something like "six-shot pocket artillery". I don’t remember other capacities of drums there. "Revolver", "colt" and "6 shots" - those writers simply have inseparable concepts. After that, the revolver always seemed to be some kind of exotic because of its 7 rounds.
  7. +3
    5 June 2022 07: 14
    Good morning everyone! smile

    Vyacheslav hi , I did not understand what kind of revolver you had in mind here:
    However, for us, that is, for the army of the Russian Empire, it was a very good choice, because in terms of its combat qualities, this revolver was almost an exact copy of ... "revolver"
    ?? request
    1. +2
      5 June 2022 17: 44
      Piper, of course.
  8. +5
    5 June 2022 07: 41

    Here is such a "thing" was offered as 9-charge revolver "Nagant" in one newspaper advertisement in "tsarist Russia"! wink
    1. +4
      5 June 2022 11: 09
      Hello Volodya! smile
      I found a couple of such ads, the model is the same, but the hallmarks are different.




      Well, with the drum removed.
      1. +2
        5 June 2022 16: 48
        Wow!
        What a tall one.
        25 rubles
        Normal like 15
        belay
      2. +1
        8 June 2022 19: 49
        Hello, Kostya! Sorry for the delay in answering; because lately I have been disappearing at a dacha outside the city ... there is still no Internet! Regarding the advertisement about the 9-round "Nagant" and the demonstration of the drum, I can say one thing: Well done! Very prompt! I did not expect that info about the 9-round "Nagant" would be found so quickly! Taking off my hat! hi
        1. +1
          9 June 2022 07: 42
          It turned out to be very easy to find, everything immediately got out. Glad to have pleased. smile
  9. +2
    5 June 2022 08: 53
    Arguing about the need for simultaneous extraction of cartridge cases is simply useless. Everything is obvious. I do not agree that the Austrian mod. 1893 "the most beautiful military revolver". Yes, he is a "hunchbacked freak." Now, if it were a revolver of 1910 with simultaneous ejection ....
    And the revolver is simply elegant.
    1. 0
      5 June 2022 17: 02
      Disagree. Steyr is cute
      But the revolver doesn’t look very good to me.
      American revolvers are much prettier.
  10. +2
    5 June 2022 09: 28
    Nagant and Colt are my two revolver associations. Although there is a colt with a store
  11. +1
    5 June 2022 09: 57
    caliber 7,62 was chosen to unify production with rifle barrels, including the possibility of using partially defective rifle barrels
  12. BAI
    0
    5 June 2022 11: 44
    This is how this Swiss revolver lay in the hand of the shooter.

    The photo is most likely rotated 180 degrees. It is unlikely that the left-hander posed there
  13. +4
    5 June 2022 13: 07
    Can you imagine a report from the scene?
    And then their nobility grabbed his... pepper...!!
    Whether it's a matter, decorously and nobly - revolver :)))
    By the way, at the expense of the Rust-Gasser handle. Then they held weapons when shooting completely differently than they do now, and everything is very convenient for the then stand.
    1. +3
      5 June 2022 16: 18
      And then their nobility snatched out his ... piper ... !!!

      laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing
    2. 0
      7 June 2022 04: 00
      In pre-war films, from a revolver, and the same Mauser, they fired aimingly, placing it on an arm bent at the elbow ...
      1. 0
        7 June 2022 15: 16
        Quote: Storog Dvornik
        In pre-war film

        What they don't show.

  14. +3
    5 June 2022 17: 09
    The article is very good, but they forgot about beautiful premium revolutionary revolvers, we hope to read it in the next article.

    1. +4
      5 June 2022 17: 47
      To be honest, I don't like "decorated" weapons. And one thing is the national Kashgar dagger adorned with turquoise, and another thing is a modern pistol.
      1. +3
        5 June 2022 17: 59
        national Kashgar dagger adorned with turquoise,


        I prefer the Cuban finish



        Hello Vyacheslav hi Emma Grigorievna Astvatsaturyan, an excellent specialist and a wonderful person, was engaged in its research and description, I, unworthy, at one time had the honor to walk in her favorites. smile


        Here is one of her books, yes, you have probably read it.
        1. +4
          5 June 2022 18: 44
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Emma Grigorievna Astvatsaturyan, an excellent specialist and a wonderful person, was engaged in its research and description, I, unworthy, at one time had the honor to walk in her favorites.

          Lucky you. And I had a book. Gave here...
      2. +1
        5 June 2022 18: 04
        A dagger is also a weapon
  15. 0
    7 June 2022 04: 28
    Good article...
    The author did not mention that in RI there were two versions of the "revolver": "soldier", shooting with a pre-cocked trigger, and "officer", in which it was possible to shoot self-cocking by pulling the trigger ... But ... The "revolver" ", with its ability to obturate the cartridge when fired, there was one significant minus, a very tight self-cocking shot, and, accordingly, low accuracy ...
    Therefore, the peers of the "revolver", the classic "Americans" - "SiV" and "Colt" with minor technical upgrades in the design, are still alive, there a self-cocking shot is quite acceptable ...
    Such revolvers "especially for ladies" ...

    Why is it “especially for ladies”, this is a civilian, pocket, self-cocking revolver typical of the late 19th century with a folding trigger and a hidden trigger, so you could get it out of your pocket ... In Europe, everyone was let out and not too lazy ... Cheap, multiply charged dream of an inhabitant ... You have an expensive gift version in the picture ...
    The style is "bulldog" after the name of the English prototype, and there were also "velodogs", for lovers of newfangled entertainment - a bicycle ... Dogs did not like cyclists very much, they strove to tear off their trousers, they had to shoot back ...
  16. 0
    7 June 2022 08: 23
    An article supplementing information about the peers of the revolver arr. 1895 useful. But the author must decide - is Steyr Swiss or Austrian?
    1. 0
      7 June 2022 10: 52
      Steyr is an Austro-Hungarian and Austrian company that existed from 1864-2001. "Swiss" - most likely wrote mechanically.
  17. 0
    27 June 2022 16: 53
    Very informative! Looking forward to the next article.
  18. 0
    26 August 2022 22: 10
    If I go on safari to Jurassic Park, I'll take him as a backup.
    If there is a misfire, then press the hook again. The resource is almost eternal. No fancy shops.
    And in the end, they can just fuck the velociraptor in the snot-weight allows.
  19. 0
    29 August 2022 11: 37
    Each of us had our own options, I shot a 7,62 bullet from a Russian TT pistol, which was unnecessary strong, I really liked the pistol, but Nagant was a revolver for me, although the cartridge was weaker, but Mauser 96 was enough for self-defense. If it was a heavy weapon, I rate it positively. PPK 22 is a very good weapon. My personal weapon was a 7,65mm PPK. I still love guns, so write, I read and enjoy everything. am