In the United States, they started talking about the possible transfer of MLRS HIMARS and Patriot air defense systems to Ukraine

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The allocation by the United States of new assistance to Ukraine in the amount of 40 billion dollars, of which about 20 billion will go to supplies weapons, can move Washington to transfer to Kyiv the American MLRS HIMARS, which have a firing range of up to 70 km. Also, a number of military experts do not exclude that the United States may supply Ukraine with Patriot air defense systems in order to close the sky for the Russian aviation.

A number of publications have appeared in the American press, which talk about the possible delivery to Ukraine of the American M142 HIMARS MLRS, which are significantly superior to the Soviet Grad and Smerch MLRS, which are being built in service with the Ukrainian army, as well as their Ukrainian counterparts. In addition, the American complex can also be used as an operational-tactical one, inflicting pinpoint strikes on important targets. Kyiv has reportedly been trying to get this complex into service for a long time.



However, a number of Western experts, including American ones, are skeptical about the possible transfer of the HIMARS MLRS to Ukraine, and the Patriot air defense system, respectively, calling this option unlikely. No one doubts that these complexes could help the Ukrainian army, but not in this case. Firstly, this is a very expensive and complex technique, requiring long-term training in its use, and secondly, there is always a possibility that part of the transferred complexes will fall into the hands of the Russians as trophies.

The Americans are terribly afraid that their "unsurpassed" high-tech military equipment will fall into the hands of a potential enemy, and he will learn all the secrets. Even the M777 howitzers the Americans managed to deliver to Ukraine without a digital fire control system.

And one more thing that worries Washington very much. The United States does not exclude that the complexes transferred to Ukraine will be used to deliver strikes on Russian territory. And the Americans want to avoid this, at least not to have an official relationship with it.

M142 HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) is a highly mobile operational-tactical missile and artillery system. The system was developed on the basis of the FMTV wheel chassis weighing 5 tons. The basic ammunition for the M142 is MLRS missiles (M26, GMLRS, AT-2 and others) with a range of up to 70 km. In addition, the system can be equipped with a launcher for one ATACMS (Army TACtical Missile System) missile, and can also be used as a launcher for AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles.
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  1. 0
    23 May 2022 13: 30
    Such a "transfer" should automatically jeopardize US territory.
    1. +14
      23 May 2022 13: 37
      This topic was already discussed last week, and it seems to be clear that since there is talk about this, it means that these products are already there or will soon be, since it is not so far to bring patriots from Poland and Romania.
      We need to prepare to destroy them in western Ukraine.
      1. -8
        23 May 2022 13: 39
        We need to prepare to destroy them in western Ukraine.
        40 technologically advanced countries can overwhelm the Banderland with modern weapons in such quantities that Russia will not have time to destroy it.
        1. -3
          23 May 2022 14: 00
          The ratio of the capacities of the military-industrial complex cannot be called good ...
          In World War II:
          Allies: USSR + USA + England + British Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, etc.)
          Axis:
          Germany + Italy + Japan + German-occupied Europe.
          The Allied military-industrial complex was more than 10 times superior to the Axis military-industrial complex.
          And the GDP is many times more.
          1. +2
            23 May 2022 14: 26
            The Allied military-industrial complex was more than 10 times superior to the Axis military-industrial complex.
            And the GDP is many times more.

            belay
            Where did you get such information from?
            In billions of $ in 1990 prices.
            On 1941
            United Nations =1
            Axis =902
            On 1945
            United Nations = 2
            Axes=466
            As you can see: only at times
            By "an order of magnitude" they were superior only in the number of transport aircraft and aircraft carriers. It is understandable.


        2. 0
          23 May 2022 14: 23
          40 technologically advanced countries can overwhelm the Banderland with modern weapons in such quantities that Russia will not have time to destroy it.

          Then you have to destroy the entire country, make it a scorched field on which there will be nothing alive. As a warning to others who look askance at Russia.
          1. +3
            23 May 2022 16: 38
            Quote: private person
            40 technologically advanced countries can overwhelm the Banderland with modern weapons in such quantities that Russia will not have time to destroy it.

