Military Review

Mistral as part of Russian naval diplomacy

121
Mistral as part of Russian naval diplomacy

The first two French Mistral helicopter carriers should be delivered to Russia in 2014 and 2015. Military analyst at the Institute of International Strategic Relations of France Philippe Migault expressed his assumptions to the Voice of Russia why the ships would be stationed in Vladivostok.

Mistrals are not just carriers of combat aircraft, but also the so-called force projection ships, that is, a tool for a universal solution of a local conflict that unites the Air Force, presented in the Russian version of the Kamov helicopters, namely the eight Alligators (K 52 K) and seven military transport vehicles K 29, that is, the total 16 combat-ready units.

On ships can also be based amphibious assault forces of up to 450 people and 13 modern tanks or 70 BRDM (n), that is, combat reconnaissance and patrol infantry vehicles. The 210-meter hull is capable of speeds up to 18 knots, i.e. more than 30 km / h.

The French pass on the technology of building ships to the Russians, including the CIUS (combat information management service) and avionics (avionics). It is the electronic filling of the Mistral, which so far has no analogues in the Russian fleetturns these warships into a single living organism, capable of a high degree of conjugation of the various branches of the troops present on the ship, not to mention the various air defense and anti-aircraft defense systems.

Also, this system allows you to integrate the ship in real time into the overall operational-tactical scheme of actions of the numerous fleet. In other words, these combat units are able to work equally as raiders, as well as part of a single group in the mode of maximum synchronization of actions with other ships. NATO has always been jealous of passing on its secrets. Therefore, many Western politicians, including Obama, have perceived this contract as a betrayal by the French arms.

The military analyst of the French Institute for International Strategic Relations and the former military columnist of the Le Figaro newspaper, Philippe Migault, analyzed the reasons that prompted the Russian command to choose Vladivostok as a place of deployment for ships supplied by France. After the transfer of the first two Mistrals to the Russian side in 2014 and 2015, the other two sides will be built under license by the Russian side in the Baltic shipyards, which will allow our engineers to get a full package of know-how on new technologies.

- Mr. Migo, the first two Mistrals, which received, according to Russian Navy Commander Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, the names Sevastopol and Vladivostok, should be assigned to the naval base of Fokino, which is 116 kilometers from Vladivostok. In your opinion, what prompted the Russians to rank the two newest vessels to the Pacific Fleet? What are the strategic tasks that Russia can entrust to the crew of these warships?

- I think that we are talking about strategic goals. After all, the advantage of this type of ships, whether it is air or helicopter carrier, is just the so-called naval diplomacy. Of course, these are military ships. But I think that as far as the Mistrals is concerned, they are still lightly armed, and their task is rather to emphasize the presence and sovereignty of Russia in this region.

For example, France, for example, sent Clemenceau in due time, so that, as we say, he would draw circles on the water in the region of Lebanon, where our national interests were threatened. So I think the main task of these vessels after their redeployment to Vladivostok is to emphasize that Russia possesses its Far East relative to some other countries in the region. I am sure that the Russian Mistral will not have the task of countering the Seventh US Navy, which is present in the maritime theater of action. For this, they simply do not have enough combat potential. But Japan is able to signal the position of Russia on the Kuril Islands or show its flag to China, which has just pulled down its first aircraft carrier from the stocks. The Russians emphasize that Russian lands will remain so. In this, in my opinion, the main task of these helicopter carriers.

- Now they talk a lot about shifting the center of gravity of the world economy to Asia. The political center, by the way, too. Do you think that sending Moscow their new ships to this region is an indicator, a litmus test of the change in the Russian geopolitical course with a turn in the direction of the Pacific facade of the country?

- This answer has two planes - heart and mind. From the point of view of reason, the last APEC summit in Vladivostok showed that Russia insists on shifting the center of gravity to the Asia-Pacific region. In fact, global commerce is concentrated there. The new Russian policy fits into this framework.

Well, if you give free rein to your heart, for my part I will say that, by its culture, Russia is a European country. I hope that this new alignment of Russian interests does not mean the final loss of Russia's interests in Europe due to the actions taken by the European Union with respect to Russia. After all, the European Union is not yet Europe. There are other opportunities for European construction and, in particular, the construction of Europe together with Russia. I hope that Russia will not turn completely toward the East, which will be very regrettable both for us and for it.

Perhaps Philippe Migault hints at the policy of General de Gaulle, who sought to expel the American bases from Europe and create European armed forces based on an alliance with a strong Russia. This line of behavior to this day meets the understanding of a certain part of the French High Command, which continues to strive for the revival of sovereign France. But now neither the current president of the country nor his closest associates seem to totally disagree with this.
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  1. andrei332809
    andrei332809 6 October 2012 15: 40
    +15
    all the same tormenting me vague doubts. because they can create our own, and I don’t believe in the phrase about not having analogues. okay, we’ll see what happens when the Mistrals stand on alert
    1. Trofimov174
      Trofimov174 6 October 2012 15: 56
      0
      Oga, that is, if the Mistral was Russian, would they gladly believe in the "lack of analogues"?
      1. Feanor
        Feanor 6 October 2012 16: 08
        +4
        For a long time now everything that is in service with us has no "analogues in the world" laughing we are already used to wink
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 6 October 2012 16: 49
          +8
          Hooray! Russia made an outstanding contribution to the defense industry of France. The workers of the French shipyards sighed freely, the good uncle of the GDP provided them with guaranteed work for a couple of years. Suppliers of spare parts and consumables are also jubilant, for many more years Russia will give them work exploiting these miracle ships.
          The workers of the IVECO plants are also very grateful to the GDP and are ready to roll up their hands to rivet us different Centaurs and Rysa for our money!
          But will they only supply us with weapons if war breaks out? But it seems that our government is not even considering such a situation, why fight if there are alternate aerodromes?
          1. alexng
            alexng 6 October 2012 17: 20
            +6
            I am very confused by the electronic filling of these Mistrals and, if it is purely French, it means "to send the goat into the garden." Or will the filling be hastily transferred to the domestic one? But this also takes time and not a little. So: "to beat or not to beat" these buyers. That's the question.
            1. Gregazov
              Gregazov 6 October 2012 17: 44
              +10
              Mistral, to put it mildly, not quite formidable ships. Even if their electronic filling fails at hour X, it will be a small loss. I would like to hope that the transfer of Mistral and technology to us will revive the radio-electronic industry, which has stopped in the development of components at the level of the 80s
              1. S_mirnov
                S_mirnov 6 October 2012 23: 41
                +7
                Well, you bought a Samsung TV for yourself, and that our electronic industry has come to life?
            2. wax
              wax 6 October 2012 18: 26
              +8
              It's not just about electronic stuffing - there is hardly anything unknown to us there. Here is a programmable control, perhaps interesting. In addition, we will build two ships ourselves - from scratch, including all the filling we will assemble. And we need to absorb technologies that we don’t have. Now, look, we were not allowed to take the technologies of the Opel automobile concern, and shipbuilding is more sensitive for the States. But, after all, it was possible. Then, I think, the Mistrals will be dispersed - one at a time: Baltic, Black, North, East. for operations not very military-strategic.
              According to the names - Vladivostok - there is, Sevastopol - is, there will probably be Arkhangelsk (or Murmansk) and Kaliningrad. Fine.
          2. Rustam
            Rustam 6 October 2012 18: 24
            0
            well done, even put a plus, and now tell me who can give us an alternative to these projects

            iveco and mistral
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 6 October 2012 23: 30
              +6
              domestic defense industry, which also! it is only necessary to manage it effectively, and not to excuse itself by referring to a self-regulating market.
          3. patsantre
            patsantre 6 October 2012 18: 47
            +3
            To begin with, it is not GDP that decides what to procure specifically and from whom. It can influence the decision, but this is not its task. We continue by the fact that in some places we may not have our own analogues and we have to purchase foreign products, because there is no choice .And you are here butcherte because of a couple of contracts - yes this is a drop in the bucket. And we end up with 2 ships being built with us.
            What stubborn people you are all the same. You are told that you are like your own sheep. I personally am not an ardent supporter of mistral and lynx, but I can understand and accept the decision to purchase them.
            1. alexng
              alexng 6 October 2012 22: 17
              0
              Quote: patsantre
              What stubborn people you are after all. They say to you that you are like your own sheep.

              Not stubborn, but "stubborn". In short, old men.
            2. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 6 October 2012 23: 38
              -1
              If we face the truth, so far we have been given two troughs that are not at all able to destroy American aircraft carrier groups and landing ships. As for the production of two ships here, these are fairy tales, the French have not yet signed up to this. as one smart person put it, "intentions change quickly and easily, but opportunities are long and difficult."
              As for "humility", this is exactly what is required from people like you, why think, it is enough just to accept. You ought to be Patsantre as a priest!
              1. patsantre
                patsantre 7 October 2012 13: 54
                -2
                Quote: S_mirnov
                who do not know how to destroy American aircraft groups and landing ships.


                And what, are they doing something now that can destroy AUGs (with the exception of the nuclear submarine Ash, which alone can not do anything anyway)?

                Quote: S_mirnov
                As for the production of two ships here, these are fairy tales, the French have not yet signed up to this. as one smart person put it, "intentions change quickly and easily, but opportunities are long and difficult."

                Origins, fairy tales - only because it’s not at your fingertips in the dispute? Maybe, of course, they will change their minds, but hardly.

                Quote: S_mirnov
                As for "humility", this is exactly what is required from people like you, why think, it is enough to simply accept.


                And what exactly can you do if you don’t put up? Think? I beg you, what am I going to think about?
                1. S_mirnov
                  S_mirnov 7 October 2012 15: 55
                  +3
                  "I beg thee, what is there to think about?" well, just a classic of the Russian electorate! By God Patzantre, you'd better not think, watch TV, they will clearly explain to you how to behave and what views to adhere to.
                  Now on the case to the question "What exactly can you do if you don't accept?" - I can think, form my worldview and opinion about the situation in our country, share this opinion with the readers of this magazine and other sites, give them the opportunity to look at the situation not from the angle officially imposed by the media. And the more People can adequately perceive reality, the more chances our Motherland has to live with dignity. The more chances our children will survive.
                  1. patsantre
                    patsantre 7 October 2012 18: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: S_mirnov
                    I can think, shape my worldview and opinion about the situation in our country, share this opinion with readers of this magazine, and other sites, give them the opportunity to look at the situation from an angle not officially imposed by the media.


                    It’s unlikely that anyone takes the media on this site really seriously, and because you’ll muddy the GDP on every corner (because you can’t do anything else), which is not at all to blame for the purchases of lynxes and mistrals (he didn’t ruin The military-industrial complex and some areas of science, he is not the Minister of Defense and he is not the head of the defense industry complex) you will not help the country.

                    Quote: S_mirnov
                    give them the opportunity to look at the situation not from an angle officially imposed by the media

                    You probably know more than others? Do you have any informed sources?
                    Quote: S_mirnov
                    And the more People will be able to adequately perceive reality - the more chances our Motherland will have to live with dignity

                    To begin with, you yourself should learn this.
            3. Grenader
              Grenader 7 October 2012 09: 09
              +2
              And why not decide for himself what to buy and from whom. Stalin and Hitler directly adopted military equipment themselves because they considered it very important. And now, in the order of things, pull out a round sum of four troughs for the sake of acquiring BIUS and avionics and not pay attention to excessive spending of the budget. If we are only interested in the filling, then why not limited to one copy? Yes, and ships with NATO stuffing are a dubious thing, at any moment, with the touch of a button, friends from NATO can turn these boats into a mountain of drifting metal. It was better not to mention about air defense systems in the article. Since then, has it lagged behind in this area in Russia? We have air defense, even shipborne are traditionally strong. I do not think that there is anything on the Mistral that can surprise our designers. In combat use, the Mistral is quite complicated, our BDK is better in many respects, for example, the ability to land directly on the shore. To design and build such ships is quite within the power of our military-industrial complex.
      2. Lapaev mihail
        Lapaev mihail 6 October 2012 21: 11
        +4
        that’s not the point, take a look at the map that France and that Russia can do better can more why the mystery is missing here ...
      3. Bashkaus
        Bashkaus 6 October 2012 21: 45
        0
        Trofimov174 Cleverly sweep, take off my hat and put a plus)))
    2. Bosk
      Bosk 6 October 2012 16: 35
      +3
      OOOOO there is a deep meaning ... take for example the T-34, a good tank, but it all started with the fact that in America they bought a Christie tank and there are many such examples. And Mistral most likely bought for the sake of their technologies and toppings!, Because to see and hold in your hands are two different differences, and the fact that you bought a couple of three is for excuse. I think this contract will be useful for Russia.
      1. Nickname
        Nickname 6 October 2012 20: 52
        +3
        Well, at least someone will say specifically what technologies ??
        No driving performance, no fighting, even the design is ugly.
        What kind of technology is in the ass?
        1. with
          with 6 October 2012 21: 06
          +5
          Quote: Nickname
          What kind of technology is in the ass?

