Pistol GSH-18. Impressions from the first meeting

74
Pistol GSH-18. Impressions from the first meeting

I had a chance to hold the GSh-18 pistol in my hands fifteen years ago, and it was not a serial model. Just hold on for a couple of minutes. No shooting, no disassembly-assembly. It is clear that, in fact, there was nothing to say about him, except for the performance characteristics, which are publicly available:

Constructor: Vasily Gryazev
Manufacturer: TOZ
Adoption: 2000
Weight:
0,47 kg (without magazine)
0,59 kg (with empty magazine)
0,8 kg (with a full magazine)
Dimensions: (LxWxH, barrel length, mm) 183x34x136, 103
Shop: box-shaped double row for 18 rounds
Cartridge: 9x19 mm 7H31 (armor-piercing), Parabellum (Luger), etc.
Muzzle velocity: 350–600 m/s (depending on cartridge type)
Muzzle Energy: 450 J
Target range: 50 meters
Principles of operation: recoil of the barrel with its short stroke.



An essential design feature is the mechanism for locking the bolt by turning the barrel. This is very rare, something similar is done (if sclerosis does not change me) Austrians and Slovenes.


Tactile sensations


I will compare with PM and PMM. The first is the most common and well known to most Soviet and Russian officers and ensigns, the second is closer to the GSh-18 in terms of parameters.

Firstly, the “empty” GSh is perceived as lighter than the PM, although it looks larger. With a magazine loaded with a dozen rounds, it feels like a fully “filled” PM.

Second, grip. The angle of inclination of the handle for all these models is the same, therefore, in the hand stuffed with Makarov, the GSh lies as usual. Until I wrapped my fingers around the handle. In PM, the width of the handle is much greater than the thickness, in PMM, the handle is thicker, but still the difference between width and thickness is noticeable. In the GSh, the handle is perceived as some kind of rounded, and even slippery, which raises the fear that control weapons in the horizontal plane is not very reliable.

However, the standard test for the correct stance and grip (this is when you took a stance, closed your eyes, pointed the weapon at the target, opened your eyes and assessed where you actually aimed the fly) the General Staff passed without problems. The main thing is not to swing it from side to side.

Third, the descent. Here unpleasant surprises awaited me. The fact is that the trigger of the GSh is not at all a hook rotating on an axis, but a trigger key moving horizontally. It also has a safety button on it. And when you start to pull it smoothly with the usual movement, the upper edge of the index finger for some reason is pressed against the lower edge of the pistol body. And there is just a slot in which the trigger goes. And the edges of this slot are sharp. The finger is very uncomfortable.


It does not add comfort that the trigger, even before choosing a free stroke, is a little closer to the handle than that of the Makarov. The finger involuntarily slips further than necessary, and lies on the descent not in the middle of the first phalanx, but in the joint between the first and second. You have to move your finger. Although my hand seems to be average, and my fingers have not grown very much.

Further - worse. The trigger moves in jerks, as if with a rattle (perhaps due to the fact that an additional cocking is being carried out). The moment of descent differs from shot to shot. This is likely an instance specific issue. After all, weapons must be cherished and cherished, periodically arrange thorough maintenance for them. Maybe you can go around with jewelry polishing paste in some places (just not with the green GOI grinding paste, or even spontaneous shots can be polished). But not everyone takes care of personal weapons diligently, which can be demanded from a public shooting gallery.

For a snack - shop equipment. A dozen rounds are driven into the store by hand without problems. A dozen and a half - "not only everyone can do it, few people can." A full magazine (18) is unrealistic to equip with hands. True, there is a device in the kit: a guide that looks like a straightened rifle clip, and a plastic “snap”, through which the cartridges typed into the “clip” (five pieces at a time) are pressed into the magazine with a fair sharp effort, more than a dozen - already whole body weight.


Yes, and loading the gun by simply inserting the magazine into the handle and pressing until it clicks will not work. The store should not be weakly “knocked out” with the base of the palm (although for those who are familiar, for example, with AR, this is not a wonder).

And the store is removed without problems, and the eject button is groped intuitively, pressed with moderate effort, but the probability of pressing it by accident is very small.

The shutter release lever is just as intuitive and convenient.

Well, for dessert - incomplete disassembly. I have never met such a kunshtuk. First of all, you need to pick up the shutter delay lever with the rim of the magazine and pull out this design!


Then everything is simple and without tricks.

By the way, the mass of the casing-bolt, barrel and return spring with a pin is a significant (if not larger) part of the total mass of the gun. The frame itself is light, that is, the center of mass is as close as possible to the axis of the barrel, which theoretically should have a positive effect on the accuracy of fire, including by reducing the toss of the barrel when fired.