            Well, yes, you bought a car, but you didn’t buy a ride?
            How to supply high-tech weapons to a country where there are no operators
            1. +1
              23 May 2022 17: 16
              How to supply high-tech weapons to a country where there are no operators

              And who told you that? You are sure that the Americans did not take care of this, because these rumors did not just appear. As we Russians say, there is no smoke without fire. Yes, and as an option, the same "mercenaries" and the military personnel of "friends" ze.
              1. 0
                24 May 2022 08: 01
                Quote: private person
                And who told you that? Are you sure that the Americans did not take care of this,

                I am sure. The purpose of the operation is to fight with the hands of Ukrainians and make money in the war, and not get into it up to its ears.
        3. -1
          23 May 2022 14: 46
          Quote: Trapp1st
          We need to prepare to destroy them in western Ukraine.
          40 technologically advanced countries can overwhelm the Banderland with modern weapons in such quantities that Russia will not have time to destroy it.

          Do you know this for sure or is it just your guess?
      2. 0
        23 May 2022 13: 50
        Quote: credo
        This topic was already discussed last week, and it seems to be clear that since there is talk about this, it means that these products are already there or will soon be, since it is not so far to bring patriots from Poland and Romania.
        We need to prepare to destroy them in western Ukraine.


        There are some thoughts. It is necessary to take into account the experience of Iran, it must be applied in the destruction of the Patriot air defense system. wink
        We remind you that back in 2019, there were reports of the Yemeni Houthis using “Soviet X-55s” against oil refineries in Saudi Arabia, which could not bring down the American Patriot air defense systems. But the Kh-55s were not exported - these are probably the Iranian Soumar, a ground-based version of the mentioned Soviet missile. The West still suspects that the Iranians made some of their developments on the basis of the X-55, which were bought from Ukraine. It should be noted that in 1999 Ukraine transferred to Russia 575 Kh-55 and Kh-55SM missiles as payment for the supply of natural gas. After the start of the Russian special operation on Ukrainian territory, the RF Armed Forces began to strike at the Armed Forces of Ukraine with them.

        https://topcor.ru/25725-debkafile-v-livane-pojavilis-klony-krylatyh-raket-h-55-sposobnyh-nesti-jadernoe-oruzhie.html
      3. 0
        23 May 2022 14: 29
        It must be warned that we will destroy on the territory of Poland using unconventional weapons.
    2. +15
      23 May 2022 13: 45
      Such a "transfer" should automatically jeopardize US territory.


      Why carry such populist nonsense?!

      Well, you realize that because of the supply of weapons to Ukraine, Russia will not start a nuclear world war, so why write this?

      Russia needs to actively conduct offensive operations so that no one has any doubts about the outcome of the conflict, then they will not supply weapons either, since they will not help win the war, but will go to Russia as trophies.
      1. -7
        23 May 2022 13: 47
        Well, you realize that because of the supply of weapons to Ukraine, Russia will not start a nuclear world war, so why write this?

        But according to Westerners, TNW can be completely used.
      2. +1
        23 May 2022 13: 52
        No one has any doubts, but they will still supply weapons ....
        "Speed" does not play any role, they generally began to supply weapons BEFORE the offensive began ....
    3. 0
      23 May 2022 13: 57
      In addition, the American complex can also be used as an operational-tactical one, inflicting pinpoint strikes on important targets. Kyiv has reportedly been trying to get this complex into service for a long time.
      Well I do not know. If they delivered M777 howitzers without a kit for firing precision-guided munitions, then it seems to me that the supply of HIMARS, especially with a tactical missile with a range of more than 200 km, is still out of the question. So far, only words and assumptions.
      Although, of course, everything can change closer to the complete defeat of the Ukronazis.
      Only now the crews there may no longer be Ukrainian, because the weapon requires special training.
      In addition, the Americans should not forget that this is a potential trophy.
  2. -1
    23 May 2022 13: 33
    And why is HIMARS better than Ukrainian guided MLRS?
    1. +6
      23 May 2022 13: 50
      And why is HIMARS better than Ukrainian guided MLRS?

      Actually HIMARS is a platform.
      You can shoot unguided rockets from it, then it's just not the best MLRS. And you can quickly use tactical missiles as far as 300 km, and this is completely different.
      1. 0
        23 May 2022 14: 01
        I understand your clarification, but the article indicates MLRS ....
        1. 0
          23 May 2022 17: 08
          Well, as a MLRS, I wrote nothing particularly serious.
        2. 0
          23 May 2022 19: 17
          By itself, HIMARS is a MLRS, but it can be converted to ATACMS - an operational-tactical missile. According to the characteristics, something in between "Point" and "Iskander".
    2. -3
      23 May 2022 13: 52
      The Ukrainians managed to produce only a few pieces of "modernized Tornadoes".
      HIMARS has done a lot.
    3. -5
      23 May 2022 13: 53
      Quote: Negruz
      And why is HIMARS better than Ukrainian guided MLRS?