          I do not know NikNik whether these new technologies will suit your fifth point ??))
          But read it.
          The dispute went around two NATO standard ship control systems - the SENIT-9 combat information and control system and the SIC-21 command and control command system (fleet).

          The French military fiercely resisted the transfer of SENIT-9 to Russia, which they considered highly sensitive in terms of military technology transfer. But in the end, Moscow and Paris managed to agree on the fact that "the French side transferred all the technologies," Isaikin said earlier.
          1. with
            with 6 October 2012 21: 11
            +7
            One clever man described the Mistral as follows:

            “It is not difficult to copy the assembly technology, but to build the infrastructure or update the existing one is already the case of the Russian Federation and the grandmother will not cost to measure. And the main technologies of Mistral - electrics, electronics and command posts - in the Russian Federation, with all the desire, you can’t build from your knees in the coming years.

            And about the fact that we also have a BDK, I will say it again: Mistral is not just a BDK, and we didn’t have anything like this in the Russian Federation and the USSR (well, maybe at the level of layouts).

            Mistral is:

            - fully automated ship, crew - 180 people.

            - 16 helicopters

            - Hyper-modern hospital with 750 sq.m., can be increased due to the helicopter hangar on a modular basis. Up to 100 l / s of medical staff, of which up to 12 surgeons. The level of the average Eurocity is 40 thousand inhabitants.

            - the first French all-electric ship.

            - wagon partially built according to the civil euronorms

            - command ship, with a huge KP amphitheater on 900 sq. m., a powerful server, 160 cable computer posts, 6 ADSL networks, satellite communications and a huge infoshina. All this makes it possible to use the Mistral as the main command ship, which is superior in this AV to the head and can command not only naval formations (AV, NPS, AUG) but also is the main command post for general military operations, with months.

            - Minimal logistic support, a huge step forward in terms of crew comfort, command, and landing, which allows you to fully realize the potential for 5000 hours of continuous service, i.e. 210 days a year, can be extended up to 350 days if necessary!

            That's the way it is!
            1. with
              with 6 October 2012 21: 14
              +8


              And yet ... all or many have heard of the existence of a package deal. This is when one contract entails the fulfillment of heaps of other contracts. So - the contract for the purchase of "Mistral" is the package that will allow Russia to legally receive a huge number of Western technologies, and even with the permission for our designers to study, borrow and process them !!!

              I'm talking about cooperation with the corporation THALES. These are not only SENIT-9 and SIC-21 ASBUs, not only radar and other ship equipment, but also third-generation thermal sights for our army (we only use second-generation tank sights), (( Our designers have long dreamed of disassembling it and looking at its integration into the “battle management system”), and nobody will refuse to look in detail at the integrated I-MAST mast from our designers.

              And getting the right to the technology of the ship propulsion "azipods", shipbuilding technologies? United Shipbuilding Corporation on the eve of the construction of a new shipyard on Kotlin Island is very interested in them. The same USK shipyards of USC were not for the sake of stupidly hanging out, after all, from Ukraine with such scandals she bought and took. They will pick up specialists from Ukraine and arrange specialists and special equipment for the construction of huge ships of tons of 200.000 on Kotlin Island.

              The most surprising thing is that the conclusion of the Mistral contract ensures the signing and execution of contracts with the Italian Iveco for the production of Italian Lynx armored vehicles and for the construction of a car factory in Naberezhnye Chelny, as well as with the German company Rheinmetall Chempro for the production of “lightweight metal-ceramic” in our company »Armor.

              So ... And many of them claim and write that this is wrecking. The words of such hacks can be treated only as nonsense.

              Igor Korotchenko, director of the Center for Analysis of the World Arms Trade (TsAMTO), said a couple of months ago: "gaining access to their advanced technologies will allow the Russian defense industry to introduce them in the country's factories."

              And finally, there is a phrase that very well characterizes the critics of the purchase of foreign technologies to replace the lack of domestic technologies: “we can do everything, just for some reason, we do nothing ...”

              Author: Alexey Kulakov
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 6 October 2012 21: 27
                +2
                THALES also partially works with avionics for Mig-29.

                For example
                At the ongoing Farnborough Airshow on July 11, 2012, JSC Russian Aircraft Corporation MIG and Thales Group signed a contract for the supply of 24 pieces of Thales TopSight helmet-mounted target designation and indication system for completing the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB naval fighters planned for delivery to the Navy Russia.
              2. Alexey Prikazchikov
                Alexey Prikazchikov 6 October 2012 22: 20
                +2
                Met plus, as always, you wanted to write yourself.
              3. Bosk
                Bosk 7 October 2012 20: 00
                0
                Not to Peter the Great and it seems they tried to introduce the same electronic control system on Kuznetsovo .... but judging by the purchase of the Mistral, this attempt was not entirely successful.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 6 October 2012 21: 18
              +2
              In this case, I completely agree
            3. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 6 October 2012 23: 56
              +2
              Quote: met
              hyper modern the hospital on 750 sq.m. can be increased due to the helicopter hangar on a modular basis. Up to 100 l / s of medical staff, of which up to 12 surgeons

              Is it hyper?


              Quote: met
              Mistral as the main command ship, which is superior in this AB by head

              True, the Mistral low-speed barge has 18 knots, and, unlike an aircraft carrier, it is not blocked from above by 48 interceptor fighters. Aircraft DRLO on the Mistral is also not and cannot be

              Quote: met
              - Minimal logistic support, a huge step forward in terms of crew comfort, command, and landing, which allows you to fully realize the potential for 5000 hours of continuous service, i.e. 210 days a year, can be extended up to 350 days if necessary!


              If you have already decided to purchase Western equipment, it would be much more useful to buy the ultra-modern frigate "Horizon" or "Alvaro de Basan" - effective ships that, unlike the Mistral, they can perform urgent tasks
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 01: 09
                +3
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                If you have already decided to purchase Western equipment, it would be much more useful to buy the ultra-modern frigate "Horizon" or "Alvaro de Basan"

                Osspadya ... YES God be with them, with Horizons - since you need an aircraft carrier ship, the Italians could have had their "Cavour"! We would get a decent combat ship - a small aircraft carrier (on which it is easy to land the same MiG-29KUB) but, at the same time, a landing ship that can accommodate more than 400 people up to 100 wheeled vehicles or 24 main battle tanks
          2. Nickname
            Nickname 6 October 2012 22: 33
            +1
            No, not convinced. What a babble.
            And I’m not ashamed to ask what is special about SENIT-9 and why it can’t be bought separately if you really need to. After all, it’s BIUS and to the ferry it’s like a slap.

            Here is what I found on the internet:

            LOOK: Why do the French refuse to give us this SENIT-9 system? Why is it so important?

            Ruslan Pukhov: The combat information-control system is a complex of technical means that has many functions: recommendations for controlling the ship’s weapons, collecting information about the situation, etc. Without it, the ship is "blind", so to speak. It's not just that SENIT-9 is French know-how. It is focused on interaction with ships, aircraft, and ground forces of NATO forces. And, of course, it includes related software. Thus, together with Mistral, Russia can receive a ton of information that is not even a French secret. This is something that the French, of course, are not ready to sell, since it is not only a matter of prestige, such as, for example, the SIC-21 command control system on the Mistral (its French did not want to concede, since it stands on the flagship French fleet aircraft carrier "Charles de Gaulle").

            LOOK: And what will happen if Russia nevertheless agrees to purchase Mistral without SENIT-9?

            RP: We’ll have to load the Russian defense system and put the Russian combat information-control system on Mistral.
            1. Nickname
              Nickname 6 October 2012 22: 54
              0
              Here you have it well written:
              And finally, there is a phrase that very well characterizes the critics of the purchase of foreign technologies to replace the lack of domestic technologies: “we can do everything, just for some reason, we do nothing ...”
              Theft and scam, that's all
              1. with
                with 6 October 2012 23: 35
                0
                Quote: Nickname
                Theft and scam, that's all

                And this phrase does not cause denial, but it must be confirmed, agree!

                But there may be another option, for example Mistral, as the reason for the construction of new destroyers, i.e. If the state gives the fleet ocean-going UDCs with an "intercontinental" cruising range, sailors with a clear conscience will ask to guard the ocean-going destroyer class. Other arguments to convince the country's leadership to build destroyers do not come to my mind right now. hi
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 6 October 2012 23: 42
                  +1
                  Shipyards are currently jammed to capacity
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 00: 56
                    +2
                    Yes? But USC explained GDP quite readily when it spoke of cooperation with Ukrainian shipbuilders that its own shipyards were loaded with power on 2 / 3
                    1. Armata
                      Armata 7 October 2012 12: 41
                      +1
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Yes? But USC explained GDP quite readily when it spoke of cooperation with Ukrainian shipbuilders that its own shipyards were loaded with power on 2 / 3
                      Andrew welcome. Our shipyards loaded percent on 50, or even less. KB dissolve. On Rubin from 20 design teams, only 5 remained. How to develop new ships? Well, let those who shout URA rejoice Pezhikam. And TTX Mistralek and Spaniards for us, more thinking, to compare.
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 16: 46
                        +2
                        Dear Steam Engine, hello!
                        Quote: Steam Train
                        Only 20 left on Rubin from 5 design teams

                        Damn .... did not know.
              2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 00: 55
                +1
                Quote: Nickname
                And finally, there is a phrase that very well characterizes the critics of the purchase of foreign technologies to replace the lack of domestic technologies: “we can do everything, just for some reason, we do nothing ...”

                That's it. Is our MO ordered someone to develop a modern BIUS, allocated research funds for this business? Nooo that you - it’s better to buy French and we will spend even more time and money on somehow forcing Zenit to work with our equipment.
                We can still really have a lot, but we haven’t delivered the magic wands, alas. In order for something to be done, you need to figure out what we want to get, then hold an honest tender, invest a little money and wait a little while controlling the development process, for which it would be nice to at least slightly understand what you are actually trying create .. Do you recognize our MO? I'm here - not at all
                1. with
                  with 7 October 2012 01: 02
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Nooo that you - it’s better to buy French and we will spend even more time and money on somehow forcing Zenith to work with our equipment.

                  I will remind you of one story, unless it is banned !!
                  By the end of the 60s, the computer industry of the USSR could be described with the phrase “splendor and poverty” - great ideas and innovative developments of academics began to sink into a sea of ​​misunderstanding.
                  Numerous institutes, large and not very, produced dozens of computers for a variety of tasks, often these systems were superior to their Western counterparts. Scientists were passionate about creating new architectures, finding fresh solutions. The teams of Lebedev, Brook and Glushkov competed and competed with each other - where was there to think about standardization and joining forces. Yes, yes, all computers were hardware incompatible.
                  The fragmentation of architectures complicated the creation of software - almost no attention was paid to system programming. In the future, groups of scientists at universities worked on the creation of the simplest operating systems for various computer series - about 1500 programmers created software for a huge fleet of diverse computing equipment. By that time, more than 50 people had fought on this task in the USA!

