Secret help: Phoenix Ghost loitering ammunition for Ukraine

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Working with the Switchblade 300 complex. Probably, the application of the new Phoenix Ghost will be similar

The United States announced the preparation of another package of military-technical assistance for Ukraine. It includes artillery systems, vehicles, ammunition, etc. with a total cost of $ 800 million. Basically, we are talking about fairly old products, but there is also a curious novelty - Phoenix Ghost loitering ammunition. This product is first mentioned in public statements and open materials.

Unmanned Aid


The new aid package was approved on 21 April. It provides for the transfer of Phoenix Ghost tactical unmanned aerial vehicles in the amount of "more than 121 pieces." Curiously, this is the only new sample in the latest package. All other products will be taken from warehouses and from units of the US Army.



War Department spokesman John Kirby spoke about the new UAV and announced some details. In particular, he noted that the project was developed taking into account Ukrainian requirements. At the same time, the appearance of the product and the main characteristics are not disclosed for reasons of secrecy. It is assumed that such information may threaten the effective use of "Phoenix-Ghosts" by the Ukrainian army.

Later that day, J. Kirby named the company that developed the promising product and revealed some other details. At the same time, the organization that created the project has not yet commented on such messages.


Lightweight Switchblade 300 in flight configuration

Armament and ammunition included in the new package will be sent to Ukraine in the near future. The United States has already established channels for the supply of weapons, and the first batches can reach the recipient in the coming days. Which of these batches the Phoenix Ghosts will end up in is unknown. However, it can be expected that over the next days or weeks such weapon gets to the forefront.

According to known data


As reported, the development of the future Phoenix Ghost project was commissioned by the US Air Force and in accordance with their requirements. The contractor was the Californian company AEVEX Aerospace. This organization specializes in electronic equipment for aviation and repeatedly carried out orders from the Pentagon. At the same time, she has not previously been involved in the development of UAVs or similar systems.

It is not known when the work began. The novelty of the subject matter and the level of complexity suggests that AEVEX has been designing the drone since 2019-20. Thanks to this, development has been completed by now, tests have been carried out and production has been prepared. Whether the Air Force plans to order such UAVs is unknown.

According to J. Kirby, not so long ago it turned out that the loitering ammunition from AEVEX meets the needs and requirements of the Ukrainian army. In this regard, the product was recommended to the series for inclusion in the next assistance package. At the same time, he was given a new name, probably also taking into account the wishes of the recipient.

Secret help: Phoenix Ghost loitering ammunition for Ukraine

"Heavy" Switchblade 600

Technical secrets


The design of the promising Phoenix Ghost remains unknown. However, it is reported that in terms of combat capabilities, it is similar to AeroVironment's Switchblade series loitering ammunition, although there are some differences. Which of the two Switchblades the Ghost was compared to is unknown. The American side is in no hurry to disclose such information out of fear for the Ukrainian allies.

Apparently, the new Phoenix Ghost is a compact foldable UAV, suitable for carrying by crew or transportation by any means of transport. It should be equipped with an electric propulsion system, optoelectronic means for monitoring and searching for targets. In addition, a warhead with a high-explosive fragmentation or cumulative fragmentation charge is required. Takeoff can be carried out using a compact launcher, and landing is not provided.

The dimensions and weights of the Phoenix Ghost are unknown, and comparison with the Switchblades does not accurately determine them. So, Switchblade 300 has a length and wingspan of about 600 mm and a weight of less than 3 kg. The second member of the family, Switchblade 600, is several times larger and weighs 23 kg.

Such a difference in size and weight allows you to get a significant range of flight and combat characteristics. So, "Switchblade-300" is able to fly only 10 minutes and work at a distance of up to 10 km from the operator. The product "600" flight duration is twice as high, and the range reaches 40 km. A light UAV delivers a warhead weighing several hundred grams to the target, while an analog of the FGM-148 ATGM warhead was placed on a larger one.


Both Switchblade and, apparently, Phoenix Ghost are equipped with optical means to search for ground targets and then aim at them. The device must be controlled by the operator via radio channel in the presence of some automated functions.

Which of the two Switchblade looks more like a new American UAV is unknown. Accordingly, it is not clear what its tactical and technical characteristics may be. However, the mention of AeroVironment products shows the fundamental possibility of creating loitering ammunition with different levels of performance and capabilities.

New threat


In general, loitering ammunition, such as the already well-known Switchblade 300/600 or the new Phoenix Ghost, is a fairly convenient and flexible tool for searching and destroying ground targets. Accordingly, they pose a certain danger to the enemy. The appearance of such weapons in the Ukrainian army cannot be ignored - it must be taken into account and the necessary measures taken.

The appearance in Ukraine of light and, probably, massive loitering ammunition makes special demands on the work of our air defense and other means of protection. At the same time, the fight against such a threat is not fundamentally different from the interception of other light UAVs. Such targets can be detected by radar and optoelectronic means, as well as electronic intelligence systems. Electronic warfare systems can suppress control channels, disrupting an attack, and small-caliber artillery is the most effective means of destruction.


However, the fight against loitering ammunition has its own specifics. Like other percussion means, they require a quick and clear response. An error or miss will lead to a breakthrough of the defense and the defeat of the protected object. In the case of the Phoenix Ghost, this problem may be exacerbated by the fact that its exact characteristics and other features are still unknown and have yet to be determined.