      Quote: bk316
      And why is HIMARS better than Ukrainian guided MLRS?

      Actually HIMARS is a platform.
      You can shoot unguided rockets from it, then it's just not the best MLRS. And you can quickly use tactical missiles as far as 300 km, and this is completely different.

      More precisely, even when firing MLRS
      1. -1
        23 May 2022 14: 05
        More precisely, even when firing MLRS
        If we are talking about new ammunition for tornadoes, then they are quite accurate ....
        1. -5
          23 May 2022 14: 14
          Attention!
          I'm appealing to 2012 data hi
          1. -1
            23 May 2022 14: 17
            Got it, thank you! hi
        2. +1
          23 May 2022 14: 28
          Quote: Negruz
          More precisely, even when firing MLRS
          If we are talking about new ammunition for tornadoes, then they are quite accurate ....
          If we are talking about the Alder MLRS, then it’s not easy to put a high-precision missile into the Smerch MLRS, Alder was noted in tests with a declared range of 130 km (?), And at the parade, piece goods, MLRS (+ tactical) Himars are still put on the production line.
  3. sen
    0
    23 May 2022 13: 34
    Also, a number of military experts do not rule out that the United States can supply Ukraine with Patriot air defense systems in order to close the sky for Russian aviation.
    A number of publications have appeared in the American press, which talk about the possible delivery to Ukraine of the American M142 HIMARS MLRS, which are significantly superior to the Soviet Grad and Smerch MLRS, which are being built in service with the Ukrainian army, as well as their Ukrainian counterparts.

    It takes too long to prepare calculations, unless NATO members work for them, and this is a 100% attack on Russia.
    1. +5
      23 May 2022 13: 38
      there is nothing new here, citizens of NATO countries dismissed from the armed forces shortly before, even retroactively, will work. Whether our leaders will go for a hypothetical strike on the same airfield in Poland in Rzeszow is a question
    2. 0
      23 May 2022 14: 10
      Preparing calculations takes too long


      3 people per car

      2 weeks and a more or less trained crew is ready, especially since an instructor from a NATO country (most likely a Pole) will always be with them. and right next to Odessa

      A much more serious problem for them is to establish logistics and service for Himars
      Let's say the shells will be delivered on school autoboats, the Pole will be put in command, but who will repair the engines and the hodovka ???

      The M142 combat vehicle is made on a modified chassis of a 5-ton Stewart & Stevenson truck with a 6x6 wheel arrangement. Engine - diesel Caterpillar 3116 ATAAC with gas turbine supercharging, 6.6 l, 290 hp. at 2600 rpm. Number of cylinders - 6. Fuel capacity - 56 gallons, cruising range - 480 km. Transmission - Allison automatic, seven-speed. Suspension - parabolic with leaf springs. Ground clearance - 564mm. Crossable water barriers up to 0.9m deep. The calculation of the combat vehicle is 3 people (driver, gunner-operator and commander of the BM), but according to the developers of the system, in special conditions, one crew number can fire.
  4. +2
    23 May 2022 13: 36
    And with what fright does 70 km of American defeat exceed 120 km of "Smerch" ?!
    1. +2
      23 May 2022 13: 52
      moreover, it surpasses here, the installations themselves are simply running out, possibly with ammunition problems, the Ukrainians also begged from the Czechs for RSZO from storage
    2. sen
      +3
      23 May 2022 14: 01
      And with what fright does 70 km of American defeat exceed 120 km of "Smerch" ?!

      Maximum range 300 km for MGM-140 ATACMS and 500 km for PrSM
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIMARS
      1. -1
        23 May 2022 14: 20
        Quote: sen
        500 km for PrSM

        Such Americans will not give them for fear of being used by Ukrainians on the territory of Russia, which can lead to a very sharp aggravation between the Russian Federation and the States.
        1. 0
          23 May 2022 15: 04
          Attacks are already regular. And aggravations between rival countries are already in abundance
          1. +1
            23 May 2022 15: 09
            It's one thing when you hit a border village, it's another thing when you hit it in the suburbs, say. The consequences will be very bad, both for Ukraine and for the countries that allowed these weapons to be delivered through their territory. And this will take the escalation of the conflict to another level.
            1. -3
              23 May 2022 15: 12
              Quote: Krasnodar
              The consequences will be very bad, both for Ukraine and for the countries that allowed these weapons to be delivered through their territory.