Let's get down to business


A decent range. Several galleries for different weapons - from slingshots, throwing knives and crossbows to rifle-caliber machine guns. The weapon is only civilian and "civilized", that is, the mode of firing bursts from automatic weapons is technically excluded. Photo and video filming is prohibited.

I happened to shoot in a non-native 100-meter gallery for a pistol. We measured 25 meters, set up a table, next to it was a 40-fold tube on a tripod to control the results.
The target is unusual, it seems, for crossbow archers. The outer diameter (“1”) is 50 cm, the black circle (“7”) is 20 cm. Of course, I would prefer the usual green “Chest Figure” (Target No. 4), but what is, is.

The front sight of the pistol is thick, at this distance it almost covers the "bullseye" in diameter. More precisely, it overlaps "8" and half of "7". But even on a black background it is quite distinguishable.

Ammunition - 30 rounds (sports and hunting, steel sleeve, produced either by Tula or Barnaul). Just in time to equip the store three times with 10 rounds without "snapping".

First approach. Shooting while standing, grip with one hand. The rate of fire is 1-1,5 seconds per shot. The uncomfortable descent is noticeably annoying. After the fifth shot, I took a break for 15 seconds, rested, adjusted my grip, and continued at the same pace.

Sleeves fly almost vertically upwards, deviating slightly back. Several times he received shell casings on his hands and kumpol.

On the photo of the target, this series is marked with red crosses. Four out of ten shots frankly "broke".


The second approach is shooting while standing with a “two-handed” grip, the pace is the same. Already better (orange circles in the photo). I stopped being distracted by the discomfort of the descent and the incoming shells. I shot the magazine without pauses, but the right hand, especially the muscles of the index finger, were somewhat tired.

I appreciated the more comfortable return than that of Makarov. Despite the XNUMX-fold superiority of the GSh in muzzle energy, the recoil is perceived to be quite strong, but some kind of “softer”. Apparently, the rollback and rotation of the barrel, which “stretch” the recoil momentum, affects. And yes, the barrel returns to the line of sight much faster than the PM / PMM.

Green rhombuses with lines in the photograph of the target mark the results of the third, “abnormal” approach.

In the era of the VCR craze, I stumbled upon some foreign action movie, where there was an episode of police training. The technique is unpretentious: a target jumps out from behind an obstacle, the policeman abruptly drops to one knee, one of his hands takes out a weapon, and the other at that time is sent to the target, a hand with a weapon is immediately put into it, two shots are fired with a minimum interval. Change of position, assessment of the situation, if necessary - a couple more shots, and so on. A small nuance: their shooting distance is about half that of mine.

Why not try? I tried, only the target did not move, but motionlessly and meekly waited for its fate.

After each pair of shots, I reduced the distance of a meter by one and a half to two. Photo result. The missing two bullets (the first and third shots) went to the right.

“Drift to the right” is most likely caused by the fact that in a hurry I reflexively pushed my index finger too far into the bracket and thereby slightly pulled the gun to the right when I quickly pressed the trigger.

Vertical spread is inevitable with such shooting, because aiming is carried out “along the barrel”. But the fact that the second shot in a pair is always lower than the first is the result of a more energetic return of the barrel to the aiming line than required. This, apparently, is also a reflex from the PM.

Although, probably, for a distance of 25–15 meters this is still not a fiasco and, undoubtedly, it can be treated with training.

What's the bottom line?


One must have extraordinary self-confidence in order to draw some conclusions and generalizations after three dozen shots from a single weapon. I will share some considerations based on subjective feelings.

In my opinion, for its niche, the GSh-18 pistol is very good. What is the niche? And ask on the Internet who adopted it. Couriers, prosecutors, others like them. That is, those for whom the likely scenario is a short-range battle at close range, repelling a surprise attack with the ability to hold out until help arrives. Two magazines of 18 rounds each (and the main standard cartridge is armor-piercing) for these purposes is the very thing. Bulk cartridges for reloading prosecutors do not carry in their pockets.

That would be worth fixing, so it's a clumsy descent and slippery to the touch handle.
In addition, the pistol clearly requires good systematic care and maintenance, and most importantly, the development of sustainable skills and reflexes.

But in general, despite my grumblings, the first impressions of the GSh-18 are positive.
74 comments
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  1. +16
    11 May 2022 16: 42
    The KBP now has a "finished" model GSh-18. It would be interesting to read (or see) a review about it!
    1. +11
      11 May 2022 17: 39
      Still interesting. I enjoyed reading the article on the topic. And then I’m already tired of this Ukraine and everything connected with it ...
    2. +12
      11 May 2022 18: 50
      Hello, Nikolay!

      The KBP now has a "finished" model GSh-18. It would be interesting to read (or see) a review about it!