However, the threat of the "Phoenix-Ghost" should not be overestimated either. The Ukrainian army is already trying to use other types of loitering ammunition and has not succeeded in this. The low level of training, the lack of necessary experience, the work of our air defense and other factors affect. In addition, some of these weapons could be destroyed at the stage of delivery to the line of contact - along with warehouses or vehicles. Probably soon there will be reports of captured UAVs.

Sudden help


Loitering ammunition has already demonstrated its potential as a flexible and convenient weapon for detecting and destroying ground targets. At the same time, the correct organization of defense allows you to neutralize all the advantages of such weapons - incl. the latest American Phoenix Ghost. Thus, even hiding characteristics and capabilities will not help the Ukrainian side to effectively use the new product.

However, the most interesting in the current situation is the fact that the United States suddenly revealed a previously unknown development, moreover, already ready for a series and for deliveries. While this is the first such "surprise", but it is impossible to say with certainty that it will be the last. The United States plans to continue sending weapons and equipment to Ukraine - and, as it turned out, they are ready to provide even the newest and most unknown samples.
118 comments
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  1. -1
    April 25 2022 04: 40
    It would be necessary for the Turks to make a large order for UAVs, to interrupt, so to speak, the bet. And the Chinese too
    1. +16
      April 25 2022 07: 11
      Here. This is what reasonable people have been writing about in all military forums since the 2000s. UAVs are already real, but such UAVs will soon be chasing each individual soldier in swarms, as they are now behind armored vehicles. Maybe at least the experience of the SVO will give impetus to the urgent development of battlefield UAVs. This switch blade will be more dangerous than 18 artillery systems and the rest of the old weapons.
      1. dSK
        +4
        April 25 2022 16: 02
        Chasing an individual soldier is still too expensive even for the States.
        Today at 2 o'clock in the morning, in Bryansk, two cottons and two tanks for 3000 and 10000 tons of solarium burned down at oil depots.
        These were not helicopters, as in Belgorod ...
        1. +5
          April 25 2022 19: 58
          Most likely they were used. There, the DRG is calm from the border of Ukraine, as there is nothing to do, it can approach Bryansk through the forests and attract them. Launch this thing from the city for 20-30 kilometers, hit it and calmly go home. Not for nothing that the British appeared there in Ukraine, specialists in sabotage appeared. Perhaps they are the performers in the group.
          1. +2
            April 25 2022 20: 34
            There are air defense units near Bryansk, but these peppers launched the unit and carried it out at low altitude over the Desna to the city, and there they jumped and attacked a pre-selected target. The air defense installation operator, if he notices, then at the last moment, if he notices at all.
          2. 0
            April 26 2022 16: 10
            I am sure of that.
    2. 0
      April 25 2022 23: 10
      beat, so to speak, the bet. And the Chinese too

      a good idea, especially with the weak air defense of Ukraine.
  2. -19
    April 25 2022 05: 13
    At the same time, the correct organization of defense allows you to neutralize all the advantages
    And a short range will make it easier to identify the launch sites and the location of the operator. The benefit of air supremacy is ours.
    1. -8
      April 25 2022 08: 50
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      a short range will make it easier to identify the launch site and the location of the operator.

      A radio control channel will allow you to find the location of the operator. You don't disguise yourself here.
    2. +4
      April 25 2022 13: 00
      Let air supremacy be ours.
      they do not fly further than the Kharkiv and Donetsk-Lugansk regions. "Domination"
      1. +1
        April 25 2022 14: 52
        Quote from kolenval
        they do not fly further than the Kharkiv and Donetsk-Lugansk regions. "Domination"
        Where the battles fly there, and NOBODY interferes with them.
        1. +5
          April 25 2022 15: 27
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote from kolenval
          they do not fly further than the Kharkiv and Donetsk-Lugansk regions. "Domination"
          Where the battles fly there, and NOBODY interferes with them.


          Many hundreds of MANPADS are precisely what interfere.
          Su-34 losses in the first week alone were 4 or 5 pieces.
          Su-30 - also about the same.
          Rooks were shot down 6 pcs.
          Not counting a couple dozen helicopters.
          Do not interfere?
          That is why the Su-34 sorties in the daytime have been practically stopped.
          They interfere, and how they interfere.
          Therefore, the almighty cast iron, great and terrible, could only be scattered in Syria. There Hephaestus gave such an opportunity.
          And here, with the presence of many hundreds of MANPADS, as well as the still preserved air defense of Ukraine, Hephaestus turned into a pumpkin. And the almighty but very cheap cast iron also turned into a pumpkin. For when one flight is one lost plane, they choose "do not fly there!"
          1. -3
            April 25 2022 16: 33
            They interfere, and how they interfere.
            here is the shooting down in Kharkov by cannon artillery of an aircraft flying to bomb a TV tower, got on video +1 pilot captured
            1. -3
              April 25 2022 16: 41
              Quote from kolenval
              They interfere, and how they interfere.
              here is the shooting down in Kharkov by cannon artillery of an aircraft flying to bomb a TV tower, got on video +1 pilot captured


              And today it looks like another Su-34 ...
              1. -1
                April 25 2022 23: 16
                And today it looks like another Su-34 ...
                meanwhile, Ukrainian aviation damaged the bridge from the LPR to Kupyansk .. it’s better not to read the news
          2. +1
            April 25 2022 17: 46
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Su-34 losses in the first week alone were 4 or 5 pieces.