              Like what?) hi
              1. 0
                23 May 2022 15: 14
                Hi! hi
                For example, an attack on the airfield where these weapons are unloaded. And it is located in Poland. Well, let's go...
                1. -7
                  23 May 2022 15: 57
                  These are fantasies. Firstly, the airfield is reliably covered by air defense and NATO aircraft. Secondly, the answer will be such that there will be little left of the Russian Air Force and Russian airfields in the western part.
                  1. -1
                    23 May 2022 16: 01
                    And this will lead to a nuclear war, which, in fact, I am writing about
                    1. -5
                      23 May 2022 17: 01
                      This will lead to nothing. Everyone wants to live. Especially presidents, senior officials and generals.
                      1. -3
                        23 May 2022 17: 21
                        Well, you are a smart person and you perfectly understand that it is they who will live and will Yes
                      2. -6
                        23 May 2022 19: 53
                        It was clear and accessible to them that the answer would be precisely according to their bunkers. And the locations of their families. So whoever tries to hint at such an order will definitely get a snuffbox. they are supposed to and they definitely have no chances. Dtsrakov does not have to execute such an order in general.
                      3. -2
                        23 May 2022 21: 15
                        request
                        I'm less optimistic here.
                      4. -5
                        23 May 2022 21: 28
                        The use of nuclear weapons is a slightly more complicated process than screaming at the VO. Preparations for such madness will become known long before. And the whole world, including China, will explain to the madmen both in words and in deeds that you should not do this. As well as the Russian population, however. Those who wish cooking in a nuclear boiler is not so much in the Russian Federation either. Especially for the sake of show-off). Do not confuse the real world and real people with online pushers.
                      5. -1
                        24 May 2022 09: 18
                        I'm not confused unfortunately
                        There are degrees of escalation
                        On alert, and in parallel, everything is brought on both sides
                        Moreover, if you remember, at first the West did not want to supply even artillery to Ukraine
                        Such a step as a strike on the Polish airfield will be taken in parallel with the introduction of the relevant troops into a state of combat readiness.
                        Well, then, the turn to make a decision will be for Western counterparts
                  2. 0
                    24 May 2022 15: 39
                    Liam. This will mean the beginning of the hot phase of the third world war with the use of nuclear weapons. And there is no need to talk about the generals and the president. Neither Putin nor the generals have property and money in Europe and the United States. The rest of Putin several years ago said that it was time to transfer savings to Russia. Whoever didn’t transfer, that’s the problem. Are you ready to strike at military facilities on the territory of Russia, realizing that you will have to receive a thermonuclear response, and not in Kyiv, but across the ocean and on the overgrown island? By the way, you tell me I didn’t say anything about the manure in Marika, so what is it? Zrada in Ukraine or again such a peremoga in Ukrainian? :))) Liam, your dill propaganda has become so dull! :)))
  5. -1
    23 May 2022 13: 37
    It may be that they will transfer it, but who will manage them, especially in terms of the Patriots? After all, if my memory serves me right, all Patriots outside the United States have American calculations. what
  6. -5
    23 May 2022 13: 37
    The Americans are playing! I believe our General Staff already has a plan for this!
  7. +1
    23 May 2022 13: 39
    which talk about the possible delivery to Ukraine of American MLRS M142 HIMARS
    Maybe, although it's hard to believe. According to the Patriot air defense system, it’s generally nonsense, who will serve it, if only with their own specialists, then this is a war. In principle, the same applies to the M142 HIMARS MLRS, because you can’t resist and Russian cities will be hit. Here it already depends on our leadership, whether there will be enough political strength and will to respond accordingly.
    1. 0
      23 May 2022 14: 44
      Quote: YOUR
      Here it already depends on our leadership, whether there will be enough political strength and will to respond accordingly.