                  Computers were used to solve scientific and military problems, so the lack of standardized systems began to cause certain problems. And then the inspiration came, everyone realized that the computer industry needed a powerful breakthrough - it was necessary to create a line of computers compatible with each other and take it as an industrial standard. But then the country's leadership intervened ...
                  In December 1967, a fatal meeting was held at the Ministry of Radio Industry. The party elite decided to stop all development of its own computing systems and begin copying the architecture of the IBM System / 360 computer, released in 1964. Throughout the vast USSR there was no man who could convince the party of the incorrectness of this decision. It would seem that it would have been much more logical to take as the basis the most advanced of domestic systems and unite disparate groups of scientists ...
                  On the other hand, the party’s decision can be understood. With the inherent confidence in those years, the elite hoped that our scientists would be able to accurately copy Western computers, after which it would be possible to “borrow” ready-made and tested software. It is still unknown who made this decision. Some historians believe that lobbyists of Western corporations could be involved in this.
                  As a result, the Research Center for Electronic Computing Engineering (NITSEVT) was founded, which was entrusted with developing the line of computers "Unified System" (EU), and in essence - copying the architecture of the IBM System / 360 and adapting software. As conceived by the party, NICEVT was to unite groups of designers from Moscow institutes, namely ITMiVT and NIISCHETMASH. However, neither one nor the other expressed a desire to work together.
                  1. with
                    with 7 October 2012 01: 07
                    -1
                    Leading design specialists have come forward with sharp criticism of the new government strategy. The then director of ITMiVT, S. A. Lebedev, said that copying the IBM System / 360 would lead to several years behind the global industry - by that time the system was already considered obsolete in the West. The absurdity of the situation was understood by other scientists, but not everyone managed to survive. Lebedev had the will and perseverance to reject the idea of ​​the ITM&VT team participating in copying Western technology and to develop systems of the Elbrus series.

                    In 1968, the Research Institute of Electronic Mathematical Machines (NIEM), an enterprise with a 20-year history, was added to the NICEVT. A fully equipped group of computer developers "Ural", "Arrow", M-20 and M-220 began work on the EU. Branches of NICEVT were opened in Minsk and Astrakhan. The development of the periphery and individual models of the EU was carried out together with specialists from other social countries - the GDR, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Poland, Cuba. The importance of the personality in the development of computers has faded into the background - the colossal staff of NICEVT specialists has sat down to study the disassembled American code, the engineers had to delve into the insides of outdated systems from IBM ...

                    The first model of the EU series - “Ryad-1” - was presented in Minsk in 1971. The machine, codenamed EC-1020 and a capacity of 20 operations per second, was designed to solve scientific, technical, economic and managerial tasks. The computer includes components copied from Western counterparts - a processor, magnetic tape, RAM, input / output devices. Two years later, NICEVT demonstrated the older model - the EU-000. It was intended for use in computer centers. As part of the "Series-1050" was released more than five computer models, as well as many modifications based on them. Computers were supplied with the EU OS and translators from the languages ​​Algol, Kobol, Fortran, PL-1, assembler.

                    It’s impossible to say that our scientists blindly copied foreign technologies, different know-how was used in computers of the EU series, in addition, they were built on the basis of Soviet components.

                    The Ryad-2 line of computers (IBM System / 370 mainframe clones released in the early 70s) included the EU-1015, EU-1025, EU-1035, EU-1045, EU-1055, and EU-1060 systems. These computers were very late: the older model - EU-1060 - appeared only in 1977. It used virtual memory, had an expanded set of commands, an interrupt system, diagnostic capabilities, and it worked at a speed of 1,05 million operations per second.

                    At the same time, the team of Vsevolod Sergeyevich Burtsev from ITMiVT completed work on the Elbrus system - the latest computer, the principles of which were developed by academician Lebedev. The first version of the machine was put into operation in 1980. Unfortunately, Lebedev did not see her anymore - on July 3, 1974, he died due to illness.
                    1. with
                      with 7 October 2012 01: 11
                      +1
                      The Institute remained faithful to supercomputers - Elbrus-1 used ten superscalar processors and shared memory, and productivity reached 10 million operations per second, depending on the task. The superscalar, the implementation of secure programming with hardware data types, appeared in American systems later - ITMiVT once again outpaced the whole world. Five years later, the institute team introduced Elbrus-2 with a capacity of up to 100 million operations per second. The system was very popular among the military. An important feature of the first and second "Elbrus" was a special high-level language - "Autocode Elbrus El-76" developed by Vladimir Pentkovsky. It was written all the software, and the translation into the machine language produced a hardware unit.

                      By that time, it was already understood that the “brilliant” idea with the cloning of Western architectures had failed: the borrowed software worked with errors, it had to be finalized. The computers themselves were constantly freezing, running slower than the old systems created back in ITMiVT and NIEM. To speed up the adaptation of computers, the government began to orderly replace the good old BESM-6, Urals and Emki with newer, but less advanced models of the EU series.
                      Having obtained samples of IBM computers for copying, the government did not provide scientists with instructions on how to produce them. It was possible to copy the arrangement of elements on the board, to find out their characteristics. Another thing is to establish mass production. It was becoming more and more difficult to think of architecture - a working model always looks much more complicated than the concept described on paper.

                      The joint efforts of production and research enterprises, Elma, Elion, Angstrom, Component, Micron, and others did not produce results. The copied boards and microcircuits functionally repeated the American counterparts, but technically lagged behind them in all respects. It is worth making a small digression.
                      In the middle of the XNUMXth century, when the computer industry began to gain momentum, studies were commissioned by the US government to identify the possible impact of computers on industrial society. Having received the most positive feedback, the highest ranks gave a green light and allocated budgets. Since then, the computer industry in the United States began to develop rapidly.
                      Computers began to be used in business, many companies rushed into the industry - and leaders immediately emerged. Free competition and support from the government greatly influenced the development of the US computer industry. Great attention was paid to the development of the element base, and market realities forced leaders to quickly adapt and implement promising technologies. As a result, the industry gradually became completely independent.
                      In the USSR, everything was different - the actions of scientists were monitored by the party, there was no free competition, budgets were planned for many years in the framework of the planned economy. Moreover, the government initially did not see the point in the development of computer technology and computer science. The first computers were developed only to calculate the trajectories of transcontinental missiles and solve specialized scientific problems. The underfunding of the microelectronic industry has perplexed the entire industry, because specialists have never had problems with the creation of new architectures, which cannot be said about software and the element base.
                      1. with
                        with 7 October 2012 01: 13
                        -1
                        But the designers did not give up. By the mid-80s, NICEVT introduced the Ryad-3 computer series, which included the EU-1016, EU-1026, EU-1036, EU-1046, and EU-1066 systems. The older model appeared in 1987, it was running an advanced operating system OS 7 with support for virtual machines, the performance reached 5,5 million operations per second. As part of the EU line, they also released several models that did not have an American pedigree. It was they who demonstrated the capabilities of domestic scientists. One of such systems was the EU-2704, which included a processor that was able to dynamically manage resources during the execution of tasks and parallelize computations.

                        In turn, by the end of the 90s, ITM&VT introduced the Elbrus-B computer, a microelectronic copy of BESM-6 with support for the original command system. Thus, advanced architecture and general software got a second life.

                        But back to the EU. Developing the ideas of “Series-3” was supposed to be “Series-4” (both series copied the IBM System / 390 mainframe). The specialists of NICEVT assigned the EC-1130, EU-1170 and EU-1181 systems to the new series of computers. Unfortunately, at that time the USSR was already approaching its sunset.

                        And then perestroika struck. At one point, funding for the entire computer industry stopped. The collapse of the Soviet Union led to the fact that many factories and factories for the production of various components for computers were in the territory of now independent countries. The production of the Ryad-4 computer was discontinued.

                        The collapse of the USSR came at a time when the world was moving from massive mainframes to compact personal computers, when IBM launched the release of IBM PC, and other manufacturers began to produce its clones. Domestic developers tried to copy them too: the first PCs appeared in 1986, but they did not achieve much success.
                      2. with
                        with 7 October 2012 01: 17
                        0
                        With minimal funding, the remaining development teams continued to work. The weakened NICEVT released new versions of the PC until 1997, and ITM&VT continued to develop the Elbrus line of supercomputers. In the early 90s, the team led by Boris Babayan introduced a new architecture - Elbrus-3. Only one instance of this machine was built, by that time the technological base was very outdated. When the president of Sun Microsystems arrived in Russia in 1994 and brought in a miniature UltraSPARC microprocessor with several million transistors on board, it became clear to our developers that the battle was lost. Hefty cabinet "Elbrus-3" was launched under the press.

                        In parallel with Elbrus-3, the El-90 microprocessor was developed under the control of Vladimir Pentkovsky. The first samples were ready by 1990. 32-bit superscalar architecture with support for multiprocessing, secure computing mode, branch prediction ... But Pentkovsky’s ideas were not used. A little later, he again appeared on the computer arena, but already as a key developer of Intel Pentium III. There are even rumors that the Pentium processor line was named after him.

                        The team of Babayan lasted the longest - she continued to work on the Elbrus 2000 microarchitecture at the ICST. The rather long, confusing and contradictory history of the development of the new processor is worthy of a separate article, let’s say only that in 2004 Intel lured all Elbrus-2000 developers to itself.

                        article copied from gambling magazine No. 08 (131) 2008 http://www.igromania.ru
                      3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 01: 19
                        +3
                        And why ban her? The story is not stupid, and I would even say - very instructive ...
                      4. with
                        with 7 October 2012 01: 25
                        +2
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And why ban her? The story is not stupid, and I would even say - very instructive ...

                        Who knows!!))) request
                2. patsantre
                  patsantre 7 October 2012 18: 57
                  0
                  To develop a modern good CIUS, you need an appropriate base, with the presence of which we have strained ... and the acquisition of a foreign one will make it easier, faster and better.
            2. with
              with 6 October 2012 23: 04
              0
              Quote: Nickname
              And I’m not ashamed to ask what is special about SENIT-9 and why it can’t be bought separately if you really need to.

              Try it, maybe you can do it !!!))) hi
    3. Michael-rl
      Michael-rl 6 October 2012 16: 58
      +2
      Maybe they can, but here the question of time plays - in a very short time the fleet receives ships and technologies without loading factories, and during this time creating the infrastructure necessary in the future
    4. starshina78
      starshina78 6 October 2012 19: 02
      +1
      I think that it would be better instead of these Frenchmen to make light cruiser and BOD, there would be more benefit. We do not have escort ships of such vessels, but without escort, they are just targets.
      1. Rustam
        Rustam 6 October 2012 19: 09
        -1
        well done you read well, it has been said about this for several years that the USC cannot establish the rhythmic release of corvettes and frigates

        and they were going to type MISTRAL BUILD
      2. Botanologist
        Botanologist 6 October 2012 21: 18
        +2
        And where are you going to rivet the cruiser and the BOD? All shipyards were loaded with orders far beyond the 2020 year - corvettes, frigates, submarines of 955 and 855 projects, 677, 11357, more than 40 auxiliary vessels on the berths. Where are you going to build them - the cruiser? And, most importantly, which ones? And how much time do you plan to sculpt one cruiser when we have a 7 frigate built for years?
        Let’s have no relaxation, in essence.
    5. Hysnik-Tsuzoy
      Hysnik-Tsuzoy 7 October 2012 01: 05
      0
      Quote: andrei332809
      because they can create ours


      After the "outstanding" brick repair of an aircraft carrier for India, I somehow doubt that we will be able to build the Mistral.
  2. Sakhalininsk
    Sakhalininsk 6 October 2012 15: 42
    +1
    The right place for the Mistral, Far East is just a theater for these ships, and an excellent opportunity to deliver military units with air support to remote areas of the Far East.
  3. erased
    erased 6 October 2012 15: 44
    +4
    New technology is good. Now there would be more of their new ones - that’s okay.
  4. baltika-18
    baltika-18 6 October 2012 16: 19
    +3
    "Mistral" is a strange purchase. Thanks to the order, the shipyard in Saint-Nazaire was saved from bankruptcy. Australia refused the "Mistrals", due to weak weapons and high cost. If you were going to spend money on something like that abroad, then the Spanish class was more suitable Juan Carlos with a solid deck and a bow ramp. In addition to 12 helicopters, it is capable of taking 6 MiG-29K fighters, 900 paratroopers, 46 tanks, the speed, crew size are similar. At a lower price.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 October 2012 16: 52
      +4
      Juan Carlos uses American technology that would not sell
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 6 October 2012 19: 14
        +4
        Juan Carlos uses American technology that would not sell

        Korean DVKD Dokdo (DokDo, two times cheaper and more technologically advanced than a French barge - Dokdo ...