            And you do not interfere with the current situation for the first week.
            Quote: SovAr238A
            For when one flight is one lost plane, they choose "do not fly there!"
            And tell this tale to Zelensky as a consolation.
          3. +4
            April 25 2022 18: 03
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Many hundreds of MANPADS are precisely what interfere.

            By the way, where are they finishing off MANPADS? 4,5-5 km.
            Quote: SovAr238A
            And here, with the presence of many hundreds of MANPADS, as well as the still preserved air defense of Ukraine, Hephaestus turned into a pumpkin.
            Nonsense about air defense, not in the frontline zone. And "Hephaestus" was created for this purpose to bomb from 6-7 km. So that.
          4. 0
            April 27 2022 09: 16
            Su-34 for the first week, only 1 in the Chernihiv region. In total, 3 were lost according to my calculations. Losses are not from MANPADS. And higher-altitude installations such as Buka. Su-30 is also not from MANPADS. Su-25 is possible because they fly at low altitudes like helicopters.
            Aviation works practically day and night. It depends on the task, the objects and the physiology of the enemy as a person (at night, vigilance is dulled after a busy day, and you even want to sleep).
    3. +3
      April 25 2022 13: 06
      Yes, but in practice, none of this was found. And air supremacy does not solve this problem due to the mobility of such drones and large database areas.
      1. 0
        April 25 2022 14: 54
        Quote: Vadim237
        Yes, but in practice, none of this was found. And air supremacy does not solve this problem due to the mobility of such drones and large database areas.
        The number of "destroyed command posts" also includes UAV command posts.
        1. +4
          April 25 2022 15: 34
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote: Vadim237
          Yes, but in practice, none of this was found. And air supremacy does not solve this problem due to the mobility of such drones and large database areas.
          The number of "destroyed command posts" also includes UAV command posts.


          You clearly do not understand the difference between a Bayraktar-type UAV and loitering ammunition such as Harop, Harpy, Mini-Harpy, or the same Switchblade.
          1. -1
            April 25 2022 17: 38
            Quote: SovAr238A
            You clearly do not understand the difference between a Bayraktar-type UAV and loitering ammunition such as Harop, Harpy, Mini-Harpy, or the same Switchblade.

            From what? I just understand that these drones are not used by an individual fighter on their own, but under the command of a company level at least. Here is the command post for you, here is the defeat of the drone command post.
        2. +5
          April 25 2022 16: 44
          The control point of such drones is located directly at the fighter in the form of an antenna unit and a tablet that carries it and prepares it for launch.
          1. 0
            April 25 2022 17: 39
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            these drones are not used by an individual fighter on their own, under the command of a company level at least. Here is the command post for you, here is the defeat of the drone command post.
    4. 0
      April 26 2022 00: 46
      The benefit of air supremacy is ours.

      Superiority?...Yes. Ah, on account
      domination - you hurried ...
      1. +1
        April 26 2022 04: 58
        Quote: VyacheSeymour
        Superiority?...Yes. Ah, on account
        domination - you are in a hurry ..

        Air supremacy - decisive superiority aviation of one of the warring parties in airspace in the theater of operations.
        1. 0
          April 26 2022 08: 13
          Air supremacy is the decisive air superiority of one of the belligerents in the airspace in the theater of operations.

          And what does it mean for you? In long-range missile strikes from a zone beyond the reach of air defense? Or have they already landed everything flying near the enemy, and their soldiers stopped looking at the sky with apprehension?
          1. 0
            April 26 2022 08: 17
            Quote: VyacheSeymour
            Or have they already landed everything flying near the enemy, and their soldiers stopped looking at the sky with apprehension?
            Exactly! On the fingers of two hands, you can count the air raids of the Armed Forces of Ukraine FOR THE ALL time of the operation. But on the contrary, the hair must be connected. laughing
            1. 0
              April 26 2022 08: 54
              Exactly! On the fingers of two hands, you can count the air raids of the Armed Forces of Ukraine FOR THE ALL time of the operation. But on the contrary, the hair must be connected.

              "Blessed is he who believes ..." God forbid that it be according to you, and not from the realm of wishes ...
  3. +2
    April 25 2022 05: 21
    At the same time, the correct organization of defense allows you to neutralize all the advantages of such weapons - incl. the latest American Phoenix Ghost.

    So are we on the defensive or on the offensive?
    1. -5
      April 25 2022 06: 56
      You're not good at logic, sir! Air defense troops are known, but nothing is known about the advancing air defense troops!
      1. 0
        April 25 2022 07: 14
        Military air defense unfamiliar words?)
        1. +7
          April 25 2022 07: 26
          Very familiar. The total length of service is 27 years, of which 23 are calendar years. Then, well, then you yourself know what they did with air defense with aviation, and indeed with the aircraft.
          As an example, helicopters over Belgorod. Air defense, well, yes, the example of Belgorod is indicative, electronic warfare, so not a single bayraktar was landed. As an air defense specialist, I must say that targets such as bayraktar are ideal for destruction, but they spoiled a lot of blood.
          So what did you think of knocking down?
          1. -3
            April 25 2022 07: 38
            It is strange that with your length of service you forget that little goes according to plan and there are always weak points. It was found and worked. If there are no errors, then you are dead. EW? Firstly, who told you that this did not happen, and secondly, what does it mean to be imprisoned? Control override? How often has this happened in the world? When communication is lost, modern drones go into return mode. Are you not satisfied with the tori?
            1. +5
              April 25 2022 07: 50
              TOR at the forefront? It's congenial
              1. -3
                April 25 2022 07: 59
                What is the leading one? You are either talking about Belgorod or talking about Turkish rumblers. How did the cutting edge come out here? Yes, and even if he got out. Where did you assign the place to the tors of tank divisions? Km for 100 from the main forces?
                1. +4
                  April 25 2022 08: 08
                  Do not distort the conversation about loitering ammunition, and to ours that our air defense will cope with them, he gave an example with larger targets.
                  1. -2
                    April 25 2022 08: 13
                    I'm not distorting. Just be more specific then. For these, something of a short-range action is visible.
            2. +9
              April 25 2022 09: 55
              Are you not satisfied with the tori?