      We must not wait, but work proactively
  8. +6
    23 May 2022 13: 42
    It seems that with military supplies, maneuvers near the borders, NATO is trying to provoke Russia to take more radical steps to "solve the Ukrainian problem."
    The "wild field" runs the risk of becoming a "wild field" again.
  9. +2
    23 May 2022 13: 42
    This is a blow to Poland and possibly the USA and the end of everything
  10. 0
    23 May 2022 13: 47
    ...bluff
  11. +1
    23 May 2022 13: 53
    In response, to publish information about Russia's readiness to share technological solutions with the regimes of Iran, North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba so dear to the West.
    1. 0
      23 May 2022 14: 02
      Iskander with a cruise missile will be very useful to Iran ....
      1. +2
        23 May 2022 14: 24
        Iran has a missile arsenal that will overload any missile defense anyway. The problem is that his air defense will also break through and very quickly.
        1. 0
          23 May 2022 14: 50
          You can also attach a nuclear warhead to the R-500 ....
          1. -3
            23 May 2022 15: 04
            One can laughing
            The problem is that it will work in Iran in the same way, and in a hydrogen version, and the entire Persian civilization will disappear and very quickly. The Persians won't do that.
            1. +3
              23 May 2022 15: 08
              For some reason, they "didn't work" in North Korea request
  12. +1
    23 May 2022 13: 54
    They can supply MLRS with pre-cut brains and naturally without ATACMS. But even then it will be too expensive hi
  13. +2
    23 May 2022 13: 57
    If Kyiv has a desire to receive such weapons, then why is this very Kyiv still standing in its place?
    And Lviv, by the way, too?
    Maybe in Moscow to start "talking" on this topic?
    1. -1
      23 May 2022 14: 49
      Apparently all this is unprofitable for the oligarchic government
  14. +3
    23 May 2022 14: 05
    In the United States, they started talking about the possible transfer of MLRS HIMARS and Patriot air defense systems to Ukraine
    So what? How can this change our plans?
    1. 0
      23 May 2022 14: 25
      Will prolong the agony of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    2. -1
      23 May 2022 14: 35
      We will stop using aviation at all .. The percentage of successful interceptions of our missiles will increase .. But this will not affect plans in any way, of course ..
      1. +1
        23 May 2022 15: 07
        Quote: Dikson
        We will stop using aviation at all .. The percentage of successful interceptions of our missiles will increase .. But this will not affect plans in any way, of course ..

        So far, there is nothing to argue about ... and so, we will see.
      2. 0
        23 May 2022 19: 26
        There will be a serious threat to aviation, but it is doubtful for the Kyrgyz Republic. Medium and long range complexes do not work very well for low-flying targets, without additional attached funds.
      3. +1
        23 May 2022 19: 29
        With dozens of s-300 divisions and beeches, somehow aviation was used in February-March 2022, and the KR too ....
        And the use of patriots by Saudi Arabia against Iranian junk was not very impressive ....
    3. 0
      23 May 2022 14: 53
      Quote: rocket757
      So what? How can this change our plans?

      I would like more effective actions from our Defense Ministry, and not pull the cat by the tail, giving the enemy the opportunity to calmly and prudently plan their strategy and be active in the Ukrainian direction.
      1. +1
        23 May 2022 15: 09
        Quote: Elephant
        I would like more effective actions from our MO

        A controversial issue, of course ... but yes, I want everything to end with an unconditional victory and quickly. But alas, we can only see.
    4. +1
      24 May 2022 12: 07
      In the short term no, in the long term yes. There is a concept of "Overton window". At the initial stage of the operation, the West was in shock and took chaotic actions. The prolongation of the operation led from timid discussions to the actual deliveries of combat aircraft and helicopters, armored vehicles, and increasingly heavy weapons in ever greater volumes. By the end of the third month of operation, deliveries are flowing and there is already a Lend Diz. In addition, the West is already boldly declaring the supply of anti-ship missiles Harpoon, MLRS, Patriot, and even sending military and police personnel to the rear regions (the Poles under the draft new law and the United States to allegedly protect their missions). Britain is really considering the practical issue of bringing a group of ships into the Black Sea to provide power support for the operation of the port of Odessa. At the same time, it is clearly envisaged, if necessary, the destruction of ships and infrastructure of the Black Sea Fleet. Here is the path taken by the West in three months from shock to possible direct confrontation. What tomorrow? Therefore, everything is not so simple here.
  15. Two
    0
    23 May 2022 14: 19
    hi Gathered on the moon ... Such Maddenkaya ... Outskirts, low-altitude ...
  16. +1
    23 May 2022 14: 22
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The ratio of the capacities of the military-industrial complex cannot be called good ...
    In World War II:
    Allies: USSR + USA + England + British Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, etc.)
    Axis:
    Germany + Italy + Japan + German-occupied Europe.
    The Allied military-industrial complex was more than 10 times superior to the Axis military-industrial complex.
    And the GDP is many times more.