        With a total displacement of 19 thousand tons, Dokdo has an aircraft carrier architecture, a docking chamber with two LCAC LCVs and an under-deck hangar containing up to 10 UH-60 helicopters. Landing capacity - 720 people and up to 40 pieces of equipment (including six tanks). The ship carries quite significant defensive weapons (Self-defense systems: ASMD anti-aircraft missile system (21 launchers), Goalkeeper anti-aircraft artillery system (2 seven-barreled 30 mm installations).). The diesel engine provides a speed of up to 23 knots, cruising 18 knots. Cruising range of 10 thousand miles. The power of a diesel power plant is 30,6 MW.
        Navigation Radar: AN / SPS-95K

        1. Rustam
          Rustam 6 October 2012 19: 40
          +2
          krasava, first read everything to the end
          in Korean, not less than American stuff, naturally, it also turns into a barge as you put it
          Yes, only one thing is that the French transmit all their systems and order from the subcontractors devices for installation on MISTRAL

          and most importantly 3 years, we have at least 10 years
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 7 October 2012 01: 09
            0
            Rustam,
            and most importantly 3 years, we have at least 10 years

            initially, in two years they handed over to us two ships, from Amerovsk there was only defensive (air defense) and offensive (turntables), Google to help, including its American segment - regarding Dokdo ...
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 6 October 2012 19: 51
          +2
          And now I repeat, a little with a change.

          Dokdo uses American technology that would not be sold.
          1. TRex
            TRex 6 October 2012 20: 09
            +2
            The question is - what kind of special technologies are there that are so necessary for Russia for the construction of these very "Mistrals"? And what are these unique ships that are so urgently needed by the Russian Navy?
            Judging by the TTX, these same troughs were built by France to support its colonial policy, to demonstrate power in front of the Tuareg or some other nomads ... A company of medium tanks, a battalion of infantry and a squadron of helicopters - does Russia need this, with its gigantic proportions and tasks?
            For our Navy - a good aircraft carrier is needed ... about five - six. And the Mistrals are a waste of money. It would be better if their BDK performed better, without any "innovations".

            However, in the General Staff or traitors, or boobies settled. Compare France with Russia, x ... with a finger ... !!
            1. Botanologist
              Botanologist 6 October 2012 21: 25
              +3
              If you, dear, consider BIUS a worthless technology, you are wrong.
              If you think that the task of the landing ship is a naval battle, you are also wrong.
              If a company of medium tanks, a battalion of infantry and a squadron of attack helicopters, in your opinion, are garbage - then show me, pliz. any Russian project of a paratrooper capable of landing all this ashore.
              about the 5-6 aircraft carriers - you said that beautifully. Just forgot to add their purpose, theater and basing. Where? What for? For whom?
              1. TRex
                TRex 8 October 2012 12: 22
                0
                BIUS is certainly not garbage. Only imported CIUS on warships - exactly garbage. One click of some uncle’s fingers from across the ocean - and our ship is blind, deaf, dumb, etc. I don’t think that the West will so easily give up these technologies for autonomous work in the Russian Navy.
                As for the aircraft carriers - about the theater of operations, basing, mission, and more - I do not understand your irony. Not really needed? Or will we build only boats and patrol boats?
          2. PSih2097
            PSih2097 7 October 2012 01: 10
            0
            Dokdo uses American technology that would not be sold.

            comment above ...
            All this is sucked in USC ...
          3. Armata
            Armata 7 October 2012 12: 45
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            Dokdo uses American technology that would not sell
            I welcome the namesake. But did yours sell drones technology to the Urals? And even they are ready to give part of the foreign market for them.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 7 October 2012 18: 56
              0
              There were no American technologies
    2. Melchakov
      Melchakov 6 October 2012 17: 46
      0
      Quote: baltika-18
      due to poor armament

      On the Mistrals for us they will put our weapons, even Onyxes will put.
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 6 October 2012 18: 14
        +3
        Quote: Melchakov
        and the Mistral for us will put our weapons, even the Onyx will.

        I can hardly imagine how to push weapons into a finished ship, which requires a certain amount of space for the weapon itself, for control systems. All this should fit into the ship’s energy scheme, in the automation and control circuit. What was an additional project?
        1. Bashkaus
          Bashkaus 6 October 2012 22: 06
          0
          I won’t be doubled at the expense of the additional project, or rather I’ll be surprised if no changes were made to the existing design at the request of the workers.
          Adapting and changing the design is as usual.
          Take for example the high-speed train ICE3 and our Peregrine Falcon, We decided to stupidly buy ValeroRUS i.e. ICE3 for Russian roads. So what is the difference? Well, an erudite person will say on the go, the carts are different, because different track and painted differently. And few people know that poor Peregrine Falcon, or rather ICE3, roughly speaking, was increased in size, our fundamentally wider than the European brother. It’s just that they wanted it in Russian Railways, the guys said, we have other dimensions, so do it, but the train should be larger in size! As a result, it was significantly expanded, the Sapsanovsky economy class is equal to the European business class in the width of the seats)))))
          Well, about power settings for shift work on both direct and alternating current and other things you can not say ...
          So I'm sure that ours oh how much they ordered them to shove, so I personally admit that anything can be installed on the Nashi Mistrals ...

          и
          1. 77bor1973
            77bor1973 7 October 2012 03: 29
            0
            It was just that the loot passed by Russian Railways and hit Rubin, and when they said that the Sokol had to be accepted, all the railway generals cried out in one voice that the Sokol could not be operated on the Russian Railways network.
        2. Melchakov
          Melchakov 7 October 2012 15: 30
          0
          baltika-18,
          So the Mistral for us and the Mistral for the French Navy are of a slightly different design, we have made helicopter elevators higher and the hull stronger.
      2. andrei332809
        andrei332809 6 October 2012 18: 32
        0
        Quote: Melchakov
        even Onyx will put

        Sorry, who told you such garbage?
      3. PSih2097
        PSih2097 6 October 2012 19: 26
        0
        On the Mistrals for us they will put our weapons, even Onyxes will put.

        defensive - yes, it will be ours, about onyx - why can't we just put the "mace" in there?
      4. TRex
        TRex 6 October 2012 20: 14
        +1
        Melchakov! However, you are a Cossack mishandled! Hanged a red flag, hell knows for what - you call ... In the subject you do not understand a damn ...
        Taburetkin’s agitator?

        Which regiment served?
        1. andrei332809
          andrei332809 6 October 2012 21: 19
          +1
          Quote: TRex
          ! However, you Cossack mishandled

          why are you doing it like that? don't try to put an mosquito enema
      5. Windbreak
        Windbreak 6 October 2012 21: 38
        0
        these are the words "source in the defense industry." There, only AK-630 and "Flexible" will be
    3. PSih2097
      PSih2097 7 October 2012 01: 20
      +2
      the best option for our military-industrial complex would be the resurrection of the project UDC pr. 11780 "Ivan Tarava" with new electronics and new combat systems ...

      We look back, TTX "I.T." (in the 80s)
      Length: 196 m
      Width: 35 m
      Draft: 8 meters
      Displacement: 25 000 t
      KTU: 180 hp
      Speed: 30 nodes
      Cruising range: 8 miles at 000 knots
      Armament: 1x2 130mm AK-130, 2 batteries 6x8 PU SAM "Dagger", 2-4 ZRAK "Dagger"
      Aviation: landing option - 12 Ka-29, anti-submarine version - 25 Ka-27
      And now? KTU is more powerful and economical, you can even shove nuclear power plants, armaments too ... SO WHAT IS IT ???
  5. bask
    bask 6 October 2012 16: 20
    +5
    Bought Mistral. What image damage Russia was inflicted. How many engineers of the research institute were left without work Nobody counted this. Mistrals, these are the projects of the 80s. The new one, the NATO members, will not sell. It is sad that Russia is losing its high-tech developments. And it turns into oil, banana ,, republic.
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 6 October 2012 17: 09
      +2
      So, capitalism, everything is returning to normal, we are still living on the backlog of the USSR, and there, in the rightful place of tsarist Russia. Earlier in France, the battleship "Tsarevich" was ordered, according to this French project, their battleships of the "Borodino" type were built in front of Tsushima. How it all looks like. I would like to believe in a technological breakthrough, the Soviet Union borrowed a lot, further developing its own, but then there was socialism, without our billionaires and corrupt bureaucrats.
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 6 October 2012 20: 00
        +3
        Quote: Per se.
        The Soviet Union borrowed a lot, further developing its own, but then there was socialism, without our billionaires and corrupt officials.

        Without the general secretaries of the traitors, the USSR would probably be developing such a fleet.
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 6 October 2012 21: 46
          +2
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Without the general secretaries of the traitors, the USSR would probably be developing such a fleet.
          Well, albeit not like that, but the nuclear aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk would have been in service for a long time, and thanks to the Energia rocket, not only a powerful space station could be built in orbit, but also a modular spacecraft for deep space.
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 6 October 2012 22: 35
            0
            Quote: Per se.
            but also a modular spaceship for deep space.

            Well, I can not resist. The main thing that was a dream.
            For Kars, that trifles-star battleship.
            1. Per se.
              Per se. 6 October 2012 23: 20
              +1
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              Well, I can not resist. The main thing that was a dream.
              I appreciate your humor, unfortunately, I am not so optimistic about the expected successes of bourgeois Russia, and I'm not so ironic over the USSR. By the way, with Kars on the subject of battleships, of course not space ones, I share many positions.
            2. PSih2097
              PSih2097 7 October 2012 01: 27
              +4
              For Kars, that trifles-star battleship.

              You are not a patriot, you need a battleship from "Empires of Evil" demonstrate:

              and in Russian its performance characteristics:
              1. Evgen2509
                Evgen2509 7 October 2012 17: 28
                0
                This is not "Victory", this is "Emperor")))
                http://starforge.info/galactic-empire-ships/imperator-i-class-star-destroyer/
              2. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 8 October 2012 20: 00
                0
                Quote: PSih2097
                You are not a patriot, you need to demonstrate the battleship from the "Evil Empire":

                Well, my friend, it’s in vain, you had to click on the picture and you would see a star and the name of the country.
          2. bask
            bask 6 October 2012 22: 59
            +1
            Per se I agree .. Without a carrier rocket, we will not be able to see deep space. Yes, and near, at this rate of collapse and loss of technology we will not see soon. Technology in the west should be obtained by our brave intelligence. For much less money. Than one Mistral.
            1. PSih2097
              PSih2097 7 October 2012 01: 31
              0
              Without a rocket carrier Energy we cannot see deep space

              Have you ever wondered why it is Energy, and not something else? oil is a needle, but interplanetary flights are a cure for it, so many go bankrupt, and not even people or corps, but states ...
  6. anfreezer
    anfreezer 6 October 2012 16: 48
    +2
    "namely eight "Alligators" (K 52 K) and family military transport vehicles K 29, that is, only 16 (!?) combat-ready units. " what
    1. erased
      erased 6 October 2012 17: 20
      -1
      Yes, I forgot to remind myself, they obviously cannot be considered plainly. Or just didn’t agree!
  7. aksakal
    aksakal 6 October 2012 16: 51
    +2
    "Well, if you give free rein to the heart, for my part I will say that in its culture Russia is a European country" - Is it so?
    . "I hope that Russia will not completely turn its back on the East, which will be very unfortunate for us and for it". - I wonder what the forum users will choose:
    1. Recognize yourself as Eurasians, not Europeans or Asians, namely Eurasians, begin to form their own identity and their own, Eurasian scale of values, and then become one of the poles of power.
    2. To recognize the Russians as Europeans, but at the same time the Europeans themselves will not be recognized as such - they are not going to do this, at best - non-European, and therefore - second-class people.
    3. Recognize yourself as Asian. The pluses here are you are trending, you have time to drop onto the bandwagon of an economic train that is rapidly leaving for the East .... I can’t say whether Asians recognize Russians as Asians, I’m delaying.
    1. avdkrd
      avdkrd 6 October 2012 18: 14
      +10
      Why should we recognize ourselves as someone else, cling to a foreign culture?
      We must not recognize ourselves, but be aware. Contrary to Europeans and Asians, not to contrast (although not without it), but to realize RUSSIAN. We live in the center of the world, the territory of Russia was so called the first by the British ... Russian civilization for centuries absorbed the best from its neighbors, while maintaining its authenticity.
      Personally, it will not be cold, not hot, if we are recognized by, say, Europeans in the super-main European Parliament or Asians in the gangway of Asians around the world. I know that DIFFERENT FROM BOTH, I am RUSSIAN.
    2. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 6 October 2012 19: 54
      +3
      Aksakal we are on my own I am a European in dispersion, Russian by ethnicity Kazakhs I will call you brothers. Europeans never !!!!
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 6 October 2012 20: 54
        +1
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        I know that DIFFERENT FROM BOTH, I am RUSSIAN.