              1. There are not so many "Thors": they cannot cover everything and everyone
              2. The Tor air defense missile is several times more expensive than small kamikaze drones such as Switchblade or Lancet
              3. A swarm of cheap kamikaze drones, entering from different directions, is guaranteed to take out the expensive Tor air defense system
              1. -2
                April 25 2022 10: 05
                In short, we cut down to hell with air defense) there is no use in it)
                1. +4
                  April 25 2022 16: 03
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  In short, we cut down to hell with air defense) there is no use in it)


                  All this military air defense and its structure was invented 50-60 years ago.

                  The world has changed since then.
                  The concept and the Loitering Ammunition System actually appeared only 15 years ago. And it was sharpened specifically for the destruction of military air defense equipment. All those Harpies and Haropes.
                  Learn their methods of application.
                  From them now for military air defense - there really is no protection, except ...
                  Shutdown of the air defense itself.
                  But this was also finalized, they began to equip the seeker not only with radar, but also with optical channels - and therefore they can select targets.
                  It started 10 years ago.

                  And now the development of technology has gone so that most loitering ammunition fits 2-3 pieces in one backpack.
            3. +1
              April 25 2022 15: 37
              Quote: carstorm 11
              It is strange that with your length of service you forget that little goes according to plan and there are always weak points. It was found and worked. If there are no errors, then you are dead. EW? Firstly, who told you that this did not happen, and secondly, what does it mean to be imprisoned? Control override? How often has this happened in the world? When communication is lost, modern drones go into return mode. Are you not satisfied with the tori?


              There are enough videos from bayraktar on the network, where he takes a gorgeous picture at a distance of over 50 km ...
              What will you shoot at such a distance?
              And most importantly - how will you detect such a small target at such a distance?
              given that the bayraktar removes the battlefield, and the S-300/400 is not placed on the battlefield.
              That is, there will be 300 kilometers from the S-400/100 radar to the battlefield, and at least 150 kilometers to the bayraktar itself. Can you find and destroy it?
              I’m sure not.
              1. +2
                April 25 2022 15: 44
                There are enough videos from bayraktar on the network, where he takes a gorgeous picture at a distance of over 50 km ...

                This goes beyond the capabilities of Canadian optoelectronic units (the number in the name of which is the reconnaissance range in km).
                1. -1
                  April 25 2022 16: 14
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  There are enough videos from bayraktar on the network, where he takes a gorgeous picture at a distance of over 50 km ...

                  This goes beyond the capabilities of Canadian optoelectronic units (the number in the name of which is the reconnaissance range in km).


                  The shelling of the Kherson airport, filmed from a bayraktar at a distance of 48 km



                  The distance is 48 kilometers on the map.
                  [Center]
                  1. +3
                    April 25 2022 17: 09
                    I took you seriously.
                    The MX-15i / D (which is installed on Bayraktary) has a rangefinder with a measurement limit of 20 km.
                    Aselsan's CATS module has a rangefinder limit of 30 km.
                    1. -4
                      April 25 2022 22: 11
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      I took you seriously.
                      The MX-15i / D (which is installed on Bayraktary) has a rangefinder with a measurement limit of 20 km.
                      Aselsan's CATS module has a rangefinder limit of 30 km.


                      Did you see the video itself?
                      find it on the internet
                      1. 0
                        April 26 2022 09: 24
                        I found the video itself as soon as you sent this picture. AND? Does it change anything?
                    2. 0
                      April 26 2022 11: 22
                      The MX-15i / D (which is installed on Bayraktary) has a rangefinder with a measurement limit of 20 km.

                      The operating range of a laser rangefinder depends on the laser power and is not connected by an optical system, which allows, under favorable weather conditions, to conduct reconnaissance in the optical and IR range at a distance of 50 km. The facts in the photographs from "Bayraktar" are presented.
                      1. +2
                        April 26 2022 11: 38
                        The laser power is selected from the requirements for real distances of using the apparatus for its intended purpose. On the same MX-20, the laser is already shining for 50 km, but there the optics are different.
                        The fact that you look at the moon on a clear night with your eyes and see spots on it does not mean that you are reconnaissance of the moon from a distance of 380 thousand km.
                        The fact that people are delighted with the physics of the passage of SW IR waves through the atmosphere, this is the case.
                        You better tell me how you measure the distance with a laser with a range of 50 km at a distance of 20 km. Inertial frame of reference? ))
                      2. +1
                        April 27 2022 12: 29
                        For those who are "in the tank", I explain how it works without the need for a 50 km LD. Visual reconnaissance of the target is enough. Look from "Bayraktar" from a distance of 48 km to the Chernobaevka airfield. You observe the accumulation of equipment at the parking lot of aircraft in front of the terminal of the airport terminal. You open the map, determine the coordinates on the map where the equipment has accumulated. You transmit the coordinates of the MLRS, which covers the place of accumulation. It is not necessary for the MLRS to determine the coordinates of individual pieces of equipment, the MLRS works by area.
                      3. +1
                        April 27 2022 12: 45
                        In the tank (in a poor understanding of this expression) so far only you. Because they completely misunderstood what I wrote here:
                        You better tell me how you measure the distance with a laser with a range of 50 km at a distance of 20 km.