      I received the impressions described in the article a few days ago.
      But when it will be possible to try this "finished" GSh - I'm even afraid to guess. But I will do it as soon as possible. And, of course, I will share my new impressions!

      Best regards, hi
      1. +14
        11 May 2022 19: 52
        Apparently, the author's skill in shooting from the PM is already in reflexes, and the palms are apparently a little larger than * the average size.
        Soft recoil and the ability to destroy the target without looking at the bulletproof vest in a short clash is worth a lot. Classic aiming with the front sight is not practiced. During the clash, other skills work.
        The fact that the * trigger * is somewhat different, different from the usual one, is somewhat annoying, but after about a hundredth shot, it gradually gets used.
        Thanks to the author for an honest attitude to this gun. Tired of panegyrics * to Glock * and other shooters, I had the opportunity to make sure that * fashion * for firearms is most often just a PR action of merchants and has little to do with real fighting qualities.
        1. +8
          11 May 2022 20: 09
          Vasily50 (Dmitry):
          Apparently the author has the skill of shooting from PM already in reflexes,

          Yes, that is right. I have been “friends” with PM, PMM, PSM for 40 years.

          and the palms are apparently a little larger * medium size *

          Well, here is a photo of the left palm (left take a picture of the right one “not from the hand”, but they are the same, only the right one with several wounds):


          Classic aiming with the front sight is not practiced.

          I agree. I tried "on the barrel". At a distance of more than 15 meters - requires thorough training.

          Thanks to the author for an honest attitude to this gun.

          And you, Dmitry, thank you for your kind words! hi
      2. +3
        11 May 2022 20: 53
        Hello Michael. I will be waiting (and, I hope, not only me) for your new story!
        Konstantin Lazarev on his YouTube channel has long promised to show a comparison of the Udav, Aspid and Poloz pistols. He said that "the material has been filmed - it remains to be edited", but for almost a year it has not been possible to see this very interesting comparison!
        1. +7
          11 May 2022 21: 18
          I will be waiting (and, I hope, not only me) for your new story!


          Nikolay!
          I am not at all averse to sharing my impressions.
          But, first of all, I don't want to repeat hackneyed stories. And secondly, not all impressions are suitable for publication.
          So, for example, about three years ago I had a chance to shoot (purely for informational purposes, three shots) from a pistol, the cartridge cases of which look like this:

          This is not the first pistol of this purpose, and the cartridge has long been known, but there are a couple of interesting innovations here. And, alas, the weapon has not yet left the prototype stage.
          Appears in the public sphere - not the fact that it will be possible to immediately get to know him better.
          But if a suitable plot develops, it will not rust behind me!

          hi
          1. +4
            12 May 2022 00: 56
            Quote: OldMichael
            But if a suitable plot develops, it will not rust behind me!


            Let's hope it works out. And not alone.
          2. +3
            12 May 2022 12: 44
            Very good, Michael. I am over 60 years old. A few years ago I gave myself a "birthday present". Visited the "Baltic Shooting Center" in Leningrad. First time shooting from a short barrel. I immediately tried PYa, Glock-17, CZ-75, Sig-Sauer P-226 and Beretta M-92. Maybe I'm such a patriot ... but most of all I liked PY ("Viking")! In the hand sits like a glove. Sights are clear. The return is comfortable. The descent is soft. At 25 meters 85 points! I repeat, I shot from a short barrel for the first time!
            1. +2
              12 May 2022 13: 40
              I immediately tried PYa, Glock-17, CZ-75, Sig-Sauer P-226 and Beretta M-92.

              Well Nicholas...
              I think it's too much for one day. So you really don’t feel the weapon. Better one at a time, but in detail: shot a magazine - analyze the sensations, think it over, figure out how best to use it. And so three times. Loading more than one day is unproductive.

              most of all I liked PJ ("Viking")!

              Shot from this for a long time. Seemed heavy. But mostly I agree.

              At 25 meters 85 points! I repeat, I shot from a short barrel for the first time!

              The right weapon in the right hand!

              hi
              1. +3
                12 May 2022 17: 39
                Quote: OldMichael
                The right weapon in the right hand!