        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        Aksakal we are on my own I am a European in dispersion, Russian by ethnicity Kazakhs I will call you brothers. Europeans never
        - the question is closed. Thank. And the author, despite the relatively sober assessment of the ships themselves and the fact of their purchase, for these things - on the soap. Stop looking Europeans in the mouth, it's time to love and appreciate yourself.
        And the answers are super!
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 6 October 2012 21: 20
        0
        Are you aware that the European race is also called the Caucasian race? wink
    3. Bashkaus
      Bashkaus 6 October 2012 22: 13
      +1
      So I also somehow from childhood thought that there are Europeans, Asians, Arabs, Latinos and a separate line of Russia))) we are not just a country belonging to one of the types of civilization, we ourselves are a separate type of civilization)))
  8. kronos.pt
    kronos.pt 6 October 2012 16: 56
    +2
    When the technology is transferred, then let's say "Gop". In the meantime, we must keep our eyes open. There is a sea of ​​examples in the history of examples ... and, unfortunately, our examples.
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 6 October 2012 17: 39
      0
      Quote: kronos.pt
      When the technology is transferred, then let's say "Gop". In the meantime, we must keep our eyes open. There is a sea of ​​examples in the history of examples ... and, unfortunately, our examples.
      - no matter how the chain of mysterious suicides and murders of French and Russian electronic engineers began at the final stage of construction of the last two aircraft carriers - ((((((. Starts - it means it's time for the FSB to dissolve due to complete incompetence and create a new service. Such things are excusable to the Iranian special services , but not the heiress of the great KGB
  9. Samsebenaum
    Samsebenaum 6 October 2012 16: 59
    +3
    The first two helicopter carriers will be built at the shipyards in Saint-Nazaire, their cost will be about € 1,2 billion, or roughly 48 billion rubles.
    Plus two more a little cheaper ...
    Not sick for vulnerable and controversial militarily vessels.
    Technology on board will be outdated tomorrow, and our military science will stomp in one place with outstretched hands.
    Oh, woe - strategists ....
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 6 October 2012 17: 38
      +6
      We’ve been discussing it for 2 years, and the same thing
      well look
      what suggestions were
      1) USC-with the Koreans, well, it’s at least 10 years old and twice as much
      2) Juan Carlos 75% of American systems will never be sold (only an empty base) because they want to plant people for 20 years because of microchips
      3) Dutch - also half of the American equipment and it is smaller
      4) Mistral - fully French systems - and for 3 years

      Benefits

      The whole Mistral has been purchased and the contract is being implemented, and nothing can be done about it
      you need to think how to use these units wisely in our Navy, and they won’t find out what would happen if it was different
      and there are many problems
      a) the depressing construction of corvettes and frigates for our Navy, and the Frenchman needs a normal escort, more than one lonely boat, because he carries people normally
      b) construction and running-in marine ka-52k
      c) the construction of basing places for a new class of ships of our navy
      d) crew training for such a complex technique
      e) determination of landing craft for the ship (ours or imported)
      e) fitting all systems and splicing with our technical systems

      maybe something else, that’s what you need to think about now, but don’t talk, maybe il can’t honestly even vomit
      the very fact that we don’t like to appear a new class of ships, I don’t like a lot either, but we don’t have a time machine, and I’m most interested in what happens, and in connection with the situation in SYRIA we need such a class of ships (some used to scream that we don’t have tasks abroad and we don’t need Frenchmen)

      it’s already most interesting, of course, it would be possible to place it on the Black Sea with access to the middle sea there until our interests
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 October 2012 18: 40
        +3
        It is worth noting that Koreans also have American systems
      2. Samsebenaum
        Samsebenaum 6 October 2012 19: 29
        +2
        I do not believe that these vessels will strengthen the defense capability of our country. And their presence in the Far East is also a moot point.
        I also don’t think it’s right that the decision is first to conclude contracts for the acquisition and production, and then to come up with a scope.
        As for me, it was more rational to invest this money in promising domestic types of weapons - aviation - astronautics, missile defense, air defense, communications, control and targeting systems, high-precision weapons, hypersonic.
        To choose from.
        Strengthening any of these areas will positively affect the state of the Armed Forces.
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 6 October 2012 22: 20
          +1
          You are absolutely right, everything here was done through the ass ...
        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 7 October 2012 19: 42
          +1
          Money is already invested. Where else to invest? Let what is work out.
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 6 October 2012 18: 20
      0
      [and our military science will stomp in one place with outstretched hand
      ___ You surely noticed that only she has stood still for 20 years (mostly)


      Oh, woe - strategists .... - what do you suggest ??? wait for how much 5,10,15 how many years to wait for us to do this — here we get technologies, new machines, an order for helicopter plants and an understanding of new ships as a class in our navy
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 6 October 2012 20: 28
        +1
        Quote: Rustam
        wait for how much 5,10,15 how many years wait for us while we stand this-here we get the technology, new machines, order for helicopter plants and understanding of new ships as a class in our Navy

        Well, in tandem with the Mistrals, Russia is creakingly building the Ivan Gren large landing craft and escort ships, and this is already beginning to represent some kind of power.
        Than it’s stupid to keep money from the stabilization fund in American banks at half a percent per annum, it’s better to conclude contracts with the French, and learn something by yourself.
        And for the industry to work in the country, it is necessary that the interest rate on loans be no more than 3%, otherwise stagnation, as is observed in Russia.
        The development of the ties between science and industry at this time stage is the task of the government in the first place. The Navy's fleet now has a very modest appearance and there are a lot of ships needed, so a contract with the French is beneficial to both parties.
  10. ShturmKGB
    ShturmKGB 6 October 2012 17: 32
    +1
    Now it is possible and necessary to order ships from other countries, and load your shipyards, not enough because ships ...
  11. Alexander-Tomsk
    Alexander-Tomsk 6 October 2012 17: 34
    +1
    Quote: aksakal
    I wonder what forum users will choose


    Become your own center of power, and who the tenth business will consider you to be.
    Option 1 is closer to me, although the "Eurasians" sounds vague, some people are not clear where they come from, from the vast expanses of Eurasia what
    As for the second option, to the point, being perceived by poor neighbors from the east is not nice =) Yes, and somehow I do not consider myself a European living in cold and dense Siberia wink
    I can say for sure that they do not consider that there are many Asians from the Russian Federation who are familiar with (Buryats, Tuvans, Yakuts ...), they have a different mentality ...
  12. BARKAS
    BARKAS 6 October 2012 17: 41
    +1
    Such technologies need to be obtained in battle and not only bought if, for example, Iran manages to bring down a plane or sink a ship, then the details should be with us, before the United States did so and the USSR probably too. am
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 6 October 2012 19: 46
      +4
      NEED TO GET INTO BATTLE-blurted out this, then we’ll start a mess to get the sample we need !!! (I just fell from such words)

      dear human souls — in the USSR — special divisions of the GRU and the KGB — bought technology, technical documentation, samples of both military and civilian
      in the 30s, they completely bought the production lines of leading US firms
      therefore, the lag of the USSR at the beginning of 90 in technology was no more than 5-7 years from the west

      or bought from their allies as in the video
      1. snek
        snek 6 October 2012 23: 28
        +1
        Tin. I did not think that the f-5 was so superior to the instant-21 ...
  13. with
    with 6 October 2012 19: 13
    +2
    Historical Date: 06.10.1863/XNUMX/XNUMX


    Lesovsky Squadron's visit to America


    American expedition of the Russian fleet in 1863-1864 took place at the height of the war between the Northern and Southern States. Russia stood on the side of the northerners and their leader, President Lincoln, who fought for the destruction of slavery. Two squadrons - the Pacific and Atlantic oceans under the command of Rear Admirals Lesovsky and Popov left Kronstadt and Vladivostok ...

    Soon, American newspapers that arrived in Europe brought one after another two sensational news: the Russian Lesovsky squadron anchored in the New York raid, the other Russian ships anchored in the San Francisco raid. The Russian marines, sailors and fleet officers who landed on the shore were enthusiastically welcomed by the population and representatives of the authorities.

    The American newspapers of that time were full of headlines: - The new union is sealed. - Russia and the United States are fraternizing. - Enthusiastic popular demonstration. - The Russian cross weaves its folds with American stars and stripes. - Speech by Admiral Lesovsky. - A big parade on Fifth Street ...

    Formally, the alliance between Russia and America was not concluded then. However, sending squadrons to the ports of the belligerent state led to a de facto alliance. And, indeed, during their stay in America in two cases, Russian ships even put pressure on the enemy’s military vessels with a direct threat of military operations. The Atlantic squadron of Admiral Lesovsky, having the main base of New York, visited Baltimore, Anapolis, Hampton, the Caribbean Sea, the Gulf of Mexico, Cuba, Honduras, Havana, Jamaica, Bermuda. The squadron of Admiral Popov went to Honolulu, Sitka and Vancouver.

    In all cities of the Northern States, the appearance of Russian soldiers caused a storm of greetings. Russian and American flags were immediately flown, troop parades and gala banquets were held. Music thundered in the city squares, speeches were heard from the improvised tribunes. At a farewell dinner in honor of the Russian army and navy, the mayor of Boston said: "The most important thing that the Russian squadrons have brought us is moral assistance." Another speaker said: "Russia has shown itself to be a wise, constant and reliable friend towards us."

    With honor and glory, the soldiers who were in America supported the dignity of the Russian army. They contributed to the strengthening of the United States and appeared to the eyes of the inhabitants of the great overseas republic as worthy envoys of the mighty Russian people, impressing the Americans with their discipline, endurance, and impeccable behavior.

    Source: A. Krivitsky, "Russian Officer Abroad"
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 6 October 2012 19: 42
      +1
      I understood very cognitively, BUT THIS IS HOW TO APPLY TO THE PURCHASE TOPIC OF THE FOLLOWING OPERATION OF MISTRALS AT US !!!!
      1. with
        with 6 October 2012 20: 02
        +2
        Quote: Rustam
        I understood very cognitively, BUT THIS IS HOW TO APPLY TO THE PURCHASE TOPIC OF THE FOLLOWING OPERATION OF MISTRALS AT US !!!!

        Perhaps you are right! BUT....
        Such news should be on the site. (I’m not telling anyone in any case, I just think so)
        If not for this squadron, it would be possible and there would be no USA !?

        THIS IS OUR STORY WITH YOU !!!
        AND IT NEEDS TO KNOW.

        And they bought the Mistrals, the technologies use _WELLERS.
        The main thing is not to buy a finished or originally old product like Iveco.
        There should be a push, and it will be through the Mistral or through the Pistral, no matter.
        1. Bosk
          Bosk 6 October 2012 21: 15
          +2
          The comrade had in mind that one current, the presence of a Russian squadron near the coast of America (on which there was a small, but still an airborne landing), had a great resonance ...
          1. with
            with 6 October 2012 22: 23
            +1
            Quote: Bosk
            The comrade had in mind that one current, the presence of a Russian squadron near the coast of America (on which there was a small, but still an airborne landing), had a great resonance ...