                        The range of the rangefinder at Bayraktar is 20 km.
                        On the video of the shelling of the airfield, the interface SHOWS THE MEASURED IN REAL TIME range of 48 km.
                        In the photo above, a friend attached a screenshot and pointed to the measured range with an arrow.
                        So tell me how this is possible with a 20 km range finder ... get a figure of 48 km.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
              2. 0
                April 25 2022 15: 46
                How is aviation taken into account in your air defense? Well, just as one of the components?
                1. 0
                  April 25 2022 16: 04
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  How is aviation taken into account in your air defense? Well, just as one of the components?


                  Aviation where the enemy's air defense is operating?
                  Something over the past month I somehow don’t hear about combat missions of front-line aviation ....
                  Maybe after the losses of February / March - they simply stopped raising it into the sky?
                  1. +2
                    April 25 2022 16: 46
                    SU 25, SU 34, SU 30 and SU 35 take off every day.
                  2. -1
                    April 25 2022 16: 46
                    Well, of course. Loss then half the park? Or is it all already?) And I'm talking about air defense aircraft in the area. The presence of MANPADS does not cancel the fact of patrolling given areas. And 50 and 100, which were also transferred there (this is not for me, as Israel claims) complexes. Somehow I strongly doubt that in the same Kharkov region, 1 tank and 20 armies move without He's eyes. Of course, you can argue back and about 50 km from the tarahelka and so on. But they are moving forward. Without much difficulty with the UAV. The latter 404s are apparently needed not to stop the advancing troops, but to throw them on any media game.
        2. -1
          April 25 2022 07: 49
          Sir! Again, military air defense is defense, and comrade YOUR speaks of an offensive, reread his speech. He has a claim specifically to defense,
          Quote: carstorm 11
          So are we on the defensive or on the offensive?

          According to his concepts, it is obvious that if air defense is definitely defense. Apparently he does not suspect that air defense is always air defense.
          1. +1
            April 25 2022 07: 54
            As you put it, comrade's speech YOUR is that the article says that these ammunition must be protected by the correct organization of defense, but what about on the offensive when the armor goes forward. It's you, sorry, dregs spun about air defense which .... well, and so on.
            1. -4
              April 25 2022 08: 18
              You either do not understand what you are writing about, or you deliberately distort. The dispute is about the organization of the defense of specific objects from specific UAVs. And you lumped it all together. Where did you serve in the army (if any)? Also on the couch?
          2. 0
            April 25 2022 08: 03
            Yes, from the fig?? Do all missiles, UAVs, helicopters and planes disappear during an offensive? Thor was created to cover the first echelon at medium distances. To move along with the columns. Shilka, tunkus, short-range arrows for what were they created?
      2. 0
        April 27 2022 09: 31
        There are air defense forces of the ground forces, so they must accompany the actions of the ground forces on marches and in the conduct of hostilities. For light UAVs, there is a problem of identifying friend or foe. To do this, it is necessary to have reliable communication channels and the interaction of subdivisions for cover from UAVs and enemy aircraft has been developed. There are too many different units of ours operating in Ukraine - paratroopers, the Russian Guard, ground forces, parts of the DPR and LPR. So in any case, there are problems and will be in the future, while the interaction is being adjusted.
    2. -4
      April 25 2022 07: 13
      Are you going to attack around the clock?
      1. +3
        April 25 2022 07: 15
        It is interesting how to avoid these ammunition during the offensive, if, according to the author, this is possible only in deep defense.
        1. +1
          April 25 2022 11: 18
          Quote: YOUR
          It is interesting how to avoid these ammunition during the offensive, if, according to the author, this is possible only in deep defense.

          You have been written several times - that even when air defense rides in a column of tanks / vehicles during an offensive, it is still on the defensive.Defends the advancing troops ....
          About Shilka and others (including Maksimovsky quads) - I hope you heard?
          1. +2
            April 25 2022 11: 22
            A little not so. On the march, air defense units move forward and cover the column on the march. When passing a certain section, the battery is removed and moves further. While she is on the move, the main work is done by others.
            But that is not the question.
            Tanks went on the offensive, attack. In this case, how do you propose to defend yourself against loitering ammunition?
            Yes, and on the march of the DRG, they attack from a distance of ten kilometers and no air defense will intercept.
        2. 0
          April 27 2022 09: 54
          Competent actions: dispersal, maneuver, camouflage, observation of the air situation and the organization of countermeasures - for television systems, for example - laser countermeasures - darkens the optics and stops target acquisition or microwave - the guidance head matrix is ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXblit. But this is if the target is detected at the time and not a second before the strike. The use of electronic warfare means is very effective. Stops the flight of the UAV, makes it useless to control it. There is another way - smoke screens are very effective for devices that independently enter the zone and search. Smoke makes identification difficult or impossible. Time passes and the device either falls (the flight time is limited, there is no return to the operator, it may self-destruct) or it manages to detect the air defense attached to our units and destroy it.
          1. +1
            April 27 2022 15: 31
            Cool theory, if only it could be combined with practice
            1. 0
              April 29 2022 19: 22
              Already - smokes are used, camouflage (capes) and tricks (false targets) are used. Electronic warfare equipment, where they are really used, shows effectiveness. It's just that they are not enough with such a stretch of the fronts, and some do not shine at all for a distant potential enemy.
              In general, the task now is to knock out equipment and artillery (direct destruction, destruction of ammunition and fuel depots) and take care of your soldiers.
              Actions to destroy the enemy in populated areas are being finalized.
  4. -5
    April 25 2022 05: 33
    Phoenix Ghost are equipped with optical means to search for ground targets and subsequent aiming at them