    The US GDP was about 40%, the USSR, Germany, Britain, Japan, etc. about 12-15%. France and Czechoslovakia worked for Germany.
    The advantage of the allies in terms of GDP is at least 1.5-2 times.
  17. +1
    23 May 2022 14: 28
    Somehow I don’t quite understand the purpose of discussing this issue here .. If they want to, they will put it up .. If they haven’t already put it up, then in Poland it means that the crews are already training with might and main .. All our conversations here or even in our General Staff will not change anything in this matter .. That , express regret, or concern? Are there any "attacks on decision-making centers"? Nothing to talk about.
  18. +3
    23 May 2022 14: 31
    Quote: Krasnodar
    which can lead to a very sharp aggravation between the Russian Federation and the States.

    And now the relationship is not aggravated? laughing
  19. +2
    23 May 2022 14: 46
    In general, from the point of view of management science, we have witnessed a curious situation:
    a certain country for 8 years, with the help of the most powerful military bloc in the world, was preparing for a war with another country and, having a huge legacy from the collapsed superpower in the form of weapons and military equipment, ammunition and ammunition, personnel potential and management structure, modernizing and supporting the combat readiness of this backlog , managed, in the presence of operational deliveries, also of all of the above from this, the most powerful military bloc in the world, to lose almost everything in less than three months of hostilities ....
    But the second country opposing it has not even "sweated" yet ....
    1. 0
      23 May 2022 15: 58
      "didn't wake up"? Techniques of one lost how many.
      1. +1
        23 May 2022 16: 06
        On the scale of Russia - "did not sweat" ....
        By the way, do you already have expert estimates on material losses?
        1. +1
          23 May 2022 16: 10
          Of course not. This (summation) to official data is criminal.
          But I don't agree with you anyway.
          1. +1
            23 May 2022 16: 14
            No, it is NOT criminal; Yes, you may not agree with me....
            But the facts are clear: since the intensity of hostilities on the part of Russia does not decrease, it means that there are no critical losses .....
            And this is even a speech only on the scale of the group, and not the whole country .....
            But this is not about "hats", if anything ....
            1. -2
              23 May 2022 16: 29
              "didn't sweat" and "critical losses" are slightly different points.
              Only "hats / caps" do not sweat. I prefer to be realistic and adequate.
              But the intensity cannot be reduced, because.
              I prefer to be realistic and adequate.