            Khe ..., you caught my thought, but it is more extensive, tack say! hi
  14. wolk71
    wolk71 6 October 2012 19: 43
    +2
    Whether or not we have analogues of helicopter carriers is not so important, it is important that such vessels will be in the Russian Navy and this will not make it weaker.
  15. laurbalaur
    laurbalaur 6 October 2012 20: 43
    +1
    Well, finally, there will now be a BIUS in the Far East!
  16. Strashila
    Strashila 6 October 2012 20: 44
    0
    "The French are transferring to the Russians the technology of building ships, including BIUS (Combat Information Control Service) and avionics (avionics). It is the electronic stuffing of the Mistrals, which has no analogues in the Russian Navy, that turns these warships into a single living organism." .. complete nonsense, no one will transfer the latest technologies, this system works according to the NATO standard and how all this crap will be docked with the domestic control system, what kind of integration are we talking about, with what fleet ... ??? Let's be realists, the French will stuff it with my mother, don't worry. Let's not forget the experience of Iraq and Libya, which were first betrayed by arms suppliers from the West. Shipbuilding technologies ... it was easier and cheaper to negotiate with the Finns, they know how to build ice-class ships. "After the transfer of the first two Mistrals to the Russian side in 2014 and 2015, the other two sides will be built under license by the Russian side at the Baltic shipyards, which will allow our engineers to receive a full package of know-how on new technologies" ... from the initial Mistral already the day before yesterday day ... until the French surrender ... 2015 ... while ours equip them it will be a year like 2020 ... until ours master the "full package of know-how" ... nothing is planned for the new world over these decades ... and who will need them technically, we’re morally silent about them, even if they were not launched.
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 6 October 2012 21: 04
      -1
      Quote: Strashila
      complete nonsense, no one will transfer the latest technology, this system works according to the NATO standard and how all this crap will fit into the domestic management system, what kind of integration is involved, what fleet ... ??? Let’s be realistic, the French bookmarked in her cram mom do not cry.
      - It seems that with the French, as well as with the NATO countries, military operations are not planned. And God forbid, they will not begin.
      Here Niya, no one else will answer you on the purely technical side of the question, but one thing to note here is that according to the NATO standard it is difficult to fix, for example, the caliber of weapons. Information processing is a fundamentally different thing, and there are actually no standards here. If the question concerns some protocols, then for a long time already everything, and Russian including use global protocols. If the software is open architecture - and it is probably open, so all codes will be transmitted too - then docking with Russian control systems, in my opinion, is a question for programmers, is not the most difficult one.
      Our people are probably interested not so much in the details as in the concept itself, the idea, if I may say so. And then you can go your own way. As with the T-34, they looked at the Amer’s concept and made their own. We got a good tank, but it’s impossible to call it amer’s.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 6 October 2012 21: 24
      +2
      Tell us about real cases of bookmark detection in the supplied equipment?
    3. wolk71
      wolk71 7 October 2012 12: 07
      +1
      Let them shove it, our specialists are not suckers, before they are checked a hundred times on combat duty, they will double-check everything, and there will be some sort of fit to our standards.
  17. Bosk
    Bosk 6 October 2012 21: 07
    +1
    The highways will be used as control ships, even in the event of a conflict ... they will be sent to missiles and torpedoes.
  18. altman
    altman 6 October 2012 21: 18
    +1
    Good or bad Mistrals, whether we need them or not - history will decide or, God forbid, war .. I think they are suitable as a deterrent .. and if they fulfill such a role, they were not bought in vain!
  19. Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 6 October 2012 21: 30
    +2
    Quote: Bosk
    The highways will be used as control ships, even in the event of a conflict ... they will be sent to missiles and torpedoes.


    Heh! This is how to give a drink! Rather, missiles and torpedoes will be directed at them ... smile
  20. Artillerist
    Artillerist 6 October 2012 22: 48
    +3
    You argue, as if they had given the last piece of bread for these Mistrals. I see more advantages in this deal than negative. Russia receives:
    - excellent ships with a wide range of applications;
    - new technologies;
    - the possibility of working out new tactics of application. Their versatility plays into the hands. From command posts, rescue ships, floating hospitals, airborne troops, etc.

    And most importantly, it is unlikely that it will be possible to hide billions of folk remedies in the "black holes" of the domestic military-industrial complex. The French will not participate in shady schemes. This means that all funds will be used.
    1. Nickname
      Nickname 6 October 2012 23: 12
      +1
      Of course, better to go home. At least something than nothing.
      But the question is, is this the best investment?
      Quote: Artillerist
      - excellent ships with a wide range of applications

      Great, very loud smile Spector, but probably wide.
      Quote: Artillerist
      - new technologies
      Are they new? This is what the debate is about.
      Quote: Artillerist
      And most importantly, it is unlikely that it will be possible to hide billions of folk remedies in the "black holes" of the domestic military-industrial complex. The French will not participate in shady schemes. So all funds will go into business
      ++
  21. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 00: 40
    +3
    I read the comments .... and I just am thrilled with "delight"
    It turns out that Russian aircraft can’t live without the Zenith 9 BIOS. Fell under the table and cried for a long time ...
    It’s interesting, but at least someone generally wondered what BIOS is and what it is eaten with. Generally speaking, CIUS is a complex of electronic computing equipment and other technical means intended for the automated development of recommendations for controlling weapons and maneuvering in order to most effectively use combat and technical capabilities.
    So, it would seem obvious - in order to manage something, you need to know WHAT you manage (effective managers and their sympathizers, however, believe it is unnecessary - they are taxing, that furniture trade, MO is monoenergetic) But here BIUS cannot afford this - the equipment must clearly understand what is under its control. But as?
    Let's take a regular computer and try it on our fingers. You bought a computer, and your son - ay-ay! accidentally completed the "C colon" format and now you have to reinstall everything over a new one.
    But even if you are not an expert, you will not have problems with the installation - the drivers are at your fingertips, and if not, the Windows itself will pick up during the installation, and what it cannot - it will build on the internet after it gets up. Because all manufacturers understand that their "brainchild" will work under Windows and prepare it for this. But it sometimes happens that Windows cannot recognize something from the computer hardware in any way, and here dancing with a tambourine begins - you have to look for the driver you are looking for yourself. Usually this is not a problem - in the end, drivers are written for all devices and somewhere on the Internet the required driver (a program that explains how to work with the device) is sure to be there.
    But here we bought Zenith-9. we need to connect new devices to it (our weapons and radars) ... but how? !!! These are not drivers for the new dividend. These programs simply do not exist in nature - NOBODY AND NEVER merged the French BIUS with our equipment!
    So it’s completely incomprehensible to me - is it really unclear to gentlemen commentators that we will have to "fasten" Russian equipment to the French zenith on our own ?! And that when buying an imported bius, we just get a few iron and plastic boxes lying dead weight and maliciously winking at us with their bulbs!
    But here they may object to me - the driver is one thing, yes, we will have to write them ourselves, but we didn’t buy the drivers, but the Windows! And when we write the drivers, Zenit-9 keek will start, keek will show how the whole system should work in a complex ...
    A hell over there. She will not show anything. Because our weapons and other systems are very very different from the NATO ones. Many differences are fundamental. A simple example is that the same Aster missiles have an active homing head and the CIRS naturally takes into account the missile control procedure for such missiles (in which the surveillance radar and the GOS missiles are tied) And it’s another matter - our SPARs that have radio command control ... ( guidance is carried out on a separate channel of a special radar)
    The French BIUS was explained how it works and what are the capabilities of French weapons. She gives her recommendations out of what she knows. And what will she give out for our weapons? Who will explain her his possibilities ?!
    In general, in short - you have to redo everything and radically. And when (and if) everything is redone, then from ZENIT-9 there will be .... ehhkm ... well, maybe the name. Yes, seriously distorted hardware (because you have to connect our systems to it that are completely unsuitable for such a contact. And so, for us to independently and practically from scratch create a BIOS, we should pay SO MUCH ?!
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 00: 49
      +1
      In general, for some reason it seems to many that if you buy a small processor with programs to control the music center and put it to "steer" CNC machines somewhere at a pipe-rolling plant, then it will come out and a big push for the domestic industry ... crying
    2. with
      with 7 October 2012 02: 47
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      A hell over there. She will not show anything. Because our weapons and other systems are very very different from the NATO ones. Many differences are fundamental. A simple example is that the same Aster missiles have an active homing head and the CIRS naturally takes into account the missile control procedure for such missiles (in which the surveillance radar and the GOS missiles are tied) And it’s another matter - our SPARs that have radio command control ... ( guidance is carried out on a separate channel of a special radar)

      Andrei and cards in your hands, write software and that's it, we all had NATO, and you bow low !!!
      Or the most important thing to criticize ???
      It is a pity, esaul has gone somewhere, he would have smeared you for alarmism !!)) bully
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 03: 07
        +3
        Quote: met
        Andrei and cards in your hands, write software and that's it, we all had NATO, and you bow low !!!

        You will not understand one simple thing. But I wrote above, I quote
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Is our MO ordered someone to develop a modern BIUS, allocated research funds for this business? Nooo that you - it’s better to buy French and we will spend even more time and money on somehow forcing Zenit to work with our equipment.
        We can still really have a lot, but we haven’t delivered the magic wands, alas. In order for something to be done, you need to figure out what we want to get, then hold an honest tender, invest a little money and wait a little while controlling the development process, for which it would be nice to at least slightly understand what you are actually trying create .. Do you recognize our MO? I'm here - not at all

        I can’t take and write like this. And no one in the world can. Therefore, all normal countries have a normal system of state orders for new, promising developments, a very simplified algorithm of which I cited above. And we can’t put TK on the machine. Once we agreed to the point that the industry itself should offer samples and the Moscow Region will choose ... fool
        Quote: met
        Or the most important thing to criticize ???

        If I see that something needs to be criticized, I will criticize. If I see something worthy of praise, praise. With regard to our MO, the first is much more than the second.
        at the same time I will criticize you too - because to declare: "Do you think that the MO is doing badly? So do it well or not gundos" is "a little" incorrect. My resources are too incomparable with those of the Ministry of Defense. And if I have to do everything for MO - why the heck would I like this MO?
        Quote: met
        It is a pity, esaul has gone somewhere, he would have smeared you for alarmism !!))

        Ahhh, Esaul :))) .. well, he would have tried to smack, of course :)))) But with all due respect to you, you are evaluating the result of such a meeting a little incorrectly :)))
        1. with
          with 7 October 2012 03: 29
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          You will not understand one simple thing. But I wrote above, I quote

          Andrei, I didn’t spread the article for you, read it again, ATTENTIVELY !!!)))
          And understand, now is not 60 year !!!
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          And we can’t put TK on the machine. Once we agreed to the point that the industry itself should offer samples and the Moscow Region will choose ..

          Well, this is generally some kind of nonsense, where did you get this from?
          TK is usually written, then everything is done, but the MO does not accept for one reason or another (read the rollback) for reasons.))) But not everything is a carnival for the cat !!)))
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          If I see that something needs to be criticized, I will criticize. If I see something worthy of praise, praise. With regard to our MO, the first is much more than the second.

          You know, if you judge everything according to our press, then it will be so, but the dog barks, and the caravan goes !!))
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          at the same time I will criticize you too - because to declare: "Do you think that the MO is doing badly? So do it well or not gundos" is "a little" incorrect. My resources are too incomparable with those of the Ministry of Defense. And if I have to do everything for MO - why the heck would I like this MO?

          Then I had no doubt !!!))) hi Criticize, I do not mind, just don’t put a ban !!)) bully
          This is not at all for you - they love you, here we have some "goodsSiChi".
          Although I generally do not care!)))
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Ahhh, Esaul :))).

          It was just, for me at least, a normal moder !!!
          No, there are certainly enough of them here, but it was more fun with him, as well as with those with whom he "fought"!
          It is a pity that there are NO !!!
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 15: 53
            +1
            Quote: met
            Andrei, I didn’t spread the article for you, read it again, ATTENTIVELY !!!)))
            And understand, now is not 60 year !!!

            Apparently, we made different conclusions from this article.
            Quote: met
            You know, if you judge everything according to our press, then it will be so, but the dog barks, and the caravan goes !!))