    If so, then you can counteract with a laser on the optics.
    1. -2
      April 25 2022 10: 10
      optical laser.
      Even low-power concert special effects lasers burn out cameras at once, and by increasing the power by a factor of three, you can blind the drone lightly.
      1. +3
        April 25 2022 15: 47
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        optical laser.
        Even low-power concert special effects lasers burn out cameras at once, and by increasing the power by a factor of three, you can blind the drone lightly.


        It remains only to place a 5-kilometer laser installation on the back of a soldier, as well as an ultra-high-precision mm-range radar and servos for pointing lasers at moving targets.
        How it looks in terms of dimensions in the modern world - you can still see in this photo.
        1. 0
          April 25 2022 19: 02
          This is for the physical destruction of aircraft. Even a pointer will burn the camera.
          1. 0
            April 27 2022 10: 30
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            This is for the physical destruction of aircraft. Even a pointer will burn the camera.

            No.
            What is for physical destruction - installed on Ponce. And tested on it. And it is 5 times bigger.
            what is in the photo is mounted on a Burke-class destroyer and only for blinding.
        2. +1
          April 27 2022 10: 14
          We indulged in a Chinese laser pointer, I don’t remember the wattage. We tried it on a Chinese Phantom (UAV).
          How far will it reach, how will the beam
          look on the screen (tablet and control was carried out through it)
          They decided to work with a pointer somewhere at the initial location of the drone at an initial height of 100 meters, though they had to play with it and the drone itself, the pointer was attached additionally to artillery binoculars for relatively accurate pointing, after the beam hit the camera optics, it darkened in 5 seconds and observation through it became not possible at all. In short, the optics were burned. Further, the experiment was no longer carried out at a distance. But this is a household level and a pointer bought in a store was once used.
          And the camera is a pity, very good resolution. Now I wouldn't let it be ruined. Its cost on the drone turned out to be at the cost of the drone itself at 1500 euros, about 450 euros plus the cost of shipping.
  5. +9
    April 25 2022 05: 52
    By our indecisiveness and underestimation of the enemy, we ourselves drag out the conflict. The big mistake of the political leadership and the Defense Ministry is that we talk about the intended goals, but do nothing ourselves. As a result of such inconsistency, another sabotage in Bryansk, where strikes were made on decision-making centers, on bridges and railway junctions. Maybe someone thinks that the loud statements of our Defense Ministry scared someone in NATO, then they are deeply mistaken .. The war is already on our territory and, according to the constitution, the Supreme Commander is obliged to protect the civilian population by all available means. And the longer we play humanism and make half-hearted decisions, the more victims there will be among our soldiers and civilians.
    1. -2
      April 25 2022 07: 20
      For Bryansk, wait for an explanation. I don't believe in coincidence either, but things happen. The media war that Vedpt 404 suggests such actions. Instead of real hostilities, needle pokes in border towns to intimidate the civilian population. What does such an action give to stop our advancing troops? Nothing. But the picture is it. Waste of movie resources. The Defense Ministry could not work in Kyiv for the last few days. The guests were there.
      1. -2
        April 25 2022 07: 32
        Quote: carstorm 11
        In Bryansk, wait for an explanation. I don't believe in coincidence either, but things happen. The media war that Vedpt 404 suggests such actions. Instead of real hostilities, needle pokes in border towns to intimidate the civilian population. What does such an action give to stop our advancing troops?

        And what do Russian strikes on Ukrainian oil depots give?
        1. -1
          April 25 2022 07: 44
          Well, they've arrived. Supply reduction. Sorry, but the intensity with which ours and 404 work does not even make sense to compare. It's not just a different level of influence. These are different planets. I can even say a seditious thing. I'm even pleased that we miss such pokes. This gives a good leeway for change.
          1. +3
            April 25 2022 08: 18
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Well arrived

            Here it is ...You don't understand... it's different..

            That is, the destruction of the two largest oil depots and fuel storage facilities (Belgorod and Bryansk) located in close proximity to the theater of operations will not affect the logistics of the Russian army in any way, unlike similar events on the Ukrainian side.
            ..logical...
            Quote: carstorm 11
            I'm even pleased that we miss such pokes.

            They don’t argue about tastes .. besides, apparently there is reason to believe that the number of such pokes will only grow. And not only at oil depots. You will definitely be satisfied
            1. 0
              April 25 2022 08: 37
              Of course it will. But the actions of IEDs are minimal. They cannot influence refineries. Can't deliver. Moreover, their means of destruction cannot inflict maximum damage. In all respects, these are media actions. And it's not my taste. Just passing through Belgorod, it dawned on me that a helicopter could pass at a minimum height. Mistakes give you room to grow. By correcting them, you grow. Get stronger. Weaknesses are getting stronger. Well, they don't let you rest in peace.
              1. -2
                April 25 2022 08: 40
                Quote: carstorm 11
                Just passing through Belgorod, it dawned on me that a helicopter could pass at a minimum height. Mistakes give you room to grow.