                Well, let's recap. Firstly, I envy white envy, I didn’t have a chance to try the General Staff. But I shot right here with you. (I tried it, I liked it very much) I repeat, the General Staff didn’t take it into my grip, but judging by your feelings, not everything is so .. Firstly, as “Vasily 50 (Dmitry)” correctly said, everyone here agrees with him. For a specific application according to the situation, aiming only at the barrel and here you need to train, here intuition is at the head.
                Secondly, apparently (according to your feelings), the descent is not particularly intuitive and comfortable (approximately imagined), here again getting used to and training, otherwise it’s unlikely that this weapon will hit by accident and you will have to use it, here your gun is always broad-shouldered. hi
            2. 0
              11 August 2022 11: 02
              Shot from many short barrels in the same place good
              I liked PY significantly more than GSH.
              The most comfortable was, nevertheless, the Glock-17.
              The most difficult thing was to shoot (with the same ergonomics) from a Glock chambered for .40S & W (the result is about the same as with the PM).
    3. +2
      12 May 2022 09: 32
      Of course, designers should not lose their skills in any case. But this pistol will never be adopted by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. There, the Kalashnikov concern staked out everything.
      1. +1
        12 May 2022 10: 40
        Hello Vladimir!
        this pistol will never be adopted by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.


        And what the hell is not joking?
        The world is changing faster now than even ten years ago!
        hi
        1. +2
          12 May 2022 11: 19
          I would not say. No wonder Krivoruchko became deputy MO. While he is in charge of the military-technical support of the Armed Forces, the Kalashnikov concern is in favor
          1. +2
            12 May 2022 11: 31
            Woland also spoke about the suddenness of some events laughing
          2. +1
            12 May 2022 11: 32
            In addition, QC can easily pull over the blanket of mass production what
            1. +4
              12 May 2022 11: 36
              Under no circumstances will this be done. They will show that they themselves have a mustache. And give out their samples to the mountain. Pistol Lebedev, Rook, Boa constrictor
              1. +1
                12 May 2022 11: 41
                Possible.
                Life will show hi
              2. 0
                12 May 2022 12: 54
                Vladimir, is Lebedev's pistol bad? Personally, my opinion is that neither in the USSR, nor in modern Russia, a more beautiful pistol was created. In addition, he passed ALL the tests, which means not just "beautiful", but also reliable! By the way, the Grach pistol does not exist. "Rook" is a topic for the development of an army pistol, as a result of which, in 2003, PYa, GSh-18 and SPS (SR-1) pistols were adopted for service.
                Well, "Boa" is a pistol developed by TsniiTochmash, which has nothing to do with KK.
      2. +3
        12 May 2022 12: 31
        Dear Vladimir, "adoption into service" does not mean "delivery to the troops." For example, the AN-94 "Abakan" assault rifle, "adopted for service" - but where is it in the Army ?! Also, this pistol was "put into service" in 2003 along with PYa and SR-1 (SPS). But in the Army, only the PJ was widely "lit up". It is possible that GSh-18 and SR-1 are used by special forces in limited quantities.
        1. 0
          13 May 2022 06: 29
          Greetings colleague
          Regarding adoption:
          SR-1 was tightly registered in the FSB, probably because of the cartridge, which is quite rare,
          GSh-18 - service pistol of the Ministry of Justice, I believe the reason is weight.
          I managed to use only the sports version of the GSh-18 in a paid shooting range, by the way, a rather fresh, not hackneyed trunk was caught, what can I say ...
          the design is ingenious, it’s really a pocket air gun, taking the old Krnk scheme and bringing it to such a level of implementation is really ingenious .., but / without but nothing wink /:
          if with metal, the same USM, the plant is trying to do something and doing something - evidence of this is the good results of the factory team armed with this barrel, then with a plastic frame - there are no words, only expressions; only the magazines included in the kit are suitable for the pistol, the rest - sorry, you need to customize, guys, well, it’s not the 43rd year, when PPSh was assembled in any metal repair and the boys customized a set of magazines to each barrel, then there was such a time, otherwise nothing, But now what's stopping you! well, there is one, purely constructive, feature - no matter how you are outstretched with the preparation and shooting: from outstretched arms, from two hands, from the hip, - your muzzle of the face, sorry smile , will collect the lion's share of the gases emitted after the sleeve, but this is already a constructive feature that you have to put up with.
          Sincerely.
  2. +20
    11 May 2022 16: 59
    GSh-18 is a small aircraft gun. This pistol is designed for a special cartridge capable of piercing a 3rd class body armor from this baby.
    Unique weapon. However, like all the work of the old comrades Gryazev and Shipunov.
    Honor and respect for these Soviet and Russian designers, modern left-handers.
    1. +11
      11 May 2022 19: 16
      Vasily Petrovich Gryazev was a simple person in communication. I had a chance to talk with him a little, he helped with his advice. Eternal memory to talented engineers.
      1. 0
        12 May 2022 13: 33
        You are absolutely right. Personally, I believe that the KBP should have rightfully carried the "double" name of "Academicians Gryazev and Shipunov"! good hi
  3. +4
    11 May 2022 17: 00
    It would be a good replacement for the PM family, as an officer’s personal weapon (when you don’t need to get it out and use it often, but you have to wear it all the time). In its niche - a very worthy device.
    1. +8
      11 May 2022 17: 55
      It would be a good replacement for the PM family, as an officer’s personal weapon (when you don’t need to get it out and use it often, but you have to wear it all the time).