            Well, what can you do if the dog has an opinion about where the caravan goes? laughing
    3. Botanologist
      Botanologist 7 October 2012 19: 53
      0
      And you, Andrei from Chelyabinsk, imagine the architecture of the BIOS and programs for it? And all the devices that the BIOS controls? If all this you associate with Windows, then tell me why in our army all control and communication channels are unique for each type of army, there is simply no BIUS as such on a scale even of an operational link, and systems for the operational display of information are drawn by an officer. Well, for steepness, video pictures are displayed on the screen.
      Or do you think that BIUS is such a Windows, only for the military? Alas, dear, this is a radically different architecture. And a completely new task, for which you need to prepare not only a computer, but the whole army.

      And here there is just a big difference - do you have a BIUS sample or not. For the price of any mistake is huge - you will not find firewood on the Internet.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 20: 40
        +1
        Quote: Botanologist
        And you, Andrei from Chelyabinsk, imagine the architecture of the BIOS and programs for it? And all the devices that the BIOS controls? If all this you associate with Windows - then tell me

        I tried to explain this in a simplified way. And the simplification is the simplification, so ... I see no reason for complaints.
        Quote: Botanologist
        And here there is just a big difference - do you have a BIUS sample or not.

        We seem to have a sample of ship CIUSs. Because the most BIUS on our ships have been around for a long time.
        Alley
        Diplomat
        Root
        Woodcutter
        The tablet
        Sigma
        Demand
        Throne
        Cloud
        Chord
        Omnibus
        Node
        Diamond
        District
        But our BIUS has some problems. One of them - we can’t connect all the weapon systems that are on the ship in such a way that they work as a single ensemble. This is precisely our main problem in terms of the BIOS, but it is with her that Zenit 9 is completely and in no way able to help us
  22. Magadan
    Magadan 7 October 2012 01: 12
    +2
    I think that it is impossible to foresee everything and invent everything. We make excellent air defense, tanks and aircraft with helicopters. The French quite possibly developed such a unique Mistral for our helicopters. It is quite possible that Mistral will come in handy for some kind of local conflict, and since they are transferring the full technology to us, it will probably help our electronic industry.
    But everything, however, is only "possible". How it will be there, we do not know.
    It’s also possible that our people want to tear Europe away from the USA, and Europe itself is also tired of lying under the USA, and this requires the independence of their armies. It is possible cooperation with Russia can help this. So far, they, as NATO’s, cannot buy our weapons, but, perhaps, as part of joint projects for the production of such weapons, they will be able to gradually switch from the US military-industrial complex to the Russian military-industrial complex.
    Again, these are all assumptions about how the hell will be there.
  23. Marine One
    Marine One 7 October 2012 01: 45
    0
    In general, Mistrals have more pluses than minuses. And at the Pacific Fleet they belong, for example, taking into account the factor of the Kuriles and Japan, which is developing a program to build its own helicopter carriers. In any case, Russia is not yet in a position to respond to all possible naval threats en masse and immediately. So the Mistrals in this regard are quite logical as one of the layers of defense.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 02: 10
      +1
      Quote: Marine One
      In general, Mistrals have more pluses than minuses. Yes, and at the Pacific Fleet they belong,

      Well yes. Where else can there be a ship designed for operations in the subtropics? Of course, at the Pacific Fleet he is the right place ...
      1. Marine One
        Marine One 7 October 2012 02: 24
        0
        The project involves fine-tuning the design in relation to operating conditions. I do not see any unsolvable problems here. This is still a large warship, not a firewall, which crumbles at low speed.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 02: 52
          +1
          Besides those, for example, for ice reinforcements you need to radically redesign the hull? Which the Frenchman is very flimsy, since it was created according to the norms of civil shipbuilding? A review of the entire ventilation and heating system? What about the runway material?
          A simple example - according to the norms of our military shipbuilding, the same helicopter on the TAVKr is served on the deck. there is provided for the supply of weapons, fuel, etc. But for the French, all preparations for the flight take place in the hangar. At the same time, the Mistrals have a huge window in the stern - incl. for natural ventilation .. And we use a more "volatile" fuel for flights - ie. the concentration of vapors in the hangar will be much higher than that of a Frenchman, but at the same time, one must forget about natural ventilation ...
          Now guess who makes all these additions. French people? Yes, nothing happened. Our design bureaus which the French paid from the sums transferred to them for the Mistral. But it’s hard for our design bureaus - instead of developing a design from scratch, they are forced to somehow force a design that is obviously unsuitable for this to work in the cold.
          There are no unsolvable problems. You can also cook porridge from an ax, you can also remove tonsils through the ass with a Druzhba chainsaw. But why? So, how did they express the flag here? So the flag can be demonstrated, why should the Mistral cling to it for this?
          In its current form, the Mistral poses no threat to anyone (well ... except for the paratroopers on board). Talking about some crazy transportation of troops to the Kuril Islands, in which case only a completely incompetent person can - just remember the size of the Japanese Air Force. and to estimate the proximity of their military airfields in order to understand everything at once - for we do not have aircraft carriers for cover. Or will we scare China with the Mistral landing ?! laughing crying
  24. with
    with 7 October 2012 03: 04
    -1
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    for we have no aircraft carriers for cover.

    Andrew, do not get carried away, I want to remind you that the aircraft carriers themselves need cover !!))
    And we have a little bit different !!)) bully
    The submarine forces of Russia are the striking force of the fleet, capable of controlling the vastness of the oceans, stealthily and quickly deploying in the right directions and delivering unexpected powerful strikes from the depths of the ocean to sea and continental targets.
    Somehow like this. request bully
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 03: 15
      +1
      Quote: met
      Andrew, do not get carried away, I want to remind you that the aircraft carriers themselves need cover !!))

      So what?
      Quote: met
      And we have a little bit different !!))

      Dear met, I don’t know about you, but in the USSR already in the 80's there was an understanding that
      Quote: met
      The submarine forces of Russia - the striking force of the fleet, capable of controlling the vastness of the oceans

      Alas, she is incapable of controlling these. And they began to build a balanced fleet, consisting of both SSGNs and TAVKRs with normal aviation - first Kuznetsovs, and then Ulyanovsk. You take the slogan of the Khrushchev times out of the storeroom and wave it ...
      It’s interesting - how will our nuclear submarines cover the same Mistrals along the road to the Kuril Islands from the attacks of the Japanese Air Force? How do you imagine this? :))))))
      1. with
        with 7 October 2012 03: 42
        0
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        So what?


        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        To control these, alas, it is incapable. And they began to build a balanced fleet, consisting of both SSGNs and TAVKRs with normal aviation - first the Kuznetsovs, and then the Ulyanovsk. You take the slogan of the Khrushchev times out of the storeroom and wave it ...

        Dear Andrey, if you are not a professional, then perhaps your point of view can still be understood somehow, but if you have a professional attitude to the Navy or to ship's automated control systems, then, alas, I cannot name your "laudatory" passages other than misinformation and sabotage I can.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It’s interesting - how will our nuclear submarines cover the same Mistrals along the road to the Kuril Islands from the attacks of the Japanese Air Force?

        I'm interested. Do you even understand what you're talking about ????
        And when did you see Japan with the naked eye for the last time or even armed ??
        Here there is Sasha Romanov, in my opinion he is from Vladivostok, he will tell you that Japan in good weather can be seen with no armed eyes!
        No, of course, if you want to flood further, then let us, until we are both banned !!!))) hi
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 16: 40
          +1
          Quote: met
          So what?

          Dear met, I am writing about aircraft carriers. You answer with one single phrase
          Quote: met
          Andrew, do not get carried away, I want to remind you that the aircraft carriers themselves need cover !!))

          So I am still at a loss what you wanted to say with this phrase. And what are you trying to prove. So you either explain your position, or keep a wise silence ..... just silently :))))) For neither this phrase of yours nor the demotivator, well, do not pull at proof of anything. So there is simply nothing to break on my "and what with that"
          Quote: met
          Dear Andrey, if you are not a professional, then perhaps your point of view can still be understood somehow, but if you have a professional attitude to the Navy or to ship's automated control systems, then, alas, I cannot name your "laudatory" passages other than misinformation and sabotage I can.

          You see, your statement contains estimates, but alas, it does not contain any valuable information. Can you explain why I would turn out to be a disinfectant and a pest? If - yes - explain in essence. If not, the value of your assessment is insignificant for me.
          Quote: met
          I'm interested. Do you even understand what you're talking about ????

          It is quite
          Quote: met
          from here there is Sasha Romanov, in my opinion he is from Vladivostok, he will tell you that Japan in good weather can be seen with no armed eyes!

          Look at the map :)))) You will see Japan either from the extreme point of Sakhalin (the Laperuz Strait has a little more than 40 km of width in the narrowest point) or from the same Kuril Islands.
          And then try to think - where will you lead the landing to the Kuril Islands? Really from Vladivostok ?! :))) Through the ear of the Laperuz Strait? !! :))) Where "Mistrals can be shot by everyone, including field artillery? And why can they be covered by airplanes except from the Kamenny Ruchey base ?! And in order to cover the landing in the Kuril Islands, they will have to operate through Hokkaido?
          So that you know - the only way to cover the landing in the Kuril Islands is to land from somewhere in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, placing an aircraft carrier (or better, a couple) somewhere in the same place - because from the base in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky to the Kuril Islands the order of 1000 km
          1. with
            with 7 October 2012 19: 25
            -1
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Look at the map :)))) You will see Japan either from the extreme point of Sakhalin (the Laperuz Strait has a little more than 40 km of width in the narrowest point) or from the same Kuril Islands.
            And then try to think - where will you lead the landing to the Kuril Islands? Really from Vladivostok ?! :))) Through the ear of the Laperuz Strait? !! :))) Where "Mistrals can be shot by everyone, including field artillery? And why can they be covered by airplanes except from the Kamenny Ruchey base ?! And in order to cover the landing in the Kuril Islands, they will have to operate through Hokkaido?
            So that you know - the only way to cover the landing in the Kuril Islands is to land from somewhere in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, placing an aircraft carrier (or better, a couple) somewhere in the same place - because from the base in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky to the Kuril Islands the order of 1000 km

            my mother told me not to mess with fools !!!))
            No, I wanted everything culturally, easy to explain !!
            I will no longer, if you are a young man who doesn’t want to cut your own, then no card will help you !!
            What kind of landing ??? What aircraft carriers ???
            I don’t even want to talk to you after such posts, I would advise you, I'm sorry that I’m wet in your life, turn on your mind and who is going to buy Mistral. in order to attack Japan ??? fool
            Strategist, toss him into a swing, "And then try to think - where will you lead the landing to the Kuril Islands?"
            You still tell me that Kursk was sunk by amers, and Kuzya is not able to withstand the AUG !!! fool
            God, where do you get it from?
            Tell me where you are fool take ???
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            So what?

            You also want to ascribe your phrase to me, you are not a casuist brother, you fool !!!
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            It is quite

            Taki Japan is not visible from Vladivostok ???))) bully
            If my friend is a pilot, still fly, but I don’t advise you to climb into the sea - TEAMS !!!))) bully
            Sorry for the harshness !!! hi
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 19: 48
              +1
              Quote: met
              Sorry for the harshness !!!

              Yes, I’m sorry, it’s not difficult for me. But do you understand that you look completely idiotic stupid?
              Where are the arguments? Where are the facts? Nothing - one hysteria ...
              Quote: met
              No, I wanted everything culturally, easy to explain !!

              Publishing demotivators - are these explanations? What comics did you learn at school, dearest?
              Quote: met
              Taki Japan is not visible from Vladivostok ???))) bully

              Can not see. From Vladivostok to the nearest coast of Japan - 650 km. And you are a victim of modern education, even a card will not help you.
              Quote: met
              You still tell me that Kursk was sunk by amers, and Kuzya is not able to withstand the AUG !!

              I won't say anything about Kursk - maybe amers, maybe not. I do not know. Well, about the fact that Kuznetsov can withstand the AUG ... not, alas. The level of your "competence" is clear. Colleague, measure the height of your knowledge with cockroaches - they are also below the baseboard and with them you have at least some chances.
              Quote: met
              You also want to ascribe your phrase to me, you are not a casuist brother, you

              Cheap juggling - I did not attribute to you the phrase "and so what?" But offered to explain why you blurted out your phrase that aircraft carriers need cover. And in vain, by the way. You only have enough pictures to publish, asking you for an explanation of your own words is pointless - you will still strain, tear your brain, and then they will judge me under an article for driving to suicide
              1. with
                with 7 October 2012 20: 13
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Yes, I’m sorry, it’s not difficult for me. But do you understand that you look completely stupidly stupid?
                Where are the arguments? Where are the facts? Nothing - one hysteria ...