                I see ... Bryansk also developed and smashed into the trash. Strengthened weaknesses in general. What is left for resting on our laurels .. Rostov?
                1. 0
                  April 25 2022 08: 57
                  First, stop lying. They smashed Bryansk into the trash ... You don't have laws? Secondly, first wait for a report about what happened there. Everyone has weak points. Were and will be.
                  1. -1
                    April 25 2022 09: 06
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    You don't have laws?

                    What are these? Or is it not the Bryansk tank farm that is on fire right now, as VO kindly informed us about?

                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    wait for the report

                    And why wait there. I already know. Fire with detonation. Like on a cruiser
                    By the way. What are you talking about helicopters and Belgorod? Was there an official report on the reasons and weaknesses? Or is the law not written for you?
                    1. 0
                      April 25 2022 09: 20
                      They smashed Bryansk, they smashed the city of Bryansk. This is a lie. The oil depot is on fire. Yes. Is it the whole city? The law on fakes and us is valid. You do not write me this game in a personal. Well, don't wait. Am I disturbing you? Bring a blizzard of your speculation. Report on helicopters? Do you have anything else to report? About changes in air defense contours in areas with a map? You've been told everything you need to know. There was a breakthrough at low altitude and an impact on the city. To me? What am I doing here? I, unlike you, do not rush to conclusions. I'm waiting for the off-version.
                      1. -2
                        April 25 2022 09: 24
                        Quote: carstorm 11
                        They smashed Bryansk, they smashed the city of Bryansk

                        )))
                        Quote: carstorm 11
                        The law on fakes and us you acts

                        Give you a complaint book?)
                      2. 0
                        April 25 2022 09: 35
                        Everything is clear to you. Let's end this conversation.
    2. 0
      April 29 2022 20: 49
      There are no decision-making centers in Ukraine, there are only voice people - repeaters in uniform. And it’s probably not worth starting the 3rd World War. There are other solutions.
  6. +2
    April 25 2022 06: 37
    Something the use of our loitering ammunition in Ukraine is not shown. And in Syria they showed - very effective, they were used to hunt for militant commanders.
    1. +3
      April 25 2022 08: 25
      They showed it a couple of times and then the MTR was used. There is no wide application in the troops.
    2. 0
      April 29 2022 21: 01
      Apply in Kharkov. They knock out the tech. But these scoundrels hide it in different shelters. And the flight time of such ammunition is very limited, as is the range. Yes, and there are not many of them yet, because only recently they were tested and accepted (type 1 - Kalashnikov, it seems) on
      armament. You have to wait until they stamp it. There, in addition to ammunition and a monitoring and control panel (tablet). Though like and self-search is. Only here is the problem - their equipment and ours are of the same type, you can destroy your own in the self-search mode. And yet - the ammunition does not return back to the operator, either the target or self-detonation. That is, they, the operators, need good training.
  7. +3
    April 25 2022 06: 42
    Phoenix Ghost has a dual purpose: it can be used purely for reconnaissance, but its main purpose is shock.
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Ghos
    1. 0
      April 25 2022 15: 30
      how is this just intelligence? if the landing is not provided?
      1. +1
        April 25 2022 16: 49
        Haven't heard of the Phoenix Ghost, but the Switchblade is returnable and can be used for reconnaissance and targeting.
  8. -9
    April 25 2022 07: 23
    It is convenient to work with a swarm of barrage ammunition against advancing troops. And knock out PPO and hit important targets
    1. +1
      April 25 2022 08: 22
      PPO, this is in Russian air defense. Primitively pierced.
  9. E B
    +2
    April 25 2022 07: 41
    it’s necessary to do it, people write, it seems to me that we are struggling with the consequences, but we need to fight the cause of all the troubles, the cause of all troubles sits in Kyiv to him, Western leaders almost go to tea parties almost every day. so on today in bryansk the tank farm exploded i think it was drones today the americans arrived in kiev a clown special in bryansk made a terrorist act like a report to amers like i use your supplies effectively but a dagger on a clown will be more effective
  10. Such ammunition is needed by the Russian army as trophies, it will be possible to study and arrange the production of the Russian counterpart.
  11. -8
    April 25 2022 11: 21
    They are controlled by WiFi. Make a scanner and jammer. For every car. If you really want to make a mini rocket for a WiFi source.
  12. +3
    April 25 2022 11: 40
    This has long been expected. There was time to prepare. Well, how did you prepare to defend the troops, or is it now "their problems"?
  13. -1
    April 25 2022 12: 38
    And if such people begin to fly to Poland, according to the weapons supplied from the zapad?
    1. +1
      April 25 2022 13: 10
      Poland has already begun to supply its own kamikaze drones to Ukraine.
  14. +1
    April 25 2022 12: 54
    An American expert spoke here the other day. So she said that the Pentagon is sending two types of UAVs to Ukraine, about which nothing was previously known.
    What they decided to send there is interesting and then it lines up to the point, the appearance of the English SAS in Lviv
    1. 0
      April 29 2022 21: 22
      Loitering ammunition with different weight filling and range. There are 2 types there.
      And in Bryansk, a drone worked. He was carried out low above the water along the Desna. A jump over the target and a missile strike at a previously reconnoitred target, and then into the river. The battery is not enough to return in range. Air defense may not see it if it is not assumed. Or maybe the DRG dragged barge ammunition to Bryansk through the forests, they go there from the very border to Bryansk. But it is necessary to foresee the alleged strikes and carry out preventive anti-sabotage measures.
      Although it is also problematic, there are too many similar objects.
  15. -2
    April 25 2022 13: 05
    In the near future, fundamentally new, apparently very effective types of weapons will be massively used. What is known about this active army? What will be the asymmetric military-technical response?
  16. +2
    April 25 2022 15: 22
    Loitering ammunition is a new revolution in military affairs.
    Its role in the future is estimated higher than the creation of automatic weapons, and even by some is estimated higher than the appearance of self-propelled artillery.
    And yes, do not confuse loitering ammunition with UAVs.
    These are completely different types of guns and different concepts of application.