              Everything has its price and measure.
              1. 0
                23 May 2022 16: 36
                If your unit can no longer maintain the same intensity of fire, then you either ran out of equipment, or ammunition, or fuel, or people, or communications ....
                Roughly speaking....
                Everything has its price and measure, but on the scale of "big data" it's just statistics...
                If 20% of the male population is in the army, the economy rises, if 5% - it is in crisis ....
                And so on and so forth - in all directions ....
                The numbers themselves do not say anything, because in some cases societies, states and armies are ready to bear any losses, in others even limited losses lead to political crises....
                But I raised the question through abstraction, without even indicating the names of the countries on purpose ....
                You will not blame the equations for the lack of emotionality, will you?
                1. +1
                  23 May 2022 16: 55
                  Here are the last paragraphs this is sophistry. This is already a long empty (philosophical) chatter. I will refrain.
                  In my understanding, there are already over 2.000 units. technology clicked. I am silent about the human resource. For me, it's a loss. Issuance to replace the lost is money and time. Therefore, for me personally, I didn’t “sweat” - these are the “caps”. And yes - the numbers say a lot, without statistics we are nowhere.
                  1. 0
                    23 May 2022 17: 06
                    This is not sophistry, this is planning ....
                    "Not sweating" is when you still have the resources to carry out the assigned tasks without the implementation of special measures (the "peacetime" army, the "peacetime" economy, etc.) ....
                    I see: you are talking about human lives, soldiers' fates, the pain of loss ....
                    1. 0
                      23 May 2022 17: 22
                      Not at all. The combat readiness of the state is expressed not only "in bayonets and sabers." At the state level, it is customary to consider reserves in the form of equipment (especially military equipment) in the first place. Here they blew a truck with "Krasnopols" - also, this is a big loss.
                      It all comes from statistics - in statistics (as an indispensable condition for solving the problem), losses are initially laid down (both equipment and l / s, and BC consumption). With the reduction in the available means and weapons of destruction (solution of the problem) - you have to "sweat" - the allowable loss rates of all resources (l / s, means and weapons of destruction, ammunition, even stupidly financial ones) increase. This is within the framework of solving current problems in Ukraine.
                      Do not forget about the main task - the special operation should not affect the defense capability, the solution of other possible tactical and strategic tasks. “Moscow” is already a strong weakening of the KChF. This is already a loss of resources and a decrease in the combat readiness of the fleet. So let's "sweat".
                      1. 0
                        23 May 2022 17: 25
                        "Aircraft carrier killer" - Moscow, drowned when the nearest aircraft carrier was in the waters of another sea ....
                        Therefore, its combat value is a thing of the past....
                        Yes, I feel sorry for people ...
                        But, I repeat, the country (not the army, not the navy - the state) did not even "sweat" ....
                        Finance ministers are much more "cruel" than defense ministers or chiefs of general staff...
                        hi
                      2. -3
                        23 May 2022 17: 39
                        "Moscow" was not only armed with anti-ship missiles. Moreover, weapons are not only missiles and guns, do not forget about the rest of the equipment.
                        All this "sweating / not sweating" is a relative concept. A person sweats on exertion, runs and sweats. The difference between running and walking is small, but you can't always run. Estimate the approximate losses in monetary terms of our equipment, for l / s all payments and compare with GDP, with the military budget. The point is that we will not be able to conduct NWO all year round, because the budget and means of production to replenish equipment are banal - Not enough.
                      3. +1
                        23 May 2022 17: 55
                        Moscow was created as a missile cruiser - right?
                        Yes, a tank can carry a trailer with potatoes, but its purpose is different ...
                        You can also tow faulty equipment with a tank, transport a "package" of OM, and so on ....
                        The point is that we will not be able to conduct NWO all year round, because the budget and means of production to replenish equipment are banal - Not enough.

                        An interesting question....
                        The current budget - yes, it will not be enough, the budget of the changed one - no, it will be enough ....
                        Is there a budget surplus? There are... Can I transfer the surplus to military expenses? Can...
                        Where is the "sweat" - the deficit?
                        Technology is more fun...
                        I started a dialogue with you just with questions about numbers ....
                        But, let's say, the numbers are not just large, but also irreplaceable within a year ...
                        Is it bad? From the point of view of the state - no .....
                        Military equipment is needed to solve problems ....
                        If the task is solved, but in the process of solving it, part of the equipment is destroyed, then everything is in order ....
        2. 0
          23 May 2022 19: 29
          On Lostarmore, an approximate calculation is carried out. Oryx also has it (although the data there is very doubtful).
  20. +1
    23 May 2022 14: 54
    M142 HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) is a highly mobile operational-tactical missile and artillery system. The system was developed on the basis of the FMTV wheel chassis weighing 5 tons. The basic ammunition for the M142 is MLRS missiles (M26, GMLRS, AT-2 and others) with a range of up to 70 km. In addition, the system can be equipped with a launcher for one ATACMS (Army TACtical Missile System) missile, and can also be used as a launcher for AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles.
    Serious system...
  21. +1
    23 May 2022 16: 53
    And in what way is it superior to Tornado? By range? so 70 km is less than that of Tornado .. Russian.
  22. CYM
    0
    23 May 2022 19: 02
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The ratio of the capacities of the military-industrial complex cannot be called good ...

    IMHO This ratio matters in the case of a conventional front-line war of attrition. World War III, if God forbid it happens, there will obviously not be such a war. After the start of the exchange of nuclear strikes, most of the military-industrial complex of the parties will be destroyed, and the fictitious GDP of the parties will become of little interest to anyone. winked
  23. -2
    24 May 2022 10: 50
    You say "Patriot"!
  24. 0
    24 May 2022 11: 43
    Well, there is no doubt that the Ukrainians will shoot from these MLRS across the territory of Russia. If they are smart enough to transfer Tochki-U to civilian facilities, then don’t go to the grandmother. Well, the fact that the Ukrainians will again increase the effectiveness of their counter-battery fight is also not good enough. More and more the reverse side of a protracted offensive operation is emerging. Here you have the supply of modern weapons and the discussion of plans for the power supply of the Odessa port by destroying the grouping of ships of the Russian Navy blocking it.