                Arguments of what ???
                Or did you just wake up and not read the early posts ???
                Well, my friend, I’ll explain everything to you all over again, I won’t read the thread, maybe your brain will turn on !!))
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Publishing demotivators - are these explanations? What comics did you learn at school, dearest?

                Are you really fool to your post "And so what?" (Strong argument of course) They answered you with a demotivator !!!))
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Can not see. From Vladivostok to the nearest coast of Japan - 650 km. And you are a victim of modern education, even a card will not help you.

                Damn, it means that I and the residents of Vladivostok have good eyesight !!!))) bully
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Cheap juggling - I did not attribute to you the phrase "and so what?" But offered to explain why you blurted out your phrase that aircraft carriers need cover. And in vain, by the way. You only have enough pictures to publish, asking you for an explanation of your own words is pointless - you will still strain, tear your brain, and then they will judge me under an article for driving to suicide

                So how do I know what you in your mind meant ???
                I look at your posts and see that Mistral attack on Japan you are a master and strategist, however, as well as flood, the guys from the promised land will smoke with you !!!))) bully
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 20: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: met
                  Arguments of what ???

                  Nothing from you :))) But ... last time. I wrote
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Talking about some crazy transportation of troops to the Kuril Islands, in which case only a completely incompetent person can - just remember the strength of the Japanese Air Force. and to estimate the proximity of their military airfields in order to understand everything at once - for we do not have aircraft carriers for cover

                  You answered
                  Quote: met
                  Andrew, do not get carried away, I want to remind you that the aircraft carriers themselves need cover !!))

                  I asked
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  So what?

                  you answered this with a demotivator. So, I repeat the question - what did you mean by saying that aircraft carriers need cover and how does this contradict what I said?
                  Depending on your answer, I either continue to communicate with you - or not. Explain what you had in mind - we will talk further, again try to get away from the answer - we will finish.
                  Quote: met
                  Damn, it means that I and the residents of Vladivostok have good eyesight !!!)))

                  You do not speak for all the residents of Vladivostok :)))) They, I am sure, have good eyesight and do not suffer from hallucinations. And I will repeat it once again - from Vladik to the nearest coast of Yap - 630 is about kilometers, to hokkaido - 650. And you need to skip school from the 3 class, so as not to understand that Japan is not visible from Vladivostok.
                  Quote: met
                  I look at your posts and see that you are a master and strategist to attack Mistral to Japan,

                  laughing You write this to the person who wrote that
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Talking about some crazy transfer of troops to the Kuril Islands, in which case only a completely incompetent person can

                  Are you generally in terms of adequacy? Or confused me with someone? With the hallucination of Japan? :)))
                  1. with
                    with 7 October 2012 20: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    you answered this with a demotivator. So, I repeat the question - what did you mean by saying that aircraft carriers need cover and how does this contradict what I said?

                    So we misunderstood each other!
                    I meant that the aircraft carriers need cover and nothing else, except that the Mistrals also need it and the purchase of the Mistral (may be so) covers or forces our government to build destroyers!
                    That's all.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Talking about some crazy transportation of troops to the Kuril Islands, in which case only a completely incompetent person can - just remember the strength of the Japanese Air Force. and to estimate the proximity of their military airfields in order to understand everything at once - for we do not have aircraft carriers for cover

                    I didn’t read you right here yesterday, if only now I understood you correctly! hi
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    And I will repeat it once again - from Vladik to the nearest coast of Yap - 630 kilometers, to hokkaido - 650. And you need to skip school from 3rd grade so as not to understand that Japan is not visible from Vladivostok.

                    Even as you can see, if you do not understand the figurative expressions, then I’m afraid with you very badly or you weren’t in Vladik !!)))
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Depending on your answer, I either continue to communicate with you - or not. Explain what you had in mind - we will talk further, again try to get away from the answer - we will finish.

                    That's what I didn’t need at all, so it’s in your permission to communicate with someone !!))) bully
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Talking about some crazy transfer of troops to the Kuril Islands, in which case only a completely incompetent person can
                    Are you generally in terms of adequacy? Or confused me with someone? With the hallucination of Japan? :)))

                    As I understand it, now you don’t want to attack Japan with the Mistral?)))
                    Who will we connect now ????))) bully
                    1. Marine One
                      Marine One 7 October 2012 23: 01
                      +2
                      At some point, he imagined how Andrei from Chelyabinsk and met in boyar hats or Hungarian camisoles stood that way in the year 1715 in front of Peter I and pulled each other for the remnants of shaven beards: "- Didn't lead, sir, Dutch frigates to buy! - Don't listen, sovereign-emperor, order, for our shipbuilders are drunkards and they cannot create the necessary vessel. " And Peter listens, slowly boils and twists his famous cane. smile
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 23: 23
                        +2
                        Quote: Marine One
                        At some point, it seemed that Andrei from Chelyabinsk and met in boyar hats or Hungarian camisoles stood in the 1715 year in front of Peter I in the year X and pulled each other for the remains of shaved beards:

                        Who are you ?! laughing Why is it here, against the Bolyar clan, dare to keep a speech? !! laughing laughing Do you honor neither the rank of Bolyarsky, nor the age of the venerable, nor the ensign with a generic signet ?! laughing laughing laughing From I you, Streletsky you son ... laughing laughing laughing laughing
                      2. Marine One
                        Marine One 7 October 2012 23: 54
                        +2
                        Bravo, gentlemen, bravo! laughing
                      3. with
                        with 7 October 2012 23: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: Marine One
                        At some point, introduced himself as Andrew from Chelyabinsk and met




                        Quote: Marine One
                        - Do not listen, sovereign-emperor, order, for our shipbuilders are drunkards and cannot create the necessary vessel "


                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv6IsHXvmsU&feature=BFa&l
                        Quote: Marine One
                        Peter listens, slowly boils, and twists his famous cane.


                    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2012 23: 29
                      +2
                      Quote: met
                      I meant that the aircraft carriers need cover and nothing else, except that the Mistrals also need it and the purchase of the Mistral (may be so) covers or forces our government to build destroyers!

                      Destroyers yes - it's high time. But they can be without mistral, one missile defense one :)))))
                      That's what I didn’t need at all, so it’s in your permission to communicate with someone !!)))

                      And you read carefully what I write to you.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Depending on your answer, I either continue to communicate with you - or not. Explain what you had in mind - we will talk further, again try to get away from the answer - we will finish.

                      You see, in this matter I write STRICTLY AND EXCLUSIVELY for myself, but not for you, so no one encroaches on your rights. With whom and how you communicate - it is only yours. It’s not about the fact that I forbid you to communicate with me, but that under certain conditions I’ll just stop answering you. And to stop answering is my right, isn't it? wink
                      Quote: met
                      As I understand it, now you don’t want to attack Japan with the Mistral?)))

                      So I didn’t want to :)))
                      I talked about the fact that Mistral at the Pacific Fleet is generally useless. That's how an element of, say, an oceanic connection with an aircraft carrier, destroyers, submarines ... still goes wherever, and even that project could have been better.
                      1. with
                        with 7 October 2012 23: 35
                        0
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Destroyers yes - it's high time. But they can be without mistral, one missile defense one :)))))

                        Then I do not quite understand ???
                        Well, that’s not the point, the main thing is that WE understood each other!)) drinks hi
                        Therefore, I propose ...



                        Finish flood and go to sleep, tomorrow to work !!!)))
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 October 2012 00: 05
                        +2
                        Quote: met
                        Then I do not quite understand ???

                        Just recently, the need for destroyers in the media has often been justified by the need for a parity response to the anti-satellite SM3 on Arly Berks and Ticonderogs. Like, we also need BIG and OCEAN ships on which it will be possible to deliver C-500 level anti-missiles!
                        I laughed for a long time over such a rationale, but we need ocean destroyers like bread, like air ... Therefore, if the Russian government starts building a large series of ten thousand-ton destroyers, motivating this ... well, let's say, the need to observe UFOs in oceanic areas and the threat of invasion from Mars, I will shout "URYA !!!" and I will be the first to run to enroll in the society of ufologists " laughing
                        Quote: met
                        Therefore, I propose ...

                        drinks noticeable :)))
                      3. with
                        with 8 October 2012 09: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Therefore, if the government of the Russian Federation starts building a large series of XNUMX-ton destroyers, motivating it ... well, say, by the need to observe UFOs in ocean areas and the threat of invasion from Mars, I will shout "URYa !!!" and be the first to run to enroll in the society of ufologists "laughing

                        No, well, there’s obviously too much, on Mars they didn’t find life !!))) bully
                        But the purchase of Mistrals is a "good" reason, otherwise to hell why are they needed, as I wrote before, until it comes to my mind !!! ??? bully
                        I will remember about the society of ufologists and if a miracle happens, I will remind you !!)) bully hi
                      4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 October 2012 10: 14
                        +2
                        Quote: met
                        No, well, there’s obviously too much, on Mars they didn’t find life !!)))

                        Do you remember such a wonderful film - "DMB"?
                        - Do you see the gopher?
                        - No!
                        - And I do not ... But he is !!!
                        Quote: met
                        I will remember about the society of ufologists and if a miracle happens, I will remind you !!))

                        I will not give up my words :))) hi
  25. Bosk
    Bosk 7 October 2012 09: 25
    +1
    By the way, this is probably one of those rare contracts where all the money went into business, WITHOUT ROLLBACK.
    1. bamboo
      bamboo 7 October 2012 16: 37
      0
      Well, what the French were paid, then yes, maybe))))
      But when our start to build ............ uh .....
      And interestingly, our Mistralka will be built within the same time frame ??? ))) smile
      BETS ARE ACCEPTED !!!!!!!
      write in a personal, I’ll keep all the info, I hope it will be needed)))
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 7 October 2012 20: 07
        0
        Well, if all the kickbacks pay on time, then I think it's even faster.
  26. Nuclear_eagle
    Nuclear_eagle 7 October 2012 11: 12
    +1
    Very good ships needed by our fleet. They all started with something, and so did the USSR. I think this is only the beginning, in the future ours, of course, will do even better, as has already happened more than once in history.
  27. Holms
    Holms 7 October 2012 12: 43
    +2
    It seems to me that the acquisition of the Mistral will have a good effect on the development of the Far East in all respects.
  28. Gfiw
    Gfiw 7 October 2012 14: 44
    +1
    Good ships. We will find them to use. smile
  29. sergey261180
    sergey261180 7 October 2012 14: 46
    +1
    I was pleased with one thing. The highways will be in 2014 and 2015. Our 30 years would have built them! And the fact that a dubious dish, so what's the difference on what money litter? At the APEC summit, $ 20000000 was also thrown out. I think that Mistral love will be more useful than summits.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 7 October 2012 18: 42
      +1
      $ 20000000 is not money, unless you can buy a helicopter for it, and then not everyone.
      1. sergey261180
        sergey261180 8 October 2012 16: 35
        0
        Sorry. So many zeros, I had a charge of 6 in my eyes, but here I had 9. In short, 20 billion (like I wrote correctly). feel
  30. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 7 October 2012 16: 41
    +1
    "Information about the armament of the Mistrals by means of attack, such as launching complexes of supersonic cruise missiles, was confirmed by the Russian General Staff. According to the source, the Russian military is not satisfied with the approach of the French shipbuilders to equipping the DVKD with weapons. Ships of a similar class, which are in service with the French Navy," in fact, they are just large amphibious transporters stuffed with modern combat control, communications, reconnaissance and navigation systems. Mistrals act as floating command posts, but they themselves are practically defenseless from enemy attacks and require intensive cover from the sea and air by other ships and air force units ...


    However, in the case of Mistral, it still seems that this contract is nothing more than a gift from Russia to France in general and Nicolas Sarkozy in particular in payment for support during the five-day war. "Politics is a concentrated expression of economics." And even smiles come at a price. "
    Colonel Baranets