      Hello Roma!

      I don’t think that the GSh is a universal replacement for the “PM family”.
      Different users have very different likely use cases. It's one thing - a rocket/air defense officer on combat duty. The other is an ensign for the protection of a special regime facility. The field post outfit or the driver of the head of the secret service is the third. Yes, and in the ground forces, at least four groups of military personnel can be distinguished who require a short barrel, but slightly different.
      Therefore, there is still no adequate replacement for "Makarov", with which you can "both in the world, and in a feast, and in good people."
      It is clear that a family of the most unified weapons would be close to optimal, including models that meet the needs of the largest consumer groups.
      But nothing of the sort has yet been observed.

      Best regards,
      hi
      1. +1
        11 May 2022 18: 09
        "Makarov" is completely obsolete. And "Glocks" do not shine for our warriors. But there is a GSh, reliable, inexpensive in mass production, light, compact (and at the same time also capable of penetrating **-class body armor). Yes, it requires a new handling skill, which is why the old shooters do not like it.
        1. +6
          11 May 2022 18: 45
          GSh, reliable, inexpensive in mass production, light, compact (and at the same time also capable of penetrating **-class bulletproof vests). Yes, it requires a new handling skill, which is why the old shooters do not like it.


          As for the mass character - in my opinion, the Makarov will no longer be mass-produced, since modern conditions are increasingly making us think about the specialization of any instrument. Even an ax and a hammer in a universal form lose to specialized designs. The shoemaker's hammer and the tinsmith's hammer, the lumberjack's ax and the carpenter's ax did not constructively diverged yesterday, and not even the day before yesterday.
          Therefore, a reasonable solution seems to be a family of the most unified pistols with the characteristics of various models tailored to specific needs. For someone, instead of an “oak” magazine for 18 rounds, a single-row, easily equipped magazine for 10 rounds would be more convenient. For someone, Picatinny under the barrel would fit. For someone else - cut the thread for the PBS on the barrel (on the movable barrel? hmm ...).

          hi
          1. +1
            12 May 2022 00: 53
            Quote: OldMichael
            for PBS, cut into the barrel (on the movable barrel? hmm ...).

            With a short barrel stroke, b.w. not affect the operation of automation, PBS is installed on the barrel through a spring-loaded movable sleeve.
            1. +2
              12 May 2022 02: 28
              PBS is installed on the barrel through a spring-loaded movable sleeve.

              I've heard about this out of the corner of my ear, but I imagine it very vaguely.
              I saw a different picture: a bayonet rigidly connected to the frame with a sealing insert. Also a dubious design.
              Still, for those tasks where PBS is required, it is worth choosing a more specialized weapon (a little higher there is a comment on this topic with a photo of the cartridge case).
              hi
  4. +4
    11 May 2022 17: 02
    The TT33 also has a trigger, a rather soft trigger, a drawback? Single action escapement? Not critical .. With the introduction of a striker blocker into the design, it would also be completely safe .. And even more so to keep the defense ...
    1. +4
      11 May 2022 18: 56
      With the introduction of a striker blocker into the design, it would also be completely safe ..


      Hello, Alexander!
      In GSh-18, there are already four (!) Protection levels, so much more!
      But the advanced platoon (which is also one of these steps) when you press a key, it definitely requires, at a minimum, refinement / fine-tuning of some details.

      hi
      1. +1
        12 May 2022 17: 49
        Dear, I'm talking about TT))
        1. 0
          12 May 2022 20: 44
          Then I agree hi
  5. sen
    +3
    11 May 2022 17: 07
    Pistol GSH-18. Impressions from the first meeting

    Automation is based on a short barrel stroke, which allows you to have a lighter shutter.
    The German machine gun MG-42 has the same principle, which allows you to increase the accuracy of fire, since the barrel is shock-absorbed. Depreciation, but already the entire PKMT in the tank, also allows you to increase the accuracy of fire.
    1. +1
      11 May 2022 17: 12
      Quote: sen
      Depreciation, but already the entire PKMT in the tank, also allows you to increase the accuracy of fire.

      Cushioning or rigid fixation on the platform? And PKMT or PKTM?
  6. +2
    11 May 2022 17: 15
    Make notches on the handle - and it will not slip. And the descent - yes-ah-ah. Although the demon knows him, a person gets used to everything
    1. +5
      11 May 2022 18: 04
      Make notches on the handle - and it will not slip.

      The grips on the handles were probably initially more corrugated, and the surface was less slippery. But I got my hands on just such a copy. No, it does not hang in the hand. However, the narrowed upper part of the handle, combined with its “rounded” section, causes a very unusual feeling.