    At the moment there are no protection systems against light and medium loitering ammunition.
    1. +4
      April 25 2022 16: 27
      Quote: SovAr238A
      At the moment there are no protection systems against light and medium loitering ammunition.

      In addition to hats
  17. -1
    April 25 2022 16: 16
    Guide...please . supply Hall with 3kg of explosives to the rebels ...
  18. E B
    -2
    April 25 2022 16: 38
    you need to trophy a couple of drones and saboteurs hit the Polish base in Rzeszow, where NATO supplies weapons for the clown, we can’t openly hit it, it’s a war with NATO, and so few people hit the base
  19. 0
    April 25 2022 16: 43
    The Switchblade 600 has a range of 75 km.
  20. -3
    April 25 2022 18: 02
    Let's hope for our electronic warfare to jam their control channels
  21. +1
    April 25 2022 20: 36
    I can't comment on this news without obscene words. we are waiting for a huge number of videos from the opposite side showing how loitering ammunition hits our equipment and military personnel.
    Because, let's face it, there is absolutely nothing to shoot down these same ammunition. And our vaunted electronic warfare, which we hoped for so much, cannot cope with them.
    How I wish I was wrong.
    1. 0
      April 25 2022 22: 17
      It will be possible to interfere with the control, or at least give a signal about the work in the coverage area of ​​these systems. Warned-armed. We must capture this system, and our science must find a solution.
  22. 0
    April 25 2022 23: 29
    Quote: AlexeyEg
    It will be possible to interfere with the control, or at least give a signal about the work in the coverage area of ​​these systems. Warned-armed. We must capture this system, and our science must find a solution.

    maybe it's possible, maybe not, But even if someday a solution is found before then, our troops will suffer losses.
  23. +1
    April 26 2022 08: 59
    Quote: Tlauicol
    It would be necessary for the Turks to make a large order for UAVs, to interrupt, so to speak, the bet. And the Chinese too

    This one is for sure, otherwise the Ukrainians have drones, like a go * for a bathhouse ... every day they shoot down, but they all do not end .... what
    Have us the as with entim? All brains were thrown at the resurrection of transport aviation ???
    As a child, on every corner there were auto and aircraft modeling mugs ....
  24. -1
    April 26 2022 09: 04
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Loitering ammunition is a new revolution in military affairs.
    Its role in the future is estimated higher than the creation of automatic weapons, and even by some is estimated higher than the appearance of self-propelled artillery.
    And yes, do not confuse loitering ammunition with UAVs.
    These are completely different types of guns and different concepts of application.

    At the moment there are no protection systems against light and medium loitering ammunition.

    Tin of course ... causing damage to the enemy while out of sight and defeat is very cool ....
    Here, among the Ukrainians, I saw videos using "Stugna" - a vile thing ... for ambushes, that's it ...
    How are we with this?
    1. +1
      April 26 2022 11: 30
      And here fat managers from the Tula KBP say that Kornet has no analogues and is superior to Stugna and Jevelin under certain far-fetched conditions of use. And apparently, there was no task from the Moscow Region to make a remote control for the Kornet launcher. Apparently, they did not study the experience of 8 years of war in the Donbass. And the Ukrainians had nowhere to go, they had to invent a remote control for anti-tank systems in order to reduce losses among trained operators
  25. 0
    April 26 2022 12: 12
    Quote: Cympak
    And here fat managers from the Tula KBP say that Kornet has no analogues and is superior to Stugna and Jevelin under certain far-fetched conditions of use. And apparently, there was no task from the Moscow Region to make a remote control for the Kornet launcher. Apparently, they did not study the experience of 8 years of war in the Donbass. And the Ukrainians had nowhere to go, they had to invent a remote control for anti-tank systems in order to reduce losses among trained operators

    "Cornet" is cheap / cheerful, but for a remote control like "Stugna" we have no technology, Chubais stole everything .... soldier
  26. 0
    12 June 2022 13: 53
    Cry of Yaroslavna. Oh, these Americans, oh, they are supplying weapons to a country about which the president has long said that it is not a country and its territory should be returned to the Russian Federation.
    Where are the downed military transport aircraft with this stuff? Where are the attacks on airfields and warehouses in Poland? Where are the sunken/damaged transport ships in the Atlantic?
    The Germans did not become shy and did not almond, but sank ships with Lend Lease (although not all) during WW2.
    The Americans will get hit on the forehead once and immediately "gather the belongings" good
    We must believe in it.
  27. 0
    22 July 2022 21: 25
    And there are only 121 of them released (Wikipedia) Will they give them everything?