      And the descent - yes-ah-ah. Although the devil knows him, a person gets used to everything.

      Actually, I said about this in conclusion - everything is treated by training.

      My regards hi
      1. +1
        11 May 2022 18: 07
        Quote: OldMichael
        However, the narrowed upper part of the handle

        That's the only thing that comes to mind, in combination with the "keyboard" trigger - maybe some other grip is meant there? I honestly can’t imagine myself with a keyboard release, the barrel will twitch like a paranoid ...
        1. +5
          11 May 2022 18: 21
          the trunk will twitch like a paranoid

          You know, in fact, at the moment of the shot, he doesn’t really twitch. But while you pull the "trigger" - there are tremors, and not weak ones.

          maybe there is some other grip implied?

          So I switched to two-handed after the first approach. The result is in the picture. Not being a sniper, he always shot no worse than "good". Here and here - a confident "four", but only with a two-handed grip. For the first time - not a marriage.
          And if the gun is personal, and a couple of times a month it is given an hour or two (for training and careful maintenance), then in six months the result will be completely different.
          hi
  7. +2
    11 May 2022 18: 01
    The Italians have a popular model with a twist of the barrel. According to rumors, at one time the purchase of a license for its production by the Russian Federation was considered - but it did not grow together.
  8. BAI
    +2
    11 May 2022 19: 34
    He also held it in his hands. At an exhibition in Rosoboronexport. All experts in chorus noted the unfortunate location of the fuse on the trigger. The finger hurts. In all other respects, it makes a better impression than the PM.
    1. +2
      11 May 2022 23: 49
      Thank you, good article, interesting, I only shot PM, TT, APS myself .. And I just saw it ..
      1. +3
        12 May 2022 00: 34
        Hello Andrey!

        he himself shot only PM, TT, APS .. And I just saw this.


        So I happened to more or less “feel” the General Staff live for the first time. To be honest, the difference with the pistols you named is very noticeable. It's a COMPLETELY different weapon.

        Thanks, good article, interesting


        And thank you for your rating!

        hi
        1. +1
          12 May 2022 06: 51
          Yes, I shot their old revolver a couple of times, and a model Chechen "a la Borz")))
    2. +3
      12 May 2022 00: 27
      experts in chorus noted the unfortunate location of the fuse on the trigger. The finger hurts.


      If your, Dear BAI, remark refers to the General Staff (and not to the above post about Beretta), then the point is probably not in the fuse on the “trigger”, but in its profile that is not quite suitable for a bare finger. Well, the sharp edges of the groove can be processed at the factory, and not force officers to look for a needle file.

      hi
  9. +1
    11 May 2022 23: 33
    The handle... something reminded me of the handle of my brushless screwdriver, some kind of rounded, without an accentuated width-thickness.
    But it is with the handle that we turn the necessary fractions of a degree horizontally, they are also the most important in practical shooting - it is always better to hit the enemy above or below the desired location than to miss the left or right.
    1. +3
      12 May 2022 00: 13
      it is with the handle that we turn the necessary fractions of a degree horizontally, they are the most important in practical shooting


      I totally agree with you Andrew!

      If your body just deviated 10 cm to the side when shooting, then the point of impact will shift by the same 10 cm (at any distance). But if the axis of the barrel turned by 1 degree, then at a distance of 25 meters the deviation will be half a meter!

      In addition, the hand of our hand is designed so that it is not prone to involuntary deviation up and down. If the vertical sight is taken correctly, then the deviation in the vertical plane (with the right grip) will be insignificant. With correct aiming, only an excessively sharp pull on the trigger can “lower” the point of impact, and a weak or completely wrong grip can lift it up.
      Things are worse with the horizontal component. Other muscles work (more precisely, several muscle groups of the forearm and hand), which, as a rule, are less trained. Hence the angular flaws. Plus, it is the horizontal that is more affected by the incorrect position of the index finger on the trigger.

      PS A brushless "Shurik" is, in fact, cool!

      hi
  10. +4
    12 May 2022 08: 01
    GSh-18 is an army weapon of the last chance, they don’t go on special operations / attack with it, flashlights, LCC, PBS are not supposed to be attached to it (although something was added in the modifications). They demanded safety from him - you can always wear cocked with a cartridge in the chamber, armor penetration - special cartridge 7N31 600 m / s - almost any body armor, low weight for constant wear - 475 empty. According to the TOR, everything is done. He even has some kind of self-cleaning when fired. Horizontal movement of the trigger on a TT, Colt 1911. You should not compare the GSH with a licked CZ-75. Now Lebedev has appeared - quite promising, ergonomic
    Thanks for the review
    1. +3
      12 May 2022 10: 34
      Г
      Sh-18 army weapon of the last chance

      Only the Ministry of Defense, unlike other security officials, is in no hurry to massively purchase the General Staff. Waiting for the price to drop?
      By the way, I could not find reliable information on the cost price.

      According to the TOR, everything is done.

      Undoubtedly. But it’s not just that the “finished” version appeared. And, most likely, it sought not only to reduce costs. And the result can be assessed only by practice.

      Horizontal movement of the trigger on a TT, Colt 1911.

      But their descent is smooth, without a “squeak”.

      You should not compare the GSH with a licked CZ-75.

      With CZ, the “sign” is only external, so I don’t even try to compare.

      Thanks for the review

      And thank you, Ilya! hi
    2. 0
      6 October 2022 19: 31
      For courier officers, it is most likely to fight off a group attack by an enemy in a car, so armor-piercing is a priority, to flash a dashboard or a door. Of course, if the bandits buy a "blue plymouth" then it will not help, but against everything else, it is punchy enough. And the high speed of the bullet reduces the lead when shooting at a moving target, or at a standing enemy from a car (here you need to aim behind)
  11. 0
    12 May 2022 11: 30
    it seems like there was a gsh like gene2 and with a trigger instead of a trigger and a sport option?
    apparently there is simply no one to bring to mind, PR, and make a resource sport an option? ostensibly to those that have sports zip not to buy?
  12. 0
    12 May 2022 16: 09
    Shot yesterday with a Glock 19, CZ ........ I really liked Chezet ...
  13. -1
    12 May 2022 17: 07
    it is noticeable that our prosecutor’s office does not work with its head, but with a pistol grip.
  14. +1
    13 May 2022 15: 09
    Interesting experience! And, what captivates is an attempt to objectively assess the use of the GSh-18. One thing is surprising - did not experienced pistol shooters use it already in metal when creating this argument? And the creators themselves had to "feel" their child with their own hands. I think that for a short barrel, one of the stages of the test for ease of use should be a test for the stability of the pistol in the hand while moistening its handle. After all, in a real situation, the gun must be stably held in the hand in any possible environmental conditions.
    1. 0
      17 May 2022 19: 27
      Hello Basileus! (Vasiliy?)

      really, when creating this argument, didn’t experienced pistol shooters already use it in metal?

      The creation of high-quality weapons is a long process (and with the intervention of "otherworldly forces" in the form of bureaucracy and interdepartmental butting, it is endless).
      However, there are already updated versions of the General Staff, there were couch reviews and lengthy arguments. But in order to form your own opinion about a weapon, it is still necessary, as you say, to really "use" it.

      what captivates, an attempt to objectively assess the use of GSh-18

      Thanks for your kind words!
      However, I do not particularly pretend to objectivity. These are just subjective sensations from a single experience and an attempt to analyze both the results and the sensations themselves.
      hi
  15. 0
    16 May 2022 12: 23
    Beretta still does such locking. PX4. Rumor has it that the recoil is very soft, which, together with the low-lying barrel, gives a good picture.
  16. +1
    14 June 2022 02: 13
    One question for pistols with a rotary barrel is not clear to me.
    Namely - the use of a silencer. After all, if you screw it onto the thread of the barrel, it will either self-unscrew, or vice versa - a dead puff up to ...
    Or, in this case, the silencers are attached to the frame, and the barrel simply "sticks" into the PBS ??

    And for the General Staff, and for what the author is talking about - lack of knowledge in mere trifles - very good. and och. shame!
    I personally ok. I like the interpretation of the rotary locking mechanism in the General Staff - simple, concise, reliable!
    And the design of the extractor is also very good. original - forced insertion of the extractor tooth when turning the barrel - this will squeeze out both dirt and ice from the groove of the sleeve - reliably.
    In this pistol, as in none, a bright, seething design idea is visible - and reasonableness in terms of manufacturability (stamp-welded casing, stamping of USM parts ...), and lightness (more than 100 grams lighter than Glock), and ergonomics ...
    It's a shame that Tula "zanehaila" a gun after the death of our beautiful Constructors!
    Actually, I was in TsKIB SOO 2 years ago. I was personally convinced that there, alas, the pistol theme died completely - not a single pistol was left (((...

    Thanks to the author for an interesting article!
  17. 0
    14 June 2022 18: 12
    I had to wait 15 years to post my impressions about the pistol, which was never accepted into service. By the way, I wonder why the author decided that the prosecutor's office needed such a pistol? Yes, and with armor-piercing. In general, it was planned precisely as an army pistol.
  18. +1
    19 June 2022 10: 20
    I consider Vasily Petrovich a brilliant gunsmith. If his pistol had been adopted for service, his childhood illnesses would have been eliminated .. Merci to the author for an interesting review. The pros feel
    1. 0
      26 June 2022 16: 52
      To the author merci

      And thank you, Alexey, for your kind words!
      hi
  19. +1
    21 June 2022 13: 36
    Thanks to the author for the review. I did not have a chance to shoot from the GSh and from the PLC. There was an opportunity to shoot from the PLC, but while I was going to the shooting range, it had already been broken for six months, I only held it in my hands. They said that the guides along which the slide frame slides were worn out, they are aluminum. Is this incomprehensible if it’s a jamb, if it’s a fenced trunk? I shot from PJ, shooting is quite accurate, the trigger is smooth, but the gun itself is ugly, heavy and there are many questions about the quality of both plastic and assembly. The trouble with our pistols is that they are all somehow unfinished, unloved and there is no customization practice, not only to bring beauty, but for example, change the trigger, bolt frame, sights.
    1. +1
      26 June 2022 16: 50
      Hello, Victor!
      They said that the guides along which the slide frame slides were worn out, they are aluminum.

      Well, not quite aluminum. There is a very tricky alloy, aviation duralumin is resting. And in order for the guides to undergo significant wear, it is necessary to strive for this for a long time and methodically! wink
      hi
      1. +1
        28 June 2022 18: 06
        Welcome hi Surely this is some kind of alloy, and not just aluminum or duralumin, but they told me so, for which I bought for that I sell. But it sits tightly in the hand and the sight is a comfortable three-point sight. And as for shooting, this is an ordinary shooting range; there are less than 50 shots, none of the pistols shoots. But it is unlikely that athletes would shoot a lot from this pistol; they have their own glocks, chz, tonfolio and ridges, so mostly amateurs and interested.
  20. +1
    24 June 2022 01: 04
    Michael, what cartridge did you shoot with? GSh-18 chambered for 7N31 is made (or vice versa).
    1. 0
      26 June 2022 16: 46
      what kind of cartridge did you shoot?

      I won't say exactly. I just got three dozen. Nearby were observed empty cartons from civilian cartridges manufactured in Tula and Barnaul. They differ slightly in the color of the sleeve, but somehow I did not focus on this.
      hi
      1. +1
        26 June 2022 17: 05
        Quote: OldMichael
        I won't say exactly. I just got three dozen. Nearby were observed empty cartons from civilian cartridges manufactured in Tula and Barnaul. They differ slightly in the color of the sleeve, but somehow I did not focus on this.

        This is actually very important. GSh-18 can shoot any 9x19, but its design is made for 7N31 with its light high-velocity bullet. More precisely, the 7N31 cartridge is made for a very light (the lightest in size and 9x19) pistol GSh-18. With the weight of the bullet and, accordingly, the decrease in its speed, the comfort of the GSh-18 stalk is deteriorating.
        1. 0
          26 June 2022 17: 12
          With the weight of the bullet and, accordingly, the decrease in its speed, the comfort of the GSh-18 stalk is deteriorating.

          Theoretically, sure!
          But in practice, it has not yet been possible to compare.
  21. 0
    26 June 2022 07: 16
    Thanks to the author for the article, I read it with pleasure and all the comments. I can envy all the white envy that communicated with the new weapon. I didn't have that opportunity. The first pistol that I received in the service was a TT of 38... :) Yes, that's right! There were still few PMs back then. The TT is not a bad pistol, although my father said that in the war he immediately changed it to a revolver. But the PM, which I later received, I immediately did not like. I see wry smiles... But not my gun! I didn't love him, and he didn't love me. But Walter had to shoot from the line ... In the dashing 90s, there were many different weapons. This one sat like a sewn in hand. And for hidden carry, I liked the PPK the most. Although...other times...other priorities.
  22. 0
    1 July 2022 15: 30
    Personally, there is potential.
    Execution-rare shit.
    Everything is burred, the lining is slippery, the store was made with an ax. Sharp edges everywhere.
    My opinion is that they hacked a magnificent pistol with clumsy execution.
    And not only him, the fifth column is working be healthy.
  23. 0
    20 August 2022 10: 31
    About the fact that you can’t charge the store, it was a misfortune, let’s say, pre-series and first-series samples ... Then everything is already charging (there are enough videos in the u-tube, how a person loads 18 cartridges with his hands on the camera), but the bike remains.
  24. 0
    13 December 2022 20: 35
    As long as you reload, you will die. Finish the descent.
  25. 0
    23 May 2023 19: 09
    The system of pre-cocking and protection taken from Glock is completely superfluous .. It would be enough for a trigger like Makarov with a self-cocking, a safe trigger release and a fuse .. And it turned out to be tricky, difficult, unreliable and the quality of the descent causes criticism. All the same, they will be dragged along the NSD with an unsent cartridge.